<div>I am working on a 100 mbps design based on ML6652 and LED driver is MAX3263 and Reciver uses philips SA5211 as transimpedance Amplifier .Will be releasing first shematics in a day or two . I am planning to use VCSEL laser to begin with . </div>
<div> </div>
<div>Since ML6652 has autonegotiation feature all those will be no problem for 100mbps design . Only problem will be soldering ML6652 which will need specail facility and might not be possible in a home lab .</div>
<div> </div>
<div>PK Yaduvanshi <br><br> </div>
<div><span class="gmail_quote">On 22/02/2008, <b class="gmail_sendername"><a href="mailto:ronja-request@lists.pointless.net">ronja-request@lists.pointless.net</a></b> <<a href="mailto:ronja-request@lists.pointless.net">ronja-request@lists.pointless.net</a>> wrote:</span>
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<br>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>than "Re: Contents of Ronja digest..."<br><br><br>Today's Topics:<br><br> 1. Re: What is holding back 100 mbps (J.D. Bakker)<br> 2. Re: What is holding back 100 mbps (J.D. Bakker)<br>
3. Re: What is holding back 100 mbps (Pavel Krejci)<br> 4. Re: What is holding back 100 mbps (Thomas Egenhofer)<br> 5. Re: What is holding back 100 mbps (Gregory Maxwell)<br> 6. Re: What is holding back 100 mbps (J.D. Bakker)<br>
7. Re: What is holding back 100 mbps (Daniel Strnad)<br> 8. Re: What is holding back 100 mbps (Gregory Maxwell)<br> 9. Re: What is holding back 100 mbps (alex dinovitser)<br><br><br>----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>Message: 1<br>Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 13:11:00 +0100<br>From: "J.D. Bakker" <<a href="mailto:jdb@lartmaker.nl">jdb@lartmaker.nl</a>><br>Subject: Re: [Ronja] What is holding back 100 mbps<br>To: Twibright Ronja <<a href="mailto:ronja@lists.pointless.net">ronja@lists.pointless.net</a>><br>
Message-ID: <p0624052ec3e31a35c4dd@[<a href="http://130.161.115.44">130.161.115.44</a>]><br>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"<br><br>>---- Deepak Mishra <<a href="mailto:xask.linus@gmail.com">xask.linus@gmail.com</a>> schrieb:<br>
>> Hi people,<br>>> 100 Mbps open source FSO, I think would revolutionize the wireless link<br>>> scene.<br>>> I am really confused as to what is really holding back the development of<br>>> 100 Mbps RONJA, even when every thing is open source and free.<br>
><br>>The fact that I have to go to work? Anyone has resources to pay one<br>>developer fulltime?<br><br>What Clock said.<br><br>I have a prototype PCB for a 100MHz RX/TX unit but simply have had no<br>time to test/tweak/enhance it. LED fall time is the issue so far; I<br>
know what to do about it, but (payed) work takes precedence over a<br>GPLed project.<br><br>JDB<br>[already have a kit/prebuilt boards deal set up with my commercial<br>partners in Taiwan]<br>--<br>LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files.<br>
<a href="http://www.lartmaker.nl/">http://www.lartmaker.nl/</a><br><br><br><br>------------------------------<br><br>Message: 2<br>Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 13:19:11 +0100<br>From: "J.D. Bakker" <<a href="mailto:jdb@lartmaker.nl">jdb@lartmaker.nl</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Ronja] What is holding back 100 mbps<br>To: Twibright Ronja <<a href="mailto:ronja@lists.pointless.net">ronja@lists.pointless.net</a>><br>Message-ID: <p06240530c3e31c4d42ac@[<a href="http://130.161.115.44">130.161.115.44</a>]><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"<br><br>> > > I start this thread to exactly pin point the problems of a 100<br>>Mbps RONJA.<br>>> > Let us reach to a conclusion as to what exactly must be modified.<br>
>> ><br>>> > Let us start with the LED,<br>>> > 1. To transmit at 100 mbps,we must find an LED which can switch on and off<br>>> > in 1 ns.<br>>that's not neccessariliy true. if you wanna use 2-level encoded<br>
>signals like now ,you'd run into several problems.<br>>first is you would have to change the encoding of the MLT3 signal to<br>>2-level signal which is suited for optical transmission. in easiest<br>>case manchester code.<br>
>which would result in a 0.5ns signal-time.<br><br>Why does a 100Mbit Manchester encoded signal (with 10ns per bit) have<br>a 0.5ns signal-time? Methinks you are off by an order of magnitude.<br><br>JDB<br>[not that you'd want to use Manchester if you can help it...]<br>
