From clock at twibright.com Thu Jun 1 08:06:18 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 09:06:18 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] interface speed question In-Reply-To: <447DCD41.2020509@grads.ece.mcmaster.ca> References: <447DCD41.2020509@grads.ece.mcmaster.ca> Message-ID: <20060601070618.GC5158@kestrel> On Wed, May 31, 2006 at 01:07:13PM -0400, M.N.A.Smadi wrote: > twister uses AUI as an interface. Is that why the speed is limited at No twister doesn't use AUI as an interface. CL< > 10Mbps? Are there any experiments with faster interfaces? if so, at > what frequency does the circuitry creep out (i.e. the maximum modulation > speed i guess)? > > > thanks > moe smadi > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From clock at twibright.com Thu Jun 1 08:05:57 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 09:05:57 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Power Consumption Question In-Reply-To: <447DCB94.3070504@grads.ece.mcmaster.ca> References: <4475F378.1010106@grads.ece.mcmaster.ca> <447613F8.6060808@seznam.cz> <447620FE.3000503@grads.ece.mcmaster.ca> <44762664.5000103@seznam.cz> <4476FC2D.4040204@fmg.sk> <20060526152023.GD2428@kestrel.barix.local> <447DCB94.3070504@grads.ece.mcmaster.ca> Message-ID: <20060601070557.GB5158@kestrel> On Wed, May 31, 2006 at 01:00:04PM -0400, M.N.A.Smadi wrote: > Does twister2 have to run at 12V or could it run at lower voltages? > If one is interested in lowering the powering of twister as much as > possible, while maintaining the link as up all the time, what are > obvious tweaks for doing that? It can run lower, but the accompanying Ronja needs +12V. CL< > > thanks > moe smadi > Karel Kulhavy wrote: > > >On Fri, May 26, 2006 at 03:01:33PM +0200, anMic wrote: > > > > > >>Pavel Krejci napsal(a): > >> > >> > >>>There is no extra protocol. This is "media converter" only. And it is > >>>for 10FD traffic. > >>> > >>>Consumption I guess you can find on the web, if not ask clock to add it. > >>>Personally I did not measured. > >>> > >>> > >>Current through my Ronja is about 300 mA when voltage at > >>12V, so the power consumption is about 0.3*12=3.6W > >>(Lens heating not included.) > >> > >> > > > >With Twister2 it will be 2.46W then. > > > >CL< > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Ronja mailing list > >Ronja at lists.pointless.net > >http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From asteri_x at freemail.hu Thu Jun 1 08:27:44 2006 From: asteri_x at freemail.hu (Martin) Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 09:27:44 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [Ronja] Speed question In-Reply-To: <20060531190245.GB21205@Galilei.galilei.homelinux.net> Message-ID: To implement the MLT-3 over the air is something, I am already working on since 6 months. But I have very few free time. Now I'm stuck in USA, and don't know, when I see my home again... What I wanted to implement: MLT-3 to light modulation, with an bias light intensity, so that LED or LD never goes off completely. It has the advantage of not discharching the whole capacity of the diode. Needs an automatic power control, to be stable in different environments. (LD-s dont like temp changes) Later is not easy to implement, I wanted to use ready OPU-s from DVD burners, but had no idea how to connect it. As far as I think, you should not differentiate, but add the two channels. Noise doesn't add, but the useful signal does, when you have great distance between the 2 receivers. The Ideal maximum frequency of the MLT-3 is 31.25MHz. Try first some _very_ simple tests. Build a good transmitter, and confirm it via Oszilloscope, that it really sends, what you need. Good question, how do you measure this? That means, you have to develop receiver and transmitter at the same time. Be careful, the Link pulses of autonegotiation have 2x the voltage as +1 in MLT-3. And they are about 10 mlt-3 bits long. So if these burn your LD-s, It wasn't me. ( so far as I saw this on my scope) Magyarul: Vazze, m?g egy megsz?llott, aki ezzel akarja lopni az internetet a kolibol :) Kir?ly. Na de ne f?zz sok rem?nyt, hogy megoldjuk egyhamar, mert lehet, hogy egyszer?bb el?sz?r megcsin?lni a m?r kipr?b?lt Ronj?t. Kellemes k?s?rleteket! ?s vigy?zz a m?g megmaradt szemed f?ny?re. :) ?dv, Martin _______________________________________________________________________________ J?tszd ?jra, Som! Keress?k a valaha sz?letett magyar sl?gert, A csit?ri hegyek alatt-t?l a H?tlenig minden belef?rt. A dalokat v?gighallgathatod. Szavazz, nyerj Bang & Olufsen hificuccot! http://alomslager.origo.hu From anmic at fmg.sk Thu Jun 1 14:18:26 2006 From: anmic at fmg.sk (anMic) Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 15:18:26 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] More pictures of Twister2 In-Reply-To: <20060526155952.GA7612@kestrel.barix.local> References: <20060525062417.GA24294@kestrel> <447617CB.6090403@fmg.sk> <20060526083839.GA30248@kestrel.barix.local> <4476FA77.8060002@fmg.sk> <20060526155952.GA7612@kestrel.barix.local> Message-ID: <447EE922.4090302@fmg.sk> Karel Kulhavy napsal(a): > On Fri, May 26, 2006 at 02:54:15PM +0200, anMic wrote: > >>>>- jak se bude pajet koax do konektoru Cannon? Podle mych >>>>zkusenosti se stineni beznych koaxu neda rozumnym zpusobem >>>>pajet a typy s medenym opletem jsou nekolikanasobne drazsi. >>> >>> >>>The old Ronja already had a requirement for the cable shield to be >>>solderable so it's still the same. >> >>I thought Ronja is project for wide spectrum of users who >>can build the device using widely available components. But >>as far as I know the coaxes with solderable shielding are >>quite expensive and more difficult to get. > > > What kind of koaxes can you get? Does it have an aluminium foil without > even a whin braided wire touching the foil? Getting various types of coaxes is no problem - I can easily get the ones with solderable shielding, but it's question of price (see gme.cz etc.). The coax i use has al. foil + thin wires around which are absolutely solder-resistant (discussed here some months ago). J. Matyas > > CL< > From discover at fly.srk.fer.hr Thu Jun 1 14:27:13 2006 From: discover at fly.srk.fer.hr (Silvije) Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 15:27:13 +0200 (MEST) Subject: [Ronja] More pictures of Twister2 In-Reply-To: <447EE922.4090302@fmg.sk> References: <20060525062417.GA24294@kestrel> <447617CB.6090403@fmg.sk> <20060526083839.GA30248@kestrel.barix.local> <4476FA77.8060002@fmg.sk> <20060526155952.GA7612@kestrel.barix.local> <447EE922.4090302@fmg.sk> Message-ID: > The coax i use has al. foil + thin wires around which are > absolutely solder-resistant (discussed here some months ago). > > J. Matyas > Have u tried to dip the solder resistant wires in HCl before soldering? I am not sure what material I had but with HCl I succeded to solder it. s. From anmic at fmg.sk Thu Jun 1 15:45:17 2006 From: anmic at fmg.sk (anMic) Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 16:45:17 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] More pictures of Twister2 In-Reply-To: References: <20060525062417.GA24294@kestrel> <447617CB.6090403@fmg.sk> <20060526083839.GA30248@kestrel.barix.local> <4476FA77.8060002@fmg.sk> <20060526155952.GA7612@kestrel.barix.local> <447EE922.4090302@fmg.sk> Message-ID: <447EFD7D.30604@fmg.sk> Silvije napsal(a): >>The coax i use has al. foil + thin wires around which are >>absolutely solder-resistant (discussed here some months ago). >> >>J. Matyas >> > > > Have u tried to dip the solder resistant wires in HCl before > soldering? I am not sure what material I had but with HCl > I succeded to solder it. > > s. > That's good idea, I have similar experience with HCl (it helped me when I was soldering a box for Twister). I will try it on with that coax. But I've heard that HCl can damage the joint (even if there left only little amount of HCl) and that joint can become very unreliable. Could anyone of you confirm/refute that? JM From radek at podgorny.cz Thu Jun 1 18:26:37 2006 From: radek at podgorny.cz (Radek Podgorny) Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 19:26:37 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Ronja Digest, Vol 37, Issue 31 In-Reply-To: <20060530070311.GA9980@kestrel> References: <20060530070311.GA9980@kestrel> Message-ID: <447F234D.7090606@podgorny.cz> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 You shouldn't have done that. It's a lot of fun to read his posts. Really! Radek P. Karel Kulhavy wrote: > On Sun, May 28, 2006 at 10:49:18PM -0400, quintus murray wrote: >> I don't think it's a good idea to replace the switches with jumpers >> since if you do that you won't be able to communicate with your pc via >> pc/hub connection. Plus I suggest using the ultra high-speed internet >> phone cable with RJ11 connectors or a fiber optic cable since it's >> more reliable than a copper cable. > > I have just performed membership management ( ;-) ) on Quintus' > subscription again. > > CL< > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFEfyNN7mej6pjlbYQRAjhLAJ9sYRkj1myHuLdrmpoXgqNrBVodlQCdFid2 V8yCNtXlXqejagJaQIUpY00= =zo0s -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From asteri_x at freemail.hu Fri Jun 2 04:30:04 2006 From: asteri_x at freemail.hu (Martin) Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2006 05:30:04 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [Ronja] More pictures of Twister2 In-Reply-To: <447EFD7D.30604@fmg.sk> Message-ID: When I started soldering first time in my life, we had very stinking HCl based flux. It was good at soldering, but when you didn't clean it _really_ good after soldering, then there could be problems. All the copper rainpipes on the roofs are soldered with this type of solder. So when your material is thick enough, then there will be no problem :) I recommend using a simple knife to get rid of the oxid layer, and use normal flux, such as the resin that is comming out of christmas trees :) ( beleave me, it is the best, that exists. OK it can be better, when you make a solution of it with some kind of alcohol) If the shielding wires are also Al, then get another coax, whith copperwires. Al is not solderable, because of its extremely quick oxidation. If you ave laquer on the wires, then a firestarter is enough. Or use NaOH solution, that rips off everything organic, so be careful. Bye, Martin anMic ?rta: > Silvije napsal(a): > >>The coax i use has al. foil + thin wires around which are > >>absolutely solder-resistant (discussed here some months ago). > >> > >>J. Matyas > >> > > > > > > Have u tried to dip the solder resistant wires in HCl before > > soldering? I am not sure what material I had but with HCl > > I succeded to solder it. > > > > s. > > > > That's good idea, I have similar experience with HCl (it > helped me when I was soldering a box for Twister). I will > try it on with that coax. > > But I've heard that HCl can damage the joint (even if there > left only little amount of HCl) and that joint can become > very unreliable. Could anyone of you confirm/refute that? > > JM > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > _______________________________________________________________________________ A legjobb akci?s utaz?sok oldala, ahol most rengeteg nyerem?ny v?r R?d: http://ad.adverticum.net/b/cl,1,6022,99401,161631/click.prm From wacx at email.cz Fri Jun 2 09:11:24 2006 From: wacx at email.cz (WaCX) Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2006 10:11:24 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] More pictures of Twister2 References: Message-ID: <000401c6861c$240d5e60$0201a8c0@wacxnote> hi, Al wires are soldarable but you need to use special soldering liquid that can be bought in gme for ex. wacx ----- Original Message ----- From: "Martin" To: "Twibright Ronja" Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 5:30 AM Subject: Re: [Ronja] More pictures of Twister2 When I started soldering first time in my life, we had very stinking HCl based flux. It was good at soldering, but when you didn't clean it _really_ good after soldering, then there could be problems. All the copper rainpipes on the roofs are soldered with this type of solder. So when your material is thick enough, then there will be no problem :) I recommend using a simple knife to get rid of the oxid layer, and use normal flux, such as the resin that is comming out of christmas trees :) ( beleave me, it is the best, that exists. OK it can be better, when you make a solution of it with some kind of alcohol) If the shielding wires are also Al, then get another coax, whith copperwires. Al is not solderable, because of its extremely quick oxidation. If you ave laquer on the wires, then a firestarter is enough. Or use NaOH solution, that rips off everything organic, so be careful. Bye, Martin anMic ?rta: > Silvije napsal(a): > >>The coax i use has al. foil + thin wires around which are > >>absolutely solder-resistant (discussed here some months ago). > >> > >>J. Matyas > >> > > > > > > Have u tried to dip the solder resistant wires in HCl before > > soldering? I am not sure what material I had but with HCl > > I succeded to solder it. > > > > s. > > > > That's good idea, I have similar experience with HCl (it > helped me when I was soldering a box for Twister). I will > try it on with that coax. > > But I've heard that HCl can damage the joint (even if there > left only little amount of HCl) and that joint can become > very unreliable. Could anyone of you confirm/refute that? > > JM > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > _______________________________________________________________________________ A legjobb akci?s utaz?sok oldala, ahol most rengeteg nyerem?ny v?r R?d: http://ad.adverticum.net/b/cl,1,6022,99401,161631/click.prm _______________________________________________ Ronja mailing list Ronja at lists.pointless.net http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja __________ NOD32 1.1575 (20060602) Information __________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com From clock at twibright.com Fri Jun 2 09:26:51 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2006 10:26:51 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] pine and marihuana resin instead of rosin In-Reply-To: References: <447EFD7D.30604@fmg.sk> Message-ID: <20060602082651.GA21675@kestrel> On Fri, Jun 02, 2006 at 05:30:04AM +0200, Martin wrote: > > When I started soldering first time in my life, we had very > stinking HCl based flux. It was good at soldering, but when > you didn't clean it _really_ good after soldering, then > there could be problems. > All the copper rainpipes on the roofs are soldered with this > type of solder. So when your material is thick enough, then > there will be no problem :) > I recommend using a simple knife to get rid of the oxid > layer, and use normal flux, such as the resin that is > comming out of christmas trees :) ( beleave me, it is the That's a good idea - today morning I went along some trees and picked some pitch for free. I'll try how it works. At least it smells nice. Does the marihuana resin have acidic properties like the pine resin? In countries where marihuana is legal it could be an pleasant alternative for the rosin flux as well, though a bit expensive ;-) According to my opinion it's stupid to ban marihuana and not ban tobacco and alcohol, which pose much higher health risk: "Nicotine [...] It is a potent nerve poison and is included in many insecticides [...] has limited carcinogenic effects inhibiting the body's ability to destroy potentially cancerous cells." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotine "Unlike withdrawal from opioids such as heroin, which can be unpleasant but never fatal, alcohol withdrawal can kill (by uncontrolled convulsions or delirium tremens) if it is not properly managed." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcoholism For this the governments should get a Nobel Prize for hypocrisy. CL< > best, that exists. OK it can be better, when you make a > solution of it with some kind of alcohol) > If the shielding wires are also Al, then get another coax, > whith copperwires. Al is not solderable, because of its > extremely quick oxidation. > > If you ave laquer on the wires, then a firestarter is > enough. Or use NaOH solution, that rips off everything > organic, so be careful. > > Bye, > Martin > > anMic ?rta: > > > Silvije napsal(a): > > >>The coax i use has al. foil + thin wires around which are > > >>absolutely solder-resistant (discussed here some months > ago). > > >> > > >>J. Matyas > > >> > > > > > > > > > Have u tried to dip the solder resistant wires in HCl before > > > soldering? I am not sure what material I had but with HCl > > > I succeded to solder it. > > > > > > s. > > > > > > > That's good idea, I have similar experience with HCl (it > > helped me when I was soldering a box for Twister). I will > > try it on with that coax. > > > > But I've heard that HCl can damage the joint (even if there > > left only little amount of HCl) and that joint can become > > very unreliable. Could anyone of you confirm/refute that? > > > > JM > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ronja mailing list > > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > A legjobb akci?s utaz?sok oldala, ahol most rengeteg nyerem?ny v?r R?d: > http://ad.adverticum.net/b/cl,1,6022,99401,161631/click.prm > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From peter at halas.hu Fri Jun 2 18:58:06 2006 From: peter at halas.hu (=?iso-8859-1?Q?So=F3s_P=E9ter?=) Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2006 19:58:06 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Speed question In-Reply-To: References: <20060531190245.GB21205@Galilei.galilei.homelinux.net> Message-ID: <20060602175806.GA23785@Galilei.galilei.homelinux.net> Hi there! Thanks for the quick answer. On Thu, Jun 01, 2006 at 09:27:44AM +0200, Martin wrote: > To implement the MLT-3 over the air is something, I am > already working on since 6 months. But I have very few free > time. Well it seems easy, but those are always the hardest to solve... Another question: what is the delay limitation of a 100Base-T link? (i mean: for ex. Half duplex needs some time to wait, in full-duplex mode tehere is no such thing, but there shuld be soma timeout for error detection etc.) > What I wanted to implement: > MLT-3 to light modulation, with an bias light intensity, so > that LED or LD never goes off completely. It has the > advantage of not discharching the whole capacity of the diode. Isn't it a disadvantege? Discharging something really quick should be easyer than discharging only the half of its capacity...but i thing this part of the problem is already solved somewhere: we got thoose DVD burners, and >155Mbit fiber technology. > Needs an automatic power control, to be stable in different > environments. (LD-s dont like temp changes) Yeah, but what about the detector side? How can we manage the level detection? The proble is that i really know nothing about the spectra of optikal noise in such a detector head. Optical power from the emitter head can be easily calculated using some high-school knowledge on geometrical optics, but we are much moore interested in SNR leveling. btw. SNR can be gained by frequency filters. If we use a high-pass filter (like ronja actually does), and there is no noise on that band we can get theroetically endless of decibels...so what are the limiting factors for that? > Later is not easy to implement, I wanted to use ready OPU-s > from DVD burners, but had no idea how to connect it. Good idea, i guess the optical contact could be also a problem: with this arrangement you get a Newton-type telescope...but this isn't a bad news... and the optical lens of the head is moveable for auto-focus etc... > Try first some _very_ simple tests. Build a good > transmitter, and confirm it via Oszilloscope, that it really > sends, what you need. Good question, how do you measure > this? That means, you have to develop receiver and > transmitter at the same time. Exactly. Or buy an oscilloscope for 2000euro :) > Be careful, the Link pulses of autonegotiation have 2x the > voltage as +1 in MLT-3. And they are about 10 mlt-3 bits > long. So if these burn your LD-s, It wasn't me. ( so far as > I saw this on my scope) Could you send me another resources on this? What kind of pulses can be seen on a UTP cable? (i could google too, but if you did it alrady...) Magyarul: > Vazze, m?g egy megsz?llott, aki ezzel akarja lopni az > internetet a kolibol :) > Kir?ly. Na de ne f?zz sok rem?nyt, hogy megoldjuk egyhamar, > mert lehet, hogy egyszer?bb el?sz?r megcsin?lni a m?r > kipr?b?lt Ronj?t. > Kellemes k?s?rleteket! ?s vigy?zz a m?g megmaradt szemed > f?ny?re. :) Hoh? l?zerlaborb?l kitanultam hogykellazt :) Node ?r?l?k h haszn?lhatom anyelvem! Probalok valahonnan beszerezni hozza kesz maratott nyakot, mert bar maratni is tudok, de a lyukgalvanozas meg nem megy a sufniban :DD Mugymeg nem a kolibol akarom lopni a netet, hanem itthon csinalni szomszedokkal halozatot. Az igeny az lenne, hogy mesh rendszeru, es barmely ket vegpont kozott legalabb 10Mbit, igy a "multimedias" alkalmazasoknak sem lenne akadaly (ertsd film, zene). A jelenlegi allapot mar mukodik, wlannal, de egyre fokozodik a fegyverkezes a kereskedelmi oldalrol: mindenfele torvenyi szabalyozast leszarva akkora mar a radiozaj, hogy 3-400metes linket 18dB es antennaval, 100mW os adokkal is alig lehet fenntartani, es ez csak romlani fog. Gondolom a vege majd az lesz, hogy ha a ceges linkbe berepul a kacsa, egyb?l t?lalj?k is... szoval nagyon kellene alternativa... peter From krepa at seznam.cz Fri Jun 2 20:12:33 2006 From: krepa at seznam.cz (Pavel Krejci) Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 21:12:33 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Speed question In-Reply-To: <20060602175806.GA23785@Galilei.galilei.homelinux.net> References: <20060531190245.GB21205@Galilei.galilei.homelinux.net> <20060602175806.GA23785@Galilei.galilei.homelinux.net> Message-ID: <44808DA1.9080908@seznam.cz> So?s P?ter napsal(a): > >> What I wanted to implement: >> MLT-3 to light modulation, with an bias light intensity, so >> that LED or LD never goes off completely. It has the >> advantage of not discharching the whole capacity of the diode. > Isn't it a disadvantege? Discharging something really quick should be > easyer than discharging only the half of its capacity...but i thing this > part of the problem is already solved somewhere: we got thoose DVD > burners, and >155Mbit fiber technology. The problem is if you are able to discharge it quickly enough. But more serious problem is to force the LD to light again. This is very significant amount of time. So the solution is really to have some threshold current which does not allow LD to shut down completely. >> Needs an automatic power control, to be stable in different >> environments. (LD-s dont like temp changes) > Yeah, but what about the detector side? How can we manage the level > detection? Not too sure what you mean exactly, but I guess AGC (automatic gain control) amplifier is solution. > > The proble is that i really know nothing about the spectra of optikal > noise in such a detector head. Optical power from the emitter head can > be easily calculated using some high-school knowledge on geometrical > optics, but we are much moore interested in SNR leveling. btw. SNR can > be gained by frequency filters. If we use a high-pass filter (like ronja > actually does), and there is no noise on that band we can get > theroetically endless of decibels...so what are the limiting factors for > that? You need to distinguish between optical and electrical part. Sure you can help the system by adding very sharp bandpass optical filter for desired wavelength. Optical noise is basically because of the sun, or if someone else is shining to your receiver (it is unlikely) and because of variation of optical path (scintillations) Rule of thumb: You can never have real electrical circuit without noise. You will always have at least thermal noise. But once you involve semiconductors than you have other noise contributions. One thing is how you can suppress this noise (by design, by technology) but it will never be noiseless. The other one is if this suppression is sufficient for your design. There are many techniques in digital signal processing how to improve system if the noise/or channel changes are known by their probability function. >> Try first some _very_ simple tests. Build a good >> transmitter, and confirm it via Oszilloscope, that it really >> sends, what you need. Good question, how do you measure >> this? That means, you have to develop receiver and >> transmitter at the same time. > Exactly. Or buy an oscilloscope for 2000euro :) You can get some optical probes to see how your transmitter is behaving. It is not cheap but it exists. Anyway if you want to be able to really debug you need scope with bandwidth matching bandwidth of your design or better (real bandwidth! i.e. not only fundamental frequency - this is true only for pure sine wave). And real sample rate at least 5x (10x better) higher than cutoff frequency. Of course there are exceptions i.e. if the signal is limited in bandwidth and at high frequencies, then it can be undersampled. But in such case you need perfectly know what are you doing. Sorry do not know Hungarian. krepa From jdb at lartmaker.nl Fri Jun 2 20:38:16 2006 From: jdb at lartmaker.nl (J.D. Bakker) Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2006 21:38:16 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Speed question In-Reply-To: <20060602175806.GA23785@Galilei.galilei.homelinux.net> References: <20060531190245.GB21205@Galilei.galilei.homelinux.net> <20060602175806.GA23785@Galilei.galilei.homelinux.net> Message-ID: >Another question: what is the delay limitation of a 100Base-T link? >(i mean: for ex. Half duplex needs some time to wait, in full-duplex >mode >tehere is no such thing, but there shuld be soma timeout for error >detection etc.) According to the IEEE Std 802.3-2002, Section Two, Table 29.5, the link segment length limit for 100MB/s full duplex segments is 100m for 100BASE-TX and 2000m for 100BASE-FX. Section 29.4 states: " Unlike half duplex CSMA/CD networks, the physical size of full duplex 100 Mb/s CSMA/CD networks is not limited by the round-trip collision propagation delay. Instead, the maximum link length between DTEs is limited only by the signal transmission characteristics of the specific cable, as specified in Table 29-5. " I interpret this to mean "in a full-duplex 100Mbit Ethernet system, the link length is limited by whatever you can get to work". >The proble is that i really know nothing about the spectra of optikal >noise in such a detector head. Look up "photodiode shot noise" on Google (without the quotes). To summarize: just like all resistors have Johnson noise (proportional to the square root of the resistance), all currents have shot noise (proportional to the square root of the current). Daylight induces a DC current in the receiving photodiode; with a properly designed front end, this DC current's shot noise will dominate your SNR. At night the first amplifier stage determines your SNR (or the photodiode's background noise, if your front end is exceptionally good or your photodiode is exceptionally shitty). HTH, JDB [who finally has all parts for the 10Mb Luxeon TX proto, but no time to play with them...] -- Jan-Derk Bakker, jdb at lartmaker.nl The lazy man's proverb: 'There's no business like slow business !' From clock at twibright.com Fri Jun 2 20:31:06 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2006 21:31:06 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Pine and spruce resin test Message-ID: <20060602193106.GA9124@kestrel.barix.local> I did a test with the natural resin and it really seems it's superior to the colophonium. I took some old insulated wires and cables, stripped them on the end and cover with solder. Several times with colophonium, several times with the natural resin. The natural resin seems to work better than colophonium. The soldered part covers with solder faster and the resulting solid solder surface is shinier. It's also easier to remove the natural resin with alcohol because it's already naturally pre-diluted with oil of turpentine. The smells generated are really wild - every piece was from a different tree so it depends on the spot in the matter you currently hit ;-) CL< From daniel.strnad at tiscali.cz Fri Jun 2 23:57:23 2006 From: daniel.strnad at tiscali.cz (Daniel Strnad) Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 22:57:23 -0000 Subject: [Ronja] Speed question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 01 Jun 2006 07:27:44 -0000, Martin wrote: > Be careful, the Link pulses of autonegotiation have 2x the > voltage as +1 in MLT-3. And they are about 10 mlt-3 bits > long. So if these burn your LD-s, It wasn't me. ( so far as > I saw this on my scope) Where did you get those informations? I browsed whole IEEE 802.3 standard and found nothing. But there is some reference to ANSI standards - I think it is ANSI X3.263(FDDI over copper) but it's paid stuff :( Thanks, DS From clock at twibright.com Fri Jun 2 22:13:47 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2006 23:13:47 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] More pictures of Twister2 In-Reply-To: <000401c6861c$240d5e60$0201a8c0@wacxnote> References: <000401c6861c$240d5e60$0201a8c0@wacxnote> Message-ID: <20060602211346.GA12762@kestrel> On Fri, Jun 02, 2006 at 10:11:24AM +0200, WaCX wrote: > hi, > Al wires are soldarable but you need to use special soldering liquid that > can be bought in gme for ex. What are the wires made of? CL< > > wacx > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Martin" > To: "Twibright Ronja" > Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 5:30 AM > Subject: Re: [Ronja] More pictures of Twister2 > > > > When I started soldering first time in my life, we had very > stinking HCl based flux. It was good at soldering, but when > you didn't clean it _really_ good after soldering, then > there could be problems. > All the copper rainpipes on the roofs are soldered with this > type of solder. So when your material is thick enough, then > there will be no problem :) > I recommend using a simple knife to get rid of the oxid > layer, and use normal flux, such as the resin that is > comming out of christmas trees :) ( beleave me, it is the > best, that exists. OK it can be better, when you make a > solution of it with some kind of alcohol) > If the shielding wires are also Al, then get another coax, > whith copperwires. Al is not solderable, because of its > extremely quick oxidation. > > If you ave laquer on the wires, then a firestarter is > enough. Or use NaOH solution, that rips off everything > organic, so be careful. > > Bye, > Martin > > anMic ?rta: > > > Silvije napsal(a): > > >>The coax i use has al. foil + thin wires around which are > > >>absolutely solder-resistant (discussed here some months > ago). > > >> > > >>J. Matyas > > >> > > > > > > > > > Have u tried to dip the solder resistant wires in HCl before > > > soldering? I am not sure what material I had but with HCl > > > I succeded to solder it. > > > > > > s. > > > > > > > That's good idea, I have similar experience with HCl (it > > helped me when I was soldering a box for Twister). I will > > try it on with that coax. > > > > But I've heard that HCl can damage the joint (even if there > > left only little amount of HCl) and that joint can become > > very unreliable. Could anyone of you confirm/refute that? > > > > JM > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ronja mailing list > > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > A legjobb akci?s utaz?sok oldala, ahol most rengeteg nyerem?ny v?r R?d: > http://ad.adverticum.net/b/cl,1,6022,99401,161631/click.prm > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > __________ NOD32 1.1575 (20060602) Information __________ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From clock at twibright.com Sat Jun 3 10:01:20 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2006 11:01:20 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Twister2 sticker Message-ID: <20060603090120.GA15037@kestrel> I have just designed a lid sticker for the Twister2: http://ronja.twibright.com/drawings/twister2_label.png http://ronja.twibright.com/drawings/twister2_label.pdf http://ronja.twibright.com/drawings/twister2_label.ps CL< From windsloo at hotmail.com Thu Jun 8 15:13:49 2006 From: windsloo at hotmail.com (SOON HOAY LOO) Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2006 14:13:49 +0000 Subject: [Ronja] ask question Message-ID: Hi, I am interested to try out this project. can this ronja 10M Metropolis work under window operating system? because i use window Xp to run , so wondering if i dun have linux can do the software? and i want to know where do i can find about the software to run this devide? Does anyone has figure out the settings or it needs to be redesign? Thank you very much _________________________________________________________________ Find just what you are after with the more precise, more powerful new MSN Search. http://search.msn.com.my/ Try it now. From klapek at kki.net.pl Thu Jun 8 16:43:33 2006 From: klapek at kki.net.pl (Tomasz Koprowski) Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 17:43:33 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] ask question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200606081743.33890.klapek@kki.net.pl> On Thursday 08 of June 2006 16:13, SOON HOAY LOO wrote: > Hi, I am interested to try out this project. > can this ronja 10M Metropolis work under window operating system? > because i use window Xp to run , so wondering if i dun have linux can do > the software? Hi, Quintus, nice to see you on the list again... Greetz, Tomek Koprowski From clock at twibright.com Fri Jun 9 14:07:16 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2006 15:07:16 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] ask question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20060609130716.GA8084@kestrel.barix.local> On Thu, Jun 08, 2006 at 02:13:49PM +0000, SOON HOAY LOO wrote: > Hi, I am interested to try out this project. > can this ronja 10M Metropolis work under window operating system? > because i use window Xp to run , so wondering if i dun have linux can do the > software? Yes. You will have problems with some testing but in normal operation it can be used under Windows full duplex if you can set manually full duplex in the network card. CL< > and i want to know where do i can find about the software to run this > devide? > Does anyone has figure out the settings or it needs to be redesign? Thank > you very much > > _________________________________________________________________ > Find just what you are after with the more precise, more powerful new MSN > Search. http://search.msn.com.my/ Try it now. > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From clock at twibright.com Fri Jun 9 14:08:24 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2006 15:08:24 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] ask question In-Reply-To: <200606081743.33890.klapek@kki.net.pl> References: <200606081743.33890.klapek@kki.net.pl> Message-ID: <20060609130824.GB8084@kestrel.barix.local> On Thu, Jun 08, 2006 at 05:43:33PM +0200, Tomasz Koprowski wrote: > On Thursday 08 of June 2006 16:13, SOON HOAY LOO wrote: > > Hi, I am interested to try out this project. > > can this ronja 10M Metropolis work under window operating system? > > because i use window Xp to run , so wondering if i dun have linux can do > > the software? > > Hi, Quintus, nice to see you on the list again... That's not Quintus: inetnum: 60.48.0.0 - 60.54.255.255 netname: XDSLSTREAMYX descr: Telekom Malaysia Berhad descr: Network Strategy descr: Wisma Telekom descr: Jalan Pantai Baru descr: 50672 Kuala Lumpur CL< From klapek at kki.net.pl Fri Jun 9 20:42:27 2006 From: klapek at kki.net.pl (Tomasz Koprowski) Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2006 21:42:27 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] ask question In-Reply-To: <20060609130824.GB8084@kestrel.barix.local> References: <200606081743.33890.klapek@kki.net.pl> <20060609130824.GB8084@kestrel.barix.local> Message-ID: <200606092142.27271.klapek@kki.net.pl> On Friday 09 of June 2006 15:08, Karel Kulhavy wrote: > > > Hi, I am interested to try out this project. (...) > > Hi, Quintus, nice to see you on the list again... > > That's not Quintus: > inetnum: 60.48.0.0 - 60.54.255.255 > netname: XDSLSTREAMYX > descr: Telekom Malaysia Berhad I apologize. The mail sounded very similar. Regards, Tomek Koprowski From windsloo at hotmail.com Tue Jun 13 10:45:50 2006 From: windsloo at hotmail.com (SOON HOAY LOO) Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 09:45:50 +0000 Subject: [Ronja] software used in window XP Message-ID: May i know what software it use in window XP? And how to set manually full duplex in the network card in window XP? thank you so much. _________________________________________________________________ Get an advanced look at the new version of MSN Messenger. http://messenger.msn.com.my/Beta/Default.aspx From cd930 at centrum.cz Tue Jun 13 11:45:03 2006 From: cd930 at centrum.cz (-=RYS=-) Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 12:45:03 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] software used in window XP In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200606131245.12901@centrum.cz> For?configuration my?3com905b NIC i use?DOS utilite and save config to eeprom NIC for any OS. -=RYS=- ______________________________________________________________ > Od: windsloo na hotmail.com > Komu: ronja na lists.pointless.net > Datum: 13.06.2006 11:46 > P?edm?t: [Ronja] software used in window XP > >May i know what software it use in window XP? >And how to set manually full duplex in the network card in window XP? >thank you so much. > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get an advanced look at the new version of MSN Messenger. >http://messenger.msn.com.my/Beta/Default.aspx > > >_______________________________________________ >Ronja mailing list >Ronja na lists.pointless.net >http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > ------------- dal?? ??st --------------- HTML p??loha byla odstran?na... URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20060613/0d0045ad/attachment.html From antitron at web.de Tue Jun 13 15:13:01 2006 From: antitron at web.de (Thomas Egenhofer) Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 16:13:01 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] software used in window XP In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1150207981.2282.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> > May i know what software it use in window XP? you dont need anything besides the networkcard-driver for normal opperation. for testing you could use the ping command. or try around with nbtstat oder netstat(those 2 might be useless after all). > And how to set manually full duplex in the network card in window XP? > thank you so much. have a look into the system control stuff. if i remember correctly you can find it somewhere near the driver info (sory have no win for over a jear). should look like this (googled image) http://www.yorku.ca/computing/students/internet/airyork/images/win_setup_22.gif the rest of the page contains where you can find the tab. http://www.yorku.ca/computing/students/internet/airyork/winxp_setup.html good luck. thommy e. bdw. anyone tried this CPLD stuff called spider? i got some chips quiet cheap and wannted to try it. From clock at twibright.com Tue Jun 13 20:52:36 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 21:52:36 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] software used in window XP In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20060613195236.GA27317@kestrel> On Tue, Jun 13, 2006 at 09:45:50AM +0000, SOON HOAY LOO wrote: > May i know what software it use in window XP? > And how to set manually full duplex in the network card in window XP? I don't know - I am not familiar with Windows XP as I use consistently Linux. Please refer to the documentation with your operating system. CL< > thank you so much. > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get an advanced look at the new version of MSN Messenger. > http://messenger.msn.com.my/Beta/Default.aspx > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From antitron at web.de Sun Jun 18 19:53:49 2006 From: antitron at web.de (Thomas Egenhofer) Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 20:53:49 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] status on luxeon driver? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1150656829.5575.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> hi again, after working my way thorugh the spider cpld-stuff i'm still unable to get sender LED's. anyone know if the 1(or3)watt luxeon led's are fast enought under normal opperation 0V/5V? since this seems to be part of Ronja Aisha- how's the devellopment going on there. homepage says about 30%, any updates to this? thx in advance thommy e From clock at twibright.com Mon Jun 19 13:50:17 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 14:50:17 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] status on luxeon driver? In-Reply-To: <1150656829.5575.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1150656829.5575.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20060619125017.GB25106@kestrel.barix.local> On Sun, Jun 18, 2006 at 08:53:49PM +0200, Thomas Egenhofer wrote: > hi again, > > after working my way thorugh the spider cpld-stuff i'm still unable to > get sender LED's. > anyone know if the 1(or3)watt luxeon led's are fast enought under normal > opperation 0V/5V? > since this seems to be part of Ronja Aisha- how's the devellopment going > on there. homepage says about 30%, any updates to this? No, currently I am doing fixes. I have just removed all HTML errors from the Ronja pages :) (Well those that Weblint can discover). Now I am going to do tests of Twister2 which itself is a fix. CL< > > thx in advance > thommy e > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From qjmurray at hotmail.com Mon Jun 19 20:50:11 2006 From: qjmurray at hotmail.com (kqj rocks) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 15:50:11 -0400 Subject: [Ronja] Ronja Digest, Vol 38, Issue 8 Message-ID: You can find UWB devices to boost ronja's speed by going to www.wisair.com _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20060619/01db450a/attachment.html From kubajz at kbx.cz Tue Jun 20 08:19:10 2006 From: kubajz at kbx.cz (Jakub Sykora) Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 09:19:10 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Ronja Digest, Vol 38, Issue 8 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4497A16E.6050404@kbx.cz> Hi Quintus - nice to hear from you again. The bottleneck of Ronja is not in chipset... The main bottleneck is LED driving etc... K kqj rocks napsal(a): > > > > > > You can find UWB devices to boost ronja's speed by going to > www.wisair.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! MSN Messenger > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja na lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja -- Jakub S?kora email: kubajz na kbx.cz <') ICQ: 68976632 ( =- mobil: +420 777 594 201 '' ------------- dal?? ??st --------------- Netextov? p??loha byla odstran?na... Jm?no: kubajz.vcf Typ: text/x-vcard Velikost: 265 bytes Popis: [??dn? popis nen? k dispozici] Url : http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20060620/c46338c3/attachment.vcf From clock at twibright.com Tue Jun 20 13:08:47 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 14:08:47 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] ronja project In-Reply-To: <20060620074950.94384.qmail@web55012.mail.re4.yahoo.com> References: <20060620074950.94384.qmail@web55012.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20060620120847.GB28841@kestrel.barix.local> On Tue, Jun 20, 2006 at 12:49:50AM -0700, yatna supriatna wrote: > 1. give me abaout costs of tools form ronja device (complete) Sorry I never summed up the tool cost. > 2. give me soft ware use its It depends on your operating systems and cards you use. > 3. give me block diagram of receiver, transmiter, and modem conect to > computer, transmiter, and receiver See http://ronja.twibright.com CL< From antitron at web.de Thu Jun 22 19:03:57 2006 From: antitron at web.de (Thomas Egenhofer) Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 20:03:57 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] status on luxeon driver? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1150999437.3513.24.camel@localhost.localdomain> > > > > after working my way thorugh the spider cpld-stuff i'm still unable to > > get sender LED's. > > anyone know if the 1(or3)watt luxeon led's are fast enought under normal > > opperation 0V/5V? > > since this seems to be part of Ronja Aisha- how's the devellopment going > > on there. homepage says about 30%, any updates to this? > > No, currently I am doing fixes. I have just removed all HTML errors from > the Ronja pages :) (Well those that Weblint can discover). > > Now I am going to do tests of Twister2 which itself is a fix. > > CL< well i guess thats what's beeing needed to create a satisfying product. earlyer today i asked my classmate to check if the 1W red luxeon led could opperate at the desired speeds. he checked a 14mhz signal from a quarzoszillator which was used to controll a standart transistor connected to the led and a led-resistor. receiver was a sfh203 with 1kOhm in reverse voltage in front of the led.->dead simple test circuit: results so far. both waveforms are not cleanly digital(neither clock nor received light output) (might be due to cheap test cable on the oszi) but both signals have almost perfectly same zero-crossings time and are very simmilar. led opperated with a limmited current of around 30mA and the voltage on the receiver diode end was about 500mVpp. the received waveform is almost a trinagular one, but the signal at the clock looks like triangular with a small flat on one end. so almost the same, i guess it really is the oszi or its cable messing up the displayed signals. i have high hopes to get a led-driver together ,which might not be satisfying like the rest of ronja aims to be but still works for people with trouble getting the right led's. anyone who would like to help out, bringing in ideas or experience or helping out testing it would be very welcome. greetings thommy e ps: please clock dont blame me. i just cant get those led's and i think luxeon are ways easyer to get these day's(even with a optic on them). and dont yell at me if i end up using parts of the existing design ;) thx=). From clock at twibright.com Thu Jun 22 19:37:56 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 20:37:56 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Twister2 EMI test Message-ID: <20060622183756.GA9923@kestrel.barix.local> I have tested Twister2. Twister basically had 8.4mVpp edge remains on the 12V line. Twister2 has only about 1mVpp remains. The measurement was done with 1mVpp background noise which couldn't be removed so the precision is low. However it's sure that Twister2 is a great improvement as compared to Twister regarding the electromagnetic radiation. CL< From clock at twibright.com Fri Jun 23 12:38:25 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 13:38:25 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] status on luxeon driver? In-Reply-To: <1150999437.3513.24.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1150999437.3513.24.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20060623113825.GB1744@kestrel.barix.local> On Thu, Jun 22, 2006 at 08:03:57PM +0200, Thomas Egenhofer wrote: > > > > > > after working my way thorugh the spider cpld-stuff i'm still unable to > > > get sender LED's. > > > anyone know if the 1(or3)watt luxeon led's are fast enought under normal > > > opperation 0V/5V? > > > since this seems to be part of Ronja Aisha- how's the devellopment going > > > on there. homepage says about 30%, any updates to this? > > > > No, currently I am doing fixes. I have just removed all HTML errors from > > the Ronja pages :) (Well those that Weblint can discover). > > > > Now I am going to do tests of Twister2 which itself is a fix. > > > > CL< > well i guess thats what's beeing needed to create a satisfying product. > earlyer today i asked my classmate to check if the 1W red luxeon led > could opperate at the desired speeds. he checked a 14mhz signal from a > quarzoszillator which was used to controll a standart transistor > connected to the led and a led-resistor. receiver was a sfh203 with > 1kOhm in reverse voltage in front of the led.->dead simple test circuit: > results so far. > both waveforms are not cleanly digital(neither clock nor received light > output) (might be due to cheap test cable on the oszi) but both signals > have almost perfectly same zero-crossings time and are very simmilar. > led opperated with a limmited current of around 30mA and the voltage on > the receiver diode end was about 500mVpp. the received waveform is > almost a trinagular one, but the signal at the clock looks like > triangular with a small flat on one end. so almost the same, i guess it > really is the oszi or its cable messing up the displayed signals. > > i have high hopes to get a led-driver together ,which might not be > satisfying like the rest of ronja aims to be but still works for people > with trouble getting the right led's. > anyone who would like to help out, bringing in ideas or experience or > helping out testing it would be very welcome. > > greetings > thommy e > > ps: please clock dont blame me. i just cant get those led's and i think > luxeon are ways easyer to get these day's(even with a optic on them). You should be able to get them from Ondrej Tesar boza2 at volny.cz CL< > and dont yell at me if i end up using parts of the existing design ;) > thx=). > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From clock at twibright.com Sat Jun 24 23:01:10 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 00:01:10 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Ronja T-shirt idea Message-ID: <20060624220110.GA8836@kestrel> A red-orange T-shirt front http://ronja.twibright.com/drawings/forever.png back http://ronja.twibright.com/drawings/forever_back.png The red-orange circle symbolizes the circle of light emitted by the Ronja TX when it falls on a wall. The dark blue colour symbolizes the colour of evening sky when Ronja is usually seen with the most visual impact. The wave shape is taken from RX output with 1-0 bit sequence. The "surfing forever" means that one can use the link (e. g. for surfing on Internet) without any future limitation (there will be no spectrum clog, change in radio spectrum regulation etc.) It can be also interpreted as an image of sun behind a surf wave, the red-ogrange a colour of setting sun, the dark blue color of evening ocean, and "surfing forever" interpreted literally :) Your opinions? CL< From clock at twibright.com Sun Jun 25 00:14:30 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 01:14:30 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Another 2 ideas for a t-shirt Message-ID: <20060624231430.GA9399@kestrel> http://ronja.twibright.com/drawings/lightwaves.png http://ronja.twibright.com/drawings/wipeout.png I would like to note that it doesn't symbolize Jakub Ladman's Ronja Aquarium model :) CL< From clock at twibright.com Sun Jun 25 12:26:00 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 13:26:00 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Another idea for a t-shirt Message-ID: <20060625112600.GA19057@kestrel> http://ronja.twibright.com/drawings/surfing.png I also changed the back - added the logo: http://ronja.twibright.com/drawings/forever_back.png Do you think the back is better without a logo or with? CL< From boza2 at volny.cz Sun Jun 25 23:16:57 2006 From: boza2 at volny.cz (boza2 at volny.cz) Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 00:16:57 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [Ronja] =?iso-8859-2?q?Another_idea_for_a_t-shirt?= In-Reply-To: <20060625112600.GA19057@kestrel> References: <20060625112600.GA19057@kestrel> Message-ID: <7e889e2f2d98091cc1e29fa1e3049876@www3.mail.volny.cz> I already have t-shirt with Ronja logo: http://boza.praha12.net/ronja/P1060181.JPG http://boza.praha12.net/ronja/P1060182.JPG http://boza.praha12.net/ronja/P1060183.JPG http://boza.praha12.net/ronja/P1060184.JPG For inspiration... Boza ----- P?VODN? ZPR?VA ----- Od: "Karel Kulhavy" Komu: "Twibright Ronja" P?edm?t: [Ronja] Another idea for a t-shirt Datum: 25.6.2006 - 13:26:00 > http://ronja.twibright.com/drawings/surfing.png > I also changed the back - added the logo: > http://ronja.twibright.com/drawings/forever_back.png > > Do you think the back is better without a logo or with? > > CL< > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > From discover at fly.srk.fer.hr Mon Jun 26 08:58:05 2006 From: discover at fly.srk.fer.hr (Silvije) Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 09:58:05 +0200 (MEST) Subject: [Ronja] Another 2 ideas for a t-shirt In-Reply-To: <20060624231430.GA9399@kestrel> References: <20060624231430.GA9399@kestrel> Message-ID: Hehe, very nice :) Maybe you could add: My horse never gets tired :))) On Sun, 25 Jun 2006, Karel Kulhavy wrote: > http://ronja.twibright.com/drawings/lightwaves.png > http://ronja.twibright.com/drawings/wipeout.png > > I would like to note that it doesn't symbolize Jakub Ladman's > Ronja Aquarium model :) > > CL< > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > From clock at twibright.com Mon Jun 26 15:04:56 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 16:04:56 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Another 2 ideas for a t-shirt In-Reply-To: References: <20060624231430.GA9399@kestrel> Message-ID: <20060626140455.GA21792@kestrel.barix.local> On Mon, Jun 26, 2006 at 09:58:05AM +0200, Silvije wrote: > > > Hehe, > > very nice :) Thanks > > Maybe you could add: My horse never gets tired :))) That doesn't have a thrilling double connotation with surfing :) But I could make "I never broke my board and I surf in storms" :) CL< > > > > > On Sun, 25 Jun 2006, Karel Kulhavy wrote: > > > http://ronja.twibright.com/drawings/lightwaves.png > > http://ronja.twibright.com/drawings/wipeout.png > > > > I would like to note that it doesn't symbolize Jakub Ladman's > > Ronja Aquarium model :) > > > > CL< > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ronja mailing list > > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From clock at twibright.com Wed Jun 28 15:57:04 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 16:57:04 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Source for some parts Message-ID: <20060628145704.GA15307@kestrel.barix.local> I came across this: http://eshop.skfree.sk/index.php?cPath=2&language=sk I don't know how they are reliable. I also noticed they say that Twister supports 100m of cable. Ronja Twister specification says that only 1m of cable is allowed. Some people might be interested in this shop as a source of the 3 components displayed. CL< From krepa at seznam.cz Wed Jun 28 17:43:34 2006 From: krepa at seznam.cz (=?us-ascii?Q?Pavel=20Krejci?=) Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 18:43:34 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [Ronja] Source for some parts In-Reply-To: <20060628145704.GA15307@kestrel.barix.local> Message-ID: <219.1157-11011-219688515-1151513014@seznam.cz> Hm Hm Ronja TX dioda BPW43 Vysokor?chlostn? LED TX di?da pre kon?trukciu optick?ho poj?tka RONJA. Datasheet - http://einstein.uab.es/xborrise/bpw43.pdf EN: Ronja TX diode BPW43 High speed LED TX diode for RONJA optical link construction Datasheet - http://einstein.uab.es/xborrise/bpw43.pdf I see that they even improved, they can use BPW43 as a transmitter :o) krepa > ------------ P?vodn? zpr?va ------------ > Od: Karel Kulhavy > P?edm?t: [Ronja] Source for some parts > Datum: 28.6.2006 17:02:10 > ---------------------------------------- > I came across this: > http://eshop.skfree.sk/index.php?cPath=2&language=sk > > I don't know how they are reliable. I also noticed they say that Twister > supports 100m of cable. Ronja Twister specification says that only 1m of > cable is allowed. > > Some people might be interested in this shop as a source of the 3 > components displayed. > > CL< > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > > From klapek at kki.net.pl Wed Jun 28 21:50:23 2006 From: klapek at kki.net.pl (Tomasz Koprowski) Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 22:50:23 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Source for some parts In-Reply-To: <219.1157-11011-219688515-1151513014@seznam.cz> References: <219.1157-11011-219688515-1151513014@seznam.cz> Message-ID: <200606282250.23757.klapek@kki.net.pl> On Wednesday 28 of June 2006 18:43, Pavel Krejci wrote: > I see that they even improved, they can use BPW43 as a transmitter :o) If you put enough current through it it will, but not for long ;) Magic smoke? What magic smoke? Greetz, Tomek Koprowski From clock at twibright.com Thu Jun 29 09:28:27 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 10:28:27 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Source for some parts In-Reply-To: <219.1157-11011-219688515-1151513014@seznam.cz> References: <20060628145704.GA15307@kestrel.barix.local> <219.1157-11011-219688515-1151513014@seznam.cz> Message-ID: <20060629082827.GB17910@kestrel.barix.local> On Wed, Jun 28, 2006 at 06:43:34PM +0200, Pavel Krejci wrote: > Hm Hm > > Ronja TX dioda BPW43 > Vysokor?chlostn? LED TX di?da pre kon?trukciu optick?ho poj?tka RONJA. > Datasheet - http://einstein.uab.es/xborrise/bpw43.pdf > > EN: > Ronja TX diode BPW43 > High speed LED TX diode for RONJA optical link construction > Datasheet - http://einstein.uab.es/xborrise/bpw43.pdf > > I see that they even improved, they can use BPW43 as a transmitter :o) Also they misspelled SuperFlux as SuperFlex FULL DUPLEX 10mb - transmits 1 bit every 1minute and 40 seconds luxmen -> lumen HPWT E4000 a RX dioda [...] vhodna ako vysielaci dioda (RX diode suitable as a TX diode) I understand that the selling person may not fully understand the field, but they could at least correctly cut-paste text :) CL< > > krepa > > > > ------------ P?vodn? zpr?va ------------ > > Od: Karel Kulhavy > > P?edm?t: [Ronja] Source for some parts > > Datum: 28.6.2006 17:02:10 > > ---------------------------------------- > > I came across this: > > http://eshop.skfree.sk/index.php?cPath=2&language=sk > > > > I don't know how they are reliable. I also noticed they say that Twister > > supports 100m of cable. Ronja Twister specification says that only 1m of > > cable is allowed. > > > > Some people might be interested in this shop as a source of the 3 > > components displayed. > > > > CL< > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ronja mailing list > > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From karpis at utcpd.sk Fri Jun 30 09:52:37 2006 From: karpis at utcpd.sk (Ondrej Karpis) Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 10:52:37 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Problem s twisterom Message-ID: <44A4E655.9050005@utcpd.sk> Dobry den. Na jar som zakupil elektroniku na Ronju. Optiku a mechaniku som si urobil sam. Koncom maja (kveten :) som to uviedol do prevadzky. Az na problemy so zavadzajucimi konarmi (ked fukal vietor) vsetko fungovalo v poriadku. Teraz sa nieco stalo s jednym twisterom. Vobec neblika cervena LED dioda, ked sa pocitac snazi nieco poslat (napr. ping). Druhy twister je v poriadku. Porovnaval som spotrebu, funkcny twister - 170 mA, nefunkcny - 200 mA. Mam pocit, ze v nefunkcnom twistri sa prehrieva obvod AM26LS32. Je mozne, ze je odpaleny? Alebo blbne nieco ine a len sa to prejavuje na nom? Twister bol umiestneny na povale rodinneho domu. Ked boli minuly tyzden tropicke teploty, mohlo byt na povale aj vyse 40 stupnov. Je to prilis vela? Je niektora suciastka taka citliva na teplotu? Myslel som, ze obvody by nemali mat problem ani s vyssimi teplotami (80 stupnov). Velmi by mi pomohli rady, co mam otestovat, resp. vymenit a na co mam davat pozor. Dakujem Ondrej Karpis From clock at twibright.com Fri Jun 30 11:01:41 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 12:01:41 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Problem s twisterom In-Reply-To: <44A4E655.9050005@utcpd.sk> References: <44A4E655.9050005@utcpd.sk> Message-ID: <20060630100141.GA5892@kestrel.barix.local> On Fri, Jun 30, 2006 at 10:52:37AM +0200, Ondrej Karpis wrote: > Dobry den. > > Na jar som zakupil elektroniku na Ronju. Optiku a mechaniku som si > urobil sam. Koncom maja (kveten :) som to uviedol do prevadzky. Az na > problemy so zavadzajucimi konarmi (ked fukal vietor) vsetko fungovalo v > poriadku. > Teraz sa nieco stalo s jednym twisterom. Vobec neblika cervena LED > dioda, ked sa pocitac snazi nieco poslat (napr. ping). Druhy twister je > v poriadku. > Porovnaval som spotrebu, funkcny twister - 170 mA, nefunkcny - 200 mA. > Mam pocit, ze v nefunkcnom twistri sa prehrieva obvod AM26LS32. Je > mozne, ze je odpaleny? Alebo blbne nieco ine a len sa to prejavuje na nom? > Twister bol umiestneny na povale rodinneho domu. Ked boli minuly tyzden > tropicke teploty, mohlo byt na povale aj vyse 40 stupnov. Je to prilis > vela? Je niektora suciastka taka citliva na teplotu? Myslel som, ze > obvody by nemali mat problem ani s vyssimi teplotami (80 stupnov). > > Velmi by mi pomohli rady, co mam otestovat, resp. vymenit a na co mam > davat pozor. Test Twister according to the test procedures and tell where exactly it fails. http://ronja.twibright.com/twister/testing.php AM26LS32 must not be there. If it's not AM26LS32A then it's wrong and no wonder if it doesn't work. Heat should not matter. However maybe there's a cold joint that expanded by heat. "DS26LS32: AM26LS32A, AM26C32, DS26C32, QP26LS32, 75173. Not AM26LS32!" http://ronja.twibright.com/twister/material.php CL< From max at lozko.com Fri Jun 30 12:44:40 2006 From: max at lozko.com (Max Lozko) Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 14:44:40 +0300 Subject: [Ronja] (no subject) Message-ID: <44A50EA8.8030801@lozko.com> Hi every one, could some one tell me there i can buy ronja lazer link used before or some body making them for sell purposes couse need one pritty fast had no time too build it Any info would be good thanks every one :) From karpis at utcpd.sk Fri Jun 30 12:52:04 2006 From: karpis at utcpd.sk (Ondrej Karpis) Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 13:52:04 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <44A50EA8.8030801@lozko.com> References: <44A50EA8.8030801@lozko.com> Message-ID: <44A51064.4060203@utcpd.sk> Try http://ronja.vyrobce.cz/ Its in czech. Write to Jakub Michnik jakub.michnik na centrum.cz Max Lozko wrote: > Hi every one, could some one tell me there i can buy ronja lazer link > used before or some body making them for sell purposes > couse need one pritty fast had no time too build it > Any info would be good > thanks every one :) > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja na lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > From karpis at utcpd.sk Fri Jun 30 13:20:11 2006 From: karpis at utcpd.sk (Ondrej Karpis) Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 14:20:11 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Problem s twisterom In-Reply-To: <20060630100141.GA5892@kestrel.barix.local> References: <44A4E655.9050005@utcpd.sk> <20060630100141.GA5892@kestrel.barix.local> Message-ID: <44A516FB.4060204@utcpd.sk> Je tam AM26LS32ACN. Vysledok testov: Packetloss on wire loopback - ping verzia - ziadny packetloss (1000 paketov vyslanych, tcpdump zaregistroval 1000 parov paketov) Packetloss - ping verzia - 100% packetloss (1000 paketov vyslanych, tcpdump nezaregistroval ani jednu dvojicu paketov s rovnakym cislom) Co dalej? Ondrej Karpis Karel Kulhavy wrote: > On Fri, Jun 30, 2006 at 10:52:37AM +0200, Ondrej Karpis wrote: >> Dobry den. >> >> Na jar som zakupil elektroniku na Ronju. Optiku a mechaniku som si >> urobil sam. Koncom maja (kveten :) som to uviedol do prevadzky. Az na >> problemy so zavadzajucimi konarmi (ked fukal vietor) vsetko fungovalo v >> poriadku. >> Teraz sa nieco stalo s jednym twisterom. Vobec neblika cervena LED >> dioda, ked sa pocitac snazi nieco poslat (napr. ping). Druhy twister je >> v poriadku. >> Porovnaval som spotrebu, funkcny twister - 170 mA, nefunkcny - 200 mA. >> Mam pocit, ze v nefunkcnom twistri sa prehrieva obvod AM26LS32. Je >> mozne, ze je odpaleny? Alebo blbne nieco ine a len sa to prejavuje na nom? >> Twister bol umiestneny na povale rodinneho domu. Ked boli minuly tyzden >> tropicke teploty, mohlo byt na povale aj vyse 40 stupnov. Je to prilis >> vela? Je niektora suciastka taka citliva na teplotu? Myslel som, ze >> obvody by nemali mat problem ani s vyssimi teplotami (80 stupnov). >> >> Velmi by mi pomohli rady, co mam otestovat, resp. vymenit a na co mam >> davat pozor. > > Test Twister according to the test procedures and tell where exactly > it fails. > http://ronja.twibright.com/twister/testing.php > > AM26LS32 must not be there. If it's not AM26LS32A then it's wrong > and no wonder if it doesn't work. > > Heat should not matter. However maybe there's a cold joint that > expanded by heat. > > "DS26LS32: AM26LS32A, AM26C32, DS26C32, QP26LS32, 75173. Not AM26LS32!" > http://ronja.twibright.com/twister/material.php > > CL< > From tumnao at infomaniak.ch Fri Jun 30 14:38:49 2006 From: tumnao at infomaniak.ch (Tum Nao) Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 15:38:49 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Rx problem Message-ID: <1151674729-37e4fa83daf40fdf139de6b8a3b61dd0@infomaniak.ch> Hi ! I am building a ronja tetrapolis with a friend, and this is a lot of fun (and questions sometime). We have build the electronic, and so far we have successfully transmit an ARP request (wooohoo) but the reply never came back... We've done some check by fliping twister rx and tx, and it seem that this is one of our rx that doesn't work. We are not electronic guys, but we are motivated to spend the time to find the problem. So we have mesurated all testpoints voltages and only 2 are out of tolarated range : Non-fonctionnal rx values: P101 : 11,46 V P102 : 3,57 V P103 : 0 mV - 1 mV (not stable) <--- P104 : 5,57 V P105 : 5,72 V P106 : 4,2 V <--- P107 : 0 V (without tx led) - 3,8 V (with tx led) P108 : 11,62 V P109 : 4,08 V P110 : 12 V The RSSI signal seem to work, as it go to 0 when there is no light signal. The values are pretty the same of the fonctionnal rx, so we don't know what goes wrong : Fonctional rx values : P101 : 11,38 V P102 : 3.55 V P103 : ~0,3 P104 : 5,1 V P105 : 5,66 V P106 : 5,45 P107 : 0 V - 3,87 V P108 : 10,83 V P109 : 5,7 V P110 : 12 V We think that maybe we have overheated the NE592 during soldering (damn! , this is hard to solder on a copper box) but we doesn't have spare parts for now. If somebody have hints, or similar experience, we are interested... Quentin