From cd930 at centrum.cz  Mon Apr  3 12:48:36 2006
From: cd930 at centrum.cz (-=RYS=-)
Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2006 13:48:36 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Fotky
Message-ID: <200604031348.19769@centrum.cz>

Ahoj lidi,
dnes jsem s kamaradem (OK1TBP) rozjel radioamatersky prevadec OK0BEZ.
Na stejnem miste jsem namontoval pred par mesici 2 Ronji (mnou modifikovane).
Takze na webu prevadece jsou videt zajimave fotky instalaci Ronji.
www.qsl.net/ok0bez
Ahoj? -=RYS=-???? Martin OK1MJO


------------- dal?? ??st ---------------
HTML p??loha byla odstran?na...
URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20060403/d0da9767/attachment.html

From asteri_x at freemail.hu  Wed Apr  5 10:33:03 2006
From: asteri_x at freemail.hu (Martin)
Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2006 11:33:03 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Ronja - 100Mbps
In-Reply-To: <a0623092ec0522c096385@[130.161.115.44]>
References: <ops68iveatn6qjls@daman> <a0623092cc051ad57b17c@[130.161.115.44]>
	<ops68xenaun6qjls@daman> <a0623092ec0522c096385@[130.161.115.44]>
Message-ID: <44338ECF.6030304@freemail.hu>

> algorithms. A CPLD is just much nicer to have while prototyping ;-)

Also for production, because then it is upgradable :)
Most CPLDs are easy to get now.
XC9536XL-10VQ64C costs 3.07? at www.rs-components.at
XC9572XL-10TQ100I costs 7.25? and can hold 6480 product terms.
The 74xxxx series costs between 0.25? and 1.50?, so you get _much_ more 
if you use a CPLD.
And it is smaller...

Bye,
Martin



From wacx at email.cz  Thu Apr  6 14:52:43 2006
From: wacx at email.cz (WaCX)
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 15:52:43 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] nahrada vysilaci led luxeonem?
References: <140.1619-15850-1966193405-1143551774@seznam.cz><1143657248.442ad3204ca64@desitka.sh.cvut.cz><442AF970.6040507@seznam.cz><1143723126.442bd47629266@desitka.sh.cvut.cz><442C4393.2050109@seznam.cz>
	<1143790478.442cdb8e95029@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
Message-ID: <000d01c65981$61347980$0201a8c0@wacxnote>

Zdravim,
narazil na nasledujici problemy,
1) ani s 60+100mm cockama jsem nebyl schopen solidne navazat 30? 15lm 630nm 
ledku,
velka cast svetelneho toku konci na vnitri stene roury, je to normalni nebo 
nekde delam chybu?
2) vsiml jsem si ze cocky !znacnou cast svetla odrazeji zpet, nasel nekdo 
zpusob jak toto omezit?
wacx
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Petr Seliger" <seligr at sh.cvut.cz>
To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
Sent: Friday, March 31, 2006 9:34 AM
Subject: Re: [Ronja] nahrada vysilaci led luxeonem?


> Cituji z emailu od Pavel Krejci <krepa at seznam.cz>:
>
>> Petr Seliger napsal(a):
>> > Cituji z emailu od Pavel Krejci <krepa at seznam.cz>:
>> >
>> >> Amtek by to neumel?
>> >> Jo samozrejme to nebude za cenu co je na webu odhaduju tak 2x az 3x
>> tolik.
>> >>
>> >> Tusis kolik stoji drzsi laser, kterej uz ma prijatelny detekcni diody?
>> >>
>> > Tam nejde o kvalitu diod, tam jde proste o rozptyl parametru. Tam je to
>> stejny
>> > jako s 5% a 1% odpory. 1% to uplne ty samy, akorat je vyrobce prebral a
>> necha si
>> > to zaplatit. U laseru je pak vlivem nestejnosti parametru polovodice a
>> toleranci
>> > uchyceni laseru proti fotodiode.
>> >
>>
>> No jasne to chapu. Ptal jsem se jestli tusis od jake cenove hranice uz
>> ma ten laser prijatelny parametry, ze by sel pouzit ten svab bez dalsich
>> vyfikundaci ;o)
>
> Jedina wifikundace je v tom nastavit jednim potakem opticky vykon. Jde jen 
> o to
> ze pomer fotoproud monitorovaci diody vs. opticky vykon z laseru se lisi o
> konstantu. Fotoproud ma velikost radove 10-100uA na mW vykonu. No a dejme 
> tomu u
> 10mW diody kdyz prestavis o par mW tak snizis jeji zivot o tisice hodin.
> A vtip je v tom ze bez meraku optickeho vykonu muzes jen hadat.
> "Vochcat" se to da pouzitim VCSELu ktery neni tak haklovy jenze si to zase 
> shanej.
> Nebo druha moznost je pokud mas promerenou Pout/I charakteristiku diody a 
> vys
> jak ten laser funguje, tak se pomoci uP da udelat autokalibrace.
>
>>
>> PK
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja 



From jakub.michnik at centrum.cz  Thu Apr  6 21:19:13 2006
From: jakub.michnik at centrum.cz (Jakub =?windows-1250?Q?=20Michn=EDk?=)
Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2006 22:19:13 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] nahrada vysilaci led luxeonem?
In-Reply-To: <000d01c65981$61347980$0201a8c0@wacxnote>
References: 140.1619-15850-1966193405-1143551774@seznam.cz><1143657248.442ad3204ca64@desitka.sh.cvut.cz><442AF970.6040507@seznam.cz><1143723126.442bd47629266@desitka.sh.cvut.cz><442C4393.2050109@seznam.cz>
	<000d01c65981$61347980$0201a8c0@wacxnote>
Message-ID: <200604062219.25133@centrum.cz>



______________________________________________________________
> Od: wacx at email.cz
> Komu: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
> CC: 
> Datum: 06.04.2006 15:52
> P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] nahrada vysilaci led luxeonem?
>
> Zdravim,
> narazil na nasledujici problemy,
> 1) ani s 60+100mm cockama jsem nebyl schopen solidne navazat 30? 15lm
> 630nm ledku,
> velka cast svetelneho toku konci na vnitri stene roury, je to normalni
> nebo nekde delam chybu?

asi delas nekde chybu, co je to za typ ledky?  jinak toho svetla jde dycky docela dost do kytek a moc s tim nenadelas :(

> 2) vsiml jsem si ze cocky !znacnou cast svetla odrazeji zpet, nasel nekdo
> zpusob jak toto omezit?

koupit lepsi cocky, ale pomer cena vykon neni vyhodny. 

> wacx
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Petr Seliger" <seligr @sh.cvut.cz="">
> To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja @lists.pointless.net="">
> Sent: Friday, March 31, 2006 9:34 AM
> Subject: Re: [Ronja] nahrada vysilaci led luxeonem?
> 
> 
> > Cituji z emailu od Pavel Krejci <krepa @seznam.cz="">:
> >
> >> Petr Seliger napsal(a):
> >> > Cituji z emailu od Pavel Krejci <krepa @seznam.cz="">:
> >> >
> >> >> Amtek by to neumel?
> >> >> Jo samozrejme to nebude za cenu co je na webu odhaduju tak 2x az 3x
> >> tolik.
> >> >>
> >> >> Tusis kolik stoji drzsi laser, kterej uz ma prijatelny detekcni
> diody?
> >> >>
> >> > Tam nejde o kvalitu diod, tam jde proste o rozptyl parametru. Tam je
> to
> >> stejny
> >> > jako s 5% a 1% odpory. 1% to uplne ty samy, akorat je vyrobce prebral
> a
> >> necha si
> >> > to zaplatit. U laseru je pak vlivem nestejnosti parametru polovodice
> a
> >> toleranci
> >> > uchyceni laseru proti fotodiode.
> >> >
> >>
> >> No jasne to chapu. Ptal jsem se jestli tusis od jake cenove hranice uz
> >> ma ten laser prijatelny parametry, ze by sel pouzit ten svab bez
> dalsich
> >> vyfikundaci ;o)
> >
> > Jedina wifikundace je v tom nastavit jednim potakem opticky vykon. Jde
> jen > o to
> > ze pomer fotoproud monitorovaci diody vs. opticky vykon z laseru se lisi
> o
> > konstantu. Fotoproud ma velikost radove 10-100uA na mW vykonu. No a
> dejme > tomu u
> > 10mW diody kdyz prestavis o par mW tak snizis jeji zivot o tisice hodin.
> > A vtip je v tom ze bez meraku optickeho vykonu muzes jen hadat.
> > "Vochcat" se to da pouzitim VCSELu ktery neni tak haklovy jenze si to
> zase > shanej.
> > Nebo druha moznost je pokud mas promerenou Pout/I charakteristiku diody
> a > vys
> > jak ten laser funguje, tak se pomoci uP da udelat autokalibrace.
> >
> >>
> >> PK
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ronja mailing list
> > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> </krepa></krepa></ronja></seligr>



From antitron at web.de  Fri Apr  7 19:38:14 2006
From: antitron at web.de (Thomas Egenhofer)
Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2006 20:38:14 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] signal coding,pseudo manchester?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1144407601.12117.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
References: <mailman.1.1144407601.12117.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
Message-ID: <1144435094.19647.16.camel@localhost.localdomain>

hi there,

i'm back again (after spending another few weeks in research)
on my way to build a rs232(later usb) based reliable low-kost link i
designed my own little manchester en/decoder. the nice thing: even
without any signal to transmit the average voltage/light is kept.
it's correcting itself if signal gets out of clock (needs 4 bit-lenght
duration works with no signal too since its encoded)

now thought about the 10mbit manchester code. they dont encode the
"no"-signal,ugly cause it would simplify so much.
do you think it could be an advantage to decode the 10mbit manchester
signal (or grab it un-encoded from a network chip) and reencode it
including the no-signal?(i belive i saw a de/encoder ic somewhere on the
net working up to 50mhz... not shure)
would spare the 1mhz idle signal stuffed between the packages in
exchange to some (ok not really few about 7-9 means about 1 IC) D-FF and
other logic.

i admit a manchester decoder is nasty. but if there is anyone out there
who like to try it.. would be great. 100mbit still seems to have the
best base to wrap a simple electronic around it.

greetings
thommy e



From clock at twibright.com  Sat Apr  8 08:11:08 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2006 09:11:08 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Dorkbot Prague
In-Reply-To: <50261.195.176.254.254.1144252421.squirrel@services.hgkz.ch>
References: <66D2A2FF-5EAF-4CC6-8308-D27659305967@gmx.at>
	<20060405151551.GB31587@kestrel.barix.local>
	<50261.195.176.254.254.1144252421.squirrel@services.hgkz.ch>
Message-ID: <20060408071108.GA6287@kestrel>

Does anyone want to talk about Ronja or other electronic stuff at
Dorkbot Prague?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorkbot

On Wed, Apr 05, 2006 at 05:53:41PM +0200, Monya Pletsch wrote:
> dorkbot prague will have the same open approach to present projects that
> are in the field of "people doing strange things with electricity".
> so any project that deals with electricity in a creativ way is welcome.

if yes write to monya at gmx.at

CL<


From hollari1 at gmx.at  Sat Apr  8 20:48:33 2006
From: hollari1 at gmx.at (Sigfried Hollrigl)
Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2006 21:48:33 +0200 (MEST)
Subject: [Ronja] Simplifying Ronja
References: <mailman.1.1144494001.4372.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
Message-ID: <25203.1144525713@www101.gmx.net>

Hello, everybody !

I have now ordered 2 pcs. of USB to IrDA Sticks
from Ebay. (www.ebay.at Number : 8789784802 )
They cost only a few Euro.
(I think 16 euro incl. shipping for 2 pcs.)

What i read in the specifications, they support
FIR (Fast IRda), that means 4 MBit per second.

What do you think (especially @clock)
Will this be possible to extend the Range by
using Optics (and if necessary RX+TX) from Ronja ?

Maybe someone knows more about such experiments.
Is there a possibility to run it Full-Duplex ?
Are there other specifications about IrDA with
even higer Bit-Rates ?

If yes, maybe this would be a good start Point
for Ronjas faster than 10MBit/s.

Sigi

-- 
Echte DSL-Flatrate dauerhaft f?r 0,- Euro*!
"Feel free" mit GMX DSL! http://www.gmx.net/de/go/dsl


From klapek at kki.net.pl  Sun Apr  9 09:01:45 2006
From: klapek at kki.net.pl (Tomasz Koprowski)
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 10:01:45 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Simplifying Ronja
In-Reply-To: <25203.1144525713@www101.gmx.net>
References: <mailman.1.1144494001.4372.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
	<25203.1144525713@www101.gmx.net>
Message-ID: <200604091001.45973.klapek@kki.net.pl>

On Saturday 08 of April 2006 21:48, Sigfried Hollrigl wrote:

> What do you think (especially @clock)
> Will this be possible to extend the Range by
> using Optics (and if necessary RX+TX) from Ronja ?
>
> Maybe someone knows more about such experiments.

AFAIR before building Ronja the way it is today, Clock
experimented with an IrDA-based link. I didn't bother
to check the archives, but as I recall the project was
decomissioned by throwing out the window.

Tomek Koprowski


From antitron at web.de  Sun Apr  9 12:48:34 2006
From: antitron at web.de (Thomas Egenhofer)
Date: Sun, 09 Apr 2006 13:48:34 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Simplifying Ronja
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1144580401.13775.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
References: <mailman.1.1144580401.13775.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
Message-ID: <1144583314.2725.6.camel@localhost.localdomain>


> Maybe someone knows more about such experiments.
> Is there a possibility to run it Full-Duplex ?
> Are there other specifications about IrDA with
> even higer Bit-Rates ?
> 
> If yes, maybe this would be a good start Point
> for Ronjas faster than 10MBit/s.
> 

if i remember correctly there is a VFIR standart (i think it was
16mbit).
but the only hardware i found was all-in-one packages with receiver and
transmitter and all other stuff in one chip.
if you can get seperated hardware, why not give it a try again. if not
you would need a opto-cuppling like thing.

and even if you get 16mbit to work. well 10 are already working.
but the usb->irda chip (in case its not integrated in the
transmitter/receiver) could be intresting.

greetings
thommy



From clock at twibright.com  Mon Apr 10 12:09:21 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 13:09:21 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Simplifying Ronja
In-Reply-To: <1144583314.2725.6.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <mailman.1.1144580401.13775.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
	<1144583314.2725.6.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <20060410110921.GC31566@kestrel.barix.local>

On Sun, Apr 09, 2006 at 01:48:34PM +0200, Thomas Egenhofer wrote:
> 
> > Maybe someone knows more about such experiments.
> > Is there a possibility to run it Full-Duplex ?
> > Are there other specifications about IrDA with
> > even higer Bit-Rates ?
> > 
> > If yes, maybe this would be a good start Point
> > for Ronjas faster than 10MBit/s.
> > 
> 
> if i remember correctly there is a VFIR standart (i think it was
> 16mbit).  but the only hardware i found was all-in-one packages with

Is it full duplex? Is there a BugFree(TM) implementation of a
transceiver chip?

CL<
> receiver and
> transmitter and all other stuff in one chip.
> if you can get seperated hardware, why not give it a try again. if not
> you would need a opto-cuppling like thing.
> 
> and even if you get 16mbit to work. well 10 are already working.
> but the usb->irda chip (in case its not integrated in the
> transmitter/receiver) could be intresting.
> 
> greetings
> thommy
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From wacx at email.cz  Mon Apr 10 13:05:35 2006
From: wacx at email.cz (WaCX)
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 14:05:35 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] (no subject)
Message-ID: <006201c65c97$1330cc20$0201a8c0@wacxnote>

nevi nekdo kde sehnat 2x2cm slidove podlozky nebo izolacni folii(co 
byva pod tranzistorama v AT zdrojich) bez der?
thx
wacx



From glo at glottis.net  Mon Apr 10 13:18:24 2006
From: glo at glottis.net (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Michal_Malusek?=)
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 14:18:24 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] (no subject)
References: <006201c65c97$1330cc20$0201a8c0@wacxnote>
Message-ID: <000501c65c98$ddae7460$0103450a@Glottis>

www.gme.cz


glo

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "WaCX" <wacx na email.cz>
To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja na lists.pointless.net>
Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 2:05 PM
Subject: [Ronja] (no subject)


> nevi nekdo kde sehnat 2x2cm slidove podlozky nebo izolacni folii(co 
> byva pod tranzistorama v AT zdrojich) bez der?
> thx
> wacx
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 


From schum at seznam.cz  Mon Apr 10 13:28:13 2006
From: schum at seznam.cz (Miroslav Schumann)
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 14:28:13 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <006201c65c97$1330cc20$0201a8c0@wacxnote>
References: <006201c65c97$1330cc20$0201a8c0@wacxnote>
Message-ID: <443A4F5D.20802@seznam.cz>

WaCX napsal(a):
> nevi nekdo kde sehnat 2x2cm slidove podlozky nebo izolacni folii(co 
> byva pod tranzistorama v AT zdrojich) bez der?
> thx
> wacx
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>
>   
2x2cm vystrihnes treba z podlozky pod TO3, ale budes tam mit 2 dirky 
cca1,5mm prumeru, koupis treba v Compu, GME,PSel atd.

Schum


From wacx at email.cz  Mon Apr 10 13:34:05 2006
From: wacx at email.cz (WaCX)
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 14:34:05 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] (no subject)
References: <006201c65c97$1330cc20$0201a8c0@wacxnote>
	<000501c65c98$ddae7460$0103450a@Glottis>
Message-ID: <002d01c65c9b$0e839af0$0201a8c0@wacxnote>

nj, to by me nenapadlo:-)
jenze nejvetsi co jsem nasel je pro TOP3 a ten ma sirku 15mm a jeste diru:-(
potrebuju alespon 20x20 bez der


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Michal Malusek" <glo at glottis.net>
To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 2:18 PM
Subject: Re: [Ronja] (no subject)


> www.gme.cz
>
>
> glo
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "WaCX" <wacx at email.cz>
> To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
> Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 2:05 PM
> Subject: [Ronja] (no subject)
>
>
>> nevi nekdo kde sehnat 2x2cm slidove podlozky nebo izolacni folii(co
>> byva pod tranzistorama v AT zdrojich) bez der?
>> thx
>> wacx
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ronja mailing list
>> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja 



From jakub.michnik at centrum.cz  Mon Apr 10 13:37:11 2006
From: jakub.michnik at centrum.cz (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jakub_Michn=EDk?=)
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 14:37:11 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <443A4F5D.20802@seznam.cz>
References: <006201c65c97$1330cc20$0201a8c0@wacxnote>
	<443A4F5D.20802@seznam.cz>
Message-ID: <443A5177.50708@centrum.cz>

ja jsem jednou v ostrave v hadexu (obchod kde maji hlavne tesla 
soucastky)koupil kusy slidy, mohlo to mit rozmer tak zhruba 4x8cm, ale 
byly to takove ruzno tvary, nic moc kvalita. tak mozna zkus nejaky 
takovy obchod. oni tam meli i nahradni kusy telivizi, ruske potaky a tak.

Miroslav Schumann napsal(a):
> WaCX napsal(a):
>   
>> nevi nekdo kde sehnat 2x2cm slidove podlozky nebo izolacni folii(co 
>> byva pod tranzistorama v AT zdrojich) bez der?
>> thx
>> wacx
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ronja mailing list
>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>>
>>   
>>     
> 2x2cm vystrihnes treba z podlozky pod TO3, ale budes tam mit 2 dirky 
> cca1,5mm prumeru, koupis treba v Compu, GME,PSel atd.
>
> Schum
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>
>
>   



From jakub.michnik at centrum.cz  Mon Apr 10 13:41:00 2006
From: jakub.michnik at centrum.cz (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jakub_Michn=EDk?=)
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 14:41:00 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <002d01c65c9b$0e839af0$0201a8c0@wacxnote>
References: <006201c65c97$1330cc20$0201a8c0@wacxnote>	<000501c65c98$ddae7460$0103450a@Glottis>
	<002d01c65c9b$0e839af0$0201a8c0@wacxnote>
Message-ID: <443A525C.8050108@centrum.cz>

a pod co to mas? dej 2 vedle sebe. nebo vic vedle sebe a tu dirku 
ustrihni. pokud to nebudes delat v nakem bordelu napr. v kupce zeleznych 
pilin, tak by tam ani ta durka nevadila. ta slida je dost tlusta a pokud 
mas cisty, rovny chladic a soucastku, tak se to nevyzkratuje. ale nahoda 
je blbec no....

WaCX napsal(a):
> nj, to by me nenapadlo:-)
> jenze nejvetsi co jsem nasel je pro TOP3 a ten ma sirku 15mm a jeste diru:-(
> potrebuju alespon 20x20 bez der
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Michal Malusek" <glo na glottis.net>
> To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja na lists.pointless.net>
> Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 2:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [Ronja] (no subject)
>
>
>   
>> www.gme.cz
>>
>>
>> glo
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "WaCX" <wacx na email.cz>
>> To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja na lists.pointless.net>
>> Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 2:05 PM
>> Subject: [Ronja] (no subject)
>>
>>
>>     
>>> nevi nekdo kde sehnat 2x2cm slidove podlozky nebo izolacni folii(co
>>> byva pod tranzistorama v AT zdrojich) bez der?
>>> thx
>>> wacx
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Ronja mailing list
>>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
>>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>>>
>>>       
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ronja mailing list
>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja 
>>     
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>
>
>   



From wacx at email.cz  Mon Apr 10 13:45:31 2006
From: wacx at email.cz (WaCX)
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 14:45:31 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] (no subject)
References: <006201c65c97$1330cc20$0201a8c0@wacxnote>	<000501c65c98$ddae7460$0103450a@Glottis><002d01c65c9b$0e839af0$0201a8c0@wacxnote>
	<443A525C.8050108@centrum.cz>
Message-ID: <007001c65c9c$a82f17f0$0201a8c0@wacxnote>

thx za tip,
mam to pod tu 1W ledku, zjistil jsem ze potrebuje zatracene velky pasivni 
chladic a kdyz ji spinam proti +5V a gnd ma na chladici tak bych mel na 
10MHz ze zebrovanyho chladice asi docela slusnou rusicku:-)
wacx
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jakub Michn?k" <jakub.michnik at centrum.cz>
To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 2:41 PM
Subject: Re: [Ronja] (no subject)


>a pod co to mas? dej 2 vedle sebe. nebo vic vedle sebe a tu dirku
> ustrihni. pokud to nebudes delat v nakem bordelu napr. v kupce zeleznych
> pilin, tak by tam ani ta durka nevadila. ta slida je dost tlusta a pokud
> mas cisty, rovny chladic a soucastku, tak se to nevyzkratuje. ale nahoda
> je blbec no....
>
> WaCX napsal(a):
>> nj, to by me nenapadlo:-)
>> jenze nejvetsi co jsem nasel je pro TOP3 a ten ma sirku 15mm a jeste 
>> diru:-(
>> potrebuju alespon 20x20 bez der
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Michal Malusek" <glo at glottis.net>
>> To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
>> Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 2:18 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Ronja] (no subject)
>>
>>
>>
>>> www.gme.cz
>>>
>>>
>>> glo
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "WaCX" <wacx at email.cz>
>>> To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
>>> Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 2:05 PM
>>> Subject: [Ronja] (no subject)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> nevi nekdo kde sehnat 2x2cm slidove podlozky nebo izolacni folii(co
>>>> byva pod tranzistorama v AT zdrojich) bez der?
>>>> thx
>>>> wacx
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Ronja mailing list
>>>> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
>>>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>>>>
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Ronja mailing list
>>> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
>>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ronja mailing list
>> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja 



From glo at glottis.net  Mon Apr 10 13:46:29 2006
From: glo at glottis.net (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Michal_Malusek?=)
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 14:46:29 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] (no subject)
References: <006201c65c97$1330cc20$0201a8c0@wacxnote><000501c65c98$ddae7460$0103450a@Glottis>
	<002d01c65c9b$0e839af0$0201a8c0@wacxnote>
Message-ID: <000f01c65c9c$c9bd7c90$0103450a@Glottis>

621-021SIS-TOP3ANO 6.997 0.241741      19%
silikon. podlozka 20x24mm 10kV/mm 0,4K/W

jestli ma diru nevim ale rozmer splnuje. jinak asi nic jineho nesezenes

glo

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "WaCX" <wacx na email.cz>
To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja na lists.pointless.net>
Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 2:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Ronja] (no subject)


> nj, to by me nenapadlo:-)
> jenze nejvetsi co jsem nasel je pro TOP3 a ten ma sirku 15mm a jeste
diru:-(
> potrebuju alespon 20x20 bez der
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Michal Malusek" <glo na glottis.net>
> To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja na lists.pointless.net>
> Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 2:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [Ronja] (no subject)
>
>
> > www.gme.cz
> >
> >
> > glo
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "WaCX" <wacx na email.cz>
> > To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja na lists.pointless.net>
> > Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 2:05 PM
> > Subject: [Ronja] (no subject)
> >
> >
> >> nevi nekdo kde sehnat 2x2cm slidove podlozky nebo izolacni folii(co
> >> byva pod tranzistorama v AT zdrojich) bez der?
> >> thx
> >> wacx
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Ronja mailing list
> >> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
> >> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ronja mailing list
> > Ronja na lists.pointless.net
> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>



From seligr at sh.cvut.cz  Mon Apr 10 15:17:19 2006
From: seligr at sh.cvut.cz (Petr Seliger)
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 16:17:19 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <007001c65c9c$a82f17f0$0201a8c0@wacxnote>
References: <006201c65c97$1330cc20$0201a8c0@wacxnote>
	<000501c65c98$ddae7460$0103450a@Glottis><002d01c65c9b$0e839af0$0201a8c0@wacxnote>
	<443A525C.8050108@centrum.cz>
	<007001c65c9c$a82f17f0$0201a8c0@wacxnote>
Message-ID: <1144678639.443a68efd63da@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>

By se tam mohla dat kaptonova paska. Potrebnou sirku by mohli mit v
www.wlchemco.cz nebo to odizolovat peltierovym clankem. Kdyz se ta dioda
vychladi tak vyrazne zvysi svetelny tok :)

> thx za tip,
> mam to pod tu 1W ledku, zjistil jsem ze potrebuje zatracene velky pasivni 
> chladic a kdyz ji spinam proti +5V a gnd ma na chladici tak bych mel na 
> 10MHz ze zebrovanyho chladice asi docela slusnou rusicku:-)
> wacx
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Jakub Michn?k" <jakub.michnik at centrum.cz>
> To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
> Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 2:41 PM
> Subject: Re: [Ronja] (no subject)
> 
> 
> >a pod co to mas? dej 2 vedle sebe. nebo vic vedle sebe a tu dirku
> > ustrihni. pokud to nebudes delat v nakem bordelu napr. v kupce zeleznych
> > pilin, tak by tam ani ta durka nevadila. ta slida je dost tlusta a pokud
> > mas cisty, rovny chladic a soucastku, tak se to nevyzkratuje. ale nahoda
> > je blbec no....
> >



From jakub.michnik at centrum.cz  Mon Apr 10 15:23:32 2006
From: jakub.michnik at centrum.cz (=?ISO-8859-2?Q?Jakub_Michn=EDk?=)
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 16:23:32 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <1144678639.443a68efd63da@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
References: <006201c65c97$1330cc20$0201a8c0@wacxnote>	<000501c65c98$ddae7460$0103450a@Glottis><002d01c65c9b$0e839af0$0201a8c0@wacxnote>	<443A525C.8050108@centrum.cz>	<007001c65c9c$a82f17f0$0201a8c0@wacxnote>
	<1144678639.443a68efd63da@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
Message-ID: <443A6A64.2060807@centrum.cz>

pelt. clanek ma na vrchu kovovou desku ne? btw co je to za diodu? naky 
luxeon ci co?

Petr Seliger napsal(a):
> By se tam mohla dat kaptonova paska. Potrebnou sirku by mohli mit v
> www.wlchemco.cz nebo to odizolovat peltierovym clankem. Kdyz se ta dioda
> vychladi tak vyrazne zvysi svetelny tok :)
>
>   
>> thx za tip,
>> mam to pod tu 1W ledku, zjistil jsem ze potrebuje zatracene velky pasivni 
>> chladic a kdyz ji spinam proti +5V a gnd ma na chladici tak bych mel na 
>> 10MHz ze zebrovanyho chladice asi docela slusnou rusicku:-)
>> wacx
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Jakub Michn?k" <jakub.michnik na centrum.cz>
>> To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja na lists.pointless.net>
>> Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 2:41 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Ronja] (no subject)
>>
>>
>>     
>>> a pod co to mas? dej 2 vedle sebe. nebo vic vedle sebe a tu dirku
>>> ustrihni. pokud to nebudes delat v nakem bordelu napr. v kupce zeleznych
>>> pilin, tak by tam ani ta durka nevadila. ta slida je dost tlusta a pokud
>>> mas cisty, rovny chladic a soucastku, tak se to nevyzkratuje. ale nahoda
>>> je blbec no....
>>>
>>>       
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>
>
>   



From elspeedy at centrum.cz  Mon Apr 10 17:17:45 2006
From: elspeedy at centrum.cz (Elspeedy)
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 18:17:45 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] (no subject)
References: <006201c65c97$1330cc20$0201a8c0@wacxnote><000501c65c98$ddae7460$0103450a@Glottis><002d01c65c9b$0e839af0$0201a8c0@wacxnote><443A525C.8050108@centrum.cz><007001c65c9c$a82f17f0$0201a8c0@wacxnote>
	<1144678639.443a68efd63da@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
Message-ID: <000701c65cba$4d7dcb80$0201a8c0@elhamobil.cz>

www.elchemco.cz


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Petr Seliger" <seligr na sh.cvut.cz>
To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja na lists.pointless.net>
Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 4:17 PM
Subject: Re: [Ronja] (no subject)


By se tam mohla dat kaptonova paska. Potrebnou sirku by mohli mit v
www.wlchemco.cz nebo to odizolovat peltierovym clankem. Kdyz se ta dioda
vychladi tak vyrazne zvysi svetelny tok :)

> thx za tip,
> mam to pod tu 1W ledku, zjistil jsem ze potrebuje zatracene velky pasivni
> chladic a kdyz ji spinam proti +5V a gnd ma na chladici tak bych mel na
> 10MHz ze zebrovanyho chladice asi docela slusnou rusicku:-)
> wacx
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Jakub Michn?k" <jakub.michnik na centrum.cz>
> To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja na lists.pointless.net>
> Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 2:41 PM
> Subject: Re: [Ronja] (no subject)
>
>
> >a pod co to mas? dej 2 vedle sebe. nebo vic vedle sebe a tu dirku
> > ustrihni. pokud to nebudes delat v nakem bordelu napr. v kupce zeleznych
> > pilin, tak by tam ani ta durka nevadila. ta slida je dost tlusta a pokud
> > mas cisty, rovny chladic a soucastku, tak se to nevyzkratuje. ale nahoda
> > je blbec no....
> >


_______________________________________________
Ronja mailing list
Ronja na lists.pointless.net
http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja



-- 
P??choz? zpr?va neobsahuje viry.
Zkontrolov?no Antivirov?m syst?mem AVG.
Verze: 7.1.384 / Virov? b?ze: 268.4.0/306 - datum vyd?n?: 9.4.2006




-- 
Odchoz? zpr?va neobsahuje viry, proto?e byla odesl?na z Linuxu.
Zkontrolov?no Antivirov?m syst?mem AVG.
Verze: 7.1.384 / Virov? b?ze: 268.4.0/306 - datum vyd?n?: 9.4.2006



From seligr at sh.cvut.cz  Mon Apr 10 18:37:27 2006
From: seligr at sh.cvut.cz (Petr Seliger)
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 19:37:27 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <443A6A64.2060807@centrum.cz>
References: <006201c65c97$1330cc20$0201a8c0@wacxnote>
	<000501c65c98$ddae7460$0103450a@Glottis><002d01c65c9b$0e839af0$0201a8c0@wacxnote>
	<443A525C.8050108@centrum.cz>
	<007001c65c9c$a82f17f0$0201a8c0@wacxnote>
	<1144678639.443a68efd63da@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
	<443A6A64.2060807@centrum.cz>
Message-ID: <1144690647.443a97d767bc9@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>

Ty z gme maj bily desky z elektricky nevodiveho korundu Al2O3. Naopak tepelnou
vodivost ma velmi dobrou a je to na tom peltieru prakticky nejdrazsi soucast.

Diodu tam ma borec asi Luxeon z gm. Asi typ ND98. Ale budi to soude podle popisu
druhym nejblbejsim zpusobem.

Cituji z emailu od Jakub Michn?k <jakub.michnik at centrum.cz>:

> pelt. clanek ma na vrchu kovovou desku ne? btw co je to za diodu? naky 
> luxeon ci co?
> 
> Petr Seliger napsal(a):
> > By se tam mohla dat kaptonova paska. Potrebnou sirku by mohli mit v
> > www.wlchemco.cz nebo to odizolovat peltierovym clankem. Kdyz se ta dioda
> > vychladi tak vyrazne zvysi svetelny tok :)
> >
> >   
> >> thx za tip,
> >> mam to pod tu 1W ledku, zjistil jsem ze potrebuje zatracene velky pasivni
> 
> >> chladic a kdyz ji spinam proti +5V a gnd ma na chladici tak bych mel na 
> >> 10MHz ze zebrovanyho chladice asi docela slusnou rusicku:-)
> >> wacx
> >> ----- Original Message ----- 
> >> From: "Jakub Michn?k" <jakub.michnik at centrum.cz>
> >> To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
> >> Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 2:41 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [Ronja] (no subject)
> >>
> >>
> >>     



From seligr at sh.cvut.cz  Mon Apr 10 18:44:26 2006
From: seligr at sh.cvut.cz (Petr Seliger)
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 19:44:26 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <000701c65cba$4d7dcb80$0201a8c0@elhamobil.cz>
References: <006201c65c97$1330cc20$0201a8c0@wacxnote><000501c65c98$ddae7460$0103450a@Glottis><002d01c65c9b$0e839af0$0201a8c0@wacxnote><443A525C.8050108@centrum.cz><007001c65c9c$a82f17f0$0201a8c0@wacxnote>
	<1144678639.443a68efd63da@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
	<000701c65cba$4d7dcb80$0201a8c0@elhamobil.cz>
Message-ID: <1144691066.443a997a7cc85@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>

Ehmm, presneji http://www.elchemco.cz/KAPTON.htm
Maj tam i sirku 50mm, ja to pouzivam na tesneni aparatury na destilaci dymave
kyseliny dusicne a kupodivu vydrzi o neco dele nez teflonova. Ale nakonec ji to
sezere taky :(

Cituji z emailu od Elspeedy <elspeedy at centrum.cz>:

> www.elchemco.cz
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Petr Seliger" <seligr at sh.cvut.cz>
> To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
> Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 4:17 PM
> Subject: Re: [Ronja] (no subject)
> 
> 
> By se tam mohla dat kaptonova paska. Potrebnou sirku by mohli mit v
> www.wlchemco.cz nebo to odizolovat peltierovym clankem. Kdyz se ta dioda
> vychladi tak vyrazne zvysi svetelny tok :)
> 
> > thx za tip,
> > mam to pod tu 1W ledku, zjistil jsem ze potrebuje zatracene velky pasivni
> > chladic a kdyz ji spinam proti +5V a gnd ma na chladici tak bych mel na
> > 10MHz ze zebrovanyho chladice asi docela slusnou rusicku:-)
> > wacx
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Jakub Michn?k" <jakub.michnik at centrum.cz>
> > To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
> > Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 2:41 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Ronja] (no subject)
> >
> >
> > >a pod co to mas? dej 2 vedle sebe. nebo vic vedle sebe a tu dirku
> > > ustrihni. pokud to nebudes delat v nakem bordelu napr. v kupce zeleznych
> > > pilin, tak by tam ani ta durka nevadila. ta slida je dost tlusta a pokud
> > > mas cisty, rovny chladic a soucastku, tak se to nevyzkratuje. ale nahoda
> > > je blbec no....
> > >
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> P??choz? zpr?va neobsahuje viry.
> Zkontrolov?no Antivirov?m syst?mem AVG.
> Verze: 7.1.384 / Virov? b?ze: 268.4.0/306 - datum vyd?n?: 9.4.2006
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Odchoz? zpr?va neobsahuje viry, proto&#65533;e byla odesl?na z Linuxu.
> Zkontrolov?no Antivirov?m syst?mem AVG.
> Verze: 7.1.384 / Virov? b?ze: 268.4.0/306 - datum vyd?n?: 9.4.2006
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 





From wacx at email.cz  Mon Apr 10 22:15:57 2006
From: wacx at email.cz (WaCX)
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 23:15:57 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] (no subject)
References: <006201c65c97$1330cc20$0201a8c0@wacxnote><000501c65c98$ddae7460$0103450a@Glottis><002d01c65c9b$0e839af0$0201a8c0@wacxnote><443A525C.8050108@centrum.cz><007001c65c9c$a82f17f0$0201a8c0@wacxnote><1144678639.443a68efd63da@desitka.sh.cvut.cz><443A6A64.2060807@centrum.cz>
	<1144690647.443a97d767bc9@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
Message-ID: <002301c65ce3$f5b29190$0201a8c0@wacxnote>

njn, netvrdim ze je to nejlepsi reseni, ja nejsem zadnej guru a tohle je jen 
experiment, ale co kdyby to fungovalo?:-)
wacx
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Petr Seliger" <seligr at sh.cvut.cz>
To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 7:37 PM
Subject: Re: [Ronja] (no subject)


Ty z gme maj bily desky z elektricky nevodiveho korundu Al2O3. Naopak 
tepelnou
vodivost ma velmi dobrou a je to na tom peltieru prakticky nejdrazsi 
soucast.

Diodu tam ma borec asi Luxeon z gm. Asi typ ND98. Ale budi to soude podle 
popisu
druhym nejblbejsim zpusobem.

Cituji z emailu od Jakub Michn?k <jakub.michnik at centrum.cz>:

> pelt. clanek ma na vrchu kovovou desku ne? btw co je to za diodu? naky
> luxeon ci co?
>
> Petr Seliger napsal(a):
> > By se tam mohla dat kaptonova paska. Potrebnou sirku by mohli mit v
> > www.wlchemco.cz nebo to odizolovat peltierovym clankem. Kdyz se ta dioda
> > vychladi tak vyrazne zvysi svetelny tok :)
> >
> >
> >> thx za tip,
> >> mam to pod tu 1W ledku, zjistil jsem ze potrebuje zatracene velky 
> >> pasivni
>
> >> chladic a kdyz ji spinam proti +5V a gnd ma na chladici tak bych mel na
> >> 10MHz ze zebrovanyho chladice asi docela slusnou rusicku:-)
> >> wacx
> >> ----- Original Message ----- 
> >> From: "Jakub Michn?k" <jakub.michnik at centrum.cz>
> >> To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
> >> Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 2:41 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [Ronja] (no subject)
> >>
> >>
> >>


_______________________________________________
Ronja mailing list
Ronja at lists.pointless.net
http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja 



From quintusmurray at yahoo.com  Mon Apr 10 23:11:58 2006
From: quintusmurray at yahoo.com (Quintus Murray)
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 15:11:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Ronja] Ronja Digest, Vol 36, Issue 6
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1144666800.24201.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
Message-ID: <20060410221159.69812.qmail@web53411.mail.yahoo.com>



well you can use  ultrawideband/UWB chipsets and devices instead of VFIR chips and devices for even higher speed ronjas.

		
---------------------------------
Blab-away for as little as 1?/min. Make  PC-to-Phone Calls using Yahoo! Messenger with Voice.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20060410/23edcb90/attachment.html 

From chowwaileong at yahoo.com  Tue Apr 11 05:06:38 2006
From: chowwaileong at yahoo.com (waileong chow)
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 21:06:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Ronja] how to determind digital or analog circuit?
Message-ID: <20060411040638.45488.qmail@web50607.mail.yahoo.com>

may i know is transceiver is sending digital or analog signal? i attach the circuit below. thanks..
		
---------------------------------
New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20060410/28d0f0ac/attachment-0001.html 
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: transmitter circuit.doc
Type: application/msword
Size: 32256 bytes
Desc: 1510000982-transmitter circuit.doc
Url : http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20060410/28d0f0ac/attachment-0001.doc 

From asteri_x at freemail.hu  Tue Apr 11 09:27:09 2006
From: asteri_x at freemail.hu (Martin)
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 10:27:09 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] how to determind digital or analog circuit?
In-Reply-To: <20060411040638.45488.qmail@web50607.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20060411040638.45488.qmail@web50607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <443B685D.8040505@freemail.hu>

waileong chow ?rta:
> may i know is transceiver is sending digital or analog signal? i attach 
> the circuit below. thanks..
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC 
> <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail_us/taglines/postman5/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=39666/*http://beta.messenger.yahoo.com> 
> and save big.
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja

The 555 is generating a pulsewidth modulated (PWM) binary signal.

Then the receiver is only amplifying and low pass filtering it. Then you 
get the original analog signal.

Seems to be a nice toy to play with.

Bye,
Martin



From clock at twibright.com  Tue Apr 11 11:02:04 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 12:02:04 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <002301c65ce3$f5b29190$0201a8c0@wacxnote>
References: <1144690647.443a97d767bc9@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
	<002301c65ce3$f5b29190$0201a8c0@wacxnote>
Message-ID: <20060411100204.GE1829@kestrel.barix.local>

On Mon, Apr 10, 2006 at 11:15:57PM +0200, WaCX wrote:
> njn, netvrdim ze je to nejlepsi reseni, ja nejsem zadnej guru a tohle je jen 
> experiment, ale co kdyby to fungovalo?:-)

Takhle jsem se snazil hackovat pocitacovou hru "Tehlicky" na pocitaci
PP01 s MHB8080 kdyz jsem byl na zakladni skole a muzu rict ze tento
pristup nefunguje.

Prijde mi mrhani casem jak vzdycky 10 lidi zacne vytvaret variace na
tema "jak neporadne navrhnout nejakou modifikaci Ronji" a pak se
dokodrcam k tomu abych neco uvolnil a prace tehle lidi je splachnuta
do kanalu. Jako treba s Twisterem nebo Nebulusem. To bylo nechodicich a
polochodicich modifikaci TP interfacu a spousta modifikaci Ronja
vysilace na infra s nespravne buzenou infra LEDkou.

Ja razim heslo "lepsi 1 ostra sekera nez 20 tupejch". O platnosti
tohoto hesla jsem se presvedcil na chate pri stipani drivi.

Kdyby tihle lidi misto toho oscanovali webovou stranku na HTML bugy,
precetli texty jestli neobsahuji nesmysly, jestli nejsou v popisu
postupu mezery nebo neco prelozili, tak si myslim ze by projektu Ronja
pomohli vic nez kdyby se stourali do elektroniky aniz by zcela
porozumeli tomu, jak to funguje. Dalsi rozdil by byl ze by byli uvedeni
v credits.

V Tracu je taky spousta bugreportu ale nejsem si jist kolik z nich je
vhodnych pro zpracovani nezasvecenou osobou.

CL<
> wacx
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Petr Seliger" <seligr at sh.cvut.cz>
> To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
> Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 7:37 PM
> Subject: Re: [Ronja] (no subject)
> 
> 
> Ty z gme maj bily desky z elektricky nevodiveho korundu Al2O3. Naopak 
> tepelnou
> vodivost ma velmi dobrou a je to na tom peltieru prakticky nejdrazsi 
> soucast.
> 
> Diodu tam ma borec asi Luxeon z gm. Asi typ ND98. Ale budi to soude podle 
> popisu
> druhym nejblbejsim zpusobem.
> 
> Cituji z emailu od Jakub Michn?k <jakub.michnik at centrum.cz>:
> 
> > pelt. clanek ma na vrchu kovovou desku ne? btw co je to za diodu? naky
> > luxeon ci co?
> >
> > Petr Seliger napsal(a):
> > > By se tam mohla dat kaptonova paska. Potrebnou sirku by mohli mit v
> > > www.wlchemco.cz nebo to odizolovat peltierovym clankem. Kdyz se ta dioda
> > > vychladi tak vyrazne zvysi svetelny tok :)
> > >
> > >
> > >> thx za tip,
> > >> mam to pod tu 1W ledku, zjistil jsem ze potrebuje zatracene velky 
> > >> pasivni
> >
> > >> chladic a kdyz ji spinam proti +5V a gnd ma na chladici tak bych mel na
> > >> 10MHz ze zebrovanyho chladice asi docela slusnou rusicku:-)
> > >> wacx
> > >> ----- Original Message ----- 
> > >> From: "Jakub Michn?k" <jakub.michnik at centrum.cz>
> > >> To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
> > >> Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 2:41 PM
> > >> Subject: Re: [Ronja] (no subject)
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From clock at twibright.com  Tue Apr 11 11:03:01 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 12:03:01 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Ronja Digest, Vol 36, Issue 6
In-Reply-To: <20060410221159.69812.qmail@web53411.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.1.1144666800.24201.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
	<20060410221159.69812.qmail@web53411.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20060411100301.GF1829@kestrel.barix.local>

On Mon, Apr 10, 2006 at 03:11:58PM -0700, Quintus Murray wrote:
> 
> 
> well you can use  ultrawideband/UWB chipsets and devices instead of
> VFIR chips and devices for even higher speed ronjas.

Any suggested chips that are cheap, easy to get, in production, have
a public datasheet and are not buggy?

CL<


From quintusmurray at yahoo.com  Tue Apr 11 18:06:08 2006
From: quintusmurray at yahoo.com (Quintus Murray)
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 10:06:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Ronja] Ronja Digest, Vol 36, Issue 9
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1144753200.21278.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
Message-ID: <20060411170608.66275.qmail@web53415.mail.yahoo.com>

try freescale for UWB chipsets plus if they are expensive lets all donate money to pay for them

ronja-request at lists.pointless.net wrote:  Send Ronja mailing list submissions to
ronja at lists.pointless.net

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
ronja-request at lists.pointless.net

You can reach the person managing the list at
ronja-owner at lists.pointless.net

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Ronja digest..."


Today's Topics:

1. Re: how to determind digital or analog circuit? (Martin)
2. Re: (no subject) (Karel Kulhavy)
3. Re: Ronja Digest, Vol 36, Issue 6 (Karel Kulhavy)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 10:27:09 +0200
From: Martin 
Subject: Re: [Ronja] how to determind digital or analog circuit?
To: Twibright Ronja 
Message-ID: <443B685D.8040505 at freemail.hu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed

waileong chow ?rta:
> may i know is transceiver is sending digital or analog signal? i attach 
> the circuit below. thanks..
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC 
> 
> and save big.
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja

The 555 is generating a pulsewidth modulated (PWM) binary signal.

Then the receiver is only amplifying and low pass filtering it. Then you 
get the original analog signal.

Seems to be a nice toy to play with.

Bye,
Martin




------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 12:02:04 +0200
From: Karel Kulhavy 
Subject: Re: [Ronja] (no subject)
To: Twibright Ronja 
Message-ID: <20060411100204.GE1829 at kestrel.barix.local>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

On Mon, Apr 10, 2006 at 11:15:57PM +0200, WaCX wrote:
> njn, netvrdim ze je to nejlepsi reseni, ja nejsem zadnej guru a tohle je jen 
> experiment, ale co kdyby to fungovalo?:-)

Takhle jsem se snazil hackovat pocitacovou hru "Tehlicky" na pocitaci
PP01 s MHB8080 kdyz jsem byl na zakladni skole a muzu rict ze tento
pristup nefunguje.

Prijde mi mrhani casem jak vzdycky 10 lidi zacne vytvaret variace na
tema "jak neporadne navrhnout nejakou modifikaci Ronji" a pak se
dokodrcam k tomu abych neco uvolnil a prace tehle lidi je splachnuta
do kanalu. Jako treba s Twisterem nebo Nebulusem. To bylo nechodicich a
polochodicich modifikaci TP interfacu a spousta modifikaci Ronja
vysilace na infra s nespravne buzenou infra LEDkou.

Ja razim heslo "lepsi 1 ostra sekera nez 20 tupejch". O platnosti
tohoto hesla jsem se presvedcil na chate pri stipani drivi.

Kdyby tihle lidi misto toho oscanovali webovou stranku na HTML bugy,
precetli texty jestli neobsahuji nesmysly, jestli nejsou v popisu
postupu mezery nebo neco prelozili, tak si myslim ze by projektu Ronja
pomohli vic nez kdyby se stourali do elektroniky aniz by zcela
porozumeli tomu, jak to funguje. Dalsi rozdil by byl ze by byli uvedeni
v credits.

V Tracu je taky spousta bugreportu ale nejsem si jist kolik z nich je
vhodnych pro zpracovani nezasvecenou osobou.

CL<
> wacx
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Petr Seliger" 
> To: "Twibright Ronja" 
> Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 7:37 PM
> Subject: Re: [Ronja] (no subject)
> 
> 
> Ty z gme maj bily desky z elektricky nevodiveho korundu Al2O3. Naopak 
> tepelnou
> vodivost ma velmi dobrou a je to na tom peltieru prakticky nejdrazsi 
> soucast.
> 
> Diodu tam ma borec asi Luxeon z gm. Asi typ ND98. Ale budi to soude podle 
> popisu
> druhym nejblbejsim zpusobem.
> 
> Cituji z emailu od Jakub Michn?k :
> 
> > pelt. clanek ma na vrchu kovovou desku ne? btw co je to za diodu? naky
> > luxeon ci co?
> >
> > Petr Seliger napsal(a):
> > > By se tam mohla dat kaptonova paska. Potrebnou sirku by mohli mit v
> > > www.wlchemco.cz nebo to odizolovat peltierovym clankem. Kdyz se ta dioda
> > > vychladi tak vyrazne zvysi svetelny tok :)
> > >
> > >
> > >> thx za tip,
> > >> mam to pod tu 1W ledku, zjistil jsem ze potrebuje zatracene velky 
> > >> pasivni
> >
> > >> chladic a kdyz ji spinam proti +5V a gnd ma na chladici tak bych mel na
> > >> 10MHz ze zebrovanyho chladice asi docela slusnou rusicku:-)
> > >> wacx
> > >> ----- Original Message ----- 
> > >> From: "Jakub Michn?k" 
> > >> To: "Twibright Ronja" 
> > >> Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 2:41 PM
> > >> Subject: Re: [Ronja] (no subject)
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja



------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 12:03:01 +0200
From: Karel Kulhavy 
Subject: Re: [Ronja] Ronja Digest, Vol 36, Issue 6
To: Twibright Ronja 
Message-ID: <20060411100301.GF1829 at kestrel.barix.local>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

On Mon, Apr 10, 2006 at 03:11:58PM -0700, Quintus Murray wrote:
> 
> 
> well you can use ultrawideband/UWB chipsets and devices instead of
> VFIR chips and devices for even higher speed ronjas.

Any suggested chips that are cheap, easy to get, in production, have
a public datasheet and are not buggy?

CL<



------------------------------

_______________________________________________
Ronja mailing list
Ronja at lists.pointless.net
http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


End of Ronja Digest, Vol 36, Issue 9
************************************


		
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2?/min or less.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20060411/51560e86/attachment.html 

From chowwaileong at yahoo.com  Wed Apr 12 06:01:42 2006
From: chowwaileong at yahoo.com (waileong chow)
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 22:01:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Ronja] how to determind digital or analog circuit?
In-Reply-To: <20060411040638.45488.qmail@web50607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20060412050142.31571.qmail@web50612.mail.yahoo.com>

may i know is it all the 555 base circuit consider digital?
  

waileong chow <chowwaileong at yahoo.com> wrote:
  may i know is transceiver is sending digital or analog signal? i attach the circuit below. thanks..    
---------------------------------
  New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big._______________________________________________
Ronja mailing list
Ronja at lists.pointless.net
http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


		
---------------------------------
Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls.  Great rates starting at 1&cent;/min.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20060411/607487e8/attachment.html 

From chowwaileong at yahoo.com  Wed Apr 12 06:02:38 2006
From: chowwaileong at yahoo.com (waileong chow)
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 22:02:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Ronja] how to determind digital or analog circuit?
In-Reply-To: <20060411040638.45488.qmail@web50607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20060412050238.24826.qmail@web50607.mail.yahoo.com>

may i know is it all the 555 base circuit consider digital?
  how am i going to measure the bit error rate for my transceiver?

waileong chow <chowwaileong at yahoo.com> wrote:
  may i know is transceiver is sending digital or analog signal? i attach the circuit below. thanks..     
---------------------------------
  New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big._______________________________________________
Ronja mailing list
Ronja at lists.pointless.net
http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja



		
---------------------------------
Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls.  Great rates starting at 1&cent;/min.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20060411/908faa13/attachment.html 

From Thomas.Kalka at googlemail.com  Wed Apr 12 07:32:52 2006
From: Thomas.Kalka at googlemail.com (Thomas Kalka)
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 08:32:52 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] how to determind digital or analog circuit?
In-Reply-To: <20060412050238.24826.qmail@web50607.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20060412050238.24826.qmail@web50607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <443C9F14.6000709@googlemail.com>

no, its a kind of pwm, analog transmission
there is no bit error rate, just noise




From clock at twibright.com  Wed Apr 12 10:52:12 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 11:52:12 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Ronja Digest, Vol 36, Issue 9
In-Reply-To: <20060411170608.66275.qmail@web53415.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.1.1144753200.21278.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
	<20060411170608.66275.qmail@web53415.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20060412095212.GD21214@kestrel.barix.local>

On Tue, Apr 11, 2006 at 10:06:08AM -0700, Quintus Murray wrote:
> try freescale for UWB chipsets plus if they are expensive lets all
> donate money to pay for them

Expensive parts are a problem for the users. Donating money for
covering development samples doesn't help users with the price
of the part at all.

