From pkyaduvanshi at gmail.com  Sat Feb  2 13:20:33 2008
From: pkyaduvanshi at gmail.com (Pramod yaduvanshi)
Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2008 18:50:33 +0530
Subject: [Ronja] final 350mA transmitter
Message-ID: <50d3ad760802020520k65437146j8d006bf7771a69e9@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all ... please check out my blog now .. after i have made the circuit on
PCB and using proper coaxial cables and filtered the inout power supply .
http://luxeonstar.blogspot.com/
-- 
Tel: +91 9940589851
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20080202/062c8321/attachment.html 

From ladmanj at volny.cz  Sat Feb  2 17:57:58 2008
From: ladmanj at volny.cz (Jakub Ladman)
Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2008 18:57:58 +0100
Subject: [Ronja] final 350mA transmitter
In-Reply-To: <50d3ad760802020520k65437146j8d006bf7771a69e9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <50d3ad760802020520k65437146j8d006bf7771a69e9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200802021857.58930.ladmanj@volny.cz>

Dne Saturday 02 February 2008 14:20:33 Pramod yaduvanshi napsal(a):
> Hi all ... please check out my blog now .. after i have made the circuit on
> PCB and using proper coaxial cables and filtered the inout power supply .
> http://luxeonstar.blogspot.com/

I think even coaxial cable to led is bad.
It reduces EMI polution, but the inductance of wires is high, so fast current 
changes are impossible.
Place the LED as close to driver ic as possible.
Then try some data flow test and tell us the distance from transmitter to 
receiver, where is not any packet loss yet.
A standard ronja distance is about two meters, which corresponds to 1400m with 
optics.

Jakub Ladman


From xchmelmilos at gmail.com  Sat Feb  2 18:34:26 2008
From: xchmelmilos at gmail.com (milos chmel)
Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2008 19:34:26 +0100
Subject: [Ronja] golay code
Message-ID: <2ed0866e0802021034h594e72b3sba193f30e4367eae@mail.gmail.com>

hi,
i just realized that,
y=-1; /* 0xffff */
for(i=0;i<5;++i)
   y^=1<<(dodekahedron[i]-1);

equals to

y=0;
for(i=0;i<5;++i)
   y|=1<<(dodekahedron[][i]-1); /* shift 1 to positions */
y=~y;

....
0xff==(unsigned)-1 ^ 12 clears place where 12 has 1' bits
dodekahedron[][i] ~= dodekahedron[][j] <=> i~=j

xor table
------------
1 1 0
0 0 0
1 0 1
0 1 1

hope it helps somehow
-- 
"Brevity is the soul of wit." by William Shakespeare
"Debugging is twice as hard as writing the program, so if you write
the program as cleverly as you can, by definition, you won't be clever
enough to debug it." - Kernighans law


From hybrid.parameter at yahoo.com  Sat Feb  2 20:06:55 2008
From: hybrid.parameter at yahoo.com (Saad Shakeel)
Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2008 12:06:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Ronja] final 350mA transmitter
In-Reply-To: <200802021857.58930.ladmanj@volny.cz>
Message-ID: <468050.82495.qm@web44902.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

 Good work, We've all been looking for some alternative...
   
   Can you include the schematic of the circuit  on your blog too.
   
  You've mentioned 74hc245, but the pic has some other components too? 
   
  Thanks
   
  Saad

Jakub Ladman <ladmanj at volny.cz> wrote:
  Dne Saturday 02 February 2008 14:20:33 Pramod yaduvanshi napsal(a):
> Hi all ... please check out my blog now .. after i have made the circuit on
> PCB and using proper coaxial cables and filtered the inout power supply .
> http://luxeonstar.blogspot.com/

I think even coaxial cable to led is bad.
It reduces EMI polution, but the inductance of wires is high, so fast current 
changes are impossible.
Place the LED as close to driver ic as possible.
Then try some data flow test and tell us the distance from transmitter to 
receiver, where is not any packet loss yet.
A standard ronja distance is about two meters, which corresponds to 1400m with 
optics.

Jakub Ladman

-- 
Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com
Ronja at lists.pointless.net
http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


       
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20080202/6c880f8e/attachment.html 

From ronjalist at vitalit.co.uk  Fri Feb  8 03:11:12 2008
From: ronjalist at vitalit.co.uk (matt)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 03:11:12 +0000
Subject: [Ronja] Analogue silly question...
Message-ID: <25604380.321202440272323.JavaMail.root@scalix>

Hi all,
Before I even ask it I know this must be a stupid question....

The issue of using analogue transmission has been asked and answered before.

My question however is thus :-

Is is not possible to hack apart a wireless access point (a GPL friendly one such as the wrt54gl) and drive the laser from the radio interface's tx and interface the rx ?

This should resolve the power calibration issues as this will have already been designed for in the radio interface.

Could this not provide a cheap way to get faster (22meg+) links ?

Now please tell me where I've gone wrong ......

Cheers

Matt



From twibright at hispeed.ch  Fri Feb  8 11:21:06 2008
From: twibright at hispeed.ch (twibright at hispeed.ch)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 12:21:06 +0100
Subject: [Ronja] Be careful with chimneys
Message-ID: <20080208112106.IZBB29152.viefep27-int.chello.at@www-05.tornado.cablecom.ch>

Be careful when installing Ronja on or around chimneys to not block the chimney opening. 

Here someone in Germany put some kind of carton over chimney to prevent rain from pouring down the chimney and a gravid lady died and her husband was seriously injured because carbon monoxide stacked in their apartnemt (unfortunately in German only):

http://www.20min.ch/news/kreuz_und_quer/story/27176209

CL<


From ronjalist at vitalit.co.uk  Fri Feb  8 04:37:55 2008
From: ronjalist at vitalit.co.uk (matt)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 04:37:55 +0000
Subject: [Ronja] Analogue silly question...
Message-ID: <2044542.431202445475450.JavaMail.root@scalix>

I understand that ronja currently uses a pulsed encoding that means that you cannot push ofdm over it as is.

My question is more a can you not drive the laser in varying strengths ?

My understanding of the limitations are that they are in the "how do you know what power you should have" at the receiver as a baseline for decoding an analogue encoded transmission.

It's my thinking that this problem has already been solved with the wifi radio design.

So can the rx and tx of a ronja "like" system be analogue ?

If so does the encoding present any speed benefits or greater "spectrum" efficiency ?

I know nothing and every question I ask proves it.

Cheers

Matt

----- Original Message -----
From: Patrick Deelman <morphje at morphje.nl>
Sent: Fri, 8/2/2008 04:26
To: matt <matt at vitalit.co.uk> ; Twibright Ronja <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
Subject: Re: [Ronja] Analogue silly question...

matt wrote:
> Hi all,
> Before I even ask it I know this must be a stupid question....
>
> The issue of using analogue transmission has been asked and answered before.
>
> My question however is thus :-
>
> Is is not possible to hack apart a wireless access point (a GPL friendly one such as the wrt54gl) and drive the laser from the radio interface's tx and interface the rx ?
>
> This should resolve the power calibration issues as this will have already been designed for in the radio interface.
>
> Could this not provide a cheap way to get faster (22meg+) links ?
>
> Now please tell me where I've gone wrong ......
>
> Cheers
>
> Matt
>
>
>?? 
This will not work, since a 802.11g access point uses OFDM for the 
modulation of the signal, this is incompatible with ronja. Also signal 
feedback for power calibration (for reducing link speed) will not work, 
since this is indended to work with radio signals and not ronja, simply 
because with ronja you get it all or you get nothing. With radio signals 
you get more when the signal strength increases, thus less noise, so you 
can modulate more on the frequency.

Regards,
Patrick



From ronjalist at vitalit.co.uk  Fri Feb  8 08:29:17 2008
From: ronjalist at vitalit.co.uk (matt)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 08:29:17 +0000
Subject: [Ronja] Analogue silly question...
Message-ID: <28465402.481202459357005.JavaMail.root@scalix>

I understand that ronja currently uses a pulsed encoding that means that you cannot push ofdm over it as is.

My question is more a can you not drive the laser in varying strengths ?

My
understanding of the limitations are that they are in the "how do you
know what power you should have" at the receiver as a baseline for
decoding an analogue encoded transmission.

It's my thinking that this problem has already been solved with the wifi radio design.

So can the rx and tx of a ronja "like" system be analogue ?

If so does the encoding present any speed benefits or greater "spectrum" efficiency ?

I know nothing and every question I ask proves it.

Cheers

Matt

P.S.
On further reading I realise that the maximum available bandwidth for the tx design is currently about 16Mhz - just enough for 10Meg.

With analogue using 50% power as the centre of the frequency with +/- 25% as the gives a required change of 50% which should increase the bandwidth to 32Mhz (with 54g @ 20Meg needing 22Mhz).

As far as I can see the limit would be with the rx unit sensitivity..........

----- Original Message -----
From: Patrick Deelman <morphje at morphje.nl>
Sent: Fri, 8/2/2008 04:26
To: matt <matt at vitalit.co.uk> ; Twibright Ronja <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
Subject: Re: [Ronja] Analogue silly question...

matt wrote:
> Hi all,
> Before I even ask it I know this must be a stupid question....
>
> The issue of using analogue transmission has been asked and answered before.
>
> My question however is thus :-
>
> Is is not possible to hack apart a wireless access point (a GPL friendly one such as the wrt54gl) and drive the laser from the radio interface's tx and interface the rx ?
>
> This should resolve the power calibration issues as this will have already been designed for in the radio interface.
>
> Could this not provide a cheap way to get faster (22meg+) links ?
>
> Now please tell me where I've gone wrong ......
>
> Cheers
>
> Matt
>
>
>?? 
This will not work, since a 802.11g access point uses OFDM for the 
modulation of the signal, this is incompatible with ronja. Also signal 
feedback for power calibration (for reducing link speed) will not work, 
since this is indended to work with radio signals and not ronja, simply 
because with ronja you get it all or you get nothing. With radio signals 
you get more when the signal strength increases, thus less noise, so you 
can modulate more on the frequency.

Regards,
Patrick



From hybrid.parameter at yahoo.com  Mon Feb 11 18:53:31 2008
From: hybrid.parameter at yahoo.com (Saad Shakeel)
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 10:53:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Ronja] SFH 495 as alternate IR transmitter?
In-Reply-To: <20080208112106.IZBB29152.viefep27-int.chello.at@www-05.tornado.cablecom.ch>
Message-ID: <65287.94724.qm@web44901.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Hey everyone,
   
  I'd like your opinion about the possibility of using a SFH 495 IR diode.
  http://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/view/45680/SIEMENS/SFH495P.html
   
  It has a rise time of 7ns and a half angle of 30 degrees at 2.1 volts.
   
  Please let me know if this may be used as an alternate to HSDL-4230.
   
  Thanks
   
   
  Saad
   
   
  P.S.
   
  I found some shopkeepers here selling used 74hc133s... 
  Any idea from where they might have extracted those? And would they still be reliable to work with?

       
---------------------------------
Looking for last minute shopping deals?  Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20080211/de61598e/attachment.html 

From arunk at speedpost.net  Tue Feb 12 11:36:01 2008
From: arunk at speedpost.net (Arun Krishnan)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 17:06:01 +0530
Subject: [Ronja] SFH 495 as alternate IR transmitter?
In-Reply-To: <65287.94724.qm@web44901.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
References: <65287.94724.qm@web44901.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1202816161.8483.1236407757@webmail.messagingengine.com>

Hey Saad,

You can never completely trust used parts. Best you could do is buy a
lot of extras and then test each of them before using them. Since they
are next to impossible to find, I'm open to using any I can find.

Regards the IR diode, someone else more knowledgeable than me will reply
:)

Regards,
Arun


----- Original message -----
From: "Saad Shakeel" <hybrid.parameter at yahoo.com>
To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 10:53:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: {SPAM 05.8} [Ronja] SFH 495 as alternate IR transmitter?

Hey everyone,
   
  I'd like your opinion about the possibility of using a SFH 495 IR
  diode.
  http://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/view/45680/SIEMENS/SFH495P.html
   
  It has a rise time of 7ns and a half angle of 30 degrees at 2.1 volts.
   
  Please let me know if this may be used as an alternate to HSDL-4230.
   
  Thanks
   
   
  Saad
   
   
  P.S.
   
  I found some shopkeepers here selling used 74hc133s... 
  Any idea from where they might have extracted those? And would they
  still be reliable to work with?

       
---------------------------------
Looking for last minute shopping deals?  Find them fast with Yahoo!
Search.


From twibright at hispeed.ch  Wed Feb 13 11:00:39 2008
From: twibright at hispeed.ch (twibright at hispeed.ch)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:00:39 +0100
Subject: [Ronja] SFH 495 as alternate IR transmitter?
Message-ID: <20080213110039.KJHX28299.viefep27-int.chello.at@www-02.tornado.cablecom.ch>

>I found some shopkeepers here selling used 74hc133s... </div>  <div>Any idea from where they might have extracted those? And would they still be reliable to work with?</div><p> 

You can use them if they were pulled out from sockets, i. e. not soldered and absolute maximum ratings were not exceeded during their lifetime.

If they are desoldered, do not use them. The Ronja manual says always: "Use new components, not desoldered". AFAIK
desoldered components can be easily unreliable.

CL<


From markus at b-r-e-c-h-t-e-l.net  Wed Feb 13 13:09:58 2008
From: markus at b-r-e-c-h-t-e-l.net (Markus Brechtel)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 14:09:58 +0100
Subject: [Ronja] Analogue silly question...
In-Reply-To: <28465402.481202459357005.JavaMail.root@scalix>
References: <28465402.481202459357005.JavaMail.root@scalix>
Message-ID: <a8a678bf0802130509oa501e17rfa0e7ceb22673b7c@mail.gmail.com>

I don't know if this helps, but in openwrt the router can be
configured in such a way, that the wlan-device sends from one adaptor
and recieves from the other. See options txantenna and rxantenna.

-- 
Mit freundlichen Gr??en


Markus Brechtel

Postfach 1153
64801 Dieburg

Telefon: 06071820923
Telefax: 06071820922
Jabber: chaotika at jabber.ccc.de
ICQ: 200180584

From hybrid.parameter at yahoo.com  Thu Feb 14 04:36:00 2008
From: hybrid.parameter at yahoo.com (Saad Shakeel)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 20:36:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Ronja] Calling Mr. Ondrej Tesar
In-Reply-To: <1202816161.8483.1236407757@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <122060.13654.qm@web44901.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Mr. Ondrej Tesar,
   
  If you are in this forum, please do reply, as i've tried countless times to contact you at your email address but with no response. 
   
  If anyone else knows Mr. Ondrej Tesar, would they be kind enough to draw  his attention to this mail.
   
  Thanks
   
   
  Saad

       
---------------------------------
Looking for last minute shopping deals?  Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20080213/65b42ab2/attachment.html 

From krepa at seznam.cz  Thu Feb 14 08:17:42 2008
From: krepa at seznam.cz (=?us-ascii?Q?Pavel=20Krejci?=)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 09:17:42 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [Ronja] Calling Mr. Ondrej Tesar
In-Reply-To: <122060.13654.qm@web44901.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4919.13103-3925-2036956191-1202977062@seznam.cz>

Saad,
Ondrej is not available till end of June (he is abroad). I will try to let him know. Most likely your e-mail was detected as a spam. It happens to yahoo.com users often here.

