From clock at twibright.com  Fri Sep  1 07:32:18 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 08:32:18 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] ronja as backbone
In-Reply-To: <001201c6ccf4$392d6280$f2464d3e@homec911b8ae22>
References: <44F6CA73.7070107@kbx.cz>
	<001201c6ccf4$392d6280$f2464d3e@homec911b8ae22>
Message-ID: <20060901063218.GA25949@kestrel.twibright.com>

On Thu, Aug 31, 2006 at 01:54:32PM +0200, Pavel Srnka wrote:
> Nevite prosim nekdo jak zalohovat ronji spoje wifinou bez pouziti linux 
> routru ? tzn necim na urovni switchu ?
> Stacila by treba podpora spaning tree protokolu ?

Spanning tree is supported by every switch AFAIK.

However if both are up it's probably not defined whether it goes over the WiFi
or Ronja. Maybe shutting down WiFi power with a relay when RSSI is strong
enough?

CL<
> 
> dekuju za radu...
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Jakub Sykora" <kubajz at kbx.cz>
> To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
> Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 1:39 PM
> Subject: Re: [Ronja] ronja as backbone
> 
> 
> Has anyone tried using of the BONDing device in Linux? AFAIK it should
> function a) as link aggregator b) high availability solution (if one of
> the slave links is down, you can be still use the rest slaves...
> 
> K
> 
> Karel Kulhavy napsal(a):
> > Yes you can aggregate the bandwidths together. But I think if it's not 
> > possible
> > that the network distributes the packets into the links. With OSPF or BGP
> > this is surely not possible as they choose always only one way for the 
> > data.
> >
> > You could maybe link aggregation over a virtual link created by tunnel
> > Linux could support this. Otherwise there may be some advanced, new or
> > experimental protocols I don't know about.
> >
> > If you have large or complicated enough network the traffic could balance
> > itself stochastically even with OSPF and BGP - data want to go the 
> > shortest way
> > and what is the shortest for one destination is not shortest for another.
> >
> > CL<
> >
> > On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 10:34:43PM -0400, kqj rocks wrote:
> >> I know the ronja can be used as an ethernet based internet backbone. If 
> >> this is true will I be able to use them for an internet backhaul system 
> >> to hop data from ronja to ronja and increase speed of internet data 
> >> transfer to route internet data over a mesh network.  since the ronja can 
> >> be used as an internet backbone can it be used to act as a 10mbps 
> >> backbone for an ultra-high speed network where the internet speed of the 
> >> wireless network is 10mbps x number of ronjas plus the speed of the mesh 
> >> network's  internet  connection  11mbps???  what is the total internet 
> >> speed a cilent recieves when connecting to this wi-fi mesh network???> 
> >> From: ronja-request at lists.pointless.net> Subject: Ronja Digest, Vol 40, 
> >> Issue 22> To: ronja at lists.pointless.net> Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 18:13:52 
> >> +0100> > Send Ronja mailing list submissions to> 
> >> ronja at lists.pointless.net> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World 
> >> Wide Web, visit> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> or, via 
> >> email, se
> nd a message with subject or body 'help' to> 
> ronja-request at lists.pointless.net> > You can reach the person managing the 
> list at> ronja-owner at lists.pointless.net> > When replying, please edit your 
> Subject line so it is more specific> than "Re: Contents of Ronja digest..."> 
>  > > Today's Topics:> >    1. Re:  Dalsi linka (Jakub Sykora)>    2. Re: 
> Dalsi linka (Karel Kulhavy)>    3. Re:  ronja (Karel Kulhavy)>    4. Re: 
> [SPAM] Re: ronja (Karel Kulhavy)>    5. Re:  Dalsi linka (-=RYS=-)> > 
>  > ----------------------------------------------------------------------> > 
> Message: 1> Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 13:33:21 +0200> From: Jakub Sykora 
> <kubajz at kbx.cz>> Subject: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> To: Twibright Ronja 
> <ronja at lists.pointless.net>> Message-ID: <44F57781.1050800 at kbx.cz>> 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2"> > Ne to nedelaji. Stejne tak 
> jsem nevidel kabel odolny proti blbcum :)> > K> > Karel Kulhavy napsal(a):> 
>  > On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 12:33:44AM +0200, Jakub Sykora wro
> te:> >> Mno kabely se takovy urcite delaji - staci se podivat treba do 
> katalogu > >> Beldenu na kbaely DataTuff, ktere jsou pro prumyslove uziti a 
> jejich > >> vrchni slupka se dela v provedenich: odolne proti UV, proti 
> Mazivum, > >> proti Chemikaliim atp...> > > > Delaj taky odolnou proti 
> Chuckovi Norrisovi a Jacku Bauerovi?> > > > CL<> >> Ale nechci ani vedet 
> kolik toho stoji metr...> >>> >> K> >>> >> Karel Kulhavy napsal(a):> >>> On 
> Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 11:46:33PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote:> >>>> Ten venkovni UTP 
> ma drat 0.62mm a dvojitou "buzirku" okolo "dratu". Taky> >>>> "buzirka" 
> okolo dratu je silnejsi.> >>> A je na tom natisteno "outdoor" nebo to 
> vyrobce v katalogu uvadi? Aby> >>> to nebyla nejaka ustni tradice - zatim se 
> mi te legende o existenci> >>> venkovniho UTP/STP moc verit nechce.> >>>> 
>  >>> CL<> >>>> Taky to ma dvojitej plast obal.> >>>> Vim, ze existuje i STP 
> verze.> >>>> Ja to mam od znameho....kde to sehnal..nevim.> >>>> Ale mam 
> dojem, ze jsem to videl v katalog
> u Alfatroniku.> >>>> Martin> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> 
> ______________________________________________________________> >>>>> Od: 
> clock at twibright.com> >>>>> Komu: Twibright Ronja 
> <ronja at lists.pointless.net>> >>>>> Datum: 28.08.2006 22:02> >>>>> P?edm?t: 
> Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> >>>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 09:01:06PM 
> +0200, -=RYS=- wrote:> >>>>>>> Vse je v provedeni venkovnim.> >>>>>> Ano, 
> existuje i UTP pro venkovni provedeni.> >>>>> Can you get STP for outdoor? 
> If yes, where? Or at least where you can get> >>>>> the outdoor UTP?> >>>>>> 
>  >>>>> CL<> >>>>>> Filtr do 40MHz proti ruseni jsem samozrejme udelal.> 
>  >>>>>> I kdyz si myslim, ze za 78S15 nic "neleze" (meril jsem to) .> >>>>>> 
> Martin> >>>>>>> 
> ______________________________________________________________> >>>>>>> Od: 
> clock at twibright.com> >>>>>>> Komu: Twibright Ronja 
> <ronja at lists.pointless.net>> >>>>>>> Datum: 28.08.2006 17:16> >>>>>>> 
> P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 
> 03:49:20PM +
> 0200, Cipis wrote:> >>>>>>>> Mno, ten chlap by pot?eboval do dr?ky, to je 
> fakt reprezentace jak > >>>>>>>> bl?zen.> >>>>>>>> S t?m datov?m kabelem to 
> nen? a? tak hork? - na t? posledn? fotce > >>>>>>>> hromosvod > jen k????, 
> ostatn? jsem moc ne?tudoval.> >>>>>>>> Sp?? to vypad? d?sn? hnusn?, na 
> providera, kter? to d?l? > >>>>>>>> profesion?ln?. I j? > bych dal ten 
> kousek do li?ty a od zdi k t?m > >>>>>>>> cajk?m bu? krk nebo takov? ten > 
> omot?vac? nesmysl.> >>>>>>> For ordinary Ronja it would be just esthetical 
> matter - if the coaxial > >>>>>>> cable is> >>>>>>> outdoor it doesn't 
> matter if it's just thrown on the roof.  Even if > >>>>>>> it's not> >>>>>>> 
> outdoor it affects just lifetime, not performance.  Anyway if you > >>>>>>> 
> install a TV> >>>>>>> antenna you also throw the cable on a roof and don't 
> use any plastic > >>>>>>> ducts.> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> RyS is using TP. TP can 
> rot through on the weather and the signal > >>>>>>> inside UTP> >>>>>>> can 
> be affected electromagn
> etically by pooling water even without > >>>>>>> insulation> >>>>>>> breach. 
> That's why I didn't put TP cable into the guide. In case of a > >>>>>>> TP 
> cable> >>>>>>> plastic ducts can have a technical benefit.> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> 
> When we installed Ronja we used outdoor coaxials and left them just > 
>  >>>>>>> lying on> >>>>>>> the tin roof. Sometimes we used plastic ties to 
> bundle cables together.> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> CL<> >>>>>> 
> _______________________________________________> >>>>>> Ronja mailing list> 
>  >>>>>> Ronja at lists.pointless.net> >>>>>> 
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> >>>>> 
> _______________________________________________> >>>>> Ronja mailing list> 
>  >>>>> Ronja at lists.pointless.net> >>>>> 
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> >>>>>> >>>> 
> _______________________________________________> >>>> Ronja mailing list> 
>  >>>> Ronja at lists.pointless.net> >>>> 
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> >>>> >>> 
> _______________________________________________> >>> Ronja
>  mailing list> >>> Ronja at lists.pointless.net> >>> 
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> >> -- > >> Jakub S?kora> >> 
> email: kubajz at kbx.cz       <')> >> ICQ: 68976632               ( =-> >> 
> mobil: +420 777 594 201      ''> > > >> begin:vcard> >> 
> fn;quoted-printable:Jakub S=C3=BDkora> >> 
> n;quoted-printable:S=C3=BDkora;Jakub> >> 
> adr;quoted-printable:;;=C3=9Adoln=C3=AD 1273;Praha 4;;14200;Czech Republic> 
>  >> email;internet:kubajz at kbx.cz> >> tel;cell:+420 777 594 201> >> 
> url:http://kubajz.kbx.cz> >> version:2.1> >> end:vcard> >>> > > >> 
> _______________________________________________> >> Ronja mailing list> >> 
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net> >> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> > 
>  > > > > _______________________________________________> > Ronja mailing 
> list> > Ronja at lists.pointless.net> > 
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> > -- > Jakub S?kora> email: 
> kubajz at kbx.cz       <')> ICQ: 68976632               ( =-> mobil: +420 777 
> 594 201      ''> -------------- next
> part --------------> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...> Name: 
> kubajz.vcf> Type: text/x-vcard> Size: 265 bytes> Desc: not available> Url : 
> http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20060830/5847c7ac/attachment-0001.vcf > 
>  > ------------------------------> > Message: 2> Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 
> 14:29:53 +0200> From: Karel Kulhavy <clock at twibright.com>> Subject: Re: 
> [Ronja] Dalsi linka> To: Twibright Ronja <ronja at lists.pointless.net>> 
> Message-ID: <20060830122953.GA19221 at kestrel.twibright.com>> Content-Type: 
> text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1> > On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 12:34:24PM 
> +0200, -=RYS=- wrote:> > Je to podobne jako venkovnimu koaxu, 2x "buzirka" 
> okolo.> > Ta dvojita buzirka je kolem kazdyho dratku a nebo kolem celyho 
> toho kabelu?> > CL<> > Napsano tam neni nic, ale odhaduji, ze je to pro 
> ven.> > Martin> > > > 
> ______________________________________________________________> > > Od: 
> clock at twibright.com> > > Komu: Twibright Ronja <ronja at lists.pointless.net>> 
>  > > Datum: 30
> .08.2006 00:16> > > P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> > >> > >On Mon, Aug 
> 28, 2006 at 11:46:33PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote:> > >> Ten venkovni UTP ma drat 
> 0.62mm a dvojitou "buzirku" okolo "dratu". Taky> > >> "buzirka" okolo dratu 
> je silnejsi.> > >> > >A je na tom natisteno "outdoor" nebo to vyrobce v 
> katalogu uvadi? Aby> > >to nebyla nejaka ustni tradice - zatim se mi te 
> legende o existenci> > >venkovniho UTP/STP moc verit nechce.> > >> > >CL<> > 
>  >> Taky to ma dvojitej plast obal.> > >> Vim, ze existuje i STP verze.> > >> 
> Ja to mam od znameho....kde to sehnal..nevim.> > >> Ale mam dojem, ze jsem 
> to videl v katalogu Alfatroniku.> > >> Martin> > >> > > 
> ______________________________________________________________> > >> > Od: 
> clock at twibright.com> > >> > Komu: Twibright Ronja 
> <ronja at lists.pointless.net>> > >> > Datum: 28.08.2006 22:02> > >> > P?edm?t: 
> Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> > >> >> > >> >On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 09:01:06PM 
> +0200, -=RYS=- wrote:> > >> >> > Vse je v provedeni venkovn
> im.> > >> >> Ano, existuje i UTP pro venkovni provedeni.> > >> >> > >> >Can 
> you get STP for outdoor? If yes, where? Or at least where you can get> > >> 
>  >the outdoor UTP?> > >> >> > >> >CL<> > >> >> Filtr do 40MHz proti ruseni 
> jsem samozrejme udelal.> > >> >> I kdyz si myslim, ze za 78S15 nic "neleze" 
> (meril jsem to) .> > >> >> Martin> > >> >> > 
> ______________________________________________________________> > >> >> > 
> Od: clock at twibright.com> > >> >> > Komu: Twibright Ronja 
> <ronja at lists.pointless.net>> > >> >> > Datum: 28.08.2006 17:16> > >> >> > 
> P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> > >> >> >> > >> >> >On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 
> at 03:49:20PM +0200, Cipis wrote:> > >> >> >> Mno, ten chlap by pot?eboval 
> do dr?ky, to je fakt reprezentace jak bl?zen.> > >> >> >> S t?m datov?m 
> kabelem to nen? a? tak hork? - na t? posledn? fotce hromosvod > jen k????, 
> ostatn? jsem moc ne?tudoval.> > >> >> >> Sp?? to vypad? d?sn? hnusn?, na 
> providera, kter? to d?l? profesion?ln?. I j? > bych dal ten kousek d
> o li?ty a od zdi k t?m cajk?m bu? krk nebo takov? ten > omot?vac? nesmysl.> 
>  > >> >> >> > >> >> >For ordinary Ronja it would be just esthetical matter - 
> if the coaxial cable is> > >> >> >outdoor it doesn't matter if it's just 
> thrown on the roof. ?Even if it's not> > >> >> >outdoor it affects just 
> lifetime, not performance. ?Anyway if you install a TV> > >> >> >antenna you 
> also throw the cable on a roof and don't use any plastic ducts.> > >> >> >> 
>  > >> >> >RyS is using TP. TP can rot through on the weather and the signal 
> inside UTP> > >> >> >can be affected electromagnetically by pooling water 
> even without insulation> > >> >> >breach. ?That's why I didn't put TP cable 
> into the guide. In case of a TP cable> > >> >> >plastic ducts can have a 
> technical benefit.> > >> >> >> > >> >> >When we installed Ronja we used 
> outdoor coaxials and left them just lying on> > >> >> >the tin roof. 
> Sometimes we used plastic ties to bundle cables together.> > >> >> >> > >> 
>  >> >CL<> > >> >> > > > >>
> _______________________________________________> > >> >> Ronja mailing list> 
>  > >> >> Ronja at lists.pointless.net> > >> >> 
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> > >> >> > >> >> > >> 
>  >_______________________________________________> > >> >Ronja mailing list> 
>  > >> >Ronja at lists.pointless.net> > >> 
>  >http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> > >> > > > > > >> 
> _______________________________________________> > >> Ronja mailing list> > 
>  >> Ronja at lists.pointless.net> > >> 
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> > >> > >> > 
>  >_______________________________________________> > >Ronja mailing list> > 
>  >Ronja at lists.pointless.net> > >http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> 
>  > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________> > Ronja 
> mailing list> > Ronja at lists.pointless.net> > 
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> > > > 
>  > ------------------------------> > Message: 3> Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 
> 15:31:37 +0200> From: Karel Kulhavy <clock at twibright.com>> Subjec
> t: Re: [Ronja] ronja> To: Mark Oldham <marko at idsystemsuk.co.uk>> Cc: 
> Twibright Ronja <ronja at lists.pointless.net>> Message-ID: 
> <20060830133137.GA20676 at kestrel.twibright.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; 
> charset=us-ascii> > On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 12:27:28PM +0100, Mark Oldham 
> wrote:> > hello karel> > > > i came accross this 
> http://ronja.twibright.com/models.php> > > > im very interested in prices> > 
> I am just developing and publishing, not manufacturing and selling. But 
> someone> on mailing list said he wants to sell a used device.> > > > > if i 
> understand correct you can transmit ethernet data transparently with> > this 
> method> > yes.> > CL<> > > > best regards> > > > mark> > > 
>  > ------------------------------> > Message: 4> Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 
> 18:25:58 +0200> From: Karel Kulhavy <clock at twibright.com>> Subject: Re: 
> [Ronja] [SPAM] Re: ronja> To: marko <marko at idsystemsuk.co.uk>> Cc: Twibright 
> Ronja <ronja at lists.pointless.net>> Message-ID: 
> <20060830162558.GB1857 at kestrel.twibrigh
> t.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii> > On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 
> at 03:55:46PM +0100, marko wrote:> > I am just developing and publishing, 
> not manufacturing and selling. But > > someone> > >on mailing list said he 
> wants to sell a used device.> > > > do you have this persons contact 
> details> > I don't remember. But I sent the reply there so if he's 
> interested I guess> he'll write you.  He's from Czech Republic. Maybe there 
> were even two persons> like this, I am not sure.> > CL<> > > > thanks> > 
> mark> > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Karel Kulhavy" 
> <clock at twibright.com>> > To: "Mark Oldham" <marko at idsystemsuk.co.uk>> > Cc: 
> "Twibright Ronja" <ronja at lists.pointless.net>> > Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 
> 2006 2:31 PM> > Subject: [SPAM] Re: ronja> > > > > > >On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 
> at 12:27:28PM +0100, Mark Oldham wrote:> > >>hello karel> > >>> > >>i came 
> accross this http://ronja.twibright.com/models.php> > >>> > >>im very 
> interested in prices> > >> > >I am just d
> eveloping and publishing, not manufacturing and selling. But > > >someone> > 
>  >on mailing list said he wants to sell a used device.> > >> > >>> > >>if i 
> understand correct you can transmit ethernet data transparently with> > 
>  >>this method> > >> > >yes.> > >> > >CL<> > >>> > >>best regards> > >>> > 
>  >>mark > > > > ------------------------------> > Message: 5> Date: Wed, 30 
> Aug 2006 19:13:14 +0200> From: "-=RYS=-" <cd930 at centrum.cz>> Subject: Re: 
> [Ronja] Dalsi linka> To: <ronja at lists.pointless.net>> Message-ID: 
> <200608301913.1144 at centrum.cz>> Content-Type: text/plain; 
> charset="windows-1250"> > Kolem celeho kabelu.> > 
> ______________________________________________________________> > Od: 
> clock at twibright.com> > Komu: Twibright Ronja <ronja at lists.pointless.net>> > 
> Datum: 30.08.2006 14:30> > P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> >> >On Wed, Aug 
> 30, 2006 at 12:34:24PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote:> >> Je to podobne jako 
> venkovnimu koaxu, 2x "buzirka" okolo.> >> >Ta dvojita buzirka je kolem 
> kazdyho
>  dratku a nebo kolem celyho toho kabelu?> >> >CL<> >> Napsano tam neni nic, 
> ale odhaduji, ze je to pro ven.> >> Martin> >> > 
> ______________________________________________________________> >> > Od: 
> clock at twibright.com> >> > Komu: Twibright Ronja <ronja at lists.pointless.net>> 
>  >> > Datum: 30.08.2006 00:16> >> > P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> >> >> 
>  >> >On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 11:46:33PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote:> >> >> Ten 
> venkovni UTP ma drat 0.62mm a dvojitou "buzirku" okolo "dratu". Taky> >> >> 
> "buzirka" okolo dratu je silnejsi.> >> >> >> >A je na tom natisteno 
> "outdoor" nebo to vyrobce v katalogu uvadi? Aby> >> >to nebyla nejaka ustni 
> tradice - zatim se mi te legende o existenci> >> >venkovniho UTP/STP moc 
> verit nechce.> >> >> >> >CL<> >> >> Taky to ma dvojitej plast obal.> >> >> 
> Vim, ze existuje i STP verze.> >> >> Ja to mam od znameho....kde to 
> sehnal..nevim.> >> >> Ale mam dojem, ze jsem to videl v katalogu 
> Alfatroniku.> >> >> Martin> >> >> > > _____________________________
> _________________________________> >> >> > Od: clock at twibright.com> >> >> > 
> Komu: Twibright Ronja <ronja at lists.pointless.net>> >> >> > Datum: 28.08.2006 
> 22:02> >> >> > P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> >> >> >> >> >> >On Mon, Aug 
> 28, 2006 at 09:01:06PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote:> >> >> >> > Vse je v provedeni 
> venkovnim.> >> >> >> Ano, existuje i UTP pro venkovni provedeni.> >> >> >> 
>  >> >> >Can you get STP for outdoor? If yes, where? Or at least where you can 
> get> >> >> >the outdoor UTP?> >> >> >> >> >> >CL<> >> >> >> Filtr do 40MHz 
> proti ruseni jsem samozrejme udelal.> >> >> >> I kdyz si myslim, ze za 78S15 
> nic "neleze" (meril jsem to) .> >> >> >> Martin> >> >> >> > 
> ______________________________________________________________> >> >> >> > 
> Od: clock at twibright.com> >> >> >> > Komu: Twibright Ronja 
> <ronja at lists.pointless.net>> >> >> >> > Datum: 28.08.2006 17:16> >> >> >> > 
> P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 
> at 03:49:20PM +0200, Cipis wrote:>
>  >> >> >> >> Mno, ten chlap by pot?eboval do dr?ky, to je fakt reprezentace 
> jak bl?zen.> >> >> >> >> S t?m datov?m kabelem to nen? a? tak hork? - na t? 
> posledn? fotce hromosvod > jen k????, ostatn? jsem moc ne?tudoval.> >> >> >> 
>  >> Sp?? to vypad? d?sn? hnusn?, na providera, kter? to d?l? profesion?ln?. I 
> j? > bych dal ten kousek do li?ty a od zdi k t?m cajk?m bu? krk nebo takov? 
> ten > omot?vac? nesmysl.> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >For ordinary Ronja it would 
> be just esthetical matter - if the coaxial cable is> >> >> >> >outdoor it 
> doesn't matter if it's just thrown on the roof. ?Even if it's not> >> >> >> 
>  >outdoor it affects just lifetime, not performance. ?Anyway if you install a 
> TV> >> >> >> >antenna you also throw the cable on a roof and don't use any 
> plastic ducts.> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >RyS is using TP. TP can rot through on 
> the weather and the signal inside UTP> >> >> >> >can be affected 
> electromagnetically by pooling water even without insulation> >> >> >> 
>  >breach. ?That's
> why I didn't put TP cable into the guide. In case of a TP cable> >> >> >> 
>  >plastic ducts can have a technical benefit.> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >When we 
> installed Ronja we used outdoor coaxials and left them just lying on> >> >> 
>  >> >the tin roof. Sometimes we used plastic ties to bundle cables together.> 
>  >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >CL<> >> >> >> > > > >> 
> _______________________________________________> >> >> >> Ronja mailing 
> list> >> >> >> Ronja at lists.pointless.net> >> >> >> 
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> 
>  >_______________________________________________> >> >> >Ronja mailing list> 
>  >> >> >Ronja at lists.pointless.net> >> >> 
>  >http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> >> >> > > > > >> 
> _______________________________________________> >> >> Ronja mailing list> 
>  >> >> Ronja at lists.pointless.net> >> >> 
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> >> >> >> >> >> 
>  >_______________________________________________> >> >Ronja mailing list> >> 
>  >Ronja at lists.pointl
> ess.net> >> >http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> >> > > > > >> 
> _______________________________________________> >> Ronja mailing list> >> 
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net> >> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> 
>  >> >> >_______________________________________________> >Ronja mailing list> 
>  >Ronja at lists.pointless.net> >http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> > 
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> End of Ronja Digest, Vol 40, Issue 22> *************************************
> >> _________________________________________________________________
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> -- 
> Jakub S?kora
> email: kubajz at kbx.cz       <')
> ICQ: 68976632               ( =-
> mobil: +420 777 594 201      ''
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From kubajz at kbx.cz  Fri Sep  1 08:36:30 2006
From: kubajz at kbx.cz (Jakub Sykora)
Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 09:36:30 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] ronja as backbone
In-Reply-To: <20060901063218.GA25949@kestrel.twibright.com>
References: <44F6CA73.7070107@kbx.cz>	<001201c6ccf4$392d6280$f2464d3e@homec911b8ae22>
	<20060901063218.GA25949@kestrel.twibright.com>
Message-ID: <44F7E2FE.3050805@kbx.cz>

No, spanning tree protocol is not supported by every switch. Only more 
advanced switches are equipped with this. Then you can set cost for each 
port, that allows you to say which path to use and which path to use if 
Ronja is not transmitting data. It is similar to routing at L3, but it 
is done at L2.

The proof, that cheap switches do not support STP is fact, when you 
connect a patch cable as a loopback from one port to another, the switch 
will probably stop working or in better case malfunction. I saw it once 
when we were redesigning our LAN, we incidentally connected our lan so 
it formed a cycle (cycle meant as a Hamiltonian cycle from graph 
theory). The whole LAN began to malfunction. STP solves this problem by 
cutting the last segment of the cycle.

