From mohammadaj at gmail.com Mon Jul 4 14:58:21 2011 From: mohammadaj at gmail.com (mohammad al-jamal) Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 13:58:21 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Ronja] Invitation to connect on LinkedIn Message-ID: <1231946084.8974025.1309787901215.JavaMail.app@ela4-bed37.prod> LinkedIn ------------ GPL, I'd like to add you to my professional network on LinkedIn. - mohammad mohammad al-jamal System administrator at Zone Technologies Palestinian Territory Confirm that you know mohammad al-jamal https://www.linkedin.com/e/-u8ibi1-gpphwcnr-k/isd/3423193706/BHHCO4bo/ -- (c) 2011, LinkedIn Corporation -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mohammadaj at gmail.com Mon Jul 4 14:58:51 2011 From: mohammadaj at gmail.com (mohammad al-jamal) Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 13:58:51 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Ronja] Invitation to connect on LinkedIn Message-ID: <118586539.8981446.1309787931942.JavaMail.app@ela4-bed33.prod> LinkedIn ------------ GPL, I'd like to add you to my professional network on LinkedIn. - mohammad mohammad al-jamal System administrator at Zone Technologies Palestinian Territory Confirm that you know mohammad al-jamal https://www.linkedin.com/e/-u8ibi1-gpphx0de-53/isd/3423193706/BHHCO4bo/ -- (c) 2011, LinkedIn Corporation -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From twibright at hispeed.ch Wed Jul 13 19:46:02 2011 From: twibright at hispeed.ch (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 20:46:02 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Ronja for unidirectional audio link In-Reply-To: <4E107783.5080705@skypro.be> References: <4E107783.5080705@skypro.be> Message-ID: <4E1DE7EA.50002@hispeed.ch> Am 03.07.2011 16:06, schrieb Kristoff Bonne: > Hi, > > I do not see much traffic on this list, so I hope it still active. > > > We had a meeting this morning on the board of our radio-amateur club in > Ostend (Belgium) talking about some interesting things to do. > > One of the ideas that came up was to activate a ham-repeater on 6 meter > where we already have parts of the equipement for, but never got really > installed. Now, we do not have cavities for 6 meter, but we do have two > seperate sites where we already have ham-equipement; so what could be > done is place the receiver at one site and the transmittor at the second > site and set up a radio-link between these two sites. > > However, because of issues of radio-interference with other equipement > on these sites (both very close to the seaport of Ostend), the idea > popped up to use a ronja link between these two sites (they are 1.2 km > appart). > > In addition to the practicle aspect, this would also interesting for us > as a very interesting homebrew project to do with some people of the > radio-club who are interested in electronics or mechanics. > > > Looking at the website, I see we could create a 10 Mbps full-duplex link. > > However, we do not really need this. We would be happy with a > unidirectional syncronous link at -say- 512 kbps. This would give us 3 > audio-links at 128 Kbps each (PCM, 4 Khz audio, 16bit/sample) plus place > for some additional data. > > So, my questions: > - is it possible to use a ronja as a unidirectional device? > Yes, I even tried it with RTP and it worked. > - is it possible to use a ronja for syncronous communication? > - is it possible to run a ronja-link at lower speeds (say 512 Kbps, 1 Mbps). > I think this would be very difficult one would have to completely redesign. > - Another option would be to run the link at 10 Mbps, but apply a 20/1 > FEC, which would (I guess) greatly increase the robustness of the link. > (Ostend is on the sea, so a lot of moisture in the air). > I think this would be difficult too. There are also non-Ronja modulated light analog audio comms that go up to 250km or so http://www.modulatedlight.org/ Karel > > Any comments or ideas? > > > > > BTW. By change, I will be in Praha next week (just one of the x million > tourists overthere :-) ). > Are there any ronja nodes in Praghe that can be "visited". I would be > interested in actually seeing it. > > Is there any ronja-related ham activity in Prague? > Is