PK.
-------------- next part --------------
An embedded message was scrubbed...
From: =?us-ascii?Q?Saad=20Shakeel?= <hybrid.parameter at yahoo.com>
Subject: =?us-ascii?Q?=5BRonja=5D=20Calling=20Mr=2E=20Ondrej=20Tesar?=
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 05:36:00 +0100 (CET)
Size: 4790
Url: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20080214/101dd8a6/attachment.mht 

From cd930 at centrum.cz  Thu Feb 14 08:34:12 2008
From: cd930 at centrum.cz (CD930)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 09:34:12 +0100
Subject: [Ronja] Calling Mr. Ondrej Tesar
References: <4919.13103-3925-2036956191-1202977062@seznam.cz>
Message-ID: <002701c86ee4$5ff9e2b0$0101a8c0@Martindoma>

Hi Saad,
you can calling to him GSM phone: +420 776 760171   or sending SMS.

Martin  OK1MJO




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Pavel Krejci" <krepa na seznam.cz>
To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja na lists.pointless.net>
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 9:17 AM
Subject: Re: [Ronja] Calling Mr. Ondrej Tesar


> Saad,
> Ondrej is not available till end of June (he is abroad). I will try to let 
> him know. Most likely your e-mail was detected as a spam. It happens to 
> yahoo.com users often here.
>
> PK.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


> -- 
> Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com
> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 



From hybrid.parameter at yahoo.com  Thu Feb 14 15:32:13 2008
From: hybrid.parameter at yahoo.com (Saad Shakeel)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 07:32:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Ronja] Calling Mr. Ondrej Tesar
In-Reply-To: <002701c86ee4$5ff9e2b0$0101a8c0@Martindoma>
Message-ID: <77033.42682.qm@web44905.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>


Thanks CD930 and Pavel Krejci, I'll try to call on his number.
   
  Regards,
   
  Saad
   
  
CD930 <cd930 at centrum.cz> wrote:
  Hi Saad,
you can calling to him GSM phone: +420 776 760171 or sending SMS.

Martin OK1MJO




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Pavel Krejci" 
To: "Twibright Ronja" 
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 9:17 AM
Subject: Re: [Ronja] Calling Mr. Ondrej Tesar


> Saad,
> Ondrej is not available till end of June (he is abroad). I will try to let 
> him know. Most likely your e-mail was detected as a spam. It happens to 
> yahoo.com users often here.
>
> PK.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


> -- 
> Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 


-- 
Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com
Ronja at lists.pointless.net
http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


       
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20080214/73ea01f4/attachment.html 

From hybrid.parameter at yahoo.com  Mon Feb 18 19:25:42 2008
From: hybrid.parameter at yahoo.com (Saad Shakeel)
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 11:25:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Ronja] Anyone with HPWT-BD00-f4000?
In-Reply-To: <002701c86ee4$5ff9e2b0$0101a8c0@Martindoma>
Message-ID: <991912.35350.qm@web44910.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Hello everyone,
   
  I've  tried contacting Ondrej Tesar on his email and on his mobile.... but no reply from either one,,,
   
  Is their anyone else here who might have this led with him, or even the hsdl-4230??
   
  And does the ronja shop that sells PCB have these leds too?
   
  Thanks All,
   
  Saad

CD930 <cd930 at centrum.cz> wrote:
  Hi Saad,
you can calling to him GSM phone: +420 776 760171 or sending SMS.

Martin OK1MJO




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Pavel Krejci" 
To: "Twibright Ronja" 
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 9:17 AM
Subject: Re: [Ronja] Calling Mr. Ondrej Tesar


> Saad,
> Ondrej is not available till end of June (he is abroad). I will try to let 
> him know. Most likely your e-mail was detected as a spam. It happens to 
> yahoo.com users often here.
>
> PK.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


> -- 
> Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 


-- 
Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com
Ronja at lists.pointless.net
http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


       
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20080218/d812fc7e/attachment.html 

From bms at incunabulum.net  Mon Feb 18 20:35:44 2008
From: bms at incunabulum.net (Bruce M Simpson)
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 20:35:44 +0000
Subject: [Ronja] Anyone with HPWT-BD00-f4000?
In-Reply-To: <991912.35350.qm@web44910.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
References: <991912.35350.qm@web44910.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <47B9EC20.7010402@incunabulum.net>

Saad Shakeel wrote:
> Is their anyone else here who might have this led with him, or even 
> the hsdl-4230??

I only have low power HPWTs, but I have lots of them. I have the 
hsdl-4220. The 4230 was available from Farnell last I checked.



From cd930 at centrum.cz  Tue Feb 19 04:17:29 2008
From: cd930 at centrum.cz (CD930)
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 05:17:29 +0100
Subject: [Ronja] Anyone with HPWT-BD00-f4000?
References: <991912.35350.qm@web44910.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <001a01c872ae$577b3f30$0101a8c0@Martindoma>

Hi Saad,
i tested this led, see:  http://www.ok1mjo.com/all/wifi/Infra_LED_HSDL-4230  .
I buy in http://www.gme.cz/cz/index.php?page=product&detail=511-149 .
17,- Kc = ~ 0.7 EU = ~0.9 USD

And in international shop (maybe)  :  http://www.ges.cz/?page=index&or=sort&ipp=12&lang=en&cur=EUR&inc=detail&gesid=GES10404762

Or other special shop in Pakistan (you are from Pakistan ????!!?? )   : 
HSDL-4230    http://pk01.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=getProduct&R=4970486
HSDL-4220    http://pk01.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=getProduct&R=4970470


M/S Roseace
Shahnaz Plaza
14-Y, Johar Road
F-8 Markaz
Islamabad 44000
Pakistan

Phone +92 51 226 1841/2 or mail roseace.sales na dsl.net.pk .



Alejkum Saalam .....  Martin




  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Saad Shakeel 
  To: Twibright Ronja 
  Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 8:25 PM
  Subject: [Ronja] Anyone with HPWT-BD00-f4000?


  Hello everyone,

  I've  tried contacting Ondrej Tesar on his email and on his mobile.... but no reply from either one,,,

  Is their anyone else here who might have this led with him, or even the hsdl-4230??

  And does the ronja shop that sells PCB have these leds too?

  Thanks All,

  Saad
------------- dal?? ??st ---------------
HTML p??loha byla odstran?na...
URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20080219/3c51b3aa/attachment.html 

From gullik.webjorn at flysta.net  Tue Feb 19 07:43:50 2008
From: gullik.webjorn at flysta.net (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Gullik_Webj=F6rn?=)
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 08:43:50 +0100
Subject: [Ronja] SFH 495 as alternate IR transmitter?
In-Reply-To: <65287.94724.qm@web44901.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <JGEILOHCPBOIFKGMGEJFEECBCAAA.gullik.webjorn@flysta.net>

Hello Saad,

To me it seems it could be used directly, and that it could
even support a 100 Mbit rate (with some equalization).

Where can you find it retail? I have not found it.

Gullik
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20080219/1fce688e/attachment.html 

From xask.linus at gmail.com  Tue Feb 19 15:07:03 2008
From: xask.linus at gmail.com (Deepak Mishra)
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 20:37:03 +0530
Subject: [Ronja] What is holding back 100 mbps
Message-ID: <3722a3330802190707n73b16c75r9841fee7bff90ab7@mail.gmail.com>

Hi people,
100 Mbps open source FSO, I think would revolutionize the wireless link
scene.
I am really confused as to what is really holding back the development of
100 Mbps RONJA, even when every thing is open source and free.
I start this thread to exactly pin point the problems of a 100 Mbps RONJA.
Let us reach to a conclusion as to what exactly must be modified.

Let us start with the LED,
1. To transmit at 100 mbps,we must find an LED which can switch on and off
in 1 ns.

So what else is on the list ?
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20080219/a968bdcf/attachment.html 

From jdb at lartmaker.nl  Tue Feb 19 15:14:49 2008
From: jdb at lartmaker.nl (J.D. Bakker)
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 16:14:49 +0100
Subject: [Ronja] What is holding back 100 mbps
In-Reply-To: <3722a3330802190707n73b16c75r9841fee7bff90ab7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3722a3330802190707n73b16c75r9841fee7bff90ab7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p0624051bc3e0a2c458bf@[130.161.115.44]>

>Hi people,
>100 Mbps open source FSO, I think would revolutionize the wireless link scene.
>I am really confused as to what is really holding back the 
>development of 100 Mbps RONJA, even when every thing is open source 
>and free.
>I start this thread to exactly pin point the problems of a 100 Mbps RONJA.
>Let us reach to a conclusion as to what exactly must be modified.
>
>Let us start with the LED,
>1. To transmit at 100 mbps,we must find an LED which can switch on 
>and off in 1 ns.
>
>So what else is on the list ?

This has been discussed a few times in the past; please have a look 
at the list archives.

JDB.
-- 
LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files.
http://www.lartmaker.nl/


From hybrid.parameter at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 20 04:37:01 2008
From: hybrid.parameter at yahoo.com (Saad Shakeel)
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 20:37:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Ronja] Re.:Re:  SFH 495 as alternate IR transmitter?
In-Reply-To: <JGEILOHCPBOIFKGMGEJFEECBCAAA.gullik.webjorn@flysta.net>
Message-ID: <849759.67075.qm@web44906.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Hi Gullik,
   
   I found it at a local shop (Karachi - Pakistan), this was the only fast led they had. 
   
   Went there looking for the Hsdl-4230.
   
   By the way Clock advised me that it might be a laser and will require a different drive circuit, any idea, how we might proceed with that.... and i wasn't able to find any safety Class specification of this led in the datasheet... anybody know how we might do that?
   
  Regards,
   
  Saad

Gullik Webj?rn <gullik.webjorn at flysta.net> wrote:
      Hello Saad,
   
  To me it seems it could be used directly, and that it could
  even support a 100 Mbit rate (with some equalization).
   
  Where can you find it retail? I have not found it.
   
  Gullik
   -- 
Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com
Ronja at lists.pointless.net
http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


       
---------------------------------
Looking for last minute shopping deals?  Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20080219/dfb6d19b/attachment.html 

From xask.linus at gmail.com  Wed Feb 20 04:37:30 2008
From: xask.linus at gmail.com (Deepak Mishra)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 10:07:30 +0530
Subject: [Ronja] What is holding back 100 mbps
In-Reply-To: <p0624051bc3e0a2c458bf@130.161.115.44>
References: <3722a3330802190707n73b16c75r9841fee7bff90ab7@mail.gmail.com>
	<p0624051bc3e0a2c458bf@130.161.115.44>
Message-ID: <3722a3330802192037r3326c408g98b76e1e0fd88e04@mail.gmail.com>

Yeah you are right, there have been discussions in the past, people have
discussed lasers etc even FPGA. I thought if we would enumerate the problems
and the changes required, it would be easy for people to start making
changes to the design. Different people could work at different problems and
then could combine the solution, very much like growth of the Linux kernel,
in the true spirit of open source.

Regards,
Deepak


On 19/02/2008, J.D. Bakker <jdb at lartmaker.nl> wrote:
>
> >Hi people,
> >100 Mbps open source FSO, I think would revolutionize the wireless link
> scene.
> >I am really confused as to what is really holding back the
> >development of 100 Mbps RONJA, even when every thing is open source
> >and free.
> >I start this thread to exactly pin point the problems of a 100 Mbps
> RONJA.
> >Let us reach to a conclusion as to what exactly must be modified.
> >
> >Let us start with the LED,
> >1. To transmit at 100 mbps,we must find an LED which can switch on
> >and off in 1 ns.
> >
> >So what else is on the list ?
>
> This has been discussed a few times in the past; please have a look
> at the list archives.
>
> JDB.
> --
> LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files.
> http://www.lartmaker.nl/
>
> --
> Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20080220/57c62b65/attachment.html 

From hybrid.parameter at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 20 05:02:26 2008
From: hybrid.parameter at yahoo.com (Saad Shakeel)
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 21:02:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Ronja] Anyone with HPWT-BD00-f4000?
In-Reply-To: <47B9EC20.7010402@incunabulum.net>
Message-ID: <76470.19170.qm@web44915.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>


Hi  Bruce,
   
  Nice of you to reply. By the low power ones. do you mean the ML...Md or Rh series?
   
  It seems that the Hsdl-4230 is no longer in stock, thats what the distributor said..... when i checked the farnell site, it showed two columns, one showing some pieces in stock whereas the other said they are no longer in  stock.
   
  Any way, can you plz tell me you where will you ship these leds from, and what would be the approx cost of that... and ofcourse of the leds themselves...
   
   
  Best Regards,
   
  Saad
Bruce M Simpson <bms at incunabulum.net> wrote:
  Saad Shakeel wrote:
> Is their anyone else here who might have this led with him, or even 
> the hsdl-4230??

I only have low power HPWTs, but I have lots of them. I have the 
hsdl-4220. The 4230 was available from Farnell last I checked.


-- 
Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com
Ronja at lists.pointless.net
http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


       
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20080219/4d8d7177/attachment.html 

From hybrid.parameter at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 20 05:14:39 2008
From: hybrid.parameter at yahoo.com (Saad Shakeel)
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 21:14:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Ronja] What is holding back 100 mbps
In-Reply-To: <3722a3330802192037r3326c408g98b76e1e0fd88e04@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <78639.86846.qm@web44913.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Hey Deepak,
   
  2. Need equally fast photodiode and 74xx ics
  3. faster ne592 alternate as it only works at 10nS
  4. we might be able to use the bf908 since it supports upto 1 GHz.
    Regards
   
  Saad

Deepak Mishra <xask.linus at gmail.com> wrote:
  Yeah you are right, there have been discussions in the past, people have discussed lasers etc even FPGA. I thought if we would enumerate the problems and the changes required, it would be easy for people to start making changes to the design. Different people could work at different problems and then could combine the solution, very much like growth of the Linux kernel, in the true spirit of open source.

Regards,
Deepak


  On 19/02/2008, J.D. Bakker <jdb at lartmaker.nl> wrote:  >Hi people,
>100 Mbps open source FSO, I think would revolutionize the wireless link scene.
>I am really confused as to what is really holding back the
>development of 100 Mbps RONJA, even when every thing is open source
>and free.
>I start this thread to exactly pin point the problems of a 100 Mbps RONJA.
>Let us reach to a conclusion as to what exactly must be modified.
>
>Let us start with the LED,
>1. To transmit at 100 mbps,we must find an LED which can switch on
>and off in 1 ns.
>
>So what else is on the list ?

This has been discussed a few times in the past; please have a look
at the list archives.