--<br>LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files.<br><a href="http://www.lartmaker.nl/">http://www.lartmaker.nl/</a><br><br><br><br>------------------------------<br><br>Message: 3<br>Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:06:14 +0100<br>
From: Pavel Krejci <<a href="mailto:krepa@seznam.cz">krepa@seznam.cz</a>><br>Subject: Re: [Ronja] What is holding back 100 mbps<br>To: Twibright Ronja <<a href="mailto:ronja@lists.pointless.net">ronja@lists.pointless.net</a>><br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:47BDBD96.7030505@seznam.cz">47BDBD96.7030505@seznam.cz</a>><br>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br><br>An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>URL: <a href="http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20080221/9cc0d683/attachment-0001.html">http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20080221/9cc0d683/attachment-0001.html</a><br>
<br>------------------------------<br><br>Message: 4<br>Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 21:59:35 +0100<br>From: Thomas Egenhofer <<a href="mailto:antitron@web.de">antitron@web.de</a>><br>Subject: Re: [Ronja] What is holding back 100 mbps<br>
To: <a href="mailto:ronja@lists.pointless.net">ronja@lists.pointless.net</a><br>Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:1203627575.4502.8.camel@localhost.localdomain">1203627575.4502.8.camel@localhost.localdomain</a>><br>Content-Type: text/plain<br>
<br><br>> Hi all,<br>> The discussion so far<br>><br>> Saad Shakeel says<br>> 2. Need equally fast photodiode and 74xx ics<br>> 3. faster ne592 alternate as it only works at 10nS<br>> 4. we might be able to use the bf908 since it supports upto 1 GHz.<br>
><br>> Thomas Egenhofer says<br>> - Think over encoding technique<br>> 1. 2 level encoding at 100 mbps could run into problems.<br>> 2. 2 level encoding would require rise and fall times of .5ns !<br>
sorry.. looks like a zero shifted around in my brain. should be 5ns i<br>think..<br><br><br>> 3. MLT3, coming from the LAN card could be used (30ns), requiring in<br>> rise and fall times of 15ns of LED<br>> 4. It would require redesigning the transmitter<br>
i dont belive you can skipp this if used with 2level encoding^^ also<br>keep in mind that signal-times of 10ns are quite tricky to handle. even<br>fast logic can easily produce a delay of up to 15ns which can cause many<br>
problems with signal-timing in general.<br><br>> 5. He already has a prototype MTL3 reciever at<br>> <a href="http://home.arcor.de/positiveelectron/files/MLT-3-receiver.png">http://home.arcor.de/positiveelectron/files/MLT-3-receiver.png</a><br>
><br>> Meanwhile CD930 shows us he already has a 100 Mbps version, but alas the in<br>> the clutches of proprietary license<br>> He has videos at<br>> <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9h3hDm32kv4">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9h3hDm32kv4</a><br>
> <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcjaJhMHcNk">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcjaJhMHcNk</a><br>><br>> and even better people like Jim Thompson are waiting to be convinced to<br>> finance a 100 Mbps version.<br>
><br>><br>> What are we waiting for ?<br><br><br><br><br><br>------------------------------<br><br>Message: 5<br>Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 16:06:35 -0500<br>From: "Gregory Maxwell" <<a href="mailto:gmaxwell@gmail.com">gmaxwell@gmail.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Ronja] What is holding back 100 mbps<br>To: "Twibright Ronja" <<a href="mailto:ronja@lists.pointless.net">ronja@lists.pointless.net</a>><br>Message-ID:<br> <<a href="mailto:e692861c0802211306q5764399fuc5bd1e92bb70c18b@mail.gmail.com">e692861c0802211306q5764399fuc5bd1e92bb70c18b@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8<br><br>On Wed, Feb 20, 2008 at 4:20 PM, Thomas Egenhofer <<a href="mailto:antitron@web.de">antitron@web.de</a>> wrote:<br>[snip]<br>> first is you would have to change the encoding of the MLT3 signal to 2-level signal which is suited for optical transmission. in easiest case manchester code.<br>
