<div>Hi all,</div> <div> </div> <div>Just wondering....Can the ML6652 be used to replace / simplify the RONJA twister too?? It seems they're both doing the same job.</div> <div> </div> <div>Saad<BR></div> <div><BR><B><I>Kevin Bortis <wermut@gmail.com></I></B> wrote:</div> <BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">Hi Yaduvanshi,<BR><BR>Please consider the MAX3766 instead of the MAX3263, because the<BR>MAX3263 has reached end of life.<BR><BR>Regards<BR><BR>On 2/22/08, Pramod yaduvanshi <PKYADUVANSHI@GMAIL.COM>wrote:<BR>> I am working on a 100 mbps design based on ML6652 and LED driver is MAX3263<BR>> and Reciver uses philips SA5211 as transimpedance Amplifier .Will be<BR>> releasing first shematics in a day or two . I am planning to use VCSEL laser<BR>> to begin with .<BR>><BR>> Since ML6652 has autonegotiation feature all those will be no problem for<BR>> 100mbps design .
Only problem will be soldering ML6652 which will need<BR>> specail facility and might not be possible in a home lab .<BR>><BR>> PK Yaduvanshi<BR>><BR>><BR>> On 22/02/2008, ronja-request@lists.pointless.net<BR>> <RONJA-REQUEST@LISTS.POINTLESS.NET>wrote:<BR>> > Send Ronja mailing list submissions to<BR>> > ronja@lists.pointless.net<BR>> ><BR>> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<BR>> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja<BR>> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<BR>> > ronja-request@lists.pointless.net<BR>> ><BR>> > You can reach the person managing the list at<BR>> > ronja-owner@lists.pointless.net<BR>> ><BR>> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<BR>> > than "Re: Contents of Ronja digest..."<BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> > Today's Topics:<BR>> ><BR>> > 1. Re: What is
holding back 100 mbps (J.D. Bakker)<BR>> > 2. Re: What is holding back 100 mbps (J.D. Bakker)<BR>> > 3. Re: What is holding back 100 mbps (Pavel Krejci)<BR>> > 4. Re: What is holding back 100 mbps (Thomas Egenhofer)<BR>> > 5. Re: What is holding back 100 mbps (Gregory Maxwell)<BR>> > 6. Re: What is holding back 100 mbps (J.D. Bakker)<BR>> > 7. Re: What is holding back 100 mbps (Daniel Strnad)<BR>> > 8. Re: What is holding back 100 mbps (Gregory Maxwell)<BR>> > 9. Re: What is holding back 100 mbps (alex dinovitser)<BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>> ><BR>> > Message: 1<BR>> > Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 13:11:00 +0100<BR>> > From: "J.D. Bakker" <JDB@LARTMAKER.NL><BR>> > Subject: Re: [Ronja] What is holding back 100 mbps<BR>> > To: Twibright Ronja <RONJA@LISTS.POINTLESS.NET><BR>> > Message-ID:
<P0624052EC3E31A35C4DD@[130.161.115.44]><BR>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"<BR>> ><BR>> > >---- Deepak Mishra <XASK.LINUS@GMAIL.COM>schrieb:<BR>> > >> Hi people,<BR>> > >> 100 Mbps open source FSO, I think would revolutionize the wireless<BR>> link<BR>> > >> scene.<BR>> > >> I am really confused as to what is really holding back the development<BR>> of<BR>> > >> 100 Mbps RONJA, even when every thing is open source and free.<BR>> > ><BR>> > >The fact that I have to go to work? Anyone has resources to pay one<BR>> > >developer fulltime?<BR>> ><BR>> > What Clock said.<BR>> ><BR>> > I have a prototype PCB for a 100MHz RX/TX unit but simply have had no<BR>> > time to test/tweak/enhance it. LED fall time is the issue so far; I<BR>> > know what to do about it, but (payed) work takes precedence over