CL<
> 
> ronja-request at lists.pointless.net wrote:  Send Ronja mailing list submissions to
> ronja at lists.pointless.net
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> ronja-request at lists.pointless.net
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> ronja-owner at lists.pointless.net
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Ronja digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
> 1. Re: how to determind digital or analog circuit? (Martin)
> 2. Re: (no subject) (Karel Kulhavy)
> 3. Re: Ronja Digest, Vol 36, Issue 6 (Karel Kulhavy)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 10:27:09 +0200
> From: Martin 
> Subject: Re: [Ronja] how to determind digital or analog circuit?
> To: Twibright Ronja 
> Message-ID: <443B685D.8040505 at freemail.hu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
> 
> waileong chow ?rta:
> > may i know is transceiver is sending digital or analog signal? i attach 
> > the circuit below. thanks..
> > 
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC 
> > 
> > and save big.
> > 
> > 
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ronja mailing list
> > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 
> The 555 is generating a pulsewidth modulated (PWM) binary signal.
> 
> Then the receiver is only amplifying and low pass filtering it. Then you 
> get the original analog signal.
> 
> Seems to be a nice toy to play with.
> 
> Bye,
> Martin
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 12:02:04 +0200
> From: Karel Kulhavy 
> Subject: Re: [Ronja] (no subject)
> To: Twibright Ronja 
> Message-ID: <20060411100204.GE1829 at kestrel.barix.local>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> 
> On Mon, Apr 10, 2006 at 11:15:57PM +0200, WaCX wrote:
> > njn, netvrdim ze je to nejlepsi reseni, ja nejsem zadnej guru a tohle je jen 
> > experiment, ale co kdyby to fungovalo?:-)
> 
> Takhle jsem se snazil hackovat pocitacovou hru "Tehlicky" na pocitaci
> PP01 s MHB8080 kdyz jsem byl na zakladni skole a muzu rict ze tento
> pristup nefunguje.
> 
> Prijde mi mrhani casem jak vzdycky 10 lidi zacne vytvaret variace na
> tema "jak neporadne navrhnout nejakou modifikaci Ronji" a pak se
> dokodrcam k tomu abych neco uvolnil a prace tehle lidi je splachnuta
> do kanalu. Jako treba s Twisterem nebo Nebulusem. To bylo nechodicich a
> polochodicich modifikaci TP interfacu a spousta modifikaci Ronja
> vysilace na infra s nespravne buzenou infra LEDkou.
> 
> Ja razim heslo "lepsi 1 ostra sekera nez 20 tupejch". O platnosti
> tohoto hesla jsem se presvedcil na chate pri stipani drivi.
> 
> Kdyby tihle lidi misto toho oscanovali webovou stranku na HTML bugy,
> precetli texty jestli neobsahuji nesmysly, jestli nejsou v popisu
> postupu mezery nebo neco prelozili, tak si myslim ze by projektu Ronja
> pomohli vic nez kdyby se stourali do elektroniky aniz by zcela
> porozumeli tomu, jak to funguje. Dalsi rozdil by byl ze by byli uvedeni
> v credits.
> 
> V Tracu je taky spousta bugreportu ale nejsem si jist kolik z nich je
> vhodnych pro zpracovani nezasvecenou osobou.
> 
> CL<
> > wacx
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Petr Seliger" 
> > To: "Twibright Ronja" 
> > Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 7:37 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Ronja] (no subject)
> > 
> > 
> > Ty z gme maj bily desky z elektricky nevodiveho korundu Al2O3. Naopak 
> > tepelnou
> > vodivost ma velmi dobrou a je to na tom peltieru prakticky nejdrazsi 
> > soucast.
> > 
> > Diodu tam ma borec asi Luxeon z gm. Asi typ ND98. Ale budi to soude podle 
> > popisu
> > druhym nejblbejsim zpusobem.
> > 
> > Cituji z emailu od Jakub Michn?k :
> > 
> > > pelt. clanek ma na vrchu kovovou desku ne? btw co je to za diodu? naky
> > > luxeon ci co?
> > >
> > > Petr Seliger napsal(a):
> > > > By se tam mohla dat kaptonova paska. Potrebnou sirku by mohli mit v
> > > > www.wlchemco.cz nebo to odizolovat peltierovym clankem. Kdyz se ta dioda
> > > > vychladi tak vyrazne zvysi svetelny tok :)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> thx za tip,
> > > >> mam to pod tu 1W ledku, zjistil jsem ze potrebuje zatracene velky 
> > > >> pasivni
> > >
> > > >> chladic a kdyz ji spinam proti +5V a gnd ma na chladici tak bych mel na
> > > >> 10MHz ze zebrovanyho chladice asi docela slusnou rusicku:-)
> > > >> wacx
> > > >> ----- Original Message ----- 
> > > >> From: "Jakub Michn?k" 
> > > >> To: "Twibright Ronja" 
> > > >> Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 2:41 PM
> > > >> Subject: Re: [Ronja] (no subject)
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ronja mailing list
> > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ronja mailing list
> > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 12:03:01 +0200
> From: Karel Kulhavy 
> Subject: Re: [Ronja] Ronja Digest, Vol 36, Issue 6
> To: Twibright Ronja 
> Message-ID: <20060411100301.GF1829 at kestrel.barix.local>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> 
> On Mon, Apr 10, 2006 at 03:11:58PM -0700, Quintus Murray wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > well you can use ultrawideband/UWB chipsets and devices instead of
> > VFIR chips and devices for even higher speed ronjas.
> 
> Any suggested chips that are cheap, easy to get, in production, have
> a public datasheet and are not buggy?
> 
> CL<
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 
> 
> End of Ronja Digest, Vol 36, Issue 9
> ************************************
> 
> 
> 		
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2?/min or less.
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja



From Funky at seznam.cz  Wed Apr 12 11:48:47 2006
From: Funky at seznam.cz (Funky)
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 12:48:47 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Ronja] nefunkcni RX
Message-ID: <7849.14289-6838-41390037-1144838927@seznam.cz>

zdravim, 

nefunguje mi RX u ronji tetrapolis, testpointy jsou v priloze, muzete nekdo poradit co s tim ?
Je to postavene podle navodu.
diky,Jindra
------------- dal?? ??st ---------------
Netextov? p??loha byla odstran?na...
Jm?no: ronja_testpointy.xls
Typ: application/vnd.ms-excel
Velikost: 22528 bytes
Popis: [??dn? popis nen? k dispozici]
Url : http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20060412/529af690/attachment-0001.xls 

From clock at twibright.com  Wed Apr 12 14:05:28 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 15:05:28 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] nefunkcni RX
In-Reply-To: <7849.14289-6838-41390037-1144838927@seznam.cz>
References: <7849.14289-6838-41390037-1144838927@seznam.cz>
Message-ID: <20060412130528.GA24350@kestrel.barix.local>

On Wed, Apr 12, 2006 at 12:48:47PM +0200, Funky wrote:
> zdravim, 
> 
> nefunguje mi RX u ronji tetrapolis, testpointy jsou v priloze, muzete
> nekdo poradit co s tim ?  Je to postavene podle navodu.

S timahle hodnotama by to melo chodit. Posli fotku.

CL<
> diky,Jindra


> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja



From Funky at seznam.cz  Wed Apr 12 15:14:04 2006
From: Funky at seznam.cz (Funky)
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 16:14:04 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Ronja] nefunkcni RX
In-Reply-To: <20060412130528.GA24350@kestrel.barix.local>
Message-ID: <7839.14278-25371-1939356603-1144851244@seznam.cz>

Fotky jsou na http://funky.vserver.cz/RX

Obe RX jsem delal soucasne, jedno funguje a druhe ne..
Misto koaxu je tam UTP dlouhe cca 50cm
Je mozne ze by to bylo nejakym studenym spojem ?

zdar
Jindra
>  ------------ P?vodn? zpr?va ------------
>  Od: Karel Kulhavy <clock na twibright.com>
>  P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] nefunkcni RX
>  Datum: 12.4.2006 15:06:24
>  ----------------------------------------
>  On Wed, Apr 12, 2006 at 12:48:47PM +0200, Funky wrote:
>  > zdravim, 
>  > 
>  > nefunguje mi RX u ronji tetrapolis, testpointy jsou v priloze, muzete
>  > nekdo poradit co s tim ?  Je to postavene podle navodu.
>  
>  S timahle hodnotama by to melo chodit. Posli fotku.
>  
>  CL<
>  > diky,Jindra
>  
>  
>  > _______________________________________________
>  > Ronja mailing list
>  > Ronja na lists.pointless.net
>  > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>  
>  
>  _______________________________________________
>  Ronja mailing list
>  Ronja na lists.pointless.net
>  http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>  
>  
>  


From kendy at hkfree.org  Wed Apr 12 16:57:48 2006
From: kendy at hkfree.org (Kendy)
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 17:57:48 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] nefunkcni RX
In-Reply-To: <7839.14278-25371-1939356603-1144851244@seznam.cz>
References: <7839.14278-25371-1939356603-1144851244@seznam.cz>
Message-ID: <443D237C.1070103@hkfree.org>

Na prvni pohled vidim moc dlouhe nohy u vstupu. S tim sem mel dost 
problemy. Pak sem zacal pajet co nejkratsi, a ty nejkratsi makaji super.



Funky napsal(a):

> Fotky jsou na http://funky.vserver.cz/RX
> 
> Obe RX jsem delal soucasne, jedno funguje a druhe ne..
> Misto koaxu je tam UTP dlouhe cca 50cm
> Je mozne ze by to bylo nejakym studenym spojem ?
> 
> zdar
> Jindra
> 
>> ------------ P?vodn? zpr?va ------------
>> Od: Karel Kulhavy <clock na twibright.com>
>> P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] nefunkcni RX
>> Datum: 12.4.2006 15:06:24
>> ----------------------------------------
>> On Wed, Apr 12, 2006 at 12:48:47PM +0200, Funky wrote:
>> > zdravim, 
>> > 
>> > nefunguje mi RX u ronji tetrapolis, testpointy jsou v priloze, muzete
>> > nekdo poradit co s tim ?  Je to postavene podle navodu.
>> 
>> S timahle hodnotama by to melo chodit. Posli fotku.
>> 
>> CL<
>> > diky,Jindra
>> 
>> 
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Ronja mailing list
>> > Ronja na lists.pointless.net
>> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ronja mailing list
>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 


From clock at twibright.com  Wed Apr 12 18:20:44 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 19:20:44 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] nefunkcni RX
In-Reply-To: <7839.14278-25371-1939356603-1144851244@seznam.cz>
References: <20060412130528.GA24350@kestrel.barix.local>
	<7839.14278-25371-1939356603-1144851244@seznam.cz>
Message-ID: <20060412172044.GB26935@kestrel.barix.local>

On Wed, Apr 12, 2006 at 04:14:04PM +0200, Funky wrote:
> Fotky jsou na http://funky.vserver.cz/RX
> 
> Obe RX jsem delal soucasne, jedno funguje a druhe ne..
> Misto koaxu je tam UTP dlouhe cca 50cm
> Je mozne ze by to bylo nejakym studenym spojem ?

Jo je. Nebo chybnym zapojenim - provedl jsi kontrolu spravnosti
po letovani?

Jinak to UTP tam nepatri. Ma tam byt koax. Jestli se muze
stat ze kvuli UTP jeden kus funguje a druhy ne to nevim.
Prijde mi to ale celkem nepravdepodobne.

CL<

> 
> zdar
> Jindra
> >  ------------ P?vodn? zpr?va ------------
> >  Od: Karel Kulhavy <clock at twibright.com>
> >  P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] nefunkcni RX
> >  Datum: 12.4.2006 15:06:24
> >  ----------------------------------------
> >  On Wed, Apr 12, 2006 at 12:48:47PM +0200, Funky wrote:
> >  > zdravim, 
> >  > 
> >  > nefunguje mi RX u ronji tetrapolis, testpointy jsou v priloze, muzete
> >  > nekdo poradit co s tim ?  Je to postavene podle navodu.
> >  
> >  S timahle hodnotama by to melo chodit. Posli fotku.
> >  
> >  CL<
> >  > diky,Jindra
> >  
> >  
> >  > _______________________________________________
> >  > Ronja mailing list
> >  > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> >  > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> >  
> >  
> >  _______________________________________________
> >  Ronja mailing list
> >  Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> >  http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> >  
> >  
> >  
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From seligr at sh.cvut.cz  Wed Apr 12 18:52:52 2006
From: seligr at sh.cvut.cz (Petr Seliger)
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 19:52:52 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] nefunkcni RX
In-Reply-To: <443D237C.1070103@hkfree.org>
References: <7839.14278-25371-1939356603-1144851244@seznam.cz>
	<443D237C.1070103@hkfree.org>
Message-ID: <1144864372.443d3e7432a6c@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>

Presne tak. Me se nezda to rssi, tam muzou byt maximalne desitky mV.
Jeste bych zastrcil fotodiodu hloub do krabicky aby couhal jen vrchlik. Vetsinou
to pomuze.

> Na prvni pohled vidim moc dlouhe nohy u vstupu. S tim sem mel dost 
> problemy. Pak sem zacal pajet co nejkratsi, a ty nejkratsi makaji super.
> 
> 
> 
> Funky napsal(a):
> 
> > Fotky jsou na http://funky.vserver.cz/RX
> > 
> > Obe RX jsem delal soucasne, jedno funguje a druhe ne..
> > Misto koaxu je tam UTP dlouhe cca 50cm
> > Je mozne ze by to bylo nejakym studenym spojem ?
> > 
> > zdar
> > Jindra
> > 
> >> ------------ P?vodn? zpr?va ------------
> >> Od: Karel Kulhavy <clock at twibright.com>
> >> P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] nefunkcni RX
> >> Datum: 12.4.2006 15:06:24
> >> ----------------------------------------
> >> On Wed, Apr 12, 2006 at 12:48:47PM +0200, Funky wrote:
> >> > zdravim, 
> >> > 
> >> > nefunguje mi RX u ronji tetrapolis, testpointy jsou v priloze, muzete
> >> > nekdo poradit co s tim ?  Je to postavene podle navodu.
> >> 
> >> S timahle hodnotama by to melo chodit. Posli fotku.
> >> 
> >> CL<
> >> > diky,Jindra
> >> 
> >> 
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Ronja mailing list
> >> > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> >> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> >> 
> >> 
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Ronja mailing list
> >> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> >> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ronja mailing list
> > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> > 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 





From arunk at speedpost.net  Thu Apr 13 05:08:50 2006
From: arunk at speedpost.net (Arun Krishnan)
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 09:38:50 +0530
Subject: [Ronja] Weird TX Behaviour
Message-ID: <1144901330.1440.258994040@webmail.messagingengine.com>

Hi,

I constructed the PCBs for all the modules of RONJA Tetrapolis and have
this problem. My TX LED burns even if the cable from Twister is
unplugged. Is this normal? If not, what could be causing this?

Thanks,
Arun


From clock at twibright.com  Thu Apr 13 16:39:01 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 17:39:01 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] nefunkcni RX
In-Reply-To: <443D237C.1070103@hkfree.org>
References: <7839.14278-25371-1939356603-1144851244@seznam.cz>
	<443D237C.1070103@hkfree.org>
Message-ID: <20060413153901.GA16699@kestrel.barix.local>

On Wed, Apr 12, 2006 at 05:57:48PM +0200, Kendy wrote:
> Na prvni pohled vidim moc dlouhe nohy u vstupu. S tim sem mel dost 
> problemy. Pak sem zacal pajet co nejkratsi, a ty nejkratsi makaji super.

Kde presne u vstupu? Myslis u RX diody?

CL<
> 
> 
> 
> Funky napsal(a):
> 
> > Fotky jsou na http://funky.vserver.cz/RX
> > 
> > Obe RX jsem delal soucasne, jedno funguje a druhe ne..
> > Misto koaxu je tam UTP dlouhe cca 50cm
> > Je mozne ze by to bylo nejakym studenym spojem ?
> > 
> > zdar
> > Jindra
> > 
> >> ------------ P?vodn? zpr?va ------------
> >> Od: Karel Kulhavy <clock at twibright.com>
> >> P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] nefunkcni RX
> >> Datum: 12.4.2006 15:06:24
> >> ----------------------------------------
> >> On Wed, Apr 12, 2006 at 12:48:47PM +0200, Funky wrote:
> >> > zdravim, 
> >> > 
> >> > nefunguje mi RX u ronji tetrapolis, testpointy jsou v priloze, muzete
> >> > nekdo poradit co s tim ?  Je to postavene podle navodu.
> >> 
> >> S timahle hodnotama by to melo chodit. Posli fotku.
> >> 
> >> CL<
> >> > diky,Jindra
> >> 
> >> 
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Ronja mailing list
> >> > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> >> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> >> 
> >> 
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Ronja mailing list
> >> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> >> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ronja mailing list
> > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> > 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From clock at twibright.com  Thu Apr 13 16:44:42 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 17:44:42 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Weird TX Behaviour
In-Reply-To: <1144901330.1440.258994040@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <1144901330.1440.258994040@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <20060413154442.GB16743@kestrel.barix.local>

On Thu, Apr 13, 2006 at 09:38:50AM +0530, Arun Krishnan wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I constructed the PCBs for all the modules of RONJA Tetrapolis and have
> this problem. My TX LED burns even if the cable from Twister is

Burns or shines? If it burns then the resistor in series with the
diode is shorted out. If just shines a lot then the TX is oscillating.
Do you have official Ronja TX or some unofficial PCB's?

CL<
> unplugged. Is this normal? If not, what could be causing this?
> 
> Thanks,
> Arun
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From antitron at web.de  Thu Apr 13 19:01:16 2006
From: antitron at web.de (Thomas Egenhofer)
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 20:01:16 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] another IR chip
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1144926001.15740.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
References: <mailman.1.1144926001.15740.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
Message-ID: <1144951276.5521.22.camel@localhost.localdomain>

i already thought about the usage of an RS232<->ir adapter with external
diodes. i thought there wasn't something like this but here it is.
http://www.maxim-ic.com/quick_view2.cfm/qv_pk/1947

i havent tested the part since i dont own one(havent found a reseller
but i'm trying to get 2 as samples).they do look intresting.
a max. of 200mA current to drive the transmitter led is quite nice.
seems to have everything inside. 115kbps aren't that much but its more
than a normal modem would bring. after all the whole system would be
extremly cheap and easy to build. only a hand full of parts are
required. in the worst case a receiver-amp could be neccessary but it
should be fine.
despite the fact that it's slow it still might be good because it is
extremply simple and cheap-if lot of bandwith isn't required.

thoughts and comments are welcome.

greetings
thommy e

ps:no i'm neither a maxim reseller nor is this advertise for maxim ;)



From seligr at sh.cvut.cz  Thu Apr 13 21:20:23 2006
From: seligr at sh.cvut.cz (Petr Seliger)
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 22:20:23 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] nefunkcni RX
In-Reply-To: <20060413153901.GA16699@kestrel.barix.local>
References: <7839.14278-25371-1939356603-1144851244@seznam.cz>
	<443D237C.1070103@hkfree.org>
	<20060413153901.GA16699@kestrel.barix.local>
Message-ID: <1144959623.443eb287a8a6c@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>

Cituji z emailu od Karel Kulhavy <clock at twibright.com>:

> On Wed, Apr 12, 2006 at 05:57:48PM +0200, Kendy wrote:
> > Na prvni pohled vidim moc dlouhe nohy u vstupu. S tim sem mel dost 
> > problemy. Pak sem zacal pajet co nejkratsi, a ty nejkratsi makaji super.
> 
> Kde presne u vstupu? Myslis u RX diody?

Jo, vsechno co visi na nozickach G1 a G2 vstupniho MOSFETu.
 
> CL<
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Funky napsal(a):
> > 
> > > Fotky jsou na http://funky.vserver.cz/RX
> > > 
> > > Obe RX jsem delal soucasne, jedno funguje a druhe ne..
> > > Misto koaxu je tam UTP dlouhe cca 50cm
> > > Je mozne ze by to bylo nejakym studenym spojem ?
> > > 
> > > zdar
> > > Jindra
> > > 
> > >> ------------ P?vodn? zpr?va ------------
> > >> Od: Karel Kulhavy <clock at twibright.com>
> > >> P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] nefunkcni RX
> > >> Datum: 12.4.2006 15:06:24
> > >> ----------------------------------------
> > >> On Wed, Apr 12, 2006 at 12:48:47PM +0200, Funky wrote:
> > >> > zdravim, 
> > >> > 
> > >> > nefunguje mi RX u ronji tetrapolis, testpointy jsou v priloze,
> muzete
> > >> > nekdo poradit co s tim ?  Je to postavene podle navodu.
> > >> 
> > >> S timahle hodnotama by to melo chodit. Posli fotku.
> > >> 
> > >> CL<
> > >> > diky,Jindra



From arunk at speedpost.net  Fri Apr 14 03:34:16 2006
From: arunk at speedpost.net (Arun Krishnan)
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 08:04:16 +0530
Subject: [Ronja] Weird TX Behaviour
In-Reply-To: <20060413154442.GB16743@kestrel.barix.local>
References: <1144901330.1440.258994040@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<20060413154442.GB16743@kestrel.barix.local>
Message-ID: <1144982056.26972.259072957@webmail.messagingengine.com>

Hi,

>Burns or shines? If it burns then the resistor in series with the
>diode is shorted out. If just shines a lot then the TX is oscillating.
>Do you have official Ronja TX or some unofficial PCB's?

Shines. I have Seligr's PCB.

The really weird thing is that the second TX PCB works properly (as far
as proper behaviour is concerned - I haven't tested this with actual
data yet) with the same ICs.

Thanks,
Arun

----- Original message -----
From: "Karel Kulhavy" <clock at twibright.com>
To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 17:44:42 +0200
Subject: Re: [Ronja] Weird TX Behaviour

On Thu, Apr 13, 2006 at 09:38:50AM +0530, Arun Krishnan wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I constructed the PCBs for all the modules of RONJA Tetrapolis and have
> this problem. My TX LED burns even if the cable from Twister is

Burns or shines? If it burns then the resistor in series with the
diode is shorted out. If just shines a lot then the TX is oscillating.
Do you have official Ronja TX or some unofficial PCB's?

CL<
> unplugged. Is this normal? If not, what could be causing this?
> 
> Thanks,
> Arun
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja

_______________________________________________
Ronja mailing list
Ronja at lists.pointless.net
http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From arunk at speedpost.net  Fri Apr 14 05:30:11 2006
From: arunk at speedpost.net (Arun Krishnan)
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 10:00:11 +0530
Subject: [Ronja] Fwd: Re:  Weird TX Behaviour
Message-ID: <1144989011.3449.259077085@webmail.messagingengine.com>

Hi,

I meant I have K.J.S' PCB. Sorry for the confusion.

Regards,
Arun


----- Original message -----
From: "Arun Krishnan" <arunk at speedpost.net>
To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 08:04:16 +0530
Subject: Re: [Ronja] Weird TX Behaviour

Hi,

>Burns or shines? If it burns then the resistor in series with the
>diode is shorted out. If just shines a lot then the TX is oscillating.
>Do you have official Ronja TX or some unofficial PCB's?

Shines. I have Seligr's PCB.

The really weird thing is that the second TX PCB works properly (as far
as proper behaviour is concerned - I haven't tested this with actual
data yet) with the same ICs.

Thanks,
Arun

----- Original message -----
From: "Karel Kulhavy" <clock at twibright.com>
To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 17:44:42 +0200
Subject: Re: [Ronja] Weird TX Behaviour

On Thu, Apr 13, 2006 at 09:38:50AM +0530, Arun Krishnan wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I constructed the PCBs for all the modules of RONJA Tetrapolis and have
> this problem. My TX LED burns even if the cable from Twister is

Burns or shines? If it burns then the resistor in series with the
diode is shorted out. If just shines a lot then the TX is oscillating.
Do you have official Ronja TX or some unofficial PCB's?

CL<
> unplugged. Is this normal? If not, what could be causing this?
> 
> Thanks,
> Arun
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja

_______________________________________________
Ronja mailing list
Ronja at lists.pointless.net
http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From seligr at sh.cvut.cz  Fri Apr 14 07:23:40 2006
From: seligr at sh.cvut.cz (Petr Seliger)
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 08:23:40 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Fwd: Re:  Weird TX Behaviour
In-Reply-To: <1144989011.3449.259077085@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <1144989011.3449.259077085@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <1144995820.443f3fec44242@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>

Ufff, check shortcircuits on PCB with ohmmeter. These boards form K.J.S.
themselves are incredible crap and solder often makes bridges between paths and
under SMD parts. Otherwise gnd thermal pads are to thin and can be interupted.

P. Seliger

> Hi,
> 
> I meant I have K.J.S' PCB. Sorry for the confusion.
> 
> Regards,
> Arun
> 
> 
> ----- Original message -----
> From: "Arun Krishnan" <arunk at speedpost.net>
> To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
> Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 08:04:16 +0530
> Subject: Re: [Ronja] Weird TX Behaviour
> 
> Hi,
> 
> >Burns or shines? If it burns then the resistor in series with the
> >diode is shorted out. If just shines a lot then the TX is oscillating.
> >Do you have official Ronja TX or some unofficial PCB's?
> 
> Shines. I have Seligr's PCB.
> 
> The really weird thing is that the second TX PCB works properly (as far
> as proper behaviour is concerned - I haven't tested this with actual
> data yet) with the same ICs.
> 
> Thanks,
> Arun
> 
> ----- Original message -----
> From: "Karel Kulhavy" <clock at twibright.com>
> To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
> Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 17:44:42 +0200
> Subject: Re: [Ronja] Weird TX Behaviour
> 
> On Thu, Apr 13, 2006 at 09:38:50AM +0530, Arun Krishnan wrote:
> > Hi,
> > 
> > I constructed the PCBs for all the modules of RONJA Tetrapolis and have
> > this problem. My TX LED burns even if the cable from Twister is
> 
> Burns or shines? If it burns then the resistor in series with the
> diode is shorted out. If just shines a lot then the TX is oscillating.
> Do you have official Ronja TX or some unofficial PCB's?
> 
> CL<
> > unplugged. Is this normal? If not, what could be causing this?
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > Arun
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ronja mailing list
> > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 





From arunk at speedpost.net  Fri Apr 14 08:09:30 2006
From: arunk at speedpost.net (Arun Krishnan)
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 12:39:30 +0530
Subject: [Ronja] Fwd: Re:  Weird TX Behaviour
In-Reply-To: <1144995820.443f3fec44242@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
References: <1144989011.3449.259077085@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<1144995820.443f3fec44242@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
Message-ID: <1144998570.24035.259081565@webmail.messagingengine.com>

Hi,

Thanks for the reply. I'm using the discrete versions of these PCBs as
SMDs are too expensive here (~4USD for a single SMD cap? No way!). I'll
check the board.

With Best Regards,
Arun


----- Original message -----
From: "Petr Seliger" <seligr at sh.cvut.cz>
To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 08:23:40 +0200
Subject: Re: [Ronja] Fwd: Re:  Weird TX Behaviour

Ufff, check shortcircuits on PCB with ohmmeter. These boards form K.J.S.
themselves are incredible crap and solder often makes bridges between
paths and
under SMD parts. Otherwise gnd thermal pads are to thin and can be
interupted.

P. Seliger

> Hi,
> 
> I meant I have K.J.S' PCB. Sorry for the confusion.
> 
> Regards,
> Arun
> 
> 
> ----- Original message -----
> From: "Arun Krishnan" <arunk at speedpost.net>
> To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
> Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 08:04:16 +0530
> Subject: Re: [Ronja] Weird TX Behaviour
> 
> Hi,
> 
> >Burns or shines? If it burns then the resistor in series with the
> >diode is shorted out. If just shines a lot then the TX is oscillating.
> >Do you have official Ronja TX or some unofficial PCB's?
> 
> Shines. I have Seligr's PCB.
> 
> The really weird thing is that the second TX PCB works properly (as far
> as proper behaviour is concerned - I haven't tested this with actual
> data yet) with the same ICs.
> 
> Thanks,
> Arun
> 
> ----- Original message -----
> From: "Karel Kulhavy" <clock at twibright.com>
> To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
> Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 17:44:42 +0200
> Subject: Re: [Ronja] Weird TX Behaviour
> 
> On Thu, Apr 13, 2006 at 09:38:50AM +0530, Arun Krishnan wrote:
> > Hi,
> > 
> > I constructed the PCBs for all the modules of RONJA Tetrapolis and have
> > this problem. My TX LED burns even if the cable from Twister is
> 
> Burns or shines? If it burns then the resistor in series with the
> diode is shorted out. If just shines a lot then the TX is oscillating.
> Do you have official Ronja TX or some unofficial PCB's?
> 
> CL<
> > unplugged. Is this normal? If not, what could be causing this?
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > Arun
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ronja mailing list
> > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 




_______________________________________________
Ronja mailing list
Ronja at lists.pointless.net
http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From clock at twibright.com  Fri Apr 14 09:31:16 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 10:31:16 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] nefunkcni RX
In-Reply-To: <1144959623.443eb287a8a6c@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
References: <7839.14278-25371-1939356603-1144851244@seznam.cz>
	<443D237C.1070103@hkfree.org>
	<20060413153901.GA16699@kestrel.barix.local>
	<1144959623.443eb287a8a6c@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
Message-ID: <20060414083116.GB25256@kestrel>

On Thu, Apr 13, 2006 at 10:20:23PM +0200, Petr Seliger wrote:
> Cituji z emailu od Karel Kulhavy <clock at twibright.com>:
> 
> > On Wed, Apr 12, 2006 at 05:57:48PM +0200, Kendy wrote:
> > > Na prvni pohled vidim moc dlouhe nohy u vstupu. S tim sem mel dost 
> > > problemy. Pak sem zacal pajet co nejkratsi, a ty nejkratsi makaji super.
> > 
> > Kde presne u vstupu? Myslis u RX diody?
> 
> Jo, vsechno co visi na nozickach G1 a G2 vstupniho MOSFETu.

Hm, ted vidim ze jeden ten prijimac je sletovanej podle navodu (maly
kondenzator u tranzistory) a ten druhy naopak.

Ja to stejne budu muset asi predelat na SMD PCB protoze v tomhle stavu
to mozna je prakticky nemozny odrusit. Jestli jo, tak SMD PCB se letuje
celkem snadno a rychle a nedaj se tam takovyhle problemy vytvaret.

Letoval jsem s 125W trafopajkou uz i 0605 soucastky a pohoda. Trafopajka
zvladne vsechno od nejtiternejsich SMD az po plechovy krabice. Weller?
Ee. Na ty trafopajce se cesky inzenyri predvedli, sinus kosinus ctyri
piva deskriptyva :) (Akorat ty srouby mely bejt M4 ale to se snadno
fixne kdyz se strhnou).

CL<
>  
> > CL<
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Funky napsal(a):
> > > 
> > > > Fotky jsou na http://funky.vserver.cz/RX
> > > > 
> > > > Obe RX jsem delal soucasne, jedno funguje a druhe ne..
> > > > Misto koaxu je tam UTP dlouhe cca 50cm
> > > > Je mozne ze by to bylo nejakym studenym spojem ?
> > > > 
> > > > zdar
> > > > Jindra
> > > > 
> > > >> ------------ P?vodn? zpr?va ------------
> > > >> Od: Karel Kulhavy <clock at twibright.com>
> > > >> P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] nefunkcni RX
> > > >> Datum: 12.4.2006 15:06:24
> > > >> ----------------------------------------
> > > >> On Wed, Apr 12, 2006 at 12:48:47PM +0200, Funky wrote:
> > > >> > zdravim, 
> > > >> > 
> > > >> > nefunguje mi RX u ronji tetrapolis, testpointy jsou v priloze,
> > muzete
> > > >> > nekdo poradit co s tim ?  Je to postavene podle navodu.
> > > >> 
> > > >> S timahle hodnotama by to melo chodit. Posli fotku.
> > > >> 
> > > >> CL<
> > > >> > diky,Jindra
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From clock at twibright.com  Fri Apr 14 09:35:33 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 10:35:33 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Fwd: Re:  Weird TX Behaviour
In-Reply-To: <1144989011.3449.259077085@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <1144989011.3449.259077085@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <20060414083533.GA25323@kestrel>

On Fri, Apr 14, 2006 at 10:00:11AM +0530, Arun Krishnan wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I meant I have K.J.S' PCB. Sorry for the confusion.

It's not possible to support this board. Please build the official TX
and try again.

CL<
> 
> Regards,
> Arun
> 
> 
> ----- Original message -----
> From: "Arun Krishnan" <arunk at speedpost.net>
> To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
> Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 08:04:16 +0530
> Subject: Re: [Ronja] Weird TX Behaviour
> 
> Hi,
> 
> >Burns or shines? If it burns then the resistor in series with the
> >diode is shorted out. If just shines a lot then the TX is oscillating.
> >Do you have official Ronja TX or some unofficial PCB's?
> 
> Shines. I have Seligr's PCB.
> 
> The really weird thing is that the second TX PCB works properly (as far
> as proper behaviour is concerned - I haven't tested this with actual
> data yet) with the same ICs.
> 
> Thanks,
> Arun
> 
> ----- Original message -----
> From: "Karel Kulhavy" <clock at twibright.com>
> To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
> Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 17:44:42 +0200
> Subject: Re: [Ronja] Weird TX Behaviour
> 
> On Thu, Apr 13, 2006 at 09:38:50AM +0530, Arun Krishnan wrote:
> > Hi,
> > 
> > I constructed the PCBs for all the modules of RONJA Tetrapolis and have
> > this problem. My TX LED burns even if the cable from Twister is
> 
> Burns or shines? If it burns then the resistor in series with the
> diode is shorted out. If just shines a lot then the TX is oscillating.
> Do you have official Ronja TX or some unofficial PCB's?
> 
> CL<
> > unplugged. Is this normal? If not, what could be causing this?
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > Arun
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ronja mailing list
> > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From glo at glottis.net  Fri Apr 14 09:41:23 2006
From: glo at glottis.net (=?iso-8859-2?Q?Michal_Mal=F9=B9ek?=)
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 10:41:23 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] nefunkcni RX
References: <7839.14278-25371-1939356603-1144851244@seznam.cz><443D237C.1070103@hkfree.org><20060413153901.GA16699@kestrel.barix.local><1144959623.443eb287a8a6c@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
	<20060414083116.GB25256@kestrel>
Message-ID: <000501c65f9f$3619ff30$0103450a@Glottis>

ja nechci rejt ael ze to melo byt v SMD tady prosazujeme snad sto let

glo

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Karel Kulhavy" <clock na twibright.com>
To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja na lists.pointless.net>
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 10:31 AM
Subject: Re: [Ronja] nefunkcni RX


On Thu, Apr 13, 2006 at 10:20:23PM +0200, Petr Seliger wrote:
> Cituji z emailu od Karel Kulhavy <clock na twibright.com>:
>
> > On Wed, Apr 12, 2006 at 05:57:48PM +0200, Kendy wrote:
> > > Na prvni pohled vidim moc dlouhe nohy u vstupu. S tim sem mel dost
> > > problemy. Pak sem zacal pajet co nejkratsi, a ty nejkratsi makaji
super.
> >
> > Kde presne u vstupu? Myslis u RX diody?
>
> Jo, vsechno co visi na nozickach G1 a G2 vstupniho MOSFETu.

Hm, ted vidim ze jeden ten prijimac je sletovanej podle navodu (maly
kondenzator u tranzistory) a ten druhy naopak.

Ja to stejne budu muset asi predelat na SMD PCB protoze v tomhle stavu
to mozna je prakticky nemozny odrusit. Jestli jo, tak SMD PCB se letuje
celkem snadno a rychle a nedaj se tam takovyhle problemy vytvaret.

Letoval jsem s 125W trafopajkou uz i 0605 soucastky a pohoda. Trafopajka
zvladne vsechno od nejtiternejsich SMD az po plechovy krabice. Weller?
Ee. Na ty trafopajce se cesky inzenyri predvedli, sinus kosinus ctyri
piva deskriptyva :) (Akorat ty srouby mely bejt M4 ale to se snadno
fixne kdyz se strhnou).

CL<
>
> > CL<
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Funky napsal(a):
> > >
> > > > Fotky jsou na http://funky.vserver.cz/RX
> > > >
> > > > Obe RX jsem delal soucasne, jedno funguje a druhe ne..
> > > > Misto koaxu je tam UTP dlouhe cca 50cm
> > > > Je mozne ze by to bylo nejakym studenym spojem ?
> > > >
> > > > zdar
> > > > Jindra
> > > >
> > > >> ------------ P?vodn? zpr?va ------------
> > > >> Od: Karel Kulhavy <clock na twibright.com>
> > > >> P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] nefunkcni RX
> > > >> Datum: 12.4.2006 15:06:24
> > > >> ----------------------------------------
> > > >> On Wed, Apr 12, 2006 at 12:48:47PM +0200, Funky wrote:
> > > >> > zdravim,
> > > >> >
> > > >> > nefunguje mi RX u ronji tetrapolis, testpointy jsou v priloze,
> > muzete
> > > >> > nekdo poradit co s tim ?  Je to postavene podle navodu.
> > > >>
> > > >> S timahle hodnotama by to melo chodit. Posli fotku.
> > > >>
> > > >> CL<
> > > >> > diky,Jindra
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja

_______________________________________________
Ronja mailing list
Ronja na lists.pointless.net
http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja



From seligr at sh.cvut.cz  Fri Apr 14 13:03:23 2006
From: seligr at sh.cvut.cz (Petr Seliger)
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 14:03:23 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] nefunkcni RX
In-Reply-To: <000501c65f9f$3619ff30$0103450a@Glottis>
References: <7839.14278-25371-1939356603-1144851244@seznam.cz><443D237C.1070103@hkfree.org><20060413153901.GA16699@kestrel.barix.local><1144959623.443eb287a8a6c@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
	<20060414083116.GB25256@kestrel>
	<000501c65f9f$3619ff30$0103450a@Glottis>
Message-ID: <1145016203.443f8f8b49656@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>

Solidni prijimac v SMD uz je http://wiki.twibright.com/index.php/RxPcbSeligr
Jen nejsou lidi aby k tomu udelali navod nebo to prekreslili do toho Clockova
obskurniho editoru PCB a dodelali navod. Tehlech plosnaku uz je nasazeno kolem
sta kusu a zadnej problem, krome tech kusu kde jsou BNC konektory a leve ruce
prehodily kabely a nemeli u twistera pojistku.

BTW: kam se z wiki ztracej obrazky?

> ja nechci rejt ael ze to melo byt v SMD tady prosazujeme snad sto let
> 
> glo
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Karel Kulhavy" <clock at twibright.com>
> To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
> Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 10:31 AM
> Subject: Re: [Ronja] nefunkcni RX
> 
> 
> On Thu, Apr 13, 2006 at 10:20:23PM +0200, Petr Seliger wrote:
> > Cituji z emailu od Karel Kulhavy <clock at twibright.com>:
> >
> > > On Wed, Apr 12, 2006 at 05:57:48PM +0200, Kendy wrote:
> > > > Na prvni pohled vidim moc dlouhe nohy u vstupu. S tim sem mel dost
> > > > problemy. Pak sem zacal pajet co nejkratsi, a ty nejkratsi makaji
> super.
> > >
> > > Kde presne u vstupu? Myslis u RX diody?
> >
> > Jo, vsechno co visi na nozickach G1 a G2 vstupniho MOSFETu.
> 
> Hm, ted vidim ze jeden ten prijimac je sletovanej podle navodu (maly
> kondenzator u tranzistory) a ten druhy naopak.
> 
> Ja to stejne budu muset asi predelat na SMD PCB protoze v tomhle stavu
> to mozna je prakticky nemozny odrusit. Jestli jo, tak SMD PCB se letuje
> celkem snadno a rychle a nedaj se tam takovyhle problemy vytvaret.
> 
> Letoval jsem s 125W trafopajkou uz i 0605 soucastky a pohoda. Trafopajka
> zvladne vsechno od nejtiternejsich SMD az po plechovy krabice. Weller?
> Ee. Na ty trafopajce se cesky inzenyri predvedli, sinus kosinus ctyri
> piva deskriptyva :) (Akorat ty srouby mely bejt M4 ale to se snadno
> fixne kdyz se strhnou).
> 
> CL<
> >
> > > CL<
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Funky napsal(a):
> > > >
> > > > > Fotky jsou na http://funky.vserver.cz/RX
> > > > >
> > > > > Obe RX jsem delal soucasne, jedno funguje a druhe ne..
> > > > > Misto koaxu je tam UTP dlouhe cca 50cm
> > > > > Je mozne ze by to bylo nejakym studenym spojem ?
> > > > >
> > > > > zdar
> > > > > Jindra
> > > > >
> > > > >> ------------ P?vodn? zpr?va ------------
> > > > >> Od: Karel Kulhavy <clock at twibright.com>
> > > > >> P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] nefunkcni RX
> > > > >> Datum: 12.4.2006 15:06:24
> > > > >> ----------------------------------------
> > > > >> On Wed, Apr 12, 2006 at 12:48:47PM +0200, Funky wrote:
> > > > >> > zdravim,
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > nefunguje mi RX u ronji tetrapolis, testpointy jsou v priloze,
> > > muzete
> > > > >> > nekdo poradit co s tim ?  Je to postavene podle navodu.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> S timahle hodnotama by to melo chodit. Posli fotku.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> CL<
> > > > >> > diky,Jindra
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ronja mailing list
> > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 





From Funky at seznam.cz  Fri Apr 14 15:17:54 2006
From: Funky at seznam.cz (Funky)
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 16:17:54 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Ronja] nefunkcni RX
In-Reply-To: <1144864372.443d3e7432a6c@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
Message-ID: <7791.14248-20105-939877274-1145024274@seznam.cz>

Ahoj,

upravil jsem delku nozicek kondenzatoru u mosfetu a zastrcil jsem diodu, aby trcel jen vrchlik
http://funky.vserver.cz/RX/opraveneRX_01.jpg
http://funky.vserver.cz/RX/opraveneRX_02.jpg

Bohuzel zadna zmena. test provadim podle http://ronja.twibright.com/testing/ploss_tetrapolis_ping.php
funkcni RX ma RSSI 3.6V na vzdalenost 40cm a nefunkcni ma 0.1V na stejnou vzdalenost
Je mozne ze je odpaleny mosfet nebo NE592 ?

Jindra
>  ------------ P?vodn? zpr?va ------------
>  Od: Petr Seliger <seligr na sh.cvut.cz>
>  P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] nefunkcni RX
>  Datum: 12.4.2006 19:53:05
>  ----------------------------------------
>  Presne tak. Me se nezda to rssi, tam muzou byt maximalne desitky mV.
>  Jeste bych zastrcil fotodiodu hloub do krabicky aby couhal jen vrchlik.
>  Vetsinou
>  to pomuze.
>  
>  > Na prvni pohled vidim moc dlouhe nohy u vstupu. S tim sem mel dost 
>  > problemy. Pak sem zacal pajet co nejkratsi, a ty nejkratsi makaji super.
>  > 
>  > 
>  > 
>  > Funky napsal(a):
>  > 
>  > > Fotky jsou na http://funky.vserver.cz/RX
>  > > 
>  > > Obe RX jsem delal soucasne, jedno funguje a druhe ne..
>  > > Misto koaxu je tam UTP dlouhe cca 50cm
>  > > Je mozne ze by to bylo nejakym studenym spojem ?
>  > > 
>  > > zdar
>  > > Jindra
>  > > 
>  > >> ------------ P?vodn? zpr?va ------------
>  > >> Od: Karel Kulhavy <clock na twibright.com>
>  > >> P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] nefunkcni RX
>  > >> Datum: 12.4.2006 15:06:24
>  > >> ----------------------------------------
>  > >> On Wed, Apr 12, 2006 at 12:48:47PM +0200, Funky wrote:
>  > >> > zdravim, 
>  > >> > 
>  > >> > nefunguje mi RX u ronji tetrapolis, testpointy jsou v priloze, muzete
>  > >> > nekdo poradit co s tim ?  Je to postavene podle navodu.
>  > >> 
>  > >> S timahle hodnotama by to melo chodit. Posli fotku.
>  > >> 
>  > >> CL<
>  > >> > diky,Jindra


From cd930 at centrum.cz  Fri Apr 14 15:48:44 2006
From: cd930 at centrum.cz (-=RYS=-)
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 16:48:44 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] nefunkcni RX
In-Reply-To: <7791.14248-20105-939877274-1145024274@seznam.cz>
References: <1144864372.443d3e7432a6c@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
	<7791.14248-20105-939877274-1145024274@seznam.cz>
Message-ID: <200604141648.4477@centrum.cz>

No je taky mozne jeste takova drobnost.
Prehlcenej vstup.
Muzes mit ten druhej RX o dost citlivejsi nez ten prvni (lepsi Beta).
Zkus to dat tak 1m od sebe jestli se ti to rozjede.
Martin -=RYS=-


______________________________________________________________
> Od: Funky na seznam.cz
> Komu: Twibright Ronja <ronja na lists.pointless.net>
> CC: 
> Datum: 14.04.2006 16:18
> P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] nefunkcni RX
>
> Ahoj,
> 
> upravil jsem delku nozicek kondenzatoru u mosfetu a zastrcil jsem diodu,
> aby trcel jen vrchlik
> http://funky.vserver.cz/RX/opraveneRX_01.jpg
> http://funky.vserver.cz/RX/opraveneRX_02.jpg
> 
> Bohuzel zadna zmena. test provadim podle
> http://ronja.twibright.com/testing/ploss_tetrapolis_ping.php
> funkcni RX ma RSSI 3.6V na vzdalenost 40cm a nefunkcni ma 0.1V na stejnou
> vzdalenost
> Je mozne ze je odpaleny mosfet nebo NE592 ?
> 
> Jindra
> > ------------ P?vodn? zpr?va ------------
> > Od: Petr Seliger 
> > P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] nefunkcni RX
> > Datum: 12.4.2006 19:53:05
> > ----------------------------------------
> > Presne tak. Me se nezda to rssi, tam muzou byt maximalne desitky mV.
> > Jeste bych zastrcil fotodiodu hloub do krabicky aby couhal jen vrchlik.
> > Vetsinou
> > to pomuze.
> > > > Na prvni pohled vidim moc dlouhe nohy u vstupu. S tim sem mel dost
> > > problemy. Pak sem zacal pajet co nejkratsi, a ty nejkratsi makaji
> super.
> > > > > > > > > Funky napsal(a):
> > > > > > Fotky jsou na http://funky.vserver.cz/RX
> > > > > > > Obe RX jsem delal soucasne, jedno funguje a druhe ne..
> > > > Misto koaxu je tam UTP dlouhe cca 50cm
> > > > Je mozne ze by to bylo nejakym studenym spojem ?
> > > > > > > zdar
> > > > Jindra
> > > > > > >> ------------ P?vodn? zpr?va ------------
> > > >> Od: Karel Kulhavy 
> > > >> P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] nefunkcni RX
> > > >> Datum: 12.4.2006 15:06:24
> > > >> ----------------------------------------
> > > >> On Wed, Apr 12, 2006 at 12:48:47PM +0200, Funky wrote:
> > > >> > zdravim, > > >> > > > >> > nefunguje mi RX u ronji tetrapolis,
> testpointy jsou v priloze, muzete
> > > >> > nekdo poradit co s tim ? Je to postavene podle navodu.
> > > >> > > >> S timahle hodnotama by to melo chodit. Posli fotku.
> > > >> > > >> CL<
> > > >> > diky,Jindra
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 


------------- dal?? ??st ---------------
HTML p??loha byla odstran?na...
URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20060414/248126c8/attachment.html 

From Funky at seznam.cz  Fri Apr 14 16:14:30 2006
From: Funky at seznam.cz (Funky)
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 17:14:30 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Ronja] nefunkcni RX
In-Reply-To: <200604141648.4477@centrum.cz>
Message-ID: <7788.14217-23419-347374229-1145027670@seznam.cz>

tak sem to zkusil a nejede... RSSi bylo 0.01V

>  ------------ P?vodn? zpr?va ------------
>  Od: -=RYS=- <cd930 na centrum.cz>
>  P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] nefunkcni RX
>  Datum: 14.4.2006 16:49:00
>  ----------------------------------------
>  No je taky mozne jeste takova drobnost.
>  Prehlcenej vstup.
>  Muzes mit ten druhej RX o dost citlivejsi nez ten prvni (lepsi Beta).
>  Zkus to dat tak 1m od sebe jestli se ti to rozjede.
>  Martin -=RYS=-
>  
>  
>  ______________________________________________________________
>  > Od: Funky na seznam.cz
>  > Komu: Twibright Ronja <ronja na lists.pointless.net>
>  > CC: 
>  > Datum: 14.04.2006 16:18
>  > P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] nefunkcni RX
>  >
>  > Ahoj,
>  > 
>  > upravil jsem delku nozicek kondenzatoru u mosfetu a zastrcil jsem diodu,
>  > aby trcel jen vrchlik
>  > http://funky.vserver.cz/RX/opraveneRX_01.jpg
>  > http://funky.vserver.cz/RX/opraveneRX_02.jpg
>  > 
>  > Bohuzel zadna zmena. test provadim podle
>  > http://ronja.twibright.com/testing/ploss_tetrapolis_ping.php
>  > funkcni RX ma RSSI 3.6V na vzdalenost 40cm a nefunkcni ma 0.1V na stejnou
>  > vzdalenost
>  > Je mozne ze je odpaleny mosfet nebo NE592 ?
>  > 
>  > Jindra
>  > > ------------ P?vodn? zpr?va ------------
>  > > Od: Petr Seliger 
>  > > P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] nefunkcni RX
>  > > Datum: 12.4.2006 19:53:05
>  > > ----------------------------------------
>  > > Presne tak. Me se nezda to rssi, tam muzou byt maximalne desitky mV.
>  > > Jeste bych zastrcil fotodiodu hloub do krabicky aby couhal jen vrchlik.
>  > > Vetsinou
>  > > to pomuze.
>  > > > > Na prvni pohled vidim moc dlouhe nohy u vstupu. S tim sem mel dost
>  > > > problemy. Pak sem zacal pajet co nejkratsi, a ty nejkratsi makaji
>  > super.
>  > > > > > > > > > Funky napsal(a):
>  > > > > > > Fotky jsou na http://funky.vserver.cz/RX
>  > > > > > > > Obe RX jsem delal soucasne, jedno funguje a druhe ne..
>  > > > > Misto koaxu je tam UTP dlouhe cca 50cm
>  > > > > Je mozne ze by to bylo nejakym studenym spojem ?
>  > > > > > > > zdar
>  > > > > Jindra
>  > > > > > > >> ------------ P?vodn? zpr?va ------------
>  > > > >> Od: Karel Kulhavy 
>  > > > >> P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] nefunkcni RX
>  > > > >> Datum: 12.4.2006 15:06:24
>  > > > >> ----------------------------------------
>  > > > >> On Wed, Apr 12, 2006 at 12:48:47PM +0200, Funky wrote:
>  > > > >> > zdravim, > > >> > > > >> > nefunguje mi RX u ronji tetrapolis,
>  > testpointy jsou v priloze, muzete
>  > > > >> > nekdo poradit co s tim ? Je to postavene podle navodu.
>  > > > >> > > >> S timahle hodnotama by to melo chodit. Posli fotku.
>  > > > >> > > >> CL<
>  > > > >> > diky,Jindra
>  > 
>  > _______________________________________________
>  > Ronja mailing list
>  > Ronja na lists.pointless.net
>  > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>  > 
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  


From cd930 at centrum.cz  Fri Apr 14 16:59:15 2006
From: cd930 at centrum.cz (-=RYS=-)
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 17:59:15 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] nefunkcni RX
In-Reply-To: <7788.14217-23419-347374229-1145027670@seznam.cz>
References: <200604141648.4477@centrum.cz>
	<7788.14217-23419-347374229-1145027670@seznam.cz>
Message-ID: <200604141759.6452@centrum.cz>

Takze pak :
1) opticky se podivat po spojich, jestli to neni nekde zkratovane s kostrou krabicky
2) opticky se podivat po spojich, jestli to nechce nekde pretavit cin
3) vymenit FET
4) vymenit NE
5) vymenit oba transistory.
Martin

______________________________________________________________
> Od: Funky na seznam.cz
> Komu: Twibright Ronja <ronja na lists.pointless.net>
> CC: 
> Datum: 14.04.2006 17:14
> P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] nefunkcni RX
>
> tak sem to zkusil a nejede... RSSi bylo 0.01V



------------- dal?? ??st ---------------
HTML p??loha byla odstran?na...
URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20060414/90108585/attachment.html 

From seligr at sh.cvut.cz  Fri Apr 14 17:11:00 2006
From: seligr at sh.cvut.cz (Petr Seliger)
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 18:11:00 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] nefunkcni RX
In-Reply-To: <7788.14217-23419-347374229-1145027670@seznam.cz>
References: <7788.14217-23419-347374229-1145027670@seznam.cz>
Message-ID: <1145031060.443fc994b9d28@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>

Bych to typoval na mosfet. Zkus jeste premerit napeti proti kostre na mosfetu a
nozickach NE592 a pri tom zkontrolovat jestli jsou soucastky spravne zapojeny.
Na NE592 by mela byt napeti na obou stranach priblizne stejna.
PIN:
1,14 cca 6V
2,13 kostra
3,12 cca 5V    - kdyz se tahle dve lisi o vic jak desitky mV
4,11 cca 5,2V  - tak to je priznak ze mosfet kmita
5,10 napajeni
6,9  kostra
7,8  cca 8-9,5V proti sobe bezne tak volt


> tak sem to zkusil a nejede... RSSi bylo 0.01V
> 
> >  ------------ P?vodn? zpr?va ------------
> >  Od: -=RYS=- <cd930 at centrum.cz>
> >  P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] nefunkcni RX
> >  Datum: 14.4.2006 16:49:00
> >  ----------------------------------------
> >  No je taky mozne jeste takova drobnost.
> >  Prehlcenej vstup.
> >  Muzes mit ten druhej RX o dost citlivejsi nez ten prvni (lepsi Beta).
> >  Zkus to dat tak 1m od sebe jestli se ti to rozjede.
> >  Martin -=RYS=-
> >  
> >  
> >  ______________________________________________________________
> >  > Od: Funky at seznam.cz
> >  > Komu: Twibright Ronja <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
> >  > CC: 
> >  > Datum: 14.04.2006 16:18
> >  > P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] nefunkcni RX
> >  >
> >  > Ahoj,
> >  > 
> >  > upravil jsem delku nozicek kondenzatoru u mosfetu a zastrcil jsem
> diodu,
> >  > aby trcel jen vrchlik
> >  > http://funky.vserver.cz/RX/opraveneRX_01.jpg
> >  > http://funky.vserver.cz/RX/opraveneRX_02.jpg
> >  > 
> >  > Bohuzel zadna zmena. test provadim podle
> >  > http://ronja.twibright.com/testing/ploss_tetrapolis_ping.php
> >  > funkcni RX ma RSSI 3.6V na vzdalenost 40cm a nefunkcni ma 0.1V na
> stejnou
> >  > vzdalenost
> >  > Je mozne ze je odpaleny mosfet nebo NE592 ?
> >  > 
> >  > Jindra
> >  > > ------------ P?vodn? zpr?va ------------
> >  > > Od: Petr Seliger 
> >  > > P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] nefunkcni RX
> >  > > Datum: 12.4.2006 19:53:05
> >  > > ----------------------------------------
> >  > > Presne tak. Me se nezda to rssi, tam muzou byt maximalne desitky mV.
> >  > > Jeste bych zastrcil fotodiodu hloub do krabicky aby couhal jen
> vrchlik.
> >  > > Vetsinou
> >  > > to pomuze.
> >  > > > > Na prvni pohled vidim moc dlouhe nohy u vstupu. S tim sem mel
> dost
> >  > > > problemy. Pak sem zacal pajet co nejkratsi, a ty nejkratsi makaji
> >  > super.
> >  > > > > > > > > > Funky napsal(a):
> >  > > > > > > Fotky jsou na http://funky.vserver.cz/RX
> >  > > > > > > > Obe RX jsem delal soucasne, jedno funguje a druhe ne..
> >  > > > > Misto koaxu je tam UTP dlouhe cca 50cm
> >  > > > > Je mozne ze by to bylo nejakym studenym spojem ?
> >  > > > > > > > zdar
> >  > > > > Jindra
> >  > > > > > > >> ------------ P?vodn? zpr?va ------------
> >  > > > >> Od: Karel Kulhavy 
> >  > > > >> P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] nefunkcni RX
> >  > > > >> Datum: 12.4.2006 15:06:24
> >  > > > >> ----------------------------------------
> >  > > > >> On Wed, Apr 12, 2006 at 12:48:47PM +0200, Funky wrote:
> >  > > > >> > zdravim, > > >> > > > >> > nefunguje mi RX u ronji
> tetrapolis,
> >  > testpointy jsou v priloze, muzete
> >  > > > >> > nekdo poradit co s tim ? Je to postavene podle navodu.
> >  > > > >> > > >> S timahle hodnotama by to melo chodit. Posli fotku.
> >  > > > >> > > >> CL<
> >  > > > >> > diky,Jindra
> >  > 
> >  > _______________________________________________
> >  > Ronja mailing list
> >  > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> >  > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> >  > 
> >  
> >  
> >  
> >  
> >  
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 





From cd930 at centrum.cz  Fri Apr 14 17:50:33 2006
From: cd930 at centrum.cz (-=RYS=-)
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 18:50:33 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Linky v Zatci
Message-ID: <200604141850.14399@centrum.cz>

Ahoj Karle,
dnes jsme zprovoznili dve "Ronja" linky v Zatci.
Parametry a fotky jsem ti poslal na soukr adresu.
Dej je prosim mezi dalsi Zatecke linky na:? http://ronja.advel.cz/installations.php
Diky?? Martin -=RYS=-? OK1MJO


------------- dal?? ??st ---------------
HTML p??loha byla odstran?na...
URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20060414/c29c8a42/attachment-0001.html 

From hollari1 at gmx.at  Fri Apr 14 20:32:54 2006
From: hollari1 at gmx.at (Sigfried Hollrigl)
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 21:32:54 +0200 (MEST)
Subject: [Ronja] another IR chip
References: <mailman.37.1145003547.471.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
Message-ID: <21423.1145043174@www078.gmx.net>


MAXIM-IC is a good Idea.
I have also ordered a few samples from them.

They shipped most of them.

I think a friend of me tried already to
build something with the MAX3130 or MAX3131 (?!?)
you have mentioned.
But there was some problem that makes it a lot
more complicated than expected.
And : Its limited to 115kBit because its a converter
to RS232.

You are right, 115kBit/s is nice for some applications.
But what?s the problem to use this USB-IrDA Sticks
and run them on 4 MBit ?

I have got them today, and it seems that RX and TX are
very close to each other.

-> Should not be a problem to focus it with just one lens.
(maybe not as good as if its separated)

But i will give it a try.

I think the bigger challange is to get it working with Linux.

Sigi


-- 
Analog-/ISDN-Nutzer sparen mit GMX SmartSurfer bis zu 70%!
Kostenlos downloaden: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/smartsurfer


From antitron at web.de  Sat Apr 15 13:25:56 2006
From: antitron at web.de (Thomas Egenhofer)
Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 14:25:56 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] another IR chip  & heavy simplyfied twister?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1145098800.6624.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
References: <mailman.1.1145098800.6624.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
Message-ID: <1145103956.2674.40.camel@localhost.localdomain>


> MAXIM-IC is a good Idea.
> I have also ordered a few samples from them.
> 
> They shipped most of them.
> 
> I think a friend of me tried already to
> build something with the MAX3130 or MAX3131 (?!?)
> you have mentioned.
thats good to hear. my order is placed,too.
> But there was some problem that makes it a lot
> more complicated than expected.
can't imagine there is that much trouble.
> And : Its limited to 115kBit because its a converter
> to RS232.
know that. but its still lots more than normal modem.

> But what?s the problem to use this USB-IrDA Sticks
> and run them on 4 MBit ?
> 
> I have got them today, and it seems that RX and TX are
> very close to each other.
are the RX/TX diodes seperat from the IrDA en/decoder chip?



> -> Should not be a problem to focus it with just one lens.
> (maybe not as good as if its separated)
dont missjudge such a thing. i could imagine this beeing a pretty huge
problem 

> But i will give it a try.
thats the spirit!

> I think the bigger challange is to get it working with Linux.
.. irda is not that easy. but a rs232 nullmodem is no problem.its easy
to set up a ppp-like connetion so you can use it like normal 10/100 lan
(just ways slower). you can integrate it in such a network,too.
irda.. well jeah^^ there is a way to get a lan-like connection via
ir-adapters but all i found was pretty out-of-date.
think of all those 10$ notebooks without screen and those 5$ 10/100mbit
lan pcmcia cards.. nice way to set up a accesspoint right under the
roof.(mini-linux with required netwok stuff and webmin allows to
administrate it over the network :D)
-erm im terribly sorry since this is no linux mailing list *begging for
my live*

another way i thougt of might be using the printer-port. would require a
few mono-flops and D-flipflops but it the printerport can handle higher
data-rates.

first lets check out these maxim ic's.

ps:i spotted a 6km line of sight from a chimeny in my village to the
first row of houses from the neightbour village.. thats my final goal.

ps: ps: i just had the idea about retriggerable and non-retriggerable
monoflops to decide wether or not ronja receives or sends just the
idle-signal or actual data.(so to say a data-valid signal made from the
received and digitalized signal, can be used with an AND to send only
the data-payload and not the idle signal - a lot of ic's could be
spared)
if my idea is not totaly wrong we could spare a lot of those sliding
registers. ripple counter and so on... if the preamble is allowed to
miss a few signals ( i think thats ok if i remeber the specs correctly)
it should be fine. (2 monoflops (1 retriggerable,th other can be both)
on the reveicer side are enough, 1 on tranmitter (retriggerable, too)
the 1mhz clock,a few nands and the 10mbit interface ic + few
capacitors&resistors => whole twister design. if someone is intrested
i'll make my idea into a shematic (without working garantuee) just so
give you an idea.

best greetings to all of you.
Thommy e.

ps:ps:ps: please feedback me about this monoflopped-twister stuff, i
like to hear your opinions! (there are pretty good monoflops out there,
precision timing within nSecs, both re and non-retriggerable)





From antitron at web.de  Sat Apr 15 21:01:03 2006
From: antitron at web.de (Thomas Egenhofer)
Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 22:01:03 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Monoflopped Twister design-massive simplyfied
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1145098800.6624.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
References: <mailman.1.1145098800.6624.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
Message-ID: <1145131263.23142.26.camel@localhost.localdomain>

hi guys,

like mentioned before i thought about using re-triggerable monoflops to
re-design the twister. ( to avoid all those counters)
up to today i couldn't figuire out what exactly the twister is doing.
i just noticed that is stuffs a 1mhz signal between the packages to
maintain a certain dc-level on the receiver side whitch avoids noise to
be interpreted as data.


if its just this. check out my design. you can find it on my webspace
here
http://home.arcor.de/positiveelectron/files/yetanothertwister.jpg
this circuit stuffs a empty 1mhz signal between packages and takes out
the signal after they are received again. you can variate the duration
how long no 1mhz-idle signal is send after a package, with the monoflop
which controlls the AND-logic deciding wether or not a idle signal is
sent at all. more than 100ns are necessary to work properly while
sending a package, with 200-500 ns you should be on the save side.
i wouldn't recommend more than that since it could result in a more than
1500ns long low-signal (or high, depending on the Tx-unit).

i didnt draw the networkinterface ic's since i'm not shure what to do
about them (finding a suitable rs422/4** tranceiver is quite a task. so
i'm still looking vor some opv or transistor-solution). anyway just
think of the differential signal beeing already converted into a clean
ttl signal.
all monoflops are retriggerable and more or less used as digital
frequency passes.
all times for the output pulse-with of the monoflops are in nanoseks.

the receiver works very simmilar to the transmitter.the first monoflop
on the receiver side determines if there is a signal. if 2 edges are
less than the recommended 200-500ns apart from each other it will remain
in the high-output. when data is send, the preable and all other data
will cause the first monoflop to stay in the high-state. the second will
change one time and fall back after about 1200ns thats the point where
the data is recognised as valid. so about 20% of the preable will be
lost but lets hope your network card can syncronize even with 50 clocks.

if a idle signal is received the first monoflop will turn high eveytime
the received signal goes high,too. but it will fall down befor the next.
so the second monoflop will get a 1mhz signal with 200-500ns pulse width
(depending on what value the first monoflop was set the first one).
since the second monoflop has a pulse duration longer than the 1mhz
signal it will be pushed into a permanent high-state which blocks the
AND logic so no further signals can pass to the network-itnerface.


suggestions, critics,toughts are very welcome.

greetins,
Thomas E.

ps: my textboox says so-build monoflop have a time-tollerance of about 1
% . datasheet has a few max about 8% . but we have dozen times more
tollerance to still work so everyting yould be fine (if the led's and
receiver does the rest)



From arunk at speedpost.net  Sat Apr 15 22:38:24 2006
From: arunk at speedpost.net (Arun Krishnan)
Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 03:08:24 +0530
Subject: [Ronja] Monoflopped Twister design-massive simplyfied
In-Reply-To: <1145131263.23142.26.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <mailman.1.1145098800.6624.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
	<1145131263.23142.26.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <1145137104.816.259165252@webmail.messagingengine.com>

Hi,

The DS26LS31/32 is the line drivers/receivers in the Twister design of
Clock.

With Best Regards,
Arun


----- Original message -----
From: "Thomas Egenhofer" <antitron at web.de>
To: ronja at lists.pointless.net
Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 22:01:03 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Monoflopped Twister design-massive simplyfied

hi guys,

like mentioned before i thought about using re-triggerable monoflops to
re-design the twister. ( to avoid all those counters)
up to today i couldn't figuire out what exactly the twister is doing.
i just noticed that is stuffs a 1mhz signal between the packages to
maintain a certain dc-level on the receiver side whitch avoids noise to
be interpreted as data.


if its just this. check out my design. you can find it on my webspace
here
http://home.arcor.de/positiveelectron/files/yetanothertwister.jpg
this circuit stuffs a empty 1mhz signal between packages and takes out
the signal after they are received again. you can variate the duration
how long no 1mhz-idle signal is send after a package, with the monoflop
which controlls the AND-logic deciding wether or not a idle signal is
sent at all. more than 100ns are necessary to work properly while
sending a package, with 200-500 ns you should be on the save side.
i wouldn't recommend more than that since it could result in a more than
1500ns long low-signal (or high, depending on the Tx-unit).

i didnt draw the networkinterface ic's since i'm not shure what to do
about them (finding a suitable rs422/4** tranceiver is quite a task. so
i'm still looking vor some opv or transistor-solution). anyway just
think of the differential signal beeing already converted into a clean
ttl signal.
all monoflops are retriggerable and more or less used as digital
frequency passes.
all times for the output pulse-with of the monoflops are in nanoseks.

the receiver works very simmilar to the transmitter.the first monoflop
on the receiver side determines if there is a signal. if 2 edges are
less than the recommended 200-500ns apart from each other it will remain
in the high-output. when data is send, the preable and all other data
will cause the first monoflop to stay in the high-state. the second will
change one time and fall back after about 1200ns thats the point where
the data is recognised as valid. so about 20% of the preable will be
lost but lets hope your network card can syncronize even with 50 clocks.

if a idle signal is received the first monoflop will turn high eveytime
the received signal goes high,too. but it will fall down befor the next.
so the second monoflop will get a 1mhz signal with 200-500ns pulse width
(depending on what value the first monoflop was set the first one).
since the second monoflop has a pulse duration longer than the 1mhz
signal it will be pushed into a permanent high-state which blocks the
AND logic so no further signals can pass to the network-itnerface.


suggestions, critics,toughts are very welcome.

greetins,
Thomas E.

ps: my textboox says so-build monoflop have a time-tollerance of about 1
% . datasheet has a few max about 8% . but we have dozen times more
tollerance to still work so everyting yould be fine (if the led's and
receiver does the rest)


_______________________________________________
Ronja mailing list
Ronja at lists.pointless.net
http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From antitron at web.de  Sun Apr 16 00:39:41 2006
From: antitron at web.de (Thomas Egenhofer)
Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 01:39:41 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Monoflopped Twister design-massive simplyfied
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1145098800.6624.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
References: <mailman.1.1145098800.6624.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
Message-ID: <1145144382.25342.12.camel@localhost.localdomain>

hi again.

i just checked my design and the IEEE standarts.
i noticed that using a 1mhz idle signal causes my ciruit to lose quite a
bit of the preamble. increasing it to 5mhz and setting the first
monoflops of each ,transmitter/receiver to 150ns and the second receiver
monoflop to about 250 reduces this loss. ( i still think it should work
even with 1mhz)

and maybe inverting a few inputs here and there could help to reduce
even more. since this is more or less a digital bandfilter/pass we can
filter transmission frequencys pretty precise with a 100%/0% cutoff.
so checking the input for higher frequencies might be better than for
low.
atm its checked if nosignal (idle signal is transmittet or not),
recognizing a normal signal takes more than a idle signal length.
so the other way around might work better (if it can work at all)
-sry its pretty late so i'll think about the second possibility after i
got some sleep.
well jeah^^ on more thing. in case those circuits are working, they
should be pretty easy to be implemented into the receiver/transmitter
boards since they are pretty small. .. and each monoflop needs a
resistor/capacitor combination to determine the pulse length (forgot to
tell ya but most of you might have guessed it allready).

for the network-interface i thought of another video-amp like in the
receiver stage with pull-up / pull down resistors. just in case
interface ic's are hard to get.

like already said.. let me know what you are thinking!
greetings,
thommy e

ps: semms like i'm only writing endless posts.. but this time i'm pretty
shure to made samething useful.




From antitron at web.de  Sun Apr 16 11:01:21 2006
From: antitron at web.de (Thomas Egenhofer)
Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 12:01:21 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Monoflopped Twister design-massive simplyfied
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1145098800.6624.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
References: <mailman.1.1145098800.6624.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
Message-ID: <1145181681.2675.26.camel@localhost.localdomain>

ahm hi there again,


if you stick to the worst case data in the 74ls123 datasheet a 76ns
pulse is absolute minimum output (45ns typical). in addition to that the
output is delayed by maximal 40ns. a precision from +-3% from
temperature changes is given,too.
luckily none of those values have a bad influence on the signal, de the
delay just cuts off another 40ns of the preamble on the transmitter side
but that should be all right.

second thing, i thought over my receiver part. if you invert the input
of the first monoflop, you dont need the second at all. you have to
remove the negation from the AND,too. pulseduration from this should be
more than 100ns (to keep it high while transmission of data) but less
than 450ns (to fall back to low before the idle signal goes high; 50ns
are from the delay 74ls123 produces).if the value is over 450ns the
monoflop output and idle signal could be high at the same time causing a
wrong piece of data to be transmitted.

this change will also reduce the preamble loss to the delay a 74ls123
causes. in worst case we lose 80ns of the preamble. i think thats even
within ieee standart (not shure, could find a line telling whats the
minimum to receiver, only the minimum to be transmitted.)

so we need nothing more than only 3 ic's (ok maybe 4 due to negation of
a signal)

greetings
thommy e



From hollari1 at gmx.at  Sun Apr 16 18:23:25 2006
From: hollari1 at gmx.at (Sigfried Hollrigl)
Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 19:23:25 +0200 (MEST)
Subject: [Ronja] another IR chip  & heavy simplyfied twister?
References: <mailman.1.1145185201.17793.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
Message-ID: <10527.1145208205@www087.gmx.net>


I think, the problem with these MAXIM-ICs
was that you need an external clock-Generator,
that is synchronized with the Data on RS232.
And we had no idea how to do it.

But when i think about it, maybe we gave up too early.

Sigi

-- 
Echte DSL-Flatrate dauerhaft f?r 0,- Euro*!
"Feel free" mit GMX DSL! http://www.gmx.net/de/go/dsl


From antitron at web.de  Sun Apr 16 18:54:25 2006
From: antitron at web.de (Thomas Egenhofer)
Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 19:54:25 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] another IR chip & heavy simplyfied twister?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1145185201.17793.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
References: <mailman.1.1145185201.17793.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
Message-ID: <1145210066.9758.11.camel@localhost.localdomain>


> I think, the problem with these MAXIM-ICs
> was that you need an external clock-Generator,
> that is synchronized with the Data on RS232.
> And we had no idea how to do it.

??? syncronised?? tell me how you should be able to syncronise a several mhz cristal with 115khz signal.
there is no way!
as far as i understood the whole mechanism it uses the crystal to produce the IrDa signal but not for sync.
so the should work pretty good. after all thats what they are for aren't they 
could imagine its used to count a little and sync the received stuff internally but no need to worry. the ic's should do it.

> But when i think about it, maybe we gave up too early.
well, might be... lets just check it out.


if my twister cut-down is working it would simplify the building process quite a bit.
my next task is checking receiver and transmitter for improvements and simplification (although the receiver seems pretty nice, the transmitter is kinda strange workaround)
the time i get a hold of those maxim pieces i'll give them a try. they could be fine for a 20$ laserpointer link. (something even non-electronik-freaks can build)

well have a nice day! and happy easter. ( or so.. *G*)
greetings to all over the world ( and all people even if you dont celebrate easter. well i dont do but its a day off so its fine)
thommy e

.. keep going everyone. work isnt done yet!



From vojtech.cizinsky at centrum.cz  Mon Apr 17 17:01:03 2006
From: vojtech.cizinsky at centrum.cz (vojtech.cizinsky at centrum.cz)
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 18:01:03 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Prijimace, divne chovani
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1145271600.13662.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
References: <mailman.1.1145271600.13662.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
Message-ID: <200604171801.23196@centrum.cz>

Zdravim, 
Pokousime se vyvijet homemade prijimace na plosnacich (ne SMD). Uz mame kousky co zvladnou 1,5 metru pri cca 60mV. Jenze pouze kdyz jsou prikryte rukou. Pokud clovek sunda ruku ze zadeklovane pocinovane krabicky, funkcnost je ta tam (rssi min. 500mV a vzdalenost jeden metr). Tenhle efekt "prilozene ruky" se nam obcas staval i u hnizd. Nema nekdo napad cim by to mohlo byt? Prodavat s ronjou i cloveka, co by to drzel, neni reseni.

WoiTa



From clock at twibright.com  Mon Apr 17 17:53:20 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 18:53:20 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] nefunkcni RX
In-Reply-To: <1145016203.443f8f8b49656@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
References: <20060414083116.GB25256@kestrel>
	<000501c65f9f$3619ff30$0103450a@Glottis>
	<1145016203.443f8f8b49656@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
Message-ID: <20060417165320.GA23948@kestrel>

On Fri, Apr 14, 2006 at 02:03:23PM +0200, Petr Seliger wrote:
> Solidni prijimac v SMD uz je http://wiki.twibright.com/index.php/RxPcbSeligr
> Jen nejsou lidi aby k tomu udelali navod nebo to prekreslili do toho Clockova
> obskurniho editoru PCB a dodelali navod. Tehlech plosnaku uz je nasazeno kolem
> sta kusu a zadnej problem, krome tech kusu kde jsou BNC konektory a leve ruce
> prehodily kabely a nemeli u twistera pojistku.

Ta Wiki me uz sere. Clovek musi prechazet z jedne wiky na druhou kvuli
bezpecnostnim chybam a ted zase tam lidi pisou spam s nejakejma
viagrama. Ma to smysl vubec zivit dal takovejhle nedomyslenej system?
Kdyz se nejaky nastroj nasazuje, musi prinyst vic uzitku nez kolik je
potreba prace na jeho udrzovani.

CL<
> 
> BTW: kam se z wiki ztracej obrazky?
> 
> > ja nechci rejt ael ze to melo byt v SMD tady prosazujeme snad sto let
> > 
> > glo
> > 
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Karel Kulhavy" <clock at twibright.com>
> > To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
> > Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 10:31 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Ronja] nefunkcni RX
> > 
> > 
> > On Thu, Apr 13, 2006 at 10:20:23PM +0200, Petr Seliger wrote:
> > > Cituji z emailu od Karel Kulhavy <clock at twibright.com>:
> > >
> > > > On Wed, Apr 12, 2006 at 05:57:48PM +0200, Kendy wrote:
> > > > > Na prvni pohled vidim moc dlouhe nohy u vstupu. S tim sem mel dost
> > > > > problemy. Pak sem zacal pajet co nejkratsi, a ty nejkratsi makaji
> > super.
> > > >
> > > > Kde presne u vstupu? Myslis u RX diody?
> > >
> > > Jo, vsechno co visi na nozickach G1 a G2 vstupniho MOSFETu.
> > 
> > Hm, ted vidim ze jeden ten prijimac je sletovanej podle navodu (maly
> > kondenzator u tranzistory) a ten druhy naopak.
> > 
> > Ja to stejne budu muset asi predelat na SMD PCB protoze v tomhle stavu
> > to mozna je prakticky nemozny odrusit. Jestli jo, tak SMD PCB se letuje
> > celkem snadno a rychle a nedaj se tam takovyhle problemy vytvaret.
> > 
> > Letoval jsem s 125W trafopajkou uz i 0605 soucastky a pohoda. Trafopajka
> > zvladne vsechno od nejtiternejsich SMD az po plechovy krabice. Weller?
> > Ee. Na ty trafopajce se cesky inzenyri predvedli, sinus kosinus ctyri
> > piva deskriptyva :) (Akorat ty srouby mely bejt M4 ale to se snadno
> > fixne kdyz se strhnou).
> > 
> > CL<
> > >
> > > > CL<
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Funky napsal(a):
> > > > >
> > > > > > Fotky jsou na http://funky.vserver.cz/RX
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Obe RX jsem delal soucasne, jedno funguje a druhe ne..
> > > > > > Misto koaxu je tam UTP dlouhe cca 50cm
> > > > > > Je mozne ze by to bylo nejakym studenym spojem ?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > zdar
> > > > > > Jindra
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> ------------ P?vodn? zpr?va ------------
> > > > > >> Od: Karel Kulhavy <clock at twibright.com>
> > > > > >> P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] nefunkcni RX
> > > > > >> Datum: 12.4.2006 15:06:24
> > > > > >> ----------------------------------------
> > > > > >> On Wed, Apr 12, 2006 at 12:48:47PM +0200, Funky wrote:
> > > > > >> > zdravim,
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > nefunguje mi RX u ronji tetrapolis, testpointy jsou v priloze,
> > > > muzete
> > > > > >> > nekdo poradit co s tim ?  Je to postavene podle navodu.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> S timahle hodnotama by to melo chodit. Posli fotku.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> CL<
> > > > > >> > diky,Jindra
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Ronja mailing list
> > > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ronja mailing list
> > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ronja mailing list
> > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From clock at twibright.com  Mon Apr 17 20:33:54 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 21:33:54 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Twister&monoflops
In-Reply-To: <1145300518.9840.21.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <1145300518.9840.21.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <20060417193354.GB29582@kestrel>

On Mon, Apr 17, 2006 at 09:01:58PM +0200, Thomas Egenhofer wrote:
> hi there,
> 
> althoug i already wrote to the mailing list i like to tell you directly
> about what i found these days.(and i really need to have a response, it
> wont let me rest else)
> 
> my posts on the mailing list accidently blured into my IrDA stuff but
> that has nothing to to with the monoflops i like use for the twister.
> 
> in case you already read my posts. you already should know that there is
> a fairly easy way to solve the twisters job.
> 2 monoflops (in one 74xx123 ic) 2 AND, 1 OR, 2 negations + the 1mhz

I wanted to use 74xx123 monoflops but didn't because their timing
properties according to the datasheet were not sufficient.

> crystal are enought. + interface ic for ethernet and rx/tx
> (all logic with 2 inputs) -using a full nand technic will change the
> listet parts but that dosent really matter.
> 
> if the original twister doesnt perform any pulse-shapening that should
> be all.
> 
> i still didnt get how the current twister works in detail but as far as
> i can tell my circuit should do more or less the same job.

If you don't know how it works in detail then you can't know if it
does the same job. Logical reasoning "Twister works and my device does
the same as Twister -> my device will work as well" can be used only
with exactly the same function, not with "more or less" the same.

CL<
> 
> i'm courios to find out if my thoughts are correct or if if've made some
> grave-mistake. i'm checking the mail-archive at least once per hour but
> nobody had awnsered jet.
> 
> just give me a short feedback and tell me if its working (theoretically
> of course- no need to test it yet). (ahm,, and please read all of my
> posts, i corrected the circuit i drew in a later post to spare 1
> monoflop and minimise the loss of preamble(to the input-output delay of
> the monoflop- a better ic would result in even less loss) ).
> if it dosen't do the job, could you give me a short info on what the
> twister is exactly doing with. or better what output-signal it produces?
> i really belive that the current desing has lot of potential to be
> simplyfied.
> just in case my stuff is usefull. i'll give the transmitter/receiver a
> try- if you like.
> 
> greetings
> thommy e
> 
> ps: please write me back soon. i can't wait for an awnser....
> ps: ps: if you like some gschem's i'll put them together straight away.


From hollari1 at gmx.at  Mon Apr 17 22:11:31 2006
From: hollari1 at gmx.at (Sigfried Hollrigl)
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 23:11:31 +0200 (MEST)
Subject: [Ronja] another IR chip & heavy simplyfied twister?
References: <mailman.1.1145271600.13662.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
Message-ID: <27786.1145308291@www091.gmx.net>


Now i have got these USB to IrDA Adapters.
But its not so easy to get them working.

I have searched a little bit in Google for
IrDA and Windows2000.
A lot of pages say, that its very easy to
make a Point-To-Point Connection working.

But my first dissapointing was that Windows-
drivers only seem to support 115kBit.

And the other thing is that in Windoof you
can only right-click a file and say "send to IrDA".
And sometimes it works, sometimes not.

This is not what i expected.

In a few days i can test, what these devices say
in Linux.
Hopefully this will be more satifying.

Sigi

-- 
GMX Produkte empfehlen und ganz einfach Geld verdienen!
Satte Provisionen f?r GMX Partner: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/partner


From antitron at web.de  Mon Apr 17 23:08:35 2006
From: antitron at web.de (Thomas Egenhofer)
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 00:08:35 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Twister&monoflops
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1145271600.13662.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
References: <mailman.1.1145271600.13662.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
Message-ID: <1145311715.5352.59.camel@localhost.localdomain>

> > in case you already read my posts. you already should know that there is
> > a fairly easy way to solve the twisters job.
> > 2 monoflops (in one 74xx123 ic) 2 AND, 1 OR, 2 negations + the 1mhz
> 
> I wanted to use 74xx123 monoflops but didn't because their timing
> properties according to the datasheet were not sufficient.

its a relief to see you're alive =)

your completly ,right they arent very precise and not suited to transform pulse-shaping on the actual signal. but by far precise enough to tell wether or not data wants to be transmitted/received.
the thing would still work if their timing would variate from 100ns up to 500ns so even if the have 10% or 20% tollerance, setting them to 250 would be ok.


> If you don't know how it works in detail then you can't know if it
> does the same job. Logical reasoning "Twister works and my device does
> the same as Twister -> my device will work as well" can be used only
> with exactly the same function, not with "more or less" the same.
> 
> CL<

you got me again. but that's why i asked.
all i know is that it stuffs a 1mhz idle signal between the packages and removes it again(at least thats whats in the faq).
for this case i asked you ;) , well my grammar is bad i know...
> > if it dosen't do the job, could you give me a short info on what the
> > twister is exactly doing with. or better what output-signal it produces?

well i really dont like to argue with you wether or not i asked you the correct question. in case i didn't im terribly sorry.

to say it straight.my circuit only stuffs a idle signal inbetween the packages since a manchestercoded signal itself should allow a sensitiv and easy receiver.
and the idle signal keeps the receiver busy with beeing amplifying too much or too less to not bring it self into a state where it amplyfies only noise.

so it most likely doesn't do the same as yours.
i have the slight feeling that yours uses parts of the incomming signal to reconstruct a non-manchaster information and encode it to a standart-infrared-like signal.
i dont think thats it but that's what it looks like to me.well i would be surprised if thats what its doing.

it's not that i dislike you or your work or anything, i just like to understand things and ,if possible improve them.
so if you dont mind. could you please tell me and all others who might be intrested what the twister is doing.
(there is a pretty impressive "how tings work" section for the receiver but i could find anything about twister so far (just a few lines about connectors)).

well thanks in advance.
thommy e.

ps: hey clock? do you have icq?in case you have drop me a line my nr. 129192572 - others are welcome,too. i really like chatting a little since there is lot more stuff which would take ages to discuss via the mailing list.
well actually the last mail you got from me was non-mailing list, too. thought you might get it faster.
and sory for all the trouble i'm causing.



From antitron at web.de  Tue Apr 18 00:11:51 2006
From: antitron at web.de (Thomas Egenhofer)
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 01:11:51 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Monoflopped Twister design-massive simplyfied
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1145271600.13662.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
References: <mailman.1.1145271600.13662.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
Message-ID: <1145315511.5352.90.camel@localhost.localdomain>

well im terrilby sorry to tell you that i made another 2 mistakes.

1st.the circuit mentioned earlier doesn't do the same as the twister is
doing.so even the topic headline wasnt choosen that well (sry didnt
realised this earlyer).

2nd. timing mistake with the monoflops.

the first has to be more than 200ns and the second between 200 and 500
350ns for both would be ok.

the corrected circuit:
http://home.arcor.de/positiveelectron/files/yetanothertwister2.jpg

if the transmitter led can be pushed to work at 20mhz .the circuit might
be intresting. (i think somone mentioned it would be possible to drive
them even faster using current to regulate the brightness in stead of
voltage)

anyone intrested in testing it?

greetings.
thommy
ps:never mind my handwriting and typos...



From seligr at sh.cvut.cz  Tue Apr 18 07:55:05 2006
From: seligr at sh.cvut.cz (Petr Seliger)
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 08:55:05 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Prijimace, divne chovani
In-Reply-To: <200604171801.23196@centrum.cz>
References: <mailman.1.1145271600.13662.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
	<200604171801.23196@centrum.cz>
Message-ID: <1145343305.44448d4948a55@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>

A zkusili jste twister uzemnit? Neco takoveho se me kdysi stavalo taky, ale
stacilo krabice RX a TX polozit na sebe a dosah se zvetsil tak o 10cm.
Otazka je, jestli ma cenu vyvijet plosnak pro dratove soucastky, kdyz uz je
odladeny SMD ktery zvlada 2,5-3,5m na podlaze.

> Zdravim, 
> Pokousime se vyvijet homemade prijimace na plosnacich (ne SMD). Uz mame
> kousky co zvladnou 1,5 metru pri cca 60mV. Jenze pouze kdyz jsou prikryte
> rukou. Pokud clovek sunda ruku ze zadeklovane pocinovane krabicky, funkcnost
> je ta tam (rssi min. 500mV a vzdalenost jeden metr). Tenhle efekt "prilozene
> ruky" se nam obcas staval i u hnizd. Nema nekdo napad cim by to mohlo byt?
> Prodavat s ronjou i cloveka, co by to drzel, neni reseni.
> 
> WoiTa
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 





From clock at twibright.com  Tue Apr 18 10:26:39 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 11:26:39 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Twister&monoflops
In-Reply-To: <1145311715.5352.59.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <mailman.1.1145271600.13662.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
	<1145311715.5352.59.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <20060418092639.GA9868@kestrel.barix.local>

On Tue, Apr 18, 2006 at 12:08:35AM +0200, Thomas Egenhofer wrote:
> > > in case you already read my posts. you already should know that there is
> > > a fairly easy way to solve the twisters job.
> > > 2 monoflops (in one 74xx123 ic) 2 AND, 1 OR, 2 negations + the 1mhz
> > 
> > I wanted to use 74xx123 monoflops but didn't because their timing
> > properties according to the datasheet were not sufficient.
> 
> its a relief to see you're alive =)
> 
> your completly ,right they arent very precise and not suited to transform pulse-shaping on the actual signal. but by far precise enough to tell wether or not data wants to be transmitted/received.
> the thing would still work if their timing would variate from 100ns up to 500ns so even if the have 10% or 20% tollerance, setting them to 250 would be ok.
> 
> 
> > If you don't know how it works in detail then you can't know if it
> > does the same job. Logical reasoning "Twister works and my device does
> > the same as Twister -> my device will work as well" can be used only
> > with exactly the same function, not with "more or less" the same.
> > 
> > CL<
> 
> you got me again. but that's why i asked.
> all i know is that it stuffs a 1mhz idle signal between the packages and removes it again(at least thats whats in the faq).

That's very simplified view. There are more constraints on timing,
robustness against improper frequency and jitter, what exactly happens
on the cut transitions, and the rest dictated by the IEEE. It's
impossible to perfecly fit the IEEE with the current system design so
I took something on the Twister that tries to be as much compliant as
possible. The only incompliance lies in the preamble cutting and is
caused by the fact that link integrity pulses exist on the electrical
wire. To fit the IEEE 100% one would have to basically put a router or
switch into the Twister but that's too demanding for the current time.

> for this case i asked you ;) , well my grammar is bad i know...
> > > if it dosen't do the job, could you give me a short info on what the
> > > twister is exactly doing with. or better what output-signal it produces?
> 
> well i really dont like to argue with you wether or not i asked you the correct question. in case i didn't im terribly sorry.
> 
> to say it straight.my circuit only stuffs a idle signal inbetween the packages since a manchestercoded signal itself should allow a sensitiv and easy receiver.
> and the idle signal keeps the receiver busy with beeing amplifying too much or too less to not bring it self into a state where it amplyfies only noise.
> 
> so it most likely doesn't do the same as yours.
> i have the slight feeling that yours uses parts of the incomming signal to reconstruct a non-manchaster information and encode it to a standart-infrared-like signal.
> i dont think thats it but that's what it looks like to me.well i would be surprised if thats what its doing.

No it's just putting 1MHz there and removing it.

> 
> it's not that i dislike you or your work or anything, i just like to understand things and ,if possible improve them.

If you want to improve Ronja it's probably easiest for you to scan the
website for flaws in the guides or do other bugfixes or draw more
explanatory vector graphics. The electronics design is not easy for
beginners in this field.

CL<

> so if you dont mind. could you please tell me and all others who might be intrested what the twister is doing.
> (there is a pretty impressive "how tings work" section for the receiver but i could find anything about twister so far (just a few lines about connectors)).
> 
> well thanks in advance.
> thommy e.
> 
> ps: hey clock? do you have icq?in case you have drop me a line my nr. 129192572 - others are welcome,too. i really like chatting a little since there is lot more stuff which would take ages to discuss via the mailing list.
> well actually the last mail you got from me was non-mailing list, too. thought you might get it faster.
> and sory for all the trouble i'm causing.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From clock at twibright.com  Tue Apr 18 10:30:20 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 11:30:20 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Monoflopped Twister design-massive simplyfied
In-Reply-To: <1145315511.5352.90.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <mailman.1.1145271600.13662.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
	<1145315511.5352.90.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <20060418093020.GB9868@kestrel.barix.local>

On Tue, Apr 18, 2006 at 01:11:51AM +0200, Thomas Egenhofer wrote:
> well im terrilby sorry to tell you that i made another 2 mistakes.
> 
> 1st.the circuit mentioned earlier doesn't do the same as the twister is
> doing.so even the topic headline wasnt choosen that well (sry didnt
> realised this earlyer).
> 
> 2nd. timing mistake with the monoflops.
> 
> the first has to be more than 200ns and the second between 200 and 500
> 350ns for both would be ok.
> 
> the corrected circuit:
> http://home.arcor.de/positiveelectron/files/yetanothertwister2.jpg

This has an obvious bug that the link integrity impulse causes a glitch
on the output for the optical heads. It doesn't make sense for people
who are too lazy to prove correctness of their circuit to write
suggestions of grossly oversimplified circuits and me playing the game
"can you prove it's crap?" with them. I think I should develop instead
this will actually help people. Your suggestions don't seem to help
anyone at the moment and I don't believe they have a potential to
substantially help at all.

CL<

> 
> if the transmitter led can be pushed to work at 20mhz .the circuit might
> be intresting. (i think somone mentioned it would be possible to drive
> them even faster using current to regulate the brightness in stead of
> voltage)
> 
> anyone intrested in testing it?
> 
> greetings.
> thommy
> ps:never mind my handwriting and typos...
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From ok1000 at orangemail.sk  Tue Apr 18 11:27:01 2006
From: ok1000 at orangemail.sk (ok1000 at orangemail.sk)
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 11:27:01
Subject: [Ronja] Binocular
Message-ID: <20060418112701.C19AC13D85@pwww5>


Hi.

Did anybody try to use binocular not only one lense in receiver part?

Lubo


From kubajz at kbx.cz  Tue Apr 18 12:31:00 2006
From: kubajz at kbx.cz (Jakub Sykora)
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 13:31:00 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Binocular
In-Reply-To: <20060418112701.C19AC13D85@pwww5>
References: <20060418112701.C19AC13D85@pwww5>
Message-ID: <4444CDF4.7090105@kbx.cz>

Did you mean binoculars or a telescope? I don't know how binoculars 
could help...

K

ok1000 na orangemail.sk wrote:
> Hi.
> 
> Did anybody try to use binocular not only one lense in receiver part?
> 
> Lubo
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja

-- 
Jakub S?kora
email: kubajz na kbx.cz       <')
ICQ: 68976632               ( =-
mobil: +420 777 594 201      ''
------------- dal?? ??st ---------------
Netextov? p??loha byla odstran?na...
Jm?no: kubajz.vcf
Typ: text/x-vcard
Velikost: 265 bytes
Popis: [??dn? popis nen? k dispozici]
Url : http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20060418/e7485f69/attachment.vcf 

From antitron at web.de  Tue Apr 18 15:04:38 2006
From: antitron at web.de (Thomas Egenhofer)
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 16:04:38 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Monoflopped Twister design-massive simplyfied
In-Reply-To: <mailman.87.1145354886.22549.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
References: <mailman.87.1145354886.22549.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
Message-ID: <1145369078.10871.33.camel@localhost.localdomain>

> On Tue, Apr 18, 2006 at 01:11:51AM +0200, Thomas Egenhofer wrote:
> > well im terrilby sorry to tell you that i made another 2 mistakes.
> > 
> > 1st.the circuit mentioned earlier doesn't do the same as the twister is
> > doing.so even the topic headline wasnt choosen that well (sry didnt
> > realised this earlyer).
> > 
> > 2nd. timing mistake with the monoflops.
> > 
> > the first has to be more than 200ns and the second between 200 and 500
> > 350ns for both would be ok.
> > 
> > the corrected circuit:
> > http://home.arcor.de/positiveelectron/files/yetanothertwister2.jpg
> 
> This has an obvious bug that the link integrity impulse causes a glitch
> on the output for the optical heads.
you mean the moment it switches back to sending an idle signal after a
package?.thats' right there can occur a short pulse 0 to 500ns.thx for
telling.(if the transmitter monoflop is timed to produce a >100ns longer
output than the receiver one, the pulse wont hurt, receiver would work
it out)
>  It doesn't make sense for people
> who are too lazy to prove correctness of their circuit to write
> suggestions of grossly oversimplified circuits and me playing the game
> "can you prove it's crap?" with them.
its not that i like you to proof my stuff is crap.i just got that idea
and thought it might be usefull or be some kind of inspiration.
>  I think I should develop instead
> this will actually help people. Your suggestions don't seem to help
> anyone at the moment and I don't believe they have a potential to
> substantially help at all.
hey i wont take away your job. if you think it wont work it's ok.
actually thats the feedback i asked for.
if you think so i won't bother you until i have something thats proven
to be useful.
anyway, i'll give it a try later on. in case it's good enough to set up
a real link i'll post results, if not, i'll just shut up =)

well thanks a lot for your opinion and feedback. i'll check things more
carefully in future.

greetings,
thommy



From clock at twibright.com  Tue Apr 18 15:34:02 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 16:34:02 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Monoflopped Twister design-massive simplyfied
In-Reply-To: <1145369078.10871.33.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <mailman.87.1145354886.22549.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
	<1145369078.10871.33.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <20060418143402.GB19523@kestrel.barix.local>

On Tue, Apr 18, 2006 at 04:04:38PM +0200, Thomas Egenhofer wrote:
> > On Tue, Apr 18, 2006 at 01:11:51AM +0200, Thomas Egenhofer wrote:
> > > well im terrilby sorry to tell you that i made another 2 mistakes.
> > > 
> > > 1st.the circuit mentioned earlier doesn't do the same as the twister is
> > > doing.so even the topic headline wasnt choosen that well (sry didnt
> > > realised this earlyer).
> > > 
> > > 2nd. timing mistake with the monoflops.
> > > 
> > > the first has to be more than 200ns and the second between 200 and 500
> > > 350ns for both would be ok.
> > > 
> > > the corrected circuit:
> > > http://home.arcor.de/positiveelectron/files/yetanothertwister2.jpg
> > 
> > This has an obvious bug that the link integrity impulse causes a glitch
> > on the output for the optical heads.
> you mean the moment it switches back to sending an idle signal after a
> package?.thats' right there can occur a short pulse 0 to 500ns.thx for
> telling.(if the transmitter monoflop is timed to produce a >100ns longer
> output than the receiver one, the pulse wont hurt, receiver would work
> it out)
^^^ prove, hehehe ];-D

CL<
> >  It doesn't make sense for people
> > who are too lazy to prove correctness of their circuit to write
> > suggestions of grossly oversimplified circuits and me playing the game
> > "can you prove it's crap?" with them.
> its not that i like you to proof my stuff is crap.i just got that idea
> and thought it might be usefull or be some kind of inspiration.
> >  I think I should develop instead
> > this will actually help people. Your suggestions don't seem to help
> > anyone at the moment and I don't believe they have a potential to
> > substantially help at all.
> hey i wont take away your job. if you think it wont work it's ok.
> actually thats the feedback i asked for.
> if you think so i won't bother you until i have something thats proven
> to be useful.
> anyway, i'll give it a try later on. in case it's good enough to set up
> a real link i'll post results, if not, i'll just shut up =)
> 
> well thanks a lot for your opinion and feedback. i'll check things more
> carefully in future.
> 
> greetings,
> thommy
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From clock at twibright.com  Tue Apr 18 15:35:32 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 16:35:32 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Monoflopped Twister design-massive simplyfied
In-Reply-To: <1145369078.10871.33.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <mailman.87.1145354886.22549.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
	<1145369078.10871.33.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <20060418143532.GC19523@kestrel.barix.local>

On Tue, Apr 18, 2006 at 04:04:38PM +0200, Thomas Egenhofer wrote:
> > On Tue, Apr 18, 2006 at 01:11:51AM +0200, Thomas Egenhofer wrote:
> > > well im terrilby sorry to tell you that i made another 2 mistakes.
> > > 
> > > 1st.the circuit mentioned earlier doesn't do the same as the twister is
> > > doing.so even the topic headline wasnt choosen that well (sry didnt
> > > realised this earlyer).
> > > 
> > > 2nd. timing mistake with the monoflops.
> > > 
> > > the first has to be more than 200ns and the second between 200 and 500
> > > 350ns for both would be ok.
> > > 
> > > the corrected circuit:
> > > http://home.arcor.de/positiveelectron/files/yetanothertwister2.jpg
> > 
> > This has an obvious bug that the link integrity impulse causes a glitch
> > on the output for the optical heads.
> you mean the moment it switches back to sending an idle signal after a
> package?.thats' right there can occur a short pulse 0 to 500ns.thx for
> telling.(if the transmitter monoflop is timed to produce a >100ns longer
> output than the receiver one, the pulse wont hurt, receiver would work
> it out)
> >  It doesn't make sense for people
> > who are too lazy to prove correctness of their circuit to write
> > suggestions of grossly oversimplified circuits and me playing the game
> > "can you prove it's crap?" with them.
> its not that i like you to proof my stuff is crap.i just got that idea
> and thought it might be usefull or be some kind of inspiration.
> >  I think I should develop instead
> > this will actually help people. Your suggestions don't seem to help
> > anyone at the moment and I don't believe they have a potential to
> > substantially help at all.
> hey i wont take away your job. if you think it wont work it's ok.
> actually thats the feedback i asked for.
> if you think so i won't bother you until i have something thats proven
> to be useful.
> anyway, i'll give it a try later on. in case it's good enough to set up
> a real link i'll post results, if not, i'll just shut up =)

That's not enough. If it corrupts one packet in a billion because of a bug
that happens only with low probability (time position of something
hitting time position of something else), I won't put it into Ronja.
I don't want to put crap into Ronja.

CL<
> 
> well thanks a lot for your opinion and feedback. i'll check things more
> carefully in future.
> 
> greetings,
> thommy
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From antitron at web.de  Thu Apr 20 14:57:56 2006
From: antitron at web.de (Thomas Egenhofer)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 15:57:56 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Monoflopped Twister design-massive simplyfied
In-Reply-To: <mailman.87.1145354886.22549.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
References: <mailman.87.1145354886.22549.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
Message-ID: <1145541477.4262.33.camel@localhost.localdomain>

hi again,

im terribly sorry to distrubt your peace again.. but ...

> > > I wanted to use 74xx123 monoflops but didn't because their timing
> > > properties according to the datasheet were not sufficient.

jeah you didn't use 74xx123 monoflops, you (or one of the guys you're
working with) used schmidtriggers and rc combinatoins as monoflops in
the AUI-Forte. my 74xx123 where a suggestion for monoflops in general.
bdw there is a MOS series f?r high-precision timing.
but in the end the basic idea of my interface and the AUI-Forte
interface is pretty much the same. why did you tell me it wouldn't work?
just because of the 74xx123??
even your timings seems to be close to my ideas.
you more or less added the AUI<->TTL (i still had to add) and did a few
"real things" correction like 1/16 clock divider due to oszillator
inacuracy of 40%-60% edge shift and such stuff (or that would be my
guess)... 
dont blame me for lack of practical knowledge, i didnt even own a usable
oscilloscope-so no way to test anything above 20khz (soundcard).
you really could've told me something like that...

> That's very simplified view. There are more constraints on timing,
> robustness against improper frequency and jitter, what exactly happens
> on the cut transitions, and the rest dictated by the IEEE. It's
> impossible to perfecly fit the IEEE with the current system design so
> I took something on the Twister that tries to be as much compliant as
> possible. The only incompliance lies in the preamble cutting and is
> caused by the fact that link integrity pulses exist on the electrical
> wire. To fit the IEEE 100% one would have to basically put a router or
> switch into the Twister but that's too demanding for the current time.

well ok IEEE standart. you shure it wont work? a preamble loss of 80ns
is not much. and with better monoflops even less.
why didnt you use the same as in the AUI?


> No it's just putting 1MHz there and removing it.

well thats good to hear... everything else would've been quite strange.
i needed less than 2minutes to figure out what AUI-Forte is doing... but
twisters serial/paralell stuff just wont get into my head. 

i really dont know how you can tell it wont work.
after all it was an idea and not a finished and tested design. like you
said it wouldn't work out the way it is but the idea seems to work in
AUI-forte.

well have i nice day,
thommy e



From clock at twibright.com  Mon Apr 24 10:01:56 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 11:01:56 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Denatured alcohol vs. isopropyl
Message-ID: <20060424090156.GA1006@kestrel.barix.local>

Does anyone have a confirmation that denatured alcohol can damage electronics
when used for rinsing PCB from colophonium and that isopropyl alcohol
should be used instead? Denatured alcohol == methylated spirit.

Muze nekdo potvrdit zda denaturovany alkohol by se nemel pouzivat na
oplachovani tistaku od kalafuny a ze by se mel pouzivat jinak
izopropyl? Jinak pripisu do navodu denaturak protoze se snadno shani a
je levnej.

CL<


From glo at glottis.net  Mon Apr 24 11:05:49 2006
From: glo at glottis.net (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Michal_Malusek?=)
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 12:05:49 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Denatured alcohol vs. isopropyl
References: <20060424090156.GA1006@kestrel.barix.local>
Message-ID: <000501c66786$a9cdc030$0103450a@Glottis>

muze, ve fabrikach se pouziva jedine izopropyl, rikali nam to i na fyzice.

lih ma moc malou molekulu a muze se dostat kolem pinu do pouzdra, muze. u
jedne desky to je asi jedno. kdyz nokia seka miliony mobilu a kazdej tisicej
by nefungoval kvuli znicenemu io, to si dovlit nemuzou. kazdopadne to muze
zpusobit nahodou nefunkcnost. kor u twistera kde je snad 15 integracu.

izo se shani naprosto v pohode. maj to v gm. kdyz uz si clovek objednava
soucastky muze si objednat i litr toho humusu. maj to vsude kde prodava
chemii na elektro.

Glo

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Karel Kulhavy" <clock na twibright.com>
To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja na lists.pointless.net>
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 11:01 AM
Subject: [Ronja] Denatured alcohol vs. isopropyl


> Does anyone have a confirmation that denatured alcohol can damage
electronics
> when used for rinsing PCB from colophonium and that isopropyl alcohol
> should be used instead? Denatured alcohol == methylated spirit.
>
> Muze nekdo potvrdit zda denaturovany alkohol by se nemel pouzivat na
> oplachovani tistaku od kalafuny a ze by se mel pouzivat jinak
> izopropyl? Jinak pripisu do navodu denaturak protoze se snadno shani a
> je levnej.
>
> CL<
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>



From wacx at email.cz  Mon Apr 24 12:17:15 2006
From: wacx at email.cz (WaCX)
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 13:17:15 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Denatured alcohol vs. isopropyl
References: <20060424090156.GA1006@kestrel.barix.local>
Message-ID: <001001c66790$a4ac3aa0$0201a8c0@wacxnote>

O tomhle nic nevim ale izopropylalk. maji ve firme hichem ktera sidli v 
arealu VU Bechovice kde mam pocit sidli i Pragoboard:-), jinak ho maji i v 
drogerii v centru prahy ul.Zlatnicka.
wacx
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Karel Kulhavy" <clock at twibright.com>
To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 11:01 AM
Subject: [Ronja] Denatured alcohol vs. isopropyl


> Does anyone have a confirmation that denatured alcohol can damage 
> electronics
> when used for rinsing PCB from colophonium and that isopropyl alcohol
> should be used instead? Denatured alcohol == methylated spirit.
>
> Muze nekdo potvrdit zda denaturovany alkohol by se nemel pouzivat na
> oplachovani tistaku od kalafuny a ze by se mel pouzivat jinak
> izopropyl? Jinak pripisu do navodu denaturak protoze se snadno shani a
> je levnej.
>
> CL<
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja 



From ladmanj at volny.cz  Mon Apr 24 12:57:54 2006
From: ladmanj at volny.cz (Jakub Ladman)
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 13:57:54 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Denatured alcohol vs. isopropyl
In-Reply-To: <20060424090156.GA1006@kestrel.barix.local>
References: <20060424090156.GA1006@kestrel.barix.local>
Message-ID: <200604241357.55170.ladmanj@volny.cz>

I have heard that alcohol have too small molecules and it acts capillary into 
integrated circuits packages.
Jakub

Dne po 24. dubna 2006 11:01 Karel Kulhavy napsal(a):
> Does anyone have a confirmation that denatured alcohol can damage
> electronics when used for rinsing PCB from colophonium and that isopropyl
> alcohol should be used instead? Denatured alcohol == methylated spirit.
>
> Muze nekdo potvrdit zda denaturovany alkohol by se nemel pouzivat na
> oplachovani tistaku od kalafuny a ze by se mel pouzivat jinak
> izopropyl? Jinak pripisu do navodu denaturak protoze se snadno shani a
> je levnej.
>
> CL<
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From arunk at speedpost.net  Mon Apr 24 13:59:13 2006
From: arunk at speedpost.net (Arun Krishnan)
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 18:29:13 +0530
Subject: [Ronja] Denatured alcohol vs. isopropyl
In-Reply-To: <20060424090156.GA1006@kestrel.barix.local>
References: <20060424090156.GA1006@kestrel.barix.local>
Message-ID: <1145883553.3009.259779249@webmail.messagingengine.com>

Isopropyl alcohol is the preferred solvent for electronics use in all
the labs (commercial as well as educational) I've seen.

With Best Regards,
Arun


----- Original message -----
From: "Karel Kulhavy" <clock at twibright.com>
To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 11:01:56 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Denatured alcohol vs. isopropyl

Does anyone have a confirmation that denatured alcohol can damage
electronics
when used for rinsing PCB from colophonium and that isopropyl alcohol
should be used instead? Denatured alcohol == methylated spirit.

Muze nekdo potvrdit zda denaturovany alkohol by se nemel pouzivat na
oplachovani tistaku od kalafuny a ze by se mel pouzivat jinak
izopropyl? Jinak pripisu do navodu denaturak protoze se snadno shani a
je levnej.

CL<

_______________________________________________
Ronja mailing list
Ronja at lists.pointless.net
http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From kucera_jiri at volny.cz  Mon Apr 24 16:08:38 2006
From: kucera_jiri at volny.cz (Jiri Kucera)
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 17:08:38 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Denatured alcohol vs. isopropyl
In-Reply-To: <20060424090156.GA1006@kestrel.barix.local>
Message-ID: <MFEBKHPDNDJBNFMLEMJEIEFLCCAA.kucera_jiri@volny.cz>

Pri osazovani plosnych spoju na sklad, zjistili pri cisteni denaturakem, ze
po pul roce byly nefunkcni IO vlivem vzlinani do cipu. Pri pouzivani
izopropylu to bylo v poradku.

-----Original Message-----
From: ronja-bounces+kucera_jiri=volny.cz na lists.pointless.net
[mailto:ronja-bounces+kucera_jiri=volny.cz na lists.pointless.net]On Behalf Of
Karel Kulhavy
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 11:02 AM
To: Twibright Ronja
Subject: [Ronja] Denatured alcohol vs. isopropyl


Does anyone have a confirmation that denatured alcohol can damage
electronics
when used for rinsing PCB from colophonium and that isopropyl alcohol
should be used instead? Denatured alcohol == methylated spirit.

Muze nekdo potvrdit zda denaturovany alkohol by se nemel pouzivat na
oplachovani tistaku od kalafuny a ze by se mel pouzivat jinak
izopropyl? Jinak pripisu do navodu denaturak protoze se snadno shani a
je levnej.

CL<

_______________________________________________
Ronja mailing list
Ronja na lists.pointless.net
http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


__________ Informace od NOD32 1.1454 (20060321) __________

Tato zprava byla proverena antivirovym systemem NOD32.
http://www.nod32.cz




From seligr at sh.cvut.cz  Tue Apr 25 07:34:08 2006
From: seligr at sh.cvut.cz (Petr Seliger)
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 08:34:08 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Denatured alcohol vs. isopropyl
In-Reply-To: <20060424090156.GA1006@kestrel.barix.local>
References: <20060424090156.GA1006@kestrel.barix.local>
Message-ID: <1145946847.444dc2e006578@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>

Me to prijde jako blbost. Naprosta vetsina IO je pasivovana vrstvickou oxidu
nebo nitridu takze sanci proniknout ma tak vodik...
Na druhe strane denaturacni primes (nemusi tam byt jen benzin) by mohla zpusobit
korozi privodu v pripade "ekologickych" pouzder z podradnych plastu.
Zatim je jiste jen to ze pokud se nesetri kalafunou tak po oplachnuti lihem
zustava tenka vrstvicka kalafuny na kterou se vaze vlhkost a vyrazne se zvysi
vodivost povrchu. To vadi velmi na desce prijimace. Izopropyl kalafunu rozpusti
a odplavi vyrazne lepe.
No uvidime, cast RX na plosnaku jsem koupal cca pred rokem v lihu a zatim jedou
bez nejakych problemu.

> Does anyone have a confirmation that denatured alcohol can damage
> electronics
> when used for rinsing PCB from colophonium and that isopropyl alcohol
> should be used instead? Denatured alcohol == methylated spirit.
> 
> Muze nekdo potvrdit zda denaturovany alkohol by se nemel pouzivat na
> oplachovani tistaku od kalafuny a ze by se mel pouzivat jinak
> izopropyl? Jinak pripisu do navodu denaturak protoze se snadno shani a
> je levnej.
> 
> CL<
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 





From clock at twibright.com  Tue Apr 25 08:29:02 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 09:29:02 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Denatured alcohol vs. isopropyl
In-Reply-To: <MFEBKHPDNDJBNFMLEMJEIEFLCCAA.kucera_jiri@volny.cz>
References: <20060424090156.GA1006@kestrel.barix.local>
	<MFEBKHPDNDJBNFMLEMJEIEFLCCAA.kucera_jiri@volny.cz>
Message-ID: <20060425072902.GB10510@kestrel.barix.local>

On Mon, Apr 24, 2006 at 05:08:38PM +0200, Jiri Kucera wrote:
> Pri osazovani plosnych spoju na sklad, zjistili pri cisteni denaturakem, ze
> po pul roce byly nefunkcni IO vlivem vzlinani do cipu. Pri pouzivani
> izopropylu to bylo v poradku.

Jsou nejake blizsi detaily podle kterych se da overit ze to je skutecne
vysledek konkretniho experimentu a neni to tradovane z neznameho zdroje?
Informace se casto vicenasobnym opisovanim zkresli.

CL<


> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ronja-bounces+kucera_jiri=volny.cz at lists.pointless.net
> [mailto:ronja-bounces+kucera_jiri=volny.cz at lists.pointless.net]On Behalf Of
> Karel Kulhavy
> Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 11:02 AM
> To: Twibright Ronja
> Subject: [Ronja] Denatured alcohol vs. isopropyl
> 
> 
> Does anyone have a confirmation that denatured alcohol can damage
> electronics
> when used for rinsing PCB from colophonium and that isopropyl alcohol
> should be used instead? Denatured alcohol == methylated spirit.
> 
> Muze nekdo potvrdit zda denaturovany alkohol by se nemel pouzivat na
> oplachovani tistaku od kalafuny a ze by se mel pouzivat jinak
> izopropyl? Jinak pripisu do navodu denaturak protoze se snadno shani a
> je levnej.
> 
> CL<
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 
> 
> __________ Informace od NOD32 1.1454 (20060321) __________
> 
> Tato zprava byla proverena antivirovym systemem NOD32.
> http://www.nod32.cz
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From clock at twibright.com  Tue Apr 25 08:42:45 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 09:42:45 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Denatured alcohol vs. isopropyl
In-Reply-To: <001001c66790$a4ac3aa0$0201a8c0@wacxnote>
References: <20060424090156.GA1006@kestrel.barix.local>
	<001001c66790$a4ac3aa0$0201a8c0@wacxnote>
Message-ID: <20060425074245.GE10510@kestrel.barix.local>

On Mon, Apr 24, 2006 at 01:17:15PM +0200, WaCX wrote:
> O tomhle nic nevim ale izopropylalk. maji ve firme hichem ktera sidli v 
> arealu VU Bechovice kde mam pocit sidli i Pragoboard:-), jinak ho maji i v 
> drogerii v centru prahy ul.Zlatnicka.

A je nejak vyrazne drazsi nez obyc alkohol?

Nekdo tu tvrdil ze ten alkohol vzlina ale on ten alkohol je dost
tekavej - tak to by mel zase promptne vyvzlinat ven a odparit se, ne?

Jak se zjistilo ze poskozeni svabu je vzlinanim alkoholu?

Voda ma jeste mensi molekuly nez ethylalkohol a tudiz kde vzlina
alkohol, i voda by mela vzlinat. Jak muze alkohol poskodit cip svou
pouhou pritomnosti? Slysel jsem o poskozeni sodikovymi ionty ktere jsou
pry rozpustne v SiO2 a migruji v nem a zmeni vlastnosti tranzistoru,
ale jak muze alkohol poskodit?

CL<

> wacx
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Karel Kulhavy" <clock at twibright.com>
> To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
> Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 11:01 AM
> Subject: [Ronja] Denatured alcohol vs. isopropyl
> 
> 
> > Does anyone have a confirmation that denatured alcohol can damage 
> > electronics
> > when used for rinsing PCB from colophonium and that isopropyl alcohol
> > should be used instead? Denatured alcohol == methylated spirit.
> >
> > Muze nekdo potvrdit zda denaturovany alkohol by se nemel pouzivat na
> > oplachovani tistaku od kalafuny a ze by se mel pouzivat jinak
> > izopropyl? Jinak pripisu do navodu denaturak protoze se snadno shani a
> > je levnej.
> >
> > CL<
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ronja mailing list
> > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From glo at glottis.net  Tue Apr 25 10:38:21 2006
From: glo at glottis.net (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Michal_Malusek?=)
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 11:38:21 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Denatured alcohol vs. isopropyl
References: <20060424090156.GA1006@kestrel.barix.local><001001c66790$a4ac3aa0$0201a8c0@wacxnote>
	<20060425074245.GE10510@kestrel.barix.local>
Message-ID: <000901c6684b$fde50b40$0103450a@Glottis>

jestli nejde o to ze lih nebo nejaka primes dokaze kontaminovat a
znehodnotit chip jako to udela treba med. at uz izolacni vrstvy,
nakontaktovani nebo kremik. ja se na to zeptam odborniku ve skole, zajima me
to. voda bude neco jineho, ma vysoke povrchove napeti a neni tak tekava, to
by si to tam asi musel mit pod tlakem nebo v pare.

glo

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Karel Kulhavy" <clock na twibright.com>
To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja na lists.pointless.net>
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 9:42 AM
Subject: Re: [Ronja] Denatured alcohol vs. isopropyl


> On Mon, Apr 24, 2006 at 01:17:15PM +0200, WaCX wrote:
> > O tomhle nic nevim ale izopropylalk. maji ve firme hichem ktera sidli v
> > arealu VU Bechovice kde mam pocit sidli i Pragoboard:-), jinak ho maji i
v
> > drogerii v centru prahy ul.Zlatnicka.
>
> A je nejak vyrazne drazsi nez obyc alkohol?
>
> Nekdo tu tvrdil ze ten alkohol vzlina ale on ten alkohol je dost
> tekavej - tak to by mel zase promptne vyvzlinat ven a odparit se, ne?
>
> Jak se zjistilo ze poskozeni svabu je vzlinanim alkoholu?
>
> Voda ma jeste mensi molekuly nez ethylalkohol a tudiz kde vzlina
> alkohol, i voda by mela vzlinat. Jak muze alkohol poskodit cip svou
> pouhou pritomnosti? Slysel jsem o poskozeni sodikovymi ionty ktere jsou
> pry rozpustne v SiO2 a migruji v nem a zmeni vlastnosti tranzistoru,
> ale jak muze alkohol poskodit?
>
> CL<
>
> > wacx
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Karel Kulhavy" <clock na twibright.com>
> > To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja na lists.pointless.net>
> > Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 11:01 AM
> > Subject: [Ronja] Denatured alcohol vs. isopropyl
> >
> >
> > > Does anyone have a confirmation that denatured alcohol can damage
> > > electronics
> > > when used for rinsing PCB from colophonium and that isopropyl alcohol
> > > should be used instead? Denatured alcohol == methylated spirit.
> > >
> > > Muze nekdo potvrdit zda denaturovany alkohol by se nemel pouzivat na
> > > oplachovani tistaku od kalafuny a ze by se mel pouzivat jinak
> > > izopropyl? Jinak pripisu do navodu denaturak protoze se snadno shani a
> > > je levnej.
> > >
> > > CL<
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Ronja mailing list
> > > Ronja na lists.pointless.net
> > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ronja mailing list
> > Ronja na lists.pointless.net
> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>



From kubajz at kbx.cz  Tue Apr 25 11:56:19 2006
From: kubajz at kbx.cz (Jakub Sykora)
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 12:56:19 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Denatured alcohol vs. isopropyl
In-Reply-To: <20060425074245.GE10510@kestrel.barix.local>
References: <20060424090156.GA1006@kestrel.barix.local>	<001001c66790$a4ac3aa0$0201a8c0@wacxnote>
	<20060425074245.GE10510@kestrel.barix.local>
Message-ID: <444E0053.2040901@kbx.cz>

IMO ethanol bude snadneji reagovat se vsim, protoze ma nizsi teplotu 
varu a dalece jednodussi strukturu. Jinak v chemickych provozech se jako 
polarni rozpoustedlo zasadne pouziva isopropanol, protoze tolik neteka - 
ve velkych kvantech je to asi pak dost nebezpecny. Znamy - chemik - to 
pouziva treba do ostrikovacu, protoze rika, ze to cisti daleko lip nez 
lih a ze jediny duvod, proc se do kapalin do ostrikovacu dava lih je 
ten, ze je o neco levnejsi a ze to ty okna celkem taky umeje.

K

Karel Kulhavy wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 24, 2006 at 01:17:15PM +0200, WaCX wrote:
> 
>>O tomhle nic nevim ale izopropylalk. maji ve firme hichem ktera sidli v 
>>arealu VU Bechovice kde mam pocit sidli i Pragoboard:-), jinak ho maji i v 
>>drogerii v centru prahy ul.Zlatnicka.
> 
> 
> A je nejak vyrazne drazsi nez obyc alkohol?
> 
> Nekdo tu tvrdil ze ten alkohol vzlina ale on ten alkohol je dost
> tekavej - tak to by mel zase promptne vyvzlinat ven a odparit se, ne?
> 
> Jak se zjistilo ze poskozeni svabu je vzlinanim alkoholu?
> 
> Voda ma jeste mensi molekuly nez ethylalkohol a tudiz kde vzlina
> alkohol, i voda by mela vzlinat. Jak muze alkohol poskodit cip svou
> pouhou pritomnosti? Slysel jsem o poskozeni sodikovymi ionty ktere jsou
> pry rozpustne v SiO2 a migruji v nem a zmeni vlastnosti tranzistoru,
> ale jak muze alkohol poskodit?
> 
> CL<
> 
>>wacx
>>----- Original Message ----- 
>>From: "Karel Kulhavy" <clock na twibright.com>
>>To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja na lists.pointless.net>
>>Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 11:01 AM
>>Subject: [Ronja] Denatured alcohol vs. isopropyl
>>
>>
>>
>>>Does anyone have a confirmation that denatured alcohol can damage 
>>>electronics
>>>when used for rinsing PCB from colophonium and that isopropyl alcohol
>>>should be used instead? Denatured alcohol == methylated spirit.
>>>
>>>Muze nekdo potvrdit zda denaturovany alkohol by se nemel pouzivat na
>>>oplachovani tistaku od kalafuny a ze by se mel pouzivat jinak
>>>izopropyl? Jinak pripisu do navodu denaturak protoze se snadno shani a
>>>je levnej.
>>>
>>>CL<
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Ronja mailing list
>>>Ronja na lists.pointless.net
>>>http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja 
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Ronja mailing list
>>Ronja na lists.pointless.net
>>http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja

-- 
Jakub S?kora
email: kubajz na kbx.cz       <')
ICQ: 68976632               ( =-
mobil: +420 777 594 201      ''
------------- dal?? ??st ---------------
Netextov? p??loha byla odstran?na...
Jm?no: kubajz.vcf
Typ: text/x-vcard
Velikost: 265 bytes
Popis: [??dn? popis nen? k dispozici]
Url : http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20060425/7c6ac3a4/attachment-0001.vcf 

From ladmanj at volny.cz  Tue Apr 25 12:31:36 2006
From: ladmanj at volny.cz (Jakub Ladman)
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 13:31:36 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Denatured alcohol vs. isopropyl
In-Reply-To: <20060425074245.GE10510@kestrel.barix.local>
References: <20060424090156.GA1006@kestrel.barix.local>
	<001001c66790$a4ac3aa0$0201a8c0@wacxnote>
	<20060425074245.GE10510@kestrel.barix.local>
Message-ID: <200604251331.37116.ladmanj@volny.cz>

Zadny vedecky pojednani jak to vlastne je s tim lihem jsem necetl, ale protoze 
to ke mne prislom z duveryhodnych zdroju, tak se tim ridim.
Ostatne podle me zkusenosti isopropyl cisti lepe nez lih.
Drazsi je ale ne nijak zavratne.
Ja jsem si ted nechaval kupovat litr do prace a poilal jsem tady kolegu do 
zlatnicky do drogerie, protoze tam byva levnejsi, ale kolega byl linej a 
dotahl ho z GM. Tam je asi za kilo, ale presne nevim. 
Jakub Ladman

Dne ?t 25. dubna 2006 09:42 Karel Kulhavy napsal(a):
> On Mon, Apr 24, 2006 at 01:17:15PM +0200, WaCX wrote:
> > O tomhle nic nevim ale izopropylalk. maji ve firme hichem ktera sidli v
> > arealu VU Bechovice kde mam pocit sidli i Pragoboard:-), jinak ho maji i
> > v drogerii v centru prahy ul.Zlatnicka.
>
> A je nejak vyrazne drazsi nez obyc alkohol?
>
> Nekdo tu tvrdil ze ten alkohol vzlina ale on ten alkohol je dost
> tekavej - tak to by mel zase promptne vyvzlinat ven a odparit se, ne?
>
> Jak se zjistilo ze poskozeni svabu je vzlinanim alkoholu?
>
> Voda ma jeste mensi molekuly nez ethylalkohol a tudiz kde vzlina
> alkohol, i voda by mela vzlinat. Jak muze alkohol poskodit cip svou
> pouhou pritomnosti? Slysel jsem o poskozeni sodikovymi ionty ktere jsou
> pry rozpustne v SiO2 a migruji v nem a zmeni vlastnosti tranzistoru,
> ale jak muze alkohol poskodit?
>
> CL<
>
> > wacx
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Karel Kulhavy" <clock at twibright.com>
> > To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
> > Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 11:01 AM
> > Subject: [Ronja] Denatured alcohol vs. isopropyl
> >
> > > Does anyone have a confirmation that denatured alcohol can damage
> > > electronics
> > > when used for rinsing PCB from colophonium and that isopropyl alcohol
> > > should be used instead? Denatured alcohol == methylated spirit.
> > >
> > > Muze nekdo potvrdit zda denaturovany alkohol by se nemel pouzivat na
> > > oplachovani tistaku od kalafuny a ze by se mel pouzivat jinak
> > > izopropyl? Jinak pripisu do navodu denaturak protoze se snadno shani a
> > > je levnej.
> > >
> > > CL<
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Ronja mailing list
> > > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ronja mailing list
> > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From seligr at sh.cvut.cz  Tue Apr 25 12:43:38 2006
From: seligr at sh.cvut.cz (Petr Seliger)
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 13:43:38 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Denatured alcohol vs. isopropyl
In-Reply-To: <20060425074245.GE10510@kestrel.barix.local>
References: <20060424090156.GA1006@kestrel.barix.local>
	<001001c66790$a4ac3aa0$0201a8c0@wacxnote>
	<20060425074245.GE10510@kestrel.barix.local>
Message-ID: <1145965418.444e0b6abd1fe@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>

Cituji z emailu od Karel Kulhavy <clock at twibright.com>:

> On Mon, Apr 24, 2006 at 01:17:15PM +0200, WaCX wrote:
> > O tomhle nic nevim ale izopropylalk. maji ve firme hichem ktera sidli v 
> > arealu VU Bechovice kde mam pocit sidli i Pragoboard:-), jinak ho maji i v
> 
> > drogerii v centru prahy ul.Zlatnicka.
> 
> A je nejak vyrazne drazsi nez obyc alkohol?
> 

Podle ceniku Zlatnicke z konce minuleho roku izopropyl 900ml 92,-
GES 1l 187,50
GM 1l 195,-
otazka je cistota toho ze zlatnicke.

> Nekdo tu tvrdil ze ten alkohol vzlina ale on ten alkohol je dost
> tekavej - tak to by mel zase promptne vyvzlinat ven a odparit se, ne?
> 

Ono je mozny ze izopropylove pary se hure zapaluji a navic lepe myje, takze se
mu dava prednost. Co jsme zkouseli tohle
http://trubky.katka.biz/SLEHA-pretest.avi tak na lihove pary to funguje na smes
1/3izopropyl + 2/3lih uz to skoro nefunguje a na cisty izpropyl to nefunguje vubec.

> Jak se zjistilo ze poskozeni svabu je vzlinanim alkoholu?
> 
> Voda ma jeste mensi molekuly nez ethylalkohol a tudiz kde vzlina
> alkohol, i voda by mela vzlinat. Jak muze alkohol poskodit cip svou
> pouhou pritomnosti? Slysel jsem o poskozeni sodikovymi ionty ktere jsou
> pry rozpustne v SiO2 a migruji v nem a zmeni vlastnosti tranzistoru,
> ale jak muze alkohol poskodit?
> 
> CL<
> 
> > wacx
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Karel Kulhavy" <clock at twibright.com>
> > To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
> > Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 11:01 AM
> > Subject: [Ronja] Denatured alcohol vs. isopropyl
> > 
> > 
> > > Does anyone have a confirmation that denatured alcohol can damage 
> > > electronics
> > > when used for rinsing PCB from colophonium and that isopropyl alcohol
> > > should be used instead? Denatured alcohol == methylated spirit.
> > >
> > > Muze nekdo potvrdit zda denaturovany alkohol by se nemel pouzivat na
> > > oplachovani tistaku od kalafuny a ze by se mel pouzivat jinak
> > > izopropyl? Jinak pripisu do navodu denaturak protoze se snadno shani a
> > > je levnej.
> > >
> > > CL<
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Ronja mailing list
> > > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ronja mailing list
> > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 





From wacx at email.cz  Tue Apr 25 17:29:23 2006
From: wacx at email.cz (WaCX)
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 18:29:23 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Denatured alcohol vs. isopropyl
References: <20060424090156.GA1006@kestrel.barix.local><001001c66790$a4ac3aa0$0201a8c0@wacxnote>
	<20060425074245.GE10510@kestrel.barix.local>
Message-ID: <003f01c66885$69b1d900$0201a8c0@wacxnote>

jestli si spravne pamatuju, tak stal 70-80kc/litr, ale o problemech s IO nic 
nevim, ja ho pouzivam na cisteni horaku COcka.
wacx
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Karel Kulhavy" <clock at twibright.com>
To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 9:42 AM
Subject: Re: [Ronja] Denatured alcohol vs. isopropyl


> On Mon, Apr 24, 2006 at 01:17:15PM +0200, WaCX wrote:
>> O tomhle nic nevim ale izopropylalk. maji ve firme hichem ktera sidli v
>> arealu VU Bechovice kde mam pocit sidli i Pragoboard:-), jinak ho maji i 
>> v
>> drogerii v centru prahy ul.Zlatnicka.
>
> A je nejak vyrazne drazsi nez obyc alkohol?
>
> Nekdo tu tvrdil ze ten alkohol vzlina ale on ten alkohol je dost
> tekavej - tak to by mel zase promptne vyvzlinat ven a odparit se, ne?
>
> Jak se zjistilo ze poskozeni svabu je vzlinanim alkoholu?
>
> Voda ma jeste mensi molekuly nez ethylalkohol a tudiz kde vzlina
> alkohol, i voda by mela vzlinat. Jak muze alkohol poskodit cip svou
> pouhou pritomnosti? Slysel jsem o poskozeni sodikovymi ionty ktere jsou
> pry rozpustne v SiO2 a migruji v nem a zmeni vlastnosti tranzistoru,
> ale jak muze alkohol poskodit?
>
> CL<
>
>> wacx
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Karel Kulhavy" <clock at twibright.com>
>> To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
>> Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 11:01 AM
>> Subject: [Ronja] Denatured alcohol vs. isopropyl
>>
>>
>> > Does anyone have a confirmation that denatured alcohol can damage
>> > electronics
>> > when used for rinsing PCB from colophonium and that isopropyl alcohol
>> > should be used instead? Denatured alcohol == methylated spirit.
>> >
>> > Muze nekdo potvrdit zda denaturovany alkohol by se nemel pouzivat na
>> > oplachovani tistaku od kalafuny a ze by se mel pouzivat jinak
>> > izopropyl? Jinak pripisu do navodu denaturak protoze se snadno shani a
>> > je levnej.
>> >
>> > CL<
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Ronja mailing list
>> > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
>> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ronja mailing list
>> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja 



From quintusmurray at yahoo.com  Tue Apr 25 18:32:57 2006
From: quintusmurray at yahoo.com (Quintus Murray)
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 10:32:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Ronja] modifing the ronja source code
In-Reply-To: <mailman.444.1145962616.22549.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
Message-ID: <20060425173257.48730.qmail@web53410.mail.yahoo.com>

so I would like to know if I can use the open-source code of the ronja to use it as a wi-fi access point???? or share it's internet and be used as an ethernet switch to connect to a supernode for combined bandwidth???? plus if yes what devices do I need to use the ronja as an 802.11N or G access point or AP/router?????

		
---------------------------------
How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger?s low  PC-to-Phone call rates.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20060425/743618a0/attachment.html 

From kubajz at kbx.cz  Tue Apr 25 19:10:48 2006
From: kubajz at kbx.cz (Jakub Sykora)
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 20:10:48 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] modifing the ronja source code
In-Reply-To: <20060425173257.48730.qmail@web53410.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20060425173257.48730.qmail@web53410.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <444E6628.4080807@kbx.cz>

btw: How old are You Quintus? I am 23 and it is obvious to me, that 
ronja design is HARDWARE design and not a software one.
So the answer is YES - you can use it this way, if you can twist Ronja 
design to Access Point - When you are finished post us some photos - I 
am really wondering, how can Ronja design can act as an access point. I 
always thought that small divergence of the beam makes this impossible...
The next issue is, that 802.11n is not standardized yet...

Dela si z nas porad fakt prdel, nebo to mysli vazne? Skoro zacinam 
premyslet o tom, jestli to neni automat postavenej na nekolika neuronech...

K

Quintus Murray wrote:
> so I would like to know if I can use the open-source code of the ronja 
> to use it as a wi-fi access point???? or share it's internet and be used 
> as an ethernet switch to connect to a supernode for combined 
> bandwidth???? plus if yes what devices do I need to use the ronja as an 
> 802.11N or G access point or AP/router?????
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger???s low PC-to-Phone call 
> rates. 
> <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail_us/taglines/postman8/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=39663/*http://voice.yahoo.com>
> 
> 
>  <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail_us/taglines/postman8/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=39663/*http://voice.yahoo.com>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>  <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail_us/taglines/postman8/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=39663/*http://voice.yahoo.com>

-- 
Jakub S??kora
email: kubajz na kbx.cz       <')
ICQ: 68976632               ( =-
mobil: +420 777 594 201      ''
------------- dal?? ??st ---------------
Netextov??? p??????loha byla odstran???na...
Jm???no: kubajz.vcf
Typ: text/x-vcard
Velikost: 274 bytes
Popis: [??????dn??? popis nen??? k dispozici]
Url : http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20060425/21ccd895/attachment.vcf 

From kucera_jiri at volny.cz  Tue Apr 25 19:22:17 2006
From: kucera_jiri at volny.cz (Jiri Kucera)
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 20:22:17 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Denatured alcohol vs. isopropyl
In-Reply-To: <200604251331.37116.ladmanj@volny.cz>
Message-ID: <MFEBKHPDNDJBNFMLEMJEKEFNCCAA.kucera_jiri@volny.cz>

??dn? vedeck? pojedn?n? jsem u? nena?el. Ale ji? jsem v?m tu uvedl ?e v m?m
dnes ji? neexistuj?c?m podniku byly zku?enosti s oci?ten?mi lihem plo?n?ky
odzkou?en? a ulo?en? na sklad. Teprve po pul roce se zjistilo, ?e nekter?
plo?n?ky jsou nefunkcn?. Vzl?nalo to do IO kolem no?icek a po?kodilo to cip.
Pri?lo striktn? nar?zen? na pou??v?n? izopropylu a v?sledek byl bezchybn?.
Doporucuji jednoznacne izopropyl, zvl??te tam kde v?m na tom z?le??. Je to
opravdu zalo?eno na velikosti molekul.

-----Original Message-----
From: ronja-bounces+kucera_jiri=volny.cz na lists.pointless.net
[mailto:ronja-bounces+kucera_jiri=volny.cz na lists.pointless.net]On Behalf Of
Jakub Ladman
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 1:32 PM
To: Twibright Ronja
Subject: Re: [Ronja] Denatured alcohol vs. isopropyl


Zadny vedecky pojednani jak to vlastne je s tim lihem jsem necetl, ale
protoze
to ke mne prislom z duveryhodnych zdroju, tak se tim ridim.
Ostatne podle me zkusenosti isopropyl cisti lepe nez lih.
Drazsi je ale ne nijak zavratne.
Ja jsem si ted nechaval kupovat litr do prace a poilal jsem tady kolegu do
zlatnicky do drogerie, protoze tam byva levnejsi, ale kolega byl linej a
dotahl ho z GM. Tam je asi za kilo, ale presne nevim.
Jakub Ladman

Dne ?t 25. dubna 2006 09:42 Karel Kulhavy napsal(a):
> On Mon, Apr 24, 2006 at 01:17:15PM +0200, WaCX wrote:
> > O tomhle nic nevim ale izopropylalk. maji ve firme hichem ktera sidli v
> > arealu VU Bechovice kde mam pocit sidli i Pragoboard:-), jinak ho maji i
> > v drogerii v centru prahy ul.Zlatnicka.
>
> A je nejak vyrazne drazsi nez obyc alkohol?
>
> Nekdo tu tvrdil ze ten alkohol vzlina ale on ten alkohol je dost
> tekavej - tak to by mel zase promptne vyvzlinat ven a odparit se, ne?
>
> Jak se zjistilo ze poskozeni svabu je vzlinanim alkoholu?
>
> Voda ma jeste mensi molekuly nez ethylalkohol a tudiz kde vzlina
> alkohol, i voda by mela vzlinat. Jak muze alkohol poskodit cip svou
> pouhou pritomnosti? Slysel jsem o poskozeni sodikovymi ionty ktere jsou
> pry rozpustne v SiO2 a migruji v nem a zmeni vlastnosti tranzistoru,
> ale jak muze alkohol poskodit?
>
> CL<
>
> > wacx
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Karel Kulhavy" <clock na twibright.com>
> > To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja na lists.pointless.net>
> > Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 11:01 AM
> > Subject: [Ronja] Denatured alcohol vs. isopropyl
> >
> > > Does anyone have a confirmation that denatured alcohol can damage
> > > electronics
> > > when used for rinsing PCB from colophonium and that isopropyl alcohol
> > > should be used instead? Denatured alcohol == methylated spirit.
> > >
> > > Muze nekdo potvrdit zda denaturovany alkohol by se nemel pouzivat na
> > > oplachovani tistaku od kalafuny a ze by se mel pouzivat jinak
> > > izopropyl? Jinak pripisu do navodu denaturak protoze se snadno shani a
> > > je levnej.
> > >
> > > CL<
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Ronja mailing list
> > > Ronja na lists.pointless.net
> > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ronja mailing list
> > Ronja na lists.pointless.net
> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja

_______________________________________________
Ronja mailing list
Ronja na lists.pointless.net
http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


__________ Informace od NOD32 1.1454 (20060321) __________

Tato zprava byla proverena antivirovym systemem NOD32.
http://www.nod32.cz




From jakub.michnik at centrum.cz  Tue Apr 25 20:05:25 2006
From: jakub.michnik at centrum.cz (=?ISO-8859-2?Q?Jakub_Michn=EDk?=)
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 21:05:25 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] hackovatelne switche
Message-ID: <444E72F5.80302@centrum.cz>

chtel jsem se zeptat jake switche ktere jsou zrovna v prodeji maji ten 
cip, ktery jde nastavit natvrdo na 10Mbps FD. byl to tusim RTL8305SB. 
nerad bych kupoval neco zkusmo, oni ten sortiment v PC obchodech meni 
tak rychle ze je mozna mozne ze se uz switche s tim cipem ani nedelaji 
.. tak pokud ma nekdo aktualni informace budu za ne vdecny... diky moc


From krepa at seznam.cz  Tue Apr 25 20:17:04 2006
From: krepa at seznam.cz (Pavel Krejci)
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 21:17:04 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] hackovatelne switche
In-Reply-To: <444E72F5.80302@centrum.cz>
References: <444E72F5.80302@centrum.cz>
Message-ID: <444E75B0.2050403@seznam.cz>

Tyhle dva jdou hacknout na 100%
Ale je to RTL8305SC
Ten druhej je 8 port.
S ronjou jsem je jeste nezkousel, nicmene ten 5port jsem pomoci eepromky 
hacknul na VLAN (8port by mel jit taky) :o)

http://www.alzasoft.cz/d40073/18842923/edimax-es-3105p-5port-10-100-switch-plast.htm 
| 
http://www.alzasoft.cz/d40074/18842923/edimax-es-3108p-8port-10-100-switch-128kb-buffer.htm 


Jakub Michn?k napsal(a):
> chtel jsem se zeptat jake switche ktere jsou zrovna v prodeji maji ten 
> cip, ktery jde nastavit natvrdo na 10Mbps FD. byl to tusim RTL8305SB. 
> nerad bych kupoval neco zkusmo, oni ten sortiment v PC obchodech meni 
> tak rychle ze je mozna mozne ze se uz switche s tim cipem ani nedelaji 
> .. tak pokud ma nekdo aktualni informace budu za ne vdecny... diky moc
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 



From kendy at hkfree.org  Tue Apr 25 20:18:59 2006
From: kendy at hkfree.org (Kendy)
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 21:18:59 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] hackovatelne switche
In-Reply-To: <444E72F5.80302@centrum.cz>
References: <444E72F5.80302@centrum.cz>
Message-ID: <444E7623.3000308@hkfree.org>

Edimax ES-3105P (ma RTL8305SC, ale je to to same jako ten SB)
Cena do 400,-




Jakub Michn?k napsal(a):

> chtel jsem se zeptat jake switche ktere jsou zrovna v prodeji maji ten 
> cip, ktery jde nastavit natvrdo na 10Mbps FD. byl to tusim RTL8305SB. 
> nerad bych kupoval neco zkusmo, oni ten sortiment v PC obchodech meni 
> tak rychle ze je mozna mozne ze se uz switche s tim cipem ani nedelaji 
> .. tak pokud ma nekdo aktualni informace budu za ne vdecny... diky moc
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 


From wacx at email.cz  Tue Apr 25 20:27:53 2006
From: wacx at email.cz (WaCX)
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 21:27:53 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] wifi
References: <20060425173257.48730.qmail@web53410.mail.yahoo.com>
	<444E6628.4080807@kbx.cz>
Message-ID: <001b01c6689e$59498630$0201a8c0@wacxnote>

jen tak btw,
802.11n uz asi bude
http://www.czechcomputer.cz/art_doc-51C39E5EC1D8BAA3C125715A005A9BDA.html

wacx


From kendy at hkfree.org  Tue Apr 25 20:30:00 2006
From: kendy at hkfree.org (Kendy)
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 21:30:00 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] hackovatelne switche
In-Reply-To: <444E75B0.2050403@seznam.cz>
References: <444E72F5.80302@centrum.cz> <444E75B0.2050403@seznam.cz>
Message-ID: <444E78B8.5020105@hkfree.org>

S tou eeprom je to zajimave. Naprgal si ji po jejim vyjmuti, nebo by se 
dalo i bez hrabnuti pajkou do switche ?



Pavel Krejci napsal(a):

> Tyhle dva jdou hacknout na 100%
> Ale je to RTL8305SC
> Ten druhej je 8 port.
> S ronjou jsem je jeste nezkousel, nicmene ten 5port jsem pomoci eepromky 
> hacknul na VLAN (8port by mel jit taky) :o)
> 
> http://www.alzasoft.cz/d40073/18842923/edimax-es-3105p-5port-10-100-switch-plast.htm 
> | 
> http://www.alzasoft.cz/d40074/18842923/edimax-es-3108p-8port-10-100-switch-128kb-buffer.htm 
> 
> 
> Jakub Michn?k napsal(a):
> 
>>chtel jsem se zeptat jake switche ktere jsou zrovna v prodeji maji ten 
>>cip, ktery jde nastavit natvrdo na 10Mbps FD. byl to tusim RTL8305SB. 
>>nerad bych kupoval neco zkusmo, oni ten sortiment v PC obchodech meni 
>>tak rychle ze je mozna mozne ze se uz switche s tim cipem ani nedelaji 
>>.. tak pokud ma nekdo aktualni informace budu za ne vdecny... diky moc
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Ronja mailing list
>>Ronja na lists.pointless.net
>>http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>>
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 


From krepa at seznam.cz  Tue Apr 25 20:37:46 2006
From: krepa at seznam.cz (Pavel Krejci)
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 21:37:46 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] hackovatelne switche
In-Reply-To: <444E78B8.5020105@hkfree.org>
References: <444E72F5.80302@centrum.cz> <444E75B0.2050403@seznam.cz>
	<444E78B8.5020105@hkfree.org>
Message-ID: <444E7A8A.6070705@seznam.cz>

No jak bych Ti to rek...
Ona tam neni ale je na ni misto na tistaku :o)
Musis koupit 24LC02 v smd pouzdru a 2 pull-up rezistory tusim 805 
velikost. Ja to udelal tak, ze jsem si vytah napajeni (3.3V) a SCL, SDA 
na dratkach a pripojil to k Lkovy verzi ATmegy a tou to tam nacpal.
Co ma byt v eeprom najdes v DS. Da se tam nastsvit i 10FD.
Ted si nepamatuju jestli je ta eepromka enable nebo disable byl tam 
odpor ketrej jsem musel tusim odletovat. Nekam pritahoval pin.
Musel bych to rozebrat a podivat se ale da se na to prijit celkem jednoduse.






Kendy napsal(a):
> S tou eeprom je to zajimave. Naprgal si ji po jejim vyjmuti, nebo by se 
> dalo i bez hrabnuti pajkou do switche ?
> 
> 
> 
> Pavel Krejci napsal(a):
> 
>> Tyhle dva jdou hacknout na 100%
>> Ale je to RTL8305SC
>> Ten druhej je 8 port.
>> S ronjou jsem je jeste nezkousel, nicmene ten 5port jsem pomoci eepromky 
>> hacknul na VLAN (8port by mel jit taky) :o)
>>
>> http://www.alzasoft.cz/d40073/18842923/edimax-es-3105p-5port-10-100-switch-plast.htm 
>> | 
>> http://www.alzasoft.cz/d40074/18842923/edimax-es-3108p-8port-10-100-switch-128kb-buffer.htm 
>>
>>
>> Jakub Michn?k napsal(a):
>>
>>> chtel jsem se zeptat jake switche ktere jsou zrovna v prodeji maji ten 
>>> cip, ktery jde nastavit natvrdo na 10Mbps FD. byl to tusim RTL8305SB. 
>>> nerad bych kupoval neco zkusmo, oni ten sortiment v PC obchodech meni 
>>> tak rychle ze je mozna mozne ze se uz switche s tim cipem ani nedelaji 
>>> .. tak pokud ma nekdo aktualni informace budu za ne vdecny... diky moc
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Ronja mailing list
>>> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
>>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ronja mailing list
>> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 



From jakub.michnik at centrum.cz  Tue Apr 25 20:40:55 2006
From: jakub.michnik at centrum.cz (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jakub_Michn=EDk?=)
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 21:40:55 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] hackovatelne switche
In-Reply-To: <444E75B0.2050403@seznam.cz>
References: <444E72F5.80302@centrum.cz> <444E75B0.2050403@seznam.cz>
Message-ID: <444E7B47.1030905@centrum.cz>

a dal jsi nekam to, co se do te epromky musi nahrat? nebo nejaky navod 
nebo tak?

Pavel Krejci napsal(a):
> Tyhle dva jdou hacknout na 100%
> Ale je to RTL8305SC
> Ten druhej je 8 port.
> S ronjou jsem je jeste nezkousel, nicmene ten 5port jsem pomoci eepromky 
> hacknul na VLAN (8port by mel jit taky) :o)
>
> http://www.alzasoft.cz/d40073/18842923/edimax-es-3105p-5port-10-100-switch-plast.htm 
> | 
> http://www.alzasoft.cz/d40074/18842923/edimax-es-3108p-8port-10-100-switch-128kb-buffer.htm 
>
>
> Jakub Michn?k napsal(a):
>   
>> chtel jsem se zeptat jake switche ktere jsou zrovna v prodeji maji ten 
>> cip, ktery jde nastavit natvrdo na 10Mbps FD. byl to tusim RTL8305SB. 
>> nerad bych kupoval neco zkusmo, oni ten sortiment v PC obchodech meni 
>> tak rychle ze je mozna mozne ze se uz switche s tim cipem ani nedelaji 
>> .. tak pokud ma nekdo aktualni informace budu za ne vdecny... diky moc
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ronja mailing list
>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>>
>>     
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>
>
>   



From krepa at seznam.cz  Tue Apr 25 20:44:42 2006
From: krepa at seznam.cz (Pavel Krejci)
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 21:44:42 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] hackovatelne switche
In-Reply-To: <444E7B47.1030905@centrum.cz>
References: <444E72F5.80302@centrum.cz> <444E75B0.2050403@seznam.cz>
	<444E7B47.1030905@centrum.cz>
Message-ID: <444E7C2A.8060803@seznam.cz>

Nedal, protoze to nebylo delany na ronju, to planuju v blizke 
budoucnosti. Vzhledem k tomu, ze kazdy muze mit jine potreby jak 
nastavit VLAN tak by to bylo jen opakovani datasheetu, tam je vsechno 
popsane. Kdyby ses moc trapil, tak dej vedet.

Jakub Michn?k napsal(a):


> a dal jsi nekam to, co se do te epromky musi nahrat? nebo nejaky navod 
> nebo tak?
> 
> Pavel Krejci napsal(a):
>> Tyhle dva jdou hacknout na 100%
>> Ale je to RTL8305SC
>> Ten druhej je 8 port.
>> S ronjou jsem je jeste nezkousel, nicmene ten 5port jsem pomoci eepromky 
>> hacknul na VLAN (8port by mel jit taky) :o)
>>
>> http://www.alzasoft.cz/d40073/18842923/edimax-es-3105p-5port-10-100-switch-plast.htm 
>> | 
>> http://www.alzasoft.cz/d40074/18842923/edimax-es-3108p-8port-10-100-switch-128kb-buffer.htm 
>>
>>
>> Jakub Michn?k napsal(a):
>>   
>>> chtel jsem se zeptat jake switche ktere jsou zrovna v prodeji maji ten 
>>> cip, ktery jde nastavit natvrdo na 10Mbps FD. byl to tusim RTL8305SB. 
>>> nerad bych kupoval neco zkusmo, oni ten sortiment v PC obchodech meni 
>>> tak rychle ze je mozna mozne ze se uz switche s tim cipem ani nedelaji 
>>> .. tak pokud ma nekdo aktualni informace budu za ne vdecny... diky moc
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Ronja mailing list
>>> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
>>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>>>
>>>     
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ronja mailing list
>> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>>
>>
>>   
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 



From Noseeme at tiscali.cz  Tue Apr 25 20:51:59 2006
From: Noseeme at tiscali.cz (Noseeme)
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 21:51:59 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Ronja Digest, Vol 36, Issue 24
In-Reply-To: <mailman.459.1145992753.22549.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
Message-ID: <200604251952.k3PJq2d5003409@land.vypal.czf>

Denatur?k se pro myt? nedoporu?uje, hlavn? pro sv? p??m?si, kter?mi mohou
b?t r?zn? benzeny, toluen a jin? sra.ky. Izopropyl je asi nejlep??, d? se
pou??t i ethylalkohol. Pro ?i?t?n? DPS v pr?myslov? v?rob? se pou??vaj?
speci?ln? cleanery.
http://www.elchemco.cz/main.htm

Noseeme

-----Original Message-----
From: ronja-bounces+noseeme=tiscali.cz na lists.pointless.net
[mailto:ronja-bounces+noseeme=tiscali.cz na lists.pointless.net] On Behalf Of
ronja-request na lists.pointless.net
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 9:19 PM
To: ronja na lists.pointless.net
Subject: Ronja Digest, Vol 36, Issue 24

Send Ronja mailing list submissions to
	ronja na lists.pointless.net

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
	http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
	ronja-request na lists.pointless.net

You can reach the person managing the list at
	ronja-owner na lists.pointless.net

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Ronja digest..."


Today's Topics:

   1. Re:  Denatured alcohol vs. isopropyl (Jakub Ladman)
   2. Re:  Denatured alcohol vs. isopropyl (Petr Seliger)
   3. Re:  Denatured alcohol vs. isopropyl (WaCX)
   4.  modifing the ronja source code (Quintus Murray)
   5. Re:  modifing the ronja source code (Jakub Sykora)
   6. Re:  Denatured alcohol vs. isopropyl (Jiri Kucera)
   7.  hackovatelne switche (Jakub Michn?k)
   8. Re:  hackovatelne switche (Pavel Krejci)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 13:31:36 +0200
From: Jakub Ladman <ladmanj na volny.cz>
Subject: Re: [Ronja] Denatured alcohol vs. isopropyl
To: Twibright Ronja <ronja na lists.pointless.net>
Message-ID: <200604251331.37116.ladmanj na volny.cz>
Content-Type: text/plain;  charset="iso-8859-1"

Zadny vedecky pojednani jak to vlastne je s tim lihem jsem necetl, ale
protoze 
to ke mne prislom z duveryhodnych zdroju, tak se tim ridim.
Ostatne podle me zkusenosti isopropyl cisti lepe nez lih.
Drazsi je ale ne nijak zavratne.
Ja jsem si ted nechaval kupovat litr do prace a poilal jsem tady kolegu do 
zlatnicky do drogerie, protoze tam byva levnejsi, ale kolega byl linej a 
dotahl ho z GM. Tam je asi za kilo, ale presne nevim. 
Jakub Ladman

Dne ?t 25. dubna 2006 09:42 Karel Kulhavy napsal(a):
> On Mon, Apr 24, 2006 at 01:17:15PM +0200, WaCX wrote:
> > O tomhle nic nevim ale izopropylalk. maji ve firme hichem ktera sidli v
> > arealu VU Bechovice kde mam pocit sidli i Pragoboard:-), jinak ho maji i
> > v drogerii v centru prahy ul.Zlatnicka.
>
> A je nejak vyrazne drazsi nez obyc alkohol?
>
> Nekdo tu tvrdil ze ten alkohol vzlina ale on ten alkohol je dost
> tekavej - tak to by mel zase promptne vyvzlinat ven a odparit se, ne?
>
> Jak se zjistilo ze poskozeni svabu je vzlinanim alkoholu?
>
> Voda ma jeste mensi molekuly nez ethylalkohol a tudiz kde vzlina
> alkohol, i voda by mela vzlinat. Jak muze alkohol poskodit cip svou
> pouhou pritomnosti? Slysel jsem o poskozeni sodikovymi ionty ktere jsou
> pry rozpustne v SiO2 a migruji v nem a zmeni vlastnosti tranzistoru,
> ale jak muze alkohol poskodit?
>
> CL<
>
> > wacx
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Karel Kulhavy" <clock na twibright.com>
> > To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja na lists.pointless.net>
> > Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 11:01 AM
> > Subject: [Ronja] Denatured alcohol vs. isopropyl
> >
> > > Does anyone have a confirmation that denatured alcohol can damage
> > > electronics
> > > when used for rinsing PCB from colophonium and that isopropyl alcohol
> > > should be used instead? Denatured alcohol == methylated spirit.
> > >
> > > Muze nekdo potvrdit zda denaturovany alkohol by se nemel pouzivat na
> > > oplachovani tistaku od kalafuny a ze by se mel pouzivat jinak
> > > izopropyl? Jinak pripisu do navodu denaturak protoze se snadno shani a
> > > je levnej.
> > >
> > > CL<
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Ronja mailing list
> > > Ronja na lists.pointless.net
> > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ronja mailing list
> > Ronja na lists.pointless.net
> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja



------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 13:43:38 +0200
From: Petr Seliger <seligr na sh.cvut.cz>
Subject: Re: [Ronja] Denatured alcohol vs. isopropyl
To: Twibright Ronja <ronja na lists.pointless.net>
Message-ID: <1145965418.444e0b6abd1fe na desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-2

Cituji z emailu od Karel Kulhavy <clock na twibright.com>:

> On Mon, Apr 24, 2006 at 01:17:15PM +0200, WaCX wrote:
> > O tomhle nic nevim ale izopropylalk. maji ve firme hichem ktera sidli v 
> > arealu VU Bechovice kde mam pocit sidli i Pragoboard:-), jinak ho maji i
v
> 
> > drogerii v centru prahy ul.Zlatnicka.
> 
> A je nejak vyrazne drazsi nez obyc alkohol?
> 

Podle ceniku Zlatnicke z konce minuleho roku izopropyl 900ml 92,-
GES 1l 187,50
GM 1l 195,-
otazka je cistota toho ze zlatnicke.

> Nekdo tu tvrdil ze ten alkohol vzlina ale on ten alkohol je dost
> tekavej - tak to by mel zase promptne vyvzlinat ven a odparit se, ne?
> 

Ono je mozny ze izopropylove pary se hure zapaluji a navic lepe myje, takze
se
mu dava prednost. Co jsme zkouseli tohle
http://trubky.katka.biz/SLEHA-pretest.avi tak na lihove pary to funguje na
smes
1/3izopropyl + 2/3lih uz to skoro nefunguje a na cisty izpropyl to nefunguje
vubec.

> Jak se zjistilo ze poskozeni svabu je vzlinanim alkoholu?
> 
> Voda ma jeste mensi molekuly nez ethylalkohol a tudiz kde vzlina
> alkohol, i voda by mela vzlinat. Jak muze alkohol poskodit cip svou
> pouhou pritomnosti? Slysel jsem o poskozeni sodikovymi ionty ktere jsou
> pry rozpustne v SiO2 a migruji v nem a zmeni vlastnosti tranzistoru,
> ale jak muze alkohol poskodit?
> 
> CL<
> 
> > wacx
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Karel Kulhavy" <clock na twibright.com>
> > To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja na lists.pointless.net>
> > Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 11:01 AM
> > Subject: [Ronja] Denatured alcohol vs. isopropyl
> > 
> > 
> > > Does anyone have a confirmation that denatured alcohol can damage 
> > > electronics
> > > when used for rinsing PCB from colophonium and that isopropyl alcohol
> > > should be used instead? Denatured alcohol == methylated spirit.
> > >
> > > Muze nekdo potvrdit zda denaturovany alkohol by se nemel pouzivat na
> > > oplachovani tistaku od kalafuny a ze by se mel pouzivat jinak
> > > izopropyl? Jinak pripisu do navodu denaturak protoze se snadno shani a
> > > je levnej.
> > >
> > > CL<
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Ronja mailing list
> > > Ronja na lists.pointless.net
> > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ronja mailing list
> > Ronja na lists.pointless.net
> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 






------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 18:29:23 +0200
From: "WaCX" <wacx na email.cz>
Subject: Re: [Ronja] Denatured alcohol vs. isopropyl
To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja na lists.pointless.net>
Message-ID: <003f01c66885$69b1d900$0201a8c0 na wacxnote>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
	reply-type=original

jestli si spravne pamatuju, tak stal 70-80kc/litr, ale o problemech s IO nic

nevim, ja ho pouzivam na cisteni horaku COcka.
wacx
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Karel Kulhavy" <clock na twibright.com>
To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja na lists.pointless.net>
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 9:42 AM
Subject: Re: [Ronja] Denatured alcohol vs. isopropyl


> On Mon, Apr 24, 2006 at 01:17:15PM +0200, WaCX wrote:
>> O tomhle nic nevim ale izopropylalk. maji ve firme hichem ktera sidli v
>> arealu VU Bechovice kde mam pocit sidli i Pragoboard:-), jinak ho maji i 
>> v
>> drogerii v centru prahy ul.Zlatnicka.
>
> A je nejak vyrazne drazsi nez obyc alkohol?
>
> Nekdo tu tvrdil ze ten alkohol vzlina ale on ten alkohol je dost
> tekavej - tak to by mel zase promptne vyvzlinat ven a odparit se, ne?
>
> Jak se zjistilo ze poskozeni svabu je vzlinanim alkoholu?
>
> Voda ma jeste mensi molekuly nez ethylalkohol a tudiz kde vzlina
> alkohol, i voda by mela vzlinat. Jak muze alkohol poskodit cip svou
> pouhou pritomnosti? Slysel jsem o poskozeni sodikovymi ionty ktere jsou
> pry rozpustne v SiO2 a migruji v nem a zmeni vlastnosti tranzistoru,
> ale jak muze alkohol poskodit?
>
> CL<
>
>> wacx
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Karel Kulhavy" <clock na twibright.com>
>> To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja na lists.pointless.net>
>> Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 11:01 AM
>> Subject: [Ronja] Denatured alcohol vs. isopropyl
>>
>>
>> > Does anyone have a confirmation that denatured alcohol can damage
>> > electronics
>> > when used for rinsing PCB from colophonium and that isopropyl alcohol
>> > should be used instead? Denatured alcohol == methylated spirit.
>> >
>> > Muze nekdo potvrdit zda denaturovany alkohol by se nemel pouzivat na
>> > oplachovani tistaku od kalafuny a ze by se mel pouzivat jinak
>> > izopropyl? Jinak pripisu do navodu denaturak protoze se snadno shani a
>> > je levnej.
>> >
>> > CL<
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Ronja mailing list
>> > Ronja na lists.pointless.net
>> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ronja mailing list
>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja 




------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 10:32:57 -0700 (PDT)
From: Quintus Murray <quintusmurray na yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ronja] modifing the ronja source code
To: ronja na lists.pointless.net
Message-ID: <20060425173257.48730.qmail na web53410.mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

so I would like to know if I can use the open-source code of the ronja to
use it as a wi-fi access point???? or share it's internet and be used as an
ethernet switch to connect to a supernode for combined bandwidth???? plus if
yes what devices do I need to use the ronja as an 802.11N or G access point
or AP/router?????

		
---------------------------------
How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger?s low  PC-to-Phone call
rates.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:
http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20060425/743618a0/attachmen
t-0001.html 

------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 20:10:48 +0200
From: Jakub Sykora <kubajz na kbx.cz>
Subject: Re: [Ronja] modifing the ronja source code
To: Twibright Ronja <ronja na lists.pointless.net>
Message-ID: <444E6628.4080807 na kbx.cz>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

btw: How old are You Quintus? I am 23 and it is obvious to me, that 
ronja design is HARDWARE design and not a software one.
So the answer is YES - you can use it this way, if you can twist Ronja 
design to Access Point - When you are finished post us some photos - I 
am really wondering, how can Ronja design can act as an access point. I 
always thought that small divergence of the beam makes this impossible...
The next issue is, that 802.11n is not standardized yet...

Dela si z nas porad fakt prdel, nebo to mysli vazne? Skoro zacinam 
premyslet o tom, jestli to neni automat postavenej na nekolika neuronech...

K

Quintus Murray wrote:
> so I would like to know if I can use the open-source code of the ronja 
> to use it as a wi-fi access point???? or share it's internet and be used 
> as an ethernet switch to connect to a supernode for combined 
> bandwidth???? plus if yes what devices do I need to use the ronja as an 
> 802.11N or G access point or AP/router?????
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger?s low PC-to-Phone call 
> rates. 
>
<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail_us/taglines/postman8/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/ev
t=39663/*http://voice.yahoo.com>
> 
> 
>
<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail_us/taglines/postman8/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/ev
t=39663/*http://voice.yahoo.com>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>
<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail_us/taglines/postman8/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/ev
t=39663/*http://voice.yahoo.com>

-- 
Jakub S?kora
email: kubajz na kbx.cz       <')
ICQ: 68976632               ( =-
mobil: +420 777 594 201      ''
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: kubajz.vcf
Type: text/x-vcard
Size: 274 bytes
Desc: not available
Url :
http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20060425/21ccd895/attachmen
t-0001.vcf 

------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 20:22:17 +0200
From: "Jiri Kucera" <kucera_jiri na volny.cz>
Subject: Re: [Ronja] Denatured alcohol vs. isopropyl
To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja na lists.pointless.net>
Message-ID: <MFEBKHPDNDJBNFMLEMJEKEFNCCAA.kucera_jiri na volny.cz>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"

??dn? vedeck? pojedn?n? jsem u? nena?el. Ale ji? jsem v?m tu uvedl ?e v m?m
dnes ji? neexistuj?c?m podniku byly zku?enosti s oci?ten?mi lihem plo?n?ky
odzkou?en? a ulo?en? na sklad. Teprve po pul roce se zjistilo, ?e nekter?
plo?n?ky jsou nefunkcn?. Vzl?nalo to do IO kolem no?icek a po?kodilo to cip.
Pri?lo striktn? nar?zen? na pou??v?n? izopropylu a v?sledek byl bezchybn?.
Doporucuji jednoznacne izopropyl, zvl??te tam kde v?m na tom z?le??. Je to
opravdu zalo?eno na velikosti molekul.

-----Original Message-----
From: ronja-bounces+kucera_jiri=volny.cz na lists.pointless.net
[mailto:ronja-bounces+kucera_jiri=volny.cz na lists.pointless.net]On Behalf Of
Jakub Ladman
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 1:32 PM
To: Twibright Ronja
Subject: Re: [Ronja] Denatured alcohol vs. isopropyl


Zadny vedecky pojednani jak to vlastne je s tim lihem jsem necetl, ale
protoze
to ke mne prislom z duveryhodnych zdroju, tak se tim ridim.
Ostatne podle me zkusenosti isopropyl cisti lepe nez lih.
Drazsi je ale ne nijak zavratne.
Ja jsem si ted nechaval kupovat litr do prace a poilal jsem tady kolegu do
zlatnicky do drogerie, protoze tam byva levnejsi, ale kolega byl linej a
dotahl ho z GM. Tam je asi za kilo, ale presne nevim.
Jakub Ladman

Dne ?t 25. dubna 2006 09:42 Karel Kulhavy napsal(a):
> On Mon, Apr 24, 2006 at 01:17:15PM +0200, WaCX wrote:
> > O tomhle nic nevim ale izopropylalk. maji ve firme hichem ktera sidli v
> > arealu VU Bechovice kde mam pocit sidli i Pragoboard:-), jinak ho maji i
> > v drogerii v centru prahy ul.Zlatnicka.
>
> A je nejak vyrazne drazsi nez obyc alkohol?
>
> Nekdo tu tvrdil ze ten alkohol vzlina ale on ten alkohol je dost
> tekavej - tak to by mel zase promptne vyvzlinat ven a odparit se, ne?
>
> Jak se zjistilo ze poskozeni svabu je vzlinanim alkoholu?
>
> Voda ma jeste mensi molekuly nez ethylalkohol a tudiz kde vzlina
> alkohol, i voda by mela vzlinat. Jak muze alkohol poskodit cip svou
> pouhou pritomnosti? Slysel jsem o poskozeni sodikovymi ionty ktere jsou
> pry rozpustne v SiO2 a migruji v nem a zmeni vlastnosti tranzistoru,
> ale jak muze alkohol poskodit?
>
> CL<
>
> > wacx
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Karel Kulhavy" <clock na twibright.com>
> > To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja na lists.pointless.net>
> > Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 11:01 AM
> > Subject: [Ronja] Denatured alcohol vs. isopropyl
> >
> > > Does anyone have a confirmation that denatured alcohol can damage
> > > electronics
> > > when used for rinsing PCB from colophonium and that isopropyl alcohol
> > > should be used instead? Denatured alcohol == methylated spirit.
> > >
> > > Muze nekdo potvrdit zda denaturovany alkohol by se nemel pouzivat na
> > > oplachovani tistaku od kalafuny a ze by se mel pouzivat jinak
> > > izopropyl? Jinak pripisu do navodu denaturak protoze se snadno shani a
> > > je levnej.
> > >
> > > CL<
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Ronja mailing list
> > > Ronja na lists.pointless.net
> > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ronja mailing list
> > Ronja na lists.pointless.net
> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja

_______________________________________________
Ronja mailing list
Ronja na lists.pointless.net
http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


__________ Informace od NOD32 1.1454 (20060321) __________

Tato zprava byla proverena antivirovym systemem NOD32.
http://www.nod32.cz





------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 21:05:25 +0200
From: Jakub Michn?k <jakub.michnik na centrum.cz>
Subject: [Ronja] hackovatelne switche
To: Twibright Ronja <ronja na lists.pointless.net>
Message-ID: <444E72F5.80302 na centrum.cz>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-2; format=flowed

chtel jsem se zeptat jake switche ktere jsou zrovna v prodeji maji ten 
cip, ktery jde nastavit natvrdo na 10Mbps FD. byl to tusim RTL8305SB. 
nerad bych kupoval neco zkusmo, oni ten sortiment v PC obchodech meni 
tak rychle ze je mozna mozne ze se uz switche s tim cipem ani nedelaji 
.. tak pokud ma nekdo aktualni informace budu za ne vdecny... diky moc



------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 21:17:04 +0200
From: Pavel Krejci <krepa na seznam.cz>
Subject: Re: [Ronja] hackovatelne switche
To: Twibright Ronja <ronja na lists.pointless.net>
Message-ID: <444E75B0.2050403 na seznam.cz>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Tyhle dva jdou hacknout na 100%
Ale je to RTL8305SC
Ten druhej je 8 port.
S ronjou jsem je jeste nezkousel, nicmene ten 5port jsem pomoci eepromky 
hacknul na VLAN (8port by mel jit taky) :o)

http://www.alzasoft.cz/d40073/18842923/edimax-es-3105p-5port-10-100-switch-p
last.htm 
| 
http://www.alzasoft.cz/d40074/18842923/edimax-es-3108p-8port-10-100-switch-1
28kb-buffer.htm 


Jakub Michn?k napsal(a):
> chtel jsem se zeptat jake switche ktere jsou zrovna v prodeji maji ten 
> cip, ktery jde nastavit natvrdo na 10Mbps FD. byl to tusim RTL8305SB. 
> nerad bych kupoval neco zkusmo, oni ten sortiment v PC obchodech meni 
> tak rychle ze je mozna mozne ze se uz switche s tim cipem ani nedelaji 
> .. tak pokud ma nekdo aktualni informace budu za ne vdecny... diky moc
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 




------------------------------

_______________________________________________
Ronja mailing list
Ronja na lists.pointless.net
http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


End of Ronja Digest, Vol 36, Issue 24
*************************************



From Noseeme at tiscali.cz  Tue Apr 25 21:09:46 2006
From: Noseeme at tiscali.cz (Noseeme)
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 22:09:46 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Denatured alcohol vs. isopropyl
In-Reply-To: <mailman.461.1145994756.22549.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
Message-ID: <200604252009.k3PK9mY9003996@land.vypal.czf>

Jeste jednou a sorry za ma cestina:
Denaturak se pro myti nedoporucuje, hlavne pro sve primesi, kterymi mohou
byt ruzn? benzeny, toluen a jine sra.ky. Izopropyl je asi nejlepsi, da se
pouzit i ethylalkohol. Pro cisten? DPS v prumyslov? vyrobe se pouzivaji
specialni cleanery.
http://www.elchemco.cz/main.htm

Noseeme

-----Original Message-----
From: ronja-bounces+noseeme=tiscali.cz na lists.pointless.net
[mailto:ronja-bounces+noseeme=tiscali.cz na lists.pointless.net] On Behalf Of
ronja-request na lists.pointless.net
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 9:53 PM
To: ronja na lists.pointless.net
Subject: Ronja Digest, Vol 36, Issue 25

Send Ronja mailing list submissions to
	ronja na lists.pointless.net

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
	http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
	ronja-request na lists.pointless.net

You can reach the person managing the list at
	ronja-owner na lists.pointless.net

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Ronja digest..."


Today's Topics:

   1. Re:  hackovatelne switche (Kendy)
   2. Re:  wifi (WaCX)
   3. Re:  hackovatelne switche (Kendy)
   4. Re:  hackovatelne switche (Pavel Krejci)
   5. Re:  hackovatelne switche (Jakub Michn?k)
   6. Re:  hackovatelne switche (Pavel Krejci)
   7. Re:  Ronja Digest, Vol 36, Issue 24 (Noseeme)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 21:18:59 +0200
From: Kendy <kendy na hkfree.org>
Subject: Re: [Ronja] hackovatelne switche
To: Twibright Ronja <ronja na lists.pointless.net>
Message-ID: <444E7623.3000308 na hkfree.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Edimax ES-3105P (ma RTL8305SC, ale je to to same jako ten SB)
Cena do 400,-




Jakub Michn?k napsal(a):

> chtel jsem se zeptat jake switche ktere jsou zrovna v prodeji maji ten 
> cip, ktery jde nastavit natvrdo na 10Mbps FD. byl to tusim RTL8305SB. 
> nerad bych kupoval neco zkusmo, oni ten sortiment v PC obchodech meni 
> tak rychle ze je mozna mozne ze se uz switche s tim cipem ani nedelaji 
> .. tak pokud ma nekdo aktualni informace budu za ne vdecny... diky moc
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 



------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 21:27:53 +0200
From: "WaCX" <wacx na email.cz>
Subject: Re: [Ronja] wifi
To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja na lists.pointless.net>
Message-ID: <001b01c6689e$59498630$0201a8c0 na wacxnote>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8";
	reply-type=original

jen tak btw,
802.11n uz asi bude
http://www.czechcomputer.cz/art_doc-51C39E5EC1D8BAA3C125715A005A9BDA.html

wacx



------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 21:30:00 +0200
From: Kendy <kendy na hkfree.org>
Subject: Re: [Ronja] hackovatelne switche
To: Twibright Ronja <ronja na lists.pointless.net>
Message-ID: <444E78B8.5020105 na hkfree.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

S tou eeprom je to zajimave. Naprgal si ji po jejim vyjmuti, nebo by se 
dalo i bez hrabnuti pajkou do switche ?



Pavel Krejci napsal(a):

> Tyhle dva jdou hacknout na 100%
> Ale je to RTL8305SC
> Ten druhej je 8 port.
> S ronjou jsem je jeste nezkousel, nicmene ten 5port jsem pomoci eepromky 
> hacknul na VLAN (8port by mel jit taky) :o)
> 
>
http://www.alzasoft.cz/d40073/18842923/edimax-es-3105p-5port-10-100-switch-p
last.htm 
> | 
>
http://www.alzasoft.cz/d40074/18842923/edimax-es-3108p-8port-10-100-switch-1
28kb-buffer.htm 
> 
> 
> Jakub Michn?k napsal(a):
> 
>>chtel jsem se zeptat jake switche ktere jsou zrovna v prodeji maji ten 
>>cip, ktery jde nastavit natvrdo na 10Mbps FD. byl to tusim RTL8305SB. 
>>nerad bych kupoval neco zkusmo, oni ten sortiment v PC obchodech meni 
>>tak rychle ze je mozna mozne ze se uz switche s tim cipem ani nedelaji 
>>.. tak pokud ma nekdo aktualni informace budu za ne vdecny... diky moc
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Ronja mailing list
>>Ronja na lists.pointless.net
>>http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>>
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 



------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 21:37:46 +0200
From: Pavel Krejci <krepa na seznam.cz>
Subject: Re: [Ronja] hackovatelne switche
To: Twibright Ronja <ronja na lists.pointless.net>
Message-ID: <444E7A8A.6070705 na seznam.cz>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

No jak bych Ti to rek...
Ona tam neni ale je na ni misto na tistaku :o)
Musis koupit 24LC02 v smd pouzdru a 2 pull-up rezistory tusim 805 
velikost. Ja to udelal tak, ze jsem si vytah napajeni (3.3V) a SCL, SDA 
na dratkach a pripojil to k Lkovy verzi ATmegy a tou to tam nacpal.
Co ma byt v eeprom najdes v DS. Da se tam nastsvit i 10FD.
Ted si nepamatuju jestli je ta eepromka enable nebo disable byl tam 
odpor ketrej jsem musel tusim odletovat. Nekam pritahoval pin.
Musel bych to rozebrat a podivat se ale da se na to prijit celkem jednoduse.






Kendy napsal(a):
> S tou eeprom je to zajimave. Naprgal si ji po jejim vyjmuti, nebo by se 
> dalo i bez hrabnuti pajkou do switche ?
> 
> 
> 
> Pavel Krejci napsal(a):
> 
>> Tyhle dva jdou hacknout na 100%
>> Ale je to RTL8305SC
>> Ten druhej je 8 port.
>> S ronjou jsem je jeste nezkousel, nicmene ten 5port jsem pomoci eepromky 
>> hacknul na VLAN (8port by mel jit taky) :o)
>>
>>
http://www.alzasoft.cz/d40073/18842923/edimax-es-3105p-5port-10-100-switch-p
last.htm 
>> | 
>>
http://www.alzasoft.cz/d40074/18842923/edimax-es-3108p-8port-10-100-switch-1
28kb-buffer.htm 
>>
>>
>> Jakub Michn?k napsal(a):
>>
>>> chtel jsem se zeptat jake switche ktere jsou zrovna v prodeji maji ten 
>>> cip, ktery jde nastavit natvrdo na 10Mbps FD. byl to tusim RTL8305SB. 
>>> nerad bych kupoval neco zkusmo, oni ten sortiment v PC obchodech meni 
>>> tak rychle ze je mozna mozne ze se uz switche s tim cipem ani nedelaji 
>>> .. tak pokud ma nekdo aktualni informace budu za ne vdecny... diky moc
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Ronja mailing list
>>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
>>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ronja mailing list
>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 




------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 21:40:55 +0200
From: Jakub Michn?k <jakub.michnik na centrum.cz>
Subject: Re: [Ronja] hackovatelne switche
To: Twibright Ronja <ronja na lists.pointless.net>
Message-ID: <444E7B47.1030905 na centrum.cz>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

a dal jsi nekam to, co se do te epromky musi nahrat? nebo nejaky navod 
nebo tak?

Pavel Krejci napsal(a):
> Tyhle dva jdou hacknout na 100%
> Ale je to RTL8305SC
> Ten druhej je 8 port.
> S ronjou jsem je jeste nezkousel, nicmene ten 5port jsem pomoci eepromky 
> hacknul na VLAN (8port by mel jit taky) :o)
>
>
http://www.alzasoft.cz/d40073/18842923/edimax-es-3105p-5port-10-100-switch-p
last.htm 
> | 
>
http://www.alzasoft.cz/d40074/18842923/edimax-es-3108p-8port-10-100-switch-1
28kb-buffer.htm 
>
>
> Jakub Michn?k napsal(a):
>   
>> chtel jsem se zeptat jake switche ktere jsou zrovna v prodeji maji ten 
>> cip, ktery jde nastavit natvrdo na 10Mbps FD. byl to tusim RTL8305SB. 
>> nerad bych kupoval neco zkusmo, oni ten sortiment v PC obchodech meni 
>> tak rychle ze je mozna mozne ze se uz switche s tim cipem ani nedelaji 
>> .. tak pokud ma nekdo aktualni informace budu za ne vdecny... diky moc
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ronja mailing list
>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>>
>>     
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>
>
>   




------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 21:44:42 +0200
From: Pavel Krejci <krepa na seznam.cz>
Subject: Re: [Ronja] hackovatelne switche
To: Twibright Ronja <ronja na lists.pointless.net>
Message-ID: <444E7C2A.8060803 na seznam.cz>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Nedal, protoze to nebylo delany na ronju, to planuju v blizke 
budoucnosti. Vzhledem k tomu, ze kazdy muze mit jine potreby jak 
nastavit VLAN tak by to bylo jen opakovani datasheetu, tam je vsechno 
popsane. Kdyby ses moc trapil, tak dej vedet.

Jakub Michn?k napsal(a):


> a dal jsi nekam to, co se do te epromky musi nahrat? nebo nejaky navod 
> nebo tak?
> 
> Pavel Krejci napsal(a):
>> Tyhle dva jdou hacknout na 100%
>> Ale je to RTL8305SC
>> Ten druhej je 8 port.
>> S ronjou jsem je jeste nezkousel, nicmene ten 5port jsem pomoci eepromky 
>> hacknul na VLAN (8port by mel jit taky) :o)
>>
>>
http://www.alzasoft.cz/d40073/18842923/edimax-es-3105p-5port-10-100-switch-p
last.htm 
>> | 
>>
http://www.alzasoft.cz/d40074/18842923/edimax-es-3108p-8port-10-100-switch-1
28kb-buffer.htm 
>>
>>
>> Jakub Michn?k napsal(a):
>>   
>>> chtel jsem se zeptat jake switche ktere jsou zrovna v prodeji maji ten 
>>> cip, ktery jde nastavit natvrdo na 10Mbps FD. byl to tusim RTL8305SB. 
>>> nerad bych kupoval neco zkusmo, oni ten sortiment v PC obchodech meni 
>>> tak rychle ze je mozna mozne ze se uz switche s tim cipem ani nedelaji 
>>> .. tak pokud ma nekdo aktualni informace budu za ne vdecny... diky moc
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Ronja mailing list
>>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
>>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>>>
>>>     
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ronja mailing list
>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>>
>>
>>   
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 




------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 21:51:59 +0200
From: "Noseeme" <Noseeme na tiscali.cz>
Subject: Re: [Ronja] Ronja Digest, Vol 36, Issue 24
To: <ronja na lists.pointless.net>
Message-ID: <200604251952.k3PJq2d5003409 na land.vypal.czf>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-2"

Denatur?k se pro myt? nedoporu?uje, hlavn? pro sv? p??m?si, kter?mi mohou
b?t r?zn? benzeny, toluen a jin? sra.ky. Izopropyl je asi nejlep??, d? se
pou??t i ethylalkohol. Pro ?i?t?n? DPS v pr?myslov? v?rob? se pou??vaj?
speci?ln? cleanery.
http://www.elchemco.cz/main.htm

Noseeme

-----Original Message-----
From: ronja-bounces+noseeme=tiscali.cz na lists.pointless.net
[mailto:ronja-bounces+noseeme=tiscali.cz na lists.pointless.net] On Behalf Of
ronja-request na lists.pointless.net
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 9:19 PM
To: ronja na lists.pointless.net
Subject: Ronja Digest, Vol 36, Issue 24

Send Ronja mailing list submissions to
	ronja na lists.pointless.net

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
	http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
	ronja-request na lists.pointless.net

You can reach the person managing the list at
	ronja-owner na lists.pointless.net

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Ronja digest..."


Today's Topics:

   1. Re:  Denatured alcohol vs. isopropyl (Jakub Ladman)
   2. Re:  Denatured alcohol vs. isopropyl (Petr Seliger)
   3. Re:  Denatured alcohol vs. isopropyl (WaCX)
   4.  modifing the ronja source code (Quintus Murray)
   5. Re:  modifing the ronja source code (Jakub Sykora)
   6. Re:  Denatured alcohol vs. isopropyl (Jiri Kucera)
   7.  hackovatelne switche (Jakub Michn?k)
   8. Re:  hackovatelne switche (Pavel Krejci)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 13:31:36 +0200
From: Jakub Ladman <ladmanj na volny.cz>
Subject: Re: [Ronja] Denatured alcohol vs. isopropyl
To: Twibright Ronja <ronja na lists.pointless.net>
Message-ID: <200604251331.37116.ladmanj na volny.cz>
Content-Type: text/plain;  charset="iso-8859-1"

Zadny vedecky pojednani jak to vlastne je s tim lihem jsem necetl, ale
protoze 
to ke mne prislom z duveryhodnych zdroju, tak se tim ridim.
Ostatne podle me zkusenosti isopropyl cisti lepe nez lih.
Drazsi je ale ne nijak zavratne.
Ja jsem si ted nechaval kupovat litr do prace a poilal jsem tady kolegu do 
zlatnicky do drogerie, protoze tam byva levnejsi, ale kolega byl linej a 
dotahl ho z GM. Tam je asi za kilo, ale presne nevim. 
Jakub Ladman

Dne ?t 25. dubna 2006 09:42 Karel Kulhavy napsal(a):
> On Mon, Apr 24, 2006 at 01:17:15PM +0200, WaCX wrote:
> > O tomhle nic nevim ale izopropylalk. maji ve firme hichem ktera sidli v
> > arealu VU Bechovice kde mam pocit sidli i Pragoboard:-), jinak ho maji i
> > v drogerii v centru prahy ul.Zlatnicka.
>
> A je nejak vyrazne drazsi nez obyc alkohol?
>
> Nekdo tu tvrdil ze ten alkohol vzlina ale on ten alkohol je dost
> tekavej - tak to by mel zase promptne vyvzlinat ven a odparit se, ne?
>
> Jak se zjistilo ze poskozeni svabu je vzlinanim alkoholu?
>
> Voda ma jeste mensi molekuly nez ethylalkohol a tudiz kde vzlina
> alkohol, i voda by mela vzlinat. Jak muze alkohol poskodit cip svou
> pouhou pritomnosti? Slysel jsem o poskozeni sodikovymi ionty ktere jsou
> pry rozpustne v SiO2 a migruji v nem a zmeni vlastnosti tranzistoru,
> ale jak muze alkohol poskodit?
>
> CL<
>
> > wacx
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Karel Kulhavy" <clock na twibright.com>
> > To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja na lists.pointless.net>
> > Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 11:01 AM
> > Subject: [Ronja] Denatured alcohol vs. isopropyl
> >
> > > Does anyone have a confirmation that denatured alcohol can damage
> > > electronics
> > > when used for rinsing PCB from colophonium and that isopropyl alcohol
> > > should be used instead? Denatured alcohol == methylated spirit.
> > >
> > > Muze nekdo potvrdit zda denaturovany alkohol by se nemel pouzivat na
> > > oplachovani tistaku od kalafuny a ze by se mel pouzivat jinak
> > > izopropyl? Jinak pripisu do navodu denaturak protoze se snadno shani a
> > > je levnej.
> > >
> > > CL<
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Ronja mailing list
> > > Ronja na lists.pointless.net
> > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ronja mailing list
> > Ronja na lists.pointless.net
> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja



------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 13:43:38 +0200
From: Petr Seliger <seligr na sh.cvut.cz>
Subject: Re: [Ronja] Denatured alcohol vs. isopropyl
To: Twibright Ronja <ronja na lists.pointless.net>
Message-ID: <1145965418.444e0b6abd1fe na desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-2

Cituji z emailu od Karel Kulhavy <clock na twibright.com>:

> On Mon, Apr 24, 2006 at 01:17:15PM +0200, WaCX wrote:
> > O tomhle nic nevim ale izopropylalk. maji ve firme hichem ktera sidli v 
> > arealu VU Bechovice kde mam pocit sidli i Pragoboard:-), jinak ho maji i
v
> 
> > drogerii v centru prahy ul.Zlatnicka.
> 
> A je nejak vyrazne drazsi nez obyc alkohol?
> 

Podle ceniku Zlatnicke z konce minuleho roku izopropyl 900ml 92,-
GES 1l 187,50
GM 1l 195,-
otazka je cistota toho ze zlatnicke.

> Nekdo tu tvrdil ze ten alkohol vzlina ale on ten alkohol je dost
> tekavej - tak to by mel zase promptne vyvzlinat ven a odparit se, ne?
> 

Ono je mozny ze izopropylove pary se hure zapaluji a navic lepe myje, takze
se
mu dava prednost. Co jsme zkouseli tohle
http://trubky.katka.biz/SLEHA-pretest.avi tak na lihove pary to funguje na
smes
1/3izopropyl + 2/3lih uz to skoro nefunguje a na cisty izpropyl to nefunguje
vubec.

> Jak se zjistilo ze poskozeni svabu je vzlinanim alkoholu?
> 
> Voda ma jeste mensi molekuly nez ethylalkohol a tudiz kde vzlina
> alkohol, i voda by mela vzlinat. Jak muze alkohol poskodit cip svou
> pouhou pritomnosti? Slysel jsem o poskozeni sodikovymi ionty ktere jsou
> pry rozpustne v SiO2 a migruji v nem a zmeni vlastnosti tranzistoru,
> ale jak muze alkohol poskodit?
> 
> CL<
> 
> > wacx
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Karel Kulhavy" <clock na twibright.com>
> > To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja na lists.pointless.net>
> > Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 11:01 AM
> > Subject: [Ronja] Denatured alcohol vs. isopropyl
> > 
> > 
> > > Does anyone have a confirmation that denatured alcohol can damage 
> > > electronics
> > > when used for rinsing PCB from colophonium and that isopropyl alcohol
> > > should be used instead? Denatured alcohol == methylated spirit.
> > >
> > > Muze nekdo potvrdit zda denaturovany alkohol by se nemel pouzivat na
> > > oplachovani tistaku od kalafuny a ze by se mel pouzivat jinak
> > > izopropyl? Jinak pripisu do navodu denaturak protoze se snadno shani a
> > > je levnej.
> > >
> > > CL<
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Ronja mailing list
> > > Ronja na lists.pointless.net
> > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ronja mailing list
> > Ronja na lists.pointless.net
> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 






------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 18:29:23 +0200
From: "WaCX" <wacx na email.cz>
Subject: Re: [Ronja] Denatured alcohol vs. isopropyl
To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja na lists.pointless.net>
Message-ID: <003f01c66885$69b1d900$0201a8c0 na wacxnote>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
	reply-type=original

jestli si spravne pamatuju, tak stal 70-80kc/litr, ale o problemech s IO nic

nevim, ja ho pouzivam na cisteni horaku COcka.
wacx
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Karel Kulhavy" <clock na twibright.com>
To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja na lists.pointless.net>
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 9:42 AM
Subject: Re: [Ronja] Denatured alcohol vs. isopropyl


> On Mon, Apr 24, 2006 at 01:17:15PM +0200, WaCX wrote:
>> O tomhle nic nevim ale izopropylalk. maji ve firme hichem ktera sidli v
>> arealu VU Bechovice kde mam pocit sidli i Pragoboard:-), jinak ho maji i 
>> v
>> drogerii v centru prahy ul.Zlatnicka.
>
> A je nejak vyrazne drazsi nez obyc alkohol?
>
> Nekdo tu tvrdil ze ten alkohol vzlina ale on ten alkohol je dost
> tekavej - tak to by mel zase promptne vyvzlinat ven a odparit se, ne?
>
> Jak se zjistilo ze poskozeni svabu je vzlinanim alkoholu?
>
> Voda ma jeste mensi molekuly nez ethylalkohol a tudiz kde vzlina
> alkohol, i voda by mela vzlinat. Jak muze alkohol poskodit cip svou
> pouhou pritomnosti? Slysel jsem o poskozeni sodikovymi ionty ktere jsou
> pry rozpustne v SiO2 a migruji v nem a zmeni vlastnosti tranzistoru,
> ale jak muze alkohol poskodit?
>
> CL<
>
>> wacx
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Karel Kulhavy" <clock na twibright.com>
>> To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja na lists.pointless.net>
>> Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 11:01 AM
>> Subject: [Ronja] Denatured alcohol vs. isopropyl
>>
>>
>> > Does anyone have a confirmation that denatured alcohol can damage
>> > electronics
>> > when used for rinsing PCB from colophonium and that isopropyl alcohol
>> > should be used instead? Denatured alcohol == methylated spirit.
>> >
>> > Muze nekdo potvrdit zda denaturovany alkohol by se nemel pouzivat na
>> > oplachovani tistaku od kalafuny a ze by se mel pouzivat jinak
>> > izopropyl? Jinak pripisu do navodu denaturak protoze se snadno shani a
>> > je levnej.
>> >
>> > CL<
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Ronja mailing list
>> > Ronja na lists.pointless.net
>> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ronja mailing list
>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja 




------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 10:32:57 -0700 (PDT)
From: Quintus Murray <quintusmurray na yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ronja] modifing the ronja source code
To: ronja na lists.pointless.net
Message-ID: <20060425173257.48730.qmail na web53410.mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

so I would like to know if I can use the open-source code of the ronja to
use it as a wi-fi access point???? or share it's internet and be used as an
ethernet switch to connect to a supernode for combined bandwidth???? plus if
yes what devices do I need to use the ronja as an 802.11N or G access point
or AP/router?????

		
---------------------------------
How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger?s low  PC-to-Phone call
rates.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:
http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20060425/743618a0/attachmen
t-0001.html 

------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 20:10:48 +0200
From: Jakub Sykora <kubajz na kbx.cz>
Subject: Re: [Ronja] modifing the ronja source code
To: Twibright Ronja <ronja na lists.pointless.net>
Message-ID: <444E6628.4080807 na kbx.cz>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

btw: How old are You Quintus? I am 23 and it is obvious to me, that 
ronja design is HARDWARE design and not a software one.
So the answer is YES - you can use it this way, if you can twist Ronja 
design to Access Point - When you are finished post us some photos - I 
am really wondering, how can Ronja design can act as an access point. I 
always thought that small divergence of the beam makes this impossible...
The next issue is, that 802.11n is not standardized yet...

Dela si z nas porad fakt prdel, nebo to mysli vazne? Skoro zacinam 
premyslet o tom, jestli to neni automat postavenej na nekolika neuronech...

K

Quintus Murray wrote:
> so I would like to know if I can use the open-source code of the ronja 
> to use it as a wi-fi access point???? or share it's internet and be used 
> as an ethernet switch to connect to a supernode for combined 
> bandwidth???? plus if yes what devices do I need to use the ronja as an 
> 802.11N or G access point or AP/router?????
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger?s low PC-to-Phone call 
> rates. 
>
<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail_us/taglines/postman8/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/ev
t=39663/*http://voice.yahoo.com>
> 
> 
>
<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail_us/taglines/postman8/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/ev
t=39663/*http://voice.yahoo.com>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>
<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail_us/taglines/postman8/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/ev
t=39663/*http://voice.yahoo.com>

-- 
Jakub S?kora
email: kubajz na kbx.cz       <')
ICQ: 68976632               ( =-
mobil: +420 777 594 201      ''
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: kubajz.vcf
Type: text/x-vcard
Size: 274 bytes
Desc: not available
Url :
http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20060425/21ccd895/attachmen
t-0001.vcf 

------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 20:22:17 +0200
From: "Jiri Kucera" <kucera_jiri na volny.cz>
Subject: Re: [Ronja] Denatured alcohol vs. isopropyl
To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja na lists.pointless.net>
Message-ID: <MFEBKHPDNDJBNFMLEMJEKEFNCCAA.kucera_jiri na volny.cz>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"

??dn? vedeck? pojedn?n? jsem u? nena?el. Ale ji? jsem v?m tu uvedl ?e v m?m
dnes ji? neexistuj?c?m podniku byly zku?enosti s oci?ten?mi lihem plo?n?ky
odzkou?en? a ulo?en? na sklad. Teprve po pul roce se zjistilo, ?e nekter?
plo?n?ky jsou nefunkcn?. Vzl?nalo to do IO kolem no?icek a po?kodilo to cip.
Pri?lo striktn? nar?zen? na pou??v?n? izopropylu a v?sledek byl bezchybn?.
Doporucuji jednoznacne izopropyl, zvl??te tam kde v?m na tom z?le??. Je to
opravdu zalo?eno na velikosti molekul.

-----Original Message-----
From: ronja-bounces+kucera_jiri=volny.cz na lists.pointless.net
[mailto:ronja-bounces+kucera_jiri=volny.cz na lists.pointless.net]On Behalf Of
Jakub Ladman
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 1:32 PM
To: Twibright Ronja
Subject: Re: [Ronja] Denatured alcohol vs. isopropyl


Zadny vedecky pojednani jak to vlastne je s tim lihem jsem necetl, ale
protoze
to ke mne prislom z duveryhodnych zdroju, tak se tim ridim.
Ostatne podle me zkusenosti isopropyl cisti lepe nez lih.
Drazsi je ale ne nijak zavratne.
Ja jsem si ted nechaval kupovat litr do prace a poilal jsem tady kolegu do
zlatnicky do drogerie, protoze tam byva levnejsi, ale kolega byl linej a
dotahl ho z GM. Tam je asi za kilo, ale presne nevim.
Jakub Ladman

Dne ?t 25. dubna 2006 09:42 Karel Kulhavy napsal(a):
> On Mon, Apr 24, 2006 at 01:17:15PM +0200, WaCX wrote:
> > O tomhle nic nevim ale izopropylalk. maji ve firme hichem ktera sidli v
> > arealu VU Bechovice kde mam pocit sidli i Pragoboard:-), jinak ho maji i
> > v drogerii v centru prahy ul.Zlatnicka.
>
> A je nejak vyrazne drazsi nez obyc alkohol?
>
> Nekdo tu tvrdil ze ten alkohol vzlina ale on ten alkohol je dost
> tekavej - tak to by mel zase promptne vyvzlinat ven a odparit se, ne?
>
> Jak se zjistilo ze poskozeni svabu je vzlinanim alkoholu?
>
> Voda ma jeste mensi molekuly nez ethylalkohol a tudiz kde vzlina
> alkohol, i voda by mela vzlinat. Jak muze alkohol poskodit cip svou
> pouhou pritomnosti? Slysel jsem o poskozeni sodikovymi ionty ktere jsou
> pry rozpustne v SiO2 a migruji v nem a zmeni vlastnosti tranzistoru,
> ale jak muze alkohol poskodit?
>
> CL<
>
> > wacx
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Karel Kulhavy" <clock na twibright.com>
> > To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja na lists.pointless.net>
> > Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 11:01 AM
> > Subject: [Ronja] Denatured alcohol vs. isopropyl
> >
> > > Does anyone have a confirmation that denatured alcohol can damage
> > > electronics
> > > when used for rinsing PCB from colophonium and that isopropyl alcohol
> > > should be used instead? Denatured alcohol == methylated spirit.
> > >
> > > Muze nekdo potvrdit zda denaturovany alkohol by se nemel pouzivat na
> > > oplachovani tistaku od kalafuny a ze by se mel pouzivat jinak
> > > izopropyl? Jinak pripisu do navodu denaturak protoze se snadno shani a
> > > je levnej.
> > >
> > > CL<
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Ronja mailing list
> > > Ronja na lists.pointless.net
> > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ronja mailing list
> > Ronja na lists.pointless.net
> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja

_______________________________________________
Ronja mailing list
Ronja na lists.pointless.net
http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


__________ Informace od NOD32 1.1454 (20060321) __________

Tato zprava byla proverena antivirovym systemem NOD32.
http://www.nod32.cz





------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 21:05:25 +0200
From: Jakub Michn?k <jakub.michnik na centrum.cz>
Subject: [Ronja] hackovatelne switche
To: Twibright Ronja <ronja na lists.pointless.net>
Message-ID: <444E72F5.80302 na centrum.cz>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-2; format=flowed

chtel jsem se zeptat jake switche ktere jsou zrovna v prodeji maji ten 
cip, ktery jde nastavit natvrdo na 10Mbps FD. byl to tusim RTL8305SB. 
nerad bych kupoval neco zkusmo, oni ten sortiment v PC obchodech meni 
tak rychle ze je mozna mozne ze se uz switche s tim cipem ani nedelaji 
.. tak pokud ma nekdo aktualni informace budu za ne vdecny... diky moc



------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 21:17:04 +0200
From: Pavel Krejci <krepa na seznam.cz>
Subject: Re: [Ronja] hackovatelne switche
To: Twibright Ronja <ronja na lists.pointless.net>
Message-ID: <444E75B0.2050403 na seznam.cz>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Tyhle dva jdou hacknout na 100%
Ale je to RTL8305SC
Ten druhej je 8 port.
S ronjou jsem je jeste nezkousel, nicmene ten 5port jsem pomoci eepromky 
hacknul na VLAN (8port by mel jit taky) :o)

http://www.alzasoft.cz/d40073/18842923/edimax-es-3105p-5port-10-100-switch-p
last.htm 
| 
http://www.alzasoft.cz/d40074/18842923/edimax-es-3108p-8port-10-100-switch-1
28kb-buffer.htm 


Jakub Michn?k napsal(a):
> chtel jsem se zeptat jake switche ktere jsou zrovna v prodeji maji ten 
> cip, ktery jde nastavit natvrdo na 10Mbps FD. byl to tusim RTL8305SB. 
> nerad bych kupoval neco zkusmo, oni ten sortiment v PC obchodech meni 
> tak rychle ze je mozna mozne ze se uz switche s tim cipem ani nedelaji 
> .. tak pokud ma nekdo aktualni informace budu za ne vdecny... diky moc
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 




------------------------------

_______________________________________________
Ronja mailing list
Ronja na lists.pointless.net
http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


End of Ronja Digest, Vol 36, Issue 24
*************************************




------------------------------

_______________________________________________
Ronja mailing list
Ronja na lists.pointless.net
http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


End of Ronja Digest, Vol 36, Issue 25
*************************************



From honza at hoidekr.net  Tue Apr 25 23:03:16 2006
From: honza at hoidekr.net (Jan Hoidekr)
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 00:03:16 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] hackovatelne switche
In-Reply-To: <444E7623.3000308@hkfree.org>
References: <444E72F5.80302@centrum.cz> <444E7623.3000308@hkfree.org>
Message-ID: <444E9CA4.3010504@hoidekr.net>

Delal jsem upravu techto switchu pro Ronju. Na jedne strane SB na druhe 
SC varianta. Kazda ma trochu jiny pinout, musi se uzemnit jine piny, viz 
datasheet.
Zkusenost? Zbytecna prace. Vyzkousejte si dva pocitace proti sobe s 
nastavenym 10FD pres switch. V jednom smeru funguji dobre, ale jakmile 
pridate druhy smer, zacne prenosova rychlost "houpat" a v souctu to neni 
o moc vic nez HD. Neni to problem 10Mb, ale ani pri 100Mb neumi 
fullduplex. Opet lze jednoduse vyzkouset.
Uplne stejne se pak chovaji kdyz je nastavite natvrdo na 10FD prepajenim 
a spojite kabelem (nebo Ronja mezi nimi).

Honza
PS: Mozna jsem nekde neudelal chybu, kdyztak me opravte a poradte.

Kendy wrote:
> Edimax ES-3105P (ma RTL8305SC, ale je to to same jako ten SB)
> Cena do 400,-
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jakub Michn?k napsal(a):
> 
> 
>>chtel jsem se zeptat jake switche ktere jsou zrovna v prodeji maji ten 
>>cip, ktery jde nastavit natvrdo na 10Mbps FD. byl to tusim RTL8305SB. 
>>nerad bych kupoval neco zkusmo, oni ten sortiment v PC obchodech meni 
>>tak rychle ze je mozna mozne ze se uz switche s tim cipem ani nedelaji 
>>.. tak pokud ma nekdo aktualni informace budu za ne vdecny... diky moc
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Ronja mailing list
>>Ronja at lists.pointless.net
>>http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>>
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 


From kendy at hkfree.org  Tue Apr 25 23:09:10 2006
From: kendy at hkfree.org (Kendy)
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 00:09:10 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] hackovatelne switche
In-Reply-To: <444E9CA4.3010504@hoidekr.net>
References: <444E72F5.80302@centrum.cz> <444E7623.3000308@hkfree.org>
	<444E9CA4.3010504@hoidekr.net>
Message-ID: <444E9E06.4030806@hkfree.org>

Ja to testoval na 2 PC s Linuxama a jelo to naprosto bez problemu (v 
obou smerech 1130 KB/sec), to co popisujes vypada, ze si spatne nastavil 
na tvych sitovkach FD. mno nevim na ktery datasheet si koukal ty, ale ja 
nenasel rozdil tech dulezitych pinu mezi SB a SC. Mozna si to uz 
nepamatuju (ladil sem to naposledy loni v srpnu), ale mam v zive pameti, 
ze nastaveni 10, FD jsou stejne nohy jak u SB tak i u SC...



Jan Hoidekr napsal(a):

> Delal jsem upravu techto switchu pro Ronju. Na jedne strane SB na druhe 
> SC varianta. Kazda ma trochu jiny pinout, musi se uzemnit jine piny, viz 
> datasheet.
> Zkusenost? Zbytecna prace. Vyzkousejte si dva pocitace proti sobe s 
> nastavenym 10FD pres switch. V jednom smeru funguji dobre, ale jakmile 
> pridate druhy smer, zacne prenosova rychlost "houpat" a v souctu to neni 
> o moc vic nez HD. Neni to problem 10Mb, ale ani pri 100Mb neumi 
> fullduplex. Opet lze jednoduse vyzkouset.
> Uplne stejne se pak chovaji kdyz je nastavite natvrdo na 10FD prepajenim 
> a spojite kabelem (nebo Ronja mezi nimi).
> 
> Honza
> PS: Mozna jsem nekde neudelal chybu, kdyztak me opravte a poradte.
> 
> Kendy wrote:
> 
>>Edimax ES-3105P (ma RTL8305SC, ale je to to same jako ten SB)
>>Cena do 400,-
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Jakub Michn?k napsal(a):
>>
>>
>>
>>>chtel jsem se zeptat jake switche ktere jsou zrovna v prodeji maji ten 
>>>cip, ktery jde nastavit natvrdo na 10Mbps FD. byl to tusim RTL8305SB. 
>>>nerad bych kupoval neco zkusmo, oni ten sortiment v PC obchodech meni 
>>>tak rychle ze je mozna mozne ze se uz switche s tim cipem ani nedelaji 
>>>.. tak pokud ma nekdo aktualni informace budu za ne vdecny... diky moc
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Ronja mailing list
>>>Ronja na lists.pointless.net
>>>http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Ronja mailing list
>>Ronja na lists.pointless.net
>>http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>>
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 


From quintusmurray at yahoo.com  Wed Apr 26 00:40:09 2006
From: quintusmurray at yahoo.com (Quintus Murray)
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 16:40:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Ronja] Ronja Digest, Vol 36, Issue 25
In-Reply-To: <mailman.461.1145994756.22549.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
Message-ID: <20060425234009.66591.qmail@web53414.mail.yahoo.com>


you can try beam separators and place the AP part on top of the ronja. This would make the ronja look like a missile launcher or maybe it's possible to connect external Access points to the ronja like 802.11g or n when N is standardized depending on the speed of the ronja models just incase you guys develop a 100 or 1000 Mbits model.

		
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Mail goes everywhere you do.  Get it on your phone.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20060425/cb9ba31f/attachment.html 

From honza at hoidekr.net  Wed Apr 26 01:05:02 2006
From: honza at hoidekr.net (Jan Hoidekr)
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 02:05:02 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] hackovatelne switche
In-Reply-To: <444E9E06.4030806@hkfree.org>
References: <444E72F5.80302@centrum.cz>
	<444E7623.3000308@hkfree.org>	<444E9CA4.3010504@hoidekr.net>
	<444E9E06.4030806@hkfree.org>
Message-ID: <444EB92E.40901@hoidekr.net>

SB x SC
napr. PIN95 u obou po resetu nastavuje skupinu portu - OK, ale
SC - LED_DUP[4] je na nej pripojena LED duplexu portu 4, nemusite 
letovat nozicku, ale staci sahnou na danou LED (a ted pozor, kdyz 
vezmete druhy switch SB a chcete udelat stejny postup)
SB - LED_ADD[2] pin neni zapojen, musite letovat primo na pin

z toho duvodu upravene switche ruznych verzi jinak "sviti", kdyz je 
preletujete
takova mala hloupost, ale pridela starosti ...

Zkusim testovat prenos znovu pres switch, ale testoval jsem linuxy i 
wins a nikde to neslo podle mych predstav. Zkousel jsem pres dva switche 
PC---switch---switch---PC, ale nenapada me duvod proc by dva mely byt 
jiny nez jeden.

Honza

Kendy wrote:
> Ja to testoval na 2 PC s Linuxama a jelo to naprosto bez problemu (v 
> obou smerech 1130 KB/sec), to co popisujes vypada, ze si spatne nastavil 
> na tvych sitovkach FD. mno nevim na ktery datasheet si koukal ty, ale ja 
> nenasel rozdil tech dulezitych pinu mezi SB a SC. Mozna si to uz 
> nepamatuju (ladil sem to naposledy loni v srpnu), ale mam v zive pameti, 
> ze nastaveni 10, FD jsou stejne nohy jak u SB tak i u SC...
> 
> 
> 
> Jan Hoidekr napsal(a):
> 
> 
>>Delal jsem upravu techto switchu pro Ronju. Na jedne strane SB na druhe 
>>SC varianta. Kazda ma trochu jiny pinout, musi se uzemnit jine piny, viz 
>>datasheet.
>>Zkusenost? Zbytecna prace. Vyzkousejte si dva pocitace proti sobe s 
>>nastavenym 10FD pres switch. V jednom smeru funguji dobre, ale jakmile 
>>pridate druhy smer, zacne prenosova rychlost "houpat" a v souctu to neni 
>>o moc vic nez HD. Neni to problem 10Mb, ale ani pri 100Mb neumi 
>>fullduplex. Opet lze jednoduse vyzkouset.
>>Uplne stejne se pak chovaji kdyz je nastavite natvrdo na 10FD prepajenim 
>>a spojite kabelem (nebo Ronja mezi nimi).
>>
>>Honza
>>PS: Mozna jsem nekde neudelal chybu, kdyztak me opravte a poradte.
>>
>>Kendy wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Edimax ES-3105P (ma RTL8305SC, ale je to to same jako ten SB)
>>>Cena do 400,-
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Jakub Michn?k napsal(a):
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>chtel jsem se zeptat jake switche ktere jsou zrovna v prodeji maji ten 
>>>>cip, ktery jde nastavit natvrdo na 10Mbps FD. byl to tusim RTL8305SB. 
>>>>nerad bych kupoval neco zkusmo, oni ten sortiment v PC obchodech meni 
>>>>tak rychle ze je mozna mozne ze se uz switche s tim cipem ani nedelaji 
>>>>.. tak pokud ma nekdo aktualni informace budu za ne vdecny... diky moc
>>>>
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>Ronja mailing list
>>>>Ronja at lists.pointless.net
>>>>http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Ronja mailing list
>>>Ronja at lists.pointless.net
>>>http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Ronja mailing list
>>Ronja at lists.pointless.net
>>http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>>
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 


From clock at twibright.com  Wed Apr 26 14:34:34 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 15:34:34 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Denatured alcohol vs. isopropyl
In-Reply-To: <MFEBKHPDNDJBNFMLEMJEKEFNCCAA.kucera_jiri@volny.cz>
References: <200604251331.37116.ladmanj@volny.cz>
	<MFEBKHPDNDJBNFMLEMJEKEFNCCAA.kucera_jiri@volny.cz>
Message-ID: <20060426133434.GA31290@kestrel.barix.local>

On Tue, Apr 25, 2006 at 08:22:17PM +0200, Jiri Kucera wrote:
> ??dn? vedeck? pojedn?n? jsem u? nena?el. Ale ji? jsem v?m tu uvedl ?e v m?m
> dnes ji? neexistuj?c?m podniku byly zku?enosti s oci?ten?mi lihem plo?n?ky
> odzkou?en? a ulo?en? na sklad. Teprve po pul roce se zjistilo, ?e nekter?
> plo?n?ky jsou nefunkcn?. Vzl?nalo to do IO kolem no?icek a po?kodilo to cip.
> Pri?lo striktn? nar?zen? na pou??v?n? izopropylu a v?sledek byl bezchybn?.
> Doporucuji jednoznacne izopropyl, zvl??te tam kde v?m na tom z?le??. Je to
> opravdu zalo?eno na velikosti molekul.

Hm tak to kdyz po prechodu na izopropyl problem zmizel tak to je celkem
pravdepodobne ze to bylo tim lihem :)

CL<
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ronja-bounces+kucera_jiri=volny.cz at lists.pointless.net
> [mailto:ronja-bounces+kucera_jiri=volny.cz at lists.pointless.net]On Behalf Of
> Jakub Ladman
> Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 1:32 PM
> To: Twibright Ronja
> Subject: Re: [Ronja] Denatured alcohol vs. isopropyl
> 
> 
> Zadny vedecky pojednani jak to vlastne je s tim lihem jsem necetl, ale
> protoze
> to ke mne prislom z duveryhodnych zdroju, tak se tim ridim.
> Ostatne podle me zkusenosti isopropyl cisti lepe nez lih.
> Drazsi je ale ne nijak zavratne.
> Ja jsem si ted nechaval kupovat litr do prace a poilal jsem tady kolegu do
> zlatnicky do drogerie, protoze tam byva levnejsi, ale kolega byl linej a
> dotahl ho z GM. Tam je asi za kilo, ale presne nevim.
> Jakub Ladman
> 
> Dne ?t 25. dubna 2006 09:42 Karel Kulhavy napsal(a):
> > On Mon, Apr 24, 2006 at 01:17:15PM +0200, WaCX wrote:
> > > O tomhle nic nevim ale izopropylalk. maji ve firme hichem ktera sidli v
> > > arealu VU Bechovice kde mam pocit sidli i Pragoboard:-), jinak ho maji i
> > > v drogerii v centru prahy ul.Zlatnicka.
> >
> > A je nejak vyrazne drazsi nez obyc alkohol?
> >
> > Nekdo tu tvrdil ze ten alkohol vzlina ale on ten alkohol je dost
> > tekavej - tak to by mel zase promptne vyvzlinat ven a odparit se, ne?
> >
> > Jak se zjistilo ze poskozeni svabu je vzlinanim alkoholu?
> >
> > Voda ma jeste mensi molekuly nez ethylalkohol a tudiz kde vzlina
> > alkohol, i voda by mela vzlinat. Jak muze alkohol poskodit cip svou
> > pouhou pritomnosti? Slysel jsem o poskozeni sodikovymi ionty ktere jsou
> > pry rozpustne v SiO2 a migruji v nem a zmeni vlastnosti tranzistoru,
> > ale jak muze alkohol poskodit?
> >
> > CL<
> >
> > > wacx
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Karel Kulhavy" <clock at twibright.com>
> > > To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
> > > Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 11:01 AM
> > > Subject: [Ronja] Denatured alcohol vs. isopropyl
> > >
> > > > Does anyone have a confirmation that denatured alcohol can damage
> > > > electronics
> > > > when used for rinsing PCB from colophonium and that isopropyl alcohol
> > > > should be used instead? Denatured alcohol == methylated spirit.
> > > >
> > > > Muze nekdo potvrdit zda denaturovany alkohol by se nemel pouzivat na
> > > > oplachovani tistaku od kalafuny a ze by se mel pouzivat jinak
> > > > izopropyl? Jinak pripisu do navodu denaturak protoze se snadno shani a
> > > > je levnej.
> > > >
> > > > CL<
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Ronja mailing list
> > > > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Ronja mailing list
> > > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ronja mailing list
> > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 
> 
> __________ Informace od NOD32 1.1454 (20060321) __________
> 
> Tato zprava byla proverena antivirovym systemem NOD32.
> http://www.nod32.cz
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From clock at twibright.com  Wed Apr 26 15:01:38 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 16:01:38 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] modifing the ronja source code
In-Reply-To: <444E6628.4080807@kbx.cz>
References: <20060425173257.48730.qmail@web53410.mail.yahoo.com>
	<444E6628.4080807@kbx.cz>
Message-ID: <20060426140138.GB31290@kestrel.barix.local>

On Tue, Apr 25, 2006 at 08:10:48PM +0200, Jakub Sykora wrote:
> btw: How old are You Quintus? I am 23 and it is obvious to me, that 
> ronja design is HARDWARE design and not a software one.
> So the answer is YES - you can use it this way, if you can twist Ronja 
> design to Access Point - When you are finished post us some photos - I 
> am really wondering, how can Ronja design can act as an access point. I 
> always thought that small divergence of the beam makes this impossible...
> The next issue is, that 802.11n is not standardized yet...
> 
> Dela si z nas porad fakt prdel, nebo to mysli vazne? Skoro zacinam 
> premyslet o tom, jestli to neni automat postavenej na nekolika neuronech...

Ja nevim - to se asi neda nejak exaktne definovat hranice mezi delanim si
prdele, blbosti a umyslnym trollovanim. Clovek to sam nemusi vedet.
Napriklad se rika ze Schindler sam neznal duvod, proc zachranil 1200
zidu pred holocaustem:
"No one really knows what Schindler's motives were, including
Schindler."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oskar_Schindler

Lidsky mozek pracuje metodou "neco z toho vyjde" a pricina proc to tak
vyslo je "protoze to proste tak vyslo".

Ja myslim ze to je jako s bunecnymi automaty - bunecny automat s
pravidlem 30 generuje chaoticky vystup.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_30

Na zacatku je jedna tecka a pravidlo jednoduche jak facka - ktere se da
zakodovat do 8 bitu (nebo dokonce jen 4 bitu kdyz vyuzijeme vlastnosti
ze v kazdem prirozenem cisle musi nejaky jednickovy bit byt zakonite
ten nejvyssi :) ). A generuje to nepochopitelny vzor.

Otazka zni - proc to generuje takovy vzor? Odpoved zni - no protoze kdyz
se to pusti, tak ho to fakt generuje - zkuste si to.

Ja si myslim ze je treba si zvyknout ze logika popisuje nas svet jen
castecne. Ten zbytek je ireducibilni. Jednou soucasti toho
ireducibilniho zbytku je Quintus Murray. Logika stejne nikdy nebude
poradne fungovat, protoze ani takovou zakladni vec jako definice neni
mozne definovat. A matematici se nejsou schopni dohodnout ani na
takovych zakladnich terminech jako co povazovat za dukaz a co ne:

"Computer-assisted proofs are the subject of much controversy in the
mathematical world. Some mathematicians believe that lengthy
computer-assisted proofs are not, in some sense, real mathematical
proofs because they involve so many logical steps that they are not
practically verifiable by human beings, and that mathematicians are
effectively being asked to put their trust in computer programming."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer-assisted_proof

Odpovedi na otazkou na to proc to Quintus Murray dela muze byt "protoze
proste konfigurace elektrickych potencialu v jeho mozku v ten okamzik
byla zrovna ta, co vyustuje v presne tohle chovani". A nebo taky muze
bejt "matematicka veta: Quintus Murray se bude v teto situaci chovat
presne takto. Dukaz: viz computer assisted proof ktery byl proveden
metodou spusteni objektu Quintus Murray na vykonnem pocitaci jmenem
Vesmir (TM)". Ta druha odpoved funguje pouze pokud clovek veri v
determinismus.

Muzete hodit po Quintusovi kamen nebo ho kopnout do prdele ale jenom se
proboha nesnazte zjistit, proc to dela :)

Quintus Murray *je* automat postavenej na nekolika neuronech, jen to
"nekolik" je pomerne velke prirozene cislo :)

I couldn't concentrate on what I wanted to order which lost me my place
in the que I waited for. Now nothing holds significance and nothing
holds relevance because the only thing I can see is her elegance.

CL<
> 
> K
> 
> Quintus Murray wrote:
> >so I would like to know if I can use the open-source code of the ronja 
> >to use it as a wi-fi access point???? or share it's internet and be used 
> >as an ethernet switch to connect to a supernode for combined 
> >bandwidth???? plus if yes what devices do I need to use the ronja as an 
> >802.11N or G access point or AP/router?????
> >
> >------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger?s low PC-to-Phone call 
> >rates. 
> ><http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail_us/taglines/postman8/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=39663/*http://voice.yahoo.com>
> >
> >
> > <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail_us/taglines/postman8/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=39663/*http://voice.yahoo.com>
> >------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Ronja mailing list
> >Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> >http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> > <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail_us/taglines/postman8/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=39663/*http://voice.yahoo.com>
> 
> -- 
> Jakub S?kora
> email: kubajz at kbx.cz       <')
> ICQ: 68976632               ( =-
> mobil: +420 777 594 201      ''

> begin:vcard
> fn;quoted-printable:Jakub S=C3=BDkora
> n;quoted-printable:S=C3=BDkora;Jakub
> adr;quoted-printable:;;=C3=9Adoln=C3=AD 1273;Praha 4;;14200;Czech Republic
> email;internet:kubajz at kbx.cz
> tel;cell:+420 777 594 201
> url:http://kubajz.kbx.cz
> version:2.1
> end:vcard
> 

> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja



From clock at twibright.com  Wed Apr 26 21:34:26 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 22:34:26 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] modifing the ronja source code
In-Reply-To: <20060425173257.48730.qmail@web53410.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.444.1145962616.22549.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
	<20060425173257.48730.qmail@web53410.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20060426203425.GA18239@kestrel.barix.local>

On Tue, Apr 25, 2006 at 10:32:57AM -0700, Quintus Murray wrote:
> so I would like to know if I can use the open-source code of the ronja
> to use it as a wi-fi access point???? or share it's internet and be

You can use the open source code of Ronja for anything you want provided
that you comply to the applicable copyright law and the licence
governing Ronja (mostly GNU FDL, see "License" on Ronja homepage for
details).

> used as an ethernet switch to connect to a supernode for combined
> bandwidth???? plus if yes what devices do I need to use the ronja as
> an 802.11N or G access point or AP/router?????

Your question doesn't make sense to me. If you meant using Ronja in a
hybrid network with WiFi then this is often done. Usually Ronja for
backbones and AP's with WiFi clients for the end hop.

CL<

> 
> 		
> ---------------------------------
> How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger?s low  PC-to-Phone call rates.
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja



From clock at twibright.com  Wed Apr 26 21:36:53 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 22:36:53 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Ronja Digest, Vol 36, Issue 25
In-Reply-To: <20060425234009.66591.qmail@web53414.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.461.1145994756.22549.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
	<20060425234009.66591.qmail@web53414.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20060426203650.GB18239@kestrel.barix.local>

On Tue, Apr 25, 2006 at 04:40:09PM -0700, Quintus Murray wrote:
> 
> you can try beam separators and place the AP part on top of the ronja.

The separation of RX and TX into separate head actually is a beam
separator.

> This would make the ronja look like a missile launcher or maybe it's

I think that Ronja already looks like a missile launcher :)

CL<

> possible to connect external Access points to the ronja like 802.11g
> or n when N is standardized depending on the speed of the ronja models
> just incase you guys develop a 100 or 1000 Mbits model.

> 
> 		
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Mail goes everywhere you do.  Get it on your phone.
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja



From mixaj at mymail.cz  Wed Apr 26 22:36:51 2006
From: mixaj at mymail.cz (Jaroslav Mixa)
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 23:36:51 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] wifi
References: <20060425173257.48730.qmail@web53410.mail.yahoo.com><444E6628.4080807@kbx.cz>
	<001b01c6689e$59498630$0201a8c0@wacxnote>
Message-ID: <001901c66979$892a2e00$d221a8c0@diablo>

Takze dobry na zaruseni cele oblasti :/



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "WaCX" <wacx na email.cz>
To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja na lists.pointless.net>
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 9:27 PM
Subject: Re: [Ronja] wifi


> jen tak btw,
> 802.11n uz asi bude
> http://www.czechcomputer.cz/art_doc-51C39E5EC1D8BAA3C125715A005A9BDA.html
> 
> wacx
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From Divis.M at seznam.cz  Thu Apr 27 09:58:05 2006
From: Divis.M at seznam.cz (=?iso-8859-2?Q?Michal=20Divi=B9?=)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 10:58:05 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Ronja] Prevodnik 100Mbit -> 20(25Mbit)
Message-ID: <1749.4189-4600-567842976-1146128285@seznam.cz>

Ahoj, 
rad bych se zeptal na jednu vec - soucasna Ronja je delana na 10Mbit FD, obcas by se ale hodilo vic - napr. pokud je pouzita pro paterni spoj vetsi wifi site, ktera ma pronajate od poskytovatele 15-20Mbit conectivity. A jak jsem se dival na specifikace soucastek, tak by tech 20Mbit Ronja mozna i zvladla, takze bych se rad zeptal, jestli existuji nejaky prevodniky, ktere by se pripojovaly pres 100Mbit sitovku/switch, ale snizovaly by rychlost tak na 1/4 nebo 1/5.
Mam dojem, ze jsem zahlidl nejakou zminku na forech CZfree, ale tedka kdyz jsem to zpetne hledal, tak jsem to nemohl najit.

Michal



From ladmanj at volny.cz  Thu Apr 27 10:02:15 2006
From: ladmanj at volny.cz (Jakub Ladman)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 11:02:15 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] To musite videt / you must see this
Message-ID: <200604271102.16153.ladmanj@volny.cz>

http://bleesmrt.hopto.org/~ladmanj/aqvarium/
aneb co silikagel nepobral


From Divis.M at seznam.cz  Thu Apr 27 11:04:54 2006
From: Divis.M at seznam.cz (=?iso-8859-2?Q?Michal=20Divi=B9?=)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 12:04:54 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Ronja] TX a ruseni TV
Message-ID: <1749.4189-9344-410955897-1146132294@seznam.cz>

Ahoj, 
mam problem s jednou instalaci Ronji - sousedovi to rusi TV, ani antena ani Ronja ale nemuze byt umistena jinde, slysel jsem, ze to nekdo resil pridanim keram. kondenzatoru, ale uz jsem na netu nenasel kam ho pridaval.
Neporadil by nekdo?
Michal


From kubajz at kbx.cz  Thu Apr 27 11:32:32 2006
From: kubajz at kbx.cz (Jakub Sykora)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 12:32:32 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] To musite videt / you must see this
In-Reply-To: <200604271102.16153.ladmanj@volny.cz>
References: <200604271102.16153.ladmanj@volny.cz>
Message-ID: <44509DC0.8040506@kbx.cz>

A to je hodne hezky! Jak se to podarilo? Spatne tesneni, nebo jste se 
rozhodli, ze nefunkcni link se da opravit jen vykoupanim v rece? :)

Ja jen, abychom se podobnemu extremu vyhnuli...

K

Jakub Ladman napsal(a):
> http://bleesmrt.hopto.org/~ladmanj/aqvarium/
> aneb co silikagel nepobral
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja

-- 
Jakub S?kora
email: kubajz na kbx.cz       <')
ICQ: 68976632               ( =-
mobil: +420 777 594 201      ''
------------- dal?? ??st ---------------
Netextov? p??loha byla odstran?na...
Jm?no: kubajz.vcf
Typ: text/x-vcard
Velikost: 265 bytes
Popis: [??dn? popis nen? k dispozici]
Url : http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20060427/ca32fa0e/attachment.vcf 

From seligr at sh.cvut.cz  Thu Apr 27 11:40:28 2006
From: seligr at sh.cvut.cz (Petr Seliger)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 12:40:28 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Prevodnik 100Mbit -> 20(25Mbit)
In-Reply-To: <1749.4189-4600-567842976-1146128285@seznam.cz>
References: <1749.4189-4600-567842976-1146128285@seznam.cz>
Message-ID: <1146134428.44509f9c05ef8@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>

Jo, tohle delal Jan Kral. Je to hack s CPLD a RTL8305 kde ten CPLD vycita data
rychlosti 25Mbit. Pokud vim melo to nejake mouchy, ale princip dobry. Samotny TX
a RX umoznuje prohnat data s manchester kodovanim rychlosti pres 30Mbps.


> Ahoj, 
> rad bych se zeptal na jednu vec - soucasna Ronja je delana na 10Mbit FD,
> obcas by se ale hodilo vic - napr. pokud je pouzita pro paterni spoj vetsi
> wifi site, ktera ma pronajate od poskytovatele 15-20Mbit conectivity. A jak
> jsem se dival na specifikace soucastek, tak by tech 20Mbit Ronja mozna i
> zvladla, takze bych se rad zeptal, jestli existuji nejaky prevodniky, ktere
> by se pripojovaly pres 100Mbit sitovku/switch, ale snizovaly by rychlost tak
> na 1/4 nebo 1/5.
> Mam dojem, ze jsem zahlidl nejakou zminku na forech CZfree, ale tedka kdyz
> jsem to zpetne hledal, tak jsem to nemohl najit.
> 
> Michal
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 





From seligr at sh.cvut.cz  Thu Apr 27 11:47:47 2006
From: seligr at sh.cvut.cz (Petr Seliger)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 12:47:47 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] To musite videt / you must see this
In-Reply-To: <200604271102.16153.ladmanj@volny.cz>
References: <200604271102.16153.ladmanj@volny.cz>
Message-ID: <1146134867.4450a1539a131@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>

Cituji z emailu od Jakub Ladman <ladmanj at volny.cz>:

> http://bleesmrt.hopto.org/~ladmanj/aqvarium/
> aneb co silikagel nepobral
> 
Jak my antenari rikame: "nejlepsi tesneni je dira."
 





From kubajz at kbx.cz  Thu Apr 27 11:51:50 2006
From: kubajz at kbx.cz (Jakub Sykora)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 12:51:50 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Prevodnik 100Mbit -> 20(25Mbit)
In-Reply-To: <1146134428.44509f9c05ef8@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
References: <1749.4189-4600-567842976-1146128285@seznam.cz>
	<1146134428.44509f9c05ef8@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
Message-ID: <4450A246.1000900@kbx.cz>

Chces tim rict, ze staci pouzit podobny prevodnik a z Ronjy je razem 
20Mbps ev. vic FD?
Jak je to s twisterem? Ten by se v tomto pripade nepouzil nebo by se 
pouzil bez zmeny?

Diky,

K

Petr Seliger napsal(a):
> Jo, tohle delal Jan Kral. Je to hack s CPLD a RTL8305 kde ten CPLD vycita data
> rychlosti 25Mbit. Pokud vim melo to nejake mouchy, ale princip dobry. Samotny TX
> a RX umoznuje prohnat data s manchester kodovanim rychlosti pres 30Mbps.
> 
> 
>> Ahoj, 
>> rad bych se zeptal na jednu vec - soucasna Ronja je delana na 10Mbit FD,
>> obcas by se ale hodilo vic - napr. pokud je pouzita pro paterni spoj vetsi
>> wifi site, ktera ma pronajate od poskytovatele 15-20Mbit conectivity. A jak
>> jsem se dival na specifikace soucastek, tak by tech 20Mbit Ronja mozna i
>> zvladla, takze bych se rad zeptal, jestli existuji nejaky prevodniky, ktere
>> by se pripojovaly pres 100Mbit sitovku/switch, ale snizovaly by rychlost tak
>> na 1/4 nebo 1/5.
>> Mam dojem, ze jsem zahlidl nejakou zminku na forech CZfree, ale tedka kdyz
>> jsem to zpetne hledal, tak jsem to nemohl najit.
>>
>> Michal
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ronja mailing list
>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja

-- 
Jakub S?kora
email: kubajz na kbx.cz       <')
ICQ: 68976632               ( =-
mobil: +420 777 594 201      ''
------------- dal?? ??st ---------------
Netextov? p??loha byla odstran?na...
Jm?no: kubajz.vcf
Typ: text/x-vcard
Velikost: 265 bytes
Popis: [??dn? popis nen? k dispozici]
Url : http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20060427/6eefdfac/attachment.vcf 

From ladmanj at volny.cz  Thu Apr 27 12:13:25 2006
From: ladmanj at volny.cz (Jakub Ladman)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 13:13:25 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] To musite videt / you must see this
In-Reply-To: <1146134867.4450a1539a131@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
References: <200604271102.16153.ladmanj@volny.cz>
	<1146134867.4450a1539a131@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
Message-ID: <200604271313.25111.ladmanj@volny.cz>

Dne ?t 27. dubna 2006 12:47 Petr Seliger napsal(a):
> Cituji z emailu od Jakub Ladman <ladmanj at volny.cz>:
> > http://bleesmrt.hopto.org/~ladmanj/aqvarium/
> > aneb co silikagel nepobral
>
> Jak my antenari rikame: "nejlepsi tesneni je dira."
Presne tak, tesnit to je proste hovadina, musi to vetrat

>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From ladmanj at volny.cz  Thu Apr 27 12:23:23 2006
From: ladmanj at volny.cz (Jakub Ladman)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 13:23:23 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Prevodnik 100Mbit -> 20(25Mbit)
In-Reply-To: <4450A246.1000900@kbx.cz>
References: <1749.4189-4600-567842976-1146128285@seznam.cz>
	<1146134428.44509f9c05ef8@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
	<4450A246.1000900@kbx.cz>
Message-ID: <200604271323.23896.ladmanj@volny.cz>

Dne ?t 27. dubna 2006 12:51 Jakub Sykora napsal(a):
> Chces tim rict, ze staci pouzit podobny prevodnik a z Ronjy je razem
> 20Mbps ev. vic FD?
V zasede jo. V podstate by se musel jeste asi pretaktovat generator link 
integrity pulsu v twisteru. Aby to pretaktovana sitovka povazovala za 
spravny.

Uvazoval jsem o malym stroji, s nejakym armem, nebo podobnym bordelem se dvema 
sitovkami, jedna 100Mbit/s a druha 10Mbit/s volitelne pretaktovana na 
150-200-250-300% 
Jako na jedny aplikaci s 32bit riscem a embedded linuxem delam v praci, takze 
zkusenosti by i byly, ale neni cas.

Jakub Ladman

> Jak je to s twisterem? Ten by se v tomto pripade nepouzil nebo by se
> pouzil bez zmeny?
>
> Diky,
>
> K
>
> Petr Seliger napsal(a):
> > Jo, tohle delal Jan Kral. Je to hack s CPLD a RTL8305 kde ten CPLD vycita
> > data rychlosti 25Mbit. Pokud vim melo to nejake mouchy, ale princip
> > dobry. Samotny TX a RX umoznuje prohnat data s manchester kodovanim
> > rychlosti pres 30Mbps.
> >
> >> Ahoj,
> >> rad bych se zeptal na jednu vec - soucasna Ronja je delana na 10Mbit FD,
> >> obcas by se ale hodilo vic - napr. pokud je pouzita pro paterni spoj
> >> vetsi wifi site, ktera ma pronajate od poskytovatele 15-20Mbit
> >> conectivity. A jak jsem se dival na specifikace soucastek, tak by tech
> >> 20Mbit Ronja mozna i zvladla, takze bych se rad zeptal, jestli existuji
> >> nejaky prevodniky, ktere by se pripojovaly pres 100Mbit sitovku/switch,
> >> ale snizovaly by rychlost tak na 1/4 nebo 1/5.
> >> Mam dojem, ze jsem zahlidl nejakou zminku na forech CZfree, ale tedka
> >> kdyz jsem to zpetne hledal, tak jsem to nemohl najit.
> >>
> >> Michal
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Ronja mailing list
> >> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> >> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ronja mailing list
> > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From sith at wifistar.net  Thu Apr 27 12:42:47 2006
From: sith at wifistar.net (=?UTF-8?B?RGF2aWQgU2VkbMOhxI1law==?=)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 11:42:47 +0000
Subject: [Ronja] To musite videt / you must see this
In-Reply-To: <200604271102.16153.ladmanj@volny.cz>
References: <200604271102.16153.ladmanj@volny.cz>
Message-ID: <4450AE37.7090207@wifistar.net>

Pekny tuning :)).

Jakub Ladman napsal(a):
> http://bleesmrt.hopto.org/~ladmanj/aqvarium/
> aneb co silikagel nepobral
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 

-- 
Regards,
David Sedl??ek
WiFiStar.net, o.s.
skype: sith_cz


From jakub.michnik at centrum.cz  Thu Apr 27 13:09:04 2006
From: jakub.michnik at centrum.cz (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jakub_Michn=EDk?=)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 14:09:04 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] To musite videt / you must see this
In-Reply-To: <1146134867.4450a1539a131@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
References: <200604271102.16153.ladmanj@volny.cz>
	<1146134867.4450a1539a131@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
Message-ID: <4450B460.4080405@centrum.cz>

co se tomu vlastne stalo? to byl pokus o totalni utesneni? jak je ta 
ronja stara? za jak douho se to tam dostalo?? ...

Petr Seliger napsal(a):
> Cituji z emailu od Jakub Ladman <ladmanj na volny.cz>:
>
>   
>> http://bleesmrt.hopto.org/~ladmanj/aqvarium/
>> aneb co silikagel nepobral
>>
>>     
> Jak my antenari rikame: "nejlepsi tesneni je dira."
>  
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>
>
>   



From jakub.michnik at centrum.cz  Thu Apr 27 13:16:34 2006
From: jakub.michnik at centrum.cz (=?ISO-8859-2?Q?Jakub_Michn=EDk?=)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 14:16:34 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Prevodnik 100Mbit -> 20(25Mbit)
In-Reply-To: <200604271323.23896.ladmanj@volny.cz>
References: <1749.4189-4600-567842976-1146128285@seznam.cz>	<1146134428.44509f9c05ef8@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>	<4450A246.1000900@kbx.cz>
	<200604271323.23896.ladmanj@volny.cz>
Message-ID: <4450B622.7090704@centrum.cz>

nejsou k tomu nejake podrobnejsi informace? nebo nechtel by Jan Kral k 
tomu neco napsat? jake to melo mouchy, co je treba udelat a tak? myslim 
ze zdvojnasobeni rychlosti je docela pekna myslenka, tak proc to 
nezkusit dotahnout do konce?

Jakub Ladman napsal(a):
> Dne ?t 27. dubna 2006 12:51 Jakub Sykora napsal(a):
>   
>> Chces tim rict, ze staci pouzit podobny prevodnik a z Ronjy je razem
>> 20Mbps ev. vic FD?
>>     
> V zasede jo. V podstate by se musel jeste asi pretaktovat generator link 
> integrity pulsu v twisteru. Aby to pretaktovana sitovka povazovala za 
> spravny.
>
> Uvazoval jsem o malym stroji, s nejakym armem, nebo podobnym bordelem se dvema 
> sitovkami, jedna 100Mbit/s a druha 10Mbit/s volitelne pretaktovana na 
> 150-200-250-300% 
> Jako na jedny aplikaci s 32bit riscem a embedded linuxem delam v praci, takze 
> zkusenosti by i byly, ale neni cas.
>
> Jakub Ladman
>
>   
>> Jak je to s twisterem? Ten by se v tomto pripade nepouzil nebo by se
>> pouzil bez zmeny?
>>
>> Diky,
>>
>> K
>>
>> Petr Seliger napsal(a):
>>     
>>> Jo, tohle delal Jan Kral. Je to hack s CPLD a RTL8305 kde ten CPLD vycita
>>> data rychlosti 25Mbit. Pokud vim melo to nejake mouchy, ale princip
>>> dobry. Samotny TX a RX umoznuje prohnat data s manchester kodovanim
>>> rychlosti pres 30Mbps.
>>>
>>>       
>>>> Ahoj,
>>>> rad bych se zeptal na jednu vec - soucasna Ronja je delana na 10Mbit FD,
>>>> obcas by se ale hodilo vic - napr. pokud je pouzita pro paterni spoj
>>>> vetsi wifi site, ktera ma pronajate od poskytovatele 15-20Mbit
>>>> conectivity. A jak jsem se dival na specifikace soucastek, tak by tech
>>>> 20Mbit Ronja mozna i zvladla, takze bych se rad zeptal, jestli existuji
>>>> nejaky prevodniky, ktere by se pripojovaly pres 100Mbit sitovku/switch,
>>>> ale snizovaly by rychlost tak na 1/4 nebo 1/5.
>>>> Mam dojem, ze jsem zahlidl nejakou zminku na forech CZfree, ale tedka
>>>> kdyz jsem to zpetne hledal, tak jsem to nemohl najit.
>>>>
>>>> Michal
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Ronja mailing list
>>>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
>>>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>>>>         
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Ronja mailing list
>>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
>>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>>>       
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>
>
>   



From seligr at sh.cvut.cz  Thu Apr 27 13:48:58 2006
From: seligr at sh.cvut.cz (Petr Seliger)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 14:48:58 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Prevodnik 100Mbit -> 20(25Mbit)
In-Reply-To: <4450A246.1000900@kbx.cz>
References: <1749.4189-4600-567842976-1146128285@seznam.cz>
	<1146134428.44509f9c05ef8@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
	<4450A246.1000900@kbx.cz>
Message-ID: <1146142138.4450bdba75db1@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>

Asi tak, misto twisteru je jibna skatule. Nebo prijit na to jak zprovoznit 2
sitovky token ring proti sobe a hned mas 16Mbps.

> Chces tim rict, ze staci pouzit podobny prevodnik a z Ronjy je razem 
> 20Mbps ev. vic FD?
> Jak je to s twisterem? Ten by se v tomto pripade nepouzil nebo by se 
> pouzil bez zmeny?
> 
> Diky,
> 
> K
> 
> Petr Seliger napsal(a):
> > Jo, tohle delal Jan Kral. Je to hack s CPLD a RTL8305 kde ten CPLD vycita
> data
> > rychlosti 25Mbit. Pokud vim melo to nejake mouchy, ale princip dobry.
> Samotny TX
> > a RX umoznuje prohnat data s manchester kodovanim rychlosti pres 30Mbps.
> > 
> > 
> >> Ahoj, 
> >> rad bych se zeptal na jednu vec - soucasna Ronja je delana na 10Mbit FD,
> >> obcas by se ale hodilo vic - napr. pokud je pouzita pro paterni spoj
> vetsi
> >> wifi site, ktera ma pronajate od poskytovatele 15-20Mbit conectivity. A
> jak
> >> jsem se dival na specifikace soucastek, tak by tech 20Mbit Ronja mozna i
> >> zvladla, takze bych se rad zeptal, jestli existuji nejaky prevodniky,
> ktere
> >> by se pripojovaly pres 100Mbit sitovku/switch, ale snizovaly by rychlost
> tak
> >> na 1/4 nebo 1/5.
> >> Mam dojem, ze jsem zahlidl nejakou zminku na forech CZfree, ale tedka
> kdyz
> >> jsem to zpetne hledal, tak jsem to nemohl najit.
> >>
> >> Michal
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Ronja mailing list
> >> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> >> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> >>
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ronja mailing list
> > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 
> -- 
> Jakub S?kora
> email: kubajz at kbx.cz       <')
> ICQ: 68976632               ( =-
> mobil: +420 777 594 201      ''
> 





From jdb at lartmaker.nl  Thu Apr 27 13:50:53 2006
From: jdb at lartmaker.nl (J.D. Bakker)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 14:50:53 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Prevodnik 100Mbit -> 20(25Mbit)
In-Reply-To: <4450B622.7090704@centrum.cz>
References: <1749.4189-4600-567842976-1146128285@seznam.cz>
	<1146134428.44509f9c05ef8@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>	<4450A246.1000900@kbx.cz>
	<200604271323.23896.ladmanj@volny.cz> <4450B622.7090704@centrum.cz>
Message-ID: <a06230911c0766da19c17@[130.161.115.44]>

Hi,

Would anyone mind translating all this in English ?

Thanks,

JDB
[just did a trial for a hi-speed transmitter for Ronja++. LED 
modulation worked well up to 40-50MBps on no-name Chinese LEDs, and I 
think I have a solution for the slow rise time I'm seeing]

>nejsou k tomu nejake podrobnejsi informace? nebo nechtel by Jan Kral k
>tomu neco napsat? jake to melo mouchy, co je treba udelat a tak? myslim
>ze zdvojnasobeni rychlosti je docela pekna myslenka, tak proc to
>nezkusit dotahnout do konce?
>
>Jakub Ladman napsal(a):
>>  Dne ?t 27. dubna 2006 12:51 Jakub Sykora napsal(a):
>>  
>>>  Chces tim rict, ze staci pouzit podobny prevodnik a z Ronjy je razem
>>>  20Mbps ev. vic FD?
>>>    
>>  V zasede jo. V podstate by se musel jeste asi pretaktovat generator link
>>  integrity pulsu v twisteru. Aby to pretaktovana sitovka povazovala za
>>  spravny.
>>
>>  Uvazoval jsem o malym stroji, s nejakym armem, nebo podobnym 
>>bordelem se dvema
>>  sitovkami, jedna 100Mbit/s a druha 10Mbit/s volitelne pretaktovana na
>>  150-200-250-300%
>>  Jako na jedny aplikaci s 32bit riscem a embedded linuxem delam v 
>>praci, takze
>>  zkusenosti by i byly, ale neni cas.
>>
>>  Jakub Ladman
>>
>>  
>>>  Jak je to s twisterem? Ten by se v tomto pripade nepouzil nebo by se
>>>  pouzil bez zmeny?
>>>
>>>  Diky,
>>>
>>>  K
>>>
>>>  Petr Seliger napsal(a):
>>>    
>>>>  Jo, tohle delal Jan Kral. Je to hack s CPLD a RTL8305 kde ten CPLD vycita
>>>>  data rychlosti 25Mbit. Pokud vim melo to nejake mouchy, ale princip
>>>>  dobry. Samotny TX a RX umoznuje prohnat data s manchester kodovanim
>>>>  rychlosti pres 30Mbps.
>>>>
>>>>      
>>>>>  Ahoj,
>>>>>  rad bych se zeptal na jednu vec - soucasna Ronja je delana na 10Mbit FD,
>>>>>  obcas by se ale hodilo vic - napr. pokud je pouzita pro paterni spoj
>>>>>  vetsi wifi site, ktera ma pronajate od poskytovatele 15-20Mbit
>>>>>  conectivity. A jak jsem se dival na specifikace soucastek, tak by tech
>>>>>  20Mbit Ronja mozna i zvladla, takze bych se rad zeptal, jestli existuji
>>>>>  nejaky prevodniky, ktere by se pripojovaly pres 100Mbit sitovku/switch,
>>>>>  ale snizovaly by rychlost tak na 1/4 nebo 1/5.
>>>>>  Mam dojem, ze jsem zahlidl nejakou zminku na forech CZfree, ale tedka
>>>>>  kdyz jsem to zpetne hledal, tak jsem to nemohl najit.
>>>>>
>>>>>  Michal
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>>>  Ronja mailing list
>>>>>  Ronja at lists.pointless.net
>>>>>  http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>>>>>        
>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>>  Ronja mailing list
>>>>  Ronja at lists.pointless.net
>>>>  http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>>>>      
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  Ronja mailing list
>>  Ronja at lists.pointless.net
>>  http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>>
>>
>>  
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Ronja mailing list
>Ronja at lists.pointless.net
>http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


-- 
LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files.
http://www.lartmaker.nl/


From ladmanj at volny.cz  Thu Apr 27 16:17:14 2006
From: ladmanj at volny.cz (Jakub Ladman)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 17:17:14 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] To musite videt / you must see this
In-Reply-To: <4450B460.4080405@centrum.cz>
References: <200604271102.16153.ladmanj@volny.cz>
	<1146134867.4450a1539a131@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
	<4450B460.4080405@centrum.cz>
Message-ID: <200604271717.14551.ladmanj@volny.cz>

Dne ?t 27. dubna 2006 14:09 Jakub Michn?k napsal(a):
> co se tomu vlastne stalo? to byl pokus o totalni utesneni? jak je ta
> ronja stara? za jak douho se to tam dostalo?? ...


Ronja je stara dva a trictvrte roku.
Na podzim byla jeste sucha.
Utesneny to bylo kvalitne, ale je nevhodne natrena, tak si myslim ze se tam 
voda dostala mezi plechem a barvou za prispeni letosni dlouhe zimy.
Mnohem zajimavejsi ale je ze to chvilema fungovalo u pod vodou.
Jakub Ladman

PS: Aby si to nekdo spatne nevysvetloval, tohle rozhodne neni moje krasne 
komaxitovana ronja, tuhle jsem ja vubec nedelal.
Ale je na moji strese.

>
> Petr Seliger napsal(a):
> > Cituji z emailu od Jakub Ladman <ladmanj at volny.cz>:
> >> http://bleesmrt.hopto.org/~ladmanj/aqvarium/
> >> aneb co silikagel nepobral
> >
> > Jak my antenari rikame: "nejlepsi tesneni je dira."
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ronja mailing list
> > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From clock at twibright.com  Thu Apr 27 17:51:56 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 18:51:56 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] wifi
In-Reply-To: <001901c66979$892a2e00$d221a8c0@diablo>
References: <001b01c6689e$59498630$0201a8c0@wacxnote>
	<001901c66979$892a2e00$d221a8c0@diablo>
Message-ID: <20060427165156.GA2940@kestrel.barix.local>

On Wed, Apr 26, 2006 at 11:36:51PM +0200, Jaroslav Mixa wrote:
> Takze dobry na zaruseni cele oblasti :/

MIMO funguje jen v pripade multipath propagation (kdyz je prijimac krome
primym svazkem ozarovan jeste napr. odrazem od zeme, budov, stromu
atd.). Kdyz neni multipath, vsechny prijimaci anteny v zasade prijimaji
stejny signal, takze neni co z toho linearnima transformacema vykoumat.

Jenze na dalkovych spojich multipath neni, takze tam to fungovat nebude.
Pojede to asi takovoy rychlosti jako by to nebylo MIMO.

Takze je to stejne vhodne jenom do indoor prostredi prip. na nejaky
APcka na blizko a jako nahrada Ronji asi moc ne.

CL<
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "WaCX" <wacx at email.cz>
> To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 9:27 PM
> Subject: Re: [Ronja] wifi
> 
> 
> > jen tak btw,
> > 802.11n uz asi bude
> > http://www.czechcomputer.cz/art_doc-51C39E5EC1D8BAA3C125715A005A9BDA.html
> > 
> > wacx
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ronja mailing list
> > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From clock at twibright.com  Thu Apr 27 17:54:52 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 18:54:52 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] TX a ruseni TV
In-Reply-To: <1749.4189-9344-410955897-1146132294@seznam.cz>
References: <1749.4189-9344-410955897-1146132294@seznam.cz>
Message-ID: <20060427165452.GA7115@kestrel.barix.local>

On Thu, Apr 27, 2006 at 12:04:54PM +0200, Michal Divi? wrote:
> Ahoj, 
> mam problem s jednou instalaci Ronji - sousedovi to rusi TV, ani antena ani Ronja ale nemuze byt umistena jinde, slysel jsem, ze to nekdo resil pridanim keram. kondenzatoru, ale uz jsem na netu nenasel kam ho pridaval.
> Neporadil by nekdo?

Ted zrovna se snazim predelat Twister protoze tam byl problem co se
musel resit kompletnim redesignem mechaniky a tistaku.

Ted je to ve vyrobe a az tistak prijde tak ho osadim.

Pak jeste musim odrusit TX protoze ten taky rusi. Ty napajeci filtry
jsou spatny (prilis velke parazitni vlastnosti pouzitych prvku). Ten TX
se stejne musi predelat protoze s ACckama kmita, nebot je broken by
design.

Asi Ronju nepouzivat a pockat, az to bude opraveny a pak
vymenit/patchnout elektroniku. Jestli rozumis napajecim filtrum muzes si
tam nejaky nabastlit sam ale je treba trefit ten konkretni problem.

CL<
> Michal
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From clock at twibright.com  Thu Apr 27 17:55:25 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 18:55:25 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Prevodnik 100Mbit -> 20(25Mbit)
In-Reply-To: <1146134428.44509f9c05ef8@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
References: <1749.4189-4600-567842976-1146128285@seznam.cz>
	<1146134428.44509f9c05ef8@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
Message-ID: <20060427165525.GB7115@kestrel.barix.local>

On Thu, Apr 27, 2006 at 12:40:28PM +0200, Petr Seliger wrote:
> Jo, tohle delal Jan Kral. Je to hack s CPLD a RTL8305 kde ten CPLD vycita data
> rychlosti 25Mbit. Pokud vim melo to nejake mouchy, ale princip dobry. Samotny TX
> a RX umoznuje prohnat data s manchester kodovanim rychlosti pres 30Mbps.

Otazka je s jakym dosahem. A chodit to 30Mbps i s Nebulusem?

CL<
> 
> 
> > Ahoj, 
> > rad bych se zeptal na jednu vec - soucasna Ronja je delana na 10Mbit FD,
> > obcas by se ale hodilo vic - napr. pokud je pouzita pro paterni spoj vetsi
> > wifi site, ktera ma pronajate od poskytovatele 15-20Mbit conectivity. A jak
> > jsem se dival na specifikace soucastek, tak by tech 20Mbit Ronja mozna i
> > zvladla, takze bych se rad zeptal, jestli existuji nejaky prevodniky, ktere
> > by se pripojovaly pres 100Mbit sitovku/switch, ale snizovaly by rychlost tak
> > na 1/4 nebo 1/5.
> > Mam dojem, ze jsem zahlidl nejakou zminku na forech CZfree, ale tedka kdyz
> > jsem to zpetne hledal, tak jsem to nemohl najit.
> > 
> > Michal
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ronja mailing list
> > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From clock at twibright.com  Thu Apr 27 17:55:55 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 18:55:55 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] To musite videt / you must see this
In-Reply-To: <1146134867.4450a1539a131@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
References: <200604271102.16153.ladmanj@volny.cz>
	<1146134867.4450a1539a131@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
Message-ID: <20060427165555.GC7115@kestrel.barix.local>

On Thu, Apr 27, 2006 at 12:47:47PM +0200, Petr Seliger wrote:
> Cituji z emailu od Jakub Ladman <ladmanj at volny.cz>:
> 
> > http://bleesmrt.hopto.org/~ladmanj/aqvarium/
> > aneb co silikagel nepobral
> > 
> Jak my antenari rikame: "nejlepsi tesneni je dira."

Tak v tomhle pripade tam rozhodne byla.

CL<
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From clock at twibright.com  Thu Apr 27 17:58:07 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 18:58:07 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] To musite videt / you must see this
In-Reply-To: <200604271313.25111.ladmanj@volny.cz>
References: <200604271102.16153.ladmanj@volny.cz>
	<1146134867.4450a1539a131@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
	<200604271313.25111.ladmanj@volny.cz>
Message-ID: <20060427165807.GD7115@kestrel.barix.local>

On Thu, Apr 27, 2006 at 01:13:25PM +0200, Jakub Ladman wrote:
> Dne ?t 27. dubna 2006 12:47 Petr Seliger napsal(a):
> > Cituji z emailu od Jakub Ladman <ladmanj at volny.cz>:
> > > http://bleesmrt.hopto.org/~ladmanj/aqvarium/
> > > aneb co silikagel nepobral
> >
> > Jak my antenari rikame: "nejlepsi tesneni je dira."
> Presne tak, tesnit to je proste hovadina, musi to vetrat

Ja nevim my mame Ronji na balkone utesneny a voda v nich neni. A
normalne na ne prsi. Taky se naskyta logicka otazka "kdyz je to utesneny
kudy se tam ta voda dostala"? Teleportovala se tam 4. dimenzi za pouziti
jestirku Astara Serana a Xenu?

Spis je problem v tom ze se uzivatel pokousel o utesneni a nepovedlo se
mu to.  A nebo se o to tesneni nepokusil vubec.

CL<
> 
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ronja mailing list
> > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From clock at twibright.com  Thu Apr 27 17:58:44 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 18:58:44 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Prevodnik 100Mbit -> 20(25Mbit)
In-Reply-To: <200604271323.23896.ladmanj@volny.cz>
References: <1749.4189-4600-567842976-1146128285@seznam.cz>
	<1146134428.44509f9c05ef8@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
	<4450A246.1000900@kbx.cz> <200604271323.23896.ladmanj@volny.cz>
Message-ID: <20060427165844.GE7115@kestrel.barix.local>

On Thu, Apr 27, 2006 at 01:23:23PM +0200, Jakub Ladman wrote:
> Dne ?t 27. dubna 2006 12:51 Jakub Sykora napsal(a):
> > Chces tim rict, ze staci pouzit podobny prevodnik a z Ronjy je razem
> > 20Mbps ev. vic FD?
> V zasede jo. V podstate by se musel jeste asi pretaktovat generator link 
> integrity pulsu v twisteru. Aby to pretaktovana sitovka povazovala za 
> spravny.
> 
> Uvazoval jsem o malym stroji, s nejakym armem, nebo podobnym bordelem se dvema 
> sitovkami, jedna 100Mbit/s a druha 10Mbit/s volitelne pretaktovana na 
> 150-200-250-300% 
> Jako na jedny aplikaci s 32bit riscem a embedded linuxem delam v praci, takze 
> zkusenosti by i byly, ale neni cas.

A co to je za risc? Bezi na tom Lunyks?

CL<
> 
> Jakub Ladman
> 
> > Jak je to s twisterem? Ten by se v tomto pripade nepouzil nebo by se
> > pouzil bez zmeny?
> >
> > Diky,
> >
> > K
> >
> > Petr Seliger napsal(a):
> > > Jo, tohle delal Jan Kral. Je to hack s CPLD a RTL8305 kde ten CPLD vycita
> > > data rychlosti 25Mbit. Pokud vim melo to nejake mouchy, ale princip
> > > dobry. Samotny TX a RX umoznuje prohnat data s manchester kodovanim
> > > rychlosti pres 30Mbps.
> > >
> > >> Ahoj,
> > >> rad bych se zeptal na jednu vec - soucasna Ronja je delana na 10Mbit FD,
> > >> obcas by se ale hodilo vic - napr. pokud je pouzita pro paterni spoj
> > >> vetsi wifi site, ktera ma pronajate od poskytovatele 15-20Mbit
> > >> conectivity. A jak jsem se dival na specifikace soucastek, tak by tech
> > >> 20Mbit Ronja mozna i zvladla, takze bych se rad zeptal, jestli existuji
> > >> nejaky prevodniky, ktere by se pripojovaly pres 100Mbit sitovku/switch,
> > >> ale snizovaly by rychlost tak na 1/4 nebo 1/5.
> > >> Mam dojem, ze jsem zahlidl nejakou zminku na forech CZfree, ale tedka
> > >> kdyz jsem to zpetne hledal, tak jsem to nemohl najit.
> > >>
> > >> Michal
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> Ronja mailing list
> > >> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > >> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Ronja mailing list
> > > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From clock at twibright.com  Thu Apr 27 18:03:57 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 19:03:57 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] To musite videt / you must see this
In-Reply-To: <4450B460.4080405@centrum.cz>
References: <200604271102.16153.ladmanj@volny.cz>
	<1146134867.4450a1539a131@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
	<4450B460.4080405@centrum.cz>
Message-ID: <20060427170357.GF7115@kestrel.barix.local>

On Thu, Apr 27, 2006 at 02:09:04PM +0200, Jakub Michn?k wrote:
> co se tomu vlastne stalo? to byl pokus o totalni utesneni? jak je ta 
> ronja stara? za jak douho se to tam dostalo?? ...

To neni Ronja. To je sovetska nuklearni hlavice na laserove navadeni.
Je mozne videt hlavni cocku zamerovaciho systemu, dale strisku aby
neprselo do elektroniky kdyz se strili za destivych dnu, pak sovetsky
ridici pocitac, jehoz srdcem je ukradeny design Philips NE592, a nakonec
odpory a kondenzatory, nejposlednejsi technologicky vykrik sovetskeho
elektronickeho prumyslu.

Bohuzel vlivem nepriznivych politickych podminek bylo zanedbane spravne
skladovani v silu takze do rakety trochu zateklo ;-) Kdyz uz mame to
vyroci Cernobylu :)

http://www.pavrda.cz/cernobyl/komise1979.html

CL<
> 
> Petr Seliger napsal(a):
> > Cituji z emailu od Jakub Ladman <ladmanj at volny.cz>:
> >
> >   
> >> http://bleesmrt.hopto.org/~ladmanj/aqvarium/
> >> aneb co silikagel nepobral
> >>
> >>     
> > Jak my antenari rikame: "nejlepsi tesneni je dira."
> >  
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ronja mailing list
> > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> >
> >
> >   
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From petr.cipis at tiscali.cz  Thu Apr 27 18:56:43 2006
From: petr.cipis at tiscali.cz (Cipis)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 19:56:43 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] To musite videt / you must see this
References: <200604271102.16153.ladmanj@volny.cz><1146134867.4450a1539a131@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
	<20060427165555.GC7115@kestrel.barix.local>
Message-ID: <008901c66a23$f1bc7fe0$4d46a8c0@cipis.net>

ale na spatne strane - nahore :D

Cipis


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Karel Kulhavy" <clock na twibright.com>
To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja na lists.pointless.net>
Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 6:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Ronja] To musite videt / you must see this


> On Thu, Apr 27, 2006 at 12:47:47PM +0200, Petr Seliger wrote:
> > Cituji z emailu od Jakub Ladman <ladmanj na volny.cz>:
> > 
> > > http://bleesmrt.hopto.org/~ladmanj/aqvarium/
> > > aneb co silikagel nepobral
> > > 
> > Jak my antenari rikame: "nejlepsi tesneni je dira."
> 
> Tak v tomhle pripade tam rozhodne byla.
> 
> CL<
> >  
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ronja mailing list
> > Ronja na lists.pointless.net
> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja



From jakub.michnik at centrum.cz  Thu Apr 27 19:02:59 2006
From: jakub.michnik at centrum.cz (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jakub_Michn=EDk?=)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 20:02:59 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] To musite videt / you must see this
In-Reply-To: <008901c66a23$f1bc7fe0$4d46a8c0@cipis.net>
References: <200604271102.16153.ladmanj@volny.cz><1146134867.4450a1539a131@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>	<20060427165555.GC7115@kestrel.barix.local>
	<008901c66a23$f1bc7fe0$4d46a8c0@cipis.net>
Message-ID: <44510753.6090309@centrum.cz>

ja bych rek ze na dobre .. byla proto aby se vysrazena vyda vyparovala. 
a vyparuje se smerem nahoru. ale byla moc mala, takze se to vyparovat 
nestihlo ...to je prece jasne ... :-P

Cipis napsal(a):
> ale na spatne strane - nahore :D
>
> Cipis
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Karel Kulhavy" <clock na twibright.com>
> To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja na lists.pointless.net>
> Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 6:55 PM
> Subject: Re: [Ronja] To musite videt / you must see this
>
>
>   
>> On Thu, Apr 27, 2006 at 12:47:47PM +0200, Petr Seliger wrote:
>>     
>>> Cituji z emailu od Jakub Ladman <ladmanj na volny.cz>:
>>>
>>>       
>>>> http://bleesmrt.hopto.org/~ladmanj/aqvarium/
>>>> aneb co silikagel nepobral
>>>>
>>>>         
>>> Jak my antenari rikame: "nejlepsi tesneni je dira."
>>>       
>> Tak v tomhle pripade tam rozhodne byla.
>>
>> CL<
>>     
>>>  
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Ronja mailing list
>>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
>>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>>>       
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ronja mailing list
>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>>     
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>
>
>   



From clock at twibright.com  Thu Apr 27 18:12:46 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 19:12:46 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] To musite videt / you must see this
In-Reply-To: <200604271717.14551.ladmanj@volny.cz>
References: <200604271102.16153.ladmanj@volny.cz>
	<1146134867.4450a1539a131@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
	<4450B460.4080405@centrum.cz> <200604271717.14551.ladmanj@volny.cz>
Message-ID: <20060427171246.GA15620@kestrel.barix.local>

On Thu, Apr 27, 2006 at 05:17:14PM +0200, Jakub Ladman wrote:
> Dne ?t 27. dubna 2006 14:09 Jakub Michn?k napsal(a):
> > co se tomu vlastne stalo? to byl pokus o totalni utesneni? jak je ta
> > ronja stara? za jak douho se to tam dostalo?? ...
> 
> 
> Ronja je stara dva a trictvrte roku.
> Na podzim byla jeste sucha.
> Utesneny to bylo kvalitne, ale je nevhodne natrena, tak si myslim ze se tam 
> voda dostala mezi plechem a barvou za prispeni letosni dlouhe zimy.

Nenatirali jste Hemeroidem? Kamarad to taky natrel (pres moje protesty)
a Hemeroid se oloupal a nateklo tam presne takhle jak popisujes.

> Mnohem zajimavejsi ale je ze to chvilema fungovalo u pod vodou.

I ten RX funguje pod vodou? A je ten RX takhle stale funkcni kdyz
je zkorodovany? :)

CL<
> Jakub Ladman
> 
> PS: Aby si to nekdo spatne nevysvetloval, tohle rozhodne neni moje krasne 
> komaxitovana ronja, tuhle jsem ja vubec nedelal.
> Ale je na moji strese.
> 
> >
> > Petr Seliger napsal(a):
> > > Cituji z emailu od Jakub Ladman <ladmanj at volny.cz>:
> > >> http://bleesmrt.hopto.org/~ladmanj/aqvarium/
> > >> aneb co silikagel nepobral
> > >
> > > Jak my antenari rikame: "nejlepsi tesneni je dira."
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Ronja mailing list
> > > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ronja mailing list
> > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From jakub.michnik at centrum.cz  Thu Apr 27 19:10:09 2006
From: jakub.michnik at centrum.cz (=?ISO-8859-2?Q?Jakub_Michn=EDk?=)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 20:10:09 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] To musite videt / you must see this
In-Reply-To: <20060427171246.GA15620@kestrel.barix.local>
References: <200604271102.16153.ladmanj@volny.cz>	<1146134867.4450a1539a131@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>	<4450B460.4080405@centrum.cz>
	<200604271717.14551.ladmanj@volny.cz>
	<20060427171246.GA15620@kestrel.barix.local>
Message-ID: <44510901.1040603@centrum.cz>

Karel Kulhavy napsal(a):
> On Thu, Apr 27, 2006 at 05:17:14PM +0200, Jakub Ladman wrote:
>   
>> Dne ?t 27. dubna 2006 14:09 Jakub Michn?k napsal(a):
>>     
>>> co se tomu vlastne stalo? to byl pokus o totalni utesneni? jak je ta
>>> ronja stara? za jak douho se to tam dostalo?? ...
>>>       
>> Ronja je stara dva a trictvrte roku.
>> Na podzim byla jeste sucha.
>> Utesneny to bylo kvalitne, ale je nevhodne natrena, tak si myslim ze se tam 
>> voda dostala mezi plechem a barvou za prispeni letosni dlouhe zimy.
>>     
>
> Nenatirali jste Hemeroidem? Kamarad to taky natrel (pres moje protesty)
> a Hemeroid se oloupal a nateklo tam presne takhle jak popisujes.
>
>   

s temahla barvama prakticke zkusenosti nemam, ale mam pocit ze jsem 
nekde slysel, ze barvy jako antirezin nebo hemeraid, rez vylozene 
potrebujou. nejak se na ni navazou a zastavi jeji sireni. ale nechci 
kecat, jenom mam pocit ze jsem to tak nekde slysel. nebo pokud ta trubka 
byla pozinkovana a nezoxidovana, tak ti na to nechytne snad nic....

>> Mnohem zajimavejsi ale je ze to chvilema fungovalo u pod vodou.
>>     
>
> I ten RX funguje pod vodou? A je ten RX takhle stale funkcni kdyz
> je zkorodovany? :)
>
> CL<
>   
>> Jakub Ladman
>>
>> PS: Aby si to nekdo spatne nevysvetloval, tohle rozhodne neni moje krasne 
>> komaxitovana ronja, tuhle jsem ja vubec nedelal.
>> Ale je na moji strese.
>>
>>     
>>> Petr Seliger napsal(a):
>>>       
>>>> Cituji z emailu od Jakub Ladman <ladmanj na volny.cz>:
>>>>         
>>>>> http://bleesmrt.hopto.org/~ladmanj/aqvarium/
>>>>> aneb co silikagel nepobral
>>>>>           
>>>> Jak my antenari rikame: "nejlepsi tesneni je dira."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Ronja mailing list
>>>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
>>>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>>>>         
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Ronja mailing list
>>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
>>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>>>       
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ronja mailing list
>> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>>     
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja na lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>
>
>   



From seligr at sh.cvut.cz  Thu Apr 27 19:18:20 2006
From: seligr at sh.cvut.cz (Petr Seliger)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 20:18:20 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] To musite videt / you must see this
In-Reply-To: <008901c66a23$f1bc7fe0$4d46a8c0@cipis.net>
References: <200604271102.16153.ladmanj@volny.cz><1146134867.4450a1539a131@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
	<20060427165555.GC7115@kestrel.barix.local>
	<008901c66a23$f1bc7fe0$4d46a8c0@cipis.net>
Message-ID: <1146161900.44510aec76f47@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>

Proto delame na parabolach s radomem diru nahore i dole, protoze to obvykle
stejne montujui hovada vzhuru nohama :)

> ale na spatne strane - nahore :D
> 
> Cipis
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Karel Kulhavy" <clock at twibright.com>
> To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
> Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 6:55 PM
> Subject: Re: [Ronja] To musite videt / you must see this
> 
> 
> > On Thu, Apr 27, 2006 at 12:47:47PM +0200, Petr Seliger wrote:
> > > Cituji z emailu od Jakub Ladman <ladmanj at volny.cz>:
> > > 
> > > > http://bleesmrt.hopto.org/~ladmanj/aqvarium/
> > > > aneb co silikagel nepobral
> > > > 
> > > Jak my antenari rikame: "nejlepsi tesneni je dira."
> > 
> > Tak v tomhle pripade tam rozhodne byla.
> > 
> > CL<
> > >  
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Ronja mailing list
> > > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ronja mailing list
> > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 





From seligr at sh.cvut.cz  Thu Apr 27 19:26:00 2006
From: seligr at sh.cvut.cz (Petr Seliger)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 20:26:00 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] TX a ruseni TV
In-Reply-To: <20060427165452.GA7115@kestrel.barix.local>
References: <1749.4189-9344-410955897-1146132294@seznam.cz>
	<20060427165452.GA7115@kestrel.barix.local>
Message-ID: <1146162360.44510cb84cc0e@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>

Cituji z emailu od Karel Kulhavy <clock at twibright.com>:

> On Thu, Apr 27, 2006 at 12:04:54PM +0200, Michal Divi? wrote:
> > Ahoj, 
> > mam problem s jednou instalaci Ronji - sousedovi to rusi TV, ani antena ani
> Ronja ale nemuze byt umistena jinde, slysel jsem, ze to nekdo resil pridanim
> keram. kondenzatoru, ale uz jsem na netu nenasel kam ho pridaval.
> > Neporadil by nekdo?
> 
> Ted zrovna se snazim predelat Twister protoze tam byl problem co se
> musel resit kompletnim redesignem mechaniky a tistaku.
> 
> Ted je to ve vyrobe a az tistak prijde tak ho osadim.

U me je v priprave patchovaci deska pro stary "spotrebni" twister, aby se
nemusel vyhazovat :)

> 
> Pak jeste musim odrusit TX protoze ten taky rusi. Ty napajeci filtry
> jsou spatny (prilis velke parazitni vlastnosti pouzitych prvku). Ten TX
> se stejne musi predelat protoze s ACckama kmita, nebot je broken by
> design.
> 

Ty ACcka jsou asi blbe zablokovany. Tam potrebuji nekolik kondiku radu desitek
pF na zablokovani. Taky je otazka jestli nejsou ty ACcka zbytecne rychly.

Pes

> Asi Ronju nepouzivat a pockat, az to bude opraveny a pak
> vymenit/patchnout elektroniku. Jestli rozumis napajecim filtrum muzes si
> tam nejaky nabastlit sam ale je treba trefit ten konkretni problem.
> 
> CL<
> > Michal



From petr.cipis at tiscali.cz  Thu Apr 27 19:53:39 2006
From: petr.cipis at tiscali.cz (Cipis)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 20:53:39 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] To musite videt / you must see this
References: <200604271102.16153.ladmanj@volny.cz><1146134867.4450a1539a131@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>	<20060427165555.GC7115@kestrel.barix.local><008901c66a23$f1bc7fe0$4d46a8c0@cipis.net>
	<44510753.6090309@centrum.cz>
Message-ID: <001d01c66a2b$e57dc240$4d46a8c0@cipis.net>

Jedina spravna dira je dole - kdyz to odtece, tak se nema co odparovat.
A nejlepsi je tu diru vyvrtat az na hotove instalaci, aby se predeslo
efektu, co popisoval Seliger :)

Cipis


----- Original Message -----
From: "Jakub Michn?k" <jakub.michnik na centrum.cz>
To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja na lists.pointless.net>
Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 8:02 PM
Subject: Re: [Ronja] To musite videt / you must see this


> ja bych rek ze na dobre .. byla proto aby se vysrazena vyda vyparovala.
> a vyparuje se smerem nahoru. ale byla moc mala, takze se to vyparovat
> nestihlo ...to je prece jasne ... :-P
>
> Cipis napsal(a):
> > ale na spatne strane - nahore :D
> >
> > Cipis
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Karel Kulhavy" <clock na twibright.com>
> > To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja na lists.pointless.net>
> > Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 6:55 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Ronja] To musite videt / you must see this
> >
> >
> >
> >> On Thu, Apr 27, 2006 at 12:47:47PM +0200, Petr Seliger wrote:
> >>
> >>> Cituji z emailu od Jakub Ladman <ladmanj na volny.cz>:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> http://bleesmrt.hopto.org/~ladmanj/aqvarium/
> >>>> aneb co silikagel nepobral
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> Jak my antenari rikame: "nejlepsi tesneni je dira."
> >>>
> >> Tak v tomhle pripade tam rozhodne byla.
> >>
> >> CL<
> >>




From ladmanj at volny.cz  Thu Apr 27 20:19:32 2006
From: ladmanj at volny.cz (Jakub Ladman)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 21:19:32 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] To musite videt / you must see this
In-Reply-To: <20060427171246.GA15620@kestrel.barix.local>
References: <200604271102.16153.ladmanj@volny.cz>
	<200604271717.14551.ladmanj@volny.cz>
	<20060427171246.GA15620@kestrel.barix.local>
Message-ID: <200604272119.32916.ladmanj@volny.cz>

> Nenatirali jste Hemeroidem? Kamarad to taky natrel (pres moje protesty)
> a Hemeroid se oloupal a nateklo tam presne takhle jak popisujes.

Mnohem hure, ten debil co to delal to natrel pouze balakrylem. 
Kdyz se to instalovalo, predpovidal jsem ze to neprezije zimu - nakonec to 
neprezilo az treti.

>
> > Mnohem zajimavejsi ale je ze to chvilema fungovalo u pod vodou.
>
> I ten RX funguje pod vodou? A je ten RX takhle stale funkcni kdyz
> je zkorodovany? :)

No grafy ukazuji ze to chvilema fungovalo i takhle zatopene vodou.
To se teprve uvidi dnes jsem ho dukladne pral v isopropylu.
Jakub

>
> CL<
>
> > Jakub Ladman
> >
> > PS: Aby si to nekdo spatne nevysvetloval, tohle rozhodne neni moje krasne
> > komaxitovana ronja, tuhle jsem ja vubec nedelal.
> > Ale je na moji strese.
> >
> > > Petr Seliger napsal(a):
> > > > Cituji z emailu od Jakub Ladman <ladmanj at volny.cz>:
> > > >> http://bleesmrt.hopto.org/~ladmanj/aqvarium/
> > > >> aneb co silikagel nepobral
> > > >
> > > > Jak my antenari rikame: "nejlepsi tesneni je dira."
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Ronja mailing list
> > > > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Ronja mailing list
> > > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ronja mailing list
> > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From ladmanj at volny.cz  Thu Apr 27 20:35:07 2006
From: ladmanj at volny.cz (Jakub Ladman)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 21:35:07 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Prevodnik 100Mbit -> 20(25Mbit)
In-Reply-To: <20060427165844.GE7115@kestrel.barix.local>
References: <1749.4189-4600-567842976-1146128285@seznam.cz>
	<200604271323.23896.ladmanj@volny.cz>
	<20060427165844.GE7115@kestrel.barix.local>
Message-ID: <200604272135.07228.ladmanj@volny.cz>

> A co to je za risc? 

Je to SuperH SH4 od www.renesas.com (slepenec mitsubishi a hitachi)

> Bezi na tom Lunyks? 

Nevim jestli to je jen humorna presmycka, pak jsi necetl, co jsem psal, prilis 
pozorne. Jestli to je neco jineho tak to neznam.

>
> CL<
>
> > Jakub Ladman


From quintusmurray at yahoo.com  Fri Apr 28 03:22:53 2006
From: quintusmurray at yahoo.com (Quintus Murray)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 19:22:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Ronja] Ronja Digest, Vol 36, Issue 28
In-Reply-To: <mailman.572.1146134451.22549.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
Message-ID: <20060428022253.2279.qmail@web53408.mail.yahoo.com>



What do you mean by ronja for backbones and AP's with WIFI cilents for the end hop???? what do I need to use the ronja as a wifi access point????? and what do you mean by end hop???



		
---------------------------------
New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20060427/8035e58e/attachment.html 

From ladmanj at volny.cz  Fri Apr 28 08:52:49 2006
From: ladmanj at volny.cz (Jakub Ladman)
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 09:52:49 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Ronja Digest, Vol 36, Issue 28
In-Reply-To: <20060428022253.2279.qmail@web53408.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20060428022253.2279.qmail@web53408.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200604280952.49313.ladmanj@volny.cz>

Did you ever seen what ronja is?
Ronja is point to point joint, not point to multipoint - it really can not 
operate as access point.


Dne p? 28. dubna 2006 04:22 Quintus Murray napsal(a):
> What do you mean by ronja for backbones and AP's with WIFI cilents for the
> end hop???? what do I need to use the ronja as a wifi access point????? and
> what do you mean by end hop???
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save
> big.


From wacx at email.cz  Fri Apr 28 09:04:41 2006
From: wacx at email.cz (WaCX)
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 10:04:41 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Ronja Digest, Vol 36, Issue 28
References: <20060428022253.2279.qmail@web53408.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <002e01c66a9a$6a933d20$0201a8c0@wacxnote>

Hi Quintus,
if you are think of make omnidirectional ronja, its impossible because for that you'll need several hundreds watts of light power modulated at 10MHz for TX for few hundred meter radius and you'll never get license to use such a device, not even in IR raddiation pattern. And for RX, i'cant even imagine how it can be done:-)
wacx
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Quintus Murray 
  To: ronja at lists.pointless.net 
  Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 4:22 AM
  Subject: Re: [Ronja] Ronja Digest, Vol 36, Issue 28





    What do you mean by ronja for backbones and AP's with WIFI cilents for the end hop???? what do I need to use the ronja as a wifi access point????? and what do you mean by end hop???






------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  Ronja mailing list
  Ronja at lists.pointless.net
  http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20060428/198af3aa/attachment.html 

From clock at twibright.com  Fri Apr 28 14:03:44 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 15:03:44 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] To musite videt / you must see this
In-Reply-To: <44510753.6090309@centrum.cz>
References: <20060427165555.GC7115@kestrel.barix.local>
	<008901c66a23$f1bc7fe0$4d46a8c0@cipis.net>
	<44510753.6090309@centrum.cz>
Message-ID: <20060428130342.GA30429@kestrel.barix.local>

On Thu, Apr 27, 2006 at 08:02:59PM +0200, Jakub Michn?k wrote:
> ja bych rek ze na dobre .. byla proto aby se vysrazena vyda vyparovala. 
> a vyparuje se smerem nahoru. ale byla moc mala, takze se to vyparovat 

Ja bych rek ze voda se vyparuje bez ohledu na smer.

CL<
> nestihlo ...to je prece jasne ... :-P
> 
> Cipis napsal(a):
> > ale na spatne strane - nahore :D
> >
> > Cipis
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Karel Kulhavy" <clock at twibright.com>
> > To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
> > Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 6:55 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Ronja] To musite videt / you must see this
> >
> >
> >   
> >> On Thu, Apr 27, 2006 at 12:47:47PM +0200, Petr Seliger wrote:
> >>     
> >>> Cituji z emailu od Jakub Ladman <ladmanj at volny.cz>:
> >>>
> >>>       
> >>>> http://bleesmrt.hopto.org/~ladmanj/aqvarium/
> >>>> aneb co silikagel nepobral
> >>>>
> >>>>         
> >>> Jak my antenari rikame: "nejlepsi tesneni je dira."
> >>>       
> >> Tak v tomhle pripade tam rozhodne byla.
> >>
> >> CL<
> >>     
> >>>  
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Ronja mailing list
> >>> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> >>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> >>>       
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Ronja mailing list
> >> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> >> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> >>     
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ronja mailing list
> > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> >
> >
> >   
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From clock at twibright.com  Fri Apr 28 14:07:31 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 15:07:31 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] TX a ruseni TV
In-Reply-To: <1146162360.44510cb84cc0e@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
References: <1749.4189-9344-410955897-1146132294@seznam.cz>
	<20060427165452.GA7115@kestrel.barix.local>
	<1146162360.44510cb84cc0e@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
Message-ID: <20060428130730.GA30625@kestrel.barix.local>

On Thu, Apr 27, 2006 at 08:26:00PM +0200, Petr Seliger wrote:
> Cituji z emailu od Karel Kulhavy <clock at twibright.com>:
> 
> > On Thu, Apr 27, 2006 at 12:04:54PM +0200, Michal Divi? wrote:
> > > Ahoj, 
> > > mam problem s jednou instalaci Ronji - sousedovi to rusi TV, ani antena ani
> > Ronja ale nemuze byt umistena jinde, slysel jsem, ze to nekdo resil pridanim
> > keram. kondenzatoru, ale uz jsem na netu nenasel kam ho pridaval.
> > > Neporadil by nekdo?
> > 
> > Ted zrovna se snazim predelat Twister protoze tam byl problem co se
> > musel resit kompletnim redesignem mechaniky a tistaku.
> > 
> > Ted je to ve vyrobe a az tistak prijde tak ho osadim.
> 
> U me je v priprave patchovaci deska pro stary "spotrebni" twister, aby se
> nemusel vyhazovat :)

Ja jsem to zkousel a zjistil jsem ze bez zmeny mechaniky to nejde. Leda
ze by ta tvoje patchovaci deska obsahovala krabicku.

CL<
> 
> > 
> > Pak jeste musim odrusit TX protoze ten taky rusi. Ty napajeci filtry
> > jsou spatny (prilis velke parazitni vlastnosti pouzitych prvku). Ten TX
> > se stejne musi predelat protoze s ACckama kmita, nebot je broken by
> > design.
> > 
> 
> Ty ACcka jsou asi blbe zablokovany. Tam potrebuji nekolik kondiku radu desitek
> pF na zablokovani. Taky je otazka jestli nejsou ty ACcka zbytecne rychly.
> 
> Pes
> 
> > Asi Ronju nepouzivat a pockat, az to bude opraveny a pak
> > vymenit/patchnout elektroniku. Jestli rozumis napajecim filtrum muzes si
> > tam nejaky nabastlit sam ale je treba trefit ten konkretni problem.
> > 
> > CL<
> > > Michal
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From clock at twibright.com  Fri Apr 28 14:09:39 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 15:09:39 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] To musite videt / you must see this
In-Reply-To: <200604272119.32916.ladmanj@volny.cz>
References: <200604271102.16153.ladmanj@volny.cz>
	<200604271717.14551.ladmanj@volny.cz>
	<20060427171246.GA15620@kestrel.barix.local>
	<200604272119.32916.ladmanj@volny.cz>
Message-ID: <20060428130939.GB30625@kestrel.barix.local>

On Thu, Apr 27, 2006 at 09:19:32PM +0200, Jakub Ladman wrote:
> > Nenatirali jste Hemeroidem? Kamarad to taky natrel (pres moje protesty)
> > a Hemeroid se oloupal a nateklo tam presne takhle jak popisujes.
> 
> Mnohem hure, ten debil co to delal to natrel pouze balakrylem. 

A byl ten balakryl specifikovany pro venkovni podminky? Byly dodrzene
predepsane technologicke postupy jako spravna volba zakladovky,
prislusne pocty vrstev, teplotni rozsah prace, minimalni doba schnuti?

CL<

> Kdyz se to instalovalo, predpovidal jsem ze to neprezije zimu - nakonec to 
> neprezilo az treti.
> 
> >
> > > Mnohem zajimavejsi ale je ze to chvilema fungovalo u pod vodou.
> >
> > I ten RX funguje pod vodou? A je ten RX takhle stale funkcni kdyz
> > je zkorodovany? :)
> 
> No grafy ukazuji ze to chvilema fungovalo i takhle zatopene vodou.
> To se teprve uvidi dnes jsem ho dukladne pral v isopropylu.
> Jakub
> 
> >
> > CL<
> >
> > > Jakub Ladman
> > >
> > > PS: Aby si to nekdo spatne nevysvetloval, tohle rozhodne neni moje krasne
> > > komaxitovana ronja, tuhle jsem ja vubec nedelal.
> > > Ale je na moji strese.
> > >
> > > > Petr Seliger napsal(a):
> > > > > Cituji z emailu od Jakub Ladman <ladmanj at volny.cz>:
> > > > >> http://bleesmrt.hopto.org/~ladmanj/aqvarium/
> > > > >> aneb co silikagel nepobral
> > > > >
> > > > > Jak my antenari rikame: "nejlepsi tesneni je dira."
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Ronja mailing list
> > > > > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > > > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Ronja mailing list
> > > > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Ronja mailing list
> > > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ronja mailing list
> > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From clock at twibright.com  Fri Apr 28 14:17:48 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 15:17:48 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Ronja Digest, Vol 36, Issue 28
In-Reply-To: <20060428022253.2279.qmail@web53408.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.572.1146134451.22549.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
	<20060428022253.2279.qmail@web53408.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20060428131748.GE30625@kestrel.barix.local>

On Thu, Apr 27, 2006 at 07:22:53PM -0700, Quintus Murray wrote:
> 
> 
> What do you mean by ronja for backbones and AP's with WIFI cilents for

Backbones are links with a lot of traffic. AP means Access Point.

> the end hop???? what do I need to use the ronja as a wifi access
> point????? and what do you mean by end hop???

You cannot use Ronja as a WiFi access point. Ronja doesn't support
WiFi. Maybe in later version with some CPU. Sorry ;-)

End hop is the hop between end user and the first router on the way.

CL<
> 
> 
> 
> 		
> ---------------------------------
> New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big.
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja



From clock at twibright.com  Fri Apr 28 14:18:39 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 15:18:39 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Ronja Digest, Vol 36, Issue 28
In-Reply-To: <200604280952.49313.ladmanj@volny.cz>
References: <20060428022253.2279.qmail@web53408.mail.yahoo.com>
	<200604280952.49313.ladmanj@volny.cz>
Message-ID: <20060428131839.GF30625@kestrel.barix.local>

On Fri, Apr 28, 2006 at 09:52:49AM +0200, Jakub Ladman wrote:
> Did you ever seen what ronja is?

See is not enough. Between eyes and hands there is a long way paved with
billions of neurons. And every single neuron from these billions can
fail ;-)

CL<
> Ronja is point to point joint, not point to multipoint - it really can not 
> operate as access point.
> 
> 
> Dne p? 28. dubna 2006 04:22 Quintus Murray napsal(a):
> > What do you mean by ronja for backbones and AP's with WIFI cilents for the
> > end hop???? what do I need to use the ronja as a wifi access point????? and
> > what do you mean by end hop???
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save
> > big.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From clock at twibright.com  Fri Apr 28 14:20:54 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 15:20:54 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Ronja Digest, Vol 36, Issue 28
In-Reply-To: <002e01c66a9a$6a933d20$0201a8c0@wacxnote>
References: <20060428022253.2279.qmail@web53408.mail.yahoo.com>
	<002e01c66a9a$6a933d20$0201a8c0@wacxnote>
Message-ID: <20060428132054.GG30625@kestrel.barix.local>

On Fri, Apr 28, 2006 at 10:04:41AM +0200, WaCX wrote:
> Hi Quintus,
> if you are think of make omnidirectional ronja, its impossible because
> for that you'll need several hundreds watts of light power modulated

Not several hundred. You would need the EIRP, which is about 20kW. With
20% conversion efficiency you need 100kW permanent input electrical
power. Good luck with electricity bills.

> at 10MHz for TX for few hundred meter radius and you'll never get
> license to use such a device, not even in IR raddiation pattern. And

You don't need licence. If the device is eye-safe on-axis, it's eye safe
everywhere. You may just run into troubles with light pollution issues
:)

CL<

> for RX, i'cant even imagine how it can be done:-)

Omnidirectional RX? Just take out the RX from the optical head. But
the range won't be as good as it used to be ;-P

CL<

> wacx
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: Quintus Murray 
>   To: ronja at lists.pointless.net 
>   Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 4:22 AM
>   Subject: Re: [Ronja] Ronja Digest, Vol 36, Issue 28
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>     What do you mean by ronja for backbones and AP's with WIFI cilents for the end hop???? what do I need to use the ronja as a wifi access point????? and what do you mean by end hop???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>   New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big.
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
>   _______________________________________________
>   Ronja mailing list
>   Ronja at lists.pointless.net
>   http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja

> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja



From wacx at email.cz  Fri Apr 28 15:54:40 2006
From: wacx at email.cz (WaCX)
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 16:54:40 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Ronja Digest, Vol 36, Issue 28
References: <20060428022253.2279.qmail@web53408.mail.yahoo.com><002e01c66a9a$6a933d20$0201a8c0@wacxnote>
	<20060428132054.GG30625@kestrel.barix.local>
Message-ID: <001001c66ad3$adbb8830$0201a8c0@wacxnote>

Jasne ze by stacilo ho vyndat z optiky a pouzit treba 12xRX na pokryti 360? 
oblasti, ale ja jsem tim myslel prave citlivost a ruseni. myslim ze 50m 
okruh uz by byl uspech:-)
wacx
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Karel Kulhavy" <clock at twibright.com>
To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 3:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Ronja] Ronja Digest, Vol 36, Issue 28


> On Fri, Apr 28, 2006 at 10:04:41AM +0200, WaCX wrote:
>> Hi Quintus,
>> if you are think of make omnidirectional ronja, its impossible because
>> for that you'll need several hundreds watts of light power modulated
>
> Not several hundred. You would need the EIRP, which is about 20kW. With
> 20% conversion efficiency you need 100kW permanent input electrical
> power. Good luck with electricity bills.
>
>> at 10MHz for TX for few hundred meter radius and you'll never get
>> license to use such a device, not even in IR raddiation pattern. And
>
> You don't need licence. If the device is eye-safe on-axis, it's eye safe
> everywhere. You may just run into troubles with light pollution issues
> :)
>
> CL<
>
>> for RX, i'cant even imagine how it can be done:-)
>
> Omnidirectional RX? Just take out the RX from the optical head. But
> the range won't be as good as it used to be ;-P
>
> CL<
>
>> wacx
>>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>>   From: Quintus Murray
>>   To: ronja at lists.pointless.net
>>   Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 4:22 AM
>>   Subject: Re: [Ronja] Ronja Digest, Vol 36, Issue 28
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>     What do you mean by ronja for backbones and AP's with WIFI cilents 
>> for the end hop???? what do I need to use the ronja as a wifi access 
>> point????? and what do you mean by end hop???
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>   New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and 
>> save big.
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>   _______________________________________________
>>   Ronja mailing list
>>   Ronja at lists.pointless.net
>>   http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ronja mailing list
>> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja 



From wacx at email.cz  Fri Apr 28 16:01:25 2006
From: wacx at email.cz (WaCX)
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 17:01:25 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Ronja Digest, Vol 36, Issue 28
References: <20060428022253.2279.qmail@web53408.mail.yahoo.com><002e01c66a9a$6a933d20$0201a8c0@wacxnote>
	<20060428132054.GG30625@kestrel.barix.local>
Message-ID: <001901c66ad4$9f1f2fb0$0201a8c0@wacxnote>

A ted jsem si navic uvedomil ze je to cely pitomost protoze by to pseudo 
apcko muselo fungovat bud hub a dost pochybuju ze by si ronja poradila se 
splnenim podminek pro CS/CDMA.
wacx
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Karel Kulhavy" <clock at twibright.com>
To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 3:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Ronja] Ronja Digest, Vol 36, Issue 28


> On Fri, Apr 28, 2006 at 10:04:41AM +0200, WaCX wrote:
>> Hi Quintus,
>> if you are think of make omnidirectional ronja, its impossible because
>> for that you'll need several hundreds watts of light power modulated
>
> Not several hundred. You would need the EIRP, which is about 20kW. With
> 20% conversion efficiency you need 100kW permanent input electrical
> power. Good luck with electricity bills.
>
>> at 10MHz for TX for few hundred meter radius and you'll never get
>> license to use such a device, not even in IR raddiation pattern. And
>
> You don't need licence. If the device is eye-safe on-axis, it's eye safe
> everywhere. You may just run into troubles with light pollution issues
> :)
>
> CL<
>
>> for RX, i'cant even imagine how it can be done:-)
>
> Omnidirectional RX? Just take out the RX from the optical head. But
> the range won't be as good as it used to be ;-P
>
> CL<
>
>> wacx
>>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>>   From: Quintus Murray
>>   To: ronja at lists.pointless.net
>>   Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 4:22 AM
>>   Subject: Re: [Ronja] Ronja Digest, Vol 36, Issue 28
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>     What do you mean by ronja for backbones and AP's with WIFI cilents 
>> for the end hop???? what do I need to use the ronja as a wifi access 
>> point????? and what do you mean by end hop???
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>   New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and 
>> save big.
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>   _______________________________________________
>>   Ronja mailing list
>>   Ronja at lists.pointless.net
>>   http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ronja mailing list
>> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja 



From seligr at sh.cvut.cz  Fri Apr 28 17:02:21 2006
From: seligr at sh.cvut.cz (Petr Seliger)
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 18:02:21 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] TX a ruseni TV
In-Reply-To: <20060428130730.GA30625@kestrel.barix.local>
References: <1749.4189-9344-410955897-1146132294@seznam.cz>
	<20060427165452.GA7115@kestrel.barix.local>
	<1146162360.44510cb84cc0e@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
	<20060428130730.GA30625@kestrel.barix.local>
Message-ID: <1146240141.44523c8d85777@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>

Cituji z emailu od Karel Kulhavy <clock at twibright.com>:

> On Thu, Apr 27, 2006 at 08:26:00PM +0200, Petr Seliger wrote:
> > Cituji z emailu od Karel Kulhavy <clock at twibright.com>:
> > 
> > > On Thu, Apr 27, 2006 at 12:04:54PM +0200, Michal Divi? wrote:
> > > > Ahoj, 
> > > > mam problem s jednou instalaci Ronji - sousedovi to rusi TV, ani antena
> ani
> > > Ronja ale nemuze byt umistena jinde, slysel jsem, ze to nekdo resil
> pridanim
> > > keram. kondenzatoru, ale uz jsem na netu nenasel kam ho pridaval.
> > > > Neporadil by nekdo?
> > > 
> > > Ted zrovna se snazim predelat Twister protoze tam byl problem co se
> > > musel resit kompletnim redesignem mechaniky a tistaku.
> > > 
> > > Ted je to ve vyrobe a az tistak prijde tak ho osadim.
> > 
> > U me je v priprave patchovaci deska pro stary "spotrebni" twister, aby se
> > nemusel vyhazovat :)
> 
> Ja jsem to zkousel a zjistil jsem ze bez zmeny mechaniky to nejde. Leda
> ze by ta tvoje patchovaci deska obsahovala krabicku.

Obsahuje. Jen me jeste sere ta ramova antena kolem pulky tistaku by Clock :(
> 
> CL<



From seligr at sh.cvut.cz  Fri Apr 28 17:07:30 2006
From: seligr at sh.cvut.cz (Petr Seliger)
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 18:07:30 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] To musite videt / you must see this
In-Reply-To: <20060428130342.GA30429@kestrel.barix.local>
References: <20060427165555.GC7115@kestrel.barix.local>
	<008901c66a23$f1bc7fe0$4d46a8c0@cipis.net>
	<44510753.6090309@centrum.cz>
	<20060428130342.GA30429@kestrel.barix.local>
Message-ID: <1146240450.44523dc2905ec@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>

Cituji z emailu od Karel Kulhavy <clock at twibright.com>:

> On Thu, Apr 27, 2006 at 08:02:59PM +0200, Jakub Michn?k wrote:
> > ja bych rek ze na dobre .. byla proto aby se vysrazena vyda vyparovala. 
> > a vyparuje se smerem nahoru. ale byla moc mala, takze se to vyparovat 
> 
> Ja bych rek ze voda se vyparuje bez ohledu na smer.

To je sice pravda, jenze je zase problem se zalezitosti zvanou stavovy diagram
voda-para konkretne tlak sytych par.

> 
> CL<
> > nestihlo ...to je prece jasne ... :-P
> > 
> > Cipis napsal(a):
> > > ale na spatne strane - nahore :D
> > >
> > > Cipis
> > >



From ladmanj at volny.cz  Fri Apr 28 17:11:56 2006
From: ladmanj at volny.cz (Jakub Ladman)
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 18:11:56 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] To musite videt / you must see this
In-Reply-To: <20060428130939.GB30625@kestrel.barix.local>
References: <200604271102.16153.ladmanj@volny.cz>
	<200604272119.32916.ladmanj@volny.cz>
	<20060428130939.GB30625@kestrel.barix.local>
Message-ID: <200604281811.56231.ladmanj@volny.cz>

Dne p?tek 28 duben 2006 15:09 Karel Kulhavy napsal(a):
> On Thu, Apr 27, 2006 at 09:19:32PM +0200, Jakub Ladman wrote:
> > > Nenatirali jste Hemeroidem? Kamarad to taky natrel (pres moje protesty)
> > > a Hemeroid se oloupal a nateklo tam presne takhle jak popisujes.
> >
> > Mnohem hure, ten debil co to delal to natrel pouze balakrylem.
>
> A byl ten balakryl specifikovany pro venkovni podminky? Byly dodrzene
> predepsane technologicke postupy jako spravna volba zakladovky,
> prislusne pocty vrstev, teplotni rozsah prace, minimalni doba schnuti?
>
Tvoje dotazy mi prijdou trochu ujete.
Kdyz se o autorovi vyjadruju jako o debilovi, tak tim chci rict ze nedodrzoval 
vubec zadna tato pravidla.

Jakub
> CL<
>
> > Kdyz se to instalovalo, predpovidal jsem ze to neprezije zimu - nakonec
> > to neprezilo az treti.
> >
> > > > Mnohem zajimavejsi ale je ze to chvilema fungovalo u pod vodou.
> > >
> > > I ten RX funguje pod vodou? A je ten RX takhle stale funkcni kdyz
> > > je zkorodovany? :)
> >
> > No grafy ukazuji ze to chvilema fungovalo i takhle zatopene vodou.
> > To se teprve uvidi dnes jsem ho dukladne pral v isopropylu.
> > Jakub
> >
> > > CL<
> > >
> > > > Jakub Ladman
> > > >
> > > > PS: Aby si to nekdo spatne nevysvetloval, tohle rozhodne neni moje
> > > > krasne komaxitovana ronja, tuhle jsem ja vubec nedelal.
> > > > Ale je na moji strese.
> > > >
> > > > > Petr Seliger napsal(a):
> > > > > > Cituji z emailu od Jakub Ladman <ladmanj at volny.cz>:
> > > > > >> http://bleesmrt.hopto.org/~ladmanj/aqvarium/
> > > > > >> aneb co silikagel nepobral
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Jak my antenari rikame: "nejlepsi tesneni je dira."
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > Ronja mailing list
> > > > > > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > > > > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Ronja mailing list
> > > > > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > > > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Ronja mailing list
> > > > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Ronja mailing list
> > > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ronja mailing list
> > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From ladmanj at volny.cz  Fri Apr 28 17:17:38 2006
From: ladmanj at volny.cz (Jakub Ladman)
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 18:17:38 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] To musite videt / you must see this
In-Reply-To: <200604281811.56231.ladmanj@volny.cz>
References: <200604271102.16153.ladmanj@volny.cz>
	<20060428130939.GB30625@kestrel.barix.local>
	<200604281811.56231.ladmanj@volny.cz>
Message-ID: <200604281817.38376.ladmanj@volny.cz>

1) kdo to jeste chce videt necht se podiva radsi na 
http://kuba.tharrrk.net/aqvarium/
proto?e je tam rychlej?? lajna.
2) ten skorodovan? p?ij?ma?, vyparan? v ?ist? vod?, v isopropylu, vysu?en? a 
nalakovan? lakem PLASTIK 70 z GM op?t funguje, ani to nebylo pot?eba znovu 
zam??ovat.
Je to tam te? provizorn? aby to n?jak chv?li jelo a do m?s?ce nebo tak tam 
d?me n?jakou funglovku.

Jakub


From clock at twibright.com  Fri Apr 28 18:22:18 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 19:22:18 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] TX a ruseni TV
In-Reply-To: <1146240141.44523c8d85777@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
References: <1749.4189-9344-410955897-1146132294@seznam.cz>
	<20060427165452.GA7115@kestrel.barix.local>
	<1146162360.44510cb84cc0e@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
	<20060428130730.GA30625@kestrel.barix.local>
	<1146240141.44523c8d85777@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
Message-ID: <20060428172218.GA8253@kestrel.barix.local>

On Fri, Apr 28, 2006 at 06:02:21PM +0200, Petr Seliger wrote:
> Cituji z emailu od Karel Kulhavy <clock at twibright.com>:
> 
> > On Thu, Apr 27, 2006 at 08:26:00PM +0200, Petr Seliger wrote:
> > > Cituji z emailu od Karel Kulhavy <clock at twibright.com>:
> > > 
> > > > On Thu, Apr 27, 2006 at 12:04:54PM +0200, Michal Divi? wrote:
> > > > > Ahoj, 
> > > > > mam problem s jednou instalaci Ronji - sousedovi to rusi TV, ani antena
> > ani
> > > > Ronja ale nemuze byt umistena jinde, slysel jsem, ze to nekdo resil
> > pridanim
> > > > keram. kondenzatoru, ale uz jsem na netu nenasel kam ho pridaval.
> > > > > Neporadil by nekdo?
> > > > 
> > > > Ted zrovna se snazim predelat Twister protoze tam byl problem co se
> > > > musel resit kompletnim redesignem mechaniky a tistaku.
> > > > 
> > > > Ted je to ve vyrobe a az tistak prijde tak ho osadim.
> > > 
> > > U me je v priprave patchovaci deska pro stary "spotrebni" twister, aby se
> > > nemusel vyhazovat :)
> > 
> > Ja jsem to zkousel a zjistil jsem ze bez zmeny mechaniky to nejde. Leda
> > ze by ta tvoje patchovaci deska obsahovala krabicku.
> 
> Obsahuje. Jen me jeste sere ta ramova antena kolem pulky tistaku by Clock :(

To uz je fixnuty a prototyp ve vyrobe.

CL<
> > 
> > CL<
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From quintusmurray at yahoo.com  Fri Apr 28 23:51:51 2006
From: quintusmurray at yahoo.com (Quintus Murray)
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 15:51:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Ronja] Ronja Digest, Vol 36, Issue 32
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1146222001.23072.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
Message-ID: <20060428225151.24723.qmail@web53411.mail.yahoo.com>




then if that's the case maybe you can try useing a solar modulator to modulate and store sunlight modulater at 10Mhz  at TX or more to enhance the ronja.




		
---------------------------------
Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls.  Great rates starting at 1&cent;/min.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20060428/f7efa50a/attachment.html 

From krepa at seznam.cz  Fri Apr 28 23:53:23 2006
From: krepa at seznam.cz (Pavel Krejci)
Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 00:53:23 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Ronja Digest, Vol 36, Issue 32
In-Reply-To: <20060428225151.24723.qmail@web53411.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20060428225151.24723.qmail@web53411.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <44529CE3.2060501@seznam.cz>

Or you can try to use it and once a while report how is the progress.
I think we do not have your quality.

Quintus Murray napsal(a):
> 
> *//*
> 
> 
>     then if that's the case maybe you can try useing a solar modulator
>     to modulate and store sunlight modulater at 10Mhz  at TX or more to
>     enhance the ronja.
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great 
> rates starting at 1?/min. 
> <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail_us/taglines/postman7/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=39666/*http://messenger.yahoo.com>
> 
> 
>  <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail_us/taglines/postman7/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=39666/*http://messenger.yahoo.com>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>  <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail_us/taglines/postman7/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=39666/*http://messenger.yahoo.com>



From quintusmurray at yahoo.com  Sat Apr 29 00:02:52 2006
From: quintusmurray at yahoo.com (Quintus Murray)
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 16:02:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Ronja] Ronja Digest, Vol 36, Issue 33
In-Reply-To: <mailman.648.1146240168.22549.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
Message-ID: <20060428230252.54076.qmail@web53406.mail.yahoo.com>


When will you build and realese a 100mbps or at least 10 to 16Mbps ronja with some CPU that supports wifi 802.11G or when 2007 is here an 802.11N version???
--------------
> New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big.
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja




------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 15:18:39 +0200
From: Karel Kulhavy 
Subject: Re: [Ronja] Ronja Digest, Vol 36, Issue 28
To: Twibright Ronja 
Message-ID: <20060428131839.GF30625 at kestrel.barix.local>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

On Fri, Apr 28, 2006 at 09:52:49AM +0200, Jakub Ladman wrote:
> Did you ever seen what ronja is?

See is not enough. Between eyes and hands there is a long way paved with
billions of neurons. And every single neuron from these billions can
fail ;-)

CL<
> Ronja is point to point joint, not point to multipoint - it really can not 
> operate as access point.
> 
> 
> Dne p? 28. dubna 2006 04:22 Quintus Murray napsal(a):
> > What do you mean by ronja for backbones and AP's with WIFI cilents for the
> > end hop???? what do I need to use the ronja as a wifi access point????? and
> > what do you mean by end hop???
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save
> > big.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja



------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 15:20:54 +0200
From: Karel Kulhavy 
Subject: Re: [Ronja] Ronja Digest, Vol 36, Issue 28
To: Twibright Ronja 
Message-ID: <20060428132054.GG30625 at kestrel.barix.local>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

On Fri, Apr 28, 2006 at 10:04:41AM +0200, WaCX wrote:
> Hi Quintus,
> if you are think of make omnidirectional ronja, its impossible because
> for that you'll need several hundreds watts of light power modulated

Not several hundred. You would need the EIRP, which is about 20kW. With
20% conversion efficiency you need 100kW permanent input electrical
power. Good luck with electricity bills.

> at 10MHz for TX for few hundred meter radius and you'll never get
> license to use such a device, not even in IR raddiation pattern. And

You don't need licence. If the device is eye-safe on-axis, it's eye safe
everywhere. You may just run into troubles with light pollution issues
:)

CL<

> for RX, i'cant even imagine how it can be done:-)

Omnidirectional RX? Just take out the RX from the optical head. But
the range won't be as good as it used to be ;-P

CL<

> wacx
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: Quintus Murray 
>   To: ronja at lists.pointless.net 
>   Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 4:22 AM
>   Subject: Re: [Ronja] Ronja Digest, Vol 36, Issue 28
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>     What do you mean by ronja for backbones and AP's with WIFI cilents for the end hop???? what do I need to use the ronja as a wifi access point????? and what do you mean by end hop???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>   New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big.
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
>   _______________________________________________
>   Ronja mailing list
>   Ronja at lists.pointless.net
>   http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja

> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja




------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 16:54:40 +0200
From: "WaCX" 
Subject: Re: [Ronja] Ronja Digest, Vol 36, Issue 28
To: "Twibright Ronja" 
Message-ID: <001001c66ad3$adbb8830$0201a8c0 at wacxnote>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
 reply-type=original

Jasne ze by stacilo ho vyndat z optiky a pouzit treba 12xRX na pokryti 360? 
oblasti, ale ja jsem tim myslel prave citlivost a ruseni. myslim ze 50m 
okruh uz by byl uspech:-)
wacx
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Karel Kulhavy" 
To: "Twibright Ronja" 
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 3:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Ronja] Ronja Digest, Vol 36, Issue 28


> On Fri, Apr 28, 2006 at 10:04:41AM +0200, WaCX wrote:
>> Hi Quintus,
>> if you are think of make omnidirectional ronja, its impossible because
>> for that you'll need several hundreds watts of light power modulated
>
> Not several hundred. You would need the EIRP, which is about 20kW. With
> 20% conversion efficiency you need 100kW permanent input electrical
> power. Good luck with electricity bills.
>
>> at 10MHz for TX for few hundred meter radius and you'll never get
>> license to use such a device, not even in IR raddiation pattern. And
>
> You don't need licence. If the device is eye-safe on-axis, it's eye safe
> everywhere. You may just run into troubles with light pollution issues
> :)
>
> CL<
>
>> for RX, i'cant even imagine how it can be done:-)
>
> Omnidirectional RX? Just take out the RX from the optical head. But
> the range won't be as good as it used to be ;-P
>
> CL<
>
>> wacx
>>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>>   From: Quintus Murray
>>   To: ronja at lists.pointless.net
>>   Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 4:22 AM
>>   Subject: Re: [Ronja] Ronja Digest, Vol 36, Issue 28
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>     What do you mean by ronja for backbones and AP's with WIFI cilents 
>> for the end hop???? what do I need to use the ronja as a wifi access 
>> point????? and what do you mean by end hop???
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>   New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and 
>> save big.
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>   _______________________________________________
>>   Ronja mailing list
>>   Ronja at lists.pointless.net
>>   http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ronja mailing list
>> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja 




------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 17:01:25 +0200
From: "WaCX" 
Subject: Re: [Ronja] Ronja Digest, Vol 36, Issue 28
To: "Twibright Ronja" 
Message-ID: <001901c66ad4$9f1f2fb0$0201a8c0 at wacxnote>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
 reply-type=original

A ted jsem si navic uvedomil ze je to cely pitomost protoze by to pseudo 
apcko muselo fungovat bud hub a dost pochybuju ze by si ronja poradila se 
splnenim podminek pro CS/CDMA.
wacx
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Karel Kulhavy" 
To: "Twibright Ronja" 
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 3:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Ronja] Ronja Digest, Vol 36, Issue 28


> On Fri, Apr 28, 2006 at 10:04:41AM +0200, WaCX wrote:
>> Hi Quintus,
>> if you are think of make omnidirectional ronja, its impossible because
>> for that you'll need several hundreds watts of light power modulated
>
> Not several hundred. You would need the EIRP, which is about 20kW. With
> 20% conversion efficiency you need 100kW permanent input electrical
> power. Good luck with electricity bills.
>
>> at 10MHz for TX for few hundred meter radius and you'll never get
>> license to use such a device, not even in IR raddiation pattern. And
>
> You don't need licence. If the device is eye-safe on-axis, it's eye safe
> everywhere. You may just run into troubles with light pollution issues
> :)
>
> CL<
>
>> for RX, i'cant even imagine how it can be done:-)
>
> Omnidirectional RX? Just take out the RX from the optical head. But
> the range won't be as good as it used to be ;-P
>
> CL<
>
>> wacx
>>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>>   From: Quintus Murray
>>   To: ronja at lists.pointless.net
>>   Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 4:22 AM
>>   Subject: Re: [Ronja] Ronja Digest, Vol 36, Issue 28
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>     What do you mean by ronja for backbones and AP's with WIFI cilents 
>> for the end hop???? what do I need to use the ronja as a wifi access 
>> point????? and what do you mean by end hop???
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>   New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and 
>> save big.
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>   _______________________________________________
>>   Ronja mailing list
>>   Ronja at lists.pointless.net
>>   http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ronja mailing list
>> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja 




------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 18:02:21 +0200
From: Petr Seliger 
Subject: Re: [Ronja] TX a ruseni TV
To: Twibright Ronja 
Message-ID: <1146240141.44523c8d85777 at desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-2

Cituji z emailu od Karel Kulhavy :

> On Thu, Apr 27, 2006 at 08:26:00PM +0200, Petr Seliger wrote:
> > Cituji z emailu od Karel Kulhavy :
> > 
> > > On Thu, Apr 27, 2006 at 12:04:54PM +0200, Michal Divi? wrote:
> > > > Ahoj, 
> > > > mam problem s jednou instalaci Ronji - sousedovi to rusi TV, ani antena
> ani
> > > Ronja ale nemuze byt umistena jinde, slysel jsem, ze to nekdo resil
> pridanim
> > > keram. kondenzatoru, ale uz jsem na netu nenasel kam ho pridaval.
> > > > Neporadil by nekdo?
> > > 
> > > Ted zrovna se snazim predelat Twister protoze tam byl problem co se
> > > musel resit kompletnim redesignem mechaniky a tistaku.
> > > 
> > > Ted je to ve vyrobe a az tistak prijde tak ho osadim.
> > 
> > U me je v priprave patchovaci deska pro stary "spotrebni" twister, aby se
> > nemusel vyhazovat :)
> 
> Ja jsem to zkousel a zjistil jsem ze bez zmeny mechaniky to nejde. Leda
> ze by ta tvoje patchovaci deska obsahovala krabicku.

Obsahuje. Jen me jeste sere ta ramova antena kolem pulky tistaku by Clock :(
> 
> CL<




------------------------------

_______________________________________________
Ronja mailing list
Ronja at lists.pointless.net
http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


End of Ronja Digest, Vol 36, Issue 33
*************************************


		
---------------------------------
Blab-away for as little as 1?/min. Make  PC-to-Phone Calls using Yahoo! Messenger with Voice.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20060428/adf7d9a6/attachment-0001.html 

From asteri_x at freemail.hu  Sat Apr 29 09:45:27 2006
From: asteri_x at freemail.hu (Martin)
Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 10:45:27 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Ronja Digest, Vol 36, Issue 33
In-Reply-To: <20060428230252.54076.qmail@web53406.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20060428230252.54076.qmail@web53406.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <445327A7.8070407@freemail.hu>

Quintus Murray ?rta:
> 
> When will you build and realese a 100mbps or at least 10 to 16Mbps ronja 
> with some CPU that supports wifi 802.11G or when 2007 is here an 802.11N 
> version???
> 


We pass You the pleasure to design, prototype, test, and then 
manufacture it...

bye,
Martin




From anmic at fmg.sk  Sat Apr 29 13:22:44 2006
From: anmic at fmg.sk (anMic)
Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 14:22:44 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] hackovatelne switche
In-Reply-To: <444E9CA4.3010504@hoidekr.net>
References: <444E72F5.80302@centrum.cz> <444E7623.3000308@hkfree.org>
	<444E9CA4.3010504@hoidekr.net>
Message-ID: <44535A94.6020909@fmg.sk>

Mame 2 pop?jen? switche
OvisLink Live FSH5R 5port compact switch
(1: 1x 10FD, 4x Auto
2: 3x 10FD, 2x Auto)

Mam podobne zkusenosti s rychlosti, jak popisuje p. Hoidekr.

Kdyz je zapojen jenom 1 a na druhe strane twister primo do 
PC, situace je o neco lepsi.

anMic

Jan Hoidekr napsal(a):
> Delal jsem upravu techto switchu pro Ronju. Na jedne strane SB na druhe 
> SC varianta. Kazda ma trochu jiny pinout, musi se uzemnit jine piny, viz 
> datasheet.
> Zkusenost? Zbytecna prace. Vyzkousejte si dva pocitace proti sobe s 
> nastavenym 10FD pres switch. V jednom smeru funguji dobre, ale jakmile 
> pridate druhy smer, zacne prenosova rychlost "houpat" a v souctu to neni 
> o moc vic nez HD. Neni to problem 10Mb, ale ani pri 100Mb neumi 
> fullduplex. Opet lze jednoduse vyzkouset.
> Uplne stejne se pak chovaji kdyz je nastavite natvrdo na 10FD prepajenim 
> a spojite kabelem (nebo Ronja mezi nimi).
> 
> Honza
> PS: Mozna jsem nekde neudelal chybu, kdyztak me opravte a poradte.
> 
> Kendy wrote:
> 
>>Edimax ES-3105P (ma RTL8305SC, ale je to to same jako ten SB)
>>Cena do 400,-
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Jakub Michn?k napsal(a):
>>
>>
>>
>>>chtel jsem se zeptat jake switche ktere jsou zrovna v prodeji maji ten 
>>>cip, ktery jde nastavit natvrdo na 10Mbps FD. byl to tusim RTL8305SB. 
>>>nerad bych kupoval neco zkusmo, oni ten sortiment v PC obchodech meni 
>>>tak rychle ze je mozna mozne ze se uz switche s tim cipem ani nedelaji 
>>>.. tak pokud ma nekdo aktualni informace budu za ne vdecny... diky moc
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Ronja mailing list
>>>Ronja at lists.pointless.net
>>>http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Ronja mailing list
>>Ronja at lists.pointless.net
>>http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>>
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 
> 


From anmic at fmg.sk  Sat Apr 29 13:41:01 2006
From: anmic at fmg.sk (anMic)
Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 14:41:01 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] TX a ruseni TV
In-Reply-To: <1749.4189-9344-410955897-1146132294@seznam.cz>
References: <1749.4189-9344-410955897-1146132294@seznam.cz>
Message-ID: <44535EDD.9050700@fmg.sk>

Michal Divi? napsal(a):
> Ahoj, 
> mam problem s jednou instalaci Ronji - sousedovi to rusi TV, ani antena ani Ronja ale nemuze byt umistena jinde, slysel jsem, ze to nekdo resil pridanim keram. kondenzatoru, ale uz jsem na netu nenasel kam ho pridaval.
> Neporadil by nekdo?

Moje reseni je castecne. Nepomohlo na 100 %, ale znacne to 
zredukovalo ruseni.

Zmeny:

- 12V napajeni k hlavicim vedeno pres stredni vodic koaxu k 
TX a je od signalu oddeleno pres tlumivky 68uH (1 v 
Twisteru, 1 v TX)

- "dratove" civky, ktere uvadi navod, nahrazeny kupovanymi 
axialnimi z GME (maji SRF nekde nad 200 MHz tusim)

- propojovaci napajeci dvojlinka mezi RX a TX tubusy 
nahrazena stinenym vodicem

- pridany keramicke kondenzatory 1uF, jak tu radil Clock
(3x na vstup napajeni do RX, 3x na vystup napajeni z 
Twisteru - pred tlumivku 68uH)

Jak jsem zminil, vyresilo to situaci z asi 90%. Nejake 
drobne ruseni pretrvava, ale situace je znacne lepsi.

Uplnym resenim bude asi prechod sousedu na digitalni 
vysilani tv.:)

S pozdravem
Jan Matyas



> Michal
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 
> 


From clock at twibright.com  Sat Apr 29 19:12:38 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 20:12:38 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Ronja Digest, Vol 36, Issue 32
In-Reply-To: <20060428225151.24723.qmail@web53411.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.1.1146222001.23072.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
	<20060428225151.24723.qmail@web53411.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20060429181238.GC16187@kestrel>

On Fri, Apr 28, 2006 at 03:51:51PM -0700, Quintus Murray wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> then if that's the case maybe you can try useing a solar modulator to
> modulate and store sunlight modulater at 10Mhz  at TX or more to

With storing sunlight do you mean powering Ronja from solar cells and
battery? Why not.

CL<
> enhance the ronja.

> 
> 
> 
> 
> 		
> ---------------------------------
> Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls.  Great rates starting at 1&cent;/min.
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja



From clock at twibright.com  Sat Apr 29 19:15:23 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 20:15:23 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] TX a ruseni TV
In-Reply-To: <44535EDD.9050700@fmg.sk>
References: <1749.4189-9344-410955897-1146132294@seznam.cz>
	<44535EDD.9050700@fmg.sk>
Message-ID: <20060429181523.GD16187@kestrel>

On Sat, Apr 29, 2006 at 02:41:01PM +0200, anMic wrote:
> Michal Divi? napsal(a):
> > Ahoj, 
> > mam problem s jednou instalaci Ronji - sousedovi to rusi TV, ani antena ani Ronja ale nemuze byt umistena jinde, slysel jsem, ze to nekdo resil pridanim keram. kondenzatoru, ale uz jsem na netu nenasel kam ho pridaval.
> > Neporadil by nekdo?
> 
> Moje reseni je castecne. Nepomohlo na 100 %, ale znacne to 
> zredukovalo ruseni.
> 
> Zmeny:
> 
> - 12V napajeni k hlavicim vedeno pres stredni vodic koaxu k 
> TX a je od signalu oddeleno pres tlumivky 68uH (1 v 
> Twisteru, 1 v TX)

Jak si to stoji impedancne tahle sestava na 1MHz?

> 
> - "dratove" civky, ktere uvadi navod, nahrazeny kupovanymi 
> axialnimi z GME (maji SRF nekde nad 200 MHz tusim)
> 
> - propojovaci napajeci dvojlinka mezi RX a TX tubusy 
> nahrazena stinenym vodicem
> 
> - pridany keramicke kondenzatory 1uF, jak tu radil Clock
> (3x na vstup napajeni do RX, 3x na vystup napajeni z 
> Twisteru - pred tlumivku 68uH)
> 
> Jak jsem zminil, vyresilo to situaci z asi 90%. Nejake 
> drobne ruseni pretrvava, ale situace je znacne lepsi.
> 
> Uplnym resenim bude asi prechod sousedu na digitalni 
> vysilani tv.:)

Jo muzou si poridit prijimac od Ronji a prijimat v sirokouhlem formatu
Ogg Theora 10Mbps, coz je velmi vysoka kvalita tusim :)

CL<
> 
> S pozdravem
> Jan Matyas
> 
> 
> 
> > Michal
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ronja mailing list
> > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> > 
> > 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From polous at katka.biz  Sun Apr 30 09:24:05 2006
From: polous at katka.biz (Martin Polehla)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 10:24:05 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] To musite videt / you must see this
In-Reply-To: <20060427165807.GD7115@kestrel.barix.local>
References: <200604271102.16153.ladmanj@volny.cz>	<1146134867.4450a1539a131@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>	<200604271313.25111.ladmanj@volny.cz>
	<20060427165807.GD7115@kestrel.barix.local>
Message-ID: <44547425.5090604@katka.biz>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Karel Kulhavy wrote:

> On Thu, Apr 27, 2006 at 01:13:25PM +0200, Jakub Ladman wrote:
>
>> Dne ?t 27. dubna 2006 12:47 Petr Seliger napsal(a):
>>
>>> Cituji z emailu od Jakub Ladman <ladmanj na volny.cz>:
>>>
>>>> http://bleesmrt.hopto.org/~ladmanj/aqvarium/ aneb co
>>>> silikagel nepobral
>>>
>>> Jak my antenari rikame: "nejlepsi tesneni je dira."
>>
>> Presne tak, tesnit to je proste hovadina, musi to vetrat
>
>
> Ja nevim my mame Ronji na balkone utesneny a voda v nich neni. A
> normalne na ne prsi. Taky se naskyta logicka otazka "kdyz je to
> utesneny kudy se tam ta voda dostala"? Teleportovala se tam 4.
> dimenzi za pouziti jestirku Astara Serana a Xenu?
>
> Spis je problem v tom ze se uzivatel pokousel o utesneni a
> nepovedlo se mu to. A nebo se o to tesneni nepokusil vubec.
>
> CL<

neni to prvni ronja, u ktere byla pozorovana hladinka v pulcec cocky.
Mozna by bylo vhodne se zamyslet nad pravdepodobnosti uspechu "uplneho
utesneni" v domacich amaterskych podminkach, pro ktere je ronja urcena
:-). A uz v projektu pocitat s moznosti vnitku vody dovnitr tubusu.

Moznosti jsou napriklad:
1) Dat k sekci v navodu, kde se o utesnovani pise fotky spatne
utesnenych kousku, popis nejcastejsich pricin a zpusob prevence.
2) Utesni i krabicky modulu - druha zona protivodni ochrany.
3) Vypustni dira (ventil) na dne tubusu.
4) Odsavaci soustava - pro oblasti s velkym mnozstvim srazek
*   Nebo jejich kombinace - napriklad 2), 3) a pro velmi destive
oblasti navic 4)
** u 3) a 4) je mozne pridat take meric mnozstvi protekle vody a
pouzivat ronju jako meric srazek v dane oblasti

Take by mohla jit voda v tubusu nejak vyuzit, napriklad k chlazeni
modulu, pestovani rybicek ...  =;-]

peknej caro-den
p0l0us
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.2 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFEVHQlYo9JRD7EbFIRAiJyAJwPdxlwxdF/nEyeM+o9PKCX7/6TTACggu1l
M4SAhs1T1el1Ro0sxgLOnHM=
=qr6a
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----



From clock at twibright.com  Sun Apr 30 10:11:41 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 11:11:41 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] To musite videt / you must see this
In-Reply-To: <44547425.5090604@katka.biz>
References: <200604271102.16153.ladmanj@volny.cz>
	<1146134867.4450a1539a131@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
	<200604271313.25111.ladmanj@volny.cz>
	<20060427165807.GD7115@kestrel.barix.local>
	<44547425.5090604@katka.biz>
Message-ID: <20060430091141.GE26056@kestrel>

On Sun, Apr 30, 2006 at 10:24:05AM +0200, Martin Polehla wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Karel Kulhavy wrote:
> 
> > On Thu, Apr 27, 2006 at 01:13:25PM +0200, Jakub Ladman wrote:
> >
> >> Dne ?t 27. dubna 2006 12:47 Petr Seliger napsal(a):
> >>
> >>> Cituji z emailu od Jakub Ladman <ladmanj at volny.cz>:
> >>>
> >>>> http://bleesmrt.hopto.org/~ladmanj/aqvarium/ aneb co
> >>>> silikagel nepobral
> >>>
> >>> Jak my antenari rikame: "nejlepsi tesneni je dira."
> >>
> >> Presne tak, tesnit to je proste hovadina, musi to vetrat
> >
> >
> > Ja nevim my mame Ronji na balkone utesneny a voda v nich neni. A
> > normalne na ne prsi. Taky se naskyta logicka otazka "kdyz je to
> > utesneny kudy se tam ta voda dostala"? Teleportovala se tam 4.
> > dimenzi za pouziti jestirku Astara Serana a Xenu?
> >
> > Spis je problem v tom ze se uzivatel pokousel o utesneni a
> > nepovedlo se mu to. A nebo se o to tesneni nepokusil vubec.
> >
> > CL<
> 
> neni to prvni ronja, u ktere byla pozorovana hladinka v pulcec cocky.
> Mozna by bylo vhodne se zamyslet nad pravdepodobnosti uspechu "uplneho
> utesneni" v domacich amaterskych podminkach, pro ktere je ronja urcena
> :-). A uz v projektu pocitat s moznosti vnitku vody dovnitr tubusu.

Kdyz clovek nedodrzuje navod, neda se pocitat vubec s nicim. Neni mozne
napsat navod tak, aby kdyz to uzivatel postavi v rozporu s nim, tak aby
to zarucene fungovalo.

Kdyz ho clovek bude dodrzovat tak to bude fungovat s vysokou
pravdepodobnosti. V navodu se pise o zakladovce a o barve pro venkovni
pouziti. Jakub Ladman mi neodpovedel na moji otazku ohledne jestli ten
balakryl byl venkovni (venkovni balakryl existuje) a jestli byly
dodrzeny podminky natirani predepsany vyrobcem a misto toho ze me delal
blbecka - muzeme se proto jen dohadovat, ze ten balakryl asi venkovni
nebyl.

> 
> Moznosti jsou napriklad:
> 1) Dat k sekci v navodu, kde se o utesnovani pise fotky spatne
> utesnenych kousku, popis nejcastejsich pricin a zpusob prevence.

Jo to tam planuju dat tyhle fotky.

> 2) Utesni i krabicky modulu - druha zona protivodni ochrany.

No ja bych spis zavedlu druhou zonu ochrany jmenem "dodrzovani navodu".
Cernobyl taky bouchnul protoze ten reaktor pouzivali v rozporu s
navodem. U Cernobylu argumentovali tim ze "navod byl slozity a kdybysme
ho do puntiku dodrzovali tak bysme se do toho zamotali". To se ale resi
tak, ze se developerovi navodu napisou podnety ke zvyseni ergonomie a
usability.  Bohuzel spousta developeru jsou kokoti a kdyz sem jim takovy
podnet napise, odmitaji to implementovat, i kdyz to skoro nic nestoji.
Takze pak lidi obecne takove reporty neposilaji protoze na jejich
kokotisticke vylevy uz nejsou zvedavi.

Tady napriklad jsem reportoval at daj par symlinku do manualovych
stranek at je snazsi nalezt dokumentaci:
https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=131379

Ja uz jsem na to vyresil tak ze gentoo portage jsem dal do /trash a
nove knihovny si kompiluju manualne, protoze s projektem kterej je
vedenej s takovymhle pristupem opravdu nema smysl ztracet cas :)

> 3) Vypustni dira (ventil) na dne tubusu.

Tak to uz je uplna blbost - dirou tam nadifunduje/tepelnejma zmenama se
nadejcha vlhkost a pak bude kondenzovat na cocce i kdyz je tam
silikagel. Overeno. Ventil bude k nicemu - ten se da pouzit jen kdyz tam
bude rozumna hladina vody, ale problemy nastanou uz asi kdyz tam zadna
kapalna voda jeste neni, jen vysoka vlhkost. Navic neni mozne aby chodil
nekdo na strechu to vypoustet, je potreba aby zarizeni fungovalo pokud
mozno bez obsluhy.

> 4) Odsavaci soustava - pro oblasti s velkym mnozstvim srazek

Nebo pro lidi s nedostatkem discipliny na to aby byli schopny dodrzet
navod. Nebo misto odsavaci soustavy soustavu ktera by jim dala elektricky
sok pokazde kdyz se odchyli od navodu. Ta by byla mozna jednodussi -
nezahrnovala by mechaniku.

CL<
> *   Nebo jejich kombinace - napriklad 2), 3) a pro velmi destive
> oblasti navic 4)
> ** u 3) a 4) je mozne pridat take meric mnozstvi protekle vody a
> pouzivat ronju jako meric srazek v dane oblasti
> 
> Take by mohla jit voda v tubusu nejak vyuzit, napriklad k chlazeni
> modulu, pestovani rybicek ...  =;-]
> 
> peknej caro-den
> p0l0us
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.2 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
> 
> iD8DBQFEVHQlYo9JRD7EbFIRAiJyAJwPdxlwxdF/nEyeM+o9PKCX7/6TTACggu1l
> M4SAhs1T1el1Ro0sxgLOnHM=
> =qr6a
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From petr.cipis at tiscali.cz  Sun Apr 30 11:40:40 2006
From: petr.cipis at tiscali.cz (Cipis)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 12:40:40 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] To musite videt / you must see this
References: <200604271102.16153.ladmanj@volny.cz><1146134867.4450a1539a131@desitka.sh.cvut.cz><200604271313.25111.ladmanj@volny.cz><20060427165807.GD7115@kestrel.barix.local><44547425.5090604@katka.biz>
	<20060430091141.GE26056@kestrel>
Message-ID: <002501c66c42$869e4b00$4d46a8c0@cipis.net>

Myslim, ze obecne je lepsi tam na zaver stavby vyvrtat dole malou diru na
odtok vody.
Neco hermeticky uzavrit je v amaterskych podminkach strasne spatne
realizovatelne.
Ta dirka vyrazne zvysi ochranu pred vodou a na teplotu uvnitr nema nejaky
velky vliv.
Mimochodem se tento zpusob pouziva u hromady profesionalnich vyrobku, anteny
a dalsi veci, co se montuji ven.

Cipis



From ladmanj at volny.cz  Sun Apr 30 11:50:45 2006
From: ladmanj at volny.cz (Jakub Ladman)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 12:50:45 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] To musite videt / you must see this
In-Reply-To: <20060430091141.GE26056@kestrel>
References: <200604271102.16153.ladmanj@volny.cz> <44547425.5090604@katka.biz>
	<20060430091141.GE26056@kestrel>
Message-ID: <200604301250.45913.ladmanj@volny.cz>


> Kdyz ho clovek bude dodrzovat tak to bude fungovat s vysokou
> pravdepodobnosti. V navodu se pise o zakladovce a o barve pro venkovni
> pouziti. Jakub Ladman mi neodpovedel na moji otazku ohledne jestli ten
> balakryl byl venkovni (venkovni balakryl existuje) a jestli byly
> dodrzeny podminky natirani predepsany vyrobcem a misto toho ze me delal
> blbecka - muzeme se proto jen dohadovat, ze ten balakryl asi venkovni
> nebyl.
>

Z nikoho jsem nedelal blbecka.  A o barve cim to bylo natreny vim jen ze to 
byl balakryl a ze to vypadalo desne. Navic nebyla pouzita vubec zadna 
zakladovka.
On to kamos totiz od nekoho koupil a kdyz jsem to uvidel malem to se mnou 
seklo.

Jakub Ladman

> > Moznosti jsou napriklad:
> > 1) Dat k sekci v navodu, kde se o utesnovani pise fotky spatne
> > utesnenych kousku, popis nejcastejsich pricin a zpusob prevence.
>
> Jo to tam planuju dat tyhle fotky.
>
> > 2) Utesni i krabicky modulu - druha zona protivodni ochrany.
>
> No ja bych spis zavedlu druhou zonu ochrany jmenem "dodrzovani navodu".
> Cernobyl taky bouchnul protoze ten reaktor pouzivali v rozporu s
> navodem. U Cernobylu argumentovali tim ze "navod byl slozity a kdybysme
> ho do puntiku dodrzovali tak bysme se do toho zamotali". To se ale resi
> tak, ze se developerovi navodu napisou podnety ke zvyseni ergonomie a
> usability.  Bohuzel spousta developeru jsou kokoti a kdyz sem jim takovy
> podnet napise, odmitaji to implementovat, i kdyz to skoro nic nestoji.
> Takze pak lidi obecne takove reporty neposilaji protoze na jejich
> kokotisticke vylevy uz nejsou zvedavi.
>
> Tady napriklad jsem reportoval at daj par symlinku do manualovych
> stranek at je snazsi nalezt dokumentaci:
> https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=131379
>
> Ja uz jsem na to vyresil tak ze gentoo portage jsem dal do /trash a
> nove knihovny si kompiluju manualne, protoze s projektem kterej je
> vedenej s takovymhle pristupem opravdu nema smysl ztracet cas :)
>
> > 3) Vypustni dira (ventil) na dne tubusu.
>
> Tak to uz je uplna blbost - dirou tam nadifunduje/tepelnejma zmenama se
> nadejcha vlhkost a pak bude kondenzovat na cocce i kdyz je tam
> silikagel. Overeno. Ventil bude k nicemu - ten se da pouzit jen kdyz tam
> bude rozumna hladina vody, ale problemy nastanou uz asi kdyz tam zadna
> kapalna voda jeste neni, jen vysoka vlhkost. Navic neni mozne aby chodil
> nekdo na strechu to vypoustet, je potreba aby zarizeni fungovalo pokud
> mozno bez obsluhy.
>
> > 4) Odsavaci soustava - pro oblasti s velkym mnozstvim srazek
>
> Nebo pro lidi s nedostatkem discipliny na to aby byli schopny dodrzet
> navod. Nebo misto odsavaci soustavy soustavu ktera by jim dala elektricky
> sok pokazde kdyz se odchyli od navodu. Ta by byla mozna jednodussi -
> nezahrnovala by mechaniku.
>
> CL<
>
> > *   Nebo jejich kombinace - napriklad 2), 3) a pro velmi destive
> > oblasti navic 4)
> > ** u 3) a 4) je mozne pridat take meric mnozstvi protekle vody a
> > pouzivat ronju jako meric srazek v dane oblasti
> >
> > Take by mohla jit voda v tubusu nejak vyuzit, napriklad k chlazeni
> > modulu, pestovani rybicek ...  =;-]
> >
> > peknej caro-den
> > p0l0us
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.2 (GNU/Linux)
> > Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
> >
> > iD8DBQFEVHQlYo9JRD7EbFIRAiJyAJwPdxlwxdF/nEyeM+o9PKCX7/6TTACggu1l
> > M4SAhs1T1el1Ro0sxgLOnHM=
> > =qr6a
> > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ronja mailing list
> > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From asteri_x at freemail.hu  Sun Apr 30 12:23:17 2006
From: asteri_x at freemail.hu (Martin)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 13:23:17 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Sprachen
Message-ID: <44549E25.1090103@freemail.hu>

Liebe deutschsprachige Mitstreiter... :)

Jetzt, wo ich schon zum x-ten mal nur noch Bahnhof verstehe von dem, was 
hier auf der Liste passiert, bin ich der Meinung, das alle, die unsere 
Sprache reden k?nnen oder wollen, das auch tun sollten. Hier und ab jetzt.
Denn wenn alle anderen ihre eigene, f?r den Rest der Welt 
unverst?ndliche Sprache sprechen, dann warum nicht auch wir.
Vielleicht sind wir garnicht mal so wenig :)

Ich habe es versucht ein Bischen von den E-Mails zu ?bersetzen, ist aber 
an mangelndem Babel-Fish gescheitert.

Englisch ist zwar ein einfaches Mittel zur Kommunikation, aber ich 
finde, der Umweg lohnt sich nicht, wenn es auch einfacher geht.
Ach ja, und den Ami-Bengel der keinen blassen Schimmer von Ronja hat, 
k?nnen wir so auch ausschalten. Der nerft mich schon lange.

Das Aquarium hat mir auch sehr gefallen. :)

Viel Spa? beim Basteln!

Martin



From ronja at hansmi.ch  Sun Apr 30 13:00:53 2006
From: ronja at hansmi.ch (Michael Hanselmann)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 14:00:53 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Sprachen
In-Reply-To: <44549E25.1090103@freemail.hu>
References: <44549E25.1090103@freemail.hu>
Message-ID: <20060430120053.GA28005@hansmi.ch>

Hoi Martin

On Sun, Apr 30, 2006 at 01:23:17PM +0200, Martin wrote:
> Jetzt, wo ich schon zum x-ten mal nur noch Bahnhof verstehe von dem, was 
> hier auf der Liste passiert, bin ich der Meinung, das alle, die unsere 
> Sprache reden k?nnen oder wollen, das auch tun sollten. Hier und ab jetzt.

Do h?scht R?cht. Abr vilicht gsescht jetzt s?lber, dasdi nid alli L??t
verschtond. Dodevo abseh chaschd jo nied emol du dini eigni Sproch! Da
haist d?det dass!</Schweizerdeutsch>

Not being able to read Czech myself, I would really appreciate if we
could make this list English only. But that's not my decision.

Greets,
Michael

-- 
Gentoo Linux developer, http://hansmi.ch/, http://forkbomb.ch/
Anyway, my money is still on use strict vars . . .
             -- Larry Wall in <199710011704.KAA21395 at wall.org>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 191 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20060430/ba8d3023/attachment.bin 

From ladmanj at volny.cz  Sun Apr 30 13:55:59 2006
From: ladmanj at volny.cz (Jakub Ladman)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 14:55:59 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Sprachen
In-Reply-To: <20060430120053.GA28005@hansmi.ch>
References: <44549E25.1090103@freemail.hu> <20060430120053.GA28005@hansmi.ch>
Message-ID: <200604301455.59337.ladmanj@volny.cz>

> Not being able to read Czech myself, I would really appreciate if we
> could make this list English only. But that's not my decision.

Ronja project started in Czech republic and iirc most of the known 
instalations are in Czech republic. 
I am sorry, that here are emails not understabable to you, but i can't think 
in other language, than my native Czech.
I can read and write English and German, but write only in stupid simple 
sentences.

Any important informations are here in English, if i write something in Czech, 
it is only if i know, that it is not  (!) worldwide usable information.

Jakub Ladman


PS: Czech is one of official languages of european union. Start to learn 
now! :-D :-D :-D



From ronja at hansmi.ch  Sun Apr 30 14:05:30 2006
From: ronja at hansmi.ch (Michael Hanselmann)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 15:05:30 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Sprachen
In-Reply-To: <200604301455.59337.ladmanj@volny.cz>
References: <44549E25.1090103@freemail.hu> <20060430120053.GA28005@hansmi.ch>
	<200604301455.59337.ladmanj@volny.cz>
Message-ID: <20060430130530.GA28717@hansmi.ch>

Hello Jakub

On Sun, Apr 30, 2006 at 02:55:59PM +0200, Jakub Ladman wrote:
> Ronja project started in Czech republic and iirc most of the known 
> instalations are in Czech republic. 

True.

> I am sorry, that here are emails not understabable to you, but i can't
> think in other language, than my native Czech.

Agreed, it takes some training and practice.

> I can read and write English and German, but write only in stupid
> simple sentences.

I know native English speakers who are worse than you. So, you can be
quite happy about that. Additionally, I understood you. :-)

> PS: Czech is one of official languages of european union. Start to
> learn now! :-D :-D :-D

Switzerland isn't part of the European Union -- and I'm glad of that.

Greets,
Michael

-- 
Gentoo Linux developer, http://hansmi.ch/, http://forkbomb.ch/
Anybody want a binary telemetry frame editor written in Perl?
             -- Larry Wall in <199708012226.PAA22015 at wall.org>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 191 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20060430/d0a350a2/attachment.bin 

From clock at twibright.com  Sun Apr 30 13:53:25 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 14:53:25 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] To musite videt / you must see this
In-Reply-To: <002501c66c42$869e4b00$4d46a8c0@cipis.net>
References: <20060430091141.GE26056@kestrel>
	<002501c66c42$869e4b00$4d46a8c0@cipis.net>
Message-ID: <20060430125325.GA8231@kestrel>

On Sun, Apr 30, 2006 at 12:40:40PM +0200, Cipis wrote:
> Myslim, ze obecne je lepsi tam na zaver stavby vyvrtat dole malou diru na
> odtok vody.

Uz jsem rikal jednou proc je to nesmysl.

> Neco hermeticky uzavrit je v amaterskych podminkach strasne spatne
> realizovatelne.

To neni pravda - ja jsem to na balkone zatmelil a hermeticky uzavrene to
je. Realizovalo se mi to celkem jednoduse.

> Ta dirka vyrazne zvysi ochranu pred vodou a na teplotu uvnitr nema nejaky
> velky vliv.

Nikoliv ta dirka naopak zpusobi vyrazny problem s pronikanim vlhkosti
dovnitr, cili ucinek presne opacny.

> Mimochodem se tento zpusob pouziva u hromady profesionalnich vyrobku, anteny
> a dalsi veci, co se montuji ven.

Nesmyslny argument - tyhle vyrobky neobsahuji cocku ktera nesmi byt orosena.

CL<
> 
> Cipis
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From clock at twibright.com  Sun Apr 30 14:07:27 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 15:07:27 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Sprachen
In-Reply-To: <200604301455.59337.ladmanj@volny.cz>
References: <44549E25.1090103@freemail.hu> <20060430120053.GA28005@hansmi.ch>
	<200604301455.59337.ladmanj@volny.cz>
Message-ID: <20060430130727.GC8711@kestrel>

On Sun, Apr 30, 2006 at 02:55:59PM +0200, Jakub Ladman wrote:
> > Not being able to read Czech myself, I would really appreciate if we
> > could make this list English only. But that's not my decision.

Writing English is of course a good idea because English is simple and
international. But noone can be forced to this.

There's no rule you must not write Czech on this mailing list. The same
way German is allowed too. I don't think the Czech e-mails are creating
a problem for the readers. They can be easily detected and discarded.

Quintus Murray is worse, but you cannot still kick him because he may
not be troll, but rather stupid or mentally ill. Freedom of speech is
a difficult thing, but it still pays off.

CL<
> 
> Ronja project started in Czech republic and iirc most of the known 
> instalations are in Czech republic. 
> I am sorry, that here are emails not understabable to you, but i can't think 
> in other language, than my native Czech.
> I can read and write English and German, but write only in stupid simple 
> sentences.
> 
> Any important informations are here in English, if i write something in Czech, 
> it is only if i know, that it is not  (!) worldwide usable information.
> 
> Jakub Ladman
> 
> 
> PS: Czech is one of official languages of european union. Start to learn 
> now! :-D :-D :-D
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From clock at twibright.com  Sun Apr 30 14:09:53 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 15:09:53 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Sprachen
In-Reply-To: <20060430120053.GA28005@hansmi.ch>
References: <44549E25.1090103@freemail.hu> <20060430120053.GA28005@hansmi.ch>
Message-ID: <20060430130953.GD8711@kestrel>

On Sun, Apr 30, 2006 at 02:00:53PM +0200, Michael Hanselmann wrote:
> Hoi Martin
> 
> On Sun, Apr 30, 2006 at 01:23:17PM +0200, Martin wrote:
> > Jetzt, wo ich schon zum x-ten mal nur noch Bahnhof verstehe von dem, was 
> > hier auf der Liste passiert, bin ich der Meinung, das alle, die unsere 
> > Sprache reden k?nnen oder wollen, das auch tun sollten. Hier und ab jetzt.
> 
> Do h?scht R?cht. Abr vilicht gsescht jetzt s?lber, dasdi nid alli L??t
> verschtond. Dodevo abseh chaschd jo nied emol du dini eigni Sproch! Da
              ^^^^^^^^^^^^                 ^^^^                      
> haist d?det dass!</Schweizerdeutsch>
  ^^^^^^^^^^^

Words that have not been understood are underscored :)

CL<
> 
> Not being able to read Czech myself, I would really appreciate if we
> could make this list English only. But that's not my decision.
> 
> Greets,
> Michael
> 
> -- 
> Gentoo Linux developer, http://hansmi.ch/, http://forkbomb.ch/
> Anyway, my money is still on use strict vars . . .
>              -- Larry Wall in <199710011704.KAA21395 at wall.org>



> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja



From clock at twibright.com  Sun Apr 30 14:12:51 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 15:12:51 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Sprachen
In-Reply-To: <44549E25.1090103@freemail.hu>
References: <44549E25.1090103@freemail.hu>
Message-ID: <20060430131251.GE8711@kestrel>

On Sun, Apr 30, 2006 at 01:23:17PM +0200, Martin wrote:
> Liebe deutschsprachige Mitstreiter... :)
> 
> Jetzt, wo ich schon zum x-ten mal nur noch Bahnhof verstehe von dem, was 
> hier auf der Liste passiert, bin ich der Meinung, das alle, die unsere 
> Sprache reden k?nnen oder wollen, das auch tun sollten. Hier und ab jetzt.
> Denn wenn alle anderen ihre eigene, f?r den Rest der Welt 
> unverst?ndliche Sprache sprechen, dann warum nicht auch wir.
> Vielleicht sind wir garnicht mal so wenig :)

Ich will schwizerd??tsch statt hochd??tsch. Mindestens chann ich die
Rollende VBZ Gallerie in Zuuritrams dann verstehen :)

CL<
> 
> Ich habe es versucht ein Bischen von den E-Mails zu ?bersetzen, ist aber 
> an mangelndem Babel-Fish gescheitert.
> 
> Englisch ist zwar ein einfaches Mittel zur Kommunikation, aber ich 
> finde, der Umweg lohnt sich nicht, wenn es auch einfacher geht.
> Ach ja, und den Ami-Bengel der keinen blassen Schimmer von Ronja hat, 
> k?nnen wir so auch ausschalten. Der nerft mich schon lange.
> 
> Das Aquarium hat mir auch sehr gefallen. :)
> 
> Viel Spa? beim Basteln!
> 
> Martin
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From seligr at sh.cvut.cz  Sun Apr 30 15:22:00 2006
From: seligr at sh.cvut.cz (Petr Seliger)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 16:22:00 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] To musite videt / you must see this
In-Reply-To: <20060430091141.GE26056@kestrel>
References: <200604271102.16153.ladmanj@volny.cz>
	<1146134867.4450a1539a131@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
	<200604271313.25111.ladmanj@volny.cz>
	<20060427165807.GD7115@kestrel.barix.local>
	<44547425.5090604@katka.biz> <20060430091141.GE26056@kestrel>
Message-ID: <1146406920.4454c808efcfc@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>

> 
> > 2) Utesni i krabicky modulu - druha zona protivodni ochrany.
> 
> No ja bych spis zavedlu druhou zonu ochrany jmenem "dodrzovani navodu".
> Cernobyl taky bouchnul protoze ten reaktor pouzivali v rozporu s
> navodem. U Cernobylu argumentovali tim ze "navod byl slozity a kdybysme
> ho do puntiku dodrzovali tak bysme se do toho zamotali". To se ale resi
> tak, ze se developerovi navodu napisou podnety ke zvyseni ergonomie a
> usability.  Bohuzel spousta developeru jsou kokoti a kdyz sem jim takovy
> podnet napise, odmitaji to implementovat, i kdyz to skoro nic nestoji.
> Takze pak lidi obecne takove reporty neposilaji protoze na jejich
> kokotisticke vylevy uz nejsou zvedavi.
> 

To se da celkem snadno vyresit nastrikanim plosnaku lakem na bazi polyuretanu a
umistenim plosnaku svisle. Na experimentalnim spoji mam uz druhym rokem tubusy
uplne otevrene a zatim zadny problem.

> > 3) Vypustni dira (ventil) na dne tubusu.
> 
> Tak to uz je uplna blbost - dirou tam nadifunduje/tepelnejma zmenama se
> nadejcha vlhkost a pak bude kondenzovat na cocce i kdyz je tam
> silikagel. Overeno. Ventil bude k nicemu - ten se da pouzit jen kdyz tam
> bude rozumna hladina vody, ale problemy nastanou uz asi kdyz tam zadna
> kapalna voda jeste neni, jen vysoka vlhkost. Navic neni mozne aby chodil
> nekdo na strechu to vypoustet, je potreba aby zarizeni fungovalo pokud
> mozno bez obsluhy.
> 

Co takhle tam dat sifon s rtutovou zatkou. :)

> > 4) Odsavaci soustava - pro oblasti s velkym mnozstvim srazek
> 
> Nebo pro lidi s nedostatkem discipliny na to aby byli schopny dodrzet
> navod. Nebo misto odsavaci soustavy soustavu ktera by jim dala elektricky
> sok pokazde kdyz se odchyli od navodu. Ta by byla mozna jednodussi -
> nezahrnovala by mechaniku.
> 

Slaufek z auta na nejnizsim miste. Clovek to trochu natlakuje pumpickou a pak se
jen odpusti voda :)


> CL<
> > *   Nebo jejich kombinace - napriklad 2), 3) a pro velmi destive
> > oblasti navic 4)
> > ** u 3) a 4) je mozne pridat take meric mnozstvi protekle vody a
> > pouzivat ronju jako meric srazek v dane oblasti
> > 
> > Take by mohla jit voda v tubusu nejak vyuzit, napriklad k chlazeni
> > modulu, pestovani rybicek ...  =;-]
> > 
> > peknej caro-den
> > p0l0us



From jdb at lartmaker.nl  Sun Apr 30 16:31:22 2006
From: jdb at lartmaker.nl (J.D. Bakker)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 17:31:22 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Sprachen
In-Reply-To: <20060430130727.GC8711@kestrel>
References: <44549E25.1090103@freemail.hu>
	<20060430120053.GA28005@hansmi.ch>	<200604301455.59337.ladmanj@volny.cz>
	<20060430130727.GC8711@kestrel>
Message-ID: <a06230922c07a83d387cb@[130.161.115.44]>

>  > > Not being able to read Czech myself, I would really appreciate if we
>  > > could make this list English only. But that's not my decision.
>
>There's no rule you must not write Czech on this mailing list. The same
>way German is allowed too.

Then please fix

http://ronja.twibright.com/mlist.php

to indicate this. Right now it states "Primary language is English. 
Some people post Czech postings". I think it would be more truthful 
to have it the other way round.

>                             I don't think the Czech e-mails are creating
>a problem for the readers. They can be easily detected and discarded.

They are slowing development. As an example, I am working on a 
variable bitrate (up to 100Mbps) Ronja. I have a receiver, a way to 
connect to Fast Ethernet, error correction and detection working and 
am making progress on the transmitter and the receive PLL. I would 
very much like to join in the development discussions (like using a 
RISC, which I think is unnecessarily complex) but I can't since I 
don't understand Czech. I've seen others leave for the same reason.

When I was working on the LART, I actively encouraged my Dutch 
colleagues to discuss the design on the list in English, instead of 
in the hallways in Dutch. This helped a lot in getting external 
input, speeding up the development of the system.

Karel, you spend a lot of time and energy on keeping the Ronja design 
open, why not do the same for the development process ? You used to 
answer Czech e-mails to the list in English, that helped a lot (for 
me, at least).

Regards,

JDB.
[and no, English isn't my first language either, nor have I ever 
lived in an English-speaking country]
-- 
LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files.
http://www.lartmaker.nl/


From jdb at lartmaker.nl  Sun Apr 30 16:31:58 2006
From: jdb at lartmaker.nl (J.D. Bakker)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 17:31:58 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Sprachen
In-Reply-To: <200604301455.59337.ladmanj@volny.cz>
References: <44549E25.1090103@freemail.hu> <20060430120053.GA28005@hansmi.ch>
	<200604301455.59337.ladmanj@volny.cz>
Message-ID: <a06230923c07a84bebee4@[130.161.115.44]>

>  > Not being able to read Czech myself, I would really appreciate if we
>>  could make this list English only. But that's not my decision.
>
>Ronja project started in Czech republic

True.

>                                         and iirc most of the known
>instalations are in Czech republic.

Please look up 'self fulfilling prophecy'. This is like the 
restaurant owner asking 'why should I make my restaurant accessible 
to handicapped people ? They never come in here anyway'.

JDB
[working on designing a 100Mbps Ronja backbone for the Amsterdam 
wireless network]
-- 
Saint JDB, guardian of lost causes.


From shamanu8 at web.de  Sun Apr 30 16:50:09 2006
From: shamanu8 at web.de (shamanu8 at web.de)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 17:50:09 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Sprachen
In-Reply-To: <44549E25.1090103@freemail.hu>
References: <44549E25.1090103@freemail.hu>
Message-ID: <4454DCB1.5080202@web.de>

Das Projekt k?nnte im Deutschsprachigen Raum ja einmal etwas popul?rer 
gemacht werden.
Wenn zb die Zeitschrift Ct einen Bericht dar?ber ver?ffentlichen w?rde 
sollte dies zu einem Zuwachs an Interessenten und Bekanntheit f?hren.
Ich habe den Heise Verlag vor l?ngerer Zeit einmal auf das Projekt 
hingewiesen jedoch seitdem keine Reaktion darauf erhalten/gesehen.

Villeicht m?chte ja der eine oder andere hier auch ein Mail an den 
Verlag schicken, mit der Bitte eines ausf?hrlichen Berichtes ?ber die 
Ronja "bewegung".

Marcel

Martin wrote:

>Liebe deutschsprachige Mitstreiter... :)
>
>Jetzt, wo ich schon zum x-ten mal nur noch Bahnhof verstehe von dem, was 
>hier auf der Liste passiert, bin ich der Meinung, das alle, die unsere 
>Sprache reden k?nnen oder wollen, das auch tun sollten. Hier und ab jetzt.
>Denn wenn alle anderen ihre eigene, f?r den Rest der Welt 
>unverst?ndliche Sprache sprechen, dann warum nicht auch wir.
>Vielleicht sind wir garnicht mal so wenig :)
>
>Ich habe es versucht ein Bischen von den E-Mails zu ?bersetzen, ist aber 
>an mangelndem Babel-Fish gescheitert.
>
>Englisch ist zwar ein einfaches Mittel zur Kommunikation, aber ich 
>finde, der Umweg lohnt sich nicht, wenn es auch einfacher geht.
>Ach ja, und den Ami-Bengel der keinen blassen Schimmer von Ronja hat, 
>k?nnen wir so auch ausschalten. Der nerft mich schon lange.
>
>Das Aquarium hat mir auch sehr gefallen. :)
>
>Viel Spa? beim Basteln!
>
>Martin
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Ronja mailing list
>Ronja at lists.pointless.net
>http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>  
>


From quintusmurray at yahoo.com  Sun Apr 30 17:01:33 2006
From: quintusmurray at yahoo.com (Quintus Murray)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 09:01:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Ronja] Ronja Digest, Vol 36, Issue 35
In-Reply-To: <mailman.690.1146394294.22549.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
Message-ID: <20060430160133.83485.qmail@web53409.mail.yahoo.com>


so tell me how do I combine the ronja motherboard with that of a dissasembled wi-fi access point???? and I want to replace the 10Mbit components with 100Mbps and or 1Gbps components. so can you give me a list of the 10Mbps components so I can replace them and take them out of the ronja for faster speed????????

		
---------------------------------
New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20060430/b509275a/attachment.html 

From jdb at lartmaker.nl  Sun Apr 30 17:17:45 2006
From: jdb at lartmaker.nl (J.D. Bakker)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 18:17:45 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Programmable logic -- preferences ?
Message-ID: <a06230924c07a9183bcff@[130.161.115.44]>

Hi all,

As I've mentioned, I am working a higher-speed optical link. Most of 
the digital logic between the link and the front-end will be 
implemented in CPLDs.

Does anyone prefer Xilinx 9500-series CPLDs over Lattice/Vantis MACH4 
devices ? I have more experience with the MACH4 series, but the 
Xilinx parts may be easier to get. Or do y'all not care as long as 
the link works and the designs get published ? ;-)

Thanks,

JDB.
[both the Xilinx and Lattice parts are supported by free-as-in-beer 
downloadable programming software, and schematics for download cables 
are available too]
-- 
LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files.
http://www.lartmaker.nl/


From clock at twibright.com  Sun Apr 30 16:33:17 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 17:33:17 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Sprachen
In-Reply-To: <a06230923c07a84bebee4@[130.161.115.44]>
References: <44549E25.1090103@freemail.hu> <20060430120053.GA28005@hansmi.ch>
	<200604301455.59337.ladmanj@volny.cz>
	<a06230923c07a84bebee4@[130.161.115.44]>
Message-ID: <20060430153317.GA8433@kestrel>

On Sun, Apr 30, 2006 at 05:31:58PM +0200, J.D. Bakker wrote:
> >  > Not being able to read Czech myself, I would really appreciate if we
> >>  could make this list English only. But that's not my decision.
> >
> >Ronja project started in Czech republic
> 
> True.
> 
> >                                         and iirc most of the known
> >instalations are in Czech republic.
> 
> Please look up 'self fulfilling prophecy'. This is like the 
> restaurant owner asking 'why should I make my restaurant accessible 
> to handicapped people ? They never come in here anyway'.

Do you think Ronja is not spread in the western Europe and US because of
this?

CL<
> 
> JDB
> [working on designing a 100Mbps Ronja backbone for the Amsterdam 
> wireless network]
> -- 
> Saint JDB, guardian of lost causes.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From clock at twibright.com  Sun Apr 30 16:38:32 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 17:38:32 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Sprachen
In-Reply-To: <a06230922c07a83d387cb@[130.161.115.44]>
References: <44549E25.1090103@freemail.hu> <20060430120053.GA28005@hansmi.ch>
	<200604301455.59337.ladmanj@volny.cz>
	<20060430130727.GC8711@kestrel>
	<a06230922c07a83d387cb@[130.161.115.44]>
Message-ID: <20060430153832.GB8433@kestrel>

On Sun, Apr 30, 2006 at 05:31:22PM +0200, J.D. Bakker wrote:
> >  > > Not being able to read Czech myself, I would really appreciate if we
> >  > > could make this list English only. But that's not my decision.
> >
> >There's no rule you must not write Czech on this mailing list. The same
> >way German is allowed too.
> 
> Then please fix
> 
> http://ronja.twibright.com/mlist.php
> 
> to indicate this. Right now it states "Primary language is English. 
> Some people post Czech postings". I think it would be more truthful 
> to have it the other way round.

I meant with primary language the language that is suggested but now I
see it can be interpreted in a different way. Fixed.

> 
> >                             I don't think the Czech e-mails are creating
> >a problem for the readers. They can be easily detected and discarded.
> 
> They are slowing development. As an example, I am working on a 
> variable bitrate (up to 100Mbps) Ronja. I have a receiver, a way to 
> connect to Fast Ethernet, error correction and detection working and 
> am making progress on the transmitter and the receive PLL. I would 

I wonder if there will be anything reasonably working from this in the
future or if it will get into zombie state like Jakub Ladman's Spider.

> very much like to join in the development discussions (like using a 
> RISC, which I think is unnecessarily complex) but I can't since I 
> don't understand Czech. I've seen others leave for the same reason.

Do you think the Czech speakers are able to help you in this regard?

> 
> When I was working on the LART, I actively encouraged my Dutch 
> colleagues to discuss the design on the list in English, instead of 
> in the hallways in Dutch. This helped a lot in getting external 
> input, speeding up the development of the system.
> 
> Karel, you spend a lot of time and energy on keeping the Ronja design 
> open, why not do the same for the development process ? You used to 
> answer Czech e-mails to the list in English, that helped a lot (for 
> me, at least).

I can start doing it again - but the Czech people will be probably
more pissed :) But I think they should start speaking English.

CL<
> 
> Regards,
> 
> JDB.
> [and no, English isn't my first language either, nor have I ever 
> lived in an English-speaking country]
> -- 
> LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files.
> http://www.lartmaker.nl/
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From jdb at lartmaker.nl  Sun Apr 30 17:32:58 2006
From: jdb at lartmaker.nl (J.D. Bakker)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 18:32:58 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Sprachen
In-Reply-To: <20060430153317.GA8433@kestrel>
References: <44549E25.1090103@freemail.hu>
	<20060430120053.GA28005@hansmi.ch>	<200604301455.59337.ladmanj@volny.cz>
	<a06230923c07a84bebee4@[130.161.115.44]>
	<20060430153317.GA8433@kestrel>
Message-ID: <a06230926c07a9656de46@[130.161.115.44]>

Clock wrote:
>On Sun, Apr 30, 2006 at 05:31:58PM +0200, J.D. Bakker wrote:
>  > >                                         and iirc most of the known
>>  >instalations are in Czech republic.
>>
>>  Please look up 'self fulfilling prophecy'. This is like the
>>  restaurant owner asking 'why should I make my restaurant accessible
>>  to handicapped people ? They never come in here anyway'.
>
>Do you think Ronja is not spread in the western Europe and US because of
>this?

Honestly ? I think it's an important factor. I've heard the argument 
used here. Remember that people use the mailing list archives as an 
important part of the documentation.

JDB.
-- 
It was then I realized how dire my medical situation was.  Here I was,
a network admin, unable to leave, and here was someone with a broken
network.  And they didn't ask me to fix it.  They didn't even try to
casually pry a hint out of me.  -- Ryan Tucker , in the Monastery


From clock at twibright.com  Sun Apr 30 16:42:55 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 17:42:55 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Ronja Digest, Vol 36, Issue 35
In-Reply-To: <20060430160133.83485.qmail@web53409.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.690.1146394294.22549.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
	<20060430160133.83485.qmail@web53409.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20060430154255.GD8433@kestrel>

On Sun, Apr 30, 2006 at 09:01:33AM -0700, Quintus Murray wrote:
> 
> so tell me how do I combine the ronja motherboard with that of a
> dissasembled wi-fi access point???? and I want to replace the 10Mbit
> components with 100Mbps and or 1Gbps components. so can you give me a
> list of the 10Mbps components so I can replace them and take them out
> of the ronja for faster speed????????

It's not only the components that are 10Mbps, but also their
combination. For example the resistors or capacitors don't usually have
any significant inherent frequency limitation. The limitation of
transistors is given more the way that they are connected than their
internal properties.

I am not planning to make a Ronja WiFi hybrid at this time so I will
not work on this and then tell you how to do it after I figure it out.
If you want to experiment this way you have to figure out yourself
from documentation.

But I discourage you from this - WiFi is crap.

CL<

> 
> 		
> ---------------------------------
> New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big.
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja



From clock at twibright.com  Sun Apr 30 16:46:06 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 17:46:06 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Programmable logic -- preferences ?
In-Reply-To: <a06230924c07a9183bcff@[130.161.115.44]>
References: <a06230924c07a9183bcff@[130.161.115.44]>
Message-ID: <20060430154606.GE8433@kestrel>

On Sun, Apr 30, 2006 at 06:17:45PM +0200, J.D. Bakker wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> As I've mentioned, I am working a higher-speed optical link. Most of 
> the digital logic between the link and the front-end will be 
> implemented in CPLDs.
> 
> Does anyone prefer Xilinx 9500-series CPLDs over Lattice/Vantis MACH4 
> devices ? I have more experience with the MACH4 series, but the 
> Xilinx parts may be easier to get. Or do y'all not care as long as 
> the link works and the designs get published ? ;-)

Is Xilinx easier to get also for end users? Does MACH4 suck less than
Xilinx from the secrecy point of view?

> 
> Thanks,
> 
> JDB.
> [both the Xilinx and Lattice parts are supported by free-as-in-beer 
> downloadable programming software, and schematics for download cables 
> are available too]

Do these Lattice programs run on some reasonable platform, too? I
managed to install the Xilinx multi-gigabyte bloatware on Linux (I
didn't test whether it does anything useful, though).

If you do it in Lattice will it be then difficult or easy to compile it
for Xilinx and change the board to exchange the chip?

CL<
> -- 
> LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files.
> http://www.lartmaker.nl/
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From jdb at lartmaker.nl  Sun Apr 30 17:41:44 2006
From: jdb at lartmaker.nl (J.D. Bakker)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 18:41:44 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] nahrada vysilaci led luxeonem?
In-Reply-To: <20060330152218.GA17176@kestrel.barix.local>
References: <140.1619-15850-1966193405-1143551774@seznam.cz>
	<442B8542.2050805@freemail.hu> <442B8D8F.7020906@kbx.cz>
	<442BAE68.9060908@freemail.hu>	<a06230929c0517d496e15@[130.161.115.44]>
	<20060330152218.GA17176@kestrel.barix.local>
Message-ID: <a06230925c07a94d1831e@[130.161.115.44]>

A month ago, Karel 'Clock' wrote:
>On Thu, Mar 30, 2006 at 01:39:39PM +0100, J.D. Bakker wrote:
>  > Why is everyone so intent on using lasers ? The LEDs I've tried can
>>  be driven fast enough without much problems, as long as you use a
>
>Which LEDs did you try?

Only Noname Chinese LEDs (read: whatever I had lying around) so far. 
I have a few Luxeon/Telux devices on order so I can publish results 
that other people may be able to reproduce ;-)

>  > switched current source and not a switched voltage source. Also, the
>
>How did you came to conclusion that switched current source is better
>than a switched voltage source?

At a few tens to hundreds of mA, one of the main mechanisms 
determining a LED's speed is its capacitance. Charging it with a 
(current-limited) voltage source leads to inverse exponential 
charging time, using a current source charges in linear time (ie, 
faster). This is one of the reasons why some families of fast 
backplane and line driver chips use current source outputs.

Also, LED output is determined by current not voltage. Having a slow 
ramp-up hurts you twice that way.

>  > I'll see if I can generate a demo schemo for the LED/laser driver. In
>>  the meantime, if anyone has suggestions on how to generate a 66MHz
>>  signal from a 132MHz signal where the rising/falling edges of the
>>  66MHz signal coincide with the rising edges of the 132MHz signal
>>  *over a full outdoors temperature range*, I'd much appreciate it.
>>
>>  My options so far:
>>  - use a PLL to align the edges (complex, may introduce phase noise)
>>  - build an analog DLL (hard to keep working over the full temp range)
>
>What is a DLL?

A Delay Locked Loop. The time-domain equivalent of a Phase Locked Loop (PLL).

>  > - use an FPGA with integrated DLL (hard to get, hard to solder, expensive)
>>  - use a specialized DLL chip (the project dies when the chip goes out
>  > of production).

Regards,

JDB.
-- 
"... I've seen Sun monitors on fire off the side of the multimedia lab.
  I've seen NTU lights glitter in the dark near the Mail Gate.
  All these things will be lost in time, like the root partition last week.
  Time... to die...". - Peter Gutmann in the scary devil monastery


From clock at twibright.com  Sun Apr 30 16:51:11 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 17:51:11 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Xilinx vs. Lattice
Message-ID: <20060430155111.GA8849@kestrel>

J. D. Bakker: and of course, what do you find more elegant - Xilinx or
Lattice?

CL<


From clock at twibright.com  Sun Apr 30 16:54:12 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 17:54:12 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Sprachen
In-Reply-To: <a06230926c07a9656de46@[130.161.115.44]>
References: <44549E25.1090103@freemail.hu> <20060430120053.GA28005@hansmi.ch>
	<200604301455.59337.ladmanj@volny.cz>
	<a06230923c07a84bebee4@[130.161.115.44]>
	<20060430153317.GA8433@kestrel>
	<a06230926c07a9656de46@[130.161.115.44]>
Message-ID: <20060430155412.GB8849@kestrel>

On Sun, Apr 30, 2006 at 06:32:58PM +0200, J.D. Bakker wrote:
> Clock wrote:
> >On Sun, Apr 30, 2006 at 05:31:58PM +0200, J.D. Bakker wrote:
> >  > >                                         and iirc most of the known
> >>  >instalations are in Czech republic.
> >>
> >>  Please look up 'self fulfilling prophecy'. This is like the
> >>  restaurant owner asking 'why should I make my restaurant accessible
> >>  to handicapped people ? They never come in here anyway'.
> >
> >Do you think Ronja is not spread in the western Europe and US because of
> >this?
> 
> Honestly ? I think it's an important factor. I've heard the argument 
> used here. Remember that people use the mailing list archives as an 
> important part of the documentation.

They shouldn't - the missing pieces should be pointed out and added into
the guide. Scanning these huge archives consumes substantial amount of
times and can be source of confusion. Especially when people present their
opinions as facts and the visitor cannot then distinguish what's true
and what not.

But people fear of sending bugreports, especially for large amounts of
subtle bugs, because armies of morons are systematically discouraging
them from this on other projects (like Gentoo or Linux kernel ;-) ).

CL<
> 
> JDB.
> -- 
> It was then I realized how dire my medical situation was.  Here I was,
> a network admin, unable to leave, and here was someone with a broken
> network.  And they didn't ask me to fix it.  They didn't even try to
> casually pry a hint out of me.  -- Ryan Tucker , in the Monastery
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From jdb at lartmaker.nl  Sun Apr 30 17:55:29 2006
From: jdb at lartmaker.nl (J.D. Bakker)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 18:55:29 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Sprachen
In-Reply-To: <20060430153832.GB8433@kestrel>
References: <44549E25.1090103@freemail.hu>
	<20060430120053.GA28005@hansmi.ch>	<200604301455.59337.ladmanj@volny.cz>
	<20060430130727.GC8711@kestrel>	<a06230922c07a83d387cb@[130.161.115.44]>
	<20060430153832.GB8433@kestrel>
Message-ID: <a06230927c07a99859d7b@[130.161.115.44]>

>On Sun, Apr 30, 2006 at 05:31:22PM +0200, J.D. Bakker wrote:
>  >                                    As an example, I am working on a
>  > variable bitrate (up to 100Mbps) Ronja. I have a receiver, a way to
>>  connect to Fast Ethernet, error correction and detection working and
>>  am making progress on the transmitter and the receive PLL. I would
>
>I wonder if there will be anything reasonably working from this in the
>future or if it will get into zombie state like Jakub Ladman's Spider.

Sure. As always, there are never any guarantees until working designs 
are published. I do have the 'advantage' of people in my home town 
knowing that I'm working on this & regularly asking me about 
progress. This has worked very well for the LART ;-)

>  > very much like to join in the development discussions (like using a
>>  RISC, which I think is unnecessarily complex) but I can't since I
>>  don't understand Czech. I've seen others leave for the same reason.
>
>Do you think the Czech speakers are able to help you in this regard?

As I've found in the past, even listening to people discussing a 
similar design can help. When working on the LART, I was on the 
mailing list of an Australian design group doing similar things. This 
was very inspiring; other people have different brains & may think of 
things you've missed. Of course this works in both directions.

I'm definitely not asking people 'please debug my CPLD' ;-)

>  > Karel, you spend a lot of time and energy on keeping the Ronja design
>>  open, why not do the same for the development process ? You used to
>>  answer Czech e-mails to the list in English, that helped a lot (for
>>  me, at least).
>
>I can start doing it again - but the Czech people will be probably
>more pissed :)

I can't speak for anyone else, but *I* would be very happy if you did.

Regards,

JDB
-- 
Your eyes are weary from staring at the CRT. You feel sleepy. Notice 
how restful it is to watch the cursor blink. Close your eyes. The 
opinions stated above are yours. You cannot imagine why you ever felt 
otherwise.


From jdb at lartmaker.nl  Sun Apr 30 18:05:00 2006
From: jdb at lartmaker.nl (J.D. Bakker)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 19:05:00 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Programmable logic -- preferences ?
In-Reply-To: <20060430154606.GE8433@kestrel>
References: <a06230924c07a9183bcff@[130.161.115.44]>
	<20060430154606.GE8433@kestrel>
Message-ID: <a06230928c07a9cb95db1@[130.161.115.44]>

>On Sun, Apr 30, 2006 at 06:17:45PM +0200, J.D. Bakker wrote:
>  > Does anyone prefer Xilinx 9500-series CPLDs over Lattice/Vantis MACH4
>>  devices ? I have more experience with the MACH4 series, but the
>>  Xilinx parts may be easier to get. Or do y'all not care as long as
>>  the link works and the designs get published ? ;-)
>
>Is Xilinx easier to get also for end users?

That was the question I was asking the list. I know that Digi-Key 
(http://www.digikey.com/) have them and are willing to ship to Europe 
for not too much money.

>  Does MACH4 suck less than
>Xilinx from the secrecy point of view?

About the same, as far as I know.

>  > [both the Xilinx and Lattice parts are supported by free-as-in-beer
>>  downloadable programming software, and schematics for download cables
>>  are available too]
>
>Do these Lattice programs run on some reasonable platform, too? I
>managed to install the Xilinx multi-gigabyte bloatware on Linux (I
>didn't test whether it does anything useful, though).

Dunno, I have a Win98 machine here which I use exclusively for the 
Lattice tools. One of these days I need to find the time to try it on 
Wine.

>If you do it in Lattice will it be then difficult or easy to compile it
>for Xilinx and change the board to exchange the chip?

Easy. The design is/will be in Abel (a plain text HDL), which is 
supported by all manufacturer's tools that I know about. The only 
Lattice-specific bits are things like signal-to-pin routing, 
something that would need to be changed anyway when going to a 
different chip manufacturer.

JDB.
[who has once made the mistake of designing a CPLD with the vendor's 
schematic tools. Never again.]
-- 
"Windows is the one true OS.  MS invented the GUI.  MS invented the 32
bit OS.  MS is open and standard.  MS loves you.  We have always been
at war with Oceania." -- Tracy Reed


From ronja at hansmi.ch  Sun Apr 30 18:09:53 2006
From: ronja at hansmi.ch (Michael Hanselmann)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 19:09:53 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Programmable logic -- preferences ?
In-Reply-To: <a06230928c07a9cb95db1@[130.161.115.44]>
References: <a06230924c07a9183bcff@[130.161.115.44]>
	<20060430154606.GE8433@kestrel>
	<a06230928c07a9cb95db1@[130.161.115.44]>
Message-ID: <20060430170953.GA17038@hansmi.ch>

Hello J.

On Sun, Apr 30, 2006 at 07:05:00PM +0200, J.D. Bakker wrote:
> >Do these Lattice programs run on some reasonable platform, too? I
> >managed to install the Xilinx multi-gigabyte bloatware on Linux (I
> >didn't test whether it does anything useful, though).

> Dunno, I have a Win98 machine here which I use exclusively for the 
> Lattice tools. One of these days I need to find the time to try it on 
> Wine.

That means they're x86 only, right? No, thanks. I think that such a
project should not depend on any closed software. Are there no chips
with software whose source code is available?

Greets,
Michael

(For me, a program has to run on at least Linux/PowerPC and Linux/Sparc
or it's not worth a thing.)

-- 
Gentoo Linux developer, http://hansmi.ch/, http://forkbomb.ch/
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 191 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20060430/2274734f/attachment.bin 

From jdb at lartmaker.nl  Sun Apr 30 18:10:20 2006
From: jdb at lartmaker.nl (J.D. Bakker)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 19:10:20 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Xilinx vs. Lattice
In-Reply-To: <20060430155111.GA8849@kestrel>
References: <20060430155111.GA8849@kestrel>
Message-ID: <a06230929c07a9eebe16b@[130.161.115.44]>

>J. D. Bakker: and of course, what do you find more elegant - Xilinx or
>Lattice?

Now *that* is a hard one.

I would have to say the Xilinx CoolRunner family, originally by 
Philips. Both fast and low power, and with plenty of routeability. 
Sadly, only available in fine pitch TQFP packages (or BGA).

The Xilinx XC9500 series and the Lattice M4A3 chips are simple, 
plain, and still available in PLCC.

JDB.
-- 
Life. In order of importance: food, shelter and a pair of very loud speakers.


From jdb at lartmaker.nl  Sun Apr 30 18:19:30 2006
From: jdb at lartmaker.nl (J.D. Bakker)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 19:19:30 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] State of Aisha ?
Message-ID: <a0623092bc07aa0884226@[130.161.115.44]>

Hi,

What's the state of Ronja Aisha ? One of the first things I'd like to 
do with my current-mode driver is to try it on a 1W Luxeon (later 3W, 
money allowing), since a 10Mbps Luxeon driver would be useful for 
people Right Now (and not only when all other modules are finished, 
like with the 100Mb plans).

If it's (almost) finished then I won't have to bother with my driver, 
if it isn't then it would be useful to know what the major 
outstanding problems are/were.

Thanks

JDB.
-- 
The proper way to cook tofu is as follows:
1) Take package of tofu
2) Place tofu in garbage
3) Cook steak               --Shalon Wood


From jdb at lartmaker.nl  Sun Apr 30 18:40:55 2006
From: jdb at lartmaker.nl (J.D. Bakker)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 19:40:55 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Programmable logic -- preferences ?
In-Reply-To: <20060430170953.GA17038@hansmi.ch>
References: <a06230924c07a9183bcff@[130.161.115.44]>
	<20060430154606.GE8433@kestrel>	<a06230928c07a9cb95db1@[130.161.115.44]>
	<20060430170953.GA17038@hansmi.ch>
Message-ID: <a0623092cc07aa328dfc2@[130.161.115.44]>

Michael wrote:
>On Sun, Apr 30, 2006 at 07:05:00PM +0200, J.D. Bakker wrote:
>>  >Do these Lattice programs run on some reasonable platform, too? I
>>  >managed to install the Xilinx multi-gigabyte bloatware on Linux (I
>>  >didn't test whether it does anything useful, though).
>
>>  Dunno, I have a Win98 machine here which I use exclusively for the
>>  Lattice tools. One of these days I need to find the time to try it on
>>  Wine.
>
>That means they're x86 only, right?

That is true for all programmable logic compilers. It used to be 
Windows only (or high-end proprietary UNIX); in the past few years 
some vendors have released Linux/x86 ports.

>                                     No, thanks. I think that such a
>project should not depend on any closed software.

I think it will be very hard to design a 100Mb system without the use 
of programmable logic. On the other hand, if/when the system is 
finished I'm willing to help you (or others) if you want to try to 
convert it to discrete logic.

>                                                   Are there no chips
>with software whose source code is available?

No, and that is very likely never going to happen either (this has 
been discussed a lot on Linux lists).

I applaud your principles. For myself, I have decided that life is 
easier with one extra PC (which I bought for 40 Euro including the 
Windows license) dedicated to these tools.

Regards,

JDB
[writing this on a PowerBook. No CPLD/FPGA tools for me...]
-- 
It was then I realized how dire my medical situation was.  Here I was,
a network admin, unable to leave, and here was someone with a broken
network.  And they didn't ask me to fix it.  They didn't even try to
casually pry a hint out of me.  -- Ryan Tucker , in the Monastery


From krepa at seznam.cz  Sun Apr 30 18:48:32 2006
From: krepa at seznam.cz (Pavel Krejci)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 19:48:32 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Ronja Digest, Vol 36, Issue 35
In-Reply-To: <20060430154255.GD8433@kestrel>
References: <mailman.690.1146394294.22549.ronja@lists.pointless.net>	<20060430160133.83485.qmail@web53409.mail.yahoo.com>
	<20060430154255.GD8433@kestrel>
Message-ID: <4454F870.6090307@seznam.cz>


> 
> But I discourage you from this - WiFi is crap.
> 
Crap but (un)fortunately saves your ass when there is dense fog.
Which happens in Prague (Modrany) very very often.
I thought that if we reduce distance to 300~400m it will help.
Yes it will but what I saw last week in the morning... actually what I 
did not see :o) 50m range would be difficult to reach using any optical 
link...


PK.


From krepa at seznam.cz  Sun Apr 30 18:49:10 2006
From: krepa at seznam.cz (Pavel Krejci)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 19:49:10 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Programmable logic -- preferences ?
In-Reply-To: <20060430154606.GE8433@kestrel>
References: <a06230924c07a9183bcff@[130.161.115.44]>
	<20060430154606.GE8433@kestrel>
Message-ID: <4454F896.7050604@seznam.cz>

Xilinx in CZ is very easy to get.

PK

Karel Kulhavy napsal(a):
> On Sun, Apr 30, 2006 at 06:17:45PM +0200, J.D. Bakker wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> As I've mentioned, I am working a higher-speed optical link. Most of 
>> the digital logic between the link and the front-end will be 
>> implemented in CPLDs.
>>
>> Does anyone prefer Xilinx 9500-series CPLDs over Lattice/Vantis MACH4 
>> devices ? I have more experience with the MACH4 series, but the 
>> Xilinx parts may be easier to get. Or do y'all not care as long as 
>> the link works and the designs get published ? ;-)
> 
> Is Xilinx easier to get also for end users? Does MACH4 suck less than
> Xilinx from the secrecy point of view?
> 
>> Thanks,
>>
>> JDB.
>> [both the Xilinx and Lattice parts are supported by free-as-in-beer 
>> downloadable programming software, and schematics for download cables 
>> are available too]
> 
> Do these Lattice programs run on some reasonable platform, too? I
> managed to install the Xilinx multi-gigabyte bloatware on Linux (I
> didn't test whether it does anything useful, though).
> 
> If you do it in Lattice will it be then difficult or easy to compile it
> for Xilinx and change the board to exchange the chip?
> 
> CL<
>> -- 
>> LART. 250 MIPS under one Watt. Free hardware design files.
>> http://www.lartmaker.nl/
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ronja mailing list
>> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 



From clock at twibright.com  Sun Apr 30 18:02:43 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 19:02:43 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] nahrada vysilaci led luxeonem?
In-Reply-To: <a06230925c07a94d1831e@[130.161.115.44]>
References: <140.1619-15850-1966193405-1143551774@seznam.cz>
	<442B8542.2050805@freemail.hu> <442B8D8F.7020906@kbx.cz>
	<442BAE68.9060908@freemail.hu>
	<a06230929c0517d496e15@[130.161.115.44]>
	<20060330152218.GA17176@kestrel.barix.local>
	<a06230925c07a94d1831e@[130.161.115.44]>
Message-ID: <20060430170243.GA9261@kestrel>

On Sun, Apr 30, 2006 at 06:41:44PM +0200, J.D. Bakker wrote:
> A month ago, Karel 'Clock' wrote:
> >On Thu, Mar 30, 2006 at 01:39:39PM +0100, J.D. Bakker wrote:
> >  > Why is everyone so intent on using lasers ? The LEDs I've tried can
> >>  be driven fast enough without much problems, as long as you use a
> >
> >Which LEDs did you try?
> 
> Only Noname Chinese LEDs (read: whatever I had lying around) so far. 
> I have a few Luxeon/Telux devices on order so I can publish results 
> that other people may be able to reproduce ;-)

How did you drive it? What was the trick? Supraconductive cryonic tesla
coil and Kerr cells?

> 
> >  > switched current source and not a switched voltage source. Also, the
> >
> >How did you came to conclusion that switched current source is better
> >than a switched voltage source?
> 
> At a few tens to hundreds of mA, one of the main mechanisms 
> determining a LED's speed is its capacitance. Charging it with a 
> (current-limited) voltage source leads to inverse exponential 
> charging time, using a current source charges in linear time (ie, 
> faster). This is one of the reasons why some families of fast 
> backplane and line driver chips use current source outputs.

But how do you make a voltage limited current source of brutal current?

> 
> Also, LED output is determined by current not voltage. Having a slow 
> ramp-up hurts you twice that way.

LED output is determined by current *through the junction*, not through
the LED's wires. That's because there's a capacitor between the ideal
LED inside and the output terminals. The current through the junction
is determined by the voltage on the junction (which is the same voltage
as the voltage on the internal capacitor), so the LED is driven by
voltage. But this is exponential.

Show how you wired your circuit that will be easier for me to understand
(and copy, of course ;-) ).

Actually one could drive the led with normal current source that is
turned on and off, plus at each leading edge momentarily connect the LED
to say +12V for couple of nanoseconds to immediately charge it to the
working voltage, and on trailing edge connect it the same way to -10V.
In the meantime the current source would provide the steady state
current. Then the amount of nanoseconds is tuned to get the LED into the
state when it's neither overcharged nor undercharged on the edge.

The guys in Australia will fall on their face with happiness when they
are told that they audio rig can be used for 100Mbps too :) Lasers
are complicated to drive, LEDs are robust, then don't mind extra ampere
here and there, and they don't make annoying coherent light, plus you
get much more milliwats per buck, plus you don't need to care about
pricking out a hole into your eye :)

I just wonder why I didn't get this idea earlier. My stupidity is
immense :)

CL<


From clock at twibright.com  Sun Apr 30 18:05:56 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 19:05:56 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Programmable logic -- preferences ?
In-Reply-To: <20060430170953.GA17038@hansmi.ch>
References: <a06230924c07a9183bcff@[130.161.115.44]>
	<20060430154606.GE8433@kestrel>
	<a06230928c07a9cb95db1@[130.161.115.44]>
	<20060430170953.GA17038@hansmi.ch>
Message-ID: <20060430170556.GB9261@kestrel>

On Sun, Apr 30, 2006 at 07:09:53PM +0200, Michael Hanselmann wrote:
> Hello J.
> 
> On Sun, Apr 30, 2006 at 07:05:00PM +0200, J.D. Bakker wrote:
> > >Do these Lattice programs run on some reasonable platform, too? I
> > >managed to install the Xilinx multi-gigabyte bloatware on Linux (I
> > >didn't test whether it does anything useful, though).
> 
> > Dunno, I have a Win98 machine here which I use exclusively for the 
> > Lattice tools. One of these days I need to find the time to try it on 
> > Wine.
> 
> That means they're x86 only, right? No, thanks. I think that such a
> project should not depend on any closed software. Are there no chips
> with software whose source code is available?

No they are none. But does the Windoze98 tool run without graphics as
text mode utility as well? Or JDB could you test it if it works on Wine?
If it sucks on Wine I would ask for Xilinx, if not, Lattice (because you
have experience and it's no point in wasting your devel time).

CL<


From clock at twibright.com  Sun Apr 30 18:08:32 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 19:08:32 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] State of Aisha ?
In-Reply-To: <a0623092bc07aa0884226@[130.161.115.44]>
References: <a0623092bc07aa0884226@[130.161.115.44]>
Message-ID: <20060430170832.GC9261@kestrel>

On Sun, Apr 30, 2006 at 07:19:30PM +0200, J.D. Bakker wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> What's the state of Ronja Aisha ? One of the first things I'd like to 

It's not being worked on currently.

> do with my current-mode driver is to try it on a 1W Luxeon (later 3W, 
> money allowing), since a 10Mbps Luxeon driver would be useful for 
> people Right Now (and not only when all other modules are finished, 
> like with the 100Mb plans).
> 
> If it's (almost) finished then I won't have to bother with my driver, 
> if it isn't then it would be useful to know what the major 
> outstanding problems are/were.

Virtually nothing done.

CL<
> 
> Thanks
> 
> JDB.
> -- 
> The proper way to cook tofu is as follows:
> 1) Take package of tofu
> 2) Place tofu in garbage
> 3) Cook steak               --Shalon Wood
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From clock at twibright.com  Sun Apr 30 18:25:05 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 19:25:05 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Programmable logic -- preferences ?
In-Reply-To: <a0623092cc07aa328dfc2@[130.161.115.44]>
References: <a06230924c07a9183bcff@[130.161.115.44]>
	<20060430154606.GE8433@kestrel>
	<a06230928c07a9cb95db1@[130.161.115.44]>
	<20060430170953.GA17038@hansmi.ch>
	<a0623092cc07aa328dfc2@[130.161.115.44]>
Message-ID: <20060430172505.GA9910@kestrel>

On Sun, Apr 30, 2006 at 07:40:55PM +0200, J.D. Bakker wrote:
> Michael wrote:
> >On Sun, Apr 30, 2006 at 07:05:00PM +0200, J.D. Bakker wrote:
> >>  >Do these Lattice programs run on some reasonable platform, too? I
> >>  >managed to install the Xilinx multi-gigabyte bloatware on Linux (I
> >>  >didn't test whether it does anything useful, though).
> >
> >>  Dunno, I have a Win98 machine here which I use exclusively for the
> >>  Lattice tools. One of these days I need to find the time to try it on
> >>  Wine.
> >
> >That means they're x86 only, right?
> 
> That is true for all programmable logic compilers. It used to be 
> Windows only (or high-end proprietary UNIX); in the past few years 
> some vendors have released Linux/x86 ports.

Does Lattice have Linux/x86 port?

BTW can you go to Ronja IRC?

CL<


From jdb at lartmaker.nl  Sun Apr 30 19:32:07 2006
From: jdb at lartmaker.nl (J.D. Bakker)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 20:32:07 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Programmable logic -- preferences ?
In-Reply-To: <20060430172505.GA9910@kestrel>
References: <a06230924c07a9183bcff@[130.161.115.44]>
	<20060430154606.GE8433@kestrel>	<a06230928c07a9cb95db1@[130.161.115.44]>
	<20060430170953.GA17038@hansmi.ch>
	<a0623092cc07aa328dfc2@[130.161.115.44]>
	<20060430172505.GA9910@kestrel>
Message-ID: <a0623092dc07ab2a18020@[130.161.115.44]>

>On Sun, Apr 30, 2006 at 07:40:55PM +0200, J.D. Bakker wrote:
>>  Michael wrote:
>>  >On Sun, Apr 30, 2006 at 07:05:00PM +0200, J.D. Bakker wrote:
>>  >>  >Do these Lattice programs run on some reasonable platform, too? I
>>  >>  >managed to install the Xilinx multi-gigabyte bloatware on Linux (I
>>  >>  >didn't test whether it does anything useful, though).
>>  >
>>  >>  Dunno, I have a Win98 machine here which I use exclusively for the
>>  >>  Lattice tools. One of these days I need to find the time to try it on
>>  >>  Wine.
>>  >
>>  >That means they're x86 only, right?
>>
>>  That is true for all programmable logic compilers. It used to be
>>  Windows only (or high-end proprietary UNIX); in the past few years
>>  some vendors have released Linux/x86 ports.
>
>Does Lattice have Linux/x86 port?

Not as far as I can see.

I think I'll go with the Xilinx chips/tools; I'll need to check them 
out for work anyway.

>BTW can you go to Ronja IRC?

Will do, after dinner.

JDB
[after dinner is when I'll do the schematics for the current mode driver, too]
-- 
Jan-Derk Bakker, jdb at lartmaker.nl

The lazy man's proverb:
     'There's no business like slow business !'


From quintusmurray at yahoo.com  Sun Apr 30 20:08:32 2006
From: quintusmurray at yahoo.com (Quintus Murray)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 12:08:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Ronja] Ronja Digest, Vol 36, Issue 37
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4.1146415626.24177.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
Message-ID: <20060430190832.81364.qmail@web53405.mail.yahoo.com>


maybe if I connect the risistors and capacitors through solar cells or modulated sunlight useing fiber optic cables that support 1Gbps speed I can problbly make a 1Gbps version of the ronja instead of the 100Mbps one. plus I know wi-fi sucks so will it be possibleto connect the ronjas to an ethernet switch/router to share the ronja's internet speed over ethernet instead of wi-fi so an AP isn't needed???

		
---------------------------------
New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20060430/8bd1f04b/attachment.html 

From quintusmurray at yahoo.com  Sun Apr 30 21:22:44 2006
From: quintusmurray at yahoo.com (Quintus Murray)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 13:22:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Ronja] Ronja Digest, Vol 36, Issue 38
In-Reply-To: <mailman.10.1146420082.24177.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
Message-ID: <20060430202244.7163.qmail@web53405.mail.yahoo.com>

since the ronja source code is open and I found the source code of an ethernet switch/VPN router. By combining the source code of the ethernet switch/VPN router with that of the ronja would the ronja be able to be used as an ethernet switchor VPN router????

		
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2?/min or less.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20060430/3aaec7dd/attachment.html 

From jdb at lartmaker.nl  Sun Apr 30 21:29:45 2006
From: jdb at lartmaker.nl (J.D. Bakker)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 22:29:45 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] nahrada vysilaci led luxeonem?
In-Reply-To: <20060430170243.GA9261@kestrel>
References: <140.1619-15850-1966193405-1143551774@seznam.cz>
	<442B8542.2050805@freemail.hu> <442B8D8F.7020906@kbx.cz>
	<442BAE68.9060908@freemail.hu>	<a06230929c0517d496e15@[130.161.115.44]>
	<20060330152218.GA17176@kestrel.barix.local>
	<a06230925c07a94d1831e@[130.161.115.44]>
	<20060430170243.GA9261@kestrel>
Message-ID: <a0623092ec07ac2dd4e0b@[130.161.115.44]>

>On Sun, Apr 30, 2006 at 06:41:44PM +0200, J.D. Bakker wrote:
>>  A month ago, Karel 'Clock' wrote:
>>  >On Thu, Mar 30, 2006 at 01:39:39PM +0100, J.D. Bakker wrote:
>>  >  > Why is everyone so intent on using lasers ? The LEDs I've tried can
>>  >>  be driven fast enough without much problems, as long as you use a
>>  >
>>  >Which LEDs did you try?
>>
>>  Only Noname Chinese LEDs (read: whatever I had lying around) so far.
>>  I have a few Luxeon/Telux devices on order so I can publish results
>>  that other people may be able to reproduce ;-)
>
>How did you drive it? What was the trick? Supraconductive cryonic tesla
>coil and Kerr cells?

Nah. The only semi-critical component is an N-MOS FET.

>  > >How did you came to conclusion that switched current source is better
>>  >than a switched voltage source?
>>
>>  At a few tens to hundreds of mA, one of the main mechanisms
>>  determining a LED's speed is its capacitance. Charging it with a
>>  (current-limited) voltage source leads to inverse exponential
>>  charging time, using a current source charges in linear time (ie,
>>  faster). This is one of the reasons why some families of fast
>>  backplane and line driver chips use current source outputs.
>
>But how do you make a voltage limited current source of brutal current?

What do you mean by brutal current ?

>  > Also, LED output is determined by current not voltage. Having a slow
>>  ramp-up hurts you twice that way.
>
>LED output is determined by current *through the junction*, not through
>the LED's wires.

<snip completely accurate description>

Yup, that's what I meant above.

>Show how you wired your circuit that will be easier for me to understand
>(and copy, of course ;-) ).

Rough sketch:

http://www.lartmaker.nl/cm-leddriver.png

 From top to bottom:

- 12V is just the supply voltage symbol I had available. Not critical.
- The transistor, resistors and diodes form a standard current 
source. Not critical.
- The inductor is the first 'interesting' bit. It has the same 
function that a decoupling capacitor has on a normal power supply. 
Its value needs to be >> the lead inductance of the LED. I just use a 
coil of wire, like in the Ronja RX.
- The N-MOS FET bypasses the LED when it should be off.

About the FET:
* It needs to be as close to the LED as possible. For my experiments, 
I soldered a SOT-23 FET (an FDV301N) to the bottom of the LED I was 
using.
* It needs to have a low threshold voltage
* It needs to have low gate charge. This is (much) more important 
than low Rds(on). Keep in mind that, for a given MOS process, gate 
charge is inversely proportional to Rds(on).
* It needs to as close to its driver as possible. In my tests I used 
a 3cm strip of flat cable between driver and FET, results show that 
that is MUCH too long
* It needs a strong driver. Think 74AC245 with all outputs in parallel.

In my tests I was seeing very nice fall times, but slower rise times. 
I believe this can be fixed by either using stronger drivers, a 
simple RC pulse shaper or a precharge voltage for the LED. I will try 
all three techniques once my parts are in & report back here.

An alternative to the FET may be a fast logic driver (like 74AC245) 
with a fast Schottky diode in series with its output, so it will pull 
the LED down but not up. The problem with that approach is that the 
protection diodes in the 'AC245 will start conducting on the 
inductive upswing, slowing the rising edge. I'm having a hard time 
sourcing 74ACxx parts here, so that experiment will have to wait.

>I just wonder why I didn't get this idea earlier. My stupidity is
>immense :)

We are all trained/used to working with stiff voltage sources and 
decoupling caps, and we hardly ever stop to think about its dual, the 
current source / inductor. I designed a variation of this circuit for 
work, where I had to feed a pulse laser with 30Amp pulses with 1ns 
rise/fall times. It took me a while to switch my brain from voltage 
to current, too.

To be continued,

JDB.
[the inductor really helps with turn-on time reduction; the entire 
system works similar to a step-up voltage converter. On the board I 
did for work I saw the voltage on the inductor-laser node swinging 
from 0 to 500V in less than one nanosecond !]
-- 
JDB, Rocket Scientist.


From clock at twibright.com  Sun Apr 30 20:40:42 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 21:40:42 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Ronja Digest, Vol 36, Issue 37
In-Reply-To: <20060430190832.81364.qmail@web53405.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.4.1146415626.24177.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
	<20060430190832.81364.qmail@web53405.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20060430194042.GA10543@kestrel>

On Sun, Apr 30, 2006 at 12:08:32PM -0700, Quintus Murray wrote:
> 
> maybe if I connect the risistors and capacitors through solar cells or
> modulated sunlight useing fiber optic cables that support 1Gbps speed
> I can problbly make a 1Gbps version of the ronja instead of the
> 100Mbps one. plus I know wi-fi sucks so will it be possibleto connect
> the ronjas to an ethernet switch/router to share the ronja's internet
> speed over ethernet instead of wi-fi so an AP isn't needed???

Modulated sunlight used to be used for optical communication in a device called
heliograph. Focusing sunlight into a fiber, then modulating it and relaunching
might work considering the strong infrared content. However garage-available
acoustooptical modulators will probably limit the speed significantly. And
semiconductor emitters probably already offer more brightness than this.

Quintus Murray seems to be from New York and going to elementary, middle or
high school:

Received: from [69.112.87.204] by web53411.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP;
Optimum Online (Cablevision Systems) 111 new south RD Hicksville NY 11801 US
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=11801&ll=40.762305,-73.52297&spn=0.766599,1.716614&om=1

Received: from [165.155.160.135] by web53415.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP;
Tue, 11 Apr 2006 10:06:08 PDT
Received: from [165.155.128.131] by web53410.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP;
Tue, 25 Apr 2006 10:32:57 PDT
New York City Public Schools NYCPS 2 Metrotech Center Suite 3600 Brooklyn NY 11201 US
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=11201&ll=40.694021,-73.99034&spn=0.767379,1.716614&om=1
RAbuseHandle: LK293-ARIN
RAbuseName:   Kong, Louvy
RAbusePhone:  +1-718-935-5733
RAbuseEmail:  hostmaster at nycboe.net

Received: from [24.188.43.156] by web53414.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP;
Received: from [24.188.43.156] by web53408.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP;
Received: from [24.188.43.156] by web53411.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP;
Received: from [24.188.43.156] by web53409.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP;
Received: from [24.188.43.156] by web53406.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP;
Received: from [24.188.43.156] by web53405.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP;
Optimum Online (Cablevision Systems) OOL-CPE-NYK1NY-24-188-40-0-22

According to Wikipedia,
"Optimum Online serves Long Island, other parts of New York, the Bronx,
Brooklyn, Westchester, parts of New Jersey, and Connecticut."

"Service Tiers 10 Mbit/s down/1 Mbit/s up (old/common standard) will be
phased out by June 2006 in all areas. 15 Mbit/s down/2 Mbit/s up (new
upcoming standard) will be phased in by June 2006. Free upgrade at
existing costs. 30 Mbit/s down/2 Mbit/s up (new premium "Boost" tier)
will be phased in by June 2006. An additional $14.95/month, or
$9.95/month for Optimum Voice subscribers."

CL<


From clock at twibright.com  Sun Apr 30 22:58:12 2006
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 23:58:12 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Ronja Digest, Vol 36, Issue 38
In-Reply-To: <20060430202244.7163.qmail@web53405.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.10.1146420082.24177.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
	<20060430202244.7163.qmail@web53405.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20060430215812.GA22268@kestrel>

On Sun, Apr 30, 2006 at 01:22:44PM -0700, Quintus Murray wrote:
> since the ronja source code is open and I found the source code of an
> ethernet switch/VPN router. By combining the source code of the
> ethernet switch/VPN router with that of the ronja would the ronja be
> able to be used as an ethernet switchor VPN router????

Yes.

CL<