<br>This makes no sense to me. Going to a higher encoding level should<br>trade bandpass for SNR (and linearity) requirements.<br><br>It might not be a huge win given the channel characteristics, but<br>saying that it would need several orders of magnitude more bandwidth<br>
(which is what saying .5ns rise time is saying)<br><br>With a proper EQ (which would be easy with an all digital<br>modulator/demodulator) higher level encoding should work well across<br>the optical channel.<br><br><br><br>
------------------------------<br><br>Message: 6<br>Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 22:32:36 +0100<br>From: "J.D. Bakker" <<a href="mailto:jdb@lartmaker.nl">jdb@lartmaker.nl</a>><br>Subject: Re: [Ronja] What is holding back 100 mbps<br>
To: Twibright Ronja <<a href="mailto:ronja@lists.pointless.net">ronja@lists.pointless.net</a>><br>Message-ID: <p06240535c3e39dc69b50@[<a href="http://130.161.115.44">130.161.115.44</a>]><br>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"<br>
<br>>With a proper EQ (which would be easy with an all digital<br>>modulator/demodulator)<br><br>In dedicated silicon or a larger FPGA, yes. In gates or discrete<br>hardware, not so much.<br><br>JDB<br>[ran into this when designing a 100Mbps synchronizer, which is quite<br>
a bit easier than an EQ. For ASICs this is a solved problem, but I<br>wanted/needed to do it in commercially available gates]<br>--<br>LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files.<br><a href="http://www.lartmaker.nl/">http://www.lartmaker.nl/</a><br>
<br><br><br>------------------------------<br><br>Message: 7<br>Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 22:35:39 +0100<br>From: "Daniel Strnad" <<a href="mailto:daniel.strnad@tiscali.cz">daniel.strnad@tiscali.cz</a>><br>Subject: Re: [Ronja] What is holding back 100 mbps<br>
To: "Twibright Ronja" <<a href="mailto:ronja@lists.pointless.net">ronja@lists.pointless.net</a>><br>Message-ID: <op.t6v8xpt2n6qjls@daman><br>Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=utf-8<br>
<br>Hi all,<br>I am not very interrested in topic for some time, but I have few fast,<br>suitable for 100Mbps, photodiodes. I planned some design with it, but now<br>I offer it for experiments to you. It's FCI-HR008<br>
(<a href="http://www.datasheetarchive.com/pdf/1382205.pdf">http://www.datasheetarchive.com/pdf/1382205.pdf</a>). It has capacitance<br>0.8pF at 5V! Price: 1 000CZK (40?) per piece.<br><br>DS<br><br><br><br>------------------------------<br>
<br>Message: 8<br>Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 16:36:08 -0500<br>From: "Gregory Maxwell" <<a href="mailto:gmaxwell@gmail.com">gmaxwell@gmail.com</a>><br>Subject: Re: [Ronja] What is holding back 100 mbps<br>To: "Twibright Ronja" <<a href="mailto:ronja@lists.pointless.net">ronja@lists.pointless.net</a>><br>
Message-ID:<br> <<a href="mailto:e692861c0802211336n22170588s79deb3def160857f@mail.gmail.com">e692861c0802211336n22170588s79deb3def160857f@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8<br><br>
On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 4:32 PM, J.D. Bakker <<a href="mailto:jdb@lartmaker.nl">jdb@lartmaker.nl</a>> wrote:<br>> >With a proper EQ (which would be easy with an all digital<br>> >modulator/demodulator)<br>
><br>> In dedicated silicon or a larger FPGA, yes. In gates or discrete<br>> hardware, not so much.<br><br>Yes. mac->fpga->adc/dac->current amp. Solved. But making that<br>inexpensive? ... :-/<br><br>
<br><br>------------------------------<br><br>Message: 9<br>Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 22:59:07 -0800 (PST)<br>From: alex dinovitser <<a href="mailto:adinov@yahoo.com">adinov@yahoo.com</a>><br>Subject: Re: [Ronja] What is holding back 100 mbps<br>
To: Twibright Ronja <<a href="mailto:ronja@lists.pointless.net">ronja@lists.pointless.net</a>><br>Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:293348.55216.qm@web32708.mail.mud.yahoo.com">293348.55216.qm@web32708.mail.mud.yahoo.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1<br><br>This is surely analogous to the high speed fiber communications such as DWDM.<br>The current standard here is 10Gb/s per channel. That corresponds to an<br>electrical bandwidth of at least 5GHz. These optical devices are specified to<br>