a<BR>> > GPLed project.<BR>> ><BR>> > JDB<BR>> > [already have a kit/prebuilt boards deal set up with my commercial<BR>> > partners in Taiwan]<BR>> > --<BR>> > LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files.<BR>> > http://www.lartmaker.nl/<BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> > ------------------------------<BR>> ><BR>> > Message: 2<BR>> > Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 13:19:11 +0100<BR>> > From: "J.D. Bakker" <JDB@LARTMAKER.NL><BR>> > Subject: Re: [Ronja] What is holding back 100 mbps<BR>> > To: Twibright Ronja <RONJA@LISTS.POINTLESS.NET><BR>> > Message-ID: <P06240530C3E31C4D42AC@[130.161.115.44]><BR>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"<BR>> ><BR>> > > > > I start this thread to exactly pin point the problems of a 100<BR>> > >Mbps RONJA.<BR>> > >> > Let us reach to a conclusion as to
what exactly must be modified.<BR>> > >> ><BR>> > >> > Let us start with the LED,<BR>> > >> > 1. To transmit at 100 mbps,we must find an LED which can switch on<BR>> and off<BR>> > >> > in 1 ns.<BR>> > >that's not neccessariliy true. if you wanna use 2-level encoded<BR>> > >signals like now ,you'd run into several problems.<BR>> > >first is you would have to change the encoding of the MLT3 signal to<BR>> > >2-level signal which is suited for optical transmission. in easiest<BR>> > >case manchester code.<BR>> > >which would result in a 0.5ns signal-time.<BR>> ><BR>> > Why does a 100Mbit Manchester encoded signal (with 10ns per bit) have<BR>> > a 0.5ns signal-time? Methinks you are off by an order of magnitude.<BR>> ><BR>> > JDB<BR>> > [not that you'd want to use Manchester if you can help it...]<BR>> > --<BR>> >
LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files.<BR>> > http://www.lartmaker.nl/<BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> > ------------------------------<BR>> ><BR>> > Message: 3<BR>> > Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:06:14 +0100<BR>> > From: Pavel Krejci <KREPA@SEZNAM.CZ><BR>> > Subject: Re: [Ronja] What is holding back 100 mbps<BR>> > To: Twibright Ronja <RONJA@LISTS.POINTLESS.NET><BR>> > Message-ID: <47BDBD96.7030505@seznam.cz><BR>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<BR>> ><BR>> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<BR>> > URL:<BR>> http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20080221/9cc0d683/attachment-0001.html<BR>> ><BR>> > ------------------------------<BR>> ><BR>> > Message: 4<BR>> > Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 21:59:35 +0100<BR>> > From: Thomas Egenhofer <ANTITRON@WEB.DE><BR>> > Subject: Re: [Ronja] What is holding
back 100 mbps<BR>> > To: ronja@lists.pointless.net<BR>> > Message-ID:<BR>> <1203627575.4502.8.camel@localhost.localdomain><BR>> > Content-Type: text/plain<BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> > > Hi all,<BR>> > > The discussion so far<BR>> > ><BR>> > > Saad Shakeel says<BR>> > > 2. Need equally fast photodiode and 74xx ics<BR>> > > 3. faster ne592 alternate as it only works at 10nS<BR>> > > 4. we might be able to use the bf908 since it supports upto 1 GHz.<BR>> > ><BR>> > > Thomas Egenhofer says<BR>> > > - Think over encoding technique<BR>> > > 1. 2 level encoding at 100 mbps could run into problems.<BR>> > > 2. 2 level encoding would require rise and fall times of .5ns !<BR>> > sorry.. looks like a zero shifted around in my brain. should be 5ns i<BR>> > think..<BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> > > 3. MLT3, coming from the LAN
card could be used (30ns), requiring in<BR>> > > rise and fall times of 15ns of LED<BR>> > > 4. It would require redesigning the transmitter<BR>> > i dont belive you can skipp this if used with 2level encoding^^ also<BR>> > keep in mind that signal-times of 10ns are quite tricky to handle. even<BR>> > fast logic can easily produce a delay of up to 15ns which can cause many<BR>> > problems with signal-timing in general.<BR>> ><BR>> > > 5. He already has a prototype MTL3 reciever at<BR>> > ><BR>> http://home.arcor.de/positiveelectron/files/MLT-3-receiver.png<BR>> > ><BR>> > > Meanwhile CD930 shows us he already has a 100 Mbps version, but alas the<BR>> in<BR>> > > the clutches of proprietary license<BR>> > > He has videos at<BR>> > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9h3hDm32kv4<BR>> > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcjaJhMHcNk<BR>> >