K

Karel Kulhavy wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 31, 2006 at 01:54:32PM +0200, Pavel Srnka wrote:
>> Nevite prosim nekdo jak zalohovat ronji spoje wifinou bez pouziti linux 
>> routru ? tzn necim na urovni switchu ?
>> Stacila by treba podpora spaning tree protokolu ?
> 
> Spanning tree is supported by every switch AFAIK.
> 
> However if both are up it's probably not defined whether it goes over the WiFi
> or Ronja. Maybe shutting down WiFi power with a relay when RSSI is strong
> enough?
> 
> CL<
>> dekuju za radu...
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Jakub Sykora" <kubajz na kbx.cz>
>> To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja na lists.pointless.net>
>> Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 1:39 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Ronja] ronja as backbone
>>
>>
>> Has anyone tried using of the BONDing device in Linux? AFAIK it should
>> function a) as link aggregator b) high availability solution (if one of
>> the slave links is down, you can be still use the rest slaves...
>>
>> K
>>
>> Karel Kulhavy napsal(a):
>>> Yes you can aggregate the bandwidths together. But I think if it's not 
>>> possible
>>> that the network distributes the packets into the links. With OSPF or BGP
>>> this is surely not possible as they choose always only one way for the 
>>> data.
>>>
>>> You could maybe link aggregation over a virtual link created by tunnel
>>> Linux could support this. Otherwise there may be some advanced, new or
>>> experimental protocols I don't know about.
>>>
>>> If you have large or complicated enough network the traffic could balance
>>> itself stochastically even with OSPF and BGP - data want to go the 
>>> shortest way
>>> and what is the shortest for one destination is not shortest for another.
>>>
>>> CL<
>>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 10:34:43PM -0400, kqj rocks wrote:
>>>> I know the ronja can be used as an ethernet based internet backbone. If 
>>>> this is true will I be able to use them for an internet backhaul system 
>>>> to hop data from ronja to ronja and increase speed of internet data 
>>>> transfer to route internet data over a mesh network.  since the ronja can 
>>>> be used as an internet backbone can it be used to act as a 10mbps 
>>>> backbone for an ultra-high speed network where the internet speed of the 
>>>> wireless network is 10mbps x number of ronjas plus the speed of the mesh 
>>>> network's  internet  connection  11mbps???  what is the total internet 
>>>> speed a cilent recieves when connecting to this wi-fi mesh network???> 
>>>> From: ronja-request na lists.pointless.net> Subject: Ronja Digest, Vol 40, 
>>>> Issue 22> To: ronja na lists.pointless.net> Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 18:13:52 
>>>> +0100> > Send Ronja mailing list submissions to> 
>>>> ronja na lists.pointless.net> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World 
>>>> Wide Web, visit> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> or, via 
>>>> email, se
>> nd a message with subject or body 'help' to> 
>> ronja-request na lists.pointless.net> > You can reach the person managing the 
>> list at> ronja-owner na lists.pointless.net> > When replying, please edit your 
>> Subject line so it is more specific> than "Re: Contents of Ronja digest..."> 
>>  > > Today's Topics:> >    1. Re:  Dalsi linka (Jakub Sykora)>    2. Re: 
>> Dalsi linka (Karel Kulhavy)>    3. Re:  ronja (Karel Kulhavy)>    4. Re: 
>> [SPAM] Re: ronja (Karel Kulhavy)>    5. Re:  Dalsi linka (-=RYS=-)> > 
>>  > ----------------------------------------------------------------------> > 
>> Message: 1> Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 13:33:21 +0200> From: Jakub Sykora 
>> <kubajz na kbx.cz>> Subject: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> To: Twibright Ronja 
>> <ronja na lists.pointless.net>> Message-ID: <44F57781.1050800 na kbx.cz>> 
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2"> > Ne to nedelaji. Stejne tak 
>> jsem nevidel kabel odolny proti blbcum :)> > K> > Karel Kulhavy napsal(a):> 
>>  > On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 12:33:44AM +0200, Jakub Sykora wro
>> te:> >> Mno kabely se takovy urcite delaji - staci se podivat treba do 
>> katalogu > >> Beldenu na kbaely DataTuff, ktere jsou pro prumyslove uziti a 
>> jejich > >> vrchni slupka se dela v provedenich: odolne proti UV, proti 
>> Mazivum, > >> proti Chemikaliim atp...> > > > Delaj taky odolnou proti 
>> Chuckovi Norrisovi a Jacku Bauerovi?> > > > CL<> >> Ale nechci ani vedet 
>> kolik toho stoji metr...> >>> >> K> >>> >> Karel Kulhavy napsal(a):> >>> On 
>> Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 11:46:33PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote:> >>>> Ten venkovni UTP 
>> ma drat 0.62mm a dvojitou "buzirku" okolo "dratu". Taky> >>>> "buzirka" 
>> okolo dratu je silnejsi.> >>> A je na tom natisteno "outdoor" nebo to 
>> vyrobce v katalogu uvadi? Aby> >>> to nebyla nejaka ustni tradice - zatim se 
>> mi te legende o existenci> >>> venkovniho UTP/STP moc verit nechce.> >>>> 
>>  >>> CL<> >>>> Taky to ma dvojitej plast obal.> >>>> Vim, ze existuje i STP 
>> verze.> >>>> Ja to mam od znameho....kde to sehnal..nevim.> >>>> Ale mam 
>> dojem, ze jsem to videl v katalog
>> u Alfatroniku.> >>>> Martin> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> 
>> ______________________________________________________________> >>>>> Od: 
>> clock na twibright.com> >>>>> Komu: Twibright Ronja 
>> <ronja na lists.pointless.net>> >>>>> Datum: 28.08.2006 22:02> >>>>> P?edm?t: 
>> Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> >>>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 09:01:06PM 
>> +0200, -=RYS=- wrote:> >>>>>>> Vse je v provedeni venkovnim.> >>>>>> Ano, 
>> existuje i UTP pro venkovni provedeni.> >>>>> Can you get STP for outdoor? 
>> If yes, where? Or at least where you can get> >>>>> the outdoor UTP?> >>>>>> 
>>  >>>>> CL<> >>>>>> Filtr do 40MHz proti ruseni jsem samozrejme udelal.> 
>>  >>>>>> I kdyz si myslim, ze za 78S15 nic "neleze" (meril jsem to) .> >>>>>> 
>> Martin> >>>>>>> 
>> ______________________________________________________________> >>>>>>> Od: 
>> clock na twibright.com> >>>>>>> Komu: Twibright Ronja 
>> <ronja na lists.pointless.net>> >>>>>>> Datum: 28.08.2006 17:16> >>>>>>> 
>> P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 
>> 03:49:20PM +
>> 0200, Cipis wrote:> >>>>>>>> Mno, ten chlap by pot?eboval do dr?ky, to je 
>> fakt reprezentace jak > >>>>>>>> bl?zen.> >>>>>>>> S t?m datov?m kabelem to 
>> nen? a? tak hork? - na t? posledn? fotce > >>>>>>>> hromosvod > jen k????, 
>> ostatn? jsem moc ne?tudoval.> >>>>>>>> Sp?? to vypad? d?sn? hnusn?, na 
>> providera, kter? to d?l? > >>>>>>>> profesion?ln?. I j? > bych dal ten 
>> kousek do li?ty a od zdi k t?m > >>>>>>>> cajk?m bu? krk nebo takov? ten > 
>> omot?vac? nesmysl.> >>>>>>> For ordinary Ronja it would be just esthetical 
>> matter - if the coaxial > >>>>>>> cable is> >>>>>>> outdoor it doesn't 
>> matter if it's just thrown on the roof.  Even if > >>>>>>> it's not> >>>>>>> 
>> outdoor it affects just lifetime, not performance.  Anyway if you > >>>>>>> 
>> install a TV> >>>>>>> antenna you also throw the cable on a roof and don't 
>> use any plastic > >>>>>>> ducts.> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> RyS is using TP. TP can 
>> rot through on the weather and the signal > >>>>>>> inside UTP> >>>>>>> can 
>> be affected electromagn
>> etically by pooling water even without > >>>>>>> insulation> >>>>>>> breach. 
>> That's why I didn't put TP cable into the guide. In case of a > >>>>>>> TP 
>> cable> >>>>>>> plastic ducts can have a technical benefit.> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> 
>> When we installed Ronja we used outdoor coaxials and left them just > 
>>  >>>>>>> lying on> >>>>>>> the tin roof. Sometimes we used plastic ties to 
>> bundle cables together.> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> CL<> >>>>>> 
>> _______________________________________________> >>>>>> Ronja mailing list> 
>>  >>>>>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net> >>>>>> 
>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> >>>>> 
>> _______________________________________________> >>>>> Ronja mailing list> 
>>  >>>>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net> >>>>> 
>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> >>>>>> >>>> 
>> _______________________________________________> >>>> Ronja mailing list> 
>>  >>>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net> >>>> 
>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> >>>> >>> 
>> _______________________________________________> >>> Ronja
>>  mailing list> >>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net> >>> 
>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> >> -- > >> Jakub S?kora> >> 
>> email: kubajz na kbx.cz       <')> >> ICQ: 68976632               ( =-> >> 
>> mobil: +420 777 594 201      ''> > > >> begin:vcard> >> 
>> fn;quoted-printable:Jakub S=C3=BDkora> >> 
>> n;quoted-printable:S=C3=BDkora;Jakub> >> 
>> adr;quoted-printable:;;=C3=9Adoln=C3=AD 1273;Praha 4;;14200;Czech Republic> 
>>  >> email;internet:kubajz na kbx.cz> >> tel;cell:+420 777 594 201> >> 
>> url:http://kubajz.kbx.cz> >> version:2.1> >> end:vcard> >>> > > >> 
>> _______________________________________________> >> Ronja mailing list> >> 
>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net> >> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> > 
>>  > > > > _______________________________________________> > Ronja mailing 
>> list> > Ronja na lists.pointless.net> > 
>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> > -- > Jakub S?kora> email: 
>> kubajz na kbx.cz       <')> ICQ: 68976632               ( =-> mobil: +420 777 
>> 594 201      ''> -------------- next
>> part --------------> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...> Name: 
>> kubajz.vcf> Type: text/x-vcard> Size: 265 bytes> Desc: not available> Url : 
>> http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20060830/5847c7ac/attachment-0001.vcf > 
>>  > ------------------------------> > Message: 2> Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 
>> 14:29:53 +0200> From: Karel Kulhavy <clock na twibright.com>> Subject: Re: 
>> [Ronja] Dalsi linka> To: Twibright Ronja <ronja na lists.pointless.net>> 
>> Message-ID: <20060830122953.GA19221 na kestrel.twibright.com>> Content-Type: 
>> text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1> > On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 12:34:24PM 
>> +0200, -=RYS=- wrote:> > Je to podobne jako venkovnimu koaxu, 2x "buzirka" 
>> okolo.> > Ta dvojita buzirka je kolem kazdyho dratku a nebo kolem celyho 
>> toho kabelu?> > CL<> > Napsano tam neni nic, ale odhaduji, ze je to pro 
>> ven.> > Martin> > > > 
>> ______________________________________________________________> > > Od: 
>> clock na twibright.com> > > Komu: Twibright Ronja <ronja na lists.pointless.net>> 
>>  > > Datum: 30
>> .08.2006 00:16> > > P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> > >> > >On Mon, Aug 
>> 28, 2006 at 11:46:33PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote:> > >> Ten venkovni UTP ma drat 
>> 0.62mm a dvojitou "buzirku" okolo "dratu". Taky> > >> "buzirka" okolo dratu 
>> je silnejsi.> > >> > >A je na tom natisteno "outdoor" nebo to vyrobce v 
>> katalogu uvadi? Aby> > >to nebyla nejaka ustni tradice - zatim se mi te 
>> legende o existenci> > >venkovniho UTP/STP moc verit nechce.> > >> > >CL<> > 
>>  >> Taky to ma dvojitej plast obal.> > >> Vim, ze existuje i STP verze.> > >> 
>> Ja to mam od znameho....kde to sehnal..nevim.> > >> Ale mam dojem, ze jsem 
>> to videl v katalogu Alfatroniku.> > >> Martin> > >> > > 
>> ______________________________________________________________> > >> > Od: 
>> clock na twibright.com> > >> > Komu: Twibright Ronja 
>> <ronja na lists.pointless.net>> > >> > Datum: 28.08.2006 22:02> > >> > P?edm?t: 
>> Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> > >> >> > >> >On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 09:01:06PM 
>> +0200, -=RYS=- wrote:> > >> >> > Vse je v provedeni venkovn
>> im.> > >> >> Ano, existuje i UTP pro venkovni provedeni.> > >> >> > >> >Can 
>> you get STP for outdoor? If yes, where? Or at least where you can get> > >> 
>>  >the outdoor UTP?> > >> >> > >> >CL<> > >> >> Filtr do 40MHz proti ruseni 
>> jsem samozrejme udelal.> > >> >> I kdyz si myslim, ze za 78S15 nic "neleze" 
>> (meril jsem to) .> > >> >> Martin> > >> >> > 
>> ______________________________________________________________> > >> >> > 
>> Od: clock na twibright.com> > >> >> > Komu: Twibright Ronja 
>> <ronja na lists.pointless.net>> > >> >> > Datum: 28.08.2006 17:16> > >> >> > 
>> P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> > >> >> >> > >> >> >On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 
>> at 03:49:20PM +0200, Cipis wrote:> > >> >> >> Mno, ten chlap by pot?eboval 
>> do dr?ky, to je fakt reprezentace jak bl?zen.> > >> >> >> S t?m datov?m 
>> kabelem to nen? a? tak hork? - na t? posledn? fotce hromosvod > jen k????, 
>> ostatn? jsem moc ne?tudoval.> > >> >> >> Sp?? to vypad? d?sn? hnusn?, na 
>> providera, kter? to d?l? profesion?ln?. I j? > bych dal ten kousek d
>> o li?ty a od zdi k t?m cajk?m bu? krk nebo takov? ten > omot?vac? nesmysl.> 
>>  > >> >> >> > >> >> >For ordinary Ronja it would be just esthetical matter - 
>> if the coaxial cable is> > >> >> >outdoor it doesn't matter if it's just 
>> thrown on the roof. ?Even if it's not> > >> >> >outdoor it affects just 
>> lifetime, not performance. ?Anyway if you install a TV> > >> >> >antenna you 
>> also throw the cable on a roof and don't use any plastic ducts.> > >> >> >> 
>>  > >> >> >RyS is using TP. TP can rot through on the weather and the signal 
>> inside UTP> > >> >> >can be affected electromagnetically by pooling water 
>> even without insulation> > >> >> >breach. ?That's why I didn't put TP cable 
>> into the guide. In case of a TP cable> > >> >> >plastic ducts can have a 
>> technical benefit.> > >> >> >> > >> >> >When we installed Ronja we used 
>> outdoor coaxials and left them just lying on> > >> >> >the tin roof. 
>> Sometimes we used plastic ties to bundle cables together.> > >> >> >> > >> 
>>  >> >CL<> > >> >> > > > >>
>> _______________________________________________> > >> >> Ronja mailing list> 
>>  > >> >> Ronja na lists.pointless.net> > >> >> 
>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> > >> >> > >> >> > >> 
>>  >_______________________________________________> > >> >Ronja mailing list> 
>>  > >> >Ronja na lists.pointless.net> > >> 
>>  >http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> > >> > > > > > >> 
>> _______________________________________________> > >> Ronja mailing list> > 
>>  >> Ronja na lists.pointless.net> > >> 
>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> > >> > >> > 
>>  >_______________________________________________> > >Ronja mailing list> > 
>>  >Ronja na lists.pointless.net> > >http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> 
>>  > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________> > Ronja 
>> mailing list> > Ronja na lists.pointless.net> > 
>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> > > > 
>>  > ------------------------------> > Message: 3> Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 
>> 15:31:37 +0200> From: Karel Kulhavy <clock na twibright.com>> Subjec
>> t: Re: [Ronja] ronja> To: Mark Oldham <marko na idsystemsuk.co.uk>> Cc: 
>> Twibright Ronja <ronja na lists.pointless.net>> Message-ID: 
>> <20060830133137.GA20676 na kestrel.twibright.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; 
>> charset=us-ascii> > On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 12:27:28PM +0100, Mark Oldham 
>> wrote:> > hello karel> > > > i came accross this 
>> http://ronja.twibright.com/models.php> > > > im very interested in prices> > 
>> I am just developing and publishing, not manufacturing and selling. But 
>> someone> on mailing list said he wants to sell a used device.> > > > > if i 
>> understand correct you can transmit ethernet data transparently with> > this 
>> method> > yes.> > CL<> > > > best regards> > > > mark> > > 
>>  > ------------------------------> > Message: 4> Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 
>> 18:25:58 +0200> From: Karel Kulhavy <clock na twibright.com>> Subject: Re: 
>> [Ronja] [SPAM] Re: ronja> To: marko <marko na idsystemsuk.co.uk>> Cc: Twibright 
>> Ronja <ronja na lists.pointless.net>> Message-ID: 
>> <20060830162558.GB1857 na kestrel.twibrigh
>> t.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii> > On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 
>> at 03:55:46PM +0100, marko wrote:> > I am just developing and publishing, 
>> not manufacturing and selling. But > > someone> > >on mailing list said he 
>> wants to sell a used device.> > > > do you have this persons contact 
>> details> > I don't remember. But I sent the reply there so if he's 
>> interested I guess> he'll write you.  He's from Czech Republic. Maybe there 
>> were even two persons> like this, I am not sure.> > CL<> > > > thanks> > 
>> mark> > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Karel Kulhavy" 
>> <clock na twibright.com>> > To: "Mark Oldham" <marko na idsystemsuk.co.uk>> > Cc: 
>> "Twibright Ronja" <ronja na lists.pointless.net>> > Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 
>> 2006 2:31 PM> > Subject: [SPAM] Re: ronja> > > > > > >On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 
>> at 12:27:28PM +0100, Mark Oldham wrote:> > >>hello karel> > >>> > >>i came 
>> accross this http://ronja.twibright.com/models.php> > >>> > >>im very 
>> interested in prices> > >> > >I am just d
>> eveloping and publishing, not manufacturing and selling. But > > >someone> > 
>>  >on mailing list said he wants to sell a used device.> > >> > >>> > >>if i 
>> understand correct you can transmit ethernet data transparently with> > 
>>  >>this method> > >> > >yes.> > >> > >CL<> > >>> > >>best regards> > >>> > 
>>  >>mark > > > > ------------------------------> > Message: 5> Date: Wed, 30 
>> Aug 2006 19:13:14 +0200> From: "-=RYS=-" <cd930 na centrum.cz>> Subject: Re: 
>> [Ronja] Dalsi linka> To: <ronja na lists.pointless.net>> Message-ID: 
>> <200608301913.1144 na centrum.cz>> Content-Type: text/plain; 
>> charset="windows-1250"> > Kolem celeho kabelu.> > 
>> ______________________________________________________________> > Od: 
>> clock na twibright.com> > Komu: Twibright Ronja <ronja na lists.pointless.net>> > 
>> Datum: 30.08.2006 14:30> > P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> >> >On Wed, Aug 
>> 30, 2006 at 12:34:24PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote:> >> Je to podobne jako 
>> venkovnimu koaxu, 2x "buzirka" okolo.> >> >Ta dvojita buzirka je kolem 
>> kazdyho
>>  dratku a nebo kolem celyho toho kabelu?> >> >CL<> >> Napsano tam neni nic, 
>> ale odhaduji, ze je to pro ven.> >> Martin> >> > 
>> ______________________________________________________________> >> > Od: 
>> clock na twibright.com> >> > Komu: Twibright Ronja <ronja na lists.pointless.net>> 
>>  >> > Datum: 30.08.2006 00:16> >> > P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> >> >> 
>>  >> >On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 11:46:33PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote:> >> >> Ten 
>> venkovni UTP ma drat 0.62mm a dvojitou "buzirku" okolo "dratu". Taky> >> >> 
>> "buzirka" okolo dratu je silnejsi.> >> >> >> >A je na tom natisteno 
>> "outdoor" nebo to vyrobce v katalogu uvadi? Aby> >> >to nebyla nejaka ustni 
>> tradice - zatim se mi te legende o existenci> >> >venkovniho UTP/STP moc 
>> verit nechce.> >> >> >> >CL<> >> >> Taky to ma dvojitej plast obal.> >> >> 
>> Vim, ze existuje i STP verze.> >> >> Ja to mam od znameho....kde to 
>> sehnal..nevim.> >> >> Ale mam dojem, ze jsem to videl v katalogu 
>> Alfatroniku.> >> >> Martin> >> >> > > _____________________________
>> _________________________________> >> >> > Od: clock na twibright.com> >> >> > 
>> Komu: Twibright Ronja <ronja na lists.pointless.net>> >> >> > Datum: 28.08.2006 
>> 22:02> >> >> > P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> >> >> >> >> >> >On Mon, Aug 
>> 28, 2006 at 09:01:06PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote:> >> >> >> > Vse je v provedeni 
>> venkovnim.> >> >> >> Ano, existuje i UTP pro venkovni provedeni.> >> >> >> 
>>  >> >> >Can you get STP for outdoor? If yes, where? Or at least where you can 
>> get> >> >> >the outdoor UTP?> >> >> >> >> >> >CL<> >> >> >> Filtr do 40MHz 
>> proti ruseni jsem samozrejme udelal.> >> >> >> I kdyz si myslim, ze za 78S15 
>> nic "neleze" (meril jsem to) .> >> >> >> Martin> >> >> >> > 
>> ______________________________________________________________> >> >> >> > 
>> Od: clock na twibright.com> >> >> >> > Komu: Twibright Ronja 
>> <ronja na lists.pointless.net>> >> >> >> > Datum: 28.08.2006 17:16> >> >> >> > 
>> P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 
>> at 03:49:20PM +0200, Cipis wrote:>
>>  >> >> >> >> Mno, ten chlap by pot?eboval do dr?ky, to je fakt reprezentace 
>> jak bl?zen.> >> >> >> >> S t?m datov?m kabelem to nen? a? tak hork? - na t? 
>> posledn? fotce hromosvod > jen k????, ostatn? jsem moc ne?tudoval.> >> >> >> 
>>  >> Sp?? to vypad? d?sn? hnusn?, na providera, kter? to d?l? profesion?ln?. I 
>> j? > bych dal ten kousek do li?ty a od zdi k t?m cajk?m bu? krk nebo takov? 
>> ten > omot?vac? nesmysl.> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >For ordinary Ronja it would 
>> be just esthetical matter - if the coaxial cable is> >> >> >> >outdoor it 
>> doesn't matter if it's just thrown on the roof. ?Even if it's not> >> >> >> 
>>  >outdoor it affects just lifetime, not performance. ?Anyway if you install a 
>> TV> >> >> >> >antenna you also throw the cable on a roof and don't use any 
>> plastic ducts.> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >RyS is using TP. TP can rot through on 
>> the weather and the signal inside UTP> >> >> >> >can be affected 
>> electromagnetically by pooling water even without insulation> >> >> >> 
>>  >breach. ?That's
>> why I didn't put TP cable into the guide. In case of a TP cable> >> >> >> 
>>  >plastic ducts can have a technical benefit.> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >When we 
>> installed Ronja we used outdoor coaxials and left them just lying on> >> >> 
>>  >> >the tin roof. Sometimes we used plastic ties to bundle cables together.> 
>>  >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >CL<> >> >> >> > > > >> 
>> _______________________________________________> >> >> >> Ronja mailing 
>> list> >> >> >> Ronja na lists.pointless.net> >> >> >> 
>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> 
>>  >_______________________________________________> >> >> >Ronja mailing list> 
>>  >> >> >Ronja na lists.pointless.net> >> >> 
>>  >http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> >> >> > > > > >> 
>> _______________________________________________> >> >> Ronja mailing list> 
>>  >> >> Ronja na lists.pointless.net> >> >> 
>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> >> >> >> >> >> 
>>  >_______________________________________________> >> >Ronja mailing list> >> 
>>  >Ronja na lists.pointl
>> ess.net> >> >http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> >> > > > > >> 
>> _______________________________________________> >> Ronja mailing list> >> 
>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net> >> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> 
>>  >> >> >_______________________________________________> >Ronja mailing list> 
>>  >Ronja na lists.pointless.net> >http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> > 
>>  > > -------------- next part --------------> An HTML attachment was 
>> scrubbed...> URL: 
>> http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20060830/14e45f9f/attachment.html > 
>>  > ------------------------------> > 
>> _______________________________________________> Ronja mailing list> 
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>> End of Ronja Digest, Vol 40, Issue 22> *************************************
>>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>>> Express yourself with gadgets on Windows Live Spaces
>>>> http://discoverspaces.live.com?source=hmtag1&loc=us
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Ronja mailing list
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>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Ronja mailing list
>>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
>>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>> -- 
>> Jakub S?kora
>> email: kubajz na kbx.cz       <')
>> ICQ: 68976632               ( =-
>> mobil: +420 777 594 201      ''
>>
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
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>>>
>>
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> 
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-- 
Jakub S?kora
email: kubajz na kbx.cz       <')
ICQ: 68976632               ( =-
mobil: +420 777 594 201      ''


From kubajz at kbx.cz  Fri Sep  1 08:40:55 2006
From: kubajz at kbx.cz (Jakub Sykora)
Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 09:40:55 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] ronja as backbone
In-Reply-To: <44F7E2FE.3050805@kbx.cz>
References: <44F6CA73.7070107@kbx.cz>	<001201c6ccf4$392d6280$f2464d3e@homec911b8ae22>	<20060901063218.GA25949@kestrel.twibright.com>
	<44F7E2FE.3050805@kbx.cz>
Message-ID: <44F7E407.1010206@kbx.cz>

Correction. In fact there is no need of Hamiltonian cycle :] Any cycle 
is enough :] ...

K

Jakub Sykora wrote:
> No, spanning tree protocol is not supported by every switch. Only more 
> advanced switches are equipped with this. Then you can set cost for each 
> port, that allows you to say which path to use and which path to use if 
> Ronja is not transmitting data. It is similar to routing at L3, but it 
> is done at L2.
> 
> The proof, that cheap switches do not support STP is fact, when you 
> connect a patch cable as a loopback from one port to another, the switch 
> will probably stop working or in better case malfunction. I saw it once 
> when we were redesigning our LAN, we incidentally connected our lan so 
> it formed a cycle (cycle meant as a Hamiltonian cycle from graph 
> theory). The whole LAN began to malfunction. STP solves this problem by 
> cutting the last segment of the cycle.
> 
> K
> 
> Karel Kulhavy wrote:
>> On Thu, Aug 31, 2006 at 01:54:32PM +0200, Pavel Srnka wrote:
>>> Nevite prosim nekdo jak zalohovat ronji spoje wifinou bez pouziti linux 
>>> routru ? tzn necim na urovni switchu ?
>>> Stacila by treba podpora spaning tree protokolu ?
>> Spanning tree is supported by every switch AFAIK.
>>
>> However if both are up it's probably not defined whether it goes over the WiFi
>> or Ronja. Maybe shutting down WiFi power with a relay when RSSI is strong
>> enough?
>>
>> CL<
>>> dekuju za radu...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Jakub Sykora" <kubajz na kbx.cz>
>>> To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja na lists.pointless.net>
>>> Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 1:39 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Ronja] ronja as backbone
>>>
>>>
>>> Has anyone tried using of the BONDing device in Linux? AFAIK it should
>>> function a) as link aggregator b) high availability solution (if one of
>>> the slave links is down, you can be still use the rest slaves...
>>>
>>> K
>>>
>>> Karel Kulhavy napsal(a):
>>>> Yes you can aggregate the bandwidths together. But I think if it's not 
>>>> possible
>>>> that the network distributes the packets into the links. With OSPF or BGP
>>>> this is surely not possible as they choose always only one way for the 
>>>> data.
>>>>
>>>> You could maybe link aggregation over a virtual link created by tunnel
>>>> Linux could support this. Otherwise there may be some advanced, new or
>>>> experimental protocols I don't know about.
>>>>
>>>> If you have large or complicated enough network the traffic could balance
>>>> itself stochastically even with OSPF and BGP - data want to go the 
>>>> shortest way
>>>> and what is the shortest for one destination is not shortest for another.
>>>>
>>>> CL<
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 10:34:43PM -0400, kqj rocks wrote:
>>>>> I know the ronja can be used as an ethernet based internet backbone. If 
>>>>> this is true will I be able to use them for an internet backhaul system 
>>>>> to hop data from ronja to ronja and increase speed of internet data 
>>>>> transfer to route internet data over a mesh network.  since the ronja can 
>>>>> be used as an internet backbone can it be used to act as a 10mbps 
>>>>> backbone for an ultra-high speed network where the internet speed of the 
>>>>> wireless network is 10mbps x number of ronjas plus the speed of the mesh 
>>>>> network's  internet  connection  11mbps???  what is the total internet 
>>>>> speed a cilent recieves when connecting to this wi-fi mesh network???> 
>>>>> From: ronja-request na lists.pointless.net> Subject: Ronja Digest, Vol 40, 
>>>>> Issue 22> To: ronja na lists.pointless.net> Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 18:13:52 
>>>>> +0100> > Send Ronja mailing list submissions to> 
>>>>> ronja na lists.pointless.net> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World 
>>>>> Wide Web, visit> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> or, via 
>>>>> email, se
>>> nd a message with subject or body 'help' to> 
>>> ronja-request na lists.pointless.net> > You can reach the person managing the 
>>> list at> ronja-owner na lists.pointless.net> > When replying, please edit your 
>>> Subject line so it is more specific> than "Re: Contents of Ronja digest..."> 
>>>  > > Today's Topics:> >    1. Re:  Dalsi linka (Jakub Sykora)>    2. Re: 
>>> Dalsi linka (Karel Kulhavy)>    3. Re:  ronja (Karel Kulhavy)>    4. Re: 
>>> [SPAM] Re: ronja (Karel Kulhavy)>    5. Re:  Dalsi linka (-=RYS=-)> > 
>>>  > ----------------------------------------------------------------------> > 
>>> Message: 1> Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 13:33:21 +0200> From: Jakub Sykora 
>>> <kubajz na kbx.cz>> Subject: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> To: Twibright Ronja 
>>> <ronja na lists.pointless.net>> Message-ID: <44F57781.1050800 na kbx.cz>> 
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2"> > Ne to nedelaji. Stejne tak 
>>> jsem nevidel kabel odolny proti blbcum :)> > K> > Karel Kulhavy napsal(a):> 
>>>  > On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 12:33:44AM +0200, Jakub Sykora wro
>>> te:> >> Mno kabely se takovy urcite delaji - staci se podivat treba do 
>>> katalogu > >> Beldenu na kbaely DataTuff, ktere jsou pro prumyslove uziti a 
>>> jejich > >> vrchni slupka se dela v provedenich: odolne proti UV, proti 
>>> Mazivum, > >> proti Chemikaliim atp...> > > > Delaj taky odolnou proti 
>>> Chuckovi Norrisovi a Jacku Bauerovi?> > > > CL<> >> Ale nechci ani vedet 
>>> kolik toho stoji metr...> >>> >> K> >>> >> Karel Kulhavy napsal(a):> >>> On 
>>> Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 11:46:33PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote:> >>>> Ten venkovni UTP 
>>> ma drat 0.62mm a dvojitou "buzirku" okolo "dratu". Taky> >>>> "buzirka" 
>>> okolo dratu je silnejsi.> >>> A je na tom natisteno "outdoor" nebo to 
>>> vyrobce v katalogu uvadi? Aby> >>> to nebyla nejaka ustni tradice - zatim se 
>>> mi te legende o existenci> >>> venkovniho UTP/STP moc verit nechce.> >>>> 
>>>  >>> CL<> >>>> Taky to ma dvojitej plast obal.> >>>> Vim, ze existuje i STP 
>>> verze.> >>>> Ja to mam od znameho....kde to sehnal..nevim.> >>>> Ale mam 
>>> dojem, ze jsem to videl v katalog
>>> u Alfatroniku.> >>>> Martin> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> 
>>> ______________________________________________________________> >>>>> Od: 
>>> clock na twibright.com> >>>>> Komu: Twibright Ronja 
>>> <ronja na lists.pointless.net>> >>>>> Datum: 28.08.2006 22:02> >>>>> P?edm?t: 
>>> Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> >>>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 09:01:06PM 
>>> +0200, -=RYS=- wrote:> >>>>>>> Vse je v provedeni venkovnim.> >>>>>> Ano, 
>>> existuje i UTP pro venkovni provedeni.> >>>>> Can you get STP for outdoor? 
>>> If yes, where? Or at least where you can get> >>>>> the outdoor UTP?> >>>>>> 
>>>  >>>>> CL<> >>>>>> Filtr do 40MHz proti ruseni jsem samozrejme udelal.> 
>>>  >>>>>> I kdyz si myslim, ze za 78S15 nic "neleze" (meril jsem to) .> >>>>>> 
>>> Martin> >>>>>>> 
>>> ______________________________________________________________> >>>>>>> Od: 
>>> clock na twibright.com> >>>>>>> Komu: Twibright Ronja 
>>> <ronja na lists.pointless.net>> >>>>>>> Datum: 28.08.2006 17:16> >>>>>>> 
>>> P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 
>>> 03:49:20PM +
>>> 0200, Cipis wrote:> >>>>>>>> Mno, ten chlap by pot?eboval do dr?ky, to je 
>>> fakt reprezentace jak > >>>>>>>> bl?zen.> >>>>>>>> S t?m datov?m kabelem to 
>>> nen? a? tak hork? - na t? posledn? fotce > >>>>>>>> hromosvod > jen k????, 
>>> ostatn? jsem moc ne?tudoval.> >>>>>>>> Sp?? to vypad? d?sn? hnusn?, na 
>>> providera, kter? to d?l? > >>>>>>>> profesion?ln?. I j? > bych dal ten 
>>> kousek do li?ty a od zdi k t?m > >>>>>>>> cajk?m bu? krk nebo takov? ten > 
>>> omot?vac? nesmysl.> >>>>>>> For ordinary Ronja it would be just esthetical 
>>> matter - if the coaxial > >>>>>>> cable is> >>>>>>> outdoor it doesn't 
>>> matter if it's just thrown on the roof.  Even if > >>>>>>> it's not> >>>>>>> 
>>> outdoor it affects just lifetime, not performance.  Anyway if you > >>>>>>> 
>>> install a TV> >>>>>>> antenna you also throw the cable on a roof and don't 
>>> use any plastic > >>>>>>> ducts.> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> RyS is using TP. TP can 
>>> rot through on the weather and the signal > >>>>>>> inside UTP> >>>>>>> can 
>>> be affected electromagn
>>> etically by pooling water even without > >>>>>>> insulation> >>>>>>> breach. 
>>> That's why I didn't put TP cable into the guide. In case of a > >>>>>>> TP 
>>> cable> >>>>>>> plastic ducts can have a technical benefit.> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> 
>>> When we installed Ronja we used outdoor coaxials and left them just > 
>>>  >>>>>>> lying on> >>>>>>> the tin roof. Sometimes we used plastic ties to 
>>> bundle cables together.> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> CL<> >>>>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________> >>>>>> Ronja mailing list> 
>>>  >>>>>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net> >>>>>> 
>>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> >>>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________> >>>>> Ronja mailing list> 
>>>  >>>>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net> >>>>> 
>>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> >>>>>> >>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________> >>>> Ronja mailing list> 
>>>  >>>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net> >>>> 
>>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> >>>> >>> 
>>> _______________________________________________> >>> Ronja
>>>  mailing list> >>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net> >>> 
>>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> >> -- > >> Jakub S?kora> >> 
>>> email: kubajz na kbx.cz       <')> >> ICQ: 68976632               ( =-> >> 
>>> mobil: +420 777 594 201      ''> > > >> begin:vcard> >> 
>>> fn;quoted-printable:Jakub S=C3=BDkora> >> 
>>> n;quoted-printable:S=C3=BDkora;Jakub> >> 
>>> adr;quoted-printable:;;=C3=9Adoln=C3=AD 1273;Praha 4;;14200;Czech Republic> 
>>>  >> email;internet:kubajz na kbx.cz> >> tel;cell:+420 777 594 201> >> 
>>> url:http://kubajz.kbx.cz> >> version:2.1> >> end:vcard> >>> > > >> 
>>> _______________________________________________> >> Ronja mailing list> >> 
>>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net> >> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> > 
>>>  > > > > _______________________________________________> > Ronja mailing 
>>> list> > Ronja na lists.pointless.net> > 
>>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> > -- > Jakub S?kora> email: 
>>> kubajz na kbx.cz       <')> ICQ: 68976632               ( =-> mobil: +420 777 
>>> 594 201      ''> -------------- next
>>> part --------------> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...> Name: 
>>> kubajz.vcf> Type: text/x-vcard> Size: 265 bytes> Desc: not available> Url : 
>>> http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20060830/5847c7ac/attachment-0001.vcf > 
>>>  > ------------------------------> > Message: 2> Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 
>>> 14:29:53 +0200> From: Karel Kulhavy <clock na twibright.com>> Subject: Re: 
>>> [Ronja] Dalsi linka> To: Twibright Ronja <ronja na lists.pointless.net>> 
>>> Message-ID: <20060830122953.GA19221 na kestrel.twibright.com>> Content-Type: 
>>> text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1> > On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 12:34:24PM 
>>> +0200, -=RYS=- wrote:> > Je to podobne jako venkovnimu koaxu, 2x "buzirka" 
>>> okolo.> > Ta dvojita buzirka je kolem kazdyho dratku a nebo kolem celyho 
>>> toho kabelu?> > CL<> > Napsano tam neni nic, ale odhaduji, ze je to pro 
>>> ven.> > Martin> > > > 
>>> ______________________________________________________________> > > Od: 
>>> clock na twibright.com> > > Komu: Twibright Ronja <ronja na lists.pointless.net>> 
>>>  > > Datum: 30
>>> .08.2006 00:16> > > P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> > >> > >On Mon, Aug 
>>> 28, 2006 at 11:46:33PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote:> > >> Ten venkovni UTP ma drat 
>>> 0.62mm a dvojitou "buzirku" okolo "dratu". Taky> > >> "buzirka" okolo dratu 
>>> je silnejsi.> > >> > >A je na tom natisteno "outdoor" nebo to vyrobce v 
>>> katalogu uvadi? Aby> > >to nebyla nejaka ustni tradice - zatim se mi te 
>>> legende o existenci> > >venkovniho UTP/STP moc verit nechce.> > >> > >CL<> > 
>>>  >> Taky to ma dvojitej plast obal.> > >> Vim, ze existuje i STP verze.> > >> 
>>> Ja to mam od znameho....kde to sehnal..nevim.> > >> Ale mam dojem, ze jsem 
>>> to videl v katalogu Alfatroniku.> > >> Martin> > >> > > 
>>> ______________________________________________________________> > >> > Od: 
>>> clock na twibright.com> > >> > Komu: Twibright Ronja 
>>> <ronja na lists.pointless.net>> > >> > Datum: 28.08.2006 22:02> > >> > P?edm?t: 
>>> Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> > >> >> > >> >On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 09:01:06PM 
>>> +0200, -=RYS=- wrote:> > >> >> > Vse je v provedeni venkovn
>>> im.> > >> >> Ano, existuje i UTP pro venkovni provedeni.> > >> >> > >> >Can 
>>> you get STP for outdoor? If yes, where? Or at least where you can get> > >> 
>>>  >the outdoor UTP?> > >> >> > >> >CL<> > >> >> Filtr do 40MHz proti ruseni 
>>> jsem samozrejme udelal.> > >> >> I kdyz si myslim, ze za 78S15 nic "neleze" 
>>> (meril jsem to) .> > >> >> Martin> > >> >> > 
>>> ______________________________________________________________> > >> >> > 
>>> Od: clock na twibright.com> > >> >> > Komu: Twibright Ronja 
>>> <ronja na lists.pointless.net>> > >> >> > Datum: 28.08.2006 17:16> > >> >> > 
>>> P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> > >> >> >> > >> >> >On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 
>>> at 03:49:20PM +0200, Cipis wrote:> > >> >> >> Mno, ten chlap by pot?eboval 
>>> do dr?ky, to je fakt reprezentace jak bl?zen.> > >> >> >> S t?m datov?m 
>>> kabelem to nen? a? tak hork? - na t? posledn? fotce hromosvod > jen k????, 
>>> ostatn? jsem moc ne?tudoval.> > >> >> >> Sp?? to vypad? d?sn? hnusn?, na 
>>> providera, kter? to d?l? profesion?ln?. I j? > bych dal ten kousek d
>>> o li?ty a od zdi k t?m cajk?m bu? krk nebo takov? ten > omot?vac? nesmysl.> 
>>>  > >> >> >> > >> >> >For ordinary Ronja it would be just esthetical matter - 
>>> if the coaxial cable is> > >> >> >outdoor it doesn't matter if it's just 
>>> thrown on the roof. ?Even if it's not> > >> >> >outdoor it affects just 
>>> lifetime, not performance. ?Anyway if you install a TV> > >> >> >antenna you 
>>> also throw the cable on a roof and don't use any plastic ducts.> > >> >> >> 
>>>  > >> >> >RyS is using TP. TP can rot through on the weather and the signal 
>>> inside UTP> > >> >> >can be affected electromagnetically by pooling water 
>>> even without insulation> > >> >> >breach. ?That's why I didn't put TP cable 
>>> into the guide. In case of a TP cable> > >> >> >plastic ducts can have a 
>>> technical benefit.> > >> >> >> > >> >> >When we installed Ronja we used 
>>> outdoor coaxials and left them just lying on> > >> >> >the tin roof. 
>>> Sometimes we used plastic ties to bundle cables together.> > >> >> >> > >> 
>>>  >> >CL<> > >> >> > > > >>
>>> _______________________________________________> > >> >> Ronja mailing list> 
>>>  > >> >> Ronja na lists.pointless.net> > >> >> 
>>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> > >> >> > >> >> > >> 
>>>  >_______________________________________________> > >> >Ronja mailing list> 
>>>  > >> >Ronja na lists.pointless.net> > >> 
>>>  >http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> > >> > > > > > >> 
>>> _______________________________________________> > >> Ronja mailing list> > 
>>>  >> Ronja na lists.pointless.net> > >> 
>>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> > >> > >> > 
>>>  >_______________________________________________> > >Ronja mailing list> > 
>>>  >Ronja na lists.pointless.net> > >http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> 
>>>  > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________> > Ronja 
>>> mailing list> > Ronja na lists.pointless.net> > 
>>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> > > > 
>>>  > ------------------------------> > Message: 3> Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 
>>> 15:31:37 +0200> From: Karel Kulhavy <clock na twibright.com>> Subjec
>>> t: Re: [Ronja] ronja> To: Mark Oldham <marko na idsystemsuk.co.uk>> Cc: 
>>> Twibright Ronja <ronja na lists.pointless.net>> Message-ID: 
>>> <20060830133137.GA20676 na kestrel.twibright.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; 
>>> charset=us-ascii> > On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 12:27:28PM +0100, Mark Oldham 
>>> wrote:> > hello karel> > > > i came accross this 
>>> http://ronja.twibright.com/models.php> > > > im very interested in prices> > 
>>> I am just developing and publishing, not manufacturing and selling. But 
>>> someone> on mailing list said he wants to sell a used device.> > > > > if i 
>>> understand correct you can transmit ethernet data transparently with> > this 
>>> method> > yes.> > CL<> > > > best regards> > > > mark> > > 
>>>  > ------------------------------> > Message: 4> Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 
>>> 18:25:58 +0200> From: Karel Kulhavy <clock na twibright.com>> Subject: Re: 
>>> [Ronja] [SPAM] Re: ronja> To: marko <marko na idsystemsuk.co.uk>> Cc: Twibright 
>>> Ronja <ronja na lists.pointless.net>> Message-ID: 
>>> <20060830162558.GB1857 na kestrel.twibrigh
>>> t.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii> > On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 
>>> at 03:55:46PM +0100, marko wrote:> > I am just developing and publishing, 
>>> not manufacturing and selling. But > > someone> > >on mailing list said he 
>>> wants to sell a used device.> > > > do you have this persons contact 
>>> details> > I don't remember. But I sent the reply there so if he's 
>>> interested I guess> he'll write you.  He's from Czech Republic. Maybe there 
>>> were even two persons> like this, I am not sure.> > CL<> > > > thanks> > 
>>> mark> > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Karel Kulhavy" 
>>> <clock na twibright.com>> > To: "Mark Oldham" <marko na idsystemsuk.co.uk>> > Cc: 
>>> "Twibright Ronja" <ronja na lists.pointless.net>> > Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 
>>> 2006 2:31 PM> > Subject: [SPAM] Re: ronja> > > > > > >On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 
>>> at 12:27:28PM +0100, Mark Oldham wrote:> > >>hello karel> > >>> > >>i came 
>>> accross this http://ronja.twibright.com/models.php> > >>> > >>im very 
>>> interested in prices> > >> > >I am just d
>>> eveloping and publishing, not manufacturing and selling. But > > >someone> > 
>>>  >on mailing list said he wants to sell a used device.> > >> > >>> > >>if i 
>>> understand correct you can transmit ethernet data transparently with> > 
>>>  >>this method> > >> > >yes.> > >> > >CL<> > >>> > >>best regards> > >>> > 
>>>  >>mark > > > > ------------------------------> > Message: 5> Date: Wed, 30 
>>> Aug 2006 19:13:14 +0200> From: "-=RYS=-" <cd930 na centrum.cz>> Subject: Re: 
>>> [Ronja] Dalsi linka> To: <ronja na lists.pointless.net>> Message-ID: 
>>> <200608301913.1144 na centrum.cz>> Content-Type: text/plain; 
>>> charset="windows-1250"> > Kolem celeho kabelu.> > 
>>> ______________________________________________________________> > Od: 
>>> clock na twibright.com> > Komu: Twibright Ronja <ronja na lists.pointless.net>> > 
>>> Datum: 30.08.2006 14:30> > P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> >> >On Wed, Aug 
>>> 30, 2006 at 12:34:24PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote:> >> Je to podobne jako 
>>> venkovnimu koaxu, 2x "buzirka" okolo.> >> >Ta dvojita buzirka je kolem 
>>> kazdyho
>>>  dratku a nebo kolem celyho toho kabelu?> >> >CL<> >> Napsano tam neni nic, 
>>> ale odhaduji, ze je to pro ven.> >> Martin> >> > 
>>> ______________________________________________________________> >> > Od: 
>>> clock na twibright.com> >> > Komu: Twibright Ronja <ronja na lists.pointless.net>> 
>>>  >> > Datum: 30.08.2006 00:16> >> > P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> >> >> 
>>>  >> >On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 11:46:33PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote:> >> >> Ten 
>>> venkovni UTP ma drat 0.62mm a dvojitou "buzirku" okolo "dratu". Taky> >> >> 
>>> "buzirka" okolo dratu je silnejsi.> >> >> >> >A je na tom natisteno 
>>> "outdoor" nebo to vyrobce v katalogu uvadi? Aby> >> >to nebyla nejaka ustni 
>>> tradice - zatim se mi te legende o existenci> >> >venkovniho UTP/STP moc 
>>> verit nechce.> >> >> >> >CL<> >> >> Taky to ma dvojitej plast obal.> >> >> 
>>> Vim, ze existuje i STP verze.> >> >> Ja to mam od znameho....kde to 
>>> sehnal..nevim.> >> >> Ale mam dojem, ze jsem to videl v katalogu 
>>> Alfatroniku.> >> >> Martin> >> >> > > _____________________________
>>> _________________________________> >> >> > Od: clock na twibright.com> >> >> > 
>>> Komu: Twibright Ronja <ronja na lists.pointless.net>> >> >> > Datum: 28.08.2006 
>>> 22:02> >> >> > P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> >> >> >> >> >> >On Mon, Aug 
>>> 28, 2006 at 09:01:06PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote:> >> >> >> > Vse je v provedeni 
>>> venkovnim.> >> >> >> Ano, existuje i UTP pro venkovni provedeni.> >> >> >> 
>>>  >> >> >Can you get STP for outdoor? If yes, where? Or at least where you can 
>>> get> >> >> >the outdoor UTP?> >> >> >> >> >> >CL<> >> >> >> Filtr do 40MHz 
>>> proti ruseni jsem samozrejme udelal.> >> >> >> I kdyz si myslim, ze za 78S15 
>>> nic "neleze" (meril jsem to) .> >> >> >> Martin> >> >> >> > 
>>> ______________________________________________________________> >> >> >> > 
>>> Od: clock na twibright.com> >> >> >> > Komu: Twibright Ronja 
>>> <ronja na lists.pointless.net>> >> >> >> > Datum: 28.08.2006 17:16> >> >> >> > 
>>> P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 
>>> at 03:49:20PM +0200, Cipis wrote:>
>>>  >> >> >> >> Mno, ten chlap by pot?eboval do dr?ky, to je fakt reprezentace 
>>> jak bl?zen.> >> >> >> >> S t?m datov?m kabelem to nen? a? tak hork? - na t? 
>>> posledn? fotce hromosvod > jen k????, ostatn? jsem moc ne?tudoval.> >> >> >> 
>>>  >> Sp?? to vypad? d?sn? hnusn?, na providera, kter? to d?l? profesion?ln?. I 
>>> j? > bych dal ten kousek do li?ty a od zdi k t?m cajk?m bu? krk nebo takov? 
>>> ten > omot?vac? nesmysl.> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >For ordinary Ronja it would 
>>> be just esthetical matter - if the coaxial cable is> >> >> >> >outdoor it 
>>> doesn't matter if it's just thrown on the roof. ?Even if it's not> >> >> >> 
>>>  >outdoor it affects just lifetime, not performance. ?Anyway if you install a 
>>> TV> >> >> >> >antenna you also throw the cable on a roof and don't use any 
>>> plastic ducts.> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >RyS is using TP. TP can rot through on 
>>> the weather and the signal inside UTP> >> >> >> >can be affected 
>>> electromagnetically by pooling water even without insulation> >> >> >> 
>>>  >breach. ?That's
>>> why I didn't put TP cable into the guide. In case of a TP cable> >> >> >> 
>>>  >plastic ducts can have a technical benefit.> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >When we 
>>> installed Ronja we used outdoor coaxials and left them just lying on> >> >> 
>>>  >> >the tin roof. Sometimes we used plastic ties to bundle cables together.> 
>>>  >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >CL<> >> >> >> > > > >> 
>>> _______________________________________________> >> >> >> Ronja mailing 
>>> list> >> >> >> Ronja na lists.pointless.net> >> >> >> 
>>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> 
>>>  >_______________________________________________> >> >> >Ronja mailing list> 
>>>  >> >> >Ronja na lists.pointless.net> >> >> 
>>>  >http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> >> >> > > > > >> 
>>> _______________________________________________> >> >> Ronja mailing list> 
>>>  >> >> Ronja na lists.pointless.net> >> >> 
>>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> >> >> >> >> >> 
>>>  >_______________________________________________> >> >Ronja mailing list> >> 
>>>  >Ronja na lists.pointl
>>> ess.net> >> >http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> >> > > > > >> 
>>> _______________________________________________> >> Ronja mailing list> >> 
>>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net> >> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> 
>>>  >> >> >_______________________________________________> >Ronja mailing list> 
>>>  >Ronja na lists.pointless.net> >http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> > 
>>>  > > -------------- next part --------------> An HTML attachment was 
>>> scrubbed...> URL: 
>>> http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20060830/14e45f9f/attachment.html > 
>>>  > ------------------------------> > 
>>> _______________________________________________> Ronja mailing list> 
>>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> > > 
>>> End of Ronja Digest, Vol 40, Issue 22> *************************************
>>>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>>>> Express yourself with gadgets on Windows Live Spaces
>>>>> http://discoverspaces.live.com?source=hmtag1&loc=us
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Ronja mailing list
>>>>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
>>>>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Ronja mailing list
>>>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
>>>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>>> -- 
>>> Jakub S?kora
>>> email: kubajz na kbx.cz       <')
>>> ICQ: 68976632               ( =-
>>> mobil: +420 777 594 201      ''
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Ronja mailing list
>>>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
>>>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Ronja mailing list
>>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
>>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ronja mailing list
>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 

-- 
Jakub S?kora
email: kubajz na kbx.cz       <')
ICQ: 68976632               ( =-
mobil: +420 777 594 201      ''


From srnkap at extranetplus.cz  Fri Sep  1 08:50:55 2006
From: srnkap at extranetplus.cz (Pavel Srnka)
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 09:50:55 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] ronja as backbone
References: <44F6CA73.7070107@kbx.cz>	<001201c6ccf4$392d6280$f2464d3e@homec911b8ae22><20060901063218.GA25949@kestrel.twibright.com>
	<44F7E2FE.3050805@kbx.cz>
Message-ID: <001101c6cd9b$5aed8ba0$f2464d3e@homec911b8ae22>

No to je prave ono , ze kdyz se to propoji naprimo jeste jednou linkou tak 
to prestane fungovat uplne :(
Zalohu potrebuju nutne, jeste me napadlo poslat dve linky a spojit je jako 
port trunk aspon na jedny strane ?


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jakub Sykora" <kubajz na kbx.cz>
To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja na lists.pointless.net>
Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 9:36 AM
Subject: Re: [Ronja] ronja as backbone


No, spanning tree protocol is not supported by every switch. Only more
advanced switches are equipped with this. Then you can set cost for each
port, that allows you to say which path to use and which path to use if
Ronja is not transmitting data. It is similar to routing at L3, but it
is done at L2.

The proof, that cheap switches do not support STP is fact, when you
connect a patch cable as a loopback from one port to another, the switch
will probably stop working or in better case malfunction. I saw it once
when we were redesigning our LAN, we incidentally connected our lan so
it formed a cycle (cycle meant as a Hamiltonian cycle from graph
theory). The whole LAN began to malfunction. STP solves this problem by
cutting the last segment of the cycle.

K

Karel Kulhavy wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 31, 2006 at 01:54:32PM +0200, Pavel Srnka wrote:
>> Nevite prosim nekdo jak zalohovat ronji spoje wifinou bez pouziti linux
>> routru ? tzn necim na urovni switchu ?
>> Stacila by treba podpora spaning tree protokolu ?
>
> Spanning tree is supported by every switch AFAIK.
>
> However if both are up it's probably not defined whether it goes over the 
> WiFi
> or Ronja. Maybe shutting down WiFi power with a relay when RSSI is strong
> enough?
>
> CL<
>> dekuju za radu...
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Jakub Sykora" <kubajz na kbx.cz>
>> To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja na lists.pointless.net>
>> Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 1:39 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Ronja] ronja as backbone
>>
>>
>> Has anyone tried using of the BONDing device in Linux? AFAIK it should
>> function a) as link aggregator b) high availability solution (if one of
>> the slave links is down, you can be still use the rest slaves...
>>
>> K
>>
>> Karel Kulhavy napsal(a):
>>> Yes you can aggregate the bandwidths together. But I think if it's not
>>> possible
>>> that the network distributes the packets into the links. With OSPF or 
>>> BGP
>>> this is surely not possible as they choose always only one way for the
>>> data.
>>>
>>> You could maybe link aggregation over a virtual link created by tunnel
>>> Linux could support this. Otherwise there may be some advanced, new or
>>> experimental protocols I don't know about.
>>>
>>> If you have large or complicated enough network the traffic could 
>>> balance
>>> itself stochastically even with OSPF and BGP - data want to go the
>>> shortest way
>>> and what is the shortest for one destination is not shortest for 
>>> another.
>>>
>>> CL<
>>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 10:34:43PM -0400, kqj rocks wrote:
>>>> I know the ronja can be used as an ethernet based internet backbone. If
>>>> this is true will I be able to use them for an internet backhaul system
>>>> to hop data from ronja to ronja and increase speed of internet data
>>>> transfer to route internet data over a mesh network.  since the ronja 
>>>> can
>>>> be used as an internet backbone can it be used to act as a 10mbps
>>>> backbone for an ultra-high speed network where the internet speed of 
>>>> the
>>>> wireless network is 10mbps x number of ronjas plus the speed of the 
>>>> mesh
>>>> network's  internet  connection  11mbps???  what is the total internet
>>>> speed a cilent recieves when connecting to this wi-fi mesh network???>
>>>> From: ronja-request na lists.pointless.net> Subject: Ronja Digest, Vol 40,
>>>> Issue 22> To: ronja na lists.pointless.net> Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 
>>>> 18:13:52
>>>> +0100> > Send Ronja mailing list submissions to>
>>>> ronja na lists.pointless.net> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World
>>>> Wide Web, visit> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> or, via
>>>> email, se
>> nd a message with subject or body 'help' to>
>> ronja-request na lists.pointless.net> > You can reach the person managing 
>> the
>> list at> ronja-owner na lists.pointless.net> > When replying, please edit 
>> your
>> Subject line so it is more specific> than "Re: Contents of Ronja 
>> digest...">
>>  > > Today's Topics:> >    1. Re:  Dalsi linka (Jakub Sykora)>    2. Re:
>> Dalsi linka (Karel Kulhavy)>    3. Re:  ronja (Karel Kulhavy)>    4. Re:
>> [SPAM] Re: ronja (Karel Kulhavy)>    5. Re:  Dalsi linka (-=RYS=-)> >
>>  > ----------------------------------------------------------------------> 
>>  >
>> Message: 1> Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 13:33:21 +0200> From: Jakub Sykora
>> <kubajz na kbx.cz>> Subject: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> To: Twibright Ronja
>> <ronja na lists.pointless.net>> Message-ID: <44F57781.1050800 na kbx.cz>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2"> > Ne to nedelaji. Stejne 
>> tak
>> jsem nevidel kabel odolny proti blbcum :)> > K> > Karel Kulhavy 
>> napsal(a):>
>>  > On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 12:33:44AM +0200, Jakub Sykora wro
>> te:> >> Mno kabely se takovy urcite delaji - staci se podivat treba do
>> katalogu > >> Beldenu na kbaely DataTuff, ktere jsou pro prumyslove uziti 
>> a
>> jejich > >> vrchni slupka se dela v provedenich: odolne proti UV, proti
>> Mazivum, > >> proti Chemikaliim atp...> > > > Delaj taky odolnou proti
>> Chuckovi Norrisovi a Jacku Bauerovi?> > > > CL<> >> Ale nechci ani vedet
>> kolik toho stoji metr...> >>> >> K> >>> >> Karel Kulhavy napsal(a):> >>> 
>> On
>> Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 11:46:33PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote:> >>>> Ten venkovni 
>> UTP
>> ma drat 0.62mm a dvojitou "buzirku" okolo "dratu". Taky> >>>> "buzirka"
>> okolo dratu je silnejsi.> >>> A je na tom natisteno "outdoor" nebo to
>> vyrobce v katalogu uvadi? Aby> >>> to nebyla nejaka ustni tradice - zatim 
>> se
>> mi te legende o existenci> >>> venkovniho UTP/STP moc verit nechce.> >>>>
>>  >>> CL<> >>>> Taky to ma dvojitej plast obal.> >>>> Vim, ze existuje i 
>> STP
>> verze.> >>>> Ja to mam od znameho....kde to sehnal..nevim.> >>>> Ale mam
>> dojem, ze jsem to videl v katalog
>> u Alfatroniku.> >>>> Martin> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>
>> ______________________________________________________________> >>>>> Od:
>> clock na twibright.com> >>>>> Komu: Twibright Ronja
>> <ronja na lists.pointless.net>> >>>>> Datum: 28.08.2006 22:02> >>>>> 
>> P?edm?t:
>> Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> >>>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 09:01:06PM
>> +0200, -=RYS=- wrote:> >>>>>>> Vse je v provedeni venkovnim.> >>>>>> Ano,
>> existuje i UTP pro venkovni provedeni.> >>>>> Can you get STP for 
>> outdoor?
>> If yes, where? Or at least where you can get> >>>>> the outdoor UTP?> 
>>  >>>>>>
>>  >>>>> CL<> >>>>>> Filtr do 40MHz proti ruseni jsem samozrejme udelal.>
>>  >>>>>> I kdyz si myslim, ze za 78S15 nic "neleze" (meril jsem to) .> 
>>  >>>>>>
>> Martin> >>>>>>>
>> ______________________________________________________________> >>>>>>> 
>> Od:
>> clock na twibright.com> >>>>>>> Komu: Twibright Ronja
>> <ronja na lists.pointless.net>> >>>>>>> Datum: 28.08.2006 17:16> >>>>>>>
>> P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 
>> at
>> 03:49:20PM +
>> 0200, Cipis wrote:> >>>>>>>> Mno, ten chlap by pot?eboval do dr?ky, to je
>> fakt reprezentace jak > >>>>>>>> bl?zen.> >>>>>>>> S t?m datov?m kabelem 
>> to
>> nen? a? tak hork? - na t? posledn? fotce > >>>>>>>> hromosvod > jen 
>> k????,
>> ostatn? jsem moc ne?tudoval.> >>>>>>>> Sp?? to vypad? d?sn? hnusn?, na
>> providera, kter? to d?l? > >>>>>>>> profesion?ln?. I j? > bych dal ten
>> kousek do li?ty a od zdi k t?m > >>>>>>>> cajk?m bu? krk nebo takov? ten 
>>  >
>> omot?vac? nesmysl.> >>>>>>> For ordinary Ronja it would be just 
>> esthetical
>> matter - if the coaxial > >>>>>>> cable is> >>>>>>> outdoor it doesn't
>> matter if it's just thrown on the roof.  Even if > >>>>>>> it's not> 
>>  >>>>>>>
>> outdoor it affects just lifetime, not performance.  Anyway if you > 
>>  >>>>>>>
>> install a TV> >>>>>>> antenna you also throw the cable on a roof and 
>> don't
>> use any plastic > >>>>>>> ducts.> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> RyS is using TP. TP 
>> can
>> rot through on the weather and the signal > >>>>>>> inside UTP> >>>>>>> 
>> can
>> be affected electromagn
>> etically by pooling water even without > >>>>>>> insulation> >>>>>>> 
>> breach.
>> That's why I didn't put TP cable into the guide. In case of a > >>>>>>> 
>> TP
>> cable> >>>>>>> plastic ducts can have a technical benefit.> >>>>>>>> 
>>  >>>>>>>
>> When we installed Ronja we used outdoor coaxials and left them just >
>>  >>>>>>> lying on> >>>>>>> the tin roof. Sometimes we used plastic ties 
>> to
>> bundle cables together.> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> CL<> >>>>>>
>> _______________________________________________> >>>>>> Ronja mailing 
>> list>
>>  >>>>>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net> >>>>>>
>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> >>>>>
>> _______________________________________________> >>>>> Ronja mailing 
>> list>
>>  >>>>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net> >>>>>
>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> >>>>>> >>>>
>> _______________________________________________> >>>> Ronja mailing list>
>>  >>>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net> >>>>
>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> >>>> >>>
>> _______________________________________________> >>> Ronja
>>  mailing list> >>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net> >>>
>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> >> -- > >> Jakub S?kora> >>
>> email: kubajz na kbx.cz       <')> >> ICQ: 68976632               ( =-> >>
>> mobil: +420 777 594 201      ''> > > >> begin:vcard> >>
>> fn;quoted-printable:Jakub S=C3=BDkora> >>
>> n;quoted-printable:S=C3=BDkora;Jakub> >>
>> adr;quoted-printable:;;=C3=9Adoln=C3=AD 1273;Praha 4;;14200;Czech 
>> Republic>
>>  >> email;internet:kubajz na kbx.cz> >> tel;cell:+420 777 594 201> >>
>> url:http://kubajz.kbx.cz> >> version:2.1> >> end:vcard> >>> > > >>
>> _______________________________________________> >> Ronja mailing list> 
>>  >>
>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net> >> 
>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> >
>>  > > > > _______________________________________________> > Ronja mailing
>> list> > Ronja na lists.pointless.net> >
>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> > -- > Jakub S?kora> email:
>> kubajz na kbx.cz       <')> ICQ: 68976632               ( =-> mobil: +420 
>> 777
>> 594 201      ''> -------------- next
>> part --------------> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...> Name:
>> kubajz.vcf> Type: text/x-vcard> Size: 265 bytes> Desc: not available> Url 
>> :
>> http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20060830/5847c7ac/attachment-0001.vcf >
>>  > ------------------------------> > Message: 2> Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006
>> 14:29:53 +0200> From: Karel Kulhavy <clock na twibright.com>> Subject: Re:
>> [Ronja] Dalsi linka> To: Twibright Ronja <ronja na lists.pointless.net>>
>> Message-ID: <20060830122953.GA19221 na kestrel.twibright.com>> Content-Type:
>> text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1> > On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 12:34:24PM
>> +0200, -=RYS=- wrote:> > Je to podobne jako venkovnimu koaxu, 2x 
>> "buzirka"
>> okolo.> > Ta dvojita buzirka je kolem kazdyho dratku a nebo kolem celyho
>> toho kabelu?> > CL<> > Napsano tam neni nic, ale odhaduji, ze je to pro
>> ven.> > Martin> > > >
>> ______________________________________________________________> > > Od:
>> clock na twibright.com> > > Komu: Twibright Ronja 
>> <ronja na lists.pointless.net>>
>>  > > Datum: 30
>> .08.2006 00:16> > > P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> > >> > >On Mon, Aug
>> 28, 2006 at 11:46:33PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote:> > >> Ten venkovni UTP ma 
>> drat
>> 0.62mm a dvojitou "buzirku" okolo "dratu". Taky> > >> "buzirka" okolo 
>> dratu
>> je silnejsi.> > >> > >A je na tom natisteno "outdoor" nebo to vyrobce v
>> katalogu uvadi? Aby> > >to nebyla nejaka ustni tradice - zatim se mi te
>> legende o existenci> > >venkovniho UTP/STP moc verit nechce.> > >> > 
>>  >CL<> >
>>  >> Taky to ma dvojitej plast obal.> > >> Vim, ze existuje i STP verze.> 
>>  > >>
>> Ja to mam od znameho....kde to sehnal..nevim.> > >> Ale mam dojem, ze 
>> jsem
>> to videl v katalogu Alfatroniku.> > >> Martin> > >> > >
>> ______________________________________________________________> > >> > 
>> Od:
>> clock na twibright.com> > >> > Komu: Twibright Ronja
>> <ronja na lists.pointless.net>> > >> > Datum: 28.08.2006 22:02> > >> > 
>> P?edm?t:
>> Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> > >> >> > >> >On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 09:01:06PM
>> +0200, -=RYS=- wrote:> > >> >> > Vse je v provedeni venkovn
>> im.> > >> >> Ano, existuje i UTP pro venkovni provedeni.> > >> >> > >> 
>>  >Can
>> you get STP for outdoor? If yes, where? Or at least where you can get> > 
>>  >>
>>  >the outdoor UTP?> > >> >> > >> >CL<> > >> >> Filtr do 40MHz proti 
>> ruseni
>> jsem samozrejme udelal.> > >> >> I kdyz si myslim, ze za 78S15 nic 
>> "neleze"
>> (meril jsem to) .> > >> >> Martin> > >> >> >
>> ______________________________________________________________> > >> >> >
>> Od: clock na twibright.com> > >> >> > Komu: Twibright Ronja
>> <ronja na lists.pointless.net>> > >> >> > Datum: 28.08.2006 17:16> > >> >> >
>> P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> > >> >> >> > >> >> >On Mon, Aug 28, 
>> 2006
>> at 03:49:20PM +0200, Cipis wrote:> > >> >> >> Mno, ten chlap by 
>> pot?eboval
>> do dr?ky, to je fakt reprezentace jak bl?zen.> > >> >> >> S t?m datov?m
>> kabelem to nen? a? tak hork? - na t? posledn? fotce hromosvod > jen 
>> k????,
>> ostatn? jsem moc ne?tudoval.> > >> >> >> Sp?? to vypad? d?sn? hnusn?, na
>> providera, kter? to d?l? profesion?ln?. I j? > bych dal ten kousek d
>> o li?ty a od zdi k t?m cajk?m bu? krk nebo takov? ten > omot?vac? 
>> nesmysl.>
>>  > >> >> >> > >> >> >For ordinary Ronja it would be just esthetical 
>> matter -
>> if the coaxial cable is> > >> >> >outdoor it doesn't matter if it's just
>> thrown on the roof. ?Even if it's not> > >> >> >outdoor it affects just
>> lifetime, not performance. ?Anyway if you install a TV> > >> >> >antenna 
>> you
>> also throw the cable on a roof and don't use any plastic ducts.> > >> >> 
>>  >>
>>  > >> >> >RyS is using TP. TP can rot through on the weather and the 
>> signal
>> inside UTP> > >> >> >can be affected electromagnetically by pooling water
>> even without insulation> > >> >> >breach. ?That's why I didn't put TP 
>> cable
>> into the guide. In case of a TP cable> > >> >> >plastic ducts can have a
>> technical benefit.> > >> >> >> > >> >> >When we installed Ronja we used
>> outdoor coaxials and left them just lying on> > >> >> >the tin roof.
>> Sometimes we used plastic ties to bundle cables together.> > >> >> >> > 
>>  >>
>>  >> >CL<> > >> >> > > > >>
>> _______________________________________________> > >> >> Ronja mailing 
>> list>
>>  > >> >> Ronja na lists.pointless.net> > >> >>
>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> > >> >> > >> >> > >>
>>  >_______________________________________________> > >> >Ronja mailing 
>> list>
>>  > >> >Ronja na lists.pointless.net> > >>
>>  >http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> > >> > > > > > >>
>> _______________________________________________> > >> Ronja mailing list> 
>>  >
>>  >> Ronja na lists.pointless.net> > >>
>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> > >> > >> >
>>  >_______________________________________________> > >Ronja mailing list> 
>>  >
>>  >Ronja na lists.pointless.net> > 
>>  >http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja>
>>  > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________> > 
>> Ronja
>> mailing list> > Ronja na lists.pointless.net> >
>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> > > >
>>  > ------------------------------> > Message: 3> Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006
>> 15:31:37 +0200> From: Karel Kulhavy <clock na twibright.com>> Subjec
>> t: Re: [Ronja] ronja> To: Mark Oldham <marko na idsystemsuk.co.uk>> Cc:
>> Twibright Ronja <ronja na lists.pointless.net>> Message-ID:
>> <20060830133137.GA20676 na kestrel.twibright.com>> Content-Type: text/plain;
>> charset=us-ascii> > On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 12:27:28PM +0100, Mark Oldham
>> wrote:> > hello karel> > > > i came accross this
>> http://ronja.twibright.com/models.php> > > > im very interested in 
>> prices> >
>> I am just developing and publishing, not manufacturing and selling. But
>> someone> on mailing list said he wants to sell a used device.> > > > > if 
>> i
>> understand correct you can transmit ethernet data transparently with> > 
>> this
>> method> > yes.> > CL<> > > > best regards> > > > mark> > >
>>  > ------------------------------> > Message: 4> Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006
>> 18:25:58 +0200> From: Karel Kulhavy <clock na twibright.com>> Subject: Re:
>> [Ronja] [SPAM] Re: ronja> To: marko <marko na idsystemsuk.co.uk>> Cc: 
>> Twibright
>> Ronja <ronja na lists.pointless.net>> Message-ID:
>> <20060830162558.GB1857 na kestrel.twibrigh
>> t.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii> > On Wed, Aug 30, 
>> 2006
>> at 03:55:46PM +0100, marko wrote:> > I am just developing and publishing,
>> not manufacturing and selling. But > > someone> > >on mailing list said 
>> he
>> wants to sell a used device.> > > > do you have this persons contact
>> details> > I don't remember. But I sent the reply there so if he's
>> interested I guess> he'll write you.  He's from Czech Republic. Maybe 
>> there
>> were even two persons> like this, I am not sure.> > CL<> > > > thanks> >
>> mark> > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Karel Kulhavy"
>> <clock na twibright.com>> > To: "Mark Oldham" <marko na idsystemsuk.co.uk>> > 
>> Cc:
>> "Twibright Ronja" <ronja na lists.pointless.net>> > Sent: Wednesday, August 
>> 30,
>> 2006 2:31 PM> > Subject: [SPAM] Re: ronja> > > > > > >On Wed, Aug 30, 
>> 2006
>> at 12:27:28PM +0100, Mark Oldham wrote:> > >>hello karel> > >>> > >>i 
>> came
>> accross this http://ronja.twibright.com/models.php> > >>> > >>im very
>> interested in prices> > >> > >I am just d
>> eveloping and publishing, not manufacturing and selling. But > > 
>>  >someone> >
>>  >on mailing list said he wants to sell a used device.> > >> > >>> > >>if 
>> i
>> understand correct you can transmit ethernet data transparently with> >
>>  >>this method> > >> > >yes.> > >> > >CL<> > >>> > >>best regards> > >>> 
>>  >
>>  >>mark > > > > ------------------------------> > Message: 5> Date: Wed, 
>> 30
>> Aug 2006 19:13:14 +0200> From: "-=RYS=-" <cd930 na centrum.cz>> Subject: Re:
>> [Ronja] Dalsi linka> To: <ronja na lists.pointless.net>> Message-ID:
>> <200608301913.1144 na centrum.cz>> Content-Type: text/plain;
>> charset="windows-1250"> > Kolem celeho kabelu.> >
>> ______________________________________________________________> > Od:
>> clock na twibright.com> > Komu: Twibright Ronja <ronja na lists.pointless.net>> 
>>  >
>> Datum: 30.08.2006 14:30> > P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> >> >On Wed, 
>> Aug
>> 30, 2006 at 12:34:24PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote:> >> Je to podobne jako
>> venkovnimu koaxu, 2x "buzirka" okolo.> >> >Ta dvojita buzirka je kolem
>> kazdyho
>>  dratku a nebo kolem celyho toho kabelu?> >> >CL<> >> Napsano tam neni 
>> nic,
>> ale odhaduji, ze je to pro ven.> >> Martin> >> >
>> ______________________________________________________________> >> > Od:
>> clock na twibright.com> >> > Komu: Twibright Ronja 
>> <ronja na lists.pointless.net>>
>>  >> > Datum: 30.08.2006 00:16> >> > P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> >> 
>>  >>
>>  >> >On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 11:46:33PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote:> >> >> Ten
>> venkovni UTP ma drat 0.62mm a dvojitou "buzirku" okolo "dratu". Taky> >> 
>>  >>
>> "buzirka" okolo dratu je silnejsi.> >> >> >> >A je na tom natisteno
>> "outdoor" nebo to vyrobce v katalogu uvadi? Aby> >> >to nebyla nejaka 
>> ustni
>> tradice - zatim se mi te legende o existenci> >> >venkovniho UTP/STP moc
>> verit nechce.> >> >> >> >CL<> >> >> Taky to ma dvojitej plast obal.> >> 
>>  >>
>> Vim, ze existuje i STP verze.> >> >> Ja to mam od znameho....kde to
>> sehnal..nevim.> >> >> Ale mam dojem, ze jsem to videl v katalogu
>> Alfatroniku.> >> >> Martin> >> >> > > _____________________________
>> _________________________________> >> >> > Od: clock na twibright.com> >> >> 
>>  >
>> Komu: Twibright Ronja <ronja na lists.pointless.net>> >> >> > Datum: 
>> 28.08.2006
>> 22:02> >> >> > P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> >> >> >> >> >> >On Mon, 
>> Aug
>> 28, 2006 at 09:01:06PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote:> >> >> >> > Vse je v 
>> provedeni
>> venkovnim.> >> >> >> Ano, existuje i UTP pro venkovni provedeni.> >> >> 
>>  >>
>>  >> >> >Can you get STP for outdoor? If yes, where? Or at least where you 
>> can
>> get> >> >> >the outdoor UTP?> >> >> >> >> >> >CL<> >> >> >> Filtr do 
>> 40MHz
>> proti ruseni jsem samozrejme udelal.> >> >> >> I kdyz si myslim, ze za 
>> 78S15
>> nic "neleze" (meril jsem to) .> >> >> >> Martin> >> >> >> >
>> ______________________________________________________________> >> >> >> 
>>  >
>> Od: clock na twibright.com> >> >> >> > Komu: Twibright Ronja
>> <ronja na lists.pointless.net>> >> >> >> > Datum: 28.08.2006 17:16> >> >> >> 
>>  >
>> P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >On Mon, Aug 28, 
>> 2006
>> at 03:49:20PM +0200, Cipis wrote:>
>>  >> >> >> >> Mno, ten chlap by pot?eboval do dr?ky, to je fakt 
>> reprezentace
>> jak bl?zen.> >> >> >> >> S t?m datov?m kabelem to nen? a? tak hork? - na 
>> t?
>> posledn? fotce hromosvod > jen k????, ostatn? jsem moc ne?tudoval.> >> >> 
>>  >>
>>  >> Sp?? to vypad? d?sn? hnusn?, na providera, kter? to d?l? 
>> profesion?ln?. I
>> j? > bych dal ten kousek do li?ty a od zdi k t?m cajk?m bu? krk nebo 
>> takov?
>> ten > omot?vac? nesmysl.> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >For ordinary Ronja it 
>> would
>> be just esthetical matter - if the coaxial cable is> >> >> >> >outdoor it
>> doesn't matter if it's just thrown on the roof. ?Even if it's not> >> >> 
>>  >>
>>  >outdoor it affects just lifetime, not performance. ?Anyway if you 
>> install a
>> TV> >> >> >> >antenna you also throw the cable on a roof and don't use 
>> any
>> plastic ducts.> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >RyS is using TP. TP can rot through 
>> on
>> the weather and the signal inside UTP> >> >> >> >can be affected
>> electromagnetically by pooling water even without insulation> >> >> >>
>>  >breach. ?That's
>> why I didn't put TP cable into the guide. In case of a TP cable> >> >> >>
>>  >plastic ducts can have a technical benefit.> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >When 
>> we
>> installed Ronja we used outdoor coaxials and left them just lying on> >> 
>>  >>
>>  >> >the tin roof. Sometimes we used plastic ties to bundle cables 
>> together.>
>>  >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >CL<> >> >> >> > > > >>
>> _______________________________________________> >> >> >> Ronja mailing
>> list> >> >> >> Ronja na lists.pointless.net> >> >> >>
>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>
>>  >_______________________________________________> >> >> >Ronja mailing 
>> list>
>>  >> >> >Ronja na lists.pointless.net> >> >>
>>  >http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> >> >> > > > > >>
>> _______________________________________________> >> >> Ronja mailing 
>> list>
>>  >> >> Ronja na lists.pointless.net> >> >>
>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> >> >> >> >> >>
>>  >_______________________________________________> >> >Ronja mailing 
>> list> >>
>>  >Ronja na lists.pointl
>> ess.net> >> >http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> >> > > > > >>
>> _______________________________________________> >> Ronja mailing list> 
>>  >>
>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net> >> 
>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja>
>>  >> >> >_______________________________________________> >Ronja mailing 
>> list>
>>  >Ronja na lists.pointless.net> 
>>  >http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> >
>>  > > -------------- next part --------------> An HTML attachment was
>> scrubbed...> URL:
>> http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20060830/14e45f9f/attachment.html >
>>  > ------------------------------> >
>> _______________________________________________> Ronja mailing list>
>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> > 
>>  >
>> End of Ronja Digest, Vol 40, Issue 22> 
>> *************************************
>>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>>> Express yourself with gadgets on Windows Live Spaces
>>>> http://discoverspaces.live.com?source=hmtag1&loc=us
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Ronja mailing list
>>>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
>>>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Ronja mailing list
>>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
>>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>> -- 
>> Jakub S?kora
>> email: kubajz na kbx.cz       <')
>> ICQ: 68976632               ( =-
>> mobil: +420 777 594 201      ''
>>
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Ronja mailing list
>>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
>>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ronja mailing list
>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja

-- 
Jakub S?kora
email: kubajz na kbx.cz       <')
ICQ: 68976632               ( =-
mobil: +420 777 594 201      ''

_______________________________________________
Ronja mailing list
Ronja na lists.pointless.net
http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja 



From petr.cipis at tiscali.cz  Fri Sep  1 14:34:50 2006
From: petr.cipis at tiscali.cz (Cipis)
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 15:34:50 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] ronja as backbone
References: <449775530009672C@nzoth.tiscali.cz>
Message-ID: <002201c6cdcb$66969e80$5046a8c0@cipis.net>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Cipis" <cz723660 na tiscali.cz>
To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja na lists.pointless.net>
Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 10:13 AM
Subject: Re: [Ronja] ronja as backbone


Drtiva vetsina wifin ma podporu STA (spanning tree). Maj? to i ty 
nejoby?ejn?j??
kr?my, jako je ovis 1120AP.
Obzvlaste tyto se hodi, protoze maji dva eth porty. Neda se sice nikde nic
nastavit (cena spoje atd.), ale v zakladu to funguje tak, ze dava prednost
dratu a az po rozpojeni dratoveho spojeni prepne na wifinu. Wifina je linkla
stale, takze je to otazka par sekund. Takto jsem to zkousel, ovsem bez 
ronji,
jen s kabelazi.

Cipis

>On Thu, Aug 31, 2006 at 01:54:32PM +0200, Pavel Srnka wrote:
>> Nevite prosim nekdo jak zalohovat ronji spoje wifinou bez pouziti linux
>
>> routru ? tzn necim na urovni switchu ?
>> Stacila by treba podpora spaning tree protokolu ?
>


______________________________________
Superrychl? internet od TISCALI na 3 m?s?ce za pouh? 3 K?!

http://sluzby.tiscali.cz/domacnosti/adsl/adsl-512-promo.php?r=pb






From cd930 at centrum.cz  Fri Sep  1 14:51:14 2006
From: cd930 at centrum.cz (-=RYS=-)
Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 15:51:14 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Ronja pres odraz od mraku?
Message-ID: <200609011551.4344@centrum.cz>

Co zkusit FSO pres odraz od mraku na 40km ?
http://pageperso.aol.fr/F1AVYopto/CBUKpres.pdf
-=RYS=-


------------- dal?? ??st ---------------
HTML p??loha byla odstran?na...
URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20060901/ee0bd07d/attachment.html 

From clock at twibright.com  Fri Sep  1 14:59:18 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 15:59:18 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] ronja as backbone
In-Reply-To: <002201c6cdcb$66969e80$5046a8c0@cipis.net>
References: <449775530009672C@nzoth.tiscali.cz>
	<002201c6cdcb$66969e80$5046a8c0@cipis.net>
Message-ID: <20060901135918.GA22659@kestrel.twibright.com>

On Fri, Sep 01, 2006 at 03:34:50PM +0200, Cipis wrote:
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Cipis" <cz723660 at tiscali.cz>
> To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
> Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 10:13 AM
> Subject: Re: [Ronja] ronja as backbone
> 
> 
> Drtiva vetsina wifin ma podporu STA (spanning tree). Maj? to i ty 
> nejoby?ejn?j??
> kr?my, jako je ovis 1120AP.
> Obzvlaste tyto se hodi, protoze maji dva eth porty. Neda se sice nikde nic
> nastavit (cena spoje atd.), ale v zakladu to funguje tak, ze dava prednost
> dratu a az po rozpojeni dratoveho spojeni prepne na wifinu. Wifina je linkla
> stale, takze je to otazka par sekund. Takto jsem to zkousel, ovsem bez 
> ronji,
> jen s kabelazi.

It should theoretically work - the time for which Ronja has packetloss during
fog is short, it usually either runs fine or doesn't run at all, so the
resulting time of packetlossy connection should be very short.

I observed even that the packetloss went from unmeasurably low to unmeasurably
high in 1 second (during a fog, not by putting a hand in front of the RX). 

CL<

> 
> Cipis
> 
> >On Thu, Aug 31, 2006 at 01:54:32PM +0200, Pavel Srnka wrote:
> >> Nevite prosim nekdo jak zalohovat ronji spoje wifinou bez pouziti linux
> >
> >> routru ? tzn necim na urovni switchu ?
> >> Stacila by treba podpora spaning tree protokolu ?
> >
> 
> 
> ______________________________________
> Superrychl? internet od TISCALI na 3 m?s?ce za pouh? 3 K?!
> 
> http://sluzby.tiscali.cz/domacnosti/adsl/adsl-512-promo.php?r=pb
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From clock at twibright.com  Fri Sep  1 15:07:02 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 16:07:02 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Ronja pres odraz od mraku?
In-Reply-To: <200609011551.4344@centrum.cz>
References: <200609011551.4344@centrum.cz>
Message-ID: <20060901140702.GB22659@kestrel.twibright.com>

On Fri, Sep 01, 2006 at 03:51:14PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote:
> Co zkusit FSO pres odraz od mraku na 40km ?
> http://pageperso.aol.fr/F1AVYopto/CBUKpres.pdf
> -=RYS=-

Hello my name is Quintus Murray, I am a mental prodigy school kid from New
York, can I use the Ronja system to deliver 10Gbps connectivity over 40km range
without visible range?

Not really :) But one could use it to remotely signalize a router reboot
in case it got stuck. Just some encryption would be necessary to
prevent unauthorized reboots.

That PDF reminds me my idea to put a welding arc in the focus of a huge fresnel
lens. Has anyone tried that? :)

CL<
> 
> 

> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja



From srnkap at extranetplus.cz  Fri Sep  1 16:34:11 2006
From: srnkap at extranetplus.cz (Pavel Srnka)
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 17:34:11 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] ronja as backbone
References: <449775530009672C@nzoth.tiscali.cz><002201c6cdcb$66969e80$5046a8c0@cipis.net>
	<20060901135918.GA22659@kestrel.twibright.com>
Message-ID: <002001c6cddc$125fb840$f2464d3e@homec911b8ae22>

No kdyby to fungovalo bylo by to samozrejme supr (staci pri velkym 
packetlossu), nicmene nahodou jednoho 1120AP mam a nemuzu nikde STP najit, 
nerkuli ze u jinejch wifin  (dlink, compex etc) sem to taky nevidel ??


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Karel Kulhavy" <clock na twibright.com>
To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja na lists.pointless.net>
Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 3:59 PM
Subject: Re: [Ronja] ronja as backbone


On Fri, Sep 01, 2006 at 03:34:50PM +0200, Cipis wrote:
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Cipis" <cz723660 na tiscali.cz>
> To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja na lists.pointless.net>
> Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 10:13 AM
> Subject: Re: [Ronja] ronja as backbone
>
>
> Drtiva vetsina wifin ma podporu STA (spanning tree). Maj? to i ty
> nejoby?ejn?j??
> kr?my, jako je ovis 1120AP.
> Obzvlaste tyto se hodi, protoze maji dva eth porty. Neda se sice nikde nic
> nastavit (cena spoje atd.), ale v zakladu to funguje tak, ze dava prednost
> dratu a az po rozpojeni dratoveho spojeni prepne na wifinu. Wifina je 
> linkla
> stale, takze je to otazka par sekund. Takto jsem to zkousel, ovsem bez
> ronji,
> jen s kabelazi.

It should theoretically work - the time for which Ronja has packetloss 
during
fog is short, it usually either runs fine or doesn't run at all, so the
resulting time of packetlossy connection should be very short.

I observed even that the packetloss went from unmeasurably low to 
unmeasurably
high in 1 second (during a fog, not by putting a hand in front of the RX).

CL<

>
> Cipis
>
> >On Thu, Aug 31, 2006 at 01:54:32PM +0200, Pavel Srnka wrote:
> >> Nevite prosim nekdo jak zalohovat ronji spoje wifinou bez pouziti linux
> >
> >> routru ? tzn necim na urovni switchu ?
> >> Stacila by treba podpora spaning tree protokolu ?
> >
>
>
> ______________________________________
> Superrychl? internet od TISCALI na 3 m?s?ce za pouh? 3 K?!
>
> http://sluzby.tiscali.cz/domacnosti/adsl/adsl-512-promo.php?r=pb
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja

_______________________________________________
Ronja mailing list
Ronja na lists.pointless.net
http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja 



From petr.cipis at tiscali.cz  Fri Sep  1 16:56:59 2006
From: petr.cipis at tiscali.cz (Cipis)
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 17:56:59 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] ronja as backbone
References: <449775530009672C@nzoth.tiscali.cz><002201c6cdcb$66969e80$5046a8c0@cipis.net><20060901135918.GA22659@kestrel.twibright.com>
	<002001c6cddc$125fb840$f2464d3e@homec911b8ae22>
Message-ID: <003101c6cddf$41de3300$5046a8c0@cipis.net>

802.1d Spanning Tree

volba TCP/IP, basic

Cipis


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Pavel Srnka" <srnkap na extranetplus.cz>
To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja na lists.pointless.net>
Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 5:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Ronja] ronja as backbone


No kdyby to fungovalo bylo by to samozrejme supr (staci pri velkym
packetlossu), nicmene nahodou jednoho 1120AP mam a nemuzu nikde STP najit,
nerkuli ze u jinejch wifin  (dlink, compex etc) sem to taky nevidel ??


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Karel Kulhavy" <clock na twibright.com>
To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja na lists.pointless.net>
Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 3:59 PM
Subject: Re: [Ronja] ronja as backbone


On Fri, Sep 01, 2006 at 03:34:50PM +0200, Cipis wrote:
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Cipis" <cz723660 na tiscali.cz>
> To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja na lists.pointless.net>
> Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 10:13 AM
> Subject: Re: [Ronja] ronja as backbone
>
>
> Drtiva vetsina wifin ma podporu STA (spanning tree). Maj? to i ty
> nejoby?ejn?j??
> kr?my, jako je ovis 1120AP.
> Obzvlaste tyto se hodi, protoze maji dva eth porty. Neda se sice nikde nic
> nastavit (cena spoje atd.), ale v zakladu to funguje tak, ze dava prednost
> dratu a az po rozpojeni dratoveho spojeni prepne na wifinu. Wifina je
> linkla
> stale, takze je to otazka par sekund. Takto jsem to zkousel, ovsem bez
> ronji,
> jen s kabelazi.

It should theoretically work - the time for which Ronja has packetloss
during
fog is short, it usually either runs fine or doesn't run at all, so the
resulting time of packetlossy connection should be very short.

I observed even that the packetloss went from unmeasurably low to
unmeasurably
high in 1 second (during a fog, not by putting a hand in front of the RX).

CL<

>
> Cipis
>
> >On Thu, Aug 31, 2006 at 01:54:32PM +0200, Pavel Srnka wrote:
> >> Nevite prosim nekdo jak zalohovat ronji spoje wifinou bez pouziti linux
> >
> >> routru ? tzn necim na urovni switchu ?
> >> Stacila by treba podpora spaning tree protokolu ?
> >
>
>
> ______________________________________
> Superrychl? internet od TISCALI na 3 m?s?ce za pouh? 3 K?!
>
> http://sluzby.tiscali.cz/domacnosti/adsl/adsl-512-promo.php?r=pb
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja

_______________________________________________
Ronja mailing list
Ronja na lists.pointless.net
http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


_______________________________________________
Ronja mailing list
Ronja na lists.pointless.net
http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja 



From petr.cipis at tiscali.cz  Fri Sep  1 17:02:01 2006
From: petr.cipis at tiscali.cz (Cipis)
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 18:02:01 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] ronja as backbone
References: <449775530009672C@nzoth.tiscali.cz><002201c6cdcb$66969e80$5046a8c0@cipis.net><20060901135918.GA22659@kestrel.twibright.com><002001c6cddc$125fb840$f2464d3e@homec911b8ae22>
	<003101c6cddf$41de3300$5046a8c0@cipis.net>
Message-ID: <003801c6cddf$f5e95af0$5046a8c0@cipis.net>

WL5000AP:
Advanced Settings
Bridge  Enable STP

WL1120AP:
volba TCP/IP, basic
802.1d Spanning Tree

Orinoco:
Configure - Bridge
Spanning Tree

Cipis


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Pavel Srnka" <srnkap na extranetplus.cz>
To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja na lists.pointless.net>
Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 5:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Ronja] ronja as backbone


No kdyby to fungovalo bylo by to samozrejme supr (staci pri velkym
packetlossu), nicmene nahodou jednoho 1120AP mam a nemuzu nikde STP najit,
nerkuli ze u jinejch wifin  (dlink, compex etc) sem to taky nevidel ??




From zajio1am at artax.karlin.mff.cuni.cz  Fri Sep  1 17:07:07 2006
From: zajio1am at artax.karlin.mff.cuni.cz (Ondrej Zajicek)
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 18:07:07 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] ronja as backbone
In-Reply-To: <002001c6cddc$125fb840$f2464d3e@homec911b8ae22>
References: <20060901135918.GA22659@kestrel.twibright.com>
	<002001c6cddc$125fb840$f2464d3e@homec911b8ae22>
Message-ID: <20060901160707.GB14115@localhost.localdomain>

On Fri, Sep 01, 2006 at 05:34:11PM +0200, Pavel Srnka wrote:
> No kdyby to fungovalo bylo by to samozrejme supr (staci pri velkym 
> packetlossu), nicmene nahodou jednoho 1120AP mam a nemuzu nikde STP najit, 
> nerkuli ze u jinejch wifin  (dlink, compex etc) sem to taky nevidel ??

v 1120AP je standardne Linux, takze STP by to melo umet
(standardni Linuxovy bridge system ma dokonce STP defaultne povolene).

Pokud si tam nahrajes distribuci ShoRTLinux, tak by nemel byt problem
ani s nastavenim.

http://www.euodeio.net/shortlinux.php

-- 
Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo

Ondrej 'SanTiago' Zajicek (email: santiago at mail.cz, jabber: santiago at njs.netlab.cz)
OpenPGP encrypted e-mails preferred (KeyID 0x11DEADC3, wwwkeys.pgp.net)
"To err is human -- to blame it on a computer is even more so."
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From srnkap at extranetplus.cz  Fri Sep  1 19:26:20 2006
From: srnkap at extranetplus.cz (Pavel Srnka)
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 20:26:20 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] ronja as backbone
References: <449775530009672C@nzoth.tiscali.cz><002201c6cdcb$66969e80$5046a8c0@cipis.net><20060901135918.GA22659@kestrel.twibright.com><002001c6cddc$125fb840$f2464d3e@homec911b8ae22><003101c6cddf$41de3300$5046a8c0@cipis.net>
	<003801c6cddf$f5e95af0$5046a8c0@cipis.net>
Message-ID: <004101c6cdf4$1f3ec700$f2464d3e@homec911b8ae22>

nj,, pardon,, nicmene 1120AP asi neumi transparentni bridge jako treba 
dlinky proti sobe z e? ,, zkousel jsem je jednou propojit switche modem 
client proti sobe, a nechodilo to korektne :( orinoca jsou drahy :(



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Cipis" <petr.cipis na tiscali.cz>
To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja na lists.pointless.net>
Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 6:02 PM
Subject: Re: [Ronja] ronja as backbone


> WL5000AP:
> Advanced Settings
> Bridge  Enable STP
>
> WL1120AP:
> volba TCP/IP, basic
> 802.1d Spanning Tree
>
> Orinoco:
> Configure - Bridge
> Spanning Tree
>
> Cipis
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Pavel Srnka" <srnkap na extranetplus.cz>
> To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja na lists.pointless.net>
> Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 5:34 PM
> Subject: Re: [Ronja] ronja as backbone
>
>
> No kdyby to fungovalo bylo by to samozrejme supr (staci pri velkym
> packetlossu), nicmene nahodou jednoho 1120AP mam a nemuzu nikde STP najit,
> nerkuli ze u jinejch wifin  (dlink, compex etc) sem to taky nevidel ??
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja 



From petr.cipis at tiscali.cz  Fri Sep  1 22:58:48 2006
From: petr.cipis at tiscali.cz (Cipis)
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 23:58:48 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] ronja as backbone
References: <449775530009672C@nzoth.tiscali.cz><002201c6cdcb$66969e80$5046a8c0@cipis.net><20060901135918.GA22659@kestrel.twibright.com><002001c6cddc$125fb840$f2464d3e@homec911b8ae22><003101c6cddf$41de3300$5046a8c0@cipis.net><003801c6cddf$f5e95af0$5046a8c0@cipis.net>
	<004101c6cdf4$1f3ec700$f2464d3e@homec911b8ae22>
Message-ID: <002201c6ce11$cd6bfc90$5046a8c0@cipis.net>

Spoj to AP+WDS, je to pak naprosto transparentne.
Pokud WDS pouzijes jen v tomto pripade, tak je propustnost i vyssi nez 
klient x AP.
Pri opuziti WDS na vice rapidne klesa propustnost.
Takze dva 1120AP proti sobe jako AP+WDS.

Cipis


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Pavel Srnka" <srnkap na extranetplus.cz>
To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja na lists.pointless.net>
Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 8:26 PM
Subject: Re: [Ronja] ronja as backbone


> nj,, pardon,, nicmene 1120AP asi neumi transparentni bridge jako treba
> dlinky proti sobe z e? ,, zkousel jsem je jednou propojit switche modem
> client proti sobe, a nechodilo to korektne :( orinoca jsou drahy :(
>
>
>



From srnkap at extranetplus.cz  Sat Sep  2 11:51:23 2006
From: srnkap at extranetplus.cz (Pavel Srnka)
Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2006 12:51:23 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] ronja as backbone
References: <449775530009672C@nzoth.tiscali.cz><002201c6cdcb$66969e80$5046a8c0@cipis.net><20060901135918.GA22659@kestrel.twibright.com><002001c6cddc$125fb840$f2464d3e@homec911b8ae22><003101c6cddf$41de3300$5046a8c0@cipis.net><003801c6cddf$f5e95af0$5046a8c0@cipis.net><004101c6cdf4$1f3ec700$f2464d3e@homec911b8ae22>
	<002201c6ce11$cd6bfc90$5046a8c0@cipis.net>
Message-ID: <000601c6ce7d$bb1e0b20$f2464d3e@homec911b8ae22>

diky moc !! jestli to pofakci tak je to genialni,,



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Cipis" <petr.cipis na tiscali.cz>
To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja na lists.pointless.net>
Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 11:58 PM
Subject: Re: [Ronja] ronja as backbone


> Spoj to AP+WDS, je to pak naprosto transparentne.
> Pokud WDS pouzijes jen v tomto pripade, tak je propustnost i vyssi nez 
> klient x AP.
> Pri opuziti WDS na vice rapidne klesa propustnost.
> Takze dva 1120AP proti sobe jako AP+WDS.
> 
> Cipis
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Pavel Srnka" <srnkap na extranetplus.cz>
> To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja na lists.pointless.net>
> Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 8:26 PM
> Subject: Re: [Ronja] ronja as backbone
> 
> 
>> nj,, pardon,, nicmene 1120AP asi neumi transparentni bridge jako treba
>> dlinky proti sobe z e? ,, zkousel jsem je jednou propojit switche modem
>> client proti sobe, a nechodilo to korektne :( orinoca jsou drahy :(
>>
>>
>>
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From qjmurray at hotmail.com  Sat Sep  2 17:25:46 2006
From: qjmurray at hotmail.com (kqj rocks)
Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2006 12:25:46 -0400
Subject: [Ronja] ronja as backbone advanced switches
Message-ID: <BAY124-W7855CA7A628222C65D7F7D43D0@phx.gbl>

so if only advanced switches support multiple port link aggregation do you know any ethernet switch that does this???
_________________________________________________________________
Check the weather nationwide with MSN Search: Try it now!
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From clock at twibright.com  Sat Sep  2 18:20:00 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2006 19:20:00 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Another Ronja link
Message-ID: <20060902172000.GA13333@kestrel.twibright.com>

Hehe :)

We just set up a new Ronja link between czfree nodes Prague Bakulak and Mars.
See picture at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Starfield_Optical_Range_-_sodium_laser.jpg

TX: Water-cooled 5$ Chinese laser pointer driven directly from 220VAC
RX: old 3.5m mirror from Petrin mirror maze

The only problem we have is the roundtrip, which is about 20 minutes. Otherwise
there is no packetloss. Anyone knows what could be the problem? A faulty
switch? ;-)

CL<


From clock at twibright.com  Sat Sep  2 19:59:14 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2006 20:59:14 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Prodej optickeho spoje
In-Reply-To: <003201c6c08a$131f5c40$ac5c2093@maximus>
References: <003201c6c08a$131f5c40$ac5c2093@maximus>
Message-ID: <20060902185913.GA4865@kestrel.twibright.com>

On Tue, Aug 15, 2006 at 06:44:28PM +0200, Ji?? Rozumek wrote:
> Fotky jedne strany spoje a elektroniky jsou na http://ronja.xf.cz . Jedna se

Kolik metru ma ta linka co jsou tam od ni fotky?

CL<
> o jednu z instalaci v Tupesich - v galerii jsou fotky z jine instalace. Jinak
> todle byla posledni tupeska Ronja, vsechny ostatni uz jsou nahrazeny 5 GHz
> spoji. Co se tyka prodeje tak na prodej budou asi vsecky, ale osobne
> "vlastnim" jen jednu. Co se tyka ostatnich tak mam kontakt na cloveka co by
> to mohl zprostredkovat.

> 
> 
> Jiri Rozumek
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja



From clock at twibright.com  Sun Sep  3 11:06:12 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2006 12:06:12 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] jklamer link Prague 200m
Message-ID: <20060903100612.GA12874@kestrel.twibright.com>

Does anyone have an idea where this link is in Prague?
http://images.twibright.com/tns/ceb.html

CL<


From clock at twibright.com  Sun Sep  3 11:24:29 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2006 12:24:29 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Added maps into the gallery of installations
Message-ID: <20060903102429.GA20149@kestrel.twibright.com>

I added little maps into the 6th column of the Gallery of Registered
Installations at http://ronja.twibright.com/installations.php

If any map is wrong (belongs to a different link) or I forgot to include some
map, please tell me, thanks.

CL<


From clock at twibright.com  Sun Sep  3 21:57:12 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2006 22:57:12 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Photogallery generator released
Message-ID: <20060903205712.GA11007@kestrel.twibright.com>

I have released Twig, the photogallery generator that was written for
Ronja. see http://ronja.twibright.com/utils/twig/

CL<


From kubajz at kbx.cz  Tue Sep  5 13:19:40 2006
From: kubajz at kbx.cz (Jakub Sykora)
Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 14:19:40 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] ronja as backbone
In-Reply-To: <1157051517.44f7347dba71b@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
References: <BAY124-W22D406983BAE7FC040928D43F0@phx.gbl>	<20060831102515.GA856@kestrel.twibright.com>	<44F6C335.2010404@kbx.cz>
	<1157051517.44f7347dba71b@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
Message-ID: <44FD6B5C.8040904@kbx.cz>

Ted koukam treba na switche od Repotecu 1708I. Je to celkem inteligentni 
strojecek, ale jak je jednoduchej, tak se tam da port trunking nastavit 
nezavisle na nastaveni portu.
Budu si jeden kupovat na hrani, tak to schvalne odzkousim.

Skoda, ze stoji 3k...

K

Petr Seliger wrote:
> Cituji z emailu od Jakub Sykora <kubajz na kbx.cz>:
> 
>> Some advanced switches support multiple ports to be aggregated. I did 
>> not try it although we have some in our network...
> 
> Podporujou ale jen jako 2* nebo 4* 100Mbps fullduplex. Co by chodilo s ronjou na
> 10 jsem jeste nevidel.
> 
>> K
>>
>> Karel Kulhavy napsal(a):
>>> Yes you can aggregate the bandwidths together. But I think if it's not
>> possible
>>> that the network distributes the packets into the links. With OSPF or BGP
>>> this is surely not possible as they choose always only one way for the
>> data.
>>> You could maybe link aggregation over a virtual link created by tunnel
>>> Linux could support this. Otherwise there may be some advanced, new or
>>> experimental protocols I don't know about.
>>>
>>> If you have large or complicated enough network the traffic could balance
>>> itself stochastically even with OSPF and BGP - data want to go the shortest
>> way
>>> and what is the shortest for one destination is not shortest for another.
>>>
>>> CL<
>>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 10:34:43PM -0400, kqj rocks wrote:
>>>> I know the ronja can be used as an ethernet based internet backbone. If
>> this is true will I be able to use them for an internet backhaul system to
>> hop data from ronja to ronja and increase speed of internet data transfer to
>> route internet data over a mesh network.  since the ronja can be used as an
>> internet backbone can it be used to act as a 10mbps backbone for an
>> ultra-high speed network where the internet speed of the wireless network is
>> 10mbps x number of ronjas plus the speed of the mesh network's  internet 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja

-- 
Jakub S?kora
email: kubajz na kbx.cz       <')
ICQ: 68976632               ( =-
mobil: +420 777 594 201      ''


From clock at twibright.com  Tue Sep  5 16:32:35 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2006 17:32:35 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] [r.snajdr@coramexport.cz: soucastky na ronju]
Message-ID: <20060905153235.GA16986@kestrel.twibright.com>

----- Forwarded message from Radim Snajdr <r.snajdr at coramexport.cz> -----

Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2006 17:28:19 +0200
From: Radim Snajdr <r.snajdr at coramexport.cz>
To: ronja at twibright.com
Subject: soucastky na ronju
User-Agent: KMail/1.9.1
Organization: CORAMEXPORT

ahoj,
mam doma dva "pytliky" soucastek na ronju, kterou urcte nebudu stavet (protoze 
mam obje ruky levy :-) Nevis o nekom kdo by je mohl upotrebit. Rad je zdarma 
nekumu kdo je vyuzije prenecham. Prijde mi skoda to vyhodit. 

Radim

----- End forwarded message -----


From clock at twibright.com  Thu Sep  7 14:49:33 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 15:49:33 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] A nice little house...
Message-ID: <20060907134933.GA13930@kestrel.twibright.com>

A nice little house with triple optical connectivity :)
http://images.twibright.com/tns/1ed0.html
http://images.twibright.com/tns/1ec4.html

Czech Republic, Prague, Smichov, YellowHill

CL<


From seligr at sh.cvut.cz  Thu Sep  7 16:54:52 2006
From: seligr at sh.cvut.cz (Petr Seliger)
Date: Thu,  7 Sep 2006 17:54:52 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] A nice little house...
In-Reply-To: <20060907134933.GA13930@kestrel.twibright.com>
References: <20060907134933.GA13930@kestrel.twibright.com>
Message-ID: <1157644492.450040cc08915@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>

Little v zadnem pripade, ten komin je cca 15m nad zemi.

> A nice little house with triple optical connectivity :)
> http://images.twibright.com/tns/1ed0.html
> http://images.twibright.com/tns/1ec4.html
> 
> Czech Republic, Prague, Smichov, YellowHill
> 
> CL<



From jirka.rozumek at atlas.cz  Fri Sep  8 17:21:00 2006
From: jirka.rozumek at atlas.cz (=?iso-8859-2?Q?Ji=F8=ED_Rozumek?=)
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 18:21:00 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Prodej optickeho spoje
Message-ID: <001a01c6d362$c62c8520$ac5c2093@maximus>

Focene jsou 2 linky: ta na komine cca 300m ta na tyci pod antenama 550m. V provozu uz neni ani jedna - jak jsem psal uz misto nich jsou 5GHz spoje.

> On Tue, Aug 15, 2006 at 06:44:28PM +0200, Ji?? Rozumek wrote:
> > Fotky jedne strany spoje a elektroniky jsou na http://ronja.xf.cz . Jedna se

> Kolik metru ma ta linka co jsou tam od ni fotky?

> CL<
> > o jednu z instalaci v Tupesich - v galerii jsou fotky z jine instalace. Jinak
> > todle byla posledni tupeska Ronja, vsechny ostatni uz jsou nahrazeny 5 GHz
> > spoji. Co se tyka prodeje tak na prodej budou asi vsecky, ale osobne
> > "vlastnim" jen jednu. Co se tyka ostatnich tak mam kontakt na cloveka co by
> > to mohl zprostredkovat.
> 
> > 
> > 
> > Jiri Rozumek
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ronja mailing list
> > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja

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From clock at twibright.com  Sat Sep  9 11:12:43 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2006 12:12:43 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Testpoints for Twister2
Message-ID: <20060909101242.GA13185@kestrel.twibright.com>

I created testpoints for Twister2. They are mentioned in the Testing
section of the Twister2 instructions.

CL<


From cd930 at centrum.cz  Sun Sep 10 13:37:34 2006
From: cd930 at centrum.cz (-=RYS=-)
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 14:37:34 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] sesty link v Zatci
Message-ID: <200609101437.12566@centrum.cz>

Ahoj Karle a dalsi.
Tak jsme postavili dalsi linku v Zatci. Jestli muzes, tak do fotogalerie instalaci pridej
fotky z : http://ok1mjo.zajsoft.net/all/photo/zatec/zatec_fso/mladeznicka-husova
Modifikovany model Ronja Tetrapolis:
- TX/RX 130mm sklenena cocka
- modifikovane vytapeni odporovym dratkem zevnitr na cocce
- LED F4000
- PoE, RSSI a LAN trafo (vse na zvlastnim tistaku) pridano k Twisteru (DPS) v plast krabici
- TX/RX elektronika, SMD DPS by Skontorp
- konce trubek a plast krabice maji konektory
- nestandartni mechanika
- vzdalenost 375m,? RSSI 3.37V / 3.48V
- slouzi to ISP:? http://www.ohremedia.cz
Martin? ?-=RYS=


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From clock at twibright.com  Mon Sep 11 07:12:32 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 08:12:32 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] sesty link v Zatci
In-Reply-To: <200609101437.12566@centrum.cz>
References: <200609101437.12566@centrum.cz>
Message-ID: <20060911061232.GA306@kestrel.twibright.com>

On Sun, Sep 10, 2006 at 02:37:34PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote:
> Ahoj Karle a dalsi.
> Tak jsme postavili dalsi linku v Zatci. Jestli muzes, tak do fotogalerie instalaci pridej
> fotky z :
> http://ok1mjo.zajsoft.net/all/photo/zatec/zatec_fso/mladeznicka-husova

Thanks, added.

CL<

> Modifikovany model Ronja Tetrapolis:
> - TX/RX 130mm sklenena cocka
> - modifikovane vytapeni odporovym dratkem zevnitr na cocce
> - LED F4000
> - PoE, RSSI a LAN trafo (vse na zvlastnim tistaku) pridano k Twisteru (DPS) v plast krabici
> - TX/RX elektronika, SMD DPS by Skontorp
> - konce trubek a plast krabice maji konektory
> - nestandartni mechanika
> - vzdalenost 375m,? RSSI 3.37V / 3.48V
> - slouzi to ISP:? http://www.ohremedia.cz
> Martin? ?-=RYS=
> 
> 

> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja



From cd930 at centrum.cz  Mon Sep 11 08:54:31 2006
From: cd930 at centrum.cz (-=RYS=-)
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 09:54:31 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] oprava seste linky
Message-ID: <200609110954.19519@centrum.cz>

Karle, mas tam malou chybu, ale pro severocechy markantni :)
V adresari:?? http://images.twibright.com/tns/1ed9.html? u prvniho obrazku mas spatny popis:
Na pozadi z leva: Doupov, Klinec, Medenec, elektrarny Tusimice, Prunerov 
Ma tam byt spravne:
Na pozadi zleva: Doupov, Klinovec, Medenec, elektrarny Tusimice, Prunerov 
Protoze Klinovec (1244mnm) je nejvyssi hora Krusnych hor.
Pokud by mi svitilo slunicko od zad (fotit rano), tak by byl videt mezi Klinovcem a Medencem nejvyssi kopec 
byvale NDR....Oberswisenthal.?? http://ok1mjo.zajsoft.net/all/photo/zatec/vytahovka%202%20-%2017_9_2002.jpg
V podstate v soucasne dobe zapada slunce presne za Klinovcem, takze telekomunikacni vez se opticky zvetsi...moc peknej snimek by to byl.....
No?a pokud vse vyjde jak ma, tak dalsi linka jde do Podboran a Lubence.


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From clock at twibright.com  Tue Sep 12 06:01:42 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 07:01:42 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] oprava seste linky
In-Reply-To: <200609110954.19519@centrum.cz>
References: <200609110954.19519@centrum.cz>
Message-ID: <20060912050142.GA23808@kestrel.twibright.com>

On Mon, Sep 11, 2006 at 09:54:31AM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote:
> Karle, mas tam malou chybu, ale pro severocechy markantni :)
> V adresari:?? http://images.twibright.com/tns/1ed9.html? u prvniho obrazku mas spatny popis:
> Na pozadi z leva: Doupov, Klinec, Medenec, elektrarny Tusimice, Prunerov 
> Ma tam byt spravne:
> Na pozadi zleva: Doupov, Klinovec, Medenec, elektrarny Tusimice, Prunerov 

Fixed...

CL<
> Protoze Klinovec (1244mnm) je nejvyssi hora Krusnych hor.
> Pokud by mi svitilo slunicko od zad (fotit rano), tak by byl videt mezi Klinovcem a Medencem nejvyssi kopec 
> byvale NDR....Oberswisenthal.??
http://ok1mjo.zajsoft.net/all/photo/zatec/vytahovka%202%20-%2017_9_2002.jpg

> V podstate v soucasne dobe zapada slunce presne za Klinovcem, takze telekomunikacni vez se opticky zvetsi...moc peknej snimek by to byl.....
> No?a pokud vse vyjde jak ma, tak dalsi linka jde do Podboran a Lubence.
> 
> 

> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja



From clock at twibright.com  Tue Sep 12 06:50:25 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 07:50:25 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Prodej optickeho spoje
In-Reply-To: <001a01c6d362$c62c8520$ac5c2093@maximus>
References: <001a01c6d362$c62c8520$ac5c2093@maximus>
Message-ID: <20060912055025.GA8036@kestrel.twibright.com>

On Fri, Sep 08, 2006 at 06:21:00PM +0200, Ji?? Rozumek wrote:
> Focene jsou 2 linky: ta na komine cca 300m ta na tyci pod antenama 550m. V provozu uz neni ani jedna - jak jsem psal uz misto nich jsou 5GHz spoje.

Diky, pridano do galerie.

CL<
> 
> > On Tue, Aug 15, 2006 at 06:44:28PM +0200, Ji?? Rozumek wrote:
> > > Fotky jedne strany spoje a elektroniky jsou na http://ronja.xf.cz . Jedna se
> 
> > Kolik metru ma ta linka co jsou tam od ni fotky?
> 
> > CL<
> > > o jednu z instalaci v Tupesich - v galerii jsou fotky z jine instalace. Jinak
> > > todle byla posledni tupeska Ronja, vsechny ostatni uz jsou nahrazeny 5 GHz
> > > spoji. Co se tyka prodeje tak na prodej budou asi vsecky, ale osobne
> > > "vlastnim" jen jednu. Co se tyka ostatnich tak mam kontakt na cloveka co by
> > > to mohl zprostredkovat.
> > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Jiri Rozumek
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Ronja mailing list
> > > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 

> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja



From bartosz_kolodziejczak at o2.pl  Tue Sep 12 13:01:56 2006
From: bartosz_kolodziejczak at o2.pl (Bartosz Kolodziejczak)
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 14:01:56 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] KjS boards for sale
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1158058801.14935.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
References: <mailman.1.1158058801.14935.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
Message-ID: <4506A1B4.1090809@o2.pl>

Hi everybody,

I have for sale never used 4 rx (smd version) & 4 tx (discrete) boards 
done according to KjS hints on his PCB layouts.
All of them have elements already soldered excluding:
1) IC's
2) chinch connectors
3) HPWT diodes,
4) Pin photodiodes,
5) BF988.

There are precision sockets soldered in place where ICs should be.

If you wanna buy them, just give me an offer.
All the boards work for sure, because I made about 20 of each. I want to 
sell those, because I probably won't use them never.

Kind regards
Crush


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From jkl at jkl.darktech.org  Tue Sep 12 22:39:45 2006
From: jkl at jkl.darktech.org (Jan Kleisner)
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 23:39:45 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] jklamer link Prague 200m
In-Reply-To: <20060903100612.GA12874@kestrel.twibright.com>
References: <20060903100612.GA12874@kestrel.twibright.com>
Message-ID: <45072921.6000301@jkl.darktech.org>

Karel Kulhavy wrote:
> Does anyone have an idea where this link is in Prague?
> http://images.twibright.com/tns/ceb.html
> 
Yep.
It's mine. Prague 4 Michle.

	-jkl-



From clock at twibright.com  Wed Sep 13 06:55:15 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 07:55:15 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] jklamer link Prague 200m
In-Reply-To: <45072921.6000301@jkl.darktech.org>
References: <20060903100612.GA12874@kestrel.twibright.com>
	<45072921.6000301@jkl.darktech.org>
Message-ID: <20060913055515.GB8952@kestrel.twibright.com>

On Tue, Sep 12, 2006 at 11:39:45PM +0200, Jan Kleisner wrote:
> Karel Kulhavy wrote:
> > Does anyone have an idea where this link is in Prague?
> > http://images.twibright.com/tns/ceb.html
> > 
> Yep.
> It's mine. Prague 4 Michle.

Hehe, I looked around on the czfree.map in the michle area and didn't
find your link - maybe it's not there? But I found lazna's 5 links.
He says on his homepage he uses Ronja so I dropped him an e-mail :)

CL<
> 
> 	-jkl-
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From bartosz_kolodziejczak at o2.pl  Wed Sep 13 10:03:14 2006
From: bartosz_kolodziejczak at o2.pl (Bartosz Kolodziejczak)
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 11:03:14 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] KjS boards for sale (Bartosz Kolodziejczak)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1115.1158062561.27014.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
References: <mailman.1115.1158062561.27014.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
Message-ID: <4507C952.80206@o2.pl>

Hi,

All the boards have been sold, and are no longer available.


Best regards
Crush


ronja-request at lists.pointless.net napisa?(a):
> Send Ronja mailing list submissions to
> 	ronja at lists.pointless.net
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> 	http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> 	ronja-request at lists.pointless.net
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> 	ronja-owner at lists.pointless.net
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Ronja digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1.  KjS boards for sale (Bartosz Kolodziejczak)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 14:01:56 +0200
> From: Bartosz Kolodziejczak <bartosz_kolodziejczak at o2.pl>
> Subject: [Ronja] KjS boards for sale
> To: ronja at lists.pointless.net
> Message-ID: <4506A1B4.1090809 at o2.pl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Hi everybody,
>
> I have for sale never used 4 rx (smd version) & 4 tx (discrete) boards 
> done according to KjS hints on his PCB layouts.
> All of them have elements already soldered excluding:
> 1) IC's
> 2) chinch connectors
> 3) HPWT diodes,
> 4) Pin photodiodes,
> 5) BF988.
>
> There are precision sockets soldered in place where ICs should be.
>
> If you wanna buy them, just give me an offer.
> All the boards work for sure, because I made about 20 of each. I want to 
> sell those, because I probably won't use them never.
>
> Kind regards
> Crush
>
>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>
>
> End of Ronja Digest, Vol 41, Issue 12
> *************************************
>
>
>   


From jkl at jkl.darktech.org  Wed Sep 13 17:10:15 2006
From: jkl at jkl.darktech.org (Jan Kleisner)
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 18:10:15 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] jklamer link Prague 200m
In-Reply-To: <20060913055515.GB8952@kestrel.twibright.com>
References: <20060903100612.GA12874@kestrel.twibright.com>	<45072921.6000301@jkl.darktech.org>
	<20060913055515.GB8952@kestrel.twibright.com>
Message-ID: <45082D67.4040807@jkl.darktech.org>

Karel Kulhavy wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 12, 2006 at 11:39:45PM +0200, Jan Kleisner wrote:
> 
>>Karel Kulhavy wrote:
>>
>>>Does anyone have an idea where this link is in Prague?
>>>http://images.twibright.com/tns/ceb.html
>>>
>>
>>Yep.
>>It's mine. Prague 4 Michle.
> 
> 
> Hehe, I looked around on the czfree.map in the michle area and didn't
> find your link - maybe it's not there? But I found lazna's 5 links.
> He says on his homepage he uses Ronja so I dropped him an e-mail :)

I am very close to the Heaven node (ID 673) in czfree, but actualy my 
wan is private and we are not connected to czfree at all.

Our Ronja is running flawless from 2003. I have only changed AUI 
interfaces  for Twister ones to improve portability.

 From 2004 i am in process of building second Ronja link which will be 
eventualy used to connect to the czfree. Its shame that i have no free 
time to complete it, coz building Ronja was fun.


From clock at twibright.com  Wed Sep 13 17:39:28 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 18:39:28 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] jklamer link Prague 200m
In-Reply-To: <45082D67.4040807@jkl.darktech.org>
References: <20060903100612.GA12874@kestrel.twibright.com>
	<45072921.6000301@jkl.darktech.org>
	<20060913055515.GB8952@kestrel.twibright.com>
	<45082D67.4040807@jkl.darktech.org>
Message-ID: <20060913163928.GA12562@kestrel.twibright.com>

On Wed, Sep 13, 2006 at 06:10:15PM +0200, Jan Kleisner wrote:
> Karel Kulhavy wrote:
> > On Tue, Sep 12, 2006 at 11:39:45PM +0200, Jan Kleisner wrote:
> > 
> >>Karel Kulhavy wrote:
> >>
> >>>Does anyone have an idea where this link is in Prague?
> >>>http://images.twibright.com/tns/ceb.html
> >>>
> >>
> >>Yep.
> >>It's mine. Prague 4 Michle.
> > 
> > 
> > Hehe, I looked around on the czfree.map in the michle area and didn't
> > find your link - maybe it's not there? But I found lazna's 5 links.
> > He says on his homepage he uses Ronja so I dropped him an e-mail :)
> 
> I am very close to the Heaven node (ID 673) in czfree, but actualy my 
> wan is private and we are not connected to czfree at all.
> 
> Our Ronja is running flawless from 2003. I have only changed AUI 
> interfaces  for Twister ones to improve portability.
> 
>  From 2004 i am in process of building second Ronja link which will be 
> eventualy used to connect to the czfree. Its shame that i have no free 
> time to complete it, coz building Ronja was fun.

Why exactly was it fun?

CL<
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From cibula at gamepub.sk  Thu Sep 14 22:46:09 2006
From: cibula at gamepub.sk (Cibula)
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 23:46:09 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Problem Twister
Message-ID: <795ac37eba2f4f4241256f6fe5c05d96@gamepub.sk>

Mam taky drobny problem.Nedavno som dokoncil 2x&nbsp;ronja twister a chcel som to vyskusat.Najprv som twister zapojil do nic (10Mb FD), spojil tx a rx na twistri. Pustil ping a etherealom sniffol.Vsetko ok.Zapojil som dva twistre - rx na tx a opacne. Vsetko ide normalne, ked blika na jednom twistri rx tak na druhom tx atd.Avsak ked to zapojim (do pc/switchu, s/bez autoneg., 10Mb FD/HD, karty&nbsp;s chipom SiS aj Realtek),&nbsp;tak opacna strana sa neda opingat.Normalne sa zda ze tade tecu dake data, rx/tx mierne&nbsp;sem tam bliknu,&nbsp;NIC to detekuje a ked ma auto hodi 10Mb HD len tie data sa tade nedaju pretlacit.Jedine co som zmenil bolo to, ze miesto 74HC32 som dal 74HCT32 pac v nemenovanom obchode to nemali 1,5 mesiaca,&nbsp;v ostatnych vobec&nbsp;a viac som cakat uz nechcel.Je mozne, ze tato zmena sposobuje toto divne chovanie? Ak nie kde by mohla byt chyba?Dakujem.
------------- dal?? ??st ---------------
HTML p??loha byla odstran?na...
URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20060914/bff6039c/attachment.html 

From clock at twibright.com  Fri Sep 15 01:51:05 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 02:51:05 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Problem Twister
In-Reply-To: <795ac37eba2f4f4241256f6fe5c05d96@gamepub.sk>
References: <795ac37eba2f4f4241256f6fe5c05d96@gamepub.sk>
Message-ID: <20060915005105.GA16277@kestrel.twibright.com>

On Thu, Sep 14, 2006 at 11:46:09PM +0200, Cibula wrote:
> Mam taky drobny problem.Nedavno som dokoncil 2x&nbsp;ronja twister a chcel
> som to vyskusat.Najprv som twister zapojil do nic (10Mb FD), spojil tx a rx
> na twistri. Pustil ping a etherealom sniffol.Vsetko ok.Zapojil som dva
> twistre - rx na tx a opacne. Vsetko ide normalne, ked blika na jednom twistri
> rx tak na druhom tx atd.Avsak ked to zapojim (do pc/switchu, s/bez autoneg.,
> 10Mb FD/HD, karty&nbsp;s chipom SiS aj Realtek),&nbsp;tak opacna strana sa
> neda opingat.Normalne sa zda ze tade tecu dake data, rx/tx mierne&nbsp;sem
> tam bliknu,&nbsp;NIC to detekuje a ked ma auto hodi 10Mb HD len tie data sa
> tade nedaju pretlacit.Jedine co som zmenil bolo to, ze miesto 74HC32 som dal
> 74HCT32 pac v nemenovanom obchode to nemali 1,5 mesiaca,&nbsp;v ostatnych

74HCT32 shouldn't make it nonfunctional. It can be caused by the cables
you are using to interconnect the Twisters.

CL<
> vobec&nbsp;a viac som cakat uz nechcel.Je mozne, ze tato zmena sposobuje toto
> divne chovanie? Ak nie kde by mohla byt chyba?Dakujem.

> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja



From cibula at gamepub.sk  Fri Sep 15 12:53:27 2006
From: cibula at gamepub.sk (Cibula)
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 13:53:27 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Problem Twister
Message-ID: <d4d66a4576dd7a4525731ffada8cbbde@gamepub.sk>

I dont know, but i tried many of cable leghts (from 5cm to 2 m)&nbsp;and types (coax, two wire cable etc.) but it still doesnt work.And as I have&nbsp;sayed, the single twister packetloss of&nbsp;both twisters&nbsp;is&nbsp;0.And another thing.The twisters&nbsp;arent in metal boxes, so maybe its caused by EMI or something. And i forgot to mention that the U68 (7805) is soldered directly on the PCB and mounted to the heatsink.

--------- Original Message --------From: Karel Kulhavy To: Twibright Ronja Subject: Re: [Ronja] Problem TwisterDate: 09/15/2006 02:51On Thu, Sep 14, 2006 at 11:46:09PM +0200, Cibula wrote:&gt; Mam taky drobny problem.Nedavno som dokoncil 2x&amp;nbsp;ronja twister a chcel&gt; som to vyskusat.Najprv som twister zapojil do nic (10Mb FD), spojil tx a rx&gt; na twistri. Pustil ping a etherealom sniffol.Vsetko ok.Zapojil som dva&gt; twistre - rx na tx a opacne. Vsetko ide normalne, ked blika na jednom twistri&gt; rx tak na druhom tx atd.Avsak ked to zapojim (do pc/switchu, s/bez autoneg.,&gt; 10Mb FD/HD, karty&amp;nbsp;s chipom SiS aj Realtek),&amp;nbsp;tak opacna strana sa&gt; neda opingat.Normalne sa zda ze tade tecu dake data, rx/tx mierne&amp;nbsp;sem&gt; tam bliknu,&amp;nbsp;NIC to detekuje a ked ma auto hodi 10Mb HD len tie data sa&gt; tade nedaju pretlacit.Jedine co som zmenil bolo to, ze miesto 74HC32 som dal&gt; 74HCT32 pac v nemenovanom obchode to nemali 1,5 mesiaca,&amp;nbsp;v ostatnych74HCT32 shouldn\'t make it nonfunctional. It can be caused by the cablesyou are using to interconnect the Twisters.CL&lt;&gt; vobec&amp;nbsp;a viac som cakat uz nechcel.Je mozne, ze tato zmena sposobuje toto&gt; divne chovanie? Ak nie kde by mohla byt chyba?Dakujem.&gt; _______________________________________________&gt; Ronja mailing list&gt; Ronja na lists.pointless.net&gt; http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja. 
------------- dal?? ??st ---------------
HTML p??loha byla odstran?na...
URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20060915/59e36150/attachment.html 

From clock at twibright.com  Fri Sep 15 13:47:53 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 14:47:53 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Problem Twister
In-Reply-To: <d4d66a4576dd7a4525731ffada8cbbde@gamepub.sk>
References: <d4d66a4576dd7a4525731ffada8cbbde@gamepub.sk>
Message-ID: <20060915124752.GA2304@kestrel.twibright.com>

On Fri, Sep 15, 2006 at 01:53:27PM +0200, Cibula wrote:
> I dont know, but i tried many of cable leghts (from 5cm to 2 m)&nbsp;and
> types (coax, two wire cable etc.) but it still doesnt work.And as I
> have&nbsp;sayed, the single twister packetloss of&nbsp;both
> twisters&nbsp;is&nbsp;0.And another thing.The twisters&nbsp;arent in metal
> boxes, so maybe its caused by EMI or something. And i forgot to mention that
> the U68 (7805) is soldered directly on the PCB and mounted to the heatsink.

Isn't the 7805 turned around?

Try it with the coaxial cables as described in the Ronja testing.

CL<
> 
> --------- Original Message --------From: Karel Kulhavy To: Twibright Ronja Subject: Re: [Ronja] Problem TwisterDate: 09/15/2006 02:51On Thu, Sep 14, 2006 at 11:46:09PM +0200, Cibula wrote:&gt; Mam taky drobny problem.Nedavno som dokoncil 2x&amp;nbsp;ronja twister a chcel&gt; som to vyskusat.Najprv som twister zapojil do nic (10Mb FD), spojil tx a rx&gt; na twistri. Pustil ping a etherealom sniffol.Vsetko ok.Zapojil som dva&gt; twistre - rx na tx a opacne. Vsetko ide normalne, ked blika na jednom twistri&gt; rx tak na druhom tx atd.Avsak ked to zapojim (do pc/switchu, s/bez autoneg.,&gt; 10Mb FD/HD, karty&amp;nbsp;s chipom SiS aj Realtek),&amp;nbsp;tak opacna strana sa&gt; neda opingat.Normalne sa zda ze tade tecu dake data, rx/tx mierne&amp;nbsp;sem&gt; tam bliknu,&amp;nbsp;NIC to detekuje a ked ma auto hodi 10Mb HD len tie data sa&gt; tade nedaju pretlacit.Jedine co som zmenil bolo to, ze miesto 74HC32 som dal&gt; 74HCT32 pac v nemenovanom obchode to nemali 1,5 mesiaca,&amp;nbsp;v ostatnych74HCT32 shouldn\'t make it nonfunctional. It can be caused by the cablesyou are using to interconnect the Twisters.CL&lt;&gt; vobec&amp;nbsp;a viac som cakat uz nechcel.Je mozne, ze tato zmena sposobuje toto&gt; divne chovanie? Ak nie kde by mohla byt chyba?Dakujem.&gt; _______________________________________________&gt; Ronja mailing list&gt; Ronja at lists.pointless.net&gt; http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja. 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja



From cibula at gamepub.sk  Fri Sep 15 14:58:17 2006
From: cibula at gamepub.sk (Cibula)
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 15:58:17 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Problem Twister [Solved]
Message-ID: <33fa5bd157596cd34134779eb38a79ca@gamepub.sk>

Yep, it really helps with that wires&nbsp;:).It looks like that&nbsp;that wire&nbsp;have to by coax and shielding have to be connected somewhere :) - before i tried without shielding grounded.1,12Mb/s :).And one more question. Is it possible to connect TP Transformer directly, without changing any&nbsp;values of parts in twister?Thx a lot.btw, 2 pics of twister -&nbsp;http://serenity.gamepub.sk/ronja/

--------- Original Message --------From: Karel Kulhavy To: Twibright Ronja Subject: Re: [Ronja] Problem TwisterDate: 09/15/2006 14:47On Fri, Sep 15, 2006 at 01:53:27PM +0200, Cibula wrote:&gt; I dont know, but i tried many of cable leghts (from 5cm to 2 m)&amp;nbsp;and&gt; types (coax, two wire cable etc.) but it still doesnt work.And as I&gt; have&amp;nbsp;sayed, the single twister packetloss of&amp;nbsp;both&gt; twisters&amp;nbsp;is&amp;nbsp;0.And another thing.The twisters&amp;nbsp;arent in metal&gt; boxes, so maybe its caused by EMI or something. And i forgot to mention that&gt; the U68 (7805) is soldered directly on the PCB and mounted to the heatsink.Isn\'t the 7805 turned around?Try it with the coaxial cables as described in the Ronja testing.CL&lt;&gt; &gt; --------- Original Message --------From: Karel Kulhavy To: Twibright Ronja Subject: Re: [Ronja] Problem TwisterDate: 09/15/2006 02:51On Thu, Sep 14, 2006 at 11:46:09PM +0200, Cibula wrote:&amp;gt; Mam taky drobny problem.Nedavno som dokoncil 2x&amp;amp;nbsp;ronja twister a chcel&amp;gt; som to vyskusat.Najprv som twister zapojil do nic (10Mb FD), spojil tx a rx&amp;gt; na twistri. Pustil ping a etherealom sniffol.Vsetko ok.Zapojil som dva&amp;gt; twistre - rx na tx a opacne. Vsetko ide normalne, ked blika na jednom twistri&amp;gt; rx tak na druhom tx atd.Avsak ked to zapojim (do pc/switchu, s/bez autoneg.,&amp;gt; 10Mb FD/HD, karty&amp;amp;nbsp;s chipom SiS aj Realtek),&amp;amp;nbsp;tak opacna strana sa&amp;gt; neda opingat.Normalne sa zda ze tade tecu dake data, rx/tx mierne&amp;amp;nbsp;sem&amp;gt; tam bliknu,&amp;amp;nbsp;NIC to detekuje a ked ma auto hodi 10Mb HD len tie data sa&amp;gt; tade nedaju pretlacit.Jedine co som zmenil bolo to, ze miesto 74HC32 som dal&amp;gt; 74HCT32 pac v nemenovanom obchode to nemali 1,5 mesiaca,&amp;amp;nbsp;v ostatnych74HCT32 shouldn\\\'t make it nonfunctional. It can be caused by the cablesyou are using to interconnect the Twisters.CL&amp;lt;&amp;gt; vobec&amp;amp;nbsp;a viac som cakat uz nechcel.Je mozne, ze tato zmena sposobuje toto&amp;gt; divne chovanie? Ak nie kde by mohla byt chyba?Dakujem.&amp;gt; _______________________________________________&amp;gt; Ronja mailing list&amp;gt; Ronja na lists.pointless.net&amp;gt; http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja. &gt; _______________________________________________&gt; Ronja mailing list&gt; Ronja na lists.pointless.net&gt; http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja. 
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From clock at twibright.com  Fri Sep 15 15:15:37 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 16:15:37 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Problem Twister [Solved]
In-Reply-To: <33fa5bd157596cd34134779eb38a79ca@gamepub.sk>
References: <33fa5bd157596cd34134779eb38a79ca@gamepub.sk>
Message-ID: <20060915141537.GA12212@kestrel.twibright.com>

On Fri, Sep 15, 2006 at 03:58:17PM +0200, Cibula wrote:
> Yep, it really helps with that wires&nbsp;:).It looks like that&nbsp;that
> wire&nbsp;have to by coax and shielding have to be connected somewhere :) -
> before i tried without shielding grounded.1,12Mb/s :).And one more question.
> Is it possible to connect TP Transformer directly, without changing
> any&nbsp;values of parts in twister?Thx a lot.btw, 2 pics of twister
> -&nbsp;http://serenity.gamepub.sk/ronja/

I don't know, Twister was designed to run without transformer. You can do
probably something but it will be more or less crippled. But it may run without
packetloss. Why do you need a transformer?

CL<


From cibula at gamepub.sk  Fri Sep 15 15:45:59 2006
From: cibula at gamepub.sk (Cibula)
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 16:45:59 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Problem Twister [Solved]
Message-ID: <065ccd8011487a1385c86e6e24cb85e4@gamepub.sk>

I&nbsp;just wanna&nbsp;try&nbsp;longer TP cable (50m or so), coz it seems to me, that&nbsp;drag one tp cable&nbsp;to the roof is really simpler than two coaxes.But as i think about it, its really for nothing,&nbsp;because&nbsp;I have&nbsp;one free&nbsp;rj45 on the roof :). But what about the second...? :DAnd about that pics, of course you can :).

--------- Original Message --------From: Karel Kulhavy To: Twibright Ronja Subject: Re: [Ronja] Problem Twister [Solved]Date: 09/15/2006 16:15On Fri, Sep 15, 2006 at 03:58:17PM +0200, Cibula wrote:&gt; Yep, it really helps with that wires&amp;nbsp;:).It looks like that&amp;nbsp;that&gt; wire&amp;nbsp;have to by coax and shielding have to be connected somewhere :) -&gt; before i tried without shielding grounded.1,12Mb/s :).And one more question.&gt; Is it possible to connect TP Transformer directly, without changing&gt; any&amp;nbsp;values of parts in twister?Thx a lot.btw, 2 pics of twister&gt; -&amp;nbsp;http://serenity.gamepub.sk/ronja/I don\'t know, Twister was designed to run without transformer. You can doprobably something but it will be more or less crippled. But it may run withoutpacketloss. Why do you need a transformer?CL&lt;. 
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From petr.cipis at tiscali.cz  Tue Sep 19 20:12:57 2006
From: petr.cipis at tiscali.cz (Cipis)
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 21:12:57 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] rssi a PMR radiostanice
Message-ID: <003001c6dc1f$9de7f840$5046a8c0@cipis.net>

Nazdar,
tak schvalne, kolik komu jaka radiostanice prida signalu na rssi?
Me to pri mereni z 200mV udelalo az 500mV a ronja mirila do oblak.
Stanici mam HOFFER SP3380, pri trvalem vysilani to neustale zvetsovalo RSSI.

Cipis 



From ladmanj at volny.cz  Tue Sep 19 20:43:37 2006
From: ladmanj at volny.cz (Jakub Ladman)
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 21:43:37 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] rssi a PMR radiostanice
In-Reply-To: <003001c6dc1f$9de7f840$5046a8c0@cipis.net>
References: <003001c6dc1f$9de7f840$5046a8c0@cipis.net>
Message-ID: <200609192143.37769.ladmanj@volny.cz>

Dne ?ter? 19 z??? 2006 21:12 Cipis napsal(a):
> Nazdar,
> tak schvalne, kolik komu jaka radiostanice prida signalu na rssi?
> Me to pri mereni z 200mV udelalo az 500mV a ronja mirila do oblak.
> Stanici mam HOFFER SP3380, pri trvalem vysilani to neustale zvetsovalo
> RSSI.

Nam taky pridava a dost znacne nas to sere.
Jakub Ladman

>
> Cipis
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From daniel.strnad at tiscali.cz  Tue Sep 19 23:07:39 2006
From: daniel.strnad at tiscali.cz (Daniel Strnad)
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 22:07:39 -0000
Subject: [Ronja] rssi a PMR radiostanice
In-Reply-To: <200609192143.37769.ladmanj@volny.cz>
References: <003001c6dc1f$9de7f840$5046a8c0@cipis.net>
	<200609192143.37769.ladmanj@volny.cz>
Message-ID: <op.tf5bq1bin6qjls@daman>

Jojo, taky zname :( Dokonce me to litalo i o 150mV, kdyz jsem byl 5 m od  
ronji(dal jsem jit nemohl, to uz bylo na okraji strisky) a kolega na druhe  
strane se snazil ladit vysilac.
DS

On Tue, 19 Sep 2006 19:43:37 -0000, Jakub Ladman <ladmanj na volny.cz> wrote:

> Dne ?ter? 19 z??? 2006 21:12 Cipis napsal(a):
>> Nazdar,
>> tak schvalne, kolik komu jaka radiostanice prida signalu na rssi?
>> Me to pri mereni z 200mV udelalo az 500mV a ronja mirila do oblak.
>> Stanici mam HOFFER SP3380, pri trvalem vysilani to neustale zvetsovalo
>> RSSI.
>
> Nam taky pridava a dost znacne nas to sere.
> Jakub Ladman
>
>>
>> Cipis
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ronja mailing list
>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From schum at seznam.cz  Wed Sep 20 06:51:22 2006
From: schum at seznam.cz (Schumann Miroslav)
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 07:51:22 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] rssi a PMR radiostanice
In-Reply-To: <op.tf5bq1bin6qjls@daman>
References: <003001c6dc1f$9de7f840$5046a8c0@cipis.net>	<200609192143.37769.ladmanj@volny.cz>
	<op.tf5bq1bin6qjls@daman>
Message-ID: <4510D6DA.1030904@seznam.cz>

Daniel Strnad napsal(a):
> Jojo, taky zname :( Dokonce me to litalo i o 150mV, kdyz jsem byl 5 m od  
> ronji(dal jsem jit nemohl, to uz bylo na okraji strisky) a kolega na druhe  
> strane se snazil ladit vysilac.
> DS
>
> On Tue, 19 Sep 2006 19:43:37 -0000, Jakub Ladman <ladmanj na volny.cz> wrote:
>
>   
>> Dne ?ter? 19 z??? 2006 21:12 Cipis napsal(a):
>>     
>>> Nazdar,
>>> tak schvalne, kolik komu jaka radiostanice prida signalu na rssi?
>>> Me to pri mereni z 200mV udelalo az 500mV a ronja mirila do oblak.
>>> Stanici mam HOFFER SP3380, pri trvalem vysilani to neustale zvetsovalo
>>> RSSI.
>>>       
>> Nam taky pridava a dost znacne nas to sere.
>> Jakub Ladman
>>
>>     
>>> Cipis
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Ronja mailing list
>>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
>>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>>>       
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ronja mailing list
>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>>     
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>   
Muzu take potvrdit,

Schum


From clock at twibright.com  Wed Sep 20 08:22:39 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 09:22:39 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] rssi a PMR radiostanice
In-Reply-To: <200609192143.37769.ladmanj@volny.cz>
References: <003001c6dc1f$9de7f840$5046a8c0@cipis.net>
	<200609192143.37769.ladmanj@volny.cz>
Message-ID: <20060920072239.GA19740@kestrel.twibright.com>

On Tue, Sep 19, 2006 at 09:43:37PM +0200, Jakub Ladman wrote:
> Dne ?ter? 19 z??? 2006 21:12 Cipis napsal(a):
> > Nazdar,
> > tak schvalne, kolik komu jaka radiostanice prida signalu na rssi?
> > Me to pri mereni z 200mV udelalo az 500mV a ronja mirila do oblak.
> > Stanici mam HOFFER SP3380, pri trvalem vysilani to neustale zvetsovalo
> > RSSI.
> 
> Nam taky pridava a dost znacne nas to sere.

Koukam ze ten krap RX je taky uz zralej na redesign.

CL<
> Jakub Ladman
> 
> >
> > Cipis
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ronja mailing list
> > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From clock at twibright.com  Wed Sep 20 08:49:08 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 09:49:08 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] rssi a PMR radiostanice
In-Reply-To: <003001c6dc1f$9de7f840$5046a8c0@cipis.net>
References: <003001c6dc1f$9de7f840$5046a8c0@cipis.net>
Message-ID: <20060920074908.GA32630@kestrel.twibright.com>

On Tue, Sep 19, 2006 at 09:12:57PM +0200, Cipis wrote:
> Nazdar,
> tak schvalne, kolik komu jaka radiostanice prida signalu na rssi?
> Me to pri mereni z 200mV udelalo az 500mV a ronja mirila do oblak.
> Stanici mam HOFFER SP3380, pri trvalem vysilani to neustale zvetsovalo RSSI.

Jakej vykon ma ta radiostanice?

CL<
> 
> Cipis 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From cd930 at centrum.cz  Wed Sep 20 09:19:23 2006
From: cd930 at centrum.cz (-=RYS=-)
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 10:19:23 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] rssi a PMR radiostanice
In-Reply-To: <20060920074908.GA32630@kestrel.twibright.com>
References: 003001c6dc1f$9de7f840$5046a8c0@cipis.net>
	<003001c6dc1f$9de7f840$5046a8c0@cipis.net>
	<20060920074908.GA32630@kestrel.twibright.com>
Message-ID: <200609201019.3868@centrum.cz>

Dle? VO:? http://www.ctu.cz/1/download/Opatreni%20obecne%20povahy/VO_R_03_07_2005_16.pdf
a drive? GL - 3/R/2000 je povolen maximalni vykon (je povolena pouze integrovana antena, nesmi byt odnimatelna)
500mW ERP. Kdyz jsem par "hracek" z TESCO premeroval, tak PA mel okolo 170-200mW.
Ale ted si predstav tyto modelove situace:
1) Firma sidli ve stejnem baraku jako je instalace Ronji a na strese ma zakladnovou antenu a do ni muze jit i 25W PA v pasmu 70cm.
2) Radioamater sidli ve stejnem baraku jako je instalae Ronji a na strese ma zakladnovou antenu a do ni muze jit i 1500W PA v pasmu 70cm.
3) Eurotel ma ve stejnem baraku zakladnovou stanici CDMA 450 a vykon do anten muze byt az 25W PA.
4) Existuje VO: http://www.ctu.cz/1/download/Opatreni%20obecne%20povahy/VO_R_16_08_2005_28.pdf
??? drive GL - 16/R/2000, ktera povoluje rucni radiostanice o vykonu az 5W PA.
5) Nekdo muze mit na strese venkovni bezdratovou cast meteostanice, ktera prenasi udaje do zakladnove casti
??? meteostanice na kmitoctu 433.9xx MHz.
6) Nekdo, kdo montuje Ronju, ma v kapse bezdratove ovladani od zamku/alarmu v aute a zrovne ve chvili se oprel
??? o tlacitko vysilani a 0.05mW PA na 433.922 (Skoda) muze zkreslit mereni.
Jak odstranit tento problem? Musi se provest dve veci zaroven:
1) zmena schematu/navrhu RX
2) misto klasickych (levnych) mutlimetru si kupte a: lepsi multimetry...treba Metex? rady 3xxx nebo b: rucickovy Avomet, protoze "rucickove" meraky nejsou nachylne na VF zareni....takze prohrabte sklepy a najdete stare ruckove
merici pristroje
Martin -=RYS=-


______________________________________________________________
> Od: clock na twibright.com
> Komu: Twibright Ronja <ronja na lists.pointless.net>
> Datum: 20.09.2006 09:49
> P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] rssi a PMR radiostanice
>
>On Tue, Sep 19, 2006 at 09:12:57PM +0200, Cipis wrote:
>> Nazdar,
>> tak schvalne, kolik komu jaka radiostanice prida signalu na rssi?
>> Me to pri mereni z 200mV udelalo az 500mV a ronja mirila do oblak.
>> Stanici mam HOFFER SP3380, pri trvalem vysilani to neustale zvetsovalo RSSI.
>
>Jakej vykon ma ta radiostanice?
>
>CL<
>> 
>> Cipis 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ronja mailing list
>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>
>_______________________________________________
>Ronja mailing list
>Ronja na lists.pointless.net
>http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 


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URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20060920/f98ea785/attachment.html 

From clock at twibright.com  Wed Sep 20 14:54:13 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 15:54:13 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] rssi a PMR radiostanice
In-Reply-To: <200609201019.3868@centrum.cz>
References: <003001c6dc1f$9de7f840$5046a8c0@cipis.net>
	<20060920074908.GA32630@kestrel.twibright.com>
	<200609201019.3868@centrum.cz>
Message-ID: <20060920135413.GA687@kestrel.twibright.com>

On Wed, Sep 20, 2006 at 10:19:23AM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote:
> Dle? VO:? http://www.ctu.cz/1/download/Opatreni%20obecne%20povahy/VO_R_03_07_2005_16.pdf
> a drive? GL - 3/R/2000 je povolen maximalni vykon (je povolena pouze integrovana antena, nesmi byt odnimatelna)
> 500mW ERP. Kdyz jsem par "hracek" z TESCO premeroval, tak PA mel okolo 170-200mW.
> Ale ted si predstav tyto modelove situace:
> 1) Firma sidli ve stejnem baraku jako je instalace Ronji a na strese ma zakladnovou antenu a do ni muze jit i 25W PA v pasmu 70cm.
> 2) Radioamater sidli ve stejnem baraku jako je instalae Ronji a na strese ma zakladnovou antenu a do ni muze jit i 1500W PA v pasmu 70cm.
> 3) Eurotel ma ve stejnem baraku zakladnovou stanici CDMA 450 a vykon do anten muze byt az 25W PA.
> 4) Existuje VO: http://www.ctu.cz/1/download/Opatreni%20obecne%20povahy/VO_R_16_08_2005_28.pdf
> ??? drive GL - 16/R/2000, ktera povoluje rucni radiostanice o vykonu az 5W PA.
> 5) Nekdo muze mit na strese venkovni bezdratovou cast meteostanice, ktera prenasi udaje do zakladnove casti
> ??? meteostanice na kmitoctu 433.9xx MHz.
> 6) Nekdo, kdo montuje Ronju, ma v kapse bezdratove ovladani od zamku/alarmu v aute a zrovne ve chvili se oprel
> ??? o tlacitko vysilani a 0.05mW PA na 433.922 (Skoda) muze zkreslit mereni.
> Jak odstranit tento problem? Musi se provest dve veci zaroven:
> 1) zmena schematu/navrhu RX

I already wanted to work on the RX, I moved some parts on the schematics but
the then PCB sucked - I wanted to save and quit and although I saved multiple
times, it asked me with Quit: "do you really want to destroy the data?" so
finally I pressed OK to get out, but it wasn't saved... so I lost my work
because PCB is crap.

I'll have to find out what's wrong there and continue but I didn't have time
for that since then.

> 2) misto klasickych (levnych) mutlimetru si kupte a: lepsi multimetry...treba Metex? rady 3xxx nebo b: rucickovy Avomet, protoze "rucickove" meraky nejsou nachylne na VF zareni....takze prohrabte sklepy a najdete stare ruckove
> merici pristroje

What happens if you tie multimeter probes together and irradiate with HF?
Does it show 100mV DC then?

CL<
> Martin -=RYS=-
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________________________
> > Od: clock at twibright.com
> > Komu: Twibright Ronja <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
> > Datum: 20.09.2006 09:49
> > P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] rssi a PMR radiostanice
> >
> >On Tue, Sep 19, 2006 at 09:12:57PM +0200, Cipis wrote:
> >> Nazdar,
> >> tak schvalne, kolik komu jaka radiostanice prida signalu na rssi?
> >> Me to pri mereni z 200mV udelalo az 500mV a ronja mirila do oblak.
> >> Stanici mam HOFFER SP3380, pri trvalem vysilani to neustale zvetsovalo RSSI.
> >
> >Jakej vykon ma ta radiostanice?
> >
> >CL<
> >> 
> >> Cipis 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Ronja mailing list
> >> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> >> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Ronja mailing list
> >Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> >http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> > 
> 
> 

> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja



From clock at twibright.com  Wed Sep 20 14:54:59 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 15:54:59 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] rssi a PMR radiostanice
In-Reply-To: <200609192143.37769.ladmanj@volny.cz>
References: <003001c6dc1f$9de7f840$5046a8c0@cipis.net>
	<200609192143.37769.ladmanj@volny.cz>
Message-ID: <20060920135459.GB687@kestrel.twibright.com>

On Tue, Sep 19, 2006 at 09:43:37PM +0200, Jakub Ladman wrote:
> Dne ?ter? 19 z??? 2006 21:12 Cipis napsal(a):
> > Nazdar,
> > tak schvalne, kolik komu jaka radiostanice prida signalu na rssi?
> > Me to pri mereni z 200mV udelalo az 500mV a ronja mirila do oblak.
> > Stanici mam HOFFER SP3380, pri trvalem vysilani to neustale zvetsovalo
> > RSSI.
> 
> Nam taky pridava a dost znacne nas to sere.

Could you try the same but tying the multimeter probes together? I want to
know if it's happening in the multimeter or in the Ronja.

CL<
> Jakub Ladman
> 
> >
> > Cipis
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ronja mailing list
> > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From seligr at sh.cvut.cz  Wed Sep 20 15:27:31 2006
From: seligr at sh.cvut.cz (Petr Seliger)
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 16:27:31 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] rssi a PMR radiostanice
In-Reply-To: <20060920135413.GA687@kestrel.twibright.com>
References: <003001c6dc1f$9de7f840$5046a8c0@cipis.net>
	<20060920074908.GA32630@kestrel.twibright.com>
	<200609201019.3868@centrum.cz>
	<20060920135413.GA687@kestrel.twibright.com>
Message-ID: <1158762451.45114fd3ad27e@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>

Cituji z emailu od Karel Kulhavy <clock at twibright.com>:

> On Wed, Sep 20, 2006 at 10:19:23AM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote:
> > Dle  VO: 
> http://www.ctu.cz/1/download/Opatreni%20obecne%20povahy/VO_R_03_07_2005_16.pdf
> > a drive  GL - 3/R/2000 je povolen maximalni vykon (je povolena pouze
> integrovana antena, nesmi byt odnimatelna)
> > 500mW ERP. Kdyz jsem par "hracek" z TESCO premeroval, tak PA mel okolo
> 170-200mW.
> > Ale ted si predstav tyto modelove situace:
> > 1) Firma sidli ve stejnem baraku jako je instalace Ronji a na strese ma
> zakladnovou antenu a do ni muze jit i 25W PA v pasmu 70cm.
> > 2) Radioamater sidli ve stejnem baraku jako je instalae Ronji a na strese
> ma zakladnovou antenu a do ni muze jit i 1500W PA v pasmu 70cm.
> > 3) Eurotel ma ve stejnem baraku zakladnovou stanici CDMA 450 a vykon do
> anten muze byt az 25W PA.
> > 4) Existuje VO:
> http://www.ctu.cz/1/download/Opatreni%20obecne%20povahy/VO_R_16_08_2005_28.pdf
> >     drive GL - 16/R/2000, ktera povoluje rucni radiostanice o vykonu az 5W
> PA.
> > 5) Nekdo muze mit na strese venkovni bezdratovou cast meteostanice, ktera
> prenasi udaje do zakladnove casti
> >     meteostanice na kmitoctu 433.9xx MHz.
> > 6) Nekdo, kdo montuje Ronju, ma v kapse bezdratove ovladani od zamku/alarmu
> v aute a zrovne ve chvili se oprel
> >     o tlacitko vysilani a 0.05mW PA na 433.922 (Skoda) muze zkreslit
> mereni.
> > Jak odstranit tento problem? Musi se provest dve veci zaroven:
> > 1) zmena schematu/navrhu RX
> 
> I already wanted to work on the RX, I moved some parts on the schematics
> but
> the then PCB sucked - I wanted to save and quit and although I saved
> multiple
> times, it asked me with Quit: "do you really want to destroy the data?" so
> finally I pressed OK to get out, but it wasn't saved... so I lost my work
> because PCB is crap.
> 
> I'll have to find out what's wrong there and continue but I didn't have
> time
> for that since then.

Rozumne reseni je udelat vystup rssi aby mel vystupni odpor radu max. stovek
ohm. No a jedina rozumna vatianta je tam dat poradny rail2rail OZ a to nam razem
zdvojnasobi cenu soucastek. Nebo tam hodit nabojovou pumpu treba 7660 a pak
prekopavat zbytek RXu :)
Tak babo rad.

> 
> > 2) misto klasickych (levnych) mutlimetru si kupte a: lepsi
> multimetry...treba Metex  rady 3xxx nebo b: rucickovy Avomet, protoze
> "rucickove" meraky nejsou nachylne na VF zareni....takze prohrabte sklepy a
> najdete stare ruckove
> > merici pristroje
> 
> What happens if you tie multimeter probes together and irradiate with HF?
> Does it show 100mV DC then?
> 

Taky se to rozhazuje. Problem bude ze se vf napeti usmernuje na pn prechodech v
operaku za vstupnim delicem. Jeste by se mohl zkusit merit proud misto rssi
napeti. To ma multimetr malou impedanci a ruseni by nemelo tolik vadit.

> CL<
> > Martin -=RYS=-
> > 
> > 



From ladmanj at volny.cz  Wed Sep 20 19:10:11 2006
From: ladmanj at volny.cz (Jakub Ladman)
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 20:10:11 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] rssi a PMR radiostanice
In-Reply-To: <20060920074908.GA32630@kestrel.twibright.com>
References: <003001c6dc1f$9de7f840$5046a8c0@cipis.net>
	<20060920074908.GA32630@kestrel.twibright.com>
Message-ID: <200609202010.11165.ladmanj@volny.cz>

Dne st?eda 20 z??? 2006 09:49 Karel Kulhavy napsal(a):
> On Tue, Sep 19, 2006 at 09:12:57PM +0200, Cipis wrote:
> > Nazdar,
> > tak schvalne, kolik komu jaka radiostanice prida signalu na rssi?
> > Me to pri mereni z 200mV udelalo az 500mV a ronja mirila do oblak.
> > Stanici mam HOFFER SP3380, pri trvalem vysilani to neustale zvetsovalo
> > RSSI.
>
> Jakej vykon ma ta radiostanice?

CB 4W se cvrtvlnym dipolem prizpusobenym odhadem, to bylo az o 1V
S malou asi dvoumetrovou (lambda) stanickou ze supermarketu (vykon nevim, ale 
je na tri mikrotuzky, tak to moc nebude) asi o 200mV plus.

Merak je metex M-3800 coz je starej spolehlivej kram, ale co se tyce 
citlivosti na vf, jsem nikdy nelaboroval.

Bohuzel ruckovej avomet II mi kamos rozbil, takze nic ruckovyho nemam, ale mam 
mam samotny meridla, mozna bych neco kolem toho mohl zbastlit. 

Jakub 
>
> CL<
>
> > Cipis
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ronja mailing list
> > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From clock at twibright.com  Wed Sep 20 19:36:44 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 20:36:44 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] rssi a PMR radiostanice
In-Reply-To: <1158762451.45114fd3ad27e@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
References: <003001c6dc1f$9de7f840$5046a8c0@cipis.net>
	<20060920074908.GA32630@kestrel.twibright.com>
	<200609201019.3868@centrum.cz>
	<20060920135413.GA687@kestrel.twibright.com>
	<1158762451.45114fd3ad27e@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
Message-ID: <20060920183644.GA4833@kestrel.twibright.com>

On Wed, Sep 20, 2006 at 04:27:31PM +0200, Petr Seliger wrote:
> Cituji z emailu od Karel Kulhavy <clock at twibright.com>:
[...]
> 
> Rozumne reseni je udelat vystup rssi aby mel vystupni odpor radu max. stovek
> ohm. No a jedina rozumna vatianta je tam dat poradny rail2rail OZ a to nam razem

How does it help if RSSI output has max. hundreds ohm impedance?

> zdvojnasobi cenu soucastek. Nebo tam hodit nabojovou pumpu treba 7660 a pak
> prekopavat zbytek RXu :)

How does a charge pump help against HF interference?

CL<


From seligr at sh.cvut.cz  Wed Sep 20 21:00:23 2006
From: seligr at sh.cvut.cz (Petr Seliger)
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 22:00:23 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] rssi a PMR radiostanice
In-Reply-To: <20060920183644.GA4833@kestrel.twibright.com>
References: <003001c6dc1f$9de7f840$5046a8c0@cipis.net>
	<20060920074908.GA32630@kestrel.twibright.com>
	<200609201019.3868@centrum.cz>
	<20060920135413.GA687@kestrel.twibright.com>
	<1158762451.45114fd3ad27e@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
	<20060920183644.GA4833@kestrel.twibright.com>
Message-ID: <1158782423.45119dd727ec8@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>

Cituji z emailu od Karel Kulhavy <clock at twibright.com>:

> On Wed, Sep 20, 2006 at 04:27:31PM +0200, Petr Seliger wrote:
> > Cituji z emailu od Karel Kulhavy <clock at twibright.com>:
> [...]
> > 
> > Rozumne reseni je udelat vystup rssi aby mel vystupni odpor radu max.
> stovek
> > ohm. No a jedina rozumna vatianta je tam dat poradny rail2rail OZ a to nam
> razem
> 
> How does it help if RSSI output has max. hundreds ohm impedance?
> 
> > zdvojnasobi cenu soucastek. Nebo tam hodit nabojovou pumpu treba 7660 a
> pak
> > prekopavat zbytek RXu :)
> 
> How does a charge pump help against HF interference?

Nijak, ale delej si s jednoduchym napajenim a obycejnym OZ sledovac co bude
chodit od 0V.

> 
> CL<
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 





From zapadlo at melzer.cz  Thu Sep 21 06:29:16 2006
From: zapadlo at melzer.cz (Petr Zapadlo)
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 07:29:16 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] rssi a PMR radiostanice
In-Reply-To: <1158782423.45119dd727ec8@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
References: <003001c6dc1f$9de7f840$5046a8c0@cipis.net>
	<20060920183644.GA4833@kestrel.twibright.com>
	<1158782423.45119dd727ec8@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
Message-ID: <200609210729.17414.zapadlo@melzer.cz>


> Nijak, ale delej si s jednoduchym napajenim a obycejnym OZ sledovac co bude
> chodit od 0V.


Napriklad LM124 (je sice 4 nasobnej, ale casto ho pouzivam), ten spolehlive 
chodi od 0.
U chobota stoji 30kc coz snad neni takova hruza.

S pozdravem
-- 
Petr "Zapik" Zapadlo


Ing. Petr Zapadlo
vedouc? odd?len? syst?mov? podpory
Melzer, spol. s r.o.
Doln? 71, 796 01 Prost?jov
tel: 588 500134
mailto: zapadlo at melzer.cz
http://www.melzer.cz


From jdb at lartmaker.nl  Thu Sep 21 13:46:29 2006
From: jdb at lartmaker.nl (J.D. Bakker)
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 14:46:29 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Why 2220 caps on Twister2 ?
Message-ID: <a0623096ac1383989abfb@[130.161.115.44]>

Hi Karel, hi group,

Quick question: why did you decide to use 2220-format decoupling 
capacitors in the Twister2 ? I know that caps in 2220 have lower ESR 
than, say, 1206, but don't they also have higher ESL (and thus a 
lower resonance frequency) ?

Curious,

JDB
[and they're bloody expensive too]
-- 
LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files.
http://www.lartmaker.nl/


From clock at twibright.com  Fri Sep 22 09:21:09 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 10:21:09 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Why 2220 caps on Twister2 ?
In-Reply-To: <a0623096ac1383989abfb@[130.161.115.44]>
References: <a0623096ac1383989abfb@[130.161.115.44]>
Message-ID: <20060922082109.GA22972@kestrel.twibright.com>

On Thu, Sep 21, 2006 at 02:46:29PM +0200, J.D. Bakker wrote:
> Hi Karel, hi group,
> 
> Quick question: why did you decide to use 2220-format decoupling 
> capacitors in the Twister2 ? I know that caps in 2220 have lower ESR 
> than, say, 1206, but don't they also have higher ESL (and thus a 
> lower resonance frequency) ?

I am not sure I don't remember exactly anymore, but it was not because
of parameters. I think it was because 1uF are not available in 1206 at
my supplier or are too expensive. I don't know if 2220 has higher ESL than
1206.

How much does 2220 and 1206 cost at your supplier? Can't you solder 1206
onto the 2220 pads?

CL<

> 
> Curious,
> 
> JDB
> [and they're bloody expensive too]
> -- 
> LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files.
> http://www.lartmaker.nl/
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From jdb at lartmaker.nl  Fri Sep 22 10:32:27 2006
From: jdb at lartmaker.nl (J.D. Bakker)
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 11:32:27 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Why 2220 caps on Twister2 ?
In-Reply-To: <20060922082109.GA22972@kestrel.twibright.com>
References: <a0623096ac1383989abfb@[130.161.115.44]>
	<20060922082109.GA22972@kestrel.twibright.com>
Message-ID: <a06230971c1395863000a@[130.161.115.44]>

>On Thu, Sep 21, 2006 at 02:46:29PM +0200, J.D. Bakker wrote:
>  > Quick question: why did you decide to use 2220-format decoupling
>>  capacitors in the Twister2 ? I know that caps in 2220 have lower ESR
>>  than, say, 1206, but don't they also have higher ESL (and thus a
>>  lower resonance frequency) ?
>
>I am not sure I don't remember exactly anymore, but it was not because
>of parameters.

OK, good to know. Normally nobody ever uses 2220 unless there's a 
special reason (hi-voltage, usually).

>How much does 2220 and 1206 cost at your supplier?

The following are prices for 1uF >=25V X7R capacitors in small quantities.

Digi-Key: US$0.065 - US$0.63 for 1206; US$3.29 - US$8.58 for 2220
Farnell : EUR0.13 for 1206; EUR4.21 for 2220

That puts the cost of those seven decoupling caps at >20% of the BOM 
cost of a complete Tetrapolis.

>  Can't you solder 1206
>onto the 2220 pads?

I think I'll try that, yes.

JDB.
-- 
LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files.
http://www.lartmaker.nl/


From clock at twibright.com  Fri Sep 22 11:19:13 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 12:19:13 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Why 2220 caps on Twister2 ?
In-Reply-To: <a06230971c1395863000a@[130.161.115.44]>
References: <a0623096ac1383989abfb@[130.161.115.44]>
	<20060922082109.GA22972@kestrel.twibright.com>
	<a06230971c1395863000a@[130.161.115.44]>
Message-ID: <20060922101913.GA25528@kestrel.twibright.com>

On Fri, Sep 22, 2006 at 11:32:27AM +0200, J.D. Bakker wrote:
> >On Thu, Sep 21, 2006 at 02:46:29PM +0200, J.D. Bakker wrote:
> >  > Quick question: why did you decide to use 2220-format decoupling
> >>  capacitors in the Twister2 ? I know that caps in 2220 have lower ESR
> >>  than, say, 1206, but don't they also have higher ESL (and thus a
> >>  lower resonance frequency) ?
> >
> >I am not sure I don't remember exactly anymore, but it was not because
> >of parameters.
> 
> OK, good to know. Normally nobody ever uses 2220 unless there's a 
> special reason (hi-voltage, usually).
> 
> >How much does 2220 and 1206 cost at your supplier?
> 
> The following are prices for 1uF >=25V X7R capacitors in small quantities.
> 
> Digi-Key: US$0.065 - US$0.63 for 1206; US$3.29 - US$8.58 for 2220
> Farnell : EUR0.13 for 1206; EUR4.21 for 2220
> 
> That puts the cost of those seven decoupling caps at >20% of the BOM 
> cost of a complete Tetrapolis.
> 
> >  Can't you solder 1206
> >onto the 2220 pads?
> 
> I think I'll try that, yes.

If it works tell me I'll write it into the replacements.

CL<
> 
> JDB.
> -- 
> LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files.
> http://www.lartmaker.nl/
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From PacoMT at aol.com  Fri Sep 22 18:25:28 2006
From: PacoMT at aol.com (PacoMT at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 13:25:28 EDT
Subject: [Ronja] PCB manufacture - through holes
Message-ID: <535.7e64526.32457688@aol.com>

To anyone who knows the answer:
     Is it neccessary to copper plate through-holes for the RONJA Twister 2 
or any other RONJA printed circuit board designs. I have not had time to study 
the circuits in detail as of yet so I cannot be certain and I thought I'd save 
time and money consulting those who know here. 

     The price difference between prototyping a plated through-hole design 
versus a non-plated can be rather large and I'm unclear from the instructions if 
the holes need to be copper plated or if soldering component legs through 
these holes is sufficient to complete their circuits. I hope the latter is true, 
of course. Perhaps it's in the instructions but I've missed it--repeatedly.

Thank you in advance.

-paul
-------------- next part --------------
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From clock at twibright.com  Sat Sep 23 10:01:53 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2006 11:01:53 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] PCB manufacture - through holes
In-Reply-To: <535.7e64526.32457688@aol.com>
References: <535.7e64526.32457688@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20060923090153.GA6383@kestrel.twibright.com>

On Fri, Sep 22, 2006 at 01:25:28PM -0400, PacoMT at aol.com wrote:
> To anyone who knows the answer:
>      Is it neccessary to copper plate through-holes for the RONJA Twister 2 
> or any other RONJA printed circuit board designs. I have not had time to study 
> the circuits in detail as of yet so I cannot be certain and I thought I'd save 
> time and money consulting those who know here. 
> 
>      The price difference between prototyping a plated through-hole design 
> versus a non-plated can be rather large and I'm unclear from the instructions if 
> the holes need to be copper plated or if soldering component legs through 
> these holes is sufficient to complete their circuits. I hope the latter is true, 

It is sufficient. But without the plating you have higher probability that
a junction will not be soldered properly.

> of course. Perhaps it's in the instructions but I've missed it--repeatedly.

It's in the instructions for the manufacture.

CL<
> 
> Thank you in advance.
> 
> -paul

> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja



From yrwin at email.cz  Sun Sep 24 18:16:56 2006
From: yrwin at email.cz (yrwin at email.cz)
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2006 19:16:56 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Ronja] twister test Bit Error Rate - pktloss neprosel
Message-ID: <1123.2084-21897-826596676-1159118216@email.cz>

Hezky den!
Dopajel jsem twistera a a skoncil jsem na vyse zminenem testu.
Proslo:
Packetloss on wire loopback
Sanity check

Predem dik za jakekoliv rady.
Yrwin


From clock at twibright.com  Sun Sep 24 19:55:27 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2006 20:55:27 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] twister test Bit Error Rate - pktloss neprosel
In-Reply-To: <1123.2084-21897-826596676-1159118216@email.cz>
References: <1123.2084-21897-826596676-1159118216@email.cz>
Message-ID: <20060924185527.GA5878@kestrel.twibright.com>

On Sun, Sep 24, 2006 at 07:16:56PM +0200, yrwin at email.cz wrote:
> Hezky den!
> Dopajel jsem twistera a a skoncil jsem na vyse zminenem testu.
> Proslo:
> Packetloss on wire loopback
> Sanity check

How much was the packetloss?

CL<
> 
> Predem dik za jakekoliv rady.
> Yrwin
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From gullik.webjorn at flysta.net  Mon Sep 25 19:31:12 2006
From: gullik.webjorn at flysta.net (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Gullik_Webj=F6rn?=)
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 20:31:12 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Anybody working with 100 mbit/sec?
Message-ID: <CIEJIFPCCIHEDHKEBFNAAECHCAAA.gullik.webjorn@flysta.net>


TX: ELD-870f-515-2 can be driven from 74AC04 and a simple preemphasis
network to handle 125 Mbps scrambled data

RX: BPV10 simply terminated in 50 ohm will reproduce the signal with
an open "eye". Bare photocomponents will give 1 mV of signal with
more than 20-25 dB SNR over 150 mm?s judged by eye/scope.

Logic: one idea is to just remove the MLT3 encoding, and use the scrambled
bitstream to drive the TX. Converting back at RX seems reasonably simple

Disadvantages:

IR, so aiming will be more difficult than with visible ronja.
IR, cannot find any visible LEDS with ehough speed.

Gullik

--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.8/455 - Release Date: 9/22/2006



From gullik.webjorn at flysta.net  Mon Sep 25 23:54:40 2006
From: gullik.webjorn at flysta.net (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Gullik_Webj=F6rn?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 00:54:40 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Some info for 100 mbps experimenters, my findings
Message-ID: <CIEJIFPCCIHEDHKEBFNACECICAAA.gullik.webjorn@flysta.net>


Tx test generator:

Oscillator: 74AC14 with 100 ohm between in and out.
		10-40 pf variable cap between in and gnd

		25 - 140 Mhz out, tune to 125 mhz

Test pattern generator:

		74AC374, octal ff with all sections in series,
		to make 8 bit shift register, clocked by osc.
		bit 5 and 6 connected to 74AC86 XOR, and output of
		that to shift register input will give 127 bit LFSR
		pseudo random generator.

TX driver:

		6 times 74AC04 ( 1 IC) , parallell like ronja tx, output
		from all in series with preemp network to LED

preemp network:

		33 ohm from TX driver out to 33 ohm in // with 82 pF
		to LED anode, LED cathode to ground.
		33 - 47 ohm from +5V to led anode to bias LED for best
		linearity.

RX1:		BPV10 with 50 ohm load, bias 5-15 V. 5 mV nice eye pattern at 15 cm
		rise and fall times almost exactly matched to 62 Mhz, i.e. changing
		frequency UP lowers fastest transitions amplitude, changing DOWN
		you get flattopping.

RX2:		BPV10 fed into 60 dB amp, 3 x NE5205 (obsolete) amps in sequence
		40 mV at 50 cm range, decodeable data pattern, no filtering,
		preemphasis etc in RX, could most certainly be improved.

		all above with no optics

		all above airwire on pcb laminate, SHORT leads.

/G
-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.8/455 - Release Date: 9/22/2006



From clock at twibright.com  Mon Sep 25 19:15:22 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 20:15:22 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] twister test Bit Error Rate - pktloss neprosel
In-Reply-To: <1123.2084-9668-1337883925-1159131475@email.cz>
References: <20060924185527.GA5878@kestrel.twibright.com>
	<1123.2084-9668-1337883925-1159131475@email.cz>
Message-ID: <20060925181522.GA22259@kestrel.twibright.com>

On Sun, Sep 24, 2006 at 10:57:55PM +0200, yrwin at email.cz wrote:
> Sorry i missed to write it. Was 100 (%).

Can you send a picture of the test setup?

CL<
> Y.
> 
> > ------------ P?vodn? zpr?va ------------
> > Od: Karel Kulhavy <clock at twibright.com>
> > P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] twister test Bit Error Rate - pktloss neprosel
> > Datum: 24.9.2006 20:55:32
> > ----------------------------------------
> > On Sun, Sep 24, 2006 at 07:16:56PM +0200, yrwin at email.cz wrote:
> > > Hezky den!
> > > Dopajel jsem twistera a a skoncil jsem na vyse zminenem testu.
> > > Proslo:
> > > Packetloss on wire loopback
> > > Sanity check
> > 
> > How much was the packetloss?
> > 
> > CL<
> > > 
> > > Predem dik za jakekoliv rady.
> > > Yrwin
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Ronja mailing list
> > > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> > 
> > 
> > 


From clock at twibright.com  Tue Sep 26 09:52:04 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 10:52:04 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Pictures of infrared beam
Message-ID: <20060926085204.GA6691@kestrel.twibright.com>

Pictures of infrared Ronja in operation:
http://images.twibright.com/tns/1f12.html
http://images.twibright.com/tns/1f13.html

It's on this link:
http://images.twibright.com/tns/1efa.html

CL<


From clock at twibright.com  Tue Sep 26 13:56:45 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 14:56:45 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] TX boards - sale?
Message-ID: <20060926125645.GA31372@kestrel.twibright.com>

Would anyone interested in a TX board (official one) for 13 CHF/piece +
postage + package, sent by post from Switzerland by me? The postage around
Europe costs IIRC 1.30 CHF (unregistered priority letter). I could accept
payment by Paypal.

1 EUR ~= 1.6 CHF
1 USD ~= 1.3 CHF

Pictures of the board:
http://ronja.twibright.com/transmitter/pcb.php

CL<


From clock at twibright.com  Tue Sep 26 14:18:26 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 15:18:26 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] TX kits - sale?
In-Reply-To: <20060926125645.GA31372@kestrel.twibright.com>
References: <20060926125645.GA31372@kestrel.twibright.com>
Message-ID: <20060926131826.GA1728@kestrel.twibright.com>

On Tue, Sep 26, 2006 at 02:56:45PM +0200, Karel Kulhavy wrote:
> Would anyone interested in a TX board (official one) for 13 CHF/piece +
> postage + package, sent by post from Switzerland by me? The postage around
> Europe costs IIRC 1.30 CHF (unregistered priority letter). I could accept
> payment by Paypal.

Or I could also offer a TX kit (PCB + electronic parts + cut out tin template)
for 40 CHF - would anyone be interested in that?

CL<

> 
> 1 EUR ~= 1.6 CHF
> 1 USD ~= 1.3 CHF
> 
> Pictures of the board:
> http://ronja.twibright.com/transmitter/pcb.php
> 
> CL<
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From yrwin at email.cz  Tue Sep 26 19:47:50 2006
From: yrwin at email.cz (yrwin at email.cz)
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 20:47:50 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Ronja]  twister test Bit Error Rate - pktloss neprosel
Message-ID: <1140.2127-3017-1110288755-1159296470@email.cz>

Obrazky jsem hodil na http://sweb.cz/yrwin
Yrwin


From clock at twibright.com  Wed Sep 27 08:38:49 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 09:38:49 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] twister test Bit Error Rate - pktloss neprosel
In-Reply-To: <1140.2127-3017-1110288755-1159296470@email.cz>
References: <1140.2127-3017-1110288755-1159296470@email.cz>
Message-ID: <20060927073848.GA7583@kestrel.twibright.com>

On Tue, Sep 26, 2006 at 08:47:50PM +0200, yrwin at email.cz wrote:
> Obrazky jsem hodil na http://sweb.cz/yrwin

I didn't see anything wrong on the first sight (but I didn't check if all chips
are the right type or not turned around).

Didn't you use some unallowed replacement for some chip? Did you perform
the final check with chip numbers, capacitor values etc.? Can you post the
other side of the board?

CL<
> Yrwin
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From yrwin at email.cz  Wed Sep 27 19:08:08 2006
From: yrwin at email.cz (yrwin at email.cz)
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 20:08:08 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Ronja]  twister test Bit Error Rate - pktloss neprosel
Message-ID: <1133.2112-7999-1068963322-1159380488@email.cz>

Zkusim anglicky .. jestli bude rozumnet ..

I added on http://sweb.cz/yrwin picture of my other side of PCB. I buyed electronic components in GME and used the recommended peaces. 
Are there any points, where can i measure voltage to which can help to find problem?
Yrwin.

PS: How can i reply in my thread?


From petr.cipis at tiscali.cz  Wed Sep 27 20:24:01 2006
From: petr.cipis at tiscali.cz (Cipis)
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 21:24:01 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] dalsi link, nas prvni :-)
Message-ID: <000d01c6e26a$7ce23c90$5046a8c0@cipis.net>

Ahoj ahoj,
tak hlasim uspesne provizorni rozjeti ronji v Tisnove.
Delka spoje cca. 1300 metru
Sede hajzl trubky prumer 125
Cela ronja vcetne drzaku je vytvor Petra Selegera, switche na obou stranach 
za twistery jsem upravoval ja. (po te dobe konecne vyuzite :D ).
Ronja spojuje casti komunitni site Sdruzeni Tisnet (Tisnov s vrskem 
Predklasteri). Je jako dalsi propoj vedle stavajiciho 5,4 GHz spoje (spoje 
jsou paralelne).
Zatim je to desna provizorka, tak fotky radsi ani publikovat nebudu, az to 
dame do kupy (hmm, uz to vidim, ze to zas budu delat ja ...), tak bude 
poradna fotodokumentace.
Asi je to prvni funkcni ronja v Tisnove a okoli, (teda, jedna se u nekoho 
vali uz min. rok a jeste ji nedal ven), dalsi by mela pribyt zanedlouho, 
jako pripojeni nasi site k providerovi misto uz nevyhovujiciho tranga.

Takze cervenym blikatkum zdar!

Cipis 



From petr.cipis at tiscali.cz  Wed Sep 27 20:34:10 2006
From: petr.cipis at tiscali.cz (Cipis)
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 21:34:10 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] dalsi link, nas prvni :-)
References: <000d01c6e26a$7ce23c90$5046a8c0@cipis.net>
Message-ID: <001201c6e26b$e7b08080$5046a8c0@cipis.net>

Jo, jeste jsem zapomnel, vzhledem k tem uvadenym potizim s vysilackama jsem 
se zatim vykvakl na sestelovani ohniska vysilace, tak je rssi jen 250mV.
Az to bude v cajku, tak tam zkusime nahonit aspon 2x vic.

Cipis


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Cipis" <petr.cipis na tiscali.cz>
To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja na lists.pointless.net>
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 9:24 PM
Subject: [Ronja] dalsi link, nas prvni :-)


> Ahoj ahoj,
> tak hlasim uspesne provizorni rozjeti ronji v Tisnove.
> Delka spoje cca. 1300 metru
> Sede hajzl trubky prumer 125
> Cela ronja vcetne drzaku je vytvor Petra Selegera, switche na obou 
> stranach
> za twistery jsem upravoval ja. (po te dobe konecne vyuzite :D ).
> Ronja spojuje casti komunitni site Sdruzeni Tisnet (Tisnov s vrskem
> Predklasteri). Je jako dalsi propoj vedle stavajiciho 5,4 GHz spoje (spoje
> jsou paralelne).
> Zatim je to desna provizorka, tak fotky radsi ani publikovat nebudu, az to
> dame do kupy (hmm, uz to vidim, ze to zas budu delat ja ...), tak bude
> poradna fotodokumentace.
> Asi je to prvni funkcni ronja v Tisnove a okoli, (teda, jedna se u nekoho
> vali uz min. rok a jeste ji nedal ven), dalsi by mela pribyt zanedlouho,
> jako pripojeni nasi site k providerovi misto uz nevyhovujiciho tranga.
>
> Takze cervenym blikatkum zdar!
>
> Cipis
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja 



From clock at twibright.com  Thu Sep 28 13:37:43 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 14:37:43 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Cutting tree twigs for carrier beam
Message-ID: <20060928123743.GA6070@kestrel.twibright.com>

Did anyone need to cut tree twigs to make a way for carrier beam after a
tree grew up? If yes, can you describe the method you used?

CL<


From clock at twibright.com  Thu Sep 28 13:52:00 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 14:52:00 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] your mail
In-Reply-To: <20060927201743.5061413D57@server8.alinet.sk>
References: <20060927201743.5061413D57@server8.alinet.sk>
Message-ID: <20060928125200.GB6070@kestrel.twibright.com>

On Wed, Sep 27, 2006 at 10:17:43PM +0200, lubig wrote:
> Nazdar Clocku
> chcel by som sa len spytat ake faktory ovlyvnuju prenosovu rychlost 10mbit u
> ronje metropolis

The modulation speed of Ronja is always fixed at 10.0Mbps. The fog can only
cause that the link doesn't work, or rarely, that it has packetloss.

CL<
> 
> s pozdravom 
> 
> LubigX


From clock at twibright.com  Thu Sep 28 13:57:55 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 14:57:55 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] twister test Bit Error Rate - pktloss neprosel
In-Reply-To: <1133.2112-7999-1068963322-1159380488@email.cz>
References: <1133.2112-7999-1068963322-1159380488@email.cz>
Message-ID: <20060928125755.GA3429@kestrel.twibright.com>

On Wed, Sep 27, 2006 at 08:08:08PM +0200, yrwin at email.cz wrote:
> Zkusim anglicky .. jestli bude rozumnet ..
> 
> I added on http://sweb.cz/yrwin picture of my other side of PCB. I buyed
> electronic components in GME and used the recommended peaces. 

It's a bit blurry so I can't see the quality of the soldering. I would
recommend to wash it in (isopropyl)alcohol and perform inspection. Look
for unsoldered joints. Look for joints which are ugly and resolder them.
Then if it doesn't start working, perform the check from the instructions
(component types and orientation, etc.)

There are measuring points in Twister2. Do you understand how to
apply them for Twister? I don't know if I should make measuring points for
Twister if it's already obsolete - do you think I should make them?

CL<

> Are there any points, where can i measure voltage to which can help to find
> problem?

> Yrwin.
> 
> PS: How can i reply in my thread?
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From clock at twibright.com  Thu Sep 28 13:58:44 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 14:58:44 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] dalsi link, nas prvni :-)
In-Reply-To: <000d01c6e26a$7ce23c90$5046a8c0@cipis.net>
References: <000d01c6e26a$7ce23c90$5046a8c0@cipis.net>
Message-ID: <20060928125844.GB3429@kestrel.twibright.com>

On Wed, Sep 27, 2006 at 09:24:01PM +0200, Cipis wrote:
> Ahoj ahoj,
> tak hlasim uspesne provizorni rozjeti ronji v Tisnove.
> Delka spoje cca. 1300 metru
> Sede hajzl trubky prumer 125

130mm lenses?

> Cela ronja vcetne drzaku je vytvor Petra Selegera, switche na obou stranach 
> za twistery jsem upravoval ja. (po te dobe konecne vyuzite :D ).
> Ronja spojuje casti komunitni site Sdruzeni Tisnet (Tisnov s vrskem 
> Predklasteri). Je jako dalsi propoj vedle stavajiciho 5,4 GHz spoje (spoje 
> jsou paralelne).

Is the 5.4GHz link there to increase RSSI? :D

CL<
> Zatim je to desna provizorka, tak fotky radsi ani publikovat nebudu, az to 
> dame do kupy (hmm, uz to vidim, ze to zas budu delat ja ...), tak bude 
> poradna fotodokumentace.
> Asi je to prvni funkcni ronja v Tisnove a okoli, (teda, jedna se u nekoho 
> vali uz min. rok a jeste ji nedal ven), dalsi by mela pribyt zanedlouho, 
> jako pripojeni nasi site k providerovi misto uz nevyhovujiciho tranga.
> 
> Takze cervenym blikatkum zdar!
> 
> Cipis 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From petr.cipis at tiscali.cz  Thu Sep 28 20:32:33 2006
From: petr.cipis at tiscali.cz (Cipis)
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 21:32:33 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] dalsi link, nas prvni :-)
References: <000d01c6e26a$7ce23c90$5046a8c0@cipis.net>
	<20060928125844.GB3429@kestrel.twibright.com>
Message-ID: <001201c6e334$d8cebdb0$5046a8c0@cipis.net>

cocka i s rameckem m? 125 mm
5.4 spoj to rssi nezveda, to byla opravdu ta vysilacka
a naopak, ani ronja nema vliv na to 5,4 pojitko, ikdyz se na druhe strane 
defacto dotyka 60cm paraboly

Cipis


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Karel Kulhavy" <clock na twibright.com>
To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja na lists.pointless.net>
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 2:58 PM
Subject: Re: [Ronja] dalsi link, nas prvni :-)


> On Wed, Sep 27, 2006 at 09:24:01PM +0200, Cipis wrote:
>> Ahoj ahoj,
>> tak hlasim uspesne provizorni rozjeti ronji v Tisnove.
>> Delka spoje cca. 1300 metru
>> Sede hajzl trubky prumer 125
>
> 130mm lenses?
>
>> Cela ronja vcetne drzaku je vytvor Petra Selegera, switche na obou 
>> stranach
>> za twistery jsem upravoval ja. (po te dobe konecne vyuzite :D ).
>> Ronja spojuje casti komunitni site Sdruzeni Tisnet (Tisnov s vrskem
>> Predklasteri). Je jako dalsi propoj vedle stavajiciho 5,4 GHz spoje 
>> (spoje
>> jsou paralelne).
>
> Is the 5.4GHz link there to increase RSSI? :D
>
> CL<
>> Zatim je to desna provizorka, tak fotky radsi ani publikovat nebudu, az 
>> to
>> dame do kupy (hmm, uz to vidim, ze to zas budu delat ja ...), tak bude
>> poradna fotodokumentace.
>> Asi je to prvni funkcni ronja v Tisnove a okoli, (teda, jedna se u nekoho
>> vali uz min. rok a jeste ji nedal ven), dalsi by mela pribyt zanedlouho,
>> jako pripojeni nasi site k providerovi misto uz nevyhovujiciho tranga.
>>
>> Takze cervenym blikatkum zdar!
>>
>> Cipis
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ronja mailing list
>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja 



From clock at twibright.com  Fri Sep 29 13:52:51 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 14:52:51 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Realisation of your project
In-Reply-To: <8C8B1ACB71882BE-4C4-383C@FWM-M25.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8C8B1ACB71882BE-4C4-383C@FWM-M25.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <20060929125251.GC19015@kestrel.twibright.com>

On Fri, Sep 29, 2006 at 03:05:00AM -0400, andylohr at aol.com wrote:
> Hello,
> I read your article about your project with lots of enjoyment. Although I
> know that you earn your money with that project I?m interested in the way of
> receiving the information you send with your "LED pack".  I try for 1,5 year
> to solve this problem but without any results. My problem is the sensitivity.
> If you higher it the transmitted data is no more useful. Perhaps you can help
> me a little bit.

Just build Ronja and you don't have to develop anything.

CL<

>  
> Thanks.
>  
> Andreas Lohr


From clock at twibright.com  Fri Sep 29 14:23:14 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 15:23:14 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] dalsi link, nas prvni :-)
In-Reply-To: <000d01c6e26a$7ce23c90$5046a8c0@cipis.net>
References: <000d01c6e26a$7ce23c90$5046a8c0@cipis.net>
Message-ID: <20060929132314.GA19739@kestrel.twibright.com>

On Wed, Sep 27, 2006 at 09:24:01PM +0200, Cipis wrote:
> Ahoj ahoj,
> tak hlasim uspesne provizorni rozjeti ronji v Tisnove.
> Delka spoje cca. 1300 metru

Thanks, added into the gallery - 139 now.

CL<
> Sede hajzl trubky prumer 125
> Cela ronja vcetne drzaku je vytvor Petra Selegera, switche na obou stranach 
> za twistery jsem upravoval ja. (po te dobe konecne vyuzite :D ).
> Ronja spojuje casti komunitni site Sdruzeni Tisnet (Tisnov s vrskem 
> Predklasteri). Je jako dalsi propoj vedle stavajiciho 5,4 GHz spoje (spoje 
> jsou paralelne).
> Zatim je to desna provizorka, tak fotky radsi ani publikovat nebudu, az to 
> dame do kupy (hmm, uz to vidim, ze to zas budu delat ja ...), tak bude 
> poradna fotodokumentace.
> Asi je to prvni funkcni ronja v Tisnove a okoli, (teda, jedna se u nekoho 
> vali uz min. rok a jeste ji nedal ven), dalsi by mela pribyt zanedlouho, 
> jako pripojeni nasi site k providerovi misto uz nevyhovujiciho tranga.
> 
> Takze cervenym blikatkum zdar!
> 
> Cipis 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From clock at twibright.com  Fri Sep 29 16:47:18 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 17:47:18 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] [lazna@volny.cz: Re: 5 Ronji?]
In-Reply-To: <451A65D5.6010601@seznam.cz>
References: <20060914060630.GA21439@kestrel.twibright.com>
	<4508F982.7020401@seznam.cz>
	<20060914094614.GA20584@kestrel.twibright.com>
	<45092E10.7080907@seznam.cz>
	<20060923194323.GA32653@kestrel.twibright.com>
	<4516DC32.7080106@seznam.cz>
	<20060925101522.GA29469@kestrel.twibright.com>
	<451A65D5.6010601@seznam.cz>
Message-ID: <20060929154718.GA22963@kestrel.twibright.com>

On Wed, Sep 27, 2006 at 01:51:49PM +0200, Schumann Miroslav wrote:
> Karel Kulhavy napsal(a):
> >On Sun, Sep 24, 2006 at 09:27:46PM +0200, Schumann Miroslav wrote:
> >  
[...]
> >>>Moc se omlouvam, v soucasne dobe je jiz Nebulus nahrazen cervenym 
> >>>vysilacem, ne ze by to nechodilo ale meli jsme nejake komplikace se 
> >>>zamerovanim tak jsem tam posleze dal klasickou cervenou. Nebulus byl na 
> >>>spoji AP Lazna-Sonny. Pro pobaveni pridavam 2 sci fi snimky z IR kamery
> >>>      
> >
> >Co to bylo za IR kameru?
[...]
> >
> >  
> Byla to staricka Sonny DCR-TRV310, digital 8, prepnuta na night shot v 
> rezimu fotak

Do you know about any digital still camera that features night shot? Or
at least a mode where the optical filter blocking IR is put aside?

Did anyone do experiments with a plain B/W CCD camera (like the cheap
security ones)?

CL<
> 
> Schum


From kubajz at kbx.cz  Fri Sep 29 19:35:53 2006
From: kubajz at kbx.cz (Jakub Sykora)
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 20:35:53 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] [lazna@volny.cz: Re: 5 Ronji?]
In-Reply-To: <20060929154718.GA22963@kestrel.twibright.com>
References: <20060914060630.GA21439@kestrel.twibright.com>	<4508F982.7020401@seznam.cz>	<20060914094614.GA20584@kestrel.twibright.com>	<45092E10.7080907@seznam.cz>	<20060923194323.GA32653@kestrel.twibright.com>	<4516DC32.7080106@seznam.cz>	<20060925101522.GA29469@kestrel.twibright.com>	<451A65D5.6010601@seznam.cz>
	<20060929154718.GA22963@kestrel.twibright.com>
Message-ID: <451D6789.8090604@kbx.cz>

AFAIK security cameras do not have IR filters, because usually you can 
equip them with IR illuminator to achieve picture shooting even at night.

Digital still cameras usually filter IR because IR causes some artifacts 
  around objects producing/reflecting heat. One cheap 2Mpx camera I 
tried was not equipped with this filter and shooting a fire torch caused 
great aura around the fire and the color was rather green (more IR than 
visible light at sensor) than orange/yellow.

I sought a page, where someone was trying to shoot IR only images using 
BW camera film as an IR pass filter and ordinary web cameras. Some web 
cameras do not have IR filters, from some you can remove the filter and 
some webcams have the IR filter fixed directly on chip which cannot be 
removed.

K

Karel Kulhavy napsal(a):
> On Wed, Sep 27, 2006 at 01:51:49PM +0200, Schumann Miroslav wrote:
>> Karel Kulhavy napsal(a):
>>> On Sun, Sep 24, 2006 at 09:27:46PM +0200, Schumann Miroslav wrote:
>>>  
> [...]
>>>>> Moc se omlouvam, v soucasne dobe je jiz Nebulus nahrazen cervenym 
>>>>> vysilacem, ne ze by to nechodilo ale meli jsme nejake komplikace se 
>>>>> zamerovanim tak jsem tam posleze dal klasickou cervenou. Nebulus byl na 
>>>>> spoji AP Lazna-Sonny. Pro pobaveni pridavam 2 sci fi snimky z IR kamery
>>>>>      
>>> Co to bylo za IR kameru?
> [...]
>>>  
>> Byla to staricka Sonny DCR-TRV310, digital 8, prepnuta na night shot v 
>> rezimu fotak
> 
> Do you know about any digital still camera that features night shot? Or
> at least a mode where the optical filter blocking IR is put aside?
> 
> Did anyone do experiments with a plain B/W CCD camera (like the cheap
> security ones)?
> 
> CL<
>> Schum
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja

-- 
Jakub S?kora
email: kubajz na kbx.cz       <')
ICQ: 68976632               ( =-
mobil: +420 777 594 201      ''
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