10GHz.<br><br>The diodes required for this application need to have a very low capacitance.<br>This capacitance (almost) solely determines the speed of the resulting<br>transimpedance amplifier.<br>A diode's capacitance depends on its area. It also depends on the applied<br>
reverse voltage. However, it would be wrong to use and avalanche diode in<br>avalanche mode! This diode detects individual photons, and each event has a<br>'quench time' (it works very similar in principle to a geiger-muller tube)<br>
which means they will saturate with very low ambient light levels!<br><br>Avalanche type diodes can be suitable if operated at lower voltage because of<br>their small area and a wide pIn channel that results in lower capacitance. They<br>
are very expensive however.<br><br>The small area for a suitably fast RONJA diode might requires some thought of<br>the optical system.<br><br>I still think the best detector theoretically would be a pyroelectric device.<br>
No suitable affortable devices so far:-(<br><br><br>AD<br><br><br>--- Pavel Krejci <<a href="mailto:krepa@seznam.cz">krepa@seznam.cz</a>> wrote:<br><br><br>---------------------------------<br>Can you tell us, please, at least which chipset from MAXIM it is?<br>
Thanks<br><br>PK<br><br>CD930 napsal(a): Sorry...no, maybe later. But...TX,RXis MAXIM chipset,<br>mediaconvertor MARVELL 1108 (beforeused Micro-Linear), laser is 870nm/10mW and<br>photodiode is PDB-C102.<br>Tested (tx lens 11cm, rx fresnellens 20cm) on 2500m. RSSI go to AD and Atmel<br>
CPU (LCD and RS232c).<br>M.<br><br> -----Original Message -----<br> From: Deepak Mishra<br> To: Twibright Ronja<br> Sent:Thursday, February 21, 2008 9:48 AM<br> Subject:Re: [Ronja] What is holding back 100 mbps<br>
<br><br>Hi CD930,<br>Sure dont release the PCB, but you could give us suggestions onimproving the<br>RONJA design to 100 Mbps.<br>You could point us in the right direction, like the modulationtechnique to use,<br>coding technique, or LED used ,or lasers, otherpitfalls you encountered ?<br>
Would you like to support a "free" cause ?<br><br>Regards,<br>Deepak<br><br> On 21/02/2008, CD930 <<a href="mailto:cd930@centrum.cz">cd930@centrum.cz</a>> wrote: HiVladimir.<br>Sorry, this development was for one firm from our city.<br>
I must not publish circuit PCB :(<br>But....some ideas i am here publish along the years.<br><br>In future looking on 1Gpbs..... avalanche photodiode with 200V dc :)))<br>roung again toy gadget.<br><br>Martin<br><br><br>
<br><br><br>----- Original Message -----<br>From: "Vladimir Obradovic" <<a href="mailto:lepiaf@bgwireless.net">lepiaf@bgwireless.net</a>><br>To: "<a href="mailto:ronja-request@lists.pointless.net">ronja-request@lists.pointless.net</a>"<<a href="mailto:ronja@lists.pointless.net">ronja@lists.pointless.net</a>><br>
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 1:35 AM<br>Subject: Re: [Ronja] What is holding back 100 mbps<br><br><br>><br><br>>> From: "CD930" <<a href="mailto:cd930@centrum.cz">cd930@centrum.cz</a>><br>>> I tested on MAXIM and MARVELL chip-set....<br>
>> <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9h3hDm32kv4">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9h3hDm32kv4</a><br>>> <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcjaJhMHcNk">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcjaJhMHcNk</a><br>
><br>>> TX can by IR-LED, but with short peak to 1ns......<br>>> <a href="http://www.roithner-laser.com/LED_MID_IR.htm">http://www.roithner-laser.com/LED_MID_IR.htm</a> or<br>>> <a href="http://www.roithner-laser.com/LED_HP_single_chip.html">http://www.roithner-laser.com/LED_HP_single_chip.html</a><br>
><br>>> I am after tested go to laser diode, it is simply.<br>>> Martin<br>><br>> Nice demo Martin, is there some chance that documentation, tips or<br>> howtos be available about this project some time in future? Anyplans<br>
> for some kind of open hardware licence like Ronja is, or it will be<br>> yet another of those projects that inherit Ronja's ideas/hw, showsome<br>> good<br>> stuff and then go into some factory for big bucks only :) ? Nowonder<br>
> why Cl always gets upset when ppl start asking about 100mbps orxtra<br>> range versions :)<br>><br>> cya<br>> LePiaf<br>><br>><br>> --<br>> Twibright Ronja mailing list <a href="http://ronja.twibright.com">http://ronja.twibright.com</a><br>
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