JDB.
--
LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files.
http://www.lartmaker.nl/

--
Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com
Ronja at lists.pointless.net
http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


-- 
Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com
Ronja at lists.pointless.net
http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


       
---------------------------------
Looking for last minute shopping deals?  Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20080219/4511d974/attachment.html 

From xask.linus at gmail.com  Wed Feb 20 05:35:35 2008
From: xask.linus at gmail.com (Deepak Mishra)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 11:05:35 +0530
Subject: [Ronja] What is holding back 100 mbps
In-Reply-To: <78639.86846.qm@web44913.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
References: <3722a3330802192037r3326c408g98b76e1e0fd88e04@mail.gmail.com>
	<78639.86846.qm@web44913.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3722a3330802192135r7ccab4b5qc4d1558c3512d096@mail.gmail.com>

thanks, this is what i was looking for.
any other thoughts on the list ?

Regards,
Deepak

On 20/02/2008, Saad Shakeel <hybrid.parameter at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Hey Deepak,
>
> 2. Need equally fast photodiode and 74xx ics
> 3. faster ne592 alternate as it only works at 10nS
> 4. we might be able to use the bf908 since it supports upto 1 GHz.
>   Regards
>
> Saad
>
> *Deepak Mishra <xask.linus at gmail.com>* wrote:
>
> Yeah you are right, there have been discussions in the past, people have
> discussed lasers etc even FPGA. I thought if we would enumerate the problems
> and the changes required, it would be easy for people to start making
> changes to the design. Different people could work at different problems and
> then could combine the solution, very much like growth of the Linux kernel,
> in the true spirit of open source.
>
> Regards,
> Deepak
>
>
> On 19/02/2008, J.D. Bakker <jdb at lartmaker.nl> wrote:
> >
> > >Hi people,
> > >100 Mbps open source FSO, I think would revolutionize the wireless link
> > scene.
> > >I am really confused as to what is really holding back the
> > >development of 100 Mbps RONJA, even when every thing is open source
> > >and free.
> > >I start this thread to exactly pin point the problems of a 100 Mbps
> > RONJA.
> > >Let us reach to a conclusion as to what exactly must be modified.
> > >
> > >Let us start with the LED,
> > >1. To transmit at 100 mbps,we must find an LED which can switch on
> > >and off in 1 ns.
> > >
> > >So what else is on the list ?
> >
> > This has been discussed a few times in the past; please have a look
> > at the list archives.
> >
> > JDB.
> > --
> > LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files.
> > http://www.lartmaker.nl/
> >
> > --
> > Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com
> > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> >
>
> --
> Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>
>
> ------------------------------
> Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51734/*http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping>
>
>
> --
> Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20080220/9404a5de/attachment-0001.html 

From cd930 at centrum.cz  Wed Feb 20 06:12:24 2008
From: cd930 at centrum.cz (CD930)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 07:12:24 +0100
Subject: [Ronja] What is holding back 100 mbps
References: <3722a3330802190707n73b16c75r9841fee7bff90ab7@mail.gmail.com><p0624051bc3e0a2c458bf@130.161.115.44>
	<3722a3330802192037r3326c408g98b76e1e0fd88e04@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <003301c87387$8f889010$0101a8c0@Martindoma>

I tested on MAXIM and MARVELL chip-set....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9h3hDm32kv4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcjaJhMHcNk


TX can by IR-LED, but with short peak to 1ns......   http://www.roithner-laser.com/LED_MID_IR.htm    or  http://www.roithner-laser.com/LED_HP_single_chip.html


I am after tested go to laser diode, it is simply.

Martin




  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Deepak Mishra 
  To: Twibright Ronja 
  Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 5:37 AM
  Subject: Re: [Ronja] What is holding back 100 mbps


  Yeah you are right, there have been discussions in the past, people have discussed lasers etc even FPGA. I thought if we would enumerate the problems and the changes required, it would be easy for people to start making changes to the design. Different people could work at different problems and then could combine the solution, very much like growth of the Linux kernel, in the true spirit of open source.

  Regards,
  Deepak



  On 19/02/2008, J.D. Bakker <jdb na lartmaker.nl> wrote:
    >Hi people,
    >100 Mbps open source FSO, I think would revolutionize the wireless link scene.
    >I am really confused as to what is really holding back the
    >development of 100 Mbps RONJA, even when every thing is open source
    >and free.
    >I start this thread to exactly pin point the problems of a 100 Mbps RONJA.
    >Let us reach to a conclusion as to what exactly must be modified.
    >
    >Let us start with the LED,
    >1. To transmit at 100 mbps,we must find an LED which can switch on
    >and off in 1 ns.
    >
    >So what else is on the list ?

    This has been discussed a few times in the past; please have a look
    at the list archives.

    JDB.
    --
    LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files.
    http://www.lartmaker.nl/

    --
    Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com
    Ronja na lists.pointless.net
    http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja





------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  -- 
  Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com
  Ronja na lists.pointless.net
  http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
------------- dal?? ??st ---------------
HTML p??loha byla odstran?na...
URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20080220/a7a7c2c8/attachment.html 

From twibright at hispeed.ch  Wed Feb 20 09:36:21 2008
From: twibright at hispeed.ch (twibright at hispeed.ch)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 10:36:21 +0100
Subject: [Ronja] What is holding back 100 mbps
Message-ID: <2613165.1203500181652.JavaMail.root@viefep17>

---- Deepak Mishra <xask.linus at gmail.com> schrieb:
> Hi people,
> 100 Mbps open source FSO, I think would revolutionize the wireless link
> scene.
> I am really confused as to what is really holding back the development of
> 100 Mbps RONJA, even when every thing is open source and free.

The fact that I have to go to work? Anyone has resources to pay one developer fulltime?
But don't expect immediate 100Mbps even in that case, I would first fix bugs on the 10Mbps before starting with 100Mbps :) First bugs, then features.

CL<

> I start this thread to exactly pin point the problems of a 100 Mbps RONJA.
> Let us reach to a conclusion as to what exactly must be modified.
> 
> Let us start with the LED,
> 1. To transmit at 100 mbps,we must find an LED which can switch on and off
> in 1 ns.
> 
> So what else is on the list ?



From twibright at hispeed.ch  Wed Feb 20 13:48:22 2008
From: twibright at hispeed.ch (twibright at hispeed.ch)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 14:48:22 +0100
Subject: [Ronja] Anyone with HPWT-BD00-f4000?
Message-ID: <2111168.1203515302382.JavaMail.root@viefep17>

---- Saad Shakeel <hybrid.parameter at yahoo.com> schrieb:
> 
> Hi  Bruce,
>    
>   Nice of you to reply. By the low power ones. do you mean the ML...Md or Rh series?
>    
>   It seems that the Hsdl-4230 is no longer in stock, thats what the distributor said..... when i checked the farnell site, it showed two columns, one showing some pieces in stock whereas the other said they are no longer in  stock.

distrelec.ch, ges.cz and gme.cz have them.

CL<



From antitron at web.de  Wed Feb 20 21:20:41 2008
From: antitron at web.de (Thomas Egenhofer)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 22:20:41 +0100
Subject: [Ronja] What is holding back 100 mbps
Message-ID: <1682174938@web.de>

> > I start this thread to exactly pin point the problems of a 100 Mbps RONJA.
> > Let us reach to a conclusion as to what exactly must be modified.
> > 
> > Let us start with the LED,
> > 1. To transmit at 100 mbps,we must find an LED which can switch on and off
> > in 1 ns.
that's not neccessariliy true. if you wanna use 2-level encoded signals like now ,you'd run into several problems.
first is you would have to change the encoding of the MLT3 signal to 2-level signal which is suited for optical transmission. in easiest case manchester code.
which would result in a 0.5ns signal-time. which again would require about as few as 0.2 or even less rise/falltimes. from my experience this is not possible with LED's at all.
in any case this would require an almost complete re-design of the entire electronics ending up in a by far ways more comlicated circuit.

second option is to stick with the MLT3 signal delivered from the networkcard. this leaves you signal-times of (correct me if i'm wrong )  ~30ns which is still ad the edge of LED's capabilities. right now ronja is at 50ns. so the LED's would require risetimes of 15ns  or less .difficult to find but still possible.though this would require you to redesign most of ronja,too. but it would spare you from transcoding the signal twice.
you would need to build a current-controller for the LED's which is capable of switching the driving currents very fast and accurate. maybe even over-drive it and use a monitor-diode to get a light-output feedback.
on the receiver side you would need to build a 3-level receiver.. as it happens i was sorta bored recently and i draw a rough shematic of such a thing.
it basically divides the 3-level input signal into 2 2-level signals which can be easily compared against the half of the average signal AC.
it doesnt look very trustworthy and requires a lot more additions to actually work in real-experiments. but the simulation on this tiny idea worked quite well. so at least it's a start.

feel free to improve it -> http://home.arcor.de/positiveelectron/files/MLT-3-receiver.png

ronja sorta already has a MLT3 line transmitter to match the IEEE standarts of link-integrity bursts. so the efforts on this end would be comparebly small.
all in all the require changes are tons of work. but at least within the range of technical posibilitys.

just my 2 cents on all of this. but if you got intrested feel free to ask for more :)
i'm also quite intrested in speeding up ronja a little^
_____________________________________________________________________
Unbegrenzter Speicherplatz f?r Ihr E-Mail Postfach? Jetzt aktivieren!
http://www.digitaledienste.web.de/freemail/club/lp/?lp=7



From jim at netgate.com  Wed Feb 20 22:57:12 2008
From: jim at netgate.com (Jim Thompson)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 12:57:12 -1000
Subject: [Ronja] What is holding back 100 mbps
In-Reply-To: <2613165.1203500181652.JavaMail.root@viefep17>
References: <2613165.1203500181652.JavaMail.root@viefep17>
Message-ID: <CE97B2AF-7645-48D1-BCF0-573D516C67AE@netgate.com>


On Feb 19, 2008, at 11:36 PM, <twibright at hispeed.ch> <twibright at hispeed.ch 
 > wrote:

> But don't expect immediate 100Mbps even in that case, I would first  
> fix bugs on the 10Mbps before starting with 100Mbps :) First bugs,  
> then features.

I could be convinced to fund / find funding for a 100Mbps Ronja.

How much would it take?

My interest in 10Mbps Ronja is more of a 'hobby' level.

Jim


From lepiaf at bgwireless.net  Thu Feb 21 00:35:30 2008
From: lepiaf at bgwireless.net (Vladimir Obradovic)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 01:35:30 +0100
Subject: [Ronja] What is holding back 100 mbps
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1203508801.4141.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
References: <mailman.1.1203508801.4141.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
Message-ID: <1237446432.20080221013530@bgwireless.net>


> From: "CD930" <cd930 at centrum.cz>
> I tested on MAXIM and MARVELL chip-set....
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9h3hDm32kv4
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcjaJhMHcNk

> TX can by IR-LED, but with short peak to 1ns......  
> http://www.roithner-laser.com/LED_MID_IR.htm    or 
> http://www.roithner-laser.com/LED_HP_single_chip.html

> I am after tested go to laser diode, it is simply.
> Martin

Nice demo Martin, is there some chance that documentation, tips or
howtos be available about this project some time in future? Any plans
for some kind of open hardware licence like Ronja is, or it will be
yet another of those projects that inherit Ronja's ideas/hw, show some good
stuff and then go into some factory for big bucks only :) ? No wonder
why Cl always gets upset when ppl start asking about 100mbps or xtra
range versions :)

cya
LePiaf



From cd930 at centrum.cz  Thu Feb 21 01:56:39 2008
From: cd930 at centrum.cz (CD930)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 02:56:39 +0100
Subject: [Ronja] What is holding back 100 mbps
References: <mailman.1.1203508801.4141.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
	<1237446432.20080221013530@bgwireless.net>
Message-ID: <003b01c8742d$001dea50$0101a8c0@Martindoma>

Hi Vladimir.
Sorry, this development was for one firm from our city.
I must not publish circuit PCB  :(
But....some ideas i am here publish along the years.

In future looking on 1Gpbs..... avalanche photodiode with 200V dc :))) 
roung again  toy gadget.

Martin




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Vladimir Obradovic" <lepiaf na bgwireless.net>
To: "ronja-request na lists.pointless.net" <ronja na lists.pointless.net>
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 1:35 AM
Subject: Re: [Ronja] What is holding back 100 mbps


>
>> From: "CD930" <cd930 na centrum.cz>
>> I tested on MAXIM and MARVELL chip-set....
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9h3hDm32kv4
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcjaJhMHcNk
>
>> TX can by IR-LED, but with short peak to 1ns......
>> http://www.roithner-laser.com/LED_MID_IR.htm    or
>> http://www.roithner-laser.com/LED_HP_single_chip.html
>
>> I am after tested go to laser diode, it is simply.
>> Martin
>
> Nice demo Martin, is there some chance that documentation, tips or
> howtos be available about this project some time in future? Any plans
> for some kind of open hardware licence like Ronja is, or it will be
> yet another of those projects that inherit Ronja's ideas/hw, show some 
> good
> stuff and then go into some factory for big bucks only :) ? No wonder
> why Cl always gets upset when ppl start asking about 100mbps or xtra
> range versions :)
>
> cya
> LePiaf
>
>
> -- 
> Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com
> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>
> 



From jim at netgate.com  Thu Feb 21 07:41:24 2008
From: jim at netgate.com (Jim Thompson)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 21:41:24 -1000
Subject: [Ronja] What is holding back 100 mbps
In-Reply-To: <1237446432.20080221013530@bgwireless.net>
References: <mailman.1.1203508801.4141.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
	<1237446432.20080221013530@bgwireless.net>
Message-ID: <59CAB697-E51A-4DA2-8071-C06910E45311@netgate.com>


On Feb 20, 2008, at 2:35 PM, Vladimir Obradovic wrote:

>
>> From: "CD930" <cd930 at centrum.cz>
>> I tested on MAXIM and MARVELL chip-set....
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9h3hDm32kv4
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcjaJhMHcNk
>
>> TX can by IR-LED, but with short peak to 1ns......
>> http://www.roithner-laser.com/LED_MID_IR.htm    or
>> http://www.roithner-laser.com/LED_HP_single_chip.html
>
>> I am after tested go to laser diode, it is simply.
>> Martin
>
> Nice demo Martin, is there some chance that documentation, tips or
> howtos be available about this project some time in future? Any plans
> for some kind of open hardware licence like Ronja is, or it will be
> yet another of those projects that inherit Ronja's ideas/hw, show  
> some good
> stuff and then go into some factory for big bucks only :) ? No wonder
> why Cl always gets upset when ppl start asking about 100mbps or xtra
> range versions :)

I'm interested in helping fund 100Mbps Ronja, with the hw designs  
GPLed, *and* in putting units and kits into "production" and offering  
same for sale.

Jim



From xask.linus at gmail.com  Thu Feb 21 08:48:05 2008
From: xask.linus at gmail.com (Deepak Mishra)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 14:18:05 +0530
Subject: [Ronja] What is holding back 100 mbps
In-Reply-To: <003b01c8742d$001dea50$0101a8c0@Martindoma>
References: <mailman.1.1203508801.4141.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
	<1237446432.20080221013530@bgwireless.net>
	<003b01c8742d$001dea50$0101a8c0@Martindoma>
Message-ID: <3722a3330802210048k2b176d83g12b47e503873ea4f@mail.gmail.com>

Hi CD930,
Sure dont release the PCB, but you could give us suggestions on improving
the RONJA design to 100 Mbps.
You could point us in the right direction, like the modulation technique to
use, coding technique, or LED used ,or lasers, other pitfalls you
encountered ?
Would you like to support a "free" cause ?

Regards,
Deepak

On 21/02/2008, CD930 <cd930 at centrum.cz> wrote:
>
> Hi Vladimir.
> Sorry, this development was for one firm from our city.
> I must not publish circuit PCB  :(
> But....some ideas i am here publish along the years.
>
> In future looking on 1Gpbs..... avalanche photodiode with 200V dc :)))
> roung again  toy gadget.
>
> Martin
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Vladimir Obradovic" <lepiaf at bgwireless.net>
> To: "ronja-request at lists.pointless.net" <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
> Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 1:35 AM
> Subject: Re: [Ronja] What is holding back 100 mbps
>
>
> >
>
> >> From: "CD930" <cd930 at centrum.cz>
> >> I tested on MAXIM and MARVELL chip-set....
> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9h3hDm32kv4
> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcjaJhMHcNk
> >
> >> TX can by IR-LED, but with short peak to 1ns......
> >> http://www.roithner-laser.com/LED_MID_IR.htm    or
> >> http://www.roithner-laser.com/LED_HP_single_chip.html
> >
> >> I am after tested go to laser diode, it is simply.
> >> Martin
> >
> > Nice demo Martin, is there some chance that documentation, tips or
> > howtos be available about this project some time in future? Any plans
> > for some kind of open hardware licence like Ronja is, or it will be
> > yet another of those projects that inherit Ronja's ideas/hw, show some
> > good
> > stuff and then go into some factory for big bucks only :) ? No wonder
> > why Cl always gets upset when ppl start asking about 100mbps or xtra
> > range versions :)
> >
> > cya
> > LePiaf
> >
> >
> > --
> > Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com
> > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20080221/6702462e/attachment.html 

From cd930 at centrum.cz  Thu Feb 21 09:15:53 2008
From: cd930 at centrum.cz (CD930)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:15:53 +0100
Subject: [Ronja] What is holding back 100 mbps
References: <mailman.1.1203508801.4141.ronja@lists.pointless.net><1237446432.20080221013530@bgwireless.net><003b01c8742d$001dea50$0101a8c0@Martindoma>
	<3722a3330802210048k2b176d83g12b47e503873ea4f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000e01c8746a$5c153bf0$0101a8c0@Martindoma>

Sorry...no, maybe later. But...TX,RX is MAXIM chipset, mediaconvertor MARVELL 1108  (before used Micro-Linear), laser is 870nm/10mW and photodiode is PDB-C102.
Tested (tx lens 11cm, rx fresnel lens 20cm) on 2500m. RSSI go to AD and Atmel CPU (LCD and RS232c).
M.

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Deepak Mishra 
  To: Twibright Ronja 
  Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 9:48 AM
  Subject: Re: [Ronja] What is holding back 100 mbps


  Hi CD930,
  Sure dont release the PCB, but you could give us suggestions on improving the RONJA design to 100 Mbps.
  You could point us in the right direction, like the modulation technique to use, coding technique, or LED used ,or lasers, other pitfalls you encountered ?
  Would you like to support a "free" cause ?

  Regards,
  Deepak


  On 21/02/2008, CD930 <cd930 na centrum.cz> wrote:
    Hi Vladimir.
    Sorry, this development was for one firm from our city.
    I must not publish circuit PCB  :(
    But....some ideas i am here publish along the years.

    In future looking on 1Gpbs..... avalanche photodiode with 200V dc :)))
    roung again  toy gadget.

    Martin





    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Vladimir Obradovic" <lepiaf na bgwireless.net>
    To: "ronja-request na lists.pointless.net" <ronja na lists.pointless.net>
    Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 1:35 AM
    Subject: Re: [Ronja] What is holding back 100 mbps


    >

    >> From: "CD930" <cd930 na centrum.cz>
    >> I tested on MAXIM and MARVELL chip-set....
    >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9h3hDm32kv4
    >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcjaJhMHcNk
    >
    >> TX can by IR-LED, but with short peak to 1ns......
    >> http://www.roithner-laser.com/LED_MID_IR.htm    or
    >> http://www.roithner-laser.com/LED_HP_single_chip.html
    >
    >> I am after tested go to laser diode, it is simply.
    >> Martin
    >
    > Nice demo Martin, is there some chance that documentation, tips or
    > howtos be available about this project some time in future? Any plans
    > for some kind of open hardware licence like Ronja is, or it will be
    > yet another of those projects that inherit Ronja's ideas/hw, show some
    > good
    > stuff and then go into some factory for big bucks only :) ? No wonder
    > why Cl always gets upset when ppl start asking about 100mbps or xtra
    > range versions :)
    >
    > cya
    > LePiaf
    >
    >
    > --
    > Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com
    > Ronja na lists.pointless.net
    > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
    >
    >


    --
    Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com
    Ronja na lists.pointless.net
    http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja





------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  -- 
  Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com
  Ronja na lists.pointless.net
  http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
------------- dal?? ??st ---------------
HTML p??loha byla odstran?na...
URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20080221/dfc0d2a8/attachment-0001.html 

From xask.linus at gmail.com  Thu Feb 21 11:28:12 2008
From: xask.linus at gmail.com (Deepak Mishra)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 16:58:12 +0530
Subject: [Ronja] What is holding back 100 mbps
In-Reply-To: <000e01c8746a$5c153bf0$0101a8c0@Martindoma>
References: <mailman.1.1203508801.4141.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
	<1237446432.20080221013530@bgwireless.net>
	<003b01c8742d$001dea50$0101a8c0@Martindoma>
	<3722a3330802210048k2b176d83g12b47e503873ea4f@mail.gmail.com>
	<000e01c8746a$5c153bf0$0101a8c0@Martindoma>
Message-ID: <3722a3330802210328g2c9962b1y8bdf134cdffa1efb@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,
The discussion so far

Saad Shakeel says
    2. Need equally fast photodiode and 74xx ics
    3. faster ne592 alternate as it only works at 10nS
    4. we might be able to use the bf908 since it supports upto 1 GHz.

Thomas Egenhofer says
- Think over encoding technique
    1. 2 level encoding at 100 mbps could run into problems.
    2. 2 level encoding would require rise and fall times of .5ns !
    3. MLT3, coming from the LAN card could be used (30ns), requiring in
rise and fall times of 15ns of LED
    4. It would require redesigning the transmitter
    5. He already has a prototype MTL3 reciever at
http://home.arcor.de/positiveelectron/files/MLT-3-receiver.png

Meanwhile CD930 shows us he already has a 100 Mbps version, but alas the in
the clutches of proprietary license
    He has videos at
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9h3hDm32kv4
     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcjaJhMHcNk

and even better people like Jim Thompson are waiting to be convinced to
finance a 100 Mbps version.


What are we waiting for ?

Regards,
Deepak
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20080221/05671c5d/attachment.html 

From xask.linus at gmail.com  Thu Feb 21 11:32:39 2008
From: xask.linus at gmail.com (Deepak Mishra)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 17:02:39 +0530
Subject: [Ronja] What is holding back 100 mbps
In-Reply-To: <3722a3330802210328g2c9962b1y8bdf134cdffa1efb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.1.1203508801.4141.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
	<1237446432.20080221013530@bgwireless.net>
	<003b01c8742d$001dea50$0101a8c0@Martindoma>
	<3722a3330802210048k2b176d83g12b47e503873ea4f@mail.gmail.com>
	<000e01c8746a$5c153bf0$0101a8c0@Martindoma>
	<3722a3330802210328g2c9962b1y8bdf134cdffa1efb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3722a3330802210332t7e6b2d5l86c7010f49b44b25@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

Just another passing thought,
since we know that finding LEDs of extremely short rise and fall times(1 ns)
is difficult.
But LEDs of r-f times of 10-20 ns are available
which means that we could increase the bandwidth to 20 or 30 Mbps, without
significant changes to existing circuits.
I think we only need faster ICs for the circuit.
Correct me if I am wrong.

Regards,
Deepak
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20080221/fa88ec22/attachment.html 

From santiago at crfreenet.org  Thu Feb 21 11:51:30 2008
From: santiago at crfreenet.org (Ondrej Zajicek)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 12:51:30 +0100
Subject: [Ronja] What is holding back 100 mbps
In-Reply-To: <3722a3330802210332t7e6b2d5l86c7010f49b44b25@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.1.1203508801.4141.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
	<1237446432.20080221013530@bgwireless.net>
	<003b01c8742d$001dea50$0101a8c0@Martindoma>
	<3722a3330802210048k2b176d83g12b47e503873ea4f@mail.gmail.com>
	<000e01c8746a$5c153bf0$0101a8c0@Martindoma>
	<3722a3330802210328g2c9962b1y8bdf134cdffa1efb@mail.gmail.com>
	<3722a3330802210332t7e6b2d5l86c7010f49b44b25@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20080221115130.GA26793@localhost.localdomain>

On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 05:02:39PM +0530, Deepak Mishra wrote:
>    Hi all,
> 
>    Just another passing thought,
>    since we know that finding LEDs of extremely short rise and fall times(1
>    ns) is difficult.
>    But LEDs of r-f times of 10-20 ns are available
>    which means that we could increase the bandwidth to 20 or 30 Mbps, without

I heard about someone who replaced twister with someting based on 10/100 eth
switch chip and CPLD and have fixed rate 25 Mbps without modifications to
RX and TX.

-- 
Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo

Ondrej 'SanTiago' Zajicek (email: santiago at crfreenet.org, jabber: santiago at njs.netlab.cz)
OpenPGP encrypted e-mails preferred (KeyID 0x11DEADC3, wwwkeys.pgp.net)
"To err is human -- to blame it on a computer is even more so."
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 197 bytes
Desc: Digital signature
Url : http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20080221/baa248d6/attachment.bin 

From jdb at lartmaker.nl  Thu Feb 21 12:11:00 2008
From: jdb at lartmaker.nl (J.D. Bakker)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 13:11:00 +0100
Subject: [Ronja] What is holding back 100 mbps
In-Reply-To: <2613165.1203500181652.JavaMail.root@viefep17>
References: <2613165.1203500181652.JavaMail.root@viefep17>
Message-ID: <p0624052ec3e31a35c4dd@[130.161.115.44]>

>---- Deepak Mishra <xask.linus at gmail.com> schrieb:
>>  Hi people,
>>  100 Mbps open source FSO, I think would revolutionize the wireless link
>>  scene.
>>  I am really confused as to what is really holding back the development of
>>  100 Mbps RONJA, even when every thing is open source and free.
>
>The fact that I have to go to work? Anyone has resources to pay one 
>developer fulltime?

What Clock said.

I have a prototype PCB for a 100MHz RX/TX unit but simply have had no 
time to test/tweak/enhance it. LED fall time is the issue so far; I 
know what to do about it, but (payed) work takes precedence over a 
GPLed project.

JDB
[already have a kit/prebuilt boards deal set up with my commercial 
partners in Taiwan]
-- 
LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files.
http://www.lartmaker.nl/


From jdb at lartmaker.nl  Thu Feb 21 12:19:11 2008
From: jdb at lartmaker.nl (J.D. Bakker)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 13:19:11 +0100
Subject: [Ronja] What is holding back 100 mbps
In-Reply-To: <1682174938@web.de>
References: <1682174938@web.de>
Message-ID: <p06240530c3e31c4d42ac@[130.161.115.44]>

>  > > I start this thread to exactly pin point the problems of a 100 
>Mbps RONJA.
>>  > Let us reach to a conclusion as to what exactly must be modified.
>>  >
>>  > Let us start with the LED,
>>  > 1. To transmit at 100 mbps,we must find an LED which can switch on and off
>>  > in 1 ns.
>that's not neccessariliy true. if you wanna use 2-level encoded 
>signals like now ,you'd run into several problems.
>first is you would have to change the encoding of the MLT3 signal to 
>2-level signal which is suited for optical transmission. in easiest 
>case manchester code.
>which would result in a 0.5ns signal-time.

Why does a 100Mbit Manchester encoded signal (with 10ns per bit) have 
a 0.5ns signal-time? Methinks you are off by an order of magnitude.

JDB
[not that you'd want to use Manchester if you can help it...]
-- 
LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files.
http://www.lartmaker.nl/


From krepa at seznam.cz  Thu Feb 21 18:06:14 2008
From: krepa at seznam.cz (Pavel Krejci)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:06:14 +0100
Subject: [Ronja] What is holding back 100 mbps
In-Reply-To: <000e01c8746a$5c153bf0$0101a8c0@Martindoma>
References: <mailman.1.1203508801.4141.ronja@lists.pointless.net><1237446432.20080221013530@bgwireless.net><003b01c8742d$001dea50$0101a8c0@Martindoma>	<3722a3330802210048k2b176d83g12b47e503873ea4f@mail.gmail.com>
	<000e01c8746a$5c153bf0$0101a8c0@Martindoma>
Message-ID: <47BDBD96.7030505@seznam.cz>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20080221/9cc0d683/attachment.html 

From antitron at web.de  Thu Feb 21 20:59:35 2008
From: antitron at web.de (Thomas Egenhofer)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 21:59:35 +0100
Subject: [Ronja] What is holding back 100 mbps
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3.1203595201.29558.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
References: <mailman.3.1203595201.29558.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
Message-ID: <1203627575.4502.8.camel@localhost.localdomain>


> Hi all,
> The discussion so far
> 
> Saad Shakeel says
>     2. Need equally fast photodiode and 74xx ics
>     3. faster ne592 alternate as it only works at 10nS
>     4. we might be able to use the bf908 since it supports upto 1 GHz.
> 
> Thomas Egenhofer says
> - Think over encoding technique
>     1. 2 level encoding at 100 mbps could run into problems.
>     2. 2 level encoding would require rise and fall times of .5ns !
sorry.. looks like a zero shifted around in my brain. should be 5ns i
think..


>     3. MLT3, coming from the LAN card could be used (30ns), requiring in
> rise and fall times of 15ns of LED
>     4. It would require redesigning the transmitter
i dont belive you can skipp this if used with 2level encoding^^ also
keep in mind that signal-times of 10ns are quite tricky to handle. even
fast logic can easily produce a delay of up to 15ns which can cause many
problems with signal-timing in general.

>     5. He already has a prototype MTL3 reciever at
> http://home.arcor.de/positiveelectron/files/MLT-3-receiver.png
> 
> Meanwhile CD930 shows us he already has a 100 Mbps version, but alas the in
> the clutches of proprietary license
>     He has videos at
>     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9h3hDm32kv4
>      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcjaJhMHcNk
> 
> and even better people like Jim Thompson are waiting to be convinced to
> finance a 100 Mbps version.
> 
> 
> What are we waiting for ?




From gmaxwell at gmail.com  Thu Feb 21 21:06:35 2008
From: gmaxwell at gmail.com (Gregory Maxwell)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 16:06:35 -0500
Subject: [Ronja] What is holding back 100 mbps
In-Reply-To: <1682174938@web.de>
References: <1682174938@web.de>
Message-ID: <e692861c0802211306q5764399fuc5bd1e92bb70c18b@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 20, 2008 at 4:20 PM, Thomas Egenhofer <antitron at web.de> wrote:
[snip]
>  first is you would have to change the encoding of the MLT3 signal to 2-level signal which is suited for optical transmission. in easiest case manchester code.

This makes no sense to me. Going to a higher encoding level should
trade bandpass for SNR (and linearity) requirements.

It might not be a huge win given the channel characteristics, but
saying that it would need several orders of magnitude more bandwidth
(which is what saying .5ns rise time is saying)

With a proper EQ (which would be easy with an all digital
modulator/demodulator) higher level encoding should work well across
the optical channel.


From jdb at lartmaker.nl  Thu Feb 21 21:32:36 2008
From: jdb at lartmaker.nl (J.D. Bakker)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 22:32:36 +0100
Subject: [Ronja] What is holding back 100 mbps
In-Reply-To: <e692861c0802211306q5764399fuc5bd1e92bb70c18b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1682174938@web.de>
	<e692861c0802211306q5764399fuc5bd1e92bb70c18b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06240535c3e39dc69b50@[130.161.115.44]>

>With a proper EQ (which would be easy with an all digital
>modulator/demodulator)

In dedicated silicon or a larger FPGA, yes. In gates or discrete 
hardware, not so much.

JDB
[ran into this when designing a 100Mbps synchronizer, which is quite 
a bit easier than an EQ. For ASICs this is a solved problem, but I 
wanted/needed to do it in commercially available gates]
-- 
LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files.
http://www.lartmaker.nl/


From daniel.strnad at tiscali.cz  Thu Feb 21 21:35:39 2008
From: daniel.strnad at tiscali.cz (Daniel Strnad)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 22:35:39 +0100
Subject: [Ronja] What is holding back 100 mbps
In-Reply-To: <47BDBD96.7030505@seznam.cz>
References: <mailman.1.1203508801.4141.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
	<1237446432.20080221013530@bgwireless.net>
	<003b01c8742d$001dea50$0101a8c0@Martindoma>
	<3722a3330802210048k2b176d83g12b47e503873ea4f@mail.gmail.com>
	<000e01c8746a$5c153bf0$0101a8c0@Martindoma>
	<47BDBD96.7030505@seznam.cz>
Message-ID: <op.t6v8xpt2n6qjls@daman>

Hi all,
I am not very interrested in topic for some time, but I have few fast,  
suitable for 100Mbps, photodiodes. I planned some design with it, but now  
I offer it for experiments to you. It's FCI-HR008  
(http://www.datasheetarchive.com/pdf/1382205.pdf). It has capacitance  
0.8pF at 5V! Price: 1 000CZK (40?) per piece.

DS


From gmaxwell at gmail.com  Thu Feb 21 21:36:08 2008
From: gmaxwell at gmail.com (Gregory Maxwell)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 16:36:08 -0500
Subject: [Ronja] What is holding back 100 mbps
In-Reply-To: <p06240535c3e39dc69b50@130.161.115.44>
References: <1682174938@web.de>
	<e692861c0802211306q5764399fuc5bd1e92bb70c18b@mail.gmail.com>
	<p06240535c3e39dc69b50@130.161.115.44>
Message-ID: <e692861c0802211336n22170588s79deb3def160857f@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 4:32 PM, J.D. Bakker <jdb at lartmaker.nl> wrote:
> >With a proper EQ (which would be easy with an all digital
>  >modulator/demodulator)
>
>  In dedicated silicon or a larger FPGA, yes. In gates or discrete
>  hardware, not so much.

Yes. mac->fpga->adc/dac->current amp.  Solved. But making that
inexpensive? ... :-/


From adinov at yahoo.com  Fri Feb 22 06:59:07 2008
From: adinov at yahoo.com (alex dinovitser)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 22:59:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Ronja] What is holding back 100 mbps
In-Reply-To: <47BDBD96.7030505@seznam.cz>
Message-ID: <293348.55216.qm@web32708.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

This is surely analogous to the high speed fiber communications such as DWDM.
The current standard here is 10Gb/s per channel. That corresponds to an
electrical bandwidth of at least 5GHz. These optical devices are specified to
10GHz.

The diodes required for this application need to have a very low capacitance.
This capacitance (almost) solely determines the speed of the resulting
transimpedance amplifier. 
A diode's capacitance depends on its area. It also depends on the applied
reverse voltage. However, it would be wrong to use and avalanche diode in
avalanche mode! This diode detects individual photons, and each event has a
'quench time' (it works very similar in principle to a geiger-muller tube)
which means they will saturate with very low ambient light levels!

Avalanche type diodes can be suitable if operated at lower voltage because of
their small area and a wide pIn channel that results in lower capacitance. They
are very expensive however.

The small area for a suitably fast RONJA diode might requires some thought of
the optical system.

I still think the best detector theoretically would be a pyroelectric device.
No suitable affortable devices so far:-(


AD


--- Pavel Krejci <krepa at seznam.cz> wrote:


---------------------------------
  Can you tell us, please, at least which chipset from MAXIM it is?
Thanks

PK

CD930 napsal(a):        Sorry...no, maybe later. But...TX,RXis MAXIM chipset,
mediaconvertor MARVELL 1108  (beforeused Micro-Linear), laser is 870nm/10mW and
photodiode is PDB-C102.
  Tested (tx lens 11cm, rx fresnellens 20cm) on 2500m. RSSI go to AD and Atmel
CPU (LCD and RS232c).
  M.
   
      -----Original Message ----- 
    From:    Deepak Mishra 
    To:    Twibright Ronja 
    Sent:Thursday, February 21, 2008 9:48 AM
    Subject:Re: [Ronja] What is holding back 100 mbps
    
    
Hi CD930,
Sure dont release the PCB, but you could give us suggestions onimproving the
RONJA design to 100 Mbps.
You could point us in the right direction, like the modulationtechnique to use,
coding technique, or LED used ,or lasers, otherpitfalls you encountered ?
Would you like to support a "free" cause ?
    
Regards,
Deepak
    
    On 21/02/2008, CD930 <cd930 at centrum.cz> wrote:    HiVladimir.
Sorry, this development was for one firm from our city.
I must not publish circuit PCB  :(
But....some ideas i am here publish along the years.
      
In future looking on 1Gpbs..... avalanche photodiode with 200V dc :)))
roung again  toy gadget.
      
Martin
      
      
      
      
      
----- Original Message -----
From: "Vladimir Obradovic" <lepiaf at bgwireless.net>
To: "ronja-request at lists.pointless.net"<ronja at lists.pointless.net>
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 1:35 AM
Subject: Re: [Ronja] What is holding back 100 mbps
      
      
>
      
>> From: "CD930" <cd930 at centrum.cz>
>> I tested on MAXIM and MARVELL chip-set....
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9h3hDm32kv4
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcjaJhMHcNk
>
>> TX can by IR-LED, but with short peak to 1ns......
>> http://www.roithner-laser.com/LED_MID_IR.htm    or
>> http://www.roithner-laser.com/LED_HP_single_chip.html
>
>> I am after tested go to laser diode, it is simply.
>> Martin
>
> Nice demo Martin, is there some chance that documentation, tips or
> howtos be available about this project some time in future? Anyplans
> for some kind of open hardware licence like Ronja is, or it will be
> yet another of those projects that inherit Ronja's ideas/hw, showsome
> good
> stuff and then go into some factory for big bucks only :) ? Nowonder
> why Cl always gets upset when ppl start asking about 100mbps orxtra
> range versions :)
>
> cya
> LePiaf
>
>
> --
> Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>
>
      
      
--
Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com
      Ronja at lists.pointless.net
      http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
        
    
    
 
    
---------------------------------
 -- 
Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com
Ronja at lists.pointless.net
http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
  > -- 
> Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 



      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page. 
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs


From stoiko at mail.bg  Fri Feb 22 07:36:34 2008
From: stoiko at mail.bg (stoiko at mail.bg)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 09:36:34 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] What is holding back 100 mbps
In-Reply-To: <47BDBD96.7030505@seznam.cz>
References: <mailman.1.1203508801.4141.ronja@lists.pointless.net><1237446432.20080221013530@bgwireless.net><003b01c8742d$001dea50$0101a8c0@Martindoma>
	<3722a3330802210048k2b176d83g12b47e503873ea4f@mail.gmail.com>
	<000e01c8746a$5c153bf0$0101a8c0@Martindoma>
	<47BDBD96.7030505@seznam.cz>
Message-ID: <20080222093634.xvljt4gscg88gscc@mail.bg>

:)

http://aldebaran.feld.cvut.cz/~xmyslik/crusader/

search :)


>       Can you tell us, please, at least which chipset from MAXIM it
> is?
> Thanks
>
> PK
>
> CD930 napsal(a):     SORRY...NO, MAYBE LATER. BUT...TX,RX IS MAXIM
> CHIPSET, MEDIACONVERTOR MARVELL 1108  (BEFORE USED MICRO-LINEAR),
> LASER IS 870NM/10MW AND PHOTODIODE IS PDB-C102. TESTED (TX LENS 11CM,
> RX FRESNEL LENS 20CM) ON 2500M. RSSI GO TO AD AND ATMEL CPU (LCD AND
> RS232C). M.    ----- ORIGINAL MESSAGE -----  FROM: Deepak Mishra  TO:
> Twibright Ronja  SENT: Thursday, February 21, 2008 9:48 AM SUBJECT:
> Re: [Ronja] What is holding back 100 mbps
>  Hi CD930,
> Sure dont release the PCB, but you could give us suggestions on
> improving the RONJA design to 100 Mbps.
> You could point us in the right direction, like the modulation
> technique to use, coding technique, or LED used ,or lasers, other
> pitfalls you encountered ?
> Would you like to support a "free" cause ?
>
> Regards,
> Deepak
>
> On 21/02/2008, CD930 <cd930 at centrum.cz> wrote: Hi Vladimir.
> Sorry, this development was for one firm from our city.
> I must not publish circuit PCB  :(
> But....some ideas i am here publish along the years.
>
> In future looking on 1Gpbs..... avalanche photodiode with 200V dc
> :)))
> roung again  toy gadget.
>
> Martin
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Vladimir Obradovic" <lepiaf at bgwireless.net>
> To: "ronja-request at lists.pointless.net" <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
> Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 1:35 AM
> Subject: Re: [Ronja] What is holding back 100 mbps
>
>>
>
>>> From: "CD930" <cd930 at centrum.cz>
>>> I tested on MAXIM and MARVELL chip-set....
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9h3hDm32kv4
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcjaJhMHcNk
>>
>>> TX can by IR-LED, but with short peak to 1ns......
>>> http://www.roithner-laser.com/LED_MID_IR.htm    or
>>> http://www.roithner-laser.com/LED_HP_single_chip.html
>>
>>> I am after tested go to laser diode, it is simply.
>>> Martin
>>
>> Nice demo Martin, is there some chance that documentation, tips or
>> howtos be available about this project some time in future? Any
> plans
>> for some kind of open hardware licence like Ronja is, or it will be
>> yet another of those projects that inherit Ronja's ideas/hw, show
> some
>> good
>> stuff and then go into some factory for big bucks only :) ? No
> wonder
>> why Cl always gets upset when ppl start asking about 100mbps or
> xtra
>> range versions :)
>>
>> cya
>> LePiaf
>>
>>
>> --
>> Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com
>> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>>
>>
>
> --
> Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>
> -------------------------
> --
> Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>



-------------------------------------
Powered by Mail.BG - http://mail.bg



From pkyaduvanshi at gmail.com  Fri Feb 22 08:24:37 2008
From: pkyaduvanshi at gmail.com (Pramod yaduvanshi)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 13:54:37 +0530
Subject: [Ronja] Ronja Digest, Vol 58, Issue 13
In-Reply-To: <mailman.577.1203663555.24740.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
References: <mailman.577.1203663555.24740.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
Message-ID: <50d3ad760802220024s4207f3bbpe22216486dc743fe@mail.gmail.com>

I am working on a 100 mbps design based on ML6652 and LED driver is MAX3263
and Reciver uses philips SA5211 as transimpedance Amplifier .Will be
releasing first shematics in a day or two . I am planning to use VCSEL laser
to begin with .

Since ML6652 has autonegotiation feature all those will be no problem for
100mbps design . Only problem will be soldering ML6652  which will need
specail facility and might not be possible in a home lab .

PK Yaduvanshi


On 22/02/2008, ronja-request at lists.pointless.net <
ronja-request at lists.pointless.net> wrote:
>
> Send Ronja mailing list submissions to
>        ronja at lists.pointless.net
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>        http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>        ronja-request at lists.pointless.net
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>        ronja-owner at lists.pointless.net
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Ronja digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re:  What is holding back 100 mbps (J.D. Bakker)
>   2. Re:  What is holding back 100 mbps (J.D. Bakker)
>   3. Re:  What is holding back 100 mbps (Pavel Krejci)
>   4. Re:  What is holding back 100 mbps (Thomas Egenhofer)
>   5. Re:  What is holding back 100 mbps (Gregory Maxwell)
>   6. Re:  What is holding back 100 mbps (J.D. Bakker)
>   7. Re:  What is holding back 100 mbps (Daniel Strnad)
>   8. Re:  What is holding back 100 mbps (Gregory Maxwell)
>   9. Re:  What is holding back 100 mbps (alex dinovitser)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 13:11:00 +0100
> From: "J.D. Bakker" <jdb at lartmaker.nl>
> Subject: Re: [Ronja] What is holding back 100 mbps
> To: Twibright Ronja <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
> Message-ID: <p0624052ec3e31a35c4dd@[130.161.115.44]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
>
> >---- Deepak Mishra <xask.linus at gmail.com> schrieb:
> >>  Hi people,
> >>  100 Mbps open source FSO, I think would revolutionize the wireless
> link
> >>  scene.
> >>  I am really confused as to what is really holding back the development
> of
> >>  100 Mbps RONJA, even when every thing is open source and free.
> >
> >The fact that I have to go to work? Anyone has resources to pay one
> >developer fulltime?
>
> What Clock said.
>
> I have a prototype PCB for a 100MHz RX/TX unit but simply have had no
> time to test/tweak/enhance it. LED fall time is the issue so far; I
> know what to do about it, but (payed) work takes precedence over a
> GPLed project.
>
> JDB
> [already have a kit/prebuilt boards deal set up with my commercial
> partners in Taiwan]
> --
> LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files.
> http://www.lartmaker.nl/
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 13:19:11 +0100
> From: "J.D. Bakker" <jdb at lartmaker.nl>
> Subject: Re: [Ronja] What is holding back 100 mbps
> To: Twibright Ronja <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
> Message-ID: <p06240530c3e31c4d42ac@[130.161.115.44]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
>
> >  > > I start this thread to exactly pin point the problems of a 100
> >Mbps RONJA.
> >>  > Let us reach to a conclusion as to what exactly must be modified.
> >>  >
> >>  > Let us start with the LED,
> >>  > 1. To transmit at 100 mbps,we must find an LED which can switch on
> and off
> >>  > in 1 ns.
> >that's not neccessariliy true. if you wanna use 2-level encoded
> >signals like now ,you'd run into several problems.
> >first is you would have to change the encoding of the MLT3 signal to
> >2-level signal which is suited for optical transmission. in easiest
> >case manchester code.
> >which would result in a 0.5ns signal-time.
>
> Why does a 100Mbit Manchester encoded signal (with 10ns per bit) have
> a 0.5ns signal-time? Methinks you are off by an order of magnitude.
>
> JDB
> [not that you'd want to use Manchester if you can help it...]
> --
> LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files.
> http://www.lartmaker.nl/
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:06:14 +0100
> From: Pavel Krejci <krepa at seznam.cz>
> Subject: Re: [Ronja] What is holding back 100 mbps
> To: Twibright Ronja <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
> Message-ID: <47BDBD96.7030505 at seznam.cz>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:
> http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20080221/9cc0d683/attachment-0001.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 21:59:35 +0100
> From: Thomas Egenhofer <antitron at web.de>
> Subject: Re: [Ronja] What is holding back 100 mbps
> To: ronja at lists.pointless.net
> Message-ID: <1203627575.4502.8.camel at localhost.localdomain>
> Content-Type: text/plain
>
>
> > Hi all,
> > The discussion so far
> >
> > Saad Shakeel says
> >     2. Need equally fast photodiode and 74xx ics
> >     3. faster ne592 alternate as it only works at 10nS
> >     4. we might be able to use the bf908 since it supports upto 1 GHz.
> >
> > Thomas Egenhofer says
> > - Think over encoding technique
> >     1. 2 level encoding at 100 mbps could run into problems.
> >     2. 2 level encoding would require rise and fall times of .5ns !
> sorry.. looks like a zero shifted around in my brain. should be 5ns i
> think..
>
>
> >     3. MLT3, coming from the LAN card could be used (30ns), requiring in
> > rise and fall times of 15ns of LED
> >     4. It would require redesigning the transmitter
> i dont belive you can skipp this if used with 2level encoding^^ also
> keep in mind that signal-times of 10ns are quite tricky to handle. even
> fast logic can easily produce a delay of up to 15ns which can cause many
> problems with signal-timing in general.
>
> >     5. He already has a prototype MTL3 reciever at
> > http://home.arcor.de/positiveelectron/files/MLT-3-receiver.png
> >
> > Meanwhile CD930 shows us he already has a 100 Mbps version, but alas the
> in
> > the clutches of proprietary license
> >     He has videos at
> >     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9h3hDm32kv4
> >      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcjaJhMHcNk
> >
> > and even better people like Jim Thompson are waiting to be convinced to
> > finance a 100 Mbps version.
> >
> >
> > What are we waiting for ?
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 16:06:35 -0500
> From: "Gregory Maxwell" <gmaxwell at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Ronja] What is holding back 100 mbps
> To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
> Message-ID:
>        <e692861c0802211306q5764399fuc5bd1e92bb70c18b at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> On Wed, Feb 20, 2008 at 4:20 PM, Thomas Egenhofer <antitron at web.de> wrote:
> [snip]
> >  first is you would have to change the encoding of the MLT3 signal to
> 2-level signal which is suited for optical transmission. in easiest case
> manchester code.
>
> This makes no sense to me. Going to a higher encoding level should
> trade bandpass for SNR (and linearity) requirements.
>
> It might not be a huge win given the channel characteristics, but
> saying that it would need several orders of magnitude more bandwidth
> (which is what saying .5ns rise time is saying)
>
> With a proper EQ (which would be easy with an all digital
> modulator/demodulator) higher level encoding should work well across
> the optical channel.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 22:32:36 +0100
> From: "J.D. Bakker" <jdb at lartmaker.nl>
> Subject: Re: [Ronja] What is holding back 100 mbps
> To: Twibright Ronja <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
> Message-ID: <p06240535c3e39dc69b50@[130.161.115.44]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
>
> >With a proper EQ (which would be easy with an all digital
> >modulator/demodulator)
>
> In dedicated silicon or a larger FPGA, yes. In gates or discrete
> hardware, not so much.
>
> JDB
> [ran into this when designing a 100Mbps synchronizer, which is quite
> a bit easier than an EQ. For ASICs this is a solved problem, but I
> wanted/needed to do it in commercially available gates]
> --
> LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files.
> http://www.lartmaker.nl/
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 22:35:39 +0100
> From: "Daniel Strnad" <daniel.strnad at tiscali.cz>
> Subject: Re: [Ronja] What is holding back 100 mbps
> To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
> Message-ID: <op.t6v8xpt2n6qjls at daman>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=utf-8
>
> Hi all,
> I am not very interrested in topic for some time, but I have few fast,
> suitable for 100Mbps, photodiodes. I planned some design with it, but now
> I offer it for experiments to you. It's FCI-HR008
> (http://www.datasheetarchive.com/pdf/1382205.pdf). It has capacitance
> 0.8pF at 5V! Price: 1 000CZK (40?) per piece.
>
> DS
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 16:36:08 -0500
> From: "Gregory Maxwell" <gmaxwell at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Ronja] What is holding back 100 mbps
> To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
> Message-ID:
>        <e692861c0802211336n22170588s79deb3def160857f at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 4:32 PM, J.D. Bakker <jdb at lartmaker.nl> wrote:
> > >With a proper EQ (which would be easy with an all digital
> >  >modulator/demodulator)
> >
> >  In dedicated silicon or a larger FPGA, yes. In gates or discrete
> >  hardware, not so much.
>
> Yes. mac->fpga->adc/dac->current amp.  Solved. But making that
> inexpensive? ... :-/
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 22:59:07 -0800 (PST)
> From: alex dinovitser <adinov at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Ronja] What is holding back 100 mbps
> To: Twibright Ronja <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
> Message-ID: <293348.55216.qm at web32708.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> This is surely analogous to the high speed fiber communications such as
> DWDM.
> The current standard here is 10Gb/s per channel. That corresponds to an
> electrical bandwidth of at least 5GHz. These optical devices are specified
> to
> 10GHz.
>
> The diodes required for this application need to have a very low
> capacitance.
> This capacitance (almost) solely determines the speed of the resulting
> transimpedance amplifier.
> A diode's capacitance depends on its area. It also depends on the applied
> reverse voltage. However, it would be wrong to use and avalanche diode in
> avalanche mode! This diode detects individual photons, and each event has
> a
> 'quench time' (it works very similar in principle to a geiger-muller tube)
> which means they will saturate with very low ambient light levels!
>
> Avalanche type diodes can be suitable if operated at lower voltage because
> of
> their small area and a wide pIn channel that results in lower capacitance.
> They
> are very expensive however.
>
> The small area for a suitably fast RONJA diode might requires some thought
> of
> the optical system.
>
> I still think the best detector theoretically would be a pyroelectric
> device.
> No suitable affortable devices so far:-(
>
>
> AD
>
>
> --- Pavel Krejci <krepa at seznam.cz> wrote:
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Can you tell us, please, at least which chipset from MAXIM it is?
> Thanks
>
> PK
>
> CD930 napsal(a):        Sorry...no, maybe later. But...TX,RXis MAXIM
> chipset,
> mediaconvertor MARVELL 1108  (beforeused Micro-Linear), laser is
> 870nm/10mW and
> photodiode is PDB-C102.
> Tested (tx lens 11cm, rx fresnellens 20cm) on 2500m. RSSI go to AD and
> Atmel
> CPU (LCD and RS232c).
> M.
>
>      -----Original Message -----
>    From:    Deepak Mishra
>    To:    Twibright Ronja
>    Sent:Thursday, February 21, 2008 9:48 AM
>    Subject:Re: [Ronja] What is holding back 100 mbps
>
>
> Hi CD930,
> Sure dont release the PCB, but you could give us suggestions onimproving
> the
> RONJA design to 100 Mbps.
> You could point us in the right direction, like the modulationtechnique to
> use,
> coding technique, or LED used ,or lasers, otherpitfalls you encountered ?
> Would you like to support a "free" cause ?
>
> Regards,
> Deepak
>
>    On 21/02/2008, CD930 <cd930 at centrum.cz> wrote:    HiVladimir.
> Sorry, this development was for one firm from our city.
> I must not publish circuit PCB  :(
> But....some ideas i am here publish along the years.
>
> In future looking on 1Gpbs..... avalanche photodiode with 200V dc :)))
> roung again  toy gadget.
>
> Martin
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Vladimir Obradovic" <lepiaf at bgwireless.net>
> To: "ronja-request at lists.pointless.net"<ronja at lists.pointless.net>
> Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 1:35 AM
> Subject: Re: [Ronja] What is holding back 100 mbps
>
>
> >
>
> >> From: "CD930" <cd930 at centrum.cz>
> >> I tested on MAXIM and MARVELL chip-set....
> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9h3hDm32kv4
> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcjaJhMHcNk
> >
> >> TX can by IR-LED, but with short peak to 1ns......
> >> http://www.roithner-laser.com/LED_MID_IR.htm    or
> >> http://www.roithner-laser.com/LED_HP_single_chip.html
> >
> >> I am after tested go to laser diode, it is simply.
> >> Martin
> >
> > Nice demo Martin, is there some chance that documentation, tips or
> > howtos be available about this project some time in future? Anyplans
> > for some kind of open hardware licence like Ronja is, or it will be
> > yet another of those projects that inherit Ronja's ideas/hw, showsome
> > good
> > stuff and then go into some factory for big bucks only :) ? Nowonder
> > why Cl always gets upset when ppl start asking about 100mbps orxtra
> > range versions :)
> >
> > cya
> > LePiaf
> >
> >
> > --
> > Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com
> > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com
>      Ronja at lists.pointless.net
>      http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> --
> Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> > --
> > Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com
> > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> >
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page.
> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>
>
> End of Ronja Digest, Vol 58, Issue 13
> *************************************
>



-- 
Tel: +91 9940589851
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20080222/2146aad0/attachment-0001.html 

From eldis111 at seznam.cz  Fri Feb 22 14:03:39 2008
From: eldis111 at seznam.cz (eldis)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 15:03:39 +0100
Subject: [Ronja] Ronja Digest, Vol 58, Issue 13
In-Reply-To: <50d3ad760802220024s4207f3bbpe22216486dc743fe@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.577.1203663555.24740.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
	<50d3ad760802220024s4207f3bbpe22216486dc743fe@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47BED63B.9000602@seznam.cz>

ML6652 might look like good choice, but I wouldn't recommend it.
There have been reports of malfunctions and bugs in this chip. In my 
opinion this is because of very noisy enviroment.
As you know, fiber optics (ML6652 standart usage) means,
that manufacturer is not taking into consideration that much noise on 
RX. When some bad packets arrive,
ML6652 can freeze (and will, on ocasions).
I've worked on 100Mbps FSO some time ago, even had chance to speak with 
designer of 10Ghz radio.
He told me about problems with interpreting damaged data, and flows in 
cheap convertors.
My design use for TX - MAX3263,
RX - MAX3657 for TIA, and MAX3645 as limiter.
Convertor based on RTL8305SB, IMHO there are better choices, but only in 
+1000 quanties
Cheap PIN photodiode from Vishay (1,8pF).
This design worked, but never finished.
As for VCSEL, it is good choice, if you find some with enought power.
Than you don't need that MAX3263, basic regulation is sufficient.

BTW, things that have pins visible are easy to solder even on home-made 
board with basic soldering tools,
BGA's are harder :)

eldis


> I am working on a 100 mbps design based on ML6652 and LED driver is 
> MAX3263 and Reciver uses philips SA5211 as transimpedance Amplifier 
> .Will be releasing first shematics in a day or two . I am planning to 
> use VCSEL laser to begin with .
>  
> Since ML6652 has autonegotiation feature all those will be no problem 
> for 100mbps design . Only problem will be soldering ML6652  which will 
> need specail facility and might not be possible in a home lab .
>  
> PK Yaduvanshi
>
>  
> On 22/02/2008, *ronja-request na lists.pointless.net 
> <mailto:ronja-request na lists.pointless.net>* 
> <ronja-request na lists.pointless.net 
> <mailto:ronja-request na lists.pointless.net>> wrote:
>
>     Send Ronja mailing list submissions to
>            ronja na lists.pointless.net <mailto:ronja na lists.pointless.net>
>
>     To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>            http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>     or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>            ronja-request na lists.pointless.net
>     <mailto:ronja-request na lists.pointless.net>
>
>     You can reach the person managing the list at
>            ronja-owner na lists.pointless.net
>     <mailto:ronja-owner na lists.pointless.net>
>
>     When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>     than "Re: Contents of Ronja digest..."
>
>
>     Today's Topics:
>
>       1. Re:  What is holding back 100 mbps (J.D. Bakker)
>       2. Re:  What is holding back 100 mbps (J.D. Bakker)
>       3. Re:  What is holding back 100 mbps (Pavel Krejci)
>       4. Re:  What is holding back 100 mbps (Thomas Egenhofer)
>       5. Re:  What is holding back 100 mbps (Gregory Maxwell)
>       6. Re:  What is holding back 100 mbps (J.D. Bakker)
>       7. Re:  What is holding back 100 mbps (Daniel Strnad)
>       8. Re:  What is holding back 100 mbps (Gregory Maxwell)
>       9. Re:  What is holding back 100 mbps (alex dinovitser)
>
>
>     ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>     Message: 1
>     Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 13:11:00 +0100
>     From: "J.D. Bakker" <jdb na lartmaker.nl <mailto:jdb na lartmaker.nl>>
>     Subject: Re: [Ronja] What is holding back 100 mbps
>     To: Twibright Ronja <ronja na lists.pointless.net
>     <mailto:ronja na lists.pointless.net>>
>     Message-ID: <p0624052ec3e31a35c4dd@[130.161.115.44
>     <http://130.161.115.44>]>
>     Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
>
>     >---- Deepak Mishra <xask.linus na gmail.com
>     <mailto:xask.linus na gmail.com>> schrieb:
>     >>  Hi people,
>     >>  100 Mbps open source FSO, I think would revolutionize the
>     wireless link
>     >>  scene.
>     >>  I am really confused as to what is really holding back the
>     development of
>     >>  100 Mbps RONJA, even when every thing is open source and free.
>     >
>     >The fact that I have to go to work? Anyone has resources to pay one
>     >developer fulltime?
>
>     What Clock said.
>
>     I have a prototype PCB for a 100MHz RX/TX unit but simply have had no
>     time to test/tweak/enhance it. LED fall time is the issue so far; I
>     know what to do about it, but (payed) work takes precedence over a
>     GPLed project.
>
>     JDB
>     [already have a kit/prebuilt boards deal set up with my commercial
>     partners in Taiwan]
>     --
>     LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files.
>     http://www.lartmaker.nl/
>
>
>
>     ------------------------------
>
>     Message: 2
>     Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 13:19:11 +0100
>     From: "J.D. Bakker" <jdb na lartmaker.nl <mailto:jdb na lartmaker.nl>>
>     Subject: Re: [Ronja] What is holding back 100 mbps
>     To: Twibright Ronja <ronja na lists.pointless.net
>     <mailto:ronja na lists.pointless.net>>
>     Message-ID: <p06240530c3e31c4d42ac@[130.161.115.44
>     <http://130.161.115.44>]>
>     Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
>
>     >  > > I start this thread to exactly pin point the problems of a 100
>     >Mbps RONJA.
>     >>  > Let us reach to a conclusion as to what exactly must be
>     modified.
>     >>  >
>     >>  > Let us start with the LED,
>     >>  > 1. To transmit at 100 mbps,we must find an LED which can
>     switch on and off
>     >>  > in 1 ns.
>     >that's not neccessariliy true. if you wanna use 2-level encoded
>     >signals like now ,you'd run into several problems.
>     >first is you would have to change the encoding of the MLT3 signal to
>     >2-level signal which is suited for optical transmission. in easiest
>     >case manchester code.
>     >which would result in a 0.5ns signal-time.
>
>     Why does a 100Mbit Manchester encoded signal (with 10ns per bit) have
>     a 0.5ns signal-time? Methinks you are off by an order of magnitude.
>
>     JDB
>     [not that you'd want to use Manchester if you can help it...]
>     --
>     LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files.
>     http://www.lartmaker.nl/
>
>
>
>     ------------------------------
>
>     Message: 3
>     Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:06:14 +0100
>     From: Pavel Krejci <krepa na seznam.cz <mailto:krepa na seznam.cz>>
>     Subject: Re: [Ronja] What is holding back 100 mbps
>     To: Twibright Ronja <ronja na lists.pointless.net
>     <mailto:ronja na lists.pointless.net>>
>     Message-ID: <47BDBD96.7030505 na seznam.cz
>     <mailto:47BDBD96.7030505 na seznam.cz>>
>     Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>     An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>     URL:
>     http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20080221/9cc0d683/attachment-0001.html
>
>     ------------------------------
>
>     Message: 4
>     Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 21:59:35 +0100
>     From: Thomas Egenhofer <antitron na web.de <mailto:antitron na web.de>>
>     Subject: Re: [Ronja] What is holding back 100 mbps
>     To: ronja na lists.pointless.net <mailto:ronja na lists.pointless.net>
>     Message-ID: <1203627575.4502.8.camel na localhost.localdomain
>     <mailto:1203627575.4502.8.camel na localhost.localdomain>>
>     Content-Type: text/plain
>
>
>     > Hi all,
>     > The discussion so far
>     >
>     > Saad Shakeel says
>     >     2. Need equally fast photodiode and 74xx ics
>     >     3. faster ne592 alternate as it only works at 10nS
>     >     4. we might be able to use the bf908 since it supports upto
>     1 GHz.
>     >
>     > Thomas Egenhofer says
>     > - Think over encoding technique
>     >     1. 2 level encoding at 100 mbps could run into problems.
>     >     2. 2 level encoding would require rise and fall times of .5ns !
>     sorry.. looks like a zero shifted around in my brain. should be 5ns i
>     think..
>
>
>     >     3. MLT3, coming from the LAN card could be used (30ns),
>     requiring in
>     > rise and fall times of 15ns of LED
>     >     4. It would require redesigning the transmitter
>     i dont belive you can skipp this if used with 2level encoding^^ also
>     keep in mind that signal-times of 10ns are quite tricky to handle.
>     even
>     fast logic can easily produce a delay of up to 15ns which can
>     cause many
>     problems with signal-timing in general.
>
>     >     5. He already has a prototype MTL3 reciever at
>     > http://home.arcor.de/positiveelectron/files/MLT-3-receiver.png
>     >
>     > Meanwhile CD930 shows us he already has a 100 Mbps version, but
>     alas the in
>     > the clutches of proprietary license
>     >     He has videos at
>     >     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9h3hDm32kv4
>     >      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcjaJhMHcNk
>     >
>     > and even better people like Jim Thompson are waiting to be
>     convinced to
>     > finance a 100 Mbps version.
>     >
>     >
>     > What are we waiting for ?
>
>
>
>
>
>     ------------------------------
>
>     Message: 5
>     Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 16:06:35 -0500
>     From: "Gregory Maxwell" <gmaxwell na gmail.com
>     <mailto:gmaxwell na gmail.com>>
>     Subject: Re: [Ronja] What is holding back 100 mbps
>     To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja na lists.pointless.net
>     <mailto:ronja na lists.pointless.net>>
>     Message-ID:
>           
>     <e692861c0802211306q5764399fuc5bd1e92bb70c18b na mail.gmail.com
>     <mailto:e692861c0802211306q5764399fuc5bd1e92bb70c18b na mail.gmail.com>>
>     Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
>     On Wed, Feb 20, 2008 at 4:20 PM, Thomas Egenhofer <antitron na web.de
>     <mailto:antitron na web.de>> wrote:
>     [snip]
>     >  first is you would have to change the encoding of the MLT3
>     signal to 2-level signal which is suited for optical transmission.
>     in easiest case manchester code.
>
>     This makes no sense to me. Going to a higher encoding level should
>     trade bandpass for SNR (and linearity) requirements.
>
>     It might not be a huge win given the channel characteristics, but
>     saying that it would need several orders of magnitude more bandwidth
>     (which is what saying .5ns rise time is saying)
>
>     With a proper EQ (which would be easy with an all digital
>     modulator/demodulator) higher level encoding should work well across
>     the optical channel.
>
>
>
>     ------------------------------
>
>     Message: 6
>     Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 22:32:36 +0100
>     From: "J.D. Bakker" <jdb na lartmaker.nl <mailto:jdb na lartmaker.nl>>
>     Subject: Re: [Ronja] What is holding back 100 mbps
>     To: Twibright Ronja <ronja na lists.pointless.net
>     <mailto:ronja na lists.pointless.net>>
>     Message-ID: <p06240535c3e39dc69b50@[130.161.115.44
>     <http://130.161.115.44>]>
>     Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
>
>     >With a proper EQ (which would be easy with an all digital
>     >modulator/demodulator)
>
>     In dedicated silicon or a larger FPGA, yes. In gates or discrete
>     hardware, not so much.
>
>     JDB
>     [ran into this when designing a 100Mbps synchronizer, which is quite
>     a bit easier than an EQ. For ASICs this is a solved problem, but I
>     wanted/needed to do it in commercially available gates]
>     --
>     LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files.
>     http://www.lartmaker.nl/
>
>
>
>     ------------------------------
>
>     Message: 7
>     Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 22:35:39 +0100
>     From: "Daniel Strnad" <daniel.strnad na tiscali.cz
>     <mailto:daniel.strnad na tiscali.cz>>
>     Subject: Re: [Ronja] What is holding back 100 mbps
>     To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja na lists.pointless.net
>     <mailto:ronja na lists.pointless.net>>
>     Message-ID: <op.t6v8xpt2n6qjls na daman>
>     Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=utf-8
>
>     Hi all,
>     I am not very interrested in topic for some time, but I have few fast,
>     suitable for 100Mbps, photodiodes. I planned some design with it,
>     but now
>     I offer it for experiments to you. It's FCI-HR008
>     (http://www.datasheetarchive.com/pdf/1382205.pdf). It has capacitance
>     0.8pF at 5V! Price: 1 000CZK (40?) per piece.
>
>     DS
>
>
>
>     ------------------------------
>
>     Message: 8
>     Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 16:36:08 -0500
>     From: "Gregory Maxwell" <gmaxwell na gmail.com
>     <mailto:gmaxwell na gmail.com>>
>     Subject: Re: [Ronja] What is holding back 100 mbps
>     To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja na lists.pointless.net
>     <mailto:ronja na lists.pointless.net>>
>     Message-ID:
>           
>     <e692861c0802211336n22170588s79deb3def160857f na mail.gmail.com
>     <mailto:e692861c0802211336n22170588s79deb3def160857f na mail.gmail.com>>
>     Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
>     On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 4:32 PM, J.D. Bakker <jdb na lartmaker.nl
>     <mailto:jdb na lartmaker.nl>> wrote:
>     > >With a proper EQ (which would be easy with an all digital
>     >  >modulator/demodulator)
>     >
>     >  In dedicated silicon or a larger FPGA, yes. In gates or discrete
>     >  hardware, not so much.
>
>     Yes. mac->fpga->adc/dac->current amp.  Solved. But making that
>     inexpensive? ... :-/
>
>
>
>     ------------------------------
>
>     Message: 9
>     Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 22:59:07 -0800 (PST)
>     From: alex dinovitser <adinov na yahoo.com <mailto:adinov na yahoo.com>>
>     Subject: Re: [Ronja] What is holding back 100 mbps
>     To: Twibright Ronja <ronja na lists.pointless.net
>     <mailto:ronja na lists.pointless.net>>
>     Message-ID: <293348.55216.qm na web32708.mail.mud.yahoo.com
>     <mailto:293348.55216.qm na web32708.mail.mud.yahoo.com>>
>     Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
>     This is surely analogous to the high speed fiber communications
>     such as DWDM.
>     The current standard here is 10Gb/s per channel. That corresponds
>     to an
>     electrical bandwidth of at least 5GHz. These optical devices are
>     specified to
>     10GHz.
>
>     The diodes required for this application need to have a very low
>     capacitance.
>     This capacitance (almost) solely determines the speed of the resulting
>     transimpedance amplifier.
>     A diode's capacitance depends on its area. It also depends on the
>     applied
>     reverse voltage. However, it would be wrong to use and avalanche
>     diode in
>     avalanche mode! This diode detects individual photons, and each
>     event has a
>     'quench time' (it works very similar in principle to a
>     geiger-muller tube)
>     which means they will saturate with very low ambient light levels!
>
>     Avalanche type diodes can be suitable if operated at lower voltage
>     because of
>     their small area and a wide pIn channel that results in lower
>     capacitance. They
>     are very expensive however.
>
>     The small area for a suitably fast RONJA diode might requires some
>     thought of
>     the optical system.
>
>     I still think the best detector theoretically would be a
>     pyroelectric device.
>     No suitable affortable devices so far:-(
>
>
>     AD
>
>
>     --- Pavel Krejci <krepa na seznam.cz <mailto:krepa na seznam.cz>> wrote:
>
>
>     ---------------------------------
>     Can you tell us, please, at least which chipset from MAXIM it is?
>     Thanks
>
>     PK
>
>     CD930 napsal(a):        Sorry...no, maybe later. But...TX,RXis
>     MAXIM chipset,
>     mediaconvertor MARVELL 1108  (beforeused Micro-Linear), laser is
>     870nm/10mW and
>     photodiode is PDB-C102.
>     Tested (tx lens 11cm, rx fresnellens 20cm) on 2500m. RSSI go to AD
>     and Atmel
>     CPU (LCD and RS232c).
>     M.
>
>          -----Original Message -----
>        From:    Deepak Mishra
>        To:    Twibright Ronja
>        Sent:Thursday, February 21, 2008 9:48 AM
>        Subject:Re: [Ronja] What is holding back 100 mbps
>
>
>     Hi CD930,
>     Sure dont release the PCB, but you could give us suggestions
>     onimproving the
>     RONJA design to 100 Mbps.
>     You could point us in the right direction, like the
>     modulationtechnique to use,
>     coding technique, or LED used ,or lasers, otherpitfalls you
>     encountered ?
>     Would you like to support a "free" cause ?
>
>     Regards,
>     Deepak
>
>        On 21/02/2008, CD930 <cd930 na centrum.cz
>     <mailto:cd930 na centrum.cz>> wrote:    HiVladimir.
>     Sorry, this development was for one firm from our city.
>     I must not publish circuit PCB  :(
>     But....some ideas i am here publish along the years.
>
>     In future looking on 1Gpbs..... avalanche photodiode with 200V dc :)))
>     roung again  toy gadget.
>
>     Martin
>
>
>
>
>
>     ----- Original Message -----
>     From: "Vladimir Obradovic" <lepiaf na bgwireless.net
>     <mailto:lepiaf na bgwireless.net>>
>     To: "ronja-request na lists.pointless.net
>     <mailto:ronja-request na lists.pointless.net>"<ronja na lists.pointless.net
>     <mailto:ronja na lists.pointless.net>>
>     Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 1:35 AM
>     Subject: Re: [Ronja] What is holding back 100 mbps
>
>
>     >
>
>     >> From: "CD930" <cd930 na centrum.cz <mailto:cd930 na centrum.cz>>
>     >> I tested on MAXIM and MARVELL chip-set....
>     >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9h3hDm32kv4
>     >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcjaJhMHcNk
>     >
>     >> TX can by IR-LED, but with short peak to 1ns......
>     >> http://www.roithner-laser.com/LED_MID_IR.htm    or
>     >> http://www.roithner-laser.com/LED_HP_single_chip.html
>     >
>     >> I am after tested go to laser diode, it is simply.
>     >> Martin
>     >
>     > Nice demo Martin, is there some chance that documentation, tips or
>     > howtos be available about this project some time in future? Anyplans
>     > for some kind of open hardware licence like Ronja is, or it will be
>     > yet another of those projects that inherit Ronja's ideas/hw,
>     showsome
>     > good
>     > stuff and then go into some factory for big bucks only :) ? Nowonder
>     > why Cl always gets upset when ppl start asking about 100mbps orxtra
>     > range versions :)
>     >
>     > cya
>     > LePiaf
>     >
>     >
>     > --
>     > Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com
>     > Ronja na lists.pointless.net <mailto:Ronja na lists.pointless.net>
>     > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>     >
>     >
>
>
>     --
>     Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com
>          Ronja na lists.pointless.net <mailto:Ronja na lists.pointless.net>
>          http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>
>
>
>
>
>     ---------------------------------
>     --
>     Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com
>     Ronja na lists.pointless.net <mailto:Ronja na lists.pointless.net>
>     http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>     > --
>     > Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com
>     > Ronja na lists.pointless.net <mailto:Ronja na lists.pointless.net>
>     > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>     >
>
>
>
>         
>     ____________________________________________________________________________________
>     Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page.
>     http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
>
>
>
>     ------------------------------
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     Ronja mailing list
>     Ronja na lists.pointless.net <mailto:Ronja na lists.pointless.net>
>     http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>
>
>     End of Ronja Digest, Vol 58, Issue 13
>     *************************************
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Tel: +91 9940589851 



From wermut at gmail.com  Fri Feb 22 14:20:07 2008
From: wermut at gmail.com (Kevin Bortis)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 15:20:07 +0100
Subject: [Ronja] Ronja Digest, Vol 58, Issue 13
In-Reply-To: <50d3ad760802220024s4207f3bbpe22216486dc743fe@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.577.1203663555.24740.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
	<50d3ad760802220024s4207f3bbpe22216486dc743fe@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f76300bb0802220620h256eed20mb826762a67b11ff0@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Yaduvanshi,

Please consider the MAX3766 instead of the MAX3263, because the
MAX3263 has reached end of life.

Regards

On 2/22/08, Pramod yaduvanshi <pkyaduvanshi at gmail.com> wrote:
> I am working on a 100 mbps design based on ML6652 and LED driver is MAX3263
> and Reciver uses philips SA5211 as transimpedance Amplifier .Will be
> releasing first shematics in a day or two . I am planning to use VCSEL laser
> to begin with .
>
> Since ML6652 has autonegotiation feature all those will be no problem for
> 100mbps design . Only problem will be soldering ML6652  which will need
> specail facility and might not be possible in a home lab .
>
> PK Yaduvanshi
>
>
> On 22/02/2008, ronja-request at lists.pointless.net
> <ronja-request at lists.pointless.net> wrote:
> > Send Ronja mailing list submissions to
> >        ronja at lists.pointless.net
> >
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> >        http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> >        ronja-request at lists.pointless.net
> >
> > You can reach the person managing the list at
> >        ronja-owner at lists.pointless.net
> >
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of Ronja digest..."
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> >   1. Re:  What is holding back 100 mbps (J.D. Bakker)
> >   2. Re:  What is holding back 100 mbps (J.D. Bakker)
> >   3. Re:  What is holding back 100 mbps (Pavel Krejci)
> >   4. Re:  What is holding back 100 mbps (Thomas Egenhofer)
> >   5. Re:  What is holding back 100 mbps (Gregory Maxwell)
> >   6. Re:  What is holding back 100 mbps (J.D. Bakker)
> >   7. Re:  What is holding back 100 mbps (Daniel Strnad)
> >   8. Re:  What is holding back 100 mbps (Gregory Maxwell)
> >   9. Re:  What is holding back 100 mbps (alex dinovitser)
> >
> >
> >
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 13:11:00 +0100
> > From: "J.D. Bakker" <jdb at lartmaker.nl>
> > Subject: Re: [Ronja] What is holding back 100 mbps
> > To: Twibright Ronja <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
> > Message-ID: <p0624052ec3e31a35c4dd@[130.161.115.44]>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
> >
> > >---- Deepak Mishra <xask.linus at gmail.com> schrieb:
> > >>  Hi people,
> > >>  100 Mbps open source FSO, I think would revolutionize the wireless
> link
> > >>  scene.
> > >>  I am really confused as to what is really holding back the development
> of
> > >>  100 Mbps RONJA, even when every thing is open source and free.
> > >
> > >The fact that I have to go to work? Anyone has resources to pay one
> > >developer fulltime?
> >
> > What Clock said.
> >
> > I have a prototype PCB for a 100MHz RX/TX unit but simply have had no
> > time to test/tweak/enhance it. LED fall time is the issue so far; I
> > know what to do about it, but (payed) work takes precedence over a
> > GPLed project.
> >
> > JDB
> > [already have a kit/prebuilt boards deal set up with my commercial
> > partners in Taiwan]
> > --
> > LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files.
> > http://www.lartmaker.nl/
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 13:19:11 +0100
> > From: "J.D. Bakker" <jdb at lartmaker.nl>
> > Subject: Re: [Ronja] What is holding back 100 mbps
> > To: Twibright Ronja <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
> > Message-ID: <p06240530c3e31c4d42ac@[130.161.115.44]>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
> >
> > >  > > I start this thread to exactly pin point the problems of a 100
> > >Mbps RONJA.
> > >>  > Let us reach to a conclusion as to what exactly must be modified.
> > >>  >
> > >>  > Let us start with the LED,
> > >>  > 1. To transmit at 100 mbps,we must find an LED which can switch on
> and off
> > >>  > in 1 ns.
> > >that's not neccessariliy true. if you wanna use 2-level encoded
> > >signals like now ,you'd run into several problems.
> > >first is you would have to change the encoding of the MLT3 signal to
> > >2-level signal which is suited for optical transmission. in easiest
> > >case manchester code.
> > >which would result in a 0.5ns signal-time.
> >
> > Why does a 100Mbit Manchester encoded signal (with 10ns per bit) have
> > a 0.5ns signal-time? Methinks you are off by an order of magnitude.
> >
> > JDB
> > [not that you'd want to use Manchester if you can help it...]
> > --
> > LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files.
> > http://www.lartmaker.nl/
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:06:14 +0100
> > From: Pavel Krejci <krepa at seznam.cz>
> > Subject: Re: [Ronja] What is holding back 100 mbps
> > To: Twibright Ronja <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
> > Message-ID: <47BDBD96.7030505 at seznam.cz>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > URL:
> http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20080221/9cc0d683/attachment-0001.html
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 4
> > Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 21:59:35 +0100
> > From: Thomas Egenhofer <antitron at web.de>
> > Subject: Re: [Ronja] What is holding back 100 mbps
> > To: ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > Message-ID:
> <1203627575.4502.8.camel at localhost.localdomain>
> > Content-Type: text/plain
> >
> >
> > > Hi all,
> > > The discussion so far
> > >
> > > Saad Shakeel says
> > >     2. Need equally fast photodiode and 74xx ics
> > >     3. faster ne592 alternate as it only works at 10nS
> > >     4. we might be able to use the bf908 since it supports upto 1 GHz.
> > >
> > > Thomas Egenhofer says
> > > - Think over encoding technique
> > >     1. 2 level encoding at 100 mbps could run into problems.
> > >     2. 2 level encoding would require rise and fall times of .5ns !
> > sorry.. looks like a zero shifted around in my brain. should be 5ns i
> > think..
> >
> >
> > >     3. MLT3, coming from the LAN card could be used (30ns), requiring in
> > > rise and fall times of 15ns of LED
> > >     4. It would require redesigning the transmitter
> > i dont belive you can skipp this if used with 2level encoding^^ also
> > keep in mind that signal-times of 10ns are quite tricky to handle. even
> > fast logic can easily produce a delay of up to 15ns which can cause many
> > problems with signal-timing in general.
> >
> > >     5. He already has a prototype MTL3 reciever at
> > >
> http://home.arcor.de/positiveelectron/files/MLT-3-receiver.png
> > >
> > > Meanwhile CD930 shows us he already has a 100 Mbps version, but alas the
> in
> > > the clutches of proprietary license
> > >     He has videos at
> > >     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9h3hDm32kv4
> > >      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcjaJhMHcNk
> > >
> > > and even better people like Jim Thompson are waiting to be convinced to
> > > finance a 100 Mbps version.
> > >
> > >
> > > What are we waiting for ?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 5
> > Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 16:06:35 -0500
> > From: "Gregory Maxwell" <gmaxwell at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Ronja] What is holding back 100 mbps
> > To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
> > Message-ID:
> >
> <e692861c0802211306q5764399fuc5bd1e92bb70c18b at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> >
> > On Wed, Feb 20, 2008 at 4:20 PM, Thomas Egenhofer <antitron at web.de> wrote:
> > [snip]
> > >  first is you would have to change the encoding of the MLT3 signal to
> 2-level signal which is suited for optical transmission. in easiest case
> manchester code.
> >
> > This makes no sense to me. Going to a higher encoding level should
> > trade bandpass for SNR (and linearity) requirements.
> >
> > It might not be a huge win given the channel characteristics, but
> > saying that it would need several orders of magnitude more bandwidth
> > (which is what saying .5ns rise time is saying)
> >
> > With a proper EQ (which would be easy with an all digital
> > modulator/demodulator) higher level encoding should work well across
> > the optical channel.
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 6
> > Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 22:32:36 +0100
> > From: "J.D. Bakker" <jdb at lartmaker.nl>
> > Subject: Re: [Ronja] What is holding back 100 mbps
> > To: Twibright Ronja <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
> > Message-ID: <p06240535c3e39dc69b50@[130.161.115.44]>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
> >
> > >With a proper EQ (which would be easy with an all digital
> > >modulator/demodulator)
> >
> > In dedicated silicon or a larger FPGA, yes. In gates or discrete
> > hardware, not so much.
> >
> > JDB
> > [ran into this when designing a 100Mbps synchronizer, which is quite
> > a bit easier than an EQ. For ASICs this is a solved problem, but I
> > wanted/needed to do it in commercially available gates]
> > --
> > LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files.
> > http://www.lartmaker.nl/
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 7
> > Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 22:35:39 +0100
> > From: "Daniel Strnad" <daniel.strnad at tiscali.cz>
> > Subject: Re: [Ronja] What is holding back 100 mbps
> > To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
> > Message-ID: <op.t6v8xpt2n6qjls at daman>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=utf-8
> >
> > Hi all,
> > I am not very interrested in topic for some time, but I have few fast,
> > suitable for 100Mbps, photodiodes. I planned some design with it, but now
> > I offer it for experiments to you. It's FCI-HR008
> > (http://www.datasheetarchive.com/pdf/1382205.pdf). It has
> capacitance
> > 0.8pF at 5V! Price: 1 000CZK (40?) per piece.
> >
> > DS
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 8
> > Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 16:36:08 -0500
> > From: "Gregory Maxwell" <gmaxwell at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Ronja] What is holding back 100 mbps
> > To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
> > Message-ID:
> >
> <e692861c0802211336n22170588s79deb3def160857f at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> >
> > On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 4:32 PM, J.D. Bakker <jdb at lartmaker.nl> wrote:
> > > >With a proper EQ (which would be easy with an all digital
> > >  >modulator/demodulator)
> > >
> > >  In dedicated silicon or a larger FPGA, yes. In gates or discrete
> > >  hardware, not so much.
> >
> > Yes. mac->fpga->adc/dac->current amp.  Solved. But making that
> > inexpensive? ... :-/
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 9
> > Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 22:59:07 -0800 (PST)
> > From: alex dinovitser <adinov at yahoo.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Ronja] What is holding back 100 mbps
> > To: Twibright Ronja <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
> > Message-ID: <293348.55216.qm at web32708.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> >
> > This is surely analogous to the high speed fiber communications such as
> DWDM.
> > The current standard here is 10Gb/s per channel. That corresponds to an
> > electrical bandwidth of at least 5GHz. These optical devices are specified
> to
> > 10GHz.
> >
> > The diodes required for this application need to have a very low
> capacitance.
> > This capacitance (almost) solely determines the speed of the resulting
> > transimpedance amplifier.
> > A diode's capacitance depends on its area. It also depends on the applied
> > reverse voltage. However, it would be wrong to use and avalanche diode in
> > avalanche mode! This diode detects individual photons, and each event has
> a
> > 'quench time' (it works very similar in principle to a geiger-muller tube)
> > which means they will saturate with very low ambient light levels!
> >
> > Avalanche type diodes can be suitable if operated at lower voltage because
> of
> > their small area and a wide pIn channel that results in lower capacitance.
> They
> > are very expensive however.
> >
> > The small area for a suitably fast RONJA diode might requires some thought
> of
> > the optical system.
> >
> > I still think the best detector theoretically would be a pyroelectric
> device.
> > No suitable affortable devices so far:-(
> >
> >
> > AD
> >
> >
> > --- Pavel Krejci <krepa at seznam.cz> wrote:
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Can you tell us, please, at least which chipset from MAXIM it is?
> > Thanks
> >
> > PK
> >
> > CD930 napsal(a):        Sorry...no, maybe later. But...TX,RXis MAXIM
> chipset,
> > mediaconvertor MARVELL 1108  (beforeused Micro-Linear), laser is
> 870nm/10mW and
> > photodiode is PDB-C102.
> > Tested (tx lens 11cm, rx fresnellens 20cm) on 2500m. RSSI go to AD and
> Atmel
> > CPU (LCD and RS232c).
> > M.
> >
> >      -----Original Message -----
> >    From:    Deepak Mishra
> >    To:    Twibright Ronja
> >    Sent:Thursday, February 21, 2008 9:48 AM
> >    Subject:Re: [Ronja] What is holding back 100 mbps
> >
> >
> > Hi CD930,
> > Sure dont release the PCB, but you could give us suggestions onimproving
> the
> > RONJA design to 100 Mbps.
> > You could point us in the right direction, like the modulationtechnique to
> use,
> > coding technique, or LED used ,or lasers, otherpitfalls you encountered ?
> > Would you like to support a "free" cause ?
> >
> > Regards,
> > Deepak
> >
> >    On 21/02/2008, CD930 <cd930 at centrum.cz> wrote:    HiVladimir.
> > Sorry, this development was for one firm from our city.
> > I must not publish circuit PCB  :(
> > But....some ideas i am here publish along the years.
> >
> > In future looking on 1Gpbs..... avalanche photodiode with 200V dc :)))
> > roung again  toy gadget.
> >
> > Martin
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Vladimir Obradovic" <lepiaf at bgwireless.net>
> > To:
> "ronja-request at lists.pointless.net"<ronja at lists.pointless.net>
> > Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 1:35 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Ronja] What is holding back 100 mbps
> >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >> From: "CD930" <cd930 at centrum.cz>
> > >> I tested on MAXIM and MARVELL chip-set....
> > >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9h3hDm32kv4
> > >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcjaJhMHcNk
> > >
> > >> TX can by IR-LED, but with short peak to 1ns......
> > >> http://www.roithner-laser.com/LED_MID_IR.htm    or
> > >> http://www.roithner-laser.com/LED_HP_single_chip.html
> > >
> > >> I am after tested go to laser diode, it is simply.
> > >> Martin
> > >
> > > Nice demo Martin, is there some chance that documentation, tips or
> > > howtos be available about this project some time in future? Anyplans
> > > for some kind of open hardware licence like Ronja is, or it will be
> > > yet another of those projects that inherit Ronja's ideas/hw, showsome
> > > good
> > > stuff and then go into some factory for big bucks only :) ? Nowonder
> > > why Cl always gets upset when ppl start asking about 100mbps orxtra
> > > range versions :)
> > >
> > > cya
> > > LePiaf
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com
> > > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com
> >      Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> >      http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > --
> > Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com
> > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> > > --
> > > Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com
> > > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> > Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page.
> > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ronja mailing list
> > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> >
> >
> > End of Ronja Digest, Vol 58, Issue 13
> > *************************************
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Tel: +91 9940589851
> --
>  Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com
>  Ronja at lists.pointless.net
>  http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>
>


From pkyaduvanshi at gmail.com  Fri Feb 22 14:33:12 2008
From: pkyaduvanshi at gmail.com (Pramod yaduvanshi)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 20:03:12 +0530
Subject: [Ronja] 100 mbps FSO
Message-ID: <50d3ad760802220633k31e7bdi533c3135945b9930@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Kevin ,

I will just have a look at MAX3766 and see if i can modify my schematics . I
was looking for a good limiter and as suggested by Eldis i will try and use
MAX3657 for TIA, and MAX3645 because Philips is not ready to supply me
samples  and haven't seen any cheap limiter from Philips.

My Schematics for ML6652 are already ready just few modifications are needed
and  will try to use the new components as suggested by Eldis and you  . Why
i went for ML6652 is because they have already sent me four samples ... so
don't want to even look at other Media converters.

By the way my luxeon star Tx/Rx with 350mA drive current is working
perfectly as desired and I have put