there any hackerspace in Praha working with this? > > > > Thank you in advance, > Kristoff - ON1ARF > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > From kristoff at skypro.be Sun Jul 17 12:48:03 2011 From: kristoff at skypro.be (Kristoff Bonne) Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2011 13:48:03 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Ronja for unidirectional audio link In-Reply-To: <4E107783.5080705@skypro.be> References: <4E107783.5080705@skypro.be> Message-ID: <4E22CBF3.8040605@skypro.be> Hallo Karel, I'm sorry for the late reply. For some reason, I did not receive your reply via the list. Even more, I've noticed that my message did not make it in the archive on the lists website so perhaps there was a tempory issue with the listserver. >>/ So, my questions: />>/ - is it possible to use a ronja as a unidirectional device? // /> Yes, I even tried it with RTP and it worked. Cleaver idea! :-) >>/ - Another option would be to run the link at 10 Mbps, but apply a 20/1 />>/ FEC, which would (I guess) greatly increase the robustness of the link. />>/ (Ostend is on the sea, so a lot of moisture in the air). // /> I think this would be difficult too. Using your idea of unidirectional RTP streaming, perhaps we can implement this on application level: emit every voice-frame 10 times hoping that at least 1 of them will get throu :-)), or even split it into multiple smaller subframes (smaller frames, less bits, less chance it will get corrupted). Question: what does the NIC do when it receives a frame from the receiver with an error? Will it drop it or will it let it pass? Does it interprete the ethernet CRC frame? BTW. Our original plan is to use a unidirectional link (transmitor is a highrise building, receiver is the Ostend lighthouse). However, some people have asked us to investigate the possiblity to set up a bidirectional link anyway. The problem is that a lighthouse, ... well .... emits light. This would mean that the ronja on the other site would be looking at a IR ronja-signal, just below a lighthouse beaming out a strong white light (in the visible spectrum). Does anybody have any idea how well ronja is able to deal with this? Can something be done for this? (some kind of filter????). Cheerio! Kr. Bonne. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From twibright at hispeed.ch Sun Jul 17 18:26:26 2011 From: twibright at hispeed.ch (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2011 19:26:26 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Ronja for unidirectional audio link In-Reply-To: <4E22CBF3.8040605@skypro.be> Message-ID: <20110717192626.K20H8.13158.root@viefep11.chello.at> ---- Kristoff Bonne schrieb: > Hallo Karel, > > > I'm sorry for the late reply. > > For some reason, I did not receive your reply via the list. > Even more, I've noticed that my message did not make it in the archive > on the lists website so perhaps there was a tempory issue with the > listserver. > > >>/ So, my questions: > />>/ - is it possible to use a ronja as a unidirectional device? > // > /> Yes, I even tried it with RTP and it worked. > > Cleaver idea! :-) > > >>/ - Another option would be to run the link at 10 Mbps, but apply a 20/1 > />>/ FEC, which would (I guess) greatly increase the robustness of the link. > />>/ (Ostend is on the sea, so a lot of moisture in the air). > // > /> I think this would be difficult too. > > > Using your idea of unidirectional RTP streaming, perhaps we can > implement this on application level: emit every voice-frame 10 times > hoping that at least 1 of them will get throu :-)), or even split it > into multiple smaller subframes (smaller frames, less bits, less chance > it will get corrupted). Yes that would increase the range > > > Question: what does the NIC do when it receives a frame from the > receiver with an error? Will it drop it or will it let it pass? > Does it interprete the ethernet CRC frame? Normally drop it > > > BTW. > Our original plan is to use a unidirectional link (transmitor is a > highrise building, receiver is the Ostend lighthouse). > However, some people have asked us to investigate the possiblity to set > up a bidirectional link anyway. > > The problem is that a lighthouse, ... well .... emits light. > This would mean that the ronja on the other site would be looking at a > IR ronja-signal, just below a lighthouse beaming out a strong white > light (in the visible spectrum). How many meters between lighthouse source and ronja? Karel > > Does anybody have any idea how well ronja is able to deal with this? > Can something be done for this? (some kind of filter????). > > > Cheerio! > Kr. Bonne. > From kristoff at skypro.be Sun Jul 17 21:56:42 2011 From: kristoff at skypro.be (Kristoff Bonne) Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2011 22:56:42 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Ronja for unidirectional audio link In-Reply-To: <20110717192626.K20H8.13158.root@viefep11.chello.at> References: <20110717192626.K20H8.13158.root@viefep11.chello.at> Message-ID: <4E234C8A.3080306@skypro.be> Hallo Karel, Op 17-07-11 19:26, Karel Kulhavy schreef: >> Question: what does the NIC do when it receives a frame from the >> receiver with an error? Will it drop it or will it let it pass? >> Does it interprete the ethernet CRC frame? > Normally drop it OK, there goes my idea to use the FEC information to try to CORRECT corrupted information instead of just detecting errors. :-( > How many meters between lighthouse source and ronja? I haven't tought of that. The lighthouse itself is 57.5 meter, so , if we would place the ronja somewhere at the bottom of the tower, it would be some maximum some 50 meter away! http://www.nielsvanrooij.com/index.php/2009/01/vuurtoren-belgie-oostende/ The other side of the link is 1.2 km away, so I doubt it would be possible to aim the receiver tube as such that it does not receive the light of the lighthouse too. > Karel Kristoff ON1ARF From gullik.webjorn at corevalue.se Mon Jul 18 12:28:41 2011 From: gullik.webjorn at corevalue.se (Gullik =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Webj=F6rn?=) Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2011 13:28:41 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Ronja for unidirectional audio link In-Reply-To: <4E234C8A.3080306@skypro.be> References: <20110717192626.K20H8.13158.root@viefep11.chello.at> <4E234C8A.3080306@skypro.be> Message-ID: <1310988521.12354.5.camel@webjorn-EasyNote-LM85> If we assume Back Focus Length to be 300 mm, the difference in position in the focal plane between the lighthouse source and ronja would be 1/(1200/0.3) x 57.5 m ~= 14 mm. Size of detector about 5 mm, so you should be able to aim at remote ronja without getting the light at the detector. Any spacing greater than 20-25 m should be useable. Cheers, On Sun, 2011-07-17 at 22:56 +0200, Kristoff Bonne wrote: > Hallo Karel, > > > > Op 17-07-11 19:26, Karel Kulhavy schreef: > >> Question: what does the NIC do when it receives a frame from the > >> receiver with an error? Will it drop it or will it let it pass? > >> Does it interprete the ethernet CRC frame? > > Normally drop it > OK, there goes my idea to use the FEC information to try to CORRECT > corrupted information instead of just detecting errors. :-( > > > > How many meters between lighthouse source and ronja? > I haven't tought of that. > > The lighthouse itself is 57.5 meter, so , if we would place the ronja > somewhere at the bottom of the tower, it would be some maximum some 50 > meter away! > > > http://www.nielsvanrooij.com/index.php/2009/01/vuurtoren-belgie-oostende/ > > The other side of the link is 1.2 km away, so I doubt it would be > possible to aim the receiver tube as such that it does not receive the > light of the lighthouse too. > > > > > > Karel > Kristoff ON1ARF > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From twibright at hispeed.ch Mon Jul 18 13:51:52 2011 From: twibright at hispeed.ch (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2011 14:51:52 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Ronja for unidirectional audio link In-Reply-To: <1310988521.12354.5.camel@webjorn-EasyNote-LM85> References: <20110717192626.K20H8.13158.root@viefep11.chello.at> <4E234C8A.3080306@skypro.be> <1310988521.12354.5.camel@webjorn-EasyNote-LM85> Message-ID: <4E242C68.1090306@hispeed.ch> On 07/18/2011 01:28 PM, Gullik Webj?rn wrote: > If we assume Back Focus Length to be 300 mm, the difference in > position