><BR>> > > and even better people like Jim Thompson are waiting to be convinced to<BR>> > > finance a 100 Mbps version.<BR>> > ><BR>> > ><BR>> > > What are we waiting for ?<BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> > ------------------------------<BR>> ><BR>> > Message: 5<BR>> > Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 16:06:35 -0500<BR>> > From: "Gregory Maxwell" <GMAXWELL@GMAIL.COM><BR>> > Subject: Re: [Ronja] What is holding back 100 mbps<BR>> > To: "Twibright Ronja" <RONJA@LISTS.POINTLESS.NET><BR>> > Message-ID:<BR>> ><BR>> <E692861C0802211306Q5764399FUC5BD1E92BB70C18B@MAIL.GMAIL.COM><BR>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8<BR>> ><BR>> > On Wed, Feb 20, 2008 at 4:20 PM, Thomas Egenhofer <ANTITRON@WEB.DE>wrote:<BR>> > [snip]<BR>> > > first is you would have to change the encoding of the MLT3 signal to<BR>> 2-level
signal which is suited for optical transmission. in easiest case<BR>> manchester code.<BR>> ><BR>> > This makes no sense to me. Going to a higher encoding level should<BR>> > trade bandpass for SNR (and linearity) requirements.<BR>> ><BR>> > It might not be a huge win given the channel characteristics, but<BR>> > saying that it would need several orders of magnitude more bandwidth<BR>> > (which is what saying .5ns rise time is saying)<BR>> ><BR>> > With a proper EQ (which would be easy with an all digital<BR>> > modulator/demodulator) higher level encoding should work well across<BR>> > the optical channel.<BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> > ------------------------------<BR>> ><BR>> > Message: 6<BR>> > Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 22:32:36 +0100<BR>> > From: "J.D. Bakker" <JDB@LARTMAKER.NL><BR>> > Subject: Re: [Ronja] What is holding back 100 mbps<BR>> > To:
Twibright Ronja <RONJA@LISTS.POINTLESS.NET><BR>> > Message-ID: <P06240535C3E39DC69B50@[130.161.115.44]><BR>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"<BR>> ><BR>> > >With a proper EQ (which would be easy with an all digital<BR>> > >modulator/demodulator)<BR>> ><BR>> > In dedicated silicon or a larger FPGA, yes. In gates or discrete<BR>> > hardware, not so much.<BR>> ><BR>> > JDB<BR>> > [ran into this when designing a 100Mbps synchronizer, which is quite<BR>> > a bit easier than an EQ. For ASICs this is a solved problem, but I<BR>> > wanted/needed to do it in commercially available gates]<BR>> > --<BR>> > LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files.<BR>> > http://www.lartmaker.nl/<BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> > ------------------------------<BR>> ><BR>> > Message: 7<BR>> > Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008
22:35:39 +0100<BR>> > From: "Daniel Strnad" <DANIEL.STRNAD@TISCALI.CZ><BR>> > Subject: Re: [Ronja] What is holding back 100 mbps<BR>> > To: "Twibright Ronja" <RONJA@LISTS.POINTLESS.NET><BR>> > Message-ID: <OP.T6V8XPT2N6QJLS@DAMAN><BR>> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=utf-8<BR>> ><BR>> > Hi all,<BR>> > I am not very interrested in topic for some time, but I have few fast,<BR>> > suitable for 100Mbps, photodiodes. I planned some design with it, but now<BR>> > I offer it for experiments to you. It's FCI-HR008<BR>> > (http://www.datasheetarchive.com/pdf/1382205.pdf). It has<BR>> capacitance<BR>> > 0.8pF at 5V! Price: 1 000CZK (40?) per piece.<BR>> ><BR>> > DS<BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> > ------------------------------<BR>> ><BR>> > Message: 8<BR>> > Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 16:36:08 -0500<BR>> > From: "Gregory
Maxwell" <GMAXWELL@GMAIL.COM><BR>> > Subject: Re: [Ronja] What is holding back 100 mbps<BR>> > To: "Twibright Ronja" <RONJA@LISTS.POINTLESS.NET><BR>> > Message-ID:<BR>> ><BR>> <E692861C0802211336N22170588S79DEB3DEF160857F@MAIL.GMAIL.COM><BR>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8<BR>> ><BR>> > On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 4:32 PM, J.D. Bakker <JDB@LARTMAKER.NL>wrote:<BR>> > > >With a proper EQ (which would be easy with an all digital<BR>> > > >modulator/demodulator)<BR>> > ><BR>> > > In dedicated silicon or a larger FPGA, yes. In gates or discrete<BR>> > > hardware, not so much.<BR>> ><BR>> > Yes. mac->fpga->adc/dac->current amp. Solved. But making that<BR>> > inexpensive? ... :-/<BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> > ------------------------------<BR>> ><BR>> > Message: 9<BR>> > Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 22:59:07 -0800
(PST)<BR>> > From: alex dinovitser <ADINOV@YAHOO.COM><BR>> > Subject: Re: [Ronja] What is holding back 100 mbps<BR>> > To: Twibright Ronja <RONJA@LISTS.POINTLESS.NET><BR>> > Message-ID: <293348.55216.qm@web32708.mail.mud.yahoo.com><BR>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1<BR>> ><BR>> > This is surely analogous to the high speed fiber communications such as<BR>> DWDM.<BR>> > The current standard here is 10Gb/s per channel. That corresponds to an<BR>> > electrical bandwidth of at least 5GHz. These optical devices are specified<BR>> to<BR>> > 10GHz.<BR>> ><BR>> > The diodes required for this application need to have a very low<BR>> capacitance.<BR>> > This capacitance (almost) solely determines the speed of the resulting<BR>> > transimpedance amplifier.<BR>> > A diode's capacitance depends on its area. It also depends on the applied<BR>> > reverse voltage.
However, it would be wrong to use and avalanche diode in<BR>> > avalanche mode! This diode detects individual photons, and each event has<BR>> a<BR>> > 'quench time' (it works very similar in principle to a geiger-muller tube)<BR>> > which means they will saturate with very low ambient light levels!<BR>> ><BR>> > Avalanche type diodes can be suitable if operated at lower voltage because<BR>> of<BR>> > their small area and a wide pIn channel that results in lower capacitance.<BR>> They<BR>> > are very expensive however.<BR>> ><BR>> > The small area for a suitably fast RONJA diode might requires some thought<BR>> of<BR>> > the optical system.<BR>> ><BR>> > I still think the best detector theoretically would be a pyroelectric<BR>> device.<BR>> > No suitable affortable devices so far:-(<BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> > AD<BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> > --- Pavel Krejci
<KREPA@SEZNAM.CZ>wrote:<BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> > ---------------------------------<BR>> > Can you tell us, please, at least which chipset from MAXIM it is?<BR>> > Thanks<BR>> ><BR>> > PK<BR>> ><BR>> > CD930 napsal(a): Sorry...no, maybe later. But...TX,RXis MAXIM<BR>> chipset,<BR>> > mediaconvertor MARVELL 1108 (beforeused Micro-Linear), laser is<BR>> 870nm/10mW and<BR>> > photodiode is PDB-C102.<BR>> > Tested (tx lens 11cm, rx fresnellens 20cm) on 2500m. RSSI go to AD and<BR>> Atmel<BR>> > CPU (LCD and RS232c).<BR>> > M.<BR>> ><BR>> > -----Original Message -----<BR>> > From: Deepak Mishra<BR>> > To: Twibright Ronja<BR>> > Sent:Thursday, February 21, 2008 9:48 AM<BR>> > Subject:Re: [Ronja] What is holding back 100 mbps<BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> > Hi CD930,<BR>> > Sure dont release the PCB, but you could give us suggestions
onimproving<BR>> the<BR>> > RONJA design to 100 Mbps.<BR>> > You could point us in the right direction, like the modulationtechnique to<BR>> use,<BR>> > coding technique, or LED used ,or lasers, otherpitfalls you encountered ?<BR>> > Would you like to support a "free" cause ?<BR>> ><BR>> > Regards,<BR>> > Deepak<BR>> ><BR>> > On 21/02/2008, CD930 <CD930@CENTRUM.CZ>wrote: HiVladimir.<BR>> > Sorry, this development was for one firm from our city.<BR>> > I must not publish circuit PCB :(<BR>> > But....some ideas i am here publish along the years.<BR>> ><BR>> > In future looking on 1Gpbs..... avalanche photodiode with 200V dc :)))<BR>> > roung again toy gadget.<BR>> ><BR>> > Martin<BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> > ----- Original Message -----<BR>> > From: "Vladimir Obradovic" <LEPIAF@BGWIRELESS.NET><BR>> >
To:<BR>> "ronja-request@lists.pointless.net"<RONJA@LISTS.POINTLESS.NET><BR>> > Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 1:35 AM<BR>> > Subject: Re: [Ronja] What is holding back 100 mbps<BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> > ><BR>> ><BR>> > >> From: "CD930" <CD930@CENTRUM.CZ><BR>> > >> I tested on MAXIM and MARVELL chip-set....<BR>> > >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9h3hDm32kv4<BR>> > >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcjaJhMHcNk<BR>> > ><BR>> > >> TX can by IR-LED, but with short peak to 1ns......<BR>> > >> http://www.roithner-laser.com/LED_MID_IR.htm or<BR>> > >> http://www.roithner-laser.com/LED_HP_single_chip.html<BR>> > ><BR>> > >> I am after tested go to laser diode, it is simply.<BR>> > >> Martin<BR>> > ><BR>> > > Nice demo Martin, is there some chance that documentation, tips or<BR>> > > howtos
be available about this project some time in future? Anyplans<BR>> > > for some kind of open hardware licence like Ronja is, or it will be<BR>> > > yet another of those projects that inherit Ronja's ideas/hw, showsome<BR>> > > good<BR>> > > stuff and then go into some factory for big bucks only :) ? Nowonder<BR>> > > why Cl always gets upset when ppl start asking about 100mbps orxtra<BR>> > > range versions :)<BR>> > ><BR>> > > cya<BR>> > > LePiaf<BR>> > ><BR>> > ><BR>> > > --<BR>> > > Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com<BR>> > > Ronja@lists.pointless.net<BR>> > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja<BR>> > ><BR>> > ><BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> > --<BR>> > Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com<BR>> > Ronja@lists.pointless.net<BR>> >
http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja<BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> > ---------------------------------<BR>> > --<BR>> > Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com<BR>> > Ronja@lists.pointless.net<BR>> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja<BR>> > > --<BR>> > > Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com<BR>> > > Ronja@lists.pointless.net<BR>> > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja<BR>> > ><BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> ____________________________________________________________________________________<BR>> > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.<BR>> > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs<BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> > ------------------------------<BR>> ><BR>> > _______________________________________________<BR>> > Ronja mailing
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