From asteri_x at freemail.hu Sat Mar 1 21:58:18 2008 From: asteri_x at freemail.hu (=?UTF-8?B?R3l1cmvDsyBNYXJ0aW4=?=) Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2008 22:58:18 +0100 Subject: [Ronja] vcsel-s retail Message-ID: <47C9D17A.7090704@freemail.hu> Hi! For those who want these crappy lasers: http://www.roithner-laser.com/VCSELs.htm May them work for you. Martin From gullik.webjorn at flysta.net Sun Mar 2 13:00:05 2008 From: gullik.webjorn at flysta.net (=?us-ascii?Q?Gullik_Webjorn?=) Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2008 14:00:05 +0100 Subject: [Ronja] vcsel-s retail In-Reply-To: <47C9D17A.7090704@freemail.hu> Message-ID: What is crappy about VCSEL?s? To me they seem ideal, circular beam, no or very little astigmatism, low threshold current, good efficiency, fast ( ghz) relatively robust, low cost. Why do you not like them? Gullik -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- Fran: ronja-bounces+gullik.webjorn=flysta.net at lists.pointless.net [mailto:ronja-bounces+gullik.webjorn=flysta.net at lists.pointless.net]For Gyurko Martin Skickat: den 1 mars 2008 22:58 Till: Twibright Ronja Amne: [Ronja] vcsel-s retail Hi! For those who want these crappy lasers: http://www.roithner-laser.com/VCSELs.htm May them work for you. Martin -- Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com Ronja at lists.pointless.net http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From eldis111 at seznam.cz Sun Mar 2 13:11:22 2008 From: eldis111 at seznam.cz (eldis) Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2008 14:11:22 +0100 Subject: [Ronja] vcsel-s retail In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <47CAA77A.5070200@seznam.cz> As Gullik says, VCSEL are much better than ordinary laser, just look at google. To me, it seems that VCSEL combines good things from laser and led into one package. eldis > What is crappy about VCSEL?s? > > To me they seem ideal, circular beam, no or very little > astigmatism, low threshold current, good efficiency, > fast ( ghz) relatively robust, low cost. > > Why do you not like them? > > Gullik > > -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- > Fran: ronja-bounces+gullik.webjorn=flysta.net na lists.pointless.net > [mailto:ronja-bounces+gullik.webjorn=flysta.net na lists.pointless.net]For > Gyurko Martin > Skickat: den 1 mars 2008 22:58 > Till: Twibright Ronja > Amne: [Ronja] vcsel-s retail > > > Hi! > > For those who want these crappy lasers: > > http://www.roithner-laser.com/VCSELs.htm > > May them work for you. > > Martin > > From asteri_x at freemail.hu Sun Mar 2 19:23:35 2008 From: asteri_x at freemail.hu (=?UTF-8?B?R3l1cmvDsyBNYXJ0aW4=?=) Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2008 20:23:35 +0100 Subject: [Ronja] vcsel-s retail In-Reply-To: <47CAA77A.5070200@seznam.cz> References: <47CAA77A.5070200@seznam.cz> Message-ID: <47CAFEB7.8060809@freemail.hu> Everything is fine... if you stay in the IR spectrum. if someone could find visible light high power VCSELs, that would be fine... Bye, Martin eldis ?rta: > As Gullik says, VCSEL are much better than ordinary laser, > just look at google. > To me, it seems that VCSEL combines good things from laser and led into > one package. > > eldis > > > >> What is crappy about VCSEL?s? >> >> To me they seem ideal, circular beam, no or very little >> astigmatism, low threshold current, good efficiency, >> fast ( ghz) relatively robust, low cost. >> >> Why do you not like them? >> >> Gullik >> >> -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- >> Fran: ronja-bounces+gullik.webjorn=flysta.net at lists.pointless.net >> [mailto:ronja-bounces+gullik.webjorn=flysta.net at lists.pointless.net]For >> Gyurko Martin >> Skickat: den 1 mars 2008 22:58 >> Till: Twibright Ronja >> Amne: [Ronja] vcsel-s retail >> >> >> Hi! >> >> For those who want these crappy lasers: >> >> http://www.roithner-laser.com/VCSELs.htm >> >> May them work for you. >> >> Martin >> >> >> > > > From eldis111 at seznam.cz Sun Mar 2 19:58:46 2008 From: eldis111 at seznam.cz (eldis111) Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2008 20:58:46 +0100 (CET) Subject: [Ronja] vcsel-s retail In-Reply-To: <47CAFEB7.8060809@freemail.hu> Message-ID: <4593.8676-22812-357262760-1204487926@seznam.cz> Is there reason not-to stay in IR? Only advantage I can think is easier aiming.. We installed many IR (professional) FSO, it is even faster than making radio link (at least around 10GHz). Higher wavelength => better SNR due to losses in atmosphere and interference from other sources. But there might be another reasons.. So, what is your opinion? eldis > Everything is fine... if you stay in the IR spectrum. > if someone could find visible light high power VCSELs, that would be fine... > Bye, > Martin > > eldis ?rta: > > As Gullik says, VCSEL are much better than ordinary laser, > > just look at google. > > To me, it seems that VCSEL combines good things from laser and led into > > one package. > > > > eldis > > > > > > > >> What is crappy about VCSEL?s? > >> > >> To me they seem ideal, circular beam, no or very little > >> astigmatism, low threshold current, good efficiency, > >> fast ( ghz) relatively robust, low cost. > >> > >> Why do you not like them? > >> > >> Gullik > >> > >> -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- > >> Fran: ronja-bounces+gullik.webjorn=flysta.net na lists.pointless.net > >> [mailto:ronja-bounces+gullik.webjorn=flysta.net na lists.pointless.net]For > >> Gyurko Martin > >> Skickat: den 1 mars 2008 22:58 > >> Till: Twibright Ronja > >> Amne: [Ronja] vcsel-s retail > >> > >> > >> Hi! > >> > >> For those who want these crappy lasers: > >> > >> http://www.roithner-laser.com/VCSELs.htm > >> > >> May them work for you. > >> > >> Martin > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > -- > Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com > Ronja na lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > > From pkyaduvanshi at gmail.com Mon Mar 3 01:56:55 2008 From: pkyaduvanshi at gmail.com (Pramod yaduvanshi) Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 07:26:55 +0530 Subject: [Ronja] IR vs Visible Message-ID: <50d3ad760803021756h10ace8c7k489ae333ecc38798@mail.gmail.com> In IR Photodiodes will have a better response too!! since Silicon PIN diodes have higher responsivity at IR frequencies ..am not sure if there are Lasers and PIN available at a 1300 0r 1500 nm !! If there are then they will be eye safe and can pump in more power unlike 850nm !! Does any one know of some cheap Lasers and diodes in this band? 1300/1500nm? PK Yaduvanshi On 03/03/2008, eldis111 wrote: > > Is there reason not-to stay in IR? Only advantage I can think is easier > aiming.. > We installed many IR (professional) FSO, it is even faster than making > radio link (at least around 10GHz). > Higher wavelength => better SNR due to losses in atmosphere and > interference from other sources. > But there might be another reasons.. So, what is your opinion? > > eldis > > > > Everything is fine... if you stay in the IR spectrum. > > if someone could find visible light high power VCSELs, that would be > fine... > > Bye, > > Martin > > > > eldis ?rta: > > > As Gullik says, VCSEL are much better than ordinary laser, > > > just look at google. > > > To me, it seems that VCSEL combines good things from laser and led > into > > > one package. > > > > > > eldis > > > > > > > > > > > >> What is crappy about VCSEL?s? > > >> > > >> To me they seem ideal, circular beam, no or very little > > >> astigmatism, low threshold current, good efficiency, > > >> fast ( ghz) relatively robust, low cost. > > >> > > >> Why do you not like them? > > >> > > >> Gullik > > >> > > >> -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- > > >> Fran: ronja-bounces+gullik.webjorn=flysta.net at lists.pointless.net > > >> [mailto:ronja-bounces+gullik.webjorn=flysta.net at lists.pointless.net > ]For > > >> Gyurko Martin > > >> Skickat: den 1 mars 2008 22:58 > > >> Till: Twibright Ronja > > >> Amne: [Ronja] vcsel-s retail > > >> > > >> > > >> Hi! > > >> > > >> For those who want these crappy lasers: > > >> > > >> http://www.roithner-laser.com/VCSELs.htm > > >> > > >> May them work for you. > > >> > > >> Martin > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com > > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > > > > > > > -- > Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > -- Tel: +91 9940589851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20080303/ba202eb7/attachment.html From gullik.webjorn at flysta.net Mon Mar 3 11:14:23 2008 From: gullik.webjorn at flysta.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Gullik_Webj=C3=B6rn?=) Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 12:14:23 +0100 Subject: [Ronja] vcsel-s retail In-Reply-To: <47CAFEB7.8060809@freemail.hu> Message-ID: Hi Martin, Roithner also has red 670 nm VCSELs. They are low power, but what matters is the *intensity* on axis. Since the VCSEL has a small die, many times smaller than a LED, it should be possible to get much less divergence, based on the same size optics, and focal length. This is good for power, but bad for alignment, since the spot is smaller. This probably requires another strategy for alignment, maybee electronicly aided. If an alignment system is designed, that does not rely on "eyesight", then the issue of visible versus IR is less important. Probably the glass window based vcsels are the best, since you want a reasonable back focal length, and the epoxy package cannot be expected to have very good (relative) precision. What is missing in the datasheets for red vcsels is the switching time, should be in the 1 nS range, but it is not specified. You have about 1 mW out, you need more than 1 uW or so, that allows for a transmission path loss of 30 dB in the VCSEL case. Gullik >Everything is fine... if you stay in the IR spectrum. >if someone could find visible light high power VCSELs, that would be fine... >Bye, >Martin From gullik.webjorn at flysta.net Mon Mar 3 11:17:55 2008 From: gullik.webjorn at flysta.net (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Gullik_Webj=F6rn?=) Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 12:17:55 +0100 Subject: [Ronja] IR vs Visible In-Reply-To: <50d3ad760803021756h10ace8c7k489ae333ecc38798@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Si rolls of above 900-1000 nm, for 1300-1600 you use GaAs. One way to handle eye safety is to have a negotiation protocol, where the laser runs with fill power, bur very low duty cycle. Once communication is established the duty cycle goes to 100 %. If the link fails, due to the RX not seeing the TX, the negotiation protocol is entered, lowering duty cycle below 1% The result is that a bird or human getting into the optical path will lower the energy so the beam will still be eyesafe, until both units see each other with proper levels, meaning there is nothing in the path. Remember, police laser speed guns with watts of power are considered eyesafe due to the low duty cycle. Gullik -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- Fr?n: ronja-bounces+gullik.webjorn=flysta.net at lists.pointless.net [mailto:ronja-bounces+gullik.webjorn=flysta.net at lists.pointless.net]F?r Pramod yaduvanshi Skickat: den 3 mars 2008 02:57 Till: Twibright Ronja ?mne: [Ronja] IR vs Visible In IR Photodiodes will have a better response too!! since Silicon PIN diodes have higher responsivity at IR frequencies ..am not sure if there are Lasers and PIN available at a 1300 0r 1500 nm !! If there are then they will be eye safe and can pump in more power unlike 850nm !! Does any one know of some cheap Lasers and diodes in this band? 1300/1500nm? PK Yaduvanshi On 03/03/2008, eldis111 wrote: Is there reason not-to stay in IR? Only advantage I can think is easier aiming.. We installed many IR (professional) FSO, it is even faster than making radio link (at least around 10GHz). Higher wavelength => better SNR due to losses in atmosphere and interference from other sources. But there might be another reasons.. So, what is your opinion? eldis > Everything is fine... if you stay in the IR spectrum. > if someone could find visible light high power VCSELs, that would be fine... > Bye, > Martin > > eldis ?rta: > > As Gullik says, VCSEL are much better than ordinary laser, > > just look at google. > > To me, it seems that VCSEL combines good things from laser and led into > > one package. > > > > eldis > > > > > > > >> What is crappy about VCSEL?s? > >> > >> To me they seem ideal, circular beam, no or very little > >> astigmatism, low threshold current, good efficiency, > >> fast ( ghz) relatively robust, low cost. > >> > >> Why do you not like them? > >> > >> Gullik > >> > >> -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- > >> Fran: ronja-bounces+gullik.webjorn=flysta.net at lists.pointless.net > >> [mailto:ronja-bounces+gullik.webjorn=flysta.net at lists.pointless.net]For > >> Gyurko Martin > >> Skickat: den 1 mars 2008 22:58 > >> Till: Twibright Ronja > >> Amne: [Ronja] vcsel-s retail > >> > >> > >> Hi! > >> > >> For those who want these crappy lasers: > >> > >> http://www.roithner-laser.com/VCSELs.htm > >> > >> May them work for you. > >> > >> Martin > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > -- > Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > > -- Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com Ronja at lists.pointless.net http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja -- Tel: +91 9940589851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20080303/07c75be5/attachment-0001.html From malcolmry at yahoo.com Mon Mar 3 11:40:46 2008 From: malcolmry at yahoo.com (malcolm young) Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 03:40:46 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Ronja] Farnell part list Message-ID: <174006.96651.qm@web90501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hello I'm in the UK and would like to build and test a Ronja Link. Does anyone have a list of Farnell product codes for Ronja BOM. Group consists of Computer and network professionals but no electronics experience beyond board level fixes, some some soldering experience. Any help, advice would be appreciated. Malcolm... ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping From bms at incunabulum.net Mon Mar 3 12:41:12 2008 From: bms at incunabulum.net (Bruce M Simpson) Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2008 12:41:12 +0000 Subject: [Ronja] Farnell part list In-Reply-To: <174006.96651.qm@web90501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <174006.96651.qm@web90501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <47CBF1E8.4070103@incunabulum.net> malcolm young wrote: > Hello > > I'm in the UK and would like to build and test a Ronja > Link. Does anyone have a list of Farnell product codes > for Ronja BOM. > > Group consists of Computer and network professionals > but no electronics experience beyond board level > fixes, some some soldering experience. > > Any help, advice would be appreciated. > Dude, If you're in London, let's meet, because I have a Twister1 and just waiting on parts for the Twister2. I can tell you all you need to know over a beer. The hardest parts to source are the line drivers, 74HC133s and 74HC93 SOIC's. later BMS From pkyaduvanshi at gmail.com Tue Mar 4 02:47:40 2008 From: pkyaduvanshi at gmail.com (Pramod yaduvanshi) Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 08:17:40 +0530 Subject: [Ronja] Resonant Cavity LED Message-ID: <50d3ad760803031847laa7968fv2fe4d503702a8f6b@mail.gmail.com> Has any one seen resonant cavity LED ?? What if we use them for 100 Mbps link since they will be much cheaper compared to VCSELs and will support higher datarates . I am not sure if there are high power RCLEDs available currently in market or we can use existing RCLEDs for Ronja? -- Tel: +91 9940589851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20080304/fc6f259b/attachment.html From giuseppe at arachne.cz Thu Mar 6 07:36:31 2008 From: giuseppe at arachne.cz (giuseppe at arachne.cz) Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 08:36:31 +0100 (CET) Subject: [Ronja] Laser Drivers ? Message-ID: <39011.213.194.247.66.1204788991.squirrel@ssl.arachne.cz> http://www.analog.com/en/subCat/0,2879,1074%255F845%255F0%255F%255F0%255F,00.html From jdb at lartmaker.nl Thu Mar 6 09:43:57 2008 From: jdb at lartmaker.nl (J.D. Bakker) Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 10:43:57 +0100 Subject: [Ronja] Laser Drivers ? Message-ID: >http://www.analog.com/en/subCat/0,2879,1074%255F845%255F0%255F%255F0%255F,00.html There's a deeper issue here. While a high-performance link can no doubt be built with specialized parts (in LFCSP or other non-DIY-friendly packages), I had the impression that one of the goals of Ronja is/was that it could be put together from simple, off-the-shelf components by people with minimal experience. It would be a pity to lose that. Also, specialized parts have a nasty tendency to become unavailable over time. JDB [yes, I know that people are having trouble sourcing the specified LED. On the other hand, that's just the LED that works *best* -- for a working system with maybe a bit less range you can use pretty much any LED, especially if you adapt the optics to the illumination angle of the LED (or the other way around)] -- LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files. http://www.lartmaker.nl/ From twibright at hispeed.ch Thu Mar 6 18:29:41 2008 From: twibright at hispeed.ch (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 19:29:41 +0100 Subject: [Ronja] Skateboard a good grinding tool for DIY Message-ID: <21111244.1204828181558.JavaMail.root@viefep16> I needed to grind down a 5mm LED to 4mm. I tried a sandpaper but that was very difficult to keep the right position of the LED. So I got an idea to use my skateboard. There is the griptape which is basically a sandpaper. So I held the LED in a forceps and drove the skateboard back and forth and that grinded the LED very efficiently and the angle of grinding stayed exactly the same during the movement. The result was good. CL< From jakub.michnik at centrum.cz Thu Mar 13 16:31:29 2008 From: jakub.michnik at centrum.cz (=?windows-1250?Q?Jakub_Michn=EDk?=) Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 17:31:29 +0100 Subject: [Ronja] shanim ledky In-Reply-To: <200704101807.2771@centrum.cz> References: <200704101807.2771@centrum.cz> Message-ID: <47D956E1.2000909@centrum.cz> Ahoj Tusim ze ondra tesar je nekde v zahranici nebo neco podobneho. Nenasel by se nekdo tak dobry, kdo by mi posla asi 4 ledky? F4000 nejlip. ICQ 174 805 107 diky moc Kubas From hybrid.parameter at yahoo.com Thu Mar 13 19:00:16 2008 From: hybrid.parameter at yahoo.com (Saad Shakeel) Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 12:00:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Ronja] Trying out a FPGA In-Reply-To: <47D956E1.2000909@centrum.cz> Message-ID: <888625.98250.qm@web44914.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Hi everyone, Just got a SPARTAN 3-E FPGA..... and was wondering if i can implement the some parts of the RONJA on it as well.... I came across the SPIDER project, which was implemented on a CPLD, but i'm not sure if a CPLD code is compatible with an FPGA too? Anyone here with some ideas or tips for designing on an FPGA ? Regards, Saad P.S. Could anyone remind me the link of the SPIDER project... I saw it a few months ago but i can't seem to find it now.. --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20080313/204dd0f5/attachment.html From gmaxwell at gmail.com Thu Mar 13 19:38:02 2008 From: gmaxwell at gmail.com (Gregory Maxwell) Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 15:38:02 -0400 Subject: [Ronja] Trying out a FPGA In-Reply-To: <888625.98250.qm@web44914.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <47D956E1.2000909@centrum.cz> <888625.98250.qm@web44914.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Mar 13, 2008 at 3:00 PM, Saad Shakeel wrote: > Hi everyone, > > Just got a SPARTAN 3-E FPGA..... and was wondering if i can implement the > some parts of the RONJA on it as well.... > I came across the SPIDER project, which was implemented on a CPLD, but i'm > not sure if a CPLD code is compatible with an FPGA too? If you have a DAC and ADC chips you could implement the pretty much a complete signal chain... QAM (de)modulation on the FPGA, error correction, equalization, etc. A ronja type device could consist of little more than: [ethernet mac] - [fpga] - [dac] - [voltage to current amp] - [Tx LED] - [adc] - [preamp] - [RX sensor] - [small dac] / < AGC A digital signal chain like this is, in my opinion, the most cost effective way to achieve speeds of 100mbit without switching to laser diodes. QAM 16 would should be able to fit 100mbit into the (post equalization) bandpass or the LEDs being used for 10mbit ronja today, though I do not know what the SNR is like on real paths. From xask.linus at gmail.com Sat Mar 15 06:41:39 2008 From: xask.linus at gmail.com (Deepak Mishra) Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 12:11:39 +0530 Subject: [Ronja] electronics newbie question Message-ID: <3722a3330803142341w37bd1cf8k91bd769fbaf6bc7b@mail.gmail.com> Hi, While checking for the availability of the RONJA components, I got confused a bit I was looking for the 74xxxx, the packaging mentioned "DIP", "SOIC" but NOT "SMD" as in the RONJA part list. IS SOIC the same as SMD. They seem like the same thing can I use the SOIC packaged ICs on the PCB listed at the website. Regards, Deepak -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20080315/e458caa5/attachment.html From twibright at hispeed.ch Sat Mar 15 07:24:19 2008 From: twibright at hispeed.ch (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 8:24:19 +0100 Subject: [Ronja] electronics newbie question Message-ID: <21895808.1205565859235.JavaMail.root@viefep14> ---- Deepak Mishra schrieb: > Hi, > > While checking for the availability of the RONJA components, I got confused > a bit > I was looking for the 74xxxx, > > the packaging mentioned "DIP", "SOIC" but NOT "SMD" as in the RONJA part > list. > > IS SOIC the same as SMD. They seem like the same thing > > can I use the SOIC packaged ICs on the PCB listed at the website. Yes. I should change it in the partlists. CL< > > Regards, > Deepak From asteri_x at freemail.hu Sat Mar 15 09:15:33 2008 From: asteri_x at freemail.hu (=?UTF-8?B?R3l1cmvDsyBNYXJ0aW4=?=) Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 10:15:33 +0100 Subject: [Ronja] electronics newbie question In-Reply-To: <21895808.1205565859235.JavaMail.root@viefep14> References: <21895808.1205565859235.JavaMail.root@viefep14> Message-ID: <47DB93B5.60603@freemail.hu> Through hole pins: DIP = Dual in line through hole pins DIL = DIP SMD devices are all the other: SOIC = A Small-Outline Integrated Circuit TSSOP = Thin-Shrink Small Outline Package BGA = Ball grid array bye, Martin Karel Kulhavy ?rta: > ---- Deepak Mishra schrieb: >> Hi, >> >> While checking for the availability of the RONJA components, I got confused >> a bit >> I was looking for the 74xxxx, >> >> the packaging mentioned "DIP", "SOIC" but NOT "SMD" as in the RONJA part >> list. >> >> IS SOIC the same as SMD. They seem like the same thing >> >> can I use the SOIC packaged ICs on the PCB listed at the website. > > Yes. I should change it in the partlists. > > CL< >> Regards, >> Deepak > > From twibright at hispeed.ch Sat Mar 15 11:32:54 2008 From: twibright at hispeed.ch (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 12:32:54 +0100 Subject: [Ronja] electronics newbie question Message-ID: <21879686.1205580774868.JavaMail.root@viefep14> ---- "Gyurk? Martin" schrieb: > Through hole pins: DIP = Dual in line through hole pins DIL = DIP SMD devices are all the other: SOIC = A Small-Outline Integrated Circuit TSSOP = Thin-Shrink Small Outline Package BGA = Ball grid array DIL/DIP means the wires are stuck into holes in a board. SMD means the device is just laid down on the board without any holes and soldered directly to the traces. CL< bye, Martin Karel Kulhavy ?rta: > ---- Deepak Mishra schrieb: >> Hi, >> >> While checking for the availability of the RONJA components, I got confused >> a bit >> I was looking for the 74xxxx, >> >> the packaging mentioned "DIP", "SOIC" but NOT "SMD" as in the RONJA part >> list. >> >> IS SOIC the same as SMD. They seem like the same thing >> >> can I use the SOIC packaged ICs on the PCB listed at the website. > > Yes. I should change it in the partlists. > > CL< >> Regards, >> Deepak > > -- Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com Ronja at lists.pointless.net http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From xask.linus at gmail.com Sat Mar 15 13:23:25 2008 From: xask.linus at gmail.com (Deepak Mishra) Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 18:53:25 +0530 Subject: [Ronja] electronics newbie question In-Reply-To: <21879686.1205580774868.JavaMail.root@viefep14> References: <21879686.1205580774868.JavaMail.root@viefep14> Message-ID: <3722a3330803150623m3b99779en69b5df2aaf69c515@mail.gmail.com> Thanks a lot ! On 15/03/2008, Karel Kulhavy wrote: > > ---- "Gyurk? Martin" schrieb: > > > Through hole pins: > DIP = Dual in line through hole pins > DIL = DIP > > SMD devices are all the other: > SOIC = A Small-Outline Integrated Circuit > TSSOP = Thin-Shrink Small Outline Package > BGA = Ball grid array > > > > DIL/DIP means the wires are stuck into holes in a board. SMD means the > device is just > laid down on the board without any holes and soldered directly to the > traces. > > CL< > > bye, > Martin > > > Karel Kulhavy ?rta: > > > ---- Deepak Mishra schrieb: > >> Hi, > >> > >> While checking for the availability of the RONJA components, I got > confused > >> a bit > >> I was looking for the 74xxxx, > >> > >> the packaging mentioned "DIP", "SOIC" but NOT "SMD" as in the RONJA > part > >> list. > >> > >> IS SOIC the same as SMD. They seem like the same thing > >> > >> can I use the SOIC packaged ICs on the PCB listed at the website. > > > > Yes. I should change it in the partlists. > > > > CL< > >> Regards, > >> Deepak > > > > > > > -- > Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > > > -- > Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20080315/4d4108f5/attachment.html From hybrid.parameter at yahoo.com Sat Mar 15 19:32:08 2008 From: hybrid.parameter at yahoo.com (Saad Shakeel) Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 12:32:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Ronja] Trying out a FPGA In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <186479.31020.qm@web44905.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Thanks for the info Gregory, It does have an integrated ADC/ DAC, I will discuss the possibility with my instructors... By the way does anyone have the link for the spider project? Thanks Saad Gregory Maxwell wrote: On Thu, Mar 13, 2008 at 3:00 PM, Saad Shakeel wrote: > Hi everyone, > > Just got a SPARTAN 3-E FPGA..... and was wondering if i can implement the > some parts of the RONJA on it as well.... > I came across the SPIDER project, which was implemented on a CPLD, but i'm > not sure if a CPLD code is compatible with an FPGA too? If you have a DAC and ADC chips you could implement the pretty much a complete signal chain... QAM (de)modulation on the FPGA, error correction, equalization, etc. A ronja type device could consist of little more than: [ethernet mac] - [fpga] - [dac] - [voltage to current amp] - [Tx LED] - [adc] - [preamp] - [RX sensor] - [small dac] / < AGC A digital signal chain like this is, in my opinion, the most cost effective way to achieve speeds of 100mbit without switching to laser diodes. QAM 16 would should be able to fit 100mbit into the (post equalization) bandpass or the LEDs being used for 10mbit ronja today, though I do not know what the SNR is like on real paths. -- Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com Ronja at lists.pointless.net http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20080315/3df8e824/attachment.html From eldis111 at seznam.cz Sat Mar 15 21:30:57 2008 From: eldis111 at seznam.cz (eldis) Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 22:30:57 +0100 Subject: [Ronja] Trying out a FPGA In-Reply-To: <186479.31020.qm@web44905.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <186479.31020.qm@web44905.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <47DC4011.6050803@seznam.cz> Very important thing - ADC/DAC must be High-speed.. I assume, that you are talking about Spartan-IIIE Starter kit - look at manual, it will be way too slow. eldis > Thanks for the info Gregory, > > It does have an integrated ADC/ DAC, I will discuss the possibility > with my instructors... > > By the way does anyone have the link for the spider project? > > Thanks > > Saad > > */Gregory Maxwell /* wrote: > > On Thu, Mar 13, 2008 at 3:00 PM, Saad Shakeel > wrote: > > Hi everyone, > > > > Just got a SPARTAN 3-E FPGA..... and was wondering if i can > implement the > > some parts of the RONJA on it as well.... > > I came across the SPIDER project, which was implemented on a > CPLD, but i'm > > not sure if a CPLD code is compatible with an FPGA too? > > If you have a DAC and ADC chips you could implement the pretty much a > complete signal chain... QAM (de)modulation on the FPGA, error > correction, equalization, etc. > > A ronja type device could consist of little more than: > > [ethernet mac] - [fpga] - [dac] - [voltage to current amp] - [Tx LED] > - [adc] - [preamp] - [RX sensor] > - [small dac] / < AGC > > A digital signal chain like this is, in my opinion, the most cost > effective way to achieve speeds of 100mbit without switching to laser > diodes. > > QAM 16 would should be able to fit 100mbit into the (post > equalization) bandpass or the LEDs being used for 10mbit ronja today, > though I do not know what the SNR is like on real paths. > > -- > Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com > Ronja na lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! > Search. > From arunk at speedpost.net Sun Mar 16 01:52:13 2008 From: arunk at speedpost.net (Arun Krishnan) Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 07:22:13 +0530 Subject: [Ronja] Trying out a FPGA In-Reply-To: <47DC4011.6050803@seznam.cz> References: <186479.31020.qm@web44905.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <47DC4011.6050803@seznam.cz> Message-ID: <1205632333.7277.1242619725@webmail.messagingengine.com> Hi. http://bleesmrt.hopto.org/~ladmanj/spider/ Regards, Arun ----- Original message ----- From: "eldis" To: "Twibright Ronja" Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 22:30:57 +0100 Subject: Re: [Ronja] Trying out a FPGA Very important thing - ADC/DAC must be High-speed.. I assume, that you are talking about Spartan-IIIE Starter kit - look at manual, it will be way too slow. eldis > Thanks for the info Gregory, > > It does have an integrated ADC/ DAC, I will discuss the possibility > with my instructors... > > By the way does anyone have the link for the spider project? > > Thanks > > Saad > > */Gregory Maxwell /* wrote: > > On Thu, Mar 13, 2008 at 3:00 PM, Saad Shakeel > wrote: > > Hi everyone, > > > > Just got a SPARTAN 3-E FPGA..... and was wondering if i can > implement the > > some parts of the RONJA on it as well.... > > I came across the SPIDER project, which was implemented on a > CPLD, but i'm > > not sure if a CPLD code is compatible with an FPGA too? > > If you have a DAC and ADC chips you could implement the pretty much a > complete signal chain... QAM (de)modulation on the FPGA, error > correction, equalization, etc. > > A ronja type device could consist of little more than: > > [ethernet mac] - [fpga] - [dac] - [voltage to current amp] - [Tx LED] > - [adc] - [preamp] - [RX sensor] > - [small dac] / < AGC > > A digital signal chain like this is, in my opinion, the most cost > effective way to achieve speeds of 100mbit without switching to laser > diodes. > > QAM 16 would should be able to fit 100mbit into the (post > equalization) bandpass or the LEDs being used for 10mbit ronja today, > though I do not know what the SNR is like on real paths. > > -- > Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! > Search. > -- Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com Ronja at lists.pointless.net http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From ladmanj at volny.cz Sun Mar 16 10:53:04 2008 From: ladmanj at volny.cz (Jakub Ladman) Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 11:53:04 +0100 Subject: [Ronja] Trying out a FPGA In-Reply-To: <1205632333.7277.1242619725@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <186479.31020.qm@web44905.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <47DC4011.6050803@seznam.cz> <1205632333.7277.1242619725@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <200803161153.04283.ladmanj@volny.cz> Here is the fastest mirror http://kuba.tharrrk.net/spider/ Unfortunately, there is not any english version. Verilog code compiled for CPLD can be compiled also for FPGA, but i have no experience with any FPGA, but its much larger capacity may be very nice. CPLDs are a little bit faster, than FPGAs, but here, where 32MHz maximal frequency is used it will be no problem. Xilinx webpack gives you information about speed of the project after its compilation. Jakub Ladman Dne Sunday 16 March 2008 02:52:13 Arun Krishnan napsal(a): > Hi. > > http://bleesmrt.hopto.org/~ladmanj/spider/ > > Regards, > Arun > > > ----- Original message ----- > From: "eldis" > To: "Twibright Ronja" > Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 22:30:57 +0100 > Subject: Re: [Ronja] Trying out a FPGA > > Very important thing - ADC/DAC must be High-speed.. > I assume, that you are talking about Spartan-IIIE Starter kit - look at > manual, it will be way too slow. > > eldis > > > Thanks for the info Gregory, > > > > It does have an integrated ADC/ DAC, I will discuss the possibility > > with my instructors... > > > > By the way does anyone have the link for the spider project? > > > > Thanks > > > > Saad > > > > */Gregory Maxwell /* wrote: > > > > On Thu, Mar 13, 2008 at 3:00 PM, Saad Shakeel > > > > wrote: > > > Hi everyone, > > > > > > Just got a SPARTAN 3-E FPGA..... and was wondering if i can > > > > implement the > > > > > some parts of the RONJA on it as well.... > > > I came across the SPIDER project, which was implemented on a > > > > CPLD, but i'm > > > > > not sure if a CPLD code is compatible with an FPGA too? > > > > If you have a DAC and ADC chips you could implement the pretty much a > > complete signal chain... QAM (de)modulation on the FPGA, error > > correction, equalization, etc. > > > > A ronja type device could consist of little more than: > > > > [ethernet mac] - [fpga] - [dac] - [voltage to current amp] - [Tx LED] > > - [adc] - [preamp] - [RX sensor] > > - [small dac] / < AGC > > > > A digital signal chain like this is, in my opinion, the most cost > > effective way to achieve speeds of 100mbit without switching to laser > > diodes. > > > > QAM 16 would should be able to fit 100mbit into the (post > > equalization) bandpass or the LEDs being used for 10mbit ronja today, > > though I do not know what the SNR is like on real paths. > > > > -- > > Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com > > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! > > Search. > > >h/category.php?category=shopping> > > -- > Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From hybrid.parameter at yahoo.com Sun Mar 16 18:10:13 2008 From: hybrid.parameter at yahoo.com (Saad Shakeel) Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 11:10:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Ronja] Trying out a FPGA In-Reply-To: <200803161153.04283.ladmanj@volny.cz> Message-ID: <685920.3541.qm@web44912.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Thanks Gregory,Eldis, Arun and Jakub. I'm onto it... lets see how it works out. Saad Jakub Ladman wrote: Here is the fastest mirror http://kuba.tharrrk.net/spider/ Unfortunately, there is not any english version. Verilog code compiled for CPLD can be compiled also for FPGA, but i have no experience with any FPGA, but its much larger capacity may be very nice. CPLDs are a little bit faster, than FPGAs, but here, where 32MHz maximal frequency is used it will be no problem. Xilinx webpack gives you information about speed of the project after its compilation. Jakub Ladman Dne Sunday 16 March 2008 02:52:13 Arun Krishnan napsal(a): > Hi. > > http://bleesmrt.hopto.org/~ladmanj/spider/ > > Regards, > Arun > > > ----- Original message ----- > From: "eldis" > To: "Twibright Ronja" > Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 22:30:57 +0100 > Subject: Re: [Ronja] Trying out a FPGA > > Very important thing - ADC/DAC must be High-speed.. > I assume, that you are talking about Spartan-IIIE Starter kit - look at > manual, it will be way too slow. > > eldis > > > Thanks for the info Gregory, > > > > It does have an integrated ADC/ DAC, I will discuss the possibility > > with my instructors... > > > > By the way does anyone have the link for the spider project? > > > > Thanks > > > > Saad > > > > */Gregory Maxwell /* wrote: > > > > On Thu, Mar 13, 2008 at 3:00 PM, Saad Shakeel > > > > wrote: > > > Hi everyone, > > > > > > Just got a SPARTAN 3-E FPGA..... and was wondering if i can > > > > implement the > > > > > some parts of the RONJA on it as well.... > > > I came across the SPIDER project, which was implemented on a > > > > CPLD, but i'm > > > > > not sure if a CPLD code is compatible with an FPGA too? > > > > If you have a DAC and ADC chips you could implement the pretty much a > > complete signal chain... QAM (de)modulation on the FPGA, error > > correction, equalization, etc. > > > > A ronja type device could consist of little more than: > > > > [ethernet mac] - [fpga] - [dac] - [voltage to current amp] - [Tx LED] > > - [adc] - [preamp] - [RX sensor] > > - [small dac] / < AGC > > > > A digital signal chain like this is, in my opinion, the most cost > > effective way to achieve speeds of 100mbit without switching to laser > > diodes. > > > > QAM 16 would should be able to fit 100mbit into the (post > > equalization) bandpass or the LEDs being used for 10mbit ronja today, > > though I do not know what the SNR is like on real paths. > > > > -- > > Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com > > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! > > Search. > > > >h/category.php?category=shopping> > > -- > Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja -- Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com Ronja at lists.pointless.net http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20080316/b1817fe1/attachment.html From bms at incunabulum.net Mon Mar 17 09:25:22 2008 From: bms at incunabulum.net (Bruce M Simpson) Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 09:25:22 +0000 Subject: [Ronja] pcapified BERTEST Message-ID: <47DE3902.7090501@incunabulum.net> Here is a pcapified bertest for FreeBSD. I have performed no other testing other than compilation and packet send on FreeBSD, nor have I ported any of the Linux/bash specific test scripts to other operating systems. It should probably build on MacOS X and other BSDs with minimal changes. Windows usage will require that the mac address function is hacked to use IPHLPAPI.DLL, this is a minimal change. The test scripts themselves look like they need to be ported to a POSIX compiant shell to work with other operating systems. cheers BMS -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: bertest-pcap.c Type: text/x-csrc Size: 5016 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20080317/4b2d0d73/attachment.bin From twibright at hispeed.ch Mon Mar 17 10:18:10 2008 From: twibright at hispeed.ch (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 11:18:10 +0100 Subject: [Ronja] pcapified BERTEST Message-ID: <4732764.1205749092290.JavaMail.root@viefep17> ---- Bruce M Simpson schrieb: > Here is a pcapified bertest for FreeBSD. Excellent job, thanks. Now it should work on OpenBSD as well, right? > > I have performed no other testing other than compilation and packet send > on FreeBSD, nor have I ported any of the Linux/bash specific test > scripts to other operating systems. > > It should probably build on MacOS X and other BSDs with minimal changes. > Windows usage will require that the mac address function is hacked to > use IPHLPAPI.DLL, this is a minimal change. Amazing. It could work even on Windows. I should definitely put it into the subversion and integrate it into the Ronja tree when I find some time. CL< > > The test scripts themselves look like they need to be ported to a POSIX > compiant shell to work with other operating systems. > > cheers > BMS From bms at incunabulum.net Mon Mar 17 18:18:52 2008 From: bms at incunabulum.net (Bruce M Simpson) Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 18:18:52 +0000 Subject: [Ronja] BSDified pktloss In-Reply-To: <47DE3902.7090501@incunabulum.net> References: <47DE3902.7090501@incunabulum.net> Message-ID: <47DEB60C.7040606@incunabulum.net> Here is the BSDified pktloss script. The main changes are to use bash from the environment, and to use netstat for the counter retrieval. I tested this with a Twister v1, unfortunately it seems the receive path didn't work when I tried to loopback across the RX and TX terminals (1MHz idle pulse is fine and the HPWT lights up correctly).. yet to double confirm with the scope. My twister2's need shift registers and inductors to get finished... but that's another story. later BMS -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: pktloss Url: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20080317/610a7dbf/attachment.ksh From Schneider2000 at web.de Mon Mar 17 18:30:37 2008 From: Schneider2000 at web.de (Daniel Schneider) Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 19:30:37 +0100 Subject: [Ronja] Problem with RONJA Message-ID: <85029428@web.de> Hi, I bulit the whole RONJA and during idle mode everything is allright. When I do the paketloss test or only the permanent 10Mhz with one Twister, one RX and one TX the data does not go through. If I disconect the receiver I can follow the data with an ocilloscope to the output of the receiver. If I plug it in again only the RX and the TX indication LEDs are flashing fast. Is there anyone who had problems like these or anyone who can help me??? Thanx a lot in advance! Daniel _______________________________________________________________________ Jetzt neu! Sch?tzen Sie Ihren PC mit McAfee und WEB.DE. 30 Tage kostenlos testen. http://www.pc-sicherheit.web.de/startseite/?mc=022220 From twibright at hispeed.ch Mon Mar 17 20:56:13 2008 From: twibright at hispeed.ch (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 21:56:13 +0100 Subject: [Ronja] Problem with RONJA Message-ID: <26114469.1205787373067.JavaMail.root@viefep16> ---- Daniel Schneider schrieb: > Hi, > > I bulit the whole RONJA and during idle mode everything is allright. When I do the paketloss test or only the permanent 10Mhz with one Twister, one RX and one TX the data does not go through. If I disconect the receiver I can follow the data with an ocilloscope to the output of the receiver. If I plug it in again only the RX and the TX indication LEDs are flashing fast. > Is there anyone who had problems like these or anyone who can help me??? > Thanx a lot in advance! Did you do anything different from the instructions? Do you have pictures? CL< > > Daniel > > _______________________________________________________________________ > Jetzt neu! Sch?tzen Sie Ihren PC mit McAfee und WEB.DE. 30 Tage > kostenlos testen. http://www.pc-sicherheit.web.de/startseite/?mc=022220 > > > -- > Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From twibright at hispeed.ch Mon Mar 17 20:58:25 2008 From: twibright at hispeed.ch (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 21:58:25 +0100 Subject: [Ronja] BSDified pktloss Message-ID: <4200818.1205787505163.JavaMail.root@viefep16> ---- Bruce M Simpson schrieb: > Here is the BSDified pktloss script. > > The main changes are to use bash from the environment, and to use > netstat for the counter retrieval. > > I tested this with a Twister v1, unfortunately it seems the receive path > didn't work when I tried to loopback across the RX and TX terminals > (1MHz idle pulse is fine and the HPWT lights up correctly).. yet to > double confirm with the scope. > > My twister2's need shift registers and inductors to get finished... but > that's another story. Is the /usr/bin/env portable on every Unix system? CL< CL< > > later > BMS From schneider2000 at web.de Mon Mar 17 22:39:09 2008 From: schneider2000 at web.de (Daniel Schneider) Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 23:39:09 +0100 Subject: [Ronja] Problem with RONJA In-Reply-To: <26114469.1205787373067.JavaMail.root@viefep16> References: <26114469.1205787373067.JavaMail.root@viefep16> Message-ID: <47DEF30D.20709@web.de> Yes I did the whole layout of Twister, Receiver and Transmitter onto PCBs and used SOIC and 0603 packages. My power supply is not over the coax cable, because I will do it over PowerOverEthernet. Right now I just use two laboratory power supply with 5V and 12 V. The connection between the Twister and the RX, TX is only 30cm long coax and for the power supply I use ribbon cable. For testing I use the TLWR 7600. I can send you in the next days pictures. Daniel Karel Kulhavy schrieb: > ---- Daniel Schneider schrieb: > >> Hi, >> >> I bulit the whole RONJA and during idle mode everything is allright. When I do the paketloss test or only the permanent 10Mhz with one Twister, one RX and one TX the data does not go through. If I disconect the receiver I can follow the data with an ocilloscope to the output of the receiver. If I plug it in again only the RX and the TX indication LEDs are flashing fast. >> Is there anyone who had problems like these or anyone who can help me??? >> Thanx a lot in advance! >> > > Did you do anything different from the instructions? Do you have pictures? > > CL< > >> Daniel >> >> _______________________________________________________________________ >> Jetzt neu! Sch?tzen Sie Ihren PC mit McAfee und WEB.DE. 30 Tage >> kostenlos testen. http://www.pc-sicherheit.web.de/startseite/?mc=022220 >> >> >> -- >> Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com >> Ronja at lists.pointless.net >> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja >> > > > From xask.linus at gmail.com Tue Mar 18 04:59:36 2008 From: xask.linus at gmail.com (Deepak Mishra) Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 10:29:36 +0530 Subject: [Ronja] electronics newbie question In-Reply-To: <3722a3330803150623m3b99779en69b5df2aaf69c515@mail.gmail.com> References: <21879686.1205580774868.JavaMail.root@viefep14> <3722a3330803150623m3b99779en69b5df2aaf69c515@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3722a3330803172159y2ea629ebs97f6f7ccd0da6376@mail.gmail.com> CAPACITOR SMD 0805 22p 2 *PLZ/ CONFIRM THE VOLTAGE* *18* CAPACITOR SMD 0805 10n 4 *19* CAPACITOR SMD 1206 100n 18 *20* CAPACITOR SMD 1206 1u/25V 7 *21* CAPACITOR SMD 1210 220n 3 *PLZ. CONFIRM THE VOLTAGE* *22* CAPACITOR ceramic 50V 47p 1 *PLZ. CONFIRM THE PACKAGE* *23* CAPACITOR ceramic 50V 270p 1 *PLZ. CONFIRM THE PACKAGE* *24* CAPACITOR ceramic 50V CM322522 SMD 1206 47nH 2 *PLZ. CONFIRM THE VOLTAGE* I mailed the component list to a supplier and he asks me to confirm the voltage of the capacitors ? Could you help me out ? Regards, Deepak -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20080318/878c430a/attachment.html From twibright at hispeed.ch Tue Mar 18 06:46:52 2008 From: twibright at hispeed.ch (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 7:46:52 +0100 Subject: [Ronja] Problem with RONJA Message-ID: <15756241.1205822812892.JavaMail.root@viefep16> ---- Daniel Schneider schrieb: > Yes I did the whole layout of Twister, Receiver and Transmitter onto PCBs and used SOIC and 0603 packages. My power supply is not over the That's a problem. The existing RX and TX PCB's that people did are not in Ronja officially also because there were some seriousl problems with stability. CL< > coax cable, because I will do it over PowerOverEthernet. Right now I > just use two laboratory power supply with 5V and 12 V. The connection > between the Twister and the RX, TX is only 30cm long coax and for the > power supply I use ribbon cable. For testing I use the TLWR 7600. I can > send you in the next days pictures. Daniel Karel Kulhavy schrieb: > ---- Daniel Schneider schrieb: > >> Hi, >> >> I bulit the whole RONJA and during idle mode everything is allright. When I do the paketloss test or only the permanent 10Mhz with one Twister, one RX and one TX the data does not go through. If I disconect the receiver I can follow the data with an ocilloscope to the output of the receiver. If I plug it in again only the RX and the TX indication LEDs are flashing fast. >> Is there anyone who had problems like these or anyone who can help me??? >> Thanx a lot in advance! >> > > Did you do anything different from the instructions? Do you have pictures? > > CL< > >> Daniel >> >> _______________________________________________________________________ >> Jetzt neu! Sch?tzen Sie Ihren PC mit McAfee und WEB.DE. 30 Tage >> kostenlos testen. http://www.pc-sicherheit.web.de/startseite/?mc=022220 >> >> >> -- >> Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com >> Ronja at lists.pointless.net >> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja >> > > > -- Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com Ronja at lists.pointless.net http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From twibright at hispeed.ch Tue Mar 18 06:49:28 2008 From: twibright at hispeed.ch (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 7:49:28 +0100 Subject: [Ronja] electronics newbie question Message-ID: <19666412.1205822968836.JavaMail.root@viefep16> ---- Deepak Mishra schrieb: > CAPACITOR SMD 0805 22p 2 *PLZ/ CONFIRM THE VOLTAGE* *18* CAPACITOR SMD > 0805 10n 4 *19* CAPACITOR SMD 1206 100n 18 *20* CAPACITOR SMD 1206 > 1u/25V 7 *21* CAPACITOR SMD 1210 220n 3 *PLZ. CONFIRM THE VOLTAGE* > *22* CAPACITOR ceramic 50V 47p 1 *PLZ. CONFIRM THE PACKAGE* *23* > CAPACITOR ceramic 50V 270p 1 *PLZ. CONFIRM THE PACKAGE* *24* > CAPACITOR ceramic > 50V > > CM322522 SMD 1206 47nH 2 *PLZ. CONFIRM THE VOLTAGE* > > I mailed the component list to a supplier and he asks me to confirm the > voltage of the capacitors ? > Could you help me out ? Put 16V everywhere. If they still have questions and suggest individual voltages they have, take the nearest above 16V they have. CL< > > Regards, > Deepak From twibright at hispeed.ch Tue Mar 18 06:52:24 2008 From: twibright at hispeed.ch (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 7:52:24 +0100 Subject: [Ronja] electronics newbie question Message-ID: <3882606.1205823144281.JavaMail.root@viefep16> ---- Deepak Mishra schrieb: > CAPACITOR SMD 0805 22p 2 *PLZ/ CONFIRM THE VOLTAGE* *18* CAPACITOR SMD > 0805 10n 4 *19* CAPACITOR SMD 1206 100n 18 *20* CAPACITOR SMD 1206 > 1u/25V 7 *21* CAPACITOR SMD 1210 220n 3 *PLZ. CONFIRM THE VOLTAGE* > *22* CAPACITOR ceramic 50V 47p 1 *PLZ. CONFIRM THE PACKAGE* *23* > CAPACITOR ceramic 50V 270p 1 *PLZ. CONFIRM THE PACKAGE* *24* > CAPACITOR ceramic > 50V > > CM322522 SMD 1206 47nH 2 *PLZ. CONFIRM THE VOLTAGE* It's funny they are asking for voltage for a coil. Maybe they didn't realize it's a coil when it's in nanohenries? It's this coil maybe you find some equivalent: https://www.distrelec.ch/ishopWebFront/search/luceneSearch.do;jsessionid=6DBB1A41B9A4976108CF6882024C85B3.chdist53?dispatch=find&showImage=on&artnrPhrase=&typePhrase=CM322522&keywordPhrase=&vendorPhrase= CL< > > I mailed the component list to a supplier and he asks me to confirm the > voltage of the capacitors ? > Could you help me out ? > > Regards, > Deepak From bms at incunabulum.net Tue Mar 18 11:15:00 2008 From: bms at incunabulum.net (Bruce M Simpson) Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 11:15:00 +0000 Subject: [Ronja] finding rx/tx casings - cutting 316L steel? Message-ID: <47DFA434.8000405@incunabulum.net> Hi, I scavenged a piece of stainless steel electrical conduit whilst out and about in London. Example link: http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=getProduct&R=4711669 75mm is the magic number, both the RX and TX modules fit into this width. Cutting it however is another matter. I believe it is 1.2mm 316L grade stainless steel. That doesn't sound like a lot to me, will a jigsaw with tungsten carbide blades be able to cope? cheers BMS From twibright at hispeed.ch Tue Mar 18 11:36:58 2008 From: twibright at hispeed.ch (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 12:36:58 +0100 Subject: [Ronja] finding rx/tx casings - cutting 316L steel? Message-ID: <23333750.1205840218803.JavaMail.root@viefep17> ---- Bruce M Simpson schrieb: > Hi, > > I scavenged a piece of stainless steel electrical conduit whilst out and > about in London. Example link: > > http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=getProduct&R=4711669 > > 75mm is the magic number, both the RX and TX modules fit into this width. > > Cutting it however is another matter. I believe it is 1.2mm 316L grade > stainless steel. > That doesn't sound like a lot to me, will a jigsaw with tungsten carbide > blades be able to cope? I don't know. Stainless is nasty. I would try plasma cutter (I like that it's like the erase tool in GIMP, just for steel), cut-off wheel or the jigsaw with the tungsten carbide you mention. That will be definitely harder than the material. Not sure however how big are your teeth if it cannot somehow jam. And what cutting speed you get. With stainless you don't have to bother painting the outer surface. The black paint still, but you can leave out the primer. Did you scavenge it from the standard London street skips? CL< > > cheers > BMS > > -- > Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From twibright at hispeed.ch Tue Mar 18 11:45:25 2008 From: twibright at hispeed.ch (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 12:45:25 +0100 Subject: [Ronja] finding rx/tx casings - cutting 316L steel? Message-ID: <32572337.1205840725362.JavaMail.root@viefep17> ---- Bruce M Simpson schrieb: > Hi, > > I scavenged a piece of stainless steel electrical conduit whilst out and > about in London. Example link: > > http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=getProduct&R=4711669 > > 75mm is the magic number, both the RX and TX modules fit into this width. Oh it's rectangular. Do you mean it for the case of the optical head or the case of the electronics? > > Cutting it however is another matter. I believe it is 1.2mm 316L grade > stainless steel. > That doesn't sound like a lot to me, will a jigsaw with tungsten carbide > blades be able to cope? I also once cut steel by setting a MIG welder to maximum current and minimum wire feed. Made a lot of light, smoke and rusty dust and just melted the steel away. That was because both the band saw and grinding worplace was full. But the lady who supervised the workshop said I shouldn't do it anymore that it damages the machine. I wonder why the machine allows setting a combo of parameters that damage it ;-) CL< From bms at incunabulum.net Tue Mar 18 11:46:33 2008 From: bms at incunabulum.net (Bruce M Simpson) Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 11:46:33 +0000 Subject: [Ronja] BSDified pktloss In-Reply-To: <4200818.1205787505163.JavaMail.root@viefep16> References: <4200818.1205787505163.JavaMail.root@viefep16> Message-ID: <47DFAB99.4080308@incunabulum.net> Karel Kulhavy wrote: > Is the /usr/bin/env portable on every Unix system? I believe so -- it's present in a lot of perl scripts out there. The main reason people advise against using env rather than hardcoding a path in the #! construct is security -- but folk aren't going to be running pktloss as a daemon on a security critical machine, right? ;-) cheers BMS From bms at incunabulum.net Tue Mar 18 11:57:30 2008 From: bms at incunabulum.net (Bruce M Simpson) Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 11:57:30 +0000 Subject: [Ronja] finding rx/tx casings - cutting 316L steel? In-Reply-To: <32572337.1205840725362.JavaMail.root@viefep17> References: <32572337.1205840725362.JavaMail.root@viefep17> Message-ID: <47DFAE2A.6060401@incunabulum.net> Karel Kulhavy wrote: > Oh it's rectangular. Do you mean it for the case of the optical head or the case > of the electronics? > Just for the heads... haven't dealt with the twister yet. Says here that "power hacksawing" is well within engineering limits for 300 series steels: http://www.ssina.com/view_a_file/fabricate.pdf I found the metal outside a house which was being renovated by a property developer, clearly left over from a new kitchen. I wonder if I can anneal it suitably for cutting with a heat gun -- I would prefer to borrow one of these, 'cause I was going to do experiments with recycling QFP SRAM chips from PII/PIII SECC cards for use as trace memory for minila.sourceforge.net, and I can't be arsed forking out the money for an SMD rework station yet. > > I also once cut steel by setting a MIG welder to maximum current and minimum > wire feed. Made a lot of light, smoke and rusty dust and just melted the steel away. That was because both the band > saw and grinding worplace was full. But the lady who supervised the workshop said I shouldn't do it anymore that it damages the machine. I wonder why the machine allows > setting a combo of parameters that damage it ;-) > I'm going to have to play with this kind of toy one day... I used an arc welder briefly once years and years ago. BMS From bms at incunabulum.net Thu Mar 20 11:01:47 2008 From: bms at incunabulum.net (Bruce M Simpson) Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 11:01:47 +0000 Subject: [Ronja] Twister1 not rx'ing Message-ID: <47E2441B.2060509@incunabulum.net> Hi, It appears the Twister (v1, not v2) is not receiving the optical signal correctly.. There was a bad connection on the board to the red LED, caused by my being a bit too rough with handling it during build, which I've corrected using teflon coated wire. However this hasn't cured the problem... So I've double confirmed that the receiver and transmitter modules work OK with the scope. The Twister transmits optically OK, I see the 1MHz idle pulse on the output. I'm using Ondrej Tesar's SMD design for the RX module. Hints? Tips? Where to start looking? BMS From bms at incunabulum.net Thu Mar 20 12:42:53 2008 From: bms at incunabulum.net (Bruce M Simpson) Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 12:42:53 +0000 Subject: [Ronja] Twister2 power problem Message-ID: <47E25BCD.7010809@incunabulum.net> I'm only seeing 0.82V on the output from the 2671M-5.0 (double checked at U66 and other test points). I am using the National Semiconductor version of this part. The chip and the schottkys, caps etc appear to be in the correct place. What could be the problem? Interestingly I see around 6.3V on pin 5. cheers BMS From bms at incunabulum.net Thu Mar 20 13:55:43 2008 From: bms at incunabulum.net (Bruce M Simpson) Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 13:55:43 +0000 Subject: [Ronja] Twister2 power problem In-Reply-To: <47E25BCD.7010809@incunabulum.net> References: <47E25BCD.7010809@incunabulum.net> Message-ID: <47E26CDF.3080708@incunabulum.net> Bruce M Simpson wrote: > I'm only seeing 0.82V on the output from the 2671M-5.0 (double checked > at U66 and other test points). > I am using the National Semiconductor version of this part. > > The chip and the schottkys, caps etc appear to be in the correct place. > What could be the problem? Interestingly I see around 6.3V on pin 5. > I just looked at the LM2671 data sheet and I see that it seems to be very, very picky about the inductors which it needs. I haven't, unfortunately, been able to obtain the exact parts in the Twister2 BoM here in the UK. I have mostly been sourcing parts through Farnell, however it looks like RS have a number of parts which they don't. When I drive the 5V line directly from an external regulated supply, the Twister2 idle pulse and transmit functions normally (confirmed with the scope). So it looks like the silicon is OK. I haven't verified the receive path yet. cheers BMS From twibright at hispeed.ch Thu Mar 20 18:08:45 2008 From: twibright at hispeed.ch (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 19:08:45 +0100 Subject: [Ronja] Twister2 power problem Message-ID: <20982502.1206036527974.JavaMail.root@viefep13> ---- Bruce M Simpson schrieb: > I'm only seeing 0.82V on the output from the 2671M-5.0 (double checked > at U66 and other test points). > I am using the National Semiconductor version of this part. > > The chip and the schottkys, caps etc appear to be in the correct place. > What could be the problem? Interestingly I see around 6.3V on pin 5. A short circuit on the output. CL< > > cheers > BMS > > -- > Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From twibright at hispeed.ch Thu Mar 20 18:10:05 2008 From: twibright at hispeed.ch (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 19:10:05 +0100 Subject: [Ronja] Twister2 power problem Message-ID: <273693.1206036605645.JavaMail.root@viefep13> ---- Bruce M Simpson schrieb: > Bruce M Simpson wrote: > > I'm only seeing 0.82V on the output from the 2671M-5.0 (double checked > > at U66 and other test points). > > I am using the National Semiconductor version of this part. > > > > The chip and the schottkys, caps etc appear to be in the correct place. > > What could be the problem? Interestingly I see around 6.3V on pin 5. > > > > I just looked at the LM2671 data sheet and I see that it seems to be > very, very picky about the inductors which it needs. > > I haven't, unfortunately, been able to obtain the exact parts in the > Twister2 BoM here in the UK. I have mostly been sourcing parts through > Farnell, however it looks like RS have a number of parts which they don't. So what did you put there instead? How much inductance? CL< > > When I drive the 5V line directly from an external regulated supply, the > Twister2 idle pulse and transmit functions normally (confirmed with the > scope). So it looks like the silicon is OK. I haven't verified the > receive path yet. > > cheers > BMS > > -- > Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From xask.linus at gmail.com Fri Mar 21 13:43:44 2008 From: xask.linus at gmail.com (Deepak Mishra) Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 19:13:44 +0530 Subject: [Ronja] Testing switching time of an LED Message-ID: <3722a3330803210643x459b5ae9w83d7b95afcb4132@mail.gmail.com> Hi all !, As always, I am having trouble find the LED HPWT-xxxx-xxxx. So I am going to test some LED manufactured in my country (India) easily available at low costs. I mainly want to test the rise/fall time of the LED and its not in the datasheet. I am an electronics newbie, so could somebody point me to an electronic circuit and a way to measure the rise and fall times of the LED ? Cheers, Deepak -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20080321/9df593e5/attachment.html From arunk at speedpost.net Fri Mar 21 13:53:55 2008 From: arunk at speedpost.net (Arun Krishnan) Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 19:23:55 +0530 Subject: [Ronja] Testing switching time of an LED In-Reply-To: <3722a3330803210643x459b5ae9w83d7b95afcb4132@mail.gmail.com> References: <3722a3330803210643x459b5ae9w83d7b95afcb4132@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1206107635.742.1243623687@webmail.messagingengine.com> Hi Deepak, You'll need to hook up the LED to a simple square wave generator and use a fast photodiode connected to a CRO to measure how fast it is switching. There are other methods where you could program something like a microcontroller to measure it, but the easier way would be to use a CRO. Regards, Arun ----- Original message ----- From: "Deepak Mishra" To: "Twibright Ronja" Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 19:13:44 +0530 Subject: [Ronja] Testing switching time of an LED Hi all !, As always, I am having trouble find the LED HPWT-xxxx-xxxx. So I am going to test some LED manufactured in my country (India) easily available at low costs. I mainly want to test the rise/fall time of the LED and its not in the datasheet. I am an electronics newbie, so could somebody point me to an electronic circuit and a way to measure the rise and fall times of the LED ? Cheers, Deepak From xask.linus at gmail.com Fri Mar 21 14:30:19 2008 From: xask.linus at gmail.com (Deepak Mishra) Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 20:00:19 +0530 Subject: [Ronja] Testing switching time of an LED In-Reply-To: <1206107635.742.1243623687@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <3722a3330803210643x459b5ae9w83d7b95afcb4132@mail.gmail.com> <1206107635.742.1243623687@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <3722a3330803210730r11ffe290hec83024fcbf58ba8@mail.gmail.com> Thanks , I had this basic idea in mind that I must apply a fast input square wave signal to the led and check the output using a scope on the photo diode. But the basic problem is I am such a new bie that I am not sure if i should connect the photo diode directly to the oscilloscope and with resistor in series or what ?? And how do i generate a square wave signal of the desired frequency ? I have heard of the 555 timer, do I have to use the breadboard ? I good with software, but not so good at hard ware, I hope you get the idea ? Thanks anyway! Cheers, Deepak On 21/03/2008, Arun Krishnan wrote: > > Hi Deepak, > > You'll need to hook up the LED to a simple square wave generator and use > a fast photodiode connected to a CRO to measure how fast it is > switching. There are other methods where you could program something > like a microcontroller to measure it, but the easier way would be to use > a CRO. > > Regards, > Arun > > > > ----- Original message ----- > From: "Deepak Mishra" > To: "Twibright Ronja" > Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 19:13:44 +0530 > Subject: [Ronja] Testing switching time of an LED > > Hi all !, > > As always, I am having trouble find the LED HPWT-xxxx-xxxx. > So I am going to test some LED manufactured in my country (India) easily > available at low costs. > > I mainly want to test the rise/fall time of the LED and its not in the > datasheet. > > I am an electronics newbie, so could somebody point me to an electronic > circuit and a way to measure > the rise and fall times of the LED ? > > Cheers, > Deepak > > > -- > Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20080321/cb5ab025/attachment.html From xask.linus at gmail.com Fri Mar 21 14:40:17 2008 From: xask.linus at gmail.com (Deepak Mishra) Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 20:10:17 +0530 Subject: [Ronja] Faster switching of the LED Message-ID: <3722a3330803210740v547824d1s6e279c631c826168@mail.gmail.com> Hi ! I was looking around the internet, when I found this - http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6TY5-3YRWB18-P&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=d0e66d4c232994d25c2a4c54ca295e33 It is a research paper published by Wayne State University, USA Abstract We have proposed a method of increasing the switching speed of a light-emitting diode by controlling the voltage across the device rather than the current through it. While the speed of conventional current-control methods is limited by the recombination processes in the active region, with their characteristic time being of the order of several nanoseconds, we have shown both analytically and numerically, that the characteristic time of the voltage-control method can be two orders of magnitude smaller. Such a speed is provided by a large pulsed current that rapidly removes excessive carriers from the active region if the device is being switched off, and injects them into the active region if the device is being switched on. I dont think RONJA already uses this. Could this be a final step towards a speed > 10mbps , may be 20 mbps if not 100 mbps I dont have access to this paper, could some one download and send it to the mailing list ? Regards, Deepak -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20080321/84a47f42/attachment.html From arunk at speedpost.net Fri Mar 21 14:41:48 2008 From: arunk at speedpost.net (Arun Krishnan) Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 20:11:48 +0530 Subject: [Ronja] Testing switching time of an LED In-Reply-To: <3722a3330803210730r11ffe290hec83024fcbf58ba8@mail.gmail.com> References: <3722a3330803210643x459b5ae9w83d7b95afcb4132@mail.gmail.com> <1206107635.742.1243623687@webmail.messagingengine.com> <3722a3330803210730r11ffe290hec83024fcbf58ba8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1206110508.8191.1243629663@webmail.messagingengine.com> Hi Deepak, I don't think a 555 can clock to the 10Mhz you'll need to test your LED at. But I'm thinking you can measure the rise and fall time just by a single pulse and a CRO that has enough resolution. Regards, Arun ----- Original message ----- From: "Deepak Mishra" To: "Twibright Ronja" Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 20:00:19 +0530 Subject: Re: [Ronja] Testing switching time of an LED Thanks , I had this basic idea in mind that I must apply a fast input square wave signal to the led and check the output using a scope on the photo diode. But the basic problem is I am such a new bie that I am not sure if i should connect the photo diode directly to the oscilloscope and with resistor in series or what ?? And how do i generate a square wave signal of the desired frequency ? I have heard of the 555 timer, do I have to use the breadboard ? I good with software, but not so good at hard ware, I hope you get the idea ? Thanks anyway! Cheers, Deepak On 21/03/2008, Arun Krishnan wrote: > > Hi Deepak, > > You'll need to hook up the LED to a simple square wave generator and use > a fast photodiode connected to a CRO to measure how fast it is > switching. There are other methods where you could program something > like a microcontroller to measure it, but the easier way would be to use > a CRO. > > Regards, > Arun > > > > ----- Original message ----- > From: "Deepak Mishra" > To: "Twibright Ronja" > Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 19:13:44 +0530 > Subject: [Ronja] Testing switching time of an LED > > Hi all !, > > As always, I am having trouble find the LED HPWT-xxxx-xxxx. > So I am going to test some LED manufactured in my country (India) easily > available at low costs. > > I mainly want to test the rise/fall time of the LED and its not in the > datasheet. > > I am an electronics newbie, so could somebody point me to an electronic > circuit and a way to measure > the rise and fall times of the LED ? > > Cheers, > Deepak > > > -- > Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > From xask.linus at gmail.com Fri Mar 21 15:17:01 2008 From: xask.linus at gmail.com (Deepak Mishra) Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 20:47:01 +0530 Subject: [Ronja] Testing switching time of an LED In-Reply-To: <1206110508.8191.1243629663@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <3722a3330803210643x459b5ae9w83d7b95afcb4132@mail.gmail.com> <1206107635.742.1243623687@webmail.messagingengine.com> <3722a3330803210730r11ffe290hec83024fcbf58ba8@mail.gmail.com> <1206110508.8191.1243629663@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <3722a3330803210817w475aa763ua78472aeaf962721@mail.gmail.com> Sorry man , but I do not know how to generate a pulse ! What signal source do I use ? I have no practical experience in electronics Regards, Deepak On 21/03/2008, Arun Krishnan wrote: > > Hi Deepak, > > I don't think a 555 can clock to the 10Mhz you'll need to test your LED > at. > > But I'm thinking you can measure the rise and fall time just by a single > pulse and a CRO that has enough resolution. > > > Regards, > Arun > > > ----- Original message ----- > From: "Deepak Mishra" > To: "Twibright Ronja" > > Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 20:00:19 +0530 > Subject: Re: [Ronja] Testing switching time of an LED > > Thanks , > I had this basic idea in mind that I must apply a fast input square wave > signal to the led and check the output using a scope on the photo diode. > > But the basic problem is I am such a new bie that I am not sure if i > should > connect > the photo diode directly to the oscilloscope and with resistor in series > or > what ?? > > And how do i generate a square wave signal of the desired frequency ? > I have heard of the 555 timer, do I have to use the breadboard ? > > I good with software, but not so good at hard ware, I hope you get the > idea > ? > > Thanks anyway! > Cheers, > Deepak > > > On 21/03/2008, Arun Krishnan wrote: > > > > Hi Deepak, > > > > You'll need to hook up the LED to a simple square wave generator and use > > a fast photodiode connected to a CRO to measure how fast it is > > switching. There are other methods where you could program something > > like a microcontroller to measure it, but the easier way would be to use > > a CRO. > > > > Regards, > > Arun > > > > > > > > ----- Original message ----- > > From: "Deepak Mishra" > > To: "Twibright Ronja" > > Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 19:13:44 +0530 > > Subject: [Ronja] Testing switching time of an LED > > > > Hi all !, > > > > As always, I am having trouble find the LED HPWT-xxxx-xxxx. > > So I am going to test some LED manufactured in my country (India) easily > > available at low costs. > > > > I mainly want to test the rise/fall time of the LED and its not in the > > datasheet. > > > > I am an electronics newbie, so could somebody point me to an electronic > > circuit and a way to measure > > the rise and fall times of the LED ? > > > > Cheers, > > Deepak > > > > > > -- > > Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com > > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > > > > -- > > Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20080321/97dab844/attachment-0001.html From pkyaduvanshi at gmail.com Fri Mar 21 15:49:52 2008 From: pkyaduvanshi at gmail.com (Pramod yaduvanshi) Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 21:19:52 +0530 Subject: [Ronja] Testing switching time of an LED In-Reply-To: <3722a3330803210817w475aa763ua78472aeaf962721@mail.gmail.com> References: <3722a3330803210643x459b5ae9w83d7b95afcb4132@mail.gmail.com> <1206107635.742.1243623687@webmail.messagingengine.com> <3722a3330803210730r11ffe290hec83024fcbf58ba8@mail.gmail.com> <1206110508.8191.1243629663@webmail.messagingengine.com> <3722a3330803210817w475aa763ua78472aeaf962721@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <50d3ad760803210849w67788ff8l491aa41ac8fbc713@mail.gmail.com> Dear Deepak , Then you are wrong person trying out your hand on ronja !! use a simple signal generator or fucntion generator to test the LED !! Which city are you in ? Superflux LED are available in India PK Yaduvanshi On 21/03/2008, Deepak Mishra wrote: > > Sorry man , but I do not know how to generate a pulse ! > What signal source do I use ? > I have no practical experience in electronics > > Regards, > Deepak > > On 21/03/2008, Arun Krishnan wrote: > > > > Hi Deepak, > > > > I don't think a 555 can clock to the 10Mhz you'll need to test your LED > > at. > > > > But I'm thinking you can measure the rise and fall time just by a single > > pulse and a CRO that has enough resolution. > > > > > > Regards, > > Arun > > > > > > ----- Original message ----- > > From: "Deepak Mishra" > > To: "Twibright Ronja" > > > > Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 20:00:19 +0530 > > Subject: Re: [Ronja] Testing switching time of an LED > > > > Thanks , > > I had this basic idea in mind that I must apply a fast input square wave > > signal to the led and check the output using a scope on the photo diode. > > > > But the basic problem is I am such a new bie that I am not sure if i > > should > > connect > > the photo diode directly to the oscilloscope and with resistor in series > > or > > what ?? > > > > And how do i generate a square wave signal of the desired frequency ? > > I have heard of the 555 timer, do I have to use the breadboard ? > > > > I good with software, but not so good at hard ware, I hope you get the > > idea > > ? > > > > Thanks anyway! > > Cheers, > > Deepak > > > > > > On 21/03/2008, Arun Krishnan wrote: > > > > > > Hi Deepak, > > > > > > You'll need to hook up the LED to a simple square wave generator and > > use > > > a fast photodiode connected to a CRO to measure how fast it is > > > switching. There are other methods where you could program something > > > like a microcontroller to measure it, but the easier way would be to > > use > > > a CRO. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Arun > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original message ----- > > > From: "Deepak Mishra" > > > To: "Twibright Ronja" > > > Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 19:13:44 +0530 > > > Subject: [Ronja] Testing switching time of an LED > > > > > > Hi all !, > > > > > > As always, I am having trouble find the LED HPWT-xxxx-xxxx. > > > So I am going to test some LED manufactured in my country (India) > > easily > > > available at low costs. > > > > > > I mainly want to test the rise/fall time of the LED and its not in the > > > datasheet. > > > > > > I am an electronics newbie, so could somebody point me to an > > electronic > > > circuit and a way to measure > > > the rise and fall times of the LED ? > > > > > > Cheers, > > > Deepak > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com > > > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com > > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > > > > -- > Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > -- Tel: +91 9940589851 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20080321/f6146321/attachment.html From xask.linus at gmail.com Fri Mar 21 16:12:53 2008 From: xask.linus at gmail.com (Deepak Mishra) Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 21:42:53 +0530 Subject: [Ronja] Testing switching time of an LED In-Reply-To: <50d3ad760803210849w67788ff8l491aa41ac8fbc713@mail.gmail.com> References: <3722a3330803210643x459b5ae9w83d7b95afcb4132@mail.gmail.com> <1206107635.742.1243623687@webmail.messagingengine.com> <3722a3330803210730r11ffe290hec83024fcbf58ba8@mail.gmail.com> <1206110508.8191.1243629663@webmail.messagingengine.com> <3722a3330803210817w475aa763ua78472aeaf962721@mail.gmail.com> <50d3ad760803210849w67788ff8l491aa41ac8fbc713@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3722a3330803210912p4a55f0e1q1a159deef072ce02@mail.gmail.com> You are probably right Pramod, But my aim like many other people trying to build RONJA is to get a GPLed communication system working for a specific purpose. and may be with some help from people like you I could learn some electronics ? I am in Ranchi, Kwality Photons in Delhi manufactures super flux LEDs, are HPWT-xxx available in India ? Cheers, Deepak On 21/03/2008, Pramod yaduvanshi wrote: > > Dear Deepak , > Then you are wrong person trying out your hand on ronja !! use a simple > signal generator or fucntion generator to test the LED !! > Which city are you in ? Superflux LED are available in India > PK Yaduvanshi > > > On 21/03/2008, Deepak Mishra wrote: > > > > Sorry man , but I do not know how to generate a pulse ! > > What signal source do I use ? > > I have no practical experience in electronics > > > > Regards, > > Deepak > > > > On 21/03/2008, Arun Krishnan wrote: > > > > > > Hi Deepak, > > > > > > I don't think a 555 can clock to the 10Mhz you'll need to test your > > > LED > > > at. > > > > > > But I'm thinking you can measure the rise and fall time just by a > > > single > > > pulse and a CRO that has enough resolution. > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > Arun > > > > > > > > > ----- Original message ----- > > > From: "Deepak Mishra" > > > To: "Twibright Ronja" > > > > > > Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 20:00:19 +0530 > > > Subject: Re: [Ronja] Testing switching time of an LED > > > > > > Thanks , > > > I had this basic idea in mind that I must apply a fast input square > > > wave > > > signal to the led and check the output using a scope on the photo > > > diode. > > > > > > But the basic problem is I am such a new bie that I am not sure if i > > > should > > > connect > > > the photo diode directly to the oscilloscope and with resistor in > > > series > > > or > > > what ?? > > > > > > And how do i generate a square wave signal of the desired frequency ? > > > I have heard of the 555 timer, do I have to use the breadboard ? > > > > > > I good with software, but not so good at hard ware, I hope you get the > > > idea > > > ? > > > > > > Thanks anyway! > > > Cheers, > > > Deepak > > > > > > > > > On 21/03/2008, Arun Krishnan wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Deepak, > > > > > > > > You'll need to hook up the LED to a simple square wave generator and > > > use > > > > a fast photodiode connected to a CRO to measure how fast it is > > > > switching. There are other methods where you could program something > > > > like a microcontroller to measure it, but the easier way would be to > > > use > > > > a CRO. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Arun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original message ----- > > > > From: "Deepak Mishra" > > > > To: "Twibright Ronja" > > > > Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 19:13:44 +0530 > > > > Subject: [Ronja] Testing switching time of an LED > > > > > > > > Hi all !, > > > > > > > > As always, I am having trouble find the LED HPWT-xxxx-xxxx. > > > > So I am going to test some LED manufactured in my country (India) > > > easily > > > > available at low costs. > > > > > > > > I mainly want to test the rise/fall time of the LED and its not in > > > the > > > > datasheet. > > > > > > > > I am an electronics newbie, so could somebody point me to an > > > electronic > > > > circuit and a way to measure > > > > the rise and fall times of the LED ? > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > Deepak > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com > > > > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > > > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com > > > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > > > > > > > > -- > > Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com > > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > > > > > > -- > Tel: +91 9940589851 > -- > Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20080321/446a81fe/attachment.html From twibright at hispeed.ch Sat Mar 22 07:48:29 2008 From: twibright at hispeed.ch (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2008 8:48:29 +0100 Subject: [Ronja] Testing switching time of an LED Message-ID: <11972890.1206172109562.JavaMail.root@viefep12> ---- Deepak Mishra schrieb: > Hi all !, > > As always, I am having trouble find the LED HPWT-xxxx-xxxx. > So I am going to test some LED manufactured in my country (India) easily > available at low costs. > > I mainly want to test the rise/fall time of the LED and its not in the > datasheet. > > I am an electronics newbie, so could somebody point me to an electronic > circuit and a way to measure > the rise and fall times of the LED ? I think all the high-intensity LEDs have the same chemistry and that basically determines the speed. I don't think you have to measure it. CL< > > Cheers, > Deepak From twibright at hispeed.ch Sat Mar 22 08:42:23 2008 From: twibright at hispeed.ch (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2008 9:42:23 +0100 Subject: [Ronja] Testing switching time of an LED Message-ID: <13024762.1206175343736.JavaMail.root@viefep12> Pramod yaduvanshi pkyaduvanshi at gmail.com wrote: > Dear Deepak , > Then you are wrong person trying out your hand on ronja !! use a simple Deepak don't worry, this isn't true at all. Ronja is meant to be built by anyone, regardless of his knowledge. As I wrote I think you don?t have to measure speed even if you get a different type than HPWT-BD00-F4000. Other manufacturer than Lumiled will however probably have less light output, since Lumileds seem to be the best in the world. Also you can get HPWT-BD00-F4000 from here: http://ronja.twibright.com/get/led.php CL< > signal generator or fucntion generator to test the LED !! > Which city are you in ? Superflux LED are available in India > PK Yaduvanshi From xask.linus at gmail.com Sat Mar 22 11:53:34 2008 From: xask.linus at gmail.com (Deepak Mishra) Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2008 17:23:34 +0530 Subject: [Ronja] Testing switching time of an LED In-Reply-To: <13024762.1206175343736.JavaMail.root@viefep12> References: <13024762.1206175343736.JavaMail.root@viefep12> Message-ID: <3722a3330803220453v1e3248dew288588a50a6be757@mail.gmail.com> Thanks Karel, I had a small chat with Pramod, he turns out to be a nice helpful person. I will probably meet him sometime to develop my electronics hobby skill. I will check out the superflux led available here. Cheers, Deepak On 22/03/2008, Karel Kulhavy wrote: > > Dear Deepak , > > Then you are wrong person trying out your hand on ronja !! use a simple > > Deepak don't worry, this isn't true at all. Ronja is meant to be built by > anyone, > regardless of his knowledge. > > As I wrote I think you don?t have to measure speed even if you get a > different type than > HPWT-BD00-F4000. Other manufacturer than Lumiled will however probably > have less light > output, since Lumileds seem to be the best in the world. > > Also you can get HPWT-BD00-F4000 from here: > http://ronja.twibright.com/get/led.php > > CL< > > -- > Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20080322/d338ce61/attachment.html From gullik.webjorn at flysta.net Sat Mar 22 12:44:22 2008 From: gullik.webjorn at flysta.net (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Gullik_Webj=F6rn?=) Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2008 13:44:22 +0100 Subject: [Ronja] Testing switching time of an LED In-Reply-To: <3722a3330803210817w475aa763ua78472aeaf962721@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I have used a single 74HC14 or 74AC14 or 74LVC14 inverter with a simple resistor between input and output and a small variable or fixed capacitor between input and ground. These oscillators are described in the data sheets. The single inverter drives remaining 5 inverters in parallell aka ronja driver, and their output to a resistor and then the LED under test. You can build this test ckt in 3 minutes. To measure, just use a pin diode, with a 50 ohm resistor close to the scope input. Anode to 50 ohm, cathode decoupled with 10 nF to ground, 5 V or so for bias. Gullik -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20080322/865bcd49/attachment.html From xask.linus at gmail.com Sat Mar 22 13:03:44 2008 From: xask.linus at gmail.com (Deepak Mishra) Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2008 18:33:44 +0530 Subject: [Ronja] Testing switching time of an LED In-Reply-To: References: <3722a3330803210817w475aa763ua78472aeaf962721@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3722a3330803220603oec117ean64c64050bde1568@mail.gmail.com> Thanks, finally a reply I was looking for. Cheers, Deepak On 22/03/2008, Gullik Webj?rn wrote: > > I have used a single 74HC14 or 74AC14 or 74LVC14 inverter with a simple > resistor between input and output > and a small variable or fixed capacitor between input and ground. These > oscillators are described in the > data sheets. The single inverter drives remaining 5 inverters in parallell > aka ronja driver, and their output > to a resistor and then the LED under test. You can build this test ckt in > 3 minutes. > > To measure, just use a pin diode, with a 50 ohm resistor close to the > scope input. Anode to 50 ohm, > cathode decoupled with 10 nF to ground, 5 V or so for bias. > > Gullik > > > > > -- > Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20080322/25a90ff5/attachment.html From twibright at hispeed.ch Sat Mar 22 19:52:56 2008 From: twibright at hispeed.ch (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2008 20:52:56 +0100 Subject: [Ronja] Getting Ronja parts Message-ID: <8678525.1206215576507.JavaMail.root@viefep12> I have improved the PIN chapter http://ronja.twibright.com/get/pin.php and added a 74HC133 chapter: http://ronja.twibright.com/get/133.php CL< From klapek at kki.net.pl Sun Mar 23 09:04:10 2008 From: klapek at kki.net.pl (Tomasz Koprowski) Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2008 10:04:10 +0100 Subject: [Ronja] Getting Ronja parts In-Reply-To: <8678525.1206215576507.JavaMail.root@viefep12> References: <8678525.1206215576507.JavaMail.root@viefep12> Message-ID: <200803231004.11206.klapek@kki.net.pl> On Saturday 22 of March 2008 20:52, Karel Kulhavy wrote: > I have improved the PIN chapter From the page: > Contact, support: Clock on the Internet Relay Chat.? 1998-2007 Karel ?Clock? > Kulhav? et al.. ^^^^^^^^^^ Hello, it's 2008 now, you know... ;) Regards, Tomek From xask.linus at gmail.com Sun Mar 23 10:33:52 2008 From: xask.linus at gmail.com (Deepak Mishra) Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2008 16:03:52 +0530 Subject: [Ronja] Faster data rate on RONJA Message-ID: <3722a3330803230333w5c1f62bbj7a08df4da0385d02@mail.gmail.com> Hi, Some people at Wayne Uni say - "We have proposed a method of increasing the switching speed of a light-emitting diode by controlling the voltage across the device rather than the current through it." This is the abstract of a paper from - http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6TY5-3YRWB18-P&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=d0e66d4c232994d25c2a4c54ca295e33 Is RONJA currently driving the LED by current variation or voltage variation ? Cheers, Deepak -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20080323/432c80bb/attachment.html From xask.linus at gmail.com Mon Mar 24 13:12:37 2008 From: xask.linus at gmail.com (Deepak Mishra) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 18:42:37 +0530 Subject: [Ronja] Optical Filter for better reception Message-ID: <3722a3330803240612m73116b5ckcfbf1060df644383@mail.gmail.com> Hi, I was wondering is adding an optical filter in the Rx module would help ? Inserting a band pass optical filter, after the lens, which would allow only a range of frequencies emitted by the LED to pass through, I think as a result of reducing the noise, it should increase the range. Has anyone tried this ? Cheers, Deepak -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20080324/4dd0e0ff/attachment.html From arunk at speedpost.net Mon Mar 24 13:59:55 2008 From: arunk at speedpost.net (Arun Krishnan) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 19:29:55 +0530 Subject: [Ronja] Optical Filter for better reception In-Reply-To: <3722a3330803240612m73116b5ckcfbf1060df644383@mail.gmail.com> References: <3722a3330803240612m73116b5ckcfbf1060df644383@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1206367195.5363.1243968429@webmail.messagingengine.com> Hi Deepak, Cheap optical filters have been tried and the result has been worse, not better. Cheap colour filters remove more useful bandwidth than noise. Any better and the result suddenly is not worth the investment. Regards, Arun ----- Original message ----- From: "Deepak Mishra" To: "Twibright Ronja" Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 18:42:37 +0530 Subject: [Ronja] Optical Filter for better reception Hi, I was wondering is adding an optical filter in the Rx module would help ? Inserting a band pass optical filter, after the lens, which would allow only a range of frequencies emitted by the LED to pass through, I think as a result of reducing the noise, it should increase the range. Has anyone tried this ? Cheers, Deepak From bms at incunabulum.net Tue Mar 25 08:30:32 2008 From: bms at incunabulum.net (Bruce M Simpson) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 08:30:32 +0000 Subject: [Ronja] Getting Ronja parts In-Reply-To: <8678525.1206215576507.JavaMail.root@viefep12> References: <8678525.1206215576507.JavaMail.root@viefep12> Message-ID: <47E8B828.2090701@incunabulum.net> Karel Kulhavy wrote: > I have improved the PIN chapter > http://ronja.twibright.com/get/pin.php > and added a 74HC133 chapter: > http://ronja.twibright.com/get/133.php > > CL< > > Farnell: Delivery Charge: ?15.95 once per order. 3 days delivery -ouch! RS are slightly less expensive, their range tax is 10 UKP. A better source in the UK might be Viewcom or ESR. cheers BMS From bms at incunabulum.net Tue Mar 25 08:35:59 2008 From: bms at incunabulum.net (Bruce M Simpson) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 08:35:59 +0000 Subject: [Ronja] Twister2 power problem In-Reply-To: <273693.1206036605645.JavaMail.root@viefep13> References: <273693.1206036605645.JavaMail.root@viefep13> Message-ID: <47E8B96F.5000109@incunabulum.net> Karel Kulhavy wrote: >> I just looked at the LM2671 data sheet and I see that it seems to be >> very, very picky about the inductors which it needs. >> >> I haven't, unfortunately, been able to obtain the exact parts in the >> Twister2 BoM here in the UK. I have mostly been sourcing parts through >> Farnell, however it looks like RS have a number of parts which they don't. >> > > So what did you put there instead? How much inductance? > Before I looked at the 'sheet, I tried a straight through jumper, and a premanufactured 100uH coil which I've been using for the RF suppression on the Twister1, TX and RX modules. The square SMD inductors on the BoM weren't available from Farnell. I believe they may be available from RS, so I'm saving up back-orders for the next time I go shopping. However none of the big guys here seem to have SOIC 74HC164... Haven't checked for output shorts yet... Yesterday I cut the 316L steel with the jigsaw I picked up the day before OK. Bending it to fit the modules is a PITA for sure, I embedded a TX module in a piece of 110mm drain pipe, and fixed the 100mm loupe in place with plumber's putty and hot glue. I need to go back to software land for a bit, so progress on this is slowing down. This is pretty much the only thing holding me back at the moment. The RX module I produced with Ondrej's SMD design and a laser printer works OK, but I'm out of etchant, and Maplin never seem to have ferric chloride in stock. cheers BMS From bms at incunabulum.net Tue Mar 25 08:38:08 2008 From: bms at incunabulum.net (Bruce M Simpson) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 08:38:08 +0000 Subject: [Ronja] Twister2 power problem In-Reply-To: <47E8B96F.5000109@incunabulum.net> References: <273693.1206036605645.JavaMail.root@viefep13> <47E8B96F.5000109@incunabulum.net> Message-ID: <47E8B9F0.6090305@incunabulum.net> Bruce M Simpson wrote: > The square SMD inductors on the BoM weren't available from Farnell. I > believe they may be available from RS, so I'm saving up back-orders for > the next time I go shopping. However none of the big guys here seem to > have SOIC 74HC164... > P.S. The little guys (47nH) were available, not the bigger guys. Though they are so small, they burn easily with a hot iron. I'm investigating toaster oven SMD reflow as an option, getting a toaster oven which will go to the magic 220 C figure in UK is easy! From bms at incunabulum.net Tue Mar 25 13:04:05 2008 From: bms at incunabulum.net (Bruce M Simpson) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 13:04:05 +0000 Subject: [Ronja] Testing switching time of an LED In-Reply-To: <3722a3330803210730r11ffe290hec83024fcbf58ba8@mail.gmail.com> References: <3722a3330803210643x459b5ae9w83d7b95afcb4132@mail.gmail.com> <1206107635.742.1243623687@webmail.messagingengine.com> <3722a3330803210730r11ffe290hec83024fcbf58ba8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <47E8F845.5090303@incunabulum.net> Deepak Mishra wrote: > I had this basic idea in mind that I must apply a fast input square > wave signal to the led and check the output using a scope on the photo > diode. > > But the basic problem is I am such a new bie that I am not sure if i > should connect > the photo diode directly to the oscilloscope and with resistor in > series or what ?? Build the RONJA Audiofire module. You still need to pass current across the PIN diode in order to have something to measure, other than resistance. You can connect the PIN diode to the 'scope directly if your probe is sensitive enough, I believe a standard X10 probe should be fine if your scope is calibrated correctly. > > And how do i generate a square wave signal of the desired frequency ? > I have heard of the 555 timer, do I have to use the breadboard ? Build the RONJA Hertz module. cheers BMS > > I good with software, but not so good at hard ware, I hope you get the > idea ? > > Thanks anyway! > Cheers, > Deepak > > > On 21/03/2008, *Arun Krishnan* > wrote: > > Hi Deepak, > > You'll need to hook up the LED to a simple square wave generator > and use > a fast photodiode connected to a CRO to measure how fast it is > switching. There are other methods where you could program something > like a microcontroller to measure it, but the easier way would be > to use > a CRO. > > Regards, > Arun > > > > ----- Original message ----- > From: "Deepak Mishra" > > To: "Twibright Ronja" > > Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 19:13:44 +0530 > Subject: [Ronja] Testing switching time of an LED > > Hi all !, > > As always, I am having trouble find the LED HPWT-xxxx-xxxx. > So I am going to test some LED manufactured in my country (India) > easily > available at low costs. > > I mainly want to test the rise/fall time of the LED and its not in the > datasheet. > > I am an electronics newbie, so could somebody point me to an > electronic > circuit and a way to measure > the rise and fall times of the LED ? > > Cheers, > Deepak > > > -- > Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > From bms at incunabulum.net Tue Mar 25 14:20:28 2008 From: bms at incunabulum.net (Bruce M Simpson) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 14:20:28 +0000 Subject: [Ronja] Twister2 power problem In-Reply-To: <20107042.1206435789116.JavaMail.root@viefep17> References: <20107042.1206435789116.JavaMail.root@viefep17> Message-ID: <47E90A2C.5070104@incunabulum.net> Karel Kulhavy wrote: >> This is pretty much the only thing holding me back at the moment. The RX >> module I produced with Ondrej's SMD design and a laser printer works OK, >> but I'm out of etchant, and Maplin never seem to have ferric chloride in >> stock. >> > > Maybe you can buy hydrochloric acid in a drugstore and nails at an ironmonger's and > throw them into the acid and wait until it doesn't dissolve any more? I guess > it should dissolve. And don't forget to place it outside to prevent hydrogen > gas accumulating in your home. > It's funny you mention it, this sounds very similar to Tom Gootee's etchant solution, 1 part H.Cl. to 2 parts H202:- http://www.fullnet.com/~tomg/gooteepc.htm I just went out and bought some "Spirits of Salt", as it is known here in the UK, which is Hydrochloric Acid at 32% concentration. I also got the 3% Hydrogen Peroxide. Both are available from any real chemist's shop, not the abominations known as "Superdrug", "Boots" etc which used to be chemists. Maplin continue to be out of stock of anything remotely useful, which is fast moving them into the same category, a sad but more general trend of high street stores seemingly being dumbed down in what they purport to deliver. I randomly found a plastic cereal container as I walked out of the house, I aleady found one on an allotment on Friday which I have recycled into a bubble etching tank using an aquarium pump.... cheers BMS From twibright at hispeed.ch Tue Mar 25 15:31:53 2008 From: twibright at hispeed.ch (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 16:31:53 +0100 Subject: [Ronja] Twister2 power problem Message-ID: <11325026.1206459115686.JavaMail.root@viefep17> ---- Bruce M Simpson schrieb: > Bruce M Simpson wrote: > > The square SMD inductors on the BoM weren't available from Farnell. I > > believe they may be available from RS, so I'm saving up back-orders for > > the next time I go shopping. However none of the big guys here seem to > > have SOIC 74HC164... > > > > P.S. The little guys (47nH) were available, not the bigger guys. Though > they are so small, they burn easily with a hot iron. What kind of iron are you using? I have a 125W soldering gun and can't remember burning anything. I did those 47nH with the gun as well. CL< > > I'm investigating toaster oven SMD reflow as an option, getting a > toaster oven which will go to the magic 220 C figure in UK is easy! From klapek at kki.net.pl Tue Mar 25 16:44:49 2008 From: klapek at kki.net.pl (Tomasz Koprowski) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 17:44:49 +0100 Subject: [Ronja] Twister2 power problem In-Reply-To: <47E90A2C.5070104@incunabulum.net> References: <20107042.1206435789116.JavaMail.root@viefep17> <47E90A2C.5070104@incunabulum.net> Message-ID: <200803251744.49487.klapek@kki.net.pl> On Tuesday 25 of March 2008 15:20, Bruce M Simpson wrote: > > Maybe you can buy hydrochloric acid in a drugstore and nails at an (...) > It's funny you mention it, this sounds very similar to Tom Gootee's > etchant solution, 1 part H.Cl. to 2 parts H202:- (...) I was wondering how do you dispose of your etchant after use? Some of the etchants that can be bought in electronic stores are really NastyStuff(TM) and shouldn't be simply poured down the sewer. Greetz, Tomek From twibright at hispeed.ch Tue Mar 25 18:33:34 2008 From: twibright at hispeed.ch (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 19:33:34 +0100 Subject: [Ronja] Twister2 power problem Message-ID: <9211119.1206470014515.JavaMail.root@viefep15> ---- Tomasz Koprowski schrieb: > On Tuesday 25 of March 2008 15:20, Bruce M Simpson wrote: > > > > Maybe you can buy hydrochloric acid in a drugstore and nails at an > > (...) > > > It's funny you mention it, this sounds very similar to Tom Gootee's > > etchant solution, 1 part H.Cl. to 2 parts H202:- > > (...) > > I was wondering how do you dispose of your etchant after use? Some of the > etchants that can be bought in electronic stores are really NastyStuff(TM) > and shouldn't be simply poured down the sewer. It consists of chlorine and iron atoms and water. Both occur in normal water naturally. Chlorine atoms occur in large amounts in table salt, iron atoms release from steel pipes. CL< From krepa at seznam.cz Tue Mar 25 20:01:54 2008 From: krepa at seznam.cz (Pavel Krejci) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 21:01:54 +0100 Subject: [Ronja] Twister2 power problem In-Reply-To: <9211119.1206470014515.JavaMail.root@viefep15> References: <9211119.1206470014515.JavaMail.root@viefep15> Message-ID: <47E95A32.7050206@seznam.cz> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20080325/a50e9c16/attachment.html From klapek at kki.net.pl Tue Mar 25 19:56:45 2008 From: klapek at kki.net.pl (Tomasz Koprowski) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 20:56:45 +0100 Subject: [Ronja] Twister2 power problem In-Reply-To: <9211119.1206470014515.JavaMail.root@viefep15> References: <9211119.1206470014515.JavaMail.root@viefep15> Message-ID: <200803252056.45527.klapek@kki.net.pl> On Tuesday 25 of March 2008 19:33, you wrote: > It consists of chlorine and iron atoms and water. Both occur in normal > water naturally. Chlorine atoms occur in large amounts in table salt, > iron atoms release from steel pipes. So that's safe. Thanx. What about sodium persulfate? It's the main ingredient of "B327", a common etchant sold here in Poland. Greetz, Tomek From Sordrag at gmx.de Wed Mar 26 10:40:12 2008 From: Sordrag at gmx.de (Sordrag at gmx.de) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 11:40:12 +0100 Subject: [Ronja] Twister2 U63-U65 Message-ID: <20080326104012.13300@gmx.net> Hi all! I'm trying to understand how the Twister works. My problem is the cascade of U63 to U65 (and also the one of U51 and U53). I don't get the idea behind this. I already read the FAQs but they were not enough. Can anyone explaine me in detail how the identification of data in the signal by the use of the cascades works? And why is there the OR (U54) before this cascade? It just works as an inverter and the signal gets inverted back thru U52. Is this necessary? And why are there after the RX discriminator (U51, U53) those two Schmitt Triggers of U52. I think if I do the hole cicuit on a PCB I have short wires so those Triggers aren't necessary!? Thx for your help. Greetz Sord -- Psssst! Schon vom neuen GMX MultiMessenger geh?rt? Der kann`s mit allen: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/multimessenger From Kocek.Kvetoslav at vestizol.cz Wed Mar 26 11:48:51 2008 From: Kocek.Kvetoslav at vestizol.cz (Kocek, Kvetoslav) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 12:48:51 +0100 Subject: [Ronja] Ronja webpage error Message-ID: <9EEB8AFFD3B57C42AD129ABCB9468972916EAC@czex01.cz.stankiewicz-group.net> http://ronja.twibright.com/sw.php Parse error: parse error in /home/clock/www/twibright.com/ronja/sw.php on line 5 -- Kosac From twibright at hispeed.ch Wed Mar 26 21:20:59 2008 From: twibright at hispeed.ch (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 22:20:59 +0100 Subject: [Ronja] Ronja webpage error Message-ID: <22978175.1206566459251.JavaMail.root@viefep12> ---- "Kocek schrieb: > > http://ronja.twibright.com/sw.php > > Parse error: parse error in /home/clock/www/twibright.com/ronja/sw.php > on line 5 Thanks, fixed. Actually before you managed to report it. CL< > > -- > Kosac > > -- > Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From twibright at hispeed.ch Wed Mar 26 22:16:51 2008 From: twibright at hispeed.ch (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 23:16:51 +0100 Subject: [Ronja] Replacing Chinese lenses Message-ID: <14663849.1206569812006.JavaMail.root@viefep12> Wikileaks has some new material. Attention - graphic content! "Censored Tibet March 2008 protest photos" http://wikileaks.org/leak/tibet-protest-photos/index.html Does anyone know about a non-Chinese source of glass lenses to replace the Chinese ones for Ronja? CL< From pkyaduvanshi at gmail.com Thu Mar 27 00:15:52 2008 From: pkyaduvanshi at gmail.com (Pramod yaduvanshi) Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 05:45:52 +0530 Subject: [Ronja] Replacing Chinese lenses In-Reply-To: <14663849.1206569812006.JavaMail.root@viefep12> References: <14663849.1206569812006.JavaMail.root@viefep12> Message-ID: <50d3ad760803261715w21157453t4f080cab20a8f530@mail.gmail.com> Yes I had tried out frennel lenses and they too work equally well !!! but I dont know who all maufacture them in Europe and other parts of the world ... as I had few unused pieces I used them for my purpose. Even glass lenses which I have finally used are Indian not Chinese make . PK Yaduvanshi On 27/03/2008, Karel Kulhavy wrote: > > Wikileaks has some new material. Attention - graphic content! > "Censored Tibet March 2008 protest photos" > http://wikileaks.org/leak/tibet-protest-photos/index.html > > Does anyone know about a non-Chinese source of glass lenses to replace the > Chinese ones for Ronja? > > CL< > > -- > Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20080327/7ac71e7d/attachment.html From gullik.webjorn at flysta.net Thu Mar 27 19:13:08 2008 From: gullik.webjorn at flysta.net (Gullik.webjorn) Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 20:13:08 +0100 Subject: [Ronja] Replacing Chinese lenses Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20080327/c876a825/attachment.html From asteri_x at freemail.hu Thu Mar 27 19:24:58 2008 From: asteri_x at freemail.hu (=?UTF-8?B?R3l1cmvDsyBNYXJ0aW4=?=) Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 20:24:58 +0100 Subject: [Ronja] Fast switching of strong LEDs Message-ID: <47EBF48A.9030200@freemail.hu> Hi Everyone! At work in future we need to pulse very bright light sources. Is there any experience, if switching 1A on an LED with 2 m distance to the current source is actually possible in 1..10us ? I managed to do it with 3 wires, and big capacitors and the current source directly at the lamps. But with current source at a distance? bye Martin From pkyaduvanshi at gmail.com Thu Mar 27 19:29:09 2008 From: pkyaduvanshi at gmail.com (Pramod yaduvanshi) Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 00:59:09 +0530 Subject: [Ronja] Fast switching of strong LEDs In-Reply-To: <47EBF48A.9030200@freemail.hu> References: <47EBF48A.9030200@freemail.hu> Message-ID: <50d3ad760803271229r2c785a52gf93e3f4ad90c98dc@mail.gmail.com> Whats the max switching speed you are looking at ? On 28/03/2008, Gyurk? Martin wrote: > > Hi Everyone! > > At work in future we need to pulse very bright light sources. > Is there any experience, if switching 1A on an LED with 2 m distance to > the current source is actually possible in 1..10us ? > > I managed to do it with 3 wires, and big capacitors and the current > source directly at the lamps. But with current source at a distance? > > bye > Martin > > -- > Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20080328/e7cde6a0/attachment.html From asteri_x at freemail.hu Thu Mar 27 19:39:02 2008 From: asteri_x at freemail.hu (=?UTF-8?B?R3l1cmvDsyBNYXJ0aW4=?=) Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 20:39:02 +0100 Subject: [Ronja] Fast switching of strong LEDs In-Reply-To: <50d3ad760803271229r2c785a52gf93e3f4ad90c98dc@mail.gmail.com> References: <47EBF48A.9030200@freemail.hu> <50d3ad760803271229r2c785a52gf93e3f4ad90c98dc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <47EBF7D6.9090700@freemail.hu> Actually it should be a flash for 1...10us. And we dont have the room for big capacitors, so we need to do it with 2 wires. Like this: currentsource->1m->LED->1m->currentsource Any experience? Pramod yaduvanshi ?rta: > Whats the max switching speed you are looking at ? > > On 28/03/2008, *Gyurk? Martin* > wrote: > > Hi Everyone! > > At work in future we need to pulse very bright light sources. > Is there any experience, if switching 1A on an LED with 2 m distance to > the current source is actually possible in 1..10us ? > > I managed to do it with 3 wires, and big capacitors and the current > source directly at the lamps. But with current source at a distance? > > bye > Martin > > -- > Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > From pkyaduvanshi at gmail.com Fri Mar 28 00:30:39 2008 From: pkyaduvanshi at gmail.com (Pramod yaduvanshi) Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 06:00:39 +0530 Subject: [Ronja] Fast switching of strong LEDs In-Reply-To: <47EBF7D6.9090700@freemail.hu> References: <47EBF48A.9030200@freemail.hu> <50d3ad760803271229r2c785a52gf93e3f4ad90c98dc@mail.gmail.com> <47EBF7D6.9090700@freemail.hu> Message-ID: <50d3ad760803271730k6612cdfas4a00f7c6c506bffa@mail.gmail.com> Hi , You can try and use H bridge circuit and flash it if 1...10us is all you are looking at . Just replace the stepper motors with your LED and use longer 2 wires .There are several H Bridge available commercially but you can build a simple one using high current Transistors !! PK Yaduvanshi Say like this On 28/03/2008, Gyurk? Martin wrote: > > Actually it should be a flash for 1...10us. > And we dont have the room for big capacitors, so we need to do it with 2 > wires. > Like this: > currentsource->1m->LED->1m->currentsource > Any experience? > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20080328/7ed3667e/attachment.html From twibright at hispeed.ch Fri Mar 28 08:16:46 2008 From: twibright at hispeed.ch (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 9:16:46 +0100 Subject: [Ronja] Replacing Chinese lenses Message-ID: <7736653.1206692207030.JavaMail.root@viefep17> > Hi Indian (and other) Ronja hackers, > I bought beautiful indian optical grade lenses (BK7) for about 4-5 USD each through a > school physics material supply house. > They have exact focal length, and are much better cromaticly through better glass. You > can replace a lens without adjustment > which you cannot with a lupe lens. What's the diameter of the lens and the manufacturer contact? Does it have a similar focal length like a magnifying glass? CL< From twibright at hispeed.ch Sat Mar 29 10:13:17 2008 From: twibright at hispeed.ch (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2008 11:13:17 +0100 Subject: [Ronja] Removing Ronja Wiki Message-ID: <2123041.1206785597470.JavaMail.root@viefep18> The Ronja Wiki is disabled and now I am extracting useful information and putting it on the Ronja website. I just did a list of pages that link to Ronja: http://ronja.twibright.com/link2ronja.php CL< From twibright at hispeed.ch Sat Mar 29 10:38:00 2008 From: twibright at hispeed.ch (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2008 11:38:00 +0100 Subject: [Ronja] Discharging used etchant into the toilet Message-ID: <2515208.1206787080518.JavaMail.root@viefep18> ---- Tomasz Koprowski schrieb: > On Tuesday 25 of March 2008 19:33, you wrote: > > > It consists of chlorine and iron atoms and water. Both occur in normal > > water naturally. Chlorine atoms occur in large amounts in table salt, > > iron atoms release from steel pipes. > > So that's safe. Thanx. What about sodium persulfate? It's the main ingredient > of "B327", a common etchant sold here in Poland. BTW I wonder how much copper actually leaches into water when using copper roofing. The copper oxidizes and I guess some of it gets leached out and flushed down the gutter. Especially with acidic rains from air pollution. Some water companies are picky however. I asked mine if I can discharge used denatured ethylalcohol and they said no. I wonder if vomiting into the toilet after consuming too much alcohol is forbidden too. They take nasty chemicals back in the apotheke however. CL< > > Greetz, > Tomek From asteri_x at freemail.hu Sat Mar 29 18:01:56 2008 From: asteri_x at freemail.hu (=?UTF-8?B?R3l1cmvDsyBNYXJ0aW4=?=) Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2008 19:01:56 +0100 Subject: [Ronja] Discharging used etchant into the toilet In-Reply-To: <2515208.1206787080518.JavaMail.root@viefep18> References: <2515208.1206787080518.JavaMail.root@viefep18> Message-ID: <47EE8414.4010501@freemail.hu> For how much? Karel Kulhavy ?rta: > They take nasty chemicals back in the apotheke however. > From twibright at hispeed.ch Sat Mar 29 18:39:36 2008 From: twibright at hispeed.ch (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2008 19:39:36 +0100 Subject: [Ronja] Discharging used etchant into the toilet Message-ID: <32480633.1206815976192.JavaMail.root@viefep18> ---- "Gyurk? Martin" schrieb: > For how much? For free. CL< Karel Kulhavy ?rta: > They take nasty chemicals back in the apotheke however. > -- Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com Ronja at lists.pointless.net http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From xask.linus at gmail.com Sun Mar 30 09:49:15 2008 From: xask.linus at gmail.com (Deepak Mishra) Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 14:19:15 +0530 Subject: [Ronja] DIL ICs instead of SMD Message-ID: <3722a3330803300149j7642658eu817a542c5f7918cb@mail.gmail.com> Hi, A lot of 74 series IC required for RONJA are easily available in DIL packages here, SMDs are difficult to find here. Is there some way the PCB files can be modified to use DIL ICs instead of SMD ICs ? Deepak -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20080330/1b498257/attachment.html From twibright at hispeed.ch Sun Mar 30 11:37:38 2008 From: twibright at hispeed.ch (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 12:37:38 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] DIL ICs instead of SMD Message-ID: <8875918.1206873458221.JavaMail.root@viefep18> ---- Deepak Mishra schrieb: > Hi, > > A lot of 74 series IC required for RONJA are easily available in DIL > packages here, SMDs are difficult to find here. > Is there some way the PCB files can be modified to use DIL ICs instead of > SMD ICs ? > > Deepak From twibright at hispeed.ch Sun Mar 30 11:41:28 2008 From: twibright at hispeed.ch (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 12:41:28 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] DIL ICs instead of SMD Message-ID: <32002250.1206873688601.JavaMail.root@viefep18> ---- Deepak Mishra schrieb: > Hi, > > A lot of 74 series IC required for RONJA are easily available in DIL > packages here, SMDs are difficult to find here. > Is there some way the PCB files can be modified to use DIL ICs instead of > SMD ICs ? Yes. Load http://ronja.twibright.com/schematics/twister2/twister2.pcb into PCB http://pcb.sourceforge.net/ and edit the chips you need. CL< > > Deepak From bms at incunabulum.net Sun Mar 30 11:52:39 2008 From: bms at incunabulum.net (Bruce M Simpson) Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 11:52:39 +0100 Subject: [Ronja] DIL ICs instead of SMD In-Reply-To: <3722a3330803300149j7642658eu817a542c5f7918cb@mail.gmail.com> References: <3722a3330803300149j7642658eu817a542c5f7918cb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <47EF70F7.6080003@incunabulum.net> Deepak Mishra wrote: > Hi, > > A lot of 74 series IC required for RONJA are easily available in DIL > packages here, SMDs are difficult to find here. > Is there some way the PCB files can be modified to use DIL ICs instead > of SMD ICs ? You could try the Twister1, if you can find the board -- it is all discrete logic in DIL. I inherited one from a friend however I'm not sure that its receive path is working, and it is no longer supported by Twibright Labs. The inverse is often true here -- it can be easier to find SMD logic in the UK, but it really depends on the distribution channels you use -- if you use a distributor who are hobbyist oriented, DIL is generally easier to find, although stocks are limited. It's in your interests to learn to work with SMD as soon as possible as it widens your options. cheers BMS From xask.linus at gmail.com Sun Mar 30 15:23:19 2008 From: xask.linus at gmail.com (Deepak Mishra) Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 19:53:19 +0530 Subject: [Ronja] DIL ICs instead of SMD In-Reply-To: <47EF70F7.6080003@incunabulum.net> References: <3722a3330803300149j7642658eu817a542c5f7918cb@mail.gmail.com> <47EF70F7.6080003@incunabulum.net> Message-ID: <3722a3330803300723j4d262944p5c775bd3c1dd8d5d@mail.gmail.com> Yeah, I am also trying to souce SMD ICs from some places. New Delhi does have good electronics shops where SMDs are available, I 'll check that. Cheers, Deepak On 30/03/2008, Bruce M Simpson wrote: > > Deepak Mishra wrote: > > Hi, > > > > A lot of 74 series IC required for RONJA are easily available in DIL > > packages here, SMDs are difficult to find here. > > Is there some way the PCB files can be modified to use DIL ICs instead > > of SMD ICs ? > > > You could try the Twister1, if you can find the board -- it is all > discrete logic in DIL. > I inherited one from a friend however I'm not sure that its receive path > is working, and it is no longer supported by Twibright Labs. > > The inverse is often true here -- it can be easier to find SMD logic in > the UK, but it really depends on the distribution channels you use -- if > you use a distributor who are hobbyist oriented, DIL is generally easier > to find, although stocks are limited. > > It's in your interests to learn to work with SMD as soon as possible as > it widens your options. > > cheers > BMS > > > -- > Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20080330/0680f6eb/attachment.html From twibright at hispeed.ch Sun Mar 30 20:19:13 2008 From: twibright at hispeed.ch (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 21:19:13 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] DIL ICs instead of SMD Message-ID: <28859908.1206904753525.JavaMail.root@viefep17> ---- Bruce M Simpson schrieb: > Deepak Mishra wrote: > > Hi, > > > > A lot of 74 series IC required for RONJA are easily available in DIL > > packages here, SMDs are difficult to find here. > > Is there some way the PCB files can be modified to use DIL ICs instead > > of SMD ICs ? > > You could try the Twister1, if you can find the board -- it is all > discrete logic in DIL. > I inherited one from a friend however I'm not sure that its receive path > is working, and it is no longer supported by Twibright Labs. That's not true. Twister is still supported by Twibright Labs. It has still the official page at http://ronja.twibright.com/twister/ It's also listed at http://ronja.twibright.com/modules_e.php > The inverse is often true here -- it can be easier to find SMD logic in > the UK, but it really depends on the distribution channels you use -- if > you use a distributor who are hobbyist oriented, DIL is generally easier > to find, although stocks are limited. > > It's in your interests to learn to work with SMD as soon as possible as > it widens your options. I don't know Deepak Mishra's interests (Bruce M. Simpson behaves as if he knew), but a fact is, that I can solder the Twister2 SMD (1.27mm pitch) in 8 seconds with a soldering gun. CL< > > cheers > BMS > > -- > Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From twibright at hispeed.ch Sun Mar 30 20:22:33 2008 From: twibright at hispeed.ch (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 21:22:33 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] DIL ICs instead of SMD Message-ID: <8089784.1206904953424.JavaMail.root@viefep17> ---- Deepak Mishra schrieb: > Yeah, I am also trying to souce SMD ICs from some places. New Delhi does > have good electronics shops where SMDs are available, I 'll check that. You could make Twister1 if it's a viable option. The only problem you get is increased EM interference. If you place Ronja next to a TV antenna people could complain. I did Twister2 because someone complained about this situation. In most other situations noone complained however. And Twister1 also takes more power because it has an inefficient regulator. CL< > > Cheers, > Deepak > > On 30/03/2008, Bruce M Simpson wrote: > > > > Deepak Mishra wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > > > A lot of 74 series IC required for RONJA are easily available in DIL > > > packages here, SMDs are difficult to find here. > > > Is there some way the PCB files can be modified to use DIL ICs instead > > > of SMD ICs ? > > > > > > You could try the Twister1, if you can find the board -- it is all > > discrete logic in DIL. > > I inherited one from a friend however I'm not sure that its receive path > > is working, and it is no longer supported by Twibright Labs. > > > > The inverse is often true here -- it can be easier to find SMD logic in > > the UK, but it really depends on the distribution channels you use -- if > > you use a distributor who are hobbyist oriented, DIL is generally easier > > to find, although stocks are limited. > > > > It's in your interests to learn to work with SMD as soon as possible as > > it widens your options. > > > > cheers > > BMS > > > > > > -- > > Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com > > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > From bms at incunabulum.net Mon Mar 31 01:55:41 2008 From: bms at incunabulum.net (Bruce M Simpson) Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 01:55:41 +0100 Subject: [Ronja] DIL ICs instead of SMD In-Reply-To: <28859908.1206904753525.JavaMail.root@viefep17> References: <28859908.1206904753525.JavaMail.root@viefep17> Message-ID: <47F0368D.90708@incunabulum.net> Karel Kulhavy wrote: > That's not true. Twister is still supported by Twibright Labs. It has still the > official page at http://ronja.twibright.com/twister/ > It's also listed at http://ronja.twibright.com/modules_e.php > Thanks for the correction, and sorry for the confusion! I was under the impression that it wasn't actively supported because the board didn't seem to be available. I have not seen the TV interference problems with DVB-T in the UK, BTW. >> It's in your interests to learn to work with SMD as soon as possible as >> it widens your options. >> > > I don't know Deepak Mishra's interests (Bruce M. Simpson behaves as if he knew), but a fact is, that I can solder the Twister2 SMD (1.27mm pitch) in 8 seconds with a soldering > gun. > Don't get me wrong, not trying to put words in anyone's mouths -- just saying that SMD has worked out really well for me, and surely Deepak (or anyone else for that matter) could only benefit from having a wider choice of components to choose from. P.S. Once upon a time, I was scared that I couldn't solder anything, let alone SMD. cheers BMS