in the focal plane between the lighthouse source and > ronja would be 1/(1200/0.3) x 57.5 m ~= 14 mm. Size of detector > about 5 mm, so you should be able to aim at remote ronja without > getting the light at the detector. Any spacing greater than 20-25 m > should be useable. > Ah OK if the lighthouse is 57.5m then I wouldn't worry about the light much. Karel > Cheers, > > On Sun, 2011-07-17 at 22:56 +0200, Kristoff Bonne wrote: > >> Hallo Karel, >> >> >> >> Op 17-07-11 19:26, Karel Kulhavy schreef: >> >>>> Question: what does the NIC do when it receives a frame from the >>>> receiver with an error? Will it drop it or will it let it pass? >>>> Does it interprete the ethernet CRC frame? >>>> >>> Normally drop it >>> >> OK, there goes my idea to use the FEC information to try to CORRECT >> corrupted information instead of just detecting errors. :-( >> >> >> >>> How many meters between lighthouse source and ronja? >>> >> I haven't tought of that. >> >> The lighthouse itself is 57.5 meter, so , if we would place the ronja >> somewhere at the bottom of the tower, it would be some maximum some 50 >> meter away! >> >> >> http://www.nielsvanrooij.com/index.php/2009/01/vuurtoren-belgie-oostende/ >> >> The other side of the link is 1.2 km away, so I doubt it would be >> possible to aim the receiver tube as such that it does not receive the >> light of the lighthouse too. >> >> >> >> >> >>> Karel >>> >> Kristoff ON1ARF >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Ronja mailing list >> Ronja at lists.pointless.net >> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > From kristoff at skypro.be Mon Jul 18 14:31:03 2011 From: kristoff at skypro.be (Kristoff Bonne) Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2011 15:31:03 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Ronja for unidirectional audio link In-Reply-To: <4E242C68.1090306@hispeed.ch> References: <20110717192626.K20H8.13158.root@viefep11.chello.at> <4E234C8A.3080306@skypro.be> <1310988521.12354.5.camel@webjorn-EasyNote-LM85> <4E242C68.1090306@hispeed.ch> Message-ID: <4E243597.9000800@skypro.be> Karel, Gullik, Thanks for the information. (Looks like I still have a lot to learn about optics ... but, then again, that's why we do this ... to learn stuff). :-) Cheerio! Kristoff ON1ARF Op 18-07-11 14:51, Karel Kulhavy schreef: > On 07/18/2011 01:28 PM, Gullik Webj?rn wrote: >> If we assume Back Focus Length to be 300 mm, the difference in >> position in the focal plane between the lighthouse source and >> ronja would be 1/(1200/0.3) x 57.5 m ~= 14 mm. Size of detector >> about 5 mm, so you should be able to aim at remote ronja without >> getting the light at the detector. Any spacing greater than 20-25 m >> should be useable. >> > > Ah OK if the lighthouse is 57.5m then I wouldn't worry about the light > much. > > Karel >> Cheers, >> >> On Sun, 2011-07-17 at 22:56 +0200, Kristoff Bonne wrote: >> >>> Hallo Karel, >>> >>> >>> >>> Op 17-07-11 19:26, Karel Kulhavy schreef: >>> >>>>> Question: what does the NIC do when it receives a frame from the >>>>> receiver with an error? Will it drop it or will it let it pass? >>>>> Does it interprete the ethernet CRC frame? >>>>> >>>> Normally drop it >>>> >>> OK, there goes my idea to use the FEC information to try to CORRECT >>> corrupted information instead of just detecting errors. :-( >>> >>> >>> >>>> How many meters between lighthouse source and ronja? >>>> >>> I haven't tought of that. >>> >>> The lighthouse itself is 57.5 meter, so , if we would place the ronja >>> somewhere at the bottom of the tower, it would be some maximum some 50 >>> meter away! >>> >>> >>> http://www.nielsvanrooij.com/index.php/2009/01/vuurtoren-belgie-oostende/ >>> >>> >>> The other side of the link is 1.2 km away, so I doubt it would be >>> possible to aim the receiver tube as such that it does not receive the >>> light of the lighthouse too. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> Karel >>>> >>> Kristoff ON1ARF >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Ronja mailing list >>> Ronja at lists.pointless.net >>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Ronja mailing list >> Ronja at lists.pointless.net >> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja >