From clock at twibright.com Mon Aug 7 11:30:34 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 12:30:34 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Twister2 released In-Reply-To: <200608062028.k76KSoah031658@twin.jikos.cz> References: <200608062028.k76KSoah031658@twin.jikos.cz> Message-ID: <20060807103034.GB16244@kestrel.twibright.com> I have released Twister2 http://ronja.twibright.com/twister2/ Twister2 is a remake of the old Twister module. It's the first SMD module of Ronja. The building is simpler and faster. It is smaller and takes 1.4W power less. However the parts are about 30% more expensive (14% in CZ and 45% more in CH). Twister2 has 8x less residual radiation (better shielding) as Twister. Twister2 was designed as a bugfix after someone complained that Ronja is interfering with his TV when Ronja is installed close to the antenna. Photogalery in various states of building: http://images.twibright.com/tns/1e5d.html CL< From ladmanj at volny.cz Mon Aug 7 11:53:12 2006 From: ladmanj at volny.cz (Jakub Ladman) Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 12:53:12 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] test Message-ID: <200608071253.12514.ladmanj@volny.cz> test From ladmanj at volny.cz Mon Aug 7 19:38:00 2006 From: ladmanj at volny.cz (Jakub Ladman) Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 20:38:00 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Hi everyone Message-ID: <200608072038.00680.ladmanj@volny.cz> Hi everyone There was problems with mailing list server. Do you have received this test message? Please stop answering after a some of others answers comes, it is not necesary to receive a answer message from everyone. Jakub Ladman From kubajz at kbx.cz Mon Aug 7 19:47:28 2006 From: kubajz at kbx.cz (Jakub Sykora) Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2006 20:47:28 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Hi everyone In-Reply-To: <200608072038.00680.ladmanj@volny.cz> References: <200608072038.00680.ladmanj@volny.cz> Message-ID: <44D78AC0.2000707@kbx.cz> Yes I received the test message. K Jakub Ladman napsal(a): > Hi everyone > There was problems with mailing list server. > Do you have received this test message? > > Please stop answering after a some of others answers comes, it is not necesary > to receive a answer message from everyone. > > Jakub Ladman > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja na lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja -- Jakub S?kora email: kubajz na kbx.cz <') ICQ: 68976632 ( =- mobil: +420 777 594 201 '' ------------- dal?? ??st --------------- Netextov? p??loha byla odstran?na... Jm?no: kubajz.vcf Typ: text/x-vcard Velikost: 265 bytes Popis: [??dn? popis nen? k dispozici] Url : http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20060807/98fc855d/attachment.vcf From clock at twibright.com Mon Aug 7 21:57:22 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 22:57:22 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] WSFII Ronja Talk on archive.org Message-ID: <20060807205722.GA3346@kestrel.twibright.com> I uploaded the Ronja @WSFII in London talk to archive.org. It was automatically converted into 64kbps MP3 and also offers a stream (MP3) option. http://www.archive.org/details/Ronja_WSFII_London CL< From clock at twibright.com Tue Aug 8 09:20:23 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 10:20:23 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Hi everyone In-Reply-To: <200608072038.00680.ladmanj@volny.cz> References: <200608072038.00680.ladmanj@volny.cz> Message-ID: <20060808082023.GA4647@kestrel.twibright.com> On Mon, Aug 07, 2006 at 08:38:00PM +0200, Jakub Ladman wrote: > Hi everyone > There was problems with mailing list server. Jasper Wallace wrote me that he configured some verification feature to prevent spammers (e-mail addresses that don't exist) sending into the list and that he misconfigured it and when he saw my rejected message in the logs, he fixed it. I asked him how long it was misconfigured but he didn't tell me. However when it was misconfigured I get a undeveliverablerible develivery notification so whoever tried to send should know that it failed and be able to resend. CL< > Do you have received this test message? > > Please stop answering after a some of others answers comes, it is not necesary > to receive a answer message from everyone. > > Jakub Ladman > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From discover at fly.srk.fer.hr Tue Aug 8 09:10:54 2006 From: discover at fly.srk.fer.hr (Silvije) Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 10:10:54 +0200 (MEST) Subject: [Ronja] Tapping in :) In-Reply-To: <20060807205722.GA3346@kestrel.twibright.com> References: <20060807205722.GA3346@kestrel.twibright.com> Message-ID: Hi guys! Is there anyone interested in investigating how really is hard to eavesdrop ronja or other optical link?? I believe it is not so hard no matter what clock says ;) I noticed some really nice reflexions of light from nearby satellite dish so i believe there is other ways of doing this other than man in the middle or man in the back attack :) Probably one would need somewhat more sensitive receiver to go by reflexions.. is there anyone who would like to join construction of such super rx ? regards, s. From seligr at sh.cvut.cz Tue Aug 8 20:44:21 2006 From: seligr at sh.cvut.cz (Petr Seliger) Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 21:44:21 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Tapping in :) In-Reply-To: References: <20060807205722.GA3346@kestrel.twibright.com> Message-ID: <1155066261.44d8e9957cfe4@desitka.sh.cvut.cz> Hi, eavesdroping ronja is pretty easy within hundreds metres. Easier when people does hole in thermal shield too big :) I use 250mm caliber scope with freshnel lens originally developed for 1Gbps optical receiver testing. (Called SBC cannon for its brutal look) It is fitted with discrete transimpedance amplifier with incredible sensitivity compared to Clocks one. But I realized that it is imposible to jam Ronja receiver due its poor sensitivity. Something can be done with 500mW IR laser placed few mrads from link axe when RX optics is poorly focused. Petr > > Hi guys! > > Is there anyone interested in investigating how really is hard > to eavesdrop ronja or other optical link?? > > I believe it is not so hard no matter what clock says ;) > > I noticed some really nice reflexions of light from nearby > satellite dish so i believe there is other ways of doing this > other than man in the middle or man in the back attack :) > > Probably one would need somewhat more sensitive receiver to go > by reflexions.. is there anyone who would like to join > construction of such super rx ? > > > regards, > > s. > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > From discover at fly.srk.fer.hr Mon Aug 14 10:50:02 2006 From: discover at fly.srk.fer.hr (Silvije) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 11:50:02 +0200 (MEST) Subject: [Ronja] Tapping in :) In-Reply-To: <1155066261.44d8e9957cfe4@desitka.sh.cvut.cz> References: <20060807205722.GA3346@kestrel.twibright.com> <1155066261.44d8e9957cfe4@desitka.sh.cvut.cz> Message-ID: Nice to hear ;) are you maybe willing to share your sbc receiver schematic? s. On Tue, 8 Aug 2006, Petr Seliger wrote: > Hi, > eavesdroping ronja is pretty easy within hundreds metres. Easier when people > does hole in thermal shield too big :) I use 250mm caliber scope with freshnel > lens originally developed for 1Gbps optical receiver testing. (Called SBC cannon > for its brutal look) It is fitted with discrete transimpedance amplifier with > incredible sensitivity compared to Clocks one. > But I realized that it is imposible to jam Ronja receiver due its poor > sensitivity. Something can be done with 500mW IR laser placed few mrads from > link axe when RX optics is poorly focused. > > Petr > > > > > Hi guys! > > > > Is there anyone interested in investigating how really is hard > > to eavesdrop ronja or other optical link?? > > > > I believe it is not so hard no matter what clock says ;) > > > > I noticed some really nice reflexions of light from nearby > > satellite dish so i believe there is other ways of doing this > > other than man in the middle or man in the back attack :) > > > > Probably one would need somewhat more sensitive receiver to go > > by reflexions.. is there anyone who would like to join > > construction of such super rx ? > > > > > > regards, > > > > s. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ronja mailing list > > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > From jirka.rozumek at atlas.cz Mon Aug 14 17:30:03 2006 From: jirka.rozumek at atlas.cz (=?iso-8859-2?Q?Ji=F8=ED_Rozumek?=) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 18:30:03 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Prodej optickeho spoje Message-ID: <001701c6bfbe$e53d2940$ac5c2093@maximus> Jelikoz jsme nahradili bezdratovou optiku optikou dratovou nabizim k odprodeji kompletni spoj. Cocky 120 mm, pajeno do vrabciho hnizda (ovsem velmi uhledne - foto zajemcum zaslu). Spoj bezel 3 roky na vzdalenosti cca 300 m bez problemu. Ma na jedne strane AUI a na druhe twistera. Mechanika je uz mirne prorezla - bude chtit min. natrit, lepe vsak opravit. Dam k tomu i topeni na 1 stranu spoje. Vazni zajemci piste na ice-kve.....102.11.73.81 Jiri Rozumek ------------- dal?? ??st --------------- HTML p??loha byla odstran?na... URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20060814/e8cbe983/attachment.html From clock at twibright.com Mon Aug 14 22:03:30 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 23:03:30 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Prodej optickeho spoje In-Reply-To: <001701c6bfbe$e53d2940$ac5c2093@maximus> References: <001701c6bfbe$e53d2940$ac5c2093@maximus> Message-ID: <20060814210330.GA10594@kestrel.twibright.com> On Mon, Aug 14, 2006 at 06:30:03PM +0200, Ji?? Rozumek wrote: > > Jelikoz jsme nahradili bezdratovou optiku optikou dratovou nabizim k > odprodeji kompletni spoj. Cocky 120 mm, pajeno do vrabciho hnizda (ovsem > velmi uhledne - foto zajemcum zaslu). Spoj bezel 3 roky na > vzdalenosti cca 300 m bez problemu. Ma na jedne strane AUI a na druhe > twistera. Mechanika je uz mirne prorezla - bude chtit min. natrit, lepe vsak > opravit. Dam k tomu i topeni na 1 stranu spoje. Vazni zajemci piste na > ice-kve.....102.11.73.81 Je uz v galerii? Pokud by nevadilo z hlediska diskretnosti pridal bych do galerie s poznamkou demontovano... CL< > > Jiri Rozumek > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From jirka.rozumek at atlas.cz Tue Aug 15 17:44:28 2006 From: jirka.rozumek at atlas.cz (=?iso-8859-2?Q?Ji=F8=ED_Rozumek?=) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 18:44:28 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Prodej optickeho spoje Message-ID: <003201c6c08a$131f5c40$ac5c2093@maximus> Fotky jedne strany spoje a elektroniky jsou na http://ronja.xf.cz . Jedna se o jednu z instalaci v Tupesich - v galerii jsou fotky z jine instalace. Jinak todle byla posledni tupeska Ronja, vsechny ostatni uz jsou nahrazeny 5 GHz spoji. Co se tyka prodeje tak na prodej budou asi vsecky, ale osobne "vlastnim" jen jednu. Co se tyka ostatnich tak mam kontakt na cloveka co by to mohl zprostredkovat. Jiri Rozumek ------------- dal?? ??st --------------- HTML p??loha byla odstran?na... URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20060815/a248ebe3/attachment.html From clock at twibright.com Thu Aug 17 15:09:28 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 16:09:28 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] info and cost In-Reply-To: <4024.203.91.134.25.1155708150.squirrel@mail.stupanet.com.np> References: <4024.203.91.134.25.1155708150.squirrel@mail.stupanet.com.np> Message-ID: <20060817140928.GA18199@kestrel.twibright.com> On Wed, Aug 16, 2006 at 11:47:30AM +0545, dandy at stupanet.com.np wrote: > Hi, > > I would like to know do you sell Ronja Tetrapolis with all the modules > included. And I would like to know the lens used in Ronja Tetrapolis, is No, please see this http://ronja.twibright.com/buyronja.php > it the one used in optical mouse. Definitely not, the one in optical mouse is tiny. CL< > > > Regards, > Dandy From jdb at lartmaker.nl Mon Aug 21 02:45:54 2006 From: jdb at lartmaker.nl (J.D. Bakker) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 03:45:54 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Speed question In-Reply-To: References: <20060531190245.GB21205@Galilei.galilei.homelinux.net> <20060602175806.GA23785@Galilei.galilei.homelinux.net> Message-ID: On 02/06/2006, I wrote: >[I finally have all parts for the 10Mb Luxeon TX proto, but no time >to play with them...] Update: With a 1W red Luxeon and a driver circuit very much like http://www.lartmaker.nl/cm-leddriver.png I get a total system rise time[1] around 30ns, and a fall time <10ns. This alone should be sufficient for 10Mbps operation if a simple digital pulse shaper is added. Tomorrow I'll see if I can't make that rise time faster with a RC filter between the LED and the FET. JDB. [1] System rise time == combined rise time of FET driver, FET, LED and detector. -- LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files. http://www.lartmaker.nl/ From clock at twibright.com Mon Aug 21 13:47:18 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 14:47:18 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Speed question In-Reply-To: References: <20060531190245.GB21205@Galilei.galilei.homelinux.net> <20060602175806.GA23785@Galilei.galilei.homelinux.net> Message-ID: <20060821124718.GB8179@kestrel.twibright.com> On Mon, Aug 21, 2006 at 03:45:54AM +0200, J.D. Bakker wrote: > On 02/06/2006, I wrote: > >[I finally have all parts for the 10Mb Luxeon TX proto, but no time > >to play with them...] > > Update: With a 1W red Luxeon and a driver circuit very much like > http://www.lartmaker.nl/cm-leddriver.png I get a total system rise > time[1] around 30ns, and a fall time <10ns. This alone should be > sufficient for 10Mbps operation if a simple digital pulse shaper is > added. Good :) So make some good circuit which is not crappy and maybe you make the Luxeon driver faster than I manage to find time for it ;-) The digital pulse shaper is already in the existing TX. CL< > > Tomorrow I'll see if I can't make that rise time faster with a RC > filter between the LED and the FET. > > JDB. > [1] System rise time == combined rise time of FET driver, FET, LED > and detector. > -- > LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files. > http://www.lartmaker.nl/ > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From jdb at lartmaker.nl Mon Aug 21 14:29:05 2006 From: jdb at lartmaker.nl (J.D. Bakker) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 15:29:05 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Speed question In-Reply-To: <20060821124718.GB8179@kestrel.twibright.com> References: <20060531190245.GB21205@Galilei.galilei.homelinux.net> <20060602175806.GA23785@Galilei.galilei.homelinux.net> <20060821124718.GB8179@kestrel.twibright.com> Message-ID: >On Mon, Aug 21, 2006 at 03:45:54AM +0200, J.D. Bakker wrote: >> On 02/06/2006, I wrote: >> >[I finally have all parts for the 10Mb Luxeon TX proto, but no time >> >to play with them...] >> >> Update: With a 1W red Luxeon and a driver circuit very much like >> http://www.lartmaker.nl/cm-leddriver.png I get a total system rise >> time[1] around 30ns, and a fall time <10ns. This alone should be >> sufficient for 10Mbps operation if a simple digital pulse shaper is >> added. > >Good :) So make some good circuit which is not crappy and maybe you make the >Luxeon driver faster than I manage to find time for it ;-) The circuit right now is very much not crappy -- it's a hacked up version of my <10ns pulse laser driver. It's more like overkill, since the driver was designed for 30Amp pulses which I'm sure a 1W Luxeon won't like very much ;-) My main goal is to have a circuit which is not only fast enough, but also uses cheap off-the-shelf components which can easily be hand soldered (which is not the case for the Si7848 FET I use ATM). >The digital pulse shaper is already in the existing TX. Where ? What is needed is a simple pulse stretcher -- turn a 50ns '1' into a 60ns '1'. JDB. -- LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files. http://www.lartmaker.nl/ From clock at twibright.com Mon Aug 21 15:13:13 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 16:13:13 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Speed question In-Reply-To: References: <20060531190245.GB21205@Galilei.galilei.homelinux.net> <20060602175806.GA23785@Galilei.galilei.homelinux.net> <20060821124718.GB8179@kestrel.twibright.com> Message-ID: <20060821141313.GA28599@kestrel.twibright.com> On Mon, Aug 21, 2006 at 03:29:05PM +0200, J.D. Bakker wrote: > >On Mon, Aug 21, 2006 at 03:45:54AM +0200, J.D. Bakker wrote: > >> On 02/06/2006, I wrote: > >> >[I finally have all parts for the 10Mb Luxeon TX proto, but no time > >> >to play with them...] > >> > >> Update: With a 1W red Luxeon and a driver circuit very much like > >> http://www.lartmaker.nl/cm-leddriver.png I get a total system rise > >> time[1] around 30ns, and a fall time <10ns. This alone should be > >> sufficient for 10Mbps operation if a simple digital pulse shaper is > >> added. > > > >Good :) So make some good circuit which is not crappy and maybe you make the > >Luxeon driver faster than I manage to find time for it ;-) > > The circuit right now is very much not crappy -- it's a hacked up > version of my <10ns pulse laser driver. It's more like overkill, > since the driver was designed for 30Amp pulses which I'm sure a 1W > Luxeon won't like very much ;-) Why do you think Luxeon is not gonna like 30A pulses? The sharper the waves are, the easier the Internet surfer catches the wave with his home-built board (catch a wave and you're sitting on top of the world). > > My main goal is to have a circuit which is not only fast enough, but > also uses cheap off-the-shelf components which can easily be hand > soldered (which is not the case for the Si7848 FET I use ATM). > > >The digital pulse shaper is already in the existing TX. > > Where ? What is needed is a simple pulse stretcher -- turn a 50ns '1' > into a 60ns '1'. It's between the pair of transistor and the input into the gates. You can set the amount of stretching by resistors in the divider there. CL< > > JDB. > -- > LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files. > http://www.lartmaker.nl/ > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From jdb at lartmaker.nl Mon Aug 21 15:38:21 2006 From: jdb at lartmaker.nl (J.D. Bakker) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 16:38:21 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Speed question In-Reply-To: <20060821141313.GA28599@kestrel.twibright.com> References: <20060531190245.GB21205@Galilei.galilei.homelinux.net> <20060602175806.GA23785@Galilei.galilei.homelinux.net> <20060821124718.GB8179@kestrel.twibright.com> <20060821141313.GA28599@kestrel.twibright.com> Message-ID: Karel spoke thus: >On Mon, Aug 21, 2006 at 03:29:05PM +0200, J.D. Bakker wrote: > > The circuit right now is very much not crappy -- it's a hacked up >> version of my <10ns pulse laser driver. It's more like overkill, >> since the driver was designed for 30Amp pulses which I'm sure a 1W >> Luxeon won't like very much ;-) > >Why do you think Luxeon is not gonna like 30A pulses? I'm not sure about 30A pulses, but terms like 'lattice deformation' come to mind. It's been over a decade since I took Semiconductor Physics. OTOH, I'm pretty sure that an 1W Luxeon will not survive 30A with a 50% duty cycle for long ;-) In other news, I'm afraid that the 100MBps optical link I'm working on will require 4-layer PCBs :-( . All components will still be chosen for easy availability and hand-solderability (SMD pitch >=0.8mm). JDB. [now looking into cheap ways to include PoE] -- LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files. http://www.lartmaker.nl/ From arunk at speedpost.net Mon Aug 21 15:42:54 2006 From: arunk at speedpost.net (Arun Krishnan) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 20:12:54 +0530 Subject: [Ronja] Speed question In-Reply-To: References: <20060531190245.GB21205@Galilei.galilei.homelinux.net> <20060602175806.GA23785@Galilei.galilei.homelinux.net> <20060821124718.GB8179@kestrel.twibright.com> <20060821141313.GA28599@kestrel.twibright.com> Message-ID: <1156171374.26623.269045113@webmail.messagingengine.com> Interesting work that you're doing Mr. Bakker. Bring it on :D Regards, Arun P.S.: I would really appreciate it when and if you publish your project(s), you would provide a document that explains how the circuit works - like the Twister2 schematic f.ex. Thanks in advance :) ----- Original message ----- From: "J.D. Bakker" To: "Twibright Ronja" Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 16:38:21 +0200 Subject: Re: [Ronja] Speed question Karel spoke thus: >On Mon, Aug 21, 2006 at 03:29:05PM +0200, J.D. Bakker wrote: > > The circuit right now is very much not crappy -- it's a hacked up >> version of my <10ns pulse laser driver. It's more like overkill, >> since the driver was designed for 30Amp pulses which I'm sure a 1W >> Luxeon won't like very much ;-) > >Why do you think Luxeon is not gonna like 30A pulses? I'm not sure about 30A pulses, but terms like 'lattice deformation' come to mind. It's been over a decade since I took Semiconductor Physics. OTOH, I'm pretty sure that an 1W Luxeon will not survive 30A with a 50% duty cycle for long ;-) In other news, I'm afraid that the 100MBps optical link I'm working on will require 4-layer PCBs :-( . All components will still be chosen for easy availability and hand-solderability (SMD pitch >=0.8mm). JDB. [now looking into cheap ways to include PoE] -- LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files. http://www.lartmaker.nl/ _______________________________________________ Ronja mailing list Ronja at lists.pointless.net http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From clock at twibright.com Mon Aug 21 20:27:21 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 21:27:21 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Speed question In-Reply-To: References: <20060531190245.GB21205@Galilei.galilei.homelinux.net> <20060602175806.GA23785@Galilei.galilei.homelinux.net> <20060821124718.GB8179@kestrel.twibright.com> <20060821141313.GA28599@kestrel.twibright.com> Message-ID: <20060821192721.GA14548@kestrel.twibright.com> On Mon, Aug 21, 2006 at 04:38:21PM +0200, J.D. Bakker wrote: > Karel spoke thus: > >On Mon, Aug 21, 2006 at 03:29:05PM +0200, J.D. Bakker wrote: > > > The circuit right now is very much not crappy -- it's a hacked up > >> version of my <10ns pulse laser driver. It's more like overkill, > >> since the driver was designed for 30Amp pulses which I'm sure a 1W > >> Luxeon won't like very much ;-) > > > >Why do you think Luxeon is not gonna like 30A pulses? > > I'm not sure about 30A pulses, but terms like 'lattice deformation' > come to mind. It's been over a decade since I took Semiconductor > Physics. > > OTOH, I'm pretty sure that an 1W Luxeon will not survive 30A with a > 50% duty cycle for long ;-) I thought you meant 30A just charging current and the current level during the pulse would stay appropriate to maximum rating > In other news, I'm afraid that the 100MBps optical link I'm working > on will require 4-layer PCBs :-( . All components will still be That's not a problem. CL< > chosen for easy availability and hand-solderability (SMD > pitch >=0.8mm). > > JDB. > [now looking into cheap ways to include PoE] > -- > LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files. > http://www.lartmaker.nl/ > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From vojtech.cizinsky at centrum.cz Tue Aug 22 17:45:34 2006 From: vojtech.cizinsky at centrum.cz (vojtech.cizinsky at centrum.cz) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 18:45:34 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] RX na PCB od K.J.Skontorpa In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200608221845.13380@centrum.cz> Neni tu nekdo kdo ma kontakt na Ondru Tesare nebo by mi mohl napsat vice o techto plosnych spojich? Treba kde je koupit a za kolik a jestli je zkousel. Vojta ?. From jakub.michnik at centrum.cz Tue Aug 22 17:59:00 2006 From: jakub.michnik at centrum.cz (=?windows-1250?Q?Jakub_Michn=EDk?=) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 18:59:00 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] RX na PCB od K.J.Skontorpa In-Reply-To: <200608221845.13380@centrum.cz> References: <200608221845.13380@centrum.cz> Message-ID: <44EB37D4.5040601@centrum.cz> je to vsechno napsane na wiki, najdi si to tam. zkousel je. ja jsem udelal upravu pro smd NE592, funguje to taky. upravene si muzes stahnout na http://ronja.vyrobce.cz/ele/rx/rx.htm vojtech.cizinsky na centrum.cz napsal(a): > Neni tu nekdo kdo ma kontakt na Ondru Tesare nebo by mi mohl napsat vice o techto plosnych spojich? Treba kde je koupit a za kolik a jestli je zkousel. > > Vojta ?. > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja na lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From kendy at hkfree.org Tue Aug 22 18:13:16 2006 From: kendy at hkfree.org (Kendy) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 19:13:16 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] RX na PCB od K.J.Skontorpa In-Reply-To: <44EB37D4.5040601@centrum.cz> References: <200608221845.13380@centrum.cz> <44EB37D4.5040601@centrum.cz> Message-ID: <44EB3B2C.4000101@hkfree.org> Skontorp, neni to nahodou ta konstruke RX co silne kmita ? Jakub Michn?k napsal(a): > je to vsechno napsane na wiki, najdi si to tam. zkousel je. ja jsem > udelal upravu pro smd NE592, funguje to taky. upravene si muzes stahnout > na http://ronja.vyrobce.cz/ele/rx/rx.htm > > > vojtech.cizinsky na centrum.cz napsal(a): > >>Neni tu nekdo kdo ma kontakt na Ondru Tesare nebo by mi mohl napsat vice o techto plosnych spojich? Treba kde je koupit a za kolik a jestli je zkousel. >> >>Vojta ?. >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Ronja mailing list >>Ronja na lists.pointless.net >>http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja na lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From ladmanj at volny.cz Tue Aug 22 19:51:54 2006 From: ladmanj at volny.cz (Jakub Ladman) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 20:51:54 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] T2 schematic circuit diagram Message-ID: <200608222051.54120.ladmanj@volny.cz> Please let me know where is schematic circuit diagram of twister2. I can't found it. I have found populating plan, drawings of T2 box with guide how to do it, but not the only i want. Jakub Ladman From arunk at speedpost.net Tue Aug 22 20:57:23 2006 From: arunk at speedpost.net (Arun Krishnan) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 01:27:23 +0530 Subject: [Ronja] T2 schematic circuit diagram In-Reply-To: <200608222051.54120.ladmanj@volny.cz> References: <200608222051.54120.ladmanj@volny.cz> Message-ID: <1156276643.10951.269168453@webmail.messagingengine.com> http://ronja.twibright.com/schematics/ Regards, Arun ----- Original message ----- From: "Jakub Ladman" To: "Twibright Ronja" Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 20:51:54 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] T2 schematic circuit diagram Please let me know where is schematic circuit diagram of twister2. I can't found it. I have found populating plan, drawings of T2 box with guide how to do it, but not the only i want. Jakub Ladman _______________________________________________ Ronja mailing list Ronja at lists.pointless.net http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From ladmanj at volny.cz Tue Aug 22 23:36:19 2006 From: ladmanj at volny.cz (Jakub Ladman) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 00:36:19 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] T2 schematic circuit diagram In-Reply-To: <1156276643.10951.269168453@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <200608222051.54120.ladmanj@volny.cz> <1156276643.10951.269168453@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <200608230036.19752.ladmanj@volny.cz> Thanks Dne ?ter? 22 srpen 2006 21:57 Arun Krishnan napsal(a): > http://ronja.twibright.com/schematics/ > > Regards, > Arun > > > ----- Original message ----- > From: "Jakub Ladman" > To: "Twibright Ronja" > Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 20:51:54 +0200 > Subject: [Ronja] T2 schematic circuit diagram > > Please let me know where is schematic circuit diagram of twister2. > I can't found it. I have found populating plan, drawings of T2 box with > guide > how to do it, but not the only i want. > > Jakub Ladman > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From di.mi at centrum.cz Wed Aug 23 05:39:53 2006 From: di.mi at centrum.cz (di.mi at centrum.cz) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 06:39:53 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] nefunguje twister, R70 shori po zapnuti Message-ID: <200608230639.8556@centrum.cz> Ahoj, postavil jsem Ronju Tetrapolis, vse na plosnaky (Rx+TX SMD by KJS), testoval jsem na 300m, vse fungovalo OK, RSSI 3.6V, 3.7V. Pak jsem predelal kabelaz - misto 2 koaxu jsem pouzil velice kvalitne stinenou 3linku a na vstup Rx pridal 3x1uF + tlumivku kvuli snizeni ruseni TV. Chvili se zdalo, ze to jede ok, ale pak na obou twisterech doslova shorel R70. Test loopbackem projde, ale pokud spojim 2 prostredni piny na CONN53 (rx,tx) tak zas R70 shori - tzn. tedka uz neni ani nutne pripojit moduly, asi je pytli nejakej IO, ale kterej? Jo a stavel jsem dalsi 2 twistery, pajel jsem je oba zaroven - U63 na jeden, U63 na druhy; U64 na jeden, U64 na druhy, po dokonceni me jeden fungoval, druhy ne - prosel loopback, ale ne test s vyzkratovanim rx,tx - svitila cervena LED. Neni nekde seznam testpointu pro Twister, abych vedel, co je spatne? Predem moc diky za pomoc. From jakub.michnik at centrum.cz Wed Aug 23 08:43:23 2006 From: jakub.michnik at centrum.cz (=?ISO-8859-2?Q?Jakub_Michn=EDk?=) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 09:43:23 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] plosnaky na TW2 Message-ID: <44EC071B.5010105@centrum.cz> caute, zajimalo by me jestli nekdo nechava delat vetsi (nebo i mensi) mnozstvi plosnaku na twistra2. to same s Rx od mnagy. na ronjashop jsou skontorpove Rx uz nedostupne, ale nove nic. dik From seligr at sh.cvut.cz Wed Aug 23 10:29:59 2006 From: seligr at sh.cvut.cz (Petr Seliger) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 11:29:59 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] RX na PCB od K.J.Skontorpa In-Reply-To: <44EB3B2C.4000101@hkfree.org> References: <200608221845.13380@centrum.cz> <44EB37D4.5040601@centrum.cz> <44EB3B2C.4000101@hkfree.org> Message-ID: <1156325399.44ec2017931ac@desitka.sh.cvut.cz> Jo je, vesele to rusi nejen III.TV pasmo. Navic to ma blbe navrzene sirky vodicu a izolacni mezery, ze obcas fa. Kohout vyrobi neco se zkraty a blbe se to paji. > Skontorp, neni to nahodou ta konstruke RX co silne kmita ? > > Jakub Michn?k napsal(a): > > > je to vsechno napsane na wiki, najdi si to tam. zkousel je. ja jsem > > udelal upravu pro smd NE592, funguje to taky. upravene si muzes stahnout > > na http://ronja.vyrobce.cz/ele/rx/rx.htm > > > > > > vojtech.cizinsky at centrum.cz napsal(a): > > > >>Neni tu nekdo kdo ma kontakt na Ondru Tesare nebo by mi mohl napsat vice o > techto plosnych spojich? Treba kde je koupit a za kolik a jestli je zkousel. > > >> > >>Vojta ?. > >> > >> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>Ronja mailing list > >>Ronja at lists.pointless.net > >>http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ronja mailing list > > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > From clock at twibright.com Wed Aug 23 10:53:35 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 11:53:35 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] T2 schematic circuit diagram In-Reply-To: <200608222051.54120.ladmanj@volny.cz> References: <200608222051.54120.ladmanj@volny.cz> Message-ID: <20060823095335.GB3000@kestrel.twibright.com> On Tue, Aug 22, 2006 at 08:51:54PM +0200, Jakub Ladman wrote: > Please let me know where is schematic circuit diagram of twister2. > I can't found it. I have found populating plan, drawings of T2 box with guide > how to do it, but not the only i want. You don't need the schematic for building so that's why it is only in the repairing section: http://ronja.twibright.com/twister2/servicing.php Otherwise it's also on the all schematics page: http://ronja.twibright.com/schematics/ CL< > > Jakub Ladman > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From clock at twibright.com Wed Aug 23 11:14:40 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 12:14:40 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] nefunguje twister, R70 shori po zapnuti In-Reply-To: <200608230639.8556@centrum.cz> References: <200608230639.8556@centrum.cz> Message-ID: <20060823101440.GA8211@kestrel.twibright.com> On Wed, Aug 23, 2006 at 06:39:53AM +0200, di.mi at centrum.cz wrote: > Ahoj, > postavil jsem Ronju Tetrapolis, vse na plosnaky (Rx+TX SMD by KJS), testoval jsem na 300m, vse fungovalo OK, RSSI 3.6V, 3.7V. > Pak jsem predelal kabelaz - misto 2 koaxu jsem pouzil velice kvalitne > stinenou 3linku a na vstup Rx pridal 3x1uF + tlumivku kvuli snizeni ruseni > TV. Chvili se zdalo, ze to jede ok, ale pak na obou twisterech doslova shorel > R70. Test loopbackem projde, ale pokud spojim 2 prostredni piny na CONN53 > (rx,tx) tak zas R70 shori - tzn. tedka uz neni ani nutne pripojit moduly, asi > je pytli nejakej IO, ale kterej? You must have 12V on CONN53-3 which normally is not be there. > > Jo a stavel jsem dalsi 2 twistery, pajel jsem je oba zaroven - U63 na jeden, > U63 na druhy; U64 na jeden, U64 na druhy, po dokonceni me jeden > fungoval, druhy ne - prosel loopback, ale ne test s vyzkratovanim > rx,tx - svitila cervena LED. Neni nekde seznam testpointu pro > Twister, abych vedel, co je spatne? I am writing into my todo list to make testpoints for Twister2. In the meantime check the correctness on your Twister and check for unsoldered or short circuited points too. CL< > > Predem moc diky za pomoc. > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From vojtech.cizinsky at centrum.cz Wed Aug 23 12:34:57 2006 From: vojtech.cizinsky at centrum.cz (vojtech.cizinsky at centrum.cz) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 13:34:57 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] RX na PCB od K.J.Skontorpa In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200608231334.4187@centrum.cz> Setkal se s tim u tehle verze na DPS jeste nekdo? Tuhle jsem delal spoj v Hradci K. a rusi jim to tam Primu. Delaj to nejspis prijimace - hnizda, protoze to je posledni vec, na kterou jsme nesahali. A to i kdyz zkouseli dat antenu 4 metry od ronji. >Jo je, vesele to rusi nejen III.TV pasmo. Navic to ma blbe navrzene sirky vodicu >a izolacni mezery, ze obcas fa. Kohout vyrobi neco se zkraty a blbe se to paji. From petr.cipis at tiscali.cz Wed Aug 23 12:55:41 2006 From: petr.cipis at tiscali.cz (Cipis) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 13:55:41 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] RX na PCB od K.J.Skontorpa References: <200608231334.4187@centrum.cz> Message-ID: <000c01c6c6ab$0ef3e510$5046a8c0@cipis.net> no ono to taky muze byt i spatnyma antenama na tu primu, obzvlaste maji-li polska sita Cipis ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 1:34 PM Subject: Re: [Ronja] RX na PCB od K.J.Skontorpa > Setkal se s tim u tehle verze na DPS jeste nekdo? Tuhle jsem delal spoj v > Hradci K. a rusi jim to tam Primu. Delaj to nejspis prijimace - hnizda, > protoze to je posledni vec, na kterou jsme nesahali. A to i kdyz zkouseli > dat antenu 4 metry od ronji. > > > > >>Jo je, vesele to rusi nejen III.TV pasmo. Navic to ma blbe navrzene sirky > vodicu >>a izolacni mezery, ze obcas fa. Kohout vyrobi neco se zkraty a blbe se to > paji. > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja na lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From clock at twibright.com Wed Aug 23 13:41:34 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 14:41:34 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] RX na PCB od K.J.Skontorpa In-Reply-To: <000c01c6c6ab$0ef3e510$5046a8c0@cipis.net> References: <200608231334.4187@centrum.cz> <000c01c6c6ab$0ef3e510$5046a8c0@cipis.net> Message-ID: <20060823124134.GA18828@kestrel.twibright.com> On Wed, Aug 23, 2006 at 01:55:41PM +0200, Cipis wrote: > no ono to taky muze byt i spatnyma antenama na tu primu, obzvlaste maji-li > polska sita It shouldn't be by antennas - Ronja shouldn't transmit any radio waves. I already fixed it in Twister2 (well there are always some waves, but in this case they are already very weak). The problem was while the shielding of Ronja was better than a typical consumer electronic item, the long cable run was working as a big antenna and when a TV antenna was close, it was catching the noise from Ronja. For comparison take a walkman and see how your PC fills the FM band with garbage. For stronger effect take off the lid of the PC case :) I am probably yet going to redesign the RX and TX in the same way.TX for sure because there are two bugs - can overload the LED with invalid input signal and can oscillate without signal when AC's are used instead of HC's. However these bugs don't affect the user in normal operation of Ronja. CL< > > Cipis > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 1:34 PM > Subject: Re: [Ronja] RX na PCB od K.J.Skontorpa > > > > Setkal se s tim u tehle verze na DPS jeste nekdo? Tuhle jsem delal spoj v > > Hradci K. a rusi jim to tam Primu. Delaj to nejspis prijimace - hnizda, > > protoze to je posledni vec, na kterou jsme nesahali. A to i kdyz zkouseli > > dat antenu 4 metry od ronji. > > > > > > > > > >>Jo je, vesele to rusi nejen III.TV pasmo. Navic to ma blbe navrzene sirky > > vodicu > >>a izolacni mezery, ze obcas fa. Kohout vyrobi neco se zkraty a blbe se to > > paji. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ronja mailing list > > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From anmic at fmg.sk Wed Aug 23 14:42:46 2006 From: anmic at fmg.sk (anMic) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 15:42:46 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] RX na PCB od K.J.Skontorpa In-Reply-To: <20060823124134.GA18828@kestrel.twibright.com> References: <200608231334.4187@centrum.cz> <000c01c6c6ab$0ef3e510$5046a8c0@cipis.net> <20060823124134.GA18828@kestrel.twibright.com> Message-ID: <44EC5B56.3070201@fmg.sk> Karel Kulhavy napsal(a): > On Wed, Aug 23, 2006 at 01:55:41PM +0200, Cipis wrote: > >>no ono to taky muze byt i spatnyma antenama na tu primu, obzvlaste maji-li >>polska sita > > > It shouldn't be by antennas - Ronja shouldn't transmit any radio waves. I > already fixed it in Twister2 (well there are always some waves, but in this > case they are already very weak). Souhlasim s Clockem, sousede si stezovali na ruseni; pritom pouzivaji yaggi. Jinak resili jsme to u puvodni verze Twisteru vedenim napajeni po strednim vodici stineneho koaxu (koax do TX). TX a RX byly podle navodu - hnizda. Netvrdim, ze je to udelane idealne (nemam moznost zmerit), ale ruseni bylo potlaceno a spoj funguje dle ocekavani (300 m, 90mm cocky). Jan Matyas > > The problem was while the shielding of Ronja was better than a typical consumer > electronic item, the long cable run was working as a big antenna and when a TV > antenna was close, it was catching the noise from Ronja. > > For comparison take a walkman and see how your PC fills the FM band with > garbage. For stronger effect take off the lid of the PC case :) > > I am probably yet going to redesign the RX and TX in the same way.TX for sure > because there are two bugs - can overload the LED with invalid input signal and > can oscillate without signal when AC's are used instead of HC's. However these > bugs don't affect the user in normal operation of Ronja. > > CL< > >>Cipis >> >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: >>To: >>Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 1:34 PM >>Subject: Re: [Ronja] RX na PCB od K.J.Skontorpa >> >> >> >>>Setkal se s tim u tehle verze na DPS jeste nekdo? Tuhle jsem delal spoj v >>>Hradci K. a rusi jim to tam Primu. Delaj to nejspis prijimace - hnizda, >>>protoze to je posledni vec, na kterou jsme nesahali. A to i kdyz zkouseli >>>dat antenu 4 metry od ronji. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>Jo je, vesele to rusi nejen III.TV pasmo. Navic to ma blbe navrzene sirky >>> >>>vodicu >>> >>>>a izolacni mezery, ze obcas fa. Kohout vyrobi neco se zkraty a blbe se to >>> >>>paji. >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Ronja mailing list >>>Ronja at lists.pointless.net >>>http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Ronja mailing list >>Ronja at lists.pointless.net >>http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > From clock at twibright.com Wed Aug 23 16:25:15 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 17:25:15 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] RX na PCB od K.J.Skontorpa In-Reply-To: <44EC5B56.3070201@fmg.sk> References: <200608231334.4187@centrum.cz> <000c01c6c6ab$0ef3e510$5046a8c0@cipis.net> <20060823124134.GA18828@kestrel.twibright.com> <44EC5B56.3070201@fmg.sk> Message-ID: <20060823152515.GA3059@kestrel.twibright.com> On Wed, Aug 23, 2006 at 03:42:46PM +0200, anMic wrote: > Karel Kulhavy napsal(a): > > On Wed, Aug 23, 2006 at 01:55:41PM +0200, Cipis wrote: > > > >>no ono to taky muze byt i spatnyma antenama na tu primu, obzvlaste maji-li > >>polska sita > > > > > > It shouldn't be by antennas - Ronja shouldn't transmit any radio waves. I > > already fixed it in Twister2 (well there are always some waves, but in this > > case they are already very weak). > > Souhlasim s Clockem, sousede si stezovali na ruseni; pritom > pouzivaji yaggi. > > Jinak resili jsme to u puvodni verze Twisteru vedenim > napajeni po strednim vodici stineneho koaxu (koax do TX). TX > a RX byly podle navodu - hnizda. > > Netvrdim, ze je to udelane idealne (nemam moznost zmerit), > ale ruseni bylo potlaceno a spoj funguje dle ocekavani (300 > m, 90mm cocky). Je ten spoj v galerii? Ze bych pripadne pridal? CL< > > Jan Matyas > > > > > The problem was while the shielding of Ronja was better than a typical consumer > > electronic item, the long cable run was working as a big antenna and when a TV > > antenna was close, it was catching the noise from Ronja. > > > > For comparison take a walkman and see how your PC fills the FM band with > > garbage. For stronger effect take off the lid of the PC case :) > > > > I am probably yet going to redesign the RX and TX in the same way.TX for sure > > because there are two bugs - can overload the LED with invalid input signal and > > can oscillate without signal when AC's are used instead of HC's. However these > > bugs don't affect the user in normal operation of Ronja. > > > > CL< > > > >>Cipis > >> > >> > >>----- Original Message ----- > >>From: > >>To: > >>Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 1:34 PM > >>Subject: Re: [Ronja] RX na PCB od K.J.Skontorpa > >> > >> > >> > >>>Setkal se s tim u tehle verze na DPS jeste nekdo? Tuhle jsem delal spoj v > >>>Hradci K. a rusi jim to tam Primu. Delaj to nejspis prijimace - hnizda, > >>>protoze to je posledni vec, na kterou jsme nesahali. A to i kdyz zkouseli > >>>dat antenu 4 metry od ronji. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>>Jo je, vesele to rusi nejen III.TV pasmo. Navic to ma blbe navrzene sirky > >>> > >>>vodicu > >>> > >>>>a izolacni mezery, ze obcas fa. Kohout vyrobi neco se zkraty a blbe se to > >>> > >>>paji. > >>> > >>> > >>>_______________________________________________ > >>>Ronja mailing list > >>>Ronja at lists.pointless.net > >>>http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > >> > >> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>Ronja mailing list > >>Ronja at lists.pointless.net > >>http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ronja mailing list > > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From anmic at fmg.sk Wed Aug 23 18:06:24 2006 From: anmic at fmg.sk (anMic) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 19:06:24 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] RX na PCB od K.J.Skontorpa In-Reply-To: <20060823152515.GA3059@kestrel.twibright.com> References: <200608231334.4187@centrum.cz> <000c01c6c6ab$0ef3e510$5046a8c0@cipis.net> <20060823124134.GA18828@kestrel.twibright.com> <44EC5B56.3070201@fmg.sk> <20060823152515.GA3059@kestrel.twibright.com> Message-ID: <44EC8B10.8020407@fmg.sk> >>Netvrdim, ze je to udelane idealne (nemam moznost zmerit), >>ale ruseni bylo potlaceno a spoj funguje dle ocekavani (300 >>m, 90mm cocky). > > > Je ten spoj v galerii? Ze bych pripadne pridal? > Spoj v galerii neni. Instalace bezi od 09/2005. Jak bude vic casu, dodam info i fotodokumentaci. V galerii jsou jenom snimky z naseho prvniho testovani, viz. ronja/electronics/anmic. JM > CL< > >>Jan Matyas >> >> >>>The problem was while the shielding of Ronja was better than a typical consumer >>>electronic item, the long cable run was working as a big antenna and when a TV >>>antenna was close, it was catching the noise from Ronja. >>> >>>For comparison take a walkman and see how your PC fills the FM band with >>>garbage. For stronger effect take off the lid of the PC case :) >>> >>>I am probably yet going to redesign the RX and TX in the same way.TX for sure >>>because there are two bugs - can overload the LED with invalid input signal and >>>can oscillate without signal when AC's are used instead of HC's. However these >>>bugs don't affect the user in normal operation of Ronja. >>> >>>CL< >>> >>>>Cipis >>>> >>>> >>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>From: >>>>To: >>>>Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 1:34 PM >>>>Subject: Re: [Ronja] RX na PCB od K.J.Skontorpa >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>Setkal se s tim u tehle verze na DPS jeste nekdo? Tuhle jsem delal spoj v >>>>>Hradci K. a rusi jim to tam Primu. Delaj to nejspis prijimace - hnizda, >>>>>protoze to je posledni vec, na kterou jsme nesahali. A to i kdyz zkouseli >>>>>dat antenu 4 metry od ronji. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>Jo je, vesele to rusi nejen III.TV pasmo. Navic to ma blbe navrzene sirky >>>>> >>>>>vodicu >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>a izolacni mezery, ze obcas fa. Kohout vyrobi neco se zkraty a blbe se to >>>>> >>>>>paji. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>Ronja mailing list >>>>>Ronja at lists.pointless.net >>>>>http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja >>>> >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>Ronja mailing list >>>>Ronja at lists.pointless.net >>>>http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Ronja mailing list >>>Ronja at lists.pointless.net >>>http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja >>> >>> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Ronja mailing list >>Ronja at lists.pointless.net >>http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > From seligr at sh.cvut.cz Thu Aug 24 08:50:57 2006 From: seligr at sh.cvut.cz (Petr Seliger) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 09:50:57 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] RX na PCB od K.J.Skontorpa In-Reply-To: <200608231334.4187@centrum.cz> References: <200608231334.4187@centrum.cz> Message-ID: <1156405857.44ed5a6139b63@desitka.sh.cvut.cz> Ano, hnizda to delaji casto taky. Problem byva pokud je chip fotodiody vystrcen z krabicky primace, potom to chyta vyrazne ruseni z okoli. Nicmene tohle je uz v navodu davno osetreno. Druhy problem je ze tranzistor MOSFET v prijimaci je v potencialne nestabilnim zapojeni a v zavislosti na prostorovem usporadani kmita na frekvencich radu desitek MHz. Slusne udelany kmita jen bez pritmnosti uzitecneho signalu a s urovni na vystupu radu desitek mV. Skontorpuv crap a nektera vrabci hnizda osciluji ze je vystup v oblasti limitace a harmoniky rusi sirokopasmove. Achilova pata je potom napajeni po koaxech. Dokud bude platit H= rot j tak privodni koaxy budou zarit ruseni do prostoru. ja jsem to resil timto http://wiki.twibright.com/index.php/RxPcbSeligr a nahrazenim koaxu UTPcky s tim ze RX a TX uz neni propojeno. Pozorovatelne ruseni pak nastava jen pri tesnem soubehu kabelu od ronji a antennich a neni-li krabice twisteru radne uzemnena. Sidefekt je ze na plosnaku je mozne nahradit odpor R104 180k odporem 150k cimz se velmi vyrazne zlepsi citlivost. Stejna operace na Skontorpove plosnaku a ve vetsine hnizd vede spolehlive ke zmene funkce z prijimace na rusicku. > Setkal se s tim u tehle verze na DPS jeste nekdo? Tuhle jsem delal spoj v > Hradci K. a rusi jim to tam Primu. Delaj to nejspis prijimace - hnizda, > protoze to je posledni vec, na kterou jsme nesahali. A to i kdyz zkouseli dat > antenu 4 metry od ronji. > > > > > >Jo je, vesele to rusi nejen III.TV pasmo. Navic to ma blbe navrzene sirky > vodicu > >a izolacni mezery, ze obcas fa. Kohout vyrobi neco se zkraty a blbe se to > paji. > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > From clock at twibright.com Thu Aug 24 12:49:59 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 13:49:59 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] RX na PCB od K.J.Skontorpa In-Reply-To: <1156405857.44ed5a6139b63@desitka.sh.cvut.cz> References: <200608231334.4187@centrum.cz> <1156405857.44ed5a6139b63@desitka.sh.cvut.cz> Message-ID: <20060824114959.GA18154@kestrel.twibright.com> On Thu, Aug 24, 2006 at 09:50:57AM +0200, Petr Seliger wrote: > Ano, hnizda to delaji casto taky. > Problem byva pokud je chip fotodiody vystrcen z krabicky primace, potom to > chyta vyrazne ruseni z okoli. Nicmene tohle je uz v navodu davno osetreno. > Druhy problem je ze tranzistor MOSFET v prijimaci je v potencialne nestabilnim > zapojeni a v zavislosti na prostorovem usporadani kmita na frekvencich radu > desitek MHz. Slusne udelany kmita jen bez pritmnosti uzitecneho signalu a s Pokud tranzistor ve vrabcim hnizde postavenem podle navodu kmita byt i jen bez pritomnosti signalu tak je to samozrejme buga v navrhu. Muzes k tomu dodat nejake upresnujici informace z kterych by se to dalo debugovat? Ja jsem na to totiz jeste nikdy nenarazil. Nepletes si kmity se sumem, ktery prijimac normalne produkuje (zesiluje termodynamicky sum tranzistoru)? Upozornuju ze funkcnost prijimace je garantovana jen se zavrenym vikem, tzn. jestli v tom mas nejake sondy a viko kvuli tomu nejde zavrit, tak to buga neni. CL< > urovni na vystupu radu desitek mV. Skontorpuv crap a nektera vrabci hnizda > osciluji ze je vystup v oblasti limitace a harmoniky rusi sirokopasmove. > Achilova pata je potom napajeni po koaxech. Dokud bude platit H= rot j tak > privodni koaxy budou zarit ruseni do prostoru. > > ja jsem to resil timto http://wiki.twibright.com/index.php/RxPcbSeligr a > nahrazenim koaxu UTPcky s tim ze RX a TX uz neni propojeno. Pozorovatelne > ruseni > pak nastava jen pri tesnem soubehu kabelu od ronji a antennich a neni-li > krabice twisteru radne uzemnena. Sidefekt je ze na plosnaku je mozne > nahradit odpor R104 180k odporem 150k cimz se velmi vyrazne zlepsi citlivost. > Stejna operace na Skontorpove plosnaku a ve vetsine hnizd vede spolehlive ke > zmene funkce z prijimace na rusicku. > > > Setkal se s tim u tehle verze na DPS jeste nekdo? Tuhle jsem delal spoj v > > Hradci K. a rusi jim to tam Primu. Delaj to nejspis prijimace - hnizda, > > protoze to je posledni vec, na kterou jsme nesahali. A to i kdyz zkouseli dat > > antenu 4 metry od ronji. > > > > > > > > > > >Jo je, vesele to rusi nejen III.TV pasmo. Navic to ma blbe navrzene sirky > > vodicu > > >a izolacni mezery, ze obcas fa. Kohout vyrobi neco se zkraty a blbe se to > > paji. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ronja mailing list > > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From petr.cipis at tiscali.cz Thu Aug 24 13:44:02 2006 From: petr.cipis at tiscali.cz (Cipis) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 14:44:02 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Prodej optickeho spoje References: <001701c6bfbe$e53d2940$ac5c2093@maximus> Message-ID: <002201c6c77a$fa0cacb0$5046a8c0@cipis.net> Mo?n? bych m?l n?vrh i pro ostatn?. V?l? se mi tu dva CPX WP54AG, provozovan? cca. p?l roku, byl by z?jem to vym?nit za kompletn?, naprosto funk?n? spoj na 1300 metr? s TP? Nejl?pe v?etn? instalace (pokud si z?jemce dokoup? ant?ny a kabely, jsem ochoten ten 5G spoj tak? nainstalovat). Cipis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ji?? Rozumek" To: Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 6:30 PM Subject: [Ronja] Prodej optickeho spoje Jelikoz jsme nahradili bezdratovou optiku optikou dratovou nabizim k odprodeji kompletni spoj. Cocky 120 mm, pajeno do vrabciho hnizda (ovsem velmi uhledne - foto zajemcum zaslu). Spoj bezel 3 roky na vzdalenosti cca 300 m bez problemu. Ma na jedne strane AUI a na druhe twistera. Mechanika je uz mirne prorezla - bude chtit min. natrit, lepe vsak opravit. Dam k tomu i topeni na 1 stranu spoje. Vazni zajemci piste na ice-kve.....102.11.73.81 Jiri Rozumek -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja na lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > From seligr at sh.cvut.cz Thu Aug 24 15:26:59 2006 From: seligr at sh.cvut.cz (Petr Seliger) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 16:26:59 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Prodej optickeho spoje In-Reply-To: <002201c6c77a$fa0cacb0$5046a8c0@cipis.net> References: <001701c6bfbe$e53d2940$ac5c2093@maximus> <002201c6c77a$fa0cacb0$5046a8c0@cipis.net> Message-ID: <1156429619.44edb733347c7@desitka.sh.cvut.cz> Jeden takovy spoj mam. Planovany to bylo jako dualhead na 2km ale nakonec z toho seslo. Cituji z emailu od Cipis : > Mo?n? bych m?l n?vrh i pro ostatn?. > V?l? se mi tu dva CPX WP54AG, provozovan? cca. p?l roku, byl by z?jem to > vym?nit za kompletn?, naprosto funk?n? spoj na 1300 metr? s TP? > Nejl?pe v?etn? instalace (pokud si z?jemce dokoup? ant?ny a kabely, jsem > ochoten ten 5G spoj tak? nainstalovat). > > Cipis > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ji?? Rozumek" > To: > Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 6:30 PM > Subject: [Ronja] Prodej optickeho spoje > > > > Jelikoz jsme nahradili bezdratovou optiku optikou dratovou nabizim k > odprodeji kompletni spoj. Cocky 120 mm, pajeno do vrabciho hnizda (ovsem > velmi uhledne - foto zajemcum zaslu). Spoj bezel 3 roky na vzdalenosti cca > 300 m bez problemu. Ma na jedne strane AUI a na druhe twistera. Mechanika je > > uz mirne prorezla - bude chtit min. natrit, lepe vsak opravit. Dam k tomu i > > topeni na 1 stranu spoje. > Vazni zajemci piste na ice-kve.....102.11.73.81 > > Jiri Rozumek > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ronja mailing list > > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > From clock at twibright.com Thu Aug 24 15:37:27 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 16:37:27 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Prodej optickeho spoje In-Reply-To: <1156429619.44edb733347c7@desitka.sh.cvut.cz> References: <001701c6bfbe$e53d2940$ac5c2093@maximus> <002201c6c77a$fa0cacb0$5046a8c0@cipis.net> <1156429619.44edb733347c7@desitka.sh.cvut.cz> Message-ID: <20060824143727.GA17270@kestrel.twibright.com> On Thu, Aug 24, 2006 at 04:26:59PM +0200, Petr Seliger wrote: > Jeden takovy spoj mam. Planovany to bylo jako dualhead na 2km ale nakonec z > toho seslo. Hehe has anyone got a running dualhead? I mean a real dualhead, not a modified TX with a thicker pipe and a bigger lens. CL< > > Cituji z emailu od Cipis : > > > Mo?n? bych m?l n?vrh i pro ostatn?. > > V?l? se mi tu dva CPX WP54AG, provozovan? cca. p?l roku, byl by z?jem to > > vym?nit za kompletn?, naprosto funk?n? spoj na 1300 metr? s TP? > > Nejl?pe v?etn? instalace (pokud si z?jemce dokoup? ant?ny a kabely, jsem > > ochoten ten 5G spoj tak? nainstalovat). > > > > Cipis > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Ji?? Rozumek" > > To: > > Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 6:30 PM > > Subject: [Ronja] Prodej optickeho spoje > > > > > > > > Jelikoz jsme nahradili bezdratovou optiku optikou dratovou nabizim k > > odprodeji kompletni spoj. Cocky 120 mm, pajeno do vrabciho hnizda (ovsem > > velmi uhledne - foto zajemcum zaslu). Spoj bezel 3 roky na vzdalenosti cca > > 300 m bez problemu. Ma na jedne strane AUI a na druhe twistera. Mechanika je > > > > uz mirne prorezla - bude chtit min. natrit, lepe vsak opravit. Dam k tomu i > > > > topeni na 1 stranu spoje. > > Vazni zajemci piste na ice-kve.....102.11.73.81 > > > > Jiri Rozumek > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Ronja mailing list > > > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ronja mailing list > > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From vojtech.cizinsky at centrum.cz Thu Aug 24 16:49:12 2006 From: vojtech.cizinsky at centrum.cz (vojtech.cizinsky at centrum.cz) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 17:49:12 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] RX na PCB od K.J.Skontorpa In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200608241749.31962@centrum.cz> Tak jsme prave zjistili ze to delaj vysilace na tistacich vlastni vyroby a ne prijimace jak jsme si puvodne mysleli. Po obaleni kouli alobalu ruseni jakz takz prestalo, ale stejne tam dame jiny. Jinak se rozmyslim jestli prijimace od Seligera nebo Skontorpa. Z Pragoboardu mi napsali, ze chtej fantastickych 190 korun za jednu desku, takze to vypada spis na Skontorpovu verzi a firmu Spoj. Jestli znate nekdo misto kde se daji poridit plosnaky jeste levneji, tak to sem prosim napiste. Vojta ?. From seligr at sh.cvut.cz Thu Aug 24 19:14:40 2006 From: seligr at sh.cvut.cz (Petr Seliger) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 20:14:40 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] RX na PCB od K.J.Skontorpa In-Reply-To: <200608241749.31962@centrum.cz> References: <200608241749.31962@centrum.cz> Message-ID: <1156443280.44edec90494f9@desitka.sh.cvut.cz> Na moji verzi je potreba v pragoboardu rict ze chtete RXverze1.0 od p. Seligera s tim ze se pouziji filmy s panelizaci na 6ks co jsem nechal delat vloni, ale mate hned 6ks najednou. Pak jeden kousek vychazi na cca 70-120Kc podle mnozstvi. Jsou s prokovy, nep. maskou a HAL, takze cena velmi rozumna. Pokud by se seslo objednavek aspon na 50ks tak necham udelat. Ja uz mam RXy jen osazene ale par neosazenych kousku muzu zajistit ze zasob jednoho bastlire jen to chvili trva. > Tak jsme prave zjistili ze to delaj vysilace na tistacich vlastni vyroby a ne > prijimace jak jsme si puvodne mysleli. Po obaleni kouli alobalu ruseni jakz > takz prestalo, ale stejne tam dame jiny. > Jinak se rozmyslim jestli prijimace od Seligera nebo Skontorpa. Z Pragoboardu > mi napsali, ze chtej fantastickych 190 korun za jednu desku, takze to vypada Akorat kvalitativni rozdil je jako mezi trabantem a mercedesem. > spis na Skontorpovu verzi a firmu Spoj. Jestli znate nekdo misto kde se daji > poridit plosnaky jeste levneji, tak to sem prosim napiste. > > Vojta ?. > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > From seligr at sh.cvut.cz Thu Aug 24 19:36:48 2006 From: seligr at sh.cvut.cz (Petr Seliger) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 20:36:48 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] RX na PCB od K.J.Skontorpa In-Reply-To: <20060824114959.GA18154@kestrel.twibright.com> References: <200608231334.4187@centrum.cz> <1156405857.44ed5a6139b63@desitka.sh.cvut.cz> <20060824114959.GA18154@kestrel.twibright.com> Message-ID: <1156444608.44edf1c0aff92@desitka.sh.cvut.cz> Cituji z emailu od Karel Kulhavy : > On Thu, Aug 24, 2006 at 09:50:57AM +0200, Petr Seliger wrote: > > Ano, hnizda to delaji casto taky. > > Problem byva pokud je chip fotodiody vystrcen z krabicky primace, potom to > > > chyta vyrazne ruseni z okoli. Nicmene tohle je uz v navodu davno > osetreno. > > Druhy problem je ze tranzistor MOSFET v prijimaci je v potencialne > nestabilnim > > zapojeni a v zavislosti na prostorovem usporadani kmita na frekvencich > radu > > desitek MHz. Slusne udelany kmita jen bez pritmnosti uzitecneho signalu a > s > > Pokud tranzistor ve vrabcim hnizde postavenem podle navodu kmita byt i jen > bez > pritomnosti signalu tak je to samozrejme buga v navrhu. Muzes k tomu dodat > nejake upresnujici informace z kterych by se to dalo debugovat? Ja jsem na > to > totiz jeste nikdy nenarazil. > Je to uz asi rok stara zalezitost kdy jsem opravoval vetsi mnozstvi nechodicich konstrukci. Vetsinu problemu vyresilo pridani C154, jenze kdo cte aktualni navod. Stavajici problem je v prilis dlouhych privodech soucastek kolem mosfetu, s tim ze stavajici sablona s umistenim soucastek v prepazkach neni zrovna nejstasnejsi a vede naprostou vetsinu lidi k "praseni". Nejkritictejsi jsou prave soucastky povesene na G1 a katode fotodiody ktere byvaji vetsinou moc dlouhe. ostatne ilustracni fotky v navodu nejsou zrovna nejstasnejsi. Ja jsem to vyresil konstrukci vlastniho plosnaku a o vrabci hnizda jsem se dal nezajimal. > Nepletes si kmity se sumem, ktery prijimac normalne produkuje (zesiluje > termodynamicky sum tranzistoru)? Spis sum zvany 1/f MOSFETU, ten prevazuje naprosto nad vsim ostatnim. V inkriminovanych prijimacih byly na spektraku videt spicky. > Upozornuju ze funkcnost prijimace je garantovana jen se zavrenym vikem, > tzn. > jestli v tom mas nejake sondy a viko kvuli tomu nejde zavrit, tak to buga > neni. Na to jsem vybaveny. Tim to nebylo. Ostatne u sveho plosnaku mam vyzkouseno ze funguje velice rozumne i bez stineni. > CL< > > > urovni na vystupu radu desitek mV. Skontorpuv crap a nektera vrabci > hnizda > > osciluji ze je vystup v oblasti limitace a harmoniky rusi sirokopasmove. > > Achilova pata je potom napajeni po koaxech. Dokud bude platit H= rot j > tak > > privodni koaxy budou zarit ruseni do prostoru. > > > > ja jsem to resil timto http://wiki.twibright.com/index.php/RxPcbSeligr a > > nahrazenim koaxu UTPcky s tim ze RX a TX uz neni propojeno. Pozorovatelne > > ruseni > > pak nastava jen pri tesnem soubehu kabelu od ronji a antennich a neni-li > > krabice twisteru radne uzemnena. Sidefekt je ze na plosnaku je mozne > > nahradit odpor R104 180k odporem 150k cimz se velmi vyrazne zlepsi > citlivost. > > Stejna operace na Skontorpove plosnaku a ve vetsine hnizd vede spolehlive > ke > > zmene funkce z prijimace na rusicku. > > > > > Setkal se s tim u tehle verze na DPS jeste nekdo? Tuhle jsem delal spoj > v > > > Hradci K. a rusi jim to tam Primu. Delaj to nejspis prijimace - hnizda, > > > protoze to je posledni vec, na kterou jsme nesahali. A to i kdyz zkouseli > dat > > > antenu 4 metry od ronji. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Jo je, vesele to rusi nejen III.TV pasmo. Navic to ma blbe navrzene > sirky > > > vodicu > > > >a izolacni mezery, ze obcas fa. Kohout vyrobi neco se zkraty a blbe se > to > > > paji. > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Ronja mailing list > > > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ronja mailing list > > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > From clock at twibright.com Fri Aug 25 16:52:58 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 17:52:58 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] RX na PCB od K.J.Skontorpa In-Reply-To: <1156444608.44edf1c0aff92@desitka.sh.cvut.cz> References: <200608231334.4187@centrum.cz> <1156405857.44ed5a6139b63@desitka.sh.cvut.cz> <20060824114959.GA18154@kestrel.twibright.com> <1156444608.44edf1c0aff92@desitka.sh.cvut.cz> Message-ID: <20060825155258.GA19530@kestrel.twibright.com> On Thu, Aug 24, 2006 at 08:36:48PM +0200, Petr Seliger wrote: > Cituji z emailu od Karel Kulhavy : > > > On Thu, Aug 24, 2006 at 09:50:57AM +0200, Petr Seliger wrote: > > > Ano, hnizda to delaji casto taky. > > > Problem byva pokud je chip fotodiody vystrcen z krabicky primace, potom to > > > > > chyta vyrazne ruseni z okoli. Nicmene tohle je uz v navodu davno > > osetreno. > > > Druhy problem je ze tranzistor MOSFET v prijimaci je v potencialne > > nestabilnim > > > zapojeni a v zavislosti na prostorovem usporadani kmita na frekvencich > > radu > > > desitek MHz. Slusne udelany kmita jen bez pritmnosti uzitecneho signalu a > > s > > > > Pokud tranzistor ve vrabcim hnizde postavenem podle navodu kmita byt i jen > > bez > > pritomnosti signalu tak je to samozrejme buga v navrhu. Muzes k tomu dodat > > nejake upresnujici informace z kterych by se to dalo debugovat? Ja jsem na > > to > > totiz jeste nikdy nenarazil. > > > Je to uz asi rok stara zalezitost kdy jsem opravoval vetsi mnozstvi nechodicich > konstrukci. Vetsinu problemu vyresilo pridani C154, jenze kdo cte aktualni > navod. Stavajici problem je v prilis dlouhych privodech soucastek kolem mosfetu, > s tim ze stavajici sablona s umistenim soucastek v prepazkach neni zrovna > nejstasnejsi a vede naprostou vetsinu lidi k "praseni". Nejkritictejsi jsou > prave soucastky povesene na G1 a katode fotodiody ktere byvaji vetsinou moc > dlouhe. ostatne ilustracni fotky v navodu nejsou zrovna nejstasnejsi. Jakym mechanismem by to melo vadit? Dlouha soucastka ma indukcnost a naindukuje se na ni zpetne ruseni a rozkmita se to? CL< > Ja jsem to vyresil konstrukci vlastniho plosnaku a o vrabci hnizda jsem se dal > nezajimal. > > > Nepletes si kmity se sumem, ktery prijimac normalne produkuje (zesiluje > > termodynamicky sum tranzistoru)? > > Spis sum zvany 1/f MOSFETU, ten prevazuje naprosto nad vsim ostatnim. > V inkriminovanych prijimacih byly na spektraku videt spicky. > > > Upozornuju ze funkcnost prijimace je garantovana jen se zavrenym vikem, > > tzn. > > jestli v tom mas nejake sondy a viko kvuli tomu nejde zavrit, tak to buga > > neni. > > Na to jsem vybaveny. Tim to nebylo. Ostatne u sveho plosnaku mam vyzkouseno ze > funguje velice rozumne i bez stineni. > > > > CL< > > > > > urovni na vystupu radu desitek mV. Skontorpuv crap a nektera vrabci > > hnizda > > > osciluji ze je vystup v oblasti limitace a harmoniky rusi sirokopasmove. > > > Achilova pata je potom napajeni po koaxech. Dokud bude platit H= rot j > > tak > > > privodni koaxy budou zarit ruseni do prostoru. > > > > > > ja jsem to resil timto http://wiki.twibright.com/index.php/RxPcbSeligr a > > > nahrazenim koaxu UTPcky s tim ze RX a TX uz neni propojeno. Pozorovatelne > > > ruseni > > > pak nastava jen pri tesnem soubehu kabelu od ronji a antennich a neni-li > > > krabice twisteru radne uzemnena. Sidefekt je ze na plosnaku je mozne > > > nahradit odpor R104 180k odporem 150k cimz se velmi vyrazne zlepsi > > citlivost. > > > Stejna operace na Skontorpove plosnaku a ve vetsine hnizd vede spolehlive > > ke > > > zmene funkce z prijimace na rusicku. > > > > > > > Setkal se s tim u tehle verze na DPS jeste nekdo? Tuhle jsem delal spoj > > v > > > > Hradci K. a rusi jim to tam Primu. Delaj to nejspis prijimace - hnizda, > > > > protoze to je posledni vec, na kterou jsme nesahali. A to i kdyz zkouseli > > dat > > > > antenu 4 metry od ronji. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Jo je, vesele to rusi nejen III.TV pasmo. Navic to ma blbe navrzene > > sirky > > > > vodicu > > > > >a izolacni mezery, ze obcas fa. Kohout vyrobi neco se zkraty a blbe se > > to > > > > paji. > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Ronja mailing list > > > > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > > > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Ronja mailing list > > > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ronja mailing list > > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From clock at twibright.com Fri Aug 25 18:08:46 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 19:08:46 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] RX na PCB od K.J.Skontorpa In-Reply-To: <1156444608.44edf1c0aff92@desitka.sh.cvut.cz> References: <200608231334.4187@centrum.cz> <1156405857.44ed5a6139b63@desitka.sh.cvut.cz> <20060824114959.GA18154@kestrel.twibright.com> <1156444608.44edf1c0aff92@desitka.sh.cvut.cz> Message-ID: <20060825170846.GA22786@kestrel.twibright.com> On Thu, Aug 24, 2006 at 08:36:48PM +0200, Petr Seliger wrote: > Cituji z emailu od Karel Kulhavy : > > > On Thu, Aug 24, 2006 at 09:50:57AM +0200, Petr Seliger wrote: > > > Ano, hnizda to delaji casto taky. > > > Problem byva pokud je chip fotodiody vystrcen z krabicky primace, potom to > > > > > chyta vyrazne ruseni z okoli. Nicmene tohle je uz v navodu davno > > osetreno. > > > Druhy problem je ze tranzistor MOSFET v prijimaci je v potencialne > > nestabilnim > > > zapojeni a v zavislosti na prostorovem usporadani kmita na frekvencich > > radu > > > desitek MHz. Slusne udelany kmita jen bez pritmnosti uzitecneho signalu a > > s > > > > Pokud tranzistor ve vrabcim hnizde postavenem podle navodu kmita byt i jen > > bez > > pritomnosti signalu tak je to samozrejme buga v navrhu. Muzes k tomu dodat > > nejake upresnujici informace z kterych by se to dalo debugovat? Ja jsem na > > to > > totiz jeste nikdy nenarazil. > > > Je to uz asi rok stara zalezitost kdy jsem opravoval vetsi mnozstvi nechodicich > konstrukci. Vetsinu problemu vyresilo pridani C154, jenze kdo cte aktualni > navod. Stavajici problem je v prilis dlouhych privodech soucastek kolem mosfetu, > s tim ze stavajici sablona s umistenim soucastek v prepazkach neni zrovna > nejstasnejsi a vede naprostou vetsinu lidi k "praseni". Nejkritictejsi jsou Napada te nejaky lepsi umisteni soucastek kolem Q101? Posunout Q101 tak aby byl bliz fotodiode? CL< > prave soucastky povesene na G1 a katode fotodiody ktere byvaji vetsinou moc > dlouhe. ostatne ilustracni fotky v navodu nejsou zrovna nejstasnejsi. > Ja jsem to vyresil konstrukci vlastniho plosnaku a o vrabci hnizda jsem se dal > nezajimal. > > > Nepletes si kmity se sumem, ktery prijimac normalne produkuje (zesiluje > > termodynamicky sum tranzistoru)? > > Spis sum zvany 1/f MOSFETU, ten prevazuje naprosto nad vsim ostatnim. > V inkriminovanych prijimacih byly na spektraku videt spicky. > > > Upozornuju ze funkcnost prijimace je garantovana jen se zavrenym vikem, > > tzn. > > jestli v tom mas nejake sondy a viko kvuli tomu nejde zavrit, tak to buga > > neni. > > Na to jsem vybaveny. Tim to nebylo. Ostatne u sveho plosnaku mam vyzkouseno ze > funguje velice rozumne i bez stineni. > > > > CL< > > > > > urovni na vystupu radu desitek mV. Skontorpuv crap a nektera vrabci > > hnizda > > > osciluji ze je vystup v oblasti limitace a harmoniky rusi sirokopasmove. > > > Achilova pata je potom napajeni po koaxech. Dokud bude platit H= rot j > > tak > > > privodni koaxy budou zarit ruseni do prostoru. > > > > > > ja jsem to resil timto http://wiki.twibright.com/index.php/RxPcbSeligr a > > > nahrazenim koaxu UTPcky s tim ze RX a TX uz neni propojeno. Pozorovatelne > > > ruseni > > > pak nastava jen pri tesnem soubehu kabelu od ronji a antennich a neni-li > > > krabice twisteru radne uzemnena. Sidefekt je ze na plosnaku je mozne > > > nahradit odpor R104 180k odporem 150k cimz se velmi vyrazne zlepsi > > citlivost. > > > Stejna operace na Skontorpove plosnaku a ve vetsine hnizd vede spolehlive > > ke > > > zmene funkce z prijimace na rusicku. > > > > > > > Setkal se s tim u tehle verze na DPS jeste nekdo? Tuhle jsem delal spoj > > v > > > > Hradci K. a rusi jim to tam Primu. Delaj to nejspis prijimace - hnizda, > > > > protoze to je posledni vec, na kterou jsme nesahali. A to i kdyz zkouseli > > dat > > > > antenu 4 metry od ronji. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Jo je, vesele to rusi nejen III.TV pasmo. Navic to ma blbe navrzene > > sirky > > > > vodicu > > > > >a izolacni mezery, ze obcas fa. Kohout vyrobi neco se zkraty a blbe se > > to > > > > paji. > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Ronja mailing list > > > > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > > > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Ronja mailing list > > > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ronja mailing list > > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From seligr at sh.cvut.cz Fri Aug 25 19:37:27 2006 From: seligr at sh.cvut.cz (Petr Seliger) Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 20:37:27 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] RX na PCB od K.J.Skontorpa In-Reply-To: <20060825170846.GA22786@kestrel.twibright.com> References: <200608231334.4187@centrum.cz> <1156405857.44ed5a6139b63@desitka.sh.cvut.cz> <20060824114959.GA18154@kestrel.twibright.com> <1156444608.44edf1c0aff92@desitka.sh.cvut.cz> <20060825170846.GA22786@kestrel.twibright.com> Message-ID: <1156531047.44ef436787c8f@desitka.sh.cvut.cz> Cituji z emailu od Karel Kulhavy : > On Thu, Aug 24, 2006 at 08:36:48PM +0200, Petr Seliger wrote: > > Cituji z emailu od Karel Kulhavy : > > > > > On Thu, Aug 24, 2006 at 09:50:57AM +0200, Petr Seliger wrote: > > > > Ano, hnizda to delaji casto taky. > > > > Problem byva pokud je chip fotodiody vystrcen z krabicky primace, potom > to > > > > > > > chyta vyrazne ruseni z okoli. Nicmene tohle je uz v navodu davno > > > osetreno. > > > > Druhy problem je ze tranzistor MOSFET v prijimaci je v potencialne > > > nestabilnim > > > > zapojeni a v zavislosti na prostorovem usporadani kmita na > frekvencich > > > radu > > > > desitek MHz. Slusne udelany kmita jen bez pritmnosti uzitecneho signalu > a > > > s > > > > > > Pokud tranzistor ve vrabcim hnizde postavenem podle navodu kmita byt i > jen > > > bez > > > pritomnosti signalu tak je to samozrejme buga v navrhu. Muzes k tomu > dodat > > > nejake upresnujici informace z kterych by se to dalo debugovat? Ja jsem > na > > > to > > > totiz jeste nikdy nenarazil. > > > > > Je to uz asi rok stara zalezitost kdy jsem opravoval vetsi mnozstvi > nechodicich > > konstrukci. Vetsinu problemu vyresilo pridani C154, jenze kdo cte > aktualni > > navod. Stavajici problem je v prilis dlouhych privodech soucastek kolem > mosfetu, > > s tim ze stavajici sablona s umistenim soucastek v prepazkach neni zrovna > > nejstasnejsi a vede naprostou vetsinu lidi k "praseni". Nejkritictejsi > jsou > > Napada te nejaky lepsi umisteni soucastek kolem Q101? Posunout Q101 tak aby > byl > bliz fotodiode? > Napada, si dam za domaci ukol udelat vzorovy kus. Mozna by ale bylo lepsi udelat rovnou oficialni plosnak. staci vicemene okopirovat ten muj. > CL< > > prave soucastky povesene na G1 a katode fotodiody ktere byvaji vetsinou > moc > > dlouhe. ostatne ilustracni fotky v navodu nejsou zrovna nejstasnejsi. > > Ja jsem to vyresil konstrukci vlastniho plosnaku a o vrabci hnizda jsem se > dal > > nezajimal. > > > > > Nepletes si kmity se sumem, ktery prijimac normalne produkuje (zesiluje > > > termodynamicky sum tranzistoru)? > > > > Spis sum zvany 1/f MOSFETU, ten prevazuje naprosto nad vsim ostatnim. > > V inkriminovanych prijimacih byly na spektraku videt spicky. > > > > > Upozornuju ze funkcnost prijimace je garantovana jen se zavrenym vikem, > > > tzn. > > > jestli v tom mas nejake sondy a viko kvuli tomu nejde zavrit, tak to > buga > > > neni. > > > > Na to jsem vybaveny. Tim to nebylo. Ostatne u sveho plosnaku mam vyzkouseno > ze > > funguje velice rozumne i bez stineni. > > > > > > > CL< > > > > > > > urovni na vystupu radu desitek mV. Skontorpuv crap a nektera vrabci > > > hnizda > > > > osciluji ze je vystup v oblasti limitace a harmoniky rusi > sirokopasmove. > > > > Achilova pata je potom napajeni po koaxech. Dokud bude platit H= rot > j > > > tak > > > > privodni koaxy budou zarit ruseni do prostoru. > > > > > > > > ja jsem to resil timto http://wiki.twibright.com/index.php/RxPcbSeligr > a > > > > nahrazenim koaxu UTPcky s tim ze RX a TX uz neni propojeno. > Pozorovatelne > > > > ruseni > > > > pak nastava jen pri tesnem soubehu kabelu od ronji a antennich a > neni-li > > > > krabice twisteru radne uzemnena. Sidefekt je ze na plosnaku je mozne > > > > nahradit odpor R104 180k odporem 150k cimz se velmi vyrazne zlepsi > > > citlivost. > > > > Stejna operace na Skontorpove plosnaku a ve vetsine hnizd vede > spolehlive > > > ke > > > > zmene funkce z prijimace na rusicku. > > > > > > > > > Setkal se s tim u tehle verze na DPS jeste nekdo? Tuhle jsem delal > spoj > > > v > > > > > Hradci K. a rusi jim to tam Primu. Delaj to nejspis prijimace - > hnizda, > > > > > protoze to je posledni vec, na kterou jsme nesahali. A to i kdyz > zkouseli > > > dat > > > > > antenu 4 metry od ronji. > > > > > > > > > > From cd930 at centrum.cz Mon Aug 28 09:57:35 2006 From: cd930 at centrum.cz (-=RYS=-) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 10:57:35 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Dalsi linka Message-ID: <200608281057.4802@centrum.cz> Ahoj Karle, tak jsme postavili dalsi linku v Zatci. Jestli muzes, tak to pridej do fotogalerie. Ronja Tetrapolis: - TX/RX 130mm sklenena cocka - LED F4000 - vyhrejvaci odpory uvnitr tubusu - PoE a RSSI a LAN trafo (vse na zvlastnim?tiskaku)?pridano k Twisteru (tistak)?v plast krabici - konce trubek a plast krabice?maji konektory - nestandartni mechanika - vzdusna konstrukce RX a TX - vzdalenost 180m, ?RSSI 4.47V / 4.67V - slouzi to ISP:? http://www.ohremedia.cz - fotky na:? http://ok1mjo.zajsoft.net/all/photo/zatec/zatec_fso/mala_posta-Ostrov Martin?? -=RYS=- ------------- dal?? ??st --------------- HTML p??loha byla odstran?na... URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20060828/8df66db7/attachment.html From clock at twibright.com Sun Aug 27 12:09:34 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 13:09:34 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Smiling faces Message-ID: <20060827110934.GA22656@kestrel.twibright.com> I added some smiling faces to a particular article on the Ronja page: http://ronja.twibright.com/hobby.php If someone doesn't want to be there please tell me I'll remove him. CL< From kucera_jiri at volny.cz Mon Aug 28 14:28:17 2006 From: kucera_jiri at volny.cz (=?windows-1250?Q?Jiri_Ku=E8era?=) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 15:28:17 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Dalsi linka In-Reply-To: <200608281057.4802@centrum.cz> Message-ID: Tak jsem si otev?el posledn? fotogalerii a ?asnul jsem. Na posledn? fotografii nat?ra? nat?r? s cigaretou v ?stech. No dobr? tady jde o jeho kejh?k. Ale co je hor??, T?hnete datov? kabel t?sn? u hromosvodu!!!! P?ijde jedna bou?ka a m?te blesk u v?ech klient? doma a v lep??m p??pad? jen vyho??. Doporu?uji v?m si nechat ud?lat elektrorevizi. Ostatn? to pat?? k va?? z?konn? povinnosti!!!! Ku?era -----Original Message----- From: ronja-bounces+kucera_jiri=volny.cz na lists.pointless.net [mailto:ronja-bounces+kucera_jiri=volny.cz na lists.pointless.net]On Behalf Of -=RYS=- Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 10:58 AM To: Twibright Ronja Subject: [Ronja] Dalsi linka Ahoj Karle, tak jsme postavili dalsi linku v Zatci. Jestli muzes, tak to pridej do fotogalerie. Ronja Tetrapolis: - TX/RX 130mm sklenena cocka - LED F4000 - vyhrejvaci odpory uvnitr tubusu - PoE a RSSI a LAN trafo (vse na zvlastnim tiskaku) pridano k Twisteru (tistak) v plast krabici - konce trubek a plast krabice maji konektory - nestandartni mechanika - vzdusna konstrukce RX a TX - vzdalenost 180m, RSSI 4.47V / 4.67V - slouzi to ISP: http://www.ohremedia.cz - fotky na: http://ok1mjo.zajsoft.net/all/photo/zatec/zatec_fso/mala_posta-Ostrov Martin -=RYS=- ------------- dal?? ??st --------------- HTML p??loha byla odstran?na... URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20060828/569a339a/attachment.html From petr.cipis at tiscali.cz Mon Aug 28 14:49:20 2006 From: petr.cipis at tiscali.cz (Cipis) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 15:49:20 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Dalsi linka References: Message-ID: <002101c6caa8$c3247260$5046a8c0@cipis.net> Mno, ten chlap by pot?eboval do dr?ky, to je fakt reprezentace jak bl?zen. S t?m datov?m kabelem to nen? a? tak hork? - na t? posledn? fotce hromosvod jen k????, ostatn? jsem moc ne?tudoval. Sp?? to vypad? d?sn? hnusn?, na providera, kter? to d?l? profesion?ln?. I j? bych dal ten kousek do li?ty a od zdi k t?m cajk?m bu? krk nebo takov? ten omot?vac? nesmysl. Takhle to tam p?kn? h?zd?, v?etn? t?ch neodcvakl?ch stahovac?ch p?sk?. Elektrorevizi nepot?ebuj?, nezasahuj? do zapojen? NN a ostatn?ch. Cipis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jiri Ku?era" To: "Twibright Ronja" Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 3:28 PM Subject: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka Tak jsem si otev?el posledn? fotogalerii a ?asnul jsem. Na posledn? fotografii nat?ra? nat?r? s cigaretou v ?stech. No dobr? tady jde o jeho kejh?k. Ale co je hor??, T?hnete datov? kabel t?sn? u hromosvodu!!!! P?ijde jedna bou?ka a m?te blesk u v?ech klient? doma a v lep??m p??pad? jen vyho??. Doporu?uji v?m si nechat ud?lat elektrorevizi. Ostatn? to pat?? k va?? z?konn? povinnosti!!!! Ku?era -----Original Message----- From: ronja-bounces+kucera_jiri=volny.cz na lists.pointless.net [mailto:ronja-bounces+kucera_jiri=volny.cz na lists.pointless.net]On Behalf Of -=RYS=- Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 10:58 AM To: Twibright Ronja Subject: [Ronja] Dalsi linka Ahoj Karle, tak jsme postavili dalsi linku v Zatci. Jestli muzes, tak to pridej do fotogalerie. Ronja Tetrapolis: - TX/RX 130mm sklenena cocka - LED F4000 - vyhrejvaci odpory uvnitr tubusu - PoE a RSSI a LAN trafo (vse na zvlastnim tiskaku) pridano k Twisteru (tistak) v plast krabici - konce trubek a plast krabice maji konektory - nestandartni mechanika - vzdusna konstrukce RX a TX - vzdalenost 180m, RSSI 4.47V / 4.67V - slouzi to ISP: http://www.ohremedia.cz - fotky na: http://ok1mjo.zajsoft.net/all/photo/zatec/zatec_fso/mala_posta-Ostrov Martin -=RYS=- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja na lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > From kucera_jiri at volny.cz Mon Aug 28 15:08:44 2006 From: kucera_jiri at volny.cz (=?windows-1250?Q?Jiri_Ku=E8era?=) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 16:08:44 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Dalsi linka In-Reply-To: <002101c6caa8$c3247260$5046a8c0@cipis.net> Message-ID: Nechci ti zde d?lat ?kolen? o hromosvodech, ale kdy? ten sn?mek uk??e? jin?mu elektrik??i ( j? jsem Ostrav?k ) tak ti ur?it? porad? jak to ud?lat spr?vn?. L?b? se mi ?e to chce? spravit. Mohl by jsi m?t probl?my s majitelem domu!!! -----Original Message----- From: ronja-bounces+kucera_jiri=volny.cz na lists.pointless.net [mailto:ronja-bounces+kucera_jiri=volny.cz na lists.pointless.net]On Behalf Of Cipis Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 3:49 PM To: Twibright Ronja Subject: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka Mno, ten chlap by pot?eboval do dr?ky, to je fakt reprezentace jak bl?zen. S t?m datov?m kabelem to nen? a? tak hork? - na t? posledn? fotce hromosvod jen k????, ostatn? jsem moc ne?tudoval. Sp?? to vypad? d?sn? hnusn?, na providera, kter? to d?l? profesion?ln?. I j? bych dal ten kousek do li?ty a od zdi k t?m cajk?m bu? krk nebo takov? ten omot?vac? nesmysl. Takhle to tam p?kn? h?zd?, v?etn? t?ch neodcvakl?ch stahovac?ch p?sk?. Elektrorevizi nepot?ebuj?, nezasahuj? do zapojen? NN a ostatn?ch. Cipis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jiri Ku?era" To: "Twibright Ronja" Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 3:28 PM Subject: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka Tak jsem si otev?el posledn? fotogalerii a ?asnul jsem. Na posledn? fotografii nat?ra? nat?r? s cigaretou v ?stech. No dobr? tady jde o jeho kejh?k. Ale co je hor??, T?hnete datov? kabel t?sn? u hromosvodu!!!! P?ijde jedna bou?ka a m?te blesk u v?ech klient? doma a v lep??m p??pad? jen vyho??. Doporu?uji v?m si nechat ud?lat elektrorevizi. Ostatn? to pat?? k va?? z?konn? povinnosti!!!! Ku?era -----Original Message----- From: ronja-bounces+kucera_jiri=volny.cz na lists.pointless.net [mailto:ronja-bounces+kucera_jiri=volny.cz na lists.pointless.net]On Behalf Of -=RYS=- Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 10:58 AM To: Twibright Ronja Subject: [Ronja] Dalsi linka Ahoj Karle, tak jsme postavili dalsi linku v Zatci. Jestli muzes, tak to pridej do fotogalerie. Ronja Tetrapolis: - TX/RX 130mm sklenena cocka - LED F4000 - vyhrejvaci odpory uvnitr tubusu - PoE a RSSI a LAN trafo (vse na zvlastnim tiskaku) pridano k Twisteru (tistak) v plast krabici - konce trubek a plast krabice maji konektory - nestandartni mechanika - vzdusna konstrukce RX a TX - vzdalenost 180m, RSSI 4.47V / 4.67V - slouzi to ISP: http://www.ohremedia.cz - fotky na: http://ok1mjo.zajsoft.net/all/photo/zatec/zatec_fso/mala_posta-Ostrov Martin -=RYS=- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja na lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > _______________________________________________ Ronja mailing list Ronja na lists.pointless.net http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja "w?fz?8=?^?m?M?6?:j??V????j{?*?)????8=?????z?g From jdb at lartmaker.nl Mon Aug 28 15:35:57 2006 From: jdb at lartmaker.nl (J.D. Bakker) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 16:35:57 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] BER plot ? Message-ID: Hi Clock, hi all, On page 21 of http://ronja.twibright.com/msmt/example.pdf linked from http://ronja.twibright.com/testing/ber_tetrapolis_bertest.php a SNR vs BER plot is shown. What is the basis (formula, reference) behind this plot ? It appears overly optimistic. For example, in the plot a BER of 1e-6 is achieved with a SNR of less than 7dB, whereas according to my textbook [1] at least 10.5dB is required. Others, like http://www.sss-mag.com/cber.html , seem to agree. What gives ? JDB. [1] Leon W. Couch II, "Digital and analog communications systems", fourth edition -- LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files. http://www.lartmaker.nl/ From clock at twibright.com Mon Aug 28 15:58:19 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 16:58:19 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Dalsi linka In-Reply-To: References: <200608281057.4802@centrum.cz> Message-ID: <20060828145819.GA18355@kestrel.twibright.com> On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 03:28:17PM +0200, Jiri Ku?era wrote: > Tak jsem si otev?el posledn? fotogalerii a ?asnul jsem. Na posledn? > fotografii nat?ra? nat?r? s cigaretou v ?stech. No dobr? tady jde o jeho > kejh?k. Ale co je hor??, T?hnete datov? kabel t?sn? u hromosvodu!!!! P?ijde Maybe it's water-soluble paint then there is no risk of fire. CL< > jedna bou?ka a m?te blesk u v?ech klient? doma a v lep??m p??pad? jen > vyho??. Doporu?uji v?m si nechat ud?lat elektrorevizi. Ostatn? to pat?? k > va?? z?konn? povinnosti!!!! > Ku?era > -----Original Message----- > From: ronja-bounces+kucera_jiri=volny.cz at lists.pointless.net > [mailto:ronja-bounces+kucera_jiri=volny.cz at lists.pointless.net]On Behalf > Of -=RYS=- > Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 10:58 AM > To: Twibright Ronja > Subject: [Ronja] Dalsi linka > > > Ahoj Karle, tak jsme postavili dalsi linku v Zatci. Jestli muzes, tak to > pridej do fotogalerie. > > > Ronja Tetrapolis: > > - TX/RX 130mm sklenena cocka > > - LED F4000 > > - vyhrejvaci odpory uvnitr tubusu > > - PoE a RSSI a LAN trafo (vse na zvlastnim tiskaku) pridano k Twisteru > (tistak) v plast krabici > > - konce trubek a plast krabice maji konektory > > - nestandartni mechanika > > - vzdusna konstrukce RX a TX > > - vzdalenost 180m, RSSI 4.47V / 4.67V > > - slouzi to ISP: http://www.ohremedia.cz > > - fotky na: > http://ok1mjo.zajsoft.net/all/photo/zatec/zatec_fso/mala_posta-Ostrov > > > > Martin -=RYS=- > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From petr.cipis at tiscali.cz Mon Aug 28 15:59:50 2006 From: petr.cipis at tiscali.cz (Cipis) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 16:59:50 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Dalsi linka References: Message-ID: <001101c6cab2$9cb058b0$5046a8c0@cipis.net> To nen? moje pr?ce, moje ronja je?t? nen? hotov? (ani po t?ech letech :D ). Jinak bys to tu mohl rozv?st, co je ?patn?, co jsem si tam v?iml, tak je sto??r uzemn?n a p??vod je do 1m, tak?e na to revizi nepot?ebuj?. Jestli maj? p?ep??ov? ochrany na tom UTP a jestli je nap?jen? p?es svodi?e p?ep?t? tak? nen? podle fotky poznat. Max. co by se dalo ud?lat, tak to UTP nacpat do panc??ovan? trubky ?i hus?ho krku, kter? na ten bleskosvod tak? p?ipoj??. Cipis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jiri Ku?era" To: "Twibright Ronja" Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 4:08 PM Subject: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka > Nechci ti zde d?lat ?kolen? o hromosvodech, ale kdy? ten sn?mek uk??e? > jin?mu elektrik??i ( j? jsem Ostrav?k ) tak ti ur?it? porad? jak to ud?lat > spr?vn?. L?b? se mi ?e to chce? spravit. Mohl by jsi m?t probl?my s > majitelem domu!!! > > -----Original Message----- > From: ronja-bounces+kucera_jiri=volny.cz na lists.pointless.net > [mailto:ronja-bounces+kucera_jiri=volny.cz na lists.pointless.net]On Behalf > Of Cipis > Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 3:49 PM > To: Twibright Ronja > Subject: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka > > > Mno, ten chlap by pot?eboval do dr?ky, to je fakt reprezentace jak bl?zen. > S t?m datov?m kabelem to nen? a? tak hork? - na t? posledn? fotce > hromosvod > jen k????, ostatn? jsem moc ne?tudoval. > Sp?? to vypad? d?sn? hnusn?, na providera, kter? to d?l? profesion?ln?. I > j? > bych dal ten kousek do li?ty a od zdi k t?m cajk?m bu? krk nebo takov? ten > omot?vac? nesmysl. > Takhle to tam p?kn? h?zd?, v?etn? t?ch neodcvakl?ch stahovac?ch p?sk?. > Elektrorevizi nepot?ebuj?, nezasahuj? do zapojen? NN a ostatn?ch. > > Cipis > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jiri Ku?era" > To: "Twibright Ronja" > Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 3:28 PM > Subject: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka > > > Tak jsem si otev?el posledn? fotogalerii a ?asnul jsem. Na posledn? > fotografii nat?ra? nat?r? s cigaretou v ?stech. No dobr? tady jde o jeho > kejh?k. Ale co je hor??, T?hnete datov? kabel t?sn? u hromosvodu!!!! > P?ijde > jedna bou?ka a m?te blesk u v?ech klient? doma a v lep??m p??pad? jen > vyho??. Doporu?uji v?m si nechat ud?lat elektrorevizi. Ostatn? to pat?? k > va?? z?konn? povinnosti!!!! > Ku?era > -----Original Message----- > From: ronja-bounces+kucera_jiri=volny.cz na lists.pointless.net > [mailto:ronja-bounces+kucera_jiri=volny.cz na lists.pointless.net]On Behalf > Of -=RYS=- > Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 10:58 AM > To: Twibright Ronja > Subject: [Ronja] Dalsi linka > > > Ahoj Karle, tak jsme postavili dalsi linku v Zatci. Jestli muzes, tak to > pridej do fotogalerie. > > > Ronja Tetrapolis: > > - TX/RX 130mm sklenena cocka > > - LED F4000 > > - vyhrejvaci odpory uvnitr tubusu > > - PoE a RSSI a LAN trafo (vse na zvlastnim tiskaku) pridano k Twisteru > (tistak) v plast krabici > > - konce trubek a plast krabice maji konektory > > - nestandartni mechanika > > - vzdusna konstrukce RX a TX > > - vzdalenost 180m, RSSI 4.47V / 4.67V > > - slouzi to ISP: http://www.ohremedia.cz > > - fotky na: > http://ok1mjo.zajsoft.net/all/photo/zatec/zatec_fso/mala_posta-Ostrov > > > > Martin -=RYS=- > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > >> _______________________________________________ >> Ronja mailing list >> Ronja na lists.pointless.net >> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja na lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > "w?fz?8=?^?m?M?6?:j??V????j{?*?)????8=?????z?g > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja na lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > From petr.cipis at tiscali.cz Mon Aug 28 16:00:29 2006 From: petr.cipis at tiscali.cz (Cipis) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 17:00:29 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Dalsi linka References: <200608281057.4802@centrum.cz> <20060828145819.GA18355@kestrel.twibright.com> Message-ID: <001801c6cab2$b4025900$5046a8c0@cipis.net> Stejnak je to cune :-) Cipis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karel Kulhavy" To: "Twibright Ronja" Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 4:58 PM Subject: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 03:28:17PM +0200, Jiri Ku?era wrote: > Tak jsem si otev?el posledn? fotogalerii a ?asnul jsem. Na posledn? > fotografii nat?ra? nat?r? s cigaretou v ?stech. No dobr? tady jde o jeho > kejh?k. Ale co je hor??, T?hnete datov? kabel t?sn? u hromosvodu!!!! > P?ijde Maybe it's water-soluble paint then there is no risk of fire. CL< > jedna bou?ka a m?te blesk u v?ech klient? doma a v lep??m p??pad? jen > vyho??. Doporu?uji v?m si nechat ud?lat elektrorevizi. Ostatn? to pat?? k > va?? z?konn? povinnosti!!!! > Ku?era > -----Original Message----- > From: ronja-bounces+kucera_jiri=volny.cz na lists.pointless.net > [mailto:ronja-bounces+kucera_jiri=volny.cz na lists.pointless.net]On Behalf > Of -=RYS=- > Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 10:58 AM > To: Twibright Ronja > Subject: [Ronja] Dalsi linka > > > Ahoj Karle, tak jsme postavili dalsi linku v Zatci. Jestli muzes, tak to > pridej do fotogalerie. > > > Ronja Tetrapolis: > > - TX/RX 130mm sklenena cocka > > - LED F4000 > > - vyhrejvaci odpory uvnitr tubusu > > - PoE a RSSI a LAN trafo (vse na zvlastnim tiskaku) pridano k Twisteru > (tistak) v plast krabici > > - konce trubek a plast krabice maji konektory > > - nestandartni mechanika > > - vzdusna konstrukce RX a TX > > - vzdalenost 180m, RSSI 4.47V / 4.67V > > - slouzi to ISP: http://www.ohremedia.cz > > - fotky na: > http://ok1mjo.zajsoft.net/all/photo/zatec/zatec_fso/mala_posta-Ostrov > > > > Martin -=RYS=- > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja na lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja _______________________________________________ Ronja mailing list Ronja na lists.pointless.net http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From clock at twibright.com Mon Aug 28 16:06:54 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 17:06:54 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Dalsi linka In-Reply-To: References: <200608281057.4802@centrum.cz> Message-ID: <20060828150654.GB18355@kestrel.twibright.com> On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 03:28:17PM +0200, Jiri Ku?era wrote: > Tak jsem si otev?el posledn? fotogalerii a ?asnul jsem. Na posledn? > fotografii nat?ra? nat?r? s cigaretou v ?stech. No dobr? tady jde o jeho > kejh?k. Ale co je hor??, T?hnete datov? kabel t?sn? u hromosvodu!!!! P?ijde Why the fact that a data cable is going close to lightning drain should pose a fire risk in case of lightning strike? CL< > jedna bou?ka a m?te blesk u v?ech klient? doma a v lep??m p??pad? jen > vyho??. Doporu?uji v?m si nechat ud?lat elektrorevizi. Ostatn? to pat?? k > va?? z?konn? povinnosti!!!! > Ku?era > -----Original Message----- > From: ronja-bounces+kucera_jiri=volny.cz at lists.pointless.net > [mailto:ronja-bounces+kucera_jiri=volny.cz at lists.pointless.net]On Behalf > Of -=RYS=- > Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 10:58 AM > To: Twibright Ronja > Subject: [Ronja] Dalsi linka > > > Ahoj Karle, tak jsme postavili dalsi linku v Zatci. Jestli muzes, tak to > pridej do fotogalerie. > > > Ronja Tetrapolis: > > - TX/RX 130mm sklenena cocka > > - LED F4000 > > - vyhrejvaci odpory uvnitr tubusu > > - PoE a RSSI a LAN trafo (vse na zvlastnim tiskaku) pridano k Twisteru > (tistak) v plast krabici > > - konce trubek a plast krabice maji konektory > > - nestandartni mechanika > > - vzdusna konstrukce RX a TX > > - vzdalenost 180m, RSSI 4.47V / 4.67V > > - slouzi to ISP: http://www.ohremedia.cz > > - fotky na: > http://ok1mjo.zajsoft.net/all/photo/zatec/zatec_fso/mala_posta-Ostrov > > > > Martin -=RYS=- > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From clock at twibright.com Mon Aug 28 16:16:01 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 17:16:01 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Dalsi linka In-Reply-To: <002101c6caa8$c3247260$5046a8c0@cipis.net> References: <002101c6caa8$c3247260$5046a8c0@cipis.net> Message-ID: <20060828151601.GC18355@kestrel.twibright.com> On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 03:49:20PM +0200, Cipis wrote: > Mno, ten chlap by pot?eboval do dr?ky, to je fakt reprezentace jak bl?zen. > S t?m datov?m kabelem to nen? a? tak hork? - na t? posledn? fotce hromosvod > jen k????, ostatn? jsem moc ne?tudoval. > Sp?? to vypad? d?sn? hnusn?, na providera, kter? to d?l? profesion?ln?. I j? > bych dal ten kousek do li?ty a od zdi k t?m cajk?m bu? krk nebo takov? ten > omot?vac? nesmysl. For ordinary Ronja it would be just esthetical matter - if the coaxial cable is outdoor it doesn't matter if it's just thrown on the roof. Even if it's not outdoor it affects just lifetime, not performance. Anyway if you install a TV antenna you also throw the cable on a roof and don't use any plastic ducts. RyS is using TP. TP can rot through on the weather and the signal inside UTP can be affected electromagnetically by pooling water even without insulation breach. That's why I didn't put TP cable into the guide. In case of a TP cable plastic ducts can have a technical benefit. When we installed Ronja we used outdoor coaxials and left them just lying on the tin roof. Sometimes we used plastic ties to bundle cables together. CL< > Takhle to tam p?kn? h?zd?, v?etn? t?ch neodcvakl?ch stahovac?ch p?sk?. > Elektrorevizi nepot?ebuj?, nezasahuj? do zapojen? NN a ostatn?ch. > > Cipis > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jiri Ku?era" > To: "Twibright Ronja" > Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 3:28 PM > Subject: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka > > > Tak jsem si otev?el posledn? fotogalerii a ?asnul jsem. Na posledn? > fotografii nat?ra? nat?r? s cigaretou v ?stech. No dobr? tady jde o jeho > kejh?k. Ale co je hor??, T?hnete datov? kabel t?sn? u hromosvodu!!!! P?ijde > jedna bou?ka a m?te blesk u v?ech klient? doma a v lep??m p??pad? jen > vyho??. Doporu?uji v?m si nechat ud?lat elektrorevizi. Ostatn? to pat?? k > va?? z?konn? povinnosti!!!! > Ku?era > -----Original Message----- > From: ronja-bounces+kucera_jiri=volny.cz at lists.pointless.net > [mailto:ronja-bounces+kucera_jiri=volny.cz at lists.pointless.net]On Behalf > Of -=RYS=- > Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 10:58 AM > To: Twibright Ronja > Subject: [Ronja] Dalsi linka > > > Ahoj Karle, tak jsme postavili dalsi linku v Zatci. Jestli muzes, tak to > pridej do fotogalerie. > > > Ronja Tetrapolis: > > - TX/RX 130mm sklenena cocka > > - LED F4000 > > - vyhrejvaci odpory uvnitr tubusu > > - PoE a RSSI a LAN trafo (vse na zvlastnim tiskaku) pridano k Twisteru > (tistak) v plast krabici > > - konce trubek a plast krabice maji konektory > > - nestandartni mechanika > > - vzdusna konstrukce RX a TX > > - vzdalenost 180m, RSSI 4.47V / 4.67V > > - slouzi to ISP: http://www.ohremedia.cz > > - fotky na: > http://ok1mjo.zajsoft.net/all/photo/zatec/zatec_fso/mala_posta-Ostrov > > > > Martin -=RYS=- > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ronja mailing list > > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From clock at twibright.com Mon Aug 28 16:25:38 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 17:25:38 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Dalsi linka In-Reply-To: <200608281057.4802@centrum.cz> References: <200608281057.4802@centrum.cz> Message-ID: <20060828152538.GA9344@kestrel.twibright.com> On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 10:57:35AM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote: > - fotky na:? http://ok1mjo.zajsoft.net/all/photo/zatec/zatec_fso/mala_posta-Ostrov According to my opinion, the lightning safety is probably right. The small masts with Ronja seem to be connected to lightning drain. I can't see from the detail if the connection is made reliably or not, but in any case it's just a matter of few CZK clamp to clamp the lightning drain wire properly to the little mast in case it isn't. If a lightning strikes the installation directly, most of the energy will go to ground provided that the whole building's lightning drain is in proper condition. Some energy may go down the signal cables, but I believe it will be so small that it won't pose any fire risk. The same logic is used in TV antenna installations. CL< > Martin?? -=RYS=- > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From petr.cipis at tiscali.cz Mon Aug 28 16:38:58 2006 From: petr.cipis at tiscali.cz (Cipis) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 17:38:58 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Dalsi linka References: <002101c6caa8$c3247260$5046a8c0@cipis.net> <20060828151601.GC18355@kestrel.twibright.com> Message-ID: <000701c6cab8$13bffbe0$5046a8c0@cipis.net> Mohl bys to prosim dat i cesky - ztratil jsem se nekde na zacatku :-/ Cipis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karel Kulhavy" To: "Twibright Ronja" Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 5:16 PM Subject: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 03:49:20PM +0200, Cipis wrote: > Mno, ten chlap by pot?eboval do dr?ky, to je fakt reprezentace jak bl?zen. > S t?m datov?m kabelem to nen? a? tak hork? - na t? posledn? fotce > hromosvod > jen k????, ostatn? jsem moc ne?tudoval. > Sp?? to vypad? d?sn? hnusn?, na providera, kter? to d?l? profesion?ln?. I > j? > bych dal ten kousek do li?ty a od zdi k t?m cajk?m bu? krk nebo takov? ten > omot?vac? nesmysl. For ordinary Ronja it would be just esthetical matter - if the coaxial cable is outdoor it doesn't matter if it's just thrown on the roof. Even if it's not outdoor it affects just lifetime, not performance. Anyway if you install a TV antenna you also throw the cable on a roof and don't use any plastic ducts. RyS is using TP. TP can rot through on the weather and the signal inside UTP can be affected electromagnetically by pooling water even without insulation breach. That's why I didn't put TP cable into the guide. In case of a TP cable plastic ducts can have a technical benefit. When we installed Ronja we used outdoor coaxials and left them just lying on the tin roof. Sometimes we used plastic ties to bundle cables together. CL< > Takhle to tam p?kn? h?zd?, v?etn? t?ch neodcvakl?ch stahovac?ch p?sk?. > Elektrorevizi nepot?ebuj?, nezasahuj? do zapojen? NN a ostatn?ch. > > Cipis > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jiri Ku?era" > To: "Twibright Ronja" > Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 3:28 PM > Subject: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka > > > Tak jsem si otev?el posledn? fotogalerii a ?asnul jsem. Na posledn? > fotografii nat?ra? nat?r? s cigaretou v ?stech. No dobr? tady jde o jeho > kejh?k. Ale co je hor??, T?hnete datov? kabel t?sn? u hromosvodu!!!! > P?ijde > jedna bou?ka a m?te blesk u v?ech klient? doma a v lep??m p??pad? jen > vyho??. Doporu?uji v?m si nechat ud?lat elektrorevizi. Ostatn? to pat?? k > va?? z?konn? povinnosti!!!! > Ku?era > -----Original Message----- > From: ronja-bounces+kucera_jiri=volny.cz na lists.pointless.net > [mailto:ronja-bounces+kucera_jiri=volny.cz na lists.pointless.net]On Behalf > Of -=RYS=- > Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 10:58 AM > To: Twibright Ronja > Subject: [Ronja] Dalsi linka > > > Ahoj Karle, tak jsme postavili dalsi linku v Zatci. Jestli muzes, tak to > pridej do fotogalerie. > > > Ronja Tetrapolis: > > - TX/RX 130mm sklenena cocka > > - LED F4000 > > - vyhrejvaci odpory uvnitr tubusu > > - PoE a RSSI a LAN trafo (vse na zvlastnim tiskaku) pridano k Twisteru > (tistak) v plast krabici > > - konce trubek a plast krabice maji konektory > > - nestandartni mechanika > > - vzdusna konstrukce RX a TX > > - vzdalenost 180m, RSSI 4.47V / 4.67V > > - slouzi to ISP: http://www.ohremedia.cz > > - fotky na: > http://ok1mjo.zajsoft.net/all/photo/zatec/zatec_fso/mala_posta-Ostrov > > > > Martin -=RYS=- > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ronja mailing list > > Ronja na lists.pointless.net > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja na lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja _______________________________________________ Ronja mailing list Ronja na lists.pointless.net http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From klapek at kki.net.pl Mon Aug 28 17:04:57 2006 From: klapek at kki.net.pl (Tomasz Koprowski) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 18:04:57 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Smiling faces In-Reply-To: <20060827110934.GA22656@kestrel.twibright.com> References: <20060827110934.GA22656@kestrel.twibright.com> Message-ID: <200608281804.58058.klapek@kki.net.pl> On Sunday 27 of August 2006 13:09, Karel Kulhavy wrote: > http://ronja.twibright.com/hobby.php I haven't visited the site for quite a long time, now I see webdesign is brand new. Looks great, congratulations to the one who made it. :) Regards, Tomek Koprowski From clock at twibright.com Mon Aug 28 18:08:24 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 19:08:24 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Dalsi linka In-Reply-To: <200608281057.4802@centrum.cz> References: <200608281057.4802@centrum.cz> Message-ID: <20060828170824.GA3940@kestrel.twibright.com> On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 10:57:35AM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote: > Ahoj Karle, tak jsme postavili dalsi linku v Zatci. Jestli muzes, tak to pridej do fotogalerie. Thanks, added. CL< > Ronja Tetrapolis: > - TX/RX 130mm sklenena cocka > - LED F4000 > - vyhrejvaci odpory uvnitr tubusu > - PoE a RSSI a LAN trafo (vse na zvlastnim?tiskaku)?pridano k Twisteru (tistak)?v plast krabici > - konce trubek a plast krabice?maji konektory > - nestandartni mechanika > - vzdusna konstrukce RX a TX > - vzdalenost 180m, ?RSSI 4.47V / 4.67V > - slouzi to ISP:? http://www.ohremedia.cz > - fotky na:? http://ok1mjo.zajsoft.net/all/photo/zatec/zatec_fso/mala_posta-Ostrov > Martin?? -=RYS=- > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From clock at twibright.com Mon Aug 28 18:13:59 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 19:13:59 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Smiling faces In-Reply-To: <200608281804.58058.klapek@kki.net.pl> References: <20060827110934.GA22656@kestrel.twibright.com> <200608281804.58058.klapek@kki.net.pl> Message-ID: <20060828171359.GA13307@kestrel.twibright.com> On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 06:04:57PM +0200, Tomasz Koprowski wrote: > On Sunday 27 of August 2006 13:09, Karel Kulhavy wrote: > > > http://ronja.twibright.com/hobby.php > > I haven't visited the site for quite a long time, > now I see webdesign is brand new. Looks great, > congratulations to the one who made it. :) Oh thanks. hansmi and lucasvo also did something with the CSS... CL< > > Regards, > Tomek Koprowski > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From jdb at lartmaker.nl Mon Aug 28 18:35:04 2006 From: jdb at lartmaker.nl (J.D. Bakker) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 19:35:04 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Speed question In-Reply-To: <20060821141313.GA28599@kestrel.twibright.com> References: <20060531190245.GB21205@Galilei.galilei.homelinux.net> <20060602175806.GA23785@Galilei.galilei.homelinux.net> <20060821124718.GB8179@kestrel.twibright.com> <20060821141313.GA28599@kestrel.twibright.com> Message-ID: > > >The digital pulse shaper is already in the existing TX. >> >> Where ? What is needed is a simple pulse stretcher -- turn a 50ns '1' >> into a 60ns '1'. > >It's between the pair of transistor and the input into the gates. You can >set the amount of stretching by resistors in the divider there. Ah yes, I see. Doesn't that drift with temperature, though ? Here's an alternative suggestion: instead of the AC-coupled NPN differential pair input limiter you're using, how about a DC-coupled PNP version of the same circuit ? With a potentiometer to the base of the 'other' transistor (the one which isn't receiving the input signal) you can vary the duty cycle presented to the LED driver. I implement something similar on the receive side of the 100Mb-system. The synchronizer I plan to use works best with a 50/50 duty cycle, so I have a duty cycle shifter in the limiter feedback loop. JDB. [nice 'smiling faces', BTW] -- LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files. http://www.lartmaker.nl/ From clock at twibright.com Mon Aug 28 19:23:22 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 20:23:22 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] BER plot ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20060828182322.GA4665@kestrel.twibright.com> On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 04:35:57PM +0200, J.D. Bakker wrote: > Hi Clock, hi all, > > On page 21 of > > http://ronja.twibright.com/msmt/example.pdf > > linked from > > http://ronja.twibright.com/testing/ber_tetrapolis_bertest.php > > a SNR vs BER plot is shown. What is the basis (formula, reference) > behind this plot ? It appears overly optimistic. For example, in the Hehe now I realize I can't even imagine how a signal to noise ratio in an optical system should be calculated. Signal power is quite easy to understand - if you shine say 100W uninterrupted then the power is 100W. When you shine a 100W bulb and leave it 1s on and 1s off, then the average power is 50W and peak power 100W. But how is it with the noise? The noise is a gaussian random variable so the peaks are infinitely high. So you would need to have a light source with infinite power and run it at infinite average power as the dark peaks go theoretically infinitely low too. CL< > plot a BER of 1e-6 is achieved with a SNR of less than 7dB, whereas > according to my textbook [1] at least 10.5dB is required. Others, > like http://www.sss-mag.com/cber.html , seem to agree. > > What gives ? > > JDB. > > [1] Leon W. Couch II, "Digital and analog communications systems", > fourth edition > -- > LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files. > http://www.lartmaker.nl/ > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From cd930 at centrum.cz Mon Aug 28 19:38:50 2006 From: cd930 at centrum.cz (-=RYS=-) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 20:38:50 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Dalsi linka In-Reply-To: <20060828145819.GA18355@kestrel.twibright.com> References: 200608281057.4802@centrum.cz> <20060828145819.GA18355@kestrel.twibright.com> Message-ID: <200608282038.25263@centrum.cz> Ahoj Karle, jelikoz pri protahovani rour skrze stresni poklop se roury odrely, tak je tata natrel vodou reditelnou barvou. Zakladovka byla bila a na par mistech stacilo prejet stetcem. -=RYS=- PS: co se tyce kostreni....jeste jednou se prosim podivej na fotky. Jinak zdroj je s transilem atd... . UTP trafo galvanicky oddeluje LAN od switche z druhe strany vytahovky. ______________________________________________________________ > Od: clock na twibright.com > Komu: Twibright Ronja > Datum: 28.08.2006 16:58 > P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka > >On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 03:28:17PM +0200, Jiri Ku?era wrote: >> Tak jsem si otev?el posledn? fotogalerii a ?asnul jsem. Na posledn? >> fotografii nat?ra? nat?r? s cigaretou v ?stech. No dobr? tady jde o jeho >> kejh?k. Ale co je hor??, T?hnete datov? kabel t?sn? u hromosvodu!!!! P?ijde > >Maybe it's water-soluble paint then there is no risk of fire. > >CL< > >> jedna bou?ka a m?te blesk u v?ech klient? doma a v lep??m p??pad? jen >> vyho??. Doporu?uji v?m si nechat ud?lat elektrorevizi. Ostatn? to pat?? k >> va?? z?konn? povinnosti!!!! >> Ku?era >> ? -----Original Message----- >> ? From: ronja-bounces+kucera_jiri=volny.cz na lists.pointless.net >> [mailto:ronja-bounces+kucera_jiri=volny.cz na lists.pointless.net]On Behalf ------------- dal?? ??st --------------- HTML p??loha byla odstran?na... URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20060828/a31d7d35/attachment.html From cd930 at centrum.cz Mon Aug 28 19:48:10 2006 From: cd930 at centrum.cz (-=RYS=-) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 20:48:10 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Dalsi linka In-Reply-To: References: <200608281057.4802@centrum.cz> Message-ID: <200608282048.27584@centrum.cz> - naterac je muj otec - je to vodou reditelna barva - datovy kabel je specialne prispusoben do 6kV a tak jen "krizuju" hromosvod - blesk u vsech klientu resi ISP, ne ja, ja resil jen Ronju - elektrorevize k tomu je A ted par otazek: 1) kolik si vyrobil a namontoval Ronji ? 2) Kdyz se podivas do fotogalerie instalaci na Karlovejch strankach, tak kolik jich ma elektrorevizi... tedy pokud to to snese elektrorevizi ______________________________________________________________ > Od: kucera_jiri na volny.cz > > > > > > > Tak >jsem si otev?el posledn? fotogalerii a ?asnul jsem. Na posledn? fotografii >nat?ra? nat?r? s cigaretou v ?stech. No dobr? tady jde o jeho kejh?k. Ale co je >hor??, T?hnete datov? kabel t?sn? u hromosvodu!!!! P?ijde jedna bou?ka a m?te >blesk u v?ech klient? doma a v lep??m p??pad? jen vyho??. Doporu?uji v?m si >nechat ud?lat elektrorevizi. Ostatn? to pat?? k va?? z?konn? >povinnosti!!!!>Ku?era ------------- dal?? ??st --------------- HTML p??loha byla odstran?na... URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20060828/498a4d36/attachment.html From petr.cipis at tiscali.cz Mon Aug 28 19:52:14 2006 From: petr.cipis at tiscali.cz (Cipis) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 20:52:14 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Dalsi linka References: <200608281057.4802@centrum.cz> <200608282048.27584@centrum.cz> Message-ID: <001e01c6cad3$13ff81a0$5046a8c0@cipis.net> proc by to melo m?t elektrorevizi? vsechno to pouziva bezpecna napeti, tak k cemu revize? taky nevim, co mu vadi na krizeni, ale do tech trubek/list by to fakt chtelo cigareta v hube je dost odporna, kdyz uz to nastesti zakazali ve filmu a v reklamach, tak by to chtelo i nejakou tu kulturu na fotkach ... Cipis ----- Original Message ----- From: "-=RYS=-" To: Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 8:48 PM Subject: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka >- naterac je muj otec > - je to vodou reditelna barva > - datovy kabel je specialne prispusoben do 6kV a tak jen "krizuju" > hromosvod > - blesk u vsech klientu resi ISP, ne ja, ja resil jen Ronju > - elektrorevize k tomu je > A ted par otazek: > 1) kolik si vyrobil a namontoval Ronji ? > 2) Kdyz se podivas do fotogalerie instalaci na Karlovejch strankach, tak > kolik jich ma elektrorevizi... tedy pokud to to snese elektrorevizi > > > ______________________________________________________________ >> Od: kucera_jiri na volny.cz > >> >> > > > > > > Tak >jsem si otev?el posledn? fotogalerii a ?asnul jsem. Na posledn? > fotografii >nat?ra? nat?r? s cigaretou v ?stech. No dobr? tady jde o jeho > kejh?k. Ale co je >hor??, T?hnete datov? kabel t?sn? u hromosvodu!!!! > P?ijde jedna bou?ka a m?te >blesk u v?ech klient? doma a v lep??m p??pad? > jen vyho??. Doporu?uji v?m si >nechat ud?lat elektrorevizi. Ostatn? to > pat?? k va?? z?konn? >povinnosti!!!!>Ku?era > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja na lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > From cd930 at centrum.cz Mon Aug 28 19:54:11 2006 From: cd930 at centrum.cz (-=RYS=-) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 20:54:11 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Dalsi linka In-Reply-To: <001101c6cab2$9cb058b0$5046a8c0@cipis.net> References: MFEBKHPDNDJBNFMLEMJEKENICCAA.kucera_jiri@volny.cz> <001101c6cab2$9cb058b0$5046a8c0@cipis.net> Message-ID: <200608282054.29040@centrum.cz> - Cipisi, samozrejme ochrany tam jsou a vse je galvanicky oddeleno - vysvetli mi, proc bych tam mel davat 40cm husiho krku nebo trubky.....jeste jednou se prosim podivej na fotky Martin ______________________________________________________________ > Od: petr.cipis na tiscali.cz > Komu: "Twibright Ronja" > Datum: 28.08.2006 17:00 > P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka > >To nen? moje pr?ce, moje ronja je?t? nen? hotov? (ani po t?ech letech :D ). > >Jinak bys to tu mohl rozv?st, co je ?patn?, co jsem si tam v?iml, tak je >sto??r uzemn?n a p??vod je do 1m, tak?e na to revizi nepot?ebuj?. >Jestli maj? p?ep??ov? ochrany na tom UTP a jestli je nap?jen? p?es svodi?e >p?ep?t? tak? nen? podle fotky poznat. >Max. co by se dalo ud?lat, tak to UTP nacpat do panc??ovan? trubky ?i hus?ho >krku, kter? na ten bleskosvod tak? p?ipoj??. > >Cipis > > ------------- dal?? ??st --------------- HTML p??loha byla odstran?na... URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20060828/e3f1cc61/attachment.html From cd930 at centrum.cz Mon Aug 28 20:01:06 2006 From: cd930 at centrum.cz (-=RYS=-) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 21:01:06 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Dalsi linka In-Reply-To: <20060828151601.GC18355@kestrel.twibright.com> References: MFEBKHPDNDJBNFMLEMJECENICCAA.kucera_jiri@volny.cz> <002101c6caa8$c3247260$5046a8c0@cipis.net> <20060828151601.GC18355@kestrel.twibright.com> Message-ID: <200608282101.30699@centrum.cz> Vse je v provedeni venkovnim. Ano, existuje i UTP pro venkovni provedeni. Filtr do 40MHz proti ruseni jsem samozrejme udelal. I kdyz si myslim, ze za 78S15 nic "neleze" (meril jsem to) . Martin ______________________________________________________________ > Od: clock na twibright.com > Komu: Twibright Ronja > Datum: 28.08.2006 17:16 > P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka > >On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 03:49:20PM +0200, Cipis wrote: >> Mno, ten chlap by pot?eboval do dr?ky, to je fakt reprezentace jak bl?zen. >> S t?m datov?m kabelem to nen? a? tak hork? - na t? posledn? fotce hromosvod > jen k????, ostatn? jsem moc ne?tudoval. >> Sp?? to vypad? d?sn? hnusn?, na providera, kter? to d?l? profesion?ln?. I j? > bych dal ten kousek do li?ty a od zdi k t?m cajk?m bu? krk nebo takov? ten > omot?vac? nesmysl. > >For ordinary Ronja it would be just esthetical matter - if the coaxial cable is >outdoor it doesn't matter if it's just thrown on the roof. ?Even if it's not >outdoor it affects just lifetime, not performance. ?Anyway if you install a TV >antenna you also throw the cable on a roof and don't use any plastic ducts. > >RyS is using TP. TP can rot through on the weather and the signal inside UTP >can be affected electromagnetically by pooling water even without insulation >breach. ?That's why I didn't put TP cable into the guide. In case of a TP cable >plastic ducts can have a technical benefit. > >When we installed Ronja we used outdoor coaxials and left them just lying on >the tin roof. Sometimes we used plastic ties to bundle cables together. > >CL< ------------- dal?? ??st --------------- HTML p??loha byla odstran?na... URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20060828/31a0cfe8/attachment.html From petr.cipis at tiscali.cz Mon Aug 28 20:26:31 2006 From: petr.cipis at tiscali.cz (Cipis) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 21:26:31 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Dalsi linka References: MFEBKHPDNDJBNFMLEMJEKENICCAA.kucera_jiri@volny.cz><001101c6cab2$9cb058b0$5046a8c0@cipis.net> <200608282054.29040@centrum.cz> Message-ID: <002b01c6cad7$de072f30$5046a8c0@cipis.net> protoze to vypada hnusne volne lozeny kabel, navic podle fotky vypada jako obyc UTP ... Cipis ----- Original Message ----- From: "-=RYS=-" To: Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 8:54 PM Subject: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka >- Cipisi, samozrejme ochrany tam jsou a vse je galvanicky oddeleno > - vysvetli mi, proc bych tam mel davat 40cm husiho krku nebo > trubky.....jeste jednou se prosim podivej na fotky > Martin > > ______________________________________________________________ >> Od: petr.cipis na tiscali.cz >> Komu: "Twibright Ronja" >> Datum: 28.08.2006 17:00 >> P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka >> >>To nen? moje pr?ce, moje ronja je?t? nen? hotov? (ani po t?ech letech >>:D ). >> >>Jinak bys to tu mohl rozv?st, co je ?patn?, co jsem si tam v?iml, tak je >>sto??r uzemn?n a p??vod je do 1m, tak?e na to revizi nepot?ebuj?. >>Jestli maj? p?ep??ov? ochrany na tom UTP a jestli je nap?jen? p?es svodi?e >>p?ep?t? tak? nen? podle fotky poznat. >>Max. co by se dalo ud?lat, tak to UTP nacpat do panc??ovan? trubky ?i >>hus?ho >>krku, kter? na ten bleskosvod tak? p?ipoj??. >> >>Cipis >> >> > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja na lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > From clock at twibright.com Mon Aug 28 21:01:29 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 22:01:29 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Dalsi linka In-Reply-To: <200608282101.30699@centrum.cz> References: <002101c6caa8$c3247260$5046a8c0@cipis.net> <20060828151601.GC18355@kestrel.twibright.com> <200608282101.30699@centrum.cz> Message-ID: <20060828200129.GA13493@kestrel.twibright.com> On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 09:01:06PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote: > > Vse je v provedeni venkovnim. > Ano, existuje i UTP pro venkovni provedeni. Can you get STP for outdoor? If yes, where? Or at least where you can get the outdoor UTP? CL< > Filtr do 40MHz proti ruseni jsem samozrejme udelal. > I kdyz si myslim, ze za 78S15 nic "neleze" (meril jsem to) . > Martin > > ______________________________________________________________ > > Od: clock at twibright.com > > Komu: Twibright Ronja > > Datum: 28.08.2006 17:16 > > P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka > > > >On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 03:49:20PM +0200, Cipis wrote: > >> Mno, ten chlap by pot?eboval do dr?ky, to je fakt reprezentace jak bl?zen. > >> S t?m datov?m kabelem to nen? a? tak hork? - na t? posledn? fotce hromosvod > jen k????, ostatn? jsem moc ne?tudoval. > >> Sp?? to vypad? d?sn? hnusn?, na providera, kter? to d?l? profesion?ln?. I j? > bych dal ten kousek do li?ty a od zdi k t?m cajk?m bu? krk nebo takov? ten > omot?vac? nesmysl. > > > >For ordinary Ronja it would be just esthetical matter - if the coaxial cable is > >outdoor it doesn't matter if it's just thrown on the roof. ?Even if it's not > >outdoor it affects just lifetime, not performance. ?Anyway if you install a TV > >antenna you also throw the cable on a roof and don't use any plastic ducts. > > > >RyS is using TP. TP can rot through on the weather and the signal inside UTP > >can be affected electromagnetically by pooling water even without insulation > >breach. ?That's why I didn't put TP cable into the guide. In case of a TP cable > >plastic ducts can have a technical benefit. > > > >When we installed Ronja we used outdoor coaxials and left them just lying on > >the tin roof. Sometimes we used plastic ties to bundle cables together. > > > >CL< > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From clock at twibright.com Mon Aug 28 21:41:58 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 22:41:58 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Speed question In-Reply-To: References: <20060531190245.GB21205@Galilei.galilei.homelinux.net> <20060602175806.GA23785@Galilei.galilei.homelinux.net> <20060821124718.GB8179@kestrel.twibright.com> <20060821141313.GA28599@kestrel.twibright.com> Message-ID: <20060828204158.GA26248@kestrel.twibright.com> On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 07:35:04PM +0200, J.D. Bakker wrote: > > > >The digital pulse shaper is already in the existing TX. > >> > >> Where ? What is needed is a simple pulse stretcher -- turn a 50ns '1' > >> into a 60ns '1'. > > > >It's between the pair of transistor and the input into the gates. You can > >set the amount of stretching by resistors in the divider there. > > Ah yes, I see. Doesn't that drift with temperature, though ? Everything drifts with temperature (well the value of the number pi doesn't so let's say almost everything). So this will surely drift too. > > Here's an alternative suggestion: instead of the AC-coupled NPN > differential pair input limiter you're using, how about a DC-coupled > PNP version of the same circuit ? With a potentiometer to the base of How? > the 'other' transistor (the one which isn't receiving the input > signal) you can vary the duty cycle presented to the LED driver. > > I implement something similar on the receive side of the > 100Mb-system. The synchronizer I plan to use works best with a 50/50 > duty cycle, so I have a duty cycle shifter in the limiter feedback > loop. > > JDB. > [nice 'smiling faces', BTW] Thanks CL< > -- > LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files. > http://www.lartmaker.nl/ > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From jdb at lartmaker.nl Mon Aug 28 22:38:50 2006 From: jdb at lartmaker.nl (J.D. Bakker) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 23:38:50 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Speed question In-Reply-To: <20060828204158.GA26248@kestrel.twibright.com> References: <20060531190245.GB21205@Galilei.galilei.homelinux.net> <20060602175806.GA23785@Galilei.galilei.homelinux.net> <20060821124718.GB8179@kestrel.twibright.com> <20060821141313.GA28599@kestrel.twibright.com> <20060828204158.GA26248@kestrel.twibright.com> Message-ID: >On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 07:35:04PM +0200, J.D. Bakker wrote: > > Here's an alternative suggestion: instead of the AC-coupled NPN >> differential pair input limiter you're using, how about a DC-coupled >> PNP version of the same circuit ? With a potentiometer to the base of > >How? Replace the input (Q1 and Q2 and related passives) of the transmitter with something like http://www.lartmaker.nl/pnp-difflimiter.png Now, - set the voltage divider on the base of the left transistor to ~6V - set the shared emitter resistor so that a current of ~1mA flows through it (or, better, use a current source so you're immune to variations in V+) - set the collector resistor of the right transistor so that it drops 5V (or whatever the inverter supply voltage is) at 1mA. This yields a fast limiting amplifier. With the pot you can set the threshold, and since the input signal is band-limited, varying the threshold will change the duty cycle. For a fancier control, you could add a feedback loop which monitors a low pass filtered copy of the input to the inverter. Whaddayathink ? JDB. -- LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files. http://www.lartmaker.nl/ From cd930 at centrum.cz Mon Aug 28 22:46:33 2006 From: cd930 at centrum.cz (-=RYS=-) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 23:46:33 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Dalsi linka In-Reply-To: <20060828200129.GA13493@kestrel.twibright.com> References: 002101c6caa8$c3247260$5046a8c0@cipis.net> <200608282101.30699@centrum.cz> <20060828200129.GA13493@kestrel.twibright.com> Message-ID: <200608282346.11750@centrum.cz> Ten venkovni UTP ma drat 0.62mm a dvojitou "buzirku" okolo "dratu". Taky "buzirka" okolo dratu je silnejsi. Taky to ma dvojitej plast obal. Vim, ze existuje i STP verze. Ja to mam od znameho....kde to sehnal..nevim. Ale mam dojem, ze jsem to videl v katalogu Alfatroniku. Martin ______________________________________________________________ > Od: clock na twibright.com > Komu: Twibright Ronja > Datum: 28.08.2006 22:02 > P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka > >On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 09:01:06PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote: >> > Vse je v provedeni venkovnim. >> Ano, existuje i UTP pro venkovni provedeni. > >Can you get STP for outdoor? If yes, where? Or at least where you can get >the outdoor UTP? > >CL< >> Filtr do 40MHz proti ruseni jsem samozrejme udelal. >> I kdyz si myslim, ze za 78S15 nic "neleze" (meril jsem to) . >> Martin >> > ______________________________________________________________ >> > Od: clock na twibright.com >> > Komu: Twibright Ronja >> > Datum: 28.08.2006 17:16 >> > P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka >> > >> >On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 03:49:20PM +0200, Cipis wrote: >> >> Mno, ten chlap by pot?eboval do dr?ky, to je fakt reprezentace jak bl?zen. >> >> S t?m datov?m kabelem to nen? a? tak hork? - na t? posledn? fotce hromosvod > jen k????, ostatn? jsem moc ne?tudoval. >> >> Sp?? to vypad? d?sn? hnusn?, na providera, kter? to d?l? profesion?ln?. I j? > bych dal ten kousek do li?ty a od zdi k t?m cajk?m bu? krk nebo takov? ten > omot?vac? nesmysl. >> > >> >For ordinary Ronja it would be just esthetical matter - if the coaxial cable is >> >outdoor it doesn't matter if it's just thrown on the roof. ?Even if it's not >> >outdoor it affects just lifetime, not performance. ?Anyway if you install a TV >> >antenna you also throw the cable on a roof and don't use any plastic ducts. >> > >> >RyS is using TP. TP can rot through on the weather and the signal inside UTP >> >can be affected electromagnetically by pooling water even without insulation >> >breach. ?That's why I didn't put TP cable into the guide. In case of a TP cable >> >plastic ducts can have a technical benefit. >> > >> >When we installed Ronja we used outdoor coaxials and left them just lying on >> >the tin roof. Sometimes we used plastic ties to bundle cables together. >> > >> >CL< >> > > >> _______________________________________________ >> Ronja mailing list >> Ronja na lists.pointless.net >> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > >_______________________________________________ >Ronja mailing list >Ronja na lists.pointless.net >http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > ------------- dal?? ??st --------------- HTML p??loha byla odstran?na... URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20060828/bf72fb52/attachment.html From jdb at lartmaker.nl Mon Aug 28 23:33:07 2006 From: jdb at lartmaker.nl (J.D. Bakker) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 00:33:07 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] BER plot ? In-Reply-To: <20060828182322.GA4665@kestrel.twibright.com> References: <20060828182322.GA4665@kestrel.twibright.com> Message-ID: [This is mostly off the top of my head; I might have missed a few factors here and there. Corrections are welcome] >Hehe now I realize I can't even imagine how a signal to noise ratio >in an optical system should be calculated. Mostly the same as any other communications system -- with a link budget analysis. Let's say you have a 10Mbps Manchester signal into a shot noise limited receiver, and you want to know the minimum input power for 1e-9 BER. Assuming ideal filtering, http://www.sss-mag.com/cber.html (and others) say this takes an Eb/No of 12.5dB. Now, C/N = Eb/No * (R/B) where C/N is the Carrier (or signal) to Noise ratio R is the bit/symbol rate of the transmitted signal B is the receiver bandwidth Manchester encoding with rectangular pulses requires a minimal bandwidth B of 2R, so C/N = 12.5 + 10*log(10e6/20e6) = 12.5 - 3 = 9.5dB How much noise does the receiver, um, receive ? Assuming that: - the *only* noise in the receiver is shot noise (not realistic) - the receiver uses an unmodified SFH203 photodiode - daylight is 1000 lux The incident daylight produces 80uA of photocurrent (source: SFH203 datasheet). According to The Art of Electronics (and others, including http://optoelectronics.perkinelmer.com/content/whitepapers/NoiseandStabilityPINDetectors.pdf), the shot noise current is in = sqrt(2*q*B*id) (I've ignored dark current, since it's way << the photocurrent) in is the shot noise q is the charge of an electron (1.6e-19 C) B is the measurement (receiver) bandwidth id is the DC photocurrent so, in = sqrt(2*(1.6e-19)*(20e6)*(80e-6)) = 23e-9 A = 23nA The daylight sensitivity of any Si PIN detector is ~0.5 A/W, so this corresponds to ~11nW, or 10log(11e-9/1e-3) = -49.5dBm. This is a LOT of base noise for a communication system; the noise floor of an 802.11 system lies between -90...-100dBm. All this means that the absolute minimum received power in our ideal system would have to be -49.5 + 9.5 = -40dBm, or 100nW. Now add receiver noise, non-ideal filtering and atmospherical attenuation and you'll end up nearer 1..10uW. More information can be found at http://www.sss-mag.com/ebn0.html , or by googling for "link budget". Comms engineers always add a margin on top of the link budget; this margin usually lies between 10 and 30dB depending on a gazillion factors. It's often funny to see project reports where an engineer has spent a month getting front-end noise from 1.5dB to 1.4dB, and then finishes by saying "...and we've added 35dB margin" ;-) (not that I don't see the value in optimizing front-ends, mind you). Questions ? Suggestions ? Flames ? JDB. -- LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files. http://www.lartmaker.nl/ From cd930 at centrum.cz Mon Aug 28 23:36:25 2006 From: cd930 at centrum.cz (-=RYS=-) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 00:36:25 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Zajimavej pohled Message-ID: <200608290036.5619@centrum.cz> Ahoj Karle, na obrazku: http://images.twibright.com/images/ronja/installations/czech/zatec4/Zatec_link4_sideB_08-na_pozadi_dalsi_link.jpg mas pohled na dve linky (2 a 3), temer v jedne lajne za sebou. Posilam jeste peknejsi fotky: http://ok1mjo.zajsoft.net/all/photo/zatec/zatec_fso/mala_posta_pohled_na_link_3-4/mala_posta-pohled_na_link_3-4_02.jpg -=RYS=- ------------- dal?? ??st --------------- HTML p??loha byla odstran?na... URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20060829/5c87547b/attachment.html From jdb at lartmaker.nl Tue Aug 29 00:42:03 2006 From: jdb at lartmaker.nl (J.D. Bakker) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 01:42:03 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] BER plot ? In-Reply-To: References: <20060828182322.GA4665@kestrel.twibright.com> Message-ID: [Ta-ta-talking to myself here] Like I said: >[This is mostly off the top of my head; I might have missed a few >factors here and there. Corrections are welcome] [snip] >so, > > in = sqrt(2*(1.6e-19)*(20e6)*(80e-6)) = 23e-9 A = 23nA > >The daylight sensitivity of any Si PIN detector is ~0.5 A/W, so this >corresponds to ~11nW, or 10log(11e-9/1e-3) = -49.5dBm. Nope, that's wrong. Must *divide* by 0.5, not multiply by it. So the equivalent noise power is ~46nW, or -43.5dBm. Sorry about that, JD 'math is hard' B. -- If you think the problem is bad now, just wait until we've solved it. -- Arthur Kasspe From clock at twibright.com Tue Aug 29 09:14:30 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 10:14:30 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] BER plot ? In-Reply-To: References: <20060828182322.GA4665@kestrel.twibright.com> Message-ID: <20060829081430.GB29915@kestrel.twibright.com> On Tue, Aug 29, 2006 at 12:33:07AM +0200, J.D. Bakker wrote: > [This is mostly off the top of my head; I might have missed a few > factors here and there. Corrections are welcome] > > >Hehe now I realize I can't even imagine how a signal to noise ratio > >in an optical system should be calculated. > > Mostly the same as any other communications system -- with a link > budget analysis. > > Let's say you have a 10Mbps Manchester signal into a shot noise > limited receiver, and you want to know the minimum input power for > 1e-9 BER. > > Assuming ideal filtering, http://www.sss-mag.com/cber.html (and > others) say this takes an Eb/No of 12.5dB. Now, > > C/N = Eb/No * (R/B) > > where > > C/N is the Carrier (or signal) to Noise ratio > R is the bit/symbol rate of the transmitted signal > B is the receiver bandwidth > > Manchester encoding with rectangular pulses requires a minimal > bandwidth B of 2R, so C/N = 12.5 + 10*log(10e6/20e6) = 12.5 - 3 = > 9.5dB > > How much noise does the receiver, um, receive ? Assuming that: > > - the *only* noise in the receiver is shot noise (not realistic) > - the receiver uses an unmodified SFH203 photodiode > - daylight is 1000 lux > > The incident daylight produces 80uA of photocurrent (source: SFH203 > datasheet). According to The Art of Electronics (and others, > including > http://optoelectronics.perkinelmer.com/content/whitepapers/NoiseandStabilityPINDetectors.pdf), > the shot noise current is > > in = sqrt(2*q*B*id) > > (I've ignored dark current, since it's way << the photocurrent) > > in is the shot noise > q is the charge of an electron (1.6e-19 C) > B is the measurement (receiver) bandwidth > id is the DC photocurrent > > so, > > in = sqrt(2*(1.6e-19)*(20e6)*(80e-6)) = 23e-9 A = 23nA > > The daylight sensitivity of any Si PIN detector is ~0.5 A/W, so this > corresponds to ~11nW, or 10log(11e-9/1e-3) = -49.5dBm. This is a LOT The problem here is, 11nW of what? CL< > of base noise for a communication system; the noise floor of an > 802.11 system lies between -90...-100dBm. > > All this means that the absolute minimum received power in our ideal > system would have to be -49.5 + 9.5 = -40dBm, or 100nW. Now add > receiver noise, non-ideal filtering and atmospherical attenuation and > you'll end up nearer 1..10uW. > > More information can be found at http://www.sss-mag.com/ebn0.html , > or by googling for "link budget". > > Comms engineers always add a margin on top of the link budget; this > margin usually lies between 10 and 30dB depending on a gazillion > factors. It's often funny to see project reports where an engineer > has spent a month getting front-end noise from 1.5dB to 1.4dB, and > then finishes by saying "...and we've added 35dB margin" ;-) (not > that I don't see the value in optimizing front-ends, mind you). > > Questions ? Suggestions ? Flames ? > > JDB. > -- > LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files. > http://www.lartmaker.nl/ > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From jdb at lartmaker.nl Tue Aug 29 12:30:12 2006 From: jdb at lartmaker.nl (J.D. Bakker) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 13:30:12 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] BER plot ? In-Reply-To: <20060829081430.GB29915@kestrel.twibright.com> References: <20060828182322.GA4665@kestrel.twibright.com> <20060829081430.GB29915@kestrel.twibright.com> Message-ID: Karel wrote: >On Tue, Aug 29, 2006 at 12:33:07AM +0200, J.D. Bakker wrote: > > so, >> >> in = sqrt(2*(1.6e-19)*(20e6)*(80e-6)) = 23e-9 A = 23nA >> >> The daylight sensitivity of any Si PIN detector is ~0.5 A/W, so this >> corresponds to ~11nW, or 10log(11e-9/1e-3) = -49.5dBm. This is a LOT [as I wrote later last night, this should be 46nW] >The problem here is, 11nW of what? What do you mean, 'of what' ? The shot noise is white (ie, equal energy in every 1Hz-wide frequency band regardless of the exact frequency). In the time domain it can be modelled as AWGN (Additive White Gaussian Noise). I don't think I understand what it is you don't understand ;-). Could you be more specific ? JDB. -- LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files. http://www.lartmaker.nl/ From clock at twibright.com Tue Aug 29 14:54:55 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 15:54:55 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] BER plot ? In-Reply-To: References: <20060828182322.GA4665@kestrel.twibright.com> <20060829081430.GB29915@kestrel.twibright.com> Message-ID: <20060829135455.GA31842@kestrel.twibright.com> On Tue, Aug 29, 2006 at 01:30:12PM +0200, J.D. Bakker wrote: > Karel wrote: > >On Tue, Aug 29, 2006 at 12:33:07AM +0200, J.D. Bakker wrote: > > > so, > >> > >> in = sqrt(2*(1.6e-19)*(20e6)*(80e-6)) = 23e-9 A = 23nA > >> > >> The daylight sensitivity of any Si PIN detector is ~0.5 A/W, so this > >> corresponds to ~11nW, or 10log(11e-9/1e-3) = -49.5dBm. This is a LOT > > [as I wrote later last night, this should be 46nW] > > >The problem here is, 11nW of what? Do you mean RMS of immediate incident optical power on the detector? CL< > > What do you mean, 'of what' ? The shot noise is white (ie, equal > energy in every 1Hz-wide frequency band regardless of the exact > frequency). In the time domain it can be modelled as AWGN (Additive > White Gaussian Noise). > > I don't think I understand what it is you don't understand ;-). Could > you be more specific ? > > JDB. > -- > LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files. > http://www.lartmaker.nl/ > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From jdb at lartmaker.nl Tue Aug 29 15:40:31 2006 From: jdb at lartmaker.nl (J.D. Bakker) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 16:40:31 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] BER plot ? In-Reply-To: <20060829135455.GA31842@kestrel.twibright.com> References: <20060828182322.GA4665@kestrel.twibright.com> <20060829081430.GB29915@kestrel.twibright.com> <20060829135455.GA31842@kestrel.twibright.com> Message-ID: [I'm still not sure what it is you don't understand. If what I write below isn't it, could you please try to explain to me in more than one sentence ? I'm not very good at mind reading these days] Karel wrote: >On Tue, Aug 29, 2006 at 01:30:12PM +0200, J.D. Bakker wrote: >> Karel wrote: >> >On Tue, Aug 29, 2006 at 12:33:07AM +0200, J.D. Bakker wrote: >> > > so, >> >> >> >> in = sqrt(2*(1.6e-19)*(20e6)*(80e-6)) = 23e-9 A = 23nA >> >> >> >> The daylight sensitivity of any Si PIN detector is ~0.5 A/W, so this >> >> corresponds to ~11nW, or 10log(11e-9/1e-3) = -49.5dBm. This is a LOT >> >> [as I wrote later last night, this should be 46nW] >> >> >The problem here is, 11nW of what? [for the archives: this should be 46nW. See last night's other posts] >Do you mean RMS of immediate incident optical power on the detector? The shot noise is *equivalent* to 46nW of band-limited immediate incident optical power on the detector. There is no way the detector electronics can distinguish between electrical and optical noise, any more than a human in a box can distinguish between gravity and being accelerated through space at 9.81 m/s^2. During the day, much more light/energy will hit the photodiode from daylight than from the remote transmitter. For all practical purposes, this daylight can be assumed to be DC. I assume (and have not yet measured!!) that the intensity during a bright day will be around 1000 lux, and, according to the datasheet, 1000 lux into a SFH203 produces around 80uA photocurrent, again, DC. If this current was *just* DC, we would not have to worry, a simple low-pass filter would get rid of it. HOWEVER, when a DC current flows through a semiconductor junction (like a photodiode), it will not remain DC, but it will cause current fluctuations called shot noise (gross oversimplification; Google for "shot noise" for more info). [As an aside, it appears I was wrong when I said that shot noise was Gaussian; the mechanisms that cause it appear to make the distribution Poisson. This does not matter right now, and if the shot noise current is large enough, as it is here, Poisson closely approaches Gaussian anyway] So now we have a DC current with an AC current superimposed (added) to it. The *average* of the AC current is zero, but the *power* is given by in = sqrt(2*q*B*id) in is the shot noise q is the charge of an electron (1.6e-19 C) B is the measurement (receiver) bandwidth id is the DC photocurrent The measurement bandwidth is in there because, like resistor (Johnson) noise, shot noise is white, which means it has a flat power spectral density. So, like resistor noise, you need to know the measurement bandwidth if you want to know the signal power/intensity. When you double the bandwidth, you double the signal power (since the frequency range over which you sum/integrate the noise power doubles). The intensity (current, in this case) follows the square root of the power: double the bandwidth and the noise current is multiplied by sqrt(2). Again, with only daylight on the detector, we have this shot noise. In the case I presented, the shot noise calculates to 23nA. Now, if you had a lamp which produces band-limited optical white noise, 46nW of immediate incident optical power from this lamp would produce *the same amount of noise* in the photodetector. Does this make things clear ? If not, please let me know *exactly* what you don't understand. JDB. -- LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files. http://www.lartmaker.nl/ From clock at twibright.com Tue Aug 29 19:36:09 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 20:36:09 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] BER plot ? In-Reply-To: References: <20060828182322.GA4665@kestrel.twibright.com> <20060829081430.GB29915@kestrel.twibright.com> <20060829135455.GA31842@kestrel.twibright.com> Message-ID: <20060829183609.GA5633@kestrel.twibright.com> On Tue, Aug 29, 2006 at 04:40:31PM +0200, J.D. Bakker wrote: > [I'm still not sure what it is you don't understand. If what I write > below isn't it, could you please try to explain to me in more than > one sentence ? I'm not very good at mind reading these days] > > Karel wrote: > >On Tue, Aug 29, 2006 at 01:30:12PM +0200, J.D. Bakker wrote: > >> Karel wrote: > >> >On Tue, Aug 29, 2006 at 12:33:07AM +0200, J.D. Bakker wrote: > >> > > so, > >> >> > >> >> in = sqrt(2*(1.6e-19)*(20e6)*(80e-6)) = 23e-9 A = 23nA > >> >> > >> >> The daylight sensitivity of any Si PIN detector is ~0.5 A/W, so this > >> >> corresponds to ~11nW, or 10log(11e-9/1e-3) = -49.5dBm. This is a LOT > >> > >> [as I wrote later last night, this should be 46nW] > >> > >> >The problem here is, 11nW of what? > > [for the archives: this should be 46nW. See last night's other posts] > > >Do you mean RMS of immediate incident optical power on the detector? > > The shot noise is *equivalent* to 46nW of band-limited immediate > incident optical power on the detector. There is no way the detector I understand how you measure optical power with continuous light. But how do you measure it with AC signal? You take RMS of the deviation from average? CL< > electronics can distinguish between electrical and optical noise, any > more than a human in a box can distinguish between gravity and being > accelerated through space at 9.81 m/s^2. > > During the day, much more light/energy will hit the photodiode from > daylight than from the remote transmitter. For all practical > purposes, this daylight can be assumed to be DC. I assume (and have > not yet measured!!) that the intensity during a bright day will be > around 1000 lux, and, according to the datasheet, 1000 lux into a > SFH203 produces around 80uA photocurrent, again, DC. > > If this current was *just* DC, we would not have to worry, a simple > low-pass filter would get rid of it. > > HOWEVER, when a DC current flows through a semiconductor junction > (like a photodiode), it will not remain DC, but it will cause current > fluctuations called shot noise (gross oversimplification; Google for > "shot noise" for more info). > > [As an aside, it appears I was wrong when I said that shot noise was > Gaussian; the mechanisms that cause it appear to make the > distribution Poisson. This does not matter right now, and if the shot > noise current is large enough, as it is here, Poisson closely > approaches Gaussian anyway] > > So now we have a DC current with an AC current superimposed (added) > to it. The *average* of the AC current is zero, but the *power* is > given by > > in = sqrt(2*q*B*id) > > in is the shot noise > q is the charge of an electron (1.6e-19 C) > B is the measurement (receiver) bandwidth > id is the DC photocurrent > > The measurement bandwidth is in there because, like resistor > (Johnson) noise, shot noise is white, which means it has a flat power > spectral density. So, like resistor noise, you need to know the > measurement bandwidth if you want to know the signal power/intensity. > When you double the bandwidth, you double the signal power (since the > frequency range over which you sum/integrate the noise power > doubles). The intensity (current, in this case) follows the square > root of the power: double the bandwidth and the noise current is > multiplied by sqrt(2). > > Again, with only daylight on the detector, we have this shot noise. > In the case I presented, the shot noise calculates to 23nA. Now, if > you had a lamp which produces band-limited optical white noise, 46nW > of immediate incident optical power from this lamp would produce *the > same amount of noise* in the photodetector. > > Does this make things clear ? If not, please let me know *exactly* > what you don't understand. > > JDB. > -- > LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files. > http://www.lartmaker.nl/ > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From clock at twibright.com Tue Aug 29 20:11:25 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 21:11:25 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] BER plot ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20060829191125.GA9075@kestrel.twibright.com> On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 04:35:57PM +0200, J.D. Bakker wrote: > Hi Clock, hi all, > > On page 21 of > > http://ronja.twibright.com/msmt/example.pdf > > linked from > > http://ronja.twibright.com/testing/ber_tetrapolis_bertest.php > > a SNR vs BER plot is shown. What is the basis (formula, reference) > behind this plot ? It appears overly optimistic. For example, in the OK now I think I understand again what an optical SNR is - it is the ratio of power of incomping optical signal and power of incoming optical noise. These powers are calculated as root mean square of deviations of the incident optical power from average. The formula is y=10*log10(-qnorm(x)) (see msmt/ber.r): sub="This is a reference diagram that doesn't depend on input data." c=seq(-0.4,-18, length=seqlen) c=10^c d=10*log10(-qnorm(c)) old=par(lab=c(19,20,7)) plot(c,d, type="l", log="x", ylab="SNR [dB]", xlab="BER", tck=1, main="Signal to Noise Ratio (SNR) vs. Bit Error Rate (BER)", las=1, lwd=3, sub=sub) qnorm is quantile function of normal distribution. The logic behind is: the quantile funtion says for a given probability how big the noise must be to generate error with this probability. The manchester is sampled in one point. If the noise in this point is bigger than the signal in one direction, then error occurs. If it's smaller or bigger in the other direction, error doesn't occur. The values compared are immediate optical powers - these fight against each other. RMS of the manchester is equivalent to peak value. RMS of the Gaussian is equivalent to one sigma. the 10*log10 comes from the fact that when the input power gets 10x bigger, decibels of optical power increase by 10dB. It's unlike radio systems - in radio system it would be 20*log10, because when input power gets 10x bigger, the voltage in comparator (which is what matters in the fight) gets only approx. 3x bigger. We can say that the semiconductor detector with preamplifier squares the incoming AC optical power by two. If you increase incident optical power by two, the output electrical power will be 4 times bigger. CL< > plot a BER of 1e-6 is achieved with a SNR of less than 7dB, whereas > according to my textbook [1] at least 10.5dB is required. Others, > like http://www.sss-mag.com/cber.html , seem to agree. > > What gives ? > > JDB. > > [1] Leon W. Couch II, "Digital and analog communications systems", > fourth edition > -- > LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files. > http://www.lartmaker.nl/ > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From clock at twibright.com Tue Aug 29 23:13:48 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 00:13:48 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Speed question In-Reply-To: References: <20060602175806.GA23785@Galilei.galilei.homelinux.net> <20060821124718.GB8179@kestrel.twibright.com> <20060821141313.GA28599@kestrel.twibright.com> <20060828204158.GA26248@kestrel.twibright.com> Message-ID: <20060829221348.GA10195@kestrel.twibright.com> On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 11:38:50PM +0200, J.D. Bakker wrote: > >On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 07:35:04PM +0200, J.D. Bakker wrote: > > > Here's an alternative suggestion: instead of the AC-coupled NPN > >> differential pair input limiter you're using, how about a DC-coupled > >> PNP version of the same circuit ? With a potentiometer to the base of > > > >How? > > Replace the input (Q1 and Q2 and related passives) of the transmitter > with something like > > http://www.lartmaker.nl/pnp-difflimiter.png The only substantial difference between existing wiring and your proposal is that the duty cycle cutting in my one is done after the transistors and in your one before them. The result depends on slew rate of the signal. If you replace the cable between Twister and TX in your wiring, the slew rate at the cutting point will be different (different attenuation of HF), while in mine it stays the same because the signal will be already limitted and any influences of the cable obliterated. So I see just disadvantages in your one. CL< > > Now, > > - set the voltage divider on the base of the left transistor to ~6V > - set the shared emitter resistor so that a current of ~1mA flows > through it (or, better, use a current source so you're immune to > variations in V+) > - set the collector resistor of the right transistor so that it drops > 5V (or whatever the inverter supply voltage is) at 1mA. > > This yields a fast limiting amplifier. With the pot you can set the > threshold, and since the input signal is band-limited, varying the > threshold will change the duty cycle. For a fancier control, you > could add a feedback loop which monitors a low pass filtered copy of > the input to the inverter. > > Whaddayathink ? > > JDB. > -- > LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files. > http://www.lartmaker.nl/ > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From clock at twibright.com Tue Aug 29 23:16:15 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 00:16:15 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Dalsi linka In-Reply-To: <200608282346.11750@centrum.cz> References: <200608282101.30699@centrum.cz> <20060828200129.GA13493@kestrel.twibright.com> <200608282346.11750@centrum.cz> Message-ID: <20060829221615.GB10195@kestrel.twibright.com> On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 11:46:33PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote: > Ten venkovni UTP ma drat 0.62mm a dvojitou "buzirku" okolo "dratu". Taky > "buzirka" okolo dratu je silnejsi. A je na tom natisteno "outdoor" nebo to vyrobce v katalogu uvadi? Aby to nebyla nejaka ustni tradice - zatim se mi te legende o existenci venkovniho UTP/STP moc verit nechce. CL< > Taky to ma dvojitej plast obal. > Vim, ze existuje i STP verze. > Ja to mam od znameho....kde to sehnal..nevim. > Ale mam dojem, ze jsem to videl v katalogu Alfatroniku. > Martin > > > ______________________________________________________________ > > Od: clock at twibright.com > > Komu: Twibright Ronja > > Datum: 28.08.2006 22:02 > > P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka > > > >On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 09:01:06PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote: > >> > Vse je v provedeni venkovnim. > >> Ano, existuje i UTP pro venkovni provedeni. > > > >Can you get STP for outdoor? If yes, where? Or at least where you can get > >the outdoor UTP? > > > >CL< > >> Filtr do 40MHz proti ruseni jsem samozrejme udelal. > >> I kdyz si myslim, ze za 78S15 nic "neleze" (meril jsem to) . > >> Martin > >> > ______________________________________________________________ > >> > Od: clock at twibright.com > >> > Komu: Twibright Ronja > >> > Datum: 28.08.2006 17:16 > >> > P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka > >> > > >> >On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 03:49:20PM +0200, Cipis wrote: > >> >> Mno, ten chlap by pot?eboval do dr?ky, to je fakt reprezentace jak bl?zen. > >> >> S t?m datov?m kabelem to nen? a? tak hork? - na t? posledn? fotce hromosvod > jen k????, ostatn? jsem moc ne?tudoval. > >> >> Sp?? to vypad? d?sn? hnusn?, na providera, kter? to d?l? profesion?ln?. I j? > bych dal ten kousek do li?ty a od zdi k t?m cajk?m bu? krk nebo takov? ten > omot?vac? nesmysl. > >> > > >> >For ordinary Ronja it would be just esthetical matter - if the coaxial cable is > >> >outdoor it doesn't matter if it's just thrown on the roof. ?Even if it's not > >> >outdoor it affects just lifetime, not performance. ?Anyway if you install a TV > >> >antenna you also throw the cable on a roof and don't use any plastic ducts. > >> > > >> >RyS is using TP. TP can rot through on the weather and the signal inside UTP > >> >can be affected electromagnetically by pooling water even without insulation > >> >breach. ?That's why I didn't put TP cable into the guide. In case of a TP cable > >> >plastic ducts can have a technical benefit. > >> > > >> >When we installed Ronja we used outdoor coaxials and left them just lying on > >> >the tin roof. Sometimes we used plastic ties to bundle cables together. > >> > > >> >CL< > >> > > > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Ronja mailing list > >> Ronja at lists.pointless.net > >> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Ronja mailing list > >Ronja at lists.pointless.net > >http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From clock at twibright.com Tue Aug 29 23:19:16 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 00:19:16 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] BER plot ? In-Reply-To: References: <20060828182322.GA4665@kestrel.twibright.com> Message-ID: <20060829221916.GC10195@kestrel.twibright.com> > Comms engineers always add a margin on top of the link budget; this > margin usually lies between 10 and 30dB depending on a gazillion > factors. It's often funny to see project reports where an engineer > has spent a month getting front-end noise from 1.5dB to 1.4dB, and > then finishes by saying "...and we've added 35dB margin" ;-) (not > that I don't see the value in optimizing front-ends, mind you). front-end back-end forehand backhand - which one is which one? That reminds me the compilers lecture :-) CL< From clock at twibright.com Tue Aug 29 23:26:25 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 00:26:25 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] BER plot ? In-Reply-To: References: <20060828182322.GA4665@kestrel.twibright.com> <20060829081430.GB29915@kestrel.twibright.com> Message-ID: <20060829222625.GD10195@kestrel.twibright.com> On Tue, Aug 29, 2006 at 01:30:12PM +0200, J.D. Bakker wrote: > Karel wrote: > >On Tue, Aug 29, 2006 at 12:33:07AM +0200, J.D. Bakker wrote: > > > so, > >> > >> in = sqrt(2*(1.6e-19)*(20e6)*(80e-6)) = 23e-9 A = 23nA > >> > >> The daylight sensitivity of any Si PIN detector is ~0.5 A/W, so this > >> corresponds to ~11nW, or 10log(11e-9/1e-3) = -49.5dBm. This is a LOT > > [as I wrote later last night, this should be 46nW] > > >The problem here is, 11nW of what? > > What do you mean, 'of what' ? The shot noise is white (ie, equal > energy in every 1Hz-wide frequency band regardless of the exact > frequency). In the time domain it can be modelled as AWGN (Additive > White Gaussian Noise). > > I don't think I understand what it is you don't understand ;-). Could > you be more specific ? I already understand - I meant was it optical power or electrical? Peak, RMS, average or whatever? I just forgot the "R" in RMS so wondered why there should be some mean square that would come out in some power^2 units. Now I remembered and it's OK again ;-) I just had a mental block :) http://www.archive.org/download/leda009/18.mental.ogg I've got a mental block It's on the verge of pain Can't speak a word can't think a thought But I try again and again I take some aid to clear my head But still a thought remains I wish I were away somewhere >From all that life contains I can't take any more The weight's too much to shoulder I think that I'll have had my pill Before I get much older Each and every day's the same Could it be small wonder And life seems to slip away I feel I'm going under I've got a mental block That rips my mind like thunder I've got a mental block That keeps me dragged down under May be one day I see the way The world is as been told me But for now I don't know how But I can judge more coldly I can't take any more The weight's too much to shoulder I think that I'll have had my pill Before I get much older I've got a mental block That rips my mind like thunder I've got a mental block That keeps me dragged down under Under under under CL< > > JDB. > -- > LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files. > http://www.lartmaker.nl/ > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From kubajz at kbx.cz Tue Aug 29 23:33:44 2006 From: kubajz at kbx.cz (Jakub Sykora) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 00:33:44 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Dalsi linka In-Reply-To: <20060829221615.GB10195@kestrel.twibright.com> References: <200608282101.30699@centrum.cz> <20060828200129.GA13493@kestrel.twibright.com> <200608282346.11750@centrum.cz> <20060829221615.GB10195@kestrel.twibright.com> Message-ID: <44F4C0C8.7060706@kbx.cz> Mno kabely se takovy urcite delaji - staci se podivat treba do katalogu Beldenu na kbaely DataTuff, ktere jsou pro prumyslove uziti a jejich vrchni slupka se dela v provedenich: odolne proti UV, proti Mazivum, proti Chemikaliim atp... Ale nechci ani vedet kolik toho stoji metr... K Karel Kulhavy napsal(a): > On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 11:46:33PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote: >> Ten venkovni UTP ma drat 0.62mm a dvojitou "buzirku" okolo "dratu". Taky >> "buzirka" okolo dratu je silnejsi. > > A je na tom natisteno "outdoor" nebo to vyrobce v katalogu uvadi? Aby > to nebyla nejaka ustni tradice - zatim se mi te legende o existenci > venkovniho UTP/STP moc verit nechce. > > CL< >> Taky to ma dvojitej plast obal. >> Vim, ze existuje i STP verze. >> Ja to mam od znameho....kde to sehnal..nevim. >> Ale mam dojem, ze jsem to videl v katalogu Alfatroniku. >> Martin >> >> >> ______________________________________________________________ >>> Od: clock na twibright.com >>> Komu: Twibright Ronja >>> Datum: 28.08.2006 22:02 >>> P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka >>> >>> On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 09:01:06PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote: >>>>> Vse je v provedeni venkovnim. >>>> Ano, existuje i UTP pro venkovni provedeni. >>> Can you get STP for outdoor? If yes, where? Or at least where you can get >>> the outdoor UTP? >>> >>> CL< >>>> Filtr do 40MHz proti ruseni jsem samozrejme udelal. >>>> I kdyz si myslim, ze za 78S15 nic "neleze" (meril jsem to) . >>>> Martin >>>>> ______________________________________________________________ >>>>> Od: clock na twibright.com >>>>> Komu: Twibright Ronja >>>>> Datum: 28.08.2006 17:16 >>>>> P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 03:49:20PM +0200, Cipis wrote: >>>>>> Mno, ten chlap by pot?eboval do dr?ky, to je fakt reprezentace jak bl?zen. >>>>>> S t?m datov?m kabelem to nen? a? tak hork? - na t? posledn? fotce hromosvod > jen k????, ostatn? jsem moc ne?tudoval. >>>>>> Sp?? to vypad? d?sn? hnusn?, na providera, kter? to d?l? profesion?ln?. I j? > bych dal ten kousek do li?ty a od zdi k t?m cajk?m bu? krk nebo takov? ten > omot?vac? nesmysl. >>>>> For ordinary Ronja it would be just esthetical matter - if the coaxial cable is >>>>> outdoor it doesn't matter if it's just thrown on the roof. Even if it's not >>>>> outdoor it affects just lifetime, not performance. Anyway if you install a TV >>>>> antenna you also throw the cable on a roof and don't use any plastic ducts. >>>>> >>>>> RyS is using TP. TP can rot through on the weather and the signal inside UTP >>>>> can be affected electromagnetically by pooling water even without insulation >>>>> breach. That's why I didn't put TP cable into the guide. In case of a TP cable >>>>> plastic ducts can have a technical benefit. >>>>> >>>>> When we installed Ronja we used outdoor coaxials and left them just lying on >>>>> the tin roof. Sometimes we used plastic ties to bundle cables together. >>>>> >>>>> CL< >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Ronja mailing list >>>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net >>>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Ronja mailing list >>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net >>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja >>> >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> Ronja mailing list >> Ronja na lists.pointless.net >> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja na lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja -- Jakub S?kora email: kubajz na kbx.cz <') ICQ: 68976632 ( =- mobil: +420 777 594 201 '' ------------- dal?? ??st --------------- Netextov? p??loha byla odstran?na... Jm?no: kubajz.vcf Typ: text/x-vcard Velikost: 265 bytes Popis: [??dn? popis nen? k dispozici] Url : http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20060830/3a06c9fd/attachment.vcf From clock at twibright.com Tue Aug 29 23:50:20 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 00:50:20 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] BER plot ? In-Reply-To: References: <20060828182322.GA4665@kestrel.twibright.com> <20060829081430.GB29915@kestrel.twibright.com> <20060829135455.GA31842@kestrel.twibright.com> Message-ID: <20060829225020.GE10195@kestrel.twibright.com> On Tue, Aug 29, 2006 at 04:40:31PM +0200, J.D. Bakker wrote: > [I'm still not sure what it is you don't understand. If what I write > below isn't it, could you please try to explain to me in more than > one sentence ? I'm not very good at mind reading these days] LOL I wonder what you would read from my mind if you could mind read :) Probably a lot of AWGN (Additive White Gaussian Noise), then some image fragments of handsome boys. Then a vivid imagination of a city with high buildings whose roofs are linked in a network of rope bridges with wooden plank floors (like this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capilano_Suspension_Bridge, but with completely flat floor and the planks laid perpendicularly to what's shown in the picture) which I am riding on my flex skateboard, enjoying the sound of wheels on planks with little gaps in between. Then an infinite snowy slope where it's impossible to crash into anything, me riding it down on a snowboard and experimenting to ultimately understand the snowboard. CL< > > Karel wrote: > >On Tue, Aug 29, 2006 at 01:30:12PM +0200, J.D. Bakker wrote: > >> Karel wrote: > >> >On Tue, Aug 29, 2006 at 12:33:07AM +0200, J.D. Bakker wrote: > >> > > so, > >> >> > >> >> in = sqrt(2*(1.6e-19)*(20e6)*(80e-6)) = 23e-9 A = 23nA > >> >> > >> >> The daylight sensitivity of any Si PIN detector is ~0.5 A/W, so this > >> >> corresponds to ~11nW, or 10log(11e-9/1e-3) = -49.5dBm. This is a LOT > >> > >> [as I wrote later last night, this should be 46nW] > >> > >> >The problem here is, 11nW of what? > > [for the archives: this should be 46nW. See last night's other posts] > > >Do you mean RMS of immediate incident optical power on the detector? > > The shot noise is *equivalent* to 46nW of band-limited immediate > incident optical power on the detector. There is no way the detector > electronics can distinguish between electrical and optical noise, any > more than a human in a box can distinguish between gravity and being > accelerated through space at 9.81 m/s^2. > > During the day, much more light/energy will hit the photodiode from > daylight than from the remote transmitter. For all practical > purposes, this daylight can be assumed to be DC. I assume (and have > not yet measured!!) that the intensity during a bright day will be > around 1000 lux, and, according to the datasheet, 1000 lux into a > SFH203 produces around 80uA photocurrent, again, DC. > > If this current was *just* DC, we would not have to worry, a simple > low-pass filter would get rid of it. > > HOWEVER, when a DC current flows through a semiconductor junction > (like a photodiode), it will not remain DC, but it will cause current > fluctuations called shot noise (gross oversimplification; Google for > "shot noise" for more info). > > [As an aside, it appears I was wrong when I said that shot noise was > Gaussian; the mechanisms that cause it appear to make the > distribution Poisson. This does not matter right now, and if the shot > noise current is large enough, as it is here, Poisson closely > approaches Gaussian anyway] > > So now we have a DC current with an AC current superimposed (added) > to it. The *average* of the AC current is zero, but the *power* is > given by > > in = sqrt(2*q*B*id) > > in is the shot noise > q is the charge of an electron (1.6e-19 C) > B is the measurement (receiver) bandwidth > id is the DC photocurrent > > The measurement bandwidth is in there because, like resistor > (Johnson) noise, shot noise is white, which means it has a flat power > spectral density. So, like resistor noise, you need to know the > measurement bandwidth if you want to know the signal power/intensity. > When you double the bandwidth, you double the signal power (since the > frequency range over which you sum/integrate the noise power > doubles). The intensity (current, in this case) follows the square > root of the power: double the bandwidth and the noise current is > multiplied by sqrt(2). > > Again, with only daylight on the detector, we have this shot noise. > In the case I presented, the shot noise calculates to 23nA. Now, if > you had a lamp which produces band-limited optical white noise, 46nW > of immediate incident optical power from this lamp would produce *the > same amount of noise* in the photodetector. > > Does this make things clear ? If not, please let me know *exactly* > what you don't understand. > > JDB. > -- > LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files. > http://www.lartmaker.nl/ > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From clock at twibright.com Tue Aug 29 23:53:15 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 00:53:15 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] BER plot ? In-Reply-To: References: <20060828182322.GA4665@kestrel.twibright.com> Message-ID: <20060829225315.GA18207@kestrel.twibright.com> On Tue, Aug 29, 2006 at 12:33:07AM +0200, J.D. Bakker wrote: > [This is mostly off the top of my head; I might have missed a few > factors here and there. Corrections are welcome] > > >Hehe now I realize I can't even imagine how a signal to noise ratio > >in an optical system should be calculated. > > Mostly the same as any other communications system -- with a link > budget analysis. The only other communication system I know is a thin string with two plastic cups at the end. We tried it on a road in a forest whether it can work on longer distance, but it doesn't. Only the lowest frequencies pass through. The link budget was like 1USD or so ;-) CL< > > Let's say you have a 10Mbps Manchester signal into a shot noise > limited receiver, and you want to know the minimum input power for > 1e-9 BER. > > Assuming ideal filtering, http://www.sss-mag.com/cber.html (and > others) say this takes an Eb/No of 12.5dB. Now, > > C/N = Eb/No * (R/B) > > where > > C/N is the Carrier (or signal) to Noise ratio > R is the bit/symbol rate of the transmitted signal > B is the receiver bandwidth > > Manchester encoding with rectangular pulses requires a minimal > bandwidth B of 2R, so C/N = 12.5 + 10*log(10e6/20e6) = 12.5 - 3 = > 9.5dB > > How much noise does the receiver, um, receive ? Assuming that: > > - the *only* noise in the receiver is shot noise (not realistic) > - the receiver uses an unmodified SFH203 photodiode > - daylight is 1000 lux > > The incident daylight produces 80uA of photocurrent (source: SFH203 > datasheet). According to The Art of Electronics (and others, > including > http://optoelectronics.perkinelmer.com/content/whitepapers/NoiseandStabilityPINDetectors.pdf), > the shot noise current is > > in = sqrt(2*q*B*id) > > (I've ignored dark current, since it's way << the photocurrent) > > in is the shot noise > q is the charge of an electron (1.6e-19 C) > B is the measurement (receiver) bandwidth > id is the DC photocurrent > > so, > > in = sqrt(2*(1.6e-19)*(20e6)*(80e-6)) = 23e-9 A = 23nA > > The daylight sensitivity of any Si PIN detector is ~0.5 A/W, so this > corresponds to ~11nW, or 10log(11e-9/1e-3) = -49.5dBm. This is a LOT > of base noise for a communication system; the noise floor of an > 802.11 system lies between -90...-100dBm. > > All this means that the absolute minimum received power in our ideal > system would have to be -49.5 + 9.5 = -40dBm, or 100nW. Now add > receiver noise, non-ideal filtering and atmospherical attenuation and > you'll end up nearer 1..10uW. > > More information can be found at http://www.sss-mag.com/ebn0.html , > or by googling for "link budget". > > Comms engineers always add a margin on top of the link budget; this > margin usually lies between 10 and 30dB depending on a gazillion > factors. It's often funny to see project reports where an engineer > has spent a month getting front-end noise from 1.5dB to 1.4dB, and > then finishes by saying "...and we've added 35dB margin" ;-) (not > that I don't see the value in optimizing front-ends, mind you). > > Questions ? Suggestions ? Flames ? > > JDB. > -- > LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files. > http://www.lartmaker.nl/ > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From jdb at lartmaker.nl Wed Aug 30 00:10:44 2006 From: jdb at lartmaker.nl (J.D. Bakker) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 01:10:44 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] BER plot ? In-Reply-To: <20060829222625.GD10195@kestrel.twibright.com> References: <20060828182322.GA4665@kestrel.twibright.com> <20060829081430.GB29915@kestrel.twibright.com> <20060829222625.GD10195@kestrel.twibright.com> Message-ID: >On Tue, Aug 29, 2006 at 01:30:12PM +0200, J.D. Bakker wrote: >> Karel wrote: >> >On Tue, Aug 29, 2006 at 12:33:07AM +0200, J.D. Bakker wrote: >> > > so, >> >> >> >> in = sqrt(2*(1.6e-19)*(20e6)*(80e-6)) = 23e-9 A = 23nA >> >> >> >> The daylight sensitivity of any Si PIN detector is ~0.5 A/W, so this >> >> corresponds to ~11nW, or 10log(11e-9/1e-3) = -49.5dBm. This is a LOT >> >> [as I wrote later last night, this should be 46nW] >> >> >The problem here is, 11nW of what? >> >> What do you mean, 'of what' ? The shot noise is white (ie, equal >> energy in every 1Hz-wide frequency band regardless of the exact >> frequency). In the time domain it can be modelled as AWGN (Additive >> White Gaussian Noise). >> >> I don't think I understand what it is you don't understand ;-). Could >> you be more specific ? > >I already understand - I meant was it optical power or electrical? Peak, >RMS, average or whatever? The 23nA RMS shot noise is electrical. The conversion efficiency of a Si photodiode is about 0.5 A (electrical) per W (optical). So, 23nA electrical current corresponds to (23e-9 / 0.5) = 46nW optical power. Clear now ? >I just forgot the "R" in RMS so wondered why there should be some mean square >that would come out in some power^2 units. Now I remembered and it's OK >again ;-) I just had a mental block :) > >http://www.archive.org/download/leda009/18.mental.ogg Who's this then ? Sounds a bit like The Smiths. Giggle is no help at all. JDB. [rather appropriate song though, thanks] -- LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files. http://www.lartmaker.nl/ From jdb at lartmaker.nl Wed Aug 30 00:22:13 2006 From: jdb at lartmaker.nl (J.D. Bakker) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 01:22:13 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Speed question In-Reply-To: <20060829221348.GA10195@kestrel.twibright.com> References: <20060602175806.GA23785@Galilei.galilei.homelinux.net> <20060821124718.GB8179@kestrel.twibright.com> <20060821141313.GA28599@kestrel.twibright.com> <20060828204158.GA26248@kestrel.twibright.com> <20060829221348.GA10195@kestrel.twibright.com> Message-ID: >On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 11:38:50PM +0200, J.D. Bakker wrote: >> >On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 07:35:04PM +0200, J.D. Bakker wrote: >> > > Here's an alternative suggestion: instead of the AC-coupled NPN >> >> differential pair input limiter you're using, how about a DC-coupled >> >> PNP version of the same circuit ? With a potentiometer to the base of >> > >> >How? >> >> Replace the input (Q1 and Q2 and related passives) of the transmitter >> with something like >> >> http://www.lartmaker.nl/pnp-difflimiter.png > >The only substantial difference between existing wiring and your proposal >is that the duty cycle cutting in my one is done after the transistors and >in your one before them. > >The result depends on slew rate of the signal. If you replace the >cable between Twister and TX in your wiring, the slew rate at the >cutting point will be different (different attenuation of HF), while >in mine it stays the same because the signal will be already >limitted and any influences of the cable obliterated. (a) you'd have to go from tens of meters of very good cable to tens of meters of very shitty cable to notice more than a few % difference. (b) I did suggest a feedback loop, no ? >So I see just disadvantages in your one. Then by all means keep your own circuit ;-) JDB, -- LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files. http://www.lartmaker.nl/ From clock at twibright.com Wed Aug 30 10:08:27 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 11:08:27 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Speed question In-Reply-To: References: <20060821124718.GB8179@kestrel.twibright.com> <20060821141313.GA28599@kestrel.twibright.com> <20060828204158.GA26248@kestrel.twibright.com> <20060829221348.GA10195@kestrel.twibright.com> Message-ID: <20060830090827.GB14930@kestrel.twibright.com> On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 01:22:13AM +0200, J.D. Bakker wrote: > >On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 11:38:50PM +0200, J.D. Bakker wrote: > >> >On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 07:35:04PM +0200, J.D. Bakker wrote: > >> > > Here's an alternative suggestion: instead of the AC-coupled NPN > >> >> differential pair input limiter you're using, how about a DC-coupled > >> >> PNP version of the same circuit ? With a potentiometer to the base of > >> > > >> >How? > >> > >> Replace the input (Q1 and Q2 and related passives) of the transmitter > >> with something like > >> > >> http://www.lartmaker.nl/pnp-difflimiter.png > > > >The only substantial difference between existing wiring and your proposal > >is that the duty cycle cutting in my one is done after the transistors and > >in your one before them. > > > >The result depends on slew rate of the signal. If you replace the > >cable between Twister and TX in your wiring, the slew rate at the > >cutting point will be different (different attenuation of HF), while > >in mine it stays the same because the signal will be already > >limitted and any influences of the cable obliterated. > > (a) you'd have to go from tens of meters of very good cable to tens > of meters of very shitty cable to notice more than a few % difference. I used 30m of audio grade cable at home and it was running just fine :) > (b) I did suggest a feedback loop, no ? Adds complexity which is IMHO unnecessary. There's another problem - the edges from the cable are jagged because of reflections. When you hit the notch, then your circuit will generate a horrible jitter. Of course we could prescribe an oxygen-free teflon-based mahogany-clad gold-connectored premium royal grade **** cable to achieve a perfect impedance matching but the existing way people can take any impedance-mismatched or unknown-impedance rag and it will run just fine for them. CL< > > >So I see just disadvantages in your one. > > Then by all means keep your own circuit ;-) > > JDB, > -- > LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files. > http://www.lartmaker.nl/ > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From clock at twibright.com Wed Aug 30 10:49:23 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 11:49:23 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] BER plot ? In-Reply-To: References: <20060828182322.GA4665@kestrel.twibright.com> <20060829081430.GB29915@kestrel.twibright.com> <20060829222625.GD10195@kestrel.twibright.com> Message-ID: <20060830094923.GA3247@kestrel.twibright.com> On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 01:10:44AM +0200, J.D. Bakker wrote: [...] > >I just forgot the "R" in RMS so wondered why there should be some mean square > >that would come out in some power^2 units. Now I remembered and it's OK > >again ;-) I just had a mental block :) > > > >http://www.archive.org/download/leda009/18.mental.ogg > > Who's this then ? Sounds a bit like The Smiths. Giggle is no help at all. The Fire Dept., search for mental block on archive.org. The remaining tracks are IMHO shit, but this one is good :) CL< > > JDB. > [rather appropriate song though, thanks] From clock at twibright.com Wed Aug 30 10:50:02 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 11:50:02 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Dalsi linka In-Reply-To: <44F4C0C8.7060706@kbx.cz> References: <200608282101.30699@centrum.cz> <20060828200129.GA13493@kestrel.twibright.com> <200608282346.11750@centrum.cz> <20060829221615.GB10195@kestrel.twibright.com> <44F4C0C8.7060706@kbx.cz> Message-ID: <20060830095002.GB3247@kestrel.twibright.com> On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 12:33:44AM +0200, Jakub Sykora wrote: > Mno kabely se takovy urcite delaji - staci se podivat treba do katalogu > Beldenu na kbaely DataTuff, ktere jsou pro prumyslove uziti a jejich > vrchni slupka se dela v provedenich: odolne proti UV, proti Mazivum, > proti Chemikaliim atp... Delaj taky odolnou proti Chuckovi Norrisovi a Jacku Bauerovi? CL< > > Ale nechci ani vedet kolik toho stoji metr... > > K > > Karel Kulhavy napsal(a): > >On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 11:46:33PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote: > >>Ten venkovni UTP ma drat 0.62mm a dvojitou "buzirku" okolo "dratu". Taky > >>"buzirka" okolo dratu je silnejsi. > > > >A je na tom natisteno "outdoor" nebo to vyrobce v katalogu uvadi? Aby > >to nebyla nejaka ustni tradice - zatim se mi te legende o existenci > >venkovniho UTP/STP moc verit nechce. > > > >CL< > >>Taky to ma dvojitej plast obal. > >>Vim, ze existuje i STP verze. > >>Ja to mam od znameho....kde to sehnal..nevim. > >>Ale mam dojem, ze jsem to videl v katalogu Alfatroniku. > >>Martin > >> > >> > >>______________________________________________________________ > >>>Od: clock at twibright.com > >>>Komu: Twibright Ronja > >>>Datum: 28.08.2006 22:02 > >>>P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka > >>> > >>>On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 09:01:06PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote: > >>>>>Vse je v provedeni venkovnim. > >>>>Ano, existuje i UTP pro venkovni provedeni. > >>>Can you get STP for outdoor? If yes, where? Or at least where you can get > >>>the outdoor UTP? > >>> > >>>CL< > >>>>Filtr do 40MHz proti ruseni jsem samozrejme udelal. > >>>>I kdyz si myslim, ze za 78S15 nic "neleze" (meril jsem to) . > >>>>Martin > >>>>>______________________________________________________________ > >>>>>Od: clock at twibright.com > >>>>>Komu: Twibright Ronja > >>>>>Datum: 28.08.2006 17:16 > >>>>>P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka > >>>>> > >>>>>On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 03:49:20PM +0200, Cipis wrote: > >>>>>>Mno, ten chlap by pot?eboval do dr?ky, to je fakt reprezentace jak > >>>>>>bl?zen. > >>>>>>S t?m datov?m kabelem to nen? a? tak hork? - na t? posledn? fotce > >>>>>>hromosvod > jen k????, ostatn? jsem moc ne?tudoval. > >>>>>>Sp?? to vypad? d?sn? hnusn?, na providera, kter? to d?l? > >>>>>>profesion?ln?. I j? > bych dal ten kousek do li?ty a od zdi k t?m > >>>>>>cajk?m bu? krk nebo takov? ten > omot?vac? nesmysl. > >>>>>For ordinary Ronja it would be just esthetical matter - if the coaxial > >>>>>cable is > >>>>>outdoor it doesn't matter if it's just thrown on the roof. Even if > >>>>>it's not > >>>>>outdoor it affects just lifetime, not performance. Anyway if you > >>>>>install a TV > >>>>>antenna you also throw the cable on a roof and don't use any plastic > >>>>>ducts. > >>>>> > >>>>>RyS is using TP. TP can rot through on the weather and the signal > >>>>>inside UTP > >>>>>can be affected electromagnetically by pooling water even without > >>>>>insulation > >>>>>breach. That's why I didn't put TP cable into the guide. In case of a > >>>>>TP cable > >>>>>plastic ducts can have a technical benefit. > >>>>> > >>>>>When we installed Ronja we used outdoor coaxials and left them just > >>>>>lying on > >>>>>the tin roof. Sometimes we used plastic ties to bundle cables together. > >>>>> > >>>>>CL< > >>>>_______________________________________________ > >>>>Ronja mailing list > >>>>Ronja at lists.pointless.net > >>>>http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > >>> > >>>_______________________________________________ > >>>Ronja mailing list > >>>Ronja at lists.pointless.net > >>>http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > >>> > >> > > > >>_______________________________________________ > >>Ronja mailing list > >>Ronja at lists.pointless.net > >>http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Ronja mailing list > >Ronja at lists.pointless.net > >http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > -- > Jakub S?kora > email: kubajz at kbx.cz <') > ICQ: 68976632 ( =- > mobil: +420 777 594 201 '' > begin:vcard > fn;quoted-printable:Jakub S=C3=BDkora > n;quoted-printable:S=C3=BDkora;Jakub > adr;quoted-printable:;;=C3=9Adoln=C3=AD 1273;Praha 4;;14200;Czech Republic > email;internet:kubajz at kbx.cz > tel;cell:+420 777 594 201 > url:http://kubajz.kbx.cz > version:2.1 > end:vcard > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From cd930 at centrum.cz Wed Aug 30 11:34:24 2006 From: cd930 at centrum.cz (-=RYS=-) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 12:34:24 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Dalsi linka In-Reply-To: <20060829221615.GB10195@kestrel.twibright.com> References: 200608282101.30699@centrum.cz> <200608282346.11750@centrum.cz> <20060829221615.GB10195@kestrel.twibright.com> Message-ID: <200608301234.9970@centrum.cz> Je to podobne jako venkovnimu koaxu, 2x "buzirka" okolo. Napsano tam neni nic, ale odhaduji, ze je to pro ven. Martin ______________________________________________________________ > Od: clock na twibright.com > Komu: Twibright Ronja > Datum: 30.08.2006 00:16 > P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka > >On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 11:46:33PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote: >> Ten venkovni UTP ma drat 0.62mm a dvojitou "buzirku" okolo "dratu". Taky >> "buzirka" okolo dratu je silnejsi. > >A je na tom natisteno "outdoor" nebo to vyrobce v katalogu uvadi? Aby >to nebyla nejaka ustni tradice - zatim se mi te legende o existenci >venkovniho UTP/STP moc verit nechce. > >CL< >> Taky to ma dvojitej plast obal. >> Vim, ze existuje i STP verze. >> Ja to mam od znameho....kde to sehnal..nevim. >> Ale mam dojem, ze jsem to videl v katalogu Alfatroniku. >> Martin >> > > ______________________________________________________________ >> > Od: clock na twibright.com >> > Komu: Twibright Ronja >> > Datum: 28.08.2006 22:02 >> > P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka >> > >> >On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 09:01:06PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote: >> >> > Vse je v provedeni venkovnim. >> >> Ano, existuje i UTP pro venkovni provedeni. >> > >> >Can you get STP for outdoor? If yes, where? Or at least where you can get >> >the outdoor UTP? >> > >> >CL< >> >> Filtr do 40MHz proti ruseni jsem samozrejme udelal. >> >> I kdyz si myslim, ze za 78S15 nic "neleze" (meril jsem to) . >> >> Martin >> >> > ______________________________________________________________ >> >> > Od: clock na twibright.com >> >> > Komu: Twibright Ronja >> >> > Datum: 28.08.2006 17:16 >> >> > P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka >> >> > >> >> >On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 03:49:20PM +0200, Cipis wrote: >> >> >> Mno, ten chlap by pot?eboval do dr?ky, to je fakt reprezentace jak bl?zen. >> >> >> S t?m datov?m kabelem to nen? a? tak hork? - na t? posledn? fotce hromosvod > jen k????, ostatn? jsem moc ne?tudoval. >> >> >> Sp?? to vypad? d?sn? hnusn?, na providera, kter? to d?l? profesion?ln?. I j? > bych dal ten kousek do li?ty a od zdi k t?m cajk?m bu? krk nebo takov? ten > omot?vac? nesmysl. >> >> > >> >> >For ordinary Ronja it would be just esthetical matter - if the coaxial cable is >> >> >outdoor it doesn't matter if it's just thrown on the roof. ?Even if it's not >> >> >outdoor it affects just lifetime, not performance. ?Anyway if you install a TV >> >> >antenna you also throw the cable on a roof and don't use any plastic ducts. >> >> > >> >> >RyS is using TP. TP can rot through on the weather and the signal inside UTP >> >> >can be affected electromagnetically by pooling water even without insulation >> >> >breach. ?That's why I didn't put TP cable into the guide. In case of a TP cable >> >> >plastic ducts can have a technical benefit. >> >> > >> >> >When we installed Ronja we used outdoor coaxials and left them just lying on >> >> >the tin roof. Sometimes we used plastic ties to bundle cables together. >> >> > >> >> >CL< >> >> > > > >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Ronja mailing list >> >> Ronja na lists.pointless.net >> >> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja >> > >> > >> >_______________________________________________ >> >Ronja mailing list >> >Ronja na lists.pointless.net >> >http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja >> > > > >> _______________________________________________ >> Ronja mailing list >> Ronja na lists.pointless.net >> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > >_______________________________________________ >Ronja mailing list >Ronja na lists.pointless.net >http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > ------------- dal?? ??st --------------- HTML p??loha byla odstran?na... URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20060830/b8d9cd41/attachment.html From kubajz at kbx.cz Wed Aug 30 12:33:21 2006 From: kubajz at kbx.cz (Jakub Sykora) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 13:33:21 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Dalsi linka In-Reply-To: <20060830095002.GB3247@kestrel.twibright.com> References: <200608282101.30699@centrum.cz> <20060828200129.GA13493@kestrel.twibright.com> <200608282346.11750@centrum.cz> <20060829221615.GB10195@kestrel.twibright.com> <44F4C0C8.7060706@kbx.cz> <20060830095002.GB3247@kestrel.twibright.com> Message-ID: <44F57781.1050800@kbx.cz> Ne to nedelaji. Stejne tak jsem nevidel kabel odolny proti blbcum :) K Karel Kulhavy napsal(a): > On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 12:33:44AM +0200, Jakub Sykora wrote: >> Mno kabely se takovy urcite delaji - staci se podivat treba do katalogu >> Beldenu na kbaely DataTuff, ktere jsou pro prumyslove uziti a jejich >> vrchni slupka se dela v provedenich: odolne proti UV, proti Mazivum, >> proti Chemikaliim atp... > > Delaj taky odolnou proti Chuckovi Norrisovi a Jacku Bauerovi? > > CL< >> Ale nechci ani vedet kolik toho stoji metr... >> >> K >> >> Karel Kulhavy napsal(a): >>> On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 11:46:33PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote: >>>> Ten venkovni UTP ma drat 0.62mm a dvojitou "buzirku" okolo "dratu". Taky >>>> "buzirka" okolo dratu je silnejsi. >>> A je na tom natisteno "outdoor" nebo to vyrobce v katalogu uvadi? Aby >>> to nebyla nejaka ustni tradice - zatim se mi te legende o existenci >>> venkovniho UTP/STP moc verit nechce. >>> >>> CL< >>>> Taky to ma dvojitej plast obal. >>>> Vim, ze existuje i STP verze. >>>> Ja to mam od znameho....kde to sehnal..nevim. >>>> Ale mam dojem, ze jsem to videl v katalogu Alfatroniku. >>>> Martin >>>> >>>> >>>> ______________________________________________________________ >>>>> Od: clock na twibright.com >>>>> Komu: Twibright Ronja >>>>> Datum: 28.08.2006 22:02 >>>>> P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 09:01:06PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote: >>>>>>> Vse je v provedeni venkovnim. >>>>>> Ano, existuje i UTP pro venkovni provedeni. >>>>> Can you get STP for outdoor? If yes, where? Or at least where you can get >>>>> the outdoor UTP? >>>>> >>>>> CL< >>>>>> Filtr do 40MHz proti ruseni jsem samozrejme udelal. >>>>>> I kdyz si myslim, ze za 78S15 nic "neleze" (meril jsem to) . >>>>>> Martin >>>>>>> ______________________________________________________________ >>>>>>> Od: clock na twibright.com >>>>>>> Komu: Twibright Ronja >>>>>>> Datum: 28.08.2006 17:16 >>>>>>> P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 03:49:20PM +0200, Cipis wrote: >>>>>>>> Mno, ten chlap by pot?eboval do dr?ky, to je fakt reprezentace jak >>>>>>>> bl?zen. >>>>>>>> S t?m datov?m kabelem to nen? a? tak hork? - na t? posledn? fotce >>>>>>>> hromosvod > jen k????, ostatn? jsem moc ne?tudoval. >>>>>>>> Sp?? to vypad? d?sn? hnusn?, na providera, kter? to d?l? >>>>>>>> profesion?ln?. I j? > bych dal ten kousek do li?ty a od zdi k t?m >>>>>>>> cajk?m bu? krk nebo takov? ten > omot?vac? nesmysl. >>>>>>> For ordinary Ronja it would be just esthetical matter - if the coaxial >>>>>>> cable is >>>>>>> outdoor it doesn't matter if it's just thrown on the roof. Even if >>>>>>> it's not >>>>>>> outdoor it affects just lifetime, not performance. Anyway if you >>>>>>> install a TV >>>>>>> antenna you also throw the cable on a roof and don't use any plastic >>>>>>> ducts. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> RyS is using TP. TP can rot through on the weather and the signal >>>>>>> inside UTP >>>>>>> can be affected electromagnetically by pooling water even without >>>>>>> insulation >>>>>>> breach. That's why I didn't put TP cable into the guide. In case of a >>>>>>> TP cable >>>>>>> plastic ducts can have a technical benefit. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> When we installed Ronja we used outdoor coaxials and left them just >>>>>>> lying on >>>>>>> the tin roof. Sometimes we used plastic ties to bundle cables together. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> CL< >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Ronja mailing list >>>>>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net >>>>>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Ronja mailing list >>>>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net >>>>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Ronja mailing list >>>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net >>>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Ronja mailing list >>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net >>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja >> -- >> Jakub S?kora >> email: kubajz na kbx.cz <') >> ICQ: 68976632 ( =- >> mobil: +420 777 594 201 '' > >> begin:vcard >> fn;quoted-printable:Jakub S=C3=BDkora >> n;quoted-printable:S=C3=BDkora;Jakub >> adr;quoted-printable:;;=C3=9Adoln=C3=AD 1273;Praha 4;;14200;Czech Republic >> email;internet:kubajz na kbx.cz >> tel;cell:+420 777 594 201 >> url:http://kubajz.kbx.cz >> version:2.1 >> end:vcard >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> Ronja mailing list >> Ronja na lists.pointless.net >> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja na lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja -- Jakub S?kora email: kubajz na kbx.cz <') ICQ: 68976632 ( =- mobil: +420 777 594 201 '' ------------- dal?? ??st --------------- Netextov? p??loha byla odstran?na... Jm?no: kubajz.vcf Typ: text/x-vcard Velikost: 265 bytes Popis: [??dn? popis nen? k dispozici] Url : http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20060830/5847c7ac/attachment.vcf From clock at twibright.com Wed Aug 30 13:29:53 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 14:29:53 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Dalsi linka In-Reply-To: <200608301234.9970@centrum.cz> References: <200608282346.11750@centrum.cz> <20060829221615.GB10195@kestrel.twibright.com> <200608301234.9970@centrum.cz> Message-ID: <20060830122953.GA19221@kestrel.twibright.com> On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 12:34:24PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote: > Je to podobne jako venkovnimu koaxu, 2x "buzirka" okolo. Ta dvojita buzirka je kolem kazdyho dratku a nebo kolem celyho toho kabelu? CL< > Napsano tam neni nic, ale odhaduji, ze je to pro ven. > Martin > > ______________________________________________________________ > > Od: clock at twibright.com > > Komu: Twibright Ronja > > Datum: 30.08.2006 00:16 > > P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka > > > >On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 11:46:33PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote: > >> Ten venkovni UTP ma drat 0.62mm a dvojitou "buzirku" okolo "dratu". Taky > >> "buzirka" okolo dratu je silnejsi. > > > >A je na tom natisteno "outdoor" nebo to vyrobce v katalogu uvadi? Aby > >to nebyla nejaka ustni tradice - zatim se mi te legende o existenci > >venkovniho UTP/STP moc verit nechce. > > > >CL< > >> Taky to ma dvojitej plast obal. > >> Vim, ze existuje i STP verze. > >> Ja to mam od znameho....kde to sehnal..nevim. > >> Ale mam dojem, ze jsem to videl v katalogu Alfatroniku. > >> Martin > >> > > ______________________________________________________________ > >> > Od: clock at twibright.com > >> > Komu: Twibright Ronja > >> > Datum: 28.08.2006 22:02 > >> > P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka > >> > > >> >On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 09:01:06PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote: > >> >> > Vse je v provedeni venkovnim. > >> >> Ano, existuje i UTP pro venkovni provedeni. > >> > > >> >Can you get STP for outdoor? If yes, where? Or at least where you can get > >> >the outdoor UTP? > >> > > >> >CL< > >> >> Filtr do 40MHz proti ruseni jsem samozrejme udelal. > >> >> I kdyz si myslim, ze za 78S15 nic "neleze" (meril jsem to) . > >> >> Martin > >> >> > ______________________________________________________________ > >> >> > Od: clock at twibright.com > >> >> > Komu: Twibright Ronja > >> >> > Datum: 28.08.2006 17:16 > >> >> > P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka > >> >> > > >> >> >On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 03:49:20PM +0200, Cipis wrote: > >> >> >> Mno, ten chlap by pot?eboval do dr?ky, to je fakt reprezentace jak bl?zen. > >> >> >> S t?m datov?m kabelem to nen? a? tak hork? - na t? posledn? fotce hromosvod > jen k????, ostatn? jsem moc ne?tudoval. > >> >> >> Sp?? to vypad? d?sn? hnusn?, na providera, kter? to d?l? profesion?ln?. I j? > bych dal ten kousek do li?ty a od zdi k t?m cajk?m bu? krk nebo takov? ten > omot?vac? nesmysl. > >> >> > > >> >> >For ordinary Ronja it would be just esthetical matter - if the coaxial cable is > >> >> >outdoor it doesn't matter if it's just thrown on the roof. ?Even if it's not > >> >> >outdoor it affects just lifetime, not performance. ?Anyway if you install a TV > >> >> >antenna you also throw the cable on a roof and don't use any plastic ducts. > >> >> > > >> >> >RyS is using TP. TP can rot through on the weather and the signal inside UTP > >> >> >can be affected electromagnetically by pooling water even without insulation > >> >> >breach. ?That's why I didn't put TP cable into the guide. In case of a TP cable > >> >> >plastic ducts can have a technical benefit. > >> >> > > >> >> >When we installed Ronja we used outdoor coaxials and left them just lying on > >> >> >the tin roof. Sometimes we used plastic ties to bundle cables together. > >> >> > > >> >> >CL< > >> >> > > > >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> Ronja mailing list > >> >> Ronja at lists.pointless.net > >> >> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > >> > > >> > > >> >_______________________________________________ > >> >Ronja mailing list > >> >Ronja at lists.pointless.net > >> >http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > >> > > > > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Ronja mailing list > >> Ronja at lists.pointless.net > >> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Ronja mailing list > >Ronja at lists.pointless.net > >http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From clock at twibright.com Wed Aug 30 14:31:37 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 15:31:37 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] ronja In-Reply-To: <002801c6cc27$4f282660$1c01a8c0@IDSystemsUKLtd.local> References: <002801c6cc27$4f282660$1c01a8c0@IDSystemsUKLtd.local> Message-ID: <20060830133137.GA20676@kestrel.twibright.com> On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 12:27:28PM +0100, Mark Oldham wrote: > hello karel > > i came accross this http://ronja.twibright.com/models.php > > im very interested in prices I am just developing and publishing, not manufacturing and selling. But someone on mailing list said he wants to sell a used device. > > if i understand correct you can transmit ethernet data transparently with > this method yes. CL< > > best regards > > mark From clock at twibright.com Wed Aug 30 17:25:58 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 18:25:58 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] [SPAM] Re: ronja In-Reply-To: <001001c6cc44$622f5770$1c01a8c0@IDSystemsUKLtd.local> References: <002801c6cc27$4f282660$1c01a8c0@IDSystemsUKLtd.local> <20060830133137.GA20676@kestrel.twibright.com> <001001c6cc44$622f5770$1c01a8c0@IDSystemsUKLtd.local> Message-ID: <20060830162558.GB1857@kestrel.twibright.com> On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 03:55:46PM +0100, marko wrote: > I am just developing and publishing, not manufacturing and selling. But > someone > >on mailing list said he wants to sell a used device. > > do you have this persons contact details I don't remember. But I sent the reply there so if he's interested I guess he'll write you. He's from Czech Republic. Maybe there were even two persons like this, I am not sure. CL< > > thanks > mark > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Karel Kulhavy" > To: "Mark Oldham" > Cc: "Twibright Ronja" > Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 2:31 PM > Subject: [SPAM] Re: ronja > > > >On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 12:27:28PM +0100, Mark Oldham wrote: > >>hello karel > >> > >>i came accross this http://ronja.twibright.com/models.php > >> > >>im very interested in prices > > > >I am just developing and publishing, not manufacturing and selling. But > >someone > >on mailing list said he wants to sell a used device. > > > >> > >>if i understand correct you can transmit ethernet data transparently with > >>this method > > > >yes. > > > >CL< > >> > >>best regards > >> > >>mark From cd930 at centrum.cz Wed Aug 30 18:13:14 2006 From: cd930 at centrum.cz (-=RYS=-) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 19:13:14 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Dalsi linka In-Reply-To: <20060830122953.GA19221@kestrel.twibright.com> References: 200608282346.11750@centrum.cz> <200608301234.9970@centrum.cz> <20060830122953.GA19221@kestrel.twibright.com> Message-ID: <200608301913.1144@centrum.cz> Kolem celeho kabelu. ______________________________________________________________ > Od: clock na twibright.com > Komu: Twibright Ronja > Datum: 30.08.2006 14:30 > P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka > >On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 12:34:24PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote: >> Je to podobne jako venkovnimu koaxu, 2x "buzirka" okolo. > >Ta dvojita buzirka je kolem kazdyho dratku a nebo kolem celyho toho kabelu? > >CL< >> Napsano tam neni nic, ale odhaduji, ze je to pro ven. >> Martin >> > ______________________________________________________________ >> > Od: clock na twibright.com >> > Komu: Twibright Ronja >> > Datum: 30.08.2006 00:16 >> > P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka >> > >> >On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 11:46:33PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote: >> >> Ten venkovni UTP ma drat 0.62mm a dvojitou "buzirku" okolo "dratu". Taky >> >> "buzirka" okolo dratu je silnejsi. >> > >> >A je na tom natisteno "outdoor" nebo to vyrobce v katalogu uvadi? Aby >> >to nebyla nejaka ustni tradice - zatim se mi te legende o existenci >> >venkovniho UTP/STP moc verit nechce. >> > >> >CL< >> >> Taky to ma dvojitej plast obal. >> >> Vim, ze existuje i STP verze. >> >> Ja to mam od znameho....kde to sehnal..nevim. >> >> Ale mam dojem, ze jsem to videl v katalogu Alfatroniku. >> >> Martin >> >> > > ______________________________________________________________ >> >> > Od: clock na twibright.com >> >> > Komu: Twibright Ronja >> >> > Datum: 28.08.2006 22:02 >> >> > P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka >> >> > >> >> >On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 09:01:06PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote: >> >> >> > Vse je v provedeni venkovnim. >> >> >> Ano, existuje i UTP pro venkovni provedeni. >> >> > >> >> >Can you get STP for outdoor? If yes, where? Or at least where you can get >> >> >the outdoor UTP? >> >> > >> >> >CL< >> >> >> Filtr do 40MHz proti ruseni jsem samozrejme udelal. >> >> >> I kdyz si myslim, ze za 78S15 nic "neleze" (meril jsem to) . >> >> >> Martin >> >> >> > ______________________________________________________________ >> >> >> > Od: clock na twibright.com >> >> >> > Komu: Twibright Ronja >> >> >> > Datum: 28.08.2006 17:16 >> >> >> > P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka >> >> >> > >> >> >> >On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 03:49:20PM +0200, Cipis wrote: >> >> >> >> Mno, ten chlap by pot?eboval do dr?ky, to je fakt reprezentace jak bl?zen. >> >> >> >> S t?m datov?m kabelem to nen? a? tak hork? - na t? posledn? fotce hromosvod > jen k????, ostatn? jsem moc ne?tudoval. >> >> >> >> Sp?? to vypad? d?sn? hnusn?, na providera, kter? to d?l? profesion?ln?. I j? > bych dal ten kousek do li?ty a od zdi k t?m cajk?m bu? krk nebo takov? ten > omot?vac? nesmysl. >> >> >> > >> >> >> >For ordinary Ronja it would be just esthetical matter - if the coaxial cable is >> >> >> >outdoor it doesn't matter if it's just thrown on the roof. ?Even if it's not >> >> >> >outdoor it affects just lifetime, not performance. ?Anyway if you install a TV >> >> >> >antenna you also throw the cable on a roof and don't use any plastic ducts. >> >> >> > >> >> >> >RyS is using TP. TP can rot through on the weather and the signal inside UTP >> >> >> >can be affected electromagnetically by pooling water even without insulation >> >> >> >breach. ?That's why I didn't put TP cable into the guide. In case of a TP cable >> >> >> >plastic ducts can have a technical benefit. >> >> >> > >> >> >> >When we installed Ronja we used outdoor coaxials and left them just lying on >> >> >> >the tin roof. Sometimes we used plastic ties to bundle cables together. >> >> >> > >> >> >> >CL< >> >> >> > > > >> _______________________________________________ >> >> >> Ronja mailing list >> >> >> Ronja na lists.pointless.net >> >> >> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >_______________________________________________ >> >> >Ronja mailing list >> >> >Ronja na lists.pointless.net >> >> >http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja >> >> > > > > >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Ronja mailing list >> >> Ronja na lists.pointless.net >> >> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja >> > >> > >> >_______________________________________________ >> >Ronja mailing list >> >Ronja na lists.pointless.net >> >http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja >> > > > >> _______________________________________________ >> Ronja mailing list >> Ronja na lists.pointless.net >> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > >_______________________________________________ >Ronja mailing list >Ronja na lists.pointless.net >http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > ------------- dal?? ??st --------------- HTML p??loha byla odstran?na... URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20060830/14e45f9f/attachment-0001.html From clock at twibright.com Wed Aug 30 18:25:13 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 19:25:13 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] OpenBSD artwork website wording In-Reply-To: <200608301642.k7UGg4Fd003200@cvs.openbsd.org> References: <20060830090203.GA14930@kestrel.twibright.com> <200608301642.k7UGg4Fd003200@cvs.openbsd.org> Message-ID: <20060830172513.GA28114@kestrel.twibright.com> On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 10:42:04AM -0600, Theo de Raadt wrote: > > I would personally see terms "you can use the logo to represent your usage of > > OpenBSD or compatibility with OpenBSD" more appropriate for a free software > > project logo than the band-aid-over-mouth "represent OpenBSD in a positive > > light". > > except those are not the types of terms that we can reasonably do, and > still be protecting our rights. > > i've researched what we can do. i've researched the downsides. please > don't lecture me... i'm trying to do the best for everyone. But does it then mean that I cannot criticize OpenBSD in connection with Ronja? CL< From clock at twibright.com Wed Aug 30 18:26:11 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 19:26:11 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Dalsi linka In-Reply-To: <200608301913.1144@centrum.cz> References: <200608301234.9970@centrum.cz> <20060830122953.GA19221@kestrel.twibright.com> <200608301913.1144@centrum.cz> Message-ID: <20060830172611.GA23157@kestrel.twibright.com> On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 07:13:14PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote: > Kolem celeho kabelu. Aha tak to jo, ja to puvodne pochopil ze kolem kazdyho dratku ("a dvojitou "buzirku" okolo "dratu"") CL< > > ______________________________________________________________ > > Od: clock at twibright.com > > Komu: Twibright Ronja > > Datum: 30.08.2006 14:30 > > P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka > > > >On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 12:34:24PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote: > >> Je to podobne jako venkovnimu koaxu, 2x "buzirka" okolo. > > > >Ta dvojita buzirka je kolem kazdyho dratku a nebo kolem celyho toho kabelu? > > > >CL< > >> Napsano tam neni nic, ale odhaduji, ze je to pro ven. > >> Martin > >> > ______________________________________________________________ > >> > Od: clock at twibright.com > >> > Komu: Twibright Ronja > >> > Datum: 30.08.2006 00:16 > >> > P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka > >> > > >> >On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 11:46:33PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote: > >> >> Ten venkovni UTP ma drat 0.62mm a dvojitou "buzirku" okolo "dratu". Taky > >> >> "buzirka" okolo dratu je silnejsi. > >> > > >> >A je na tom natisteno "outdoor" nebo to vyrobce v katalogu uvadi? Aby > >> >to nebyla nejaka ustni tradice - zatim se mi te legende o existenci > >> >venkovniho UTP/STP moc verit nechce. > >> > > >> >CL< > >> >> Taky to ma dvojitej plast obal. > >> >> Vim, ze existuje i STP verze. > >> >> Ja to mam od znameho....kde to sehnal..nevim. > >> >> Ale mam dojem, ze jsem to videl v katalogu Alfatroniku. > >> >> Martin > >> >> > > ______________________________________________________________ > >> >> > Od: clock at twibright.com > >> >> > Komu: Twibright Ronja > >> >> > Datum: 28.08.2006 22:02 > >> >> > P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka > >> >> > > >> >> >On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 09:01:06PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote: > >> >> >> > Vse je v provedeni venkovnim. > >> >> >> Ano, existuje i UTP pro venkovni provedeni. > >> >> > > >> >> >Can you get STP for outdoor? If yes, where? Or at least where you can get > >> >> >the outdoor UTP? > >> >> > > >> >> >CL< > >> >> >> Filtr do 40MHz proti ruseni jsem samozrejme udelal. > >> >> >> I kdyz si myslim, ze za 78S15 nic "neleze" (meril jsem to) . > >> >> >> Martin > >> >> >> > ______________________________________________________________ > >> >> >> > Od: clock at twibright.com > >> >> >> > Komu: Twibright Ronja > >> >> >> > Datum: 28.08.2006 17:16 > >> >> >> > P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 03:49:20PM +0200, Cipis wrote: > >> >> >> >> Mno, ten chlap by pot?eboval do dr?ky, to je fakt reprezentace jak bl?zen. > >> >> >> >> S t?m datov?m kabelem to nen? a? tak hork? - na t? posledn? fotce hromosvod > jen k????, ostatn? jsem moc ne?tudoval. > >> >> >> >> Sp?? to vypad? d?sn? hnusn?, na providera, kter? to d?l? profesion?ln?. I j? > bych dal ten kousek do li?ty a od zdi k t?m cajk?m bu? krk nebo takov? ten > omot?vac? nesmysl. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >For ordinary Ronja it would be just esthetical matter - if the coaxial cable is > >> >> >> >outdoor it doesn't matter if it's just thrown on the roof. ?Even if it's not > >> >> >> >outdoor it affects just lifetime, not performance. ?Anyway if you install a TV > >> >> >> >antenna you also throw the cable on a roof and don't use any plastic ducts. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >RyS is using TP. TP can rot through on the weather and the signal inside UTP > >> >> >> >can be affected electromagnetically by pooling water even without insulation > >> >> >> >breach. ?That's why I didn't put TP cable into the guide. In case of a TP cable > >> >> >> >plastic ducts can have a technical benefit. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >When we installed Ronja we used outdoor coaxials and left them just lying on > >> >> >> >the tin roof. Sometimes we used plastic ties to bundle cables together. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >CL< > >> >> >> > > > >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> >> Ronja mailing list > >> >> >> Ronja at lists.pointless.net > >> >> >> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> >_______________________________________________ > >> >> >Ronja mailing list > >> >> >Ronja at lists.pointless.net > >> >> >http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > >> >> > > > > >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> Ronja mailing list > >> >> Ronja at lists.pointless.net > >> >> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > >> > > >> > > >> >_______________________________________________ > >> >Ronja mailing list > >> >Ronja at lists.pointless.net > >> >http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > >> > > > > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Ronja mailing list > >> Ronja at lists.pointless.net > >> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Ronja mailing list > >Ronja at lists.pointless.net > >http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From clock at twibright.com Wed Aug 30 21:05:32 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 22:05:32 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] OpenBSD artwork website wording In-Reply-To: <200608301727.k7UHRQcv009712@cvs.openbsd.org> References: <20060830172513.GA28114@kestrel.twibright.com> <200608301727.k7UHRQcv009712@cvs.openbsd.org> Message-ID: <20060830200532.GA10011@kestrel.twibright.com> :( I wanted to also give OpenBSD a little free marketing (the monthly traffic of the Ronja website http://ronja.twibright.com is IIRC around 10GB) by proudly stating we use it on the project (well, me on my devel machine), but it looks like every time I discuss OpenBSD on the Ronja mailing list I would have to take care whether I already put OpenBSD into negative light or not yet, and possibly remove the logo. Which is a bit impractical to keep on my mind for indefinite future so I am better removing the picture now and leaving just a textual link. clock at kestrel:~/creat/ronja/trunk/grx/tools$ svn rm openbsd.png D openbsd.png At least I don't have to have a special paragraph dedicated to OpenBSD logo on the Ronja copyright page :) CL< On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 11:27:26AM -0600, Theo de Raadt wrote: > Yes, it means that if you are an asshole towards OpenBSD we > withdraw your right to use *OUR* artwork. > > That is EXACTLY what it means. > > That's how every COPYRIGHT and TRADEMARK holder in the world > does this, and how we will. > > We have to. There are laws which demand that we protect our > "image", because if we don't protect it, noone will help us > protect it. > > Now please, I have way more important things to do. > > > Return-Path: clock at twibright.com > > Delivery-Date: Wed Aug 30 11:25:22 2006 > > Received: from twin.jikos.cz (twin.jikos.cz [213.151.79.26]) > > by cvs.openbsd.org (8.13.6/8.12.1) with ESMTP id k7UHPKtM012419 > > (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-DSS-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) > > for ; Wed, 30 Aug 2006 11:25:21 -0600 (MDT) > > Received: from kestrel.twibright.com (zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch [81.221.122.143]) > > (authenticated bits=0) > > by twin.jikos.cz (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k7UHPDah011103 > > (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); > > Wed, 30 Aug 2006 19:25:14 +0200 > > Received: from clock by kestrel.twibright.com with local (Exim 4.60) > > (envelope-from ) > > id 1GIToP-0006Ko-FE; Wed, 30 Aug 2006 19:25:13 +0200 > > Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 19:25:13 +0200 > > From: Karel Kulhavy > > To: Theo de Raadt > > Cc: Twibright Ronja > > Subject: Re: OpenBSD artwork website wording > > Message-ID: <20060830172513.GA28114 at kestrel.twibright.com> > > References: <20060830090203.GA14930 at kestrel.twibright.com> <200608301642.k7UGg4Fd003200 at cvs.openbsd.org> > > Mime-Version: 1.0 > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Content-Disposition: inline > > In-Reply-To: <200608301642.k7UGg4Fd003200 at cvs.openbsd.org> > > X-Orientation: Gay > > X-Stance: Goofy > > User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 > > > > On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 10:42:04AM -0600, Theo de Raadt wrote: > > > > I would personally see terms "you can use the logo to represent your usage of > > > > OpenBSD or compatibility with OpenBSD" more appropriate for a free software > > > > project logo than the band-aid-over-mouth "represent OpenBSD in a positive > > > > light". > > > > > > except those are not the types of terms that we can reasonably do, and > > > still be protecting our rights. > > > > > > i've researched what we can do. i've researched the downsides. please > > > don't lecture me... i'm trying to do the best for everyone. > > > > But does it then mean that I cannot criticize OpenBSD in connection with > > Ronja? > > > > CL< From qjmurray at hotmail.com Thu Aug 31 03:34:43 2006 From: qjmurray at hotmail.com (kqj rocks) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 22:34:43 -0400 Subject: [Ronja] ronja as backbone Message-ID: I know the ronja can be used as an ethernet based internet backbone. If this is true will I be able to use them for an internet backhaul system to hop data from ronja to ronja and increase speed of internet data transfer to route internet data over a mesh network. since the ronja can be used as an internet backbone can it be used to act as a 10mbps backbone for an ultra-high speed network where the internet speed of the wireless network is 10mbps x number of ronjas plus the speed of the mesh network's internet connection 11mbps??? what is the total internet speed a cilent recieves when connecting to this wi-fi mesh network???> From: ronja-request at lists.pointless.net> Subject: Ronja Digest, Vol 40, Issue 22> To: ronja at lists.pointless.net> Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 18:13:52 +0100> > Send Ronja mailing list submissions to> ronja at lists.pointless.net> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to> ronja-request at lists.pointless.net> > You can reach the person managing the list at> ronja-owner at lists.pointless.net> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific> than "Re: Contents of Ronja digest..."> > > Today's Topics:> > 1. Re: Dalsi linka (Jakub Sykora)> 2. Re: Dalsi linka (Karel Kulhavy)> 3. Re: ronja (Karel Kulhavy)> 4. Re: [SPAM] Re: ronja (Karel Kulhavy)> 5. Re: Dalsi linka (-=RYS=-)> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------> > Message: 1> Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 13:33:21 +0200> From: Jakub Sykora > Subject: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> To: Twibright Ronja > Message-ID: <44F57781.1050800 at kbx.cz>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2"> > Ne to nedelaji. Stejne tak jsem nevidel kabel odolny proti blbcum :)> > K> > Karel Kulhavy napsal(a):> > On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 12:33:44AM +0200, Jakub Sykora wrote:> >> Mno kabely se takovy urcite delaji - staci se podivat treba do katalogu > >> Beldenu na kbaely DataTuff, ktere jsou pro prumyslove uziti a jejich > >> vrchni slupka se dela v provedenich: odolne proti UV, proti Mazivum, > >> proti Chemikaliim atp...> > > > Delaj taky odolnou proti Chuckovi Norrisovi a Jacku Bauerovi?> > > > CL<> >> Ale nechci ani vedet kolik toho stoji metr...> >>> >> K> >>> >> Karel Kulhavy napsal(a):> >>> On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 11:46:33PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote:> >>>> Ten venkovni UTP ma drat 0.62mm a dvojitou "buzirku" okolo "dratu". Taky> >>>> "buzirka" okolo dratu je silnejsi.> >>> A je na tom natisteno "outdoor" nebo to vyrobce v katalogu uvadi? Aby> >>> to nebyla nejaka ustni tradice - zatim se mi te legende o existenci> >>> venkovniho UTP/STP moc verit nechce.> >>>> >>> CL<> >>>> Taky to ma dvojitej plast obal.> >>>> Vim, ze existuje i STP verze.> >>>> Ja to mam od znameho....kde to sehnal..nevim.> >>>> Ale mam dojem, ze jsem to videl v katalogu Alfatroniku.> >>>> Martin> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> ______________________________________________________________> >>>>> Od: clock at twibright.com> >>>>> Komu: Twibright Ronja > >>>>> Datum: 28.08.2006 22:02> >>>>> P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> >>>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 09:01:06PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote:> >>>>>>> Vse je v provedeni venkovnim.> >>>>>> Ano, existuje i UTP pro venkovni provedeni.> >>>>> Can you get STP for outdoor? If yes, where? Or at least where you can get> >>>>> the outdoor UTP?> >>>>>> >>>>> CL<> >>>>>> Filtr do 40MHz proti ruseni jsem samozrejme udelal.> >>>>>> I kdyz si myslim, ze za 78S15 nic "neleze" (meril jsem to) .> >>>>>> Martin> >>>>>>> ______________________________________________________________> >>>>>>> Od: clock at twibright.com> >>>>>>> Komu: Twibright Ronja > >>>>>>> Datum: 28.08.2006 17:16> >>>>>>> P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 03:49:20PM +0200, Cipis wrote:> >>>>>>>> Mno, ten chlap by pot?eboval do dr?ky, to je fakt reprezentace jak > >>>>>>>> bl?zen.> >>>>>>>> S t?m datov?m kabelem to nen? a? tak hork? - na t? posledn? fotce > >>>>>>>> hromosvod > jen k????, ostatn? jsem moc ne?tudoval.> >>>>>>>> Sp?? to vypad? d?sn? hnusn?, na providera, kter? to d?l? > >>>>>>>> profesion?ln?. I j? > bych dal ten kousek do li?ty a od zdi k t?m > >>>>>>>> cajk?m bu? krk nebo takov? ten > omot?vac? nesmysl.> >>>>>>> For ordinary Ronja it would be just esthetical matter - if the coaxial > >>>>>>> cable is> >>>>>>> outdoor it doesn't matter if it's just thrown on the roof. Even if > >>>>>>> it's not> >>>>>>> outdoor it affects just lifetime, not performance. Anyway if you > >>>>>>> install a TV> >>>>>>> antenna you also throw the cable on a roof and don't use any plastic > >>>>>>> ducts.> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> RyS is using TP. TP can rot through on the weather and the signal > >>>>>>> inside UTP> >>>>>>> can be affected electromagnetically by pooling water even without > >>>>>>> insulation> >>>>>>> breach. That's why I didn't put TP cable into the guide. In case of a > >>>>>>> TP cable> >>>>>>> plastic ducts can have a technical benefit.> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> When we installed Ronja we used outdoor coaxials and left them just > >>>>>>> lying on> >>>>>>> the tin roof. Sometimes we used plastic ties to bundle cables together.> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> CL<> >>>>>> _______________________________________________> >>>>>> Ronja mailing list> >>>>>> Ronja at lists.pointless.net> >>>>>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> >>>>> _______________________________________________> >>>>> Ronja mailing list> >>>>> Ronja at lists.pointless.net> >>>>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> >>>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________> >>>> Ronja mailing list> >>>> Ronja at lists.pointless.net> >>>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________> >>> Ronja mailing list> >>> Ronja at lists.pointless.net> >>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> >> -- > >> Jakub S?kora> >> email: kubajz at kbx.cz <')> >> ICQ: 68976632 ( =-> >> mobil: +420 777 594 201 ''> > > >> begin:vcard> >> fn;quoted-printable:Jakub S=C3=BDkora> >> n;quoted-printable:S=C3=BDkora;Jakub> >> adr;quoted-printable:;;=C3=9Adoln=C3=AD 1273;Praha 4;;14200;Czech Republic> >> email;internet:kubajz at kbx.cz> >> tel;cell:+420 777 594 201> >> url:http://kubajz.kbx.cz> >> version:2.1> >> end:vcard> >>> > > >> _______________________________________________> >> Ronja mailing list> >> Ronja at lists.pointless.net> >> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> > > > > > _______________________________________________> > Ronja mailing list> > Ronja at lists.pointless.net> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> > -- > Jakub S?kora> email: kubajz at kbx.cz <')> ICQ: 68976632 ( =-> mobil: +420 777 594 201 ''> -------------- next part --------------> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...> Name: kubajz.vcf> Type: text/x-vcard> Size: 265 bytes> Desc: not available> Url : http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20060830/5847c7ac/attachment-0001.vcf > > ------------------------------> > Message: 2> Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 14:29:53 +0200> From: Karel Kulhavy > Subject: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> To: Twibright Ronja > Message-ID: <20060830122953.GA19221 at kestrel.twibright.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1> > On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 12:34:24PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote:> > Je to podobne jako venkovnimu koaxu, 2x "buzirka" okolo.> > Ta dvojita buzirka je kolem kazdyho dratku a nebo kolem celyho toho kabelu?> > CL<> > Napsano tam neni nic, ale odhaduji, ze je to pro ven.> > Martin> > > > ______________________________________________________________> > > Od: clock at twibright.com> > > Komu: Twibright Ronja > > > Datum: 30.08.2006 00:16> > > P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> > >> > >On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 11:46:33PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote:> > >> Ten venkovni UTP ma drat 0.62mm a dvojitou "buzirku" okolo "dratu". Taky> > >> "buzirka" okolo dratu je silnejsi.> > >> > >A je na tom natisteno "outdoor" nebo to vyrobce v katalogu uvadi? Aby> > >to nebyla nejaka ustni tradice - zatim se mi te legende o existenci> > >venkovniho UTP/STP moc verit nechce.> > >> > >CL<> > >> Taky to ma dvojitej plast obal.> > >> Vim, ze existuje i STP verze.> > >> Ja to mam od znameho....kde to sehnal..nevim.> > >> Ale mam dojem, ze jsem to videl v katalogu Alfatroniku.> > >> Martin> > >> > > ______________________________________________________________> > >> > Od: clock at twibright.com> > >> > Komu: Twibright Ronja > > >> > Datum: 28.08.2006 22:02> > >> > P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> > >> >> > >> >On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 09:01:06PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote:> > >> >> > Vse je v provedeni venkovnim.> > >> >> Ano, existuje i UTP pro venkovni provedeni.> > >> >> > >> >Can you get STP for outdoor? If yes, where? Or at least where you can get> > >> >the outdoor UTP?> > >> >> > >> >CL<> > >> >> Filtr do 40MHz proti ruseni jsem samozrejme udelal.> > >> >> I kdyz si myslim, ze za 78S15 nic "neleze" (meril jsem to) .> > >> >> Martin> > >> >> > ______________________________________________________________> > >> >> > Od: clock at twibright.com> > >> >> > Komu: Twibright Ronja > > >> >> > Datum: 28.08.2006 17:16> > >> >> > P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> > >> >> >> > >> >> >On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 03:49:20PM +0200, Cipis wrote:> > >> >> >> Mno, ten chlap by pot?eboval do dr?ky, to je fakt reprezentace jak bl?zen.> > >> >> >> S t?m datov?m kabelem to nen? a? tak hork? - na t? posledn? fotce hromosvod > jen k????, ostatn? jsem moc ne?tudoval.> > >> >> >> Sp?? to vypad? d?sn? hnusn?, na providera, kter? to d?l? profesion?ln?. I j? > bych dal ten kousek do li?ty a od zdi k t?m cajk?m bu? krk nebo takov? ten > omot?vac? nesmysl.> > >> >> >> > >> >> >For ordinary Ronja it would be just esthetical matter - if the coaxial cable is> > >> >> >outdoor it doesn't matter if it's just thrown on the roof. ?Even if it's not> > >> >> >outdoor it affects just lifetime, not performance. ?Anyway if you install a TV> > >> >> >antenna you also throw the cable on a roof and don't use any plastic ducts.> > >> >> >> > >> >> >RyS is using TP. TP can rot through on the weather and the signal inside UTP> > >> >> >can be affected electromagnetically by pooling water even without insulation> > >> >> >breach. ?That's why I didn't put TP cable into the guide. In case of a TP cable> > >> >> >plastic ducts can have a technical benefit.> > >> >> >> > >> >> >When we installed Ronja we used outdoor coaxials and left them just lying on> > >> >> >the tin roof. Sometimes we used plastic ties to bundle cables together.> > >> >> >> > >> >> >CL<> > >> >> > > > >> _______________________________________________> > >> >> Ronja mailing list> > >> >> Ronja at lists.pointless.net> > >> >> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >_______________________________________________> > >> >Ronja mailing list> > >> >Ronja at lists.pointless.net> > >> >http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> > >> > > > > > >> _______________________________________________> > >> Ronja mailing list> > >> Ronja at lists.pointless.net> > >> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> > >> > >> > >_______________________________________________> > >Ronja mailing list> > >Ronja at lists.pointless.net> > >http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________> > Ronja mailing list> > Ronja at lists.pointless.net> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> > > > > ------------------------------> > Message: 3> Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 15:31:37 +0200> From: Karel Kulhavy > Subject: Re: [Ronja] ronja> To: Mark Oldham > Cc: Twibright Ronja > Message-ID: <20060830133137.GA20676 at kestrel.twibright.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii> > On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 12:27:28PM +0100, Mark Oldham wrote:> > hello karel> > > > i came accross this http://ronja.twibright.com/models.php> > > > im very interested in prices> > I am just developing and publishing, not manufacturing and selling. But someone> on mailing list said he wants to sell a used device.> > > > > if i understand correct you can transmit ethernet data transparently with> > this method> > yes.> > CL<> > > > best regards> > > > mark> > > > ------------------------------> > Message: 4> Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 18:25:58 +0200> From: Karel Kulhavy > Subject: Re: [Ronja] [SPAM] Re: ronja> To: marko > Cc: Twibright Ronja > Message-ID: <20060830162558.GB1857 at kestrel.twibright.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii> > On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 03:55:46PM +0100, marko wrote:> > I am just developing and publishing, not manufacturing and selling. But > > someone> > >on mailing list said he wants to sell a used device.> > > > do you have this persons contact details> > I don't remember. But I sent the reply there so if he's interested I guess> he'll write you. He's from Czech Republic. Maybe there were even two persons> like this, I am not sure.> > CL<> > > > thanks> > mark> > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Karel Kulhavy" > > To: "Mark Oldham" > > Cc: "Twibright Ronja" > > Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 2:31 PM> > Subject: [SPAM] Re: ronja> > > > > > >On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 12:27:28PM +0100, Mark Oldham wrote:> > >>hello karel> > >>> > >>i came accross this http://ronja.twibright.com/models.php> > >>> > >>im very interested in prices> > >> > >I am just developing and publishing, not manufacturing and selling. But > > >someone> > >on mailing list said he wants to sell a used device.> > >> > >>> > >>if i understand correct you can transmit ethernet data transparently with> > >>this method> > >> > >yes.> > >> > >CL<> > >>> > >>best regards> > >>> > >>mark > > > > ------------------------------> > Message: 5> Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 19:13:14 +0200> From: "-=RYS=-" > Subject: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> To: > Message-ID: <200608301913.1144 at centrum.cz>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250"> > Kolem celeho kabelu.> > ______________________________________________________________> > Od: clock at twibright.com> > Komu: Twibright Ronja > > Datum: 30.08.2006 14:30> > P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> >> >On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 12:34:24PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote:> >> Je to podobne jako venkovnimu koaxu, 2x "buzirka" okolo.> >> >Ta dvojita buzirka je kolem kazdyho dratku a nebo kolem celyho toho kabelu?> >> >CL<> >> Napsano tam neni nic, ale odhaduji, ze je to pro ven.> >> Martin> >> > ______________________________________________________________> >> > Od: clock at twibright.com> >> > Komu: Twibright Ronja > >> > Datum: 30.08.2006 00:16> >> > P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> >> >> >> >On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 11:46:33PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote:> >> >> Ten venkovni UTP ma drat 0.62mm a dvojitou "buzirku" okolo "dratu". Taky> >> >> "buzirka" okolo dratu je silnejsi.> >> >> >> >A je na tom natisteno "outdoor" nebo to vyrobce v katalogu uvadi? Aby> >> >to nebyla nejaka ustni tradice - zatim se mi te legende o existenci> >> >venkovniho UTP/STP moc verit nechce.> >> >> >> >CL<> >> >> Taky to ma dvojitej plast obal.> >> >> Vim, ze existuje i STP verze.> >> >> Ja to mam od znameho....kde to sehnal..nevim.> >> >> Ale mam dojem, ze jsem to videl v katalogu Alfatroniku.> >> >> Martin> >> >> > > ______________________________________________________________> >> >> > Od: clock at twibright.com> >> >> > Komu: Twibright Ronja > >> >> > Datum: 28.08.2006 22:02> >> >> > P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> >> >> >> >> >> >On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 09:01:06PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote:> >> >> >> > Vse je v provedeni venkovnim.> >> >> >> Ano, existuje i UTP pro venkovni provedeni.> >> >> >> >> >> >Can you get STP for outdoor? If yes, where? Or at least where you can get> >> >> >the outdoor UTP?> >> >> >> >> >> >CL<> >> >> >> Filtr do 40MHz proti ruseni jsem samozrejme udelal.> >> >> >> I kdyz si myslim, ze za 78S15 nic "neleze" (meril jsem to) .> >> >> >> Martin> >> >> >> > ______________________________________________________________> >> >> >> > Od: clock at twibright.com> >> >> >> > Komu: Twibright Ronja > >> >> >> > Datum: 28.08.2006 17:16> >> >> >> > P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 03:49:20PM +0200, Cipis wrote:> >> >> >> >> Mno, ten chlap by pot?eboval do dr?ky, to je fakt reprezentace jak bl?zen.> >> >> >> >> S t?m datov?m kabelem to nen? a? tak hork? - na t? posledn? fotce hromosvod > jen k????, ostatn? jsem moc ne?tudoval.> >> >> >> >> Sp?? to vypad? d?sn? hnusn?, na providera, kter? to d?l? profesion?ln?. I j? > bych dal ten kousek do li?ty a od zdi k t?m cajk?m bu? krk nebo takov? ten > omot?vac? nesmysl.> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >For ordinary Ronja it would be just esthetical matter - if the coaxial cable is> >> >> >> >outdoor it doesn't matter if it's just thrown on the roof. ?Even if it's not> >> >> >> >outdoor it affects just lifetime, not performance. ?Anyway if you install a TV> >> >> >> >antenna you also throw the cable on a roof and don't use any plastic ducts.> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >RyS is using TP. TP can rot through on the weather and the signal inside UTP> >> >> >> >can be affected electromagnetically by pooling water even without insulation> >> >> >> >breach. ?That's why I didn't put TP cable into the guide. In case of a TP cable> >> >> >> >plastic ducts can have a technical benefit.> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >When we installed Ronja we used outdoor coaxials and left them just lying on> >> >> >> >the tin roof. Sometimes we used plastic ties to bundle cables together.> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >CL<> >> >> >> > > > >> _______________________________________________> >> >> >> Ronja mailing list> >> >> >> Ronja at lists.pointless.net> >> >> >> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >_______________________________________________> >> >> >Ronja mailing list> >> >> >Ronja at lists.pointless.net> >> >> >http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> >> >> > > > > >> _______________________________________________> >> >> Ronja mailing list> >> >> Ronja at lists.pointless.net> >> >> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> >> >> >> >> >> >_______________________________________________> >> >Ronja mailing list> >> >Ronja at lists.pointless.net> >> >http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> >> > > > > >> _______________________________________________> >> Ronja mailing list> >> Ronja at lists.pointless.net> >> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> >> >> >_______________________________________________> >Ronja mailing list> >Ronja at lists.pointless.net> >http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> > > > -------------- next part --------------> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...> URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20060830/14e45f9f/attachment.html > > ------------------------------> > _______________________________________________> Ronja mailing list> Ronja at lists.pointless.net> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> > > End of Ronja Digest, Vol 40, Issue 22> ************************************* _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself with gadgets on Windows Live Spaces http://discoverspaces.live.com?source=hmtag1&loc=us -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20060830/7a432727/attachment-0001.html From info at martenvijn.nl Thu Aug 31 08:02:37 2006 From: info at martenvijn.nl (Marten) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 09:02:37 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] ronja as backbone In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1157007757.741.9.camel@workstation.martenvijn.nl> On Wed, 2006-08-30 at 22:34 -0400, kqj rocks wrote: > > what is the total internet speed a cilent recieves when connecting > to this > wi-fi mesh network??? typical mesh divides bandwith / hop after first hop 5 Mb/s after second hop 2 Mb/s after 3th hop 1 Mb/s after 4th hop 500k afert 5th or more your more boadcasting/routing traffic than other on the other hand a wireless bone can have higher speeds. see wirelessleiden.nl there is some info in English I have measured 18 Mb/s down/up over a 11a link on soekris 4826 boards. and atheros Cards. kind regards Marten > From cd930 at centrum.cz Thu Aug 31 11:19:45 2006 From: cd930 at centrum.cz (-=RYS=-) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 12:19:45 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] Dalsi linka In-Reply-To: <20060830172611.GA23157@kestrel.twibright.com> References: 200608301234.9970@centrum.cz> <200608301913.1144@centrum.cz> <20060830172611.GA23157@kestrel.twibright.com> Message-ID: <200608311219.32257@centrum.cz> Prvni vada ASCI cestiny :))) Samozrejme jsem myslel "dr?t?". Martin ______________________________________________________________ > Od: clock na twibright.com > Komu: Twibright Ronja > Datum: 30.08.2006 19:26 > P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka > >On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 07:13:14PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote: >> Kolem celeho kabelu. > >Aha tak to jo, ja to puvodne pochopil ze kolem kazdyho dratku >("a dvojitou "buzirku" okolo "dratu"") > >CL< > >> > ______________________________________________________________ >> > Od: clock na twibright.com >> > Komu: Twibright Ronja >> > Datum: 30.08.2006 14:30 >> > P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka >> > >> >On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 12:34:24PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote: >> >> Je to podobne jako venkovnimu koaxu, 2x "buzirka" okolo. >> > >> >Ta dvojita buzirka je kolem kazdyho dratku a nebo kolem celyho toho kabelu? >> > >> >CL< >> >> Napsano tam neni nic, ale odhaduji, ze je to pro ven. >> >> Martin >> >> > ______________________________________________________________ >> >> > Od: clock na twibright.com >> >> > Komu: Twibright Ronja >> >> > Datum: 30.08.2006 00:16 >> >> > P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka >> >> > >> >> >On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 11:46:33PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote: >> >> >> Ten venkovni UTP ma drat 0.62mm a dvojitou "buzirku" okolo "dratu". Taky >> >> >> "buzirka" okolo dratu je silnejsi. >> >> > >> >> >A je na tom natisteno "outdoor" nebo to vyrobce v katalogu uvadi? Aby >> >> >to nebyla nejaka ustni tradice - zatim se mi te legende o existenci >> >> >venkovniho UTP/STP moc verit nechce. >> >> > >> >> >CL< >> >> >> Taky to ma dvojitej plast obal. >> >> >> Vim, ze existuje i STP verze. >> >> >> Ja to mam od znameho....kde to sehnal..nevim. >> >> >> Ale mam dojem, ze jsem to videl v katalogu Alfatroniku. >> >> >> Martin >> >> >> > > ______________________________________________________________ >> >> >> > Od: clock na twibright.com >> >> >> > Komu: Twibright Ronja >> >> >> > Datum: 28.08.2006 22:02 >> >> >> > P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka >> >> >> > >> >> >> >On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 09:01:06PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote: >> >> >> >> > Vse je v provedeni venkovnim. >> >> >> >> Ano, existuje i UTP pro venkovni provedeni. >> >> >> > >> >> >> >Can you get STP for outdoor? If yes, where? Or at least where you can get >> >> >> >the outdoor UTP? >> >> >> > >> >> >> >CL< >> >> >> >> Filtr do 40MHz proti ruseni jsem samozrejme udelal. >> >> >> >> I kdyz si myslim, ze za 78S15 nic "neleze" (meril jsem to) . >> >> >> >> Martin >> >> >> >> > ______________________________________________________________ >> >> >> >> > Od: clock na twibright.com >> >> >> >> > Komu: Twibright Ronja >> >> >> >> > Datum: 28.08.2006 17:16 >> >> >> >> > P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 03:49:20PM +0200, Cipis wrote: >> >> >> >> >> Mno, ten chlap by pot?eboval do dr?ky, to je fakt reprezentace jak bl?zen. >> >> >> >> >> S t?m datov?m kabelem to nen? a? tak hork? - na t? posledn? fotce hromosvod > jen k????, ostatn? jsem moc ne?tudoval. >> >> >> >> >> Sp?? to vypad? d?sn? hnusn?, na providera, kter? to d?l? profesion?ln?. I j? > bych dal ten kousek do li?ty a od zdi k t?m cajk?m bu? krk nebo takov? ten > omot?vac? nesmysl. >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >For ordinary Ronja it would be just esthetical matter - if the coaxial cable is >> >> >> >> >outdoor it doesn't matter if it's just thrown on the roof. ?Even if it's not >> >> >> >> >outdoor it affects just lifetime, not performance. ?Anyway if you install a TV >> >> >> >> >antenna you also throw the cable on a roof and don't use any plastic ducts. >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >RyS is using TP. TP can rot through on the weather and the signal inside UTP >> >> >> >> >can be affected electromagnetically by pooling water even without insulation >> >> >> >> >breach. ?That's why I didn't put TP cable into the guide. In case of a TP cable >> >> >> >> >plastic ducts can have a technical benefit. >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >When we installed Ronja we used outdoor coaxials and left them just lying on >> >> >> >> >the tin roof. Sometimes we used plastic ties to bundle cables together. >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >CL< >> >> >> >> > > > >> _______________________________________________ >> >> >> >> Ronja mailing list >> >> >> >> Ronja na lists.pointless.net >> >> >> >> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> >_______________________________________________ >> >> >> >Ronja mailing list >> >> >> >Ronja na lists.pointless.net >> >> >> >http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja >> >> >> > > > > >> _______________________________________________ >> >> >> Ronja mailing list >> >> >> Ronja na lists.pointless.net >> >> >> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >_______________________________________________ >> >> >Ronja mailing list >> >> >Ronja na lists.pointless.net >> >> >http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja >> >> > > > > >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Ronja mailing list >> >> Ronja na lists.pointless.net >> >> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja >> > >> > >> >_______________________________________________ >> >Ronja mailing list >> >Ronja na lists.pointless.net >> >http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja >> > > >> _______________________________________________ >> Ronja mailing list >> Ronja na lists.pointless.net >> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > >_______________________________________________ >Ronja mailing list >Ronja na lists.pointless.net >http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > ------------- dal?? ??st --------------- HTML p??loha byla odstran?na... URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20060831/fa2c255a/attachment.html From clock at twibright.com Thu Aug 31 11:25:16 2006 From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 12:25:16 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] ronja as backbone In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20060831102515.GA856@kestrel.twibright.com> Yes you can aggregate the bandwidths together. But I think if it's not possible that the network distributes the packets into the links. With OSPF or BGP this is surely not possible as they choose always only one way for the data. You could maybe link aggregation over a virtual link created by tunnel Linux could support this. Otherwise there may be some advanced, new or experimental protocols I don't know about. If you have large or complicated enough network the traffic could balance itself stochastically even with OSPF and BGP - data want to go the shortest way and what is the shortest for one destination is not shortest for another. CL< On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 10:34:43PM -0400, kqj rocks wrote: > I know the ronja can be used as an ethernet based internet backbone. If this is true will I be able to use them for an internet backhaul system to hop data from ronja to ronja and increase speed of internet data transfer to route internet data over a mesh network. since the ronja can be used as an internet backbone can it be used to act as a 10mbps backbone for an ultra-high speed network where the internet speed of the wireless network is 10mbps x number of ronjas plus the speed of the mesh network's internet connection 11mbps??? what is the total internet speed a cilent recieves when connecting to this wi-fi mesh network???> From: ronja-request at lists.pointless.net> Subject: Ronja Digest, Vol 40, Issue 22> To: ronja at lists.pointless.net> Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 18:13:52 +0100> > Send Ronja mailing list submissions to> ronja at lists.pointless.net> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to> ronja-request at lists.pointless.net> > You can reach the person managing the list at> ronja-owner at lists.pointless.net> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific> than "Re: Contents of Ronja digest..."> > > Today's Topics:> > 1. Re: Dalsi linka (Jakub Sykora)> 2. Re: Dalsi linka (Karel Kulhavy)> 3. Re: ronja (Karel Kulhavy)> 4. Re: [SPAM] Re: ronja (Karel Kulhavy)> 5. Re: Dalsi linka (-=RYS=-)> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------> > Message: 1> Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 13:33:21 +0200> From: Jakub Sykora > Subject: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> To: Twibright Ronja > Message-ID: <44F57781.1050800 at kbx.cz>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2"> > Ne to nedelaji. Stejne tak jsem nevidel kabel odolny proti blbcum :)> > K> > Karel Kulhavy napsal(a):> > On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 12:33:44AM +0200, Jakub Sykora wrote:> >> Mno kabely se takovy urcite delaji - staci se podivat treba do katalogu > >> Beldenu na kbaely DataTuff, ktere jsou pro prumyslove uziti a jejich > >> vrchni slupka se dela v provedenich: odolne proti UV, proti Mazivum, > >> proti Chemikaliim atp...> > > > Delaj taky odolnou proti Chuckovi Norrisovi a Jacku Bauerovi?> > > > CL<> >> Ale nechci ani vedet kolik toho stoji metr...> >>> >> K> >>> >> Karel Kulhavy napsal(a):> >>> On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 11:46:33PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote:> >>>> Ten venkovni UTP ma drat 0.62mm a dvojitou "buzirku" okolo "dratu". Taky> >>>> "buzirka" okolo dratu je silnejsi.> >>> A je na tom natisteno "outdoor" nebo to vyrobce v katalogu uvadi? Aby> >>> to nebyla nejaka ustni tradice - zatim se mi te legende o existenci> >>> venkovniho UTP/STP moc verit nechce.> >>>> >>> CL<> >>>> Taky to ma dvojitej plast obal.> >>>> Vim, ze existuje i STP verze.> >>>> Ja to mam od znameho....kde to sehnal..nevim.> >>>> Ale mam dojem, ze jsem to videl v katalogu Alfatroniku.> >>>> Martin> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> ______________________________________________________________> >>>>> Od: clock at twibright.com> >>>>> Komu: Twibright Ronja > >>>>> Datum: 28.08.2006 22:02> >>>>> P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> >>>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 09:01:06PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote:> >>>>>>> Vse je v provedeni venkovnim.> >>>>>> Ano, existuje i UTP pro venkovni provedeni.> >>>>> Can you get STP for outdoor? If yes, where? Or at least where you can get> >>>>> the outdoor UTP?> >>>>>> >>>>> CL<> >>>>>> Filtr do 40MHz proti ruseni jsem samozrejme udelal.> >>>>>> I kdyz si myslim, ze za 78S15 nic "neleze" (meril jsem to) .> >>>>>> Martin> >>>>>>> ______________________________________________________________> >>>>>>> Od: clock at twibright.com> >>>>>>> Komu: Twibright Ronja > >>>>>>> Datum: 28.08.2006 17:16> >>>>>>> P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 03:49:20PM +0200, Cipis wrote:> >>>>>>>> Mno, ten chlap by pot?eboval do dr?ky, to je fakt reprezentace jak > >>>>>>>> bl?zen.> >>>>>>>> S t?m datov?m kabelem to nen? a? tak hork? - na t? posledn? fotce > >>>>>>>> hromosvod > jen k????, ostatn? jsem moc ne?tudoval.> >>>>>>>> Sp?? to vypad? d?sn? hnusn?, na providera, kter? to d?l? > >>>>>>>> profesion?ln?. I j? > bych dal ten kousek do li?ty a od zdi k t?m > >>>>>>>> cajk?m bu? krk nebo takov? ten > omot?vac? nesmysl.> >>>>>>> For ordinary Ronja it would be just esthetical matter - if the coaxial > >>>>>>> cable is> >>>>>>> outdoor it doesn't matter if it's just thrown on the roof. Even if > >>>>>>> it's not> >>>>>>> outdoor it affects just lifetime, not performance. Anyway if you > >>>>>>> install a TV> >>>>>>> antenna you also throw the cable on a roof and don't use any plastic > >>>>>>> ducts.> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> RyS is using TP. TP can rot through on the weather and the signal > >>>>>>> inside UTP> >>>>>>> can be affected electromagnetically by pooling water even without > >>>>>>> insulation> >>>>>>> breach. That's why I didn't put TP cable into the guide. In case of a > >>>>>>> TP cable> >>>>>>> plastic ducts can have a technical benefit.> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> When we installed Ronja we used outdoor coaxials and left them just > >>>>>>> lying on> >>>>>>> the tin roof. Sometimes we used plastic ties to bundle cables together.> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> CL<> >>>>>> _______________________________________________> >>>>>> Ronja mailing list> >>>>>> Ronja at lists.pointless.net> >>>>>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> >>>>> _______________________________________________> >>>>> Ronja mailing list> >>>>> Ronja at lists.pointless.net> >>>>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> >>>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________> >>>> Ronja mailing list> >>>> Ronja at lists.pointless.net> >>>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________> >>> Ronja mailing list> >>> Ronja at lists.pointless.net> >>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> >> -- > >> Jakub S?kora> >> email: kubajz at kbx.cz <')> >> ICQ: 68976632 ( =-> >> mobil: +420 777 594 201 ''> > > >> begin:vcard> >> fn;quoted-printable:Jakub S=C3=BDkora> >> n;quoted-printable:S=C3=BDkora;Jakub> >> adr;quoted-printable:;;=C3=9Adoln=C3=AD 1273;Praha 4;;14200;Czech Republic> >> email;internet:kubajz at kbx.cz> >> tel;cell:+420 777 594 201> >> url:http://kubajz.kbx.cz> >> version:2.1> >> end:vcard> >>> > > >> _______________________________________________> >> Ronja mailing list> >> Ronja at lists.pointless.net> >> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> > > > > > _______________________________________________> > Ronja mailing list> > Ronja at lists.pointless.net> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> > -- > Jakub S?kora> email: kubajz at kbx.cz <')> ICQ: 68976632 ( =-> mobil: +420 777 594 201 ''> -------------- next part --------------> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...> Name: kubajz.vcf> Type: text/x-vcard> Size: 265 bytes> Desc: not available> Url : http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20060830/5847c7ac/attachment-0001.vcf > > ------------------------------> > Message: 2> Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 14:29:53 +0200> From: Karel Kulhavy > Subject: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> To: Twibright Ronja > Message-ID: <20060830122953.GA19221 at kestrel.twibright.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1> > On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 12:34:24PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote:> > Je to podobne jako venkovnimu koaxu, 2x "buzirka" okolo.> > Ta dvojita buzirka je kolem kazdyho dratku a nebo kolem celyho toho kabelu?> > CL<> > Napsano tam neni nic, ale odhaduji, ze je to pro ven.> > Martin> > > > ______________________________________________________________> > > Od: clock at twibright.com> > > Komu: Twibright Ronja > > > Datum: 30.08.2006 00:16> > > P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> > >> > >On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 11:46:33PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote:> > >> Ten venkovni UTP ma drat 0.62mm a dvojitou "buzirku" okolo "dratu". Taky> > >> "buzirka" okolo dratu je silnejsi.> > >> > >A je na tom natisteno "outdoor" nebo to vyrobce v katalogu uvadi? Aby> > >to nebyla nejaka ustni tradice - zatim se mi te legende o existenci> > >venkovniho UTP/STP moc verit nechce.> > >> > >CL<> > >> Taky to ma dvojitej plast obal.> > >> Vim, ze existuje i STP verze.> > >> Ja to mam od znameho....kde to sehnal..nevim.> > >> Ale mam dojem, ze jsem to videl v katalogu Alfatroniku.> > >> Martin> > >> > > ______________________________________________________________> > >> > Od: clock at twibright.com> > >> > Komu: Twibright Ronja > > >> > Datum: 28.08.2006 22:02> > >> > P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> > >> >> > >> >On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 09:01:06PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote:> > >> >> > Vse je v provedeni venkovnim.> > >> >> Ano, existuje i UTP pro venkovni provedeni.> > >> >> > >> >Can you get STP for outdoor? If yes, where? Or at least where you can get> > >> >the outdoor UTP?> > >> >> > >> >CL<> > >> >> Filtr do 40MHz proti ruseni jsem samozrejme udelal.> > >> >> I kdyz si myslim, ze za 78S15 nic "neleze" (meril jsem to) .> > >> >> Martin> > >> >> > ______________________________________________________________> > >> >> > Od: clock at twibright.com> > >> >> > Komu: Twibright Ronja > > >> >> > Datum: 28.08.2006 17:16> > >> >> > P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> > >> >> >> > >> >> >On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 03:49:20PM +0200, Cipis wrote:> > >> >> >> Mno, ten chlap by pot?eboval do dr?ky, to je fakt reprezentace jak bl?zen.> > >> >> >> S t?m datov?m kabelem to nen? a? tak hork? - na t? posledn? fotce hromosvod > jen k????, ostatn? jsem moc ne?tudoval.> > >> >> >> Sp?? to vypad? d?sn? hnusn?, na providera, kter? to d?l? profesion?ln?. I j? > bych dal ten kousek do li?ty a od zdi k t?m cajk?m bu? krk nebo takov? ten > omot?vac? nesmysl.> > >> >> >> > >> >> >For ordinary Ronja it would be just esthetical matter - if the coaxial cable is> > >> >> >outdoor it doesn't matter if it's just thrown on the roof. ?Even if it's not> > >> >> >outdoor it affects just lifetime, not performance. ?Anyway if you install a TV> > >> >> >antenna you also throw the cable on a roof and don't use any plastic ducts.> > >> >> >> > >> >> >RyS is using TP. TP can rot through on the weather and the signal inside UTP> > >> >> >can be affected electromagnetically by pooling water even without insulation> > >> >> >breach. ?That's why I didn't put TP cable into the guide. In case of a TP cable> > >> >> >plastic ducts can have a technical benefit.> > >> >> >> > >> >> >When we installed Ronja we used outdoor coaxials and left them just lying on> > >> >> >the tin roof. Sometimes we used plastic ties to bundle cables together.> > >> >> >> > >> >> >CL<> > >> >> > > > >> _______________________________________________> > >> >> Ronja mailing list> > >> >> Ronja at lists.pointless.net> > >> >> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >_______________________________________________> > >> >Ronja mailing list> > >> >Ronja at lists.pointless.net> > >> >http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> > >> > > > > > >> _______________________________________________> > >> Ronja mailing list> > >> Ronja at lists.pointless.net> > >> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> > >> > >> > >_______________________________________________> > >Ronja mailing list> > >Ronja at lists.pointless.net> > >http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________> > Ronja mailing list> > Ronja at lists.pointless.net> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> > > > > ------------------------------> > Message: 3> Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 15:31:37 +0200> From: Karel Kulhavy > Subject: Re: [Ronja] ronja> To: Mark Oldham > Cc: Twibright Ronja > Message-ID: <20060830133137.GA20676 at kestrel.twibright.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii> > On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 12:27:28PM +0100, Mark Oldham wrote:> > hello karel> > > > i came accross this http://ronja.twibright.com/models.php> > > > im very interested in prices> > I am just developing and publishing, not manufacturing and selling. But someone> on mailing list said he wants to sell a used device.> > > > > if i understand correct you can transmit ethernet data transparently with> > this method> > yes.> > CL<> > > > best regards> > > > mark> > > > ------------------------------> > Message: 4> Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 18:25:58 +0200> From: Karel Kulhavy > Subject: Re: [Ronja] [SPAM] Re: ronja> To: marko > Cc: Twibright Ronja > Message-ID: <20060830162558.GB1857 at kestrel.twibright.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii> > On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 03:55:46PM +0100, marko wrote:> > I am just developing and publishing, not manufacturing and selling. But > > someone> > >on mailing list said he wants to sell a used device.> > > > do you have this persons contact details> > I don't remember. But I sent the reply there so if he's interested I guess> he'll write you. He's from Czech Republic. Maybe there were even two persons> like this, I am not sure.> > CL<> > > > thanks> > mark> > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Karel Kulhavy" > > To: "Mark Oldham" > > Cc: "Twibright Ronja" > > Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 2:31 PM> > Subject: [SPAM] Re: ronja> > > > > > >On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 12:27:28PM +0100, Mark Oldham wrote:> > >>hello karel> > >>> > >>i came accross this http://ronja.twibright.com/models.php> > >>> > >>im very interested in prices> > >> > >I am just developing and publishing, not manufacturing and selling. But > > >someone> > >on mailing list said he wants to sell a used device.> > >> > >>> > >>if i understand correct you can transmit ethernet data transparently with> > >>this method> > >> > >yes.> > >> > >CL<> > >>> > >>best regards> > >>> > >>mark > > > > ------------------------------> > Message: 5> Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 19:13:14 +0200> From: "-=RYS=-" > Subject: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> To: > Message-ID: <200608301913.1144 at centrum.cz>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250"> > Kolem celeho kabelu.> > ______________________________________________________________> > Od: clock at twibright.com> > Komu: Twibright Ronja > > Datum: 30.08.2006 14:30> > P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> >> >On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 12:34:24PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote:> >> Je to podobne jako venkovnimu koaxu, 2x "buzirka" okolo.> >> >Ta dvojita buzirka je kolem kazdyho dratku a nebo kolem celyho toho kabelu?> >> >CL<> >> Napsano tam neni nic, ale odhaduji, ze je to pro ven.> >> Martin> >> > ______________________________________________________________> >> > Od: clock at twibright.com> >> > Komu: Twibright Ronja > >> > Datum: 30.08.2006 00:16> >> > P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> >> >> >> >On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 11:46:33PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote:> >> >> Ten venkovni UTP ma drat 0.62mm a dvojitou "buzirku" okolo "dratu". Taky> >> >> "buzirka" okolo dratu je silnejsi.> >> >> >> >A je na tom natisteno "outdoor" nebo to vyrobce v katalogu uvadi? Aby> >> >to nebyla nejaka ustni tradice - zatim se mi te legende o existenci> >> >venkovniho UTP/STP moc verit nechce.> >> >> >> >CL<> >> >> Taky to ma dvojitej plast obal.> >> >> Vim, ze existuje i STP verze.> >> >> Ja to mam od znameho....kde to sehnal..nevim.> >> >> Ale mam dojem, ze jsem to videl v katalogu Alfatroniku.> >> >> Martin> >> >> > > ______________________________________________________________> >> >> > Od: clock at twibright.com> >> >> > Komu: Twibright Ronja > >> >> > Datum: 28.08.2006 22:02> >> >> > P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> >> >> >> >> >> >On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 09:01:06PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote:> >> >> >> > Vse je v provedeni venkovnim.> >> >> >> Ano, existuje i UTP pro venkovni provedeni.> >> >> >> >> >> >Can you get STP for outdoor? If yes, where? Or at least where you can get> >> >> >the outdoor UTP?> >> >> >> >> >> >CL<> >> >> >> Filtr do 40MHz proti ruseni jsem samozrejme udelal.> >> >> >> I kdyz si myslim, ze za 78S15 nic "neleze" (meril jsem to) .> >> >> >> Martin> >> >> >> > ______________________________________________________________> >> >> >> > Od: clock at twibright.com> >> >> >> > Komu: Twibright Ronja > >> >> >> > Datum: 28.08.2006 17:16> >> >> >> > P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 03:49:20PM +0200, Cipis wrote:> >> >> >> >> Mno, ten chlap by pot?eboval do dr?ky, to je fakt reprezentace jak bl?zen.> >> >> >> >> S t?m datov?m kabelem to nen? a? tak hork? - na t? posledn? fotce hromosvod > jen k????, ostatn? jsem moc ne?tudoval.> >> >> >> >> Sp?? to vypad? d?sn? hnusn?, na providera, kter? to d?l? profesion?ln?. I j? > bych dal ten kousek do li?ty a od zdi k t?m cajk?m bu? krk nebo takov? ten > omot?vac? nesmysl.> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >For ordinary Ronja it would be just esthetical matter - if the coaxial cable is> >> >> >> >outdoor it doesn't matter if it's just thrown on the roof. ?Even if it's not> >> >> >> >outdoor it affects just lifetime, not performance. ?Anyway if you install a TV> >> >> >> >antenna you also throw the cable on a roof and don't use any plastic ducts.> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >RyS is using TP. TP can rot through on the weather and the signal inside UTP> >> >> >> >can be affected electromagnetically by pooling water even without insulation> >> >> >> >breach. ?That's why I didn't put TP cable into the guide. In case of a TP cable> >> >> >> >plastic ducts can have a technical benefit.> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >When we installed Ronja we used outdoor coaxials and left them just lying on> >> >> >> >the tin roof. Sometimes we used plastic ties to bundle cables together.> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >CL<> >> >> >> > > > >> _______________________________________________> >> >> >> Ronja mailing list> >> >> >> Ronja at lists.pointless.net> >> >> >> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >_______________________________________________> >> >> >Ronja mailing list> >> >> >Ronja at lists.pointless.net> >> >> >http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> >> >> > > > > >> _______________________________________________> >> >> Ronja mailing list> >> >> Ronja at lists.pointless.net> >> >> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> >> >> >> >> >> >_______________________________________________> >> >Ronja mailing list> >> >Ronja at lists.pointless.net> >> >http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> >> > > > > >> _______________________________________________> >> Ronja mailing list> >> Ronja at lists.pointless.net> >> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> >> >> >_______________________________________________> >Ronja mailing list> >Ronja at lists.pointless.net> >http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> > > > -------------- next part --------------> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...> URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20060830/14e45f9f/attachment.html > > ------------------------------> > _______________________________________________> Ronja mailing list> Ronja at lists.pointless.net> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> > > End of Ronja Digest, Vol 40, Issue 22> ************************************* > _________________________________________________________________ > Express yourself with gadgets on Windows Live Spaces > http://discoverspaces.live.com?source=hmtag1&loc=us > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja at lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From kubajz at kbx.cz Thu Aug 31 12:08:37 2006 From: kubajz at kbx.cz (Jakub Sykora) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 13:08:37 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] ronja as backbone In-Reply-To: <20060831102515.GA856@kestrel.twibright.com> References: <20060831102515.GA856@kestrel.twibright.com> Message-ID: <44F6C335.2010404@kbx.cz> Some advanced switches support multiple ports to be aggregated. I did not try it although we have some in our network... K Karel Kulhavy napsal(a): > Yes you can aggregate the bandwidths together. But I think if it's not possible > that the network distributes the packets into the links. With OSPF or BGP > this is surely not possible as they choose always only one way for the data. > > You could maybe link aggregation over a virtual link created by tunnel > Linux could support this. Otherwise there may be some advanced, new or > experimental protocols I don't know about. > > If you have large or complicated enough network the traffic could balance > itself stochastically even with OSPF and BGP - data want to go the shortest way > and what is the shortest for one destination is not shortest for another. > > CL< > > On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 10:34:43PM -0400, kqj rocks wrote: >> I know the ronja can be used as an ethernet based internet backbone. If this is true will I be able to use them for an internet backhaul system to hop data from ronja to ronja and increase speed of internet data transfer to route internet data over a mesh network. since the ronja can be used as an internet backbone can it be used to act as a 10mbps backbone for an ultra-high speed network where the internet speed of the wireless network is 10mbps x number of ronjas plus the speed of the mesh network's internet connection 11mbps??? what is the total internet speed a cilent recieves when connecting to this wi-fi mesh network???> From: ronja-request na lists.pointless.net> Subject: Ronja Digest, Vol 40, Issue 22> To: ronja na lists.pointless.net> Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 18:13:52 +0100> > Send Ronja mailing list submissions to> ronja na lists.pointless.net> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> or, via email, se nd a message with subject or body 'help' to> ronja-request na lists.pointless.net> > You can reach the person managing the list at> ronja-owner na lists.pointless.net> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific> than "Re: Contents of Ronja digest..."> > > Today's Topics:> > 1. Re: Dalsi linka (Jakub Sykora)> 2. Re: Dalsi linka (Karel Kulhavy)> 3. Re: ronja (Karel Kulhavy)> 4. Re: [SPAM] Re: ronja (Karel Kulhavy)> 5. Re: Dalsi linka (-=RYS=-)> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------> > Message: 1> Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 13:33:21 +0200> From: Jakub Sykora > Subject: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> To: Twibright Ronja > Message-ID: <44F57781.1050800 na kbx.cz>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2"> > Ne to nedelaji. Stejne tak jsem nevidel kabel odolny proti blbcum :)> > K> > Karel Kulhavy napsal(a):> > On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 12:33:44AM +0200, Jakub Sykora wro te:> >> Mno kabely se takovy urcite delaji - staci se podivat treba do katalogu > >> Beldenu na kbaely DataTuff, ktere jsou pro prumyslove uziti a jejich > >> vrchni slupka se dela v provedenich: odolne proti UV, proti Mazivum, > >> proti Chemikaliim atp...> > > > Delaj taky odolnou proti Chuckovi Norrisovi a Jacku Bauerovi?> > > > CL<> >> Ale nechci ani vedet kolik toho stoji metr...> >>> >> K> >>> >> Karel Kulhavy napsal(a):> >>> On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 11:46:33PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote:> >>>> Ten venkovni UTP ma drat 0.62mm a dvojitou "buzirku" okolo "dratu". Taky> >>>> "buzirka" okolo dratu je silnejsi.> >>> A je na tom natisteno "outdoor" nebo to vyrobce v katalogu uvadi? Aby> >>> to nebyla nejaka ustni tradice - zatim se mi te legende o existenci> >>> venkovniho UTP/STP moc verit nechce.> >>>> >>> CL<> >>>> Taky to ma dvojitej plast obal.> >>>> Vim, ze existuje i STP verze.> >>>> Ja to mam od znameho....kde to sehnal..nevim.> >>>> Ale mam dojem, ze jsem to videl v katalog u Alfatroniku.> >>>> Martin> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> ______________________________________________________________> >>>>> Od: clock na twibright.com> >>>>> Komu: Twibright Ronja > >>>>> Datum: 28.08.2006 22:02> >>>>> P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> >>>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 09:01:06PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote:> >>>>>>> Vse je v provedeni venkovnim.> >>>>>> Ano, existuje i UTP pro venkovni provedeni.> >>>>> Can you get STP for outdoor? If yes, where? Or at least where you can get> >>>>> the outdoor UTP?> >>>>>> >>>>> CL<> >>>>>> Filtr do 40MHz proti ruseni jsem samozrejme udelal.> >>>>>> I kdyz si myslim, ze za 78S15 nic "neleze" (meril jsem to) .> >>>>>> Martin> >>>>>>> ______________________________________________________________> >>>>>>> Od: clock na twibright.com> >>>>>>> Komu: Twibright Ronja > >>>>>>> Datum: 28.08.2006 17:16> >>>>>>> P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 03:49:20PM + 0200, Cipis wrote:> >>>>>>>> Mno, ten chlap by pot?eboval do dr?ky, to je fakt reprezentace jak > >>>>>>>> bl?zen.> >>>>>>>> S t?m datov?m kabelem to nen? a? tak hork? - na t? posledn? fotce > >>>>>>>> hromosvod > jen k????, ostatn? jsem moc ne?tudoval.> >>>>>>>> Sp?? to vypad? d?sn? hnusn?, na providera, kter? to d?l? > >>>>>>>> profesion?ln?. I j? > bych dal ten kousek do li?ty a od zdi k t?m > >>>>>>>> cajk?m bu? krk nebo takov? ten > omot?vac? nesmysl.> >>>>>>> For ordinary Ronja it would be just esthetical matter - if the coaxial > >>>>>>> cable is> >>>>>>> outdoor it doesn't matter if it's just thrown on the roof. Even if > >>>>>>> it's not> >>>>>>> outdoor it affects just lifetime, not performance. Anyway if you > >>>>>>> install a TV> >>>>>>> antenna you also throw the cable on a roof and don't use any plastic > >>>>>>> ducts.> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> RyS is using TP. TP can rot through on the weather and the signal > >>>>>>> inside UTP> >>>>>>> can be affected electromagn etically by pooling water even without > >>>>>>> insulation> >>>>>>> breach. That's why I didn't put TP cable into the guide. In case of a > >>>>>>> TP cable> >>>>>>> plastic ducts can have a technical benefit.> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> When we installed Ronja we used outdoor coaxials and left them just > >>>>>>> lying on> >>>>>>> the tin roof. Sometimes we used plastic ties to bundle cables together.> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> CL<> >>>>>> _______________________________________________> >>>>>> Ronja mailing list> >>>>>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net> >>>>>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> >>>>> _______________________________________________> >>>>> Ronja mailing list> >>>>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net> >>>>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> >>>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________> >>>> Ronja mailing list> >>>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net> >>>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________> >>> Ronja mailing list> >>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net> >>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> >> -- > >> Jakub S?kora> >> email: kubajz na kbx.cz <')> >> ICQ: 68976632 ( =-> >> mobil: +420 777 594 201 ''> > > >> begin:vcard> >> fn;quoted-printable:Jakub S=C3=BDkora> >> n;quoted-printable:S=C3=BDkora;Jakub> >> adr;quoted-printable:;;=C3=9Adoln=C3=AD 1273;Praha 4;;14200;Czech Republic> >> email;internet:kubajz na kbx.cz> >> tel;cell:+420 777 594 201> >> url:http://kubajz.kbx.cz> >> version:2.1> >> end:vcard> >>> > > >> _______________________________________________> >> Ronja mailing list> >> Ronja na lists.pointless.net> >> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> > > > > > _______________________________________________> > Ronja mailing list> > Ronja na lists.pointless.net> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> > -- > Jakub S?kora> email: kubajz na kbx.cz <')> ICQ: 68976632 ( =-> mobil: +420 777 594 201 ''> -------------- next part --------------> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...> Name: kubajz.vcf> Type: text/x-vcard> Size: 265 bytes> Desc: not available> Url : http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20060830/5847c7ac/attachment-0001.vcf > > ------------------------------> > Message: 2> Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 14:29:53 +0200> From: Karel Kulhavy > Subject: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> To: Twibright Ronja > Message-ID: <20060830122953.GA19221 na kestrel.twibright.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1> > On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 12:34:24PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote:> > Je to podobne jako venkovnimu koaxu, 2x "buzirka" okolo.> > Ta dvojita buzirka je kolem kazdyho dratku a nebo kolem celyho toho kabelu?> > CL<> > Napsano tam neni nic, ale odhaduji, ze je to pro ven.> > Martin> > > > ______________________________________________________________> > > Od: clock na twibright.com> > > Komu: Twibright Ronja > > > Datum: 30 .08.2006 00:16> > > P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> > >> > >On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 11:46:33PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote:> > >> Ten venkovni UTP ma drat 0.62mm a dvojitou "buzirku" okolo "dratu". Taky> > >> "buzirka" okolo dratu je silnejsi.> > >> > >A je na tom natisteno "outdoor" nebo to vyrobce v katalogu uvadi? Aby> > >to nebyla nejaka ustni tradice - zatim se mi te legende o existenci> > >venkovniho UTP/STP moc verit nechce.> > >> > >CL<> > >> Taky to ma dvojitej plast obal.> > >> Vim, ze existuje i STP verze.> > >> Ja to mam od znameho....kde to sehnal..nevim.> > >> Ale mam dojem, ze jsem to videl v katalogu Alfatroniku.> > >> Martin> > >> > > ______________________________________________________________> > >> > Od: clock na twibright.com> > >> > Komu: Twibright Ronja > > >> > Datum: 28.08.2006 22:02> > >> > P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> > >> >> > >> >On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 09:01:06PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote:> > >> >> > Vse je v provedeni venkovn im.> > >> >> Ano, existuje i UTP pro venkovni provedeni.> > >> >> > >> >Can you get STP for outdoor? If yes, where? Or at least where you can get> > >> >the outdoor UTP?> > >> >> > >> >CL<> > >> >> Filtr do 40MHz proti ruseni jsem samozrejme udelal.> > >> >> I kdyz si myslim, ze za 78S15 nic "neleze" (meril jsem to) .> > >> >> Martin> > >> >> > ______________________________________________________________> > >> >> > Od: clock na twibright.com> > >> >> > Komu: Twibright Ronja > > >> >> > Datum: 28.08.2006 17:16> > >> >> > P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> > >> >> >> > >> >> >On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 03:49:20PM +0200, Cipis wrote:> > >> >> >> Mno, ten chlap by pot?eboval do dr?ky, to je fakt reprezentace jak bl?zen.> > >> >> >> S t?m datov?m kabelem to nen? a? tak hork? - na t? posledn? fotce hromosvod > jen k????, ostatn? jsem moc ne?tudoval.> > >> >> >> Sp?? to vypad? d?sn? hnusn?, na providera, kter? to d?l? profesion?ln?. I j? > bych dal ten kousek d o li?ty a od zdi k t?m cajk?m bu? krk nebo takov? ten > omot?vac? nesmysl.> > >> >> >> > >> >> >For ordinary Ronja it would be just esthetical matter - if the coaxial cable is> > >> >> >outdoor it doesn't matter if it's just thrown on the roof. ?Even if it's not> > >> >> >outdoor it affects just lifetime, not performance. ?Anyway if you install a TV> > >> >> >antenna you also throw the cable on a roof and don't use any plastic ducts.> > >> >> >> > >> >> >RyS is using TP. TP can rot through on the weather and the signal inside UTP> > >> >> >can be affected electromagnetically by pooling water even without insulation> > >> >> >breach. ?That's why I didn't put TP cable into the guide. In case of a TP cable> > >> >> >plastic ducts can have a technical benefit.> > >> >> >> > >> >> >When we installed Ronja we used outdoor coaxials and left them just lying on> > >> >> >the tin roof. Sometimes we used plastic ties to bundle cables together.> > >> >> >> > >> >> >CL<> > >> >> > > > >> _______________________________________________> > >> >> Ronja mailing list> > >> >> Ronja na lists.pointless.net> > >> >> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >_______________________________________________> > >> >Ronja mailing list> > >> >Ronja na lists.pointless.net> > >> >http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> > >> > > > > > >> _______________________________________________> > >> Ronja mailing list> > >> Ronja na lists.pointless.net> > >> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> > >> > >> > >_______________________________________________> > >Ronja mailing list> > >Ronja na lists.pointless.net> > >http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________> > Ronja mailing list> > Ronja na lists.pointless.net> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> > > > > ------------------------------> > Message: 3> Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 15:31:37 +0200> From: Karel Kulhavy > Subjec t: Re: [Ronja] ronja> To: Mark Oldham > Cc: Twibright Ronja > Message-ID: <20060830133137.GA20676 na kestrel.twibright.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii> > On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 12:27:28PM +0100, Mark Oldham wrote:> > hello karel> > > > i came accross this http://ronja.twibright.com/models.php> > > > im very interested in prices> > I am just developing and publishing, not manufacturing and selling. But someone> on mailing list said he wants to sell a used device.> > > > > if i understand correct you can transmit ethernet data transparently with> > this method> > yes.> > CL<> > > > best regards> > > > mark> > > > ------------------------------> > Message: 4> Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 18:25:58 +0200> From: Karel Kulhavy > Subject: Re: [Ronja] [SPAM] Re: ronja> To: marko > Cc: Twibright Ronja > Message-ID: <20060830162558.GB1857 na kestrel.twibrigh t.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii> > On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 03:55:46PM +0100, marko wrote:> > I am just developing and publishing, not manufacturing and selling. But > > someone> > >on mailing list said he wants to sell a used device.> > > > do you have this persons contact details> > I don't remember. But I sent the reply there so if he's interested I guess> he'll write you. He's from Czech Republic. Maybe there were even two persons> like this, I am not sure.> > CL<> > > > thanks> > mark> > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Karel Kulhavy" > > To: "Mark Oldham" > > Cc: "Twibright Ronja" > > Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 2:31 PM> > Subject: [SPAM] Re: ronja> > > > > > >On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 12:27:28PM +0100, Mark Oldham wrote:> > >>hello karel> > >>> > >>i came accross this http://ronja.twibright.com/models.php> > >>> > >>im very interested in prices> > >> > >I am just d eveloping and publishing, not manufacturing and selling. But > > >someone> > >on mailing list said he wants to sell a used device.> > >> > >>> > >>if i understand correct you can transmit ethernet data transparently with> > >>this method> > >> > >yes.> > >> > >CL<> > >>> > >>best regards> > >>> > >>mark > > > > ------------------------------> > Message: 5> Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 19:13:14 +0200> From: "-=RYS=-" > Subject: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> To: > Message-ID: <200608301913.1144 na centrum.cz>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250"> > Kolem celeho kabelu.> > ______________________________________________________________> > Od: clock na twibright.com> > Komu: Twibright Ronja > > Datum: 30.08.2006 14:30> > P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> >> >On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 12:34:24PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote:> >> Je to podobne jako venkovnimu koaxu, 2x "buzirka" okolo.> >> >Ta dvojita buzirka je kolem kazdyho dratku a nebo kolem celyho toho kabelu?> >> >CL<> >> Napsano tam neni nic, ale odhaduji, ze je to pro ven.> >> Martin> >> > ______________________________________________________________> >> > Od: clock na twibright.com> >> > Komu: Twibright Ronja > >> > Datum: 30.08.2006 00:16> >> > P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> >> >> >> >On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 11:46:33PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote:> >> >> Ten venkovni UTP ma drat 0.62mm a dvojitou "buzirku" okolo "dratu". Taky> >> >> "buzirka" okolo dratu je silnejsi.> >> >> >> >A je na tom natisteno "outdoor" nebo to vyrobce v katalogu uvadi? Aby> >> >to nebyla nejaka ustni tradice - zatim se mi te legende o existenci> >> >venkovniho UTP/STP moc verit nechce.> >> >> >> >CL<> >> >> Taky to ma dvojitej plast obal.> >> >> Vim, ze existuje i STP verze.> >> >> Ja to mam od znameho....kde to sehnal..nevim.> >> >> Ale mam dojem, ze jsem to videl v katalogu Alfatroniku.> >> >> Martin> >> >> > > _____________________________ _________________________________> >> >> > Od: clock na twibright.com> >> >> > Komu: Twibright Ronja > >> >> > Datum: 28.08.2006 22:02> >> >> > P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> >> >> >> >> >> >On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 09:01:06PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote:> >> >> >> > Vse je v provedeni venkovnim.> >> >> >> Ano, existuje i UTP pro venkovni provedeni.> >> >> >> >> >> >Can you get STP for outdoor? If yes, where? Or at least where you can get> >> >> >the outdoor UTP?> >> >> >> >> >> >CL<> >> >> >> Filtr do 40MHz proti ruseni jsem samozrejme udelal.> >> >> >> I kdyz si myslim, ze za 78S15 nic "neleze" (meril jsem to) .> >> >> >> Martin> >> >> >> > ______________________________________________________________> >> >> >> > Od: clock na twibright.com> >> >> >> > Komu: Twibright Ronja > >> >> >> > Datum: 28.08.2006 17:16> >> >> >> > P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 03:49:20PM +0200, Cipis wrote:> >> >> >> >> Mno, ten chlap by pot?eboval do dr?ky, to je fakt reprezentace jak bl?zen.> >> >> >> >> S t?m datov?m kabelem to nen? a? tak hork? - na t? posledn? fotce hromosvod > jen k????, ostatn? jsem moc ne?tudoval.> >> >> >> >> Sp?? to vypad? d?sn? hnusn?, na providera, kter? to d?l? profesion?ln?. I j? > bych dal ten kousek do li?ty a od zdi k t?m cajk?m bu? krk nebo takov? ten > omot?vac? nesmysl.> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >For ordinary Ronja it would be just esthetical matter - if the coaxial cable is> >> >> >> >outdoor it doesn't matter if it's just thrown on the roof. ?Even if it's not> >> >> >> >outdoor it affects just lifetime, not performance. ?Anyway if you install a TV> >> >> >> >antenna you also throw the cable on a roof and don't use any plastic ducts.> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >RyS is using TP. TP can rot through on the weather and the signal inside UTP> >> >> >> >can be affected electromagnetically by pooling water even without insulation> >> >> >> >breach. ?That's why I didn't put TP cable into the guide. In case of a TP cable> >> >> >> >plastic ducts can have a technical benefit.> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >When we installed Ronja we used outdoor coaxials and left them just lying on> >> >> >> >the tin roof. Sometimes we used plastic ties to bundle cables together.> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >CL<> >> >> >> > > > >> _______________________________________________> >> >> >> Ronja mailing list> >> >> >> Ronja na lists.pointless.net> >> >> >> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >_______________________________________________> >> >> >Ronja mailing list> >> >> >Ronja na lists.pointless.net> >> >> >http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> >> >> > > > > >> _______________________________________________> >> >> Ronja mailing list> >> >> Ronja na lists.pointless.net> >> >> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> >> >> >> >> >> >_______________________________________________> >> >Ronja mailing list> >> >Ronja na lists.pointl ess.net> >> >http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> >> > > > > >> _______________________________________________> >> Ronja mailing list> >> Ronja na lists.pointless.net> >> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> >> >> >_______________________________________________> >Ronja mailing list> >Ronja na lists.pointless.net> >http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> > > > -------------- next part --------------> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...> URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20060830/14e45f9f/attachment.html > > ------------------------------> > _______________________________________________> Ronja mailing list> Ronja na lists.pointless.net> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> > > End of Ronja Digest, Vol 40, Issue 22> ************************************* >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Express yourself with gadgets on Windows Live Spaces >> http://discoverspaces.live.com?source=hmtag1&loc=us >> _______________________________________________ >> Ronja mailing list >> Ronja na lists.pointless.net >> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja na lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja -- Jakub S?kora email: kubajz na kbx.cz <') ICQ: 68976632 ( =- mobil: +420 777 594 201 '' ------------- dal?? ??st --------------- Netextov? p??loha byla odstran?na... Jm?no: kubajz.vcf Typ: text/x-vcard Velikost: 265 bytes Popis: [??dn? popis nen? k dispozici] Url : http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20060831/1dd3a884/attachment.vcf From kubajz at kbx.cz Thu Aug 31 12:39:31 2006 From: kubajz at kbx.cz (Jakub Sykora) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 13:39:31 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] ronja as backbone In-Reply-To: <20060831102515.GA856@kestrel.twibright.com> References: <20060831102515.GA856@kestrel.twibright.com> Message-ID: <44F6CA73.7070107@kbx.cz> Has anyone tried using of the BONDing device in Linux? AFAIK it should function a) as link aggregator b) high availability solution (if one of the slave links is down, you can be still use the rest slaves... K Karel Kulhavy napsal(a): > Yes you can aggregate the bandwidths together. But I think if it's not possible > that the network distributes the packets into the links. With OSPF or BGP > this is surely not possible as they choose always only one way for the data. > > You could maybe link aggregation over a virtual link created by tunnel > Linux could support this. Otherwise there may be some advanced, new or > experimental protocols I don't know about. > > If you have large or complicated enough network the traffic could balance > itself stochastically even with OSPF and BGP - data want to go the shortest way > and what is the shortest for one destination is not shortest for another. > > CL< > > On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 10:34:43PM -0400, kqj rocks wrote: >> I know the ronja can be used as an ethernet based internet backbone. If this is true will I be able to use them for an internet backhaul system to hop data from ronja to ronja and increase speed of internet data transfer to route internet data over a mesh network. since the ronja can be used as an internet backbone can it be used to act as a 10mbps backbone for an ultra-high speed network where the internet speed of the wireless network is 10mbps x number of ronjas plus the speed of the mesh network's internet connection 11mbps??? what is the total internet speed a cilent recieves when connecting to this wi-fi mesh network???> From: ronja-request na lists.pointless.net> Subject: Ronja Digest, Vol 40, Issue 22> To: ronja na lists.pointless.net> Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 18:13:52 +0100> > Send Ronja mailing list submissions to> ronja na lists.pointless.net> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> or, via email, se nd a message with subject or body 'help' to> ronja-request na lists.pointless.net> > You can reach the person managing the list at> ronja-owner na lists.pointless.net> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific> than "Re: Contents of Ronja digest..."> > > Today's Topics:> > 1. Re: Dalsi linka (Jakub Sykora)> 2. Re: Dalsi linka (Karel Kulhavy)> 3. Re: ronja (Karel Kulhavy)> 4. Re: [SPAM] Re: ronja (Karel Kulhavy)> 5. Re: Dalsi linka (-=RYS=-)> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------> > Message: 1> Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 13:33:21 +0200> From: Jakub Sykora > Subject: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> To: Twibright Ronja > Message-ID: <44F57781.1050800 na kbx.cz>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2"> > Ne to nedelaji. Stejne tak jsem nevidel kabel odolny proti blbcum :)> > K> > Karel Kulhavy napsal(a):> > On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 12:33:44AM +0200, Jakub Sykora wro te:> >> Mno kabely se takovy urcite delaji - staci se podivat treba do katalogu > >> Beldenu na kbaely DataTuff, ktere jsou pro prumyslove uziti a jejich > >> vrchni slupka se dela v provedenich: odolne proti UV, proti Mazivum, > >> proti Chemikaliim atp...> > > > Delaj taky odolnou proti Chuckovi Norrisovi a Jacku Bauerovi?> > > > CL<> >> Ale nechci ani vedet kolik toho stoji metr...> >>> >> K> >>> >> Karel Kulhavy napsal(a):> >>> On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 11:46:33PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote:> >>>> Ten venkovni UTP ma drat 0.62mm a dvojitou "buzirku" okolo "dratu". Taky> >>>> "buzirka" okolo dratu je silnejsi.> >>> A je na tom natisteno "outdoor" nebo to vyrobce v katalogu uvadi? Aby> >>> to nebyla nejaka ustni tradice - zatim se mi te legende o existenci> >>> venkovniho UTP/STP moc verit nechce.> >>>> >>> CL<> >>>> Taky to ma dvojitej plast obal.> >>>> Vim, ze existuje i STP verze.> >>>> Ja to mam od znameho....kde to sehnal..nevim.> >>>> Ale mam dojem, ze jsem to videl v katalog u Alfatroniku.> >>>> Martin> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> ______________________________________________________________> >>>>> Od: clock na twibright.com> >>>>> Komu: Twibright Ronja > >>>>> Datum: 28.08.2006 22:02> >>>>> P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> >>>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 09:01:06PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote:> >>>>>>> Vse je v provedeni venkovnim.> >>>>>> Ano, existuje i UTP pro venkovni provedeni.> >>>>> Can you get STP for outdoor? If yes, where? Or at least where you can get> >>>>> the outdoor UTP?> >>>>>> >>>>> CL<> >>>>>> Filtr do 40MHz proti ruseni jsem samozrejme udelal.> >>>>>> I kdyz si myslim, ze za 78S15 nic "neleze" (meril jsem to) .> >>>>>> Martin> >>>>>>> ______________________________________________________________> >>>>>>> Od: clock na twibright.com> >>>>>>> Komu: Twibright Ronja > >>>>>>> Datum: 28.08.2006 17:16> >>>>>>> P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 03:49:20PM + 0200, Cipis wrote:> >>>>>>>> Mno, ten chlap by pot?eboval do dr?ky, to je fakt reprezentace jak > >>>>>>>> bl?zen.> >>>>>>>> S t?m datov?m kabelem to nen? a? tak hork? - na t? posledn? fotce > >>>>>>>> hromosvod > jen k????, ostatn? jsem moc ne?tudoval.> >>>>>>>> Sp?? to vypad? d?sn? hnusn?, na providera, kter? to d?l? > >>>>>>>> profesion?ln?. I j? > bych dal ten kousek do li?ty a od zdi k t?m > >>>>>>>> cajk?m bu? krk nebo takov? ten > omot?vac? nesmysl.> >>>>>>> For ordinary Ronja it would be just esthetical matter - if the coaxial > >>>>>>> cable is> >>>>>>> outdoor it doesn't matter if it's just thrown on the roof. Even if > >>>>>>> it's not> >>>>>>> outdoor it affects just lifetime, not performance. Anyway if you > >>>>>>> install a TV> >>>>>>> antenna you also throw the cable on a roof and don't use any plastic > >>>>>>> ducts.> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> RyS is using TP. TP can rot through on the weather and the signal > >>>>>>> inside UTP> >>>>>>> can be affected electromagn etically by pooling water even without > >>>>>>> insulation> >>>>>>> breach. That's why I didn't put TP cable into the guide. In case of a > >>>>>>> TP cable> >>>>>>> plastic ducts can have a technical benefit.> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> When we installed Ronja we used outdoor coaxials and left them just > >>>>>>> lying on> >>>>>>> the tin roof. Sometimes we used plastic ties to bundle cables together.> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> CL<> >>>>>> _______________________________________________> >>>>>> Ronja mailing list> >>>>>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net> >>>>>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> >>>>> _______________________________________________> >>>>> Ronja mailing list> >>>>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net> >>>>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> >>>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________> >>>> Ronja mailing list> >>>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net> >>>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________> >>> Ronja mailing list> >>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net> >>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> >> -- > >> Jakub S?kora> >> email: kubajz na kbx.cz <')> >> ICQ: 68976632 ( =-> >> mobil: +420 777 594 201 ''> > > >> begin:vcard> >> fn;quoted-printable:Jakub S=C3=BDkora> >> n;quoted-printable:S=C3=BDkora;Jakub> >> adr;quoted-printable:;;=C3=9Adoln=C3=AD 1273;Praha 4;;14200;Czech Republic> >> email;internet:kubajz na kbx.cz> >> tel;cell:+420 777 594 201> >> url:http://kubajz.kbx.cz> >> version:2.1> >> end:vcard> >>> > > >> _______________________________________________> >> Ronja mailing list> >> Ronja na lists.pointless.net> >> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> > > > > > _______________________________________________> > Ronja mailing list> > Ronja na lists.pointless.net> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> > -- > Jakub S?kora> email: kubajz na kbx.cz <')> ICQ: 68976632 ( =-> mobil: +420 777 594 201 ''> -------------- next part --------------> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...> Name: kubajz.vcf> Type: text/x-vcard> Size: 265 bytes> Desc: not available> Url : http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20060830/5847c7ac/attachment-0001.vcf > > ------------------------------> > Message: 2> Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 14:29:53 +0200> From: Karel Kulhavy > Subject: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> To: Twibright Ronja > Message-ID: <20060830122953.GA19221 na kestrel.twibright.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1> > On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 12:34:24PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote:> > Je to podobne jako venkovnimu koaxu, 2x "buzirka" okolo.> > Ta dvojita buzirka je kolem kazdyho dratku a nebo kolem celyho toho kabelu?> > CL<> > Napsano tam neni nic, ale odhaduji, ze je to pro ven.> > Martin> > > > ______________________________________________________________> > > Od: clock na twibright.com> > > Komu: Twibright Ronja > > > Datum: 30 .08.2006 00:16> > > P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> > >> > >On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 11:46:33PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote:> > >> Ten venkovni UTP ma drat 0.62mm a dvojitou "buzirku" okolo "dratu". Taky> > >> "buzirka" okolo dratu je silnejsi.> > >> > >A je na tom natisteno "outdoor" nebo to vyrobce v katalogu uvadi? Aby> > >to nebyla nejaka ustni tradice - zatim se mi te legende o existenci> > >venkovniho UTP/STP moc verit nechce.> > >> > >CL<> > >> Taky to ma dvojitej plast obal.> > >> Vim, ze existuje i STP verze.> > >> Ja to mam od znameho....kde to sehnal..nevim.> > >> Ale mam dojem, ze jsem to videl v katalogu Alfatroniku.> > >> Martin> > >> > > ______________________________________________________________> > >> > Od: clock na twibright.com> > >> > Komu: Twibright Ronja > > >> > Datum: 28.08.2006 22:02> > >> > P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> > >> >> > >> >On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 09:01:06PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote:> > >> >> > Vse je v provedeni venkovn im.> > >> >> Ano, existuje i UTP pro venkovni provedeni.> > >> >> > >> >Can you get STP for outdoor? If yes, where? Or at least where you can get> > >> >the outdoor UTP?> > >> >> > >> >CL<> > >> >> Filtr do 40MHz proti ruseni jsem samozrejme udelal.> > >> >> I kdyz si myslim, ze za 78S15 nic "neleze" (meril jsem to) .> > >> >> Martin> > >> >> > ______________________________________________________________> > >> >> > Od: clock na twibright.com> > >> >> > Komu: Twibright Ronja > > >> >> > Datum: 28.08.2006 17:16> > >> >> > P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> > >> >> >> > >> >> >On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 03:49:20PM +0200, Cipis wrote:> > >> >> >> Mno, ten chlap by pot?eboval do dr?ky, to je fakt reprezentace jak bl?zen.> > >> >> >> S t?m datov?m kabelem to nen? a? tak hork? - na t? posledn? fotce hromosvod > jen k????, ostatn? jsem moc ne?tudoval.> > >> >> >> Sp?? to vypad? d?sn? hnusn?, na providera, kter? to d?l? profesion?ln?. I j? > bych dal ten kousek d o li?ty a od zdi k t?m cajk?m bu? krk nebo takov? ten > omot?vac? nesmysl.> > >> >> >> > >> >> >For ordinary Ronja it would be just esthetical matter - if the coaxial cable is> > >> >> >outdoor it doesn't matter if it's just thrown on the roof. ?Even if it's not> > >> >> >outdoor it affects just lifetime, not performance. ?Anyway if you install a TV> > >> >> >antenna you also throw the cable on a roof and don't use any plastic ducts.> > >> >> >> > >> >> >RyS is using TP. TP can rot through on the weather and the signal inside UTP> > >> >> >can be affected electromagnetically by pooling water even without insulation> > >> >> >breach. ?That's why I didn't put TP cable into the guide. In case of a TP cable> > >> >> >plastic ducts can have a technical benefit.> > >> >> >> > >> >> >When we installed Ronja we used outdoor coaxials and left them just lying on> > >> >> >the tin roof. Sometimes we used plastic ties to bundle cables together.> > >> >> >> > >> >> >CL<> > >> >> > > > >> _______________________________________________> > >> >> Ronja mailing list> > >> >> Ronja na lists.pointless.net> > >> >> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >_______________________________________________> > >> >Ronja mailing list> > >> >Ronja na lists.pointless.net> > >> >http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> > >> > > > > > >> _______________________________________________> > >> Ronja mailing list> > >> Ronja na lists.pointless.net> > >> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> > >> > >> > >_______________________________________________> > >Ronja mailing list> > >Ronja na lists.pointless.net> > >http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________> > Ronja mailing list> > Ronja na lists.pointless.net> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> > > > > ------------------------------> > Message: 3> Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 15:31:37 +0200> From: Karel Kulhavy > Subjec t: Re: [Ronja] ronja> To: Mark Oldham > Cc: Twibright Ronja > Message-ID: <20060830133137.GA20676 na kestrel.twibright.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii> > On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 12:27:28PM +0100, Mark Oldham wrote:> > hello karel> > > > i came accross this http://ronja.twibright.com/models.php> > > > im very interested in prices> > I am just developing and publishing, not manufacturing and selling. But someone> on mailing list said he wants to sell a used device.> > > > > if i understand correct you can transmit ethernet data transparently with> > this method> > yes.> > CL<> > > > best regards> > > > mark> > > > ------------------------------> > Message: 4> Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 18:25:58 +0200> From: Karel Kulhavy > Subject: Re: [Ronja] [SPAM] Re: ronja> To: marko > Cc: Twibright Ronja > Message-ID: <20060830162558.GB1857 na kestrel.twibrigh t.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii> > On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 03:55:46PM +0100, marko wrote:> > I am just developing and publishing, not manufacturing and selling. But > > someone> > >on mailing list said he wants to sell a used device.> > > > do you have this persons contact details> > I don't remember. But I sent the reply there so if he's interested I guess> he'll write you. He's from Czech Republic. Maybe there were even two persons> like this, I am not sure.> > CL<> > > > thanks> > mark> > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Karel Kulhavy" > > To: "Mark Oldham" > > Cc: "Twibright Ronja" > > Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 2:31 PM> > Subject: [SPAM] Re: ronja> > > > > > >On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 12:27:28PM +0100, Mark Oldham wrote:> > >>hello karel> > >>> > >>i came accross this http://ronja.twibright.com/models.php> > >>> > >>im very interested in prices> > >> > >I am just d eveloping and publishing, not manufacturing and selling. But > > >someone> > >on mailing list said he wants to sell a used device.> > >> > >>> > >>if i understand correct you can transmit ethernet data transparently with> > >>this method> > >> > >yes.> > >> > >CL<> > >>> > >>best regards> > >>> > >>mark > > > > ------------------------------> > Message: 5> Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 19:13:14 +0200> From: "-=RYS=-" > Subject: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> To: > Message-ID: <200608301913.1144 na centrum.cz>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250"> > Kolem celeho kabelu.> > ______________________________________________________________> > Od: clock na twibright.com> > Komu: Twibright Ronja > > Datum: 30.08.2006 14:30> > P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> >> >On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 12:34:24PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote:> >> Je to podobne jako venkovnimu koaxu, 2x "buzirka" okolo.> >> >Ta dvojita buzirka je kolem kazdyho dratku a nebo kolem celyho toho kabelu?> >> >CL<> >> Napsano tam neni nic, ale odhaduji, ze je to pro ven.> >> Martin> >> > ______________________________________________________________> >> > Od: clock na twibright.com> >> > Komu: Twibright Ronja > >> > Datum: 30.08.2006 00:16> >> > P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> >> >> >> >On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 11:46:33PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote:> >> >> Ten venkovni UTP ma drat 0.62mm a dvojitou "buzirku" okolo "dratu". Taky> >> >> "buzirka" okolo dratu je silnejsi.> >> >> >> >A je na tom natisteno "outdoor" nebo to vyrobce v katalogu uvadi? Aby> >> >to nebyla nejaka ustni tradice - zatim se mi te legende o existenci> >> >venkovniho UTP/STP moc verit nechce.> >> >> >> >CL<> >> >> Taky to ma dvojitej plast obal.> >> >> Vim, ze existuje i STP verze.> >> >> Ja to mam od znameho....kde to sehnal..nevim.> >> >> Ale mam dojem, ze jsem to videl v katalogu Alfatroniku.> >> >> Martin> >> >> > > _____________________________ _________________________________> >> >> > Od: clock na twibright.com> >> >> > Komu: Twibright Ronja > >> >> > Datum: 28.08.2006 22:02> >> >> > P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> >> >> >> >> >> >On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 09:01:06PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote:> >> >> >> > Vse je v provedeni venkovnim.> >> >> >> Ano, existuje i UTP pro venkovni provedeni.> >> >> >> >> >> >Can you get STP for outdoor? If yes, where? Or at least where you can get> >> >> >the outdoor UTP?> >> >> >> >> >> >CL<> >> >> >> Filtr do 40MHz proti ruseni jsem samozrejme udelal.> >> >> >> I kdyz si myslim, ze za 78S15 nic "neleze" (meril jsem to) .> >> >> >> Martin> >> >> >> > ______________________________________________________________> >> >> >> > Od: clock na twibright.com> >> >> >> > Komu: Twibright Ronja > >> >> >> > Datum: 28.08.2006 17:16> >> >> >> > P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 03:49:20PM +0200, Cipis wrote:> >> >> >> >> Mno, ten chlap by pot?eboval do dr?ky, to je fakt reprezentace jak bl?zen.> >> >> >> >> S t?m datov?m kabelem to nen? a? tak hork? - na t? posledn? fotce hromosvod > jen k????, ostatn? jsem moc ne?tudoval.> >> >> >> >> Sp?? to vypad? d?sn? hnusn?, na providera, kter? to d?l? profesion?ln?. I j? > bych dal ten kousek do li?ty a od zdi k t?m cajk?m bu? krk nebo takov? ten > omot?vac? nesmysl.> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >For ordinary Ronja it would be just esthetical matter - if the coaxial cable is> >> >> >> >outdoor it doesn't matter if it's just thrown on the roof. ?Even if it's not> >> >> >> >outdoor it affects just lifetime, not performance. ?Anyway if you install a TV> >> >> >> >antenna you also throw the cable on a roof and don't use any plastic ducts.> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >RyS is using TP. TP can rot through on the weather and the signal inside UTP> >> >> >> >can be affected electromagnetically by pooling water even without insulation> >> >> >> >breach. ?That's why I didn't put TP cable into the guide. In case of a TP cable> >> >> >> >plastic ducts can have a technical benefit.> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >When we installed Ronja we used outdoor coaxials and left them just lying on> >> >> >> >the tin roof. Sometimes we used plastic ties to bundle cables together.> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >CL<> >> >> >> > > > >> _______________________________________________> >> >> >> Ronja mailing list> >> >> >> Ronja na lists.pointless.net> >> >> >> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >_______________________________________________> >> >> >Ronja mailing list> >> >> >Ronja na lists.pointless.net> >> >> >http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> >> >> > > > > >> _______________________________________________> >> >> Ronja mailing list> >> >> Ronja na lists.pointless.net> >> >> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> >> >> >> >> >> >_______________________________________________> >> >Ronja mailing list> >> >Ronja na lists.pointl ess.net> >> >http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> >> > > > > >> _______________________________________________> >> Ronja mailing list> >> Ronja na lists.pointless.net> >> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> >> >> >_______________________________________________> >Ronja mailing list> >Ronja na lists.pointless.net> >http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> > > > -------------- next part --------------> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...> URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20060830/14e45f9f/attachment.html > > ------------------------------> > _______________________________________________> Ronja mailing list> Ronja na lists.pointless.net> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> > > End of Ronja Digest, Vol 40, Issue 22> ************************************* >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Express yourself with gadgets on Windows Live Spaces >> http://discoverspaces.live.com?source=hmtag1&loc=us >> _______________________________________________ >> Ronja mailing list >> Ronja na lists.pointless.net >> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja na lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja -- Jakub S?kora email: kubajz na kbx.cz <') ICQ: 68976632 ( =- mobil: +420 777 594 201 '' ------------- dal?? ??st --------------- Netextov? p??loha byla odstran?na... Jm?no: kubajz.vcf Typ: text/x-vcard Velikost: 265 bytes Popis: [??dn? popis nen? k dispozici] Url : http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20060831/e9243eed/attachment-0001.vcf From srnkap at extranetplus.cz Thu Aug 31 12:54:32 2006 From: srnkap at extranetplus.cz (Pavel Srnka) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 13:54:32 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] ronja as backbone References: <20060831102515.GA856@kestrel.twibright.com> <44F6CA73.7070107@kbx.cz> Message-ID: <001201c6ccf4$392d6280$f2464d3e@homec911b8ae22> Nevite prosim nekdo jak zalohovat ronji spoje wifinou bez pouziti linux routru ? tzn necim na urovni switchu ? Stacila by treba podpora spaning tree protokolu ? dekuju za radu... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jakub Sykora" To: "Twibright Ronja" Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 1:39 PM Subject: Re: [Ronja] ronja as backbone Has anyone tried using of the BONDing device in Linux? AFAIK it should function a) as link aggregator b) high availability solution (if one of the slave links is down, you can be still use the rest slaves... K Karel Kulhavy napsal(a): > Yes you can aggregate the bandwidths together. But I think if it's not > possible > that the network distributes the packets into the links. With OSPF or BGP > this is surely not possible as they choose always only one way for the > data. > > You could maybe link aggregation over a virtual link created by tunnel > Linux could support this. Otherwise there may be some advanced, new or > experimental protocols I don't know about. > > If you have large or complicated enough network the traffic could balance > itself stochastically even with OSPF and BGP - data want to go the > shortest way > and what is the shortest for one destination is not shortest for another. > > CL< > > On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 10:34:43PM -0400, kqj rocks wrote: >> I know the ronja can be used as an ethernet based internet backbone. If >> this is true will I be able to use them for an internet backhaul system >> to hop data from ronja to ronja and increase speed of internet data >> transfer to route internet data over a mesh network. since the ronja can >> be used as an internet backbone can it be used to act as a 10mbps >> backbone for an ultra-high speed network where the internet speed of the >> wireless network is 10mbps x number of ronjas plus the speed of the mesh >> network's internet connection 11mbps??? what is the total internet >> speed a cilent recieves when connecting to this wi-fi mesh network???> >> From: ronja-request na lists.pointless.net> Subject: Ronja Digest, Vol 40, >> Issue 22> To: ronja na lists.pointless.net> Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 18:13:52 >> +0100> > Send Ronja mailing list submissions to> >> ronja na lists.pointless.net> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World >> Wide Web, visit> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> or, via >> email, se nd a message with subject or body 'help' to> ronja-request na lists.pointless.net> > You can reach the person managing the list at> ronja-owner na lists.pointless.net> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific> than "Re: Contents of Ronja digest..."> > > Today's Topics:> > 1. Re: Dalsi linka (Jakub Sykora)> 2. Re: Dalsi linka (Karel Kulhavy)> 3. Re: ronja (Karel Kulhavy)> 4. Re: [SPAM] Re: ronja (Karel Kulhavy)> 5. Re: Dalsi linka (-=RYS=-)> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------> > Message: 1> Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 13:33:21 +0200> From: Jakub Sykora > Subject: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> To: Twibright Ronja > Message-ID: <44F57781.1050800 na kbx.cz>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2"> > Ne to nedelaji. Stejne tak jsem nevidel kabel odolny proti blbcum :)> > K> > Karel Kulhavy napsal(a):> > On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 12:33:44AM +0200, Jakub Sykora wro te:> >> Mno kabely se takovy urcite delaji - staci se podivat treba do katalogu > >> Beldenu na kbaely DataTuff, ktere jsou pro prumyslove uziti a jejich > >> vrchni slupka se dela v provedenich: odolne proti UV, proti Mazivum, > >> proti Chemikaliim atp...> > > > Delaj taky odolnou proti Chuckovi Norrisovi a Jacku Bauerovi?> > > > CL<> >> Ale nechci ani vedet kolik toho stoji metr...> >>> >> K> >>> >> Karel Kulhavy napsal(a):> >>> On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 11:46:33PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote:> >>>> Ten venkovni UTP ma drat 0.62mm a dvojitou "buzirku" okolo "dratu". Taky> >>>> "buzirka" okolo dratu je silnejsi.> >>> A je na tom natisteno "outdoor" nebo to vyrobce v katalogu uvadi? Aby> >>> to nebyla nejaka ustni tradice - zatim se mi te legende o existenci> >>> venkovniho UTP/STP moc verit nechce.> >>>> >>> CL<> >>>> Taky to ma dvojitej plast obal.> >>>> Vim, ze existuje i STP verze.> >>>> Ja to mam od znameho....kde to sehnal..nevim.> >>>> Ale mam dojem, ze jsem to videl v katalog u Alfatroniku.> >>>> Martin> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> ______________________________________________________________> >>>>> Od: clock na twibright.com> >>>>> Komu: Twibright Ronja > >>>>> Datum: 28.08.2006 22:02> >>>>> P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> >>>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 09:01:06PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote:> >>>>>>> Vse je v provedeni venkovnim.> >>>>>> Ano, existuje i UTP pro venkovni provedeni.> >>>>> Can you get STP for outdoor? If yes, where? Or at least where you can get> >>>>> the outdoor UTP?> >>>>>> >>>>> CL<> >>>>>> Filtr do 40MHz proti ruseni jsem samozrejme udelal.> >>>>>> I kdyz si myslim, ze za 78S15 nic "neleze" (meril jsem to) .> >>>>>> Martin> >>>>>>> ______________________________________________________________> >>>>>>> Od: clock na twibright.com> >>>>>>> Komu: Twibright Ronja > >>>>>>> Datum: 28.08.2006 17:16> >>>>>>> P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 03:49:20PM + 0200, Cipis wrote:> >>>>>>>> Mno, ten chlap by pot?eboval do dr?ky, to je fakt reprezentace jak > >>>>>>>> bl?zen.> >>>>>>>> S t?m datov?m kabelem to nen? a? tak hork? - na t? posledn? fotce > >>>>>>>> hromosvod > jen k????, ostatn? jsem moc ne?tudoval.> >>>>>>>> Sp?? to vypad? d?sn? hnusn?, na providera, kter? to d?l? > >>>>>>>> profesion?ln?. I j? > bych dal ten kousek do li?ty a od zdi k t?m > >>>>>>>> cajk?m bu? krk nebo takov? ten > omot?vac? nesmysl.> >>>>>>> For ordinary Ronja it would be just esthetical matter - if the coaxial > >>>>>>> cable is> >>>>>>> outdoor it doesn't matter if it's just thrown on the roof. Even if > >>>>>>> it's not> >>>>>>> outdoor it affects just lifetime, not performance. Anyway if you > >>>>>>> install a TV> >>>>>>> antenna you also throw the cable on a roof and don't use any plastic > >>>>>>> ducts.> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> RyS is using TP. TP can rot through on the weather and the signal > >>>>>>> inside UTP> >>>>>>> can be affected electromagn etically by pooling water even without > >>>>>>> insulation> >>>>>>> breach. That's why I didn't put TP cable into the guide. In case of a > >>>>>>> TP cable> >>>>>>> plastic ducts can have a technical benefit.> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> When we installed Ronja we used outdoor coaxials and left them just > >>>>>>> lying on> >>>>>>> the tin roof. Sometimes we used plastic ties to bundle cables together.> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> CL<> >>>>>> _______________________________________________> >>>>>> Ronja mailing list> >>>>>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net> >>>>>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> >>>>> _______________________________________________> >>>>> Ronja mailing list> >>>>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net> >>>>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> >>>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________> >>>> Ronja mailing list> >>>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net> >>>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________> >>> Ronja mailing list> >>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net> >>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> >> -- > >> Jakub S?kora> >> email: kubajz na kbx.cz <')> >> ICQ: 68976632 ( =-> >> mobil: +420 777 594 201 ''> > > >> begin:vcard> >> fn;quoted-printable:Jakub S=C3=BDkora> >> n;quoted-printable:S=C3=BDkora;Jakub> >> adr;quoted-printable:;;=C3=9Adoln=C3=AD 1273;Praha 4;;14200;Czech Republic> >> email;internet:kubajz na kbx.cz> >> tel;cell:+420 777 594 201> >> url:http://kubajz.kbx.cz> >> version:2.1> >> end:vcard> >>> > > >> _______________________________________________> >> Ronja mailing list> >> Ronja na lists.pointless.net> >> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> > > > > > _______________________________________________> > Ronja mailing list> > Ronja na lists.pointless.net> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> > -- > Jakub S?kora> email: kubajz na kbx.cz <')> ICQ: 68976632 ( =-> mobil: +420 777 594 201 ''> -------------- next part --------------> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...> Name: kubajz.vcf> Type: text/x-vcard> Size: 265 bytes> Desc: not available> Url : http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20060830/5847c7ac/attachment-0001.vcf > > ------------------------------> > Message: 2> Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 14:29:53 +0200> From: Karel Kulhavy > Subject: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> To: Twibright Ronja > Message-ID: <20060830122953.GA19221 na kestrel.twibright.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1> > On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 12:34:24PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote:> > Je to podobne jako venkovnimu koaxu, 2x "buzirka" okolo.> > Ta dvojita buzirka je kolem kazdyho dratku a nebo kolem celyho toho kabelu?> > CL<> > Napsano tam neni nic, ale odhaduji, ze je to pro ven.> > Martin> > > > ______________________________________________________________> > > Od: clock na twibright.com> > > Komu: Twibright Ronja > > > Datum: 30 .08.2006 00:16> > > P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> > >> > >On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 11:46:33PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote:> > >> Ten venkovni UTP ma drat 0.62mm a dvojitou "buzirku" okolo "dratu". Taky> > >> "buzirka" okolo dratu je silnejsi.> > >> > >A je na tom natisteno "outdoor" nebo to vyrobce v katalogu uvadi? Aby> > >to nebyla nejaka ustni tradice - zatim se mi te legende o existenci> > >venkovniho UTP/STP moc verit nechce.> > >> > >CL<> > >> Taky to ma dvojitej plast obal.> > >> Vim, ze existuje i STP verze.> > >> Ja to mam od znameho....kde to sehnal..nevim.> > >> Ale mam dojem, ze jsem to videl v katalogu Alfatroniku.> > >> Martin> > >> > > ______________________________________________________________> > >> > Od: clock na twibright.com> > >> > Komu: Twibright Ronja > > >> > Datum: 28.08.2006 22:02> > >> > P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> > >> >> > >> >On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 09:01:06PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote:> > >> >> > Vse je v provedeni venkovn im.> > >> >> Ano, existuje i UTP pro venkovni provedeni.> > >> >> > >> >Can you get STP for outdoor? If yes, where? Or at least where you can get> > >> >the outdoor UTP?> > >> >> > >> >CL<> > >> >> Filtr do 40MHz proti ruseni jsem samozrejme udelal.> > >> >> I kdyz si myslim, ze za 78S15 nic "neleze" (meril jsem to) .> > >> >> Martin> > >> >> > ______________________________________________________________> > >> >> > Od: clock na twibright.com> > >> >> > Komu: Twibright Ronja > > >> >> > Datum: 28.08.2006 17:16> > >> >> > P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> > >> >> >> > >> >> >On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 03:49:20PM +0200, Cipis wrote:> > >> >> >> Mno, ten chlap by pot?eboval do dr?ky, to je fakt reprezentace jak bl?zen.> > >> >> >> S t?m datov?m kabelem to nen? a? tak hork? - na t? posledn? fotce hromosvod > jen k????, ostatn? jsem moc ne?tudoval.> > >> >> >> Sp?? to vypad? d?sn? hnusn?, na providera, kter? to d?l? profesion?ln?. I j? > bych dal ten kousek d o li?ty a od zdi k t?m cajk?m bu? krk nebo takov? ten > omot?vac? nesmysl.> > >> >> >> > >> >> >For ordinary Ronja it would be just esthetical matter - if the coaxial cable is> > >> >> >outdoor it doesn't matter if it's just thrown on the roof. ?Even if it's not> > >> >> >outdoor it affects just lifetime, not performance. ?Anyway if you install a TV> > >> >> >antenna you also throw the cable on a roof and don't use any plastic ducts.> > >> >> >> > >> >> >RyS is using TP. TP can rot through on the weather and the signal inside UTP> > >> >> >can be affected electromagnetically by pooling water even without insulation> > >> >> >breach. ?That's why I didn't put TP cable into the guide. In case of a TP cable> > >> >> >plastic ducts can have a technical benefit.> > >> >> >> > >> >> >When we installed Ronja we used outdoor coaxials and left them just lying on> > >> >> >the tin roof. Sometimes we used plastic ties to bundle cables together.> > >> >> >> > >> >> >CL<> > >> >> > > > >> _______________________________________________> > >> >> Ronja mailing list> > >> >> Ronja na lists.pointless.net> > >> >> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >_______________________________________________> > >> >Ronja mailing list> > >> >Ronja na lists.pointless.net> > >> >http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> > >> > > > > > >> _______________________________________________> > >> Ronja mailing list> > >> Ronja na lists.pointless.net> > >> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> > >> > >> > >_______________________________________________> > >Ronja mailing list> > >Ronja na lists.pointless.net> > >http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________> > Ronja mailing list> > Ronja na lists.pointless.net> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> > > > > ------------------------------> > Message: 3> Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 15:31:37 +0200> From: Karel Kulhavy > Subjec t: Re: [Ronja] ronja> To: Mark Oldham > Cc: Twibright Ronja > Message-ID: <20060830133137.GA20676 na kestrel.twibright.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii> > On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 12:27:28PM +0100, Mark Oldham wrote:> > hello karel> > > > i came accross this http://ronja.twibright.com/models.php> > > > im very interested in prices> > I am just developing and publishing, not manufacturing and selling. But someone> on mailing list said he wants to sell a used device.> > > > > if i understand correct you can transmit ethernet data transparently with> > this method> > yes.> > CL<> > > > best regards> > > > mark> > > > ------------------------------> > Message: 4> Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 18:25:58 +0200> From: Karel Kulhavy > Subject: Re: [Ronja] [SPAM] Re: ronja> To: marko > Cc: Twibright Ronja > Message-ID: <20060830162558.GB1857 na kestrel.twibrigh t.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii> > On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 03:55:46PM +0100, marko wrote:> > I am just developing and publishing, not manufacturing and selling. But > > someone> > >on mailing list said he wants to sell a used device.> > > > do you have this persons contact details> > I don't remember. But I sent the reply there so if he's interested I guess> he'll write you. He's from Czech Republic. Maybe there were even two persons> like this, I am not sure.> > CL<> > > > thanks> > mark> > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Karel Kulhavy" > > To: "Mark Oldham" > > Cc: "Twibright Ronja" > > Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 2:31 PM> > Subject: [SPAM] Re: ronja> > > > > > >On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 12:27:28PM +0100, Mark Oldham wrote:> > >>hello karel> > >>> > >>i came accross this http://ronja.twibright.com/models.php> > >>> > >>im very interested in prices> > >> > >I am just d eveloping and publishing, not manufacturing and selling. But > > >someone> > >on mailing list said he wants to sell a used device.> > >> > >>> > >>if i understand correct you can transmit ethernet data transparently with> > >>this method> > >> > >yes.> > >> > >CL<> > >>> > >>best regards> > >>> > >>mark > > > > ------------------------------> > Message: 5> Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 19:13:14 +0200> From: "-=RYS=-" > Subject: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> To: > Message-ID: <200608301913.1144 na centrum.cz>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250"> > Kolem celeho kabelu.> > ______________________________________________________________> > Od: clock na twibright.com> > Komu: Twibright Ronja > > Datum: 30.08.2006 14:30> > P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> >> >On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 12:34:24PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote:> >> Je to podobne jako venkovnimu koaxu, 2x "buzirka" okolo.> >> >Ta dvojita buzirka je kolem kazdyho dratku a nebo kolem celyho toho kabelu?> >> >CL<> >> Napsano tam neni nic, ale odhaduji, ze je to pro ven.> >> Martin> >> > ______________________________________________________________> >> > Od: clock na twibright.com> >> > Komu: Twibright Ronja > >> > Datum: 30.08.2006 00:16> >> > P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> >> >> >> >On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 11:46:33PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote:> >> >> Ten venkovni UTP ma drat 0.62mm a dvojitou "buzirku" okolo "dratu". Taky> >> >> "buzirka" okolo dratu je silnejsi.> >> >> >> >A je na tom natisteno "outdoor" nebo to vyrobce v katalogu uvadi? Aby> >> >to nebyla nejaka ustni tradice - zatim se mi te legende o existenci> >> >venkovniho UTP/STP moc verit nechce.> >> >> >> >CL<> >> >> Taky to ma dvojitej plast obal.> >> >> Vim, ze existuje i STP verze.> >> >> Ja to mam od znameho....kde to sehnal..nevim.> >> >> Ale mam dojem, ze jsem to videl v katalogu Alfatroniku.> >> >> Martin> >> >> > > _____________________________ _________________________________> >> >> > Od: clock na twibright.com> >> >> > Komu: Twibright Ronja > >> >> > Datum: 28.08.2006 22:02> >> >> > P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> >> >> >> >> >> >On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 09:01:06PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote:> >> >> >> > Vse je v provedeni venkovnim.> >> >> >> Ano, existuje i UTP pro venkovni provedeni.> >> >> >> >> >> >Can you get STP for outdoor? If yes, where? Or at least where you can get> >> >> >the outdoor UTP?> >> >> >> >> >> >CL<> >> >> >> Filtr do 40MHz proti ruseni jsem samozrejme udelal.> >> >> >> I kdyz si myslim, ze za 78S15 nic "neleze" (meril jsem to) .> >> >> >> Martin> >> >> >> > ______________________________________________________________> >> >> >> > Od: clock na twibright.com> >> >> >> > Komu: Twibright Ronja > >> >> >> > Datum: 28.08.2006 17:16> >> >> >> > P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Dalsi linka> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 03:49:20PM +0200, Cipis wrote:> >> >> >> >> Mno, ten chlap by pot?eboval do dr?ky, to je fakt reprezentace jak bl?zen.> >> >> >> >> S t?m datov?m kabelem to nen? a? tak hork? - na t? posledn? fotce hromosvod > jen k????, ostatn? jsem moc ne?tudoval.> >> >> >> >> Sp?? to vypad? d?sn? hnusn?, na providera, kter? to d?l? profesion?ln?. I j? > bych dal ten kousek do li?ty a od zdi k t?m cajk?m bu? krk nebo takov? ten > omot?vac? nesmysl.> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >For ordinary Ronja it would be just esthetical matter - if the coaxial cable is> >> >> >> >outdoor it doesn't matter if it's just thrown on the roof. ?Even if it's not> >> >> >> >outdoor it affects just lifetime, not performance. ?Anyway if you install a TV> >> >> >> >antenna you also throw the cable on a roof and don't use any plastic ducts.> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >RyS is using TP. TP can rot through on the weather and the signal inside UTP> >> >> >> >can be affected electromagnetically by pooling water even without insulation> >> >> >> >breach. ?That's why I didn't put TP cable into the guide. In case of a TP cable> >> >> >> >plastic ducts can have a technical benefit.> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >When we installed Ronja we used outdoor coaxials and left them just lying on> >> >> >> >the tin roof. Sometimes we used plastic ties to bundle cables together.> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >CL<> >> >> >> > > > >> _______________________________________________> >> >> >> Ronja mailing list> >> >> >> Ronja na lists.pointless.net> >> >> >> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >_______________________________________________> >> >> >Ronja mailing list> >> >> >Ronja na lists.pointless.net> >> >> >http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> >> >> > > > > >> _______________________________________________> >> >> Ronja mailing list> >> >> Ronja na lists.pointless.net> >> >> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> >> >> >> >> >> >_______________________________________________> >> >Ronja mailing list> >> >Ronja na lists.pointl ess.net> >> >http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> >> > > > > >> _______________________________________________> >> Ronja mailing list> >> Ronja na lists.pointless.net> >> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> >> >> >_______________________________________________> >Ronja mailing list> >Ronja na lists.pointless.net> >http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> > > > -------------- next part --------------> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...> URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20060830/14e45f9f/attachment.html > > ------------------------------> > _______________________________________________> Ronja mailing list> Ronja na lists.pointless.net> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja> > > End of Ronja Digest, Vol 40, Issue 22> ************************************* >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Express yourself with gadgets on Windows Live Spaces >> http://discoverspaces.live.com?source=hmtag1&loc=us >> _______________________________________________ >> Ronja mailing list >> Ronja na lists.pointless.net >> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja na lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja -- Jakub S?kora email: kubajz na kbx.cz <') ICQ: 68976632 ( =- mobil: +420 777 594 201 '' -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja na lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > From seligr at sh.cvut.cz Thu Aug 31 20:11:57 2006 From: seligr at sh.cvut.cz (Petr Seliger) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 21:11:57 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] ronja as backbone In-Reply-To: <44F6C335.2010404@kbx.cz> References: <20060831102515.GA856@kestrel.twibright.com> <44F6C335.2010404@kbx.cz> Message-ID: <1157051517.44f7347dba71b@desitka.sh.cvut.cz> Cituji z emailu od Jakub Sykora : > Some advanced switches support multiple ports to be aggregated. I did > not try it although we have some in our network... Podporujou ale jen jako 2* nebo 4* 100Mbps fullduplex. Co by chodilo s ronjou na 10 jsem jeste nevidel. > > K > > Karel Kulhavy napsal(a): > > Yes you can aggregate the bandwidths together. But I think if it's not > possible > > that the network distributes the packets into the links. With OSPF or BGP > > this is surely not possible as they choose always only one way for the > data. > > > > You could maybe link aggregation over a virtual link created by tunnel > > Linux could support this. Otherwise there may be some advanced, new or > > experimental protocols I don't know about. > > > > If you have large or complicated enough network the traffic could balance > > itself stochastically even with OSPF and BGP - data want to go the shortest > way > > and what is the shortest for one destination is not shortest for another. > > > > CL< > > > > On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 10:34:43PM -0400, kqj rocks wrote: > >> I know the ronja can be used as an ethernet based internet backbone. If > this is true will I be able to use them for an internet backhaul system to > hop data from ronja to ronja and increase speed of internet data transfer to > route internet data over a mesh network. since the ronja can be used as an > internet backbone can it be used to act as a 10mbps backbone for an > ultra-high speed network where the internet speed of the wireless network is > 10mbps x number of ronjas plus the speed of the mesh network's internet From kubajz at kbx.cz Thu Aug 31 20:28:07 2006 From: kubajz at kbx.cz (Jakub Sykora) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 21:28:07 +0200 Subject: [Ronja] ronja as backbone In-Reply-To: <1157051517.44f7347dba71b@desitka.sh.cvut.cz> References: <20060831102515.GA856@kestrel.twibright.com> <44F6C335.2010404@kbx.cz> <1157051517.44f7347dba71b@desitka.sh.cvut.cz> Message-ID: <44F73847.4050402@kbx.cz> Aha - to me ani nenapadlo :) Je pravda, ze soudruzi v Cine a Tchajwanu asi agregaci delaji pro to, aby se vytahlo vic nez 100Mbps a ne proto, abychom na tom delali 20Mbps :) K Petr Seliger napsal(a): > Cituji z emailu od Jakub Sykora : > >> Some advanced switches support multiple ports to be aggregated. I did >> not try it although we have some in our network... > > Podporujou ale jen jako 2* nebo 4* 100Mbps fullduplex. Co by chodilo s ronjou na > 10 jsem jeste nevidel. > >> K >> >> Karel Kulhavy napsal(a): >>> Yes you can aggregate the bandwidths together. But I think if it's not >> possible >>> that the network distributes the packets into the links. With OSPF or BGP >>> this is surely not possible as they choose always only one way for the >> data. >>> You could maybe link aggregation over a virtual link created by tunnel >>> Linux could support this. Otherwise there may be some advanced, new or >>> experimental protocols I don't know about. >>> >>> If you have large or complicated enough network the traffic could balance >>> itself stochastically even with OSPF and BGP - data want to go the shortest >> way >>> and what is the shortest for one destination is not shortest for another. >>> >>> CL< >>> >>> On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 10:34:43PM -0400, kqj rocks wrote: >>>> I know the ronja can be used as an ethernet based internet backbone. If >> this is true will I be able to use them for an internet backhaul system to >> hop data from ronja to ronja and increase speed of internet data transfer to >> route internet data over a mesh network. since the ronja can be used as an >> internet backbone can it be used to act as a 10mbps backbone for an >> ultra-high speed network where the internet speed of the wireless network is >> 10mbps x number of ronjas plus the speed of the mesh network's internet > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja na lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja -- Jakub S?kora email: kubajz na kbx.cz <') ICQ: 68976632 ( =- mobil: +420 777 594 201 '' ------------- dal?? ??st --------------- Netextov? p??loha byla odstran?na... Jm?no: kubajz.vcf Typ: text/x-vcard Velikost: 265 bytes Popis: [??dn? popis nen? k dispozici] Url : http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20060831/6fd830ae/attachment-0001.vcf