From petr.cipis at tiscali.cz Mon Oct 2 20:30:14 2006 From: petr.cipis at tiscali.cz (Cipis) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 21:30:14 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] spoj v Tisnove Message-ID: <000501c6e659$305d3350$5046a8c0@cipis.net> mno, tak jsem prece jenom udelal nejake fotky: http://www.cipis.net/ronja/foto/cipis.net/01_provizorka/ je to fakt provizorka (nezapojene kabely od vyhrivani, kabely k tx a rx volne vysici a vedouci do prujezdu, kde je na zemi twister a hack_switch, ...) no proste bleee :-) Cipis From clock at twibright.com Mon Oct 2 21:46:41 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 22:46:41 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] No more PayPal donations Message-ID: <20061002204641.GA6900@kestrel.twibright.com> I closed my PayPal account after reading this: http://paypalsucks.com/ While reading the User Agreement I also discovered the account is allowed to be use only for payments associated with transfer of goods - which Ronja donations are not. This requirement is present only in some countries, including the one I am in. So the account couldn't be used in accordance with UA anyway. So it's not possible to send donations thru PayPal anymore - the remaining options are IBAN wire transfer and possibly other means of transferring money. CL< From asteri_x at freemail.hu Mon Oct 2 22:02:47 2006 From: asteri_x at freemail.hu (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gyurk=F3Martin?=) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2006 23:02:47 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Cutting tree twigs for carrier beam In-Reply-To: <20060928123743.GA6070@kestrel.twibright.com> References: <20060928123743.GA6070@kestrel.twibright.com> Message-ID: <45217E77.2000605@freemail.hu> Yeah. We are in the information era, and have problems because of these oldfashioned biological things... I would have to cut a whole forest. But, there is a good tool, called "Fuchsschwanz" in German, and you also can get similar saws, that are mounted on 3m long poles. If that is not enough to reach the tree, then it is better you get a ladder, to be more close to the twigs. It is also safer. Karel Kulhavy wrote: > Did anyone need to cut tree twigs to make a way for carrier beam after a > tree grew up? If yes, can you describe the method you used? > > CL< > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > From asteri_x at freemail.hu Mon Oct 2 22:30:57 2006 From: asteri_x at freemail.hu (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gyurk=F3Martin?=) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2006 23:30:57 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Some info for 100 mbps experimenters, my findings In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <45218511.80200@freemail.hu> Hi! You don't even need a testpattern generator! Only get a not used switch or router, and plug an UTP cable into it. To get the continuous IDLE pattern on the cable, you have to connect the orange with the green cable, and the orange-white with the green-white cable. The autonegotiation in the device thinks there is a good fast device on the other side and begins to send the IDLE pattern. Actually it is a very beautiful signal on the oscilloscope, and you get a much better aproach to what you have to connect your design to and get it working... I tested this also with a 15m UTP cable. It is still beautiful. No significant change in the signal. MLT-3 stuff reproduction in RX is not as trivial as you think, because if you use flipflops, or similar cheap components, every spike can trigger the level. Using a PLL would be a good help, but make everything way more expensive. I am still experimenting with using the whole MLT-3 coding, and good TX-RX combinations, but I don't have time. Bussiness trips make my life hard. By the way, is there a good place near L.A.(CA), where I could buy LED-s or LD-s? Or CPLD-s ? Bye Martin Gullik Webj?rn wrote: > Tx test generator: > From toad at amphibian.dyndns.org Mon Oct 2 22:04:38 2006 From: toad at amphibian.dyndns.org (toad) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 22:04:38 +0100 Subject: [Ronja] No more PayPal donations In-Reply-To: <20061002204641.GA6900@kestrel.twibright.com> References: <20061002204641.GA6900@kestrel.twibright.com> Message-ID: <20061002210438.GA30230@amphibian.dyndns.org> On Mon, Oct 02, 2006 at 10:46:41PM +0200, Karel Kulhavy wrote: > I closed my PayPal account after reading this: > http://paypalsucks.com/ > > While reading the User Agreement I also discovered the account is allowed > to be use only for payments associated with transfer of goods - which Ronja > donations are not. This requirement is present only in some countries, > including the one I am in. So the account couldn't be used in accordance with > UA anyway. Ugh. What country are you in? > > So it's not possible to send donations thru PayPal anymore - the remaining > options are IBAN wire transfer and possibly other means of transferring money. E-gold is nice (it's UA is perfect), but inconvenient. Moneybookers is regulated and well established. Amazon Honour System is a PITA. Realistically nobody ever uses anything except paypal, unless they're sending huge amounts, in which case they may use wire transfers etc. > > CL< -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20061002/6c44645d/attachment.bin From clock at twibright.com Tue Oct 3 15:34:19 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 16:34:19 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Ronja Inferno-zvetseni dosahu? In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.1.20051019162214.01b56930@imap.uni-wuerzburg.de> References: <6.0.0.22.1.20051019162214.01b56930@imap.uni-wuerzburg.de> Message-ID: <20061003143419.GA25480@kestrel.twibright.com> On Wed, Oct 19, 2005 at 04:25:15PM +0200, Radim Vicik wrote: > Zdravim! > Predne gratuluju k napadu a realizaci, fakt perfektni vec se vam podarila . > Zajimam se o ronju inferno, protoze telekom uz me proste nebavi J > Muj problem tkvi v tom, ze sice mam primou viditelnost ke kanclu se > 100Mbps, bohuzel vzdalenost cini 2,2 km. Wifi je nerealizovatelne vzhledem > k tomu ze bych na tuto vzdalenost pokryl asi 1km2, coz by se mnoha lidem > nemuselo libit. A take by asi byl problem kvuli par budovam > Kazdopadne bych se chtel zeptat, jestli by se dala realizovat ronja s napr. > 4 IRLED misto s 1 IRLED. Podle selskeho rozumu by se tim mohla zvysit > intenzita a tim padem snad i dosah. Zrejme by byla nutna jeste jedna cocka > uvnitr, ktera by svazala paprsky tech rekneme 4 LED do jednoho bodu, ktery > by lezel v ohnisku cocky k prenosu. Predpisy ohledne bezpecnosti a co ja > vim co vsecko sem ted nepletu, jenom by me fakt zajimalo, jestli se me > myslenkove pochody ubiraji spravnym smerem, nebo je to uplne mimo misu a > dosah je limitovan necim uplne jinym. > Dekuju predem a mockrat za odpoved! To get more range you would have to build 4 transmitters and point them into the same place. You cannot put 4 LEDs into one transmitter. Well you can, but it will not increase the range. But if you build 4 transmitters you will not get 1.25km*sqrt(4)=2.50km but less, because some mist is calculated in the range calculations. With 3 Tetrapolis transmitters you get 1.9km range, mist included. With 3xInterpolis TX you get only 1.75km range. With 4xInterpolis you get 1.85km and 4xTetrapolis approx. 2.1km. Tetrapolis has 13cm lenses and Interpolis only 9cm ones in the transmitter. So Interpolis TX is easier to build in multiple pieces. CL< > S pratelskym pozdravem > Radim Vicik > > _________________________________________________________________ > Dr. Radim Vicik > > WG Prof. T. Schirmeister > Inst. Pharmacy and Foodchemistry > University of Wuerzburg > Am Hubland > 97074 Wuerzburg > > Tel: +49/931/888-4760 > Fax:+49/931/888-5494 > From clock at twibright.com Tue Oct 3 18:40:37 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 19:40:37 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] spoj v Tisnove In-Reply-To: <000501c6e659$305d3350$5046a8c0@cipis.net> References: <000501c6e659$305d3350$5046a8c0@cipis.net> Message-ID: <20061003174036.GA14346@kestrel.twibright.com> On Mon, Oct 02, 2006 at 09:30:14PM +0200, Cipis wrote: > mno, tak jsem prece jenom udelal nejake fotky: > http://www.cipis.net/ronja/foto/cipis.net/01_provizorka/ > > je to fakt provizorka > (nezapojene kabely od vyhrivani, kabely k tx a rx volne vysici a vedouci do > prujezdu, kde je na zemi twister a hack_switch, ...) > no proste bleee :-) Ladders and stairways leading nowhere always fascinated me: http://www.cipis.net/ronja/foto/cipis.net/01_provizorka/PA010151.JPG http://images.twibright.com/images/Bily_Kun/gamma_applied/gamma0454.jpg http://images.twibright.com/tns/lvl4/b49.jpg http://www.westexhuntingsupply.com/images/10'basewstaircase.jpg http://www.whitemud.us/images/crows_nest_blocked_stairs_1.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/40/Endlose_Treppe_KPMG_Muenchen.JPG http://www.punkycorner.it/arte/escher/09.jpg http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/5639/2020/1600/staircase.jpg CL< > > Cipis > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From clock at twibright.com Thu Oct 5 09:54:54 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2006 10:54:54 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] deadlink na webu In-Reply-To: <45244682.8050109@dj-bobr.net> References: <45244682.8050109@dj-bobr.net> Message-ID: <20061005085454.GA29856@kestrel.twibright.com> On Thu, Oct 05, 2006 at 01:40:50AM +0200, dj-bobr, worship59 wrote: > Cauj, > http://ronja.twibright.com/tetrapolis/spec.php - v radku Eye Safety > Complies with Czech State regulation: 480/2000 Col. Government Direction > about Health Protection from Non-ionizing Radiation je chybny odkaz na > PDFko - na strance je chybne uveden odkaz na > http://mvcr.iol.cz/sbirka/2000/sb139-00.pdf , spravne URL je > http://www.mvcr.cz/sbirka/2000/sb139-00.pdf Thanks, fixed. CL< > > -- > dj-bobr > From jdb at lartmaker.nl Thu Oct 5 14:25:49 2006 From: jdb at lartmaker.nl (J.D. Bakker) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2006 15:25:49 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Aligning the photodiode ? Message-ID: Hi, Are there any instructions/hints to align/focus the receiver photodiode inside the optical head ? All I could find on the website were instructions to align the TX LED ("Focusing magic"). Thanks, JDB. -- LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files. http://www.lartmaker.nl/ From clock at twibright.com Thu Oct 5 16:34:22 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2006 17:34:22 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Aligning the photodiode ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20061005153422.GB19106@kestrel.twibright.com> On Thu, Oct 05, 2006 at 03:25:49PM +0200, J.D. Bakker wrote: > Hi, > > Are there any instructions/hints to align/focus the receiver > photodiode inside the optical head ? All I could find on the website > were instructions to align the TX LED ("Focusing magic"). Yes it is done when the link is being aligned. It is described in the aligning procedure, isn't it? CL< > > Thanks, > > JDB. > -- > LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files. > http://www.lartmaker.nl/ > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From jdb at lartmaker.nl Thu Oct 5 16:46:32 2006 From: jdb at lartmaker.nl (J.D. Bakker) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2006 17:46:32 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Aligning the photodiode ? In-Reply-To: <20061005153422.GB19106@kestrel.twibright.com> References: <20061005153422.GB19106@kestrel.twibright.com> Message-ID: >On Thu, Oct 05, 2006 at 03:25:49PM +0200, J.D. Bakker wrote: > > Are there any instructions/hints to align/focus the receiver > > photodiode inside the optical head ? All I could find on the website >> were instructions to align the TX LED ("Focusing magic"). > >Yes it is done when the link is being aligned. It is described in the >aligning procedure, isn't it? Where ? All I can find is the (to me) very vague 'fine adjustment' section in http://ronja.twibright.com/tetrapolis/installing.php , which to me sounds like 'just fiddle with it a bit until you can't get a better RSSI or you get bored'. I am aware that alignment and focusing using that procedure are interdependent; is there any better procedure than 'just try' ? Or am I missing anything ? JDB. [who really likes the clarity of the TX focusing procedure, and was wondering if something similar exists for RX] -- LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files. http://www.lartmaker.nl/ From clock at twibright.com Thu Oct 5 20:53:27 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2006 21:53:27 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Aligning the photodiode ? In-Reply-To: References: <20061005153422.GB19106@kestrel.twibright.com> Message-ID: <20061005195327.GA3217@kestrel.twibright.com> On Thu, Oct 05, 2006 at 05:46:32PM +0200, J.D. Bakker wrote: > >On Thu, Oct 05, 2006 at 03:25:49PM +0200, J.D. Bakker wrote: > > > Are there any instructions/hints to align/focus the receiver > > > photodiode inside the optical head ? All I could find on the website > >> were instructions to align the TX LED ("Focusing magic"). > > > >Yes it is done when the link is being aligned. It is described in the > >aligning procedure, isn't it? > > Where ? > > All I can find is the (to me) very vague 'fine adjustment' section in > http://ronja.twibright.com/tetrapolis/installing.php , which to me > sounds like 'just fiddle with it a bit until you can't get a better > RSSI or you get bored'. I am aware that alignment and focusing using Get the maximum RX level using fine adjustment - isn't that clear? I do it by turning screw on one side, then the other, then seeing which way it goes up, and then I go that way until I get to the maximum and it starts going down, then I go back to the maximum. Then I do the perpendicular direction of the fine adjustment. Get the maximum RX level using RX focus - the same procedure, instead of turning screws I slide the diode in the slots. Get the maximum level using fine adjustment again - just repeat what you did before. Should I explain there in detail how to turn screws to find a maximum of some value which is dependent on the screws position? > that procedure are interdependent; is there any better procedure than > 'just try' ? It's a 3-dimensional optimization of a smooth function with one maximum. CL< > > Or am I missing anything ? > > JDB. > [who really likes the clarity of the TX focusing procedure, and was > wondering if something similar exists for RX] > -- > LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files. > http://www.lartmaker.nl/ > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From bartosz_kolodziejczak at o2.pl Fri Oct 6 00:32:05 2006 From: bartosz_kolodziejczak at o2.pl (Bartosz Kolodziejczak) Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2006 01:32:05 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] RX testpoints In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <452595F5.5020002@o2.pl> Hi Everyone, Should I care if P101 and P106 testpoints in my RX are slightly lower than it has to be? Other testpoints are perfect. Receiver is working at full speed at distance of 2,5 mtrs on floor (hpwt-bd00-f4000, sfh203). Thanks Crush ronja-request at lists.pointless.net napisa?(a): > Send Ronja mailing list submissions to > ronja at lists.pointless.net > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > ronja-request at lists.pointless.net > > You can reach the person managing the list at > ronja-owner at lists.pointless.net > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Ronja digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: deadlink na webu (Karel Kulhavy) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2006 10:54:54 +0200 > From: Karel Kulhavy > Subject: Re: [Ronja] deadlink na webu > To: "dj-bobr, worship59" > Cc: Twibright Ronja > Message-ID: <20061005085454.GA29856 at kestrel.twibright.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > On Thu, Oct 05, 2006 at 01:40:50AM +0200, dj-bobr, worship59 wrote: > >> Cauj, >> http://ronja.twibright.com/tetrapolis/spec.php - v radku Eye Safety >> Complies with Czech State regulation: 480/2000 Col. Government Direction >> about Health Protection from Non-ionizing Radiation je chybny odkaz na >> PDFko - na strance je chybne uveden odkaz na >> http://mvcr.iol.cz/sbirka/2000/sb139-00.pdf , spravne URL je >> http://www.mvcr.cz/sbirka/2000/sb139-00.pdf >> > > Thanks, fixed. > > CL< > >> -- >> dj-bobr >> >> > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > > End of Ronja Digest, Vol 42, Issue 3 > ************************************ > > > From clock at twibright.com Fri Oct 6 09:58:07 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2006 10:58:07 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] RX testpoints In-Reply-To: <452595F5.5020002@o2.pl> References: <452595F5.5020002@o2.pl> Message-ID: <20061006085807.GB3432@kestrel.twibright.com> On Fri, Oct 06, 2006 at 01:32:05AM +0200, Bartosz Kolodziejczak wrote: > Hi Everyone, > > Should I care if P101 and P106 testpoints in my RX are slightly lower > than it has to be? Other testpoints are perfect. Receiver is working at > full speed at distance of 2,5 mtrs on floor (hpwt-bd00-f4000, sfh203). Your receiver is probably perfect. Maybe the test point ranges are too narrow. What voltages do you have? CL< > > Thanks > Crush > > ronja-request at lists.pointless.net napisa?(a): > > Send Ronja mailing list submissions to > > ronja at lists.pointless.net > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > > ronja-request at lists.pointless.net > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > > ronja-owner at lists.pointless.net > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > > than "Re: Contents of Ronja digest..." > > > > > > Today's Topics: > > > > 1. Re: deadlink na webu (Karel Kulhavy) > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Message: 1 > > Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2006 10:54:54 +0200 > > From: Karel Kulhavy > > Subject: Re: [Ronja] deadlink na webu > > To: "dj-bobr, worship59" > > Cc: Twibright Ronja > > Message-ID: <20061005085454.GA29856 at kestrel.twibright.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > > > On Thu, Oct 05, 2006 at 01:40:50AM +0200, dj-bobr, worship59 wrote: > > > >> Cauj, > >> http://ronja.twibright.com/tetrapolis/spec.php - v radku Eye Safety > >> Complies with Czech State regulation: 480/2000 Col. Government Direction > >> about Health Protection from Non-ionizing Radiation je chybny odkaz na > >> PDFko - na strance je chybne uveden odkaz na > >> http://mvcr.iol.cz/sbirka/2000/sb139-00.pdf , spravne URL je > >> http://www.mvcr.cz/sbirka/2000/sb139-00.pdf > >> > > > > Thanks, fixed. > > > > CL< > > > >> -- > >> dj-bobr > >> > >> > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ronja mailing list > > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > > > > > End of Ronja Digest, Vol 42, Issue 3 > > ************************************ > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From bartosz_kolodziejczak at o2.pl Fri Oct 6 13:05:18 2006 From: bartosz_kolodziejczak at o2.pl (Bartosz Kolodziejczak) Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2006 14:05:18 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] RX testpoints In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4526467E.1060001@o2.pl> Hi Clock Well, my voltages at P101 are 11,29 - 11,33 (varies piece to piece), and P106 5,36-5,41. Thanks Crush From ladmanj at volny.cz Sat Oct 7 23:48:28 2006 From: ladmanj at volny.cz (Jakub Ladman) Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2006 00:48:28 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] OT: first steps in geda/gschem, trying to redraw spider Message-ID: <200610080048.28609.ladmanj@volny.cz> I am trying to draw something in gschem and, maybe i am an idiot, or it is completely stupid, but i do not know how to create schematic symbol - i can imagine how to draw small symbol with about ten pins, but i need XC95144XL circuit in TQFP100 which has hundred pins, i see it completely unergonomic. I have found a guide to generate symbol via tragesym, but i do not understand it the whole sequence. I really do not know if i can found the enthusiasm to discover this crazy software. Jakub Ladman From clock at twibright.com Sun Oct 8 11:20:21 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2006 12:20:21 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] 90mm Ronja for sale Message-ID: <20061008102021.GA6507@kestrel.twibright.com> I have unused 90mm Ronja with railing console - it was working perfectly on the 260m Cimice/Prague track http://ronja.twibright.com/installations.php until it was unmounted recently. http://images.twibright.com/tns/4f6.html http://images.twibright.com/tns/495.html It is with this Twister - UTP interface: http://images.twibright.com/tns/eb4.html I don't remember what LED is there. It's surely not HPWT-BD00-F4000, probably HPWT-BD00-E4000. I wonder if anyone wants to buy it as is. If you want please tell me how much you are willing to pay, I could then sell it to the highest bid. CL< From clock at twibright.com Sun Oct 8 11:21:22 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2006 12:21:22 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] RX testpoints In-Reply-To: <4526467E.1060001@o2.pl> References: <4526467E.1060001@o2.pl> Message-ID: <20061008102122.GB6507@kestrel.twibright.com> On Fri, Oct 06, 2006 at 02:05:18PM +0200, Bartosz Kolodziejczak wrote: > Hi Clock > > Well, my voltages at P101 are 11,29 - 11,33 (varies piece to piece), and > P106 5,36-5,41. How much is on P110? CL< > > Thanks > Crush > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From ladmanj at volny.cz Sun Oct 8 11:58:05 2006 From: ladmanj at volny.cz (Jakub Ladman) Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2006 12:58:05 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] non-existing link in installations database Message-ID: <200610081258.06015.ladmanj@volny.cz> The installation displayed at this image (http://images.twibright.com/images/ronja/installations/czech/prague/barrandov/bar2.jpg), was removed many months ago, because at the Holyn? side, we was unable to fix it sufficiently. The entire wooden roof was moving. Also a reason to connect this one familly house via ronja has disappeared - there was plan to connect it via second ronja to Networ node at Velka ohrada, but owner of Networ node has abandoned this idea. And wi-fi is sufficient for two or three computers in this house. At this time, these pipes are reworked to spider and installed between Barrandov1 and Wladows node, but not succesfully aimed, due to my full employment at work and my health issues. Jakub Ladman From bartosz_kolodziejczak at o2.pl Sun Oct 8 12:04:50 2006 From: bartosz_kolodziejczak at o2.pl (Bartosz Kolodziejczak) Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2006 13:04:50 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Testpoints In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4528DB52.4030703@o2.pl> > > On Fri, Oct 06, 2006 at 02:05:18PM +0200, Bartosz Kolodziejczak wrote: > >> Hi Clock >> >> Well, my voltages at P101 are 11,29 - 11,33 (varies piece to piece), and >> P106 5,36-5,41. >> > > How much is on P110? > > CL< > It's 11,95 V. Other testpoints are ok, except P101 and P106. Crush From klapek at kki.net.pl Sun Oct 8 12:51:22 2006 From: klapek at kki.net.pl (Tomasz Koprowski) Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2006 13:51:22 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] 90mm Ronja for sale In-Reply-To: <20061008102021.GA6507@kestrel.twibright.com> References: <20061008102021.GA6507@kestrel.twibright.com> Message-ID: <200610081351.22788.klapek@kki.net.pl> On Sunday 08 of October 2006 12:20, Karel Kulhavy wrote: > I have unused 90mm Ronja with railing console - it was working perfectly on ^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^ > the 260m Cimice/Prague track http://ronja.twibright.com/installations.php > until it was unmounted recently. Is it just me, or there's a little contradiction? ;-) Greetz, Tomek Koprowski From srnkap at extranetplus.cz Sun Oct 8 19:43:03 2006 From: srnkap at extranetplus.cz (Pavel Srnka) Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2006 20:43:03 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Koupe 100Mbit optopojitka Message-ID: <000601c6eb09$96a708c0$f2464d3e@homec911b8ae22> Nemel by nekdo na prodej 100 Mbitovy optopojitko ?? ------------- dal?? ??st --------------- HTML p??loha byla odstran?na... URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20061008/519f7303/attachment.html From jdb at lartmaker.nl Sun Oct 8 19:51:17 2006 From: jdb at lartmaker.nl (J.D. Bakker) Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2006 20:51:17 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Koupe 100Mbit optopojitka In-Reply-To: <000601c6eb09$96a708c0$f2464d3e@homec911b8ae22> References: <000601c6eb09$96a708c0$f2464d3e@homec911b8ae22> Message-ID: >Nemel by nekdo na prodej 100 Mbitovy optopojitko ?? Translation ? JDB [100Mb TX/RX protos are being produced, working on 100Mb bitsync] -- LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files. http://www.lartmaker.nl/ From seligr at sh.cvut.cz Sun Oct 8 19:59:29 2006 From: seligr at sh.cvut.cz (Petr Seliger) Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2006 20:59:29 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Koupe 100Mbit optopojitka In-Reply-To: <000601c6eb09$96a708c0$f2464d3e@homec911b8ae22> References: <000601c6eb09$96a708c0$f2464d3e@homec911b8ae22> Message-ID: <1160333969.45294a91c2e97@desitka.sh.cvut.cz> Jo mel, za 75 tisic. > Nemel by nekdo na prodej 100 Mbitovy optopojitko ?? > From srnkap at extranetplus.cz Sun Oct 8 20:03:48 2006 From: srnkap at extranetplus.cz (Pavel Srnka) Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2006 21:03:48 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Koupe 100Mbit optopojitka References: <000601c6eb09$96a708c0$f2464d3e@homec911b8ae22> <1160333969.45294a91c2e97@desitka.sh.cvut.cz> Message-ID: <001a01c6eb0c$7c7a90e0$f2464d3e@homec911b8ae22> prehnany,, profi reseni od laserbitu je o dost levnejsi :)) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Petr Seliger" To: "Twibright Ronja" Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 8:59 PM Subject: Re: [Ronja] Koupe 100Mbit optopojitka > Jo mel, za 75 tisic. > >> Nemel by nekdo na prodej 100 Mbitovy optopojitko ?? >> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja na lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From clock at twibright.com Sun Oct 8 20:15:12 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2006 21:15:12 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] OT: first steps in geda/gschem, trying to redraw spider In-Reply-To: <200610080048.28609.ladmanj@volny.cz> References: <200610080048.28609.ladmanj@volny.cz> Message-ID: <20061008191512.GA7841@kestrel.twibright.com> On Sun, Oct 08, 2006 at 12:48:28AM +0200, Jakub Ladman wrote: > I am trying to draw something in gschem and, maybe i am an idiot, or it is > completely stupid, but i do not know how to create schematic symbol - i can > imagine how to draw small symbol with about ten pins, but i need XC95144XL > circuit in TQFP100 which has hundred pins, i see it completely unergonomic. > I have found a guide to generate symbol via tragesym, but i do not understand > it the whole sequence. > > I really do not know if i can found the enthusiasm to discover this crazy > software. I did only manually symbols with small amount of pins :( CL< > > > Jakub Ladman > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From clock at twibright.com Sun Oct 8 20:15:44 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2006 21:15:44 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] OT: first steps in geda/gschem, trying to redraw spider In-Reply-To: <200610080048.28609.ladmanj@volny.cz> References: <200610080048.28609.ladmanj@volny.cz> Message-ID: <20061008191544.GB7841@kestrel.twibright.com> On Sun, Oct 08, 2006 at 12:48:28AM +0200, Jakub Ladman wrote: > I am trying to draw something in gschem and, maybe i am an idiot, or it is > completely stupid, but i do not know how to create schematic symbol - i can > imagine how to draw small symbol with about ten pins, but i need XC95144XL > circuit in TQFP100 which has hundred pins, i see it completely unergonomic. > I have found a guide to generate symbol via tragesym, but i do not understand > it the whole sequence. > > I really do not know if i can found the enthusiasm to discover this crazy > software. But ask on geda-user mailing list, if anyone knows, they will. CL< > > > Jakub Ladman > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From clock at twibright.com Sun Oct 8 20:18:50 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2006 21:18:50 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] 90mm Ronja for sale In-Reply-To: <200610081351.22788.klapek@kki.net.pl> References: <20061008102021.GA6507@kestrel.twibright.com> <200610081351.22788.klapek@kki.net.pl> Message-ID: <20061008191850.GE7841@kestrel.twibright.com> On Sun, Oct 08, 2006 at 01:51:22PM +0200, Tomasz Koprowski wrote: > On Sunday 08 of October 2006 12:20, Karel Kulhavy wrote: > > I have unused 90mm Ronja with railing console - it was working perfectly on > ^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^ > > the 260m Cimice/Prague track http://ronja.twibright.com/installations.php > > until it was unmounted recently. > > > Is it just me, or there's a little contradiction? ;-) I mean the device is unused now - it ran for some years. CL< > > Greetz, > Tomek Koprowski > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From petr.cipis at tiscali.cz Sun Oct 8 20:20:45 2006 From: petr.cipis at tiscali.cz (Cipis) Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2006 21:20:45 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Koupe 100Mbit optopojitka References: <000601c6eb09$96a708c0$f2464d3e@homec911b8ae22><1160333969.45294a91c2e97@desitka.sh.cvut.cz> <001a01c6eb0c$7c7a90e0$f2464d3e@homec911b8ae22> Message-ID: <002301c6eb0e$daeb48c0$5046a8c0@cipis.net> ??? mohl bys prosim dat odkazy, kde se daji koupit 100Mbit laserbit o dost levneji nez 75 tisic? Cipis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pavel Srnka" To: "Twibright Ronja" Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 9:03 PM Subject: Re: [Ronja] Koupe 100Mbit optopojitka > prehnany,, profi reseni od laserbitu je o dost levnejsi :)) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Petr Seliger" > To: "Twibright Ronja" > Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 8:59 PM > Subject: Re: [Ronja] Koupe 100Mbit optopojitka > > >> Jo mel, za 75 tisic. >> >>> Nemel by nekdo na prodej 100 Mbitovy optopojitko ?? >>> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Ronja mailing list >> Ronja na lists.pointless.net >> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja na lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From ladmanj at volny.cz Sun Oct 8 20:54:53 2006 From: ladmanj at volny.cz (Jakub Ladman) Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2006 21:54:53 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Koupe 100Mbit optopojitka In-Reply-To: <000601c6eb09$96a708c0$f2464d3e@homec911b8ae22> References: <000601c6eb09$96a708c0$f2464d3e@homec911b8ae22> Message-ID: <200610082154.53049.ladmanj@volny.cz> Dne ned?le 08 ??jen 2006 20:43 Pavel Srnka napsal(a): > Nemel by nekdo na prodej 100 Mbitovy optopojitko ?? T: Has someone 100Mbit optolink device for sale? From kendy at hkfree.org Sun Oct 8 20:25:51 2006 From: kendy at hkfree.org (Kendy) Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2006 21:25:51 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Koupe 100Mbit optopojitka In-Reply-To: <001a01c6eb0c$7c7a90e0$f2464d3e@homec911b8ae22> References: <000601c6eb09$96a708c0$f2464d3e@homec911b8ae22> <1160333969.45294a91c2e97@desitka.sh.cvut.cz> <001a01c6eb0c$7c7a90e0$f2464d3e@homec911b8ae22> Message-ID: <452950BF.1090309@hkfree.org> Ale jen na 200m http://wifi.aspa.cz/zbozi.php?detail=18864 Ostatni napr. na 500m http://wifi.aspa.cz/zbozi.php?detail=18866 te stoji > 120 bez dane A vzhledem k tomu co mi bylo sdeleno, tak seligrova 100mbit verze maka na ca 700m, takze to drahy neni... -- Kendy HKfree Pavel Srnka napsal(a): > prehnany,, profi reseni od laserbitu je o dost levnejsi :)) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Petr Seliger" > To: "Twibright Ronja" > Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 8:59 PM > Subject: Re: [Ronja] Koupe 100Mbit optopojitka > > > >>Jo mel, za 75 tisic. >> >> >>>Nemel by nekdo na prodej 100 Mbitovy optopojitko ?? >>> >> >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Ronja mailing list >>Ronja na lists.pointless.net >>http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja na lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > !DSPAM:12,45294ba28481511820273! > > > From clock at twibright.com Sun Oct 8 21:07:18 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2006 22:07:18 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] non-existing link in installations database In-Reply-To: <200610081258.06015.ladmanj@volny.cz> References: <200610081258.06015.ladmanj@volny.cz> Message-ID: <20061008200718.GA22067@kestrel.twibright.com> On Sun, Oct 08, 2006 at 12:58:05PM +0200, Jakub Ladman wrote: > The installation displayed at this image > (http://images.twibright.com/images/ronja/installations/czech/prague/barrandov/bar2.jpg), > was removed many months ago, because at the Holyn? side, we was unable to fix > it sufficiently. The entire wooden roof was moving. Was it old or new house? Do you have a picture of the roof? Was the Ronja anchored into the wooden roof? > Also a reason to connect this one familly house via ronja has disappeared - > there was plan to connect it via second ronja to Networ node at Velka ohrada, > but owner of Networ node has abandoned this idea. And wi-fi is sufficient for > two or three computers in this house. > > At this time, these pipes are reworked to spider and installed between > Barrandov1 and Wladows node, but not succesfully aimed, due to my full > employment at work and my health issues. If you manage to aim them, tell :) CL< > > Jakub Ladman > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From clock at twibright.com Sun Oct 8 21:33:29 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2006 22:33:29 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Testpoints In-Reply-To: <4528DB52.4030703@o2.pl> References: <4528DB52.4030703@o2.pl> Message-ID: <20061008203328.GA30726@kestrel.twibright.com> On Sun, Oct 08, 2006 at 01:04:50PM +0200, Bartosz Kolodziejczak wrote: > > > > > On Fri, Oct 06, 2006 at 02:05:18PM +0200, Bartosz Kolodziejczak wrote: > > > >> Hi Clock > >> > >> Well, my voltages at P101 are 11,29 - 11,33 (varies piece to piece), and > >> P106 5,36-5,41. > >> > > > > How much is on P110? > > > > CL< > > > It's 11,95 V. Other testpoints are ok, except P101 and P106. Thanks, fixed. CL< > > Crush > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From petr.cipis at tiscali.cz Sun Oct 8 21:49:15 2006 From: petr.cipis at tiscali.cz (Cipis) Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2006 22:49:15 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Koupe 100Mbit optopojitka References: <000601c6eb09$96a708c0$f2464d3e@homec911b8ae22> <1160333969.45294a91c2e97@desitka.sh.cvut.cz><001a01c6eb0c$7c7a90e0$f2464d3e@homec911b8ae22> <452950BF.1090309@hkfree.org> Message-ID: <001a01c6eb1b$37f671a0$5046a8c0@cipis.net> Ale to je st?le drazs? nez uv?den?ch 75 tis. Srnka mluvil "o dost levnejsi", tak bych rad vedel, kde se to da sehnat. Cipis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kendy" To: "Twibright Ronja" Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 9:25 PM Subject: Re: [Ronja] Koupe 100Mbit optopojitka > Ale jen na 200m > http://wifi.aspa.cz/zbozi.php?detail=18864 > > > Ostatni napr. na 500m > http://wifi.aspa.cz/zbozi.php?detail=18866 > te stoji > 120 bez dane > > A vzhledem k tomu co mi bylo sdeleno, tak seligrova 100mbit verze maka > na ca 700m, takze to drahy neni... > > -- > Kendy > HKfree > > > Pavel Srnka napsal(a): > >> prehnany,, profi reseni od laserbitu je o dost levnejsi :)) >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Petr Seliger" >> To: "Twibright Ronja" >> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 8:59 PM >> Subject: Re: [Ronja] Koupe 100Mbit optopojitka >> >> >> >>>Jo mel, za 75 tisic. >>> >>> >>>>Nemel by nekdo na prodej 100 Mbitovy optopojitko ?? >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Ronja mailing list >>>Ronja na lists.pointless.net >>>http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Ronja mailing list >> Ronja na lists.pointless.net >> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja >> >> !DSPAM:12,45294ba28481511820273! >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja na lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From srnkap at extranetplus.cz Mon Oct 9 06:34:43 2006 From: srnkap at extranetplus.cz (Pavel Srnka) Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 07:34:43 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Koupe 100Mbit optopojitka References: <000601c6eb09$96a708c0$f2464d3e@homec911b8ae22><1160333969.45294a91c2e97@desitka.sh.cvut.cz><001a01c6eb0c$7c7a90e0$f2464d3e@homec911b8ae22> <002301c6eb0e$daeb48c0$5046a8c0@cipis.net> Message-ID: <000a01c6eb64$a04ac730$f2464d3e@homec911b8ae22> no na levi ho maj za 65 s dani,, a mohlo by to bejt asi i levnejsi,, zalezi na cenovy kategorii co mas... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cipis" To: "Twibright Ronja" Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 9:20 PM Subject: Re: [Ronja] Koupe 100Mbit optopojitka > ??? > mohl bys prosim dat odkazy, kde se daji koupit 100Mbit laserbit o dost > levneji nez 75 tisic? > > > Cipis > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Pavel Srnka" > To: "Twibright Ronja" > Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 9:03 PM > Subject: Re: [Ronja] Koupe 100Mbit optopojitka > > >> prehnany,, profi reseni od laserbitu je o dost levnejsi :)) >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Petr Seliger" >> To: "Twibright Ronja" >> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 8:59 PM >> Subject: Re: [Ronja] Koupe 100Mbit optopojitka >> >> >>> Jo mel, za 75 tisic. >>> >>>> Nemel by nekdo na prodej 100 Mbitovy optopojitko ?? >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Ronja mailing list >>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net >>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Ronja mailing list >> Ronja na lists.pointless.net >> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja na lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From srnkap at extranetplus.cz Mon Oct 9 06:37:05 2006 From: srnkap at extranetplus.cz (Pavel Srnka) Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 07:37:05 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Koupe 100Mbit optopojitka References: <000601c6eb09$96a708c0$f2464d3e@homec911b8ae22> <1160333969.45294a91c2e97@desitka.sh.cvut.cz><001a01c6eb0c$7c7a90e0$f2464d3e@homec911b8ae22> <452950BF.1090309@hkfree.org> Message-ID: <001301c6eb64$f52ea690$f2464d3e@homec911b8ae22> no na 700m, ale spoj na 350u bude i za lehci mlhy dost nestabilni predpokladam, nerkuli ze mam pocit, ze kdosi z bejvaly alphawave prodaval 100mbitovy cusadery snad pod 50taky,, ale jejich stranyk uz nak delsi dobu nefungujou :( ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kendy" To: "Twibright Ronja" Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 9:25 PM Subject: Re: [Ronja] Koupe 100Mbit optopojitka > Ale jen na 200m > http://wifi.aspa.cz/zbozi.php?detail=18864 > > > Ostatni napr. na 500m > http://wifi.aspa.cz/zbozi.php?detail=18866 > te stoji > 120 bez dane > > A vzhledem k tomu co mi bylo sdeleno, tak seligrova 100mbit verze maka > na ca 700m, takze to drahy neni... > > -- > Kendy > HKfree > > > Pavel Srnka napsal(a): > >> prehnany,, profi reseni od laserbitu je o dost levnejsi :)) >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Petr Seliger" >> To: "Twibright Ronja" >> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 8:59 PM >> Subject: Re: [Ronja] Koupe 100Mbit optopojitka >> >> >> >>>Jo mel, za 75 tisic. >>> >>> >>>>Nemel by nekdo na prodej 100 Mbitovy optopojitko ?? >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Ronja mailing list >>>Ronja na lists.pointless.net >>>http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Ronja mailing list >> Ronja na lists.pointless.net >> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja >> >> !DSPAM:12,45294ba28481511820273! >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja na lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From srnkap at extranetplus.cz Mon Oct 9 06:39:12 2006 From: srnkap at extranetplus.cz (Pavel Srnka) Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 07:39:12 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Koupe 100Mbit optopojitka References: <000601c6eb09$96a708c0$f2464d3e@homec911b8ae22> <1160333969.45294a91c2e97@desitka.sh.cvut.cz><001a01c6eb0c$7c7a90e0$f2464d3e@homec911b8ae22><452950BF.1090309@hkfree.org> <001a01c6eb1b$37f671a0$5046a8c0@cipis.net> Message-ID: <002201c6eb65$408dd8e0$f2464d3e@homec911b8ae22> jak rikam levi profi laserbit, kluci z alphawave udajne davaj 100mbitovy crusadery okolo 50,, jeden takovej sem videl tady v usti v provozu,, ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cipis" To: "Twibright Ronja" Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 10:49 PM Subject: Re: [Ronja] Koupe 100Mbit optopojitka Ale to je st?le drazs? nez uv?den?ch 75 tis. Srnka mluvil "o dost levnejsi", tak bych rad vedel, kde se to da sehnat. Cipis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kendy" To: "Twibright Ronja" Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 9:25 PM Subject: Re: [Ronja] Koupe 100Mbit optopojitka > Ale jen na 200m > http://wifi.aspa.cz/zbozi.php?detail=18864 > > > Ostatni napr. na 500m > http://wifi.aspa.cz/zbozi.php?detail=18866 > te stoji > 120 bez dane > > A vzhledem k tomu co mi bylo sdeleno, tak seligrova 100mbit verze maka > na ca 700m, takze to drahy neni... > > -- > Kendy > HKfree > > > Pavel Srnka napsal(a): > >> prehnany,, profi reseni od laserbitu je o dost levnejsi :)) >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Petr Seliger" >> To: "Twibright Ronja" >> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 8:59 PM >> Subject: Re: [Ronja] Koupe 100Mbit optopojitka >> >> >> >>>Jo mel, za 75 tisic. >>> >>> >>>>Nemel by nekdo na prodej 100 Mbitovy optopojitko ?? >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Ronja mailing list >>>Ronja na lists.pointless.net >>>http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Ronja mailing list >> Ronja na lists.pointless.net >> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja >> >> !DSPAM:12,45294ba28481511820273! >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja na lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja _______________________________________________ Ronja mailing list Ronja na lists.pointless.net http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From kendy at hkfree.org Mon Oct 9 06:41:20 2006 From: kendy at hkfree.org (Kendy) Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2006 07:41:20 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Koupe 100Mbit optopojitka In-Reply-To: <000a01c6eb64$a04ac730$f2464d3e@homec911b8ae22> References: <000601c6eb09$96a708c0$f2464d3e@homec911b8ae22><1160333969.45294a91c2e97@desitka.sh.cvut.cz><001a01c6eb0c$7c7a90e0$f2464d3e@homec911b8ae22> <002301c6eb0e$daeb48c0$5046a8c0@cipis.net> <000a01c6eb64$a04ac730$f2464d3e@homec911b8ae22> Message-ID: <4529E100.9000502@hkfree.org> Cena sedi, taky vidim za 65 s dph. Furt je to ale jen 200m verze... Pavel Srnka napsal(a): > no na levi ho maj za 65 s dani,, a mohlo by to bejt asi i levnejsi,, zalezi > na cenovy kategorii co mas... > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Cipis" > To: "Twibright Ronja" > Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 9:20 PM > Subject: Re: [Ronja] Koupe 100Mbit optopojitka > > > >>??? >>mohl bys prosim dat odkazy, kde se daji koupit 100Mbit laserbit o dost >>levneji nez 75 tisic? >> >> >>Cipis >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Pavel Srnka" >>To: "Twibright Ronja" >>Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 9:03 PM >>Subject: Re: [Ronja] Koupe 100Mbit optopojitka >> >> >> >>>prehnany,, profi reseni od laserbitu je o dost levnejsi :)) >>> >>> >>>----- Original Message ----- >>>From: "Petr Seliger" >>>To: "Twibright Ronja" >>>Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 8:59 PM >>>Subject: Re: [Ronja] Koupe 100Mbit optopojitka >>> >>> >>> >>>>Jo mel, za 75 tisic. >>>> >>>> >>>>>Nemel by nekdo na prodej 100 Mbitovy optopojitko ?? >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>Ronja mailing list >>>>Ronja na lists.pointless.net >>>>http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Ronja mailing list >>>Ronja na lists.pointless.net >>>http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Ronja mailing list >>Ronja na lists.pointless.net >>http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja na lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > !DSPAM:12,4529df998481105619041! > > > From seligr at sh.cvut.cz Mon Oct 9 07:50:32 2006 From: seligr at sh.cvut.cz (Petr Seliger) Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 08:50:32 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Koupe 100Mbit optopojitka In-Reply-To: <452950BF.1090309@hkfree.org> References: <000601c6eb09$96a708c0$f2464d3e@homec911b8ae22> <1160333969.45294a91c2e97@desitka.sh.cvut.cz> <001a01c6eb0c$7c7a90e0$f2464d3e@homec911b8ae22> <452950BF.1090309@hkfree.org> Message-ID: <1160376632.4529f138d5f22@desitka.sh.cvut.cz> Cituji z emailu od Kendy : > Ale jen na 200m > http://wifi.aspa.cz/zbozi.php?detail=18864 > > > Ostatni napr. na 500m > http://wifi.aspa.cz/zbozi.php?detail=18866 > te stoji > 120 bez dane > > A vzhledem k tomu co mi bylo sdeleno, tak seligrova 100mbit verze maka > na ca 700m, takze to drahy neni... > Jedlicka prehani, podle vypoctu a prvnich mereni by to melo jet s rezervou na cca 500m. Tech 75tisic plati za laserbit a pokud se bavime tady tak ceny uvadejte s dani nebo patricnym komentarem. Nicmene jak rikal vyvojar mikrovlnek, tak za tyhle prachy se uz da zakopat kabel. From seligr at sh.cvut.cz Mon Oct 9 07:58:50 2006 From: seligr at sh.cvut.cz (Petr Seliger) Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 08:58:50 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Koupe 100Mbit optopojitka In-Reply-To: <002201c6eb65$408dd8e0$f2464d3e@homec911b8ae22> References: <000601c6eb09$96a708c0$f2464d3e@homec911b8ae22> <1160333969.45294a91c2e97@desitka.sh.cvut.cz><001a01c6eb0c$7c7a90e0$f2464d3e@homec911b8ae22><452950BF.1090309@hkfree.org> <001a01c6eb1b$37f671a0$5046a8c0@cipis.net> <002201c6eb65$408dd8e0$f2464d3e@homec911b8ae22> Message-ID: <1160377130.4529f32a9f5dd@desitka.sh.cvut.cz> Akorat ten cenovy rozdil je proti kvalite provedeni a servisu zanetbatelny. On ten laserbit taky neni nic extra. By spis bylo zajimave dovazet optiky z ruska. Zdaji se mit velmi vyhodny pomer cena/kvalita. > jak rikam levi profi laserbit, kluci z alphawave udajne davaj 100mbitovy > crusadery okolo 50,, jeden takovej sem videl tady v usti v provozu,, > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Cipis" > To: "Twibright Ronja" > Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 10:49 PM > Subject: Re: [Ronja] Koupe 100Mbit optopojitka > > > Ale to je st?le drazs? nez uv?den?ch 75 tis. > Srnka mluvil "o dost levnejsi", tak bych rad vedel, kde se to da sehnat. > > Cipis > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kendy" > To: "Twibright Ronja" > Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 9:25 PM > Subject: Re: [Ronja] Koupe 100Mbit optopojitka > > > > Ale jen na 200m > > http://wifi.aspa.cz/zbozi.php?detail=18864 > > > > > > Ostatni napr. na 500m > > http://wifi.aspa.cz/zbozi.php?detail=18866 > > te stoji > 120 bez dane > > > > A vzhledem k tomu co mi bylo sdeleno, tak seligrova 100mbit verze maka > > na ca 700m, takze to drahy neni... > > > > -- > > Kendy > > HKfree > > > > > > Pavel Srnka napsal(a): > > > >> prehnany,, profi reseni od laserbitu je o dost levnejsi :)) > >> > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Petr Seliger" > >> To: "Twibright Ronja" > >> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 8:59 PM > >> Subject: Re: [Ronja] Koupe 100Mbit optopojitka > >> > >> > >> > >>>Jo mel, za 75 tisic. > >>> > >>> > >>>>Nemel by nekdo na prodej 100 Mbitovy optopojitko ?? > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>_______________________________________________ > >>>Ronja mailing list > >>>Ronja at lists.pointless.net > >>>http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Ronja mailing list > >> Ronja at lists.pointless.net > >> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > >> > >> !DSPAM:12,45294ba28481511820273! > >> > >> > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ronja mailing list > > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > From clock at twibright.com Mon Oct 9 07:45:59 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 08:45:59 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Koupe 100Mbit optopojitka In-Reply-To: <452950BF.1090309@hkfree.org> References: <000601c6eb09$96a708c0$f2464d3e@homec911b8ae22> <1160333969.45294a91c2e97@desitka.sh.cvut.cz> <001a01c6eb0c$7c7a90e0$f2464d3e@homec911b8ae22> <452950BF.1090309@hkfree.org> Message-ID: <20061009064559.GA9307@kestrel.twibright.com> On Sun, Oct 08, 2006 at 09:25:51PM +0200, Kendy wrote: > Ale jen na 200m > http://wifi.aspa.cz/zbozi.php?detail=18864 > > > Ostatni napr. na 500m > http://wifi.aspa.cz/zbozi.php?detail=18866 > te stoji > 120 bez dane > > A vzhledem k tomu co mi bylo sdeleno, tak seligrova 100mbit verze maka > na ca 700m, takze to drahy neni... Are there any sources published for this? CL< > > -- > Kendy > HKfree > > > Pavel Srnka napsal(a): > > > prehnany,, profi reseni od laserbitu je o dost levnejsi :)) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Petr Seliger" > > To: "Twibright Ronja" > > Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 8:59 PM > > Subject: Re: [Ronja] Koupe 100Mbit optopojitka > > > > > > > >>Jo mel, za 75 tisic. > >> > >> > >>>Nemel by nekdo na prodej 100 Mbitovy optopojitko ?? > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>Ronja mailing list > >>Ronja at lists.pointless.net > >>http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ronja mailing list > > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > > > !DSPAM:12,45294ba28481511820273! > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From petr.cipis at tiscali.cz Mon Oct 9 16:40:56 2006 From: petr.cipis at tiscali.cz (Cipis) Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 17:40:56 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Koupe 100Mbit optopojitka Message-ID: <004e01c6ebb9$4f9e7660$5046a8c0@cipis.net> trat, reka, trat, papirna - nezakopes :D Cipis >-- P?vodn? zpr?va -- >Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 08:50:32 +0200 >From: Petr Seliger >To: Twibright Ronja >Subject: Re: [Ronja] Koupe 100Mbit optopojitka >Reply-To: Twibright Ronja > > >Cituji z emailu od Kendy : > >> Ale jen na 200m >> http://wifi.aspa.cz/zbozi.php?detail=18864 >> >> >> Ostatni napr. na 500m >> http://wifi.aspa.cz/zbozi.php?detail=18866 >> te stoji > 120 bez dane >> >> A vzhledem k tomu co mi bylo sdeleno, tak seligrova 100mbit verze maka > >> na ca 700m, takze to drahy neni... >> > >Jedlicka prehani, podle vypoctu a prvnich mereni by to melo jet s rezervou >na >cca 500m. >Tech 75tisic plati za laserbit a pokud se bavime tady tak ceny uvadejte s >dani >nebo patricnym komentarem. Nicmene jak rikal vyvojar mikrovlnek, tak za tyhle >prachy se uz da zakopat kabel. > >_______________________________________________ >Ronja mailing list >Ronja na lists.pointless.net >http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja ______________________________________ Superrychl? internet od TISCALI na 3 m?s?ce za pouh? 3 K?! http://sluzby.tiscali.cz/domacnosti/adsl/adsl-512-promo.php?r=pb From petr.cipis at tiscali.cz Mon Oct 9 16:40:15 2006 From: petr.cipis at tiscali.cz (Cipis) Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 17:40:15 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Koupe 100Mbit optopojitka Message-ID: <004a01c6ebb9$38f5d570$5046a8c0@cipis.net> http://www.bgslevi.cz/produkt_detail.php?id=15722 vid?m zde cenu 63 330,- bez DPH, tj. je to v?c ne? 75 000 tak?e je?t? jednou - kde maj? laserbity v?razn? levn?ji? Cipis >-- P?vodn? zpr?va -- >From: "Pavel Srnka" >To: "Twibright Ronja" >Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 07:34:43 +0200 >Subject: Re: [Ronja] Koupe 100Mbit optopojitka >Reply-To: Twibright Ronja > > >no na levi ho maj za 65 s dani,, a mohlo by to bejt asi i levnejsi,, zalezi > >na cenovy kategorii co mas... > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Cipis" >To: "Twibright Ronja" >Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 9:20 PM >Subject: Re: [Ronja] Koupe 100Mbit optopojitka > > >> ??? >> mohl bys prosim dat odkazy, kde se daji koupit 100Mbit laserbit o dost >> levneji nez 75 tisic? >> >> >> Cipis >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Pavel Srnka" >> To: "Twibright Ronja" >> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 9:03 PM >> Subject: Re: [Ronja] Koupe 100Mbit optopojitka >> >> >>> prehnany,, profi reseni od laserbitu je o dost levnejsi :)) >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Petr Seliger" >>> To: "Twibright Ronja" >>> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 8:59 PM >>> Subject: Re: [Ronja] Koupe 100Mbit optopojitka >>> >>> >>>> Jo mel, za 75 tisic. >>>> >>>>> Nemel by nekdo na prodej 100 Mbitovy optopojitko ?? >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Ronja mailing list >>>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net >>>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Ronja mailing list >>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net >>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Ronja mailing list >> Ronja na lists.pointless.net >> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > >_______________________________________________ >Ronja mailing list >Ronja na lists.pointless.net >http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja ______________________________________ Superrychl? internet od TISCALI na 3 m?s?ce za pouh? 3 K?! http://sluzby.tiscali.cz/domacnosti/adsl/adsl-512-promo.php?r=pb From bartosz_kolodziejczak at o2.pl Mon Oct 9 16:58:36 2006 From: bartosz_kolodziejczak at o2.pl (Bartosz Kolodziejczak) Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2006 17:58:36 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Ronja Digest, Vol 42, Issue 8 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <452A71AC.5020800@o2.pl> > On Sun, Oct 08, 2006 at 01:04:50PM +0200, Bartosz Kolodziejczak wrote: > >>> On Fri, Oct 06, 2006 at 02:05:18PM +0200, Bartosz Kolodziejczak wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Hi Clock >>>> >>>> Well, my voltages at P101 are 11,29 - 11,33 (varies piece to piece), and >>>> P106 5,36-5,41. >>>> >>>> >>> How much is on P110? >>> >>> CL< >>> >>> >> It's 11,95 V. Other testpoints are ok, except P101 and P106. >> > > Thanks, fixed. > > CL< > Do you think reference ranges was too narrow? Crush >> Crush >> From srnkap at extranetplus.cz Mon Oct 9 19:02:20 2006 From: srnkap at extranetplus.cz (Pavel Srnka) Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 20:02:20 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Koupe 100Mbit optopojitka References: <004a01c6ebb9$38f5d570$5046a8c0@cipis.net> Message-ID: <003901c6ebcd$10f3bd30$f2464d3e@homec911b8ae22> maji je na levi, ale tu cenu sem uvadel jako dealerskou... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cipis" To: "Twibright Ronja" Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 5:40 PM Subject: Re: [Ronja] Koupe 100Mbit optopojitka http://www.bgslevi.cz/produkt_detail.php?id=15722 vid?m zde cenu 63 330,- bez DPH, tj. je to v?c ne? 75 000 tak?e je?t? jednou - kde maj? laserbity v?razn? levn?ji? Cipis >-- P?vodn? zpr?va -- >From: "Pavel Srnka" >To: "Twibright Ronja" >Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 07:34:43 +0200 >Subject: Re: [Ronja] Koupe 100Mbit optopojitka >Reply-To: Twibright Ronja > > >no na levi ho maj za 65 s dani,, a mohlo by to bejt asi i levnejsi,, zalezi > >na cenovy kategorii co mas... > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Cipis" >To: "Twibright Ronja" >Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 9:20 PM >Subject: Re: [Ronja] Koupe 100Mbit optopojitka > > >> ??? >> mohl bys prosim dat odkazy, kde se daji koupit 100Mbit laserbit o dost >> levneji nez 75 tisic? >> >> >> Cipis >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Pavel Srnka" >> To: "Twibright Ronja" >> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 9:03 PM >> Subject: Re: [Ronja] Koupe 100Mbit optopojitka >> >> >>> prehnany,, profi reseni od laserbitu je o dost levnejsi :)) >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Petr Seliger" >>> To: "Twibright Ronja" >>> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 8:59 PM >>> Subject: Re: [Ronja] Koupe 100Mbit optopojitka >>> >>> >>>> Jo mel, za 75 tisic. >>>> >>>>> Nemel by nekdo na prodej 100 Mbitovy optopojitko ?? >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Ronja mailing list >>>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net >>>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Ronja mailing list >>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net >>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Ronja mailing list >> Ronja na lists.pointless.net >> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > >_______________________________________________ >Ronja mailing list >Ronja na lists.pointless.net >http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja ______________________________________ Superrychl? internet od TISCALI na 3 m?s?ce za pouh? 3 K?! http://sluzby.tiscali.cz/domacnosti/adsl/adsl-512-promo.php?r=pb _______________________________________________ Ronja mailing list Ronja na lists.pointless.net http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From petr.cipis at tiscali.cz Mon Oct 9 19:08:43 2006 From: petr.cipis at tiscali.cz (Cipis) Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 20:08:43 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Koupe 100Mbit optopojitka References: <004a01c6ebb9$38f5d570$5046a8c0@cipis.net> <003901c6ebcd$10f3bd30$f2464d3e@homec911b8ae22> Message-ID: <001801c6ebcd$f529d3e0$5046a8c0@cipis.net> no neuvadel, minimalne v prvnim prispevku o dealerske cene nebylo ani slovo k cemu to je? uvadel jsi, ze se da sehnat daleko levneji, jenze jak to vypada, tak asi ne pro kazdeho nebo jsi schopen to za tu daleko levnejsi cenu prodat komukoliv, kdo bude mit zajem? Cipis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pavel Srnka" To: "Twibright Ronja" Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 8:02 PM Subject: Re: [Ronja] Koupe 100Mbit optopojitka maji je na levi, ale tu cenu sem uvadel jako dealerskou... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cipis" To: "Twibright Ronja" Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 5:40 PM Subject: Re: [Ronja] Koupe 100Mbit optopojitka http://www.bgslevi.cz/produkt_detail.php?id=15722 vid?m zde cenu 63 330,- bez DPH, tj. je to v?c ne? 75 000 tak?e je?t? jednou - kde maj? laserbity v?razn? levn?ji? Cipis >-- P?vodn? zpr?va -- >From: "Pavel Srnka" >To: "Twibright Ronja" >Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 07:34:43 +0200 >Subject: Re: [Ronja] Koupe 100Mbit optopojitka >Reply-To: Twibright Ronja > > >no na levi ho maj za 65 s dani,, a mohlo by to bejt asi i levnejsi,, zalezi > >na cenovy kategorii co mas... > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Cipis" >To: "Twibright Ronja" >Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 9:20 PM >Subject: Re: [Ronja] Koupe 100Mbit optopojitka > > >> ??? >> mohl bys prosim dat odkazy, kde se daji koupit 100Mbit laserbit o dost >> levneji nez 75 tisic? >> >> >> Cipis >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Pavel Srnka" >> To: "Twibright Ronja" >> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 9:03 PM >> Subject: Re: [Ronja] Koupe 100Mbit optopojitka >> >> >>> prehnany,, profi reseni od laserbitu je o dost levnejsi :)) >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Petr Seliger" >>> To: "Twibright Ronja" >>> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 8:59 PM >>> Subject: Re: [Ronja] Koupe 100Mbit optopojitka >>> >>> >>>> Jo mel, za 75 tisic. >>>> >>>>> Nemel by nekdo na prodej 100 Mbitovy optopojitko ?? >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Ronja mailing list >>>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net >>>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Ronja mailing list >>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net >>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Ronja mailing list >> Ronja na lists.pointless.net >> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > >_______________________________________________ >Ronja mailing list >Ronja na lists.pointless.net >http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja ______________________________________ Superrychl? internet od TISCALI na 3 m?s?ce za pouh? 3 K?! http://sluzby.tiscali.cz/domacnosti/adsl/adsl-512-promo.php?r=pb _______________________________________________ Ronja mailing list Ronja na lists.pointless.net http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja _______________________________________________ Ronja mailing list Ronja na lists.pointless.net http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From kubajz at kbx.cz Mon Oct 9 19:13:44 2006 From: kubajz at kbx.cz (Jakub Sykora) Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2006 20:13:44 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Koupe 100Mbit optopojitka In-Reply-To: <001801c6ebcd$f529d3e0$5046a8c0@cipis.net> References: <004a01c6ebb9$38f5d570$5046a8c0@cipis.net> <003901c6ebcd$10f3bd30$f2464d3e@homec911b8ae22> <001801c6ebcd$f529d3e0$5046a8c0@cipis.net> Message-ID: <452A9158.8020006@kbx.cz> Ja bych se vesel tak do tech 69999Kc vc. DPH a jsem platce... K Cipis wrote: > no neuvadel, minimalne v prvnim prispevku o dealerske cene nebylo ani slovo > k cemu to je? uvadel jsi, ze se da sehnat daleko levneji, jenze jak to > vypada, tak asi ne pro kazdeho > nebo jsi schopen to za tu daleko levnejsi cenu prodat komukoliv, kdo bude > mit zajem? > > Cipis > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Pavel Srnka" > To: "Twibright Ronja" > Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 8:02 PM > Subject: Re: [Ronja] Koupe 100Mbit optopojitka > > > maji je na levi, ale tu cenu sem uvadel jako dealerskou... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Cipis" > To: "Twibright Ronja" > Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 5:40 PM > Subject: Re: [Ronja] Koupe 100Mbit optopojitka > > > http://www.bgslevi.cz/produkt_detail.php?id=15722 > vid?m zde cenu 63 330,- bez DPH, tj. je to v?c ne? 75 000 > tak?e je?t? jednou - kde maj? laserbity v?razn? levn?ji? > > Cipis > > >> -- P?vodn? zpr?va -- >> From: "Pavel Srnka" >> To: "Twibright Ronja" >> Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 07:34:43 +0200 >> Subject: Re: [Ronja] Koupe 100Mbit optopojitka >> Reply-To: Twibright Ronja >> >> >> no na levi ho maj za 65 s dani,, a mohlo by to bejt asi i levnejsi,, zalezi >> >> na cenovy kategorii co mas... >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Cipis" >> To: "Twibright Ronja" >> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 9:20 PM >> Subject: Re: [Ronja] Koupe 100Mbit optopojitka >> >> >>> ??? >>> mohl bys prosim dat odkazy, kde se daji koupit 100Mbit laserbit o dost >>> levneji nez 75 tisic? >>> >>> >>> Cipis >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Pavel Srnka" >>> To: "Twibright Ronja" >>> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 9:03 PM >>> Subject: Re: [Ronja] Koupe 100Mbit optopojitka >>> >>> >>>> prehnany,, profi reseni od laserbitu je o dost levnejsi :)) >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Petr Seliger" >>>> To: "Twibright Ronja" >>>> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 8:59 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [Ronja] Koupe 100Mbit optopojitka >>>> >>>> >>>>> Jo mel, za 75 tisic. >>>>> >>>>>> Nemel by nekdo na prodej 100 Mbitovy optopojitko ?? >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Ronja mailing list >>>>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net >>>>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Ronja mailing list >>>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net >>>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Ronja mailing list >>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net >>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Ronja mailing list >> Ronja na lists.pointless.net >> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > > ______________________________________ > Superrychl? internet od TISCALI na 3 m?s?ce za pouh? 3 K?! > > http://sluzby.tiscali.cz/domacnosti/adsl/adsl-512-promo.php?r=pb > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja na lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja na lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja na lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja -- Jakub S?kora email: kubajz na kbx.cz <') ICQ: 68976632 ( =- mobil: +420 777 594 201 '' From clock at twibright.com Mon Oct 9 20:09:22 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 21:09:22 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] IPv6 ronja.twibright.com Message-ID: <20061009190921.GA3337@kestrel.twibright.com> The ronja.twibright.com server used to have IPv6 address, but that was from a temporary range. Recently it stopped working and people complained that ronja.twibright.com is not accessible when they have IPv6 configured. I fixed that - removed the AAAA DNS entries. CL< From clock at twibright.com Mon Oct 9 20:28:16 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 21:28:16 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Koupe 100Mbit optopojitka In-Reply-To: <452A9158.8020006@kbx.cz> References: <004a01c6ebb9$38f5d570$5046a8c0@cipis.net> <003901c6ebcd$10f3bd30$f2464d3e@homec911b8ae22> <001801c6ebcd$f529d3e0$5046a8c0@cipis.net> <452A9158.8020006@kbx.cz> Message-ID: <20061009192816.GA7070@kestrel.twibright.com> On Mon, Oct 09, 2006 at 08:13:44PM +0200, Jakub Sykora wrote: > Ja bych se vesel tak do tech 69999Kc vc. DPH a jsem platce... These discussions are about as relevant here as discussion about Windows discount prices on a Linux mailing list - please keep in mind there are other people especially English speaking who are not interested in details of discount prices of particular proprietary FSO device at Czech retailers. CL< > > K > > Cipis wrote: > > no neuvadel, minimalne v prvnim prispevku o dealerske cene nebylo ani slovo > > k cemu to je? uvadel jsi, ze se da sehnat daleko levneji, jenze jak to > > vypada, tak asi ne pro kazdeho > > nebo jsi schopen to za tu daleko levnejsi cenu prodat komukoliv, kdo bude > > mit zajem? > > > > Cipis > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Pavel Srnka" > > To: "Twibright Ronja" > > Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 8:02 PM > > Subject: Re: [Ronja] Koupe 100Mbit optopojitka > > > > > > maji je na levi, ale tu cenu sem uvadel jako dealerskou... > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Cipis" > > To: "Twibright Ronja" > > Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 5:40 PM > > Subject: Re: [Ronja] Koupe 100Mbit optopojitka > > > > > > http://www.bgslevi.cz/produkt_detail.php?id=15722 > > vid?m zde cenu 63 330,- bez DPH, tj. je to v?c ne? 75 000 > > tak?e je?t? jednou - kde maj? laserbity v?razn? levn?ji? > > > > Cipis > > > > > >> -- P?vodn? zpr?va -- > >> From: "Pavel Srnka" > >> To: "Twibright Ronja" > >> Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 07:34:43 +0200 > >> Subject: Re: [Ronja] Koupe 100Mbit optopojitka > >> Reply-To: Twibright Ronja > >> > >> > >> no na levi ho maj za 65 s dani,, a mohlo by to bejt asi i levnejsi,, zalezi > >> > >> na cenovy kategorii co mas... > >> > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Cipis" > >> To: "Twibright Ronja" > >> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 9:20 PM > >> Subject: Re: [Ronja] Koupe 100Mbit optopojitka > >> > >> > >>> ??? > >>> mohl bys prosim dat odkazy, kde se daji koupit 100Mbit laserbit o dost > >>> levneji nez 75 tisic? > >>> > >>> > >>> Cipis > >>> > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> From: "Pavel Srnka" > >>> To: "Twibright Ronja" > >>> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 9:03 PM > >>> Subject: Re: [Ronja] Koupe 100Mbit optopojitka > >>> > >>> > >>>> prehnany,, profi reseni od laserbitu je o dost levnejsi :)) > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>> From: "Petr Seliger" > >>>> To: "Twibright Ronja" > >>>> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 8:59 PM > >>>> Subject: Re: [Ronja] Koupe 100Mbit optopojitka > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> Jo mel, za 75 tisic. > >>>>> > >>>>>> Nemel by nekdo na prodej 100 Mbitovy optopojitko ?? > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> Ronja mailing list > >>>>> Ronja at lists.pointless.net > >>>>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Ronja mailing list > >>>> Ronja at lists.pointless.net > >>>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Ronja mailing list > >>> Ronja at lists.pointless.net > >>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Ronja mailing list > >> Ronja at lists.pointless.net > >> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > > > > > ______________________________________ > > Superrychl? internet od TISCALI na 3 m?s?ce za pouh? 3 K?! > > > > http://sluzby.tiscali.cz/domacnosti/adsl/adsl-512-promo.php?r=pb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ronja mailing list > > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ronja mailing list > > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ronja mailing list > > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > -- > Jakub S?kora > email: kubajz at kbx.cz <') > ICQ: 68976632 ( =- > mobil: +420 777 594 201 '' > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From clock at twibright.com Mon Oct 9 20:28:43 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 21:28:43 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Ronja Digest, Vol 42, Issue 8 In-Reply-To: <452A71AC.5020800@o2.pl> References: <452A71AC.5020800@o2.pl> Message-ID: <20061009192843.GB7070@kestrel.twibright.com> On Mon, Oct 09, 2006 at 05:58:36PM +0200, Bartosz Kolodziejczak wrote: [...] > >> It's 11,95 V. Other testpoints are ok, except P101 and P106. > >> > > > > Thanks, fixed. > > > > CL< > > > Do you think reference ranges was too narrow? Yes. CL< > > Crush > >> Crush From kubajz at kbx.cz Mon Oct 9 20:44:13 2006 From: kubajz at kbx.cz (Jakub Sykora) Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2006 21:44:13 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Koupe 100Mbit optopojitka In-Reply-To: <20061009192816.GA7070@kestrel.twibright.com> References: <004a01c6ebb9$38f5d570$5046a8c0@cipis.net> <003901c6ebcd$10f3bd30$f2464d3e@homec911b8ae22> <001801c6ebcd$f529d3e0$5046a8c0@cipis.net> <452A9158.8020006@kbx.cz> <20061009192816.GA7070@kestrel.twibright.com> Message-ID: <452AA68D.9010006@kbx.cz> Sorry, I will respect this. I only wanted to help, but you are absolutely right. K Karel Kulhavy wrote: > On Mon, Oct 09, 2006 at 08:13:44PM +0200, Jakub Sykora wrote: >> Ja bych se vesel tak do tech 69999Kc vc. DPH a jsem platce... > > These discussions are about as relevant here as discussion about Windows > discount prices on a Linux mailing list - please keep in mind there are other > people especially English speaking who are not interested in details of > discount prices of particular proprietary FSO device at Czech retailers. > > CL< > >> K >> >> Cipis wrote: >>> no neuvadel, minimalne v prvnim prispevku o dealerske cene nebylo ani slovo >>> k cemu to je? uvadel jsi, ze se da sehnat daleko levneji, jenze jak to >>> vypada, tak asi ne pro kazdeho >>> nebo jsi schopen to za tu daleko levnejsi cenu prodat komukoliv, kdo bude >>> mit zajem? >>> >>> Cipis >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Pavel Srnka" >>> To: "Twibright Ronja" >>> Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 8:02 PM >>> Subject: Re: [Ronja] Koupe 100Mbit optopojitka >>> >>> >>> maji je na levi, ale tu cenu sem uvadel jako dealerskou... >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Cipis" >>> To: "Twibright Ronja" >>> Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 5:40 PM >>> Subject: Re: [Ronja] Koupe 100Mbit optopojitka >>> >>> >>> http://www.bgslevi.cz/produkt_detail.php?id=15722 >>> vid?m zde cenu 63 330,- bez DPH, tj. je to v?c ne? 75 000 >>> tak?e je?t? jednou - kde maj? laserbity v?razn? levn?ji? >>> >>> Cipis >>> >>> >>>> -- P?vodn? zpr?va -- >>>> From: "Pavel Srnka" >>>> To: "Twibright Ronja" >>>> Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 07:34:43 +0200 >>>> Subject: Re: [Ronja] Koupe 100Mbit optopojitka >>>> Reply-To: Twibright Ronja >>>> >>>> >>>> no na levi ho maj za 65 s dani,, a mohlo by to bejt asi i levnejsi,, zalezi >>>> >>>> na cenovy kategorii co mas... >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Cipis" >>>> To: "Twibright Ronja" >>>> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 9:20 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [Ronja] Koupe 100Mbit optopojitka >>>> >>>> >>>>> ??? >>>>> mohl bys prosim dat odkazy, kde se daji koupit 100Mbit laserbit o dost >>>>> levneji nez 75 tisic? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Cipis >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Pavel Srnka" >>>>> To: "Twibright Ronja" >>>>> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 9:03 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [Ronja] Koupe 100Mbit optopojitka >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> prehnany,, profi reseni od laserbitu je o dost levnejsi :)) >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Petr Seliger" >>>>>> To: "Twibright Ronja" >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 8:59 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [Ronja] Koupe 100Mbit optopojitka >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Jo mel, za 75 tisic. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Nemel by nekdo na prodej 100 Mbitovy optopojitko ?? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Ronja mailing list >>>>>>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net >>>>>>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Ronja mailing list >>>>>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net >>>>>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Ronja mailing list >>>>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net >>>>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Ronja mailing list >>>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net >>>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja >>> >>> ______________________________________ >>> Superrychl? internet od TISCALI na 3 m?s?ce za pouh? 3 K?! >>> >>> http://sluzby.tiscali.cz/domacnosti/adsl/adsl-512-promo.php?r=pb >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Ronja mailing list >>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net >>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Ronja mailing list >>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net >>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Ronja mailing list >>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net >>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja >> -- >> Jakub S?kora >> email: kubajz na kbx.cz <') >> ICQ: 68976632 ( =- >> mobil: +420 777 594 201 '' >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Ronja mailing list >> Ronja na lists.pointless.net >> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja na lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja -- Jakub S?kora email: kubajz na kbx.cz <') ICQ: 68976632 ( =- mobil: +420 777 594 201 '' From hnizdil at gmail.com Mon Oct 9 23:42:59 2006 From: hnizdil at gmail.com (Honza Hnizdil) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 00:42:59 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Nebulus test points don't match. Please help me. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: == ENGLISH VERSION == Hi all! I need help from you. This is my third attempt to build ronja nebulus. I followed exactly nebulus building guide (http://ronja.twibright.com/nebulus/building.php), but test points don't match:( During the building i found some differences between nebulus schematics (http://ronja.twibright.com/schematics/nebulus.png) and the component placing sequence. They are: - In the sequence there is mentioned R15, but in the schematics it serves only as "tuning" resistor. So it's not connected into circuit. - In the schematics are drawn R16 and R18 resistors, but there aren't mentioned in the sequence. So that i was quite confused. I decided to follow the sequence and add missing resistors according to the schematics. Now my nebulus is built exactly according to the schematics. But, as i said above, my test points still don't match. I checked component placements and connections three times. Then checked components polarity, transistors, 74AC04's connections, everything, but didn't find a solution. I even tried to change R9 according to the "R9 tuning" table. Test points still dramatically differ. My test points values are here: http://belakos.web.klfree.net/ronja/images/08_test_points.png You can find other pictures of my nebulus here: http://belakos.web.klfree.net/ronja/ (There is overall view, overall labelled view and some detailed views.) I would appreciate any help from you, that can help get my nebulus to work. Thanks in advance. Honza Hnizdil == CESKA VERZE == Ahoj vsichni! Potrebuju od vas pomoc. Tohle je muj treti pokus o stavbu ronji nebulus. Nasledoval jsem presne pokyny v pruvodci stavbou (http://ronja.twibright.com/nebulus/building.php), ale testovaci body nesedi:( Behem stavby jsem narazil na par nesrovnalosti ve schematu (http://ronja.twibright.com/schematics/nebulus.png) a postupu umistovani soucastek. Jsou to: - V postupu je zminen R15, ktery vsak slouzi jen k "nastavovani" hodnoty R9, tudiz neni zapojen primo do obvodu. - Ve schematu jsou znazorneny odpory R16 a R18, ale nejsou zmineny v postupu. Byl jsem z toho trochu zmateny. Rozhodl jsem se, ze budu nasledovat postup a chybejici odpory pridam. Muj nebulus je ted postaven presne podle schematu, ale testovaci body stale nesedi. Zkontroloval jsem trikrat vsechny soucastky a jejich zapojeni. Potom jsem zkontroloval polaritu soucastek, tranzistory, propojeni 74AC04ek, vsechno, ale reseni jsem nenasel. Take jsem zkousel menit odpor R9 podle "ladici" tabulky. Testovaci body se stale hodne lisi. Hodnoty mych testovacich bodu jsou zde: http://belakos.web.klfree.net/ronja/images/08_test_points.png Ostatni obrazky jsou k nalezeni tady: http://belakos.web.klfree.net/ronja/ (Je tam celkovy pohled i s popisky a par detailnich pohledu.) Ocenim jakoukoli pomoc, ktera mi pomuze rochodit muj nebulus. Diky predem. Honza Hnizdil From clock at twibright.com Tue Oct 10 17:44:09 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 18:44:09 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Nebulus test points don't match. Please help me. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20061010164409.GA30324@kestrel.twibright.com> On Tue, Oct 10, 2006 at 12:42:59AM +0200, Honza Hnizdil wrote: > == ENGLISH VERSION == > > Hi all! > > I need help from you. This is my third attempt to build ronja nebulus. > I followed exactly nebulus building guide > (http://ronja.twibright.com/nebulus/building.php), but test points > don't match:( > > During the building i found some differences between nebulus > schematics (http://ronja.twibright.com/schematics/nebulus.png) and the > component placing sequence. They are: > - In the sequence there is mentioned R15, but in the schematics it > serves only as "tuning" resistor. So it's not connected into circuit. > - In the schematics are drawn R16 and R18 resistors, but there aren't > mentioned in the sequence. > So that i was quite confused. > > I decided to follow the sequence and add missing resistors according > to the schematics. Now my nebulus is built exactly according to the > schematics. But, as i said above, my test points still don't match. > > I checked component placements and connections three times. Then > checked components polarity, transistors, 74AC04's connections, > everything, but didn't find a solution. I even tried to change R9 > according to the "R9 tuning" table. Test points still dramatically > differ. > > My test points values are here: > http://belakos.web.klfree.net/ronja/images/08_test_points.png > You can find other pictures of my nebulus here: > http://belakos.web.klfree.net/ronja/ > (There is overall view, overall labelled view and some detailed views.) > > I would appreciate any help from you, that can help get my nebulus to work. Sorry, the testpoints were wrong. P2, P4 were calculated -0.8V instead of +0.8V. P3 was wrong from this too because depends on P2 and P4. I updated the P6 and P7 in state without signal, too, according to your measurement. When I wrote them I didn't realize the regulation is fully open because of no current going through the LED and therefore the supply voltage is more than in normal operation. Your testpoints seem to be OK. The Nebulus will probably work when it was checked 3 times :) CL< > > Thanks in advance. > > Honza Hnizdil > > == CESKA VERZE == > > Ahoj vsichni! > > Potrebuju od vas pomoc. Tohle je muj treti pokus o stavbu ronji > nebulus. Nasledoval jsem presne pokyny v pruvodci stavbou > (http://ronja.twibright.com/nebulus/building.php), ale testovaci body > nesedi:( > > Behem stavby jsem narazil na par nesrovnalosti ve schematu > (http://ronja.twibright.com/schematics/nebulus.png) a postupu > umistovani soucastek. Jsou to: > - V postupu je zminen R15, ktery vsak slouzi jen k "nastavovani" > hodnoty R9, tudiz neni zapojen primo do obvodu. > - Ve schematu jsou znazorneny odpory R16 a R18, ale nejsou zmineny v postupu. > Byl jsem z toho trochu zmateny. > > Rozhodl jsem se, ze budu nasledovat postup a chybejici odpory pridam. > Muj nebulus je ted postaven presne podle schematu, ale testovaci body > stale nesedi. > > Zkontroloval jsem trikrat vsechny soucastky a jejich zapojeni. Potom > jsem zkontroloval polaritu soucastek, tranzistory, propojeni 74AC04ek, > vsechno, ale reseni jsem nenasel. Take jsem zkousel menit odpor R9 > podle "ladici" tabulky. Testovaci body se stale hodne lisi. > > Hodnoty mych testovacich bodu jsou zde: > http://belakos.web.klfree.net/ronja/images/08_test_points.png > Ostatni obrazky jsou k nalezeni tady: http://belakos.web.klfree.net/ronja/ > (Je tam celkovy pohled i s popisky a par detailnich pohledu.) > > Ocenim jakoukoli pomoc, ktera mi pomuze rochodit muj nebulus. > > Diky predem. > > Honza Hnizdil > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From hnizdil at gmail.com Tue Oct 10 20:28:17 2006 From: hnizdil at gmail.com (Honza Hnizdil) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 21:28:17 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Nebulus test points don't match. Please help me. In-Reply-To: <20061010164409.GA30324@kestrel.twibright.com> References: <20061010164409.GA30324@kestrel.twibright.com> Message-ID: Oh nice! I'm very happy to hear this from you. Thanks a lot for reply. Honza On 10/10/06, Karel Kulhavy wrote: > On Tue, Oct 10, 2006 at 12:42:59AM +0200, Honza Hnizdil wrote: > > == ENGLISH VERSION == > > > > Hi all! > > > > I need help from you. This is my third attempt to build ronja nebulus. > > I followed exactly nebulus building guide > > (http://ronja.twibright.com/nebulus/building.php), but test points > > don't match:( > > > > During the building i found some differences between nebulus > > schematics (http://ronja.twibright.com/schematics/nebulus.png) and the > > component placing sequence. They are: > > - In the sequence there is mentioned R15, but in the schematics it > > serves only as "tuning" resistor. So it's not connected into circuit. > > - In the schematics are drawn R16 and R18 resistors, but there aren't > > mentioned in the sequence. > > So that i was quite confused. > > > > I decided to follow the sequence and add missing resistors according > > to the schematics. Now my nebulus is built exactly according to the > > schematics. But, as i said above, my test points still don't match. > > > > I checked component placements and connections three times. Then > > checked components polarity, transistors, 74AC04's connections, > > everything, but didn't find a solution. I even tried to change R9 > > according to the "R9 tuning" table. Test points still dramatically > > differ. > > > > My test points values are here: > > http://belakos.web.klfree.net/ronja/images/08_test_points.png > > You can find other pictures of my nebulus here: > > http://belakos.web.klfree.net/ronja/ > > (There is overall view, overall labelled view and some detailed views.) > > > > I would appreciate any help from you, that can help get my nebulus to work. > > Sorry, the testpoints were wrong. > P2, P4 were calculated -0.8V instead of +0.8V. P3 was wrong from this too > because depends on P2 and P4. > > I updated the P6 and P7 in state without signal, too, according to your > measurement. When I wrote them I didn't realize the regulation is fully open > because of no current going through the LED and therefore the supply voltage is > more than in normal operation. > > Your testpoints seem to be OK. The Nebulus will probably work when it > was checked 3 times :) > > CL< > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > Honza Hnizdil > > > > == CESKA VERZE == > > > > Ahoj vsichni! > > > > Potrebuju od vas pomoc. Tohle je muj treti pokus o stavbu ronji > > nebulus. Nasledoval jsem presne pokyny v pruvodci stavbou > > (http://ronja.twibright.com/nebulus/building.php), ale testovaci body > > nesedi:( > > > > Behem stavby jsem narazil na par nesrovnalosti ve schematu > > (http://ronja.twibright.com/schematics/nebulus.png) a postupu > > umistovani soucastek. Jsou to: > > - V postupu je zminen R15, ktery vsak slouzi jen k "nastavovani" > > hodnoty R9, tudiz neni zapojen primo do obvodu. > > - Ve schematu jsou znazorneny odpory R16 a R18, ale nejsou zmineny v postupu. > > Byl jsem z toho trochu zmateny. > > > > Rozhodl jsem se, ze budu nasledovat postup a chybejici odpory pridam. > > Muj nebulus je ted postaven presne podle schematu, ale testovaci body > > stale nesedi. > > > > Zkontroloval jsem trikrat vsechny soucastky a jejich zapojeni. Potom > > jsem zkontroloval polaritu soucastek, tranzistory, propojeni 74AC04ek, > > vsechno, ale reseni jsem nenasel. Take jsem zkousel menit odpor R9 > > podle "ladici" tabulky. Testovaci body se stale hodne lisi. > > > > Hodnoty mych testovacich bodu jsou zde: > > http://belakos.web.klfree.net/ronja/images/08_test_points.png > > Ostatni obrazky jsou k nalezeni tady: http://belakos.web.klfree.net/ronja/ > > (Je tam celkovy pohled i s popisky a par detailnich pohledu.) > > > > Ocenim jakoukoli pomoc, ktera mi pomuze rochodit muj nebulus. > > > > Diky predem. > > > > Honza Hnizdil > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ronja mailing list > > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > From hnizdil at gmail.com Tue Oct 10 20:38:05 2006 From: hnizdil at gmail.com (Honza Hnizdil) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 21:38:05 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Nebulus test points don't match. Please help me. In-Reply-To: <20061010164409.GA30324@kestrel.twibright.com> References: <20061010164409.GA30324@kestrel.twibright.com> Message-ID: Please don't think I'm pedant, but i have checked nebulus.png few minutes ago, and P2, P3, P4 are still P7-*.*V. I think there should be the plus sign. Rest seems to be ok. Honza On 10/10/06, Karel Kulhavy wrote: > On Tue, Oct 10, 2006 at 12:42:59AM +0200, Honza Hnizdil wrote: > > == ENGLISH VERSION == > > > > Hi all! > > > > I need help from you. This is my third attempt to build ronja nebulus. > > I followed exactly nebulus building guide > > (http://ronja.twibright.com/nebulus/building.php), but test points > > don't match:( > > > > During the building i found some differences between nebulus > > schematics (http://ronja.twibright.com/schematics/nebulus.png) and the > > component placing sequence. They are: > > - In the sequence there is mentioned R15, but in the schematics it > > serves only as "tuning" resistor. So it's not connected into circuit. > > - In the schematics are drawn R16 and R18 resistors, but there aren't > > mentioned in the sequence. > > So that i was quite confused. > > > > I decided to follow the sequence and add missing resistors according > > to the schematics. Now my nebulus is built exactly according to the > > schematics. But, as i said above, my test points still don't match. > > > > I checked component placements and connections three times. Then > > checked components polarity, transistors, 74AC04's connections, > > everything, but didn't find a solution. I even tried to change R9 > > according to the "R9 tuning" table. Test points still dramatically > > differ. > > > > My test points values are here: > > http://belakos.web.klfree.net/ronja/images/08_test_points.png > > You can find other pictures of my nebulus here: > > http://belakos.web.klfree.net/ronja/ > > (There is overall view, overall labelled view and some detailed views.) > > > > I would appreciate any help from you, that can help get my nebulus to work. > > Sorry, the testpoints were wrong. > P2, P4 were calculated -0.8V instead of +0.8V. P3 was wrong from this too > because depends on P2 and P4. > > I updated the P6 and P7 in state without signal, too, according to your > measurement. When I wrote them I didn't realize the regulation is fully open > because of no current going through the LED and therefore the supply voltage is > more than in normal operation. > > Your testpoints seem to be OK. The Nebulus will probably work when it > was checked 3 times :) > > CL< > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > Honza Hnizdil > > > > == CESKA VERZE == > > > > Ahoj vsichni! > > > > Potrebuju od vas pomoc. Tohle je muj treti pokus o stavbu ronji > > nebulus. Nasledoval jsem presne pokyny v pruvodci stavbou > > (http://ronja.twibright.com/nebulus/building.php), ale testovaci body > > nesedi:( > > > > Behem stavby jsem narazil na par nesrovnalosti ve schematu > > (http://ronja.twibright.com/schematics/nebulus.png) a postupu > > umistovani soucastek. Jsou to: > > - V postupu je zminen R15, ktery vsak slouzi jen k "nastavovani" > > hodnoty R9, tudiz neni zapojen primo do obvodu. > > - Ve schematu jsou znazorneny odpory R16 a R18, ale nejsou zmineny v postupu. > > Byl jsem z toho trochu zmateny. > > > > Rozhodl jsem se, ze budu nasledovat postup a chybejici odpory pridam. > > Muj nebulus je ted postaven presne podle schematu, ale testovaci body > > stale nesedi. > > > > Zkontroloval jsem trikrat vsechny soucastky a jejich zapojeni. Potom > > jsem zkontroloval polaritu soucastek, tranzistory, propojeni 74AC04ek, > > vsechno, ale reseni jsem nenasel. Take jsem zkousel menit odpor R9 > > podle "ladici" tabulky. Testovaci body se stale hodne lisi. > > > > Hodnoty mych testovacich bodu jsou zde: > > http://belakos.web.klfree.net/ronja/images/08_test_points.png > > Ostatni obrazky jsou k nalezeni tady: http://belakos.web.klfree.net/ronja/ > > (Je tam celkovy pohled i s popisky a par detailnich pohledu.) > > > > Ocenim jakoukoli pomoc, ktera mi pomuze rochodit muj nebulus. > > > > Diky predem. > > > > Honza Hnizdil > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ronja mailing list > > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > From hnizdil at gmail.com Wed Oct 11 00:54:25 2006 From: hnizdil at gmail.com (Honza Hnizdil) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 01:54:25 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Twister2 PCB and AutoLEDs Message-ID: == ENGLISH == Hi! Has anyone tried to build twister2? I'm curious if i can make twister2 PCB at home using UV sensitive cuprexit, foil and laser printer. Is it possible? Aren't paths too smal to make PCB on my own? Or the only way how to make twister2 PCB is to submit it to the factory? And second question. How can I obtain HPWT-BD00-F4000's? Don't have them someone at home in drawer? I know about Ryston, but minimum amount is 120 pieces:/ Actually, how much they cost in Ryston? Thanks a lot. Have a nice day. Honza == CESKY == Ahoj. Zkousel uz nekdo stavet twistra2? Zajimalo by me, jestli se tistak na nej da vyrobit doma pomoci UV cuprexitu, osvitu, vyvolani a vyleptani? Nejsou cesty moc titerny na to, aby se to povedlo? Nebo jedinej zpusob jak ho ziskat je zadat ho do tovarny? A druha otazka. Daji se nekde od nekoho sehnat HPWT-BD00-F4000 LEDky? Obavam se, ze jedina moznost je koupit jich 120 v Rystonu:/ Kolik tam vubec stojej? Diky moc. Mejte se. Honza From clock at twibright.com Wed Oct 11 07:03:19 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 08:03:19 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Twister2 PCB and AutoLEDs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20061011060319.GA1207@kestrel.twibright.com> On Wed, Oct 11, 2006 at 01:54:25AM +0200, Honza Hnizdil wrote: > == ENGLISH == > Hi! > > Has anyone tried to build twister2? I'm curious if i can make twister2 > PCB at home using UV sensitive cuprexit, foil and laser printer. Is it > possible? Aren't paths too smal to make PCB on my own? Or the only way You need through-plating. Some SMD components could even maybe short-circuit without the green soldermask, I don't know. To speed up population you need the silkscreen. > how to make twister2 PCB is to submit it to the factory? I would go a factory because it saves a lot of time and potential troubles. ronjashop.com unfortunately doesn't seem to sell Twister2 yet. > > And second question. How can I obtain HPWT-BD00-F4000's? Don't have > them someone at home in drawer? I know about Ryston, but minimum Ondrej Tesar at least used to have them in quantities. CL< > amount is 120 pieces:/ Actually, how much they cost in Ryston? > > Thanks a lot. Have a nice day. > > Honza > > == CESKY == > Ahoj. > > Zkousel uz nekdo stavet twistra2? Zajimalo by me, jestli se tistak na > nej da vyrobit doma pomoci UV cuprexitu, osvitu, vyvolani a vyleptani? > Nejsou cesty moc titerny na to, aby se to povedlo? Nebo jedinej zpusob > jak ho ziskat je zadat ho do tovarny? > > A druha otazka. Daji se nekde od nekoho sehnat HPWT-BD00-F4000 LEDky? > Obavam se, ze jedina moznost je koupit jich 120 v Rystonu:/ Kolik tam > vubec stojej? > > Diky moc. Mejte se. > > Honza > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From clock at twibright.com Wed Oct 11 07:11:40 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 08:11:40 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Nebulus test points don't match. Please help me. In-Reply-To: References: <20061010164409.GA30324@kestrel.twibright.com> Message-ID: <20061011061140.GA12110@kestrel.twibright.com> On Tue, Oct 10, 2006 at 09:38:05PM +0200, Honza Hnizdil wrote: > Please don't think I'm pedant, but i have checked nebulus.png few > minutes ago, and P2, P3, P4 are still P7-*.*V. I think there should be > the plus sign. Rest seems to be ok. Hehe sorry I am so stupid I fixed only in the first column and forgot the second one :) - fixed now. CL< > > Honza > > On 10/10/06, Karel Kulhavy wrote: > > On Tue, Oct 10, 2006 at 12:42:59AM +0200, Honza Hnizdil wrote: > > > == ENGLISH VERSION == > > > > > > Hi all! > > > > > > I need help from you. This is my third attempt to build ronja nebulus. > > > I followed exactly nebulus building guide > > > (http://ronja.twibright.com/nebulus/building.php), but test points > > > don't match:( > > > > > > During the building i found some differences between nebulus > > > schematics (http://ronja.twibright.com/schematics/nebulus.png) and the > > > component placing sequence. They are: > > > - In the sequence there is mentioned R15, but in the schematics it > > > serves only as "tuning" resistor. So it's not connected into circuit. > > > - In the schematics are drawn R16 and R18 resistors, but there aren't > > > mentioned in the sequence. > > > So that i was quite confused. > > > > > > I decided to follow the sequence and add missing resistors according > > > to the schematics. Now my nebulus is built exactly according to the > > > schematics. But, as i said above, my test points still don't match. > > > > > > I checked component placements and connections three times. Then > > > checked components polarity, transistors, 74AC04's connections, > > > everything, but didn't find a solution. I even tried to change R9 > > > according to the "R9 tuning" table. Test points still dramatically > > > differ. > > > > > > My test points values are here: > > > http://belakos.web.klfree.net/ronja/images/08_test_points.png > > > You can find other pictures of my nebulus here: > > > http://belakos.web.klfree.net/ronja/ > > > (There is overall view, overall labelled view and some detailed views.) > > > > > > I would appreciate any help from you, that can help get my nebulus to work. > > > > Sorry, the testpoints were wrong. > > P2, P4 were calculated -0.8V instead of +0.8V. P3 was wrong from this too > > because depends on P2 and P4. > > > > I updated the P6 and P7 in state without signal, too, according to your > > measurement. When I wrote them I didn't realize the regulation is fully open > > because of no current going through the LED and therefore the supply voltage is > > more than in normal operation. > > > > Your testpoints seem to be OK. The Nebulus will probably work when it > > was checked 3 times :) > > > > CL< > > > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > > > Honza Hnizdil > > > > > > == CESKA VERZE == > > > > > > Ahoj vsichni! > > > > > > Potrebuju od vas pomoc. Tohle je muj treti pokus o stavbu ronji > > > nebulus. Nasledoval jsem presne pokyny v pruvodci stavbou > > > (http://ronja.twibright.com/nebulus/building.php), ale testovaci body > > > nesedi:( > > > > > > Behem stavby jsem narazil na par nesrovnalosti ve schematu > > > (http://ronja.twibright.com/schematics/nebulus.png) a postupu > > > umistovani soucastek. Jsou to: > > > - V postupu je zminen R15, ktery vsak slouzi jen k "nastavovani" > > > hodnoty R9, tudiz neni zapojen primo do obvodu. > > > - Ve schematu jsou znazorneny odpory R16 a R18, ale nejsou zmineny v postupu. > > > Byl jsem z toho trochu zmateny. > > > > > > Rozhodl jsem se, ze budu nasledovat postup a chybejici odpory pridam. > > > Muj nebulus je ted postaven presne podle schematu, ale testovaci body > > > stale nesedi. > > > > > > Zkontroloval jsem trikrat vsechny soucastky a jejich zapojeni. Potom > > > jsem zkontroloval polaritu soucastek, tranzistory, propojeni 74AC04ek, > > > vsechno, ale reseni jsem nenasel. Take jsem zkousel menit odpor R9 > > > podle "ladici" tabulky. Testovaci body se stale hodne lisi. > > > > > > Hodnoty mych testovacich bodu jsou zde: > > > http://belakos.web.klfree.net/ronja/images/08_test_points.png > > > Ostatni obrazky jsou k nalezeni tady: http://belakos.web.klfree.net/ronja/ > > > (Je tam celkovy pohled i s popisky a par detailnich pohledu.) > > > > > > Ocenim jakoukoli pomoc, ktera mi pomuze rochodit muj nebulus. > > > > > > Diky predem. > > > > > > Honza Hnizdil > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Ronja mailing list > > > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ronja mailing list > > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From clock at twibright.com Wed Oct 11 19:46:08 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 20:46:08 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] how can I get board PCB of ronja project In-Reply-To: <20061011131554.8816.qmail@web55012.mail.re4.yahoo.com> References: <20061011131554.8816.qmail@web55012.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20061011184608.GA30737@kestrel.twibright.com> On Wed, Oct 11, 2006 at 06:15:54AM -0700, yatna supriatna wrote: > please given to me information, how to get PCB, led, and software of ronja > because I need it, to research in my campus, Exactly at Ibnu Khaldun of > University from indonesia after I see information from ronja, I'm interested > but I don't understand to do it eventhought after I see information form > ronja itself at WWW.TWIBRIGHT.COM ronjashop.com - they sell Twister and Ronja TX. LED Diodes are Ondrej Tesar (should be on the list, otherwise boza2 at volny.cz). CL< > > one more, I askfor how to get it ? if I have to buy, where did I get > it because all of ronja really I don't understand...! and I had > lookfor all tools of ronja in indonesia; NO TOOLs of ronja > > thank's full on your help. I'm waiting your new information. > > > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail. From cd930 at centrum.cz Thu Oct 12 07:19:00 2006 From: cd930 at centrum.cz (-=RYS=-) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 08:19:00 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] 100Mbps FSO Message-ID: <200610120819.9426@centrum.cz> Panove, rekl bych, ze FSO ktere ma min 30dB/1km stoji vzdy vice jak 130000,-. To ze nekdo prodava preostrene 200m pojitko za 70k jako 700m pojitko neznamena, ze Vam to bude dobre chodi....treba prave do utlumu 30dB/1km. -=RYS=- From info at martenvijn.nl Thu Oct 12 19:48:48 2006 From: info at martenvijn.nl (Marten) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 20:48:48 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] workshop in Leiden, The Netherlands In-Reply-To: <20060907134933.GA13930@kestrel.twibright.com> References: <20060907134933.GA13930@kestrel.twibright.com> Message-ID: <1160678928.871.15.camel@workstation.martenvijn.nl> Hi all, A posting for Dutch people on this list, This weekend we are going to have workshop in Leiden. program: http://opticarch.wifisoft.org/msg00005.html For people who are interested can contact us. There are one or two places open. In spring (March) we are having a second workshop. kind regards, Marten From clock at twibright.com Thu Oct 12 20:56:21 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 21:56:21 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] workshop in Leiden, The Netherlands In-Reply-To: <1160678928.871.15.camel@workstation.martenvijn.nl> References: <20060907134933.GA13930@kestrel.twibright.com> <1160678928.871.15.camel@workstation.martenvijn.nl> Message-ID: <20061012195621.GA26310@kestrel.twibright.com> On Thu, Oct 12, 2006 at 08:48:48PM +0200, Marten wrote: > > Hi all, > > A posting for Dutch people on this list, > > This weekend we are going to have workshop in Leiden. > > program: > > http://opticarch.wifisoft.org/msg00005.html "Needed skills: good soldering skills" Some people reported they never did anything with electronics and they made Ronja and it worked on the first try. What do you think are the actual soldering skills necessary to make Ronja? No skills? Basic skills? Good skills? " the main source of noise in Centurion (and, as far as I can tell, Ronja) " (http://opticarch.wifisoft.org/msg00046.html) - what is Centurion? CL< From clock at twibright.com Thu Oct 12 21:03:22 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 22:03:22 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] 2220 capacitors -> 1206 Message-ID: <20061012200322.GA9658@kestrel.twibright.com> JDB or whoever, did anyone try to solder 1206 capacitors instead of the 2220 ones in Twister2? I wonder if it's possible to do it without a change of the landpatterns. CL< From jdb at lartmaker.nl Thu Oct 12 21:14:26 2006 From: jdb at lartmaker.nl (J.D. Bakker) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 22:14:26 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] workshop in Leiden, The Netherlands In-Reply-To: <20061012195621.GA26310@kestrel.twibright.com> References: <20060907134933.GA13930@kestrel.twibright.com> <1160678928.871.15.camel@workstation.martenvijn.nl> <20061012195621.GA26310@kestrel.twibright.com> Message-ID: >" the main source of noise in Centurion (and, as far as I can tell, Ronja) " >(http://opticarch.wifisoft.org/msg00046.html) >- what is Centurion? The development name of the 100Mbps system. I needed a quick name for a presentation. Since a Centurion used to command 100 men... JDB. -- LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files. http://www.lartmaker.nl/ From jdb at lartmaker.nl Thu Oct 12 21:15:10 2006 From: jdb at lartmaker.nl (J.D. Bakker) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 22:15:10 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] 2220 capacitors -> 1206 In-Reply-To: <20061012200322.GA9658@kestrel.twibright.com> References: <20061012200322.GA9658@kestrel.twibright.com> Message-ID: >JDB or whoever, did anyone try to solder 1206 capacitors instead of the 2220 >ones in Twister2? I wonder if it's possible to do it without a change of the >landpatterns. I'll know after this weekend. You've seen the announcement of the workshop ;-) JDB. -- LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files. http://www.lartmaker.nl/ From info at martenvijn.nl Thu Oct 12 21:35:02 2006 From: info at martenvijn.nl (Marten) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 22:35:02 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] workshop in Leiden, The Netherlands In-Reply-To: <20061012195621.GA26310@kestrel.twibright.com> References: <20060907134933.GA13930@kestrel.twibright.com> <1160678928.871.15.camel@workstation.martenvijn.nl> <20061012195621.GA26310@kestrel.twibright.com> Message-ID: <1160685302.871.31.camel@workstation.martenvijn.nl> On Thu, 2006-10-12 at 21:56 +0200, Karel Kulhavy wrote: > > http://opticarch.wifisoft.org/msg00005.html > > "Needed skills: good soldering skills" > Some people reported they never did anything with electronics and they made > Ronja and it worked on the first try. Great ! > What do you think are the actual > soldering skills necessary to make Ronja? I can tell on monday. I have never build one. > No skills? Basic skills? Good skills? > IHMO, skilled people are faster and we plan to do build 5 working links in one weekend. And working with skilled people increases the chance of succes. Later we plan to have workshop in March and in a larger program of the Wireless Community Camp, July 2007. See our initial setup on wifisoft.org. And yes, we can use need some helping hands that have at least some experience. There will be more time than there in this weekend. kind regard, Marten From rktenneti at gmail.com Fri Oct 13 06:44:22 2006 From: rktenneti at gmail.com (Ravi Kumar Tenneti) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 11:14:22 +0530 Subject: [Ronja] workshop in Leiden, The Netherlands In-Reply-To: <1160678928.871.15.camel@workstation.martenvijn.nl> References: <20060907134933.GA13930@kestrel.twibright.com> <1160678928.871.15.camel@workstation.martenvijn.nl> Message-ID: <5526f5a10610122244m16db0c4eobaa56218ace8c8e3@mail.gmail.com> On 10/13/06, Marten wrote: > > > Hi all, > > A posting for Dutch people on this list, > > This weekend we are going to have workshop in Leiden. > > program: > > http://opticarch.wifisoft.org/msg00005.html > > > For people who are interested can contact us. There are one or two > places open. Hi! all, This is Ravi Kumar from India and I am following about Ronja since last 6 months. As I will not be able to make to this seminar, I request you to upload the entire session (video file) to something like "youtube" so that everybody can see that. This is only a request. Regards Ravi In spring (March) we are having a second workshop. > > > kind regards, > > > Marten > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20061013/efd11853/attachment.html From rktenneti at gmail.com Fri Oct 13 06:44:22 2006 From: rktenneti at gmail.com (Ravi Kumar Tenneti) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 11:14:22 +0530 Subject: [Ronja] workshop in Leiden, The Netherlands In-Reply-To: <1160678928.871.15.camel@workstation.martenvijn.nl> References: <20060907134933.GA13930@kestrel.twibright.com> <1160678928.871.15.camel@workstation.martenvijn.nl> Message-ID: <5526f5a10610122244m16db0c4eobaa56218ace8c8e3@mail.gmail.com> On 10/13/06, Marten wrote: > > > Hi all, > > A posting for Dutch people on this list, > > This weekend we are going to have workshop in Leiden. > > program: > > http://opticarch.wifisoft.org/msg00005.html > > > For people who are interested can contact us. There are one or two > places open. Hi! all, This is Ravi Kumar from India and I am following about Ronja since last 6 months. As I will not be able to make to this seminar, I request you to upload the entire session (video file) to something like "youtube" so that everybody can see that. This is only a request. Regards Ravi In spring (March) we are having a second workshop. > > > kind regards, > > > Marten > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20061013/efd11853/attachment-0001.html From clock at twibright.com Fri Oct 13 08:44:41 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 09:44:41 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] workshop in Leiden, The Netherlands In-Reply-To: References: <20060907134933.GA13930@kestrel.twibright.com> <1160678928.871.15.camel@workstation.martenvijn.nl> <20061012195621.GA26310@kestrel.twibright.com> Message-ID: <20061013074441.GA24984@kestrel.twibright.com> On Thu, Oct 12, 2006 at 10:14:26PM +0200, J.D. Bakker wrote: > >" the main source of noise in Centurion (and, as far as I can tell, Ronja) " > >(http://opticarch.wifisoft.org/msg00046.html) > >- what is Centurion? > > The development name of the 100Mbps system. > > I needed a quick name for a presentation. Since a Centurion used to > command 100 men... Did you already build a prototype? Does it work? Do you have schematics? CL< > > JDB. > -- > LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files. > http://www.lartmaker.nl/ > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From g.mourits at casema.nl Fri Oct 13 09:42:00 2006 From: g.mourits at casema.nl (G.M. Mourits) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 10:42:00 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] workshop in Leiden, The Netherlands In-Reply-To: <5526f5a10610122244m16db0c4eobaa56218ace8c8e3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <004501c6eea3$75fb4800$c401a8c0@bilbo> _____ From: ronja-bounces+g.mourits=casema.nl at lists.pointless.net [mailto:ronja-bounces+g.mourits=casema.nl at lists.pointless.net] On Behalf Of Ravi Kumar Tenneti Sent: Friday, October 13, 2006 7:44 AM To: Twibright Ronja Subject: Re: [Ronja] workshop in Leiden, The Netherlands On 10/13/06, Marten wrote: Hi all, A posting for Dutch people on this list, This weekend we are going to have workshop in Leiden. program: http://opticarch.wifisoft.org/msg00005.html For people who are interested can contact us. There are one or two places open. Hi! all, This is Ravi Kumar from India and I am following about Ronja since last 6 months. As I will not be able to make to this seminar, I request you to upload the entire session (video file) to something like "youtube" so that everybody can see that. This is only a request. Hi Ravi, We do our best. Like you can see on our website www.wifisoft.org we make it a habit to make lots of foto's doing our thing. For the last BootCamp: http://camp.wifisoft.org/index.php/Presentations. Sorry for some of the Dutch, it looks like Tsjechian. ;-) I'll come back to the list after this weekend... Regards, Gerard Regards Ravi In spring (March) we are having a second workshop. kind regards, Marten _______________________________________________ Ronja mailing list Ronja at lists.pointless.net http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20061013/a7a5f058/attachment-0001.html From jdb at lartmaker.nl Fri Oct 13 10:02:26 2006 From: jdb at lartmaker.nl (J.D. Bakker) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 11:02:26 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] workshop in Leiden, The Netherlands In-Reply-To: <20061013074441.GA24984@kestrel.twibright.com> References: <20060907134933.GA13930@kestrel.twibright.com> <1160678928.871.15.camel@workstation.martenvijn.nl> <20061012195621.GA26310@kestrel.twibright.com> <20061013074441.GA24984@kestrel.twibright.com> Message-ID: >On Thu, Oct 12, 2006 at 10:14:26PM +0200, J.D. Bakker wrote: >> >" the main source of noise in Centurion (and, as far as I can >>tell, Ronja) " >> >(http://opticarch.wifisoft.org/msg00046.html) >> >- what is Centurion? >> >> The development name of the 100Mbps system. >> >> I needed a quick name for a presentation. Since a Centurion used to >> command 100 men... > >Did you already build a prototype? I have designed proto-PCBs for TX (5 variations) and RX (6 variations). I am working on the bit synchronizer, with the digital Ethernet interface waiting for last. > Does it work? I have sent the board designs to Taiwan; last I heard was they are waiting for parts. > Do you have schematics? Sure ;-). Like with the LART, I'd rather not release schematics for systems that are not tested and known to work. 'Release early, release often' doesn't quite apply to hardware, IMHO (due to the cost of generating 'object code'). JDB. -- LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files. http://www.lartmaker.nl/ From hnizdil at gmail.com Sat Oct 14 16:58:12 2006 From: hnizdil at gmail.com (Honza Hnizdil) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 17:58:12 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Metropolis transmitter PCB dimensions Message-ID: Hi! Could anyone tell me, what are dimensions of the Ronja metropolis transmitter PCB? I have tried several times to compile (under gentoo) Gerber viewer to find out, but everytime some kind of error occurs. Never mind. If they are somewhere on the ronja website, then i'm sorry. Thanks in advance. Honza From clock at twibright.com Sat Oct 14 19:36:10 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 20:36:10 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Metropolis transmitter PCB dimensions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20061014183610.GA9179@kestrel.twibright.com> On Sat, Oct 14, 2006 at 05:58:12PM +0200, Honza Hnizdil wrote: > Hi! > > Could anyone tell me, what are dimensions of the Ronja metropolis > transmitter PCB? I have tried several times to compile (under gentoo) > Gerber viewer to find out, but everytime some kind of error occurs. Are you trying to compile from sources or from the gentoo package? On one gentoo machine I just did emerge gerbv and I could view Gerbers. > Never mind. If they are somewhere on the ronja website, then i'm > sorry. They are not - the user doesn't have to know them. But they are I think 92x67 or 91x66. CL< From hnizdil at gmail.com Sat Oct 14 20:41:21 2006 From: hnizdil at gmail.com (Honza Hnizdil) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 21:41:21 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Metropolis transmitter PCB dimensions In-Reply-To: <20061014183610.GA9179@kestrel.twibright.com> References: <20061014183610.GA9179@kestrel.twibright.com> Message-ID: On 10/14/06, Karel Kulhavy wrote: > On Sat, Oct 14, 2006 at 05:58:12PM +0200, Honza Hnizdil wrote: > > Hi! > > > > Could anyone tell me, what are dimensions of the Ronja metropolis > > transmitter PCB? I have tried several times to compile (under gentoo) > > Gerber viewer to find out, but everytime some kind of error occurs. > > Are you trying to compile from sources or from the gentoo package? > On one gentoo machine I just did emerge gerbv and I could view Gerbers. Tried both. Everything compiled without problems, but when I fire up gerbv and try to open any file (for example 'metropolis_transmitter.pcb.output_front.gbr') or even right-click the main window, the program crashes with this error message: [code] belakos at localhost ~ $ gerbv (process:6939): Gdk-CRITICAL (recursed) **: gdk_text_width: assertion `font != NULL' failed aborting... Aborted belakos at localhost ~ $ [/code] But I don't need gerbv desperately, so i'm gonna try it later on. > > > Never mind. If they are somewhere on the ronja website, then i'm > > sorry. > > They are not - the user doesn't have to know them. But they are I think > 92x67 or 91x66. > > CL< Thanks. Honza > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > From g.mourits at casema.nl Sat Oct 14 23:49:30 2006 From: g.mourits at casema.nl (G.M. Mourits) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 00:49:30 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] workshop in Leiden, The Netherlands In-Reply-To: <5526f5a10610122244m16db0c4eobaa56218ace8c8e3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <004101c6efe3$042a1800$c401a8c0@bilbo> Hi! all, This is Ravi Kumar from India and I am following about Ronja since last 6 months. As I will not be able to make to this seminar, I request you to upload the entire session (video file) to something like "youtube" so that everybody can see that. This is only a request. Unfortunely we did not have the time to make a movie of the players of WiFiSoft. ;-) But lots of photos are taken. Next week we will place them on line. Now the question. We are making a 'manual' how to build the Tetrapolis step by step. To do this we use the PCB's of http://k-j.skontorp.net/ronja/rx &tx/Ronja_pcbs.zip. Is there a problem about this regarding the authors rights? Regards, Gerard Regards Ravi In spring (March) we are having a second workshop. kind regards, Marten _______________________________________________ Ronja mailing list Ronja at lists.pointless.net http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20061015/aa501355/attachment.html From seligr at sh.cvut.cz Sun Oct 15 08:53:13 2006 From: seligr at sh.cvut.cz (Petr Seliger) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 09:53:13 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] workshop in Leiden, The Netherlands In-Reply-To: <004101c6efe3$042a1800$c401a8c0@bilbo> References: <004101c6efe3$042a1800$c401a8c0@bilbo> Message-ID: <1160898793.4531e8e91ecb2@desitka.sh.cvut.cz> Cituji z emailu od "G.M. Mourits" : > > Hi! all, > > This is Ravi Kumar from India and I am following about Ronja since last 6 > months. As I will not be able to make to this seminar, I request you to > upload the entire session (video file) to something like "youtube" so that > everybody can see that. This is only a request. > > > > Unfortunely we did not have the time to make a movie of the players of > WiFiSoft. ;-) > > But lots of photos are taken. Next week we will place them on line. > > > > Now the question. We are making a 'manual' how to build the Tetrapolis step > by step. To do this we use the PCB's of http://k-j.skontorp.net/ronja/rx > &tx/Ronja_pcbs.zip. Is > there a problem about this regarding the authors rights? > Heh, best way to deal with this PCB is instanly smash them with hammer at once. You spare lot of time. Without solder mask are hard to solder by reason of incorrect isolation distances and wire thicks. At another hand mystakes in design turns it into powerfull noise generator what interfere with TV several tens meters around. My advice is use official clocks PCB for TX: http://ronja.twibright.com/transmitter/pcb.php and my unofficial for RX: http://wiki.twibright.com/index.php/RxPcbSeligr and http://laser.webpark.cz/download.html but there is not building plans at moment. But its design is simple straightforward and anybody had problems without them yet (over 100 pieces on active duty in CR). Only flaw is you must cut PCB by hand to fit your box prior soldering. For czech people next batch from www.pragoboard.cz will be cut exactly into AH102 metal case. P.Seliger > > Regards, > > > > Gerard > > > > > > > Regards > > Ravi > > > > > > > > > In spring (March) we are having a second workshop. > > > kind regards, > > > Marten > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > > > From clock at twibright.com Sun Oct 15 11:49:28 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 12:49:28 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] workshop in Leiden, The Netherlands In-Reply-To: <1160898793.4531e8e91ecb2@desitka.sh.cvut.cz> References: <004101c6efe3$042a1800$c401a8c0@bilbo> <1160898793.4531e8e91ecb2@desitka.sh.cvut.cz> Message-ID: <20061015104928.GB7267@kestrel.twibright.com> On Sun, Oct 15, 2006 at 09:53:13AM +0200, Petr Seliger wrote: > Cituji z emailu od "G.M. Mourits" : > > > > > Hi! all, > > > > This is Ravi Kumar from India and I am following about Ronja since last 6 > > months. As I will not be able to make to this seminar, I request you to > > upload the entire session (video file) to something like "youtube" so that > > everybody can see that. This is only a request. > > > > > > > > Unfortunely we did not have the time to make a movie of the players of > > WiFiSoft. ;-) > > > > But lots of photos are taken. Next week we will place them on line. > > > > > > > > Now the question. We are making a 'manual' how to build the Tetrapolis step > > by step. To do this we use the PCB's of http://k-j.skontorp.net/ronja/rx > > &tx/Ronja_pcbs.zip. Is > > there a problem about this regarding the authors rights? > > > Heh, best way to deal with this PCB is instanly smash them with hammer at once. > You spare lot of time. Without solder mask are hard to solder by reason of > incorrect isolation distances and wire thicks. At another hand mystakes in > design turns it into powerfull noise generator what interfere with TV several > tens meters around. > My advice is use official clocks PCB for TX: > http://ronja.twibright.com/transmitter/pcb.php > and my unofficial for RX: http://wiki.twibright.com/index.php/RxPcbSeligr and > http://laser.webpark.cz/download.html but there is not building plans at moment. > But its design is simple straightforward and anybody had problems without them > yet (over 100 pieces on active duty in CR). Hehe that sounds like 50 Ronja links with your RX - do you know about ones which are not in the gallery yet? CL< From jdb at lartmaker.nl Sun Oct 15 20:38:07 2006 From: jdb at lartmaker.nl (J.D. Bakker) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 21:38:07 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] workshop in Leiden, The Netherlands In-Reply-To: <1160898793.4531e8e91ecb2@desitka.sh.cvut.cz> References: <004101c6efe3$042a1800$c401a8c0@bilbo> <1160898793.4531e8e91ecb2@desitka.sh.cvut.cz> Message-ID: > > Now the question. We are making a 'manual' how to build the Tetrapolis step >> by step. To do this we use the PCB's of http://k-j.skontorp.net/ronja/rx >> &tx/Ronja_pcbs.zip. Is >> there a problem about this regarding the authors rights? >> >Heh, best way to deal with this PCB is instanly smash them with >hammer at once. That's a rather blunt opinion. >You spare lot of time. Without solder mask are hard to solder by reason of >incorrect isolation distances and wire thicks. The boards have solder mask on both sides (the ones used in Leiden do, anyway). > At another hand mystakes in >design turns it into powerfull noise generator what interfere with TV several >tens meters around. What mistakes would that be ? Apart from some oscillations in the receiver when the photodiode leads were too long I see very little noise output. Could you be more precise (or point to a relevant thread in the list archive ?). JDB. -- LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files. http://www.lartmaker.nl/ From rick at wzoeterwoude.net Mon Oct 16 01:16:09 2006 From: rick at wzoeterwoude.net (Rick van der Zwet) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 02:16:09 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] website and subversion in sync? Message-ID: <4532CF49.3040308@wzoeterwoude.net> Hi, The website for example refers too http://ronja.twibright.com/utils/validate_script, but doesn't seems to exists in http://ronja-svn.wservices.ch/ronja/ronja/trunk/utils/ I cann't find (and fix) this page http://ronja.twibright.com/twister2/tools.php (no closing tags in list) cann't find the link to http://ronja.twibright.com/power_source/ as well. I'm more than willing to fix it (I've already checked out the subversion), but someone has to point me out the way how to do it. Many thanks! Cheerz, /Rick van der Zwet From ladmanj at volny.cz Mon Oct 16 14:17:33 2006 From: ladmanj at volny.cz (Jakub Ladman) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 15:17:33 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] First link with spider Message-ID: <200610161517.33359.ladmanj@volny.cz> A new FSO 668m long testing link with spider interface is working since yesterday. I must make some photos for you, i have none at this time. Link is working good, little packetloss is there, but it appears only if spider is connected to router, when connected to notebook with some new (gigabit) realtek it works absolutely fine with the same cable and same powering (PoE). It seems to be problem with low performance of an old computer with ALI chipset on this router. On the second side is spider connected to cheap old unsophisticated switch. On both sides are 10FD modes autonegotiated. Jakub Ladman PS: Czfree users may look on the map. Link is between Barrandov_1 and Wladows node. From kubajz at kbx.cz Mon Oct 16 14:28:40 2006 From: kubajz at kbx.cz (Jakub Sykora) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 15:28:40 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] First link with spider In-Reply-To: <200610161517.33359.ladmanj@volny.cz> References: <200610161517.33359.ladmanj@volny.cz> Message-ID: <45338908.7080600@kbx.cz> Congratulations :) Jakub Ladman napsal(a): > A new FSO 668m long testing link with spider interface is working since > yesterday. > I must make some photos for you, i have none at this time. > > Link is working good, little packetloss is there, but it appears only if > spider is connected to router, when connected to notebook with some new > (gigabit) realtek it works absolutely fine with the same cable and same > powering (PoE). > It seems to be problem with low performance of an old computer with ALI > chipset on this router. > On the second side is spider connected to cheap old unsophisticated switch. > On both sides are 10FD modes autonegotiated. > > Jakub Ladman > > PS: Czfree users may look on the map. Link is between Barrandov_1 and Wladows > node. > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja na lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja -- Jakub S?kora email: kubajz na kbx.cz <') ICQ: 68976632 ( =- mobil: +420 777 594 201 '' ------------- dal?? ??st --------------- Netextov? p??loha byla odstran?na... Jm?no: kubajz.vcf Typ: text/x-vcard Velikost: 265 bytes Popis: [??dn? popis nen? k dispozici] Url : http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20061016/95346daa/attachment.vcf From clock at twibright.com Mon Oct 16 19:50:12 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 20:50:12 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] First link with spider In-Reply-To: <200610161517.33359.ladmanj@volny.cz> References: <200610161517.33359.ladmanj@volny.cz> Message-ID: <20061016185012.GA25753@kestrel.twibright.com> On Mon, Oct 16, 2006 at 03:17:33PM +0200, Jakub Ladman wrote: > A new FSO 668m long testing link with spider interface is working since > yesterday. Cool. Do you have pictures? Would you mind if I put it into the gallery? CL< > I must make some photos for you, i have none at this time. > > Link is working good, little packetloss is there, but it appears only if > spider is connected to router, when connected to notebook with some new > (gigabit) realtek it works absolutely fine with the same cable and same > powering (PoE). > It seems to be problem with low performance of an old computer with ALI > chipset on this router. > On the second side is spider connected to cheap old unsophisticated switch. > On both sides are 10FD modes autonegotiated. > > Jakub Ladman > > PS: Czfree users may look on the map. Link is between Barrandov_1 and Wladows > node. > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From clock at twibright.com Mon Oct 16 19:35:05 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 20:35:05 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] First link with spider In-Reply-To: <200610161517.33359.ladmanj@volny.cz> References: <200610161517.33359.ladmanj@volny.cz> Message-ID: <20061016183505.GA25455@kestrel.twibright.com> On Mon, Oct 16, 2006 at 03:17:33PM +0200, Jakub Ladman wrote: > A new FSO 668m long testing link with spider interface is working since > yesterday. > I must make some photos for you, i have none at this time. > > Link is working good, little packetloss is there, but it appears only if > spider is connected to router, when connected to notebook with some new > (gigabit) realtek it works absolutely fine with the same cable and same > powering (PoE). > It seems to be problem with low performance of an old computer with ALI > chipset on this router. Low performance doesn't cause packetloss - only packet delay. The question is whether the packetloss is caused by some glitch in the logic design.. Have you already done some analysis to make sure nothing like there is present in Spider? It's a pity that you didn't just take over the digital schematic of Twister and implement it into the Xilinx straight. Assessing the correctness of Twister was quite pain in the ass, because the Ethernet standard needs to be violated a bit. It's principially impossible to implement it without a violation. So a careful balance between all possible modes of violation had to be taken. Are you going to make a mechanics for the design? A case like Twister2 would be good, with a stub of cable with RJ45 male. Did you NED measurement comparison with a particular pair of RX and TX to see if Spider is not introducing additional jitter into the signal? Did you design the logical circuit with jitter in mind? For example I remember from Twister that a particular implementation of multiplexer caused asymmetrical jitter. It was also quite pain in the ass to design it with these considerations in mind, but when you did it from scratch, it needs to be done again. CL< > On the second side is spider connected to cheap old unsophisticated switch. > On both sides are 10FD modes autonegotiated. > > Jakub Ladman > > PS: Czfree users may look on the map. Link is between Barrandov_1 and Wladows > node. > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From seligr at sh.cvut.cz Mon Oct 16 21:43:53 2006 From: seligr at sh.cvut.cz (Petr Seliger) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 22:43:53 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] workshop in Leiden, The Netherlands In-Reply-To: References: <004101c6efe3$042a1800$c401a8c0@bilbo> <1160898793.4531e8e91ecb2@desitka.sh.cvut.cz> Message-ID: <1161031433.4533ef098cb55@desitka.sh.cvut.cz> Cituji z emailu od "J.D. Bakker" : > > > Now the question. We are making a 'manual' how to build the Tetrapolis > step > >> by step. To do this we use the PCB's of > http://k-j.skontorp.net/ronja/rx > >> &tx/Ronja_pcbs.zip. > Is > >> there a problem about this regarding the authors rights? > >> > >Heh, best way to deal with this PCB is instanly smash them with > >hammer at once. > > That's a rather blunt opinion. > I have repaired several malfunctional ones and I was annoyed a little. Simply take one piece with as long coaxial cable as you plan at instalation and plug it into spectrum analyzer and you see the truth. > >You spare lot of time. Without solder mask are hard to solder by reason of > >incorrect isolation distances and wire thicks. > > The boards have solder mask on both sides (the ones used in Leiden do, > anyway). > Throught plating too, aren?t they? > > At another hand mystakes in > >design turns it into powerfull noise generator what interfere with TV > several > >tens meters around. > > What mistakes would that be ? Apart from some oscillations in the > receiver when the photodiode leads were too long I see very little > noise output. Could you be more precise (or point to a relevant > thread in the list archive ?). > Saw on what type of equipment? To see this type of oscilations you need analog osciloscope with 60MHz+ bandwith or spectrum analyzer. Its also know if you have poor amplifier and you mix some high frequency at the input and reject it at the output you can measure less distortion. In RX oscilation can be surely detected measuring voltage on pins 4 and 11 of NE592 across 270pF capacitor. Vf voltage is rectified on pn junction within first amplifier stage and there apears DC voltage between pins. (Tohle neumim rozumne prelozit: vtip je kdyz mate treba bidny zkreslujici audio zesilovac, tak kdyz na vstupu primichate par stovek mV frekvence cca 100-1000kHz, ktere samozrejme neprolezou reproduktorem az do usi, tak se subjektivne mnohonasobne zlepsi kvalita poslechu. Neco podobneho se deje i u vf zesilovacu ale to by byl popis na dlouho.) Photodiode itself must be buried indeed in metal case with it chip only spherical top is out. But only thing which it must do is catch interference from radio and TV transmitters, not oscilate. Common mystakes on this board are bad wires and isolation gaps thicks. And improper pads sizes for hand soldering (do not rely on solder mask isolation). Failures are poor vf blocking of dualgate mos transistor and ground loops. Both can be partially patched with small piece of metal like this http://ronja.vyrobce.cz/ele/rx/moje%20SMD%20Rx.JPG So I think these piece of crap obsolete and loose of time when something rather superior exist yet. > JDB. From seligr at sh.cvut.cz Mon Oct 16 21:55:39 2006 From: seligr at sh.cvut.cz (Petr Seliger) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 22:55:39 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] workshop in Leiden, The Netherlands In-Reply-To: <20061015104928.GB7267@kestrel.twibright.com> References: <004101c6efe3$042a1800$c401a8c0@bilbo> <1160898793.4531e8e91ecb2@desitka.sh.cvut.cz> <20061015104928.GB7267@kestrel.twibright.com> Message-ID: <1161032139.4533f1cb9496b@desitka.sh.cvut.cz> > > > there a problem about this regarding the authors rights? > > > > > Heh, best way to deal with this PCB is instanly smash them with hammer at > once. > > You spare lot of time. Without solder mask are hard to solder by reason > of > > incorrect isolation distances and wire thicks. At another hand mystakes > in > > design turns it into powerfull noise generator what interfere with TV > several > > tens meters around. > > My advice is use official clocks PCB for TX: > > http://ronja.twibright.com/transmitter/pcb.php > > and my unofficial for RX: http://wiki.twibright.com/index.php/RxPcbSeligr > and > > http://laser.webpark.cz/download.html but there is not building plans at > moment. > > But its design is simple straightforward and anybody had problems without > them > > yet (over 100 pieces on active duty in CR). > > Hehe that sounds like 50 Ronja links with your RX - do you know about ones > which are not in the gallery yet? > To je docela problem. "Velkoodberatele" maji trochu jine starosti nez porizovat fotky a nekam je posilat ale zkusim je premluvit. Jen co budu mit rochu cas tak pretridim instalace co jsem delal sam a stacil je nafotit. Vetsinu jsme toho stihli namontovat a rozbehat za vecer a po tme s mym digitalem moc neporidim. > CL< > From jdb at lartmaker.nl Mon Oct 16 23:39:55 2006 From: jdb at lartmaker.nl (J.D. Bakker) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 00:39:55 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] KjS receiver board performance (was: workshop in Leiden, The Netherlands) In-Reply-To: <1161031433.4533ef098cb55@desitka.sh.cvut.cz> References: <004101c6efe3$042a1800$c401a8c0@bilbo> <1160898793.4531e8e91ecb2@desitka.sh.cvut.cz> <1161031433.4533ef098cb55@desitka.sh.cvut.cz> Message-ID: Thank you Petr, this is good information ! I had searched the list archives, but couldn't find any specifics about the KjS boards, other than that some people have them working & installed and that other people (mostly posts by you) really don't like them. [about the KjS boards] > > >Heh, best way to deal with this PCB is instanly smash them with >> >hammer at once. >> >> That's a rather blunt opinion. >> >I have repaired several malfunctional ones and I was annoyed a little. Simply >take one piece with as long coaxial cable as you plan at instalation >and plug it into spectrum analyzer and you see the truth. OK, will do. I had checked on a scope and had seen nothing bad. > > >You spare lot of time. Without solder mask are hard to solder by reason of >> >incorrect isolation distances and wire thicks. >> >> The boards have solder mask on both sides (the ones used in Leiden do, >> anyway). >> >Throught plating too, aren?t they? Yes. > > > At another hand mystakes in >> >design turns it into powerfull noise generator what interfere with TV >> several >> >tens meters around. >> >> What mistakes would that be ? Apart from some oscillations in the >> receiver when the photodiode leads were too long I see very little >> noise output. Could you be more precise (or point to a relevant >> thread in the list archive ?). >> >Saw on what type of equipment? To see this type of oscilations you need analog >osciloscope with 60MHz+ bandwith or spectrum analyzer. I just re-checked on my 100MHz scope (the 400MHz one should be here soon), and saw no oscillations or other HF trash (other than that the rise time of he signal on the cable is a bit fast for my taste, but that can be fixed with a single capacitor). I have *no* shielding on this board, it's sitting on my desk. Two floors above me is the roof with a GSM base station, and I am within 5km of the air traffic control radars of Schiphol airport, so I get plenty of RF garbage here ;-). And yes, I've tested that it receives a LED signal, so it's not blind. These tests were done with the SMD KjS receiver board with a uA733 mounted. My only deviation from the instructions is that I do not use a phono connector (the coax is soldered straight to the PCB), and the coax shield is at ground not +12V. > Its also know if you have >poor amplifier and you mix some high frequency at the input and >reject it at the output you can measure less distortion. In RX >oscilation can be surely detected measuring voltage on pins 4 and 11 >of NE592 across 270pF capacitor. Vf voltage is rectified on pn >junction within first amplifier stage and there apears DC voltage >between pins. Nope, no oscillation there either. When should I expect to see this oscillation ? With strong received LED signal/weak received LED signal/no received LED signal ? >(Tohle neumim rozumne prelozit: vtip je kdyz mate treba bidny >zkreslujici audio zesilovac, tak kdyz na vstupu primichate par >stovek mV frekvence cca >100-1000kHz, ktere samozrejme neprolezou reproduktorem az do usi, tak se >subjektivne mnohonasobne zlepsi kvalita poslechu. Neco podobneho se >deje i u vf zesilovacu ale to by byl popis na dlouho.) Um, translation please ? >Photodiode itself must be buried indeed in metal case with it chip only >spherical top is out. But only thing which it must do is catch >interference from radio and TV transmitters, not oscilate. Well, I agree that oscillation == bad, and RF noise == bad too. >Common mystakes on this board are bad wires and isolation gaps thicks. And >improper pads sizes for hand soldering I would agree, those pads should be larger for comfortable soldering. I 'fixed' that by using 0805 parts for some of the passives; these fit *between* the pads and are faster to place with a bit more solder than the 1206 ones. >Failures are poor vf blocking of dualgate mos transistor and ground loops. Yes, you may be right on the ground issue. Better to drill some holes (especially near the FET and the '592) to connect top ground with bottom ground. >Both can be partially patched with small piece of metal like this >http://ronja.vyrobce.cz/ele/rx/moje%20SMD%20Rx.JPG That board looks different from the KjS boards I have. Is that a SMD NE592 ? >So I think these piece of crap obsolete and loose of time when >something rather superior exist yet. We have just populated 10 of these pieces of crap. If we can get them to work without (a) oscillating, (b) receiving too much RF noise or (c) causing too much RF noise I'd prefer that over smashing them. Thanks for your info, it's very helpful. JDB [looking into doing a more sensitive Ronja RX anyway, based on the 100MBit-version I designed. And I would like to get rid of that NE592; it's getting harder to buy, and it's famous for its potential for oscillation] -- LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files. http://www.lartmaker.nl/ From clock at twibright.com Tue Oct 17 08:06:01 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 09:06:01 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] First link with spider In-Reply-To: <200610161517.33359.ladmanj@volny.cz> References: <200610161517.33359.ladmanj@volny.cz> Message-ID: <20061017070601.GA21972@kestrel.twibright.com> On Mon, Oct 16, 2006 at 03:17:33PM +0200, Jakub Ladman wrote: > A new FSO 668m long testing link with spider interface is working since > yesterday. > I must make some photos for you, i have none at this time. > > Link is working good, little packetloss is there, but it appears only if > spider is connected to router, when connected to notebook with some new > (gigabit) realtek it works absolutely fine with the same cable and same > powering (PoE). > It seems to be problem with low performance of an old computer with ALI > chipset on this router. > On the second side is spider connected to cheap old unsophisticated switch. > On both sides are 10FD modes autonegotiated. The schematic and PCB is in Eagle, isn't it? Would you like to make it included in the Ronja project? Could you or someone else please redraw the schematic and PCB into gschem and PCB? CL< > > Jakub Ladman > > PS: Czfree users may look on the map. Link is between Barrandov_1 and Wladows > node. > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From clock at twibright.com Tue Oct 17 10:06:45 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 11:06:45 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] KjS receiver board performance (was: workshop in Leiden, The Netherlands) In-Reply-To: References: <004101c6efe3$042a1800$c401a8c0@bilbo> <1160898793.4531e8e91ecb2@desitka.sh.cvut.cz> <1161031433.4533ef098cb55@desitka.sh.cvut.cz> Message-ID: <20061017090645.GA23910@kestrel.twibright.com> On Tue, Oct 17, 2006 at 12:39:55AM +0200, J.D. Bakker wrote: > Thank you Petr, this is good information ! I had searched the list > archives, but couldn't find any specifics about the KjS boards, other > than that some people have them working & installed and that other > people (mostly posts by you) really don't like them. That's because the term "working" has a whole wide range of interpretations - from "I managed to get a packet through" to "it's a well designed, without suspected bugs, and runs perfectly". And everyone is using a different one according to his personal taste :) CL< > > [about the KjS boards] > > > > >Heh, best way to deal with this PCB is instanly smash them with > >> >hammer at once. > >> > >> That's a rather blunt opinion. > >> > >I have repaired several malfunctional ones and I was annoyed a little. Simply > >take one piece with as long coaxial cable as you plan at instalation > >and plug it into spectrum analyzer and you see the truth. > > OK, will do. I had checked on a scope and had seen nothing bad. > > > > >You spare lot of time. Without solder mask are hard to solder by reason of > >> >incorrect isolation distances and wire thicks. > >> > >> The boards have solder mask on both sides (the ones used in Leiden do, > >> anyway). > >> > >Throught plating too, aren?t they? > > Yes. > > > > > At another hand mystakes in > >> >design turns it into powerfull noise generator what interfere with TV > >> several > >> >tens meters around. > >> > >> What mistakes would that be ? Apart from some oscillations in the > >> receiver when the photodiode leads were too long I see very little > >> noise output. Could you be more precise (or point to a relevant > >> thread in the list archive ?). > >> > >Saw on what type of equipment? To see this type of oscilations you need analog > >osciloscope with 60MHz+ bandwith or spectrum analyzer. > > I just re-checked on my 100MHz scope (the 400MHz one should be here > soon), and saw no oscillations or other HF trash (other than that the > rise time of he signal on the cable is a bit fast for my taste, but > that can be fixed with a single capacitor). I have *no* shielding on > this board, it's sitting on my desk. Two floors above me is the roof > with a GSM base station, and I am within 5km of the air traffic > control radars of Schiphol airport, so I get plenty of RF garbage > here ;-). And yes, I've tested that it receives a LED signal, so it's > not blind. > > These tests were done with the SMD KjS receiver board with a uA733 > mounted. My only deviation from the instructions is that I do not use > a phono connector (the coax is soldered straight to the PCB), and the > coax shield is at ground not +12V. > > > Its also know if you have > >poor amplifier and you mix some high frequency at the input and > >reject it at the output you can measure less distortion. In RX > >oscilation can be surely detected measuring voltage on pins 4 and 11 > >of NE592 across 270pF capacitor. Vf voltage is rectified on pn > >junction within first amplifier stage and there apears DC voltage > >between pins. > > Nope, no oscillation there either. > > When should I expect to see this oscillation ? With strong received > LED signal/weak received LED signal/no received LED signal ? > > >(Tohle neumim rozumne prelozit: vtip je kdyz mate treba bidny > >zkreslujici audio zesilovac, tak kdyz na vstupu primichate par > >stovek mV frekvence cca > >100-1000kHz, ktere samozrejme neprolezou reproduktorem az do usi, tak se > >subjektivne mnohonasobne zlepsi kvalita poslechu. Neco podobneho se > >deje i u vf zesilovacu ale to by byl popis na dlouho.) > > Um, translation please ? > > >Photodiode itself must be buried indeed in metal case with it chip only > >spherical top is out. But only thing which it must do is catch > >interference from radio and TV transmitters, not oscilate. > > Well, I agree that oscillation == bad, and RF noise == bad too. > > >Common mystakes on this board are bad wires and isolation gaps thicks. And > >improper pads sizes for hand soldering > > I would agree, those pads should be larger for comfortable soldering. > I 'fixed' that by using 0805 parts for some of the passives; these > fit *between* the pads and are faster to place with a bit more solder > than the 1206 ones. > > >Failures are poor vf blocking of dualgate mos transistor and ground loops. > > Yes, you may be right on the ground issue. Better to drill some holes > (especially near the FET and the '592) to connect top ground with > bottom ground. > > >Both can be partially patched with small piece of metal like this > >http://ronja.vyrobce.cz/ele/rx/moje%20SMD%20Rx.JPG > > That board looks different from the KjS boards I have. Is that a SMD NE592 ? > > >So I think these piece of crap obsolete and loose of time when > >something rather superior exist yet. > > We have just populated 10 of these pieces of crap. If we can get them > to work without (a) oscillating, (b) receiving too much RF noise or > (c) causing too much RF noise I'd prefer that over smashing them. > > Thanks for your info, it's very helpful. > > JDB > [looking into doing a more sensitive Ronja RX anyway, based on the > 100MBit-version I designed. And I would like to get rid of that > NE592; it's getting harder to buy, and it's famous for its potential > for oscillation] > -- > LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files. > http://www.lartmaker.nl/ > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From clock at twibright.com Tue Oct 17 10:01:17 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 11:01:17 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] yatna In-Reply-To: <20061017021502.36841.qmail@web55012.mail.re4.yahoo.com> References: <20061017021502.36841.qmail@web55012.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20061017090117.GC16301@kestrel.twibright.com> On Mon, Oct 16, 2006 at 07:15:02PM -0700, yatna supriatna wrote: > hallo ! karel, I want askfor about technology Ronja? > > 1. is ronja tobe supported by software or Auto detect, if use it Where did > I get ronjas software and if auto detect how to operation it. If you mean Ethernet autonegotiation, Twister doesn't support autonegotiation. But Jakub Ladman claims to have made a board which supports autonegotiation. If he finishes the design for inclusion in Ronja, then Ronja will know autonegotation. > > 2. can technologi ronja use O.S Windows Yes > > 3. Where and HOW to did I get TOOL KITS of ronja No kits I know of. > > 4. How to did I get PCB board of receiver http://ronjashop.com - boards CL< > > Thanks, karel. I'm waiting your new information, Please help US. > > > > > --------------------------------- > Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help. Yahoo! Small Business. From clock at twibright.com Tue Oct 17 09:58:21 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 10:58:21 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] workshop in Leiden, The Netherlands In-Reply-To: <1161032139.4533f1cb9496b@desitka.sh.cvut.cz> References: <004101c6efe3$042a1800$c401a8c0@bilbo> <1160898793.4531e8e91ecb2@desitka.sh.cvut.cz> <20061015104928.GB7267@kestrel.twibright.com> <1161032139.4533f1cb9496b@desitka.sh.cvut.cz> Message-ID: <20061017085821.GB16301@kestrel.twibright.com> On Mon, Oct 16, 2006 at 10:55:39PM +0200, Petr Seliger wrote: > > > > there a problem about this regarding the authors rights? > > > > > > > Heh, best way to deal with this PCB is instanly smash them with hammer at > > once. > > > You spare lot of time. Without solder mask are hard to solder by reason > > of > > > incorrect isolation distances and wire thicks. At another hand mystakes > > in > > > design turns it into powerfull noise generator what interfere with TV > > several > > > tens meters around. > > > My advice is use official clocks PCB for TX: > > > http://ronja.twibright.com/transmitter/pcb.php > > > and my unofficial for RX: http://wiki.twibright.com/index.php/RxPcbSeligr > > and > > > http://laser.webpark.cz/download.html but there is not building plans at > > moment. > > > But its design is simple straightforward and anybody had problems without > > them > > > yet (over 100 pieces on active duty in CR). > > > > Hehe that sounds like 50 Ronja links with your RX - do you know about ones > > which are not in the gallery yet? > > > To je docela problem. "Velkoodberatele" maji trochu jine starosti nez porizovat "Velkoodberatele" ? Prodavas to firmam ktere to berou po vice kusech naraz? Tak kdyz nejsou fotky tak by stacila informace kde to jede a na jakou vzdalenost. CL< > fotky a nekam je posilat ale zkusim je premluvit. > Jen co budu mit rochu cas tak pretridim instalace co jsem delal sam a stacil je > nafotit. Vetsinu jsme toho stihli namontovat a rozbehat za vecer a po tme s mym > digitalem moc neporidim. > > > CL< > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From clock at twibright.com Tue Oct 17 10:24:41 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 11:24:41 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] workshop in Leiden, The Netherlands In-Reply-To: <1161031433.4533ef098cb55@desitka.sh.cvut.cz> References: <004101c6efe3$042a1800$c401a8c0@bilbo> <1160898793.4531e8e91ecb2@desitka.sh.cvut.cz> <1161031433.4533ef098cb55@desitka.sh.cvut.cz> Message-ID: <20061017092441.GE717@kestrel.twibright.com> On Mon, Oct 16, 2006 at 10:43:53PM +0200, Petr Seliger wrote: > Cituji z emailu od "J.D. Bakker" : > > > > > Now the question. We are making a 'manual' how to build the Tetrapolis > > step > > >> by step. To do this we use the PCB's of > > http://k-j.skontorp.net/ronja/rx > > >> &tx/Ronja_pcbs.zip. > > Is > > >> there a problem about this regarding the authors rights? > > >> > > >Heh, best way to deal with this PCB is instanly smash them with > > >hammer at once. > > > > That's a rather blunt opinion. > > > I have repaired several malfunctional ones and I was annoyed a little. Simply > take one piece with as long coaxial cable as you plan at instalation and plug it > into spectrum analyzer and you see the truth. > > > >You spare lot of time. Without solder mask are hard to solder by reason of > > >incorrect isolation distances and wire thicks. > > > > The boards have solder mask on both sides (the ones used in Leiden do, > > anyway). > > > Throught plating too, aren?t they? > > > > At another hand mystakes in > > >design turns it into powerfull noise generator what interfere with TV > > several > > >tens meters around. > > > > What mistakes would that be ? Apart from some oscillations in the > > receiver when the photodiode leads were too long I see very little > > noise output. Could you be more precise (or point to a relevant > > thread in the list archive ?). > > > Saw on what type of equipment? To see this type of oscilations you need analog > osciloscope with 60MHz+ bandwith or spectrum analyzer. Its also know if you have > poor amplifier and you mix some high frequency at the input and reject it at the > output you can measure less distortion. In RX oscilation can be surely detected > measuring voltage on pins 4 and 11 of NE592 across 270pF capacitor. Vf voltage > is rectified on pn junction within first amplifier stage and there apears DC > voltage between pins. > (Tohle neumim rozumne prelozit: vtip je kdyz mate treba bidny zkreslujici audio > zesilovac, tak kdyz na vstupu primichate par stovek mV frekvence cca > 100-1000kHz, ktere samozrejme neprolezou reproduktorem az do usi, tak se > subjektivne mnohonasobne zlepsi kvalita poslechu. Neco podobneho se deje i u vf > zesilovacu ale to by byl popis na dlouho.) > Photodiode itself must be buried indeed in metal case with it chip only > spherical top is out. But only thing which it must do is catch interference from > radio and TV transmitters, not oscilate. > Common mystakes on this board are bad wires and isolation gaps thicks. And > improper pads sizes for hand soldering (do not rely on solder mask isolation). And now it comes to the point where proprietary software brings it's fruits - the boards are designed in Protel or whatever, so neither I nor anyone else who doesn't have a Protel licence cannot fix the design. I asked Karl Jan Skontorp if he can redraw it into gschem and he said he doesn't have time. > Failures are poor vf blocking of dualgate mos transistor and ground loops. > Both can be partially patched with small piece of metal like this > http://ronja.vyrobce.cz/ele/rx/moje%20SMD%20Rx.JPG So I think these piece of The original Ronja RX already has this "patch" inside in the form of two metal partitions ;-) > crap obsolete and loose of time when something rather superior exist yet. Is it significantly faster to populate the KJS board than soldering the airwire? CL< > > > > JDB. > > _______________________________________________ Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From jdb at lartmaker.nl Tue Oct 17 12:38:52 2006 From: jdb at lartmaker.nl (J.D. Bakker) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 13:38:52 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] workshop in Leiden, The Netherlands In-Reply-To: <20061017092441.GE717@kestrel.twibright.com> References: <004101c6efe3$042a1800$c401a8c0@bilbo> <1160898793.4531e8e91ecb2@desitka.sh.cvut.cz> <1161031433.4533ef098cb55@desitka.sh.cvut.cz> <20061017092441.GE717@kestrel.twibright.com> Message-ID: >Is it significantly faster to populate the KJS board than soldering the >airwire? Yes. JDB. [assuming people with a non-RF background who are not more experienced at soldering airwire than populating PCBs, and including the factor that airwire has more interesting ways to mess up than a pre-built PCB. Data point: I just tried, and building an airwire receiver took me almost twice as long as populating a KjS board (45 minutes for the KjS vs almost 1.5 hours for the airwire. This is including finding the right parts in the parts box and counting them. I suspect a main factor is that you need to populate the airwire board linearly, whereas with the KjS PCB you can just, say, 'place all 100n capacitors'. And I *do* have an RF background.] -- LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files. http://www.lartmaker.nl/ From hnizdil at gmail.com Tue Oct 17 14:13:49 2006 From: hnizdil at gmail.com (Honza Hnizdil) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 15:13:49 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Twister2 electronic parts Message-ID: Hi. I tried to build twister1 airwire, but had no luck. TX LED (red) is still shining, when power is connected:/ I will check my twister when I come home today. There must be some shortcut or mistake in interconnections. I'm thinking about building twister2. Everything is ok, but I don't know, where to obtain LM2671M-5.0 regulator. As it seems, there isn't any equivalent for it. They don't have it in GME and in GES minimum amount to order is 95 pieces. Does Distrelec have some office in the Czech Republic? I guess not. Bye. Honza From seligr at sh.cvut.cz Tue Oct 17 14:30:42 2006 From: seligr at sh.cvut.cz (Petr Seliger) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 15:30:42 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] workshop in Leiden, The Netherlands In-Reply-To: <20061017092441.GE717@kestrel.twibright.com> References: <004101c6efe3$042a1800$c401a8c0@bilbo> <1160898793.4531e8e91ecb2@desitka.sh.cvut.cz> <1161031433.4533ef098cb55@desitka.sh.cvut.cz> <20061017092441.GE717@kestrel.twibright.com> Message-ID: <1161091842.4534db0277d1b@desitka.sh.cvut.cz> > And now it comes to the point where proprietary software brings it's fruits > - the boards are designed in Protel or whatever, so neither I nor anyone > else > who doesn't have a Protel licence cannot fix the design. I asked Karl Jan > Skontorp if he can redraw it into gschem and he said he doesn't have time. > > > Failures are poor vf blocking of dualgate mos transistor and ground > loops. > > Both can be partially patched with small piece of metal like this > > http://ronja.vyrobce.cz/ele/rx/moje%20SMD%20Rx.JPG So I think these piece > of > > The original Ronja RX already has this "patch" inside in the form of two > metal > partitions ;-) > Na mem plosnaku nemaji prepazky pozorovatelny vliv, taxem je vypustil. Jedine co vadi je pronikani externiho ruseni kdyz je krabicka otevrena, na podlaze to zkrati dosah o nekolik cm. Co ted delam vzorek vrabcaka ta jsem vypustil druhou prepazku pres ne592. Co jsem zatim videl tak spis lidem prekazi v pajeni. > > crap obsolete and loose of time when something rather superior exist yet. > > Is it significantly faster to populate the KJS board than soldering the > airwire? > Osadit plosnak RXv1.0 trva cca 30minut. > CL< > > > > > > > JDB. > > > > _______________________________________________ Ronja mailing list > > Ronja at lists.pointless.net http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > From seligr at sh.cvut.cz Tue Oct 17 14:34:56 2006 From: seligr at sh.cvut.cz (Petr Seliger) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 15:34:56 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] workshop in Leiden, The Netherlands In-Reply-To: <20061017085821.GB16301@kestrel.twibright.com> References: <004101c6efe3$042a1800$c401a8c0@bilbo> <1160898793.4531e8e91ecb2@desitka.sh.cvut.cz> <20061015104928.GB7267@kestrel.twibright.com> <1161032139.4533f1cb9496b@desitka.sh.cvut.cz> <20061017085821.GB16301@kestrel.twibright.com> Message-ID: <1161092096.4534dc00dc0c2@desitka.sh.cvut.cz> > > > Hehe that sounds like 50 Ronja links with your RX - do you know about > ones > > > which are not in the gallery yet? > > > > > To je docela problem. "Velkoodberatele" maji trochu jine starosti nez > porizovat > > "Velkoodberatele" ? Prodavas to firmam ktere to berou po vice kusech naraz? > Vyznamne mnozstvi samotnych prijimacu skoncilo v hkfree a podobnych zdruzenich, kde si to montuji do vlastnich mechanik. > Tak kdyz nejsou fotky tak by stacila informace kde to jede a na jakou > vzdalenost. > > CL< > > fotky a nekam je posilat ale zkusim je premluvit. > > Jen co budu mit rochu cas tak pretridim instalace co jsem delal sam a > stacil je > > nafotit. Vetsinu jsme toho stihli namontovat a rozbehat za vecer a po tme s > mym > > digitalem moc neporidim. > > > > > CL< > > > > > From seligr at sh.cvut.cz Tue Oct 17 14:55:58 2006 From: seligr at sh.cvut.cz (Petr Seliger) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 15:55:58 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] KjS receiver board performance (was: workshop in Leiden, The Netherlands) In-Reply-To: References: <004101c6efe3$042a1800$c401a8c0@bilbo> <1160898793.4531e8e91ecb2@desitka.sh.cvut.cz> <1161031433.4533ef098cb55@desitka.sh.cvut.cz> Message-ID: <1161093358.4534e0ee55479@desitka.sh.cvut.cz> Cituji z emailu od "J.D. Bakker" : > Thank you Petr, this is good information ! I had searched the list > archives, but couldn't find any specifics about the KjS boards, other > than that some people have them working & installed and that other > people (mostly posts by you) really don't like them. > > [about the KjS boards] > > > > >Heh, best way to deal with this PCB is instanly smash them with > >> >hammer at once. > >> > >> That's a rather blunt opinion. > >> > >I have repaired several malfunctional ones and I was annoyed a little. > Simply > >take one piece with as long coaxial cable as you plan at instalation > >and plug it into spectrum analyzer and you see the truth. > > OK, will do. I had checked on a scope and had seen nothing bad. > And what type of scope do you have? Many of digital ones averages input and you see nothing. Also ones /Velleman PC cards and others/ are collecting samples by several periods and also show nothing. > > > >You spare lot of time. Without solder mask are hard to solder by reason > of > >> >incorrect isolation distances and wire thicks. > >> > >> The boards have solder mask on both sides (the ones used in Leiden do, > >> anyway). > >> > >Throught plating too, aren?t they? > > Yes. > > > > > At another hand mystakes in > >> >design turns it into powerfull noise generator what interfere with TV > >> several > >> >tens meters around. > >> > >> What mistakes would that be ? Apart from some oscillations in the > >> receiver when the photodiode leads were too long I see very little > >> noise output. Could you be more precise (or point to a relevant > >> thread in the list archive ?). > >> > >Saw on what type of equipment? To see this type of oscilations you need > analog > >osciloscope with 60MHz+ bandwith or spectrum analyzer. > > I just re-checked on my 100MHz scope (the 400MHz one should be here > soon), and saw no oscillations or other HF trash (other than that the > rise time of he signal on the cable is a bit fast for my taste, but > that can be fixed with a single capacitor). I have *no* shielding on > this board, it's sitting on my desk. Two floors above me is the roof > with a GSM base station, and I am within 5km of the air traffic > control radars of Schiphol airport, so I get plenty of RF garbage > here ;-). And yes, I've tested that it receives a LED signal, so it's > not blind. > You are lucky. In our banana republic these things are hard too buy even secondhand ones cost some our month salaries. How long distance it works "on the floor" without optic? Common is with HPWT-BD00-F4000 diodes about 2m without reflections by floor. In its own axis this diode has shadow by its contact wire and distance may vary significantly thus when you aim with maximum it work 4-6m away. Things above 100MHz are not significant. They did not pass ne592 due its bandwidth. > These tests were done with the SMD KjS receiver board with a uA733 > mounted. My only deviation from the instructions is that I do not use > a phono connector (the coax is soldered straight to the PCB), and the > coax shield is at ground not +12V. > > > Its also know if you have > >poor amplifier and you mix some high frequency at the input and > >reject it at the output you can measure less distortion. In RX > >oscilation can be surely detected measuring voltage on pins 4 and 11 > >of NE592 across 270pF capacitor. Vf voltage is rectified on pn > >junction within first amplifier stage and there apears DC voltage > >between pins. > > Nope, no oscillation there either. > What type of MOSFET do you have? > When should I expect to see this oscillation ? With strong received > LED signal/weak received LED signal/no received LED signal ? > With weak/no signal. It may data pass when rssi is over 30-50mV. > >(Tohle neumim rozumne prelozit: vtip je kdyz mate treba bidny > >zkreslujici audio zesilovac, tak kdyz na vstupu primichate par > >stovek mV frekvence cca > >100-1000kHz, ktere samozrejme neprolezou reproduktorem az do usi, tak se > >subjektivne mnohonasobne zlepsi kvalita poslechu. Neco podobneho se > >deje i u vf zesilovacu ale to by byl popis na dlouho.) > > Um, translation please ? > > >Photodiode itself must be buried indeed in metal case with it chip only > >spherical top is out. But only thing which it must do is catch > >interference from radio and TV transmitters, not oscilate. > > Well, I agree that oscillation == bad, and RF noise == bad too. > > >Common mystakes on this board are bad wires and isolation gaps thicks. And > >improper pads sizes for hand soldering > > I would agree, those pads should be larger for comfortable soldering. > I 'fixed' that by using 0805 parts for some of the passives; these > fit *between* the pads and are faster to place with a bit more solder > than the 1206 ones. > I was also thinking about desing with 0805 SMD but it seems to be hard to handle for less experienced people. They are woory with BF998 yet. I am familiarly myself with 0402 - 0603 sizes. > >Failures are poor vf blocking of dualgate mos transistor and ground loops. > > Yes, you may be right on the ground issue. Better to drill some holes > (especially near the FET and the '592) to connect top ground with > bottom ground. > > >Both can be partially patched with small piece of metal like this > >http://ronja.vyrobce.cz/ele/rx/moje%20SMD%20Rx.JPG > > That board looks different from the KjS boards I have. Is that a SMD NE592 > ? > It Jakub Michnik?s modification. Our local shop stops distribution of NE592 in DIP14 case. Today we have only DIP8 and SO14. > >So I think these piece of crap obsolete and loose of time when > >something rather superior exist yet. > > We have just populated 10 of these pieces of crap. If we can get them > to work without (a) oscillating, (b) receiving too much RF noise or > (c) causing too much RF noise I'd prefer that over smashing them. > > Thanks for your info, it's very helpful. > > JDB > [looking into doing a more sensitive Ronja RX anyway, based on the > 100MBit-version I designed. And I would like to get rid of that > NE592; it's getting harder to buy, and it's famous for its potential > for oscillation] > -- Have an idea for NE592 replacement? It could be symetrical fast limiting amplifier but must be easy to get. I have such 1,5GHz BW optical receiver but its parts are very hard to get in small quantities. So keep in mind that ronja is for public. From jdb at lartmaker.nl Tue Oct 17 16:08:22 2006 From: jdb at lartmaker.nl (J.D. Bakker) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 17:08:22 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] KjS receiver board performance (was: workshop in Leiden, The Netherlands) In-Reply-To: <1161093358.4534e0ee55479@desitka.sh.cvut.cz> References: <004101c6efe3$042a1800$c401a8c0@bilbo> <1160898793.4531e8e91ecb2@desitka.sh.cvut.cz> <1161031433.4533ef098cb55@desitka.sh.cvut.cz> <1161093358.4534e0ee55479@desitka.sh.cvut.cz> Message-ID: > > [about the KjS boards] > > > > >I have repaired several malfunctional ones and I was annoyed a little. > > Simply > > >take one piece with as long coaxial cable as you plan at instalation >> >and plug it into spectrum analyzer and you see the truth. >> > > OK, will do. I had checked on a scope and had seen nothing bad. > >And what type of scope do you have? Many of digital ones averages >input and you see nothing. Also ones /Velleman PC cards and others/ >are collecting samples by several periods and also show nothing. I know. This is a Tektronix 100MHz digital scope, sampling at 500Msps. > > I just re-checked on my 100MHz scope (the 400MHz one should be here > > soon), and saw no oscillations or other HF trash > >You are lucky. In our banana republic these things are hard too buy even >secondhand ones cost some our month salaries. Well, it's not mine, it belongs to Work. > How long distance it works "on the floor" without optic? I'll check, will report back when I know. > > > Its also know if you have >> >poor amplifier and you mix some high frequency at the input and > > >reject it at the output you can measure less distortion. > > >> Nope, no oscillation there either. >> >What type of MOSFET do you have? The BF988A, manufacturer unknown (although I think Philips, considering the source). > > [looking into doing a more sensitive Ronja RX anyway, based on the >> 100MBit-version I designed. And I would like to get rid of that >> NE592; it's getting harder to buy, and it's famous for its potential > > for oscillation] > >Have an idea for NE592 replacement? It could be symetrical fast limiting >amplifier but must be easy to get. Indeed (and that's already getting to be a problem with several current Ronja parts...). For the 100Mbit version I have cascaded a few limiting differential stages using cheap RF transistors; for the 10Mbit Ronja I want to airwire a prototype with the same architecture but use regular transistors instead (BC54x/BC55x/2N390x or their SMD versions). Will keep this list informed on any progress. Thanks, JDB. [SPICE seems to like the 4-transistor diff amp better than the 2- or 6-tran versions; let's see what happens In Real Life] -- LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files. http://www.lartmaker.nl/ From clock at twibright.com Tue Oct 17 19:14:31 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 20:14:31 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] workshop in Leiden, The Netherlands In-Reply-To: References: <004101c6efe3$042a1800$c401a8c0@bilbo> <1160898793.4531e8e91ecb2@desitka.sh.cvut.cz> <1161031433.4533ef098cb55@desitka.sh.cvut.cz> <20061017092441.GE717@kestrel.twibright.com> Message-ID: <20061017181431.GA25786@kestrel.twibright.com> On Tue, Oct 17, 2006 at 01:38:52PM +0200, J.D. Bakker wrote: > >Is it significantly faster to populate the KJS board than soldering the > >airwire? > > Yes. > > JDB. > [assuming people with a non-RF background who are not more > experienced at soldering airwire than populating PCBs, and including > the factor that airwire has more interesting ways to mess up than a > pre-built PCB. Data point: I just tried, and building an airwire > receiver took me almost twice as long as populating a KjS board (45 > minutes for the KjS vs almost 1.5 hours for the airwire. This is > including finding the right parts in the parts box and counting them. > I suspect a main factor is that you need to populate the airwire > board linearly, whereas with the KjS PCB you can just, say, 'place > all 100n capacitors'. And I *do* have an RF background.] That's right. Well, another reason to finally make the RX PCB :) CL< > -- > LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files. > http://www.lartmaker.nl/ > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From clock at twibright.com Tue Oct 17 19:18:20 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 20:18:20 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Twister2 electronic parts In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20061017181820.GB25786@kestrel.twibright.com> On Tue, Oct 17, 2006 at 03:13:49PM +0200, Honza Hnizdil wrote: > Hi. > > I tried to build twister1 airwire, but had no luck. TX LED (red) is > still shining, when power is connected:/ I will check my twister when > I come home today. There must be some shortcut or mistake in > interconnections. > > I'm thinking about building twister2. Everything is ok, but I don't > know, where to obtain LM2671M-5.0 regulator. As it seems, there isn't It's a switched 5V regulator. Do they have some equivalents? > any equivalent for it. They don't have it in GME and in GES minimum > amount to order is 95 pieces. Does Distrelec have some office in the > Czech Republic? I guess not. Try distrelec.cz or go to distrelec.com and select the Czech Republic. I think they had, I am not online now. They will probably have some representative? CL< From ronja at hansmi.ch Tue Oct 17 21:56:23 2006 From: ronja at hansmi.ch (Michael Hanselmann) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 22:56:23 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] website and subversion in sync? In-Reply-To: <4532CF49.3040308@wzoeterwoude.net> References: <4532CF49.3040308@wzoeterwoude.net> Message-ID: <20061017205623.GA16312@hansmi.ch> Hello Rick On Mon, Oct 16, 2006 at 02:16:09AM +0200, Rick van der Zwet wrote: > The website for example refers too > http://ronja.twibright.com/utils/validate_script, but doesn't seems to > exists in http://ronja-svn.wservices.ch/ronja/ronja/trunk/utils/ ronja-svn.wservices.ch is out of service since a long time. Now one could ask why it's still up: I don't know. I will, however, contact someone who might be able to shut it down. The location is http://sources.forkbomb.ch/ronja/ Greets, Michael -- Gentoo Linux developer, http://hansmi.ch/, http://forkbomb.ch/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20061017/78899bae/attachment.bin From hnizdil at gmail.com Tue Oct 17 22:28:20 2006 From: hnizdil at gmail.com (Honza Hnizdil) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 23:28:20 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Twister2 electronic parts In-Reply-To: <20061017181820.GB25786@kestrel.twibright.com> References: <20061017181820.GB25786@kestrel.twibright.com> Message-ID: On 10/17/06, Karel Kulhavy wrote: > On Tue, Oct 17, 2006 at 03:13:49PM +0200, Honza Hnizdil wrote: > > Hi. > > > > I tried to build twister1 airwire, but had no luck. TX LED (red) is > > still shining, when power is connected:/ I will check my twister when > > I come home today. There must be some shortcut or mistake in > > interconnections. > > > > I'm thinking about building twister2. Everything is ok, but I don't > > know, where to obtain LM2671M-5.0 regulator. As it seems, there isn't > > It's a switched 5V regulator. Do they have some equivalents? I was browsing GME website and found LM2674M-5.0 SMD SO8 (stock no. 935-022). It's input voltage is 8V..40V, output voltage of course 5V and 0,5A load current. I compared their datasheeds and couldn't tell any difference. If I'm saying nonsenses be patient, please. I have grammar school and now studying Economy on VSE. Even thought my domain is informatics, I have never heard anything like "switched regulator" at this school:) > > > any equivalent for it. They don't have it in GME and in GES minimum > > amount to order is 95 pieces. Does Distrelec have some office in the > > Czech Republic? I guess not. > > Try distrelec.cz or go to distrelec.com and select the Czech Republic. I think > they had, I am not online now. They will probably have some representative? > > CL< I'm affraid Distrelec has the nearest representative in Vienna. When I choose Czech Republic in "Choose your country" map the postal address displayed reffers to Austria. For example in Slovak Republic is Radiobastler s.r.o. in Bratislava as Distrelec representative, but we haven't got any. Thanks. Honza > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > From hnizdil at gmail.com Tue Oct 17 22:42:51 2006 From: hnizdil at gmail.com (Honza Hnizdil) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 23:42:51 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Twister1 PCBs from ronjashop.com Message-ID: Hi all. I ordered two twister PCBs at ronjashop.com with personal delivery at Prague 9. But then i found this topic (http://www.pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/2005-October/007690.html) here on mailing list. After reading it I started to be doubtful. Is there anybody who recently has ordered PCBs and has received them too? Thanks in sdvance. Honza From petr.cipis at tiscali.cz Tue Oct 17 22:48:43 2006 From: petr.cipis at tiscali.cz (Cipis) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 23:48:43 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] ronja v Tisnove Message-ID: <000701c6f236$042dbd20$5046a8c0@cipis.net> ahojte, podarilo se mi udelat fotku druheho konce spoje: http://www.cipis.net/ronja/foto/cipis.net/01_provizorka/PA170168.JPG jeste to neni vsechno dozapojovane, prijde tam jeste par veci ... Cipis From rick at wzoeterwoude.net Wed Oct 18 04:11:21 2006 From: rick at wzoeterwoude.net (Rick van der Zwet) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 05:11:21 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] subversion checkout problem (WAS: Re: website and subversion in sync?) In-Reply-To: <20061017205623.GA16312@hansmi.ch> References: <4532CF49.3040308@wzoeterwoude.net> <20061017205623.GA16312@hansmi.ch> Message-ID: <45359B59.9040503@wzoeterwoude.net> Hi Michael, Michael Hanselmann wrote: >ronja-svn.wservices.ch is out of service since a long time. Now one >could ask why it's still up: I don't know. I will, however, contact >someone who might be able to shut it down. > >The location is http://sources.forkbomb.ch/ronja/ > > The subversion repos is only browsable by webinterface and not by anomious cli? It will error 301 when trying to. [rick at freezone-mobile] ~ $ svn co http://sources.forkbomb.ch/ronja/ svn: PROPFIND request failed on '/ronja' svn: PROPFIND of '/ronja': 301 Moved (http://sources.forkbomb.ch) Cheerz, /Rick From ronja at hansmi.ch Wed Oct 18 07:27:08 2006 From: ronja at hansmi.ch (Michael Hanselmann) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 08:27:08 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] subversion checkout problem (WAS: Re: website and subversion in sync?) In-Reply-To: <45359B59.9040503@wzoeterwoude.net> References: <4532CF49.3040308@wzoeterwoude.net> <20061017205623.GA16312@hansmi.ch> <45359B59.9040503@wzoeterwoude.net> Message-ID: <20061018062708.GA24388@hansmi.ch> Hello Rick On Wed, Oct 18, 2006 at 05:11:21AM +0200, Rick van der Zwet wrote: > The subversion repos is only browsable by webinterface and not by > anomious cli? Yes. Greets, Michael -- Gentoo Linux developer, http://hansmi.ch/, http://forkbomb.ch/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20061018/59c252eb/attachment.bin From g.mourits at casema.nl Wed Oct 18 08:56:47 2006 From: g.mourits at casema.nl (G.M. Mourits) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 09:56:47 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] KjS receiver board performance (was: workshop in Leiden, The Netherlands) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <005701c6f28a$f8c97a00$c401a8c0@bilbo> > -----Original Message----- > From: ronja-bounces+g.mourits=casema.nl at lists.pointless.net [mailto:ronja- > bounces+g.mourits=casema.nl at lists.pointless.net] On Behalf Of J.D. Bakker > Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 5:08 PM > To: Twibright Ronja > Subject: Re: [Ronja] KjS receiver board performance (was: workshop in > Leiden, The Netherlands) > > > > [about the KjS boards] > > > > > > >I have repaired several malfunctional ones and I was annoyed a > little. > > > Simply > > > >take one piece with as long coaxial cable as you plan at instalation > >> >and plug it into spectrum analyzer and you see the truth. > >> > > > OK, will do. I had checked on a scope and had seen nothing bad. > > > >And what type of scope do you have? Many of digital ones averages > >input and you see nothing. Also ones /Velleman PC cards and others/ > >are collecting samples by several periods and also show nothing. > > I know. This is a Tektronix 100MHz digital scope, sampling at 500Msps. > > > > I just re-checked on my 100MHz scope (the 400MHz one should be here > > > soon), and saw no oscillations or other HF trash > > > >You are lucky. In our banana republic these things are hard too buy even > >secondhand ones cost some our month salaries. > > Well, it's not mine, it belongs to Work. > > > How long distance it works "on the floor" without optic? > > I'll check, will report back when I know. > > > > > Its also know if you have > >> >poor amplifier and you mix some high frequency at the input and > > > >reject it at the output you can measure less distortion. > > > > >> Nope, no oscillation there either. > >> > >What type of MOSFET do you have? > > The BF988A, manufacturer unknown (although I think Philips, > considering the source). Infineon > > > > [looking into doing a more sensitive Ronja RX anyway, based on the > >> 100MBit-version I designed. And I would like to get rid of that > >> NE592; it's getting harder to buy, and it's famous for its potential > > > for oscillation] > > > >Have an idea for NE592 replacement? It could be symetrical fast limiting > >amplifier but must be easy to get. > > Indeed (and that's already getting to be a problem with several > current Ronja parts...). For the 100Mbit version I have cascaded a > few limiting differential stages using cheap RF transistors; for the > 10Mbit Ronja I want to airwire a prototype with the same architecture > but use regular transistors instead (BC54x/BC55x/2N390x or their SMD > versions). Will keep this list informed on any progress. > > Thanks, > > JDB. > [SPICE seems to like the 4-transistor diff amp better than the 2- or > 6-tran versions; let's see what happens In Real Life] > -- > LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files. > http://www.lartmaker.nl/ > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 611717.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 78119 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20061018/2a103e36/attachment-0001.pdf From clock at twibright.com Wed Oct 18 10:02:07 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 11:02:07 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Twister2 electronic parts In-Reply-To: References: <20061017181820.GB25786@kestrel.twibright.com> Message-ID: <20061018090207.GC9529@kestrel.twibright.com> On Tue, Oct 17, 2006 at 11:28:20PM +0200, Honza Hnizdil wrote: > On 10/17/06, Karel Kulhavy wrote: > > On Tue, Oct 17, 2006 at 03:13:49PM +0200, Honza Hnizdil wrote: > > > Hi. > > > > > > I tried to build twister1 airwire, but had no luck. TX LED (red) is > > > still shining, when power is connected:/ I will check my twister when > > > I come home today. There must be some shortcut or mistake in > > > interconnections. > > > > > > I'm thinking about building twister2. Everything is ok, but I don't > > > know, where to obtain LM2671M-5.0 regulator. As it seems, there isn't > > > > It's a switched 5V regulator. Do they have some equivalents? > > I was browsing GME website and found LM2674M-5.0 SMD SO8 (stock no. > 935-022). It's input voltage is 8V..40V, output voltage of course 5V > and 0,5A load current. I compared their datasheeds and couldn't tell The 2671 has "Features" (sync, soft start) which 2671 doesn't have. Use it - I will put it into the equivalents. We don't need neither sync nor soft start. > any difference. If I'm saying nonsenses be patient, please. I have > grammar school and now studying Economy on VSE. Even thought my domain > is informatics, I have never heard anything like "switched regulator" > at this school:) Well, if you want to understand electronics, the best approach seems to be avoid any EE education. For example I have been told by some CVUT student (don't remember who) that he showed the schematics of Ronja RX to some professor at CVUT and he said that it cannot work from principle. I also asked a Linux guy who has completed EE at ETH (Eidgenossische Technische Hochschule Zurich, Swiss Federal Institute of Technology Zurich). He seems to be smart, he works on mplayer and OGP. I told him about what they allegedly said on CVUT about the RX and asked him if he thinks that the RX cannot work. Of course he said that the front stage has insufficient bandwidth, it has to have at least 10MHz bandwidth, it cannot work. A friend who is studying CVUT asked me how a transistor is working after attending a lecture about transistors for a whole year. I tried to explain but it was impossible to overcome the dogmata that were implanted in his head. For example, when I told him: "look, the BE junction has an exponential characteristic", he replied "that's wrong, they told us that the voltage between B and E is always 0.7V, so it cannot be an exponential characteristic, it must be a constant function". Well - maybe my Ronja RX really can't work and it works only because the whole universe is buggy and I managed to hit a bug? But I believe the design is right, I just calculated it using common sense and some basic math around RC filters. CL< > > > > > > any equivalent for it. They don't have it in GME and in GES minimum > > > amount to order is 95 pieces. Does Distrelec have some office in the > > > Czech Republic? I guess not. > > > > Try distrelec.cz or go to distrelec.com and select the Czech Republic. I think > > they had, I am not online now. They will probably have some representative? > > > > CL< > > I'm affraid Distrelec has the nearest representative in Vienna. When I > choose Czech Republic in "Choose your country" map the postal address > displayed reffers to Austria. For example in Slovak Republic is > Radiobastler s.r.o. in Bratislava as Distrelec representative, but we > haven't got any. > > Thanks. > > Honza > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ronja mailing list > > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From kubajz at kbx.cz Wed Oct 18 10:43:53 2006 From: kubajz at kbx.cz (Jakub Sykora) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 11:43:53 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Twister2 electronic parts In-Reply-To: <20061018090207.GC9529@kestrel.twibright.com> References: <20061017181820.GB25786@kestrel.twibright.com> <20061018090207.GC9529@kestrel.twibright.com> Message-ID: <4535F759.3020700@kbx.cz> RoFl :) I know some people, who studied EE. They told me, they had good sense about EE after graduating from high school and then people at uni had broken their thinking in basics. After couple of years working outside EE they have nice imagination of how the dwarfs are running through the pipes carrying electric current on their backs as bourdens. I think dwarfs can be implemented everywhere without breaking theory... Imagine dwarfs carrying quanta of photons and throwing to other dwarfs residing in silica causing them to carry electric current to another destination... :) Kubajz Pro neanglicky mluvici osazenstvo: Znam nekolik lidi, kteri studovali na univerzite elektrotechniku. Rikali, ze do te doby meli docela dobrou predstavu, jak vsechno v elektrotechnice funguje. Lide na univerzite jim ovsem uplne rozbourali zaklady, kterym verili a rekli, ze vsechno je jinak. Po nekolika letech, co pracuji leckde se stejne nastesti vraceji k predstave trpaslicku bezicich skrz roury a nesoucich na zadech kousek proudu. Myslim, ze pomoci trpasliku se da vysvetlit vsechno bez ujmy pro teorii. Predstavte si treba trpaslicky, kteri nesou na zadech kvanta fotonu a kdyz je hodi jinym trpaslickum v kremiku, tak to zpusobi to, ze ti z toho kremiku vstanou, nalozi si trosku proudu na zada a jdou... Kubajz Karel Kulhavy napsal(a): > On Tue, Oct 17, 2006 at 11:28:20PM +0200, Honza Hnizdil wrote: >> On 10/17/06, Karel Kulhavy wrote: >>> On Tue, Oct 17, 2006 at 03:13:49PM +0200, Honza Hnizdil wrote: >>>> Hi. >>>> >>>> I tried to build twister1 airwire, but had no luck. TX LED (red) is >>>> still shining, when power is connected:/ I will check my twister when >>>> I come home today. There must be some shortcut or mistake in >>>> interconnections. >>>> >>>> I'm thinking about building twister2. Everything is ok, but I don't >>>> know, where to obtain LM2671M-5.0 regulator. As it seems, there isn't >>> It's a switched 5V regulator. Do they have some equivalents? >> I was browsing GME website and found LM2674M-5.0 SMD SO8 (stock no. >> 935-022). It's input voltage is 8V..40V, output voltage of course 5V >> and 0,5A load current. I compared their datasheeds and couldn't tell > > The 2671 has "Features" (sync, soft start) which 2671 doesn't have. Use > it - I will put it into the equivalents. We don't need neither sync nor > soft start. > >> any difference. If I'm saying nonsenses be patient, please. I have >> grammar school and now studying Economy on VSE. Even thought my domain >> is informatics, I have never heard anything like "switched regulator" >> at this school:) > > Well, if you want to understand electronics, the best approach seems to be > avoid any EE education. For example I have been told by some CVUT student > (don't remember who) that he showed the schematics of Ronja RX to some > professor at CVUT and he said that it cannot work from principle. > > I also asked a Linux guy who has completed EE at ETH > (Eidgenossische Technische Hochschule Zurich, Swiss Federal Institute of > Technology Zurich). He seems to be smart, he works on mplayer and OGP. I told > him about what they allegedly said on CVUT about the RX and asked him if he > thinks that the RX cannot work. Of course he said that the front stage has > insufficient bandwidth, it has to have at least 10MHz bandwidth, it cannot > work. > > A friend who is studying CVUT asked me how a transistor is working after > attending a lecture about transistors for a whole year. I tried to explain but > it was impossible to overcome the dogmata that were implanted in his head. For > example, when I told him: "look, the BE junction has an exponential > characteristic", he replied "that's wrong, they told us that the voltage > between B and E is always 0.7V, so it cannot be an exponential characteristic, > it must be a constant function". > > Well - maybe my Ronja RX really can't work and it works only because the whole > universe is buggy and I managed to hit a bug? But I believe the design is > right, I just calculated it using common sense and some basic math around RC > filters. > > CL< >>>> any equivalent for it. They don't have it in GME and in GES minimum >>>> amount to order is 95 pieces. Does Distrelec have some office in the >>>> Czech Republic? I guess not. >>> Try distrelec.cz or go to distrelec.com and select the Czech Republic. I think >>> they had, I am not online now. They will probably have some representative? >>> >>> CL< >> I'm affraid Distrelec has the nearest representative in Vienna. When I >> choose Czech Republic in "Choose your country" map the postal address >> displayed reffers to Austria. For example in Slovak Republic is >> Radiobastler s.r.o. in Bratislava as Distrelec representative, but we >> haven't got any. >> >> Thanks. >> >> Honza >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Ronja mailing list >>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net >>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Ronja mailing list >> Ronja na lists.pointless.net >> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja na lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja -- Jakub S?kora email: kubajz na kbx.cz <') ICQ: 68976632 ( =- mobil: +420 777 594 201 '' ------------- dal?? ??st --------------- Netextov? p??loha byla odstran?na... Jm?no: kubajz.vcf Typ: text/x-vcard Velikost: 265 bytes Popis: [??dn? popis nen? k dispozici] Url : http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20061018/34eba5a6/attachment.vcf From rick at wzoeterwoude.net Wed Oct 18 10:57:40 2006 From: rick at wzoeterwoude.net (Rick van der Zwet) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 11:57:40 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] ???UNSURE??? Re: subversion checkout problem (WAS: Re: website and subversion in sync?) In-Reply-To: <20061018062708.GA24388@hansmi.ch> References: <4532CF49.3040308@wzoeterwoude.net> <20061017205623.GA16312@hansmi.ch> <45359B59.9040503@wzoeterwoude.net> <20061018062708.GA24388@hansmi.ch> Message-ID: <4535FA94.1070609@wzoeterwoude.net> Michael Hanselmann wrote: > Hello Rick > > On Wed, Oct 18, 2006 at 05:11:21AM +0200, Rick van der Zwet wrote: > >> The subversion repos is only browsable by webinterface and not by >> anomious cli? >> > > Yes. There are quite a few bugs and out of date info on the website and I would like to fix this. But editing the php source is a bit hard by webinterface ;-) so could I have Read Only Access to the repos? Best regards, /Rick From seligr at sh.cvut.cz Wed Oct 18 12:00:53 2006 From: seligr at sh.cvut.cz (Petr Seliger) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 13:00:53 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Twister2 electronic parts In-Reply-To: <20061018090207.GC9529@kestrel.twibright.com> References: <20061017181820.GB25786@kestrel.twibright.com> <20061018090207.GC9529@kestrel.twibright.com> Message-ID: <1161169253.45360965d9a08@desitka.sh.cvut.cz> Cituji z emailu od Karel Kulhavy : > On Tue, Oct 17, 2006 at 11:28:20PM +0200, Honza Hnizdil wrote: > > On 10/17/06, Karel Kulhavy wrote: > > > On Tue, Oct 17, 2006 at 03:13:49PM +0200, Honza Hnizdil wrote: > > > > Hi. > > > > > > > > I tried to build twister1 airwire, but had no luck. TX LED (red) is > > > > still shining, when power is connected:/ I will check my twister when > > > > I come home today. There must be some shortcut or mistake in > > > > interconnections. > > > > > > > > I'm thinking about building twister2. Everything is ok, but I don't > > > > know, where to obtain LM2671M-5.0 regulator. As it seems, there isn't > > > > > > It's a switched 5V regulator. Do they have some equivalents? > > > > I was browsing GME website and found LM2674M-5.0 SMD SO8 (stock no. > > 935-022). It's input voltage is 8V..40V, output voltage of course 5V > > and 0,5A load current. I compared their datasheeds and couldn't tell > > The 2671 has "Features" (sync, soft start) which 2671 doesn't have. Use > it - I will put it into the equivalents. We don't need neither sync nor > soft start. > Je nejaky problem tam vrazit 78M05 nebo LF50, kdyz to clovek dratuje "ve vzduchu"? > > any difference. If I'm saying nonsenses be patient, please. I have > > grammar school and now studying Economy on VSE. Even thought my domain > > is informatics, I have never heard anything like "switched regulator" > > at this school:) > > Well, if you want to understand electronics, the best approach seems to be > avoid any EE education. For example I have been told by some CVUT student > (don't remember who) that he showed the schematics of Ronja RX to some > professor at CVUT and he said that it cannot work from principle. > > I also asked a Linux guy who has completed EE at ETH > (Eidgenossische Technische Hochschule Zurich, Swiss Federal Institute of > Technology Zurich). He seems to be smart, he works on mplayer and OGP. I > told > him about what they allegedly said on CVUT about the RX and asked him if he > thinks that the RX cannot work. Of course he said that the front stage has > insufficient bandwidth, it has to have at least 10MHz bandwidth, it cannot > work. > Jde o to co mu ukazal a komu to ukazal. Jestli to bylo na katedre teorie obvodu tak se nedivim. > A friend who is studying CVUT asked me how a transistor is working after > attending a lecture about transistors for a whole year. I tried to explain > but > it was impossible to overcome the dogmata that were implanted in his head. > For > example, when I told him: "look, the BE junction has an exponential > characteristic", he replied "that's wrong, they told us that the voltage > between B and E is always 0.7V, so it cannot be an exponential > characteristic, > it must be a constant function". > Bud byl z vypocetni techniky nebo to byl jeden z tech co se uci blbosti z vypracovanych otazek pochybne kvality nekde z inetu vecer pred zkouskou vcetne chyb. Takovy lide jsou ostudou ustavu a nastesti vetsinou konci do dvou let od pocatku studia. > Well - maybe my Ronja RX really can't work and it works only because the > whole > universe is buggy and I managed to hit a bug? But I believe the design is > right, I just calculated it using common sense and some basic math around > RC > filters. > > CL< > > > > > > > > > any equivalent for it. They don't have it in GME and in GES minimum > > > > amount to order is 95 pieces. Does Distrelec have some office in the > > > > Czech Republic? I guess not. > > > > > > Try distrelec.cz or go to distrelec.com and select the Czech Republic. I > think > > > they had, I am not online now. They will probably have some > representative? > > > > > > CL< > > > > I'm affraid Distrelec has the nearest representative in Vienna. When I > > choose Czech Republic in "Choose your country" map the postal address > > displayed reffers to Austria. For example in Slovak Republic is > > Radiobastler s.r.o. in Bratislava as Distrelec representative, but we > > haven't got any. > > > > Thanks. > > > > Honza > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Ronja mailing list > > > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ronja mailing list > > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > From ronja at hansmi.ch Wed Oct 18 12:01:55 2006 From: ronja at hansmi.ch (Michael Hanselmann) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 13:01:55 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] ???UNSURE??? Re: subversion checkout problem (WAS: Re: website and subversion in sync?) In-Reply-To: <4535FA94.1070609@wzoeterwoude.net> References: <4532CF49.3040308@wzoeterwoude.net> <20061017205623.GA16312@hansmi.ch> <45359B59.9040503@wzoeterwoude.net> <20061018062708.GA24388@hansmi.ch> <4535FA94.1070609@wzoeterwoude.net> Message-ID: <20061018110155.GA29475@hansmi.ch> Hello Rick Please don't change the subject in every mail. On Wed, Oct 18, 2006 at 11:57:40AM +0200, Rick van der Zwet wrote: > There are quite a few bugs and out of date info on the website and I > would like to fix this. But editing the php source is a bit hard by > webinterface ;-) so could I have Read Only Access to the repos? SVN repository access is only possible trough SSH. Due to forkbomb's policy, I can't give you SSH access, even if it would be very restricted (forced command, etc.). One reason is security. Another one is that after you, several others will come and request access, too. I don't have the time and motivation to do that. Adding an Apache module isn't an option. It adds more code, which doesn't make anything more secure. Beside of that, it would breach our concept of process isolation. You can, however, download individual files via ViewVC. Click on it and then on "download". Send patches created with "diff" to Karel. Greets, Michael Administrator of forkbomb.ch -- Gentoo Linux developer, http://hansmi.ch/, http://forkbomb.ch/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20061018/b0bdb392/attachment.bin From cd930 at centrum.cz Wed Oct 18 13:42:28 2006 From: cd930 at centrum.cz (-=RYS=-) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 14:42:28 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] First link with spider In-Reply-To: <200610161517.33359.ladmanj@volny.cz> References: <200610161517.33359.ladmanj@volny.cz> Message-ID: <200610181442.3895@centrum.cz> Jakube.....gratulace. Dej odkaz na fotky. Martin ______________________________________________________________ > Od: ladmanj na volny.cz > Komu: "Ronja, Twibright" > Datum: 16.10.2006 15:18 > P?edm?t: [Ronja] First link with spider > >A new FSO 668m long testing link with spider interface is working since >yesterday. >I must make some photos for you, i have none at this time. > >Link is working good, little packetloss is there, but it appears only if >spider is connected to router, when connected to notebook with some new >(gigabit) realtek it works absolutely fine with the same cable and same >powering (PoE). >It seems to be problem with low performance of an old computer with ALI >chipset on this router. >On the second side is spider connected to cheap old unsophisticated switch. >On both sides are 10FD modes autonegotiated. > >Jakub Ladman > >PS: Czfree users may look on the map. Link is between Barrandov_1 and Wladows >node. > >_______________________________________________ >Ronja mailing list >Ronja na lists.pointless.net >http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > ------------- dal?? ??st --------------- HTML p??loha byla odstran?na... URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20061018/d7c9e702/attachment.html From rick at wzoeterwoude.net Wed Oct 18 15:04:40 2006 From: rick at wzoeterwoude.net (Rick van der Zwet) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 16:04:40 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] mailinglist signature fix In-Reply-To: <1161169253.45360965d9a08@desitka.sh.cvut.cz> References: <20061017181820.GB25786@kestrel.twibright.com> <20061018090207.GC9529@kestrel.twibright.com> <1161169253.45360965d9a08@desitka.sh.cvut.cz> Message-ID: <45363478.5020105@wzoeterwoude.net> ... >>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Ronja mailing list >>>> Ronja at lists.pointless.net >>>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Ronja mailing list >>> Ronja at lists.pointless.net >>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja >> _______________________________________________ >> Ronja mailing list >> Ronja at lists.pointless.net >> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja >> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > To avoid such things replace the signature to the following. (2 x minus and a space in the begin). This will cause almost every mailer to strip the signature when replaying to a email. -- Ronja mailing list Ronja at lists.pointless.net http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja Best regards, /Rick From ronja at hansmi.ch Wed Oct 18 15:41:19 2006 From: ronja at hansmi.ch (Michael Hanselmann) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 16:41:19 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] mailinglist signature fix In-Reply-To: <45363478.5020105@wzoeterwoude.net> References: <20061017181820.GB25786@kestrel.twibright.com> <20061018090207.GC9529@kestrel.twibright.com> <1161169253.45360965d9a08@desitka.sh.cvut.cz> <45363478.5020105@wzoeterwoude.net> Message-ID: <20061018144119.GA1777@hansmi.ch> Hello Rick On Wed, Oct 18, 2006 at 04:04:40PM +0200, Rick van der Zwet wrote: > To avoid such things replace the signature to the following. > (2 x minus and a space in the begin). This will cause almost every > mailer to strip the signature when replaying to a email. Except Outlook and some others, but those don't care about others standards, too. But yeah, please change it, Karel. Thanks, Michael -- Gentoo Linux developer, http://hansmi.ch/, http://forkbomb.ch/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20061018/b98cc1f7/attachment.bin From clock at twibright.com Wed Oct 18 21:52:11 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 22:52:11 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] website and subversion in sync? In-Reply-To: <4532CF49.3040308@wzoeterwoude.net> References: <4532CF49.3040308@wzoeterwoude.net> Message-ID: <20061018205210.GA25663@kestrel.twibright.com> On Mon, Oct 16, 2006 at 02:16:09AM +0200, Rick van der Zwet wrote: > Hi, > > The website for example refers too > http://ronja.twibright.com/utils/validate_script, but doesn't seems to > exists in http://ronja-svn.wservices.ch/ronja/ronja/trunk/utils/ Sory the link on Ronja homepage was on the unmaintained and obsolete ronja-svn.wservices.ch. I changed it to the ViewCV. > > I cann't find (and fix) this page > http://ronja.twibright.com/twister2/tools.php (no closing tags in list) > cann't find the link to http://ronja.twibright.com/power_source/ as well. Fixed, thanks. > I'm more than willing to fix it (I've already checked out the > subversion), but someone has to point me out the way how to do it. You need to take the selected .php file from the ViewCV and then send me a patch. CL< > > Many thanks! > > Cheerz, > /Rick van der Zwet > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From clock at twibright.com Thu Oct 19 09:25:07 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 10:25:07 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Twister2 electronic parts In-Reply-To: <4535F759.3020700@kbx.cz> References: <20061017181820.GB25786@kestrel.twibright.com> <20061018090207.GC9529@kestrel.twibright.com> <4535F759.3020700@kbx.cz> Message-ID: <20061019082507.GA11702@kestrel.twibright.com> On Wed, Oct 18, 2006 at 11:43:53AM +0200, Jakub Sykora wrote: > RoFl :) > > I know some people, who studied EE. They told me, they had good sense > about EE after graduating from high school and then people at uni had > broken their thinking in basics. After couple of years working outside > EE they have nice imagination of how the dwarfs are running through the > pipes carrying electric current on their backs as bourdens. > > I think dwarfs can be implemented everywhere without breaking theory... > Imagine dwarfs carrying quanta of photons and throwing to other dwarfs > residing in silica causing them to carry electric current to another > destination... :) For me a photodiode is a simple mechanism. It's like a pinball. A steel ball labeled "photon" comes and goes into the layered structure of the PIN diode. With 11% probability it is lost. With 89% it hits the mechanism which lets another ball labeled "electron" from a magazine down the hill. If you pressurize the electrons too mutch, the latch is overloaded and lets two balls instead of one per hit. That's called APD mode. If you increase the pressure little bit more, the whole mechanism breaks down and lets all the electrons through. That's called breakdown. APD is just PIN diode where the latch can operate in the overloaded mode without breaking. Where does the noise come from? Well, the photons come at random times. So they also release electrons at random times. That's the noise. People have difficult time understanding transistor. I had it too. Until I understood. Transistor is basically kind of enhanced Wehre (dam? weir plant?) on a river. Normal dam has a wall over which the water falls. This dam has two walls parallel, spaced 2 meters apart. The space between the walls is the base. The upstream is emitter and the downstream collector. A hollow steel box 1.9 meters thick is floating in between and filling the space. The weight of the steel box causes it's top to be 0.7 volts above the water level between the walls. Normally the space between the walls is completely filled with water and the box is sticking up, blocking the river. If you want to open the dam, you have to start pumping water out from between the walls. The box lowers and lets the water fall over and flow away. But as there is a gap between the box and the wall, some percentage of the water flowing over is getting between the walls and you have to pump it out. The more precise is the transistor manufactured, the more snugly can the box fit and the less the gap and the less the unwanted water into your pump. This is what we call amplification of the transistor. What is saturation? That is when the water is not flowing away because there is some blockage down the river. Your whole structure becomes flooded. The difference between upside and downside drops to zero, but huge quantities of water are in the system. If you shut the water out, it still takes a lot of time until it actually flows away, because everything is so slow. The gap between the box and the upstream wall is usually thinner than between the downstream one because it's good for the manufacture. Therefore if you try to reverse the flow of the river, the amplification will drop down significantly. That is called reverse mode of the transistor. Well maybe this analogy has bugs but it's handy to understand the transistor. CL< > > Kubajz > > Pro neanglicky mluvici osazenstvo: > Znam nekolik lidi, kteri studovali na univerzite elektrotechniku. > Rikali, ze do te doby meli docela dobrou predstavu, jak vsechno v > elektrotechnice funguje. Lide na univerzite jim ovsem uplne rozbourali > zaklady, kterym verili a rekli, ze vsechno je jinak. Po nekolika letech, > co pracuji leckde se stejne nastesti vraceji k predstave trpaslicku > bezicich skrz roury a nesoucich na zadech kousek proudu. > > Myslim, ze pomoci trpasliku se da vysvetlit vsechno bez ujmy pro teorii. > Predstavte si treba trpaslicky, kteri nesou na zadech kvanta fotonu a > kdyz je hodi jinym trpaslickum v kremiku, tak to zpusobi to, ze ti z > toho kremiku vstanou, nalozi si trosku proudu na zada a jdou... > > Kubajz > > Karel Kulhavy napsal(a): > >On Tue, Oct 17, 2006 at 11:28:20PM +0200, Honza Hnizdil wrote: > >>On 10/17/06, Karel Kulhavy wrote: > >>>On Tue, Oct 17, 2006 at 03:13:49PM +0200, Honza Hnizdil wrote: > >>>>Hi. > >>>> > >>>>I tried to build twister1 airwire, but had no luck. TX LED (red) is > >>>>still shining, when power is connected:/ I will check my twister when > >>>>I come home today. There must be some shortcut or mistake in > >>>>interconnections. > >>>> > >>>>I'm thinking about building twister2. Everything is ok, but I don't > >>>>know, where to obtain LM2671M-5.0 regulator. As it seems, there isn't > >>>It's a switched 5V regulator. Do they have some equivalents? > >>I was browsing GME website and found LM2674M-5.0 SMD SO8 (stock no. > >>935-022). It's input voltage is 8V..40V, output voltage of course 5V > >>and 0,5A load current. I compared their datasheeds and couldn't tell > > > >The 2671 has "Features" (sync, soft start) which 2671 doesn't have. Use > >it - I will put it into the equivalents. We don't need neither sync nor > >soft start. > > > >>any difference. If I'm saying nonsenses be patient, please. I have > >>grammar school and now studying Economy on VSE. Even thought my domain > >>is informatics, I have never heard anything like "switched regulator" > >>at this school:) > > > >Well, if you want to understand electronics, the best approach seems to be > >avoid any EE education. For example I have been told by some CVUT student > >(don't remember who) that he showed the schematics of Ronja RX to some > >professor at CVUT and he said that it cannot work from principle. > > > >I also asked a Linux guy who has completed EE at ETH > >(Eidgenossische Technische Hochschule Zurich, Swiss Federal Institute of > >Technology Zurich). He seems to be smart, he works on mplayer and OGP. I > >told > >him about what they allegedly said on CVUT about the RX and asked him if he > >thinks that the RX cannot work. Of course he said that the front stage has > >insufficient bandwidth, it has to have at least 10MHz bandwidth, it cannot > >work. > > > >A friend who is studying CVUT asked me how a transistor is working after > >attending a lecture about transistors for a whole year. I tried to explain > >but > >it was impossible to overcome the dogmata that were implanted in his head. > >For > >example, when I told him: "look, the BE junction has an exponential > >characteristic", he replied "that's wrong, they told us that the voltage > >between B and E is always 0.7V, so it cannot be an exponential > >characteristic, > >it must be a constant function". > > > >Well - maybe my Ronja RX really can't work and it works only because the > >whole > >universe is buggy and I managed to hit a bug? But I believe the design is > >right, I just calculated it using common sense and some basic math around > >RC > >filters. > > > >CL< > >>>>any equivalent for it. They don't have it in GME and in GES minimum > >>>>amount to order is 95 pieces. Does Distrelec have some office in the > >>>>Czech Republic? I guess not. > >>>Try distrelec.cz or go to distrelec.com and select the Czech Republic. I > >>>think > >>>they had, I am not online now. They will probably have some > >>>representative? > >>> > >>>CL< > >>I'm affraid Distrelec has the nearest representative in Vienna. When I > >>choose Czech Republic in "Choose your country" map the postal address > >>displayed reffers to Austria. For example in Slovak Republic is > >>Radiobastler s.r.o. in Bratislava as Distrelec representative, but we > >>haven't got any. > >> > >>Thanks. > >> > >>Honza > >> > >>>_______________________________________________ > >>>Ronja mailing list > >>>Ronja at lists.pointless.net > >>>http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > >>> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>Ronja mailing list > >>Ronja at lists.pointless.net > >>http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Ronja mailing list > >Ronja at lists.pointless.net > >http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > -- > Jakub S?kora > email: kubajz at kbx.cz <') > ICQ: 68976632 ( =- > mobil: +420 777 594 201 '' > begin:vcard > fn;quoted-printable:Jakub S=C3=BDkora > n;quoted-printable:S=C3=BDkora;Jakub > adr;quoted-printable:;;=C3=9Adoln=C3=AD 1273;Praha 4;;14200;Czech Republic > email;internet:kubajz at kbx.cz > tel;cell:+420 777 594 201 > url:http://kubajz.kbx.cz > version:2.1 > end:vcard > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From clock at twibright.com Thu Oct 19 09:28:16 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 10:28:16 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] ???UNSURE??? Re: subversion checkout problem (WAS: Re: website and subversion in sync?) In-Reply-To: <4535FA94.1070609@wzoeterwoude.net> References: <4532CF49.3040308@wzoeterwoude.net> <20061017205623.GA16312@hansmi.ch> <45359B59.9040503@wzoeterwoude.net> <20061018062708.GA24388@hansmi.ch> <4535FA94.1070609@wzoeterwoude.net> Message-ID: <20061019082816.GB11702@kestrel.twibright.com> On Wed, Oct 18, 2006 at 11:57:40AM +0200, Rick van der Zwet wrote: > Michael Hanselmann wrote: > > Hello Rick > > > > On Wed, Oct 18, 2006 at 05:11:21AM +0200, Rick van der Zwet wrote: > > > >> The subversion repos is only browsable by webinterface and not by > >> anomious cli? > >> > > > > Yes. > There are quite a few bugs and out of date info on the website and I > would like to fix this. But editing the php source is a bit hard by > webinterface ;-) so could I have Read Only Access to the repos? Download the source from ViewVC, edit it and send a patch. But if you want to try out if it works, then you have to check out the whole tree, install Apache, a lot of development tools, then compile the Ronja tree and point your browser to your own webserver. Hansmi doesn't want to give anonymous access to the SVN from security reasons. If he gives you a user, then other people will ask for users too and it will become a problem. Maybe he could give you an user and if more users want an access too, make a cron job that would do svn update and then gzip the tree. People could then download the gzip which would be max. say 1 day old. CL< > > Best regards, > /Rick > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From clock at twibright.com Thu Oct 19 09:29:34 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 10:29:34 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Twister2 electronic parts In-Reply-To: <1161169253.45360965d9a08@desitka.sh.cvut.cz> References: <20061017181820.GB25786@kestrel.twibright.com> <20061018090207.GC9529@kestrel.twibright.com> <1161169253.45360965d9a08@desitka.sh.cvut.cz> Message-ID: <20061019082934.GC11702@kestrel.twibright.com> On Wed, Oct 18, 2006 at 01:00:53PM +0200, Petr Seliger wrote: > Cituji z emailu od Karel Kulhavy : > > > On Tue, Oct 17, 2006 at 11:28:20PM +0200, Honza Hnizdil wrote: > > > On 10/17/06, Karel Kulhavy wrote: > > > > On Tue, Oct 17, 2006 at 03:13:49PM +0200, Honza Hnizdil wrote: > > > > > Hi. > > > > > > > > > > I tried to build twister1 airwire, but had no luck. TX LED (red) is > > > > > still shining, when power is connected:/ I will check my twister when > > > > > I come home today. There must be some shortcut or mistake in > > > > > interconnections. Yes - I have an airwire twister and it normally works. But it looks like an alien brain inside :) > > > > > > > > > > I'm thinking about building twister2. Everything is ok, but I don't > > > > > know, where to obtain LM2671M-5.0 regulator. As it seems, there isn't > > > > > > > > It's a switched 5V regulator. Do they have some equivalents? > > > > > > I was browsing GME website and found LM2674M-5.0 SMD SO8 (stock no. > > > 935-022). It's input voltage is 8V..40V, output voltage of course 5V > > > and 0,5A load current. I compared their datasheeds and couldn't tell > > > > The 2671 has "Features" (sync, soft start) which 2671 doesn't have. Use > > it - I will put it into the equivalents. We don't need neither sync nor > > soft start. > > > Je nejaky problem tam vrazit 78M05 nebo LF50, kdyz to clovek dratuje "ve > vzduchu"? There's no option how to make Twister2 airwire. Only Twister had this option. CL< From clock at twibright.com Thu Oct 19 09:48:56 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 10:48:56 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] your aid In-Reply-To: <20061018092729.67933.qmail@web55003.mail.re4.yahoo.com> References: <20061018092729.67933.qmail@web55003.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20061019084856.GB4465@kestrel.twibright.com> On Wed, Oct 18, 2006 at 02:27:29AM -0700, yatna supriatna wrote: > can You give me scema of Ronja 10M Metropolis PCB, consist of: The Metropolis (http://ronja.twibright.com/metropolis/) is split into 3 electronics modules http://ronja.twibright.com/metropolis/modules.php > 1. AUI http://ronja.twibright.com/schematics/aui_forte.png > 2. Receiver http://ronja.twibright.com/schematics/10M_receiver.png > 3. Transmitter http://ronja.twibright.com/schematics/metropolis_transmitter/metropolis_transmitter.png CL< > thankfull for your aid. > From clock at twibright.com Thu Oct 19 09:50:13 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 10:50:13 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] subversion checkout problem (WAS: Re: website and subversion in sync?) In-Reply-To: <45359B59.9040503@wzoeterwoude.net> References: <4532CF49.3040308@wzoeterwoude.net> <20061017205623.GA16312@hansmi.ch> <45359B59.9040503@wzoeterwoude.net> Message-ID: <20061019085013.GA4268@kestrel.twibright.com> On Wed, Oct 18, 2006 at 05:11:21AM +0200, Rick van der Zwet wrote: > Hi Michael, > > > Michael Hanselmann wrote: > > >ronja-svn.wservices.ch is out of service since a long time. Now one > >could ask why it's still up: I don't know. I will, however, contact > >someone who might be able to shut it down. > > > >The location is http://sources.forkbomb.ch/ronja/ > > > > > The subversion repos is only browsable by webinterface and not by > anomious cli? I changed the old obsolete link to ronja-svn in Ronja -> Devleopment to the ViewVC which Hansmi set up. CL< > It will error 301 when trying to. > > [rick at freezone-mobile] ~ $ svn co http://sources.forkbomb.ch/ronja/ > svn: PROPFIND request failed on '/ronja' > svn: PROPFIND of '/ronja': 301 Moved (http://sources.forkbomb.ch) > > > Cheerz, > /Rick > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From hnizdil at gmail.com Thu Oct 19 10:13:44 2006 From: hnizdil at gmail.com (Honza Hnizdil) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 11:13:44 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Twister2 electronic parts In-Reply-To: <20061019082934.GC11702@kestrel.twibright.com> References: <20061017181820.GB25786@kestrel.twibright.com> <20061018090207.GC9529@kestrel.twibright.com> <1161169253.45360965d9a08@desitka.sh.cvut.cz> <20061019082934.GC11702@kestrel.twibright.com> Message-ID: On 10/19/06, Karel Kulhavy wrote: > On Wed, Oct 18, 2006 at 01:00:53PM +0200, Petr Seliger wrote: > > Cituji z emailu od Karel Kulhavy : > > > > > On Tue, Oct 17, 2006 at 11:28:20PM +0200, Honza Hnizdil wrote: > > > > On 10/17/06, Karel Kulhavy wrote: > > > > > On Tue, Oct 17, 2006 at 03:13:49PM +0200, Honza Hnizdil wrote: > > > > > > Hi. > > > > > > > > > > > > I tried to build twister1 airwire, but had no luck. TX LED (red) is > > > > > > still shining, when power is connected:/ I will check my twister when > > > > > > I come home today. There must be some shortcut or mistake in > > > > > > interconnections. > > Yes - I have an airwire twister and it normally works. But it looks like an > alien brain inside :) I think I have damaged or overheated some IC or another part during the soldering. But I still didn't check the whole twister:/ I'm quite lazy:) Honza > > ... From hnizdil at gmail.com Thu Oct 19 10:18:16 2006 From: hnizdil at gmail.com (Honza Hnizdil) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 11:18:16 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Twister2 electronic parts In-Reply-To: <20061019082507.GA11702@kestrel.twibright.com> References: <20061017181820.GB25786@kestrel.twibright.com> <20061018090207.GC9529@kestrel.twibright.com> <4535F759.3020700@kbx.cz> <20061019082507.GA11702@kestrel.twibright.com> Message-ID: On 10/19/06, Karel Kulhavy wrote: > On Wed, Oct 18, 2006 at 11:43:53AM +0200, Jakub Sykora wrote: > > RoFl :) > > > > I know some people, who ... > > For me a photodiode is a simple ... > > People have difficult time understanding transistor. ... > > CL< Oh nice! With your explanation and my imagination I think I have some chance to understand how transistor works:D > > > > ... > > > From kubajz at kbx.cz Thu Oct 19 11:35:16 2006 From: kubajz at kbx.cz (Jakub Sykora) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 12:35:16 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Twister2 electronic parts In-Reply-To: References: <20061017181820.GB25786@kestrel.twibright.com> <20061018090207.GC9529@kestrel.twibright.com> <4535F759.3020700@kbx.cz> <20061019082507.GA11702@kestrel.twibright.com> Message-ID: <453754E4.903@kbx.cz> Hi, photo transistor can also be imagined with dwarfs :) Imagine one dwarf as an door attendant. The door are shared for two pipes. One is the photon pipe known from my previous story. The sceond pipe is a common current-dwarfs pipe. Every time a photon-dwarf arrives, the door attendant has to open the door. But unfortunately the door are also opened for electric current dwarfs. If you say the door is round you have nice current-dwarfs expressed as non-linear function of photon-dwarfs :) I don't know how can they assume square shaped door at uni - even when nearly every small child knows that nearly everything is non-linear/non-constant in nature... This is my imagination of photoelectric devices. And if I find something to be regular/linear etc. I am starting to be very suspicious. K btw: Does anybody know a problem that cannot be imagined by dwarfs? Honza Hnizdil napsal(a): > On 10/19/06, Karel Kulhavy wrote: >> On Wed, Oct 18, 2006 at 11:43:53AM +0200, Jakub Sykora wrote: >>> RoFl :) >>> >>> I know some people, who ... >> For me a photodiode is a simple ... >> >> People have difficult time understanding transistor. ... >> >> CL< > > Oh nice! With your explanation and my imagination I think I have some > chance to understand how transistor works:D > >>> ... >>> > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja na lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja -- Jakub S?kora email: kubajz na kbx.cz <') ICQ: 68976632 ( =- mobil: +420 777 594 201 '' ------------- dal?? ??st --------------- Netextov? p??loha byla odstran?na... Jm?no: kubajz.vcf Typ: text/x-vcard Velikost: 265 bytes Popis: [??dn? popis nen? k dispozici] Url : http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20061019/66a218a4/attachment.vcf From kubajz at kbx.cz Thu Oct 19 12:24:32 2006 From: kubajz at kbx.cz (Jakub Sykora) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 13:24:32 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Twister2 electronic parts In-Reply-To: <20061019082507.GA11702@kestrel.twibright.com> References: <20061017181820.GB25786@kestrel.twibright.com> <20061018090207.GC9529@kestrel.twibright.com> <4535F759.3020700@kbx.cz> <20061019082507.GA11702@kestrel.twibright.com> Message-ID: <45376070.9070905@kbx.cz> Hehe, I will put this to archive if somebody asks me what a transistor is and how it works. It is much better than dwarf-transistor... K Karel Kulhavy napsal(a): > On Wed, Oct 18, 2006 at 11:43:53AM +0200, Jakub Sykora wrote: >> RoFl :) >> >> I know some people, who studied EE. They told me, they had good sense >> about EE after graduating from high school and then people at uni had >> broken their thinking in basics. After couple of years working outside >> EE they have nice imagination of how the dwarfs are running through the >> pipes carrying electric current on their backs as bourdens. >> >> I think dwarfs can be implemented everywhere without breaking theory... >> Imagine dwarfs carrying quanta of photons and throwing to other dwarfs >> residing in silica causing them to carry electric current to another >> destination... :) > > For me a photodiode is a simple mechanism. It's like a pinball. A steel ball > labeled "photon" comes and goes into the layered structure of the PIN diode. > With 11% probability it is lost. With 89% it hits the mechanism which lets > another ball labeled "electron" from a magazine down the hill. > > If you pressurize the electrons too mutch, the latch is overloaded and lets two > balls instead of one per hit. That's called APD mode. If you increase the > pressure little bit more, the whole mechanism breaks down and lets all the > electrons through. That's called breakdown. > > APD is just PIN diode where the latch can operate in the overloaded mode > without breaking. > > Where does the noise come from? Well, the photons come at random times. So they > also release electrons at random times. That's the noise. > > People have difficult time understanding transistor. I had it too. Until I > understood. > > Transistor is basically kind of enhanced Wehre (dam? weir plant?) on a river. > Normal dam has a wall over which the water falls. This dam has two walls > parallel, spaced 2 meters apart. > > The space between the walls is the base. The upstream is emitter and the > downstream collector. > > A hollow steel box 1.9 meters thick is floating > in between and filling the space. The weight of the steel box causes it's > top to be 0.7 volts above the water level between the walls. > > Normally the space between the walls is completely filled with water and the > box is sticking up, blocking the river. If you want to open the dam, you have > to start pumping water out from between the walls. The box lowers and lets the > water fall over and flow away. > > But as there is a gap between the box and the wall, some percentage of the > water flowing over is getting between the walls and you have to pump it out. > The more precise is the transistor manufactured, the more snugly can the box > fit and the less the gap and the less the unwanted water into your pump. This > is what we call amplification of the transistor. > > What is saturation? That is when the water is not flowing away because there > is some blockage down the river. Your whole structure becomes flooded. > The difference between upside and downside drops to zero, but huge quantities > of water are in the system. If you shut the water out, it still takes a lot > of time until it actually flows away, because everything is so slow. > > The gap between the box and the upstream wall is usually thinner than between > the downstream one because it's good for the manufacture. Therefore if you try > to reverse the flow of the river, the amplification will drop down > significantly. That is called reverse mode of the transistor. > > Well maybe this analogy has bugs but it's handy to understand the transistor. > > CL< >> Kubajz >> >> Pro neanglicky mluvici osazenstvo: >> Znam nekolik lidi, kteri studovali na univerzite elektrotechniku. >> Rikali, ze do te doby meli docela dobrou predstavu, jak vsechno v >> elektrotechnice funguje. Lide na univerzite jim ovsem uplne rozbourali >> zaklady, kterym verili a rekli, ze vsechno je jinak. Po nekolika letech, >> co pracuji leckde se stejne nastesti vraceji k predstave trpaslicku >> bezicich skrz roury a nesoucich na zadech kousek proudu. >> >> Myslim, ze pomoci trpasliku se da vysvetlit vsechno bez ujmy pro teorii. >> Predstavte si treba trpaslicky, kteri nesou na zadech kvanta fotonu a >> kdyz je hodi jinym trpaslickum v kremiku, tak to zpusobi to, ze ti z >> toho kremiku vstanou, nalozi si trosku proudu na zada a jdou... >> >> Kubajz >> >> Karel Kulhavy napsal(a): >>> On Tue, Oct 17, 2006 at 11:28:20PM +0200, Honza Hnizdil wrote: >>>> On 10/17/06, Karel Kulhavy wrote: >>>>> On Tue, Oct 17, 2006 at 03:13:49PM +0200, Honza Hnizdil wrote: >>>>>> Hi. >>>>>> >>>>>> I tried to build twister1 airwire, but had no luck. TX LED (red) is >>>>>> still shining, when power is connected:/ I will check my twister when >>>>>> I come home today. There must be some shortcut or mistake in >>>>>> interconnections. >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm thinking about building twister2. Everything is ok, but I don't >>>>>> know, where to obtain LM2671M-5.0 regulator. As it seems, there isn't >>>>> It's a switched 5V regulator. Do they have some equivalents? >>>> I was browsing GME website and found LM2674M-5.0 SMD SO8 (stock no. >>>> 935-022). It's input voltage is 8V..40V, output voltage of course 5V >>>> and 0,5A load current. I compared their datasheeds and couldn't tell >>> The 2671 has "Features" (sync, soft start) which 2671 doesn't have. Use >>> it - I will put it into the equivalents. We don't need neither sync nor >>> soft start. >>> >>>> any difference. If I'm saying nonsenses be patient, please. I have >>>> grammar school and now studying Economy on VSE. Even thought my domain >>>> is informatics, I have never heard anything like "switched regulator" >>>> at this school:) >>> Well, if you want to understand electronics, the best approach seems to be >>> avoid any EE education. For example I have been told by some CVUT student >>> (don't remember who) that he showed the schematics of Ronja RX to some >>> professor at CVUT and he said that it cannot work from principle. >>> >>> I also asked a Linux guy who has completed EE at ETH >>> (Eidgenossische Technische Hochschule Zurich, Swiss Federal Institute of >>> Technology Zurich). He seems to be smart, he works on mplayer and OGP. I >>> told >>> him about what they allegedly said on CVUT about the RX and asked him if he >>> thinks that the RX cannot work. Of course he said that the front stage has >>> insufficient bandwidth, it has to have at least 10MHz bandwidth, it cannot >>> work. >>> >>> A friend who is studying CVUT asked me how a transistor is working after >>> attending a lecture about transistors for a whole year. I tried to explain >>> but >>> it was impossible to overcome the dogmata that were implanted in his head. >>> For >>> example, when I told him: "look, the BE junction has an exponential >>> characteristic", he replied "that's wrong, they told us that the voltage >>> between B and E is always 0.7V, so it cannot be an exponential >>> characteristic, >>> it must be a constant function". >>> >>> Well - maybe my Ronja RX really can't work and it works only because the >>> whole >>> universe is buggy and I managed to hit a bug? But I believe the design is >>> right, I just calculated it using common sense and some basic math around >>> RC >>> filters. >>> >>> CL< >>>>>> any equivalent for it. They don't have it in GME and in GES minimum >>>>>> amount to order is 95 pieces. Does Distrelec have some office in the >>>>>> Czech Republic? I guess not. >>>>> Try distrelec.cz or go to distrelec.com and select the Czech Republic. I >>>>> think >>>>> they had, I am not online now. They will probably have some >>>>> representative? >>>>> >>>>> CL< >>>> I'm affraid Distrelec has the nearest representative in Vienna. When I >>>> choose Czech Republic in "Choose your country" map the postal address >>>> displayed reffers to Austria. For example in Slovak Republic is >>>> Radiobastler s.r.o. in Bratislava as Distrelec representative, but we >>>> haven't got any. >>>> >>>> Thanks. >>>> >>>> Honza >>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Ronja mailing list >>>>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net >>>>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Ronja mailing list >>>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net >>>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Ronja mailing list >>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net >>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja >> -- >> Jakub S?kora >> email: kubajz na kbx.cz <') >> ICQ: 68976632 ( =- >> mobil: +420 777 594 201 '' > >> begin:vcard >> fn;quoted-printable:Jakub S=C3=BDkora >> n;quoted-printable:S=C3=BDkora;Jakub >> adr;quoted-printable:;;=C3=9Adoln=C3=AD 1273;Praha 4;;14200;Czech Republic >> email;internet:kubajz na kbx.cz >> tel;cell:+420 777 594 201 >> url:http://kubajz.kbx.cz >> version:2.1 >> end:vcard >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> Ronja mailing list >> Ronja na lists.pointless.net >> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja na lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja -- Jakub S?kora email: kubajz na kbx.cz <') ICQ: 68976632 ( =- mobil: +420 777 594 201 '' ------------- dal?? ??st --------------- Netextov? p??loha byla odstran?na... Jm?no: kubajz.vcf Typ: text/x-vcard Velikost: 265 bytes Popis: [??dn? popis nen? k dispozici] Url : http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20061019/9e68be50/attachment.vcf From clock at twibright.com Fri Oct 20 08:20:37 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 09:20:37 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Twister2 electronic parts In-Reply-To: References: <20061017181820.GB25786@kestrel.twibright.com> <20061018090207.GC9529@kestrel.twibright.com> <1161169253.45360965d9a08@desitka.sh.cvut.cz> <20061019082934.GC11702@kestrel.twibright.com> Message-ID: <20061020072037.GA15611@kestrel.twibright.com> On Thu, Oct 19, 2006 at 11:13:44AM +0200, Honza Hnizdil wrote: > On 10/19/06, Karel Kulhavy wrote: > > On Wed, Oct 18, 2006 at 01:00:53PM +0200, Petr Seliger wrote: > > > Cituji z emailu od Karel Kulhavy : > > > > > > > On Tue, Oct 17, 2006 at 11:28:20PM +0200, Honza Hnizdil wrote: > > > > > On 10/17/06, Karel Kulhavy wrote: > > > > > > On Tue, Oct 17, 2006 at 03:13:49PM +0200, Honza Hnizdil wrote: > > > > > > > Hi. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I tried to build twister1 airwire, but had no luck. TX LED (red) is > > > > > > > still shining, when power is connected:/ I will check my twister when > > > > > > > I come home today. There must be some shortcut or mistake in > > > > > > > interconnections. > > > > Yes - I have an airwire twister and it normally works. But it looks like an > > alien brain inside :) > > I think I have damaged or overheated some IC or another part during > the soldering. But I still didn't check the whole twister:/ I'm quite I don't remember overheating any chips... They are not so easy to overheat. More probably some wire is broken off or leads somewhere else or is touching something else or a resistor or capacitor has improper value, missing power or ground connection or a chip turned around or a wrong chip. CL< > lazy:) > > Honza > > > > > ... > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From clock at twibright.com Fri Oct 20 09:59:34 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 10:59:34 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] mailinglist signature fix In-Reply-To: <20061018144119.GA1777@hansmi.ch> References: <20061017181820.GB25786@kestrel.twibright.com> <20061018090207.GC9529@kestrel.twibright.com> <1161169253.45360965d9a08@desitka.sh.cvut.cz> <45363478.5020105@wzoeterwoude.net> <20061018144119.GA1777@hansmi.ch> Message-ID: <20061020085934.GA23760@kestrel.twibright.com> On Wed, Oct 18, 2006 at 04:41:19PM +0200, Michael Hanselmann wrote: > Hello Rick > > On Wed, Oct 18, 2006 at 04:04:40PM +0200, Rick van der Zwet wrote: > > To avoid such things replace the signature to the following. > > (2 x minus and a space in the begin). This will cause almost every > > mailer to strip the signature when replaying to a email. > > Except Outlook and some others, but those don't care about others > standards, too. > > But yeah, please change it, Karel. Well I just attempted to change it so we'll see what happens. CL< > > Thanks, > Michael > > -- > Gentoo Linux developer, http://hansmi.ch/, http://forkbomb.ch/ > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From clock at twibright.com Fri Oct 20 10:15:06 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 11:15:06 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] mailinglist signature fix In-Reply-To: <20061018144119.GA1777@hansmi.ch> References: <20061017181820.GB25786@kestrel.twibright.com> <20061018090207.GC9529@kestrel.twibright.com> <1161169253.45360965d9a08@desitka.sh.cvut.cz> <45363478.5020105@wzoeterwoude.net> <20061018144119.GA1777@hansmi.ch> Message-ID: <20061020091505.GA8313@kestrel.twibright.com> On Wed, Oct 18, 2006 at 04:41:19PM +0200, Michael Hanselmann wrote: > Hello Rick > > On Wed, Oct 18, 2006 at 04:04:40PM +0200, Rick van der Zwet wrote: > > To avoid such things replace the signature to the following. > > (2 x minus and a space in the begin). This will cause almost every I didn't put the space there at first. Now I put it there so let's see what happens. CL< > > mailer to strip the signature when replaying to a email. > > Except Outlook and some others, but those don't care about others > standards, too. > > But yeah, please change it, Karel. > > Thanks, > Michael > > -- > Gentoo Linux developer, http://hansmi.ch/, http://forkbomb.ch/ > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From ladmanj at volny.cz Fri Oct 20 13:24:16 2006 From: ladmanj at volny.cz (Jakub Ladman) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 14:24:16 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] First link with spider In-Reply-To: <20061017070601.GA21972@kestrel.twibright.com> References: <200610161517.33359.ladmanj@volny.cz> <20061017070601.GA21972@kestrel.twibright.com> Message-ID: <200610201424.16447.ladmanj@volny.cz> Dne ?ter? 17 ??jen 2006 09:06 Karel Kulhavy napsal(a): > On Mon, Oct 16, 2006 at 03:17:33PM +0200, Jakub Ladman wrote: > > A new FSO 668m long testing link with spider interface is working since > > yesterday. > > I must make some photos for you, i have none at this time. > > > > Link is working good, little packetloss is there, but it appears only if > > spider is connected to router, when connected to notebook with some new > > (gigabit) realtek it works absolutely fine with the same cable and same > > powering (PoE). > > It seems to be problem with low performance of an old computer with ALI > > chipset on this router. > > On the second side is spider connected to cheap old unsophisticated > > switch. On both sides are 10FD modes autonegotiated. > > The schematic and PCB is in Eagle, isn't it? Would you like to make it > included in the Ronja project? Could you or someone else please redraw the > schematic and PCB into gschem and PCB? Yes it is in eagle. I would like to redraw in gschem, but i do not know how to. Respectively a new version must be created with XC95144XL, because of limitation of XC9572XL, and i want to do it completely in gschem and pcb. But it seems to be very difficult challenge. I need to see someone during the drawing process. Any video or something like that. In a fact, this was absolutely not needed when i learned eagle :-( Jakub Ladman PS: I hope that this mail is understandable, because i have had big problems with formulating it in english. > > CL< > > > Jakub Ladman > > > > PS: Czfree users may look on the map. Link is between Barrandov_1 and > > Wladows node. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ronja mailing list > > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From ladmanj at volny.cz Fri Oct 20 13:28:27 2006 From: ladmanj at volny.cz (Jakub Ladman) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 14:28:27 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] First link with spider In-Reply-To: <20061017070601.GA21972@kestrel.twibright.com> References: <200610161517.33359.ladmanj@volny.cz> <20061017070601.GA21972@kestrel.twibright.com> Message-ID: <200610201428.27785.ladmanj@volny.cz> Yes i would like to make it included into ronja project too. But there are the limitations, written in the previous mail. Maybe i am stupid, maybe gschem is. Jakub Ladman From clock at twibright.com Fri Oct 20 14:03:17 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 15:03:17 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] First link with spider In-Reply-To: <200610201424.16447.ladmanj@volny.cz> References: <200610161517.33359.ladmanj@volny.cz> <20061017070601.GA21972@kestrel.twibright.com> <200610201424.16447.ladmanj@volny.cz> Message-ID: <20061020130317.GA2714@kestrel.twibright.com> On Fri, Oct 20, 2006 at 02:24:16PM +0200, Jakub Ladman wrote: > Dne ?ter? 17 ??jen 2006 09:06 Karel Kulhavy napsal(a): > > On Mon, Oct 16, 2006 at 03:17:33PM +0200, Jakub Ladman wrote: > > > A new FSO 668m long testing link with spider interface is working since > > > yesterday. > > > I must make some photos for you, i have none at this time. > > > > > > Link is working good, little packetloss is there, but it appears only if > > > spider is connected to router, when connected to notebook with some new > > > (gigabit) realtek it works absolutely fine with the same cable and same > > > powering (PoE). > > > It seems to be problem with low performance of an old computer with ALI > > > chipset on this router. > > > On the second side is spider connected to cheap old unsophisticated > > > switch. On both sides are 10FD modes autonegotiated. > > > > The schematic and PCB is in Eagle, isn't it? Would you like to make it > > included in the Ronja project? Could you or someone else please redraw the > > schematic and PCB into gschem and PCB? > > Yes it is in eagle. > I would like to redraw in gschem, but i do not know how to. It's surely possible - gschem has all necessary features. Start with installing gschem. When you have gschem just place the components. If you don't have the right element, read about drawing elements on the gschem page. You can ask here or on the gEDA mailing list. I am permanently telling the gschem people that the usability needs to be worked on but it's not improving much. On your case they will at least see the individual problems in reality. > Respectively a new version must be created with XC95144XL, because of > limitation of XC9572XL, and i want to do it completely in gschem and pcb. What limitations are there? CL< > But it seems to be very difficult challenge. > I need to see someone during the drawing process. Any video or something like > that. > In a fact, this was absolutely not needed when i learned eagle :-( > > Jakub Ladman > > PS: I hope that this mail is understandable, because i have had big problems > with formulating it in english. > > > > > CL< > > > > > Jakub Ladman > > > > > > PS: Czfree users may look on the map. Link is between Barrandov_1 and > > > Wladows node. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Ronja mailing list > > > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ronja mailing list > > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > -- > Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From clock at twibright.com Fri Oct 20 14:05:41 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 15:05:41 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] First link with spider In-Reply-To: <200610201424.16447.ladmanj@volny.cz> References: <200610161517.33359.ladmanj@volny.cz> <20061017070601.GA21972@kestrel.twibright.com> <200610201424.16447.ladmanj@volny.cz> Message-ID: <20061020130541.GB2714@kestrel.twibright.com> On Fri, Oct 20, 2006 at 02:24:16PM +0200, Jakub Ladman wrote: > Dne ?ter? 17 ??jen 2006 09:06 Karel Kulhavy napsal(a): > > On Mon, Oct 16, 2006 at 03:17:33PM +0200, Jakub Ladman wrote: > > > A new FSO 668m long testing link with spider interface is working since > > > yesterday. > > > I must make some photos for you, i have none at this time. > > > > > > Link is working good, little packetloss is there, but it appears only if > > > spider is connected to router, when connected to notebook with some new > > > (gigabit) realtek it works absolutely fine with the same cable and same > > > powering (PoE). > > > It seems to be problem with low performance of an old computer with ALI > > > chipset on this router. > > > On the second side is spider connected to cheap old unsophisticated > > > switch. On both sides are 10FD modes autonegotiated. > > > > The schematic and PCB is in Eagle, isn't it? Would you like to make it > > included in the Ronja project? Could you or someone else please redraw the > > schematic and PCB into gschem and PCB? > > Yes it is in eagle. > I would like to redraw in gschem, but i do not know how to. > Respectively a new version must be created with XC95144XL, because of > limitation of XC9572XL, and i want to do it completely in gschem and pcb. > But it seems to be very difficult challenge. > I need to see someone during the drawing process. Any video or something like > that. > In a fact, this was absolutely not needed when i learned eagle :-( How did you learn Eagle? Did you read some documentations or learn by experimenting? What are your unanswered questions in gschem? Please subscribe to the gEDA mailing list too and make sure when some of your problem is a generic one regarding the gEDA usability, you let them know too. CL< From clock at twibright.com Fri Oct 20 14:06:14 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 15:06:14 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] First link with spider In-Reply-To: <200610201428.27785.ladmanj@volny.cz> References: <200610161517.33359.ladmanj@volny.cz> <20061017070601.GA21972@kestrel.twibright.com> <200610201428.27785.ladmanj@volny.cz> Message-ID: <20061020130614.GC2714@kestrel.twibright.com> On Fri, Oct 20, 2006 at 02:28:27PM +0200, Jakub Ladman wrote: > Yes i would like to make it included into ronja project too. > But there are the limitations, written in the previous mail. > Maybe i am stupid, maybe gschem is. Well you need to point out the individual problems. This way neither me nor anyone from the gEDA mailing list can help you. CL< > > Jakub Ladman > > -- > Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From jdb at lartmaker.nl Fri Oct 20 15:03:19 2006 From: jdb at lartmaker.nl (J.D. Bakker) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 16:03:19 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] First link with spider In-Reply-To: <200610201424.16447.ladmanj@volny.cz> References: <200610161517.33359.ladmanj@volny.cz> <20061017070601.GA21972@kestrel.twibright.com> <200610201424.16447.ladmanj@volny.cz> Message-ID: >Dne ?ter? 17 ??jen 2006 09:06 Karel Kulhavy napsal(a): > > The schematic and PCB is in Eagle, isn't it? Would you like to make it >> included in the Ronja project? Could you or someone else please redraw the >> schematic and PCB into gschem and PCB? > >Yes it is in eagle. >I would like to redraw in gschem, but i do not know how to. >Respectively a new version must be created with XC95144XL, because of >limitation of XC9572XL, and i want to do it completely in gschem and pcb. >But it seems to be very difficult challenge. In my experience from a few years ago, gschem is very simple to learn. PCB may be harder. >I need to see someone during the drawing process. Any video or something like >that. >In a fact, this was absolutely not needed when i learned eagle :-( > >Jakub Ladman > >PS: I hope that this mail is understandable, because i have had big problems >with formulating it in english. It is very understandable, and thank you very much for the English. JDB. -- LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files. http://www.lartmaker.nl/ From ladmanj at volny.cz Fri Oct 20 17:29:53 2006 From: ladmanj at volny.cz (Jakub Ladman) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 18:29:53 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] First link with spider In-Reply-To: <20061020130317.GA2714@kestrel.twibright.com> References: <200610161517.33359.ladmanj@volny.cz> <200610201424.16447.ladmanj@volny.cz> <20061020130317.GA2714@kestrel.twibright.com> Message-ID: <200610201829.53470.ladmanj@volny.cz> > > Respectively a new version must be created with XC95144XL, because of > > limitation of XC9572XL, and i want to do it completely in gschem and pcb. > > What limitations are there? > I need to append idle detector, i have packet detector, but it makes problems if there is not idle (link is corrupted) there is a noise, which opens a "packet gate" (contains something faster than idle) and in this case, spider (but twister too) forwards this noise to a nic or switch and it causes link fall, and maybe switch is employed by this shit. This idle detector fits not into XC9572XL Also if i will have 144 registers instead of 72, i will separate better sub circuits, which must have common parts at this time (common part of flp pulse generator counter and link tp detector counter). Maybe it allows creation of some additional diagnostic circuit. Last thing is, i want to drive HPWT led directly from xilinx and 144 variant have more pins, which may i connect together (parallel) and driving will be stronger. Jakub Ladman (I wrote this fucking short mail about half hour in english.) From clock at twibright.com Sat Oct 21 09:40:04 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 10:40:04 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] First link with spider In-Reply-To: <200610201829.53470.ladmanj@volny.cz> References: <200610161517.33359.ladmanj@volny.cz> <200610201424.16447.ladmanj@volny.cz> <20061020130317.GA2714@kestrel.twibright.com> <200610201829.53470.ladmanj@volny.cz> Message-ID: <20061021084004.GB10729@kestrel.twibright.com> On Fri, Oct 20, 2006 at 06:29:53PM +0200, Jakub Ladman wrote: > > > > Respectively a new version must be created with XC95144XL, because of > > > limitation of XC9572XL, and i want to do it completely in gschem and pcb. > > > > What limitations are there? > > > > I need to append idle detector, i have packet detector, but it makes problems > if there is not idle (link is corrupted) there is a noise, which opens > a "packet gate" (contains something faster than idle) and in this case, > spider (but twister too) forwards this noise to a nic or switch and it causes > link fall, and maybe switch is employed by this shit. Zil0gator from #z80 said that the synthesized code is about 2x bigger than when you assign the cells in the Xilinx manually. Do you think it could be optimized this way to use a smaller chip? CL< > > This idle detector fits not into XC9572XL > > Also if i will have 144 registers instead of 72, i will separate better sub > circuits, which must have common parts at this time (common part of flp pulse > generator counter and link tp detector counter). > > Maybe it allows creation of some additional diagnostic circuit. > > Last thing is, i want to drive HPWT led directly from xilinx and 144 variant > have more pins, which may i connect together (parallel) and driving will be > stronger. > > > Jakub Ladman > (I wrote this fucking short mail about half hour in english.) > > -- > Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From bartosz_kolodziejczak at o2.pl Sat Oct 21 10:13:29 2006 From: bartosz_kolodziejczak at o2.pl (Bartosz Kolodziejczak) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 11:13:29 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] On-floor distance question Message-ID: <4539E4B9.801@o2.pl> Hi, what is your maximum distance on floor guys? I'm currently using hpwt-bd00-f4000 and sfh203, airwire construction. On floor I get 2,5 mtrs. Both receivers start working at >60mV. All testpoints are OK, preemphasis is OK as well, HPWT current is 68mA. BTW - Did someone try to drive f4000 with current above 70mA for longer period of time? I guess it should be ok for very long time. Thanks Crush From bartosz_kolodziejczak at o2.pl Sat Oct 21 10:44:40 2006 From: bartosz_kolodziejczak at o2.pl (Bartosz Kolodziejczak) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 11:44:40 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Which photodiode? Message-ID: <4539EC08.8030100@o2.pl> Hi Folks again, I trying to build ronja link at distance close to 1,5km. Therefore I have to choose best components for my link. Transmitter will be HPWT-BD00-F4000, 13cm lenses. The question is - which photodiode choose to get maximum sensitivity. I read many posts regarding my question, but didn't find exact answer. According to datasheets ;) our photodiodes have: BPW43 Relative sensitivity - 62%@625nm Power dissipation - 215mW Capacitance - 1.3-4pF (frequency dependent) SFH203 Relative sensitivity - 73%@625nm Power dissipation - 100mW Capacitance - 11pF SFH203 has much better relative sensitivity at 625nm, but has MUCH greater Capacitance. As far as I know the greater the input capacitance in RX the greater the signal attenuation. I'm not sure about power dissipation value. It surely - the less the better, but what is its influence on RX performance? Any suggestions are welcome. Crush From bartosz_kolodziejczak at o2.pl Sat Oct 21 10:55:58 2006 From: bartosz_kolodziejczak at o2.pl (Bartosz Kolodziejczak) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 11:55:58 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Distance VS weather Message-ID: <4539EEAE.6000802@o2.pl> Hi again, To all people who have their links working on distance close to 1,4km or above. I'm trying to run link at distance close to 1,5 km. HPWT-BD00-F4000, SFH203 (or BPW43) and 13cm lenses will be used. Tell me please where is your link located and how does it behave in worse weather conditions. I mean - fog of course, rain, snow mainly. I know (according to Twibright Labs calculations) Ronja should fail at 1,4 km (or above) distance if free space attenuation increases above 4,25dB/km, but its only theoretical calculation. We can see in Registered Instalation Gallery its possible to install Ronja on 1,7 km distance, which should be impossible taking calculation into account. I want to know field-test results. It will be useful for all of us I guess. Best regards Crush From clock at twibright.com Sun Oct 22 09:16:17 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 10:16:17 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Which photodiode? In-Reply-To: <4539EC08.8030100@o2.pl> References: <4539EC08.8030100@o2.pl> Message-ID: <20061022081617.GA2228@kestrel.twibright.com> On Sat, Oct 21, 2006 at 11:44:40AM +0200, Bartosz Kolodziejczak wrote: > Hi Folks again, > > I trying to build ronja link at distance close to 1,5km. Therefore I > have to choose best components for my link. Transmitter will be > HPWT-BD00-F4000, 13cm lenses. The question is - which photodiode choose > to get maximum sensitivity. I read many posts regarding my question, but > didn't find exact answer. > According to datasheets ;) our photodiodes have: > > BPW43 > Relative sensitivity - 62%@625nm > Power dissipation - 215mW > Capacitance - 1.3-4pF (frequency dependent) > > SFH203 > Relative sensitivity - 73%@625nm > Power dissipation - 100mW > Capacitance - 11pF > > SFH203 has much better relative sensitivity at 625nm, but has MUCH > greater Capacitance. As far as I know the greater the input capacitance I don't know what quantum efficiency BPW43 has but I guess it will be the same as SFH203. BPW43 has less capacitance, but smaller crystal so it catches less light. I guess the resulting receiver head sensitivity will be about the same. You could probably improve it by using BPW43 and some high-quality glass lens with longer focus than usual to get as small light spot as possible. But the receiver aiming would become more difficult. CL< > in RX the greater the signal attenuation. I'm not sure about power > dissipation value. It surely - the less the better, but what is its > influence on RX performance? > > Any suggestions are welcome. > > Crush > > -- > Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From clock at twibright.com Sun Oct 22 11:41:18 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 12:41:18 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Plazmatron holder Message-ID: <20061022104118.GA16877@kestrel.twibright.com> I made a prototype of a new holder for Ronja. The joints of the old holder weren't based on any sound geometrical design and I suspected it to be capable of creep depending on how the manufacturing imprecisions in the holder happened to be shaped. On a friend's roof a creep happened which was suspected to be caused by the holder. http://images.twibright.com/tns/1f25.html There are some changes to be made: - most of the 6mm plates will be probably replaced by 4mm - the heel is welded the incorrect way, the M6 bolts don't have space for their heads (there's a weld just next to the hole), it has to be cut off and made once more - there has to be a cutout made in the quoin so the heel of the tubular head doesn't hit the quion when moved by the fine adjustment. Both the holder and the console idea are promissing to be suitable for inclusion into Ronja and replacing the old design. It maybe seems a bit complicated but it's actually quite easy to manufacture, especially if you have access to plasma cutter and a MIG welder like me. The welding is generally a fast process. However the MIG welder can be replaced by ordinary welder which is not expensive in every home/garden store. The plasma cutter can be replaced by a band saw and the round parts trimmed with a hacksaw and file, or the whole thing cut out using hand saw. When I replace the plates with 4mm it should be reasonably easy to cut with a hacksaw too where a band saw is not available. I plan to make the end finish by zinc plating. When the shape is fixed I want to have it zinc plated. CL< From clock at twibright.com Sun Oct 22 12:13:52 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 13:13:52 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Metalworking tools Message-ID: <20061022111352.GB16877@kestrel.twibright.com> I wonder how expensive tools for welding and grinding actually are. Do you know how much the cheapest welder capable of welding 6mm T-joint costs? I found this: http://www.hobbyexpert.cz/svarecky-a-invertory/ge-145 3kW for 1790 CZK inc. VAT Here an unusually cheap angle grinder is for 19.90 CHF ( =~ 390 CZK): http://www.jumbo.ch/de/do_it/maschinen/index.cfm?fuseaction=detail&productID=7339&start=1&best_price=1 CL< From ladmanj at volny.cz Sun Oct 22 14:17:48 2006 From: ladmanj at volny.cz (Jakub Ladman) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 15:17:48 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] First link with spider In-Reply-To: <20061021084004.GB10729@kestrel.twibright.com> References: <200610161517.33359.ladmanj@volny.cz> <200610201829.53470.ladmanj@volny.cz> <20061021084004.GB10729@kestrel.twibright.com> Message-ID: <200610221517.48110.ladmanj@volny.cz> Dne sobota 21 ??jen 2006 10:40 Karel Kulhavy napsal(a): > On Fri, Oct 20, 2006 at 06:29:53PM +0200, Jakub Ladman wrote: > > > > Respectively a new version must be created with XC95144XL, because of > > > > limitation of XC9572XL, and i want to do it completely in gschem and > > > > pcb. > > > > > > What limitations are there? > > > > I need to append idle detector, i have packet detector, but it makes > > problems if there is not idle (link is corrupted) there is a noise, which > > opens a "packet gate" (contains something faster than idle) and in this > > case, spider (but twister too) forwards this noise to a nic or switch and > > it causes link fall, and maybe switch is employed by this shit. > > Zil0gator from #z80 said that the synthesized code is about 2x bigger than > when you assign the cells in the Xilinx manually. Do you think it could be > optimized this way to use a smaller chip? > > CL< I do not know, but i think it will help not enough, the number of registers used, i have in my own controll, and i am 100% sure i need 100 registers at optimum, but i have only 72 in XC9572XL. On market is XC95108 with 108 registers, but this is a obsolete 5V part in unpractical big package only. It is not recomended for new designs. The XC95144XLVQ100 is the cheapest and smallest device with enough registers. It is about 100 - 22 pins = 78 pins for driving LED, it is 39 and 39 for PUSH - PULL driving. I think with this bigger device it will be anyway better and the rise of cost will be not as big. Jakub > > > This idle detector fits not into XC9572XL > > > > Also if i will have 144 registers instead of 72, i will separate better > > sub circuits, which must have common parts at this time (common part of > > flp pulse generator counter and link tp detector counter). > > > > Maybe it allows creation of some additional diagnostic circuit. > > > > Last thing is, i want to drive HPWT led directly from xilinx and 144 > > variant have more pins, which may i connect together (parallel) and > > driving will be stronger. > > > > > > Jakub Ladman > > (I wrote this fucking short mail about half hour in english.) > > > > -- > > Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com > > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From clock at twibright.com Sun Oct 22 14:51:25 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 15:51:25 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] spoj v Tisnove In-Reply-To: <000501c6e659$305d3350$5046a8c0@cipis.net> References: <000501c6e659$305d3350$5046a8c0@cipis.net> Message-ID: <20061022135125.GA19861@kestrel.twibright.com> On Mon, Oct 02, 2006 at 09:30:14PM +0200, Cipis wrote: > mno, tak jsem prece jenom udelal nejake fotky: > http://www.cipis.net/ronja/foto/cipis.net/01_provizorka/ Diky, uz jsem to pridal do galerie. CL< > > je to fakt provizorka > (nezapojene kabely od vyhrivani, kabely k tx a rx volne vysici a vedouci do > prujezdu, kde je na zemi twister a hack_switch, ...) > no proste bleee :-) > > Cipis > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From krepa at seznam.cz Sun Oct 22 22:49:43 2006 From: krepa at seznam.cz (Pavel Krejci) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 23:49:43 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] First link with spider In-Reply-To: <200610221517.48110.ladmanj@volny.cz> References: <200610161517.33359.ladmanj@volny.cz> <200610201829.53470.ladmanj@volny.cz> <20061021084004.GB10729@kestrel.twibright.com> <200610221517.48110.ladmanj@volny.cz> Message-ID: <453BE777.8080405@seznam.cz> Jakub, do not forget that there are two constraints. One is how much you can draw from single pin. Other one is how much you can draw from whole chip. Usually total allowed consumption is not equal to single pin consumption mutliplied by number of available pins. PK Jakub Ladman napsal(a): > Dne sobota 21 ??jen 2006 10:40 Karel Kulhavy napsal(a): >> On Fri, Oct 20, 2006 at 06:29:53PM +0200, Jakub Ladman wrote: >>>>> Respectively a new version must be created with XC95144XL, because of >>>>> limitation of XC9572XL, and i want to do it completely in gschem and >>>>> pcb. >>>> What limitations are there? >>> I need to append idle detector, i have packet detector, but it makes >>> problems if there is not idle (link is corrupted) there is a noise, which >>> opens a "packet gate" (contains something faster than idle) and in this >>> case, spider (but twister too) forwards this noise to a nic or switch and >>> it causes link fall, and maybe switch is employed by this shit. >> Zil0gator from #z80 said that the synthesized code is about 2x bigger than >> when you assign the cells in the Xilinx manually. Do you think it could be >> optimized this way to use a smaller chip? >> >> CL< > > I do not know, but i think it will help not enough, the number of registers > used, i have in my own controll, and i am 100% sure i need 100 registers at > optimum, but i have only 72 in XC9572XL. > On market is XC95108 with 108 registers, but this is a obsolete 5V part in > unpractical big package only. It is not recomended for new designs. > The XC95144XLVQ100 is the cheapest and smallest device with enough registers. > It is about 100 - 22 pins = 78 pins for driving LED, it is 39 and 39 for > PUSH - PULL driving. > I think with this bigger device it will be anyway better and the rise of cost > will be not as big. > > Jakub > >>> This idle detector fits not into XC9572XL >>> >>> Also if i will have 144 registers instead of 72, i will separate better >>> sub circuits, which must have common parts at this time (common part of >>> flp pulse generator counter and link tp detector counter). >>> >>> Maybe it allows creation of some additional diagnostic circuit. >>> >>> Last thing is, i want to drive HPWT led directly from xilinx and 144 >>> variant have more pins, which may i connect together (parallel) and >>> driving will be stronger. >>> >>> >>> Jakub Ladman >>> (I wrote this fucking short mail about half hour in english.) >>> >>> -- >>> Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com >>> Ronja at lists.pointless.net >>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > From ladmanj at volny.cz Sun Oct 22 23:06:42 2006 From: ladmanj at volny.cz (Jakub Ladman) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 00:06:42 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] First link with spider In-Reply-To: <453BE777.8080405@seznam.cz> References: <200610161517.33359.ladmanj@volny.cz> <200610221517.48110.ladmanj@volny.cz> <453BE777.8080405@seznam.cz> Message-ID: <200610230006.42813.ladmanj@volny.cz> Dne ned?le 22 ??jen 2006 23:49 Pavel Krejci napsal(a): > Jakub, > do not forget that there are two constraints. > One is how much you can draw from single pin. > Other one is how much you can draw from whole chip. > Usually total allowed consumption is not equal to > single pin consumption mutliplied by number of available pins. Yes i know. I have tested it succesfuly with 11 and 11 pins in PUSH-PULL configuration. With 39 and 39 pins it may have more sharper edges with the same total power dissipation. Jakub Ladman > > PK > > Jakub Ladman napsal(a): > > Dne sobota 21 ??jen 2006 10:40 Karel Kulhavy napsal(a): > >> On Fri, Oct 20, 2006 at 06:29:53PM +0200, Jakub Ladman wrote: > >>>>> Respectively a new version must be created with XC95144XL, because of > >>>>> limitation of XC9572XL, and i want to do it completely in gschem and > >>>>> pcb. > >>>> > >>>> What limitations are there? > >>> > >>> I need to append idle detector, i have packet detector, but it makes > >>> problems if there is not idle (link is corrupted) there is a noise, > >>> which opens a "packet gate" (contains something faster than idle) and > >>> in this case, spider (but twister too) forwards this noise to a nic or > >>> switch and it causes link fall, and maybe switch is employed by this > >>> shit. > >> > >> Zil0gator from #z80 said that the synthesized code is about 2x bigger > >> than when you assign the cells in the Xilinx manually. Do you think it > >> could be optimized this way to use a smaller chip? > >> > >> CL< > > > > I do not know, but i think it will help not enough, the number of > > registers used, i have in my own controll, and i am 100% sure i need 100 > > registers at optimum, but i have only 72 in XC9572XL. > > On market is XC95108 with 108 registers, but this is a obsolete 5V part > > in unpractical big package only. It is not recomended for new designs. > > The XC95144XLVQ100 is the cheapest and smallest device with enough > > registers. It is about 100 - 22 pins = 78 pins for driving LED, it is 39 > > and 39 for PUSH - PULL driving. > > I think with this bigger device it will be anyway better and the rise of > > cost will be not as big. > > > > Jakub > > > >>> This idle detector fits not into XC9572XL > >>> > >>> Also if i will have 144 registers instead of 72, i will separate better > >>> sub circuits, which must have common parts at this time (common part of > >>> flp pulse generator counter and link tp detector counter). > >>> > >>> Maybe it allows creation of some additional diagnostic circuit. > >>> > >>> Last thing is, i want to drive HPWT led directly from xilinx and 144 > >>> variant have more pins, which may i connect together (parallel) and > >>> driving will be stronger. > >>> > >>> > >>> Jakub Ladman > >>> (I wrote this fucking short mail about half hour in english.) > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com > >>> Ronja at lists.pointless.net > >>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From clock at twibright.com Mon Oct 23 13:08:55 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 14:08:55 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] First link with spider In-Reply-To: <453BE777.8080405@seznam.cz> References: <200610161517.33359.ladmanj@volny.cz> <200610201829.53470.ladmanj@volny.cz> <20061021084004.GB10729@kestrel.twibright.com> <200610221517.48110.ladmanj@volny.cz> <453BE777.8080405@seznam.cz> Message-ID: <20061023120854.GA18022@kestrel.twibright.com> On Sun, Oct 22, 2006 at 11:49:43PM +0200, Pavel Krejci wrote: > Jakub, > do not forget that there are two constraints. > One is how much you can draw from single pin. > Other one is how much you can draw from whole chip. > Usually total allowed consumption is not equal to > single pin consumption mutliplied by number of available pins. Is a military or industrial version of the chip easily and cheaply available? If not it doesn't make sense to put a LED on it because it has to run in the external temperature range. CL< > > PK > > Jakub Ladman napsal(a): > > Dne sobota 21 ??jen 2006 10:40 Karel Kulhavy napsal(a): > >> On Fri, Oct 20, 2006 at 06:29:53PM +0200, Jakub Ladman wrote: > >>>>> Respectively a new version must be created with XC95144XL, because of > >>>>> limitation of XC9572XL, and i want to do it completely in gschem and > >>>>> pcb. > >>>> What limitations are there? > >>> I need to append idle detector, i have packet detector, but it makes > >>> problems if there is not idle (link is corrupted) there is a noise, which > >>> opens a "packet gate" (contains something faster than idle) and in this > >>> case, spider (but twister too) forwards this noise to a nic or switch and > >>> it causes link fall, and maybe switch is employed by this shit. > >> Zil0gator from #z80 said that the synthesized code is about 2x bigger than > >> when you assign the cells in the Xilinx manually. Do you think it could be > >> optimized this way to use a smaller chip? > >> > >> CL< > > > > I do not know, but i think it will help not enough, the number of registers > > used, i have in my own controll, and i am 100% sure i need 100 registers at > > optimum, but i have only 72 in XC9572XL. > > On market is XC95108 with 108 registers, but this is a obsolete 5V part in > > unpractical big package only. It is not recomended for new designs. > > The XC95144XLVQ100 is the cheapest and smallest device with enough registers. > > It is about 100 - 22 pins = 78 pins for driving LED, it is 39 and 39 for > > PUSH - PULL driving. > > I think with this bigger device it will be anyway better and the rise of cost > > will be not as big. > > > > Jakub > > > >>> This idle detector fits not into XC9572XL > >>> > >>> Also if i will have 144 registers instead of 72, i will separate better > >>> sub circuits, which must have common parts at this time (common part of > >>> flp pulse generator counter and link tp detector counter). > >>> > >>> Maybe it allows creation of some additional diagnostic circuit. > >>> > >>> Last thing is, i want to drive HPWT led directly from xilinx and 144 > >>> variant have more pins, which may i connect together (parallel) and > >>> driving will be stronger. > >>> > >>> > >>> Jakub Ladman > >>> (I wrote this fucking short mail about half hour in english.) > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com > >>> Ronja at lists.pointless.net > >>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > > > > -- > Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From clock at twibright.com Mon Oct 23 13:10:07 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 14:10:07 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] First link with spider In-Reply-To: <200610230006.42813.ladmanj@volny.cz> References: <200610161517.33359.ladmanj@volny.cz> <200610221517.48110.ladmanj@volny.cz> <453BE777.8080405@seznam.cz> <200610230006.42813.ladmanj@volny.cz> Message-ID: <20061023121007.GB18022@kestrel.twibright.com> On Mon, Oct 23, 2006 at 12:06:42AM +0200, Jakub Ladman wrote: > Dne ned?le 22 ??jen 2006 23:49 Pavel Krejci napsal(a): > > Jakub, > > do not forget that there are two constraints. > > One is how much you can draw from single pin. > > Other one is how much you can draw from whole chip. > > Usually total allowed consumption is not equal to > > single pin consumption mutliplied by number of available pins. > > Yes i know. > I have tested it succesfuly with 11 and 11 pins in PUSH-PULL configuration. > With 39 and 39 pins it may have more sharper edges with the same total power > dissipation. I have tested something successfully is an irrelevant argument in design. The question is if this is allowed according to the published operating conditions. CL< > > Jakub Ladman > > > > > PK > > > > Jakub Ladman napsal(a): > > > Dne sobota 21 ??jen 2006 10:40 Karel Kulhavy napsal(a): > > >> On Fri, Oct 20, 2006 at 06:29:53PM +0200, Jakub Ladman wrote: > > >>>>> Respectively a new version must be created with XC95144XL, because of > > >>>>> limitation of XC9572XL, and i want to do it completely in gschem and > > >>>>> pcb. > > >>>> > > >>>> What limitations are there? > > >>> > > >>> I need to append idle detector, i have packet detector, but it makes > > >>> problems if there is not idle (link is corrupted) there is a noise, > > >>> which opens a "packet gate" (contains something faster than idle) and > > >>> in this case, spider (but twister too) forwards this noise to a nic or > > >>> switch and it causes link fall, and maybe switch is employed by this > > >>> shit. > > >> > > >> Zil0gator from #z80 said that the synthesized code is about 2x bigger > > >> than when you assign the cells in the Xilinx manually. Do you think it > > >> could be optimized this way to use a smaller chip? > > >> > > >> CL< > > > > > > I do not know, but i think it will help not enough, the number of > > > registers used, i have in my own controll, and i am 100% sure i need 100 > > > registers at optimum, but i have only 72 in XC9572XL. > > > On market is XC95108 with 108 registers, but this is a obsolete 5V part > > > in unpractical big package only. It is not recomended for new designs. > > > The XC95144XLVQ100 is the cheapest and smallest device with enough > > > registers. It is about 100 - 22 pins = 78 pins for driving LED, it is 39 > > > and 39 for PUSH - PULL driving. > > > I think with this bigger device it will be anyway better and the rise of > > > cost will be not as big. > > > > > > Jakub > > > > > >>> This idle detector fits not into XC9572XL > > >>> > > >>> Also if i will have 144 registers instead of 72, i will separate better > > >>> sub circuits, which must have common parts at this time (common part of > > >>> flp pulse generator counter and link tp detector counter). > > >>> > > >>> Maybe it allows creation of some additional diagnostic circuit. > > >>> > > >>> Last thing is, i want to drive HPWT led directly from xilinx and 144 > > >>> variant have more pins, which may i connect together (parallel) and > > >>> driving will be stronger. > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> Jakub Ladman > > >>> (I wrote this fucking short mail about half hour in english.) > > >>> > > >>> -- > > >>> Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com > > >>> Ronja at lists.pointless.net > > >>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > -- > Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From krepa at seznam.cz Mon Oct 23 17:22:26 2006 From: krepa at seznam.cz (=?us-ascii?Q?Pavel=20Krejci?=) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 18:22:26 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [Ronja] First link with spider In-Reply-To: <20061023120854.GA18022@kestrel.twibright.com> Message-ID: <325.1084-16829-522025984-1161620547@seznam.cz> > ------------ P?vodn? zpr?va ------------ > Od: Karel Kulhavy > P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] First link with spider > Datum: 23.10.2006 14:09:31 > ---------------------------------------- > On Sun, Oct 22, 2006 at 11:49:43PM +0200, Pavel Krejci wrote: > > Jakub, > > do not forget that there are two constraints. > > One is how much you can draw from single pin. > > Other one is how much you can draw from whole chip. > > Usually total allowed consumption is not equal to > > single pin consumption mutliplied by number of available pins. > > Is a military or industrial version of the chip easily and cheaply available? > If not it doesn't make sense to put a LED on it because it has to run in the > external temperature range. > > CL< > For a few cents more yes. No prob. At least in CZ. PK From clock at twibright.com Tue Oct 24 09:57:46 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 10:57:46 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] First link with spider In-Reply-To: <325.1084-16829-522025984-1161620547@seznam.cz> References: <20061023120854.GA18022@kestrel.twibright.com> <325.1084-16829-522025984-1161620547@seznam.cz> Message-ID: <20061024085746.GA15505@kestrel.twibright.com> On Mon, Oct 23, 2006 at 06:22:26PM +0200, Pavel Krejci wrote: > > > ------------ P?vodn? zpr?va ------------ > > Od: Karel Kulhavy > > P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] First link with spider > > Datum: 23.10.2006 14:09:31 > > ---------------------------------------- > > On Sun, Oct 22, 2006 at 11:49:43PM +0200, Pavel Krejci wrote: > > > Jakub, > > > do not forget that there are two constraints. > > > One is how much you can draw from single pin. > > > Other one is how much you can draw from whole chip. > > > Usually total allowed consumption is not equal to > > > single pin consumption mutliplied by number of available pins. > > > > Is a military or industrial version of the chip easily and cheaply available? > > If not it doesn't make sense to put a LED on it because it has to run in the > > external temperature range. > > > > CL< > > > > For a few cents more yes. No prob. At least in CZ. How is the clock made? From external oscillator, some simple gate oscillator or some built-in circuit in the Xilinx that drives crystal? CL< From ladmanj at volny.cz Tue Oct 24 13:05:39 2006 From: ladmanj at volny.cz (Jakub Ladman) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 14:05:39 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] First link with spider In-Reply-To: <20061024085746.GA15505@kestrel.twibright.com> References: <20061023120854.GA18022@kestrel.twibright.com> <325.1084-16829-522025984-1161620547@seznam.cz> <20061024085746.GA15505@kestrel.twibright.com> Message-ID: <200610241405.39314.ladmanj@volny.cz> Dne ?ter? 24 ??jen 2006 10:57 Karel Kulhavy napsal(a): > On Mon, Oct 23, 2006 at 06:22:26PM +0200, Pavel Krejci wrote: > > > ------------ P?vodn? zpr?va ------------ > > > Od: Karel Kulhavy > > > P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] First link with spider > > > Datum: 23.10.2006 14:09:31 > > > ---------------------------------------- > > > > > > On Sun, Oct 22, 2006 at 11:49:43PM +0200, Pavel Krejci wrote: > > > > Jakub, > > > > do not forget that there are two constraints. > > > > One is how much you can draw from single pin. > > > > Other one is how much you can draw from whole chip. > > > > Usually total allowed consumption is not equal to > > > > single pin consumption mutliplied by number of available pins. > > > > > > Is a military or industrial version of the chip easily and cheaply > > > available? If not it doesn't make sense to put a LED on it because it > > > has to run in the external temperature range. > > > > > > CL< > > > > For a few cents more yes. No prob. At least in CZ. > > How is the clock made? From external oscillator, some simple gate > oscillator or some built-in circuit in the Xilinx that drives crystal? External oscillator, in the prototypes are SMD programmable oscillator from EPSON, but they are too expensive. In a new version will be stadndard DIL packaged 32MHz oscillator. I have tryed transistor oscillator, but i have failed. 32MHz needs third overtone xtal and oscillator must be tuned by a inductor, therefore integrated oscillator will be much better. Jakub PS: Before you try to ask me the stupid question, why is there 32MHz oscillator instead of 16MHz like in twister, i write the answer - Because of Shannon law and input signal edges chatching with digital only circuit. (16MHz < 2 * 10MHz) > > CL< From jdb at lartmaker.nl Tue Oct 24 15:13:51 2006 From: jdb at lartmaker.nl (J.D. Bakker) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 16:13:51 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] First link with spider In-Reply-To: <200610241405.39314.ladmanj@volny.cz> References: <20061023120854.GA18022@kestrel.twibright.com> <325.1084-16829-522025984-1161620547@seznam.cz> <20061024085746.GA15505@kestrel.twibright.com> <200610241405.39314.ladmanj@volny.cz> Message-ID: >Dne ?ter? 24 ??jen 2006 10:57 Karel Kulhavy napsal(a): > > How is the clock made? From external oscillator, some simple gate >> oscillator or some built-in circuit in the Xilinx that drives crystal? > >External oscillator, in the prototypes are SMD programmable oscillator from >EPSON, but they are too expensive. In a new version will be stadndard DIL >packaged 32MHz oscillator. >I have tryed transistor oscillator, but i have failed. >32MHz needs third overtone xtal and oscillator must be tuned by a inductor, >therefore integrated oscillator will be much better. Just for the record, but 32MHz fundamental resonance crystals do exist (and are available in qty1); for example Abracon ABM3B-32.000MHZ-B2-T and ABMM-32.000MHZ-B2F-T, both available from Digi-Key for about EUR1. For the general design I would agree that a standard canned oscillator is much easier for people to build (less tolerance issues, less things to go wrong). JDB [who is right now trying to figure out how to design a 150MHz VCO that is easy to reproduce by re-builders] -- LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files. http://www.lartmaker.nl/ From clock at twibright.com Tue Oct 24 17:39:09 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 18:39:09 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] First link with spider In-Reply-To: <200610241405.39314.ladmanj@volny.cz> References: <20061023120854.GA18022@kestrel.twibright.com> <325.1084-16829-522025984-1161620547@seznam.cz> <20061024085746.GA15505@kestrel.twibright.com> <200610241405.39314.ladmanj@volny.cz> Message-ID: <20061024163909.GA11995@kestrel.twibright.com> On Tue, Oct 24, 2006 at 02:05:39PM +0200, Jakub Ladman wrote: > > How is the clock made? From external oscillator, some simple gate > > oscillator or some built-in circuit in the Xilinx that drives crystal? > > External oscillator, in the prototypes are SMD programmable oscillator from > EPSON, but they are too expensive. In a new version will be stadndard DIL > packaged 32MHz oscillator. Is the oscillator easily available in military or industrial temperature range? > I have tryed transistor oscillator, but i have failed. > 32MHz needs third overtone xtal and oscillator must be tuned by a inductor, > therefore integrated oscillator will be much better. > > Jakub > > PS: Before you try to ask me the stupid question, why is there 32MHz > oscillator instead of 16MHz like in twister, i write the answer - Because of > Shannon law and input signal edges chatching with digital only circuit. > (16MHz < 2 * 10MHz) Are you sampling the signal in the process? Does it mean that on the input the signal comes with edge in any possible time point and at output the edge can be only in predetermined discrete times given by the crystal? CL< From clock at twibright.com Tue Oct 24 17:53:19 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 18:53:19 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Easy setting full duplex on OpenBSD Message-ID: <20061024165319.GA27665@kestrel.twibright.com> Switching an ethernet card to 10Mbps full duplex is as simple as this: root at kestrel:~$ ifconfig fxp0 media 10baseT mediaopt full-duplex The network card mode is printed directly in ifconfig: root at kestrel:~$ ifconfig fxp0 fxp0: flags=8843 mtu 1500 lladdr 00:11:43:52:46:e7 groups: egress media: Ethernet 10baseT full-duplex status: active inet6 fe80::211:43ff:fe52:46e7%fxp0 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x2 inet 192.168.2.59 netmask 0xffffff00 broadcast 192.168.2.255 The path to documentation is straightforward: 1) "ifconfig" tells the card type (fxp0 -> fxp) 2) man fxp 3) seach for "duplex": The following media types and options (as given to ifconfig(8)) are sup- ported: media autoselect Enable autoselection of the media type and options (default). media 100baseTX mediaopt full-duplex Set 100Mbps (Fast Ethernet) operation and force full-duplex mode. media 100baseTX mediaopt half-duplex Set 100Mbps (Fast Ethernet) operation and force half-duplex mode. media 10baseT mediaopt full-duplex Set 10Mbps operation and force full-duplex. media 10baseT mediaopt half-duplex Set 10Mbps operation and force half-duplex. CL< From ladmanj at volny.cz Tue Oct 24 19:11:43 2006 From: ladmanj at volny.cz (Jakub Ladman) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 20:11:43 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] First link with spider In-Reply-To: <20061024163909.GA11995@kestrel.twibright.com> References: <20061023120854.GA18022@kestrel.twibright.com> <200610241405.39314.ladmanj@volny.cz> <20061024163909.GA11995@kestrel.twibright.com> Message-ID: <200610242011.43689.ladmanj@volny.cz> > Is the oscillator easily available in military or industrial temperature > range? Which one? > Are you sampling the signal in the process? Does it mean that on the input > the signal comes with edge in any possible time point and at output the > edge can be only in predetermined discrete times given by the crystal? > Sorry i am not sure if i understand. This is so complicated to translate from english. But if i understand - yes in discrete times, but this is only for the detection, the signal flows from NIC thru xilinx to TX and from RX thru xilinx to NIC without any sampling. There are a pictures of the circuit. edge_catch.png is connected to 32MHz clock and signal from ethernet and, in its second instance, from RX. packet_detector.png is connected to 16MHz clock and output from catch_edge.png, its output is at high level, if packet is transmitted. This only enables the direct way of signal. But i do not know, why i must allways espouse my design. You can read the verilog code on the spider web. There is not the actual version, but this question is irrelevant, if you are familiar to it. Jakub Ladman -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: packet_detector.png Type: image/png Size: 5552 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20061024/0e94d833/attachment-0003.png From antitron at web.de Tue Oct 24 20:37:17 2006 From: antitron at web.de (Thomas Egenhofer) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 21:37:17 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] idea about fast package detection on TP-line In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1161718637.15476.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> hi guys, i'm back with a new idea which most likely might have an issue i didn't think of but it ... could.. work .. so here's the idea: while i tried to get my own spider circuit to work i found something interesting which would simplify/fasten the detection of an incoming package on the TP lines. atm the line-receiver ic has still one unused input. just connect this one to the other input which is receiver the TP signals but change the polarity. you will get 2 outputs. if no data is coming both should be low. is a link burst arrives the "normal" line receiver would jump to high, the second would stay low during this time and go high after the first one... according to IEEE standart it shouldn't happen that a link burst would cause the first receiver to go high after the second. well if a package comes same thing would happen but the first would go high after the second again. so basicaly you can say. if the second receiver is high and the first one jumps to high again there has to be an incoming package. advantage: the whole thing would only need 2 bit-times to detect a package which is (at least i think so) less than the current spider stuff. i'm just posting since i ran into trouble with my cheap router. perhaps it clears out a few makrocells,too(i dont know.. but might be). drawback: you need to solder 1 wire more form receiver ic->cpld and 2 to connect the 2 receiver inputs together;) so what do you think? worth a try? greetings thomas e From info at martenvijn.nl Tue Oct 24 20:32:30 2006 From: info at martenvijn.nl (Marten) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 21:32:30 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Easy setting full duplex on OpenBSD In-Reply-To: <20061024165319.GA27665@kestrel.twibright.com> References: <20061024165319.GA27665@kestrel.twibright.com> Message-ID: <1161718350.770.6.camel@workstation.martenvijn.nl> On Tue, 2006-10-24 at 18:53 +0200, Karel Kulhavy wrote: > Switching an ethernet card to 10Mbps full duplex is as simple as this: > root at kestrel:~$ ifconfig fxp0 media 10baseT mediaopt full-duplex > > The path to documentation is straightforward: > 1) "ifconfig" tells the card type (fxp0 -> fxp) > 2) man fxp > 3) seach for "duplex": there is even a shorter way ifconfig -m fxp0 This works for openbsd & freebsd (try ifconfig -l on freebsd to list your interfaces) nice way check also the capabilities of your wireless interfaces Marten From ladmanj at volny.cz Thu Oct 26 21:27:11 2006 From: ladmanj at volny.cz (Jakub Ladman) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 22:27:11 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] idea about fast package detection on TP-line In-Reply-To: <1161718637.15476.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1161718637.15476.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <200610262227.11723.ladmanj@volny.cz> Sorry i do not understand it surely. Try to write it in German (i think You are German) i know German little bit. Or draw a picture :-) What receiver did you use? I understand the detection of a pulse on only one wire, but how to detect that link comes down? I have 32ms to get at least one pulse from TP, it is the most register consumming part. I understand it, that You are able to discriminate if there are packet or flp pulses, but how to get information if link is up or down? Jakub Ladman Dne ?ter? 24 ??jen 2006 21:37 Thomas Egenhofer napsal(a): > hi guys, > > i'm back with a new idea which most likely might have an issue i didn't > think of but it ... could.. work .. so here's the idea: > > while i tried to get my own spider circuit to work i found something > interesting which would simplify/fasten the detection of an incoming > package on the TP lines. > atm the line-receiver ic has still one unused input. just connect this > one to the other input which is receiver the TP signals but change the > polarity. you will get 2 outputs. if no data is coming both should be > low. is a link burst arrives the "normal" line receiver would jump to > high, the second would stay low during this time and go high after the > first one... according to IEEE standart it shouldn't happen that a link > burst would cause the first receiver to go high after the second. > well if a package comes same thing would happen but the first would go > high after the second again. > so basicaly you can say. if the second receiver is high and the first > one jumps to high again there has to be an incoming package. > advantage: the whole thing would only need 2 bit-times to detect a > package which is (at least i think so) less than the current spider > stuff. > i'm just posting since i ran into trouble with my cheap router. > perhaps it clears out a few makrocells,too(i dont know.. but might be). > drawback: you need to solder 1 wire more form receiver ic->cpld and 2 to > connect the 2 receiver inputs together;) > > so what do you think? worth a try? > > greetings > thomas e From antitron at web.de Thu Oct 26 22:52:48 2006 From: antitron at web.de (Thomas Egenhofer) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 23:52:48 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] idea about fast package detection on TP-line In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1161899568.12210.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> > Sorry i do not understand it surely. > Try to write it in German (i think You are German) i know German little bit. > Or draw a picture :-) jep i'm german^^ > What receiver did you use? no real receiver but the receiver ic's.. same as twister ones. they are pin-compatible with the one in the original spider. > I understand the detection of a pulse on only one wire, but how to detect that > link comes down? hm.. well i didnt think about link-detection because my cheap realteck chips got packet errors (i cant tell for sure but i somehow believe it's preamble related)... you can still use your all the code for link detection. > I have 32ms to get at least one pulse from TP, it is the > most register consumming part. so the counters are eating a lot of registers? > I understand it, that You are able to discriminate if there are packet or flp > pulses, but how to get information if link is up or down? what about we assume that a link is always present and always sending FLP's? i didn't read this part of the IEEE very well but shouldn't it be just fine? do you know how much bit's of the preamble of a packet are lost for a complete transmission (send/receive)? > Jakub Ladman > > Dne ?ter? 24 ??jen 2006 21:37 Thomas Egenhofer napsal(a): > > hi guys, > > > > i'm back with a new idea which most likely might have an issue i didn't > > think of but it ... could.. work .. so here's the idea: > > > > while i tried to get my own spider circuit to work i found something > > interesting which would simplify/fasten the detection of an incoming > > package on the TP lines. > > atm the line-receiver ic has still one unused input. just connect this > > one to the other input which is receiver the TP signals but change the > > polarity. you will get 2 outputs. if no data is coming both should be > > low. is a link burst arrives the "normal" line receiver would jump to > > high, the second would stay low during this time and go high after the > > first one... according to IEEE standart it shouldn't happen that a link > > burst would cause the first receiver to go high after the second. > > well if a package comes same thing would happen but the first would go > > high after the second again. > > so basicaly you can say. if the second receiver is high and the first > > one jumps to high again there has to be an incoming package. > > advantage: the whole thing would only need 2 bit-times to detect a > > package which is (at least i think so) less than the current spider > > stuff. > > i'm just posting since i ran into trouble with my cheap router. > > perhaps it clears out a few makrocells,too(i dont know.. but might be). > > drawback: you need to solder 1 wire more form receiver ic->cpld and 2 to > > connect the 2 receiver inputs together;) > > > > so what do you think? worth a try? > > > > greetings > > thomas e From ladmanj at volny.cz Fri Oct 27 07:32:46 2006 From: ladmanj at volny.cz (Jakub Ladman) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 08:32:46 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] idea about fast package detection on TP-line In-Reply-To: <1161899568.12210.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1161899568.12210.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <200610270832.46917.ladmanj@volny.cz> Dne ?tvrtek 26 ??jen 2006 23:52 Thomas Egenhofer napsal(a): > > Sorry i do not understand it surely. > > Try to write it in German (i think You are German) i know German little > > bit. Or draw a picture :-) > > jep i'm german^^ > > > What receiver did you use? > > no real receiver but the receiver ic's.. same as twister ones. they are > pin-compatible with the one in the original spider. > > > I understand the detection of a pulse on only one wire, but how to detect > > that link comes down? > > hm.. well i didnt think about link-detection because my cheap realteck > chips got packet errors (i cant tell for sure but i somehow believe it's > preamble related)... you can still use your all the code for link > detection. > > > I have 32ms to get at least one pulse from TP, it is the > > most register consumming part. > > so the counters are eating a lot of registers? Not the counters at all, but this one. If i would to make the link detection independent of any other circuit, i will need 20 bit counter 32MHz / 2^20 = 30.52 Hz ....32,768ms In real i have only 6 bits independent and it is driven by other counter, which is reseted if packet is coming from the optics. It not affects the function, because if there are packet, there is no need to scan for link on tp. > > > I understand it, that You are able to discriminate if there are packet or > > flp pulses, but how to get information if link is up or down? > > what about we assume that a link is always present and always sending > FLP's? i didn't read this part of the IEEE very well but shouldn't it be > just fine? It is not possible, the flp burst must be sent only eight times (after link appears), than only nlp pulses may be tranmitted. I have tryed continuous transmittion of flp bursts, but it causes the NIC resets itself periodicaly. It is known as renegotiation and it is problem. Well i must discriminate if the link comes up and than tramsmit eight flp bursts. > > do you know how much bit's of the preamble of a packet are lost for a > complete transmission (send/receive)? I do not know exactly, but it may differ from NIC to NIC (by types, not by pieces :-) ) > Do you know how reliable is the packet detection you discovered? It may be much faster, but i don't know anything about the reliability. > > Jakub Ladman > > > > Dne ?ter? 24 ??jen 2006 21:37 Thomas Egenhofer napsal(a): > > > hi guys, > > > > > > i'm back with a new idea which most likely might have an issue i didn't > > > think of but it ... could.. work .. so here's the idea: > > > > > > while i tried to get my own spider circuit to work i found something > > > interesting which would simplify/fasten the detection of an incoming > > > package on the TP lines. > > > atm the line-receiver ic has still one unused input. just connect this > > > one to the other input which is receiver the TP signals but change the > > > polarity. you will get 2 outputs. if no data is coming both should be > > > low. is a link burst arrives the "normal" line receiver would jump to > > > high, the second would stay low during this time and go high after the > > > first one... according to IEEE standart it shouldn't happen that a link > > > burst would cause the first receiver to go high after the second. > > > well if a package comes same thing would happen but the first would go > > > high after the second again. > > > so basicaly you can say. if the second receiver is high and the first > > > one jumps to high again there has to be an incoming package. > > > advantage: the whole thing would only need 2 bit-times to detect a > > > package which is (at least i think so) less than the current spider > > > stuff. > > > i'm just posting since i ran into trouble with my cheap router. > > > perhaps it clears out a few makrocells,too(i dont know.. but might be). > > > drawback: you need to solder 1 wire more form receiver ic->cpld and 2 > > > to connect the 2 receiver inputs together;) > > > > > > so what do you think? worth a try? > > > > > > greetings > > > thomas e From clock at twibright.com Fri Oct 27 14:52:27 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 15:52:27 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Why not care about fog influence on Ronja Message-ID: <20061027135227.GA29353@kestrel.twibright.com> "And you can't drive as fast when it's raining, even though your car has windshield wipers and headlights and a roof and a heater, all of which protect you from caring about the fact that it's raining (they abstract away the weather), but lo, you have to worry about hydroplaning (or aquaplaning in England) and sometimes the rain is so strong you can't see very far ahead so you go slower in the rain, because the weather can never be completely abstracted away, because of the law of leaky abstractions." http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/LeakyAbstractions.html CL< From antitron at web.de Sat Oct 28 13:57:23 2006 From: antitron at web.de (Thomas Egenhofer) Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 14:57:23 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] idea about fast package detection on TP-line In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1162040243.2351.89.camel@localhost.localdomain> > > > I understand the detection of a pulse on only one wire, but how to detect > > > that link comes down? > > > > hm.. well i didnt think about link-detection because my cheap realteck > > chips got packet errors (i cant tell for sure but i somehow believe it's > > preamble related)... you can still use your all the code for link > > detection. > > > > > I have 32ms to get at least one pulse from TP, it is the > > > most register consumming part. > > > > so the counters are eating a lot of registers? > > Not the counters at all, but this one. If i would to make the link detection > independent of any other circuit, i will need 20 bit counter 32MHz / 2^20 = > 30.52 Hz ....32,768ms > In real i have only 6 bits independent and it is driven by other counter, > which is reseted if packet is coming from the optics. It not affects the > function, because if there are packet, there is no need to scan for link on > tp. > > > I understand it, that You are able to discriminate if there are packet or > > > flp pulses, but how to get information if link is up or down? > > > > what about we assume that a link is always present and always sending > > FLP's? i didn't read this part of the IEEE very well but shouldn't it be > > just fine? > > It is not possible, the flp burst must be sent only eight times (after link > appears), than only nlp pulses may be tranmitted. > I have tryed continuous transmittion of flp bursts, but it causes the NIC > resets itself periodicaly. It is known as renegotiation and it is problem. > Well i must discriminate if the link comes up and than tramsmit eight flp > bursts. i might.. have something quite tricky to understand. not all to different from the bit-syncronisation part of my rs232 fso, somewhat modified... lets ... just assume that we have a circuit-part which is permanently sending FLP's (without beeing reset). and one which is blocking every pulse of a FLP-series except for the first one. the output of the "blocking-circuit" should be the normal link-bursts. (same would work the other way around... a normal pulse generator and one which add's the flp's after.. might be even better). now you can use a simple RS-FF and connect it(the set-input) to the TP receiver. everytime the simple link-burst generator goes high a D-ff at the output of the RS-ff can read the state of the rs-ff. if the link-burst generator goes low again the RS-ff would be reset. on the D-FF output you should have a clean link-present value. -there might occur the case where a incoming pulse is sampled between D-FF set and RS-FF reset, and it's not IEEE conform. to prevent this you could use the pulse-generator as clock input to a 1bit counter and ADD the logic signals of this counter with it's input. .you would get a "every-second-link-pulse" generator which can drive the RS-FF and D-FF inputs. (this can be done more than once since IEEE says link-loss between 50 and 150ms ,if i read it right^^.. well one divider should already be able to reliably detect a link's presence for any possible case.) this above will result in some non-perfect timing when it comes to the start of sending link-pulses after a outgoing package. however i'm not 100% shure about the pulses will still be IEEE if the counter wont be reset after a package came though the optics... silence timing and such. maybe someone else can clear this. > > do you know how much bit's of the preamble of a packet are lost for a > > complete transmission (send/receive)? > > I do not know exactly, but it may differ from NIC to NIC (by types, not by > pieces :-) ) hm.. guess it's my router in this case... sending real packages dosent work but link detection and (i think) dhcp stuff too, works. > Do you know how reliable is the packet detection you discovered? It may be > much faster, but i don't know anything about the reliability. hm.. i haven't tested it so far since i'm still working on my rs232 fso (which i almost finished). for theory and IEEE stuff: it cleraly says "Once the differential output voltage has become more negative than ?50 mV, it shall remain less than +50 mV." well it might happen that it never goes negative but no problem either. a packet WOULD go negative so we never get the case of a high-after-low except when a package is incoming. so i guess it's should be perfectly fine and reliable since the receiver ic would require more than 100mV if i'm not wrong.... i don't expect any errors to happen=) all we would need to do is to start a counter as soon as the inverted receiver went "high" and check if the normal receiver goes high again. .. well now you can either use a second counter which will be reset everytime a 0->1 is detected or you use a RS-FF on front of the first counter and reset the first coutner instead.. well i dont know whats best to fit into these cpld regs. .. pretty confusing isn't it^^ if anyone has trouble in understanding just tell me and i'l draw a few schematics. From ladmanj at volny.cz Sat Oct 28 14:30:58 2006 From: ladmanj at volny.cz (Jakub Ladman) Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 15:30:58 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] idea about fast package detection on TP-line In-Reply-To: <1162040243.2351.89.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1162040243.2351.89.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <200610281530.58393.ladmanj@volny.cz> I understand it only partly. Both me and you, we are not so good english speakers. Try to draw the schematics, it will be readable by wide set of nations. Maybe by all :-) I know both ANSI and ISO schematic symbols :-D Jakub Ladman Dne sobota 28 ??jen 2006 14:57 Thomas Egenhofer napsal(a): > > > > I understand the detection of a pulse on only one wire, but how to > > > > detect that link comes down? > > > > > > hm.. well i didnt think about link-detection because my cheap realteck > > > chips got packet errors (i cant tell for sure but i somehow believe > > > it's preamble related)... you can still use your all the code for link > > > detection. > > > > > > > I have 32ms to get at least one pulse from TP, it is the > > > > most register consumming part. > > > > > > so the counters are eating a lot of registers? > > > > Not the counters at all, but this one. If i would to make the link > > detection independent of any other circuit, i will need 20 bit counter > > 32MHz / 2^20 = 30.52 Hz ....32,768ms > > In real i have only 6 bits independent and it is driven by other counter, > > which is reseted if packet is coming from the optics. It not affects the > > function, because if there are packet, there is no need to scan for link > > on tp. > > > > > > I understand it, that You are able to discriminate if there are > > > > packet or flp pulses, but how to get information if link is up or > > > > down? > > > > > > what about we assume that a link is always present and always sending > > > FLP's? i didn't read this part of the IEEE very well but shouldn't it > > > be just fine? > > > > It is not possible, the flp burst must be sent only eight times (after > > link appears), than only nlp pulses may be tranmitted. > > I have tryed continuous transmittion of flp bursts, but it causes the NIC > > resets itself periodicaly. It is known as renegotiation and it is > > problem. Well i must discriminate if the link comes up and than tramsmit > > eight flp bursts. > > i might.. have something quite tricky to understand. not all to > different from the bit-syncronisation part of my rs232 fso, somewhat > modified... > > lets ... just assume that we have a circuit-part which is permanently > sending FLP's (without beeing reset). > and one which is blocking every pulse of a FLP-series except for the > first one. > the output of the "blocking-circuit" should be the normal link-bursts. > (same would work the other way around... a normal pulse generator and > one which add's the flp's after.. might be even better). > > now you can use a simple RS-FF and connect it(the set-input) to the TP > receiver. everytime the simple link-burst generator goes high a D-ff at > the output of the RS-ff can read the state of the rs-ff. if the > link-burst generator goes low again the RS-ff would be reset. > on the D-FF output you should have a clean link-present value. > > -there might occur the case where a incoming pulse is sampled between > D-FF set and RS-FF reset, and it's not IEEE conform. to prevent this you > could use the pulse-generator as clock input to a 1bit counter and ADD > the logic signals of this counter with it's input. > .you would get a "every-second-link-pulse" generator which can drive the > RS-FF and D-FF inputs. > (this can be done more than once since IEEE says link-loss between 50 > and 150ms ,if i read it right^^.. well one divider should already be > able to reliably detect a link's presence for any possible case.) > > this above will result in some non-perfect timing when it comes to the > start of sending link-pulses after a outgoing package. > however i'm not 100% shure about the pulses will still be IEEE if the > counter wont be reset after a package came though the optics... silence > timing and such. maybe someone else can clear this. > > > > do you know how much bit's of the preamble of a packet are lost for a > > > complete transmission (send/receive)? > > > > I do not know exactly, but it may differ from NIC to NIC (by types, not > > by pieces :-) ) > > hm.. guess it's my router in this case... sending real packages dosent > work but link detection and (i think) dhcp stuff too, works. > > > Do you know how reliable is the packet detection you discovered? It may > > be much faster, but i don't know anything about the reliability. > > hm.. i haven't tested it so far since i'm still working on my rs232 fso > (which i almost finished). for theory and IEEE stuff: it cleraly says > "Once the differential output voltage has become more negative than ?50 > mV, it shall remain less than +50 mV." > well it might happen that it never goes negative but no problem either. > a packet WOULD go negative so we never get the case of a high-after-low > except when a package is incoming. > so i guess it's should be perfectly fine and reliable since the receiver > ic would require more than 100mV if i'm not wrong.... > i don't expect any errors to happen=) > > all we would need to do is to start a counter as soon as the inverted > receiver went "high" and check if the normal receiver goes high again. > .. well now you can either use a second counter which will be reset > everytime a 0->1 is detected or you use a RS-FF on front of the first > counter and reset the first coutner instead.. well i dont know whats > best to fit into these cpld regs. > > > .. pretty confusing isn't it^^ > if anyone has trouble in understanding just tell me and i'l draw a few > schematics. From antitron at web.de Sat Oct 28 15:38:28 2006 From: antitron at web.de (Thomas Egenhofer) Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 16:38:28 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] idea about fast package detection on TP-line In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1162046308.6708.21.camel@localhost.localdomain> > I understand it only partly. Both me and you, we are not so good english > speakers. i wonder about that.. but english wasn't made for circuits.. that's for shure :) > Try to draw the schematics, it will be readable by wide set of nations. Maybe > by all :-) > I know both ANSI and ISO schematic symbols :-D > > Jakub Ladman there you go =) (at least for the link-detection, though package detection is not much different) http://home.arcor.de/positiveelectron/files/link-detect.png this works as long as link pulses are being received AND generated(send). if sending the bursts stops due to a package being received on the optic-input you need to overwrite the output. since you already seems to have a link-detection while receiving a packet just OR-them together (or asyncron-set the D-FF). there might be some timing issues after the package end of an incoming package. but it shouldn't be to hard to solve them. ...might work on an instant,too. well if a single link-burst is not detected for what reason ever it could lose the link for a moment, under worst-case situation. it's only the basic idea so don't beat me up if it's not working perfectly. > Dne sobota 28 ??jen 2006 14:57 Thomas Egenhofer napsal(a): > > > > > I understand the detection of a pulse on only one wire, but how to > > > > > detect that link comes down? > > > > > > > > hm.. well i didnt think about link-detection because my cheap realteck > > > > chips got packet errors (i cant tell for sure but i somehow believe > > > > it's preamble related)... you can still use your all the code for link > > > > detection. > > > >........ > ... [snip] From ladmanj at volny.cz Sat Oct 28 16:41:54 2006 From: ladmanj at volny.cz (Jakub Ladman) Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 17:41:54 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] idea about fast package detection on TP-line In-Reply-To: <1162046308.6708.21.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1162046308.6708.21.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <200610281741.54799.ladmanj@volny.cz> Dne sobota 28 ??jen 2006 16:38 Thomas Egenhofer napsal(a): > > I understand it only partly. Both me and you, we are not so good english > > speakers. > > i wonder about that.. but english wasn't made for circuits.. that's for > shure :) "for sure" not "shure" my mistakes was (i discovered it when i was reading my own mail again) "than" instead of "then" for exapmle. This causes the message is very hard to understand. Even i understand correct english or US english and "czenglish" (english with mistakes originated in the czech grammar) i have big trouble with "genglish" (english with mistakes originated in the german grammar) But the example "shure" is not the worst case, because I do not know any meaning of the word "shure", i only know, that Shure is the manufacturer of microphones. :-) Jakub From clock at twibright.com Sun Oct 29 15:23:04 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2006 16:23:04 +0100 Subject: [Ronja] Halloween haunting in BF982 Message-ID: <20061029152303.GA19397@kestrel.twibright.com> Hello I am measuring BF982 now and I wonder why the 1MHz triangle wave on BF988 output is steeper after change of direction and the steepness goes down. The result is that after derivation the signal is a square wave which has the front higher and the tail lower. I isolated the transistor and figured out there is nothing in the circuit around it that could explain the behaviour. The optical signal in the air is perfectly square. The input of the BF982 is also (almost) perfect triangular wave. However on the output which is not connected anywhere it is deformed. When you put 3.3k resistor in parallel to the 270pF capacitor in the derivator (NE592), the deformation is nicely compensated. Can anyone else who has a different transistor try to look at the output of NE592 if he sees the deformed wave and then apply 3.3k in parallel to the 270p and see if it's compensated? Is it possible that it's simply haunting inside the transistor? Maybe it has some side effect that causes the lower frequencies from 150kHz lower to be attenuated? CL< From kubajz at kbx.cz Mon Oct 30 08:09:41 2006 From: kubajz at kbx.cz (Jakub Sykora) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 09:09:41 +0100 Subject: [Ronja] Halloween haunting in BF982 In-Reply-To: <20061029152303.GA19397@kestrel.twibright.com> References: <20061029152303.GA19397@kestrel.twibright.com> Message-ID: <4545B345.4000706@kbx.cz> I think this can be only explained by dwarfs' ghosts inside the transistor :]] K Karel Kulhavy wrote: > Hello > > I am measuring BF982 now and I wonder why the 1MHz triangle wave on BF988 > output is steeper after change of direction and the steepness goes down. The > result is that after derivation the signal is a square wave which has the front > higher and the tail lower. > > I isolated the transistor and figured out there is nothing in the circuit around > it that could explain the behaviour. The optical signal in the air is perfectly > square. The input of the BF982 is also (almost) perfect triangular wave. However > on the output which is not connected anywhere it is deformed. > > When you put 3.3k resistor in parallel to the 270pF capacitor in the derivator > (NE592), the deformation is nicely compensated. Can anyone else who has a > different transistor try to look at the output of NE592 if he sees the deformed > wave and then apply 3.3k in parallel to the 270p and see if it's compensated? > > Is it possible that it's simply haunting inside the transistor? Maybe it has > some side effect that causes the lower frequencies from 150kHz lower to be > attenuated? > > CL< > > -- Jakub S?kora email: kubajz na kbx.cz <') ICQ: 68976632 ( =- mobil: +420 777 594 201 '' From bartosz_kolodziejczak at o2.pl Mon Oct 30 16:27:45 2006 From: bartosz_kolodziejczak at o2.pl (Bartosz Kolodziejczak) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 17:27:45 +0100 Subject: [Ronja] TX problem Message-ID: <45462801.6030901@o2.pl> Hi, I'm having trouble setting up my TX. I built it according to Ronja guide. The only change was multi-rotary trimmers where normally R8 and R11 is. I've put 50k trimmer to adjust preemphasis circuit, and 10R trimmer to adjust LED current. I connected multimeter set to 200mA across 74hc04 and HPWT-BD00-F4000. I set current to 68mA, then performed duty cycle test with ping. I also managed to set same current values during IDLE and during DATA FLOW. Anyway I observe RSSI loss during data transfer. It is about 0,7V lower than in IDLE state. What may be wrong in my circuit? I double checked all elements interconnections and values. Maybe its receiver problem? Any ideas would be much appreciated. Thanks Crush From jdb at lartmaker.nl Mon Oct 30 15:39:28 2006 From: jdb at lartmaker.nl (J.D. Bakker) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 17:39:28 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] TX problem In-Reply-To: <45462801.6030901@o2.pl> References: <45462801.6030901@o2.pl> Message-ID: >Hi, > >I'm having trouble setting up my TX. I built it according to Ronja >guide. The only change was multi-rotary trimmers where normally R8 and >R11 is. I've put 50k trimmer to adjust preemphasis circuit, and 10R >trimmer to adjust LED current. What kind of 10R trimmer do you use ? Some are wirewound and thus inductive. An easy experiment is to replace this trimmer with a fixed 10R resistor. Total output may be lower, but at least yuo can test if this fixes the RSSI problem. >Anyway I observe RSSI loss during data transfer. It is about 0,7V lower >than in IDLE state. What may be wrong in my circuit? I double checked >all elements interconnections and values. Maybe its receiver problem? That might still be the case, but I'd try the resistor replacement anyway ;-) JDB. -- LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files. http://www.lartmaker.nl/ From g.mourits at casema.nl Mon Oct 30 16:45:34 2006 From: g.mourits at casema.nl (G.M. Mourits) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 17:45:34 +0100 Subject: [Ronja] HPWT-BD00-F400 Message-ID: <000601c6fc42$d2464720$c701a8c0@bilbo> Can anyone help me out. I?m trying to by the HPWT-BD00-F400. In the Netherlands there seems to be no one who can deliver those devices. Several distributors (RSComponents, Farnell) can deliver but only for something like 300 Euro?s. I've walked through the Ronja database and contacted several inviduals. The best I could get was the HPWT-BD00-E4000. But I really want the HPWT-BD00-F4000. Where can I get these ? Thanks ahead. Gerard Mourits? WiFiSoft From bartosz_kolodziejczak at o2.pl Mon Oct 30 17:03:59 2006 From: bartosz_kolodziejczak at o2.pl (Bartosz Kolodziejczak) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 18:03:59 +0100 Subject: [Ronja] TX problem - continued Message-ID: <4546307F.1070500@o2.pl> I noticed also my RSSI decreases about 0,7 V during data transfer only when signal is very high. At the distance of 3 mtrs on floor it has about 30mV RSSI. If I start transmitting data RSSI decreases to 14mV, but link is still working at full speed. Maybe just RSSI circuit in receiver is damaged or some?! What do you think guys? What should I check first? Kind regards Crush From hnizdil at gmail.com Mon Oct 30 18:56:35 2006 From: hnizdil at gmail.com (Honza Hnizdil) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 19:56:35 +0100 Subject: [Ronja] HPWT-BD00-F400 In-Reply-To: <000601c6fc42$d2464720$c701a8c0@bilbo> References: <000601c6fc42$d2464720$c701a8c0@bilbo> Message-ID: On 10/30/06, G.M. Mourits wrote: > Can anyone help me out. > I'm trying to by the HPWT-BD00-F400. > In the Netherlands there seems to be no one who can deliver those devices. > Several distributors (RSComponents, Farnell) can deliver but only for > something like 300 Euro's. > I've walked through the Ronja database and contacted several inviduals. > The best I could get was the HPWT-BD00-E4000. > But I really want the HPWT-BD00-F4000. I have bought six pieces from Ondrej Tesar weak ago. Send him an email if he could send them internationally by post. Price is 25CZK for one piece. ondrej(dot)tesar(at)volny(dot)cz Good Luck! Honza > Where can I get these ? > > Thanks ahead. > > Gerard Mourits > > WiFiSoft > > > > -- > Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > From clock at twibright.com Tue Oct 31 11:44:47 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 12:44:47 +0100 Subject: [Ronja] HPWT-BD00-F400 In-Reply-To: References: <000601c6fc42$d2464720$c701a8c0@bilbo> Message-ID: <20061031114447.GA22202@kestrel.twibright.com> On Mon, Oct 30, 2006 at 07:56:35PM +0100, Honza Hnizdil wrote: > On 10/30/06, G.M. Mourits wrote: > > Can anyone help me out. > > I'm trying to by the HPWT-BD00-F400. > > In the Netherlands there seems to be no one who can deliver those devices. > > Several distributors (RSComponents, Farnell) can deliver but only for > > something like 300 Euro's. > > I've walked through the Ronja database and contacted several inviduals. > > The best I could get was the HPWT-BD00-E4000. > > But I really want the HPWT-BD00-F4000. > > I have bought six pieces from Ondrej Tesar weak ago. Send him an email > if he could send them internationally by post. Price is 25CZK for one > piece. Do you think it would be a good idea to make an official page with a list of people who are reliably known to offer Ronja parts like Ronjashop with PCB's and Ondrej Tesar with the LEDs and link it directly from the guides? CL< From g.mourits at casema.nl Tue Oct 31 12:01:49 2006 From: g.mourits at casema.nl (G.M. Mourits) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 13:01:49 +0100 Subject: [Ronja] list of people / ronja parts In-Reply-To: <20061031114447.GA22202@kestrel.twibright.com> Message-ID: <000a01c6fce4$5aac4460$c701a8c0@bilbo> > > On Mon, Oct 30, 2006 at 07:56:35PM +0100, Honza Hnizdil wrote: > > On 10/30/06, G.M. Mourits wrote: > > > Can anyone help me out. > > > I'm trying to by the HPWT-BD00-F400. > > > In the Netherlands there seems to be no one who can deliver those > devices. > > > Several distributors (RSComponents, Farnell) can deliver but only for > > > something like 300 Euro's. > > > I've walked through the Ronja database and contacted several > inviduals. > > > The best I could get was the HPWT-BD00-E4000. > > > But I really want the HPWT-BD00-F4000. > > > > I have bought six pieces from Ondrej Tesar weak ago. Send him an email > > if he could send them internationally by post. Price is 25CZK for one > > piece. > > Do you think it would be a good idea to make an official page with a list > of people who are reliably known to offer Ronja parts like Ronjashop with > PCB's and Ondrej Tesar with the LEDs and link it directly from the guides? > This seems a great challenge. I am creating a manual to step-by-step build the Ronja so every start-up can work with it...., If your in the movement you should understand the website but it looks like it's a growing phenomenon with the symptoms of getting out of control. It's very easy to link these to any supplier what so ever (but a lot of work). I think there are lot's of people out here who have to buy 50 peaces instead of the 1 they really need. So let's help each other out here. Gerard From bartosz_kolodziejczak at o2.pl Tue Oct 31 12:07:32 2006 From: bartosz_kolodziejczak at o2.pl (Bartosz Kolodziejczak) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 13:07:32 +0100 Subject: [Ronja] TX Problem Message-ID: <45473C84.3030707@o2.pl> >> Hi, >> >> I'm having trouble setting up my TX. I built it according to Ronja >> guide. The only change was multi-rotary trimmers where normally R8 and >> R11 is. I've put 50k trimmer to adjust preemphasis circuit, and 10R >> trimmer to adjust LED current. >> > > What kind of 10R trimmer do you use ? Some are wirewound and thus inductive. > I don't know exactly, but its multi-rotary one - like here http://www.tme.com.pl/katalog_pics/6/3/8/638bbc52576dd428dec772f97a098b10/3296w-100k.jpg > An easy experiment is to replace this trimmer with a fixed 10R > resistor. Total output may be lower, but at least yuo can test if > this fixes the RSSI problem. > I'll try that today - thanks Crush > >> Anyway I observe RSSI loss during data transfer. It is about 0,7V lower >> than in IDLE state. What may be wrong in my circuit? I double checked >> all elements interconnections and values. Maybe its receiver problem? >> > > That might still be the case, but I'd try the resistor replacement anyway ;-) > > JDB. > From hnizdil at gmail.com Tue Oct 31 22:19:21 2006 From: hnizdil at gmail.com (Honza Hnizdil) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 23:19:21 +0100 Subject: [Ronja] HPWT-BD00-F400 In-Reply-To: <20061031114447.GA22202@kestrel.twibright.com> References: <000601c6fc42$d2464720$c701a8c0@bilbo> <20061031114447.GA22202@kestrel.twibright.com> Message-ID: On 10/31/06, Karel Kulhavy wrote: > On Mon, Oct 30, 2006 at 07:56:35PM +0100, Honza Hnizdil wrote: > > On 10/30/06, G.M. Mourits wrote: > > > Can anyone help me out. > > > I'm trying to by the HPWT-BD00-F400. > > > In the Netherlands there seems to be no one who can deliver those devices. > > > Several distributors (RSComponents, Farnell) can deliver but only for > > > something like 300 Euro's. > > > I've walked through the Ronja database and contacted several inviduals. > > > The best I could get was the HPWT-BD00-E4000. > > > But I really want the HPWT-BD00-F4000. > > > > I have bought six pieces from Ondrej Tesar weak ago. Send him an email > > if he could send them internationally by post. Price is 25CZK for one > > piece. > > Do you think it would be a good idea to make an official page with a list > of people who are reliably known to offer Ronja parts like Ronjashop with > PCB's and Ondrej Tesar with the LEDs and link it directly from the guides? > > CL< I thought all this information is already on the RonjaWiki, isn't it? And linking it directly from the guides? Why not? But i'm not sure if RonjaShop is still reliable. I'm affraid it has already died. Honza > > -- > Twibright Ronja mailing list http://ronja.twibright.com > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja >