From ales.chlubny at seznam.cz  Sat Oct  1 00:08:15 2005
From: ales.chlubny at seznam.cz (=?iso-8859-2?Q?Ale=B9_Chlubn=FD?=)
Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2005 01:08:15 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Teflon tape on Limehouse Town Hall toilet
In-Reply-To: <20050930212059.GA13752@kestrel>
Message-ID: <mailman.9.1128121545.13231.ronja@lists.pointless.net>

teflonova paska pro instalatery stoji asi 8Kc

S pozdravem,
Ales Chlubny

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ronja-bounces+ales.chlubny=seznam.cz at lists.pointless.net
> [mailto:ronja-bounces+ales.chlubny=seznam.cz at lists.pointless.net] On
> Behalf Of Karel Kulhavy
> Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 11:21 PM
> To: Twibright Ronja
> Subject: [Ronja] Teflon tape on Limehouse Town Hall toilet
> 
> Hello
> 
> I have been couple of minutes ago on the toilet in Limehouse Town Hall
> in London. I have noticed how the flush tank is sealed against the flush
> piping.
> 
> A teflon tape was first wound on the seam and silicone sealant was
> applied after that.
> 
> I think this is a very clever idea. That ensures that if you leave
> bubble in the sealana it won't cause a leakage.
> 
> I think this method should be recommended to be employed for sealing the
> front and rear lid to increase reliability of the sealing process. What
> do you think?
> 
> How expensive is teflon tape? I think not much because we got it at home
> since ages...
> 
> CL<
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja



From discover at fly.srk.fer.hr  Sat Oct  1 12:29:46 2005
From: discover at fly.srk.fer.hr (Silvije)
Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2005 13:29:46 +0200 (MEST)
Subject: [Ronja] bug report? and question?
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0510011324440.23100@fly.srk.fer.hr>


Hi all,

cl< what is with that utopia webring links?
it seems to me they dont work... maybe you would want to remove them?

question:

is there a problem if someone is manufacturing ronja for comercial
purposes? is one allowed to do so if he provides ronja sources?

what is someone (me) have it own fso system, and manufacture it for
comercial purposes, but uses just fork of ronja rx in his system design?
is there any problem or licence violation if i provide sources of ronja rx
and of ronja rx fork with this system?

Thanks for answers,

silvije


From ronja at cobrik.net  Sat Oct  1 14:30:02 2005
From: ronja at cobrik.net (ronja@cobrik.net)
Date: Sat, 01 Oct 2005 15:30:02 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Anomalie s Twisterem
In-Reply-To: <1368.2318-8544-62227451-1128064552@seznam.cz>
References: <1368.2318-8544-62227451-1128064552@seznam.cz>
Message-ID: <1128173402.433e8f5aaf26e@mail.cobrik.net>

Tak sem se konecne dostal k tomu zkusit ty kondiky a testnout to u kamose na te
problemove sitovce Marvell ... kazdymu 22pF kondiku (tedy C65 a C101) sem hodil
na zada jeste brasku 22pF a vse se zda byt OK ... Jiz jedou oba Twistery jak
maji a dosahuju na 2m vzdalenosti Tx vs. Rx 0% packet lost a prenosove
rychlosti neco kolem 1100 kB/s coz je vesmes predpisova hodnota (1250kB/s).

Jedine co mi ted vrta hlavou jak toto bylo mozny - asi sem mel smulu na
soucastky nybrz sem je kupoval spolecne na oba Twistery, osazoval sem je
spolecne tistaky mam z jedne varky a pajel sem je spolecne ... a presto ten
jeden byl bezproblemovej od zacatku a tomuhle sem musel dohodit ty kondiky
navic ...
A dal by me zajimalo proc prave 22pF a proc prave na tyto dve mista ... jestli
je zatim neco vic (nejaky odvozeni) ci jen cira nahoda ze to nekdo zkusil a
pomohlo mu to ...

Diky moc za vasi pomoc a odpovedi na me vsetecne otazky ale vzdycky holt
premyslim nad podstatou a funkci veci ... ale tohle by me asi hned tak
nenapadlo ...

Milos

> <  ------------ Puvodni zprava ------------
> <  Od:  <ronja at cobrik.net>
> <  Predmet: [Ronja] Anomalie s Twisterem
> <  Datum: 30.9.2005 02:37:47
> <  ----------------------------------------
> <  Zdravim,
> <
> <  mam takovej problemek a zaroven dotazek jestli jste se uz nekdo s touto
> <  anomalii
> <  nesetkal a netusite cim by to mohlo byt zapricineno ...
> <
> <  Mam vyrobenej jeden kompletni spoj Ronji 2x Tx, Rx, Twister, vesmes vse
> funguje
> <  jak ma Tx vs. Rx jede cca az do 2 - 2,5m vzdalenosti na koberci bez
> optiky.
> <  Kdyz sem vse testoval doma bylo to OK zde jsem pouzival sitove karty
> Micronet,
> <  Realtek, 3com, Intell. Pote sem zarizeni prenesl ke kamaradovi kde sme
> <  realizovali propojeni Realtek (3com) a na druhe strane sitovka Marvell a
> <  nestacil sem se divit ...
> <  Kdyz sme pingovali prosel mi tak kazdej treti ctvrtej paket nekdy ani to
> ne
>
> zkus dat paraleln? ke kondikum 22pF je?t? dal??ch 22pF a dej vedet jestli to
> pomohlo, me se to chovalo zrovna tak a od te doby to jede
>
>  a
> <  co
> <  bylo nejzajimavejsi kdyz sme prekryli trasu Tx vs Rx (Tx vedlo z Twisteru
> co
> <  byl
> <  v Realteku Rx vedlo do Twisteru smerem do Marvella) tak PC se sitovkou
> Marvell
> <  zahlasilo: sitovy kabel byl odpojen ... po odsraneni prekazky ohlasilo:
> sitovy
> <  kabel byl pripojen ... a tak se to dalo opakovat porad dokolecka.
>
> To je jednoduche, kdyz prijima? nema zadnej signal, ?um kterej ti z neho
> vychazi zblbne twistra, ten si mysli ?e ?um jsou data a prestane generovat
> linkove pulsy, no a PC to vyhodnoti ze byl odpojen kabel
> Kdy? ten Rx zakryje? tak se ti na twistru rozsv?t? nejsp?? Rx LED
>
> Pote sem
> <  zkousel zamenit jednotlive moduly Tx a Rx a porad beze zmen. Zmena prisla
> po
> <  zamene Twisteru ... vse se rozjelo bez nejmensiho problemu a spoj byl plne
> <  funkcni pri prohozeni twisteru nazpatek opet spoj zase trpel stejnou
> chybou.
> <
> <  Zapojeni je dle navodu Tx a Rx vzdusna konstrukce Twister na PCB jedina
> obmena
> <  je trosku delsi UTP z Twistru (cca 2,5m) jinak zbytek je vesmes dopuntiku
> <  stejnej vcetne soucastek ... max jsou uzity vyslovne povolene nahrady,
> napajeni
> <  12V starsi PC zdroj popr i 2x pro kazdej twister zvlast (ale vesmes to
> bylo fuk
> <  chova se to porad stejne).
> <
> <  Diky
> <
> <  Milos Hladena
> <
> <  _______________________________________________
> <  Ronja mailing list
> <  Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> <  http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> <
> <
> <
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>





From radek at podgorny.cz  Sat Oct  1 14:46:01 2005
From: radek at podgorny.cz (Radek Podgorny)
Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2005 15:46:01 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] LOL Subversion+apache2+gentoo
In-Reply-To: <7640.1128010210@www9.gmx.net>
References: <20050927203708.GA28257@kestrel> <7640.1128010210@www9.gmx.net>
Message-ID: <200510011546.04688.radek@podgorny.cz>

What is the problem, exactly?

My server config (on gentoo) follows:


radek at podgorny ~ $ emerge apache subversion -pv

These are the packages that I would merge, in order:

Calculating dependencies ...done!
[ebuild   R   ] net-www/apache-2.0.54-r31  +apache2 -debug -doc -ldap 
-mpm-leader -mpm-peruser -mpm-prefork -mpm-threadpool -mpm-worker -no-suexec 
(-selinux) +ssl -static-modules +threads 0 kB 
[ebuild   R   ] dev-util/subversion-1.2.3-r1  +apache2 +bash-completion 
+berkdb -emacs -java -nls -nowebdav -perl -python +zlib 0 kB 

Total size of downloads: 0 kB

Regards...
Radek Podgorny


> gentoo, get ubuntu !
>
> > --- Urspr?ngliche Nachricht ---
> > Von: Karel Kulhavy <clock at twibright.com>
> > An: Twibright Ronja <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
> > Betreff: [Ronja] LOL Subversion+apache2+gentoo
> > Datum: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 22:37:08 +0200
> >
> > net-www/apache-2 (is blocking dev-util/subversion-1.2.3)
> >
> > Looks like Ronja won't be able to be developed on gentoo :)
> >
> > What should I kick off from Ronja? :)
> >
> > 1) Apache
> > 2) Subversion
> > 3) gentoo
> >
> > CL<
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ronja mailing list
> > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja

-- 
GnuPG key: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x98E56D84
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From gareth at sublime.org  Sat Oct  1 23:16:59 2005
From: gareth at sublime.org (Gareth Coleman)
Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2005 23:16:59 +0100
Subject: [Ronja] Ronja Digest, Vol 30, Issue 1
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1128164401.27723.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
Message-ID: <Zen-1ELpbo-0005LC-6n@heisenberg.zen.co.uk>

Clock said:

> A teflon tape was first wound on the seam and silicone sealant was
> applied after that.
> 
> I think this is a very clever idea. That ensures that if you leave
> bubble in the sealana it won't cause a leakage.
> 
> I think this method should be recommended to be employed for sealing the
> front and rear lid to increase reliability of the sealing process. What
> do you think?

My experience with plumbing joints is that if the joints have threads then
PTFE (Teflon TM) tape is magic stuff - cheap and readily available in
various widths. Wrap two-four layers around the male thread and when you
screw the parts together it all smears around inside making a very good
seal. 

But the ronja heads don't use threads do they?

BTW why not acetic acid based sealant?

Gareth

-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.9/116 - Release Date: 30/09/2005
 



From cd930 at centrum.cz  Sun Oct  2 00:23:36 2005
From: cd930 at centrum.cz (-=RYS=-)
Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2005 01:23:36 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Ronja
Message-ID: <200510020123.24856@centrum.cz>

Tak uz to chodi, zitra jdu montovat na strechu.
Zaparil jsem pres to i na Counter-Strike 1.6Steam.
http://www.qsl.net/ok0bez/files/rys/TPinterface_Ronja/Ronja/CS16.jpg
http://www.qsl.net/ok0bez/files/rys/TPinterface_Ronja/Ronja/Roura13.jpg
-=RYS=-


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From santiago at mail.cz  Sun Oct  2 11:48:36 2005
From: santiago at mail.cz (Ondrej Zajicek)
Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2005 12:48:36 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Ronja Digest, Vol 30, Issue 1
In-Reply-To: <Zen-1ELpbo-0005LC-6n@heisenberg.zen.co.uk>
References: <mailman.1.1128164401.27723.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
	<Zen-1ELpbo-0005LC-6n@heisenberg.zen.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20051002104836.GE825@elros>

On Sat, Oct 01, 2005 at 11:16:59PM +0100, Gareth Coleman wrote:
> BTW why not acetic acid based sealant?

I use acrylic acid based sealant and after some time surface of
zinc-galvanized caps was horribly damaged.

-- 
Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo

Ondrej 'SanTiago' Zajicek (email: santiago at mail.cz, jabber: santiago at njs.netlab.cz)
OpenPGP encrypted e-mails preferred (KeyID 0x11DEADC3, wwwkeys.pgp.net)
"To err is human -- to blame it on a computer is even more so."
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From cd930 at centrum.cz  Sun Oct  2 12:08:18 2005
From: cd930 at centrum.cz (-=RYS=-)
Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2005 13:08:18 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Ronja-Zatec
Message-ID: <200510021308.24518@centrum.cz>

Tak dopoledne jsem dam na strechu jednu stranu.
http://www.qsl.net/ok0bez/files/rys/TPinterface_Ronja/Ronja/Ronja_prazska1.jpg
http://www.qsl.net/ok0bez/files/rys/TPinterface_Ronja/Ronja/Ronja_prazska2.jpg
http://www.qsl.net/ok0bez/files/rys/TPinterface_Ronja/Ronja/Ronja_prazska3.jpg
http://www.qsl.net/ok0bez/files/rys/TPinterface_Ronja/Ronja/Ronja_prazska4.jpg
A ted odpoledne udelam druhou stranu a doladim.
Vzdalenost je dle GPS 937m.
Vse je original Ronja-Tetrapolis by Clock.
130mm cocky a F4000?, TX/RX air, TWISTER DPS
Zmeny proti puvodne Tetrapolis:
- vytapeci odpor je jeden a zevnitr nalepenej na cocku
- na zadku rour jsou konektory (nepouzivam cokoladu)
- do krabicky kde je Twister DPS jsem doplnil svou DPS, kde je PoE, RSSI prevodnik a LAN trafo (50m UTP)
-=RYS=-


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From clock at twibright.com  Sun Oct  2 16:22:26 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2005 17:22:26 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Slides from WSFII
Message-ID: <20051002152226.GA11620@kestrel.t-n-p.org>

Hello

Yesterday I held a talk about Ronja at WSFII. The slides are at
http://ronja.twibright.com/about.php

CL<


From clock at twibright.com  Sun Oct  2 17:11:20 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2005 18:11:20 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Final proof that Arch is *terminal* crap :)
Message-ID: <20051002161120.GA12690@kestrel.t-n-p.org>

After a tla commit was broken (due to interrupted network), I now get:
clock at kestrel:~/creat/ronja$ tla commit
[...]
arch_commit: unable to acquire revision lock (internal error in
                                              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
archive-pfs.c(pfs_lock_revision))
tree: /home/clock/creat/ronja
revision:
clock at twibright.com--2004-twibright/ronja--mainline--0.1--patch-498

I have a hypothesis that every program that produces internal errors is
crap ;-)

CL<


From kendy at hkfree.org  Sun Oct  2 18:26:10 2005
From: kendy at hkfree.org (Kendy - HKFree)
Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2005 19:26:10 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Ronja-Zatec
In-Reply-To: <200510021308.24518@centrum.cz>
References: <200510021308.24518@centrum.cz>
Message-ID: <43401832.4040000@hkfree.org>

Cowece, kde to je ten qsl.net ? Jde to z nej hoooooooodne pomalu....

-=RYS=- napsal(a):

> Tak dopoledne jsem dam na strechu jednu stranu.
> 
> http://www.qsl.net/ok0bez/files/rys/TPinterface_Ronja/Ronja/Ronja_prazska1.jpg
> 
> http://www.qsl.net/ok0bez/files/rys/TPinterface_Ronja/Ronja/Ronja_prazska2.jpg
> 
> http://www.qsl.net/ok0bez/files/rys/TPinterface_Ronja/Ronja/Ronja_prazska3.jpg
> 
> http://www.qsl.net/ok0bez/files/rys/TPinterface_Ronja/Ronja/Ronja_prazska4.jpg
> 
> A ted odpoledne udelam druhou stranu a doladim.
> 
> Vzdalenost je dle GPS 937m.
> 
> Vse je original Ronja-Tetrapolis by Clock.
> 
> 130mm cocky a F4000 , TX/RX air, TWISTER DPS
> 
> Zmeny proti puvodne Tetrapolis:
> 
> - vytapeci odpor je jeden a zevnitr nalepenej na cocku
> 
> - na zadku rour jsou konektory (nepouzivam cokoladu)
> 
> - do krabicky kde je Twister DPS jsem doplnil svou DPS, kde je PoE, RSSI 
> prevodnik a LAN trafo (50m UTP)
> 
> -=RYS=-
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From cd930 at centrum.cz  Sun Oct  2 18:53:44 2005
From: cd930 at centrum.cz (-=RYS=-)
Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2005 19:53:44 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Ronja-Zatec
Message-ID: <200510021953.15367@centrum.cz>

Nekde v Atlante.
Jinak jsem ted slezl ze strechy a nahravam Andromedu :)
Vzdalenost dle GPS je presne 934m (nova GPS :)? ).
Na jedne strane je 2.3V a na druhe strane je 2.8V (je tam citlivejsi prijimac).
A za hodinu (po nahrati Andromedy) to pujdu zapojit do switchu.
Pak zkusim pingovani.
Martin? -=RYS=-


______________________________________________________________
> Od: kendy at hkfree.org
> Komu: ronja at lists.pointless.net
> CC: 
> Datum: 02.10.2005 19:26
> P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Ronja-Zatec
>
> Cowece, kde to je ten qsl.net ? Jde to z nej hoooooooodne pomalu....
> 
> -=RYS=- napsal(a):
> 
> > Tak dopoledne jsem dam na strechu jednu stranu.
> > 
> >
> http://www.qsl.net/ok0bez/files/rys/TPinterface_Ronja/Ronja/Ronja_prazska1.jpg
> > 
> >
> http://www.qsl.net/ok0bez/files/rys/TPinterface_Ronja/Ronja/Ronja_prazska2.jpg
> > 
> >
> http://www.qsl.net/ok0bez/files/rys/TPinterface_Ronja/Ronja/Ronja_prazska3.jpg
> > 
> >
> http://www.qsl.net/ok0bez/files/rys/TPinterface_Ronja/Ronja/Ronja_prazska4.jpg
> > 
> > A ted odpoledne udelam druhou stranu a doladim.
> > 
> > Vzdalenost je dle GPS 937m.
> > 
> > Vse je original Ronja-Tetrapolis by Clock.
> > 
> > 130mm cocky a F4000 , TX/RX air, TWISTER DPS
> > 
> > Zmeny proti puvodne Tetrapolis:
> > 
> > - vytapeci odpor je jeden a zevnitr nalepenej na cocku
> > 
> > - na zadku rour jsou konektory (nepouzivam cokoladu)
> > 
> > - do krabicky kde je Twister DPS jsem doplnil svou DPS, kde je PoE, RSSI
> 
> > prevodnik a LAN trafo (50m UTP)
> > 
> > -=RYS=-
> > 
> > 
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ronja mailing list
> > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 


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From kendy at hkfree.org  Sun Oct  2 18:55:27 2005
From: kendy at hkfree.org (Kendy - HKFree)
Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2005 19:55:27 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Ronja-Zatec
In-Reply-To: <200510021953.15367@centrum.cz>
References: <200510021953.15367@centrum.cz>
Message-ID: <43401F0F.1020107@hkfree.org>

Drzim palce. Mohl bys nahrat ty obrazky jinam ? Takhle si je skoro nikdo 
neprohledne...



-=RYS=- napsal(a):

> Nekde v Atlante.
> 
> Jinak jsem ted slezl ze strechy a nahravam Andromedu :)
> 
> Vzdalenost dle GPS je presne 934m (nova GPS :)  ).
> 
> Na jedne strane je 2.3V a na druhe strane je 2.8V (je tam citlivejsi 
> prijimac).
> 
> A za hodinu (po nahrati Andromedy) to pujdu zapojit do switchu.
> 
> Pak zkusim pingovani.
> 
> Martin  -=RYS=-
> 
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________________________
>  > Od: kendy at hkfree.org
>  > Komu: ronja at lists.pointless.net
>  > CC:
>  > Datum: 02.10.2005 19:26
>  > P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Ronja-Zatec
>  >
>  > Cowece, kde to je ten qsl.net ? Jde to z nej hoooooooodne pomalu....
>  >
>  > -=RYS=- napsal(a):
>  >
>  > > Tak dopoledne jsem dam na strechu jednu stranu.
>  > >
>  > >
>  > 
> http://www.qsl.net/ok0bez/files/rys/TPinterface_Ronja/Ronja/Ronja_prazska1.jpg
>  > >
>  > >
>  > 
> http://www.qsl.net/ok0bez/files/rys/TPinterface_Ronja/Ronja/Ronja_prazska2.jpg
>  > >
>  > >
>  > 
> http://www.qsl.net/ok0bez/files/rys/TPinterface_Ronja/Ronja/Ronja_prazska3.jpg
>  > >
>  > >
>  > 
> http://www.qsl.net/ok0bez/files/rys/TPinterface_Ronja/Ronja/Ronja_prazska4.jpg
>  > >
>  > > A ted odpoledne udelam druhou stranu a doladim.
>  > >
>  > > Vzdalenost je dle GPS 937m.
>  > >
>  > > Vse je original Ronja-Tetrapolis by Clock.
>  > >
>  > > 130mm cocky a F4000 , TX/RX air, TWISTER DPS
>  > >
>  > > Zmeny proti puvodne Tetrapolis:
>  > >
>  > > - vytapeci odpor je jeden a zevnitr nalepenej na cocku
>  > >
>  > > - na zadku rour jsou konektory (nepouzivam cokoladu)
>  > >
>  > > - do krabicky kde je Twister DPS jsem doplnil svou DPS, kde je PoE, 
> RSSI
>  >
>  > > prevodnik a LAN trafo (50m UTP)
>  > >
>  > > -=RYS=-
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  > >
>  > > _______________________________________________
>  > > Ronja mailing list
>  > > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
>  > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>  >
>  > _______________________________________________
>  > Ronja mailing list
>  > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
>  > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>  >
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From clock at twibright.com  Sun Oct  2 20:20:14 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2005 21:20:14 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Anomalie s Twisterem
In-Reply-To: <1128037053.433c7abd6fd6a@mail.cobrik.net>
References: <1128037053.433c7abd6fd6a@mail.cobrik.net>
Message-ID: <20051002192013.GA22340@kestrel.t-n-p.org>

On Fri, Sep 30, 2005 at 01:37:33AM +0200, ronja at cobrik.net wrote:
> Zdravim,
> 
> mam takovej problemek a zaroven dotazek jestli jste se uz nekdo s touto anomalii
> nesetkal a netusite cim by to mohlo byt zapricineno ...
> 
> Mam vyrobenej jeden kompletni spoj Ronji 2x Tx, Rx, Twister, vesmes vse funguje
> jak ma Tx vs. Rx jede cca az do 2 - 2,5m vzdalenosti na koberci bez optiky.
> Kdyz sem vse testoval doma bylo to OK zde jsem pouzival sitove karty Micronet,
> Realtek, 3com, Intell. Pote sem zarizeni prenesl ke kamaradovi kde sme
> realizovali propojeni Realtek (3com) a na druhe strane sitovka Marvell a
> nestacil sem se divit ...
> Kdyz sme pingovali prosel mi tak kazdej treti ctvrtej paket nekdy ani to ne a co
> bylo nejzajimavejsi kdyz sme prekryli trasu Tx vs Rx (Tx vedlo z Twisteru co byl
> v Realteku Rx vedlo do Twisteru smerem do Marvella) tak PC se sitovkou Marvell
> zahlasilo: sitovy kabel byl odpojen ... po odsraneni prekazky ohlasilo: sitovy
> kabel byl pripojen ... a tak se to dalo opakovat porad dokolecka. Pote sem

This is probably because noise was received which plagued the network
card and it thought it's disconnected cable. That's OK (a byproduct of
Ethernet bureaucracy).

> zkousel zamenit jednotlive moduly Tx a Rx a porad beze zmen. Zmena prisla po
> zamene Twisteru ... vse se rozjelo bez nejmensiho problemu a spoj byl plne
> funkcni pri prohozeni twisteru nazpatek opet spoj zase trpel stejnou chybou.
> 
> Zapojeni je dle navodu Tx a Rx vzdusna konstrukce Twister na PCB jedina obmena
> je trosku delsi UTP z Twistru (cca 2,5m) jinak zbytek je vesmes dopuntiku
> stejnej vcetne soucastek ... max jsou uzity vyslovne povolene nahrady, napajeni
> 12V starsi PC zdroj popr i 2x pro kazdej twister zvlast (ale vesmes to bylo fuk
> chova se to porad stejne).

Don't you use some unallowed replacement (like putting 74HCT where 74HC
is not allowed or vice versa)?

CL<


From ronja at cobrik.net  Mon Oct  3 01:42:06 2005
From: ronja at cobrik.net (ronja@cobrik.net)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 02:42:06 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Anomalie s Twisterem
In-Reply-To: <20051002192013.GA22340@kestrel.t-n-p.org>
References: <1128037053.433c7abd6fd6a@mail.cobrik.net>
	<20051002192013.GA22340@kestrel.t-n-p.org>
Message-ID: <1128300126.43407e5e9b2ee@mail.cobrik.net>

Tak mam dalsi poznatek ... problem se sitovkou Marvell sem sice odstranil
pouzitim 22pF kondiku navic ale bohuzel na zminenem Twisteru i tak nebude asi
vse uplne totozne s tim druhym co mam sestaveny nybrz sem se ted dostal na
kolej
(VS) kde sem mel sanci ozkouset dalsi vzorek a to nejakej docela inteligentni
Switch 10/100 jen presne netusim co to je za znacku a mam opet ten samy problem
...
Pokud si necham onen problemovy Twister v sitovce (Realtek) v PC spoj jede ...
ikdyz obcas se stane ze nejakej paket skobrtne ale to fakt minimalne (sit je
predevsim 100 a lita tu na ni silena zmet dat a hlavne i multicast na Televizni
vysilani atd ... cili bych se ani nedivil) ale jak to prohodim neproleze mi
takrka zadnej paket ikdyz Ledky na Twisterech blikaji jak maji vse se na venek
tvari ze ty data to fakt prenasi ale neprojde takrka nic ... opravdu divny ...
Vesmes by me to mohlo byt fuk kdyz se s tim zrovna netrefim do zarizeni s kterym
si to nerozumi tak mi to jede bajecne ale ... nejak mi to neda spat a porad
premyslim kde muze byt ta odlisnost ... jestli by se nedalo treba zkusit
nekterou ze soucastek vymenit ktera by toto nebo podobny problem mohla mit
nasvedomi ...

Ne opravdu nepovolene nahrady sem nepouzil ... vse dle navodu a rozpisu jediny
co se teda lisi je DS26LS31 a DS26LS32 a to ze mam pouzity AM26LS31 a AM26LS32
ale to at sem se sebevic snazil tak na DSka sem vazne nenarazil ... Mohl by
tohle byt ten problem ? (Ale pak si rikam proc jedno zarizeni jede a druhy dela
problemy) a pak mam delsi UTP (2,5m) ktere se tedy chystam jiz ze zoufalstvi
zkratit.

Tot asi zatim vse co me napada ... za vase pripadne rady a nazory moc diky ...

Milos

> On Fri, Sep 30, 2005 at 01:37:33AM +0200, ronja at cobrik.net wrote:
> > Zdravim,
> >
> > mam takovej problemek a zaroven dotazek jestli jste se uz nekdo s touto
> anomalii
> > nesetkal a netusite cim by to mohlo byt zapricineno ...
> >
> > Mam vyrobenej jeden kompletni spoj Ronji 2x Tx, Rx, Twister, vesmes vse
> funguje
> > jak ma Tx vs. Rx jede cca az do 2 - 2,5m vzdalenosti na koberci bez optiky.
> > Kdyz sem vse testoval doma bylo to OK zde jsem pouzival sitove karty
> Micronet,
> > Realtek, 3com, Intell. Pote sem zarizeni prenesl ke kamaradovi kde sme
> > realizovali propojeni Realtek (3com) a na druhe strane sitovka Marvell a
> > nestacil sem se divit ...
> > Kdyz sme pingovali prosel mi tak kazdej treti ctvrtej paket nekdy ani to ne
> a co
> > bylo nejzajimavejsi kdyz sme prekryli trasu Tx vs Rx (Tx vedlo z Twisteru
> co byl
> > v Realteku Rx vedlo do Twisteru smerem do Marvella) tak PC se sitovkou
> Marvell
> > zahlasilo: sitovy kabel byl odpojen ... po odsraneni prekazky ohlasilo:
> sitovy
> > kabel byl pripojen ... a tak se to dalo opakovat porad dokolecka. Pote sem
>
> This is probably because noise was received which plagued the network
> card and it thought it's disconnected cable. That's OK (a byproduct of
> Ethernet bureaucracy).
>
> > zkousel zamenit jednotlive moduly Tx a Rx a porad beze zmen. Zmena prisla
> po
> > zamene Twisteru ... vse se rozjelo bez nejmensiho problemu a spoj byl plne
> > funkcni pri prohozeni twisteru nazpatek opet spoj zase trpel stejnou
> chybou.
> >
> > Zapojeni je dle navodu Tx a Rx vzdusna konstrukce Twister na PCB jedina
> obmena
> > je trosku delsi UTP z Twistru (cca 2,5m) jinak zbytek je vesmes dopuntiku
> > stejnej vcetne soucastek ... max jsou uzity vyslovne povolene nahrady,
> napajeni
> > 12V starsi PC zdroj popr i 2x pro kazdej twister zvlast (ale vesmes to bylo
> fuk
> > chova se to porad stejne).
>
> Don't you use some unallowed replacement (like putting 74HCT where 74HC
> is not allowed or vice versa)?
>
> CL<
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>





From ronja at cobrik.net  Mon Oct  3 01:58:08 2005
From: ronja at cobrik.net (ronja@cobrik.net)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 02:58:08 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Tx, Rx LED mimo krabicku
Message-ID: <1128301088.4340822075488@mail.cobrik.net>

Zdravim,

mel bych dotaz jestli jiz nekdo z Vas nezkousel vytahnout Led v Tx modulu (HPWT
...) a Fotodiodu v Rx (SFH2030) mimo krabicku danych modulu treba na nejakym
dratku (mysleno tenkem koaxialu) rekneme tak do vzdalenosti 5-10cm samozrejme
za predpokladu dodrzeni potrebneho zapusteni diod (mysleno aby treba koukala z
fotodiody cca 1/3 ven atd ...)
Mam docela problem vyrobit tubusy a uchytit do nich krabicky jednotlivych modulu
tak aby diody byly opravdu kolmo na cocku ... ale kdybych je mohl vytahnout
alespon nejakej ten centimetr na kabliku mimo do samostatneho uchytu bylo by to
moc fajn ...
Cely muj dotaz tedy hlavne spociva v tom co se potom stane se signalem co jde na
vysilaci diodu a z prijimaci diody ... utrpim tim nekde prilis velke ztraty ci
zkresleni sinalu nebo rekneme do par centimetru je to prijatelny ?
(Myslim ze vcelku vysilaci diode na kterou jde vcelku signal silny by to az
tolik vadit nemuselo jako naopak prijimaci ktera zpracovava signal slaby cimz
bych do nej mohl jeste nachytat dalsi ruseni navic ?)

Diky za odpovedi

Milos


From quintusmurray at yahoo.com  Mon Oct  3 03:06:45 2005
From: quintusmurray at yahoo.com (Quintus Murray)
Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2005 19:06:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Ronja] Ronja Digest, Vol 30, Issue 3
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1718.1128301090.2010.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
Message-ID: <20051003020646.99083.qmail@web53415.mail.yahoo.com>


Hi quintus here and I just read a satellite magazine and found out something about internet maybe you can make a ronja that uses solar powered light instead of LED to enhance the internet connections speed.   

		
---------------------------------
Yahoo! for Good
 Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. 
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From m.malusek at seznam.cz  Mon Oct  3 06:22:32 2005
From: m.malusek at seznam.cz (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Michal_Malusek?=)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 07:22:32 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Tx, Rx LED mimo krabicku
References: <1128301088.4340822075488@mail.cobrik.net>
Message-ID: <001b01c5c7da$74fe7bc0$0103450a@thechosen>

jedine ceho tim docilis tak toho ze to nebude fungovat. tohle nemusel asi
ani nikdo zkouset.

ty diody nemusi byt uplne kolmo. to snad ani neni nikde napsane. tohle si
dostelujes pak celym tubusem.

Glo


----- Original Message ----- 
From: <ronja at cobrik.net>
To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 2:58 AM
Subject: [Ronja] Tx, Rx LED mimo krabicku


> Zdravim,
>
> mel bych dotaz jestli jiz nekdo z Vas nezkousel vytahnout Led v Tx modulu
(HPWT
> ...) a Fotodiodu v Rx (SFH2030) mimo krabicku danych modulu treba na
nejakym
> dratku (mysleno tenkem koaxialu) rekneme tak do vzdalenosti 5-10cm
samozrejme
> za predpokladu dodrzeni potrebneho zapusteni diod (mysleno aby treba
koukala z
> fotodiody cca 1/3 ven atd ...)
> Mam docela problem vyrobit tubusy a uchytit do nich krabicky jednotlivych
modulu
> tak aby diody byly opravdu kolmo na cocku ... ale kdybych je mohl
vytahnout
> alespon nejakej ten centimetr na kabliku mimo do samostatneho uchytu bylo
by to
> moc fajn ...
> Cely muj dotaz tedy hlavne spociva v tom co se potom stane se signalem co
jde na
> vysilaci diodu a z prijimaci diody ... utrpim tim nekde prilis velke
ztraty ci
> zkresleni sinalu nebo rekneme do par centimetru je to prijatelny ?
> (Myslim ze vcelku vysilaci diode na kterou jde vcelku signal silny by to
az
> tolik vadit nemuselo jako naopak prijimaci ktera zpracovava signal slaby
cimz
> bych do nej mohl jeste nachytat dalsi ruseni navic ?)
>
> Diky za odpovedi
>
> Milos
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>



From Seligr at sh.cvut.cz  Mon Oct  3 07:58:33 2005
From: Seligr at sh.cvut.cz (Seligr@sh.cvut.cz)
Date: Mon,  3 Oct 2005 08:58:33 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Tx, Rx LED mimo krabicku
In-Reply-To: <1128301088.4340822075488@mail.cobrik.net>
References: <1128301088.4340822075488@mail.cobrik.net>
Message-ID: <1128322713.4340d699e5125@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>

TX dioda se necha vystrcit tak 5-10cm od krabicky. Je potreba pouzit UTP kablik
a odpor 8,2R dat az k diode. Jestli je dioda vyosena o +-5? vuci ose trubky, tak
to nema nejaky vliv.
Samotnou RX diodu vystrcit nejde, tim se brutalne snizi citlivost. Nicmene lze
vystrcit diodu + MOSFET do male krabicky (AH100 z GME?) a zase to pripojit UTP
kablikem. Jenze to bez patricnich znalosti bez zhorseni citlivosti nelze.

Petr



> Zdravim,
> 
> mel bych dotaz jestli jiz nekdo z Vas nezkousel vytahnout Led v Tx modulu
> (HPWT
> ...) a Fotodiodu v Rx (SFH2030) mimo krabicku danych modulu treba na
> nejakym
> dratku (mysleno tenkem koaxialu) rekneme tak do vzdalenosti 5-10cm
> samozrejme
> za predpokladu dodrzeni potrebneho zapusteni diod (mysleno aby treba koukala
> z
> fotodiody cca 1/3 ven atd ...)
> Mam docela problem vyrobit tubusy a uchytit do nich krabicky jednotlivych
> modulu
> tak aby diody byly opravdu kolmo na cocku ... ale kdybych je mohl vytahnout
> alespon nejakej ten centimetr na kabliku mimo do samostatneho uchytu bylo by
> to
> moc fajn ...
> Cely muj dotaz tedy hlavne spociva v tom co se potom stane se signalem co jde
> na
> vysilaci diodu a z prijimaci diody ... utrpim tim nekde prilis velke ztraty
> ci
> zkresleni sinalu nebo rekneme do par centimetru je to prijatelny ?
> (Myslim ze vcelku vysilaci diode na kterou jde vcelku signal silny by to az
> tolik vadit nemuselo jako naopak prijimaci ktera zpracovava signal slaby
> cimz
> bych do nej mohl jeste nachytat dalsi ruseni navic ?)
> 
> Diky za odpovedi
> 
> Milos
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 





From cd930 at centrum.cz  Mon Oct  3 08:01:48 2005
From: cd930 at centrum.cz (-=RYS=-)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 09:01:48 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Ronja-Zatec
Message-ID: <200510030901.5125@centrum.cz>

Obrazky budou presunuty na www.elhamobil.cz? , ale az udelam web.
Od 21.00 bezi pakety jak krava.
Na obou koncich jsou 24P L3 switche s internim OSPF (prepne to za 30s) a na portech
nastaveno 10MB/FD/Flow ON/Force ON.
I pakety 63000b jedoou....pak sviti cervena a zelena LED jak KRAVA :)
No ted dostavuji jeste dalsi a jejich grafy uz by meli byt videt z venci.
Sila signalu / traffic / web kamera.
Takze prvni oficialni Ronja ze Zatce a tusim i z okresu Louny.
O vikendu vezmu lepsi digi fotak (tohle jsem bral pres Nokii 7610) a poradne nafotim.
Takze si to pak muze Karel hodit do fotogalerie jako dalsi Ronja trasu.
-=RYS=-


______________________________________________________________
> Od: kendy at hkfree.org
> Komu: ronja at lists.pointless.net
> CC: 
> Datum: 02.10.2005 19:55
> P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Ronja-Zatec
>
> Drzim palce. Mohl bys nahrat ty obrazky jinam ? Takhle si je skoro nikdo 
> neprohledne...
> 
> 
> 
> -=RYS=- napsal(a):
> 
> > Nekde v Atlante.
> > 
> > Jinak jsem ted slezl ze strechy a nahravam Andromedu :)
> > 
> > Vzdalenost dle GPS je presne 934m (nova GPS :) ).
> > 
> > Na jedne strane je 2.3V a na druhe strane je 2.8V (je tam citlivejsi 
> > prijimac).
> > 
> > A za hodinu (po nahrati Andromedy) to pujdu zapojit do switchu.
> > 
> > Pak zkusim pingovani.
> > 
> > Martin -=RYS=-
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > > Od: kendy at hkfree.org
> > > Komu: ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > > CC:
> > > Datum: 02.10.2005 19:26
> > > P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Ronja-Zatec
> > >
> > > Cowece, kde to je ten qsl.net ? Jde to z nej hoooooooodne pomalu....
> > >
> > > -=RYS=- napsal(a):
> > >
> > > > Tak dopoledne jsem dam na strechu jednu stranu.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > 
> >
> http://www.qsl.net/ok0bez/files/rys/TPinterface_Ronja/Ronja/Ronja_prazska1.jpg
> > > >
> > > >
> > > 
> >
> http://www.qsl.net/ok0bez/files/rys/TPinterface_Ronja/Ronja/Ronja_prazska2.jpg
> > > >
> > > >
> > > 
> >
> http://www.qsl.net/ok0bez/files/rys/TPinterface_Ronja/Ronja/Ronja_prazska3.jpg
> > > >
> > > >
> > > 
> >
> http://www.qsl.net/ok0bez/files/rys/TPinterface_Ronja/Ronja/Ronja_prazska4.jpg
> > > >
> > > > A ted odpoledne udelam druhou stranu a doladim.
> > > >
> > > > Vzdalenost je dle GPS 937m.
> > > >
> > > > Vse je original Ronja-Tetrapolis by Clock.
> > > >
> > > > 130mm cocky a F4000 , TX/RX air, TWISTER DPS
> > > >
> > > > Zmeny proti puvodne Tetrapolis:
> > > >
> > > > - vytapeci odpor je jeden a zevnitr nalepenej na cocku
> > > >
> > > > - na zadku rour jsou konektory (nepouzivam cokoladu)
> > > >
> > > > - do krabicky kde je Twister DPS jsem doplnil svou DPS, kde je PoE,
> 
> > RSSI
> > >
> > > > prevodnik a LAN trafo (50m UTP)
> > > >
> > > > -=RYS=-
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Ronja mailing list
> > > > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Ronja mailing list
> > > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> > >
> > 
> > 
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ronja mailing list
> > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 


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HTML p??loha byla odstran?na...
URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20051003/1db129f1/attachment.html

From Seligr at sh.cvut.cz  Mon Oct  3 08:10:34 2005
From: Seligr at sh.cvut.cz (Seligr@sh.cvut.cz)
Date: Mon,  3 Oct 2005 09:10:34 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Unofficial SMD RX board
In-Reply-To: <20051003020646.99083.qmail@web53415.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20051003020646.99083.qmail@web53415.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1128323434.4340d96a7017f@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>

Zdar vsem,
na http://laser.webpark.cz/download.html je mozno stahnout data pro vyrobu desky
plosnych spoju na RX. Osazeni krome fotodiody a pripadne BNC konektoru je
vyhradne SMD. Zbytek dokumentace snad dodelam behem 14dni, jeste zbyva doladit
hodnoty soucastek jednotlivych subverzi. Schema se strikne nedrzi Clocka. Je
totiz mozno osadit BNC konektory, nebo primo zapajet koax ci UTP kabel nebo
"booster". Vykony prvnich osazenych kousku jsou konzistentni a velmi dobre.
Data jsou v gerber formatu + vrtacka Sieb&Mayer. V pragoboardu jsou od toho
filmy s panelizaci 2*3 kusy. Pokud by je nekdo chtel pouzit pro vyrobu, tak
firma pozaduje muj souhlas. Kdyby nekdo potreboval data Excellon, je mozno je
vygenerovat, az prijdu na to jak.
Spatna zprava pro ty, ktery by na tom chteli trhnout - neda se to strojove
zapajet pretavenim.

Dik sponzorum, Petr


From phillskonf at atlas.cz  Mon Oct  3 14:59:26 2005
From: phillskonf at atlas.cz (Phill)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 15:59:26 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Twister na prodej
Message-ID: <20051003135924.B0CC912C008@mail.karneval.cz>

Mel bych tu na prodej dva funkcni twistery v krabickach z nedostavene Ronji.
Bohuzel uz na to nemam cas.

V pripade zajmu piste na phill(a)seznam(tecka)cz a nabidnete cenu.

-Phill



From ladmanj at volny.cz  Mon Oct  3 16:19:19 2005
From: ladmanj at volny.cz (Jakub Ladman)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 17:19:19 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Unofficial SMD RX board
In-Reply-To: <1128323434.4340d96a7017f@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
References: <20051003020646.99083.qmail@web53415.mail.yahoo.com>
	<1128323434.4340d96a7017f@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
Message-ID: <200510031719.19754.ladmanj@volny.cz>

Bude k tomu takz nejaka dokumentace? Jako schema a tak? A eaglova data?
Jakub Ladman
Dne po 3. ??jna 2005 09:10 Seligr at sh.cvut.cz napsal(a):
> Zdar vsem,
> na http://laser.webpark.cz/download.html je mozno stahnout data pro vyrobu
> desky plosnych spoju na RX. Osazeni krome fotodiody a pripadne BNC
> konektoru je vyhradne SMD. Zbytek dokumentace snad dodelam behem 14dni,
> jeste zbyva doladit hodnoty soucastek jednotlivych subverzi. Schema se
> strikne nedrzi Clocka. Je totiz mozno osadit BNC konektory, nebo primo
> zapajet koax ci UTP kabel nebo "booster". Vykony prvnich osazenych kousku
> jsou konzistentni a velmi dobre. Data jsou v gerber formatu + vrtacka
> Sieb&Mayer. V pragoboardu jsou od toho filmy s panelizaci 2*3 kusy. Pokud
> by je nekdo chtel pouzit pro vyrobu, tak firma pozaduje muj souhlas. Kdyby
> nekdo potreboval data Excellon, je mozno je vygenerovat, az prijdu na to
> jak.
> Spatna zprava pro ty, ktery by na tom chteli trhnout - neda se to strojove
> zapajet pretavenim.
>
> Dik sponzorum, Petr
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From Seligr at sh.cvut.cz  Mon Oct  3 18:36:14 2005
From: Seligr at sh.cvut.cz (Seligr@sh.cvut.cz)
Date: Mon,  3 Oct 2005 19:36:14 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Unofficial SMD RX board
In-Reply-To: <200510031719.19754.ladmanj@volny.cz>
References: <20051003020646.99083.qmail@web53415.mail.yahoo.com>
	<1128323434.4340d96a7017f@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
	<200510031719.19754.ladmanj@volny.cz>
Message-ID: <1128360974.43416c0ed340e@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>

Asi tak jako ke Spideru. Neni cas a jeste se zurive ladi hodnoty soucastek.
Je to delany v Eaglu a chce to jeste trochu ucesat schema a vymyslet jak udelat
seznam soucastek pro 4 subverze aby se v tom BFU vyznalo.

> Bude k tomu takz nejaka dokumentace? Jako schema a tak? A eaglova data?
> Jakub Ladman
> Dne po 3. ??jna 2005 09:10 Seligr at sh.cvut.cz napsal(a):
> > Zdar vsem,
> > na http://laser.webpark.cz/download.html je mozno stahnout data pro
> vyrobu
> > desky plosnych spoju na RX. Osazeni krome fotodiody a pripadne BNC
> > konektoru je vyhradne SMD. Zbytek dokumentace snad dodelam behem 14dni,
> > jeste zbyva doladit hodnoty soucastek jednotlivych subverzi. Schema se
> > strikne nedrzi Clocka. Je totiz mozno osadit BNC konektory, nebo primo
> > zapajet koax ci UTP kabel nebo "booster". Vykony prvnich osazenych kousku
> > jsou konzistentni a velmi dobre. Data jsou v gerber formatu + vrtacka
> > Sieb&Mayer. V pragoboardu jsou od toho filmy s panelizaci 2*3 kusy. Pokud
> > by je nekdo chtel pouzit pro vyrobu, tak firma pozaduje muj souhlas.
> Kdyby
> > nekdo potreboval data Excellon, je mozno je vygenerovat, az prijdu na to
> > jak.
> > Spatna zprava pro ty, ktery by na tom chteli trhnout - neda se to
> strojove
> > zapajet pretavenim.
> >
> > Dik sponzorum, Petr
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ronja mailing list
> > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 





From pezis at post.cz  Mon Oct  3 19:11:58 2005
From: pezis at post.cz (pezis)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 20:11:58 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Ronja] (no subject)
Message-ID: <ab585bcf6669ff15cea43954f990a7e2@www4.mail.post.cz>

Mel bych tu na prodej dva funkcni twistery v krabickach + dva TX
Inferno(SMD) +dva RX Nebulus(SMD). Elektronika chodi bez optiky
na 4m. Vcetne tubusu, bohuzel to chce nak postelovat cocky,
nepodarilo se to rozchodit na 600m.

Bohuzel uz na to nemam cas.

V pripade zajmu piste na pezis at post.cz a nabidnete cenu.

Pazourek Petr



From clock at twibright.com  Tue Oct  4 10:20:28 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 11:20:28 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <ab585bcf6669ff15cea43954f990a7e2@www4.mail.post.cz>
References: <ab585bcf6669ff15cea43954f990a7e2@www4.mail.post.cz>
Message-ID: <20051004092028.GA19078@kestrel>

On Mon, Oct 03, 2005 at 08:11:58PM +0200, pezis wrote:
> Mel bych tu na prodej dva funkcni twistery v krabickach + dva TX
> Inferno(SMD) +dva RX Nebulus(SMD). Elektronika chodi bez optiky

Did anyone make unofficial printed boards for Inferno? Where did you
get them from?

CL<


From ladmanj at volny.cz  Tue Oct  4 12:36:14 2005
From: ladmanj at volny.cz (Jakub Ladman)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 13:36:14 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Anomalie s Twisterem
In-Reply-To: <1128300126.43407e5e9b2ee@mail.cobrik.net>
References: <1128037053.433c7abd6fd6a@mail.cobrik.net>
	<20051002192013.GA22340@kestrel.t-n-p.org>
	<1128300126.43407e5e9b2ee@mail.cobrik.net>
Message-ID: <200510041336.15093.ladmanj@volny.cz>

Zkusil bych to, co mi pomohlo na Spideru, ktery driv komunikoval dobre jen s 
nekterymi sitovkami a s nekterymi spatne.
Pridal jsem odpor 1k2 mezi +5V a spojeni vazebniho kondenzatoru a odporu co 
smeruje do invertujiciho vstupu prijimace.
Invertujici vstup se tak stane o nekolik desitek milivoltu kladnejsim nez 
neinvertujici a na jeho vystupu bude v klidu bezpecne 0.
Pri pouziti odporu 1k2 je navic zpresnena vstupni impenance z 12+39+39+12 = 
102 Ohmu na 12+39+((12+39)||1k2) = 51 + 48.9 = 99.9 Ohmu, ale to je naprosto 
nepodstatna tresnicka na dortu.
Jakub Ladman

Dne po 3. ??jna 2005 02:42 ronja at cobrik.net napsal(a):
> Tak mam dalsi poznatek ... problem se sitovkou Marvell sem sice odstranil
> pouzitim 22pF kondiku navic ale bohuzel na zminenem Twisteru i tak nebude
> asi vse uplne totozne s tim druhym co mam sestaveny nybrz sem se ted dostal
> na kolej
> (VS) kde sem mel sanci ozkouset dalsi vzorek a to nejakej docela
> inteligentni Switch 10/100 jen presne netusim co to je za znacku a mam opet
> ten samy problem ...
> Pokud si necham onen problemovy Twister v sitovce (Realtek) v PC spoj jede
> ... ikdyz obcas se stane ze nejakej paket skobrtne ale to fakt minimalne
> (sit je predevsim 100 a lita tu na ni silena zmet dat a hlavne i multicast
> na Televizni vysilani atd ... cili bych se ani nedivil) ale jak to prohodim
> neproleze mi takrka zadnej paket ikdyz Ledky na Twisterech blikaji jak maji
> vse se na venek tvari ze ty data to fakt prenasi ale neprojde takrka nic
> ... opravdu divny ... Vesmes by me to mohlo byt fuk kdyz se s tim zrovna
> netrefim do zarizeni s kterym si to nerozumi tak mi to jede bajecne ale ...
> nejak mi to neda spat a porad premyslim kde muze byt ta odlisnost ...
> jestli by se nedalo treba zkusit nekterou ze soucastek vymenit ktera by
> toto nebo podobny problem mohla mit nasvedomi ...
>
> Ne opravdu nepovolene nahrady sem nepouzil ... vse dle navodu a rozpisu
> jediny co se teda lisi je DS26LS31 a DS26LS32 a to ze mam pouzity AM26LS31
> a AM26LS32 ale to at sem se sebevic snazil tak na DSka sem vazne nenarazil
> ... Mohl by tohle byt ten problem ? (Ale pak si rikam proc jedno zarizeni
> jede a druhy dela problemy) a pak mam delsi UTP (2,5m) ktere se tedy
> chystam jiz ze zoufalstvi zkratit.
>
> Tot asi zatim vse co me napada ... za vase pripadne rady a nazory moc diky
> ...
>
> Milos
>
> > On Fri, Sep 30, 2005 at 01:37:33AM +0200, ronja at cobrik.net wrote:
> > > Zdravim,
> > >
> > > mam takovej problemek a zaroven dotazek jestli jste se uz nekdo s touto
> >
> > anomalii
> >
> > > nesetkal a netusite cim by to mohlo byt zapricineno ...
> > >
> > > Mam vyrobenej jeden kompletni spoj Ronji 2x Tx, Rx, Twister, vesmes vse
> >
> > funguje
> >
> > > jak ma Tx vs. Rx jede cca az do 2 - 2,5m vzdalenosti na koberci bez
> > > optiky. Kdyz sem vse testoval doma bylo to OK zde jsem pouzival sitove
> > > karty
> >
> > Micronet,
> >
> > > Realtek, 3com, Intell. Pote sem zarizeni prenesl ke kamaradovi kde sme
> > > realizovali propojeni Realtek (3com) a na druhe strane sitovka Marvell
> > > a nestacil sem se divit ...
> > > Kdyz sme pingovali prosel mi tak kazdej treti ctvrtej paket nekdy ani
> > > to ne
> >
> > a co
> >
> > > bylo nejzajimavejsi kdyz sme prekryli trasu Tx vs Rx (Tx vedlo z
> > > Twisteru
> >
> > co byl
> >
> > > v Realteku Rx vedlo do Twisteru smerem do Marvella) tak PC se sitovkou
> >
> > Marvell
> >
> > > zahlasilo: sitovy kabel byl odpojen ... po odsraneni prekazky ohlasilo:
> >
> > sitovy
> >
> > > kabel byl pripojen ... a tak se to dalo opakovat porad dokolecka. Pote
> > > sem
> >
> > This is probably because noise was received which plagued the network
> > card and it thought it's disconnected cable. That's OK (a byproduct of
> > Ethernet bureaucracy).
> >
> > > zkousel zamenit jednotlive moduly Tx a Rx a porad beze zmen. Zmena
> > > prisla
> >
> > po
> >
> > > zamene Twisteru ... vse se rozjelo bez nejmensiho problemu a spoj byl
> > > plne funkcni pri prohozeni twisteru nazpatek opet spoj zase trpel
> > > stejnou
> >
> > chybou.
> >
> > > Zapojeni je dle navodu Tx a Rx vzdusna konstrukce Twister na PCB jedina
> >
> > obmena
> >
> > > je trosku delsi UTP z Twistru (cca 2,5m) jinak zbytek je vesmes
> > > dopuntiku stejnej vcetne soucastek ... max jsou uzity vyslovne povolene
> > > nahrady,
> >
> > napajeni
> >
> > > 12V starsi PC zdroj popr i 2x pro kazdej twister zvlast (ale vesmes to
> > > bylo
> >
> > fuk
> >
> > > chova se to porad stejne).
> >
> > Don't you use some unallowed replacement (like putting 74HCT where 74HC
> > is not allowed or vice versa)?
> >
> > CL<
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ronja mailing list
> > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From clock at twibright.com  Tue Oct  4 12:41:24 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 13:41:24 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Ronja Wiki is down...
Message-ID: <20051004114123.GA26455@kestrel>

Because someone was exploiting TWiki to run commands on the webserver so
the administrator of the webserver disabled the TWiki.

I have gotten some e-mail with some instructions how to apply TWiki
security patch so as soon as I find time for that I'll fix it and ask
for the TWiki to be enabled again... I have already done something like
this in the past - upgrading TWiki to higher version because of security
bugs.

CL<


From clock at twibright.com  Tue Oct  4 12:50:19 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 13:50:19 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Ronja kits for developing world
In-Reply-To: <0EC586ED-1149-4BC0-A61F-3FE5757EC695@mac.com>
References: <0EC586ED-1149-4BC0-A61F-3FE5757EC695@mac.com>
Message-ID: <20051004115019.GB26455@kestrel>

On Mon, Oct 03, 2005 at 10:37:32AM +0200, Jim Forster wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I saw your presentation in London the other day.   It looks very,  
> very cool!   I was there for the Wireless Book Sprint organized by  

Thanks.

> Tomas Krag and stayed only part of Saturday.   My interest is  
> wireless and any other technology which aids Internet access in the  
> developing world.
> 
> Have you ever considered preparing kits of the electronics and  
> optics?   I think the 10mbps full duplex would be excellent for RF  

That definitely needs to be done.

> congested cities in Africa, etc., but I suspect ordering and  

Hmm maybe in Africa the human work is cheap I don't know so people would
maybe prefer there buying a cheap kit and build it themselves instead
of giving more pounds for a ready-made WiFi with unsure investment
into the future (congestion).

> obtaining parts would be challenging for someone in, say, Kampala,  
> Uganda.   Maybe kits of electronics & optical parts could be made,  
> along with printed directions for the mechanical parts.   I was in  
> Kampala earlier this year and one of the ISPs there told me great  
> stories of the capabilities of the local street-side metal workers.    
> So maybe a model of partial assembly in the west and local mechanical  
> construction would be optimal?  Or maybe you would prefer to stay on  
> the design side, and there is some other group that could undertake  
> the gathering of parts and shipment?

Someone should just invest few pounds into buing 10-20 PCB's, sell them
on the Ronja ML/Wiki, and then add parts and repeat, just bootstrap the
selling proces... It shouldn't really require more than few pounds of
investment and finding the work not boring. Maybe perfect for people who
have problem getting money.

I don't have time to do it myself I can't even time for the development,
let alone some sales activities...

> 
> Also, do you have any access to Paypal?   I would like to send a  

No I don't and I don't like their comission they take.

> small donation.   If not, I could possibly send a bank transfer, but  
> Paypal is so much more convenient that I would certainly do it  
> sooner :-)

Hmm, maybe I'll once set up Paypal when I see this - how difficult is it
and how much do they suck?

CL<


From clock at twibright.com  Tue Oct  4 14:03:52 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 15:03:52 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Tx, Rx LED mimo krabicku
In-Reply-To: <1128322713.4340d699e5125@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
References: <1128301088.4340822075488@mail.cobrik.net>
	<1128322713.4340d699e5125@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
Message-ID: <20051004130352.GD26455@kestrel>

On Mon, Oct 03, 2005 at 08:58:33AM +0200, Seligr at sh.cvut.cz wrote:
> TX dioda se necha vystrcit tak 5-10cm od krabicky. Je potreba pouzit UTP kablik

A nice way how to make massive radio jammer. Why don't you use coaxial?

CL<


From clock at twibright.com  Tue Oct  4 14:15:29 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 15:15:29 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Tx, Rx LED mimo krabicku
In-Reply-To: <1128301088.4340822075488@mail.cobrik.net>
References: <1128301088.4340822075488@mail.cobrik.net>
Message-ID: <20051004131529.GE26455@kestrel>

On Mon, Oct 03, 2005 at 02:58:08AM +0200, ronja at cobrik.net wrote:
> Zdravim,
> 
> mel bych dotaz jestli jiz nekdo z Vas nezkousel vytahnout Led v Tx modulu (HPWT
> ...) a Fotodiodu v Rx (SFH2030) mimo krabicku danych modulu treba na nejakym
> dratku (mysleno tenkem koaxialu) rekneme tak do vzdalenosti 5-10cm samozrejme
> za predpokladu dodrzeni potrebneho zapusteni diod (mysleno aby treba koukala z
> fotodiody cca 1/3 ven atd ...)

Don't do - you risk quite some problems.

> Mam docela problem vyrobit tubusy a uchytit do nich krabicky
> jednotlivych modulu

What problems do you have particularly? I would like Ronja to be as
easily buildable as possible.

> tak aby diody byly opravdu kolmo na cocku ... ale kdybych je mohl
> vytahnout alespon nejakej ten centimetr na kabliku mimo do
> samostatneho uchytu bylo by to moc fajn ...

> Cely muj dotaz tedy hlavne spociva v tom co se potom stane se signalem
> co jde na vysilaci diodu a z prijimaci diody ... utrpim tim nekde
> prilis velke ztraty ci zkresleni sinalu nebo rekneme do par centimetru
> je to prijatelny ?  (Myslim ze vcelku vysilaci diode na kterou jde

Yes it will be distorted by inductance in TX and capaticance in RX.

CL<


From clock at twibright.com  Tue Oct  4 14:24:42 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 15:24:42 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Ronja Digest, Vol 30, Issue 1
In-Reply-To: <20051002104836.GE825@elros>
References: <mailman.1.1128164401.27723.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
	<Zen-1ELpbo-0005LC-6n@heisenberg.zen.co.uk>
	<20051002104836.GE825@elros>
Message-ID: <20051004132442.GI26455@kestrel>

On Sun, Oct 02, 2005 at 12:48:36PM +0200, Ondrej Zajicek wrote:
> On Sat, Oct 01, 2005 at 11:16:59PM +0100, Gareth Coleman wrote:
> > BTW why not acetic acid based sealant?
> 
> I use acrylic acid based sealant and after some time surface of
> zinc-galvanized caps was horribly damaged.

Is that called "acrylate putty"? That shouldn't be used for Ronja
(because is unuitable as sealant).

CL<


From clock at twibright.com  Tue Oct  4 14:26:36 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 15:26:36 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Ronja website is crumbling under the hands...
Message-ID: <20051004132636.GJ26455@kestrel>

Looks like under certain amount of time dedicated, things go backwards
instead of forward ;-) Here is the bug due to which Wiki was disabled...

We'll maybe migrate to Media Wiki, TWiki doesn't make a good feeling on
me. What do you think?

CL<
----- Forwarded message from Sven Dowideit <SvenDowideit at home.org.au> -----

Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2005 00:45:37 +0200
From: Sven Dowideit <SvenDowideit at home.org.au>
To: TWiki Administrator <clock at twibright.com>
Subject: TWiki Security mailout

Dear TWiki Administrator,
I discovered using google that you run a public TWiki 
(http://twiki.twibright.com/bin/view/TWiki/TWikiPreferences)
which is exposing the TWiki.cfg file, and thought that you should be aware of
the following recent security notices:
   1 Security Alert: TWiki INCLUDE function allows  arbitrary shell command
      * http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/SecurityAlertExecuteCommandsWithInclude
   2  Security Audit: Visible Lib Directories
      * http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/SecurityAuditOnVisibleLibDir

there are a number of steps that you should consider:
   1 subscribe to TWikiAnnounceMailingList to receive security alerts
      * http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiAnnounceMailingList
   2 ensure you are running the latest update (4-Sept-2005) 
      * http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiRelease04Sep2004
   3 follow the instructions ont the SecurityAuditOnVisibleLibDir topic
      * http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/SecurityAuditOnVisibleLibDir

Cheers

Sven Dowideit
(TWiki Core team member)

----- End forwarded message -----


From clock at twibright.com  Tue Oct  4 14:28:43 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 15:28:43 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Ronja Digest, Vol 30, Issue 1
In-Reply-To: <Zen-1ELpbo-0005LC-6n@heisenberg.zen.co.uk>
References: <mailman.1.1128164401.27723.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
	<Zen-1ELpbo-0005LC-6n@heisenberg.zen.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20051004132843.GK26455@kestrel>

> But the ronja heads don't use threads do they?
> 
> BTW why not acetic acid based sealant?

I use acetic acid based silicone sealant on Ronja and it's great. But
you have to visit the head after like half a day and check for holes.
and possible seal over them again. This could save some effort.

On the other side, maybe the adhesion would be much worse because the
tape would mask the sealant out... dunno... Maybe covering with sealant
first, then applying tape, then another layer of sealant.

CL<


From clock at twibright.com  Tue Oct  4 14:30:30 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 15:30:30 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] LOL Subversion+apache2+gentoo
In-Reply-To: <200510011546.04688.radek@podgorny.cz>
References: <20050927203708.GA28257@kestrel> <7640.1128010210@www9.gmx.net>
	<200510011546.04688.radek@podgorny.cz>
Message-ID: <20051004133030.GN26455@kestrel>

On Sat, Oct 01, 2005 at 03:46:01PM +0200, Radek Podgorny wrote:
> What is the problem, exactly?

Now it's fixed. The dependencies were somehow screwed up in the gentoo.
After upgrade of gentoo it went away.

CL<
> 
> My server config (on gentoo) follows:
> 
> 
> radek at podgorny ~ $ emerge apache subversion -pv
> 
> These are the packages that I would merge, in order:
> 
> Calculating dependencies ...done!
> [ebuild   R   ] net-www/apache-2.0.54-r31  +apache2 -debug -doc -ldap 
> -mpm-leader -mpm-peruser -mpm-prefork -mpm-threadpool -mpm-worker -no-suexec 
> (-selinux) +ssl -static-modules +threads 0 kB 
> [ebuild   R   ] dev-util/subversion-1.2.3-r1  +apache2 +bash-completion 
> +berkdb -emacs -java -nls -nowebdav -perl -python +zlib 0 kB 
> 
> Total size of downloads: 0 kB
> 
> Regards...
> Radek Podgorny
> 
> 
> > gentoo, get ubuntu !
> >
> > > --- Urspr?ngliche Nachricht ---
> > > Von: Karel Kulhavy <clock at twibright.com>
> > > An: Twibright Ronja <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
> > > Betreff: [Ronja] LOL Subversion+apache2+gentoo
> > > Datum: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 22:37:08 +0200
> > >
> > > net-www/apache-2 (is blocking dev-util/subversion-1.2.3)
> > >
> > > Looks like Ronja won't be able to be developed on gentoo :)
> > >
> > > What should I kick off from Ronja? :)
> > >
> > > 1) Apache
> > > 2) Subversion
> > > 3) gentoo
> > >
> > > CL<
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Ronja mailing list
> > > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 
> -- 
> GnuPG key: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x98E56D84



> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja



From toad at amphibian.dyndns.org  Tue Oct  4 14:56:02 2005
From: toad at amphibian.dyndns.org (Matthew Toseland)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 14:56:02 +0100
Subject: [Ronja] Ronja kits for developing world
In-Reply-To: <20051004115019.GB26455@kestrel>
References: <0EC586ED-1149-4BC0-A61F-3FE5757EC695@mac.com>
	<20051004115019.GB26455@kestrel>
Message-ID: <20051004135602.GB7623@amphibian.dyndns.org>

On Tue, Oct 04, 2005 at 01:50:19PM +0200, Karel Kulhavy wrote:
> > 
> > Also, do you have any access to Paypal?   I would like to send a  
> 
> No I don't and I don't like their comission they take.

All money transfer services take commission. Including banks and Western
Union. But it's worth it if it's convenient, because you get many more
donors, and because the commission is normally <5%, as opposed to banks
which charge large amounts (proportionately) unless the amount is big.
> 
> > small donation.   If not, I could possibly send a bank transfer, but  
> > Paypal is so much more convenient that I would certainly do it  
> > sooner :-)
> 
> Hmm, maybe I'll once set up Paypal when I see this - how difficult is it
> and how much do they suck?

Paypal doesn't let you draw funds in the Czech Republic. Moneybookers
does (no, I don't work for them; I did have a problem with fax
verification once but that was a long time ago; a friend recommended
them when paypal temporarily froze our account):
http://www.moneybookers.com/

Really, in the Rich World, convenience matters. If it is conveniently
possible to donate small amounts to a Really Cool Project, people will.
Enough to add up to a useful amount of money. I would. I work fulltime
from donations to another Really Cool Project. :)

By the way, I agree with the previous poster that a kit supplier would
be cool.
> 
> CL<
-- 
Matthew J Toseland - toad at amphibian.dyndns.org
Freenet Project Official Codemonkey - http://freenetproject.org/
ICTHUS - Nothing is impossible. Our Boss says so.
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From toad at amphibian.dyndns.org  Tue Oct  4 14:50:07 2005
From: toad at amphibian.dyndns.org (Matthew Toseland)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 14:50:07 +0100
Subject: [Ronja] Slides from WSFII
In-Reply-To: <20051002152226.GA11620@kestrel.t-n-p.org>
References: <20051002152226.GA11620@kestrel.t-n-p.org>
Message-ID: <20051004135007.GA7623@amphibian.dyndns.org>

On Sun, Oct 02, 2005 at 05:22:26PM +0200, Karel Kulhavy wrote:
> Hello
> 
> Yesterday I held a talk about Ronja at WSFII. The slides are at
> http://ronja.twibright.com/about.php

Thanks! The talk was amazing. A few questions:
- You talked about a future device, the Ronja Fogtown, which would
  have 3km range and 100Mbps. This would be useful for backbones for
  community wifi networks, even in the West where labour is expensive
  and we have 802.11a(C) (2W limit, effectively no noise, ~ 25Mbps half
  duplex).
-- Is it possible to guesstimate parts and labour costs at present?
- Suppose we wanted to donate say £25/£50 (~= 1000/2000 CZK) - can you
  take donations via Moneybookers? (moneybookers.com) This looks like
  the cheapest option to me. (Bank wire or Western Union is very
  expensive unless sending large amounts). I would be happy to have
  this assigned to Fogtown, Interpolis, Lucifer or any related project
  once it is ready for release.
- One small donation won't make that much difference even considering
  the difference in incomes between the West and Eastern Europe; but
  making it more convenient for us to donate *would* IMHO make a big
  difference.
- Finally: We will probably make up some 10M Metropoli eventually for
  hack value as much as anything. You estimated 70 hours work, but much
  less with planning. We might well get a number of these built for fun
  and education, possibly with people who previously had relatively
  little tech (or hardware) skills, but how long does it take once you
  know what you are doing?
> 
> CL<
-- 
Matthew J Toseland - toad at amphibian.dyndns.org
Freenet Project Official Codemonkey - http://freenetproject.org/
ICTHUS - Nothing is impossible. Our Boss says so.
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From cd930 at centrum.cz  Tue Oct  4 15:26:26 2005
From: cd930 at centrum.cz (-=RYS=-)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 16:26:26 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Seznam linku
Message-ID: <200510041626.9515@centrum.cz>

Ahoj Karle, mimo fotek...(kam ti je mam poslat mailem? ) co potrebujes, abys mohl
nasi Zateckou Ronju dat do seznamu na:? http://ronja.advel.cz/installations.php
Budu jeste dostavovat dalsi linky, takze fotky budu delat.
Martin


------------- dal?? ??st ---------------
HTML p??loha byla odstran?na...
URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20051004/a0eb98be/attachment.html

From crush at a2j-net.com  Tue Oct  4 16:11:48 2005
From: crush at a2j-net.com (Bartosz Kolodziejczak)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 17:11:48 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Ronja KiTs and Ronja for commercial
References: <mailman.1.1128250800.3790.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
Message-ID: <005201c5c8f5$f4955fe0$e764640a@bukovina.pl>

Hi there,

I found two similar topics on the mailing list lately; the first one:

>
> Hi all,
>
> cl< what is with that utopia webring links?
> it seems to me they dont work... maybe you would want to remove them?
>
> question:
>
> is there a problem if someone is manufacturing ronja for comercial
> purposes? is one allowed to do so if he provides ronja sources?
>
> what is someone (me) have it own fso system, and manufacture it for
> comercial purposes, but uses just fork of ronja rx in his system design?
> is there any problem or licence violation if i provide sources of ronja rx
> and of ronja rx fork with this system?
>
> Thanks for answers,
>
> silvije
>
and the second one:

>Hmm maybe in Africa the human work is cheap I don't know so people would
>maybe prefer there buying a cheap kit and build it themselves instead
>of giving more pounds for a ready-made WiFi with unsure investment
>into the future (congestion).

The first one was left without any answer, but it should be answered. I'm
interested in it too. The second idea is interesting too - Clock, If you
cannot find time to produce Ronja KiTs for commercial, maybe other people
should do it. You will get more registered instalations, more donations, and
more Ronja users worldwide. Moreover some people would earn some money
making kits or ready-to-use ronja devices. Answer Silivje's question please,
and mine too.


Regards
Crush

>



From Funky at seznam.cz  Tue Oct  4 17:58:48 2005
From: Funky at seznam.cz (Funky)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 18:58:48 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Ronja] shanim HPWT-BD00-F4000
Message-ID: <6185.9341-2131-1213017003-1128445128@seznam.cz>

Ahoj lidi,

mohl by mi nekdo z vas poslat 8ks ledek HPWT-BD00-F4000 ?

pred casem jsem psal zadost clovekovi boza2 at volny.cz, ale neprisla mi zadna odpoved.
Tak chtel sem se podivat na wiki od koho dalsiho si je muzu nechat poslat, ale jak na potvoru nejde.

Dik, Funky


From clock at twibright.com  Tue Oct  4 18:00:16 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 19:00:16 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Slides from WSFII
In-Reply-To: <20051004135007.GA7623@amphibian.dyndns.org>
References: <20051002152226.GA11620@kestrel.t-n-p.org>
	<20051004135007.GA7623@amphibian.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <20051004170016.GA18547@kestrel>

On Tue, Oct 04, 2005 at 02:50:07PM +0100, Matthew Toseland wrote:
> 
> Thanks! The talk was amazing. A few questions:

Thanks

> - You talked about a future device, the Ronja Fogtown, which would
>   have 3km range and 100Mbps. This would be useful for backbones for

No it would have 10Mbps.

>   community wifi networks, even in the West where labour is expensive
>   and we have 802.11a(C) (2W limit, effectively no noise, ~ 25Mbps half
>   duplex).
> -- Is it possible to guesstimate parts and labour costs at present?

Labour costs is difficult to estimate because heavily depend on
organization. But generally don't expect significant increase in
labour intensivity for Fogtown, 100Mbps or 1Gbps model against current
design.

> - Suppose we wanted to donate say £25/£50 (~= 1000/2000 CZK) - can you
>   take donations via Moneybookers? (moneybookers.com) This looks like

Looks complicated. What am I supposed to do to get the money?

>   the cheapest option to me. (Bank wire or Western Union is very
>   expensive unless sending large amounts). I would be happy to have
>   this assigned to Fogtown, Interpolis, Lucifer or any related project
>   once it is ready for release.

Sorry this is not possible because would probably result in lots
of hanging unfinished projects. If you send donation it will be assigned
to the next project released.

> - One small donation won't make that much difference even considering
>   the difference in incomes between the West and Eastern Europe; but

Eastern Europe? I live now in Zurich, and even if I lived in Prague,
Prague is still not Eastern Europe but Central :)

>   making it more convenient for us to donate *would* IMHO make a big
>   difference.
> - Finally: We will probably make up some 10M Metropoli eventually for
>   hack value as much as anything. You estimated 70 hours work, but much
>   less with planning. We might well get a number of these built for fun

Are you from London? Would you be interested if I made kinda holidays
again and held some workshops there?

>   and education, possibly with people who previously had relatively
>   little tech (or hardware) skills, but how long does it take once you
>   know what you are doing?

Hmm like for me to populate Twister it takes lots of hours because
I never can sort out where I sticked up which component in my room ;-)

But Macros from Prague says he was able to populate Twister in one
manhour which is excellent.

> > 
> > CL<
> -- 
> Matthew J Toseland - toad at amphibian.dyndns.org
> Freenet Project Official Codemonkey - http://freenetproject.org/

Aha lol follow the black rabbit :)

CL<


From clock at twibright.com  Tue Oct  4 18:01:50 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 19:01:50 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Ronja kits for developing world
In-Reply-To: <20051004135602.GB7623@amphibian.dyndns.org>
References: <0EC586ED-1149-4BC0-A61F-3FE5757EC695@mac.com>
	<20051004115019.GB26455@kestrel>
	<20051004135602.GB7623@amphibian.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <20051004170150.GB18547@kestrel>

On Tue, Oct 04, 2005 at 02:56:02PM +0100, Matthew Toseland wrote:

> Paypal doesn't let you draw funds in the Czech Republic. Moneybookers

And Switzerland?

> does (no, I don't work for them; I did have a problem with fax
> verification once but that was a long time ago; a friend recommended
> them when paypal temporarily froze our account):
> http://www.moneybookers.com/
> 
> Really, in the Rich World, convenience matters. If it is conveniently
> possible to donate small amounts to a Really Cool Project, people will.
> Enough to add up to a useful amount of money. I would. I work fulltime
> from donations to another Really Cool Project. :)

Which one? I want to work fulltime from donations on Ronja, too :)

> 
> By the way, I agree with the previous poster that a kit supplier would
> be cool.

Tenyen, hint, hint! :)

CL<


From clock at twibright.com  Tue Oct  4 18:03:29 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 19:03:29 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Ronja KiTs and Ronja for commercial
In-Reply-To: <005201c5c8f5$f4955fe0$e764640a@bukovina.pl>
References: <mailman.1.1128250800.3790.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
	<005201c5c8f5$f4955fe0$e764640a@bukovina.pl>
Message-ID: <20051004170329.GC18547@kestrel>

> The first one was left without any answer, but it should be answered. I'm
> interested in it too. The second idea is interesting too - Clock, If you
> cannot find time to produce Ronja KiTs for commercial, maybe other people
> should do it. You will get more registered instalations, more donations, and
> more Ronja users worldwide. Moreover some people would earn some money

Yes that's exactly the idea :) I don't have particularly special skills
in selling kits, I am a developer.

CL<


From clock at twibright.com  Tue Oct  4 18:09:42 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 19:09:42 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Little bug in guide, aggregated mechanics partlist
In-Reply-To: <BAY18-DAV104A3E0C5358D6570B55CFB4920@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY18-DAV104A3E0C5358D6570B55CFB4920@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <20051004170942.GA19502@kestrel>

OK I'll fix it as soon as I migrate Arch to Subversion (should be in
couple of days).

CL<
On Mon, Sep 19, 2005 at 08:59:54PM +0200, Matej Laitl wrote:
> Hi folks (despite this is intended mainly for Clock - or somebody else who
> is allowed edit the guide),
> I've found 2 possible little and minor bugs in Ronja building guide:
> 
> 1.
> page: http://ronja.twibright.com/transmitter/material.php
> section Electronics
> part "2pcs. cable bushing 6mm inner dia [ (only for airwire)]" is listed
> twice.
> 
> 2.
> page: http://ronja.twibright.com/console/chimney/material.php
> section Nuts and bolts
> part "2pcs. thread bar M10, galvanized [...]" is listed twice.
> 
> Also, I've been doing aggregated Tetrapolis mechanics partlist (in M$ Excel,
> but I can export it to an open format), and as i buy the parts I fill in the
> prices. So when i'm finished, i can post it - IMHO it could make getting
> parts easier. (Just a note: I'm from CZ, Prague, so the prices are in CZK
> and parts are buyed in Czechia)
> 
> Matej Laitl alias strohel.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From clock at twibright.com  Tue Oct  4 18:12:20 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 19:12:20 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Anomalie s Twisterem
In-Reply-To: <1128037053.433c7abd6fd6a@mail.cobrik.net>
References: <1128037053.433c7abd6fd6a@mail.cobrik.net>
Message-ID: <20051004171220.GB19502@kestrel>

On Fri, Sep 30, 2005 at 01:37:33AM +0200, ronja at cobrik.net wrote:
> Zdravim,
> 
> mam takovej problemek a zaroven dotazek jestli jste se uz nekdo s touto anomalii
> nesetkal a netusite cim by to mohlo byt zapricineno ...
> 
> Mam vyrobenej jeden kompletni spoj Ronji 2x Tx, Rx, Twister, vesmes vse funguje
> jak ma Tx vs. Rx jede cca az do 2 - 2,5m vzdalenosti na koberci bez optiky.
> Kdyz sem vse testoval doma bylo to OK zde jsem pouzival sitove karty Micronet,
> Realtek, 3com, Intell. Pote sem zarizeni prenesl ke kamaradovi kde sme
> realizovali propojeni Realtek (3com) a na druhe strane sitovka Marvell a
> nestacil sem se divit ...
> Kdyz sme pingovali prosel mi tak kazdej treti ctvrtej paket nekdy ani to ne a co
> bylo nejzajimavejsi kdyz sme prekryli trasu Tx vs Rx (Tx vedlo z Twisteru co byl
> v Realteku Rx vedlo do Twisteru smerem do Marvella) tak PC se sitovkou Marvell
> zahlasilo: sitovy kabel byl odpojen ... po odsraneni prekazky ohlasilo: sitovy
> kabel byl pripojen ... a tak se to dalo opakovat porad dokolecka. Pote sem
> zkousel zamenit jednotlive moduly Tx a Rx a porad beze zmen. Zmena prisla po
> zamene Twisteru ... vse se rozjelo bez nejmensiho problemu a spoj byl plne
> funkcni pri prohozeni twisteru nazpatek opet spoj zase trpel stejnou chybou.

May be incorrectly crimped cable - did you crimp it yourself?

CL<


From clock at twibright.com  Tue Oct  4 18:38:59 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 19:38:59 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] bug report? and question?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0510011324440.23100@fly.srk.fer.hr>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0510011324440.23100@fly.srk.fer.hr>
Message-ID: <20051004173858.GC19502@kestrel>

On Sat, Oct 01, 2005 at 01:29:46PM +0200, Silvije wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> cl< what is with that utopia webring links?
> it seems to me they dont work... maybe you would want to remove them?

Thanks, fixed. As soon as it uploads, it will be there.

> 
> question:
> 
> is there a problem if someone is manufacturing ronja for comercial
> purposes? is one allowed to do so if he provides ronja sources?

There is no problem. He's allowed.

> 
> what is someone (me) have it own fso system, and manufacture it for
> comercial purposes, but uses just fork of ronja rx in his system design?
> is there any problem or licence violation if i provide sources of ronja rx
> and of ronja rx fork with this system?

Depends on properties of law slime :) Currently Ronja is licensed under
GPL but I consider relicensing under GFDL because a) GPL doesn't much
sense for documentation, b) We have just set up Media Wiki and will
put GFDL there as well because Wikipedia uses it on a huge project
without any apparent problems.

I think with GFDL this sort of tunnellig will be less easy, but it's
still possible. There's probably no law forbidding you to redraw the
schematic by your own hand and use it. Anyway people have covered the
development with donations so I don't care if you tunnel the license
this way :) This is exactly what the donations are for :)

CL<


From clock at twibright.com  Tue Oct  4 18:42:42 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 19:42:42 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Anomalie s Twisterem
In-Reply-To: <1128173402.433e8f5aaf26e@mail.cobrik.net>
References: <1368.2318-8544-62227451-1128064552@seznam.cz>
	<1128173402.433e8f5aaf26e@mail.cobrik.net>
Message-ID: <20051004174241.GD19502@kestrel>

On Sat, Oct 01, 2005 at 03:30:02PM +0200, ronja at cobrik.net wrote:
> Tak sem se konecne dostal k tomu zkusit ty kondiky a testnout to u kamose na te
> problemove sitovce Marvell ... kazdymu 22pF kondiku (tedy C65 a C101) sem hodil
> na zada jeste brasku 22pF a vse se zda byt OK ... Jiz jedou oba Twistery jak
> maji a dosahuju na 2m vzdalenosti Tx vs. Rx 0% packet lost a prenosove
> rychlosti neco kolem 1100 kB/s coz je vesmes predpisova hodnota (1250kB/s).
> 
> Jedine co mi ted vrta hlavou jak toto bylo mozny - asi sem mel smulu na
> soucastky nybrz sem je kupoval spolecne na oba Twistery, osazoval sem je
> spolecne tistaky mam z jedne varky a pajel sem je spolecne ... a presto ten
> jeden byl bezproblemovej od zacatku a tomuhle sem musel dohodit ty kondiky
> navic ...

Didn't you put HC instead of HCT or vice versa there where it isn't
allowed in the guide?

> A dal by me zajimalo proc prave 22pF a proc prave na tyto dve mista ... jestli
> je zatim neco vic (nejaky odvozeni) ci jen cira nahoda ze to nekdo zkusil a
> pomohlo mu to ...

It's derivced from this - happy goodnight reading :/
http://ronja.twibright.com/datasheets/surveys/hc_hct_spec_survey.sxc

I don't remember anyway how exactly I did just remarks with intermediary
calculations :/ Next time I'll do proper development notes.

I think that 22pF is that the generated impulse isn't too short to be
registered by the subsequent gate even in the worst case but am not
sure.

CL<


From clock at twibright.com  Tue Oct  4 18:47:11 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 19:47:11 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Ronja-Zatec
In-Reply-To: <200510021308.24518@centrum.cz>
References: <200510021308.24518@centrum.cz>
Message-ID: <20051004174711.GE19502@kestrel>

On Sun, Oct 02, 2005 at 01:08:18PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote:

What is the finish of the holders and consoles? Zinc bath?

CL<


From clock at twibright.com  Tue Oct  4 18:52:52 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 19:52:52 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Anomalie s Twisterem
In-Reply-To: <1128300126.43407e5e9b2ee@mail.cobrik.net>
References: <1128037053.433c7abd6fd6a@mail.cobrik.net>
	<20051002192013.GA22340@kestrel.t-n-p.org>
	<1128300126.43407e5e9b2ee@mail.cobrik.net>
Message-ID: <20051004175252.GF19502@kestrel>

On Mon, Oct 03, 2005 at 02:42:06AM +0200, ronja at cobrik.net wrote:
> Tak mam dalsi poznatek ... problem se sitovkou Marvell sem sice odstranil
> pouzitim 22pF kondiku navic ale bohuzel na zminenem Twisteru i tak nebude asi
> vse uplne totozne s tim druhym co mam sestaveny nybrz sem se ted dostal na
> kolej
> (VS) kde sem mel sanci ozkouset dalsi vzorek a to nejakej docela inteligentni
> Switch 10/100 jen presne netusim co to je za znacku a mam opet ten samy problem
> ...
> Pokud si necham onen problemovy Twister v sitovce (Realtek) v PC spoj jede ...
> ikdyz obcas se stane ze nejakej paket skobrtne ale to fakt minimalne (sit je
> predevsim 100 a lita tu na ni silena zmet dat a hlavne i multicast na Televizni
> vysilani atd ... cili bych se ani nedivil) ale jak to prohodim neproleze mi
> takrka zadnej paket ikdyz Ledky na Twisterech blikaji jak maji vse se na venek
> tvari ze ty data to fakt prenasi ale neprojde takrka nic ... opravdu divny ...
> Vesmes by me to mohlo byt fuk kdyz se s tim zrovna netrefim do zarizeni s kterym
> si to nerozumi tak mi to jede bajecne ale ... nejak mi to neda spat a porad
> premyslim kde muze byt ta odlisnost ... jestli by se nedalo treba zkusit
> nekterou ze soucastek vymenit ktera by toto nebo podobny problem mohla mit
> nasvedomi ...
> 
> Ne opravdu nepovolene nahrady sem nepouzil ... vse dle navodu a rozpisu jediny
> co se teda lisi je DS26LS31 a DS26LS32 a to ze mam pouzity AM26LS31 a AM26LS32

"Not AM26LS32!" -  http://ronja.twibright.com/twister/material.php
You are you wasting my/our time.
Replace AM26LS32 with allowed replacement and try again.

If you can't find some component please check Wiki (which doesn't run
at the moment, sorry), or ask here for people to send you one.

I think the bag with components is a real necessity.

Tenyen, hint, hint! :)

CL<


From clock at twibright.com  Tue Oct  4 18:56:22 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 19:56:22 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Unofficial SMD RX board
In-Reply-To: <1128323434.4340d96a7017f@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
References: <20051003020646.99083.qmail@web53415.mail.yahoo.com>
	<1128323434.4340d96a7017f@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
Message-ID: <20051004175622.GG19502@kestrel>

On Mon, Oct 03, 2005 at 09:10:34AM +0200, Seligr at sh.cvut.cz wrote:
> Zdar vsem,
> na http://laser.webpark.cz/download.html je mozno stahnout data pro vyrobu desky
> plosnych spoju na RX. Osazeni krome fotodiody a pripadne BNC konektoru je

So we have already 2 unofficial SMD RX boards under various nonfree
development tools (Protel, Eagle) and nothing under PCB...

CL<


From clock at twibright.com  Tue Oct  4 18:58:06 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 19:58:06 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Anomalie s Twisterem
In-Reply-To: <200510041336.15093.ladmanj@volny.cz>
References: <1128037053.433c7abd6fd6a@mail.cobrik.net>
	<20051002192013.GA22340@kestrel.t-n-p.org>
	<1128300126.43407e5e9b2ee@mail.cobrik.net>
	<200510041336.15093.ladmanj@volny.cz>
Message-ID: <20051004175806.GH19502@kestrel>

On Tue, Oct 04, 2005 at 01:36:14PM +0200, Jakub Ladman wrote:
> Zkusil bych to, co mi pomohlo na Spideru, ktery driv komunikoval dobre jen s 
> nekterymi sitovkami a s nekterymi spatne.
> Pridal jsem odpor 1k2 mezi +5V a spojeni vazebniho kondenzatoru a odporu co 
> smeruje do invertujiciho vstupu prijimace.
> Invertujici vstup se tak stane o nekolik desitek milivoltu kladnejsim nez 
> neinvertujici a na jeho vystupu bude v klidu bezpecne 0.

And a deterministic jitter will be generated and susceptibility to
random voltage spikes will be greatly increased.
Jakub, please throw this away from Spider and use only Schmitt input
receivers.

CL<


From clock at twibright.com  Tue Oct  4 19:00:03 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 20:00:03 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Seznam linku
In-Reply-To: <200510041626.9515@centrum.cz>
References: <200510041626.9515@centrum.cz>
Message-ID: <20051004180003.GA3138@kestrel>

On Tue, Oct 04, 2005 at 04:26:26PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote:
> Ahoj Karle, mimo fotek...(kam ti je mam poslat mailem? ) co
> potrebujes, abys mohl

Gratuluju k fcni Ronje.

clock at twibright.com

Uz nic, to povidani k tomu jsem si napsal do souboru.

CL<


From clock at twibright.com  Tue Oct  4 19:01:34 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 20:01:34 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] shanim HPWT-BD00-F4000
In-Reply-To: <6185.9341-2131-1213017003-1128445128@seznam.cz>
References: <6185.9341-2131-1213017003-1128445128@seznam.cz>
Message-ID: <20051004180134.GB3138@kestrel>

On Tue, Oct 04, 2005 at 06:58:48PM +0200, Funky wrote:
> Ahoj lidi,
> 
> mohl by mi nekdo z vas poslat 8ks ledek HPWT-BD00-F4000 ?
> 
> pred casem jsem psal zadost clovekovi boza2 at volny.cz, ale neprisla mi
> zadna odpoved.

"A time ago I sent an email to boza2 at volny.cz for HPWT-BD00-F4000 but
I didn't get a reply..."

??? I got 20 pieces from him by post, he definitely isn't dead :)

Tenyen, hint, hint :)

CL<


From ladmanj at volny.cz  Tue Oct  4 19:12:45 2005
From: ladmanj at volny.cz (Jakub Ladman)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 20:12:45 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Anomalie s Twisterem
In-Reply-To: <20051004175806.GH19502@kestrel>
References: <1128037053.433c7abd6fd6a@mail.cobrik.net>
	<200510041336.15093.ladmanj@volny.cz>
	<20051004175806.GH19502@kestrel>
Message-ID: <200510042012.45784.ladmanj@volny.cz>

>
> And a deterministic jitter will be generated and susceptibility to
> random voltage spikes will be greatly increased.
> Jakub, please throw this away from Spider and use only Schmitt input
> receivers.
pokud v?m, tak ty pou??v?? p?ij?ma?, kter? m? pull-up a pull-down rezistory 
integrovan? v sob?


From krepa at seznam.cz  Tue Oct  4 20:01:20 2005
From: krepa at seznam.cz (Pavel Krejci)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 21:01:20 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Unofficial SMD RX board
In-Reply-To: <20051004175622.GG19502@kestrel>
References: <20051003020646.99083.qmail@web53415.mail.yahoo.com>	<1128323434.4340d96a7017f@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
	<20051004175622.GG19502@kestrel>
Message-ID: <4342D180.4010903@seznam.cz>

I know it is hard life, unofficial first version SMD/TH "new revolter" 
is done in orcad (waiting for PCBs prom printed)... I do not have enoug 
patience to go through PCB user not friendly interface. Sorry.

krepa

Karel Kulhavy wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 03, 2005 at 09:10:34AM +0200, Seligr at sh.cvut.cz wrote:
> 
>>Zdar vsem,
>>na http://laser.webpark.cz/download.html je mozno stahnout data pro vyrobu desky
>>plosnych spoju na RX. Osazeni krome fotodiody a pripadne BNC konektoru je
> 
> 
> So we have already 2 unofficial SMD RX boards under various nonfree
> development tools (Protel, Eagle) and nothing under PCB...
> 
> CL<
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 



From ronja at cobrik.net  Tue Oct  4 20:49:14 2005
From: ronja at cobrik.net (ronja@cobrik.net)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 21:49:14 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Anomalie s Twisterem
In-Reply-To: <200510041336.15093.ladmanj@volny.cz>
References: <1128037053.433c7abd6fd6a@mail.cobrik.net>
	<20051002192013.GA22340@kestrel.t-n-p.org>
	<1128300126.43407e5e9b2ee@mail.cobrik.net>
	<200510041336.15093.ladmanj@volny.cz>
Message-ID: <1128455354.4342dcba74e66@mail.cobrik.net>

Tak sem zkusil i ten odpor a nic ... co je horsi ze sem zjistil co tomu pomuze
(Twisteru aby fungoval) jen nevim jak to opravit ... kdyz sem promeroval vse
mozne co me napadlo ... dosel sem az k 11.pinu obvodu AM26LS32 tedy obvod s
oznacenim U62 dokonce merici misto s oznacenim P52 a kdyz sem meril napeti (no
uz ani nevim jak me to napadlo stejne sem nic rozumnyho nezmeril nybrz to byl
obyc multimetr a bohuzel osciloskop nemam - asi ze zoufalstvi) a jeden merici
hrot sem mel na tomto miste a druhy proti zemi twister zacal bezvadne fungovat
... nevypadne ani paket a bezi to vse bez problemu ... jak dam jeden z hrotu
pryc je tu opet muj problem (neprojde skoro zadny paket) ...

Takze ted premyslim nad tim co ten multimetr s tim signalem tam vlastne udelal
(skoro mam pocit ze z toho U62 z vystupu toho operaku mi leze nejakej zarusenej
paskvil s kterym si zbytek zapojeni neporadi a me se ho tim multimetrem podari
nejak pozmenit do prijatelny formy) ... vzhledem k tomu ze byl preplej na
mereni napeti musel mit vysokej vnitrni odpor a asi by mohl i docela dobre
simulovat kapacitu a merici hroty mozna indukcnost ... no proste fajn kombinace
...

Nenapada nekoho neco co s tim ? Mimo toho ze bych zvetsil krabicku a vestavel
multimetr natvrdo do Twistera :-))) ci to nekam zahodil a postavil novej ?

Diky za odpovedi

Milos

> Zkusil bych to, co mi pomohlo na Spideru, ktery driv komunikoval dobre jen s
> nekterymi sitovkami a s nekterymi spatne.
> Pridal jsem odpor 1k2 mezi +5V a spojeni vazebniho kondenzatoru a odporu co
> smeruje do invertujiciho vstupu prijimace.
> Invertujici vstup se tak stane o nekolik desitek milivoltu kladnejsim nez
> neinvertujici a na jeho vystupu bude v klidu bezpecne 0.
> Pri pouziti odporu 1k2 je navic zpresnena vstupni impenance z 12+39+39+12 =
> 102 Ohmu na 12+39+((12+39)||1k2) = 51 + 48.9 = 99.9 Ohmu, ale to je naprosto
> nepodstatna tresnicka na dortu.
> Jakub Ladman
>
> Dne po 3. ??jna 2005 02:42 ronja at cobrik.net napsal(a):
> > Tak mam dalsi poznatek ... problem se sitovkou Marvell sem sice odstranil
> > pouzitim 22pF kondiku navic ale bohuzel na zminenem Twisteru i tak nebude
> > asi vse uplne totozne s tim druhym co mam sestaveny nybrz sem se ted dostal
> > na kolej
> > (VS) kde sem mel sanci ozkouset dalsi vzorek a to nejakej docela
> > inteligentni Switch 10/100 jen presne netusim co to je za znacku a mam opet
> > ten samy problem ...
> > Pokud si necham onen problemovy Twister v sitovce (Realtek) v PC spoj jede
> > ... ikdyz obcas se stane ze nejakej paket skobrtne ale to fakt minimalne
> > (sit je predevsim 100 a lita tu na ni silena zmet dat a hlavne i multicast
> > na Televizni vysilani atd ... cili bych se ani nedivil) ale jak to prohodim
> > neproleze mi takrka zadnej paket ikdyz Ledky na Twisterech blikaji jak maji
> > vse se na venek tvari ze ty data to fakt prenasi ale neprojde takrka nic
> > ... opravdu divny ... Vesmes by me to mohlo byt fuk kdyz se s tim zrovna
> > netrefim do zarizeni s kterym si to nerozumi tak mi to jede bajecne ale ...
> > nejak mi to neda spat a porad premyslim kde muze byt ta odlisnost ...
> > jestli by se nedalo treba zkusit nekterou ze soucastek vymenit ktera by
> > toto nebo podobny problem mohla mit nasvedomi ...
> >
> > Ne opravdu nepovolene nahrady sem nepouzil ... vse dle navodu a rozpisu
> > jediny co se teda lisi je DS26LS31 a DS26LS32 a to ze mam pouzity AM26LS31
> > a AM26LS32 ale to at sem se sebevic snazil tak na DSka sem vazne nenarazil
> > ... Mohl by tohle byt ten problem ? (Ale pak si rikam proc jedno zarizeni
> > jede a druhy dela problemy) a pak mam delsi UTP (2,5m) ktere se tedy
> > chystam jiz ze zoufalstvi zkratit.
> >
> > Tot asi zatim vse co me napada ... za vase pripadne rady a nazory moc diky
> > ...
> >
> > Milos
> >
> > > On Fri, Sep 30, 2005 at 01:37:33AM +0200, ronja at cobrik.net wrote:
> > > > Zdravim,
> > > >
> > > > mam takovej problemek a zaroven dotazek jestli jste se uz nekdo s touto
> > >
> > > anomalii
> > >
> > > > nesetkal a netusite cim by to mohlo byt zapricineno ...
> > > >
> > > > Mam vyrobenej jeden kompletni spoj Ronji 2x Tx, Rx, Twister, vesmes vse
> > >
> > > funguje
> > >
> > > > jak ma Tx vs. Rx jede cca az do 2 - 2,5m vzdalenosti na koberci bez
> > > > optiky. Kdyz sem vse testoval doma bylo to OK zde jsem pouzival sitove
> > > > karty
> > >
> > > Micronet,
> > >
> > > > Realtek, 3com, Intell. Pote sem zarizeni prenesl ke kamaradovi kde sme
> > > > realizovali propojeni Realtek (3com) a na druhe strane sitovka Marvell
> > > > a nestacil sem se divit ...
> > > > Kdyz sme pingovali prosel mi tak kazdej treti ctvrtej paket nekdy ani
> > > > to ne
> > >
> > > a co
> > >
> > > > bylo nejzajimavejsi kdyz sme prekryli trasu Tx vs Rx (Tx vedlo z
> > > > Twisteru
> > >
> > > co byl
> > >
> > > > v Realteku Rx vedlo do Twisteru smerem do Marvella) tak PC se sitovkou
> > >
> > > Marvell
> > >
> > > > zahlasilo: sitovy kabel byl odpojen ... po odsraneni prekazky ohlasilo:
> > >
> > > sitovy
> > >
> > > > kabel byl pripojen ... a tak se to dalo opakovat porad dokolecka. Pote
> > > > sem
> > >
> > > This is probably because noise was received which plagued the network
> > > card and it thought it's disconnected cable. That's OK (a byproduct of
> > > Ethernet bureaucracy).
> > >
> > > > zkousel zamenit jednotlive moduly Tx a Rx a porad beze zmen. Zmena
> > > > prisla
> > >
> > > po
> > >
> > > > zamene Twisteru ... vse se rozjelo bez nejmensiho problemu a spoj byl
> > > > plne funkcni pri prohozeni twisteru nazpatek opet spoj zase trpel
> > > > stejnou
> > >
> > > chybou.
> > >
> > > > Zapojeni je dle navodu Tx a Rx vzdusna konstrukce Twister na PCB jedina
> > >
> > > obmena
> > >
> > > > je trosku delsi UTP z Twistru (cca 2,5m) jinak zbytek je vesmes
> > > > dopuntiku stejnej vcetne soucastek ... max jsou uzity vyslovne povolene
> > > > nahrady,
> > >
> > > napajeni
> > >
> > > > 12V starsi PC zdroj popr i 2x pro kazdej twister zvlast (ale vesmes to
> > > > bylo
> > >
> > > fuk
> > >
> > > > chova se to porad stejne).
> > >
> > > Don't you use some unallowed replacement (like putting 74HCT where 74HC
> > > is not allowed or vice versa)?
> > >
> > > CL<
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Ronja mailing list
> > > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ronja mailing list
> > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>





From krepa at seznam.cz  Tue Oct  4 20:57:12 2005
From: krepa at seznam.cz (Pavel Krejci)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 21:57:12 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Anomalie s Twisterem
In-Reply-To: <1128455354.4342dcba74e66@mail.cobrik.net>
References: <1128037053.433c7abd6fd6a@mail.cobrik.net>	<20051002192013.GA22340@kestrel.t-n-p.org>	<1128300126.43407e5e9b2ee@mail.cobrik.net>	<200510041336.15093.ladmanj@volny.cz>
	<1128455354.4342dcba74e66@mail.cobrik.net>
Message-ID: <4342DE98.3000205@seznam.cz>

Ach jo.. lidi ctete...

cituji clocka:

"Not AM26LS32!" -  http://ronja.twibright.com/twister/material.php
You are you wasting my/our time.
Replace AM26LS32 with allowed replacement and try again.

"AM26LS32 NE!" - http://ronja.twibright.com/twister/material.php
Maris muj/tvuj cas.
Nahrad AM26LS32 povolenou nahradou a zkus znova

konec citace


ronja at cobrik.net wrote:

> Tak sem zkusil i ten odpor a nic ... co je horsi ze sem zjistil co tomu pomuze
> (Twisteru aby fungoval) jen nevim jak to opravit ... kdyz sem promeroval vse
> mozne co me napadlo ... dosel sem az k 11.pinu obvodu AM26LS32 tedy obvod s
> oznacenim U62 dokonce merici misto s oznacenim P52 a kdyz sem meril napeti (no
> uz ani nevim jak me to napadlo stejne sem nic rozumnyho nezmeril nybrz to byl
> obyc multimetr a bohuzel osciloskop nemam - asi ze zoufalstvi) a jeden merici
> hrot sem mel na tomto miste a druhy proti zemi twister zacal bezvadne fungovat
> ... nevypadne ani paket a bezi to vse bez problemu ... jak dam jeden z hrotu
> pryc je tu opet muj problem (neprojde skoro zadny paket) ...
> 
> Takze ted premyslim nad tim co ten multimetr s tim signalem tam vlastne udelal
> (skoro mam pocit ze z toho U62 z vystupu toho operaku mi leze nejakej zarusenej
> paskvil s kterym si zbytek zapojeni neporadi a me se ho tim multimetrem podari
> nejak pozmenit do prijatelny formy) ... vzhledem k tomu ze byl preplej na
> mereni napeti musel mit vysokej vnitrni odpor a asi by mohl i docela dobre
> simulovat kapacitu a merici hroty mozna indukcnost ... no proste fajn kombinace
> ...
> 
> Nenapada nekoho neco co s tim ? Mimo toho ze bych zvetsil krabicku a vestavel
> multimetr natvrdo do Twistera :-))) ci to nekam zahodil a postavil novej ?
> 
> Diky za odpovedi
> 
> Milos

> 



From ronja at cobrik.net  Tue Oct  4 21:41:25 2005
From: ronja at cobrik.net (ronja@cobrik.net)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 22:41:25 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Anomalie s Twisterem
In-Reply-To: <4342DE98.3000205@seznam.cz>
References: <1128037053.433c7abd6fd6a@mail.cobrik.net>
	<20051002192013.GA22340@kestrel.t-n-p.org>
	<1128300126.43407e5e9b2ee@mail.cobrik.net>
	<200510041336.15093.ladmanj@volny.cz>
	<1128455354.4342dcba74e66@mail.cobrik.net> <4342DE98.3000205@seznam.cz>
Message-ID: <20051004224125.mldi9knq4g04ko44@mail.cobrik.net>

Uff tak se omlouvam ze se nebyl konkretni ... ale mam nejakou zajimavou 
verzi a
to AM26LS32ACN a AM26LS31CN ... co sem koukal tak N by melo byt oznaceni
pouzdra ... cili to by snad vadit nemelo (?) U ty AM26LS32 to Acko je 
ale vsude
mam jeste C a o tom se uz Clock nezminuje ani jako povolenou nahradu ani jako
zakazanou ... Tak nevim ... Nejaky nazor na tuto divnou mutaci AMka ?

Diky

Milos

> Ach jo.. lidi ctete...
>
> cituji clocka:
>
> "Not AM26LS32!" -  http://ronja.twibright.com/twister/material.php
> You are you wasting my/our time.
> Replace AM26LS32 with allowed replacement and try again.
>
> "AM26LS32 NE!" - http://ronja.twibright.com/twister/material.php
> Maris muj/tvuj cas.
> Nahrad AM26LS32 povolenou nahradou a zkus znova
>
> konec citace
>
>
> ronja at cobrik.net wrote:
>
>> Tak sem zkusil i ten odpor a nic ... co je horsi ze sem zjistil co 
>> tomu pomuze
>> (Twisteru aby fungoval) jen nevim jak to opravit ... kdyz sem promeroval vse
>> mozne co me napadlo ... dosel sem az k 11.pinu obvodu AM26LS32 tedy obvod s
>> oznacenim U62 dokonce merici misto s oznacenim P52 a kdyz sem meril 
>> napeti (no
>> uz ani nevim jak me to napadlo stejne sem nic rozumnyho nezmeril 
>> nybrz to byl
>> obyc multimetr a bohuzel osciloskop nemam - asi ze zoufalstvi) a 
>> jeden merici
>> hrot sem mel na tomto miste a druhy proti zemi twister zacal 
>> bezvadne fungovat
>> ... nevypadne ani paket a bezi to vse bez problemu ... jak dam jeden z hrotu
>> pryc je tu opet muj problem (neprojde skoro zadny paket) ...
>>
>> Takze ted premyslim nad tim co ten multimetr s tim signalem tam 
>> vlastne udelal
>> (skoro mam pocit ze z toho U62 z vystupu toho operaku mi leze 
>> nejakej zarusenej
>> paskvil s kterym si zbytek zapojeni neporadi a me se ho tim 
>> multimetrem podari
>> nejak pozmenit do prijatelny formy) ... vzhledem k tomu ze byl preplej na
>> mereni napeti musel mit vysokej vnitrni odpor a asi by mohl i docela dobre
>> simulovat kapacitu a merici hroty mozna indukcnost ... no proste 
>> fajn kombinace
>> ...
>>
>> Nenapada nekoho neco co s tim ? Mimo toho ze bych zvetsil krabicku a 
>> vestavel
>> multimetr natvrdo do Twistera :-))) ci to nekam zahodil a postavil novej ?
>>
>> Diky za odpovedi
>>
>> Milos
>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>



----------------------------------------------------------------
This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.




From clock at twibright.com  Tue Oct  4 21:33:08 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 22:33:08 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Anomalie s Twisterem
In-Reply-To: <200510042012.45784.ladmanj@volny.cz>
References: <1128037053.433c7abd6fd6a@mail.cobrik.net>
	<200510041336.15093.ladmanj@volny.cz>
	<20051004175806.GH19502@kestrel>
	<200510042012.45784.ladmanj@volny.cz>
Message-ID: <20051004203308.GA18688@kestrel>

On Tue, Oct 04, 2005 at 08:12:45PM +0200, Jakub Ladman wrote:
> >
> > And a deterministic jitter will be generated and susceptibility to
> > random voltage spikes will be greatly increased.
> > Jakub, please throw this away from Spider and use only Schmitt input
> > receivers.
> pokud v?m, tak ty pou??v?? p?ij?ma?, kter? m? pull-up a pull-down rezistory 
> integrovan? v sob?

But this is something different. AFAIK it doesn't have any bias.

CL<


From toad at amphibian.dyndns.org  Wed Oct  5 01:40:58 2005
From: toad at amphibian.dyndns.org (Matthew Toseland)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 01:40:58 +0100
Subject: [Ronja] Ronja kits for developing world
In-Reply-To: <20051004170150.GB18547@kestrel>
References: <0EC586ED-1149-4BC0-A61F-3FE5757EC695@mac.com>
	<20051004115019.GB26455@kestrel>
	<20051004135602.GB7623@amphibian.dyndns.org>
	<20051004170150.GB18547@kestrel>
Message-ID: <20051005004058.GB20736@amphibian.dyndns.org>

On Tue, Oct 04, 2005 at 07:01:50PM +0200, Karel Kulhavy wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 04, 2005 at 02:56:02PM +0100, Matthew Toseland wrote:
> 
> > Paypal doesn't let you draw funds in the Czech Republic. Moneybookers
> 
> And Switzerland?

Good question. Obviously paypal would be ideal. And the answer is...
yes. https://www.paypal.com/ch/
> 
> > does (no, I don't work for them; I did have a problem with fax
> > verification once but that was a long time ago; a friend recommended
> > them when paypal temporarily froze our account):
> > http://www.moneybookers.com/

Scratch that - if you can use paypal, use paypal. People know it, and
therefore trust it.
> > 
> > Really, in the Rich World, convenience matters. If it is conveniently
> > possible to donate small amounts to a Really Cool Project, people will.
> > Enough to add up to a useful amount of money. I would. I work fulltime
> > from donations to another Really Cool Project. :)
> 
> Which one? I want to work fulltime from donations on Ronja, too :)

Freenet. :)
> 
> > 
> > By the way, I agree with the previous poster that a kit supplier would
> > be cool.
> 
> Tenyen, hint, hint! :)

;)
> 
> CL<
-- 
Matthew J Toseland - toad at amphibian.dyndns.org
Freenet Project Official Codemonkey - http://freenetproject.org/
ICTHUS - Nothing is impossible. Our Boss says so.
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From toad at amphibian.dyndns.org  Wed Oct  5 01:38:04 2005
From: toad at amphibian.dyndns.org (Matthew Toseland)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 01:38:04 +0100
Subject: [Ronja] Slides from WSFII
In-Reply-To: <20051004170016.GA18547@kestrel>
References: <20051002152226.GA11620@kestrel.t-n-p.org>
	<20051004135007.GA7623@amphibian.dyndns.org>
	<20051004170016.GA18547@kestrel>
Message-ID: <20051005003804.GA20736@amphibian.dyndns.org>

On Tue, Oct 04, 2005 at 07:00:16PM +0200, Karel Kulhavy wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 04, 2005 at 02:50:07PM +0100, Matthew Toseland wrote:
> > 
> > Thanks! The talk was amazing. A few questions:
> 
> Thanks
> 
> > - You talked about a future device, the Ronja Fogtown, which would
> >   have 3km range and 100Mbps. This would be useful for backbones for
> 
> No it would have 10Mbps.

Ah, okay. I misunderstood the slides. So Fogtown is simply a bigger
light bulb and better optics, and possibly a different color. The longer
range will be useful. Are future 100Mbps models likely to be exclusively
laser based?
> 
> >   community wifi networks, even in the West where labour is expensive
> >   and we have 802.11a(C) (2W limit, effectively no noise, ~ 25Mbps half
> >   duplex).
> > -- Is it possible to guesstimate parts and labour costs at present?
> 
> Labour costs is difficult to estimate because heavily depend on
> organization. But generally don't expect significant increase in
> labour intensivity for Fogtown, 100Mbps or 1Gbps model against current
> design.

Cool.
> 
> > - Suppose we wanted to donate say ?25/?50 (~= 1000/2000 CZK) - can you
> >   take donations via Moneybookers? (moneybookers.com) This looks like
> 
> Looks complicated. What am I supposed to do to get the money?

Create an account. Add a bank account to withdraw to. You can then
extract funds for 1.80 EUR each time. Once you know it works, link to it
on your website.
> 
> >   the cheapest option to me. (Bank wire or Western Union is very
> >   expensive unless sending large amounts). I would be happy to have
> >   this assigned to Fogtown, Interpolis, Lucifer or any related project
> >   once it is ready for release.
> 
> Sorry this is not possible because would probably result in lots
> of hanging unfinished projects. If you send donation it will be assigned
> to the next project released.

Fair enough. Which will likely be either Trinitrack or Lucifer? The
former would be a thing you attach to an actual Ronja to align it (for
easy long range aiming), possibly quite expensive, and the latter a
component of long-range laser based links? I'd be happy to contribute
£25; I might be able to raise a little more from a few friends in
Bristol Wireless.
> 
> > - One small donation won't make that much difference even considering
> >   the difference in incomes between the West and Eastern Europe; but
> 
> Eastern Europe? I live now in Zurich, and even if I lived in Prague,
> Prague is still not Eastern Europe but Central :)

Cool. Sorry, half of everything related to Ronja has always been in what
I had for some reason assumed to be czech... Prague is eastern EU though
;). I suppose eastern europe as such is belarus, ukraine, russia etc.
> 
> >   making it more convenient for us to donate *would* IMHO make a big
> >   difference.
> > - Finally: We will probably make up some 10M Metropoli eventually for
> >   hack value as much as anything. You estimated 70 hours work, but much
> >   less with planning. We might well get a number of these built for fun
> 
> Are you from London? Would you be interested if I made kinda holidays
> again and held some workshops there?

Bristol. I can come down for very little cost though. Will forward your
offer.
> 
> >   and education, possibly with people who previously had relatively
> >   little tech (or hardware) skills, but how long does it take once you
> >   know what you are doing?
> 
> Hmm like for me to populate Twister it takes lots of hours because
> I never can sort out where I sticked up which component in my room ;-)

:)
> 
> But Macros from Prague says he was able to populate Twister in one
> manhour which is excellent.

COOL!
> 
> > > 
> > > CL<
> 
> Aha lol follow the black rabbit :)

Yay, he remembered me! :) Some combination of laziness and fear of
soldering probably prevented us from interacting more at WSFII. :)

We (Bristol Wireless) passed a motion to build a Ronja in today's
business meeting; people seem enthusiastic. If we can do it in two hours
with experience then it's a very viable alternative to 802.11a even
as-is, and we have many places we can put it. Obviously Ronja Interpolis
100M would be ideal for backbone links in the long term.
> 
> CL<
-- 
Matthew J Toseland - toad at amphibian.dyndns.org
Freenet Project Official Codemonkey - http://freenetproject.org/
ICTHUS - Nothing is impossible. Our Boss says so.
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From clock at twibright.com  Wed Oct  5 08:18:57 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 09:18:57 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Ronja at WSFII London: audio, photos, and slides
Message-ID: <20051005071857.GA22392@kestrel>

http://ronja.twibright.com/news.php

CL<


From clock at twibright.com  Wed Oct  5 08:20:30 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 09:20:30 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Ronja kits for developing world
In-Reply-To: <C5CC5D1E-0618-488D-AD95-176CF2CA02F5@mac.com>
References: <0EC586ED-1149-4BC0-A61F-3FE5757EC695@mac.com>
	<20051004115019.GB26455@kestrel>
	<C5CC5D1E-0618-488D-AD95-176CF2CA02F5@mac.com>
Message-ID: <20051005072030.GB22392@kestrel>

On Wed, Oct 05, 2005 at 06:10:26AM +0200, Jim Forster wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> >Hmm maybe in Africa the human work is cheap I don't know so people  
> >would
> >maybe prefer there buying a cheap kit and build it themselves instead
> >of giving more pounds for a ready-made WiFi with unsure investment
> >into the future (congestion).
> 
> Yes, work is cheap but electronic assembly skills are not so  
> common.   I know people that could probably take already stuffed,  

People without electronic assembly skills have built a Ronja device that
worked on the first try successfully so that's not an issue here.

How to do the electronics assembly is described in the Ronja guide.

CL<


From clock at twibright.com  Wed Oct  5 09:32:17 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 10:32:17 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Little bug in guide, aggregated mechanics partlist
In-Reply-To: <BAY18-DAV104A3E0C5358D6570B55CFB4920@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY18-DAV104A3E0C5358D6570B55CFB4920@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <20051005083216.GA23674@kestrel>

On Mon, Sep 19, 2005 at 08:59:54PM +0200, Matej Laitl wrote:
> Hi folks (despite this is intended mainly for Clock - or somebody else who
> is allowed edit the guide),
> I've found 2 possible little and minor bugs in Ronja building guide:

Thanks, fixed.

> 
> 1.
> page: http://ronja.twibright.com/transmitter/material.php
> section Electronics
> part "2pcs. cable bushing 6mm inner dia [ (only for airwire)]" is listed
> twice.
> 
> 2.
> page: http://ronja.twibright.com/console/chimney/material.php
> section Nuts and bolts
> part "2pcs. thread bar M10, galvanized [...]" is listed twice.
> 
> Also, I've been doing aggregated Tetrapolis mechanics partlist (in M$ Excel,
> but I can export it to an open format), and as i buy the parts I fill in the
> prices. So when i'm finished, i can post it - IMHO it could make getting
> parts easier. (Just a note: I'm from CZ, Prague, so the prices are in CZK
> and parts are buyed in Czechia)

Wow.

CL<


From lucasvo at gmx.ch  Tue Oct  4 21:29:26 2005
From: lucasvo at gmx.ch (Lucas Vogelsang)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 22:29:26 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Ronja KiTs and Ronja for commercial
In-Reply-To: <005201c5c8f5$f4955fe0$e764640a@bukovina.pl>
References: <mailman.1.1128250800.3790.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
	<005201c5c8f5$f4955fe0$e764640a@bukovina.pl>
Message-ID: <1128457766.7911.21.camel@localhost.localdomain>

Hi,

There is really going something on...

I would do it... but I have thought about it and I have several
problems:

1. I am still at school, and I do not have that much time, I need
someone to help me. 

	Solution: Find some partners, mail me if you would want to

2. I am not allowed to have a credit card -> I can't use moneybookers
nor paypal.

	Solution: Find a reliable partner wich is at least 18

3. I live in CH, where work is unaffordable, for e.g. etching pcb,
populate pcb etc.

	Solution: Find a partner/company outside CH who would do it for me.

4. I can't invest that much.

	Solution: Find some customers who will say that they will buy some
goods for sure.

Ronja Parts:
  * PCB of Twister, RX, TX
  * Parts for Twister, RX, TX(smd and non-smd)
  * Populated Twister, RX, TX
  * Lenses
  * Plugs and other exotic mechanical parts
  * Powersupply
what else?

Other things I thought one could sell:
  * Tools as a soldering iron
  * Ronja Mirror on CD
  * Ronja Guide on Paper
  * Development Contribution(financial contribution which will be
redirected to ronja project)
  * Maybe T-Shirts
what else?

For saving transportation costs I have thought one could have some local
distributors, for e.g. Jakub Horky in CZ could deliver to CZ. I could
deliver to CH and West-Europe. If anybody lives in America or India or
Affrica, and would like to help me, tell me.

Why use local distributors:
1. Money transfer is much cheaper: e.g. 5 people send money to local
distributor instead of direct to me-> only 1 time international money
transfer fee.
2. Shipping: Local distributor gets one airmail package instead of 5
people paying international shipping fee. 

If we can't make it like this it wont work because shipping and money
transfer gets to expansive.

If you are willing to help me or even if you would buy something from
online shop, tell me.

Lucas

On Tue, 2005-10-04 at 17:11 +0200, Bartosz Kolodziejczak wrote:
> Hi there,
> 
> I found two similar topics on the mailing list lately; the first one:
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > cl< what is with that utopia webring links?
> > it seems to me they dont work... maybe you would want to remove them?
> >
> > question:
> >
> > is there a problem if someone is manufacturing ronja for comercial
> > purposes? is one allowed to do so if he provides ronja sources?
> >
> > what is someone (me) have it own fso system, and manufacture it for
> > comercial purposes, but uses just fork of ronja rx in his system design?
> > is there any problem or licence violation if i provide sources of ronja rx
> > and of ronja rx fork with this system?
> >
> > Thanks for answers,
> >
> > silvije
> >
> and the second one:
> 
> >Hmm maybe in Africa the human work is cheap I don't know so people would
> >maybe prefer there buying a cheap kit and build it themselves instead
> >of giving more pounds for a ready-made WiFi with unsure investment
> >into the future (congestion).
>
> The first one was left without any answer, but it should be answered. I'm
> interested in it too. The second idea is interesting too - Clock, If you
> cannot find time to produce Ronja KiTs for commercial, maybe other people
> should do it. You will get more registered instalations, more donations, and
> more Ronja users worldwide. Moreover some people would earn some money
> making kits or ready-to-use ronja devices. Answer Silivje's question please,
> and mine too.
> 
> 
> Regards
> Crush
> 
> >
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 



From lucasvo at gmx.ch  Tue Oct  4 21:32:39 2005
From: lucasvo at gmx.ch (Lucas Vogelsang)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 22:32:39 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Ronja KiTs and Ronja for commercial
In-Reply-To: <20051004170329.GC18547@kestrel>
References: <mailman.1.1128250800.3790.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
	<005201c5c8f5$f4955fe0$e764640a@bukovina.pl>
	<20051004170329.GC18547@kestrel>
Message-ID: <1128457959.7911.25.camel@localhost.localdomain>

On Tue, 2005-10-04 at 19:03 +0200, Karel Kulhavy wrote:
> > The first one was left without any answer, but it should be answered. I'm
> > interested in it too. The second idea is interesting too - Clock, If you
> > cannot find time to produce Ronja KiTs for commercial, maybe other people
> > should do it. You will get more registered instalations, more donations, and
> > more Ronja users worldwide. Moreover some people would earn some money
> 

the problem is anybody is talking about it and says that some body else
should do it, but are afraid(or sth. else) of doing it by them self. If
one would do it together it would work. 

> Yes that's exactly the idea :) I don't have particularly special skills
> in selling kits, I am a developer.
> 
that is true :D
> CL

Lucas



From lucasvo at gmx.ch  Wed Oct  5 11:23:46 2005
From: lucasvo at gmx.ch (Lucas Vogelsang)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 12:23:46 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] ronja website under GNU FDL or Creative Commons Licence
Message-ID: <1128507826.7911.61.camel@localhost.localdomain>

hi,

clock came up with the idea of licensing the ronja website under GNU
FDL. What do you think, which one should one take, ccl or gfdl? Do you
have any propositions ?

lucas 



From clock at twibright.com  Wed Oct  5 14:59:59 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 15:59:59 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Anomalie s Twisterem
In-Reply-To: <1128455354.4342dcba74e66@mail.cobrik.net>
References: <1128037053.433c7abd6fd6a@mail.cobrik.net>
	<20051002192013.GA22340@kestrel.t-n-p.org>
	<1128300126.43407e5e9b2ee@mail.cobrik.net>
	<200510041336.15093.ladmanj@volny.cz>
	<1128455354.4342dcba74e66@mail.cobrik.net>
Message-ID: <20051005135959.GA18730@kestrel>

On Tue, Oct 04, 2005 at 09:49:14PM +0200, ronja at cobrik.net wrote:
> Tak sem zkusil i ten odpor a nic ... co je horsi ze sem zjistil co tomu pomuze
> (Twisteru aby fungoval) jen nevim jak to opravit ... kdyz sem promeroval vse
> mozne co me napadlo ... dosel sem az k 11.pinu obvodu AM26LS32 tedy obvod s
> oznacenim U62 dokonce merici misto s oznacenim P52 a kdyz sem meril napeti (no
> uz ani nevim jak me to napadlo stejne sem nic rozumnyho nezmeril nybrz to byl
> obyc multimetr a bohuzel osciloskop nemam - asi ze zoufalstvi) a jeden merici
> hrot sem mel na tomto miste a druhy proti zemi twister zacal bezvadne fungovat
> ... nevypadne ani paket a bezi to vse bez problemu ... jak dam jeden z hrotu
> pryc je tu opet muj problem (neprojde skoro zadny paket) ...
> 
> Takze ted premyslim nad tim co ten multimetr s tim signalem tam vlastne udelal
> (skoro mam pocit ze z toho U62 z vystupu toho operaku mi leze nejakej zarusenej
> paskvil s kterym si zbytek zapojeni neporadi a me se ho tim multimetrem podari
> nejak pozmenit do prijatelny formy) ... vzhledem k tomu ze byl preplej na
> mereni napeti musel mit vysokej vnitrni odpor a asi by mohl i docela dobre
> simulovat kapacitu a merici hroty mozna indukcnost ... no proste fajn kombinace
> ...
> 
> Nenapada nekoho neco co s tim ? Mimo toho ze bych zvetsil krabicku a vestavel
> multimetr natvrdo do Twistera :-))) ci to nekam zahodil a postavil novej ?

I think you have probably cold joint in Twister. Haven't you been
smoking a joint which went out and didn't you drop it into the box? :)

Inspect the board for joints with non-uniform or non-smooth surface and
reheat them with soldering iron dipped into rosin flux. Then wash away
with isopropyl alcohol and try again.

If thid doesn't help, try that for *all* joints. That should take long
time I hope. I guess you used the same components for both boards so
it's likely it's a cold joint.

Can you send a photo of the board before trying to fix? I can tell you
if I like your soldering or not :)

CL<


From clock at twibright.com  Wed Oct  5 15:01:21 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 16:01:21 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Anomalie s Twisterem
In-Reply-To: <4342DE98.3000205@seznam.cz>
References: <1128037053.433c7abd6fd6a@mail.cobrik.net>
	<20051002192013.GA22340@kestrel.t-n-p.org>
	<1128300126.43407e5e9b2ee@mail.cobrik.net>
	<200510041336.15093.ladmanj@volny.cz>
	<1128455354.4342dcba74e66@mail.cobrik.net>
	<4342DE98.3000205@seznam.cz>
Message-ID: <20051005140121.GB18730@kestrel>

On Tue, Oct 04, 2005 at 09:57:12PM +0200, Pavel Krejci wrote:
> Ach jo.. lidi ctete...
> 
> cituji clocka:
> 
> "Not AM26LS32!" -  http://ronja.twibright.com/twister/material.php
> You are you wasting my/our time.
> Replace AM26LS32 with allowed replacement and try again.
> 
> "AM26LS32 NE!" - http://ronja.twibright.com/twister/material.php
> Maris muj/tvuj cas.
> Nahrad AM26LS32 povolenou nahradou a zkus znova
> 
> konec citace

He said he has AM26LS32ACN, which is AM26LS32A with suffix, which is OK
(I think C means commercial as opposed to military and N is case type).

Looks like a cold joint to me.

CL<


From clock at twibright.com  Wed Oct  5 15:05:33 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 16:05:33 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Ronja KiTs and Ronja for commercial
In-Reply-To: <1128457766.7911.21.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <mailman.1.1128250800.3790.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
	<005201c5c8f5$f4955fe0$e764640a@bukovina.pl>
	<1128457766.7911.21.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <20051005140533.GC18730@kestrel>

On Tue, Oct 04, 2005 at 10:29:26PM +0200, Lucas Vogelsang wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> There is really going something on...
> 
> I would do it... but I have thought about it and I have several
> problems:
> 
> 1. I am still at school, and I do not have that much time, I need
> someone to help me. 

I don't either... :)

> 
> 	Solution: Find some partners, mail me if you would want to
> 
> 2. I am not allowed to have a credit card -> I can't use moneybookers
> nor paypal.

Does it mean that I have to have a credit card to be able to cash in
paypal money?

> 
> 	Solution: Find a reliable partner wich is at least 18
> 
> 3. I live in CH, where work is unaffordable, for e.g. etching pcb,
> populate pcb etc.
> 
> 	Solution: Find a partner/company outside CH who would do it for me.
> 
> 4. I can't invest that much.
> 
> 	Solution: Find some customers who will say that they will buy some
> goods for sure.
> 
> Ronja Parts:
>   * PCB of Twister, RX, TX
>   * Parts for Twister, RX, TX(smd and non-smd)
>   * Populated Twister, RX, TX
>   * Lenses
>   * Plugs and other exotic mechanical parts
>   * Powersupply
> what else?
> 
> Other things I thought one could sell:
>   * Tools as a soldering iron
>   * Ronja Mirror on CD
>   * Ronja Guide on Paper
>   * Development Contribution(financial contribution which will be
> redirected to ronja project)
>   * Maybe T-Shirts
> what else?
> 
> For saving transportation costs I have thought one could have some local
> distributors, for e.g. Jakub Horky in CZ could deliver to CZ. I could
> deliver to CH and West-Europe. If anybody lives in America or India or
> Affrica, and would like to help me, tell me.

I am currently trying to negotiate something with Tenyen from London.

CL<

> 2. Shipping: Local distributor gets one airmail package instead of 5
> people paying international shipping fee. 

3. ecology. It doesn't make sense wasting fuel to meaninglessly send
packages around Europe, especially when people are dying because of fuel
in Bush's fuel wars ;-)

> transfer gets to expansive.

Looks like international postage from London is just around 0.30GBP which is
like 0.70CHF :)

CL<


From clock at twibright.com  Wed Oct  5 15:06:28 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 16:06:28 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Anomalie s Twisterem
In-Reply-To: <20051004224125.mldi9knq4g04ko44@mail.cobrik.net>
References: <1128037053.433c7abd6fd6a@mail.cobrik.net>
	<20051002192013.GA22340@kestrel.t-n-p.org>
	<1128300126.43407e5e9b2ee@mail.cobrik.net>
	<200510041336.15093.ladmanj@volny.cz>
	<1128455354.4342dcba74e66@mail.cobrik.net>
	<4342DE98.3000205@seznam.cz>
	<20051004224125.mldi9knq4g04ko44@mail.cobrik.net>
Message-ID: <20051005140628.GD18730@kestrel>

On Tue, Oct 04, 2005 at 10:41:25PM +0200, ronja at cobrik.net wrote:
> Uff tak se omlouvam ze se nebyl konkretni ... ale mam nejakou zajimavou 
> verzi a
> to AM26LS32ACN a AM26LS31CN ... co sem koukal tak N by melo byt oznaceni
> pouzdra ... cili to by snad vadit nemelo (?) U ty AM26LS32 to Acko je 
> ale vsude

This is OK. That's AM26LS32A + suffix.

CL<

> mam jeste C a o tom se uz Clock nezminuje ani jako povolenou nahradu ani jako
> zakazanou ... Tak nevim ... Nejaky nazor na tuto divnou mutaci AMka ?
> 
> Diky
> 
> Milos


From toad at amphibian.dyndns.org  Wed Oct  5 15:27:54 2005
From: toad at amphibian.dyndns.org (Matthew Toseland)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 15:27:54 +0100
Subject: [Ronja] Ronja KiTs and Ronja for commercial
In-Reply-To: <20051005140533.GC18730@kestrel>
References: <mailman.1.1128250800.3790.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
	<005201c5c8f5$f4955fe0$e764640a@bukovina.pl>
	<1128457766.7911.21.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<20051005140533.GC18730@kestrel>
Message-ID: <20051005142754.GA30600@amphibian.dyndns.org>

On Wed, Oct 05, 2005 at 04:05:33PM +0200, Karel Kulhavy wrote:
> > 
> > 2. I am not allowed to have a credit card -> I can't use moneybookers
> > nor paypal.
> 
> Does it mean that I have to have a credit card to be able to cash in
> paypal money?

There are no debit cards in Switzerland?! Really? No Maestro/Switch/Solo?
And no generally you need a bank account, but it's easiest with a
debit/credit card... for uploading funds. For getting funds out, a card
is irrelevant.
-- 
Matthew J Toseland - toad at amphibian.dyndns.org
Freenet Project Official Codemonkey - http://freenetproject.org/
ICTHUS - Nothing is impossible. Our Boss says so.
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From lucasvo at gmx.ch  Wed Oct  5 15:34:00 2005
From: lucasvo at gmx.ch (Lucas Vogelsang)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 16:34:00 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Ronja KiTs and Ronja for commercial
In-Reply-To: <20051005142754.GA30600@amphibian.dyndns.org>
References: <mailman.1.1128250800.3790.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
	<005201c5c8f5$f4955fe0$e764640a@bukovina.pl>
	<1128457766.7911.21.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<20051005140533.GC18730@kestrel>
	<20051005142754.GA30600@amphibian.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <1128522840.7911.63.camel@localhost.localdomain>

On Wed, 2005-10-05 at 15:27 +0100, Matthew Toseland wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 05, 2005 at 04:05:33PM +0200, Karel Kulhavy wrote:
> > > 
> > > 2. I am not allowed to have a credit card -> I can't use moneybookers
> > > nor paypal.
> > 

I am not 18, as it is written in the Solution....

> > Does it mean that I have to have a credit card to be able to cash in
> > paypal money?
> 
> There are no debit cards in Switzerland?! Really? No Maestro/Switch/Solo?
> And no generally you need a bank account, but it's easiest with a
> debit/credit card... for uploading funds. For getting funds out, a card
> is irrelevant.

Lucas



From clock at twibright.com  Wed Oct  5 15:46:09 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 16:46:09 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Slides from WSFII
In-Reply-To: <20051005003804.GA20736@amphibian.dyndns.org>
References: <20051002152226.GA11620@kestrel.t-n-p.org>
	<20051004135007.GA7623@amphibian.dyndns.org>
	<20051004170016.GA18547@kestrel>
	<20051005003804.GA20736@amphibian.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <20051005144609.GG18730@kestrel>

> > No it would have 10Mbps.
> 
> Ah, okay. I misunderstood the slides. So Fogtown is simply a bigger
> light bulb and better optics, and possibly a different color. The longer

Will be red but red Luxeon III is a hot news and Ronja development is
ahead of the availability of the best parts in the world so we weren't
able to get a red so we took a green one for measurement.

But Chris Long & Mike Groth in Tasmania (the world record holders) were
able to get a red one so if we finally kick Pusterla into ordering one
as they are already promising for a long time, we'll have one :)

> range will be useful. Are future 100Mbps models likely to be exclusively
> laser based?

Yes the speed of appropriate LEDs is suitable for 10Mbps only.

> > 
> > >   community wifi networks, even in the West where labour is expensive
> > >   and we have 802.11a(C) (2W limit, effectively no noise, ~ 25Mbps half
> > >   duplex).

Heh where are you living that you can fry 2W into the air? :) Europe has
100mW EIRP limit AFAIK.

> > > - Suppose we wanted to donate say ?25/?50 (~= 1000/2000 CZK) - can you
> > >   take donations via Moneybookers? (moneybookers.com) This looks like
> > 
> > Looks complicated. What am I supposed to do to get the money?
> 
> Create an account. Add a bank account to withdraw to. You can then
> extract funds for 1.80 EUR each time. Once you know it works, link to it
> on your website.

OK I'll try it when I find some time.

> Fair enough. Which will likely be either Trinitrack or Lucifer? The

Don't know. We agreed with Lucas to release Fogtown for free so it
will be either Trinitrack or Lucifer :)

> We (Bristol Wireless) passed a motion to build a Ronja in today's
> business meeting; people seem enthusiastic. If we can do it in two hours
> with experience then it's a very viable alternative to 802.11a even

Don't forget the mechanics which is quite labour expensive (unless you
outsource). Like you can pay zinc bath and/or powder coating which saves a
lot of work. And now we have drilling templates released which speeds
up the work significantly too.

CL<


From clock at twibright.com  Wed Oct  5 15:47:35 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 16:47:35 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Ronja kits for developing world
In-Reply-To: <20051005004058.GB20736@amphibian.dyndns.org>
References: <0EC586ED-1149-4BC0-A61F-3FE5757EC695@mac.com>
	<20051004115019.GB26455@kestrel>
	<20051004135602.GB7623@amphibian.dyndns.org>
	<20051004170150.GB18547@kestrel>
	<20051005004058.GB20736@amphibian.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <20051005144735.GI18730@kestrel>

On Wed, Oct 05, 2005 at 01:40:58AM +0100, Matthew Toseland wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 04, 2005 at 07:01:50PM +0200, Karel Kulhavy wrote:
> > On Tue, Oct 04, 2005 at 02:56:02PM +0100, Matthew Toseland wrote:
> > 
> > > Paypal doesn't let you draw funds in the Czech Republic. Moneybookers
> > 
> > And Switzerland?
> 
> Good question. Obviously paypal would be ideal. And the answer is...
> yes. https://www.paypal.com/ch/
> > 
> > > does (no, I don't work for them; I did have a problem with fax
> > > verification once but that was a long time ago; a friend recommended
> > > them when paypal temporarily froze our account):
> > > http://www.moneybookers.com/
> 
> Scratch that - if you can use paypal, use paypal. People know it, and
> therefore trust it.

Does Moneybookers allow withdrawal without a credit card?

CL<


From toad at amphibian.dyndns.org  Wed Oct  5 16:04:21 2005
From: toad at amphibian.dyndns.org (Matthew Toseland)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 16:04:21 +0100
Subject: [Ronja] Slides from WSFII
In-Reply-To: <20051005144609.GG18730@kestrel>
References: <20051002152226.GA11620@kestrel.t-n-p.org>
	<20051004135007.GA7623@amphibian.dyndns.org>
	<20051004170016.GA18547@kestrel>
	<20051005003804.GA20736@amphibian.dyndns.org>
	<20051005144609.GG18730@kestrel>
Message-ID: <20051005150421.GA29732@amphibian.dyndns.org>

On Wed, Oct 05, 2005 at 04:46:09PM +0200, Karel Kulhavy wrote:
> > > No it would have 10Mbps.
> > 
> > Ah, okay. I misunderstood the slides. So Fogtown is simply a bigger
> > light bulb and better optics, and possibly a different color. The longer
> 
> Will be red but red Luxeon III is a hot news and Ronja development is
> ahead of the availability of the best parts in the world so we weren't
> able to get a red so we took a green one for measurement.
> 
> But Chris Long & Mike Groth in Tasmania (the world record holders) were
> able to get a red one so if we finally kick Pusterla into ordering one
> as they are already promising for a long time, we'll have one :)
> 
> > range will be useful. Are future 100Mbps models likely to be exclusively
> > laser based?
> 
> Yes the speed of appropriate LEDs is suitable for 10Mbps only.

Ahh, okay.
> 
> > > 
> > > >   community wifi networks, even in the West where labour is expensive
> > > >   and we have 802.11a(C) (2W limit, effectively no noise, ~ 25Mbps half
> > > >   duplex).
> 
> Heh where are you living that you can fry 2W into the air? :) Europe has
> 100mW EIRP limit AFAIK.

UK. 802.11a band A is 100mW, mobile; B is 1W, mobile, and C is licensed
(but very cheap, intended for community projects etc) 2W for fixed
installations.
> 
> > > > - Suppose we wanted to donate say ?25/?50 (~= 1000/2000 CZK) - can you
> > > >   take donations via Moneybookers? (moneybookers.com) This looks like
> > > 
> > > Looks complicated. What am I supposed to do to get the money?
> > 
> > Create an account. Add a bank account to withdraw to. You can then
> > extract funds for 1.80 EUR each time. Once you know it works, link to it
> > on your website.
> 
> OK I'll try it when I find some time.
> 
> > Fair enough. Which will likely be either Trinitrack or Lucifer? The
> 
> Don't know. We agreed with Lucas to release Fogtown for free so it
> will be either Trinitrack or Lucifer :)

Looking forward to it.
> 
> > We (Bristol Wireless) passed a motion to build a Ronja in today's
> > business meeting; people seem enthusiastic. If we can do it in two hours
> > with experience then it's a very viable alternative to 802.11a even
> 
> Don't forget the mechanics which is quite labour expensive (unless you
> outsource). Like you can pay zinc bath and/or powder coating which saves a
> lot of work. And now we have drilling templates released which speeds
> up the work significantly too.
> 
> CL<
-- 
Matthew J Toseland - toad at amphibian.dyndns.org
Freenet Project Official Codemonkey - http://freenetproject.org/
ICTHUS - Nothing is impossible. Our Boss says so.
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From toad at amphibian.dyndns.org  Wed Oct  5 16:06:32 2005
From: toad at amphibian.dyndns.org (Matthew Toseland)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 16:06:32 +0100
Subject: [Ronja] Ronja kits for developing world
In-Reply-To: <20051005144735.GI18730@kestrel>
References: <0EC586ED-1149-4BC0-A61F-3FE5757EC695@mac.com>
	<20051004115019.GB26455@kestrel>
	<20051004135602.GB7623@amphibian.dyndns.org>
	<20051004170150.GB18547@kestrel>
	<20051005004058.GB20736@amphibian.dyndns.org>
	<20051005144735.GI18730@kestrel>
Message-ID: <20051005150632.GC29732@amphibian.dyndns.org>

Even paypal does here... you'd have to check, it might be different
where you are.

On Wed, Oct 05, 2005 at 04:47:35PM +0200, Karel Kulhavy wrote:
> > > 
> > > And Switzerland?
> > 
> > Good question. Obviously paypal would be ideal. And the answer is...
> > yes. https://www.paypal.com/ch/
> > > 
> > > > does (no, I don't work for them; I did have a problem with fax
> > > > verification once but that was a long time ago; a friend recommended
> > > > them when paypal temporarily froze our account):
> > > > http://www.moneybookers.com/
> > 
> > Scratch that - if you can use paypal, use paypal. People know it, and
> > therefore trust it.
> 
> Does Moneybookers allow withdrawal without a credit card?
> 
> CL<
-- 
Matthew J Toseland - toad at amphibian.dyndns.org
Freenet Project Official Codemonkey - http://freenetproject.org/
ICTHUS - Nothing is impossible. Our Boss says so.
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From lucasvo at gmx.ch  Wed Oct  5 19:31:03 2005
From: lucasvo at gmx.ch (Lucas Vogelsang)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 20:31:03 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Migration from twiki to mediawiki
Message-ID: <1128537063.7365.1.camel@localhost.localdomain>

Hi,

I have tried to migrate twiki to mediawiki. I know it is still quite
crappy, but I can't do all the work. But that happens when opensource
developers are to lazy to fix security holes...

The new wiki is available at http://wiki.twibright.com. There is a Link
called Mediawiki migration. On that page is a list of all the imported
articles from twiki. Now it is your turn to go through the list and look
at every article, assign a category(see below), clean them up and delete
them from the list.

How to assign a category label to a wiki article:
For e.g. to assign the category ronja you just have to add:

[[Category:Ronja]]

at the end of the page.

Thanks a lot for your work
lucas




From lucasvo at gmx.ch  Wed Oct  5 19:31:08 2005
From: lucasvo at gmx.ch (Lucas Vogelsang)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 20:31:08 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Migration from twiki to mediawiki
Message-ID: <1128537063.7365.1.camel@localhost.localdomain>

Hi,

I have tried to migrate twiki to mediawiki. I know it is still quite
crappy, but I can't do all the work. But that happens when opensource
developers are to lazy to fix security holes...

The new wiki is available at http://wiki.twibright.com. There is a Link
called Mediawiki migration. On that page is a list of all the imported
articles from twiki. Now it is your turn to go through the list and look
at every article, assign a category(see below), clean them up and delete
them from the list.

How to assign a category label to a wiki article:
For e.g. to assign the category ronja you just have to add:

[[Category:Ronja]]

at the end of the page.

Thanks a lot for your work
lucas




From lucasvo at gmx.ch  Wed Oct  5 19:57:29 2005
From: lucasvo at gmx.ch (Lucas Vogelsang)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 20:57:29 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] svn
Message-ID: <1128538649.7263.3.camel@localhost.localdomain>

Hi folks,

Here another message, we did successfully updated to SVN and
trac webfrontend. We have our SVN repository now running on the new
server ronja-svn.wservices.ch(thanks for the sponsoring to wservices.ch,
the webhoster which even installs you such programs as gcc, java, and
trac :D)

ronja-svn.wservices.ch is a quite good svn front-end to view the
changes, submit a bug report(aka ticket) and browser the source tree.

Here is a small introduction how to work with svn+trac:

Scenarios:

1. You want to make a local copy of ronja source tree
2. You have found a typo but you don't want to download over 250MB ronja
source tree
3. You want to get a fault corrected but don't have the skills for
editing the source

==== First scenario: ==== 

Install subversion(source available at subversion.tigris.org)
checkout source with:
                svn checkout http://ronja-svn.twibright.com/ronja
If you want to update the source tree use svn update

==== Second scenario: ==== 

Go to ronja-svn.wservices.ch and then to "Browser"
There in the folder trunk you have the whole source, selected the file
and click on the download link on the bottom of the page. 
After you have edited the file go on "submit ticket" add the requested
information and attach the file. We will look what you have done and
commit the changes.

==== Third scenario ==== 

Go to ronja-svn.wservices.ch and then to "submit ticket" 
Add the information and submit, we will look at it and edit the source.

CU,
Lucas





From ronja at hansmi.ch  Wed Oct  5 20:36:51 2005
From: ronja at hansmi.ch (Michael Hanselmann)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 21:36:51 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] =?utf-8?q?Jakub_Hork=C3=BD_=28the_person_behind_ronjashop?=
	=?utf-8?q?=2Einfo=29_doesn=27t_respond=2C_PCBs_not_delivered?=
Message-ID: <20051005193651.GB26657@hansmi.ch>

Hello

After talking with Karel about this issue, we decided that I should mail
it to the list. Maybe someone else is affected, too.

I ordered eight (8) Twister PCBs at [1] on 5th August 2005.
Additionally, I had some general mail contact with Jakub Hork? before
and after that date to discuss some, here unrelated, issues with the
website, so I know his E-Mail address is working.  The respond times
have been about two weeks for each mail.

After forgetting about it at first, I paid the money of CZK 1500 or EUR
53 on 17th August. It takes at maximum a week for the money to arrive in
the Czech Repulic from Switzerland, where I live. The record on the
status page[2] didn't change since I placed the order.

The last mail I have from Jakub is from 3rd September 2005, but it was
only an answer to a mail from me about an issue with the website and not
related to the order.

- Has someone else also open orders?
- Has somebody heard something from Jakub in the last two months or got
  an order delivered?
- May it be that Jakub's simply too busy with school/work?

Jakub, if you're reading this: I'm not trying to defame you. I'm only
trying to look where my PCBs, or at least my money, hides. If you've
really time issues, I don't have a problem with that, but it would be
nice to know about it and to see some notice about it on the web page or
via e-mail.

Greets,
Michael

[1] http://ronjashop.com/intl/request.php
[2] http://ronjashop.com/intl/status.php

-- 
Gentoo Linux Developer using m0n0wall | http://hansmi.ch/
Bus error -- driver executed.
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From djbobr.ronja at seznam.cz  Wed Oct  5 21:08:00 2005
From: djbobr.ronja at seznam.cz (dj-bobr)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 22:08:00 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Jakub =?ISO-8859-2?Q?Hork=FD_=28the_person_beh?=
	=?ISO-8859-2?Q?ind_ronjashop=2Einfo=29_doesn=27t_respond=2C_PCBs?=
	=?ISO-8859-2?Q?_not_delivered?=
In-Reply-To: <20051005193651.GB26657@hansmi.ch>
References: <20051005193651.GB26657@hansmi.ch>
Message-ID: <434432A0.5090402@seznam.cz>

Hello,

he is busy with school, but I am sure that he will contact you soon and 
try to solve the problem.

I will forward this message to Jakub and I will tell him about it.

--
dj-bobr

Michael Hanselmann napsal(a):
> Hello
> 
> After talking with Karel about this issue, we decided that I should mail
> it to the list. Maybe someone else is affected, too.
> 
> I ordered eight (8) Twister PCBs at [1] on 5th August 2005.
> Additionally, I had some general mail contact with Jakub Hork? before
> and after that date to discuss some, here unrelated, issues with the
> website, so I know his E-Mail address is working.  The respond times
> have been about two weeks for each mail.
> 
> After forgetting about it at first, I paid the money of CZK 1500 or EUR
> 53 on 17th August. It takes at maximum a week for the money to arrive in
> the Czech Repulic from Switzerland, where I live. The record on the
> status page[2] didn't change since I placed the order.
> 
> The last mail I have from Jakub is from 3rd September 2005, but it was
> only an answer to a mail from me about an issue with the website and not
> related to the order.
> 
> - Has someone else also open orders?
> - Has somebody heard something from Jakub in the last two months or got
>   an order delivered?
> - May it be that Jakub's simply too busy with school/work?
> 
> Jakub, if you're reading this: I'm not trying to defame you. I'm only
> trying to look where my PCBs, or at least my money, hides. If you've
> really time issues, I don't have a problem with that, but it would be
> nice to know about it and to see some notice about it on the web page or
> via e-mail.
> 
> Greets,
> Michael
> 
> [1] http://ronjashop.com/intl/request.php
> [2] http://ronjashop.com/intl/status.php
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From lucasvo at gmx.ch  Wed Oct  5 22:08:01 2005
From: lucasvo at gmx.ch (Lucas Vogelsang)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 23:08:01 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Jakub =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Hork=FD?= (the person behind
	ronjashop.info) doesn't respond, PCBs not delivered
In-Reply-To: <434432A0.5090402@seznam.cz>
References: <20051005193651.GB26657@hansmi.ch>  <434432A0.5090402@seznam.cz>
Message-ID: <1128546482.7263.6.camel@localhost.localdomain>

Hi,

On Wed, 2005-10-05 at 22:08 +0200, dj-bobr wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> he is busy with school, but I am sure that he will contact you soon and 
> try to solve the problem.
> 
He should read the mailing list
> I will forward this message to Jakub and I will tell him about it.
> 
and tell him that he should respond to mails more often

lucas



From clock at twibright.com  Wed Oct  5 23:13:41 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 00:13:41 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] We have bugreports...
Message-ID: <20051005221341.GA19521@kestrel>

Trac rulez.

http://ronja-svn.wservices.ch/report/report/1

I don't wonder NASA JPL is using Trac.

Special THX to lucasvo for setting up that :)

Feel free to add your own bugreports, especially regarding if you find
the website crappy (incomprehensible at some point, ambiguous, dead
link, something should be linked from somewhere and isn't etc.)

CL<


From clock at twibright.com  Wed Oct  5 23:16:34 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 00:16:34 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Very easy translation now
Message-ID: <20051005221634.GB19521@kestrel>

If you want to translate to Czech or German, just download single file
of source code (determine filename and path from URL easily) here:
http://ronja-svn.wservices.ch/report/browser/

Use the "trunk", not branches (branches are devel).

And then rewrite the text inside to different language and send me by
mail. Thanks.

Thanks to lucasvo for setting up this wonderful Trac system.

CL<


From clock at twibright.com  Wed Oct  5 23:18:51 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 00:18:51 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Browse Ronja source codes online
Message-ID: <20051005221851.GC19521@kestrel>

For all you who wonder how Ronja embeds gEDA into wider framwework: now
you can browse the source code of the whole Ronja website beast online:

http://ronja-svn.wservices.ch/report/browser/

CL<


From ronja at hansmi.ch  Thu Oct  6 08:31:36 2005
From: ronja at hansmi.ch (Michael Hanselmann)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 09:31:36 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Jakub =?utf-8?B?SG9ya8O9ICh0?= =?utf-8?Q?he_perso?=
	=?utf-8?Q?n?= behind ronjashop.info) doesn't respond, PCBs not delivered
In-Reply-To: <434432A0.5090402@seznam.cz>
References: <20051005193651.GB26657@hansmi.ch> <434432A0.5090402@seznam.cz>
Message-ID: <20051006073136.GC2324@hansmi.ch>

Hello

On Wed, Oct 05, 2005 at 10:08:00PM +0200, dj-bobr wrote:
> I will forward this message to Jakub and I will tell him about it.

Didn't you see that I already CC'ed him? Anyway, thanks for your help

Greets,
Michael

-- 
Gentoo Linux Developer using m0n0wall | http://hansmi.ch/
FACILITY REJECTED 100044200000;
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From asteri_x at freemail.hu  Thu Oct  6 08:44:06 2005
From: asteri_x at freemail.hu (Martin)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 09:44:06 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] svn
In-Reply-To: <1128538649.7263.3.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <1128538649.7263.3.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <4344D5C6.8000002@freemail.hu>

> 
> ==== First scenario: ==== 
> 
> Install subversion(source available at subversion.tigris.org)
> checkout source with:
>                 svn checkout http://ronja-svn.twibright.com/ronja
> If you want to update the source tree use svn update

Hi!

I tried, but it didnt find this site:
http://ronja-svn.twibright.com/ronja
It says:

Error: PROPFIND request failed on '/ronja'
Error: PROPFIND of '/ronja': Could not resolve hostname
`ronja-svn.twibright.com': Der
Error: angeforderte Name ist g?ltig und wurde in der Datenbank gefunden.
Er verf?gt
Error: jedoch nicht ?ber die richtigen zugeordneten Daten, die
ausgewertet werden
Error: sollten.   (http://ronja-svn.twibright.com)


Nor did it find something on:
http://ronja-svn.wservices.ch
It says:

Error: PROPFIND request failed on '/'
Error: PROPFIND of '/': 200 OK (http://ronja-svn.wservices.ch)

I have the latest TortoiseSVN.

Bye,
Martin



From clock at twibright.com  Thu Oct  6 10:20:58 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 11:20:58 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] svn
In-Reply-To: <4344D5C6.8000002@freemail.hu>
References: <1128538649.7263.3.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<4344D5C6.8000002@freemail.hu>
Message-ID: <20051006092058.GC32726@kestrel>

On Thu, Oct 06, 2005 at 09:44:06AM +0200, Martin wrote:
> > 
> > ==== First scenario: ==== 
> > 
> > Install subversion(source available at subversion.tigris.org)
> > checkout source with:
> >                 svn checkout http://ronja-svn.twibright.com/ronja

Sorry, use wservices.ch instead of twibright.com please. This is some kind
of mistake from Twibright side.

Lucas, should I add DNS ronja-svn.twibright.com to twibright DNS?
It is possible to have other projects (like i2c2p) in the same
svn? Then I would call it svn.twibright.com because it's shorter
for people to type.

CL<
> > If you want to update the source tree use svn update
> 
> Hi!
> 
> I tried, but it didnt find this site:
> http://ronja-svn.twibright.com/ronja
> It says:
> 
> Error: PROPFIND request failed on '/ronja'
> Error: PROPFIND of '/ronja': Could not resolve hostname
> `ronja-svn.twibright.com': Der
> Error: angeforderte Name ist g?ltig und wurde in der Datenbank gefunden.
> Er verf?gt
> Error: jedoch nicht ?ber die richtigen zugeordneten Daten, die
> ausgewertet werden
> Error: sollten.   (http://ronja-svn.twibright.com)
> 
> 
> Nor did it find something on:
> http://ronja-svn.wservices.ch
> It says:
> 
> Error: PROPFIND request failed on '/'
> Error: PROPFIND of '/': 200 OK (http://ronja-svn.wservices.ch)
> 
> I have the latest TortoiseSVN.
> 
> Bye,
> Martin
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From lucasvo at gmx.ch  Thu Oct  6 11:29:22 2005
From: lucasvo at gmx.ch (Lucas Vogelsang)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 12:29:22 +0200 (MEST)
Subject: [Ronja] svn
References: <4344D5C6.8000002@freemail.hu>
Message-ID: <3591.1128594562@www46.gmx.net>

Hi,

thanks for bugreporting...
> 
> > 
> > ==== First scenario: ==== 
> > 
> > Install subversion(source available at subversion.tigris.org)
> > checkout source with:
> >                 svn checkout http://ronja-svn.twibright.com/ronja
> > If you want to update the source tree use svn update
> 

This is WRONG, it should say svn checkout
http://ronja-svn.wservices.ch/ronja
> Hi!
> 
> I tried, but it didnt find this site:
> http://ronja-svn.twibright.com/ronja
> It says:
> 
> Error: PROPFIND request failed on '/ronja'
> Error: PROPFIND of '/ronja': Could not resolve hostname
> `ronja-svn.twibright.com': Der
> Error: angeforderte Name ist g??ltig und wurde in der Datenbank gefunden.
> Er verf??gt
> Error: jedoch nicht ??ber die richtigen zugeordneten Daten, die
> ausgewertet werden
> Error: sollten.   (http://ronja-svn.twibright.com)
> 
> 
> Nor did it find something on:
> http://ronja-svn.wservices.ch
> It says:
> 
> Error: PROPFIND request failed on '/'
> Error: PROPFIND of '/': 200 OK (http://ronja-svn.wservices.ch)
> 
> I have the latest TortoiseSVN.
>

That is ok

Lucas

-- 
GMX DSL = Maximale Leistung zum minimalen Preis!
2000 MB nur 2,99, Flatrate ab 4,99 Euro/Monat: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/dsl


From lucasvo at gmx.ch  Thu Oct  6 11:33:58 2005
From: lucasvo at gmx.ch (Lucas Vogelsang)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 12:33:58 +0200 (MEST)
Subject: [Ronja] svn
References: <20051006092058.GC32726@kestrel>
Message-ID: <22639.1128594838@www46.gmx.net>

> On Thu, Oct 06, 2005 at 09:44:06AM +0200, Martin wrote:
> > > 
> > > ==== First scenario: ==== 
> > > 
> > > Install subversion(source available at subversion.tigris.org)
> > > checkout source with:
> > >                 svn checkout http://ronja-svn.twibright.com/ronja
> 
> Sorry, use wservices.ch instead of twibright.com please. This is some kind
> of mistake from Twibright side.
> 
Oh, I didn't read this mail, anyway two times can't be that bad ...

> Lucas, should I add DNS ronja-svn.twibright.com to twibright DNS?
> It is possible to have other projects (like i2c2p) in the same
> svn? Then I would call it svn.twibright.com because it's shorter
> for people to type.
> 
yes, we can use trac for other projects as well of course, but I think, in
that case I will redo it.

lucas


-- 
GMX DSL = Maximale Leistung zum minimalen Preis!
2000 MB nur 2,99, Flatrate ab 4,99 Euro/Monat: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/dsl


From supermaster at seznam.cz  Thu Oct  6 14:37:21 2005
From: supermaster at seznam.cz (SuperMaster)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 15:37:21 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Are 310mm fresnel lens suitable for RX?
In-Reply-To: <200507260728.21264.zapadlo@melzer.cz>
References: <5713.7439-18547-202161306-1122306088@seznam.cz>
	<200507260728.21264.zapadlo@melzer.cz>
Message-ID: <43452891.8010905@seznam.cz>

Cauves, dorazily fresnelky z 3Dlens, konkretne A310a a A260. Ocekaval 
jsem super kvalitu a jsem dost zklamany. A260 je prakticky nepouzitelna, 
ma nejen dost hroznou kulovou vadu, ale ma i dost brutalni zkresleni, 
ktery se projevuje tim, ze kdyz promitnu LEDku z ronji, ukaze se na zdi 
takovy podivny obrazec, fakt vtipny, to snad nemyslej vazne. Je totiz 
jakoby kriva, nektery mista jakoby zvetsujou vic nez jiny, proste hruza. 
Urcite to bude tim, ze ma ohnisko jen 200mm, takze kazda vada se projevi 
vic. A310a s 330mm ohniskem je o neco lepsi, pokusim se ji dat na RX. Se 
130mm vietcong lupou na TX to docela ujde, sice to neni kvalita tech 
lup, ale ujde to, alespon to bude odolny proti vykyvum budov a drzaku. 
Fakt by me ale zajimalo, co dam na TX, protoze ty cinsky maj ohnisko asi 
370, takze uplne naprd. Potrebuju nejlepe 130mm cocku s ohniskem kolem 
180-200, nevite o necem? Objevil jsem dalsi firmu www.fresneltech.com, 
<http://www.fresneltech.com,> ale jsou desne drahy. Taky me dost 
udivilo, ze kruznice ty 3D struktury jsou ekvidistatni, coz byt v zadnem 
pripade nemaji, to bude zrejmne duvod ty kulovy vady. Pritom spocitat tu 
3D strukturu je tak snadny, napadlo me proto jestli bychom si nemohly ty 
cocky nekde nechat vyrobit. Nevite o nejakym ultra presnym a hlavne 
jemnym soustruhu? Mozna by slo pouzit CNC, ale nevim nevim. Pak uz by to 
jen stacilo lisovat, to uz by stalo malo, doufam. Dalsi vec je, ze pro 
nase pouziti by mohly byt ty groove pitch (neboli vyska tech 3D 
struktur) pomerne dost velike, umim si predstavit klidne 3-5mm, nejen ze 
by to slo lepe vyrobit, ale navic by se ztratilo mene svetla na tech 
hranach.





From clock at twibright.com  Thu Oct  6 16:44:32 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 17:44:32 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Ronja kits for developing world
In-Reply-To: <20051005150632.GC29732@amphibian.dyndns.org>
References: <0EC586ED-1149-4BC0-A61F-3FE5757EC695@mac.com>
	<20051004115019.GB26455@kestrel>
	<20051004135602.GB7623@amphibian.dyndns.org>
	<20051004170150.GB18547@kestrel>
	<20051005004058.GB20736@amphibian.dyndns.org>
	<20051005144735.GI18730@kestrel>
	<20051005150632.GC29732@amphibian.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <20051006154432.GA6377@kestrel>

On Wed, Oct 05, 2005 at 04:06:32PM +0100, Matthew Toseland wrote:
> Even paypal does here... you'd have to check, it might be different
> where you are.

Which paypal account should I create? Basic, premium or business?

CL<


From toad at amphibian.dyndns.org  Thu Oct  6 17:09:41 2005
From: toad at amphibian.dyndns.org (Matthew Toseland)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 17:09:41 +0100
Subject: [Ronja] Ronja kits for developing world
In-Reply-To: <20051006154432.GA6377@kestrel>
References: <0EC586ED-1149-4BC0-A61F-3FE5757EC695@mac.com>
	<20051004115019.GB26455@kestrel>
	<20051004135602.GB7623@amphibian.dyndns.org>
	<20051004170150.GB18547@kestrel>
	<20051005004058.GB20736@amphibian.dyndns.org>
	<20051005144735.GI18730@kestrel>
	<20051005150632.GC29732@amphibian.dyndns.org>
	<20051006154432.GA6377@kestrel>
Message-ID: <20051006160941.GA4670@amphibian.dyndns.org>

On Thu, Oct 06, 2005 at 05:44:32PM +0200, Karel Kulhavy wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 05, 2005 at 04:06:32PM +0100, Matthew Toseland wrote:
> > Even paypal does here... you'd have to check, it might be different
> > where you are.
> 
> Which paypal account should I create? Basic, premium or business?

Premium lets you take credit cards directly. Business lets you have
multiple logins. You can upgrade to premium from basic, but you can't
downgrade. So create a basic account, for the lowest fees. You can
upgrade later if you need to.
> 
> CL<
-- 
Matthew J Toseland - toad at amphibian.dyndns.org
Freenet Project Official Codemonkey - http://freenetproject.org/
ICTHUS - Nothing is impossible. Our Boss says so.
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From clock at twibright.com  Thu Oct  6 18:33:46 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 19:33:46 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Ronja kits for developing world
In-Reply-To: <20051006160941.GA4670@amphibian.dyndns.org>
References: <0EC586ED-1149-4BC0-A61F-3FE5757EC695@mac.com>
	<20051004115019.GB26455@kestrel>
	<20051004135602.GB7623@amphibian.dyndns.org>
	<20051004170150.GB18547@kestrel>
	<20051005004058.GB20736@amphibian.dyndns.org>
	<20051005144735.GI18730@kestrel>
	<20051005150632.GC29732@amphibian.dyndns.org>
	<20051006154432.GA6377@kestrel>
	<20051006160941.GA4670@amphibian.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <20051006173346.GA10050@kestrel>

On Thu, Oct 06, 2005 at 05:09:41PM +0100, Matthew Toseland wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 06, 2005 at 05:44:32PM +0200, Karel Kulhavy wrote:
> > On Wed, Oct 05, 2005 at 04:06:32PM +0100, Matthew Toseland wrote:
> > > Even paypal does here... you'd have to check, it might be different
> > > where you are.
> > 
> > Which paypal account should I create? Basic, premium or business?
> 
> Premium lets you take credit cards directly. Business lets you have

What does taking credit cards mean? Will I be able with basic to take
money from people with credit cards with Basic and cash in real money
time to time from Paypal without need for a credit card?

CL<


From clock at twibright.com  Thu Oct  6 19:10:07 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 20:10:07 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] about my final project
In-Reply-To: <353aafeb05090801471c88dc8d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <353aafeb05081708375c21ec2@mail.gmail.com>
	<20050819095313.GA11640@kestrel.twibright.com>
	<353aafeb0508210400563ff6bb@mail.gmail.com>
	<20050822090340.GA1891@kestrel>
	<353aafeb05082702013bee6e32@mail.gmail.com>
	<20050827160133.GA13926@kestrel>
	<353aafeb05090206065c8183be@mail.gmail.com>
	<20050902160854.GA31802@kestrel>
	<353aafeb05090801471c88dc8d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20051006181007.GC10324@kestrel>

On Thu, Sep 08, 2005 at 02:17:01PM +0530, vipul kalia wrote:
> hi karel now tell me about AUI how will we connect AUI to computer which 
> port will it use wheather it will be COM 1 or to lan card and what connector 

lan card with AUI connector.

> we will use well i got transmitter led 
> now will start making RONJA and also tell me will RONJA will 
> work with windows98/xp operating systems well that it for now 

Yes

> thank you well your help is very usefull to us well thank you again
>  bye 
> vipul

CL<
> 
>  On 9/2/05, Karel Kulhavy <clock at twibright.com> wrote: 
> > 
> > On Fri, Sep 02, 2005 at 06:36:31PM +0530, vipul kalia wrote:
> > > hey karel help needed again well tell me at 10mpbs the transmitter will
> > > appear continueously on so how will reciever know that its logical 1or
> > 
> > Appear for human eye only. Human eye is slow. Actually the transmitter
> > will turn light and dark in rhythm of 10Mbps.
> > 
> > > logical 0 and can you please mail me the data sheets of HPWT-BD00-F4000
> > > ,BPW43,all other main components because on ronja site there is broken 
> > link
> > 
> > http://ronja.twibright.com/datasheets/
> > 
> > > well please send some more stuff i am making RONJA as my final year 
> > project
> > > well
> > 
> > Look into ronja.twibright.com <http://ronja.twibright.com> website. What 
> > stuff is missing there?
> > 
> > > in india nobody has about it well when i showed project sysnopsis
> > > to my college they found it very good well please help me .
> > > if any other help may be needed i will mail
> > > sorry for trouble .
> > > thanks vipul
> > 
> > You're welcome.
> > 
> > CL<
> >


From pavkriz at gybon.cz  Thu Oct  6 20:57:08 2005
From: pavkriz at gybon.cz (pavkriz@gybon.cz)
Date: Thu,  6 Oct 2005 21:57:08 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] SW pro Ronja + Wifi backup
Message-ID: <1128628628.434581942dec1@www.gybon.cz>

Ahoj, na slidech z WSFII jsem si vsiml poznamky o "special SW" pro kombinaci
Ronja + zalozni WiFi.

Aktualne pouzivame pro prepinani mezi Ronjou a zaloznim WiFi spojem OSPF (stejne
jako v cele nasi siti). Bohuzel je zrejme ze OSPF neni schopno (ani pro to
nebylo navrzeno) objektivne rozhodnout o pouzitelnosti Ronjiho spoje pri
packetlossu!=100% a prohlasuje jej za nefunkcni pomerne "pozde" (podobna
vlastnost plati pro Wifi, nicmene u wifi nepovazujeme stav s neunosnym promennym
packetlosses za "provozni" zatimco u ronji se to z principu deje za mlh a podobne). 

Tudiz jsem pojal ideu vytvorit nejaky "monitor spoje", ktery bude prubezne na
spoj dohlizet a pripadne prekonfigurovavat (co nejrychleji) OSPF router (Zebra
Quagga).

Aktualne jsem ve stadiu mereni prubehu packetlossu pri vypadcich, abych mel
predstavu jak bude vhodne "dvoustavovy regulator s hysterezi" nastavit...

Dotaz tedy zni - tvoril nekdo uz neco podobneho (nerad vynalezam znovu kolo)?
Pripadne, mame lepsi recept? Pripominky, poznatky....?

English summary:
Idea about software Ronja-link monitoring and communication with OSPF router
(switching between backup wifi and Ronja according to Ronja's link state). Noted
disadvantages of Hello-packet link-state monitoring in OSPF for links with
possible non 100% packetloss. Request for comments and ideas :)

Pavel
HKFree.org





From m.malusek at seznam.cz  Thu Oct  6 22:52:56 2005
From: m.malusek at seznam.cz (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Michal_Malusek?=)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 23:52:56 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] SW pro Ronja + Wifi backup
References: <1128628628.434581942dec1@www.gybon.cz>
Message-ID: <001801c5cac0$4f9036b0$0103450a@thechosen>

ja driv nez sme nasadili ospf a zebru mel tenhle vlastni skriptik

two=10.69.111.2
ping $two -f -c 100 -A | grep "loss" | awk '{
    #if (substr($6, 0, index($6, "%")) > 25) {
    if ($4 < 75) {
        system("/root/switch-to-wifi");
    } else {
        system("/root/switch-to-ronja");
    };
}'

switch-to-wifi a ronja pak prehodili routovani

treba
ip route change default via 10.69.111.1

kdyz se to pak nakronuje na obou routerech co 5 minut tak to funguje velmi
pekne. mnohem lepe nez ospf ktere to fakr routuje doku projde hello packet
:/

pokud by si tim zmenil online cenu spoje v ospf tak preroutuje ospf na jinou
trasu, ze. kdyz se ti to povede dotahnout tak by to bylo super :) do toho
skriptu muzes dat i histerezi. ale mozna to je zbytecne.

Glo

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <pavkriz at gybon.cz>
To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005 9:57 PM
Subject: [Ronja] SW pro Ronja + Wifi backup


> Ahoj, na slidech z WSFII jsem si vsiml poznamky o "special SW" pro
kombinaci
> Ronja + zalozni WiFi.
>
> Aktualne pouzivame pro prepinani mezi Ronjou a zaloznim WiFi spojem OSPF
(stejne
> jako v cele nasi siti). Bohuzel je zrejme ze OSPF neni schopno (ani pro to
> nebylo navrzeno) objektivne rozhodnout o pouzitelnosti Ronjiho spoje pri
> packetlossu!=100% a prohlasuje jej za nefunkcni pomerne "pozde" (podobna
> vlastnost plati pro Wifi, nicmene u wifi nepovazujeme stav s neunosnym
promennym
> packetlosses za "provozni" zatimco u ronji se to z principu deje za mlh a
podobne).
>
> Tudiz jsem pojal ideu vytvorit nejaky "monitor spoje", ktery bude prubezne
na
> spoj dohlizet a pripadne prekonfigurovavat (co nejrychleji) OSPF router
(Zebra
> Quagga).
>
> Aktualne jsem ve stadiu mereni prubehu packetlossu pri vypadcich, abych
mel
> predstavu jak bude vhodne "dvoustavovy regulator s hysterezi" nastavit...
>
> Dotaz tedy zni - tvoril nekdo uz neco podobneho (nerad vynalezam znovu
kolo)?
> Pripadne, mame lepsi recept? Pripominky, poznatky....?
>
> English summary:
> Idea about software Ronja-link monitoring and communication with OSPF
router
> (switching between backup wifi and Ronja according to Ronja's link state).
Noted
> disadvantages of Hello-packet link-state monitoring in OSPF for links with
> possible non 100% packetloss. Request for comments and ideas :)
>
> Pavel
> HKFree.org
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>



From jakub.michnik at centrum.cz  Fri Oct  7 09:19:31 2005
From: jakub.michnik at centrum.cz (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jakub_Michn=EDk?=)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 10:19:31 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Are 310mm fresnel lens suitable for RX?
In-Reply-To: <43452891.8010905@seznam.cz>
References: <5713.7439-18547-202161306-1122306088@seznam.cz>	<200507260728.21264.zapadlo@melzer.cz>
	<43452891.8010905@seznam.cz>
Message-ID: <43462F93.5010204@centrum.cz>



SuperMaster napsal(a):
> Cauves, dorazily fresnelky z 3Dlens, konkretne A310a a A260. Ocekaval 
> jsem super kvalitu a jsem dost zklamany. A260 je prakticky nepouzitelna, 
> ma nejen dost hroznou kulovou vadu, ale ma i dost brutalni zkresleni, 
> ktery se projevuje tim, ze kdyz promitnu LEDku z ronji, ukaze se na zdi 
> takovy podivny obrazec, fakt vtipny, to snad nemyslej vazne. Je totiz 
> jakoby kriva, nektery mista jakoby zvetsujou vic nez jiny, proste hruza. 
> Urcite to bude tim, ze ma ohnisko jen 200mm, takze kazda vada se projevi 
> vic. A310a s 330mm ohniskem je o neco lepsi, pokusim se ji dat na RX. Se 
> 130mm vietcong lupou na TX to docela ujde, sice to neni kvalita tech 
> lup, ale ujde to, alespon to bude odolny proti vykyvum budov a drzaku. 
> Fakt by me ale zajimalo, co dam na TX,

ja sem koupil vetnamske 100mm, maji ohnisko okole 24cm

  protoze ty cinsky maj ohnisko asi
> 370, takze uplne naprd. Potrebuju nejlepe 130mm cocku s ohniskem kolem 
> 180-200, nevite o necem? Objevil jsem dalsi firmu www.fresneltech.com, 
> <http://www.fresneltech.com,> ale jsou desne drahy. Taky me dost 
> udivilo, ze kruznice ty 3D struktury jsou ekvidistatni, coz byt v zadnem 
> pripade nemaji, to bude zrejmne duvod ty kulovy vady. Pritom spocitat tu 
> 3D strukturu je tak snadny, napadlo me proto jestli bychom si nemohly ty 
> cocky nekde nechat vyrobit. Nevite o nejakym ultra presnym a hlavne 
> jemnym soustruhu? Mozna by slo pouzit CNC, ale nevim nevim. Pak uz by to 
> jen stacilo lisovat, to uz by stalo malo, doufam. Dalsi vec je, ze pro 
> nase pouziti by mohly byt ty groove pitch (neboli vyska tech 3D 
> struktur) pomerne dost velike, umim si predstavit klidne 3-5mm, nejen ze 
> by to slo lepe vyrobit, ale navic by se ztratilo mene svetla na tech 
> hranach.

to by bylo jednodussi udelat formu na obyc cocku nez na fresnelku ne? uz 
se to tu myslim diskutovalo, ale nebyla by dioptra schopna cocku na 
zakazku udelat?

> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 
> 
> 


From clock at twibright.com  Fri Oct  7 10:00:01 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 11:00:01 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] SW pro Ronja + Wifi backup
In-Reply-To: <001801c5cac0$4f9036b0$0103450a@thechosen>
References: <1128628628.434581942dec1@www.gybon.cz>
	<001801c5cac0$4f9036b0$0103450a@thechosen>
Message-ID: <20051007090001.GC26940@kestrel>

On Thu, Oct 06, 2005 at 11:52:56PM +0200, Michal Malusek wrote:
> ja driv nez sme nasadili ospf a zebru mel tenhle vlastni skriptik
> 
> two=10.69.111.2
> ping $two -f -c 100 -A | grep "loss" | awk '{
>     #if (substr($6, 0, index($6, "%")) > 25) {
>     if ($4 < 75) {
>         system("/root/switch-to-wifi");
>     } else {
>         system("/root/switch-to-ronja");
>     };
> }'

Can you put it on the wiki please?

CL<


From clock at twibright.com  Fri Oct  7 10:01:01 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 11:01:01 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Are 310mm fresnel lens suitable for RX?
In-Reply-To: <43462F93.5010204@centrum.cz>
References: <5713.7439-18547-202161306-1122306088@seznam.cz>
	<200507260728.21264.zapadlo@melzer.cz>
	<43452891.8010905@seznam.cz> <43462F93.5010204@centrum.cz>
Message-ID: <20051007090101.GD26940@kestrel>

On Fri, Oct 07, 2005 at 10:19:31AM +0200, Jakub Michn?k wrote:
> 
> 
> SuperMaster napsal(a):
> > Cauves, dorazily fresnelky z 3Dlens, konkretne A310a a A260. Ocekaval 
> > jsem super kvalitu a jsem dost zklamany. A260 je prakticky nepouzitelna, 
> > ma nejen dost hroznou kulovou vadu, ale ma i dost brutalni zkresleni, 
> > ktery se projevuje tim, ze kdyz promitnu LEDku z ronji, ukaze se na zdi 
> > takovy podivny obrazec, fakt vtipny, to snad nemyslej vazne. Je totiz 
> > jakoby kriva, nektery mista jakoby zvetsujou vic nez jiny, proste hruza. 
> > Urcite to bude tim, ze ma ohnisko jen 200mm, takze kazda vada se projevi 
> > vic. A310a s 330mm ohniskem je o neco lepsi, pokusim se ji dat na RX. Se 
> > 130mm vietcong lupou na TX to docela ujde, sice to neni kvalita tech 
> > lup, ale ujde to, alespon to bude odolny proti vykyvum budov a drzaku. 
> > Fakt by me ale zajimalo, co dam na TX,
> 
> ja sem koupil vetnamske 100mm, maji ohnisko okole 24cm
> 
>   protoze ty cinsky maj ohnisko asi
> > 370, takze uplne naprd. Potrebuju nejlepe 130mm cocku s ohniskem kolem 
> > 180-200, nevite o necem? Objevil jsem dalsi firmu www.fresneltech.com, 
> > <http://www.fresneltech.com,> ale jsou desne drahy. Taky me dost 
> > udivilo, ze kruznice ty 3D struktury jsou ekvidistatni, coz byt v zadnem 
> > pripade nemaji, to bude zrejmne duvod ty kulovy vady. Pritom spocitat tu 
> > 3D strukturu je tak snadny, napadlo me proto jestli bychom si nemohly ty 
> > cocky nekde nechat vyrobit. Nevite o nejakym ultra presnym a hlavne 
> > jemnym soustruhu? Mozna by slo pouzit CNC, ale nevim nevim. Pak uz by to 
> > jen stacilo lisovat, to uz by stalo malo, doufam. Dalsi vec je, ze pro 
> > nase pouziti by mohly byt ty groove pitch (neboli vyska tech 3D 
> > struktur) pomerne dost velike, umim si predstavit klidne 3-5mm, nejen ze 
> > by to slo lepe vyrobit, ale navic by se ztratilo mene svetla na tech 
> > hranach.
> 
> to by bylo jednodussi udelat formu na obyc cocku nez na fresnelku ne? uz 
> se to tu myslim diskutovalo, ale nebyla by dioptra schopna cocku na 
> zakazku udelat?

You can buy their quality 130mm loupes not much expensive see Ronja Wiki.

CL<


From m.malusek at seznam.cz  Fri Oct  7 10:18:45 2005
From: m.malusek at seznam.cz (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Michal_Malusek?=)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 11:18:45 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] SW pro Ronja + Wifi backup
References: <1128628628.434581942dec1@www.gybon.cz>
	<001801c5cac0$4f9036b0$0103450a@thechosen>
	<20051007090001.GC26940@kestrel>
Message-ID: <000d01c5cb20$1eb86480$0103450a@thechosen>

hmmm mohl ale nevim kam a jak. wiki nemam rad. hroznej kus softwaru. sorry.

Glo

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Karel Kulhavy" <clock at twibright.com>
To: "Michal Malusek" <m.malusek at seznam.cz>; "Twibright Ronja"
<ronja at lists.pointless.net>
Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 11:00 AM
Subject: Re: [Ronja] SW pro Ronja + Wifi backup


> On Thu, Oct 06, 2005 at 11:52:56PM +0200, Michal Malusek wrote:
> > ja driv nez sme nasadili ospf a zebru mel tenhle vlastni skriptik
> >
> > two=10.69.111.2
> > ping $two -f -c 100 -A | grep "loss" | awk '{
> >     #if (substr($6, 0, index($6, "%")) > 25) {
> >     if ($4 < 75) {
> >         system("/root/switch-to-wifi");
> >     } else {
> >         system("/root/switch-to-ronja");
> >     };
> > }'
>
> Can you put it on the wiki please?
>
> CL<
>



From clock at twibright.com  Fri Oct  7 10:53:57 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 11:53:57 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] SW pro Ronja + Wifi backup
In-Reply-To: <000d01c5cb20$1eb86480$0103450a@thechosen>
References: <1128628628.434581942dec1@www.gybon.cz>
	<001801c5cac0$4f9036b0$0103450a@thechosen>
	<20051007090001.GC26940@kestrel>
	<000d01c5cb20$1eb86480$0103450a@thechosen>
Message-ID: <20051007095357.GA31203@kestrel>

On Fri, Oct 07, 2005 at 11:18:45AM +0200, Michal Malusek wrote:
> hmmm mohl ale nevim kam a jak. wiki nemam rad. hroznej kus softwaru. sorry.

With migration from TWiki to Mediawiki the necessity to create an
account and log in was removed so you can just press "Edit" on existing
page and it still isn't easy enough for you to add it there ;-)

Mediawiki is the exact piece of software Wikipedia is runing on.

CL<

> 
> Glo
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Karel Kulhavy" <clock at twibright.com>
> To: "Michal Malusek" <m.malusek at seznam.cz>; "Twibright Ronja"
> <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
> Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 11:00 AM
> Subject: Re: [Ronja] SW pro Ronja + Wifi backup
> 
> 
> > On Thu, Oct 06, 2005 at 11:52:56PM +0200, Michal Malusek wrote:
> > > ja driv nez sme nasadili ospf a zebru mel tenhle vlastni skriptik
> > >
> > > two=10.69.111.2
> > > ping $two -f -c 100 -A | grep "loss" | awk '{
> > >     #if (substr($6, 0, index($6, "%")) > 25) {
> > >     if ($4 < 75) {
> > >         system("/root/switch-to-wifi");
> > >     } else {
> > >         system("/root/switch-to-ronja");
> > >     };
> > > }'
> >
> > Can you put it on the wiki please?
> >
> > CL<
> >
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From clock at twibright.com  Fri Oct  7 15:02:55 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 16:02:55 +0200
Subject: [Ronja]
	=?iso-8859-2?q?korektnost_nebo_nekorektnost_tp_p=F8ij=EDm?=
	=?iso-8859-2?q?a=E8e?=
In-Reply-To: <200510071406.35019.ladmanj@volny.cz>
References: <200510071406.35019.ladmanj@volny.cz>
Message-ID: <20051007140255.GA8062@kestrel>

On Fri, Oct 07, 2005 at 02:06:34PM +0200, Jakub Ladman wrote:
> Jak ty jsi dosp?l k tomu, ?e m?? zapojen? ten p?ij?ma? s AM26LS32A plusem na 
> m?nus a m?nusem na plus sign?lu? 

To je jedno jak se to zapoj?. Ten p?ij?ma? je symetrickej.

> D?ky absenci technick?ho popisu funkce, j? to pova?oval za zjednodu?en? n?kde 
> na stran? logiky, jako ?e do dal??ho ?lenu by to stejn? muselo j?t 
> invertovan?, tak to prohodil tady.
> Jen?e skute?nost je zjevn? jin?, nebo nen??
> J? jsem to zapojil p??mo s t?m ?e si to m??u "v xilinxu invertovat kolikr?t 
> chci" , ale on se ten p?ij?ma? chov? jinak kdy? je obr?cen? a kdy? ne.

Jak jinak? M??e? popsat konkr?tn?? Se nem? co chovat jinak.

> Proto jsem tam p?idal ten pull-up, kter? jsi kritizoval.
> Tak?e te? je v m?m zapojen? stejnosm?rn? bias +155mV na invertuj?c?m vstupu a 
> u tebe +0,6mV na neinvertuj?c?m. 155mV je asi fakt moc, to mus?m uznat.

No to teda je fakt moc. To je p?knej crap ;-)

> Ka?dop?dn? mnou pou?it? DS3486 m? takt?? schmittovy KO (hysterezi) na  
> vstupech - to k t? tvoj? dal?? pozn?mce. 

J? u? si nepamatuju jestli jsem se koukal na DS3486 a vy?adil jsem ho
kvuli tomu ?e se nehod? a nebo jen proto ?e m? jinej pinout. Ka?dop?dn?
kdy? to ud?l?? jako v Twisteru tak to bude chodit. Ani nevim jestli
m? DS3486 shit trigger nebo ne.

> V budouc? verzi, bude polarita oto?ena a bude p?id?no m?sto pro mo?nost 
> osazen? 100k (nebo i v?t??ho) pull-up rezistoru, kter? na rozd?l od AM26LS32A 
> nen? v ostatn?ch kompatibiln?ch p?ij?ma??ch integrov?n. Aby bylo mo?no pou??t 
> kter?koli z nich.

??dnou takovou sra?ku tam nechci ;-)

> Ten pull-down na druh?m vstupu p?ij?ma?e se podle mne nijak neprojevuje.

Projevuje se to deterministick?m jitterem -> sn??en? dosahu.

> 
> Proto se pt?m na dal?? mi unikaj?c? skute?nosti, aby v budouc? verzi desky to 
> ji? mohlo b?t 100%
> Pro?, d?l?? vstupn? sign?l v ka?d? v?tvi 12:51 (na d?li?i 39R a 12R) kdy? 
> p?ij?ma? nem? povolenou amplitudu sign?lu tak n?zko?
> J? osobn? jsem u sebe po?ad? t?ch odpor? p?ehodil a tak sign?l d?l?m jen 
> 39:51.
> Je to podle tebe ?patn?? Pro??

J? si to u? nepamatuju. Jenom si pamatuju ?e jsem to pe?liv?
propo??t?val podle datasheet?.

CL<


From clock at twibright.com  Fri Oct  7 15:10:32 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 16:10:32 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Your concerns about Twister
Message-ID: <20051007141032.GA8161@kestrel>

Hi Jakub

As you said you doubt about correctness of the voltage divider on
Twister's input from PC network card, can you give the arguments which
lead you to this concern (i. e. particular receiver type and NIC output
voltage at the input range of the differential receiver is violated)?

CL<


From ladmanj at volny.cz  Fri Oct  7 15:41:43 2005
From: ladmanj at volny.cz (Jakub Ladman)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 16:41:43 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] =?iso-8859-2?q?korektnost_nebo_nekorektnost_tp_p=F8ij=EDm?=
	=?iso-8859-2?q?a=E8e?=
Message-ID: <200510071641.43358.ladmanj@volny.cz>

Jak ty jsi dosp?l k tomu, ?e m?? zapojen? ten p?ij?ma? s AM26LS32A plusem na 
m?nus a m?nusem na plus sign?lu? 
D?ky absenci technick?ho popisu funkce, j? to pova?oval za zjednodu?en? n?kde 
na stran? logiky, jako ?e do dal??ho ?lenu by to stejn? muselo j?t 
invertovan?, tak to prohodil tady.
Jen?e skute?nost je zjevn? jin?, nebo nen??
J? jsem to zapojil p??mo s t?m ?e si to m??u "v xilinxu invertovat kolikr?t 
chci" , ale on se ten p?ij?ma? chov? jinak kdy? je obr?cen? a kdy? ne.
Proto jsem tam p?idal ten pull-up, kter? jsi kritizoval.
Tak?e te? je v m?m zapojen? stejnosm?rn? bias +155mV na invertuj?c?m vstupu a 
u tebe +0,6mV na neinvertuj?c?m. 155mV je asi fakt moc, to mus?m uznat.
Ka?dop?dn? mnou pou?it? DS3486 m? takt?? schmittovy KO (hysterezi) na  
vstupech - to k t? tvoj? dal?? pozn?mce. 
V budouc? verzi, bude polarita oto?ena a bude p?id?no m?sto pro mo?nost 
osazen? 100k (nebo i v?t??ho) pull-up rezistoru, kter? na rozd?l od AM26LS32A 
nen? v ostatn?ch kompatibiln?ch p?ij?ma??ch integrov?n. Aby bylo mo?no pou??t 
kter?koli z nich.
Ten pull-down na druh?m vstupu p?ij?ma?e se podle mne nijak neprojevuje.

Proto se pt?m na dal?? mi unikaj?c? skute?nosti, aby v budouc? verzi desky to 
ji? mohlo b?t 100%
Pro?, d?l?? vstupn? sign?l v ka?d? v?tvi 12:51 (na d?li?i 39R a 12R) kdy? 
p?ij?ma? nem? povolenou amplitudu sign?lu tak n?zko?
J? osobn? jsem u sebe po?ad? t?ch odpor? p?ehodil a tak sign?l d?l?m jen 
39:51.
Je to podle tebe ?patn?? Pro??

Jakub


From ladmanj at volny.cz  Fri Oct  7 15:41:53 2005
From: ladmanj at volny.cz (Jakub Ladman)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 16:41:53 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Your concerns about Twister
In-Reply-To: <20051007141032.GA8161@kestrel>
References: <20051007141032.GA8161@kestrel>
Message-ID: <200510071641.53333.ladmanj@volny.cz>

Dne p? 7. ??jna 2005 16:10 jste napsal(a):
> Hi Jakub
>
> As you said you doubt about correctness of the voltage divider on
> Twister's input from PC network card, can you give the arguments which
> lead you to this concern (i. e. particular receiver type and NIC output
> voltage at the input range of the differential receiver is violated)?
>
> CL<
Zv??en?m amplitudy na vstupech diferenci?ln?ho p?ij?ma?e jsem sledoval zv??en? 
jistoty. Nap??klad odolnosti proti ru?en? po nap?jen? p?ij?ma?e nebo k?ho 
v?ra. Prost? to sni?ov?n? mi p?i?lo zbyte?n?, kdy? p?ij?ma? m??e na ka?d?m 
vstupu sn?st a? 7V nebo kolik, te? do toho nekouk?m.
Jakub


From ladmanj at volny.cz  Fri Oct  7 15:44:30 2005
From: ladmanj at volny.cz (Jakub Ladman)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 16:44:30 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] korektnost nebo nekorektnost tp
	=?iso-8859-2?q?p=F8ij=EDma=E8e?=
In-Reply-To: <20051007140255.GA8062@kestrel>
References: <200510071406.35019.ladmanj@volny.cz>
	<20051007140255.GA8062@kestrel>
Message-ID: <200510071644.30158.ladmanj@volny.cz>

BTW: stra?n? m? sere, kdy? n?kdo odpov?d? ani? by si to po??dn? p?e?etl.
P?izn?v?m ale, ?e semtam se mi to taky stane.

Dne p? 7. ??jna 2005 16:02 Karel Kulhavy napsal(a):
> On Fri, Oct 07, 2005 at 02:06:34PM +0200, Jakub Ladman wrote:
> > Jak ty jsi dosp?l k tomu, ?e m?? zapojen? ten p?ij?ma? s AM26LS32A plusem
> > na m?nus a m?nusem na plus sign?lu?
>
> To je jedno jak se to zapoj?. Ten p?ij?ma? je symetrickej.
>
> > D?ky absenci technick?ho popisu funkce, j? to pova?oval za zjednodu?en?
> > n?kde na stran? logiky, jako ?e do dal??ho ?lenu by to stejn? muselo j?t
> > invertovan?, tak to prohodil tady.
> > Jen?e skute?nost je zjevn? jin?, nebo nen??
> > J? jsem to zapojil p??mo s t?m ?e si to m??u "v xilinxu invertovat
> > kolikr?t chci" , ale on se ten p?ij?ma? chov? jinak kdy? je obr?cen? a
> > kdy? ne.
>
> Jak jinak? M??e? popsat konkr?tn?? Se nem? co chovat jinak.
>
> > Proto jsem tam p?idal ten pull-up, kter? jsi kritizoval.
> > Tak?e te? je v m?m zapojen? stejnosm?rn? bias +155mV na invertuj?c?m
> > vstupu a u tebe +0,6mV na neinvertuj?c?m. 155mV je asi fakt moc, to mus?m
> > uznat.
>
> No to teda je fakt moc. To je p?knej crap ;-)
>
> > Ka?dop?dn? mnou pou?it? DS3486 m? takt?? schmittovy KO (hysterezi) na
> > vstupech - to k t? tvoj? dal?? pozn?mce.
>
> J? u? si nepamatuju jestli jsem se koukal na DS3486 a vy?adil jsem ho
> kvuli tomu ?e se nehod? a nebo jen proto ?e m? jinej pinout. Ka?dop?dn?
> kdy? to ud?l?? jako v Twisteru tak to bude chodit. Ani nevim jestli
> m? DS3486 shit trigger nebo ne.
>
> > V budouc? verzi, bude polarita oto?ena a bude p?id?no m?sto pro mo?nost
> > osazen? 100k (nebo i v?t??ho) pull-up rezistoru, kter? na rozd?l od
> > AM26LS32A nen? v ostatn?ch kompatibiln?ch p?ij?ma??ch integrov?n. Aby
> > bylo mo?no pou??t kter?koli z nich.
>
> ??dnou takovou sra?ku tam nechci ;-)
>
> > Ten pull-down na druh?m vstupu p?ij?ma?e se podle mne nijak neprojevuje.
>
> Projevuje se to deterministick?m jitterem -> sn??en? dosahu.
>
> > Proto se pt?m na dal?? mi unikaj?c? skute?nosti, aby v budouc? verzi
> > desky to ji? mohlo b?t 100%
> > Pro?, d?l?? vstupn? sign?l v ka?d? v?tvi 12:51 (na d?li?i 39R a 12R) kdy?
> > p?ij?ma? nem? povolenou amplitudu sign?lu tak n?zko?
> > J? osobn? jsem u sebe po?ad? t?ch odpor? p?ehodil a tak sign?l d?l?m jen
> > 39:51.
> > Je to podle tebe ?patn?? Pro??
>
> J? si to u? nepamatuju. Jenom si pamatuju ?e jsem to pe?liv?
> propo??t?val podle datasheet?.
>
> CL<
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From clock at twibright.com  Fri Oct  7 16:02:14 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 17:02:14 +0200
Subject: [Ronja]
	=?iso-8859-2?q?korektnost_nebo_nekorektnost_tp_p=F8ij=EDm?=
	=?iso-8859-2?q?a=E8e?=
In-Reply-To: <200510071634.53993.ladmanj@volny.cz>
References: <200510071406.35019.ladmanj@volny.cz>
	<20051007140255.GA8062@kestrel>
	<200510071634.53993.ladmanj@volny.cz>
Message-ID: <20051007150214.GA10503@kestrel>

On Fri, Oct 07, 2005 at 04:34:53PM +0200, Jakub Ladman wrote:
> No tak si ho p?idej do parametr? twistera, proto?e AM26LS32A m? na ka?d?m 
> neinvertuj?c?m vstupu 100k pull-up a na ka?d?m invertuj?c?m 100k pull-down.
> 
> Jestli o tom nev??, tak si fakt dobrej!!!!!!!.

Aha - d?ky za upozorn?n?, nev?im sem si toho. To sou teda paka to se
nevid?.

P??u do buglistu ?e se na to do Twistera mus? p?id?lat kompenzace:
http://ronja-svn.wservices.ch/report/ticket/59#preview

Nicm?n? proti 12 nebo 330 ohm?m do zem? tyhle odpory nemaj moc ?anci ;-)

> 
> DS3486, AM26LS32, i AM26LS32A v?echny maj? schmitt trigger, jenom AM26LS32A m? 
> ty pull-up a downy.

M? DS3486 jinej pinout ne? AM26LS32A? J? si pamatuju ?e jsem n?jak
cht?l enhancnout Twistera aby se tam daly pou??t tyhle (nebo
DS3487) ale nedostal jsem se k tomu je?t?...

> 
> DS3486 m? podivnou vlastnost kterou jsme objevili ve spolupr?ci se Silvijem, 
> ?e pokud se nezapoj? + TP na - vstup, tak n?m neproch?z? jednotliv? <100ns 
> pulsy, obr?cen? ano.

Isn't it just too slow?

CL<


From ladmanj at volny.cz  Fri Oct  7 16:14:12 2005
From: ladmanj at volny.cz (Jakub Ladman)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 17:14:12 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] korektnost nebo nekorektnost tp
	=?iso-8859-2?q?p=F8ij=EDma=E8e?=
In-Reply-To: <20051007150214.GA10503@kestrel>
References: <200510071406.35019.ladmanj@volny.cz>
	<200510071634.53993.ladmanj@volny.cz>
	<20051007150214.GA10503@kestrel>
Message-ID: <200510071714.12572.ladmanj@volny.cz>

> M? DS3486 jinej pinout ne? AM26LS32A? J? si pamatuju ?e jsem n?jak
> cht?l enhancnout Twistera aby se tam daly pou??t tyhle (nebo
> DS3487) ale nedostal jsem se k tomu je?t?...

Pinout se li?? jen tak, ?e AM26XX povoluje v?echny ?ty?i sekce najednou, pokud 
(G1 | (~G2)) a MC348x m? dv? a dv? sekce povolov?ny zvl???.
G1 v log 1 povoluje dv? sekce a G2 v log 1 povoluje zbyl? dv? sekce. 
A z toho plyne, ?e pokud se na desce G1 i G2 p?ipoj? na log 1, bude tam chodit 
jak AM26LSXX tak MC348X

Jakub


From clock at twibright.com  Fri Oct  7 16:33:44 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 17:33:44 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] korektnost =?iso-8859-2?Q?nebo?=
	=?iso-8859-2?Q?_nekorektnost_tp_p=F8ij=EDma=E8e?=
In-Reply-To: <200510071714.12572.ladmanj@volny.cz>
References: <200510071406.35019.ladmanj@volny.cz>
	<200510071634.53993.ladmanj@volny.cz>
	<20051007150214.GA10503@kestrel>
	<200510071714.12572.ladmanj@volny.cz>
Message-ID: <20051007153344.GB11711@kestrel>

On Fri, Oct 07, 2005 at 05:14:12PM +0200, Jakub Ladman wrote:
> > M? DS3486 jinej pinout ne? AM26LS32A? J? si pamatuju ?e jsem n?jak
> > cht?l enhancnout Twistera aby se tam daly pou??t tyhle (nebo
> > DS3487) ale nedostal jsem se k tomu je?t?...
> 
> Pinout se li?? jen tak, ?e AM26XX povoluje v?echny ?ty?i sekce najednou, pokud 
> (G1 | (~G2)) a MC348x m? dv? a dv? sekce povolov?ny zvl???.
> G1 v log 1 povoluje dv? sekce a G2 v log 1 povoluje zbyl? dv? sekce. 
> A z toho plyne, ?e pokud se na desce G1 i G2 p?ipoj? na log 1, bude tam chodit 
> jak AM26LSXX tak MC348X

A to se tyka prijimaci nebo vysilacu nebo obojiho?

To je asi to co jsem chtel kdysi udelat... ;-)

CL<


From ladmanj at volny.cz  Fri Oct  7 16:47:53 2005
From: ladmanj at volny.cz (Jakub Ladman)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 17:47:53 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] korektnost nebo nekorektnost tp
	=?iso-8859-2?q?p=F8ij=EDma=E8e?=
In-Reply-To: <20051007150214.GA10503@kestrel>
References: <200510071406.35019.ladmanj@volny.cz>
	<200510071634.53993.ladmanj@volny.cz>
	<20051007150214.GA10503@kestrel>
Message-ID: <200510071747.53386.ladmanj@volny.cz>

> Aha - d?ky za upozorn?n?, nev?im sem si toho. To sou teda paka to se
> nevid?.
>
> P??u do buglistu ?e se na to do Twistera mus? p?id?lat kompenzace:
> http://ronja-svn.wservices.ch/report/ticket/59#preview

Nebylo by sp?? lep?? pou??t p?ij?ma? bez t?ch pull-up/down odpor??
M??e? pros?m n?jak exaktn? vysv?tlit, pro? do twistra pat?? pouze A?kov? verze 
p?ij?ma?e?

Jakub


From ladmanj at volny.cz  Fri Oct  7 16:50:59 2005
From: ladmanj at volny.cz (Jakub Ladman)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 17:50:59 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] korektnost nebo nekorektnost tp
	=?iso-8859-2?q?p=F8ij=EDma=E8e?=
In-Reply-To: <20051007153344.GB11711@kestrel>
References: <200510071406.35019.ladmanj@volny.cz>
	<200510071714.12572.ladmanj@volny.cz>
	<20051007153344.GB11711@kestrel>
Message-ID: <200510071750.59876.ladmanj@volny.cz>

Dne p? 7. ??jna 2005 17:33 Karel Kulhavy napsal(a):
> > Pinout se li?? jen tak, ?e AM26XX povoluje v?echny ?ty?i sekce najednou,
> > pokud (G1 | (~G2)) a MC348x m? dv? a dv? sekce povolov?ny zvl???.
> > G1 v log 1 povoluje dv? sekce a G2 v log 1 povoluje zbyl? dv? sekce.
> > A z toho plyne, ?e pokud se na desce G1 i G2 p?ipoj? na log 1, bude tam
> > chodit jak AM26LSXX tak MC348X
>
> A to se tyka prijimaci nebo vysilacu nebo obojiho?

Obojiho a tady na ML uz jsem to cca pred pul rokem psal.
Jakub


From strohel at hotmail.com  Fri Oct  7 17:35:21 2005
From: strohel at hotmail.com (Matej Laitl)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 18:35:21 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] SW pro Ronja + Wifi backup - another solution
References: <1128628628.434581942dec1@www.gybon.cz>
Message-ID: <BAY18-DAV10403AA0E40AE412071161B4840@phx.gbl>

Other possible solution could be using Linux kernel's bonding driver. The
attached file is from current linux kernel (2.6.13) documentation.
I haven't tested it, it is only a possibility.

----- Original Message -----
From: <pavkriz at gybon.cz>
To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005 9:57 PM
Subject: [Ronja] SW pro Ronja + Wifi backup


> Ahoj, na slidech z WSFII jsem si vsiml poznamky o "special SW" pro
kombinaci
> Ronja + zalozni WiFi.
>
> Aktualne pouzivame pro prepinani mezi Ronjou a zaloznim WiFi spojem OSPF
(stejne
> jako v cele nasi siti). Bohuzel je zrejme ze OSPF neni schopno (ani pro to
> nebylo navrzeno) objektivne rozhodnout o pouzitelnosti Ronjiho spoje pri
> packetlossu!=100% a prohlasuje jej za nefunkcni pomerne "pozde" (podobna
> vlastnost plati pro Wifi, nicmene u wifi nepovazujeme stav s neunosnym
promennym
> packetlosses za "provozni" zatimco u ronji se to z principu deje za mlh a
podobne).
>
> Tudiz jsem pojal ideu vytvorit nejaky "monitor spoje", ktery bude prubezne
na
> spoj dohlizet a pripadne prekonfigurovavat (co nejrychleji) OSPF router
(Zebra
> Quagga).
>
> Aktualne jsem ve stadiu mereni prubehu packetlossu pri vypadcich, abych
mel
> predstavu jak bude vhodne "dvoustavovy regulator s hysterezi" nastavit...
>
> Dotaz tedy zni - tvoril nekdo uz neco podobneho (nerad vynalezam znovu
kolo)?
> Pripadne, mame lepsi recept? Pripominky, poznatky....?
>
> English summary:
> Idea about software Ronja-link monitoring and communication with OSPF
router
> (switching between backup wifi and Ronja according to Ronja's link state).
Noted
> disadvantages of Hello-packet link-state monitoring in OSPF for links with
> possible non 100% packetloss. Request for comments and ideas :)
>
> Pavel
> HKFree.org
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>
------------- dal?? ??st ---------------
An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed...
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Url: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20051007/f0c994ea/bonding-0001.txt

From clock at twibright.com  Fri Oct  7 18:22:01 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 19:22:01 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] korektnost =?iso-8859-2?Q?nebo?=
	=?iso-8859-2?Q?_nekorektnost_tp_p=F8ij=EDma=E8e?=
In-Reply-To: <200510071747.53386.ladmanj@volny.cz>
References: <200510071406.35019.ladmanj@volny.cz>
	<200510071634.53993.ladmanj@volny.cz>
	<20051007150214.GA10503@kestrel>
	<200510071747.53386.ladmanj@volny.cz>
Message-ID: <20051007172201.GD14694@kestrel>

On Fri, Oct 07, 2005 at 05:47:53PM +0200, Jakub Ladman wrote:
> > Aha - d?ky za upozorn?n?, nev?im sem si toho. To sou teda paka to se
> > nevid?.
> >
> > P??u do buglistu ?e se na to do Twistera mus? p?id?lat kompenzace:
> > http://ronja-svn.wservices.ch/report/ticket/59#preview
> 
> Nebylo by sp?? lep?? pou??t p?ij?ma? bez t?ch pull-up/down odpor??
> M??e? pros?m n?jak exaktn? vysv?tlit, pro? do twistra pat?? pouze A?kov? verze 
> p?ij?ma?e?

Protoze ta neackova u nekterejch nebo vsech vyrobcu nema shit trigger tusim.

CL<


From clock at twibright.com  Fri Oct  7 18:22:17 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 19:22:17 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] korektnost =?iso-8859-2?Q?nebo?=
	=?iso-8859-2?Q?_nekorektnost_tp_p=F8ij=EDma=E8e?=
In-Reply-To: <200510071747.53386.ladmanj@volny.cz>
References: <200510071406.35019.ladmanj@volny.cz>
	<200510071634.53993.ladmanj@volny.cz>
	<20051007150214.GA10503@kestrel>
	<200510071747.53386.ladmanj@volny.cz>
Message-ID: <20051007172217.GE14694@kestrel>

On Fri, Oct 07, 2005 at 05:47:53PM +0200, Jakub Ladman wrote:
> > Aha - d?ky za upozorn?n?, nev?im sem si toho. To sou teda paka to se
> > nevid?.
> >
> > P??u do buglistu ?e se na to do Twistera mus? p?id?lat kompenzace:
> > http://ronja-svn.wservices.ch/report/ticket/59#preview
> 
> Nebylo by sp?? lep?? pou??t p?ij?ma? bez t?ch pull-up/down odpor??

No tim by se zase zredukovala sehnatelnost.

CL<


From clock at twibright.com  Fri Oct  7 18:22:46 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 19:22:46 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] korektnost =?iso-8859-2?Q?nebo?=
	=?iso-8859-2?Q?_nekorektnost_tp_p=F8ij=EDma=E8e?=
In-Reply-To: <200510071750.59876.ladmanj@volny.cz>
References: <200510071406.35019.ladmanj@volny.cz>
	<200510071714.12572.ladmanj@volny.cz>
	<20051007153344.GB11711@kestrel>
	<200510071750.59876.ladmanj@volny.cz>
Message-ID: <20051007172246.GA14829@kestrel>

On Fri, Oct 07, 2005 at 05:50:59PM +0200, Jakub Ladman wrote:
> Dne p? 7. ??jna 2005 17:33 Karel Kulhavy napsal(a):
> > > Pinout se li?? jen tak, ?e AM26XX povoluje v?echny ?ty?i sekce najednou,
> > > pokud (G1 | (~G2)) a MC348x m? dv? a dv? sekce povolov?ny zvl???.
> > > G1 v log 1 povoluje dv? sekce a G2 v log 1 povoluje zbyl? dv? sekce.
> > > A z toho plyne, ?e pokud se na desce G1 i G2 p?ipoj? na log 1, bude tam
> > > chodit jak AM26LSXX tak MC348X
> >
> > A to se tyka prijimaci nebo vysilacu nebo obojiho?
> 
> Obojiho a tady na ML uz jsem to cca pred pul rokem psal.
> Jakub

Muzes dat ticket na Trac please?

CL<


From ladmanj at volny.cz  Fri Oct  7 18:31:39 2005
From: ladmanj at volny.cz (Jakub Ladman)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 19:31:39 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] korektnost nebo nekorektnost tp
	=?iso-8859-2?q?p=F8ij=EDma=E8e?=
In-Reply-To: <20051007172246.GA14829@kestrel>
References: <200510071406.35019.ladmanj@volny.cz>
	<200510071750.59876.ladmanj@volny.cz>
	<20051007172246.GA14829@kestrel>
Message-ID: <200510071931.40112.ladmanj@volny.cz>

On Friday 07 of October 2005 19:22, Karel Kulhavy wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 07, 2005 at 05:50:59PM +0200, Jakub Ladman wrote:
> > Dne p? 7. ??jna 2005 17:33 Karel Kulhavy napsal(a):
> > > > Pinout se li?? jen tak, ?e AM26XX povoluje v?echny ?ty?i sekce
> > > > najednou, pokud (G1 | (~G2)) a MC348x m? dv? a dv? sekce povolov?ny
> > > > zvl???. G1 v log 1 povoluje dv? sekce a G2 v log 1 povoluje zbyl? dv?
> > > > sekce. A z toho plyne, ?e pokud se na desce G1 i G2 p?ipoj? na log 1,
> > > > bude tam chodit jak AM26LSXX tak MC348X
> > >
> > > A to se tyka prijimaci nebo vysilacu nebo obojiho?
> >
> > Obojiho a tady na ML uz jsem to cca pred pul rokem psal.
> > Jakub
>
> Muzes dat ticket na Trac please?
Co?


From clock at twibright.com  Fri Oct  7 18:53:55 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 19:53:55 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] New revision of Twister PCB
Message-ID: <20051007175355.GA15376@kestrel>

I have made new revision of Twister PCB
1) support for DIL-8 XTAL oscillators (I hope they have the same
pinout)
2) PC/switch/loopback silkscreen labels added to connectors for people
who want to use jumpers instead of switches.

CL<


From clock at twibright.com  Fri Oct  7 18:25:15 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 19:25:15 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Your concerns about Twister
In-Reply-To: <200510071641.53333.ladmanj@volny.cz>
References: <20051007141032.GA8161@kestrel>
	<200510071641.53333.ladmanj@volny.cz>
Message-ID: <20051007172515.GB14829@kestrel>

On Fri, Oct 07, 2005 at 04:41:53PM +0200, Jakub Ladman wrote:
> Dne p? 7. ??jna 2005 16:10 jste napsal(a):
> > Hi Jakub
> >
> > As you said you doubt about correctness of the voltage divider on
> > Twister's input from PC network card, can you give the arguments which
> > lead you to this concern (i. e. particular receiver type and NIC output
> > voltage at the input range of the differential receiver is violated)?
> >
> > CL<
> Zv??en?m amplitudy na vstupech diferenci?ln?ho p?ij?ma?e jsem sledoval zv??en? 
> jistoty. Nap??klad odolnosti proti ru?en? po nap?jen? p?ij?ma?e nebo k?ho 
> v?ra. Prost? to sni?ov?n? mi p?i?lo zbyte?n?, kdy? p?ij?ma? m??e na ka?d?m 

Jenze to kdy? pani Vom??kov? zapne svuj p?edpotopn? f?n a ud?l? ?pi?ku
na UTP, tak i ta ?pi?ka bude v?t?? a tim p?dem to p?ij?ma? sn?z
zaregistruje. J? sem se sna?il o n?jak? rozumn? kompromis aby to zase
na takov? sra?ky nebylo p?ecitliv?l?.

CL<


From Seligr at sh.cvut.cz  Fri Oct  7 19:50:37 2005
From: Seligr at sh.cvut.cz (Seligr@sh.cvut.cz)
Date: Fri,  7 Oct 2005 20:50:37 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] New revision of Twister PCB
In-Reply-To: <20051007175355.GA15376@kestrel>
References: <20051007175355.GA15376@kestrel>
Message-ID: <1128711037.4346c37d952de@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>

Cituji z emailu od Karel Kulhavy <clock at twibright.com>:

> I have made new revision of Twister PCB
> 1) support for DIL-8 XTAL oscillators (I hope they have the same
> pinout)
> 2) PC/switch/loopback silkscreen labels added to connectors for people
> who want to use jumpers instead of switches.
> 
> CL<
> 

A nechtelo by se ti udelat jeste par drobnych uprav?
1) Zkratit "kralovskou cesticku" pres C84.
2) Pridat patch 100N kondik tesne k pinum 1-4 CONN53.
3) Posunout elyt C57 aby si nevadil s U64.
4) Dat vyvody pro LED na jeden 6ti pinovy konetor.
5) C87 zrusit bez nahrady.

6) (Zbozne prani) predelat stabilizator do leveho horniho rohu (jak je LED D59)
aby lezel na desce a nechal se prisroubovat na distancni sloupek.

Petr



From petr.cipis at tiscali.cz  Fri Oct  7 19:51:57 2005
From: petr.cipis at tiscali.cz (Cipis)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 20:51:57 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Your concerns about Twister
References: <20051007141032.GA8161@kestrel><200510071641.53333.ladmanj@volny.cz>
	<20051007172515.GB14829@kestrel>
Message-ID: <005801c5cb70$315a3be0$4d46a8c0@cipis.net>

No jo, ale ta spicka bude na vsech dratech a jelikoz je to diferencialni,
tak by to prijimac nemel vubec zaregistrovat.
Tohle je vlastne duvod, proc se preslo z koaxu na krouceny par.

Cipis


----- Original Message -----
From: "Karel Kulhavy" <clock at twibright.com>
To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 7:25 PM
Subject: Re: [Ronja] Your concerns about Twister


On Fri, Oct 07, 2005 at 04:41:53PM +0200, Jakub Ladman wrote:
> Dne p? 7. ??jna 2005 16:10 jste napsal(a):
> > Hi Jakub
> >
> > As you said you doubt about correctness of the voltage divider on
> > Twister's input from PC network card, can you give the arguments which
> > lead you to this concern (i. e. particular receiver type and NIC output
> > voltage at the input range of the differential receiver is violated)?
> >
> > CL<
> Zv??en?m amplitudy na vstupech diferenci?ln?ho p?ij?ma?e jsem sledoval
zv??en?
> jistoty. Nap??klad odolnosti proti ru?en? po nap?jen? p?ij?ma?e nebo k?ho
> v?ra. Prost? to sni?ov?n? mi p?i?lo zbyte?n?, kdy? p?ij?ma? m??e na ka?d?m

Jenze to kdy? pani Vom??kov? zapne svuj p?edpotopn? f?n a ud?l? ?pi?ku
na UTP, tak i ta ?pi?ka bude v?t?? a tim p?dem to p?ij?ma? sn?z
zaregistruje. J? sem se sna?il o n?jak? rozumn? kompromis aby to zase
na takov? sra?ky nebylo p?ecitliv?l?.

CL<

_______________________________________________
Ronja mailing list
Ronja at lists.pointless.net
http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja



From Seligr at sh.cvut.cz  Fri Oct  7 19:57:57 2005
From: Seligr at sh.cvut.cz (Seligr@sh.cvut.cz)
Date: Fri,  7 Oct 2005 20:57:57 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Unofficial SMD RX board
In-Reply-To: <20051004175622.GG19502@kestrel>
References: <20051003020646.99083.qmail@web53415.mail.yahoo.com>
	<1128323434.4340d96a7017f@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
	<20051004175622.GG19502@kestrel>
Message-ID: <1128711477.4346c5351a49a@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>

Cituji z emailu od Karel Kulhavy <clock at twibright.com>:

> On Mon, Oct 03, 2005 at 09:10:34AM +0200, Seligr at sh.cvut.cz wrote:
> > Zdar vsem,
> > na http://laser.webpark.cz/download.html je mozno stahnout data pro vyrobu
> desky
> > plosnych spoju na RX. Osazeni krome fotodiody a pripadne BNC konektoru je
> 
> So we have already 2 unofficial SMD RX boards under various nonfree
> development tools (Protel, Eagle) and nothing under PCB...
> 
> CL<
> 

No a co. U me uz zacina platit kolik navrhovych systemu znas tolikrat jsi .....

Pac jsem levej na grafiku, tak shanim zrucneho kreslire aby se k tem deskam
udelala dokumentace. Testovaci kousky zatim predvadeji vykony vic nez slusne tak
at z toho lidi neco maji. 

Petr




From Seligr at sh.cvut.cz  Fri Oct  7 20:01:00 2005
From: Seligr at sh.cvut.cz (Seligr@sh.cvut.cz)
Date: Fri,  7 Oct 2005 21:01:00 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Tx, Rx LED mimo krabicku
In-Reply-To: <20051004130352.GD26455@kestrel>
References: <1128301088.4340822075488@mail.cobrik.net>
	<1128322713.4340d699e5125@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
	<20051004130352.GD26455@kestrel>
Message-ID: <1128711660.4346c5ec3d24a@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>

Cituji z emailu od Karel Kulhavy <clock at twibright.com>:

> On Mon, Oct 03, 2005 at 08:58:33AM +0200, Seligr at sh.cvut.cz wrote:
> > TX dioda se necha vystrcit tak 5-10cm od krabicky. Je potreba pouzit UTP
> kablik
> 
> A nice way how to make massive radio jammer. Why don't you use coaxial?
> 
> CL<

Koaxial lze pouzit taky. A kdyz se to sikovne udela, tak je z toho jammer jako z
kombinace RX, TX + twister. Proste Maxwellovy rovnice plati at se to nekomu libi
nebo ne. 





From Seligr at sh.cvut.cz  Fri Oct  7 20:18:12 2005
From: Seligr at sh.cvut.cz (Seligr@sh.cvut.cz)
Date: Fri,  7 Oct 2005 21:18:12 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] PCB TX is online (without images)
In-Reply-To: <20050928135533.GA27706@kestrel>
References: <20050914191853.GA18709@kestrel>
	<200509262305.26055.ladmanj@volny.cz>
	<20050927081829.GC11614@kestrel.twibright.com>
	<1127822763.433935abf0a41@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
	<20050928135533.GA27706@kestrel>
Message-ID: <1128712692.4346c9f45479a@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>

Cituji z emailu od Karel Kulhavy <clock at twibright.com>:

> On Tue, Sep 27, 2005 at 02:06:03PM +0200, Seligr at sh.cvut.cz wrote:
> > Cituji z emailu od Karel Kulhavy <clock at twibright.com>:
> > 
> > > On Mon, Sep 26, 2005 at 11:05:25PM +0200, Jakub Ladman wrote:
> > > > Prvn? co m? napad? kdy? se te? kouk?m na TX na PCB:
> > > > V??ezy v ti???ku (v m?st? dr?tov?ch v?vod? a v m?st?
> > > > stabiliz?toru), kter?
> > > 
> > > > jsou imho zbyte?n?, zbyte?n? prodra?? desku.
> > > 
> > > I didn't notice any significant price increase because of the cutouts.
> > > 
> > > If you have idea how to design the mechanics without the cutouts
> > > then do it please. I wouldn't make them if I found out how to do it
> > > neatly without them.
> > > 
> > > CL<
> > > 
> > 
> > No, stabilizator by stacilo prisroubovat na pocinovany PCB pobliz
> > okraje. Draty
> 
> I don't think the thermal conductivitity of the 35um copper foil is
> good enough. The regulator is dissipating quite some power.
> 
Vykon ztraceny v TX je temer zanetbatelny. Na 35um medi s nep. maskou se bez
problemu nechaji uchladit 3W a vic, staci se podivat na doporuceni ke
stabilizatorum v pouzdrech DPAK.

> I would like to use a switched regulator in subsequent designs to
> get rid of this dissipation.
> 
Dobry napad. Pouzitelny sehnatelny maly stabilizator muze byt onsemi MC34063.
Jen je problem jakou vybrat snadno dostupnou civku. Zatim nejlepsi napad je
namotat si vlastni na toroidni jadro vystupniho filtru vyhoreleho poc. zdroje.

> I have tested that Ronja works without problems even when it's painted
> dark brown and in the sun in summer when it's 35degC in the shadow and
> you cannot hold your hand on the pipe.
> 
> I would like this thermal compatibility to be maintained. If Ronja
> spreads, someone from areas near equator will want to use it and
> it will overheat. I don't want the regulator to activate thermal
> shutdown just because we were lazy to give it robust cooling.

Pruser je pocinovany plech. Ma strasne velky tepelny odpor. Kdyz zrezne nebo se
zacmara fixem nebo lakem je to hned o dost lepsi.

> 
> Moreover if someone has weak soldering iron he can't solder the whole
> rim, just couple of points. In that case passing heat would work badly
> too. This is otherwise safe because the two ground planes are shorted
> along the rim consistently with a row of vias.
> 
> The LED simply doesn't fit there. It has to be in the middle. The
> PCB position is determined by component sizes and necessary clearance
> for the lid to not short out the pins if pressed externally.
> 

Here is kazda rada expensive. Jeste sem nic lepsiho nevymyslel.

> So we have two cutouts. The third is just for convenience.
> 

Sorry tady me vypadla pointa. Pokud se budou draty lepit tavnym lepidlem nebo
necim takovym tak je potreba je lepit na PCB. Proto se me ta dira nelibila.
Ty prokovky nejsou zas az tak dobry napad pokud se to bude pajet hrotovou
pajeckou, pet der uz odvadi prilis mnoho tepla takze hrozi studeny spoj.

> The soldering pads have intentionally 5 vias which hold the pad together
> in case of overheating and peeling off the PCB. It's easy to overheat
> because
> 1) If the wires break by frequent bending you have to change them
> 2) Often you use very thick wires which require lot of heat to heat up
> and that thermally overheats the PCB during soldering
> 3) I hate all the crappy consumer electronics I had at home (walkmans,
> radios etc.) where something always broke off because the PCB was
> designed to be easily manufactured and wasn't designed to be robust.
> I permanently had to resolder broken-out 3.5mm stereo jacks and other
> connectors and cords.
> 
> > pripajet na plosky bez der z jedne strany. A u LEDky by se taky neco
> > vymyslelo.
> 
> You see? You talk like if it could be done without the cutouts but
> don't provide actual proposal how to do it. I don't believe you.
> 
> > 
> > Celkem vzato za tech 10,799.48 moc hubeny vysledek.
> 
> You didn't pay anything. So you get it for 0.00 instead of 10,799.48.
> 
> If you don't like the style how Ronja is developed, you can go to
> proprietary competition or start your own fork. That's why Ronja is free
> - to give freedom to the users.

Jen male rypnuti. S tou propagaci free, GPL, Linux uz me zacinas pripominat meho
kamarada pojistovaka... 

> 
> But I should warn you that in proprietary world you get for that price
> one piece of device, while here you get one piece of design for that.
> 
> If you don't like the cutouts, it's a matter of 15 minutes to fire
> up PCB and change it yourself. And then you can manufacture as many
> pieces of changed design as you want.
> 
Stane se, ted musim dodelat dokumentaci k tem RXum.

Petr


> CL<
> 



From clock at twibright.com  Fri Oct  7 21:37:02 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 22:37:02 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Tx, Rx LED mimo krabicku
In-Reply-To: <1128711660.4346c5ec3d24a@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
References: <1128301088.4340822075488@mail.cobrik.net>
	<1128322713.4340d699e5125@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
	<20051004130352.GD26455@kestrel>
	<1128711660.4346c5ec3d24a@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
Message-ID: <20051007203702.GB29872@kestrel>

On Fri, Oct 07, 2005 at 09:01:00PM +0200, Seligr at sh.cvut.cz wrote:
> Cituji z emailu od Karel Kulhavy <clock at twibright.com>:
> 
> > On Mon, Oct 03, 2005 at 08:58:33AM +0200, Seligr at sh.cvut.cz wrote:
> > > TX dioda se necha vystrcit tak 5-10cm od krabicky. Je potreba pouzit UTP
> > kablik
> > 
> > A nice way how to make massive radio jammer. Why don't you use coaxial?
> > 
> > CL<
> 
> Koaxial lze pouzit taky. A kdyz se to sikovne udela, tak je z toho jammer jako z
> kombinace RX, TX + twister. Proste Maxwellovy rovnice plati at se to nekomu libi

If you found some particular jamming behaviour of Ronja please fill in
bugreport at
http://ronja-svn.wservices.ch/report/newticket

CL<


From clock at twibright.com  Fri Oct  7 21:38:21 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 22:38:21 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] New revision of Twister PCB
In-Reply-To: <1128711037.4346c37d952de@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
References: <20051007175355.GA15376@kestrel>
	<1128711037.4346c37d952de@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
Message-ID: <20051007203821.GC29872@kestrel>

On Fri, Oct 07, 2005 at 08:50:37PM +0200, Seligr at sh.cvut.cz wrote:
> Cituji z emailu od Karel Kulhavy <clock at twibright.com>:
> 
> > I have made new revision of Twister PCB
> > 1) support for DIL-8 XTAL oscillators (I hope they have the same
> > pinout)
> > 2) PC/switch/loopback silkscreen labels added to connectors for people
> > who want to use jumpers instead of switches.
> > 
> > CL<
> > 
> 
> A nechtelo by se ti udelat jeste par drobnych uprav?
> 1) Zkratit "kralovskou cesticku" pres C84.
> 2) Pridat patch 100N kondik tesne k pinum 1-4 CONN53.
> 3) Posunout elyt C57 aby si nevadil s U64.
> 4) Dat vyvody pro LED na jeden 6ti pinovy konetor.
> 5) C87 zrusit bez nahrady.
> 
> 6) (Zbozne prani) predelat stabilizator do leveho horniho rohu (jak je LED D59)
> aby lezel na desce a nechal se prisroubovat na distancni sloupek.

Can you please file them as tickets to
http://ronja-svn.wservices.ch/report/newticket

Thanks

CL<


From clock at twibright.com  Fri Oct  7 21:39:19 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 22:39:19 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] korektnost =?iso-8859-2?Q?nebo?=
	=?iso-8859-2?Q?_nekorektnost_tp_p=F8ij=EDma=E8e?=
In-Reply-To: <200510071931.40112.ladmanj@volny.cz>
References: <200510071406.35019.ladmanj@volny.cz>
	<200510071750.59876.ladmanj@volny.cz>
	<20051007172246.GA14829@kestrel>
	<200510071931.40112.ladmanj@volny.cz>
Message-ID: <20051007203919.GE29872@kestrel>

On Fri, Oct 07, 2005 at 07:31:39PM +0200, Jakub Ladman wrote:
> On Friday 07 of October 2005 19:22, Karel Kulhavy wrote:
> > On Fri, Oct 07, 2005 at 05:50:59PM +0200, Jakub Ladman wrote:
> > > Dne p? 7. ??jna 2005 17:33 Karel Kulhavy napsal(a):
> > > > > Pinout se li?? jen tak, ?e AM26XX povoluje v?echny ?ty?i sekce
> > > > > najednou, pokud (G1 | (~G2)) a MC348x m? dv? a dv? sekce povolov?ny
> > > > > zvl???. G1 v log 1 povoluje dv? sekce a G2 v log 1 povoluje zbyl? dv?
> > > > > sekce. A z toho plyne, ?e pokud se na desce G1 i G2 p?ipoj? na log 1,
> > > > > bude tam chodit jak AM26LSXX tak MC348X
> > > >
> > > > A to se tyka prijimaci nebo vysilacu nebo obojiho?
> > >
> > > Obojiho a tady na ML uz jsem to cca pred pul rokem psal.
> > > Jakub
> >
> > Muzes dat ticket na Trac please?
> Co?

http://ronja-svn.wservices.ch/report/newticket

CL<


From clock at twibright.com  Sun Oct  9 00:11:36 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 01:11:36 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Unofficial SMD RX board
In-Reply-To: <1128711477.4346c5351a49a@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
References: <20051003020646.99083.qmail@web53415.mail.yahoo.com>
	<1128323434.4340d96a7017f@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
	<20051004175622.GG19502@kestrel>
	<1128711477.4346c5351a49a@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
Message-ID: <20051008231136.GB21652@kestrel>

On Fri, Oct 07, 2005 at 08:57:57PM +0200, Seligr at sh.cvut.cz wrote:
> Cituji z emailu od Karel Kulhavy <clock at twibright.com>:
> 
> > On Mon, Oct 03, 2005 at 09:10:34AM +0200, Seligr at sh.cvut.cz wrote:
> > > Zdar vsem,
> > > na http://laser.webpark.cz/download.html je mozno stahnout data pro vyrobu
> > desky
> > > plosnych spoju na RX. Osazeni krome fotodiody a pripadne BNC konektoru je
> > 
> > So we have already 2 unofficial SMD RX boards under various nonfree
> > development tools (Protel, Eagle) and nothing under PCB...
> > 
> > CL<
> > 
> 
> No a co. U me uz zacina platit kolik navrhovych systemu znas tolikrat jsi .....

prasetem.

CL<
> 
> Pac jsem levej na grafiku, tak shanim zrucneho kreslire aby se k tem deskam
> udelala dokumentace. Testovaci kousky zatim predvadeji vykony vic nez slusne tak
> at z toho lidi neco maji. 
> 
> Petr
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From zajio1am at artax.karlin.mff.cuni.cz  Sun Oct  9 02:11:54 2005
From: zajio1am at artax.karlin.mff.cuni.cz (Ondrej Zajicek)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 03:11:54 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] SW pro Ronja + Wifi backup
In-Reply-To: <1128628628.434581942dec1@www.gybon.cz>
References: <1128628628.434581942dec1@www.gybon.cz>
Message-ID: <20051009011154.GA10505@localhost.localdomain>

On Thu, Oct 06, 2005 at 09:57:08PM +0200, pavkriz at gybon.cz wrote:
> Dotaz tedy zni - tvoril nekdo uz neco podobneho (nerad vynalezam znovu kolo)?
> Pripadne, mame lepsi recept? Pripominky, poznatky....?

Hello

I wrote a perl script, which pings to other side of Ronja link and process
acquired value of packetloss and switch between Ronja and Wifi. It is based on
principle of counter - if pl is less than 5%, then counter decreases (minimum
is 0) otherwise it increases (increment equal to packetloss value) (maximum is
300). After counter exceeded upper mark (i use 95), then switch to WiFi is
executed. When down-exceeded lower mark (i use 30), then switch to Ronja is
executed. Both switches and current packetloss are logged.

It is needed to define 4 commands in script - ronja-up, ronja-down, wifi-up
and wifi-down. During execution of script either ronja-up or wifi-up is
executed (based on current packetloss). After that when switch to WiFI is
wanted, then ronja-down and wifi-up is executed, When switch to Ronja is
wanted, then wifi-down and ronja-up is executed.

Script uses external command fping

Because both sides of Ronja changes routing independently, so under Linux it
is suitable to disable reverse-path-filtering, for example by:
echo 0 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/conf/all/rp_filter.

In attachment i send script with examples of up/down scripts used with static
routing. This script can be used in combination with dynamic routing (for
example OSPF), in that case suitable content of up/down commands are iptables
commands enabling/disabling transit of (for example) OSPF packets.

CZECH TRANSLATION - CESKY PREKLAD:

Ahoj

Napsal jsem skript (v Perlu), ktery silne opingava druhou stranu Ronji,
vyhodnocuje zjistenou hodnotu packetlossu a prepina mezi Ronjou a WiFi.
Funguje na principu counteru - pokud je pl mensi nez 5%, tak counter klesa
(minimum 0), jinak narusta (o hodnotu packetlossu) (maximum 300). Pokud
counter prekroci horni hranici (pouzivam 95), tak se prepne na wifi, Pokud
podkroci dolni hranici (pouzivam 30), tak se prepne zpatky na Ronju. Prepinani
a aktualni packetloss se loguji.

Ve skriptu je treba definovat 4 prikazy - ronja-up, ronja-down, wifi-up,
wifi-down. Pri spusteni skriptu se podle aktualniho stavu spusti bud ronja-up
nebo wifi-up, pozdeji pri zmene stavu z ronji na wifi se spusti ronja-down a
wifi-up, pri zmene stavu z wifi na ronju se spusti wifi-down a ronja-up.

skript pouziva externi prikaz fping

Protoze k rozhodnuti o preroutovani dospeji obe strany Ronji nezavisle, je v
Linuxu vhodne vypnout reverse-path-filtering, coz se da udelat napriklad
pomoci: echo 0 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/conf/all/rp_filter

V priloze posilam skript s priklady up/down skriptu vyuzivanych se statickym
routovanim. Tento skript je mozne pouzit i v kombinaci s dynamickym routovanim
(napriklad OSPF), v tom pripade je vhodny obsah up/down prikazu iptables
prikazy, ktere povoluji/zakazuji pruchod (napriklad) OSPF paketu.

-- 
Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo

Ondrej 'SanTiago' Zajicek (email: santiago at mail.cz, jabber: santiago at njs.netlab.cz)
OpenPGP encrypted e-mails preferred (KeyID 0x11DEADC3, wwwkeys.pgp.net)
"To err is human -- to blame it on a computer is even more so."


From zajio1am at artax.karlin.mff.cuni.cz  Sun Oct  9 02:18:00 2005
From: zajio1am at artax.karlin.mff.cuni.cz (Ondrej Zajicek)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 03:18:00 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] SW pro Ronja + Wifi backup
In-Reply-To: <20051009011154.GA10505@localhost.localdomain>
References: <1128628628.434581942dec1@www.gybon.cz>
	<20051009011154.GA10505@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <20051009011800.GC10505@localhost.localdomain>

On Sun, Oct 09, 2005 at 03:11:54AM +0200, Ondrej Zajicek wrote:
> In attachment i send script with examples of up/down scripts used with static
> routing. This script can be used in combination with dynamic routing (for

Attachment somewhere disappeared so i sent it again.

> CZECH TRANSLATION - CESKY PREKLAD:

> V priloze posilam skript s priklady up/down skriptu vyuzivanych se statickym
> routovanim. Tento skript je mozne pouzit i v kombinaci s dynamickym routovanim

Priloha nekde zmizela, tak ji posilam znova

-- 
Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo

Ondrej 'SanTiago' Zajicek (email: santiago at mail.cz, jabber: santiago at njs.netlab.cz)
OpenPGP encrypted e-mails preferred (KeyID 0x11DEADC3, wwwkeys.pgp.net)
"To err is human -- to blame it on a computer is even more so."
-------------- next part --------------
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-------------- next part --------------
#! /bin/sh

/sbin/ip route add 192.168.3.0/24 via 192.168.10.66
/sbin/ip route add 192.168.4.0/24 via 192.168.10.66
/sbin/ip route add 192.168.5.0/24 via 192.168.10.66
/sbin/ip route add 192.168.6.0/24 via 192.168.10.66
/sbin/ip route add 192.168.7.0/24 via 192.168.10.66
/sbin/ip route add 192.168.8.0/24 via 192.168.10.66
/sbin/ip route add 192.168.9.0/24 via 192.168.10.66
/sbin/ip route add 192.168.13.0/24 via 192.168.10.66
/sbin/ip route add 192.168.14.0/24 via 192.168.10.66
/sbin/ip route add 192.168.15.0/24 via 192.168.10.66
/sbin/ip route add 192.168.16.0/24 via 192.168.10.66
/sbin/ip route add 192.168.18.0/23 via 192.168.10.66
/sbin/ip route add 192.168.20.0/24 via 192.168.10.66
/sbin/ip route add 192.168.21.0/24 via 192.168.10.66
/sbin/ip route add 192.168.23.0/24 via 192.168.10.66
/sbin/ip route add 192.168.24.0/23 via 192.168.10.66
/sbin/ip route add 192.168.26.0/23 via 192.168.10.66
/sbin/ip route add 192.168.28.0/23 via 192.168.10.66
/sbin/ip route add 192.168.248.0/24 via 192.168.10.66
/sbin/ip route add 192.168.10.32/28 via 192.168.10.66
/sbin/ip route add 192.168.10.48/28 via 192.168.10.66
/sbin/ip route add 192.168.10.80/28 via 192.168.10.66
/sbin/ip route add 192.168.10.96/29 via 192.168.10.66
/sbin/ip route add 192.168.10.104/29 via 192.168.10.66
-------------- next part --------------
#! /bin/sh

/sbin/ip route del 192.168.3.0/24 via 192.168.10.66
/sbin/ip route del 192.168.4.0/24 via 192.168.10.66
/sbin/ip route del 192.168.5.0/24 via 192.168.10.66
/sbin/ip route del 192.168.6.0/24 via 192.168.10.66
/sbin/ip route del 192.168.7.0/24 via 192.168.10.66
/sbin/ip route del 192.168.8.0/24 via 192.168.10.66
/sbin/ip route del 192.168.9.0/24 via 192.168.10.66
/sbin/ip route del 192.168.13.0/24 via 192.168.10.66
/sbin/ip route del 192.168.14.0/24 via 192.168.10.66
/sbin/ip route del 192.168.15.0/24 via 192.168.10.66
/sbin/ip route del 192.168.16.0/24 via 192.168.10.66
/sbin/ip route del 192.168.18.0/23 via 192.168.10.66
/sbin/ip route del 192.168.20.0/24 via 192.168.10.66
/sbin/ip route del 192.168.21.0/24 via 192.168.10.66
/sbin/ip route del 192.168.23.0/24 via 192.168.10.66
/sbin/ip route del 192.168.24.0/23 via 192.168.10.66
/sbin/ip route del 192.168.26.0/23 via 192.168.10.66
/sbin/ip route del 192.168.28.0/23 via 192.168.10.66
/sbin/ip route del 192.168.248.0/24 via 192.168.10.66
/sbin/ip route del 192.168.10.32/28 via 192.168.10.66
/sbin/ip route del 192.168.10.48/28 via 192.168.10.66
/sbin/ip route del 192.168.10.80/28 via 192.168.10.66
/sbin/ip route del 192.168.10.96/29 via 192.168.10.66
/sbin/ip route del 192.168.10.104/29 via 192.168.10.66
-------------- next part --------------
#! /bin/sh

/sbin/ip route add 192.168.3.0/24 via 192.168.22.2
/sbin/ip route add 192.168.4.0/24 via 192.168.22.2
/sbin/ip route add 192.168.5.0/24 via 192.168.22.2
/sbin/ip route add 192.168.6.0/24 via 192.168.22.2
/sbin/ip route add 192.168.7.0/24 via 192.168.22.2
/sbin/ip route add 192.168.8.0/24 via 192.168.22.2
/sbin/ip route add 192.168.9.0/24 via 192.168.22.2
/sbin/ip route add 192.168.13.0/24 via 192.168.22.2
/sbin/ip route add 192.168.14.0/24 via 192.168.22.2
/sbin/ip route add 192.168.15.0/24 via 192.168.22.2
/sbin/ip route add 192.168.16.0/24 via 192.168.22.2
/sbin/ip route add 192.168.18.0/23 via 192.168.22.2
/sbin/ip route add 192.168.20.0/24 via 192.168.22.2
/sbin/ip route add 192.168.21.0/24 via 192.168.22.2
/sbin/ip route add 192.168.23.0/24 via 192.168.22.2
/sbin/ip route add 192.168.24.0/23 via 192.168.22.2
/sbin/ip route add 192.168.26.0/23 via 192.168.22.2
/sbin/ip route add 192.168.28.0/23 via 192.168.22.2
/sbin/ip route add 192.168.248.0/24 via 192.168.22.2
/sbin/ip route add 192.168.10.32/28 via 192.168.22.2
/sbin/ip route add 192.168.10.48/28 via 192.168.22.2
/sbin/ip route add 192.168.10.80/28 via 192.168.22.2
/sbin/ip route add 192.168.10.96/29 via 192.168.22.2
/sbin/ip route add 192.168.10.104/29 via 192.168.22.2
-------------- next part --------------
#! /bin/sh

/sbin/ip route del 192.168.3.0/24 via 192.168.22.2
/sbin/ip route del 192.168.4.0/24 via 192.168.22.2
/sbin/ip route del 192.168.5.0/24 via 192.168.22.2
/sbin/ip route del 192.168.6.0/24 via 192.168.22.2
/sbin/ip route del 192.168.7.0/24 via 192.168.22.2
/sbin/ip route del 192.168.8.0/24 via 192.168.22.2
/sbin/ip route del 192.168.9.0/24 via 192.168.22.2
/sbin/ip route del 192.168.13.0/24 via 192.168.22.2
/sbin/ip route del 192.168.14.0/24 via 192.168.22.2
/sbin/ip route del 192.168.15.0/24 via 192.168.22.2
/sbin/ip route del 192.168.16.0/24 via 192.168.22.2
/sbin/ip route del 192.168.18.0/23 via 192.168.22.2
/sbin/ip route del 192.168.20.0/24 via 192.168.22.2
/sbin/ip route del 192.168.21.0/24 via 192.168.22.2
/sbin/ip route del 192.168.23.0/24 via 192.168.22.2
/sbin/ip route del 192.168.24.0/23 via 192.168.22.2
/sbin/ip route del 192.168.26.0/23 via 192.168.22.2
/sbin/ip route del 192.168.28.0/23 via 192.168.22.2
/sbin/ip route del 192.168.248.0/24 via 192.168.22.2
/sbin/ip route del 192.168.10.32/28 via 192.168.22.2
/sbin/ip route del 192.168.10.48/28 via 192.168.22.2
/sbin/ip route del 192.168.10.80/28 via 192.168.22.2
/sbin/ip route del 192.168.10.96/29 via 192.168.22.2
/sbin/ip route del 192.168.10.104/29 via 192.168.22.2

From santiago at mail.cz  Sun Oct  9 11:14:18 2005
From: santiago at mail.cz (Ondrej Zajicek)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 12:14:18 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Problem with switch Edimax ES-3124RE+
Message-ID: <20051009101418.GA1761@localhost.localdomain>

Hello

I bought switch Edimax ES-3124RE+, which is 24-port managemented
rack-mountable switch, with management through serial port and with VLAN
support and manual setting of 10/100 FD/HD. It costs about 70 EURO. Ronja
works with it in fullduplex mode, but i encountered a strange problem. When i
cover RX of Ronja (or break aiming) and after a while uncover RX of Ronja (or
aim it), then in switch in given port RX is broken (no packets are received).
TX on same port is OK. After reset of switch (even software one, commanded
through serial port) everything is OK.

I am surprised, because i thought that where there is no signal, then Twister 
continues to send link puleses and switch can't differentiate between no
signal on Twister and just no incoming packets.

What changes in Twister behavior, when signal on RX disappeared?
What Twister send to UTP, so switch can responds in that manner?

CZECH TRANSLATION - CESKY PREKLAD:

Ahoj

Koupil jsem switch Edimax ES-3124RE+, jedna se o 24portovy managementovatelny
switch v rack provedeni, ovladany pres seriovy port s podporou VLAN a
manualniho nastaveni 10/100 FD/HD. Stoji okolo 2100 CZK. Ronja s nim funguje
ve fullduplexnim rezimu, ale narazil jsem na zvlastni problem. Pokud zakryji
RX na ronje (nebo zrusim zamereni) po chvilce odkryji (nebo zamerim), tak ve
switchi prestane fungovat na danem portu prichozi smer (zadne pakety
neprijima), TX na danem portu vsak pracuje dobre. Po resetu (treba i
softwarovem, aktivovanem pres seriovy port) zase vse funguje.

Docela me to prekvapuje, nebot jsem se domnival, ze pokud neni signal, tak
twister stale generuje link pulzy a switch nema sanci rozlisit, zda neni signal,
nebo se jen nic neposila.

Jak se zmeni chovani Twistera, kdyz mu zmizi signal na RX?
Co Twister posle na UTP, ze na to switch muze nejak zareagovat?

-- 
Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo

Ondrej 'SanTiago' Zajicek (email: santiago at mail.cz, jabber: santiago at njs.netlab.cz)
OpenPGP encrypted e-mails preferred (KeyID 0x11DEADC3, wwwkeys.pgp.net)
"To err is human -- to blame it on a computer is even more so."
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From cd930 at centrum.cz  Sun Oct  9 11:25:28 2005
From: cd930 at centrum.cz (-=RYS=-)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 12:25:28 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Problem with switch Edimax ES-3124RE+
Message-ID: <200510091225.22114@centrum.cz>

Tak presne to se stalo u nas v Zatci.
Nekolikrat jsem chodil pred paprsek a v pohode, ale jednou se to seklo.
Na prijimaci strane ani tuk, jen vysilac si vysilal data (cervena LED blikala).
Vypl jsem Ronju a zase zapl a nabehlo to.
Zatim se to stalo jen jednou a od te doby se to samo nahodi.
Switch je typ:? Dlink 3326S
Martin? -=RYS=-

______________________________________________________________
> Od: santiago at mail.cz
> Komu: ronja at lists.pointless.net
> CC: 
> Datum: 09.10.2005 12:14
> P?edm?t: [Ronja] Problem with switch Edimax ES-3124RE+
>
> Hello
> 
> I bought switch Edimax ES-3124RE+, which is 24-port managemented
> rack-mountable switch, with management through serial port and with VLAN
> support and manual setting of 10/100 FD/HD. It costs about 70 EURO. Ronja
> works with it in fullduplex mode, but i encountered a strange problem.
> When i
> cover RX of Ronja (or break aiming) and after a while uncover RX of Ronja
> (or
> aim it), then in switch in given port RX is broken (no packets are
> received).
> TX on same port is OK. After reset of switch (even software one, commanded
> through serial port) everything is OK.
> 
> I am surprised, because i thought that where there is no signal, then
> Twister 
> continues to send link puleses and switch can't differentiate between no
> signal on Twister and just no incoming packets.
> 
> What changes in Twister behavior, when signal on RX disappeared?
> What Twister send to UTP, so switch can responds in that manner?
> 
> CZECH TRANSLATION - CESKY PREKLAD:
> 
> Ahoj
> 
> Koupil jsem switch Edimax ES-3124RE+, jedna se o 24portovy
> managementovatelny
> switch v rack provedeni, ovladany pres seriovy port s podporou VLAN a
> manualniho nastaveni 10/100 FD/HD. Stoji okolo 2100 CZK. Ronja s nim
> funguje
> ve fullduplexnim rezimu, ale narazil jsem na zvlastni problem. Pokud
> zakryji
> RX na ronje (nebo zrusim zamereni) po chvilce odkryji (nebo zamerim), tak
> ve
> switchi prestane fungovat na danem portu prichozi smer (zadne pakety
> neprijima), TX na danem portu vsak pracuje dobre. Po resetu (treba i
> softwarovem, aktivovanem pres seriovy port) zase vse funguje.
> 
> Docela me to prekvapuje, nebot jsem se domnival, ze pokud neni signal, tak
> twister stale generuje link pulzy a switch nema sanci rozlisit, zda neni
> signal,
> nebo se jen nic neposila.
> 
> Jak se zmeni chovani Twistera, kdyz mu zmizi signal na RX?
> Co Twister posle na UTP, ze na to switch muze nejak zareagovat?
> 
> -- 
> Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo
> 
> Ondrej 'SanTiago' Zajicek (email: santiago at mail.cz, jabber:
> santiago at njs.netlab.cz)
> OpenPGP encrypted e-mails preferred (KeyID 0x11DEADC3, wwwkeys.pgp.net)
> "To err is human -- to blame it on a computer is even more so."
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 
> 


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From zajio1am at artax.karlin.mff.cuni.cz  Sun Oct  9 12:22:40 2005
From: zajio1am at artax.karlin.mff.cuni.cz (Ondrej Zajicek)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 13:22:40 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Problem with switch Edimax ES-3124RE+
In-Reply-To: <200510091225.22114@centrum.cz>
References: <200510091225.22114@centrum.cz>
Message-ID: <20051009112240.GA2179@localhost.localdomain>

On Sun, Oct 09, 2005 at 12:25:28PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote:
>    Tak presne to se stalo u nas v Zatci.
> 
>    Nekolikrat jsem chodil pred paprsek a v pohode, ale jednou se to seklo.
> 
>    Na prijimaci strane ani tuk, jen vysilac si vysilal data (cervena LED
>    blikala).
>
>    Vypl jsem Ronju a zase zapl a nabehlo to.
>
>    Zatim se to stalo jen jednou a od te doby se to samo nahodi.

Tak to se mozna jedna o neco jineho - me blikala i prijimaci ledka na
twisteru, ale pakety nedosli do PC.

Reset Ronji nepomohl, pomohl reset swithce.

Stava se me to skoro vzdy pri vypadku signalu.

-- 
Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo

Ondrej 'SanTiago' Zajicek (email: santiago at mail.cz, jabber: santiago at njs.netlab.cz)
OpenPGP encrypted e-mails preferred (KeyID 0x11DEADC3, wwwkeys.pgp.net)
"To err is human -- to blame it on a computer is even more so."
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From daniel.strnad at tiscali.cz  Sun Oct  9 14:33:02 2005
From: daniel.strnad at tiscali.cz (Daniel Strnad)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 13:33:02 -0000
Subject: [Ronja] Problem with switch Edimax ES-3124RE+
In-Reply-To: <20051009101418.GA1761@localhost.localdomain>
References: <20051009101418.GA1761@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <opsydrxcsjn6qjls@daman>

On Sun, 9 Oct 2005 12:14:18 +0200, Ondrej Zajicek <santiago at mail.cz> wrote:

> CZECH TRANSLATION - CESKY PREKLAD:
>
> Ahoj
>
> Koupil jsem switch Edimax ES-3124RE+, jedna se o 24portovy  
> managementovatelny
> switch v rack provedeni, ovladany pres seriovy port s podporou VLAN a
> manualniho nastaveni 10/100 FD/HD. Stoji okolo 2100 CZK. Ronja s nim  
> funguje
> ve fullduplexnim rezimu, ale narazil jsem na zvlastni problem. Pokud  
> zakryji
> RX na ronje (nebo zrusim zamereni) po chvilce odkryji (nebo zamerim),  
> tak ve
> switchi prestane fungovat na danem portu prichozi smer (zadne pakety
> neprijima), TX na danem portu vsak pracuje dobre. Po resetu (treba i
> softwarovem, aktivovanem pres seriovy port) zase vse funguje.
>
> Docela me to prekvapuje, nebot jsem se domnival, ze pokud neni signal,  
> tak
> twister stale generuje link pulzy a switch nema sanci rozlisit, zda neni  
> signal,
> nebo se jen nic neposila.
>
> Jak se zmeni chovani Twistera, kdyz mu zmizi signal na RX?
> Co Twister posle na UTP, ze na to switch muze nejak zareagovat?
>
No protoze kdyz rx nema signal z vysilace, tak jako signal vyhodnocuje  
okolni sum a ten bordel to posila do twisteru a twister do sitovky a to  
proste nektery sitovky nerozchodej. Ja sice nemam switch, ale zpusobem jak  
popisujes me to kousne i integr. sitovku. Proste chvila blika prijimaci  
LED na sitovce jak o zivot a pak konec. Kdyz jsem me to stalo porpve,  
myslel jsem ze mam po sitovce. Pomohl az restart a odpojeni PC od site.  
Chtelo by to udelat do rx nejaky squelch.


From santiago at mail.cz  Sun Oct  9 12:48:30 2005
From: santiago at mail.cz (Ondrej Zajicek)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 13:48:30 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Problem with switch Edimax ES-3124RE+
In-Reply-To: <opsydrxcsjn6qjls@daman>
References: <20051009101418.GA1761@localhost.localdomain>
	<opsydrxcsjn6qjls@daman>
Message-ID: <20051009114830.GA2381@localhost.localdomain>

On Sun, Oct 09, 2005 at 01:33:02PM -0000, Daniel Strnad wrote:
> > Jak se zmeni chovani Twistera, kdyz mu zmizi signal na RX?
> > Co Twister posle na UTP, ze na to switch muze nejak zareagovat?
> >
> No protoze kdyz rx nema signal z vysilace, tak jako signal vyhodnocuje  
> okolni sum a ten bordel to posila do twisteru a twister do sitovky a to  
> proste nektery sitovky nerozchodej.

Hmm, ale v tomto pripade sviti prijimaci LED na twisteru, ne?
Myslim, ze v mem pripade nesvitila.

-- 
Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo

Ondrej 'SanTiago' Zajicek (email: santiago at mail.cz, jabber: santiago at njs.netlab.cz)
OpenPGP encrypted e-mails preferred (KeyID 0x11DEADC3, wwwkeys.pgp.net)
"To err is human -- to blame it on a computer is even more so."
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From daniel.strnad at tiscali.cz  Sun Oct  9 15:01:31 2005
From: daniel.strnad at tiscali.cz (Daniel Strnad)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 14:01:31 -0000
Subject: [Ronja] Problem with switch Edimax ES-3124RE+
In-Reply-To: <20051009114830.GA2381@localhost.localdomain>
References: <20051009101418.GA1761@localhost.localdomain>
	<opsydrxcsjn6qjls@daman>
	<20051009114830.GA2381@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <opsyds8tshn6qjls@daman>

On Sun, 9 Oct 2005 13:48:30 +0200, Ondrej Zajicek <santiago at mail.cz> wrote:

> On Sun, Oct 09, 2005 at 01:33:02PM -0000, Daniel Strnad wrote:
>> > Jak se zmeni chovani Twistera, kdyz mu zmizi signal na RX?
>> > Co Twister posle na UTP, ze na to switch muze nejak zareagovat?
>> >
>> No protoze kdyz rx nema signal z vysilace, tak jako signal vyhodnocuje
>> okolni sum a ten bordel to posila do twisteru a twister do sitovky a to
>> proste nektery sitovky nerozchodej.
>
> Hmm, ale v tomto pripade sviti prijimaci LED na twisteru, ne?
> Myslim, ze v mem pripade nesvitila.
>
Sviti, ale vetsinou hodne slabounce. Je to videt az kdyz k ni prilozis oko.


From ladmanj at volny.cz  Sun Oct  9 13:27:26 2005
From: ladmanj at volny.cz (Jakub Ladman)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 14:27:26 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Your concerns about Twister
In-Reply-To: <20051007172515.GB14829@kestrel>
References: <20051007141032.GA8161@kestrel>
	<200510071641.53333.ladmanj@volny.cz>
	<20051007172515.GB14829@kestrel>
Message-ID: <200510091427.27353.ladmanj@volny.cz>

> Jenze to kdy? pani Vom??kov? zapne svuj p?edpotopn? f?n a ud?l? ?pi?ku
> na UTP, tak i ta ?pi?ka bude v?t?? a tim p?dem to p?ij?ma? sn?z
> zaregistruje. J? sem se sna?il o n?jak? rozumn? kompromis aby to zase
> na takov? sra?ky nebylo p?ecitliv?l?.

Tohle je podle mne hol? nesmysl. Kdy? bude m?t ru?en? srovnatelnou amplitudu 
se sign?lem, tak toti? nepom??e ani sv?cen? voda. Proto?e tahle v?c nepohne s 
odstupem sign?l/?um ani o setinu decibelu, p?esn? o 0dB
Pr?v? proto byla zavedena ta vymo?enost - princip diferenci?ln?ho veden?, 
kter? se pou??v? jak v datov?ch p?enosech, tak t?eba v nahr?vac?ch studi?ch 
pro analogov? linky, proto?e vn?j?? ru?en? m? na obou vodi??ch v p?ru 
souhlasnou polaritu a na konci se proto na rozd?l od sign?lu vz?jemn? ode?te.
Naopak se zv??? mo?nost ru?en? zevnit? twistera po nap?jen?, z ostatn?ch sekc? 
p?ij?ma?e a podobn?. Tam jsi naopak odstup sign?l/?um zmen?il o 34,4dB 
(p?edpokl?d?m ?e ??inky ?umu maj? charakter v?konu, mo?n? je to blbost a pak 
pros?m vyd?lit dv?ma) 

Jakub
>
> CL<
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From ladmanj at volny.cz  Sun Oct  9 13:45:05 2005
From: ladmanj at volny.cz (Jakub Ladman)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 14:45:05 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Problem with switch Edimax ES-3124RE+
In-Reply-To: <opsydrxcsjn6qjls@daman>
References: <20051009101418.GA1761@localhost.localdomain>
	<opsydrxcsjn6qjls@daman>
Message-ID: <200510091445.05581.ladmanj@volny.cz>

>
> No protoze kdyz rx nema signal z vysilace, tak jako signal vyhodnocuje
> okolni sum a ten bordel to posila do twisteru a twister do sitovky a to
> proste nektery sitovky nerozchodej. Ja sice nemam switch, ale zpusobem jak
> popisujes me to kousne i integr. sitovku. Proste chvila blika prijimaci
> LED na sitovce jak o zivot a pak konec. Kdyz jsem me to stalo porpve,
> myslel jsem ze mam po sitovce. Pomohl az restart a odpojeni PC od site.
> Chtelo by to udelat do rx nejaky squelch.

Presne tak.
Ani se nemusi viditelne RX led na twisteru rozsvitit, ale nejaky pulsy z sumu 
tam projdou a sitovka, nebo switch se z toho zblazni.
Je potreba dodelat do RX squelch s nastavitelnou urovni. A nejlepe umlcovat 
generovani link pulsu v pripade ze squelch zabere. Ve spideru je stim 
pocitano.
Protoze pak se guagga rychleji dozvi o vypadku a muze okamzite prepnout na 
zalozni trasu.

SQUELCH, SQUELCH, SQUELCH, SQUELCH, SQUELCH, SQUELCH, SQUELCH, SQUELCH
jo jo jo jo jo jo


From ladmanj at volny.cz  Sun Oct  9 14:24:37 2005
From: ladmanj at volny.cz (Jakub Ladman)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 15:24:37 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] PCB TX is online (without images)
In-Reply-To: <1128712692.4346c9f45479a@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
References: <20050914191853.GA18709@kestrel> <20050928135533.GA27706@kestrel>
	<1128712692.4346c9f45479a@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
Message-ID: <200510091524.37845.ladmanj@volny.cz>

> > > > I didn't notice any significant price increase because of the
> > > > cutouts.
> > > >
> > > > If you have idea how to design the mechanics without the cutouts
> > > > then do it please. I wouldn't make them if I found out how to do it
> > > > neatly without them.

Napriklad udelat celou desku o ty vyrezy kratsi, podle vseho by se to tam 
veslo i tak, a proste nebude v tomto smeru az ke kraji krabicky.
Rychly jednoduchy, pet minut.

BTW: Ten tistak je zase silene odporny. 
Takhle odporny layout vidam v cinskych tranzistoracich a podobne "technice".

Nevim jestli to tak delas schvalne nebo te k tomu soft pcb dostatecne nevede, 
ale zvykem je delat cesty navzajem rovnobezne a ohyby po 45?.
To muzes sice vnimat jen jako buzeraci, ale ja to tak nemyslim, ja kdyz delam 
desku, tak ji delam tak aby byla co nejjednodussi, aby byla co nejlepe 
promyslena s hlediska vf a napajeni, ale take aby byla esteticka.
Ty tvoje nesplnuji ani jedno z toho v dostatecne mire.
Vypadaji, jako by je delal splaseny autorouter, kteremu clovek povolil vsechny 
psi kusy.
Jakub Ladman


From cd930 at centrum.cz  Sun Oct  9 18:07:49 2005
From: cd930 at centrum.cz (-=RYS=-)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 19:07:49 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Problem with switch Edimax ES-3124RE+
Message-ID: <200510091907.8816@centrum.cz>

Tak se mi to stalo zase, chodil jsem sem a tam a najednou ... nic.
Je to D-Link? DES-3326S.
Vypl jsem a zapl switch a uz to jelo a pritom tam nebyl temer zadnej provoz.
Testoval jsem to na switchi KTI KS-117.
Ten ma autoreboot za 300s pokud se nejakej port "kousne" nebo se kousne celej switch.
Ale ani na nom se mi to nikdy nestalo.
-=RYS=-


______________________________________________________________
> Od: ladmanj at volny.cz
> Komu: ronja at lists.pointless.net
> CC: 
> Datum: 09.10.2005 14:44
> P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Problem with switch Edimax ES-3124RE+
>
> >
> > No protoze kdyz rx nema signal z vysilace, tak jako signal vyhodnocuje
> > okolni sum a ten bordel to posila do twisteru a twister do sitovky a to
> > proste nektery sitovky nerozchodej. Ja sice nemam switch, ale zpusobem
> jak
> > popisujes me to kousne i integr. sitovku. Proste chvila blika prijimaci
> > LED na sitovce jak o zivot a pak konec. Kdyz jsem me to stalo porpve,
> > myslel jsem ze mam po sitovce. Pomohl az restart a odpojeni PC od site.
> > Chtelo by to udelat do rx nejaky squelch.
> 
> Presne tak.
> Ani se nemusi viditelne RX led na twisteru rozsvitit, ale nejaky pulsy z
> sumu 
> tam projdou a sitovka, nebo switch se z toho zblazni.
> Je potreba dodelat do RX squelch s nastavitelnou urovni. A nejlepe
> umlcovat 
> generovani link pulsu v pripade ze squelch zabere. Ve spideru je stim 
> pocitano.
> Protoze pak se guagga rychleji dozvi o vypadku a muze okamzite prepnout na
> 
> zalozni trasu.
> 
> SQUELCH, SQUELCH, SQUELCH, SQUELCH, SQUELCH, SQUELCH, SQUELCH, SQUELCH
> jo jo jo jo jo jo
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 


------------- dal?? ??st ---------------
HTML p??loha byla odstran?na...
URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20051009/009581a0/attachment.html

From clock at twibright.com  Sun Oct  9 19:39:26 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 20:39:26 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Problem with switch Edimax ES-3124RE+
In-Reply-To: <20051009101418.GA1761@localhost.localdomain>
References: <20051009101418.GA1761@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <20051009183926.GA31003@kestrel>

On Sun, Oct 09, 2005 at 12:14:18PM +0200, Ondrej Zajicek wrote:
> Hello
> 
> I bought switch Edimax ES-3124RE+, which is 24-port managemented
> rack-mountable switch, with management through serial port and with VLAN
> support and manual setting of 10/100 FD/HD. It costs about 70 EURO. Ronja
> works with it in fullduplex mode, but i encountered a strange problem. When i
> cover RX of Ronja (or break aiming) and after a while uncover RX of Ronja (or
> aim it), then in switch in given port RX is broken (no packets are received).
> TX on same port is OK. After reset of switch (even software one, commanded
> through serial port) everything is OK.
> 
> I am surprised, because i thought that where there is no signal, then Twister 
> continues to send link puleses and switch can't differentiate between no
> signal on Twister and just no incoming packets.

You cannot tell difference between noise when no signal and weak
received packet with jitter unless you perform complete packet
decoding. Looks like a bug in the switch software. 

You can get the same input when you put TP along some switched power
noisy wire and the wire injects similar garbage for a while into
the line. Switch shouldn't turn off port permanenly just because there
is an invalid signal.

> What changes in Twister behavior, when signal on RX disappeared?

Depends on how disappears and what's the noise level. Generally
undefined. It can generate infinitely long packet full of garbage
and manchester code violations.

CL<

> What Twister send to UTP, so switch can responds in that manner?
> 
> CZECH TRANSLATION - CESKY PREKLAD:
> 
> Ahoj
> 
> Koupil jsem switch Edimax ES-3124RE+, jedna se o 24portovy managementovatelny
> switch v rack provedeni, ovladany pres seriovy port s podporou VLAN a
> manualniho nastaveni 10/100 FD/HD. Stoji okolo 2100 CZK. Ronja s nim funguje
> ve fullduplexnim rezimu, ale narazil jsem na zvlastni problem. Pokud zakryji
> RX na ronje (nebo zrusim zamereni) po chvilce odkryji (nebo zamerim), tak ve
> switchi prestane fungovat na danem portu prichozi smer (zadne pakety
> neprijima), TX na danem portu vsak pracuje dobre. Po resetu (treba i
> softwarovem, aktivovanem pres seriovy port) zase vse funguje.
> 
> Docela me to prekvapuje, nebot jsem se domnival, ze pokud neni signal, tak
> twister stale generuje link pulzy a switch nema sanci rozlisit, zda neni signal,
> nebo se jen nic neposila.
> 
> Jak se zmeni chovani Twistera, kdyz mu zmizi signal na RX?
> Co Twister posle na UTP, ze na to switch muze nejak zareagovat?
> 
> -- 
> Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo
> 
> Ondrej 'SanTiago' Zajicek (email: santiago at mail.cz, jabber: santiago at njs.netlab.cz)
> OpenPGP encrypted e-mails preferred (KeyID 0x11DEADC3, wwwkeys.pgp.net)
> "To err is human -- to blame it on a computer is even more so."



> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja



From clock at twibright.com  Sun Oct  9 19:43:30 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 20:43:30 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Problem with switch Edimax ES-3124RE+
In-Reply-To: <20051009112240.GA2179@localhost.localdomain>
References: <200510091225.22114@centrum.cz>
	<20051009112240.GA2179@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <20051009184330.GB31003@kestrel>

On Sun, Oct 09, 2005 at 01:22:40PM +0200, Ondrej Zajicek wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 09, 2005 at 12:25:28PM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote:
> >    Tak presne to se stalo u nas v Zatci.
> > 
> >    Nekolikrat jsem chodil pred paprsek a v pohode, ale jednou se to seklo.
> > 
> >    Na prijimaci strane ani tuk, jen vysilac si vysilal data (cervena LED
> >    blikala).
> >
> >    Vypl jsem Ronju a zase zapl a nabehlo to.
> >
> >    Zatim se to stalo jen jednou a od te doby se to samo nahodi.
> 
> Tak to se mozna jedna o neco jineho - me blikala i prijimaci ledka na
> twisteru, ale pakety nedosli do PC.
> 
> Reset Ronji nepomohl, pomohl reset swithce.
> 
> Stava se me to skoro vzdy pri vypadku signalu.

We had similar problem with netbsd and their one NIC driver I don't
remember which one. The network card rendered permanently nonfunctional
when presented with invalid signal.

It's something like your grandma lost consciousness every time she heard
the noise between stations while tuning her radio.

Probably improperly implemented state machine.

CL<


From clock at twibright.com  Sun Oct  9 19:47:05 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 20:47:05 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Your concerns about Twister
In-Reply-To: <200510091427.27353.ladmanj@volny.cz>
References: <20051007141032.GA8161@kestrel>
	<200510071641.53333.ladmanj@volny.cz>
	<20051007172515.GB14829@kestrel>
	<200510091427.27353.ladmanj@volny.cz>
Message-ID: <20051009184705.GC31003@kestrel>

On Sun, Oct 09, 2005 at 02:27:26PM +0200, Jakub Ladman wrote:
> > Jenze to kdy? pani Vom??kov? zapne svuj p?edpotopn? f?n a ud?l? ?pi?ku
> > na UTP, tak i ta ?pi?ka bude v?t?? a tim p?dem to p?ij?ma? sn?z
> > zaregistruje. J? sem se sna?il o n?jak? rozumn? kompromis aby to zase
> > na takov? sra?ky nebylo p?ecitliv?l?.
> 
> Tohle je podle mne hol? nesmysl. Kdy? bude m?t ru?en? srovnatelnou amplitudu 
> se sign?lem, tak toti? nepom??e ani sv?cen? voda. Proto?e tahle v?c nepohne s 
> odstupem sign?l/?um ani o setinu decibelu, p?esn? o 0dB
> Pr?v? proto byla zavedena ta vymo?enost - princip diferenci?ln?ho veden?, 
> kter? se pou??v? jak v datov?ch p?enosech, tak t?eba v nahr?vac?ch studi?ch 
> pro analogov? linky, proto?e vn?j?? ru?en? m? na obou vodi??ch v p?ru 
> souhlasnou polaritu a na konci se proto na rozd?l od sign?lu vz?jemn? ode?te.

This is not true. You can quite easily externally induce interference which has
opposite polarity on one wire than on the other.

The statement you say is valid for coaxial cable only.

CL<


From clock at twibright.com  Sun Oct  9 19:52:15 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 20:52:15 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Problem with switch Edimax ES-3124RE+
In-Reply-To: <200510091445.05581.ladmanj@volny.cz>
References: <20051009101418.GA1761@localhost.localdomain>
	<opsydrxcsjn6qjls@daman> <200510091445.05581.ladmanj@volny.cz>
Message-ID: <20051009185215.GD31003@kestrel>

On Sun, Oct 09, 2005 at 02:45:05PM +0200, Jakub Ladman wrote:
> >
> > No protoze kdyz rx nema signal z vysilace, tak jako signal vyhodnocuje
> > okolni sum a ten bordel to posila do twisteru a twister do sitovky a to
> > proste nektery sitovky nerozchodej. Ja sice nemam switch, ale zpusobem jak
> > popisujes me to kousne i integr. sitovku. Proste chvila blika prijimaci
> > LED na sitovce jak o zivot a pak konec. Kdyz jsem me to stalo porpve,
> > myslel jsem ze mam po sitovce. Pomohl az restart a odpojeni PC od site.
> > Chtelo by to udelat do rx nejaky squelch.
> 
> Presne tak.
> Ani se nemusi viditelne RX led na twisteru rozsvitit, ale nejaky pulsy z sumu 
> tam projdou a sitovka, nebo switch se z toho zblazni.
> Je potreba dodelat do RX squelch s nastavitelnou urovni. A nejlepe umlcovat 
> generovani link pulsu v pripade ze squelch zabere. Ve spideru je stim 
> pocitano.

Think a bit, please. A squelch cannot be implemented without reducing
range of the link in conditions with lower light than direct sunlight.

Implementing a squelch therefore reduces reliability in fog (when there
is a fog, there is always less light than in sunlight).

Squelch can work only in fibre optics (no sun, no sun-generated noise).
This is why the simple-minded approach "let's take some fibre optics
transceiver and adapt the optics to FSO" works worse than from-scratch
approach of Ronja.

CL<


From clock at twibright.com  Sun Oct  9 19:54:28 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 20:54:28 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] PCB TX is online (without images)
In-Reply-To: <200510091524.37845.ladmanj@volny.cz>
References: <20050914191853.GA18709@kestrel> <20050928135533.GA27706@kestrel>
	<1128712692.4346c9f45479a@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
	<200510091524.37845.ladmanj@volny.cz>
Message-ID: <20051009185428.GE31003@kestrel>

On Sun, Oct 09, 2005 at 03:24:37PM +0200, Jakub Ladman wrote:
> > > > > I didn't notice any significant price increase because of the
> > > > > cutouts.
> > > > >
> > > > > If you have idea how to design the mechanics without the cutouts
> > > > > then do it please. I wouldn't make them if I found out how to do it
> > > > > neatly without them.
> 
> Napriklad udelat celou desku o ty vyrezy kratsi, podle vseho by se to tam 
> veslo i tak, a proste nebude v tomto smeru az ke kraji krabicky.
> Rychly jednoduchy, pet minut.

Increased radiation on the wires.

> 
> BTW: Ten tistak je zase silene odporny. 
> Takhle odporny layout vidam v cinskych tranzistoracich a podobne "technice".
> 
> Nevim jestli to tak delas schvalne nebo te k tomu soft pcb dostatecne nevede, 
> ale zvykem je delat cesty navzajem rovnobezne a ohyby po 45?.
> To muzes sice vnimat jen jako buzeraci, ale ja to tak nemyslim, ja kdyz delam 
> desku, tak ji delam tak aby byla co nejjednodussi, aby byla co nejlepe 
> promyslena s hlediska vf a napajeni, ale take aby byla esteticka.
> Ty tvoje nesplnuji ani jedno z toho v dostatecne mire.
> Vypadaji, jako by je delal splaseny autorouter, kteremu clovek povolil vsechny 
> psi kusy.

I have made the board how I think is the best for the operation of the
device. If you have any problem with the device, report it. Ronja's goal
is not to look nice when opened. Ronja's goal is to transmit data.

CL<


From clock at twibright.com  Sun Oct  9 19:56:55 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 20:56:55 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Problem with switch Edimax ES-3124RE+
In-Reply-To: <opsydrxcsjn6qjls@daman>
References: <20051009101418.GA1761@localhost.localdomain>
	<opsydrxcsjn6qjls@daman>
Message-ID: <20051009185655.GF31003@kestrel>

> No protoze kdyz rx nema signal z vysilace, tak jako signal vyhodnocuje  
> okolni sum a ten bordel to posila do twisteru a twister do sitovky a to  
> proste nektery sitovky nerozchodej. Ja sice nemam switch, ale zpusobem jak  
> popisujes me to kousne i integr. sitovku. Proste chvila blika prijimaci  
> LED na sitovce jak o zivot a pak konec. Kdyz jsem me to stalo porpve,  
> myslel jsem ze mam po sitovce. Pomohl az restart a odpojeni PC od site.  
> Chtelo by to udelat do rx nejaky squelch.

You get the same problem when TP wire picks up induced interference
from some strong external source. This is just crappy NIC.

I didn't have this problem with cheap Realtek rtl 8139.


From anmic at fmg.sk  Sun Oct  9 20:26:33 2005
From: anmic at fmg.sk (anMic)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 21:26:33 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Problem with switch Edimax ES-3124RE+
References: <20051009101418.GA1761@localhost.localdomain><opsydrxcsjn6qjls@daman>
	<200510091445.05581.ladmanj@volny.cz>
	<20051009185215.GD31003@kestrel>
Message-ID: <002d01c5cd08$1a4e03c0$0101a8c0@anmic>

A co takhle dat tam umlcovac jako volitelny? Komu staci mensi vzdalenost
spoje, muze ho pouzit. Kdo z toho chce vymacknout co nejvic nebo komu se
(napr. kvuli funkcnosti v mlze) neosvedci, muze ho vypnout.

anMic


> On Sun, Oct 09, 2005 at 02:45:05PM +0200, Jakub Ladman wrote:
> > >
> > > No protoze kdyz rx nema signal z vysilace, tak jako signal vyhodnocuje
> > > okolni sum a ten bordel to posila do twisteru a twister do sitovky a
to
> > > proste nektery sitovky nerozchodej. Ja sice nemam switch, ale zpusobem
jak
> > > popisujes me to kousne i integr. sitovku. Proste chvila blika
prijimaci
> > > LED na sitovce jak o zivot a pak konec. Kdyz jsem me to stalo porpve,
> > > myslel jsem ze mam po sitovce. Pomohl az restart a odpojeni PC od
site.
> > > Chtelo by to udelat do rx nejaky squelch.
> >
> > Presne tak.
> > Ani se nemusi viditelne RX led na twisteru rozsvitit, ale nejaky pulsy z
sumu
> > tam projdou a sitovka, nebo switch se z toho zblazni.
> > Je potreba dodelat do RX squelch s nastavitelnou urovni. A nejlepe
umlcovat
> > generovani link pulsu v pripade ze squelch zabere. Ve spideru je stim
> > pocitano.
>
> Think a bit, please. A squelch cannot be implemented without reducing
> range of the link in conditions with lower light than direct sunlight.
>
> Implementing a squelch therefore reduces reliability in fog (when there
> is a fog, there is always less light than in sunlight).
>
> Squelch can work only in fibre optics (no sun, no sun-generated noise).
> This is why the simple-minded approach "let's take some fibre optics
> transceiver and adapt the optics to FSO" works worse than from-scratch
> approach of Ronja.
>
> CL<
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>



From anmic at fmg.sk  Sun Oct  9 20:22:39 2005
From: anmic at fmg.sk (anMic)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 21:22:39 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Problem with switch Edimax ES-3124RE+
References: <200510091225.22114@centrum.cz>
Message-ID: <002c01c5cd08$197c34d0$0101a8c0@anmic>


> Koupil jsem switch Edimax ES-3124RE+, jedna se o 24portovy
> managementovatelny
> switch v rack provedeni, ovladany pres seriovy port s podporou VLAN a
> manualniho nastaveni 10/100 FD/HD. Stoji okolo 2100 CZK. Ronja s nim
> funguje
> ve fullduplexnim rezimu, ale narazil jsem na zvlastni problem. Pokud
> zakryji
> RX na ronje (nebo zrusim zamereni) po chvilce odkryji (nebo zamerim), tak
> ve
> switchi prestane fungovat na danem portu prichozi smer (zadne pakety
> neprijima), TX na danem portu vsak pracuje dobre. Po resetu (treba i
> softwarovem, aktivovanem pres seriovy port) zase vse funguje.
>

Nevim, nakolik to s tim souvisi, ale nekdy resim podobny problem. Kdyz nekdy
zapinam PC a Ronja nedostava signal z protistanice, ktera je vypnuta, sitova
karta rtl8139 mi nekdy nedetekuje spojeni (zrejme nedostava link-integrity
pulsy; nesviti indikacni led + system detekuje odpojeny kabel).

Normalne staci jenom "restartovat" Ronju a vse pak jede vpohode a sitovka
pak detekuje pripojene TP medium.

Jenom poznamenavam, ze mam asi 20m UTP svod od Twisteru k PC a po TP je
vedeno taky napajeci napeti. Mozna to bude tim, ze se na takto dlouhem UTP
signal nejak "deformuje" nebo se tam nachyta kdeco. Nevim.

anMic



> Docela me to prekvapuje, nebot jsem se domnival, ze pokud neni signal, tak
> twister stale generuje link pulzy a switch nema sanci rozlisit, zda neni
> signal,
> nebo se jen nic neposila.
>
> Jak se zmeni chovani Twistera, kdyz mu zmizi signal na RX?
> Co Twister posle na UTP, ze na to switch muze nejak zareagovat?
>
> -- 
> Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo
>
> Ondrej 'SanTiago' Zajicek (email: santiago at mail.cz, jabber:
> santiago at njs.netlab.cz)
> OpenPGP encrypted e-mails preferred (KeyID 0x11DEADC3, wwwkeys.pgp.net)
> "To err is human -- to blame it on a computer is even more so."
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>
>



_______________________________________________
Ronja mailing list
Ronja at lists.pointless.net
http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja



From anmic at fmg.sk  Sun Oct  9 20:30:51 2005
From: anmic at fmg.sk (anMic)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 21:30:51 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Problem with switch Edimax ES-3124RE+
References: <20051009101418.GA1761@localhost.localdomain><opsydrxcsjn6qjls@daman>
	<20051009185655.GF31003@kestrel>
Message-ID: <002e01c5cd08$1b0f30e0$0101a8c0@anmic>

> > No protoze kdyz rx nema signal z vysilace, tak jako signal vyhodnocuje
> > okolni sum a ten bordel to posila do twisteru a twister do sitovky a to
> > proste nektery sitovky nerozchodej. Ja sice nemam switch, ale zpusobem
jak
> > popisujes me to kousne i integr. sitovku. Proste chvila blika prijimaci
> > LED na sitovce jak o zivot a pak konec. Kdyz jsem me to stalo porpve,
> > myslel jsem ze mam po sitovce. Pomohl az restart a odpojeni PC od site.
> > Chtelo by to udelat do rx nejaky squelch.
>
> You get the same problem when TP wire picks up induced interference
> from some strong external source. This is just crappy NIC.
>
> I didn't have this problem with cheap Realtek rtl 8139.
>

Muzu potvrdit, ze rtl8139 mi zatim vychazeji pro Ronju ze vsech sitovek
nejlepe a nemel jsem s nimi vetsi problem. Utahne mi i 20m kabel od Twisteru
(bez uprav, zadne TP trafo, jen spojka) a stoji par desetikorun.

anMic



From daniel.strnad at tiscali.cz  Sun Oct  9 22:40:47 2005
From: daniel.strnad at tiscali.cz (Daniel Strnad)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 21:40:47 -0000
Subject: [Ronja] Problem with switch Edimax ES-3124RE+
In-Reply-To: <002e01c5cd08$1b0f30e0$0101a8c0@anmic>
References: <20051009101418.GA1761@localhost.localdomain><opsydrxcsjn6qjls@daman>
	<20051009185655.GF31003@kestrel>
	<002e01c5cd08$1b0f30e0$0101a8c0@anmic>
Message-ID: <opsyeeh9f2n6qjls@daman>

On Sun, 9 Oct 2005 21:30:51 +0200, anMic <anmic at fmg.sk> wrote:

> Muzu potvrdit, ze rtl8139 mi zatim vychazeji pro Ronju ze vsech sitovek
> nejlepe a nemel jsem s nimi vetsi problem. Utahne mi i 20m kabel od  
> Twisteru
> (bez uprav, zadne TP trafo, jen spojka) a stoji par desetikorun.
>
> anMic
Naprosty souhlas.


From petr.cipis at tiscali.cz  Sun Oct  9 20:44:18 2005
From: petr.cipis at tiscali.cz (Cipis)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 21:44:18 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Problem with switch Edimax ES-3124RE+
References: <20051009101418.GA1761@localhost.localdomain><opsydrxcsjn6qjls@daman><20051009185655.GF31003@kestrel><002e01c5cd08$1b0f30e0$0101a8c0@anmic>
	<opsyeeh9f2n6qjls@daman>
Message-ID: <002501c5cd09$d6827200$4d46a8c0@cipis.net>

no jo, ale sitovka je mi k nicemu, kdyz se tam nemuze dat kompl
a kdyz to nejede s managed svicema, tak je asi v necem problem
mimo problemu s pouzitelnosti

zajimalo by me, kolik lidi zkusilo upravit svice podle meho navodu,
ja je mam dva, ale ronju jsem jeste nerozjel, neni cas :-/

Cipis

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Daniel Strnad" <daniel.strnad at tiscali.cz>
To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2005 11:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Ronja] Problem with switch Edimax ES-3124RE+


> On Sun, 9 Oct 2005 21:30:51 +0200, anMic <anmic at fmg.sk> wrote:
> 
> > Muzu potvrdit, ze rtl8139 mi zatim vychazeji pro Ronju ze vsech sitovek
> > nejlepe a nemel jsem s nimi vetsi problem. Utahne mi i 20m kabel od  
> > Twisteru
> > (bez uprav, zadne TP trafo, jen spojka) a stoji par desetikorun.
> >
> > anMic
> Naprosty souhlas.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From clock at twibright.com  Sun Oct  9 20:57:18 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 21:57:18 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Squelch
Message-ID: <20051009195718.GA2037@kestrel>

Actually one could make squelch by disabling output when no interframe
gap came for already too long time.

This wouldn't relieve on the boundary between noise and signal but
at least decrease the probability that crappy network card or switch
hang.

CL<


From ladmanj at volny.cz  Sun Oct  9 22:03:48 2005
From: ladmanj at volny.cz (Jakub Ladman)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 23:03:48 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] PCB TX is online (without images)
In-Reply-To: <20051009185428.GE31003@kestrel>
References: <20050914191853.GA18709@kestrel>
	<200510091524.37845.ladmanj@volny.cz>
	<20051009185428.GE31003@kestrel>
Message-ID: <200510092303.49168.ladmanj@volny.cz>

>
> Increased radiation on the wires.
Nevim proc by tomu tak melo(muselo) byt.

> I have made the board how I think is the best for the operation of the
> device. If you have any problem with the device, report it. Ronja's goal
> is not to look nice when opened. Ronja's goal is to transmit data.

Pochopitelne, ale ...
Mohl bych taky opet pripominat C84 na twisteru a tak podobne.
Jedinny co tim sleduju je, donutit te k tomu abys se nad tim zamyslel.

Ja na to v podstate seru, jen jsem tim trosku ostreji reagoval na nevybirave 
podanou kritiku mych napadu, ne ze bych je povazoval za nepodnetne, ale 
nasira mne ten staly arogantni ton. 
Jakub


From ronja at cobrik.net  Sun Oct  9 23:36:46 2005
From: ronja at cobrik.net (ronja@cobrik.net)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 00:36:46 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Anomalie s Twisterem
In-Reply-To: <20051005135959.GA18730@kestrel>
References: <1128037053.433c7abd6fd6a@mail.cobrik.net>
	<20051002192013.GA22340@kestrel.t-n-p.org>
	<1128300126.43407e5e9b2ee@mail.cobrik.net>
	<200510041336.15093.ladmanj@volny.cz>
	<1128455354.4342dcba74e66@mail.cobrik.net>
	<20051005135959.GA18730@kestrel>
Message-ID: <1128897406.43499b7eb5669@mail.cobrik.net>

Tak sem se konecne dostal ke cloveku s digitalnim fotakem ... sice fotky nejsou
nic extra ale byl sem rad ze mi to nafotil abych teda ted kdyztak mohl ten
silenej AM26LS32ACN vymenit nebo alespon mu projet pajkou kontakty jestli to
nepomuze ... a pak je asi pravda ze bych mohl umejt ten plosnak od toho tavidla
...

Takze ty fotky (doufam ze moc nepomluvite ale pajim jak umim :-)):

TxA - http://ronja.cobrik.net/txa.jpg
RxA - http://ronja.cobrik.net/rxa.jpg
TxB - http://ronja.cobrik.net/txb.jpg
RxB - http://ronja.cobrik.net/rxb.jpg
Twister A top - http://ronja.cobrik.net/twa_top.jpg
Twister A bottom - http://ronja.cobrik.net/twa_bottom.jpg
Twister B top - http://ronja.cobrik.net/twb_top.jpg
Twister B bottom - http://ronja.cobrik.net/twb_bottom.jpg

Diky

Milos

> On Tue, Oct 04, 2005 at 09:49:14PM +0200, ronja at cobrik.net wrote:
> > Tak sem zkusil i ten odpor a nic ... co je horsi ze sem zjistil co tomu
> pomuze
> > (Twisteru aby fungoval) jen nevim jak to opravit ... kdyz sem promeroval
> vse
> > mozne co me napadlo ... dosel sem az k 11.pinu obvodu AM26LS32 tedy obvod s
> > oznacenim U62 dokonce merici misto s oznacenim P52 a kdyz sem meril napeti
> (no
> > uz ani nevim jak me to napadlo stejne sem nic rozumnyho nezmeril nybrz to
> byl
> > obyc multimetr a bohuzel osciloskop nemam - asi ze zoufalstvi) a jeden
> merici
> > hrot sem mel na tomto miste a druhy proti zemi twister zacal bezvadne
> fungovat
> > ... nevypadne ani paket a bezi to vse bez problemu ... jak dam jeden z
> hrotu
> > pryc je tu opet muj problem (neprojde skoro zadny paket) ...
> >
> > Takze ted premyslim nad tim co ten multimetr s tim signalem tam vlastne
> udelal
> > (skoro mam pocit ze z toho U62 z vystupu toho operaku mi leze nejakej
> zarusenej
> > paskvil s kterym si zbytek zapojeni neporadi a me se ho tim multimetrem
> podari
> > nejak pozmenit do prijatelny formy) ... vzhledem k tomu ze byl preplej na
> > mereni napeti musel mit vysokej vnitrni odpor a asi by mohl i docela dobre
> > simulovat kapacitu a merici hroty mozna indukcnost ... no proste fajn
> kombinace
> > ...
> >
> > Nenapada nekoho neco co s tim ? Mimo toho ze bych zvetsil krabicku a
> vestavel
> > multimetr natvrdo do Twistera :-))) ci to nekam zahodil a postavil novej ?
>
> I think you have probably cold joint in Twister. Haven't you been
> smoking a joint which went out and didn't you drop it into the box? :)
>
> Inspect the board for joints with non-uniform or non-smooth surface and
> reheat them with soldering iron dipped into rosin flux. Then wash away
> with isopropyl alcohol and try again.
>
> If thid doesn't help, try that for *all* joints. That should take long
> time I hope. I guess you used the same components for both boards so
> it's likely it's a cold joint.
>
> Can you send a photo of the board before trying to fix? I can tell you
> if I like your soldering or not :)
>
> CL<
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>





From clock at twibright.com  Mon Oct 10 14:39:09 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 15:39:09 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] PCB TX is online (without images)
In-Reply-To: <200510092303.49168.ladmanj@volny.cz>
References: <20050914191853.GA18709@kestrel>
	<200510091524.37845.ladmanj@volny.cz>
	<20051009185428.GE31003@kestrel>
	<200510092303.49168.ladmanj@volny.cz>
Message-ID: <20051010133909.GA11844@kestrel>

On Sun, Oct 09, 2005 at 11:03:48PM +0200, Jakub Ladman wrote:
> >
> > Increased radiation on the wires.
> Nevim proc by tomu tak melo(muselo) byt.
> 
> > I have made the board how I think is the best for the operation of the
> > device. If you have any problem with the device, report it. Ronja's goal
> > is not to look nice when opened. Ronja's goal is to transmit data.
> 
> Pochopitelne, ale ...
> Mohl bych taky opet pripominat C84 na twisteru a tak podobne.
> Jedinny co tim sleduju je, donutit te k tomu abys se nad tim zamyslel.
> 
> Ja na to v podstate seru, jen jsem tim trosku ostreji reagoval na nevybirave 
> podanou kritiku mych napadu, ne ze bych je povazoval za nepodnetne, ale 
> nasira mne ten staly arogantni ton. 

I am not aware of being arrogant in discussions with you.

"Arrogance is the act of obtaining rights or advantages, including
merely rhetorical advantages, through violence or threats of violence,
or through verbal violence."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrogant

Can you point out threats of violence or verbal violence in my
arguments?

CL<


From ladmanj at volny.cz  Mon Oct 10 14:44:10 2005
From: ladmanj at volny.cz (Jakub Ladman)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 15:44:10 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] PCB TX is online (without images)
In-Reply-To: <20051010133909.GA11844@kestrel>
References: <20050914191853.GA18709@kestrel>
	<200510092303.49168.ladmanj@volny.cz>
	<20051010133909.GA11844@kestrel>
Message-ID: <200510101544.11336.ladmanj@volny.cz>


Arogantnim mi prijde i to, ze na to co je vicemene osobni odpovidas anglicky, 
ale to je jedno nemam chut se v tom dale vrtat.
Jakub
>
> I am not aware of being arrogant in discussions with you.
>
> "Arrogance is the act of obtaining rights or advantages, including
> merely rhetorical advantages, through violence or threats of violence,
> or through verbal violence."
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrogant
>
> Can you point out threats of violence or verbal violence in my
> arguments?
>
> CL<
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From clock at twibright.com  Mon Oct 10 14:45:01 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 15:45:01 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Anomalie s Twisterem
In-Reply-To: <1128897406.43499b7eb5669@mail.cobrik.net>
References: <1128037053.433c7abd6fd6a@mail.cobrik.net>
	<20051002192013.GA22340@kestrel.t-n-p.org>
	<1128300126.43407e5e9b2ee@mail.cobrik.net>
	<200510041336.15093.ladmanj@volny.cz>
	<1128455354.4342dcba74e66@mail.cobrik.net>
	<20051005135959.GA18730@kestrel>
	<1128897406.43499b7eb5669@mail.cobrik.net>
Message-ID: <20051010134501.GB11844@kestrel>

On Mon, Oct 10, 2005 at 12:36:46AM +0200, ronja at cobrik.net wrote:
> Tak sem se konecne dostal ke cloveku s digitalnim fotakem ... sice fotky nejsou
> nic extra ale byl sem rad ze mi to nafotil abych teda ted kdyztak mohl ten
> silenej AM26LS32ACN vymenit nebo alespon mu projet pajkou kontakty jestli to
> nepomuze ... a pak je asi pravda ze bych mohl umejt ten plosnak od toho tavidla
> ...
> 
> Takze ty fotky (doufam ze moc nepomluvite ale pajim jak umim :-)):
> 
> TxA - http://ronja.cobrik.net/txa.jpg
> RxA - http://ronja.cobrik.net/rxa.jpg
> TxB - http://ronja.cobrik.net/txb.jpg
> RxB - http://ronja.cobrik.net/rxb.jpg
> Twister A top - http://ronja.cobrik.net/twa_top.jpg
> Twister A bottom - http://ronja.cobrik.net/twa_bottom.jpg
> Twister B top - http://ronja.cobrik.net/twb_top.jpg
> Twister B bottom - http://ronja.cobrik.net/twb_bottom.jpg

Hm sorry I can't see the joint properly can you please rinse the board
in isopropyl alcohol to get rid of the rosin flux and take a sharper
picture again?

I think some of the points are soldered improperly but am not sure.

CL<


From clock at twibright.com  Mon Oct 10 18:04:40 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 19:04:40 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] PCB TX is online (without images)
In-Reply-To: <200510101544.11336.ladmanj@volny.cz>
References: <20050914191853.GA18709@kestrel>
	<200510092303.49168.ladmanj@volny.cz>
	<20051010133909.GA11844@kestrel>
	<200510101544.11336.ladmanj@volny.cz>
Message-ID: <20051010170439.GA450@kestrel>

On Mon, Oct 10, 2005 at 03:44:10PM +0200, Jakub Ladman wrote:
> 
> Arogantnim mi prijde i to, ze na to co je vicemene osobni odpovidas anglicky, 
> ale to je jedno nemam chut se v tom dale vrtat.

But this doesn't fulfill the definition of arrogance, therefore isn't
arrogant.

CL<
> Jakub
> >
> > I am not aware of being arrogant in discussions with you.
> >
> > "Arrogance is the act of obtaining rights or advantages, including
> > merely rhetorical advantages, through violence or threats of violence,
> > or through verbal violence."
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrogant
> >
> > Can you point out threats of violence or verbal violence in my
> > arguments?
> >
> > CL<
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ronja mailing list
> > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From Seligr at sh.cvut.cz  Mon Oct 10 21:06:11 2005
From: Seligr at sh.cvut.cz (Seligr@sh.cvut.cz)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 22:06:11 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] PCB TX is online (without images)
In-Reply-To: <20051010170439.GA450@kestrel>
References: <20050914191853.GA18709@kestrel>
	<200510092303.49168.ladmanj@volny.cz>
	<20051010133909.GA11844@kestrel>
	<200510101544.11336.ladmanj@volny.cz>
	<20051010170439.GA450@kestrel>
Message-ID: <1128974771.434ac9b3bdfff@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>

Cituji z emailu od Karel Kulhavy <clock at twibright.com>:

> On Mon, Oct 10, 2005 at 03:44:10PM +0200, Jakub Ladman wrote:
> > 
> > Arogantnim mi prijde i to, ze na to co je vicemene osobni odpovidas
> anglicky, 
> > ale to je jedno nemam chut se v tom dale vrtat.
> 
> But this doesn't fulfill the definition of arrogance, therefore isn't
> arrogant.
> 

"ignorant" bude to spravne slovo.

> CL<
> > Jakub
> > >
> > > I am not aware of being arrogant in discussions with you.
> > >
> > > "Arrogance is the act of obtaining rights or advantages, including
> > > merely rhetorical advantages, through violence or threats of violence,
> > > or through verbal violence."
> > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrogant
> > >
> > > Can you point out threats of violence or verbal violence in my
> > > arguments?
> > >
> > > CL<
> > >






From ronja at cobrik.net  Mon Oct 10 22:05:58 2005
From: ronja at cobrik.net (ronja@cobrik.net)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 23:05:58 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Anomalie s Twisterem
In-Reply-To: <20051010134501.GB11844@kestrel>
References: <1128037053.433c7abd6fd6a@mail.cobrik.net>
	<20051002192013.GA22340@kestrel.t-n-p.org>
	<1128300126.43407e5e9b2ee@mail.cobrik.net>
	<200510041336.15093.ladmanj@volny.cz>
	<1128455354.4342dcba74e66@mail.cobrik.net>
	<20051005135959.GA18730@kestrel>
	<1128897406.43499b7eb5669@mail.cobrik.net>
	<20051010134501.GB11844@kestrel>
Message-ID: <1128978358.434ad7b640c1f@mail.cobrik.net>

Tak sem omyl desky Twistera tim Isopropyl-alkoholem ... a tady jsou jeste fotky
plosnaku jednou (a ne ze me budete pomlouvat ... :-))))

http://ronja.cobrik.net/twister_bottom_new1.jpg
http://ronja.cobrik.net/twister_bottom_new2.jpg

Milos

P.S.: Tak asi zkusim ted vymenit ty AM26LSxx a prohrat kontakty ... a testnu to
znova ...

> On Mon, Oct 10, 2005 at 12:36:46AM +0200, ronja at cobrik.net wrote:
> > Tak sem se konecne dostal ke cloveku s digitalnim fotakem ... sice fotky
> nejsou
> > nic extra ale byl sem rad ze mi to nafotil abych teda ted kdyztak mohl ten
> > silenej AM26LS32ACN vymenit nebo alespon mu projet pajkou kontakty jestli
> to
> > nepomuze ... a pak je asi pravda ze bych mohl umejt ten plosnak od toho
> tavidla
> > ...
> >
> > Takze ty fotky (doufam ze moc nepomluvite ale pajim jak umim :-)):
> >
> > TxA - http://ronja.cobrik.net/txa.jpg
> > RxA - http://ronja.cobrik.net/rxa.jpg
> > TxB - http://ronja.cobrik.net/txb.jpg
> > RxB - http://ronja.cobrik.net/rxb.jpg
> > Twister A top - http://ronja.cobrik.net/twa_top.jpg
> > Twister A bottom - http://ronja.cobrik.net/twa_bottom.jpg
> > Twister B top - http://ronja.cobrik.net/twb_top.jpg
> > Twister B bottom - http://ronja.cobrik.net/twb_bottom.jpg
>
> Hm sorry I can't see the joint properly can you please rinse the board
> in isopropyl alcohol to get rid of the rosin flux and take a sharper
> picture again?
>
> I think some of the points are soldered improperly but am not sure.
>
> CL<
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>





From clock at twibright.com  Tue Oct 11 11:23:55 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 12:23:55 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Anomalie s Twisterem
In-Reply-To: <1128978358.434ad7b640c1f@mail.cobrik.net>
References: <1128037053.433c7abd6fd6a@mail.cobrik.net>
	<20051002192013.GA22340@kestrel.t-n-p.org>
	<1128300126.43407e5e9b2ee@mail.cobrik.net>
	<200510041336.15093.ladmanj@volny.cz>
	<1128455354.4342dcba74e66@mail.cobrik.net>
	<20051005135959.GA18730@kestrel>
	<1128897406.43499b7eb5669@mail.cobrik.net>
	<20051010134501.GB11844@kestrel>
	<1128978358.434ad7b640c1f@mail.cobrik.net>
Message-ID: <20051011102355.GA9761@kestrel.twibright.com>

On Mon, Oct 10, 2005 at 11:05:58PM +0200, ronja at cobrik.net wrote:
> Tak sem omyl desky Twistera tim Isopropyl-alkoholem ... a tady jsou jeste fotky
> plosnaku jednou (a ne ze me budete pomlouvat ... :-))))
> 
> http://ronja.cobrik.net/twister_bottom_new1.jpg
> http://ronja.cobrik.net/twister_bottom_new2.jpg

I would say that couple of joints have cracks or irregular surface -
take a soldering iron and remelt all ugly joints on the faulty
Twister with the iron and soldering flux until it forms a nice regular
clean cone. All the parts of the joint (the eyelet, the wire and the
solder) have to heat up above melting temperature.

Then try it again. If it doesn't help, try resoldering *all* joints
(i. e. even those nice).

I once fixed a nonworking board this way (but it wasn't Ronja and
was soldered by someone else).

If this doesn't help perform once again a check if some resistor or
capacitor isn't wrong value or some chip soldered in the other way
or incorrect type.

CL<

> 
> Milos
> 
> P.S.: Tak asi zkusim ted vymenit ty AM26LSxx a prohrat kontakty ... a testnu to
> znova ...
> 
> > On Mon, Oct 10, 2005 at 12:36:46AM +0200, ronja at cobrik.net wrote:
> > > Tak sem se konecne dostal ke cloveku s digitalnim fotakem ... sice fotky
> > nejsou
> > > nic extra ale byl sem rad ze mi to nafotil abych teda ted kdyztak mohl ten
> > > silenej AM26LS32ACN vymenit nebo alespon mu projet pajkou kontakty jestli
> > to
> > > nepomuze ... a pak je asi pravda ze bych mohl umejt ten plosnak od toho
> > tavidla
> > > ...
> > >
> > > Takze ty fotky (doufam ze moc nepomluvite ale pajim jak umim :-)):
> > >
> > > TxA - http://ronja.cobrik.net/txa.jpg
> > > RxA - http://ronja.cobrik.net/rxa.jpg
> > > TxB - http://ronja.cobrik.net/txb.jpg
> > > RxB - http://ronja.cobrik.net/rxb.jpg
> > > Twister A top - http://ronja.cobrik.net/twa_top.jpg
> > > Twister A bottom - http://ronja.cobrik.net/twa_bottom.jpg
> > > Twister B top - http://ronja.cobrik.net/twb_top.jpg
> > > Twister B bottom - http://ronja.cobrik.net/twb_bottom.jpg
> >
> > Hm sorry I can't see the joint properly can you please rinse the board
> > in isopropyl alcohol to get rid of the rosin flux and take a sharper
> > picture again?
> >
> > I think some of the points are soldered improperly but am not sure.
> >
> > CL<
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ronja mailing list
> > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From clock at twibright.com  Tue Oct 11 12:17:56 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 13:17:56 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] PCB TX is online (without images)
In-Reply-To: <1128712692.4346c9f45479a@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
References: <20050914191853.GA18709@kestrel>
	<200509262305.26055.ladmanj@volny.cz>
	<20050927081829.GC11614@kestrel.twibright.com>
	<1127822763.433935abf0a41@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
	<20050928135533.GA27706@kestrel>
	<1128712692.4346c9f45479a@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
Message-ID: <20051011111756.GB15923@kestrel.twibright.com>

On Fri, Oct 07, 2005 at 09:18:12PM +0200, Seligr at sh.cvut.cz wrote:
> Cituji z emailu od Karel Kulhavy <clock at twibright.com>:
> 
> > On Tue, Sep 27, 2005 at 02:06:03PM +0200, Seligr at sh.cvut.cz wrote:
> > > Cituji z emailu od Karel Kulhavy <clock at twibright.com>:
> > > 
> > > > On Mon, Sep 26, 2005 at 11:05:25PM +0200, Jakub Ladman wrote:
> > > > > Prvn? co m? napad? kdy? se te? kouk?m na TX na PCB:
> > > > > V??ezy v ti???ku (v m?st? dr?tov?ch v?vod? a v m?st?
> > > > > stabiliz?toru), kter?
> > > > 
> > > > > jsou imho zbyte?n?, zbyte?n? prodra?? desku.
> > > > 
> > > > I didn't notice any significant price increase because of the cutouts.
> > > > 
> > > > If you have idea how to design the mechanics without the cutouts
> > > > then do it please. I wouldn't make them if I found out how to do it
> > > > neatly without them.
> > > > 
> > > > CL<
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > No, stabilizator by stacilo prisroubovat na pocinovany PCB pobliz
> > > okraje. Draty
> > 
> > I don't think the thermal conductivitity of the 35um copper foil is
> > good enough. The regulator is dissipating quite some power.
> > 
> Vykon ztraceny v TX je temer zanetbatelny. Na 35um medi s nep. maskou se bez
> problemu nechaji uchladit 3W a vic, staci se podivat na doporuceni ke
> stabilizatorum v pouzdrech DPAK.
> 
> > I would like to use a switched regulator in subsequent designs to
> > get rid of this dissipation.
> > 
> Dobry napad. Pouzitelny sehnatelny maly stabilizator muze byt onsemi MC34063.
> Jen je problem jakou vybrat snadno dostupnou civku. Zatim nejlepsi napad je
> namotat si vlastni na toroidni jadro vystupniho filtru vyhoreleho poc. zdroje.

What properties does the ferrite ring have? How does it behave at high
frequencies?

Actually is behaviour of ferromagnetic materials themselves limited at
high frequencies if we operate the material in unsaturated, i. e. linear
region or does it extent happily to infinite frequencies?

> 
> Here is kazda rada expensive. Jeste sem nic lepsiho nevymyslel.
> 
> > So we have two cutouts. The third is just for convenience.
> > 
> 
> Sorry tady me vypadla pointa. Pokud se budou draty lepit tavnym lepidlem nebo
> necim takovym tak je potreba je lepit na PCB. Proto se me ta dira nelibila.

You glue the wires into the holes. If you glued down on PCB and the wire
broke and you needed to replace it, desoldering it would be messy
because you would be burning the glue with soldering iron.

> Ty prokovky nejsou zas az tak dobry napad pokud se to bude pajet hrotovou
> pajeckou, pet der uz odvadi prilis mnoho tepla takze hrozi studeny spoj.

The heat is mainly stolen by the thick wires anyway. Get a real regulated iron
(Metcal, not Weller) or transformer gun.

Weller, ERSA and similar irons are useless for soldering anyway - they
have a bad regulation so if you solder thick wire the temperature drops.
If you increase the temperature, the idle temperature rises to the point
when the rosin flux burns into coal before you manage to move the iron
from rosin flux pot to your board, so you solder with a substance that
actually even decreases the solderability compared to fluxless solder.
So you can never make a reliable joint anyway whatever you try.

> 
> > The soldering pads have intentionally 5 vias which hold the pad together
> > in case of overheating and peeling off the PCB. It's easy to overheat
> > because
> > 1) If the wires break by frequent bending you have to change them
> > 2) Often you use very thick wires which require lot of heat to heat up
> > and that thermally overheats the PCB during soldering
> > 3) I hate all the crappy consumer electronics I had at home (walkmans,
> > radios etc.) where something always broke off because the PCB was
> > designed to be easily manufactured and wasn't designed to be robust.
> > I permanently had to resolder broken-out 3.5mm stereo jacks and other
> > connectors and cords.
> > 
> > > pripajet na plosky bez der z jedne strany. A u LEDky by se taky neco
> > > vymyslelo.

They delaminate easily by the heat.

> > 
> > You see? You talk like if it could be done without the cutouts but
> > don't provide actual proposal how to do it. I don't believe you.
> > 
> > > 
> > > Celkem vzato za tech 10,799.48 moc hubeny vysledek.
> > 
> > You didn't pay anything. So you get it for 0.00 instead of 10,799.48.
> > 
> > If you don't like the style how Ronja is developed, you can go to
> > proprietary competition or start your own fork. That's why Ronja is free
> > - to give freedom to the users.
> 
> Jen male rypnuti. S tou propagaci free, GPL, Linux uz me zacinas
> pripominat meho kamarada pojistovaka... 

If you don't like free, GPL and Linux, then buy a commercial FSO
datalink. There you can satisfy yourself with a quite certain warm
feeling that they used proprietary Protel, Eagle, or Orcad on
proprietary Windows while designing that. And that the source codes
for schematics and boards are carefully kept secret.

CL<


From clock at twibright.com  Wed Oct 12 14:58:16 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 15:58:16 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Relicensing Ronja from GPL to GFDL
Message-ID: <20051012135816.GA23437@kestrel>

Would anyone have any objections against if I relicenced Ronja from GPL
(which is suitable for software and not documentation like Ronja is) to
GFDL (under which for example Wikipedia is)?

CL<


From jakub.michnik at centrum.cz  Wed Oct 12 15:37:41 2005
From: jakub.michnik at centrum.cz (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jakub_Michn=EDk?=)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 16:37:41 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] XT Rx
In-Reply-To: <20051012135816.GA23437@kestrel>
References: <20051012135816.GA23437@kestrel>
Message-ID: <434D1FB5.5060007@centrum.cz>

mnaga ma na svojich strankach data potrebne k vyrobe desky na jeho verzi 
Rxu. da se nekde sehnat aji osazovak nebo *.sch, brd ? popr naka dalsi 
zajimava dokumentation?


From clock at twibright.com  Wed Oct 12 16:27:23 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 17:27:23 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] XT Rx
In-Reply-To: <434D1FB5.5060007@centrum.cz>
References: <20051012135816.GA23437@kestrel> <434D1FB5.5060007@centrum.cz>
Message-ID: <20051012152723.GA12989@kestrel>

On Wed, Oct 12, 2005 at 04:37:41PM +0200, Jakub Michn?k wrote:
> mnaga ma na svojich strankach data potrebne k vyrobe desky na jeho verzi 
> Rxu. da se nekde sehnat aji osazovak nebo *.sch, brd ? popr naka dalsi 
> zajimava dokumentation?

If Mnaga made the board in gEDA PCB and I could put it into Ronja,
assembly plan and assmebly part lists would be automatically generated
by existing toolchain and placed online.

CL<


From Seligr at sh.cvut.cz  Wed Oct 12 17:31:57 2005
From: Seligr at sh.cvut.cz (Petr Seliger)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 18:31:57 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] XT Rx
In-Reply-To: <434D1FB5.5060007@centrum.cz>
References: <20051012135816.GA23437@kestrel>
Message-ID: <434D569D.25151.D58C7@localhost>

On 12 Oct 2005 at 16:37, Jakub Michn?k wrote:

> mnaga ma na svojich strankach data potrebne k vyrobe desky na jeho verzi 
> Rxu. da se nekde sehnat aji osazovak nebo *.sch, brd ? popr naka dalsi 
> zajimava dokumentation?
> 

Osazovak ani dokumentaci nema ani mnaga sam :) . *.brd muzu zajemcum poslat. 
Schema ale jeste potrebuje zkulturnit. V Pragoboardu pak lezi hotove filmy s 
panelizaci 3*2ks pod nazvem RXver1 (nebo RXverze1) ale pragoboardaci chteji 
souhlas pro kazdou novou zakazku. Zatim muzou vyrabet pro HKfree a Jakuba 
Horkeho.
Vec se ma tak ze se momentalne osazuje varka pro sponzory a jeste se ladi hodnoty 
soucastek. Zatim to vypada ze lze cekat velmi vyrazne zlepseni parametru.
Jak bude trochu cas tak to sepise a publikuje.



From toad at amphibian.dyndns.org  Wed Oct 12 17:31:32 2005
From: toad at amphibian.dyndns.org (Matthew Toseland)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 17:31:32 +0100
Subject: [Ronja] Relicensing Ronja from GPL to GFDL
In-Reply-To: <20051012135816.GA23437@kestrel>
References: <20051012135816.GA23437@kestrel>
Message-ID: <20051012163132.GA17244@amphibian.dyndns.org>

I was under the impression that GFDL is not DFSG-free; does it permit
free modification? There were some Debian issues with CC licenses
recently, I think GFDL is also affected. Also, Ronja plainly has "source
code"-like elements - designs in various free CAD programs - doesn't it?
In which case a copyleft license is quite reasonable.

On Wed, Oct 12, 2005 at 03:58:16PM +0200, Karel Kulhavy wrote:
> Would anyone have any objections against if I relicenced Ronja from GPL
> (which is suitable for software and not documentation like Ronja is) to
> GFDL (under which for example Wikipedia is)?
> 
> CL<
-- 
Matthew J Toseland - toad at amphibian.dyndns.org
Freenet Project Official Codemonkey - http://freenetproject.org/
ICTHUS - Nothing is impossible. Our Boss says so.
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From clock at twibright.com  Thu Oct 13 11:06:58 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 12:06:58 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Relicensing Ronja from GPL to GFDL
In-Reply-To: <20051012163132.GA17244@amphibian.dyndns.org>
References: <20051012135816.GA23437@kestrel>
	<20051012163132.GA17244@amphibian.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <20051013100658.GA3403@kestrel>

On Wed, Oct 12, 2005 at 05:31:32PM +0100, Matthew Toseland wrote:
> I was under the impression that GFDL is not DFSG-free; does it permit
> free modification? There were some Debian issues with CC licenses
> recently, I think GFDL is also affected. Also, Ronja plainly has "source
> code"-like elements - designs in various free CAD programs - doesn't it?

CAD program is just a program suitable for drawing this type of line
pictures, as GIMP is suitable for photo editing and Sodipodi for hand
drawing. Are you going to call *.jpg or *.svg a source code?

CL<

> In which case a copyleft license is quite reasonable.
> 
> On Wed, Oct 12, 2005 at 03:58:16PM +0200, Karel Kulhavy wrote:
> > Would anyone have any objections against if I relicenced Ronja from GPL
> > (which is suitable for software and not documentation like Ronja is) to
> > GFDL (under which for example Wikipedia is)?
> > 
> > CL<
> -- 
> Matthew J Toseland - toad at amphibian.dyndns.org
> Freenet Project Official Codemonkey - http://freenetproject.org/
> ICTHUS - Nothing is impossible. Our Boss says so.



> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja



From toad at amphibian.dyndns.org  Thu Oct 13 11:50:37 2005
From: toad at amphibian.dyndns.org (Matthew Toseland)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 11:50:37 +0100
Subject: [Ronja] Relicensing Ronja from GPL to GFDL
In-Reply-To: <20051013100658.GA3403@kestrel>
References: <20051012135816.GA23437@kestrel>
	<20051012163132.GA17244@amphibian.dyndns.org>
	<20051013100658.GA3403@kestrel>
Message-ID: <20051013105037.GA6115@amphibian.dyndns.org>

On Thu, Oct 13, 2005 at 12:06:58PM +0200, Karel Kulhavy wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 12, 2005 at 05:31:32PM +0100, Matthew Toseland wrote:
> > I was under the impression that GFDL is not DFSG-free; does it permit
> > free modification? There were some Debian issues with CC licenses
> > recently, I think GFDL is also affected. Also, Ronja plainly has "source
> > code"-like elements - designs in various free CAD programs - doesn't it?
> 
> CAD program is just a program suitable for drawing this type of line
> pictures, as GIMP is suitable for photo editing and Sodipodi for hand
> drawing. Are you going to call *.jpg or *.svg a source code?

No, but I might call layered .psd (or whatever the GIMP format is) source
code for a .png. It's far more useful in editing than the final,
flattened result is, which is why it's often kept - but often not
distributed. It's also rather larger.
> 
> CL<
> 
> > In which case a copyleft license is quite reasonable.
> > 
> > On Wed, Oct 12, 2005 at 03:58:16PM +0200, Karel Kulhavy wrote:
> > > Would anyone have any objections against if I relicenced Ronja from GPL
> > > (which is suitable for software and not documentation like Ronja is) to
> > > GFDL (under which for example Wikipedia is)?
> > > 
> > > CL<
> > -- 
> > Matthew J Toseland - toad at amphibian.dyndns.org
> > Freenet Project Official Codemonkey - http://freenetproject.org/
> > ICTHUS - Nothing is impossible. Our Boss says so.
> 
> 
> 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ronja mailing list
> > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja

-- 
Matthew J Toseland - toad at amphibian.dyndns.org
Freenet Project Official Codemonkey - http://freenetproject.org/
ICTHUS - Nothing is impossible. Our Boss says so.
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From ronja at hansmi.ch  Thu Oct 13 12:08:24 2005
From: ronja at hansmi.ch (Michael Hanselmann)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 13:08:24 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Jakub =?utf-8?B?SG9ya8O9ICh0?= =?utf-8?Q?he_perso?=
	=?utf-8?Q?n?= behind ronjashop.info) doesn't respond, PCBs not delivered
In-Reply-To: <434432A0.5090402@seznam.cz>
References: <20051005193651.GB26657@hansmi.ch> <434432A0.5090402@seznam.cz>
Message-ID: <20051013110824.GA6815@hansmi.ch>

Hello

> he is busy with school, but I am sure that he will contact you soon and 
> try to solve the problem.

I don't know what timespan you meant with "soon", but I think eight days
are enough to at least write a short e-mail. Therefore, I added a
warning wiki links to ronjashop.com in the Wiki.

http://wiki.twibright.com/index.php?title=GettingRonjaElectronics&diff=0&oldid=1000
http://wiki.twibright.com/index.php?title=GettingRonjaHardware&diff=0&oldid=1001

As soon as I got my money back or the PCBs, they can be removed.

Greets,
Michael

-- 
Gentoo Linux Developer using m0n0wall | http://hansmi.ch/
We are Microsoft.  Unix is irrelevant.  Openness is futile.  Prepare
to be assimilated.
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From toad at amphibian.dyndns.org  Thu Oct 13 12:11:07 2005
From: toad at amphibian.dyndns.org (Matthew Toseland)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 12:11:07 +0100
Subject: [Ronja] Relicensing Ronja from GPL to GFDL
In-Reply-To: <20051013105037.GA6115@amphibian.dyndns.org>
References: <20051012135816.GA23437@kestrel>
	<20051012163132.GA17244@amphibian.dyndns.org>
	<20051013100658.GA3403@kestrel>
	<20051013105037.GA6115@amphibian.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <20051013111106.GA7149@amphibian.dyndns.org>

In any case, does the GFDL permit free modification (as well as
redistribution) of the resulting .jpg's and .svg's? I was under the
impression that it didn't, despite being a GNU license... Some of the CC
licenses may be better? Some CC licenses definitely have issues... Have
you considered dual licensing, just to avoid any possible confusion? Say
GPL and one of the Creative Commons licenses?

On Thu, Oct 13, 2005 at 11:50:37AM +0100, Matthew Toseland wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 13, 2005 at 12:06:58PM +0200, Karel Kulhavy wrote:
> > On Wed, Oct 12, 2005 at 05:31:32PM +0100, Matthew Toseland wrote:
> > > I was under the impression that GFDL is not DFSG-free; does it permit
> > > free modification? There were some Debian issues with CC licenses
> > > recently, I think GFDL is also affected. Also, Ronja plainly has "source
> > > code"-like elements - designs in various free CAD programs - doesn't it?
> > 
> > CAD program is just a program suitable for drawing this type of line
> > pictures, as GIMP is suitable for photo editing and Sodipodi for hand
> > drawing. Are you going to call *.jpg or *.svg a source code?
> 
> No, but I might call layered .psd (or whatever the GIMP format is) source
> code for a .png. It's far more useful in editing than the final,
> flattened result is, which is why it's often kept - but often not
> distributed. It's also rather larger.
> > 
> > CL<
> > 
> > > In which case a copyleft license is quite reasonable.
> > > 
> > > On Wed, Oct 12, 2005 at 03:58:16PM +0200, Karel Kulhavy wrote:
> > > > Would anyone have any objections against if I relicenced Ronja from GPL
> > > > (which is suitable for software and not documentation like Ronja is) to
> > > > GFDL (under which for example Wikipedia is)?
> > > > 
> > > > CL<
> > > -- 
> > > Matthew J Toseland - toad at amphibian.dyndns.org
> > > Freenet Project Official Codemonkey - http://freenetproject.org/
> > > ICTHUS - Nothing is impossible. Our Boss says so.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Ronja mailing list
> > > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ronja mailing list
> > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 
> -- 
> Matthew J Toseland - toad at amphibian.dyndns.org
> Freenet Project Official Codemonkey - http://freenetproject.org/
> ICTHUS - Nothing is impossible. Our Boss says so.



> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


-- 
Matthew J Toseland - toad at amphibian.dyndns.org
Freenet Project Official Codemonkey - http://freenetproject.org/
ICTHUS - Nothing is impossible. Our Boss says so.
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From ronja at cobrik.net  Thu Oct 13 15:55:54 2005
From: ronja at cobrik.net (ronja@cobrik.net)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 16:55:54 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Anomalie s Twisterem
In-Reply-To: <20051011102355.GA9761@kestrel.twibright.com>
References: <1128037053.433c7abd6fd6a@mail.cobrik.net>
	<20051002192013.GA22340@kestrel.t-n-p.org>
	<1128300126.43407e5e9b2ee@mail.cobrik.net>
	<200510041336.15093.ladmanj@volny.cz>
	<1128455354.4342dcba74e66@mail.cobrik.net>
	<20051005135959.GA18730@kestrel>
	<1128897406.43499b7eb5669@mail.cobrik.net>
	<20051010134501.GB11844@kestrel>
	<1128978358.434ad7b640c1f@mail.cobrik.net>
	<20051011102355.GA9761@kestrel.twibright.com>
Message-ID: <1129215354.434e757a0f7cc@mail.cobrik.net>

Takze mam novej poznatek ... kdyz uz jsme o tom tady tak "vasnive" debatovali a
radili ste mi jak na to podelim se s vami o vyreseni meho problemu.

Tedy pote co jsem ustavicne trapil toho Twistera na ktereho sem mel podezreni ze
je spatnej (mel packetloss v nekterych sitovkach a switchich) sem uz byl natolik
zoufalej ze uz sem nevedel co vymenit a zlepsit tak sem postavil treti exemplar
v rade ... a vymenil ho za toho spatneho a ono ejhle ... situace se nezmenila a
byla takrka totzna jako pred tim ... zkousel sem zase provadet psi kusy a nic
dobre jel jen ten jeden a ten nove vyrobenej se choval stejne spatne jako ten
za ktereho sem ho zamenil ...

A kdyz uz sem byl uplne nejzoufalejsi a rikal sem si ze by musela byt mahoda jak
... abych vyrobil 2 stejne vadny Twistery ... a rozvinul sem uvahu ze co kdyz za
to ten mnou oznacenej Twister jako chybnej vlastne ani nemuze ... co kdyz ten o
kterym si myslim ze je v poradku mi vysila urcitym zpusobem ten signal
zprznenej a proto ten chudak na druhym konci neni schopnej ho prijmout ...

A ono opravdu ANO ... zatimco sem trapil toho chudacka na prijmu tak za to mohl
ten Twister kterej proti nemu ten signal vysilal nejspis nejak sprznene (tohle
je jeste predmetem meho dalsiho setreni - pokusim se s nim dostat na
osciloskop)  cili kdyz sem dal ten puvodne mnou oznacen za chybny a nove
vyrobeny proti sobe je po problemu a dokonce mi to jede i s 20m UTP svodem
vcelku s minimalnim packetlossem ...

Aneb jak se rika: Nektere veci nejsou tak jak na prvni pohled vypadaji a v tehle
oblasti to plati asik hned dvakrat ...

Diky vsem kdo mi odpovidali za pomoc a podporu ...

Milos

P.S. Jeste bych mel jeden dotazek sehnal sem skvelej zdroj 12V/1A ale je pulzne
spinanej (nema trafo ...) co si myslite o napajeni timto zdrojem Twistera ?
Mohla by byt ta pulzni regulace problem a delat to nejakej bordel nebo by to
mohlo byt OK ?

> On Mon, Oct 10, 2005 at 11:05:58PM +0200, ronja at cobrik.net wrote:
> > Tak sem omyl desky Twistera tim Isopropyl-alkoholem ... a tady jsou jeste
> fotky
> > plosnaku jednou (a ne ze me budete pomlouvat ... :-))))
> >
> > http://ronja.cobrik.net/twister_bottom_new1.jpg
> > http://ronja.cobrik.net/twister_bottom_new2.jpg
>
> I would say that couple of joints have cracks or irregular surface -
> take a soldering iron and remelt all ugly joints on the faulty
> Twister with the iron and soldering flux until it forms a nice regular
> clean cone. All the parts of the joint (the eyelet, the wire and the
> solder) have to heat up above melting temperature.
>
> Then try it again. If it doesn't help, try resoldering *all* joints
> (i. e. even those nice).
>
> I once fixed a nonworking board this way (but it wasn't Ronja and
> was soldered by someone else).
>
> If this doesn't help perform once again a check if some resistor or
> capacitor isn't wrong value or some chip soldered in the other way
> or incorrect type.
>
> CL<
>
> >
> > Milos
> >
> > P.S.: Tak asi zkusim ted vymenit ty AM26LSxx a prohrat kontakty ... a
> testnu to
> > znova ...
> >
> > > On Mon, Oct 10, 2005 at 12:36:46AM +0200, ronja at cobrik.net wrote:
> > > > Tak sem se konecne dostal ke cloveku s digitalnim fotakem ... sice
> fotky
> > > nejsou
> > > > nic extra ale byl sem rad ze mi to nafotil abych teda ted kdyztak mohl
> ten
> > > > silenej AM26LS32ACN vymenit nebo alespon mu projet pajkou kontakty
> jestli
> > > to
> > > > nepomuze ... a pak je asi pravda ze bych mohl umejt ten plosnak od toho
> > > tavidla
> > > > ...
> > > >
> > > > Takze ty fotky (doufam ze moc nepomluvite ale pajim jak umim :-)):
> > > >
> > > > TxA - http://ronja.cobrik.net/txa.jpg
> > > > RxA - http://ronja.cobrik.net/rxa.jpg
> > > > TxB - http://ronja.cobrik.net/txb.jpg
> > > > RxB - http://ronja.cobrik.net/rxb.jpg
> > > > Twister A top - http://ronja.cobrik.net/twa_top.jpg
> > > > Twister A bottom - http://ronja.cobrik.net/twa_bottom.jpg
> > > > Twister B top - http://ronja.cobrik.net/twb_top.jpg
> > > > Twister B bottom - http://ronja.cobrik.net/twb_bottom.jpg
> > >
> > > Hm sorry I can't see the joint properly can you please rinse the board
> > > in isopropyl alcohol to get rid of the rosin flux and take a sharper
> > > picture again?
> > >
> > > I think some of the points are soldered improperly but am not sure.
> > >
> > > CL<
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Ronja mailing list
> > > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ronja mailing list
> > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>





From clock at twibright.com  Thu Oct 13 16:11:39 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 17:11:39 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Relicensing Ronja from GPL to GFDL
In-Reply-To: <20051013111106.GA7149@amphibian.dyndns.org>
References: <20051012135816.GA23437@kestrel>
	<20051012163132.GA17244@amphibian.dyndns.org>
	<20051013100658.GA3403@kestrel>
	<20051013105037.GA6115@amphibian.dyndns.org>
	<20051013111106.GA7149@amphibian.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <20051013151139.GA28116@kestrel>

On Thu, Oct 13, 2005 at 12:11:07PM +0100, Matthew Toseland wrote:
> In any case, does the GFDL permit free modification (as well as
> redistribution) of the resulting .jpg's and .svg's? I was under the
> impression that it didn't, despite being a GNU license... Some of the CC

I think it doesn't - otherwise someone would do modifications in PCB,
didn't publish them, publish only jpgs and assert that he did the
modifications in the jpegs only.

> licenses may be better? Some CC licenses definitely have issues... Have
> you considered dual licensing, just to avoid any possible confusion? Say
> GPL and one of the Creative Commons licenses?

No

CL<
> 
> On Thu, Oct 13, 2005 at 11:50:37AM +0100, Matthew Toseland wrote:
> > On Thu, Oct 13, 2005 at 12:06:58PM +0200, Karel Kulhavy wrote:
> > > On Wed, Oct 12, 2005 at 05:31:32PM +0100, Matthew Toseland wrote:
> > > > I was under the impression that GFDL is not DFSG-free; does it permit
> > > > free modification? There were some Debian issues with CC licenses
> > > > recently, I think GFDL is also affected. Also, Ronja plainly has "source
> > > > code"-like elements - designs in various free CAD programs - doesn't it?
> > > 
> > > CAD program is just a program suitable for drawing this type of line
> > > pictures, as GIMP is suitable for photo editing and Sodipodi for hand
> > > drawing. Are you going to call *.jpg or *.svg a source code?
> > 
> > No, but I might call layered .psd (or whatever the GIMP format is) source
> > code for a .png. It's far more useful in editing than the final,
> > flattened result is, which is why it's often kept - but often not
> > distributed. It's also rather larger.
> > > 
> > > CL<
> > > 
> > > > In which case a copyleft license is quite reasonable.
> > > > 
> > > > On Wed, Oct 12, 2005 at 03:58:16PM +0200, Karel Kulhavy wrote:
> > > > > Would anyone have any objections against if I relicenced Ronja from GPL
> > > > > (which is suitable for software and not documentation like Ronja is) to
> > > > > GFDL (under which for example Wikipedia is)?
> > > > > 
> > > > > CL<
> > > > -- 
> > > > Matthew J Toseland - toad at amphibian.dyndns.org
> > > > Freenet Project Official Codemonkey - http://freenetproject.org/
> > > > ICTHUS - Nothing is impossible. Our Boss says so.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Ronja mailing list
> > > > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> > > 
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Ronja mailing list
> > > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> > 
> > -- 
> > Matthew J Toseland - toad at amphibian.dyndns.org
> > Freenet Project Official Codemonkey - http://freenetproject.org/
> > ICTHUS - Nothing is impossible. Our Boss says so.
> 
> 
> 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ronja mailing list
> > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 
> 
> -- 
> Matthew J Toseland - toad at amphibian.dyndns.org
> Freenet Project Official Codemonkey - http://freenetproject.org/
> ICTHUS - Nothing is impossible. Our Boss says so.



> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja



From clock at twibright.com  Thu Oct 13 16:14:35 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 17:14:35 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Anomalie s Twisterem
In-Reply-To: <1129215354.434e757a0f7cc@mail.cobrik.net>
References: <20051002192013.GA22340@kestrel.t-n-p.org>
	<1128300126.43407e5e9b2ee@mail.cobrik.net>
	<200510041336.15093.ladmanj@volny.cz>
	<1128455354.4342dcba74e66@mail.cobrik.net>
	<20051005135959.GA18730@kestrel>
	<1128897406.43499b7eb5669@mail.cobrik.net>
	<20051010134501.GB11844@kestrel>
	<1128978358.434ad7b640c1f@mail.cobrik.net>
	<20051011102355.GA9761@kestrel.twibright.com>
	<1129215354.434e757a0f7cc@mail.cobrik.net>
Message-ID: <20051013151435.GB28116@kestrel>

On Thu, Oct 13, 2005 at 04:55:54PM +0200, ronja at cobrik.net wrote:
> P.S. Jeste bych mel jeden dotazek sehnal sem skvelej zdroj 12V/1A ale je pulzne
> spinanej (nema trafo ...) co si myslite o napajeni timto zdrojem Twistera ?
> Mohla by byt ta pulzni regulace problem a delat to nejakej bordel nebo by to
> mohlo byt OK ?

I am using these power sources without problems.

CL<


From daniel.strnad at tiscali.cz  Thu Oct 13 21:52:15 2005
From: daniel.strnad at tiscali.cz (Daniel Strnad)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 20:52:15 -0000
Subject: [Ronja] Zvlastni rx
Message-ID: <opsylqxd1wn6qjls@daman>

Ahoj,
uz pres tyden se zabyvam zahadnym chovanim ronjiho rx. Funguje totiz jen  
kdyz asi 4cm nad nej dam ruku(do oblasti za 2. prepazkou), nesmim ji ale  
zas dat moc dovnitr, protoze to uz chyta logicky moc sumu. LEDky na  
twisteru blikaj pekne v rytmu pingu bez ohledu na to, jestli nad rx mam  
danou ruku nebo ne. Kdyz ale pustim floodping a chytne se to, tak muzu dat  
ruku pryc a jede to. Zkousel jsem vymenit mosfet, fotodiodu a vubec  
vsechno co je za 2. prepazkou. Peclive jsem promeril hodnoty vsech  
soucastek, zjistoval jestli nekde neni shortly kondik, meril  
testpointy(sedi vsechny), zkontroloval zapojeni dle schematu a  
zkontroloval kabelaz. Pak jsem jeste prohodil twistery jestli neni ten  
jeden vadnej ale furt je chyba na te same strane. Zkousel jsem i prohodit  
txka, jestli nahodou to co je proti tomu vadnymu rx neni spatny. Kdyz na  
nej nasadim vicko tak to taky nema vliv. Nema vliv ani to jestli to  
testuju na 2m(RSSI  neco kolem 100mV) nebo na 20cm(RSSI 3,5V).  Uz jsem z  
toho fakt zoufalej. Jo a jeste dodam ze to rx fungovalo do chvile nez jsem  
na nem ladil odpor R106 - ale zkousel jsem tam pak dat znovu ten puvodni a  
vysledek negativni :( Taky jsem uz prepajel vetsinu spoju. Zda se ze aby  
to rx chodilo potrebuje nejake minimalni mnozstvi sumu ci co. Kdybych mel  
aspon moznost pujcit si osciloskop, bylo by hned veseleji. Netusite v cem  
je problem?


From Seligr at sh.cvut.cz  Thu Oct 13 20:32:36 2005
From: Seligr at sh.cvut.cz (Seligr@sh.cvut.cz)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 21:32:36 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Zvlastni rx
In-Reply-To: <opsylqxd1wn6qjls@daman>
References: <opsylqxd1wn6qjls@daman>
Message-ID: <1129231956.434eb654a3656@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>

Jake kondenzatory mas na G2 MOSFETu proti zemi? Typ, hodnota, barva?
Je fotodioda zastrcena v krabici vcetne cipu?
Pripadne jeste zmer napeti na vyvodech c. 3,4,11,12 NE592 proti zemi.


> Ahoj,
> uz pres tyden se zabyvam zahadnym chovanim ronjiho rx. Funguje totiz jen  
> kdyz asi 4cm nad nej dam ruku(do oblasti za 2. prepazkou), nesmim ji ale  
> zas dat moc dovnitr, protoze to uz chyta logicky moc sumu. LEDky na  
> twisteru blikaj pekne v rytmu pingu bez ohledu na to, jestli nad rx mam  
> danou ruku nebo ne. Kdyz ale pustim floodping a chytne se to, tak muzu dat 
> 
> ruku pryc a jede to. Zkousel jsem vymenit mosfet, fotodiodu a vubec  
> vsechno co je za 2. prepazkou. Peclive jsem promeril hodnoty vsech  
> soucastek, zjistoval jestli nekde neni shortly kondik, meril  
> testpointy(sedi vsechny), zkontroloval zapojeni dle schematu a  
> zkontroloval kabelaz. Pak jsem jeste prohodil twistery jestli neni ten  
> jeden vadnej ale furt je chyba na te same strane. Zkousel jsem i prohodit  
> txka, jestli nahodou to co je proti tomu vadnymu rx neni spatny. Kdyz na  
> nej nasadim vicko tak to taky nema vliv. Nema vliv ani to jestli to  
> testuju na 2m(RSSI  neco kolem 100mV) nebo na 20cm(RSSI 3,5V).  Uz jsem z  
> toho fakt zoufalej. Jo a jeste dodam ze to rx fungovalo do chvile nez jsem 
> 
> na nem ladil odpor R106 - ale zkousel jsem tam pak dat znovu ten puvodni a 
> 
> vysledek negativni :( Taky jsem uz prepajel vetsinu spoju. Zda se ze aby  
> to rx chodilo potrebuje nejake minimalni mnozstvi sumu ci co. Kdybych mel  
> aspon moznost pujcit si osciloskop, bylo by hned veseleji. Netusite v cem  
> je problem?
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 





From daniel.strnad at tiscali.cz  Thu Oct 13 22:46:57 2005
From: daniel.strnad at tiscali.cz (Daniel Strnad)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 21:46:57 -0000
Subject: [Ronja] Zvlastni rx
In-Reply-To: <1129231956.434eb654a3656@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
References: <opsylqxd1wn6qjls@daman>
	<1129231956.434eb654a3656@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
Message-ID: <opsyltgjden6qjls@daman>

On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 21:32:36 +0200, <Seligr at sh.cvut.cz> wrote:

> Jake kondenzatory mas na G2 MOSFETu proti zemi? Typ, hodnota, barva?
> Je fotodioda zastrcena v krabici vcetne cipu?
> Pripadne jeste zmer napeti na vyvodech c. 3,4,11,12 NE592 proti zemi.
1n kondik u G2 jsem zkousel menil za nekolik ruznych typu - hnedy, modry,  
zluty, vzdy s co nejkratsima nozickama. Fotodioda je zastrcena dost, kouka  
jenom kousek.
NE592:
3: 4,97V
4: 5,08V
11: 5,09V
12: 4,97V


From Seligr at sh.cvut.cz  Thu Oct 13 21:19:31 2005
From: Seligr at sh.cvut.cz (Seligr@sh.cvut.cz)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 22:19:31 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Zvlastni rx
In-Reply-To: <opsyltgjden6qjls@daman>
References: <opsylqxd1wn6qjls@daman>
	<1129231956.434eb654a3656@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
	<opsyltgjden6qjls@daman>
Message-ID: <1129234771.434ec15344e29@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>

Cituji z emailu od Daniel Strnad <daniel.strnad at tiscali.cz>:

> On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 21:32:36 +0200, <Seligr at sh.cvut.cz> wrote:
> 
> > Jake kondenzatory mas na G2 MOSFETu proti zemi? Typ, hodnota, barva?
> > Je fotodioda zastrcena v krabici vcetne cipu?
> > Pripadne jeste zmer napeti na vyvodech c. 3,4,11,12 NE592 proti zemi.
> 1n kondik u G2 jsem zkousel menil za nekolik ruznych typu - hnedy, modry,  
> zluty, vzdy s co nejkratsima nozickama. Fotodioda je zastrcena dost, kouka 
> 
> jenom kousek.
> NE592:
> 3: 4,97V
> 4: 5,08V
> 11: 5,09V
> 12: 4,97V
> 

Jo jeste jsem zapomel dodat - merit bez signalu. Ale podle hodnot to vypada ze s
MOSFETem problem neni. Pokud kmita tak je mezi nozickami patrny rozdil napeti.

Jedine ze bys to nejak rozumne vyfotil.


From lburian at unhfree.net  Thu Oct 13 21:35:03 2005
From: lburian at unhfree.net (=?iso-8859-2?Q?Luk=E1=B9_Burian?=)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 22:35:03 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] chyba na webu
Message-ID: <mailman.10.1129235678.13231.ronja@lists.pointless.net>

Na str?nce http://ronja.twibright.com/twister/material_cz.php chyb? "A" u
ekvivalent? DS26LS32. (v anglick? verzi je to dob?e).

 

L.

 

 

 


Ekvivalenty (nejlep?? jsou ty prvn?)


74HC04

74HCT04 


74HC93

74HCT93 


74HC133

74HCT133 


74HC164

74HCT164 


74HC4040

74HCT4040 


DS26LS31

AM26LS31, AM26C31, DS26C31, QP26LS31, 26LS31 


DS26LS32

AM26LS32>A<, AM26C32, DS26C32, QP26LS32. Ne AM26LS32! 


2-pole_switch_gold_plated_6mm_hole

2 jumpery, nicm?n? k p?enastaven? z PC na switch bude nutn? od?roubovat v?ko
a p?i?roubovat ho zp?tky (zdlouhav? :( ). 


Krystalov? oscil?tor 16MHz DIL14

Krystalov? oscil?tor 16MHz DIL8 


LM7805

LM78M05, L78M05, uA78M05, MA7805, 7805 


10_turns_on_8mm

Ud?lejte z izolovan?ho dr?tu o pr??ezu 0.5mm^2...1mm^2. M??e b?t nahrazena
1uH tov?rn? d?lanou c?vkou. Nicm?n? mus? b?t jmenovit? dimenzovan? nejm?n?
na proud, kter? pou?it? nap?jec? zdroj d? v nejhor??m p??pad? do zkratu. 

 

------------- dal?? ??st ---------------
HTML p??loha byla odstran?na...
URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20051013/c7e0f3a2/attachment.html

From ronja at duje.net  Fri Oct 14 10:26:59 2005
From: ronja at duje.net (Ivo)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 11:26:59 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] SW pro Ronja + Wifi backup
In-Reply-To: <20051009011800.GC10505@localhost.localdomain>
References: <1128628628.434581942dec1@www.gybon.cz>	<20051009011154.GA10505@localhost.localdomain>
	<20051009011800.GC10505@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <434F79E3.8000605@duje.net>

How about driving Tx and Rx modules directly from some linux based 
wireless router with spare IO pins / ports? Has anyone tried to go into 
that direction?


From clock at twibright.com  Fri Oct 14 19:10:49 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 20:10:49 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Is your Ronja protected against lightning?
Message-ID: <20051014181049.GA32590@kestrel>

Is your Ronja properly earthed if installed on a roof?

This is what a lightning looks like from near:
http://205.243.100.155/photos/Lightning/Lightling_Kane_Quinnell.JPG
(sorry it often gives Service Unavailable but it's a copyrighted image
so I cannot mirror it without getting a permission)

Lightning can cause explosion in which pieces of steel and concrete fly
like grenade shards and remain stuck into walls. Definitely nothing you
want to have inside a building:
http://www.srh.noaa.gov/lch/severe/ltg/ltg11.jpg

And these are pictures of lightning damage:

http://www.pozary.cz/zpra_obrazky/clanky/c3608_detail.jpg
http://turfgrass.com/images/pic29.jpg
http://doug.mhost.com/images/aletschhorn/30_lightning_damage.jpeg
http://www.kountrylife.com/gallery/6743.jpg
http://www.weatherstock.com/L27.jpg
http://www.prazen.com/cori/van.html
http://www.thefargos.com/pictures/lightning/MVC-016F.JPG
http://www.thefargos.com/pictures/lightning/MVC-003F.JPG
http://www.srh.noaa.gov/lch/severe/ltg/ltg1.jpg
http://www.srh.noaa.gov/lch/severe/ltg/ltg2.jpg
http://www.srh.noaa.gov/lch/severe/ltg/ltg3.jpg
http://www.srh.noaa.gov/lch/severe/ltg/ltg4.jpg
http://www.srh.noaa.gov/lch/severe/ltg/ltg6.jpg
http://www.srh.noaa.gov/lch/severe/ltg/ltg8.jpg
http://www.srh.noaa.gov/lch/severe/ltg/ltg9.jpg
http://www.srh.noaa.gov/lch/severe/ltg/ltg10.jpg
http://www.srh.noaa.gov/lch/severe/ltg/ltg11.jpg
http://www.srh.noaa.gov/lch/severe/ltg/ltg12.jpg
http://www.alligator.org/edit/issues/97-sumr/970708/a01attic.jpg
http://www.pas.rochester.edu/~cline/ASK%20lightning%20strike/Figure%2010%20damage%20pictures.jpg
http://www.bbeam.com/img_travaux/38_funbeauraing-003.jpg
http://www.ananova.com/images/web/73314.jpg
http://www.hppr.org/images/MVC-002S.JPG
http://www.biblehelp.org/images/lightening%20damage.jpg
http://library.thinkquest.org/03oct/00758/en/disaster/lightning/lightning_tree2.jpg
http://www.lighthouse.cc/portsmouth/ironwork.jpg

CL<


From clock at twibright.com  Fri Oct 14 19:19:55 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 20:19:55 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Positive lightning bolts
Message-ID: <20051014181955.GA32703@kestrel>

Here are some electrical specifications of the strongest (positive)
lightning bolts:

300kA, from 500us to 1ms, 300C transferred charge.

http://plaza.ufl.edu/rakov/ICLP2000/positive1.16.pdf

CL<


From clock at twibright.com  Fri Oct 14 19:29:47 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 20:29:47 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Does a tall nearby lightning rod protect your Ronja?
Message-ID: <20051014182947.GA303@kestrel>

The short answer is: "no" ;-) :

http://science.nasa.gov/newhome/headlines/images/HumanVoltage/lightning_TowerMissourirev.jpg

CL<


From clock at twibright.com  Fri Oct 14 20:38:02 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 21:38:02 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] your mail
In-Reply-To: <000801c5d040$efe14750$1364000a@max>
References: <000801c5d040$efe14750$1364000a@max>
Message-ID: <20051014193802.GB3940@kestrel>

On Thu, Oct 13, 2005 at 11:56:16PM +0200, Max wrote:
> Ahoj mame nainstalovanou ronju zamereno RSSI pres 3 V mezi 2 PC s
> XPpro vse ok. ale mezi 2 routery s fedora core 3 to jede divne jako by
> nebyl na obou full dupl. ale podle linuxu je, poradis neco ? zkusili
> jsme i 2 typy sitovek 3com a edimaxy vysledek stejnej:( (kolisava
> rychlost nedosahujici 10 mbitu a soucasny ping se strasnym
> paketloosem) bez zateze je paketloos 0, zkousel jsem i switch Ovislink
> 2400R ale prijde mi ze sice prepne do 10mbit a i kdyz mu zakazu back
> fall na Half tak na twistr portu nesviti full divne jestli te neco
> napada - napis nebo jeste lip hod to na mailing list treba nekdo neco
> vi? cau MAX

If ping without load is 0%, then it is very probably one side not set to
full duplex.

Try setting both sides to half duplex or autonegotiation. If it runs
without packetloss with 2 simultaneous pings (total bandwidth is then
only 10Mbps), then the problem is definitely in software configuration.

You can run Ronja datalink in half duplex (just with throughput
reduced to half and increased latencies).

CL<


From clock at twibright.com  Fri Oct 14 21:34:14 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 22:34:14 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Zvlastni rx
In-Reply-To: <opsylqxd1wn6qjls@daman>
References: <opsylqxd1wn6qjls@daman>
Message-ID: <20051014203414.GA5050@kestrel>

On Thu, Oct 13, 2005 at 08:52:15PM -0000, Daniel Strnad wrote:
> Ahoj,
> uz pres tyden se zabyvam zahadnym chovanim ronjiho rx. Funguje totiz jen  
> kdyz asi 4cm nad nej dam ruku(do oblasti za 2. prepazkou), nesmim ji ale  
> zas dat moc dovnitr, protoze to uz chyta logicky moc sumu. LEDky na  
> twisteru blikaj pekne v rytmu pingu bez ohledu na to, jestli nad rx mam  
> danou ruku nebo ne. Kdyz ale pustim floodping a chytne se to, tak muzu dat  
> ruku pryc a jede to. Zkousel jsem vymenit mosfet, fotodiodu a vubec  
> vsechno co je za 2. prepazkou. Peclive jsem promeril hodnoty vsech  
> soucastek, zjistoval jestli nekde neni shortly kondik, meril  
> testpointy(sedi vsechny), zkontroloval zapojeni dle schematu a  
> zkontroloval kabelaz. Pak jsem jeste prohodil twistery jestli neni ten  
> jeden vadnej ale furt je chyba na te same strane. Zkousel jsem i prohodit  
> txka, jestli nahodou to co je proti tomu vadnymu rx neni spatny. Kdyz na  
> nej nasadim vicko tak to taky nema vliv. Nema vliv ani to jestli to  
> testuju na 2m(RSSI  neco kolem 100mV) nebo na 20cm(RSSI 3,5V).  Uz jsem z  
> toho fakt zoufalej. Jo a jeste dodam ze to rx fungovalo do chvile nez jsem  
> na nem ladil odpor R106 - ale zkousel jsem tam pak dat znovu ten puvodni a  
> vysledek negativni :( Taky jsem uz prepajel vetsinu spoju. Zda se ze aby  
> to rx chodilo potrebuje nejake minimalni mnozstvi sumu ci co. Kdybych mel  
> aspon moznost pujcit si osciloskop, bylo by hned veseleji. Netusite v cem  
> je problem?

R106 is the one in the drain of Q101 transistor?

Maybe you managed to kill the transistor somehow. Try replacing it and
trying again.

I plan to change the guide so that you first build without R106, then
measure current with milliamperemeter, and then select the resistor
for the first try without having to unsolder R106 at all. This should
minimize the risk of damaging the transistor.

CL<


From daniel.strnad at tiscali.cz  Sat Oct 15 11:40:10 2005
From: daniel.strnad at tiscali.cz (Daniel Strnad)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 10:40:10 -0000
Subject: [Ronja] Zvlastni rx
In-Reply-To: <20051014203414.GA5050@kestrel>
References: <opsylqxd1wn6qjls@daman> <20051014203414.GA5050@kestrel>
Message-ID: <opsyonw8yun6qjls@daman>

On Fri, 14 Oct 2005 22:34:14 +0200, Karel Kulhavy <clock at twibright.com>  
wrote:
> R106 is the one in the drain of Q101 transistor?
>
> Maybe you managed to kill the transistor somehow. Try replacing it and
> trying again.

Vzdyt pisu ze uz jsem ho vymenil.

>
> I plan to change the guide so that you first build without R106, then
> measure current with milliamperemeter, and then select the resistor
> for the first try without having to unsolder R106 at all. This should
> minimize the risk of damaging the transistor.
>
> CL<
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From Seligr at sh.cvut.cz  Sat Oct 15 13:39:18 2005
From: Seligr at sh.cvut.cz (Seligr@sh.cvut.cz)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 14:39:18 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Zvlastni rx
In-Reply-To: <opsyonw8yun6qjls@daman>
References: <opsylqxd1wn6qjls@daman> <20051014203414.GA5050@kestrel>
	<opsyonw8yun6qjls@daman>
Message-ID: <1129379958.4350f876b0cbb@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>

Chce to vyfotit. Tohle vypada na kmitani MOSFETu, ale podle tech napeti to je
OK. Nebo je nejaka zhovadilost v rozlozeni soucastek, nebo jestli tam mas takove
male leskle kondenzatory, tak se nejaky mohl pri pajeni rozlomit.

Petr

> On Fri, 14 Oct 2005 22:34:14 +0200, Karel Kulhavy <clock at twibright.com>  
> wrote:
> > R106 is the one in the drain of Q101 transistor?
> >
> > Maybe you managed to kill the transistor somehow. Try replacing it and
> > trying again.
> 
> Vzdyt pisu ze uz jsem ho vymenil.
> 
> >
> > I plan to change the guide so that you first build without R106, then
> > measure current with milliamperemeter, and then select the resistor
> > for the first try without having to unsolder R106 at all. This should
> > minimize the risk of damaging the transistor.
> >
> > CL<
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ronja mailing list
> > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 





From daniel.strnad at tiscali.cz  Sat Oct 15 15:48:58 2005
From: daniel.strnad at tiscali.cz (Daniel Strnad)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 14:48:58 -0000
Subject: [Ronja] Zvlastni rx
In-Reply-To: <1129379958.4350f876b0cbb@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
References: <opsylqxd1wn6qjls@daman> <20051014203414.GA5050@kestrel>
	<opsyonw8yun6qjls@daman>
	<1129379958.4350f876b0cbb@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
Message-ID: <opsyozfwa7n6qjls@daman>

On Sat, 15 Oct 2005 14:39:18 +0200, <Seligr at sh.cvut.cz> wrote:

> Chce to vyfotit. Tohle vypada na kmitani MOSFETu, ale podle tech napeti  
> to je
> OK. Nebo je nejaka zhovadilost v rozlozeni soucastek, nebo jestli tam  
> mas takove
> male leskle kondenzatory, tak se nejaky mohl pri pajeni rozlomit.
>
> Petr
Vyfotim urcite, ale az sezenu od nekoho fotak. Soucastky mam rozlozeny  
stejne u obou rx. Co se tyce tech kondiku tak to uz se me taky stalo ze  
prasknul a uvnitr bylo maly SMD :). Ale to jsem uz taky vizualne  
kontroloval a viditelnyho nic nebylo. Ted me jeste napada, ze predtim kdyz  
to jelo tak jsem to zkousel s jinou sitovkou(s kamosovym nb), tak jestli  
to neni tim - na jedny strane je rtl8139 a na druhy integrovana nForce2.


From clock at twibright.com  Sat Oct 15 19:55:04 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 20:55:04 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Zvlastni rx
In-Reply-To: <opsyozfwa7n6qjls@daman>
References: <opsylqxd1wn6qjls@daman> <20051014203414.GA5050@kestrel>
	<opsyonw8yun6qjls@daman>
	<1129379958.4350f876b0cbb@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
	<opsyozfwa7n6qjls@daman>
Message-ID: <20051015185504.GA26038@kestrel>

On Sat, Oct 15, 2005 at 02:48:58PM -0000, Daniel Strnad wrote:
> On Sat, 15 Oct 2005 14:39:18 +0200, <Seligr at sh.cvut.cz> wrote:
> 
> > Chce to vyfotit. Tohle vypada na kmitani MOSFETu, ale podle tech napeti  
> > to je
> > OK. Nebo je nejaka zhovadilost v rozlozeni soucastek, nebo jestli tam  
> > mas takove
> > male leskle kondenzatory, tak se nejaky mohl pri pajeni rozlomit.
> >
> > Petr
> Vyfotim urcite, ale az sezenu od nekoho fotak. Soucastky mam rozlozeny  
> stejne u obou rx. Co se tyce tech kondiku tak to uz se me taky stalo ze  
> prasknul a uvnitr bylo maly SMD :). Ale to jsem uz taky vizualne  
> kontroloval a viditelnyho nic nebylo. Ted me jeste napada, ze predtim kdyz  
> to jelo tak jsem to zkousel s jinou sitovkou(s kamosovym nb), tak jestli  
> to neni tim - na jedny strane je rtl8139 a na druhy integrovana nForce2.

nForce2 is not good. rtl8139 is much better. nForce is good for wire but
not for optical communication which is running at low SNR's.

CL<


From daniel.strnad at tiscali.cz  Sat Oct 15 22:02:42 2005
From: daniel.strnad at tiscali.cz (Daniel Strnad)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 21:02:42 -0000
Subject: [Ronja] Zvlastni rx
In-Reply-To: <20051015185504.GA26038@kestrel>
References: <opsylqxd1wn6qjls@daman> <20051014203414.GA5050@kestrel>
	<opsyonw8yun6qjls@daman>
	<1129379958.4350f876b0cbb@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
	<opsyozfwa7n6qjls@daman> <20051015185504.GA26038@kestrel>
Message-ID: <opsypgqspjn6qjls@daman>

On Sat, 15 Oct 2005 20:55:04 +0200, Karel Kulhavy <clock at twibright.com>  
wrote:

> nForce2 is not good. rtl8139 is much better. nForce is good for wire but
> not for optical communication which is running at low SNR's.
>
> CL<

Ale pakety to neprijima na te strane s realtekem. Takze jedine ze by ta  
nForce2 blbe vysilala. Zitra budu mit nejakou jinou, tak to zkusim.


From Seligr at sh.cvut.cz  Sat Oct 15 20:57:35 2005
From: Seligr at sh.cvut.cz (Seligr@sh.cvut.cz)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 21:57:35 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Zvlastni rx
In-Reply-To: <opsyozfwa7n6qjls@daman>
References: <opsylqxd1wn6qjls@daman> <20051014203414.GA5050@kestrel>
	<opsyonw8yun6qjls@daman>
	<1129379958.4350f876b0cbb@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
	<opsyozfwa7n6qjls@daman>
Message-ID: <1129406255.43515f2f6beb2@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>

No, jeste me napada zmerit RSSI bez signalu, kdyz tam tecou data a kdyz tam das
prst.

Cituji z emailu od Daniel Strnad <daniel.strnad at tiscali.cz>:

> On Sat, 15 Oct 2005 14:39:18 +0200, <Seligr at sh.cvut.cz> wrote:
> 
> > Chce to vyfotit. Tohle vypada na kmitani MOSFETu, ale podle tech napeti  
> > to je
> > OK. Nebo je nejaka zhovadilost v rozlozeni soucastek, nebo jestli tam  
> > mas takove
> > male leskle kondenzatory, tak se nejaky mohl pri pajeni rozlomit.
> >
> > Petr
> Vyfotim urcite, ale az sezenu od nekoho fotak. Soucastky mam rozlozeny  
> stejne u obou rx. Co se tyce tech kondiku tak to uz se me taky stalo ze  
> prasknul a uvnitr bylo maly SMD :). Ale to jsem uz taky vizualne  
> kontroloval a viditelnyho nic nebylo. Ted me jeste napada, ze predtim kdyz 
> 
> to jelo tak jsem to zkousel s jinou sitovkou(s kamosovym nb), tak jestli  
> to neni tim - na jedny strane je rtl8139 a na druhy integrovana nForce2.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 





From clock at twibright.com  Sat Oct 15 23:54:51 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 00:54:51 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Welded parallel console released
Message-ID: <20051015225451.GA32184@kestrel>

http://ronja.twibright.com/news.php

CL<


From arunlists at softhome.net  Sun Oct 16 09:35:24 2005
From: arunlists at softhome.net (Arun Mehta)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 08:35:24 +0000
Subject: [Ronja] wireless optical communications for $2?
In-Reply-To: <20051014193802.GB3940@kestrel>
References: <000801c5d040$efe14750$1364000a@max>
	<20051014193802.GB3940@kestrel>
Message-ID: <435210CC.2000504@softhome.net>

Hi everyone, I'm new to this list, so by way of introduction, I write 
software for persons with disabilities, also teach such persons how to 
write software themselves. I am also very interested in wireless rural 
communications, including community radio, WiFi community networks, and 
optical communications. At the Djursland wsfii, I talked about low cost 
wireless communications, as a result of which we started a mailing list, 
wirelessoptical at yahoogroups.com.

Since then, I have managed to find some students interested in this 
subject. They are not very good at optics, however, and are stuck trying 
to get the beam to land optimally on the photo-diode. When I discussed 
this with Karel at the London wsfii, he thought he might have some 
suggestions, and asked me to join this list so we could discuss it here.

The system we are working on is described at 
http://www.india-gii.org/wiki/index.php/Milp, which I copy here for your 
convenience.

Your thoughts and suggestions would be very welcome.

Arun
http://holisticit.com/arun.htm

The 2$ device consists of a mike, an integrated circuit ?chip?, a laser 
pointer, a battery, a button. Let us, for now, call it a milp. To use 
it, you must carry a FM radio receiver, which you probably already own, 
so that doesn?t count towards our budget. You are a farmer, and you have 
just broken your leg in the woods. It is late at night, and there is 
nobody within shouting distance. What do you do?

Your FM radio is tuned to your local chat station, no problem there. It 
is playing hit music, interspersed with kids chatting, asking for help 
with their homework. You just hold the mike of your milp to the radio, 
point the laser towards the canopy under the water tower and hit the 
button. The operator is thankfully not asleep. She sees your laser 
flashing, points a flashlight at you, so you know and everyone else 
around, that you have been spotted. The operator now redirects her 
tripod, points her camera at you, and zooms in, with your laser pointer 
in the cross-hairs. She then tightens the tripod in position and presses 
the trigger of the camera. Suddenly, you have that irritating 
high-pitched ?feedback? sound on the radio. This tells you, that you are 
on the air, and everyone in the village has been woken up, and can hear 
you.

You turn down your radio, point your mike at your face, and start 
speaking. Before you pass out, you hear reassuring words from your wife 
on the radio, who has used her milp, to tell you that help is on the way.

The milp does a very simple thing. It modulates the optical output of a 
laser pointer in some way, using the mike output as a modulating signal.

At some high point in the village, one which has line of sight with its 
customer base, we have the operator with her receiver. It consists of a 
camera with a zoom lens, with a photo-diode or equivalent at its focus. 
The electronic signal this produces is demodulated by a chip, and fed to 
a FM transmitter. This transmitter plays music, unless someone attracts 
the attention of the operator, who then points her camera at his 
flashing milp, thus bringing its proud owner on the air.

This combination of devices is nothing but a cordless microphone, which 
uses optics to bridge distance, instead of radio frequency waves. Why? 
Because you can focus light much better than you can radio waves, so 
your ?antenna? is smaller and cheaper, your power requirements lower. 
This region of the spectrum is unregulated around the world, so your 
device can be legally used anywhere without a license.

Why isn?t anyone using this already? Well, lots of wireless optical 
communication systems are in use, but not in numbers. Why not? In the 
West, because this device needs very sophisticated aiming hardware, for 
slight motion or breeze can throw the light beam off the receiver. Such 
hardware is expensive.

In developing countries, as I have pointed out, you can get a 
stereoscopic robot with fine mechanical control abilities quite cheap: 
we call it a human being.

What this system provides us, is a free audio chat channel, in which the 
entire village can participate. Your only running expenses are very 
little electricity, and operator salary, if you can?t find volunteers to 
do it.

Your capital cost is two dollars per villager for the milp, a common 
small FM transmitter and some optical and electronic hardware at the 
receiver, say $50 once for the entire village.

Communications today surely doesn?t come cheaper than that!




-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.12.1/136 - Release Date: 10/15/2005



From cd930 at centrum.cz  Sun Oct 16 10:30:35 2005
From: cd930 at centrum.cz (-=RYS=-)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 11:30:35 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Fotky
Message-ID: <200510161130.14030@centrum.cz>

Ahoj Karle, dorazili ti ty fotky?
Posilal jsem to na tu adresu jak si mi psal.
Posilal jsem tusim 5 mailu s obrazkama spoje v Zatci, neupraveno, original z DIGI fotaku.
Jestli uz je mas, tak te chci pozadat.....dej je k Zatecke lince jak je tam ten CS16.jpg .
Martin? -=RYS=-


------------- dal?? ??st ---------------
HTML p??loha byla odstran?na...
URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20051016/a8310e90/attachment.html

From clock at twibright.com  Sun Oct 16 12:32:48 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 13:32:48 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] wireless optical communications for $2?
In-Reply-To: <435210CC.2000504@softhome.net>
References: <000801c5d040$efe14750$1364000a@max>
	<20051014193802.GB3940@kestrel> <435210CC.2000504@softhome.net>
Message-ID: <20051016113248.GA2623@kestrel>

On Sun, Oct 16, 2005 at 08:35:24AM +0000, Arun Mehta wrote:
> Hi everyone, I'm new to this list, so by way of introduction, I write 
> software for persons with disabilities, also teach such persons how to 
> write software themselves. I am also very interested in wireless rural 
> communications, including community radio, WiFi community networks, and 
> optical communications. At the Djursland wsfii, I talked about low cost 
> wireless communications, as a result of which we started a mailing list, 
> wirelessoptical at yahoogroups.com.
> 
> Since then, I have managed to find some students interested in this 
> subject. They are not very good at optics, however, and are stuck trying 
> to get the beam to land optimally on the photo-diode. When I discussed 
> this with Karel at the London wsfii, he thought he might have some 
> suggestions, and asked me to join this list so we could discuss it here.
> 
> The system we are working on is described at 
> http://www.india-gii.org/wiki/index.php/Milp, which I copy here for your 
> convenience.

Laser pointer has a divergence of about 1mrad FWHM which means you can
tolerate 0.5mm offset at 1m distance.

That means you should have like 1-meter aluminium pipe with a good sight
at the ends, or optical crosshair riflescope. Or iron pipe, if you want
to be cheaper.  That could be quite efficient against wild animals - if
you meet some beast, first shine it the laser pointer into it's eye, and
if that doesn't scare it to run a mile away, hit it with the pipe ;-)

Considering the rate people are killing each other in third world in
wars, maybe optical riflescopes could be substantially cheaper there
than here.

For receiver I would use this circuit:
http://wiki.twibright.com/images/3/30/HobbsCircuit.gif
Chris Long says it's the most sensitive circuit on the planet and I
quite believe him because he is the record holder :)

And please use free software tools like those on Ronja so the result of
your development could be published as user controlled technology.

CL<
> 
> Your thoughts and suggestions would be very welcome.
> 
> Arun
> http://holisticit.com/arun.htm
> 
> The 2$ device consists of a mike, an integrated circuit ?chip?, a laser 
> pointer, a battery, a button. Let us, for now, call it a milp. To use 
> it, you must carry a FM radio receiver, which you probably already own, 
> so that doesn?t count towards our budget. You are a farmer, and you have 
> just broken your leg in the woods. It is late at night, and there is 
> nobody within shouting distance. What do you do?
> 
> Your FM radio is tuned to your local chat station, no problem there. It 
> is playing hit music, interspersed with kids chatting, asking for help 
> with their homework. You just hold the mike of your milp to the radio, 
> point the laser towards the canopy under the water tower and hit the 
> button. The operator is thankfully not asleep. She sees your laser 
> flashing, points a flashlight at you, so you know and everyone else 
> around, that you have been spotted. The operator now redirects her 
> tripod, points her camera at you, and zooms in, with your laser pointer 
> in the cross-hairs. She then tightens the tripod in position and presses 
> the trigger of the camera. Suddenly, you have that irritating 
> high-pitched ?feedback? sound on the radio. This tells you, that you are 
> on the air, and everyone in the village has been woken up, and can hear 
> you.
> 
> You turn down your radio, point your mike at your face, and start 
> speaking. Before you pass out, you hear reassuring words from your wife 
> on the radio, who has used her milp, to tell you that help is on the way.
> 
> The milp does a very simple thing. It modulates the optical output of a 
> laser pointer in some way, using the mike output as a modulating signal.
> 
> At some high point in the village, one which has line of sight with its 
> customer base, we have the operator with her receiver. It consists of a 
> camera with a zoom lens, with a photo-diode or equivalent at its focus. 
> The electronic signal this produces is demodulated by a chip, and fed to 
> a FM transmitter. This transmitter plays music, unless someone attracts 
> the attention of the operator, who then points her camera at his 
> flashing milp, thus bringing its proud owner on the air.
> 
> This combination of devices is nothing but a cordless microphone, which 
> uses optics to bridge distance, instead of radio frequency waves. Why? 
> Because you can focus light much better than you can radio waves, so 
> your ?antenna? is smaller and cheaper, your power requirements lower. 
> This region of the spectrum is unregulated around the world, so your 
> device can be legally used anywhere without a license.
> 
> Why isn?t anyone using this already? Well, lots of wireless optical 
> communication systems are in use, but not in numbers. Why not? In the 
> West, because this device needs very sophisticated aiming hardware, for 
> slight motion or breeze can throw the light beam off the receiver. Such 
> hardware is expensive.
> 
> In developing countries, as I have pointed out, you can get a 
> stereoscopic robot with fine mechanical control abilities quite cheap: 
> we call it a human being.
> 
> What this system provides us, is a free audio chat channel, in which the 
> entire village can participate. Your only running expenses are very 
> little electricity, and operator salary, if you can?t find volunteers to 
> do it.
> 
> Your capital cost is two dollars per villager for the milp, a common 
> small FM transmitter and some optical and electronic hardware at the 
> receiver, say $50 once for the entire village.
> 
> Communications today surely doesn?t come cheaper than that!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.12.1/136 - Release Date: 10/15/2005
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From clock at twibright.com  Sun Oct 16 14:32:58 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 15:32:58 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] GPL -> GFDL
Message-ID: <20051016133258.GA3208@kestrel>

I have changed the licence from GPL to GFDL.

What if I also labeled the images.twibright.com to be under GFDL?
Would anyone be against that? If yes, I can take his photos off.

CL<


From clock at twibright.com  Sun Oct 16 15:10:12 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 16:10:12 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Fotky
In-Reply-To: <200510161130.14030@centrum.cz>
References: <200510161130.14030@centrum.cz>
Message-ID: <20051016141012.GC3883@kestrel>

On Sun, Oct 16, 2005 at 11:30:35AM +0200, -=RYS=- wrote:
> Ahoj Karle, dorazili ti ty fotky?

Jo dorazily, diky, ja je tam nekdy uploadnu...

CL<
> Posilal jsem to na tu adresu jak si mi psal.
> Posilal jsem tusim 5 mailu s obrazkama spoje v Zatci, neupraveno, original z DIGI fotaku.
> Jestli uz je mas, tak te chci pozadat.....dej je k Zatecke lince jak je tam ten CS16.jpg .
> Martin? -=RYS=-
> 
> 

> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja



From daniel.strnad at tiscali.cz  Sun Oct 16 20:46:03 2005
From: daniel.strnad at tiscali.cz (Daniel Strnad)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 19:46:03 -0000
Subject: [Ronja] Zvlastni rx - vyreseno
In-Reply-To: <opsylqxd1wn6qjls@daman>
References: <opsylqxd1wn6qjls@daman>
Message-ID: <opsyq7u1k4n6qjls@daman>

tak uz to chodi :) Chyba byla v ne zrovna dobre zvolene NIC - integr.  
nForce2 nejak blbe vysilala pakety. Dekuji vsem za reakce!

On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 20:52:15 -0000, Daniel Strnad  
<daniel.strnad at tiscali.cz> wrote:

> Ahoj,
> uz pres tyden se zabyvam zahadnym chovanim ronjiho rx. Funguje totiz jen
> kdyz asi 4cm nad nej dam ruku(do oblasti za 2. prepazkou), nesmim ji ale
> zas dat moc dovnitr, protoze to uz chyta logicky moc sumu. LEDky na
> twisteru blikaj pekne v rytmu pingu bez ohledu na to, jestli nad rx mam
> danou ruku nebo ne. Kdyz ale pustim floodping a chytne se to, tak muzu  
> dat
> ruku pryc a jede to. Zkousel jsem vymenit mosfet, fotodiodu a vubec
> vsechno co je za 2. prepazkou. Peclive jsem promeril hodnoty vsech
> soucastek, zjistoval jestli nekde neni shortly kondik, meril
> testpointy(sedi vsechny), zkontroloval zapojeni dle schematu a
> zkontroloval kabelaz. Pak jsem jeste prohodil twistery jestli neni ten
> jeden vadnej ale furt je chyba na te same strane. Zkousel jsem i prohodit
> txka, jestli nahodou to co je proti tomu vadnymu rx neni spatny. Kdyz na
> nej nasadim vicko tak to taky nema vliv. Nema vliv ani to jestli to
> testuju na 2m(RSSI  neco kolem 100mV) nebo na 20cm(RSSI 3,5V).  Uz jsem z
> toho fakt zoufalej. Jo a jeste dodam ze to rx fungovalo do chvile nez  
> jsem
> na nem ladil odpor R106 - ale zkousel jsem tam pak dat znovu ten puvodni  
> a
> vysledek negativni :( Taky jsem uz prepajel vetsinu spoju. Zda se ze aby
> to rx chodilo potrebuje nejake minimalni mnozstvi sumu ci co. Kdybych mel
> aspon moznost pujcit si osciloskop, bylo by hned veseleji. Netusite v cem
> je problem?
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja



-- 
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/


From pavkriz at gybon.cz  Sun Oct 16 20:28:14 2005
From: pavkriz at gybon.cz (Pavel Kriz)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 21:28:14 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] SW pro Ronja + Wifi backup
In-Reply-To: <001801c5cac0$4f9036b0$0103450a@thechosen>
References: <1128628628.434581942dec1@www.gybon.cz>
	<001801c5cac0$4f9036b0$0103450a@thechosen>
Message-ID: <4352A9CE.90809@gybon.cz>

No samozrejme zmenit cokoliv v zebre online neni problem. Zasadni veci k 
vyreseni jsou tyto:

1) jak "vypnout" spoj v zebre (OSPF)

zatim tedy vim dve reseni

a) zmenit cost linku

vyhody:
preroutuje rychle na druhy link

nevyhody:
resi pouze jeden smer (odchozi z daneho mista), monitor by musel bud byt 
schopen prekonfigurovat i vzdalenou zebru (coz se uz nemusi skrz 
nekvalitni link podarit), nebo by musel bezet na obou koncich spoje (2 
instance) coz bohuzel pridava dalsi "stupen volnosti a 
nedeterministicnost" (ale obecne neni duvod aby to prepinani nebylo 
zcela symetricke, pokud je na routrech vypnut rp_filter)

b) prepnout interface do stavu "passive interface"

vyhody:
staci udelat na jedne strane spoje (bezi jen jedna instance monitoru, 
snadne ladeni, slusna determinicnost)

nevyhody:
preroutuje pomalu (k prepnuti dojde presne po uplynuti dead-intervalu 
ktery zas neni radno nastavovat uplne maly, protoze zebra je dive zvire 
a je lepsi tam mit jiste veci "naddimenzovane")

2) jak rychle merit stav spoje

nerad delam polovicata reseni a z vysledku mereni vyplyva ze prechod 
mezi stavy 0%PL a 100%PL muze vypadat temer jakkoliv a trvat ruznou 
dobu; rad bych se dobral k vysledku kdy uzivatel pouzivajici treba ssh 
skr link temer nepozna moment odstaveni ronja-spoje a prepnuti na zalohu.
Z toho vyplyva nutnost merit pomerne casto (odhadem kazdych 5 sekund?) a 
spolehlive (tedy cisco nebo flood ping) stav spoje.

Otazka tedy zni, existuje nejaka c-ckova knihovna implementujici 
kvalitne ping pouzitelny pro tyto ucely?

Predem diky za dalsi podnety.

English summary:
1) How to switch off the OSPF link
   a) increse cost online
       + fast
       - need update two OSPF routers or run two monitor instances
         (on each router)
   b) switch to passive interface online
       + only one instance of monitor
       - slow (at least "dead-interval")
   c) more solutions? suggest...
2) How to measure link quality?
   Suggest usable ping (flood, cisco) c-library...?

Pavel
HKFree.org

Michal Malusek wrote:
> ja driv nez sme nasadili ospf a zebru mel tenhle vlastni skriptik
> 
> two=10.69.111.2
> ping $two -f -c 100 -A | grep "loss" | awk '{
>     #if (substr($6, 0, index($6, "%")) > 25) {
>     if ($4 < 75) {
>         system("/root/switch-to-wifi");
>     } else {
>         system("/root/switch-to-ronja");
>     };
> }'
> 
> switch-to-wifi a ronja pak prehodili routovani
> 
> treba
> ip route change default via 10.69.111.1
> 
> kdyz se to pak nakronuje na obou routerech co 5 minut tak to funguje velmi
> pekne. mnohem lepe nez ospf ktere to fakr routuje doku projde hello packet
> :/
> 
> pokud by si tim zmenil online cenu spoje v ospf tak preroutuje ospf na jinou
> trasu, ze. kdyz se ti to povede dotahnout tak by to bylo super :) do toho
> skriptu muzes dat i histerezi. ale mozna to je zbytecne.
> 
> Glo
> 


From clock at twibright.com  Mon Oct 17 09:46:40 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 10:46:40 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] RX interference
Message-ID: <20051017084640.GA23716@kestrel>

I have yesterday hooked up the RX +12V to oscilloscope and found out
that it radiates 10-15mVpp of the packet along the line. When the output
of the driver stage is disconnected from the cable, this doesn't
disappear, but drops to 5-10mVpp.

This is a bug and will have to be fixed.

CL<


From clock at twibright.com  Mon Oct 17 09:49:03 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 10:49:03 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Zvlastni rx - vyreseno
In-Reply-To: <opsyq7u1k4n6qjls@daman>
References: <opsylqxd1wn6qjls@daman> <opsyq7u1k4n6qjls@daman>
Message-ID: <20051017084903.GB23716@kestrel>

On Sun, Oct 16, 2005 at 07:46:03PM -0000, Daniel Strnad wrote:
> tak uz to chodi :) Chyba byla v ne zrovna dobre zvolene NIC - integr.  
> nForce2 nejak blbe vysilala pakety. Dekuji vsem za reakce!

I tried this NIC and worked, but with some packetloss. I used rtl8139
instead. Probably the onboard nic is cheap and doesn't have robust
PLL which is necessary for FSO and good wired Ethernet performance.

CL<
> 
> On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 20:52:15 -0000, Daniel Strnad  
> <daniel.strnad at tiscali.cz> wrote:
> 
> > Ahoj,
> > uz pres tyden se zabyvam zahadnym chovanim ronjiho rx. Funguje totiz jen
> > kdyz asi 4cm nad nej dam ruku(do oblasti za 2. prepazkou), nesmim ji ale
> > zas dat moc dovnitr, protoze to uz chyta logicky moc sumu. LEDky na
> > twisteru blikaj pekne v rytmu pingu bez ohledu na to, jestli nad rx mam
> > danou ruku nebo ne. Kdyz ale pustim floodping a chytne se to, tak muzu  
> > dat
> > ruku pryc a jede to. Zkousel jsem vymenit mosfet, fotodiodu a vubec
> > vsechno co je za 2. prepazkou. Peclive jsem promeril hodnoty vsech
> > soucastek, zjistoval jestli nekde neni shortly kondik, meril
> > testpointy(sedi vsechny), zkontroloval zapojeni dle schematu a
> > zkontroloval kabelaz. Pak jsem jeste prohodil twistery jestli neni ten
> > jeden vadnej ale furt je chyba na te same strane. Zkousel jsem i prohodit
> > txka, jestli nahodou to co je proti tomu vadnymu rx neni spatny. Kdyz na
> > nej nasadim vicko tak to taky nema vliv. Nema vliv ani to jestli to
> > testuju na 2m(RSSI  neco kolem 100mV) nebo na 20cm(RSSI 3,5V).  Uz jsem z
> > toho fakt zoufalej. Jo a jeste dodam ze to rx fungovalo do chvile nez  
> > jsem
> > na nem ladil odpor R106 - ale zkousel jsem tam pak dat znovu ten puvodni  
> > a
> > vysledek negativni :( Taky jsem uz prepajel vetsinu spoju. Zda se ze aby
> > to rx chodilo potrebuje nejake minimalni mnozstvi sumu ci co. Kdybych mel
> > aspon moznost pujcit si osciloskop, bylo by hned veseleji. Netusite v cem
> > je problem?
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ronja mailing list
> > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From Seligr at sh.cvut.cz  Mon Oct 17 16:48:20 2005
From: Seligr at sh.cvut.cz (Seligr@sh.cvut.cz)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 17:48:20 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Zvlastni rx - vyreseno
In-Reply-To: <20051017084903.GB23716@kestrel>
References: <opsylqxd1wn6qjls@daman> <opsyq7u1k4n6qjls@daman>
	<20051017084903.GB23716@kestrel>
Message-ID: <1129564100.4353c7c4c5a75@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>

Vypada to ze nForce2 za to nemuze. Vinikem podle vseho je cip RTL8201 ktery je
na deskach s nForcem pouzivan jako integrovana sitova karta. Jeste jsem nevidel
ze by tam bylo neco jineho.

Petr

Cituji z emailu od Karel Kulhavy <clock at twibright.com>:

> On Sun, Oct 16, 2005 at 07:46:03PM -0000, Daniel Strnad wrote:
> > tak uz to chodi :) Chyba byla v ne zrovna dobre zvolene NIC - integr.  
> > nForce2 nejak blbe vysilala pakety. Dekuji vsem za reakce!
> 
> I tried this NIC and worked, but with some packetloss. I used rtl8139
> instead. Probably the onboard nic is cheap and doesn't have robust
> PLL which is necessary for FSO and good wired Ethernet performance.
> 
> CL<
> > 
> > On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 20:52:15 -0000, Daniel Strnad  
> > <daniel.strnad at tiscali.cz> wrote:
> > 
> > > Ahoj,
> > > uz pres tyden se zabyvam zahadnym chovanim ronjiho rx. Funguje totiz
> jen
> > > kdyz asi 4cm nad nej dam ruku(do oblasti za 2. prepazkou), nesmim ji
> ale
> > > zas dat moc dovnitr, protoze to uz chyta logicky moc sumu. LEDky na
> > > twisteru blikaj pekne v rytmu pingu bez ohledu na to, jestli nad rx mam
> > > danou ruku nebo ne. Kdyz ale pustim floodping a chytne se to, tak muzu 
> 
> > > dat
> > > ruku pryc a jede to. Zkousel jsem vymenit mosfet, fotodiodu a vubec
> > > vsechno co je za 2. prepazkou. Peclive jsem promeril hodnoty vsech
> > > soucastek, zjistoval jestli nekde neni shortly kondik, meril
> > > testpointy(sedi vsechny), zkontroloval zapojeni dle schematu a
> > > zkontroloval kabelaz. Pak jsem jeste prohodil twistery jestli neni ten
> > > jeden vadnej ale furt je chyba na te same strane. Zkousel jsem i
> prohodit
> > > txka, jestli nahodou to co je proti tomu vadnymu rx neni spatny. Kdyz
> na
> > > nej nasadim vicko tak to taky nema vliv. Nema vliv ani to jestli to
> > > testuju na 2m(RSSI  neco kolem 100mV) nebo na 20cm(RSSI 3,5V).  Uz jsem
> z
> > > toho fakt zoufalej. Jo a jeste dodam ze to rx fungovalo do chvile nez  
> > > jsem
> > > na nem ladil odpor R106 - ale zkousel jsem tam pak dat znovu ten puvodni 
> 
> > > a
> > > vysledek negativni :( Taky jsem uz prepajel vetsinu spoju. Zda se ze
> aby
> > > to rx chodilo potrebuje nejake minimalni mnozstvi sumu ci co. Kdybych
> mel
> > > aspon moznost pujcit si osciloskop, bylo by hned veseleji. Netusite v
> cem
> > > je problem?
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Ronja mailing list
> > > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ronja mailing list
> > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 





From petr.cipis at tiscali.cz  Mon Oct 17 17:52:16 2005
From: petr.cipis at tiscali.cz (Cipis)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 18:52:16 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Zvlastni rx - vyreseno
References: <opsylqxd1wn6qjls@daman>
	<opsyq7u1k4n6qjls@daman><20051017084903.GB23716@kestrel>
	<1129564100.4353c7c4c5a75@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
Message-ID: <001301c5d33b$21b0e720$4d46a8c0@cipis.net>

muhehe, tak to zapomente na pripojeni do bezdratu WL5460AP a podobne
(alfa303)
ty maji totiz ten stejny cip, dokonce dvakrat (pro kazdy ethernet)

Cipis


----- Original Message -----
From: <Seligr at sh.cvut.cz>
To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 5:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Ronja] Zvlastni rx - vyreseno


> Vypada to ze nForce2 za to nemuze. Vinikem podle vseho je cip RTL8201
ktery je
> na deskach s nForcem pouzivan jako integrovana sitova karta. Jeste jsem
nevidel
> ze by tam bylo neco jineho.
>
> Petr
>
> Cituji z emailu od Karel Kulhavy <clock at twibright.com>:
>
> > On Sun, Oct 16, 2005 at 07:46:03PM -0000, Daniel Strnad wrote:
> > > tak uz to chodi :) Chyba byla v ne zrovna dobre zvolene NIC - integr.
> > > nForce2 nejak blbe vysilala pakety. Dekuji vsem za reakce!
> >
> > I tried this NIC and worked, but with some packetloss. I used rtl8139
> > instead. Probably the onboard nic is cheap and doesn't have robust
> > PLL which is necessary for FSO and good wired Ethernet performance.
> >
> > CL<
> > >
> > > On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 20:52:15 -0000, Daniel Strnad
> > > <daniel.strnad at tiscali.cz> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Ahoj,
> > > > uz pres tyden se zabyvam zahadnym chovanim ronjiho rx. Funguje totiz
> > jen
> > > > kdyz asi 4cm nad nej dam ruku(do oblasti za 2. prepazkou), nesmim ji
> > ale
> > > > zas dat moc dovnitr, protoze to uz chyta logicky moc sumu. LEDky na
> > > > twisteru blikaj pekne v rytmu pingu bez ohledu na to, jestli nad rx
mam
> > > > danou ruku nebo ne. Kdyz ale pustim floodping a chytne se to, tak
muzu
> >
> > > > dat
> > > > ruku pryc a jede to. Zkousel jsem vymenit mosfet, fotodiodu a vubec
> > > > vsechno co je za 2. prepazkou. Peclive jsem promeril hodnoty vsech
> > > > soucastek, zjistoval jestli nekde neni shortly kondik, meril
> > > > testpointy(sedi vsechny), zkontroloval zapojeni dle schematu a
> > > > zkontroloval kabelaz. Pak jsem jeste prohodil twistery jestli neni
ten
> > > > jeden vadnej ale furt je chyba na te same strane. Zkousel jsem i
> > prohodit
> > > > txka, jestli nahodou to co je proti tomu vadnymu rx neni spatny.
Kdyz
> > na
> > > > nej nasadim vicko tak to taky nema vliv. Nema vliv ani to jestli to
> > > > testuju na 2m(RSSI  neco kolem 100mV) nebo na 20cm(RSSI 3,5V).  Uz
jsem
> > z
> > > > toho fakt zoufalej. Jo a jeste dodam ze to rx fungovalo do chvile
nez
> > > > jsem
> > > > na nem ladil odpor R106 - ale zkousel jsem tam pak dat znovu ten
puvodni
> >
> > > > a
> > > > vysledek negativni :( Taky jsem uz prepajel vetsinu spoju. Zda se ze
> > aby
> > > > to rx chodilo potrebuje nejake minimalni mnozstvi sumu ci co.
Kdybych
> > mel
> > > > aspon moznost pujcit si osciloskop, bylo by hned veseleji. Netusite
v
> > cem
> > > > je problem?
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Ronja mailing list
> > > > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Ronja mailing list
> > > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ronja mailing list
> > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> >
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja



From m.malusek at seznam.cz  Mon Oct 17 17:54:24 2005
From: m.malusek at seznam.cz (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Michal_Malusek?=)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 18:54:24 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] SW pro Ronja + Wifi backup
References: <1128628628.434581942dec1@www.gybon.cz>
	<001801c5cac0$4f9036b0$0103450a@thechosen>
	<4352A9CE.90809@gybon.cz>
Message-ID: <003801c5d33b$6e3f71b0$0103450a@thechosen>

ja na sadil moznost zmeny costu, a to na kazdem routeru zvlast.

zatim s emi to chva velmi dobre. cost zvysuji s packetlossem tak nejak
linearne. a zatim se to osvedcilo.

shozeni if neni dobre reseni protoze ip z rozsahu kde shodis if pingnes
prave kvuli vyplemu rp filtru. kdezto kdyz zvisis cenu budes pingat vzdy
pres lokalni rozhrani a tudis se ti casem zmeni i druha strana, kdyz si tam
nacronujes stejnej script nebo prog. shodit if uz vubec neni dobre kvuli
stabylite zebry, kolikrat s emi stalo ze vytuhla. zmena costu zatim
nezpusobila za nekolik dni zadnou pohromu. zadny nedeterminismus sem
nezaznamenal. ustali se to vzdy v nejlepsi konfiguraci.

Glo


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Pavel Kriz" <pavkriz at gybon.cz>
To: "Michal Malusek" <m.malusek at seznam.cz>; "Twibright Ronja"
<ronja at lists.pointless.net>
Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 9:28 PM
Subject: Re: [Ronja] SW pro Ronja + Wifi backup


> No samozrejme zmenit cokoliv v zebre online neni problem. Zasadni veci k
> vyreseni jsou tyto:
>
> 1) jak "vypnout" spoj v zebre (OSPF)
>
> zatim tedy vim dve reseni
>
> a) zmenit cost linku
>
> vyhody:
> preroutuje rychle na druhy link
>
> nevyhody:
> resi pouze jeden smer (odchozi z daneho mista), monitor by musel bud byt
> schopen prekonfigurovat i vzdalenou zebru (coz se uz nemusi skrz
> nekvalitni link podarit), nebo by musel bezet na obou koncich spoje (2
> instance) coz bohuzel pridava dalsi "stupen volnosti a
> nedeterministicnost" (ale obecne neni duvod aby to prepinani nebylo
> zcela symetricke, pokud je na routrech vypnut rp_filter)
>
> b) prepnout interface do stavu "passive interface"
>
> vyhody:
> staci udelat na jedne strane spoje (bezi jen jedna instance monitoru,
> snadne ladeni, slusna determinicnost)
>
> nevyhody:
> preroutuje pomalu (k prepnuti dojde presne po uplynuti dead-intervalu
> ktery zas neni radno nastavovat uplne maly, protoze zebra je dive zvire
> a je lepsi tam mit jiste veci "naddimenzovane")
>
> 2) jak rychle merit stav spoje
>
> nerad delam polovicata reseni a z vysledku mereni vyplyva ze prechod
> mezi stavy 0%PL a 100%PL muze vypadat temer jakkoliv a trvat ruznou
> dobu; rad bych se dobral k vysledku kdy uzivatel pouzivajici treba ssh
> skr link temer nepozna moment odstaveni ronja-spoje a prepnuti na zalohu.
> Z toho vyplyva nutnost merit pomerne casto (odhadem kazdych 5 sekund?) a
> spolehlive (tedy cisco nebo flood ping) stav spoje.
>
> Otazka tedy zni, existuje nejaka c-ckova knihovna implementujici
> kvalitne ping pouzitelny pro tyto ucely?
>
> Predem diky za dalsi podnety.
>
> English summary:
> 1) How to switch off the OSPF link
>    a) increse cost online
>        + fast
>        - need update two OSPF routers or run two monitor instances
>          (on each router)
>    b) switch to passive interface online
>        + only one instance of monitor
>        - slow (at least "dead-interval")
>    c) more solutions? suggest...
> 2) How to measure link quality?
>    Suggest usable ping (flood, cisco) c-library...?
>
> Pavel
> HKFree.org
>
> Michal Malusek wrote:
> > ja driv nez sme nasadili ospf a zebru mel tenhle vlastni skriptik
> >
> > two=10.69.111.2
> > ping $two -f -c 100 -A | grep "loss" | awk '{
> >     #if (substr($6, 0, index($6, "%")) > 25) {
> >     if ($4 < 75) {
> >         system("/root/switch-to-wifi");
> >     } else {
> >         system("/root/switch-to-ronja");
> >     };
> > }'
> >
> > switch-to-wifi a ronja pak prehodili routovani
> >
> > treba
> > ip route change default via 10.69.111.1
> >
> > kdyz se to pak nakronuje na obou routerech co 5 minut tak to funguje
velmi
> > pekne. mnohem lepe nez ospf ktere to fakr routuje doku projde hello
packet
> > :/
> >
> > pokud by si tim zmenil online cenu spoje v ospf tak preroutuje ospf na
jinou
> > trasu, ze. kdyz se ti to povede dotahnout tak by to bylo super :) do
toho
> > skriptu muzes dat i histerezi. ale mozna to je zbytecne.
> >
> > Glo
> >
>



From pavkriz at gybon.cz  Mon Oct 17 18:08:05 2005
From: pavkriz at gybon.cz (Pavel Kriz)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 19:08:05 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] SW pro Ronja + Wifi backup
In-Reply-To: <003801c5d33b$6e3f71b0$0103450a@thechosen>
References: <1128628628.434581942dec1@www.gybon.cz>	<001801c5cac0$4f9036b0$0103450a@thechosen>	<4352A9CE.90809@gybon.cz>
	<003801c5d33b$6e3f71b0$0103450a@thechosen>
Message-ID: <4353DA75.2000905@gybon.cz>

ok, diky za zkusenosti ze to ma smysl.

jinak jsme si asi trochu nerozumeli, ja tu za celou dobu vubec nezminil 
moznost shodit interface protoze to samozrejme neni dobre reseni, zminil 
jsem tu jine dve moznosti:
- zvysit cost
- prenout if do "passive interface" coz je terminus-technicus v 
konfiguraci OSPF routru (zebry) a rozhodne to neznamena shozeni ("down") 
interfacu. anglicky vyklad je tento:
Suppress/unsuppress OSPF packets from being sent or received over the 
specified interface.

dal muzu pozadat o vysvetleni, jaky ma mysl linearne zvysovat cost podle 
stavu linku (PL) ? jedinne co by snad mohlo davat smysl by byla situace 
kdy je topologie slozitejsi a zalozni spoj(e) neni primo "rovnobezny" s 
ronja-spojem, ale jinak smysl nechapu, prece stejne ten OSPF router 
prepne na zalohu proste v momente kdy cost ronji prevysi cost zalohy, 
tak proc rovnou nemenite cost jen dvoustavove?

Pavel
HKFree.org

Michal Malusek wrote:
> ja na sadil moznost zmeny costu, a to na kazdem routeru zvlast.
> 
> zatim s emi to chva velmi dobre. cost zvysuji s packetlossem tak nejak
> linearne. a zatim se to osvedcilo.
> 
> shozeni if neni dobre reseni protoze ip z rozsahu kde shodis if pingnes
> prave kvuli vyplemu rp filtru. kdezto kdyz zvisis cenu budes pingat vzdy
> pres lokalni rozhrani a tudis se ti casem zmeni i druha strana, kdyz si tam
> nacronujes stejnej script nebo prog. shodit if uz vubec neni dobre kvuli
> stabylite zebry, kolikrat s emi stalo ze vytuhla. zmena costu zatim
> nezpusobila za nekolik dni zadnou pohromu. zadny nedeterminismus sem
> nezaznamenal. ustali se to vzdy v nejlepsi konfiguraci.
> 
> Glo
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Pavel Kriz" <pavkriz at gybon.cz>
> To: "Michal Malusek" <m.malusek at seznam.cz>; "Twibright Ronja"
> <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
> Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 9:28 PM
> Subject: Re: [Ronja] SW pro Ronja + Wifi backup
> 
> 
> 
>>No samozrejme zmenit cokoliv v zebre online neni problem. Zasadni veci k
>>vyreseni jsou tyto:
>>
>>1) jak "vypnout" spoj v zebre (OSPF)
>>
>>zatim tedy vim dve reseni
>>
>>a) zmenit cost linku
>>
>>vyhody:
>>preroutuje rychle na druhy link
>>
>>nevyhody:
>>resi pouze jeden smer (odchozi z daneho mista), monitor by musel bud byt
>>schopen prekonfigurovat i vzdalenou zebru (coz se uz nemusi skrz
>>nekvalitni link podarit), nebo by musel bezet na obou koncich spoje (2
>>instance) coz bohuzel pridava dalsi "stupen volnosti a
>>nedeterministicnost" (ale obecne neni duvod aby to prepinani nebylo
>>zcela symetricke, pokud je na routrech vypnut rp_filter)
>>
>>b) prepnout interface do stavu "passive interface"
>>
>>vyhody:
>>staci udelat na jedne strane spoje (bezi jen jedna instance monitoru,
>>snadne ladeni, slusna determinicnost)
>>
>>nevyhody:
>>preroutuje pomalu (k prepnuti dojde presne po uplynuti dead-intervalu
>>ktery zas neni radno nastavovat uplne maly, protoze zebra je dive zvire
>>a je lepsi tam mit jiste veci "naddimenzovane")
>>
>>2) jak rychle merit stav spoje
>>
>>nerad delam polovicata reseni a z vysledku mereni vyplyva ze prechod
>>mezi stavy 0%PL a 100%PL muze vypadat temer jakkoliv a trvat ruznou
>>dobu; rad bych se dobral k vysledku kdy uzivatel pouzivajici treba ssh
>>skr link temer nepozna moment odstaveni ronja-spoje a prepnuti na zalohu.
>>Z toho vyplyva nutnost merit pomerne casto (odhadem kazdych 5 sekund?) a
>>spolehlive (tedy cisco nebo flood ping) stav spoje.
>>
>>Otazka tedy zni, existuje nejaka c-ckova knihovna implementujici
>>kvalitne ping pouzitelny pro tyto ucely?
>>
>>Predem diky za dalsi podnety.
>>
>>English summary:
>>1) How to switch off the OSPF link
>>   a) increse cost online
>>       + fast
>>       - need update two OSPF routers or run two monitor instances
>>         (on each router)
>>   b) switch to passive interface online
>>       + only one instance of monitor
>>       - slow (at least "dead-interval")
>>   c) more solutions? suggest...
>>2) How to measure link quality?
>>   Suggest usable ping (flood, cisco) c-library...?
>>
>>Pavel
>>HKFree.org
>>
>>Michal Malusek wrote:
>>
>>>ja driv nez sme nasadili ospf a zebru mel tenhle vlastni skriptik
>>>
>>>two=10.69.111.2
>>>ping $two -f -c 100 -A | grep "loss" | awk '{
>>>    #if (substr($6, 0, index($6, "%")) > 25) {
>>>    if ($4 < 75) {
>>>        system("/root/switch-to-wifi");
>>>    } else {
>>>        system("/root/switch-to-ronja");
>>>    };
>>>}'
>>>
>>>switch-to-wifi a ronja pak prehodili routovani
>>>
>>>treba
>>>ip route change default via 10.69.111.1
>>>
>>>kdyz se to pak nakronuje na obou routerech co 5 minut tak to funguje
> 
> velmi
> 
>>>pekne. mnohem lepe nez ospf ktere to fakr routuje doku projde hello
> 
> packet
> 
>>>:/
>>>
>>>pokud by si tim zmenil online cenu spoje v ospf tak preroutuje ospf na
> 
> jinou
> 
>>>trasu, ze. kdyz se ti to povede dotahnout tak by to bylo super :) do
> 
> toho
> 
>>>skriptu muzes dat i histerezi. ale mozna to je zbytecne.
>>>
>>>Glo
>>>
>>
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 


From m.malusek at seznam.cz  Mon Oct 17 18:28:29 2005
From: m.malusek at seznam.cz (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Michal_Malusek?=)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 19:28:29 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] SW pro Ronja + Wifi backup
References: <1128628628.434581942dec1@www.gybon.cz>	<001801c5cac0$4f9036b0$0103450a@thechosen>	<4352A9CE.90809@gybon.cz>
	<003801c5d33b$6e3f71b0$0103450a@thechosen>
	<4353DA75.2000905@gybon.cz>
Message-ID: <000901c5d340$30d8cf10$0103450a@thechosen>

mas pravdu, u jednoho spje to nema smysl. ja resil tak nejak celkouvou
provzuschopnost cele nasi site na melniku. mame 8 ronjidel. zadna nema
primou zalohu. zalohuji se tak nejak navzajem + nejake to wifi (vic ronj nez
wifi). mame po siti kruhy. takze najednou zacnou lossit treba dve a ja tim
tak muzu vybrat tu "lepsi". nemuzu si dovolit ji zahodit rovnou.

u primeho wifi backupu by to melo smysl asi jen kdyby lossila i ta zaloha.
lossujici ronja s 10% je lepsi nez nelossujici wifi :) ale to je na
zamyslenou a jak to ma kdo vypozorovane.

kdyz udelas linearni zmenu mas to tak jakoby obecnejsi. protoze to muzes
nastavit tak ze to proste na 30% prepne kdyz zadas krok zvedani cost tak aby
na 30% byl vyssi nez wifi zalohy.

Glo

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Pavel Kriz" <pavkriz at gybon.cz>
To: "Michal Malusek" <m.malusek at seznam.cz>; "Twibright Ronja"
<ronja at lists.pointless.net>
Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 7:08 PM
Subject: Re: [Ronja] SW pro Ronja + Wifi backup


> ok, diky za zkusenosti ze to ma smysl.
>
> jinak jsme si asi trochu nerozumeli, ja tu za celou dobu vubec nezminil
> moznost shodit interface protoze to samozrejme neni dobre reseni, zminil
> jsem tu jine dve moznosti:
> - zvysit cost
> - prenout if do "passive interface" coz je terminus-technicus v
> konfiguraci OSPF routru (zebry) a rozhodne to neznamena shozeni ("down")
> interfacu. anglicky vyklad je tento:
> Suppress/unsuppress OSPF packets from being sent or received over the
> specified interface.
>
> dal muzu pozadat o vysvetleni, jaky ma mysl linearne zvysovat cost podle
> stavu linku (PL) ? jedinne co by snad mohlo davat smysl by byla situace
> kdy je topologie slozitejsi a zalozni spoj(e) neni primo "rovnobezny" s
> ronja-spojem, ale jinak smysl nechapu, prece stejne ten OSPF router
> prepne na zalohu proste v momente kdy cost ronji prevysi cost zalohy,
> tak proc rovnou nemenite cost jen dvoustavove?
>
> Pavel
> HKFree.org
>
> Michal Malusek wrote:
> > ja na sadil moznost zmeny costu, a to na kazdem routeru zvlast.
> >
> > zatim s emi to chva velmi dobre. cost zvysuji s packetlossem tak nejak
> > linearne. a zatim se to osvedcilo.
> >
> > shozeni if neni dobre reseni protoze ip z rozsahu kde shodis if pingnes
> > prave kvuli vyplemu rp filtru. kdezto kdyz zvisis cenu budes pingat vzdy
> > pres lokalni rozhrani a tudis se ti casem zmeni i druha strana, kdyz si
tam
> > nacronujes stejnej script nebo prog. shodit if uz vubec neni dobre kvuli
> > stabylite zebry, kolikrat s emi stalo ze vytuhla. zmena costu zatim
> > nezpusobila za nekolik dni zadnou pohromu. zadny nedeterminismus sem
> > nezaznamenal. ustali se to vzdy v nejlepsi konfiguraci.
> >
> > Glo
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Pavel Kriz" <pavkriz at gybon.cz>
> > To: "Michal Malusek" <m.malusek at seznam.cz>; "Twibright Ronja"
> > <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
> > Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 9:28 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Ronja] SW pro Ronja + Wifi backup
> >
> >
> >
> >>No samozrejme zmenit cokoliv v zebre online neni problem. Zasadni veci k
> >>vyreseni jsou tyto:
> >>
> >>1) jak "vypnout" spoj v zebre (OSPF)
> >>
> >>zatim tedy vim dve reseni
> >>
> >>a) zmenit cost linku
> >>
> >>vyhody:
> >>preroutuje rychle na druhy link
> >>
> >>nevyhody:
> >>resi pouze jeden smer (odchozi z daneho mista), monitor by musel bud byt
> >>schopen prekonfigurovat i vzdalenou zebru (coz se uz nemusi skrz
> >>nekvalitni link podarit), nebo by musel bezet na obou koncich spoje (2
> >>instance) coz bohuzel pridava dalsi "stupen volnosti a
> >>nedeterministicnost" (ale obecne neni duvod aby to prepinani nebylo
> >>zcela symetricke, pokud je na routrech vypnut rp_filter)
> >>
> >>b) prepnout interface do stavu "passive interface"
> >>
> >>vyhody:
> >>staci udelat na jedne strane spoje (bezi jen jedna instance monitoru,
> >>snadne ladeni, slusna determinicnost)
> >>
> >>nevyhody:
> >>preroutuje pomalu (k prepnuti dojde presne po uplynuti dead-intervalu
> >>ktery zas neni radno nastavovat uplne maly, protoze zebra je dive zvire
> >>a je lepsi tam mit jiste veci "naddimenzovane")
> >>
> >>2) jak rychle merit stav spoje
> >>
> >>nerad delam polovicata reseni a z vysledku mereni vyplyva ze prechod
> >>mezi stavy 0%PL a 100%PL muze vypadat temer jakkoliv a trvat ruznou
> >>dobu; rad bych se dobral k vysledku kdy uzivatel pouzivajici treba ssh
> >>skr link temer nepozna moment odstaveni ronja-spoje a prepnuti na
zalohu.
> >>Z toho vyplyva nutnost merit pomerne casto (odhadem kazdych 5 sekund?) a
> >>spolehlive (tedy cisco nebo flood ping) stav spoje.
> >>
> >>Otazka tedy zni, existuje nejaka c-ckova knihovna implementujici
> >>kvalitne ping pouzitelny pro tyto ucely?
> >>
> >>Predem diky za dalsi podnety.
> >>
> >>English summary:
> >>1) How to switch off the OSPF link
> >>   a) increse cost online
> >>       + fast
> >>       - need update two OSPF routers or run two monitor instances
> >>         (on each router)
> >>   b) switch to passive interface online
> >>       + only one instance of monitor
> >>       - slow (at least "dead-interval")
> >>   c) more solutions? suggest...
> >>2) How to measure link quality?
> >>   Suggest usable ping (flood, cisco) c-library...?
> >>
> >>Pavel
> >>HKFree.org
> >>
> >>Michal Malusek wrote:
> >>
> >>>ja driv nez sme nasadili ospf a zebru mel tenhle vlastni skriptik
> >>>
> >>>two=10.69.111.2
> >>>ping $two -f -c 100 -A | grep "loss" | awk '{
> >>>    #if (substr($6, 0, index($6, "%")) > 25) {
> >>>    if ($4 < 75) {
> >>>        system("/root/switch-to-wifi");
> >>>    } else {
> >>>        system("/root/switch-to-ronja");
> >>>    };
> >>>}'
> >>>
> >>>switch-to-wifi a ronja pak prehodili routovani
> >>>
> >>>treba
> >>>ip route change default via 10.69.111.1
> >>>
> >>>kdyz se to pak nakronuje na obou routerech co 5 minut tak to funguje
> >
> > velmi
> >
> >>>pekne. mnohem lepe nez ospf ktere to fakr routuje doku projde hello
> >
> > packet
> >
> >>>:/
> >>>
> >>>pokud by si tim zmenil online cenu spoje v ospf tak preroutuje ospf na
> >
> > jinou
> >
> >>>trasu, ze. kdyz se ti to povede dotahnout tak by to bylo super :) do
> >
> > toho
> >
> >>>skriptu muzes dat i histerezi. ale mozna to je zbytecne.
> >>>
> >>>Glo
> >>>
> >>
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ronja mailing list
> > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> >
>



From clock at twibright.com  Mon Oct 17 18:29:40 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 19:29:40 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Zvlastni rx - vyreseno
In-Reply-To: <1129564100.4353c7c4c5a75@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
References: <opsylqxd1wn6qjls@daman> <opsyq7u1k4n6qjls@daman>
	<20051017084903.GB23716@kestrel>
	<1129564100.4353c7c4c5a75@desitka.sh.cvut.cz>
Message-ID: <20051017172940.GA4188@kestrel>

On Mon, Oct 17, 2005 at 05:48:20PM +0200, Seligr at sh.cvut.cz wrote:
> Vypada to ze nForce2 za to nemuze. Vinikem podle vseho je cip RTL8201 ktery je
> na deskach s nForcem pouzivan jako integrovana sitova karta. Jeste jsem nevidel
> ze by tam bylo neco jineho.

I have seen one Realtek chip which had packetloss even on 2m of
UTP cable. I don't remember which one it was. 8209 I think. (Which should
be the same architecture like 8201, 8201 being single transceiver and
8209 probably integrated with the logic.)

CL<
> 
> Petr
> 
> Cituji z emailu od Karel Kulhavy <clock at twibright.com>:
> 
> > On Sun, Oct 16, 2005 at 07:46:03PM -0000, Daniel Strnad wrote:
> > > tak uz to chodi :) Chyba byla v ne zrovna dobre zvolene NIC - integr.  
> > > nForce2 nejak blbe vysilala pakety. Dekuji vsem za reakce!
> > 
> > I tried this NIC and worked, but with some packetloss. I used rtl8139
> > instead. Probably the onboard nic is cheap and doesn't have robust
> > PLL which is necessary for FSO and good wired Ethernet performance.
> > 
> > CL<
> > > 
> > > On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 20:52:15 -0000, Daniel Strnad  
> > > <daniel.strnad at tiscali.cz> wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Ahoj,
> > > > uz pres tyden se zabyvam zahadnym chovanim ronjiho rx. Funguje totiz
> > jen
> > > > kdyz asi 4cm nad nej dam ruku(do oblasti za 2. prepazkou), nesmim ji
> > ale
> > > > zas dat moc dovnitr, protoze to uz chyta logicky moc sumu. LEDky na
> > > > twisteru blikaj pekne v rytmu pingu bez ohledu na to, jestli nad rx mam
> > > > danou ruku nebo ne. Kdyz ale pustim floodping a chytne se to, tak muzu 
> > 
> > > > dat
> > > > ruku pryc a jede to. Zkousel jsem vymenit mosfet, fotodiodu a vubec
> > > > vsechno co je za 2. prepazkou. Peclive jsem promeril hodnoty vsech
> > > > soucastek, zjistoval jestli nekde neni shortly kondik, meril
> > > > testpointy(sedi vsechny), zkontroloval zapojeni dle schematu a
> > > > zkontroloval kabelaz. Pak jsem jeste prohodil twistery jestli neni ten
> > > > jeden vadnej ale furt je chyba na te same strane. Zkousel jsem i
> > prohodit
> > > > txka, jestli nahodou to co je proti tomu vadnymu rx neni spatny. Kdyz
> > na
> > > > nej nasadim vicko tak to taky nema vliv. Nema vliv ani to jestli to
> > > > testuju na 2m(RSSI  neco kolem 100mV) nebo na 20cm(RSSI 3,5V).  Uz jsem
> > z
> > > > toho fakt zoufalej. Jo a jeste dodam ze to rx fungovalo do chvile nez  
> > > > jsem
> > > > na nem ladil odpor R106 - ale zkousel jsem tam pak dat znovu ten puvodni 
> > 
> > > > a
> > > > vysledek negativni :( Taky jsem uz prepajel vetsinu spoju. Zda se ze
> > aby
> > > > to rx chodilo potrebuje nejake minimalni mnozstvi sumu ci co. Kdybych
> > mel
> > > > aspon moznost pujcit si osciloskop, bylo by hned veseleji. Netusite v
> > cem
> > > > je problem?
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Ronja mailing list
> > > > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > -- 
> > > Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Ronja mailing list
> > > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ronja mailing list
> > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From djbobr.ronja at seznam.cz  Mon Oct 17 18:36:44 2005
From: djbobr.ronja at seznam.cz (dj-bobr)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 19:36:44 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] SW pro Ronja + Wifi backup
In-Reply-To: <000901c5d340$30d8cf10$0103450a@thechosen>
References: <1128628628.434581942dec1@www.gybon.cz>	<001801c5cac0$4f9036b0$0103450a@thechosen>	<4352A9CE.90809@gybon.cz>	<003801c5d33b$6e3f71b0$0103450a@thechosen>	<4353DA75.2000905@gybon.cz>
	<000901c5d340$30d8cf10$0103450a@thechosen>
Message-ID: <4353E12C.2050503@seznam.cz>

> u primeho wifi backupu by to melo smysl asi jen kdyby lossila i ta zaloha.
> lossujici ronja s 10% je lepsi nez nelossujici wifi :) ale to je na
> zamyslenou a jak to ma kdo vypozorovane.
Jen takove male doporuceni: aspon UDP bych honil radsi tou wifi zalohou. 
10% packetloss pri VoIP telefonovani uz je hodne znat :(


From m.malusek at seznam.cz  Mon Oct 17 19:27:15 2005
From: m.malusek at seznam.cz (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Michal_Malusek?=)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 20:27:15 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] SW pro Ronja + Wifi backup
References: <1128628628.434581942dec1@www.gybon.cz>
	<001801c5cac0$4f9036b0$0103450a@thechosen>
	<4352A9CE.90809@gybon.cz>
	<003801c5d33b$6e3f71b0$0103450a@thechosen>
	<4353DA75.2000905@gybon.cz>
	<000901c5d340$30d8cf10$0103450a@thechosen>
	<20051017181057.GA4935@kestrel>
Message-ID: <000701c5d348$6667c570$0103450a@thechosen>

du to zkusit sepsat, kdzy ne ted tak uz asi nikdy. topologii mam, fotku snad
taky nejakou vyhrabu ale uz to moc nefotime.

Glo

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Karel Kulhavy" <clock at twibright.com>
To: "Michal Malusek" <m.malusek at seznam.cz>
Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 8:10 PM
Subject: Re: [Ronja] SW pro Ronja + Wifi backup


> On Mon, Oct 17, 2005 at 07:28:29PM +0200, Michal Malusek wrote:
> > mas pravdu, u jednoho spje to nema smysl. ja resil tak nejak celkouvou
> > provzuschopnost cele nasi site na melniku. mame 8 ronjidel. zadna nema
> > primou zalohu. zalohuji se tak nejak navzajem + nejake to wifi (vic ronj
nez
> > wifi). mame po siti kruhy. takze najednou zacnou lossit treba dve a ja
tim
> > tak muzu vybrat tu "lepsi". nemuzu si dovolit ji zahodit rovnou.
>
> Hehe muzu dat do galerie? :) Mate fotky delky a technicke parametry?
> Mapu topologie?
>
> CL<
>



From m.malusek at seznam.cz  Mon Oct 17 19:48:57 2005
From: m.malusek at seznam.cz (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Michal_Malusek?=)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 20:48:57 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] SW pro Ronja + Wifi backup
References: <1128628628.434581942dec1@www.gybon.cz>
	<001801c5cac0$4f9036b0$0103450a@thechosen>
	<4352A9CE.90809@gybon.cz>
	<003801c5d33b$6e3f71b0$0103450a@thechosen>
	<4353DA75.2000905@gybon.cz>
	<000901c5d340$30d8cf10$0103450a@thechosen>
	<20051017181057.GA4935@kestrel>
Message-ID: <000b01c5d34b$6ece29e0$0103450a@thechosen>

vsechny jsou stejne.

130mm prumer cocek
plastova cervena roura.
standartni prijimac
standartni vysilac
SFH203, HSDL4230
nestandartni mechanika
propojeni nepouziva koax.
par jich ma "PoE"

200m
300m
300m
600m
1000m
800m
150m

naka fotka a mapa je tady, http://fotos.glottis.net/ronja/
a
http://glottis.net/fotos/ronja/ronja-fifth/
http://glottis.net/fotos/ronja/ronja-second/
ale moc jich neni, ja vetsinou nefotim a z kazde akce to nema.
na mape je ronaj cervene.

jeste neco doplnit?
Glo

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Karel Kulhavy" <clock at twibright.com>
To: "Michal Malusek" <m.malusek at seznam.cz>
Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 8:10 PM
Subject: Re: [Ronja] SW pro Ronja + Wifi backup


> On Mon, Oct 17, 2005 at 07:28:29PM +0200, Michal Malusek wrote:
> > mas pravdu, u jednoho spje to nema smysl. ja resil tak nejak celkouvou
> > provzuschopnost cele nasi site na melniku. mame 8 ronjidel. zadna nema
> > primou zalohu. zalohuji se tak nejak navzajem + nejake to wifi (vic ronj
nez
> > wifi). mame po siti kruhy. takze najednou zacnou lossit treba dve a ja
tim
> > tak muzu vybrat tu "lepsi". nemuzu si dovolit ji zahodit rovnou.
>
> Hehe muzu dat do galerie? :) Mate fotky delky a technicke parametry?
> Mapu topologie?
>
> CL<
>



From daniel.strnad at tiscali.cz  Mon Oct 17 23:36:45 2005
From: daniel.strnad at tiscali.cz (Daniel Strnad)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 22:36:45 -0000
Subject: [Ronja] SW pro Ronja + Wifi backup
In-Reply-To: <000b01c5d34b$6ece29e0$0103450a@thechosen>
References: <1128628628.434581942dec1@www.gybon.cz>
	<001801c5cac0$4f9036b0$0103450a@thechosen>
	<4352A9CE.90809@gybon.cz>
	<003801c5d33b$6e3f71b0$0103450a@thechosen>
	<4353DA75.2000905@gybon.cz>
	<000901c5d340$30d8cf10$0103450a@thechosen>
	<20051017181057.GA4935@kestrel>
	<000b01c5d34b$6ece29e0$0103450a@thechosen>
Message-ID: <opsytafjiqn6qjls@daman>

Ten plosnak vedle twisteru co tam mas to je nejaky menic na PoE a merak  
sily signalu v jednom(nebo k cemu je tam ten bargraf)? Mas k tomu schema?

On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 20:48:57 +0200, Michal Malusek <m.malusek at seznam.cz>  
wrote:

> vsechny jsou stejne.
>
> 130mm prumer cocek
> plastova cervena roura.
> standartni prijimac
> standartni vysilac
> SFH203, HSDL4230
> nestandartni mechanika
> propojeni nepouziva koax.
> par jich ma "PoE"
>
> 200m
> 300m
> 300m
> 600m
> 1000m
> 800m
> 150m
>
> naka fotka a mapa je tady, http://fotos.glottis.net/ronja/
> a
> http://glottis.net/fotos/ronja/ronja-fifth/
> http://glottis.net/fotos/ronja/ronja-second/
> ale moc jich neni, ja vetsinou nefotim a z kazde akce to nema.
> na mape je ronaj cervene.
>
> jeste neco doplnit?
> Glo
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Karel Kulhavy" <clock at twibright.com>
> To: "Michal Malusek" <m.malusek at seznam.cz>
> Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 8:10 PM
> Subject: Re: [Ronja] SW pro Ronja + Wifi backup
>
>
>> On Mon, Oct 17, 2005 at 07:28:29PM +0200, Michal Malusek wrote:
>> > mas pravdu, u jednoho spje to nema smysl. ja resil tak nejak celkouvou
>> > provzuschopnost cele nasi site na melniku. mame 8 ronjidel. zadna nema
>> > primou zalohu. zalohuji se tak nejak navzajem + nejake to wifi (vic  
>> ronj
> nez
>> > wifi). mame po siti kruhy. takze najednou zacnou lossit treba dve a ja
> tim
>> > tak muzu vybrat tu "lepsi". nemuzu si dovolit ji zahodit rovnou.
>>
>> Hehe muzu dat do galerie? :) Mate fotky delky a technicke parametry?
>> Mapu topologie?
>>
>> CL<
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja



-- 
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/


From ronja at hansmi.ch  Mon Oct 17 21:57:00 2005
From: ronja at hansmi.ch (Michael Hanselmann)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 22:57:00 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Jakub =?utf-8?B?SG9ya8O9ICh0?= =?utf-8?Q?he_perso?=
	=?utf-8?Q?n?= behind ronjashop.info) doesn't respond, PCBs not delivered
In-Reply-To: <20051013110824.GA6815@hansmi.ch>
References: <20051005193651.GB26657@hansmi.ch> <434432A0.5090402@seznam.cz>
	<20051013110824.GA6815@hansmi.ch>
Message-ID: <20051017205700.GA8598@hansmi.ch>

Hello

> Therefore, I added a warning wiki links to ronjashop.com in the Wiki.

Just a short update: Today jbohac was able to call Jakub. Jakub is very
busy at the moment and has a backlog several houndreds of e-mail. So if
there's someone else also waiting, just be patient.

Greets,
Michael

-- 
Gentoo Linux Developer using m0n0wall | http://hansmi.ch/
Just don't compare it with a real language, or you'll be unhappy...  :-)
             -- Larry Wall in <1992May12.190238.5667 at netlabs.com>
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From m.malusek at seznam.cz  Mon Oct 17 22:17:52 2005
From: m.malusek at seznam.cz (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Michal_Malusek?=)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 23:17:52 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] SW pro Ronja + Wifi backup
References: <1128628628.434581942dec1@www.gybon.cz>
	<001801c5cac0$4f9036b0$0103450a@thechosen>
	<4352A9CE.90809@gybon.cz>
	<003801c5d33b$6e3f71b0$0103450a@thechosen>
	<4353DA75.2000905@gybon.cz>
	<000901c5d340$30d8cf10$0103450a@thechosen>
	<20051017181057.GA4935@kestrel>
	<000b01c5d34b$6ece29e0$0103450a@thechosen> <opsytafjiqn6qjls@daman>
Message-ID: <000801c5d360$3c75ee50$0103450a@thechosen>

jo, menic z 20-40V na 12V s L4960 (schema v datasheetu) a je na desticce
rovnou i bargraf ale ten uz ani neosazuju. je to celkem na prd. jen to stoji
penize navic. je tam normalni lm**** nepamatuju se cislo. nasel sem
pozustatek schematu toho bargrafu a pdf desky. schema zdroje je v
datasheetu. mam to cele v eaglu ale eagla uz nemam, uz v nem nekreslim.
kdyby to nekdo chtel tak poslu.

Glo


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Daniel Strnad" <daniel.strnad at tiscali.cz>
To: "Michal Malusek" <m.malusek at seznam.cz>; "Twibright Ronja"
<ronja at lists.pointless.net>
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 12:36 AM
Subject: Re: [Ronja] SW pro Ronja + Wifi backup


> Ten plosnak vedle twisteru co tam mas to je nejaky menic na PoE a merak
> sily signalu v jednom(nebo k cemu je tam ten bargraf)? Mas k tomu schema?
>
> On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 20:48:57 +0200, Michal Malusek <m.malusek at seznam.cz>
> wrote:
>
> > vsechny jsou stejne.
> >
> > 130mm prumer cocek
> > plastova cervena roura.
> > standartni prijimac
> > standartni vysilac
> > SFH203, HSDL4230
> > nestandartni mechanika
> > propojeni nepouziva koax.
> > par jich ma "PoE"
> >
> > 200m
> > 300m
> > 300m
> > 600m
> > 1000m
> > 800m
> > 150m
> >
> > naka fotka a mapa je tady, http://fotos.glottis.net/ronja/
> > a
> > http://glottis.net/fotos/ronja/ronja-fifth/
> > http://glottis.net/fotos/ronja/ronja-second/
> > ale moc jich neni, ja vetsinou nefotim a z kazde akce to nema.
> > na mape je ronaj cervene.
> >
> > jeste neco doplnit?
> > Glo
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Karel Kulhavy" <clock at twibright.com>
> > To: "Michal Malusek" <m.malusek at seznam.cz>
> > Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 8:10 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Ronja] SW pro Ronja + Wifi backup
> >
> >
> >> On Mon, Oct 17, 2005 at 07:28:29PM +0200, Michal Malusek wrote:
> >> > mas pravdu, u jednoho spje to nema smysl. ja resil tak nejak
celkouvou
> >> > provzuschopnost cele nasi site na melniku. mame 8 ronjidel. zadna
nema
> >> > primou zalohu. zalohuji se tak nejak navzajem + nejake to wifi (vic
> >> ronj
> > nez
> >> > wifi). mame po siti kruhy. takze najednou zacnou lossit treba dve a
ja
> > tim
> >> > tak muzu vybrat tu "lepsi". nemuzu si dovolit ji zahodit rovnou.
> >>
> >> Hehe muzu dat do galerie? :) Mate fotky delky a technicke parametry?
> >> Mapu topologie?
> >>
> >> CL<
> >>
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ronja mailing list
> > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>
>
>
> -- 
> Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
>
------------- dal?? ??st ---------------
Netextov? p??loha byla odstran?na...
Jm?no: signal.png
Typ: image/png
Velikost: 15222 bytes
Popis: [??dn? popis nen? k dispozici]
Url : http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20051017/311174ab/signal-0001.png
------------- dal?? ??st ---------------
Netextov? p??loha byla odstran?na...
Jm?no: ronjazdroj.pdf
Typ: application/pdf
Velikost: 80882 bytes
Popis: [??dn? popis nen? k dispozici]
Url : http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20051017/311174ab/ronjazdroj-0001.pdf

From lucasvo at gmx.ch  Mon Oct 17 22:42:47 2005
From: lucasvo at gmx.ch (Lucas Vogelsang)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 23:42:47 +0200 (MEST)
Subject: [Ronja] GPL -> GFDL
References: <20051016133258.GA3208@kestrel>
Message-ID: <6907.1129585367@www14.gmx.net>

hi,

and what about bom.c and other scripts, make ? :D

lucas

> --- Urspr?ngliche Nachricht ---
> Von: Karel Kulhavy <clock at twibright.com>
> An: Twibright Ronja <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
> Betreff: [Ronja] GPL -> GFDL
> Datum: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 15:32:58 +0200
> 
> I have changed the licence from GPL to GFDL.
> 
> What if I also labeled the images.twibright.com to be under GFDL?
> Would anyone be against that? If yes, I can take his photos off.
> 
> CL<
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 

-- 
Lust, ein paar Euro nebenbei zu verdienen? Ohne Kosten, ohne Risiko!
Satte Provisionen f?r GMX Partner: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/partner


From clock at twibright.com  Tue Oct 18 09:49:14 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 10:49:14 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] GPL -> GFDL
In-Reply-To: <6907.1129585367@www14.gmx.net>
References: <20051016133258.GA3208@kestrel> <6907.1129585367@www14.gmx.net>
Message-ID: <20051018084914.GA19784@kestrel>

On Mon, Oct 17, 2005 at 11:42:47PM +0200, Lucas Vogelsang wrote:
> hi,
> 
> and what about bom.c and other scripts, make ? :D

They are under GPL

CL<
> 
> lucas
> 
> > --- Urspr?ngliche Nachricht ---
> > Von: Karel Kulhavy <clock at twibright.com>
> > An: Twibright Ronja <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
> > Betreff: [Ronja] GPL -> GFDL
> > Datum: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 15:32:58 +0200
> > 
> > I have changed the licence from GPL to GFDL.
> > 
> > What if I also labeled the images.twibright.com to be under GFDL?
> > Would anyone be against that? If yes, I can take his photos off.
> > 
> > CL<
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ronja mailing list
> > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> > 
> 
> -- 
> Lust, ein paar Euro nebenbei zu verdienen? Ohne Kosten, ohne Risiko!
> Satte Provisionen f?r GMX Partner: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/partner
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From clock at twibright.com  Tue Oct 18 10:47:50 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 11:47:50 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] SW pro Ronja + Wifi backup
In-Reply-To: <000801c5d360$3c75ee50$0103450a@thechosen>
References: <1128628628.434581942dec1@www.gybon.cz>
	<001801c5cac0$4f9036b0$0103450a@thechosen>
	<4352A9CE.90809@gybon.cz>
	<003801c5d33b$6e3f71b0$0103450a@thechosen>
	<4353DA75.2000905@gybon.cz>
	<000901c5d340$30d8cf10$0103450a@thechosen>
	<20051017181057.GA4935@kestrel>
	<000b01c5d34b$6ece29e0$0103450a@thechosen> <opsytafjiqn6qjls@daman>
	<000801c5d360$3c75ee50$0103450a@thechosen>
Message-ID: <20051018094750.GA8701@kestrel>

On Mon, Oct 17, 2005 at 11:17:52PM +0200, Michal Malusek wrote:
> jo, menic z 20-40V na 12V s L4960 (schema v datasheetu) a je na desticce

Do you know about any sexy DC/DC converter from 5-10V to 12V and another
one to 50V?

Can one use L4960 for 12V->5V as well?

> rovnou i bargraf ale ten uz ani neosazuju. je to celkem na prd. jen to stoji
> penize navic. je tam normalni lm**** nepamatuju se cislo. nasel sem
> pozustatek schematu toho bargrafu a pdf desky. schema zdroje je v
> datasheetu. mam to cele v eaglu ale eagla uz nemam, uz v nem nekreslim.

What do you use for drafting schematics now?

CL<
> kdyby to nekdo chtel tak poslu.
> 
> Glo
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Daniel Strnad" <daniel.strnad at tiscali.cz>
> To: "Michal Malusek" <m.malusek at seznam.cz>; "Twibright Ronja"
> <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 12:36 AM
> Subject: Re: [Ronja] SW pro Ronja + Wifi backup
> 
> 
> > Ten plosnak vedle twisteru co tam mas to je nejaky menic na PoE a merak
> > sily signalu v jednom(nebo k cemu je tam ten bargraf)? Mas k tomu schema?
> >
> > On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 20:48:57 +0200, Michal Malusek <m.malusek at seznam.cz>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > vsechny jsou stejne.
> > >
> > > 130mm prumer cocek
> > > plastova cervena roura.
> > > standartni prijimac
> > > standartni vysilac
> > > SFH203, HSDL4230
> > > nestandartni mechanika
> > > propojeni nepouziva koax.
> > > par jich ma "PoE"
> > >
> > > 200m
> > > 300m
> > > 300m
> > > 600m
> > > 1000m
> > > 800m
> > > 150m
> > >
> > > naka fotka a mapa je tady, http://fotos.glottis.net/ronja/
> > > a
> > > http://glottis.net/fotos/ronja/ronja-fifth/
> > > http://glottis.net/fotos/ronja/ronja-second/
> > > ale moc jich neni, ja vetsinou nefotim a z kazde akce to nema.
> > > na mape je ronaj cervene.
> > >
> > > jeste neco doplnit?
> > > Glo
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Karel Kulhavy" <clock at twibright.com>
> > > To: "Michal Malusek" <m.malusek at seznam.cz>
> > > Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 8:10 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [Ronja] SW pro Ronja + Wifi backup
> > >
> > >
> > >> On Mon, Oct 17, 2005 at 07:28:29PM +0200, Michal Malusek wrote:
> > >> > mas pravdu, u jednoho spje to nema smysl. ja resil tak nejak
> celkouvou
> > >> > provzuschopnost cele nasi site na melniku. mame 8 ronjidel. zadna
> nema
> > >> > primou zalohu. zalohuji se tak nejak navzajem + nejake to wifi (vic
> > >> ronj
> > > nez
> > >> > wifi). mame po siti kruhy. takze najednou zacnou lossit treba dve a
> ja
> > > tim
> > >> > tak muzu vybrat tu "lepsi". nemuzu si dovolit ji zahodit rovnou.
> > >>
> > >> Hehe muzu dat do galerie? :) Mate fotky delky a technicke parametry?
> > >> Mapu topologie?
> > >>
> > >> CL<
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Ronja mailing list
> > > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> >
> >
> >
> > -- 
> > Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
> >



> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja



From m.malusek at seznam.cz  Tue Oct 18 11:10:13 2005
From: m.malusek at seznam.cz (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Michal_Malusek?=)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 12:10:13 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] SW pro Ronja + Wifi backup
References: <1128628628.434581942dec1@www.gybon.cz>
	<001801c5cac0$4f9036b0$0103450a@thechosen>
	<4352A9CE.90809@gybon.cz>
	<003801c5d33b$6e3f71b0$0103450a@thechosen>
	<4353DA75.2000905@gybon.cz>
	<000901c5d340$30d8cf10$0103450a@thechosen>
	<20051017181057.GA4935@kestrel>
	<000b01c5d34b$6ece29e0$0103450a@thechosen> <opsytafjiqn6qjls@daman>
	<000801c5d360$3c75ee50$0103450a@thechosen>
	<20051018094750.GA8701@kestrel>
Message-ID: <001301c5d3cc$218c5040$0103450a@thechosen>

> On Mon, Oct 17, 2005 at 11:17:52PM +0200, Michal Malusek wrote:
> > jo, menic z 20-40V na 12V s L4960 (schema v datasheetu) a je na desticce
>
> Do you know about any sexy DC/DC converter from 5-10V to 12V and another
> one to 50V?

mc34063 ? easy but old. 3-40V input. output switch current 1,5A, work like
step-down  and step-up convertor

> Can one use L4960 for 12V->5V as well?

yes, output voltage L4960 is 5-40V, input max 50V, input min depend on
output. eficiency up to 90%, max oputput curent 2,5A

> > rovnou i bargraf ale ten uz ani neosazuju. je to celkem na prd. jen to
stoji
> > penize navic. je tam normalni lm**** nepamatuju se cislo. nasel sem
> > pozustatek schematu toho bargrafu a pdf desky. schema zdroje je v
> > datasheetu. mam to cele v eaglu ale eagla uz nemam, uz v nem nekreslim.
>
> What do you use for drafting schematics now?

v orCadu, mame to ve skole a asi rok sem v tom kreslil v jedne firme. s
eaglem se to neda srovnat. ale zadarmo to neni no. ale postscript z toho
taky vypadne.

> CL<
> > kdyby to nekdo chtel tak poslu.
> >
> > Glo
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Daniel Strnad" <daniel.strnad at tiscali.cz>
> > To: "Michal Malusek" <m.malusek at seznam.cz>; "Twibright Ronja"
> > <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 12:36 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Ronja] SW pro Ronja + Wifi backup
> >
> >
> > > Ten plosnak vedle twisteru co tam mas to je nejaky menic na PoE a
merak
> > > sily signalu v jednom(nebo k cemu je tam ten bargraf)? Mas k tomu
schema?
> > >
> > > On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 20:48:57 +0200, Michal Malusek
<m.malusek at seznam.cz>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > vsechny jsou stejne.
> > > >
> > > > 130mm prumer cocek
> > > > plastova cervena roura.
> > > > standartni prijimac
> > > > standartni vysilac
> > > > SFH203, HSDL4230
> > > > nestandartni mechanika
> > > > propojeni nepouziva koax.
> > > > par jich ma "PoE"
> > > >
> > > > 200m
> > > > 300m
> > > > 300m
> > > > 600m
> > > > 1000m
> > > > 800m
> > > > 150m
> > > >
> > > > naka fotka a mapa je tady, http://fotos.glottis.net/ronja/
> > > > a
> > > > http://glottis.net/fotos/ronja/ronja-fifth/
> > > > http://glottis.net/fotos/ronja/ronja-second/
> > > > ale moc jich neni, ja vetsinou nefotim a z kazde akce to nema.
> > > > na mape je ronaj cervene.
> > > >
> > > > jeste neco doplnit?
> > > > Glo
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Karel Kulhavy" <clock at twibright.com>
> > > > To: "Michal Malusek" <m.malusek at seznam.cz>
> > > > Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 8:10 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: [Ronja] SW pro Ronja + Wifi backup
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> On Mon, Oct 17, 2005 at 07:28:29PM +0200, Michal Malusek wrote:
> > > >> > mas pravdu, u jednoho spje to nema smysl. ja resil tak nejak
> > celkouvou
> > > >> > provzuschopnost cele nasi site na melniku. mame 8 ronjidel. zadna
> > nema
> > > >> > primou zalohu. zalohuji se tak nejak navzajem + nejake to wifi
(vic
> > > >> ronj
> > > > nez
> > > >> > wifi). mame po siti kruhy. takze najednou zacnou lossit treba dve
a
> > ja
> > > > tim
> > > >> > tak muzu vybrat tu "lepsi". nemuzu si dovolit ji zahodit rovnou.
> > > >>
> > > >> Hehe muzu dat do galerie? :) Mate fotky delky a technicke
parametry?
> > > >> Mapu topologie?
> > > >>
> > > >> CL<
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Ronja mailing list
> > > > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -- 
> > > Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
> > >
>
>
>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ronja mailing list
> > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>



From clock at twibright.com  Tue Oct 18 11:41:58 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 12:41:58 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] SW pro Ronja + Wifi backup
In-Reply-To: <001301c5d3cc$218c5040$0103450a@thechosen>
References: <4352A9CE.90809@gybon.cz>
	<003801c5d33b$6e3f71b0$0103450a@thechosen>
	<4353DA75.2000905@gybon.cz>
	<000901c5d340$30d8cf10$0103450a@thechosen>
	<20051017181057.GA4935@kestrel>
	<000b01c5d34b$6ece29e0$0103450a@thechosen> <opsytafjiqn6qjls@daman>
	<000801c5d360$3c75ee50$0103450a@thechosen>
	<20051018094750.GA8701@kestrel>
	<001301c5d3cc$218c5040$0103450a@thechosen>
Message-ID: <20051018104158.GD13015@kestrel>

On Tue, Oct 18, 2005 at 12:10:13PM +0200, Michal Malusek wrote:
> > On Mon, Oct 17, 2005 at 11:17:52PM +0200, Michal Malusek wrote:
> > > jo, menic z 20-40V na 12V s L4960 (schema v datasheetu) a je na desticce
> >
> > Do you know about any sexy DC/DC converter from 5-10V to 12V and another
> > one to 50V?
> 
> mc34063 ? easy but old. 3-40V input. output switch current 1,5A, work like
> step-down  and step-up convertor
> 
> > Can one use L4960 for 12V->5V as well?
> 
> yes, output voltage L4960 is 5-40V, input max 50V, input min depend on
> output. eficiency up to 90%, max oputput curent 2,5A
> 
> > > rovnou i bargraf ale ten uz ani neosazuju. je to celkem na prd. jen to
> stoji
> > > penize navic. je tam normalni lm**** nepamatuju se cislo. nasel sem
> > > pozustatek schematu toho bargrafu a pdf desky. schema zdroje je v
> > > datasheetu. mam to cele v eaglu ale eagla uz nemam, uz v nem nekreslim.
> >
> > What do you use for drafting schematics now?
> 
> v orCadu, mame to ve skole a asi rok sem v tom kreslil v jedne firme. s
> eaglem se to neda srovnat. ale zadarmo to neni no. ale postscript z toho
> taky vypadne.

I have been working in Orcad for money when I was on high school. I
don't remember much from that, but now I definitely like gschem from
all the tools most.

CL<


From clock at twibright.com  Wed Oct 19 00:29:26 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 01:29:26 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] hi karel
In-Reply-To: <353aafeb0510180826j79a7245bh7f19269505be3e2d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <353aafeb0510180826j79a7245bh7f19269505be3e2d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20051018232925.GA4035@kestrel>

On Tue, Oct 18, 2005 at 08:56:38PM +0530, vipul kalia wrote:
> hi karel well i wanted to know that if i purchase the pcb from ronja shop in
> how much time i will recieve it in india and will it be only the pcb or

You mean ronjashop.com? I don't know ask ronjashop.com

CL<

> components mounted on it well also tell me how to send money to the ronja
> shop guys
>  well bye for now
> have a nice day
> thank you
> vipulkalia


From clock at twibright.com  Wed Oct 19 11:09:09 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 12:09:09 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Ronja
In-Reply-To: <4355FE40.3010601@centrum.cz>
References: <4355FE40.3010601@centrum.cz>
Message-ID: <20051019100909.GC9296@kestrel>

On Wed, Oct 19, 2005 at 10:05:20AM +0200, Otakar Pycha wrote:
> Cau,
> s radosti musim oznamit, ze se nam o vikendu v Radotine povedlo spustit 
> Ronja spoj na vzdalenost cca. 626 metru, mechanika je vlastni konstrukce 
> 130mm (stejna jako ma kneza na Zbraslavi), RSSI na obou stranach okolo 3V..
> 
> Ale mam jeden dotaz :-) Twister mame pripojen do switche, ktery jsme 
> nastavili na 10Mbit (akorat se prepina FD/HD), a jede to jednim smerem 
> 1,2MB/s, ale druhym jen 300kB/s... Cim to je ? Jedna strana je spatne 
> nastavena (HD?)... Musi se ve twisteru prepinat ty jumpery kdyz je to 
> pripojene ke  switchi ? Mame je prepnute jako kdyz je to pripojene k 
> sitovce...

Do you have some photoze?

Yes switch the jumper like for switch that would be better. The
fact that it runs even when it's wired the other way suggests the
switch implements the dreaded auto MDI/MDI-X.

Try switching off any full duplexes. Then the Ronja should run without
problems half duplex. If yes, then the problem is in software
configuration. Try packetloss as well and look for "crc errors" and
"framing errors" or how it is called, in ifconfig. If they increase
quickly then it's a sign of bad signal.

CL<
> 
> 
> Diky,
> 
> Edison Radotin
> http://www.edison-radotin.cz


From petr.cipis at tiscali.cz  Wed Oct 19 12:42:00 2005
From: petr.cipis at tiscali.cz (Cipis)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 13:42:00 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Ronja
References: <4355FE40.3010601@centrum.cz> <20051019100909.GC9296@kestrel>
Message-ID: <003601c5d4a2$1e481c80$3701a8c0@pwech01>

No ja mel podobny problem, kdyz jsem doma na koberci zkousel celou sestavu,
na obou koncich upravene svice na 10M FD.
Zaraz to jelo jednim smerem 1+ MB/sec, druhym 600-700 KB/sec. Pokud to jelo
na stridacku, tak oba smery dosahly v pohode 1+ MB/sec. Zkousel jsem to FTP
v TotalCmd proti linux. serveru. Zkousel jsem to samozrejme i cele otocit.
Proste ten druhy, co zacal kopirovat pozdeji, tak mu to jelo pomaleji. Nema
to proste 2 MB/s FD, ale jen tak 1,6 - 1,7.
Mozna je problem ve Win ci FTP klientovi v TC nebo to proste nestihaji
masiny (to jsem zkousel do toho svice na jednu stranu dat dva komply, jeden
upload, druhy download, ale i tak to proste zaraz jelo min).
Kdyby bylo neco v halfdupleu, tak by to jelo par desitek KB/sec, ale tohle
je jiny problem.

Cipis

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Karel Kulhavy" <clock at twibright.com>
To: "Otakar Pycha" <cbedison at centrum.cz>
Cc: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 12:09 PM
Subject: Re: [Ronja] Ronja


> On Wed, Oct 19, 2005 at 10:05:20AM +0200, Otakar Pycha wrote:
> > Cau,
> > s radosti musim oznamit, ze se nam o vikendu v Radotine povedlo spustit
> > Ronja spoj na vzdalenost cca. 626 metru, mechanika je vlastni konstrukce
> > 130mm (stejna jako ma kneza na Zbraslavi), RSSI na obou stranach okolo
3V..
> >
> > Ale mam jeden dotaz :-) Twister mame pripojen do switche, ktery jsme
> > nastavili na 10Mbit (akorat se prepina FD/HD), a jede to jednim smerem
> > 1,2MB/s, ale druhym jen 300kB/s... Cim to je ? Jedna strana je spatne
> > nastavena (HD?)... Musi se ve twisteru prepinat ty jumpery kdyz je to
> > pripojene ke  switchi ? Mame je prepnute jako kdyz je to pripojene k
> > sitovce...
>
> Do you have some photoze?
>
> Yes switch the jumper like for switch that would be better. The
> fact that it runs even when it's wired the other way suggests the
> switch implements the dreaded auto MDI/MDI-X.
>
> Try switching off any full duplexes. Then the Ronja should run without
> problems half duplex. If yes, then the problem is in software
> configuration. Try packetloss as well and look for "crc errors" and
> "framing errors" or how it is called, in ifconfig. If they increase
> quickly then it's a sign of bad signal.
>
> CL<
> >
> >
> > Diky,
> >
> > Edison Radotin
> > http://www.edison-radotin.cz
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja



From kendy at hkfree.org  Wed Oct 19 13:33:27 2005
From: kendy at hkfree.org (kendy@hkfree.org)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 14:33:27 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Ronja] Ronja
In-Reply-To: <003601c5d4a2$1e481c80$3701a8c0@pwech01>
References: <4355FE40.3010601@centrum.cz> <20051019100909.GC9296@kestrel>
	<003601c5d4a2$1e481c80$3701a8c0@pwech01>
Message-ID: <2863.10.107.1.60.1129725207.squirrel@charon.hkfree.org>

Mno tohle mi to dela taky a i bez zapojeni do switche... Zjistil sem ze mi
nestihaji hardisky.
Kdyz sem toto hodil na ostry provoz, a tlacil pres to realny provoz, vse
jelo v pohode.

> No ja mel podobny problem, kdyz jsem doma na koberci zkousel celou
> sestavu,
> na obou koncich upravene svice na 10M FD.
> Zaraz to jelo jednim smerem 1+ MB/sec, druhym 600-700 KB/sec. Pokud to
> jelo
> na stridacku, tak oba smery dosahly v pohode 1+ MB/sec. Zkousel jsem to
> FTP
> v TotalCmd proti linux. serveru. Zkousel jsem to samozrejme i cele otocit.
> Proste ten druhy, co zacal kopirovat pozdeji, tak mu to jelo pomaleji.
> Nema
> to proste 2 MB/s FD, ale jen tak 1,6 - 1,7.
> Mozna je problem ve Win ci FTP klientovi v TC nebo to proste nestihaji
> masiny (to jsem zkousel do toho svice na jednu stranu dat dva komply,
> jeden
> upload, druhy download, ale i tak to proste zaraz jelo min).
> Kdyby bylo neco v halfdupleu, tak by to jelo par desitek KB/sec, ale tohle
> je jiny problem.
>
> Cipis
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Karel Kulhavy" <clock at twibright.com>
> To: "Otakar Pycha" <cbedison at centrum.cz>
> Cc: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 12:09 PM
> Subject: Re: [Ronja] Ronja
>
>
>> On Wed, Oct 19, 2005 at 10:05:20AM +0200, Otakar Pycha wrote:
>> > Cau,
>> > s radosti musim oznamit, ze se nam o vikendu v Radotine povedlo
>> spustit
>> > Ronja spoj na vzdalenost cca. 626 metru, mechanika je vlastni
>> konstrukce
>> > 130mm (stejna jako ma kneza na Zbraslavi), RSSI na obou stranach okolo
> 3V..
>> >
>> > Ale mam jeden dotaz :-) Twister mame pripojen do switche, ktery jsme
>> > nastavili na 10Mbit (akorat se prepina FD/HD), a jede to jednim smerem
>> > 1,2MB/s, ale druhym jen 300kB/s... Cim to je ? Jedna strana je spatne
>> > nastavena (HD?)... Musi se ve twisteru prepinat ty jumpery kdyz je to
>> > pripojene ke  switchi ? Mame je prepnute jako kdyz je to pripojene k
>> > sitovce...
>>
>> Do you have some photoze?
>>
>> Yes switch the jumper like for switch that would be better. The
>> fact that it runs even when it's wired the other way suggests the
>> switch implements the dreaded auto MDI/MDI-X.
>>
>> Try switching off any full duplexes. Then the Ronja should run without
>> problems half duplex. If yes, then the problem is in software
>> configuration. Try packetloss as well and look for "crc errors" and
>> "framing errors" or how it is called, in ifconfig. If they increase
>> quickly then it's a sign of bad signal.
>>
>> CL<
>> >
>> >
>> > Diky,
>> >
>> > Edison Radotin
>> > http://www.edison-radotin.cz
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ronja mailing list
>> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>




From clock at twibright.com  Wed Oct 19 15:04:18 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 16:04:18 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Ronja
In-Reply-To: <2863.10.107.1.60.1129725207.squirrel@charon.hkfree.org>
References: <4355FE40.3010601@centrum.cz> <20051019100909.GC9296@kestrel>
	<003601c5d4a2$1e481c80$3701a8c0@pwech01>
	<2863.10.107.1.60.1129725207.squirrel@charon.hkfree.org>
Message-ID: <20051019140418.GA19624@kestrel>

On Wed, Oct 19, 2005 at 02:33:27PM +0200, kendy at hkfree.org wrote:
> Mno tohle mi to dela taky a i bez zapojeni do switche... Zjistil sem ze mi
> nestihaji hardisky.
> Kdyz sem toto hodil na ostry provoz, a tlacil pres to realny provoz, vse
> jelo v pohode.

You can bypass the harddisk by relying on Linux memory cache if you have
enough memory and the file for testing is not bigger than free memory.

CL<
> 
> > No ja mel podobny problem, kdyz jsem doma na koberci zkousel celou
> > sestavu,
> > na obou koncich upravene svice na 10M FD.
> > Zaraz to jelo jednim smerem 1+ MB/sec, druhym 600-700 KB/sec. Pokud to
> > jelo
> > na stridacku, tak oba smery dosahly v pohode 1+ MB/sec. Zkousel jsem to
> > FTP
> > v TotalCmd proti linux. serveru. Zkousel jsem to samozrejme i cele otocit.
> > Proste ten druhy, co zacal kopirovat pozdeji, tak mu to jelo pomaleji.
> > Nema
> > to proste 2 MB/s FD, ale jen tak 1,6 - 1,7.
> > Mozna je problem ve Win ci FTP klientovi v TC nebo to proste nestihaji
> > masiny (to jsem zkousel do toho svice na jednu stranu dat dva komply,
> > jeden
> > upload, druhy download, ale i tak to proste zaraz jelo min).
> > Kdyby bylo neco v halfdupleu, tak by to jelo par desitek KB/sec, ale tohle
> > je jiny problem.
> >
> > Cipis
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Karel Kulhavy" <clock at twibright.com>
> > To: "Otakar Pycha" <cbedison at centrum.cz>
> > Cc: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 12:09 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Ronja] Ronja
> >
> >
> >> On Wed, Oct 19, 2005 at 10:05:20AM +0200, Otakar Pycha wrote:
> >> > Cau,
> >> > s radosti musim oznamit, ze se nam o vikendu v Radotine povedlo
> >> spustit
> >> > Ronja spoj na vzdalenost cca. 626 metru, mechanika je vlastni
> >> konstrukce
> >> > 130mm (stejna jako ma kneza na Zbraslavi), RSSI na obou stranach okolo
> > 3V..
> >> >
> >> > Ale mam jeden dotaz :-) Twister mame pripojen do switche, ktery jsme
> >> > nastavili na 10Mbit (akorat se prepina FD/HD), a jede to jednim smerem
> >> > 1,2MB/s, ale druhym jen 300kB/s... Cim to je ? Jedna strana je spatne
> >> > nastavena (HD?)... Musi se ve twisteru prepinat ty jumpery kdyz je to
> >> > pripojene ke  switchi ? Mame je prepnute jako kdyz je to pripojene k
> >> > sitovce...
> >>
> >> Do you have some photoze?
> >>
> >> Yes switch the jumper like for switch that would be better. The
> >> fact that it runs even when it's wired the other way suggests the
> >> switch implements the dreaded auto MDI/MDI-X.
> >>
> >> Try switching off any full duplexes. Then the Ronja should run without
> >> problems half duplex. If yes, then the problem is in software
> >> configuration. Try packetloss as well and look for "crc errors" and
> >> "framing errors" or how it is called, in ifconfig. If they increase
> >> quickly then it's a sign of bad signal.
> >>
> >> CL<
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Diky,
> >> >
> >> > Edison Radotin
> >> > http://www.edison-radotin.cz
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Ronja mailing list
> >> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> >> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ronja mailing list
> > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> >
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From clock at twibright.com  Wed Oct 19 15:06:19 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 16:06:19 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Ronja
In-Reply-To: <003601c5d4a2$1e481c80$3701a8c0@pwech01>
References: <4355FE40.3010601@centrum.cz> <20051019100909.GC9296@kestrel>
	<003601c5d4a2$1e481c80$3701a8c0@pwech01>
Message-ID: <20051019140619.GB19624@kestrel>

On Wed, Oct 19, 2005 at 01:42:00PM +0200, Cipis wrote:
> No ja mel podobny problem, kdyz jsem doma na koberci zkousel celou sestavu,
> na obou koncich upravene svice na 10M FD.
> Zaraz to jelo jednim smerem 1+ MB/sec, druhym 600-700 KB/sec. Pokud to jelo
> na stridacku, tak oba smery dosahly v pohode 1+ MB/sec. Zkousel jsem to FTP
> v TotalCmd proti linux. serveru. Zkousel jsem to samozrejme i cele otocit.
> Proste ten druhy, co zacal kopirovat pozdeji, tak mu to jelo pomaleji. Nema
> to proste 2 MB/s FD, ale jen tak 1,6 - 1,7.
> Mozna je problem ve Win ci FTP klientovi v TC nebo to proste nestihaji
> masiny (to jsem zkousel do toho svice na jednu stranu dat dva komply, jeden
> upload, druhy download, ale i tak to proste zaraz jelo min).
> Kdyby bylo neco v halfdupleu, tak by to jelo par desitek KB/sec, ale tohle
> je jiny problem.

When I tried between 2 Linux machines, I got 1250kB/s in both directions
of two simultaneous FTP transfers.  Maybe Windows have worse network
stack performance compared to Linux.

CL<

> 
> Cipis
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Karel Kulhavy" <clock at twibright.com>
> To: "Otakar Pycha" <cbedison at centrum.cz>
> Cc: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 12:09 PM
> Subject: Re: [Ronja] Ronja
> 
> 
> > On Wed, Oct 19, 2005 at 10:05:20AM +0200, Otakar Pycha wrote:
> > > Cau,
> > > s radosti musim oznamit, ze se nam o vikendu v Radotine povedlo spustit
> > > Ronja spoj na vzdalenost cca. 626 metru, mechanika je vlastni konstrukce
> > > 130mm (stejna jako ma kneza na Zbraslavi), RSSI na obou stranach okolo
> 3V..
> > >
> > > Ale mam jeden dotaz :-) Twister mame pripojen do switche, ktery jsme
> > > nastavili na 10Mbit (akorat se prepina FD/HD), a jede to jednim smerem
> > > 1,2MB/s, ale druhym jen 300kB/s... Cim to je ? Jedna strana je spatne
> > > nastavena (HD?)... Musi se ve twisteru prepinat ty jumpery kdyz je to
> > > pripojene ke  switchi ? Mame je prepnute jako kdyz je to pripojene k
> > > sitovce...
> >
> > Do you have some photoze?
> >
> > Yes switch the jumper like for switch that would be better. The
> > fact that it runs even when it's wired the other way suggests the
> > switch implements the dreaded auto MDI/MDI-X.
> >
> > Try switching off any full duplexes. Then the Ronja should run without
> > problems half duplex. If yes, then the problem is in software
> > configuration. Try packetloss as well and look for "crc errors" and
> > "framing errors" or how it is called, in ifconfig. If they increase
> > quickly then it's a sign of bad signal.
> >
> > CL<
> > >
> > >
> > > Diky,
> > >
> > > Edison Radotin
> > > http://www.edison-radotin.cz
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ronja mailing list
> > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From pavkriz at gybon.cz  Wed Oct 19 15:22:33 2005
From: pavkriz at gybon.cz (pavkriz@gybon.cz)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 16:22:33 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Ronja
In-Reply-To: <2863.10.107.1.60.1129725207.squirrel@charon.hkfree.org>
References: <4355FE40.3010601@centrum.cz> <20051019100909.GC9296@kestrel>
	<003601c5d4a2$1e481c80$3701a8c0@pwech01>
	<2863.10.107.1.60.1129725207.squirrel@charon.hkfree.org>
Message-ID: <20051019162233.du7br8sikasgwc0g@www.gybon.cz>

Je dobry ujistit se ze je zapnuty DMA, napr:
hdpard -d1 /dev/hda

Nebo tahat nejaky soubor co neni na disku (/dev/zero) nebo verit tomu, 
ze linux
natahne soubor poprve do pameti a drzi si ho tam v cachi pro dalsi pouziti,
takze na druhy a dalsi pokusy uz by to mohlo jet rychlejc (to asi zalezi kolik
ma kdo pameti) - myslim ze tohle tu popisoval konkretne clock, osobni
zkusenosti s touto featurou v souvislosti s Ronjou nemam.

Neni dobry testovat prenos pomoci SCP protoze sifrovani je pomerne narocny a
tudiz dosazitelnou rychlost vyznamne ovlivnuje (procesorovy) vykon 
stroje (obou
stroju mezi kterymi to bezi).

Zminovany jen uz jsem taky videl, v mem pripade co si pamatuju, tak to bylo o
sile signalu, proste kdyz se na koberci daly ty konce spoje bliz, tak ten jen
ustal a bylo to schopno jet 10mbit FD. (bylo to primo na sitovkach, ne 
switch).

Pavel
HKFree.org

> Mno tohle mi to dela taky a i bez zapojeni do switche... Zjistil sem ze mi
> nestihaji hardisky.
> Kdyz sem toto hodil na ostry provoz, a tlacil pres to realny provoz, vse
> jelo v pohode.
>
>> No ja mel podobny problem, kdyz jsem doma na koberci zkousel celou
>> sestavu,
>> na obou koncich upravene svice na 10M FD.
>> Zaraz to jelo jednim smerem 1+ MB/sec, druhym 600-700 KB/sec. Pokud to
>> jelo
>> na stridacku, tak oba smery dosahly v pohode 1+ MB/sec. Zkousel jsem to
>> FTP
>> v TotalCmd proti linux. serveru. Zkousel jsem to samozrejme i cele otocit.
>> Proste ten druhy, co zacal kopirovat pozdeji, tak mu to jelo pomaleji.
>> Nema
>> to proste 2 MB/s FD, ale jen tak 1,6 - 1,7.
>> Mozna je problem ve Win ci FTP klientovi v TC nebo to proste nestihaji
>> masiny (to jsem zkousel do toho svice na jednu stranu dat dva komply,
>> jeden
>> upload, druhy download, ale i tak to proste zaraz jelo min).
>> Kdyby bylo neco v halfdupleu, tak by to jelo par desitek KB/sec, ale tohle
>> je jiny problem.
>>
>> Cipis
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Karel Kulhavy" <clock at twibright.com>
>> To: "Otakar Pycha" <cbedison at centrum.cz>
>> Cc: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 12:09 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Ronja] Ronja
>>
>>
>>> On Wed, Oct 19, 2005 at 10:05:20AM +0200, Otakar Pycha wrote:
>>> > Cau,
>>> > s radosti musim oznamit, ze se nam o vikendu v Radotine povedlo
>>> spustit
>>> > Ronja spoj na vzdalenost cca. 626 metru, mechanika je vlastni
>>> konstrukce
>>> > 130mm (stejna jako ma kneza na Zbraslavi), RSSI na obou stranach okolo
>> 3V..
>>> >
>>> > Ale mam jeden dotaz :-) Twister mame pripojen do switche, ktery jsme
>>> > nastavili na 10Mbit (akorat se prepina FD/HD), a jede to jednim smerem
>>> > 1,2MB/s, ale druhym jen 300kB/s... Cim to je ? Jedna strana je spatne
>>> > nastavena (HD?)... Musi se ve twisteru prepinat ty jumpery kdyz je to
>>> > pripojene ke  switchi ? Mame je prepnute jako kdyz je to pripojene k
>>> > sitovce...
>>>
>>> Do you have some photoze?
>>>
>>> Yes switch the jumper like for switch that would be better. The
>>> fact that it runs even when it's wired the other way suggests the
>>> switch implements the dreaded auto MDI/MDI-X.
>>>
>>> Try switching off any full duplexes. Then the Ronja should run without
>>> problems half duplex. If yes, then the problem is in software
>>> configuration. Try packetloss as well and look for "crc errors" and
>>> "framing errors" or how it is called, in ifconfig. If they increase
>>> quickly then it's a sign of bad signal.
>>>
>>> CL<
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Diky,
>>> >
>>> > Edison Radotin
>>> > http://www.edison-radotin.cz
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Ronja mailing list
>>> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
>>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ronja mailing list
>> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
>> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>





From jakub.michnik at centrum.cz  Wed Oct 19 15:30:26 2005
From: jakub.michnik at centrum.cz (=?ISO-8859-2?Q?Jakub_Michn=EDk?=)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 16:30:26 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] VU metr
Message-ID: <43565882.7080008@centrum.cz>

zkousel uz nekdo pripojit VU metr (takovy ten obycejny rucickovy meracek 
z gm za 50,-) jako rssi merak? zajima me jenom jesi to ten vystup v 
pohode utahne...

dik


From giuseppe at arachne.cz  Thu Oct 20 02:53:06 2005
From: giuseppe at arachne.cz (giuseppe@arachne.cz)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 03:53:06 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Ronja] Ronja Digest, Vol 30, Issue 33
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3.1129719600.1081.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
References: <mailman.3.1129719600.1081.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
Message-ID: <52472.212.24.150.227.1129773186.squirrel@ssl.arachne.cz>

...tak mi to konecne funguje, ten oddelovaci transformator docela
pomohol...  pouzil som typ EPE6135  (zo starej isovej sietovky)

:oD  takze vam tu vo foru musim podakovat za pomoc  ;o)

slape mi to na 1.2 km, s  rezervou signalu....  este riesim lepsiu
mechaniku, aby signal nekolisal podla vetru, ale to uz mam v podstate
hotove, len ju treba dopravit do prahy...

prikladam nejake fotos plosakov...   tak zatim...  :oD
------------- dal?? ??st ---------------
Netextov? p??loha byla odstran?na...
Jm?no: prijimac.jpg
Typ: image/jpeg
Velikost: 401185 bytes
Popis: [??dn? popis nen? k dispozici]
Url : http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20051020/e968612c/prijimac-0001.jpg
------------- dal?? ??st ---------------
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Jm?no: vysielac.jpg
Typ: image/jpeg
Velikost: 396452 bytes
Popis: [??dn? popis nen? k dispozici]
Url : http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20051020/e968612c/vysielac-0001.jpg
------------- dal?? ??st ---------------
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Typ: image/jpeg
Velikost: 442303 bytes
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------------- dal?? ??st ---------------
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From clock at twibright.com  Thu Oct 20 10:00:07 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 11:00:07 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Zvlastni rx
In-Reply-To: <opsyonw8yun6qjls@daman>
References: <opsylqxd1wn6qjls@daman> <20051014203414.GA5050@kestrel>
	<opsyonw8yun6qjls@daman>
Message-ID: <20051020090007.GB32174@kestrel>

On Sat, Oct 15, 2005 at 10:40:10AM -0000, Daniel Strnad wrote:
> On Fri, 14 Oct 2005 22:34:14 +0200, Karel Kulhavy <clock at twibright.com>  
> wrote:
> > R106 is the one in the drain of Q101 transistor?
> >
> > Maybe you managed to kill the transistor somehow. Try replacing it and
> > trying again.
> 
> Vzdyt pisu ze uz jsem ho vymenil.

Hm then I don't know where the problem can be - what was the problem
actually? I can't find it in the e-mail history.

CL<
> 
> >
> > I plan to change the guide so that you first build without R106, then
> > measure current with milliamperemeter, and then select the resistor
> > for the first try without having to unsolder R106 at all. This should
> > minimize the risk of damaging the transistor.
> >
> > CL<
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ronja mailing list
> > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From clock at twibright.com  Thu Oct 20 10:00:29 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 11:00:29 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] chyba na webu
In-Reply-To: <200510132034.j9DKYtp05589@twin.jikos.cz>
References: <200510132034.j9DKYtp05589@twin.jikos.cz>
Message-ID: <20051020090029.GC32174@kestrel>

On Thu, Oct 13, 2005 at 10:35:03PM +0200, Luk?? Burian wrote:
> Na str?nce http://ronja.twibright.com/twister/material_cz.php chyb? "A" u
> ekvivalent? DS26LS32. (v anglick? verzi je to dob?e).

Thanks, fixed.

CL<


From clock at twibright.com  Thu Oct 20 12:12:28 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 13:12:28 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Ronja Digest, Vol 30, Issue 33
In-Reply-To: <52472.212.24.150.227.1129773186.squirrel@ssl.arachne.cz>
References: <mailman.3.1129719600.1081.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
	<52472.212.24.150.227.1129773186.squirrel@ssl.arachne.cz>
Message-ID: <20051020111228.GB22306@kestrel>

On Thu, Oct 20, 2005 at 03:53:06AM +0200, giuseppe at arachne.cz wrote:
> ...tak mi to konecne funguje, ten oddelovaci transformator docela
> pomohol...  pouzil som typ EPE6135  (zo starej isovej sietovky)
> 
> :oD  takze vam tu vo foru musim podakovat za pomoc  ;o)
> 
> slape mi to na 1.2 km, s  rezervou signalu....  este riesim lepsiu
> mechaniku, aby signal nekolisal podla vetru, ale to uz mam v podstate
> hotove, len ju treba dopravit do prahy...

Je ta instalace jiz v galerii? Pokud ne, muzu ji do galerie pridat?

CL<
> 
> prikladam nejake fotos plosakov...   tak zatim...  :oD




> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja



From Funky at seznam.cz  Thu Oct 20 15:04:45 2005
From: Funky at seznam.cz (Funky)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 16:04:45 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Ronja] Jaky managovatelny switch ?
Message-ID: <7143.12848-31726-1856988842-1129817085@seznam.cz>

Ahoj,

poradi mi nekdo jaky levny managovatelny switch pouzivate s twistrem ? potrebuji aby umel i VLANy a 802.1q trunking. Zajima me jake kdo mate osvecene vyrobce/modely, projit ceniky a datasheety umim :-)

diky
Jindra "Funky" Pesak


HI,
could anyone advise which managed switch to use with twister ? The switch should be capable of VLAN and 802.1q trunking and it should be also cheap

thanks


From srnkap at extranetplus.cz  Thu Oct 20 18:10:53 2005
From: srnkap at extranetplus.cz (Pavel Srnka)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 19:10:53 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Jaky managovatelny switch ?
References: <7143.12848-31726-1856988842-1129817085@seznam.cz>
Message-ID: <001601c5d599$3a931f00$f2464d3e@s566mzp1m0>

myslim ovislink dela 8port za peknou cenu prodavaji ho na i4.cz

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Funky" <Funky at seznam.cz>
To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2005 4:04 PM
Subject: [Ronja] Jaky managovatelny switch ?


> Ahoj,
>
> poradi mi nekdo jaky levny managovatelny switch pouzivate s twistrem ? 
> potrebuji aby umel i VLANy a 802.1q trunking. Zajima me jake kdo mate 
> osvecene vyrobce/modely, projit ceniky a datasheety umim :-)
>
> diky
> Jindra "Funky" Pesak
>
>
> HI,
> could anyone advise which managed switch to use with twister ? The switch 
> should be capable of VLAN and 802.1q trunking and it should be also cheap
>
> thanks
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja 



From kendy at hkfree.org  Thu Oct 20 18:56:49 2005
From: kendy at hkfree.org (Kendy - HKFree)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 19:56:49 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Ronja Digest, Vol 30, Issue 33
In-Reply-To: <20051020111228.GB22306@kestrel>
References: <mailman.3.1129719600.1081.ronja@lists.pointless.net>	<52472.212.24.150.227.1129773186.squirrel@ssl.arachne.cz>
	<20051020111228.GB22306@kestrel>
Message-ID: <4357DA61.1080600@hkfree.org>

:o) ty umis i cesky :)))


JOKINGLY .)))




PS: Doufam ze sem te neurazil, jestli ano, tak se rovnou omlouvam a uz 
priste budu mlcet :))

Karel Kulhavy napsal(a):

> On Thu, Oct 20, 2005 at 03:53:06AM +0200, giuseppe at arachne.cz wrote:
> 
>>...tak mi to konecne funguje, ten oddelovaci transformator docela
>>pomohol...  pouzil som typ EPE6135  (zo starej isovej sietovky)
>>
>>:oD  takze vam tu vo foru musim podakovat za pomoc  ;o)
>>
>>slape mi to na 1.2 km, s  rezervou signalu....  este riesim lepsiu
>>mechaniku, aby signal nekolisal podla vetru, ale to uz mam v podstate
>>hotove, len ju treba dopravit do prahy...
> 
> 
> Je ta instalace jiz v galerii? Pokud ne, muzu ji do galerie pridat?
> 
> CL<
> 
>>prikladam nejake fotos plosakov...   tak zatim...  :oD
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>>_______________________________________________
>>Ronja mailing list
>>Ronja at lists.pointless.net
>>http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 


From cd930 at centrum.cz  Fri Oct 21 07:57:13 2005
From: cd930 at centrum.cz (-=RYS=-)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 08:57:13 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Ronja
Message-ID: <200510210857.20812@centrum.cz>

U me taky.
Stolni PC (W98/P3/256RAM/30GB IDE HD) v pohode obema smery 1.1MB/s .
Ale muj notes (XP/P4/512MBRAM/40GB IDE HD) obema smery to spadne.
Z notesu do PC to jede 800kB/s a obracene 1.1MB/s.
Na druhe strane je Linux FTP.
-=RYS=-

______________________________________________________________
> Od: kendy at hkfree.org
> Komu: ronja at lists.pointless.net
> CC: 
> Datum: 19.10.2005 14:34
> P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Ronja
>
> Mno tohle mi to dela taky a i bez zapojeni do switche... Zjistil sem ze mi
> nestihaji hardisky.
> Kdyz sem toto hodil na ostry provoz, a tlacil pres to realny provoz, vse
> jelo v pohode.
> 
> > No ja mel podobny problem, kdyz jsem doma na koberci zkousel celou
> > sestavu,
> > na obou koncich upravene svice na 10M FD.
> > Zaraz to jelo jednim smerem 1+ MB/sec, druhym 600-700 KB/sec. Pokud to
> > jelo
> > na stridacku, tak oba smery dosahly v pohode 1+ MB/sec. Zkousel jsem to
> > FTP
> > v TotalCmd proti linux. serveru. Zkousel jsem to samozrejme i cele
> otocit.
> > Proste ten druhy, co zacal kopirovat pozdeji, tak mu to jelo pomaleji.
> > Nema
> > to proste 2 MB/s FD, ale jen tak 1,6 - 1,7.
> > Mozna je problem ve Win ci FTP klientovi v TC nebo to proste nestihaji
> > masiny (to jsem zkousel do toho svice na jednu stranu dat dva komply,
> > jeden
> > upload, druhy download, ale i tak to proste zaraz jelo min).
> > Kdyby bylo neco v halfdupleu, tak by to jelo par desitek KB/sec, ale
> tohle
> > je jiny problem.
> >
> > Cipis
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Karel Kulhavy" 
> > To: "Otakar Pycha" 
> > Cc: "Twibright Ronja" 
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 12:09 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Ronja] Ronja
> >
> >
> >> On Wed, Oct 19, 2005 at 10:05:20AM +0200, Otakar Pycha wrote:
> >> > Cau,
> >> > s radosti musim oznamit, ze se nam o vikendu v Radotine povedlo
> >> spustit
> >> > Ronja spoj na vzdalenost cca. 626 metru, mechanika je vlastni
> >> konstrukce
> >> > 130mm (stejna jako ma kneza na Zbraslavi), RSSI na obou stranach
> okolo
> > 3V..
> >> >
> >> > Ale mam jeden dotaz :-) Twister mame pripojen do switche, ktery jsme
> >> > nastavili na 10Mbit (akorat se prepina FD/HD), a jede to jednim
> smerem
> >> > 1,2MB/s, ale druhym jen 300kB/s... Cim to je ? Jedna strana je spatne
> >> > nastavena (HD?)... Musi se ve twisteru prepinat ty jumpery kdyz je to
> >> > pripojene ke switchi ? Mame je prepnute jako kdyz je to pripojene k
> >> > sitovce...
> >>
> >> Do you have some photoze?
> >>
> >> Yes switch the jumper like for switch that would be better. The
> >> fact that it runs even when it's wired the other way suggests the
> >> switch implements the dreaded auto MDI/MDI-X.
> >>
> >> Try switching off any full duplexes. Then the Ronja should run without
> >> problems half duplex. If yes, then the problem is in software
> >> configuration. Try packetloss as well and look for "crc errors" and
> >> "framing errors" or how it is called, in ifconfig. If they increase
> >> quickly then it's a sign of bad signal.
> >>
> >> CL<
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Diky,
> >> >
> >> > Edison Radotin
> >> > http://www.edison-radotin.cz
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Ronja mailing list
> >> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> >> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ronja mailing list
> > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> >
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 


------------- dal?? ??st ---------------
HTML p??loha byla odstran?na...
URL: http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20051021/db300c33/attachment.html

From cd930 at centrum.cz  Fri Oct 21 08:00:07 2005
From: cd930 at centrum.cz (-=RYS=-)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 09:00:07 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] VU metr
Message-ID: <200510210900.21346@centrum.cz>

Chodi, ale musis tam dat trimr, abys neznicil budik.
-=RYS=-

______________________________________________________________
> Od: jakub.michnik at centrum.cz
> Komu: ronja at lists.pointless.net
> CC: 
> Datum: 19.10.2005 16:31
> P?edm?t: [Ronja] VU metr
>
> zkousel uz nekdo pripojit VU metr (takovy ten obycejny rucickovy meracek 
> z gm za 50,-) jako rssi merak? zajima me jenom jesi to ten vystup v 
> pohode utahne...
> 
> dik
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 




From polous at katka.biz  Fri Oct 21 11:55:37 2005
From: polous at katka.biz (Martin Polehla)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 12:55:37 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Ronja - mereni rychlosti
In-Reply-To: <20051019140619.GB19624@kestrel>
References: <4355FE40.3010601@centrum.cz>
	<20051019100909.GC9296@kestrel>	<003601c5d4a2$1e481c80$3701a8c0@pwech01>
	<20051019140619.GB19624@kestrel>
Message-ID: <4358C929.80904@katka.biz>

Na mereni rychlosti je  mozny pouzit treba tcpspray.


p0l0us

>
> When I tried between 2 Linux machines, I got 1250kB/s in both
> directions of two simultaneous FTP transfers. Maybe Windows have
> worse network stack performance compared to Linux.
>
> CL<
>
>> Cipis
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karel Kulhavy"
>> <clock at twibright.com> To: "Otakar Pycha" <cbedison at centrum.cz>
>> Cc: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja at lists.pointless.net> Sent:
>> Wednesday, October 19, 2005 12:09 PM Subject: Re: [Ronja] Ronja
>>
>>
>>> On Wed, Oct 19, 2005 at 10:05:20AM +0200, Otakar Pycha wrote:
>>>
>>>> Cau, s radosti musim oznamit, ze se nam o vikendu v Radotine
>>>> povedlo spustit Ronja spoj na vzdalenost cca. 626 metru,
>>>> mechanika je vlastni konstrukce 130mm (stejna jako ma kneza
>>>> na Zbraslavi), RSSI na obou stranach okolo
>>
>> 3V..
>>
>>>> Ale mam jeden dotaz :-) Twister mame pripojen do switche,
>>>> ktery jsme nastavili na 10Mbit (akorat se prepina FD/HD), a
>>>> jede to jednim smerem 1,2MB/s, ale druhym jen 300kB/s... Cim
>>>> to je ? Jedna strana je spatne nastavena (HD?)... Musi se ve
>>>> twisteru prepinat ty jumpery kdyz je to pripojene ke switchi
>>>> ? Mame je prepnute jako kdyz je to pripojene k sitovce...
>>>
>>> Do you have some photoze?
>>>
>>> Yes switch the jumper like for switch that would be better. The
>>> fact that it runs even when it's wired the other way suggests
>>> the switch implements the dreaded auto MDI/MDI-X.
>>>
>>> Try switching off any full duplexes. Then the Ronja should run
>>> without problems half duplex. If yes, then the problem is in
>>> software configuration. Try packetloss as well and look for
>>> "crc errors" and "framing errors" or how it is called, in
>>> ifconfig. If they increase quickly then it's a sign of bad
>>> signal.
>>>
>>> CL<
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Diky,
>>>>
>>>> Edison Radotin http://www.edison-radotin.cz




From clock at twibright.com  Fri Oct 21 18:05:32 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 19:05:32 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Ronja - mereni rychlosti
In-Reply-To: <4358C929.80904@katka.biz>
References: <4355FE40.3010601@centrum.cz> <20051019100909.GC9296@kestrel>
	<003601c5d4a2$1e481c80$3701a8c0@pwech01>
	<20051019140619.GB19624@kestrel> <4358C929.80904@katka.biz>
Message-ID: <20051021170532.GC5380@kestrel>

On Fri, Oct 21, 2005 at 12:55:37PM +0200, Martin Polehla wrote:
> Na mereni rychlosti je  mozny pouzit treba tcpspray.

TCP spray can be refilled using TCP liquid:
http://images.twibright.com/tns/1ba7.html

CL<
> 
> 
> p0l0us
> 
> >
> > When I tried between 2 Linux machines, I got 1250kB/s in both
> > directions of two simultaneous FTP transfers. Maybe Windows have
> > worse network stack performance compared to Linux.
> >
> > CL<
> >
> >> Cipis
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karel Kulhavy"
> >> <clock at twibright.com> To: "Otakar Pycha" <cbedison at centrum.cz>
> >> Cc: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja at lists.pointless.net> Sent:
> >> Wednesday, October 19, 2005 12:09 PM Subject: Re: [Ronja] Ronja
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Wed, Oct 19, 2005 at 10:05:20AM +0200, Otakar Pycha wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Cau, s radosti musim oznamit, ze se nam o vikendu v Radotine
> >>>> povedlo spustit Ronja spoj na vzdalenost cca. 626 metru,
> >>>> mechanika je vlastni konstrukce 130mm (stejna jako ma kneza
> >>>> na Zbraslavi), RSSI na obou stranach okolo
> >>
> >> 3V..
> >>
> >>>> Ale mam jeden dotaz :-) Twister mame pripojen do switche,
> >>>> ktery jsme nastavili na 10Mbit (akorat se prepina FD/HD), a
> >>>> jede to jednim smerem 1,2MB/s, ale druhym jen 300kB/s... Cim
> >>>> to je ? Jedna strana je spatne nastavena (HD?)... Musi se ve
> >>>> twisteru prepinat ty jumpery kdyz je to pripojene ke switchi
> >>>> ? Mame je prepnute jako kdyz je to pripojene k sitovce...
> >>>
> >>> Do you have some photoze?
> >>>
> >>> Yes switch the jumper like for switch that would be better. The
> >>> fact that it runs even when it's wired the other way suggests
> >>> the switch implements the dreaded auto MDI/MDI-X.
> >>>
> >>> Try switching off any full duplexes. Then the Ronja should run
> >>> without problems half duplex. If yes, then the problem is in
> >>> software configuration. Try packetloss as well and look for
> >>> "crc errors" and "framing errors" or how it is called, in
> >>> ifconfig. If they increase quickly then it's a sign of bad
> >>> signal.
> >>>
> >>> CL<
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Diky,
> >>>>
> >>>> Edison Radotin http://www.edison-radotin.cz
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From clock at twibright.com  Fri Oct 21 19:43:40 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 20:43:40 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Ronja Digest, Vol 30, Issue 33
In-Reply-To: <52472.212.24.150.227.1129773186.squirrel@ssl.arachne.cz>
References: <mailman.3.1129719600.1081.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
	<52472.212.24.150.227.1129773186.squirrel@ssl.arachne.cz>
Message-ID: <20051021184340.GB30237@kestrel>

On Thu, Oct 20, 2005 at 03:53:06AM +0200, giuseppe at arachne.cz wrote:
> ...tak mi to konecne funguje, ten oddelovaci transformator docela
> pomohol...  pouzil som typ EPE6135  (zo starej isovej sietovky)
> 
> :oD  takze vam tu vo foru musim podakovat za pomoc  ;o)
> 
> slape mi to na 1.2 km, s  rezervou signalu....  este riesim lepsiu
> mechaniku, aby signal nekolisal podla vetru, ale to uz mam v podstate
> hotove, len ju treba dopravit do prahy...
> 
> prikladam nejake fotos plosakov...   tak zatim...  :oD

Diky za foto dal jsem je do galerie fotek elektroniky. Muze to bejt
pod GFDL?

CL<


From zajio1am at artax.karlin.mff.cuni.cz  Sat Oct 22 13:44:43 2005
From: zajio1am at artax.karlin.mff.cuni.cz (Ondrej Zajicek)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 14:44:43 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Chyba v TX schematu
Message-ID: <20051022124443.GA2339@localhost.localdomain>

Ahoj

Ta jednociferna cisla u hradel v schematu TX maji udavat cislo nozicky
integrovaneho obvodu? Potom je tam chyba - vetsina jich ma hodnotu 1 nebo 2.
Na starem schematu (15-9-2004) to je spravne.

Co je to rim1 - rim10 ? Ve zbytku navodu jsem o tom nic nenasel.

-- 
Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo

Ondrej 'SanTiago' Zajicek (email: santiago at mail.cz, jabber: santiago at njs.netlab.cz)
OpenPGP encrypted e-mails preferred (KeyID 0x11DEADC3, wwwkeys.pgp.net)
"To err is human -- to blame it on a computer is even more so."
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From daniel.strnad at tiscali.cz  Sat Oct 22 16:37:14 2005
From: daniel.strnad at tiscali.cz (Daniel Strnad)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 15:37:14 -0000
Subject: [Ronja] Chyba v TX schematu
In-Reply-To: <20051022124443.GA2339@localhost.localdomain>
References: <20051022124443.GA2339@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <opsy10ccmin6qjls@daman>

Ty rimy to je kvuli ohraniceni tistaku aby se dobre pajel do krabicky. V  
tom schematu je to asi proto, aby se dobre prevadelo mezi gschemem a PCB.  
To ocislovani vyvodu je asi fakt blbe.

On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 14:44:43 +0200, Ondrej Zajicek  
<zajio1am at artax.karlin.mff.cuni.cz> wrote:

> Ahoj
>
> Ta jednociferna cisla u hradel v schematu TX maji udavat cislo nozicky
> integrovaneho obvodu? Potom je tam chyba - vetsina jich ma hodnotu 1  
> nebo 2.
> Na starem schematu (15-9-2004) to je spravne.
>
> Co je to rim1 - rim10 ? Ve zbytku navodu jsem o tom nic nenasel.


From srnkap at extranetplus.cz  Sat Oct 22 16:34:08 2005
From: srnkap at extranetplus.cz (Pavel Srnka)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 17:34:08 +0200
Subject: =?iso-8859-2?Q?Re:_=5BRonja=5D_probl=E9m_s_twistery?=
References: <002d01c592d0$abe03e60$40e35ad4@lokodepotuhoun>	<42E7C654.4070800@centrum.cz><20050804072853.GD22092@kestrel>
	<42F255D2.4050904@centrum.cz>
Message-ID: <000a01c5d71e$0b171520$f2464d3e@s566mzp1m0>

zdravim do konfery,
mam nasledujici problem a chtel bych pekne poprosit o radu.
osadil jsme dva twistery , ale u jednoho jsme bohuzel otocil oscilatod dil14 
opacne nacez se po zapnuti napajeni zacalo kourit z rezistoru R55 a svitili 
vsechny ledky, po otoceni svaba se z rezisoru necmoudi ale switi porad 
cervena ledka spolu se zlutou pwr coz by nemelo. na kolik je pravdepodobne 
ze jsem odkouril oscilator ? rezistor ma porad nominalni hodnotu 3,xV.
Nemohlo odejitneco jineho?

diky !


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jakub Michn?k" <jakub.michnik at centrum.cz>
To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 7:52 PM
Subject: Re: [Ronja] probl?m s twistery




Karel Kulhavy napsal(a):
> On Wed, Jul 27, 2005 at 07:37:24PM +0200, Jakub Michn?k wrote:
>
>>tak podle toho co pises je to to same co sem udelal dneska ja. vymen v 
>>twistrech 22p kondiky za 33p. ja sem taky 2 twistry postavil a nejel ani 
>>jeden. vymenil sem kondiky na jednom a jel. na druhem sem vymenil jenom 
>>jeden a jelo to. vcera sme to (asi po pul roce lezeni na skrini) 
>>nainstalovali a nejelo. taky mam prosly asi 2 pakety z 5ti. vymenil sem i 
>>ten druhy kondik a heureca. nez sem to nainstaloval tak sem asi 10x hledal 
>>chybu a nevedel cim to je. nekdy to chodilo, nekdy proslo jenom neco, 
>>nekdy nic ....
>
>
> Didn't you have 74HC14 instead of 74HCT14?

uz sem to tu odpovidal. nevim co tam bylo, uz to tu nemam, ale ma pocit
ze HC ...

>
> CL<
>
>>Martin Posp??il napsal(a):
>>
>>>Zdrav?m v?echny na konferenci.
>>>Pot?eboval bych pomoct/poradit s t?mto probl?mem:
>>>
>>>Kompletn? sem postavil tetrapolis a v?e fungovalo na stole (bez 
>>>?o?ek).Max. dosah byl sice asi 1m ale chodilo to.
>>>N?jakou dobu nebyl ?as na konstrukci trubek tak to chv?li le?elo.Zhruba 
>>>po dvou t?dnech to znovu zkou??m a nic!
>>>Dlouho jsem hledal zavadu v p??jma??ch a vys?la??ch a kdy?
>>>jsem p??mo propojil twistery rx-tx  a  tx-rx  tak jsem zjistil ?e
>>>neprojde ani jeden paket.Hledal jsem upaden? dr?t-m?m vzdu?nou 
>>>konstrukci-ale nic jsem nena?el.V zoufal? snaze
>>>probl?m naj?t jsem podez?el? twister rozebral a? na stabiliz?tor,logick? 
>>>obvody p?ezkou?el log.sondou a znovu slo?il.Te? sem tam n?jak? paket 
>>>projde,je to velice n?hodn?.
>>>N?kdy je ztr?tovost 45%,jindy 89%. Osciloskop nem?m a
>>>nev?m kde by mohla b?t chyba.P?ezkou?el jsem zda nem?m p?elomen? TP 
>>>kabely z twister? ale jsou v po??dku.
>>>P?edem d?kuji za jakoukoliv pomoc.
>>>
>>>
>>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Ronja mailing list
>>>Ronja at lists.pointless.net
>>>http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>>>
>>>
>>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>>>Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.5/58 - Release Date: 25.7.2005
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Ronja mailing list
>>Ronja at lists.pointless.net
>>http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>
>
>

_______________________________________________
Ronja mailing list
Ronja at lists.pointless.net
http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja 



From clock at twibright.com  Sat Oct 22 20:56:41 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 21:56:41 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Chyba v TX schematu
In-Reply-To: <20051022124443.GA2339@localhost.localdomain>
References: <20051022124443.GA2339@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <20051022195641.GA18937@kestrel>

On Sat, Oct 22, 2005 at 02:44:43PM +0200, Ondrej Zajicek wrote:
> Ahoj
> 
> Ta jednociferna cisla u hradel v schematu TX maji udavat cislo nozicky
> integrovaneho obvodu? Potom je tam chyba - vetsina jich ma hodnotu 1 nebo 2.
> Na starem schematu (15-9-2004) to je spravne.

Thanks, fixed

> 
> Co je to rim1 - rim10 ? Ve zbytku navodu jsem o tom nic nenasel.

These are rims of PCB for soldering into box. They are there because of
the PCB.

CL<
> 
> -- 
> Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo
> 
> Ondrej 'SanTiago' Zajicek (email: santiago at mail.cz, jabber: santiago at njs.netlab.cz)
> OpenPGP encrypted e-mails preferred (KeyID 0x11DEADC3, wwwkeys.pgp.net)
> "To err is human -- to blame it on a computer is even more so."



> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja



From clock at twibright.com  Sat Oct 22 20:58:15 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 21:58:15 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] =?iso-8859-1?Q?probl=E9?=
	=?iso-8859-1?Q?m?= s twistery
In-Reply-To: <000a01c5d71e$0b171520$f2464d3e@s566mzp1m0>
References: <002d01c592d0$abe03e60$40e35ad4@lokodepotuhoun>
	<42F255D2.4050904@centrum.cz>
	<000a01c5d71e$0b171520$f2464d3e@s566mzp1m0>
Message-ID: <20051022195815.GA19437@kestrel>

On Sat, Oct 22, 2005 at 05:34:08PM +0200, Pavel Srnka wrote:
> zdravim do konfery,
> mam nasledujici problem a chtel bych pekne poprosit o radu.
> osadil jsme dva twistery , ale u jednoho jsme bohuzel otocil oscilatod dil14 
> opacne nacez se po zapnuti napajeni zacalo kourit z rezistoru R55 a svitili 
> vsechny ledky, po otoceni svaba se z rezisoru necmoudi ale switi porad 
> cervena ledka spolu se zlutou pwr coz by nemelo. na kolik je pravdepodobne 
> ze jsem odkouril oscilator ? rezistor ma porad nominalni hodnotu 3,xV.

Dost pravdepodobne.

> Nemohlo odejitneco jineho?

Mohlo

CL<
> 
> diky !
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Jakub Michn?k" <jakub.michnik at centrum.cz>
> To: "Twibright Ronja" <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
> Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 7:52 PM
> Subject: Re: [Ronja] probl?m s twistery
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Karel Kulhavy napsal(a):
> > On Wed, Jul 27, 2005 at 07:37:24PM +0200, Jakub Michn?k wrote:
> >
> >>tak podle toho co pises je to to same co sem udelal dneska ja. vymen v 
> >>twistrech 22p kondiky za 33p. ja sem taky 2 twistry postavil a nejel ani 
> >>jeden. vymenil sem kondiky na jednom a jel. na druhem sem vymenil jenom 
> >>jeden a jelo to. vcera sme to (asi po pul roce lezeni na skrini) 
> >>nainstalovali a nejelo. taky mam prosly asi 2 pakety z 5ti. vymenil sem i 
> >>ten druhy kondik a heureca. nez sem to nainstaloval tak sem asi 10x hledal 
> >>chybu a nevedel cim to je. nekdy to chodilo, nekdy proslo jenom neco, 
> >>nekdy nic ....
> >
> >
> > Didn't you have 74HC14 instead of 74HCT14?
> 
> uz sem to tu odpovidal. nevim co tam bylo, uz to tu nemam, ale ma pocit
> ze HC ...
> 
> >
> > CL<
> >
> >>Martin Posp??il napsal(a):
> >>
> >>>Zdrav?m v?echny na konferenci.
> >>>Pot?eboval bych pomoct/poradit s t?mto probl?mem:
> >>>
> >>>Kompletn? sem postavil tetrapolis a v?e fungovalo na stole (bez 
> >>>?o?ek).Max. dosah byl sice asi 1m ale chodilo to.
> >>>N?jakou dobu nebyl ?as na konstrukci trubek tak to chv?li le?elo.Zhruba 
> >>>po dvou t?dnech to znovu zkou??m a nic!
> >>>Dlouho jsem hledal zavadu v p??jma??ch a vys?la??ch a kdy?
> >>>jsem p??mo propojil twistery rx-tx  a  tx-rx  tak jsem zjistil ?e
> >>>neprojde ani jeden paket.Hledal jsem upaden? dr?t-m?m vzdu?nou 
> >>>konstrukci-ale nic jsem nena?el.V zoufal? snaze
> >>>probl?m naj?t jsem podez?el? twister rozebral a? na stabiliz?tor,logick? 
> >>>obvody p?ezkou?el log.sondou a znovu slo?il.Te? sem tam n?jak? paket 
> >>>projde,je to velice n?hodn?.
> >>>N?kdy je ztr?tovost 45%,jindy 89%. Osciloskop nem?m a
> >>>nev?m kde by mohla b?t chyba.P?ezkou?el jsem zda nem?m p?elomen? TP 
> >>>kabely z twister? ale jsou v po??dku.
> >>>P?edem d?kuji za jakoukoliv pomoc.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>
> >>>_______________________________________________
> >>>Ronja mailing list
> >>>Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> >>>http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>
> >>>No virus found in this incoming message.
> >>>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> >>>Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.5/58 - Release Date: 25.7.2005
> >>
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>Ronja mailing list
> >>Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> >>http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ronja mailing list
> > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> >
> >
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From clock at twibright.com  Sun Oct 23 08:44:39 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 09:44:39 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] ENhanced holder guide
Message-ID: <20051023074439.GA21465@kestrel>

I have enhanced the holder guide with a lot of descriptive photographs:
http://ronja.twibright.com/holder/building.php

CL<


From clock at twibright.com  Sun Oct 23 12:11:32 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 13:11:32 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Enhanced 130mm tubular head
Message-ID: <20051023111132.GA28245@kestrel>

I enhanced the 130mm tubular head building guide by including lots of
photos:
http://ronja.twibright.com/tubular_head_130/building.php

Could anyone please translate the page into Czech? I don't have time :(
It's 2 files:
http://ronja-svn.wservices.ch/report/file/trunk/tubular_head_130/building.php
http://ronja-svn.wservices.ch/report/file/trunk/tubular_head_130/silicagel.php

CL<


From clock at twibright.com  Sun Oct 23 13:23:49 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 14:23:49 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Enhanced cabling building guide
Message-ID: <20051023122349.GA29714@kestrel>

http://ronja.twibright.com/cabling/building.php
and fixed mounting:
http://ronja.twibright.com/cabling/mounting.php

If anyone could please upgrade Czech translation (there have been changes also
in the text), here are the sources:
http://ronja-svn.wservices.ch/report/file/trunk/cabling/building.php
http://ronja-svn.wservices.ch/report/file/trunk/cabling/mounting.php

CL<


From clock at twibright.com  Sun Oct 23 17:46:27 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 18:46:27 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] libraries for PCB
Message-ID: <20051023164627.GA31955@kestrel>

I am currently coaxing someone to redraw printed boards for Ronja he
designed in Orcad in PCB and he asks how many libraries there are for
PCB.

I say that those shipped with the program and he says that it won't be
much (which is true) and that it is more work to draw all the missing
library elements than doing it in a different program.

Why doesn't PCB webpage have also web submit feature like gschem?
For example when I asked for BF988 element here, it was immediately sent
to me by someone, but it isn't shipped with the program. This way there
is a lot of elements which are locked down on someone's harddisk and
they are not available for the public.

He also asks "if there is a manual so one doesn't have to permanently
work in a trial-error way or pestering people around". Is PCB manual of
this kind? Last time I remember the file format descriptions were
horribly obsolete.

CL<


From clock at twibright.com  Sun Oct 23 21:42:09 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 22:42:09 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] paypal donations using credit cards
Message-ID: <20051023204209.GA1417@kestrel>

How many people would like to send paypal donations using credit cards?
Does anyone please have enough knowledge around Paypal to be able to
predict this?

If I select Personal Paypal account, I can receive money for free, but
people cannot send using credit card. If I select Premier account,
people can send from credit cards, but it costs extra 3.4%+0.35EUR

CL<


From clock at twibright.com  Mon Oct 24 08:35:11 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 09:35:11 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] your mail
In-Reply-To: <000401c5d822$7c87a800$9664000a@max>
References: <000601c5d80d$f8ddff40$9664000a@max>
	<20051023214515.GA19849@kestrel>
	<000401c5d822$7c87a800$9664000a@max>
Message-ID: <20051024073511.GA25301@kestrel>

On Mon, Oct 24, 2005 at 12:38:27AM +0200, Max wrote:
> Takze ty DPS TX zatim nejde nikde sehnat ? libi se mi rozdhodne vic nez 

Nevim o nikom kdo by je prodaval.

> delat hnizdo nebo s SMD, takze asi doporucujes udelat hnizdovym zpusobem ? 

Dokud to nekdo nezacne prodavat, tak jo. A nebo si to nechat vyrobit
pro sebe.

CL<
> MaX 


From lucasvo at gmx.ch  Mon Oct 24 10:19:33 2005
From: lucasvo at gmx.ch (Lucas Vogelsang)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 11:19:33 +0200 (MEST)
Subject: [Ronja] paypal donations using credit cards
References: <20051023204209.GA1417@kestrel>
Message-ID: <12508.1130145573@www55.gmx.net>

Hi,


As far as I know this Premium account allows people to pay with creditcard
without having a paypal account.

You only need this for people who want to give you money over creditcard.
But when people want to donate with paypal, they mean that they have a
paypal account.

Lucas

> --- Urspr?ngliche Nachricht ---
> Von: Karel Kulhavy <clock at twibright.com>
> An: Twibright Ronja <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
> Betreff: [Ronja] paypal donations using credit cards
> Datum: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 22:42:09 +0200
> 
> How many people would like to send paypal donations using credit cards?
> Does anyone please have enough knowledge around Paypal to be able to
> predict this?
> 
> If I select Personal Paypal account, I can receive money for free, but
> people cannot send using credit card. If I select Premier account,
> people can send from credit cards, but it costs extra 3.4%+0.35EUR
> 
> CL<
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 

-- 
Highspeed-Freiheit. Bei GMX superg?nstig, z.B. GMX DSL_Cityflat,
DSL-Flatrate f?r nur 4,99 Euro/Monat*  http://www.gmx.net/de/go/dsl


From clock at twibright.com  Mon Oct 24 11:36:41 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 12:36:41 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] paypal donations using credit cards
In-Reply-To: <12508.1130145573@www55.gmx.net>
References: <20051023204209.GA1417@kestrel> <12508.1130145573@www55.gmx.net>
Message-ID: <20051024103641.GA28605@kestrel>

On Mon, Oct 24, 2005 at 11:19:33AM +0200, Lucas Vogelsang wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> 
> As far as I know this Premium account allows people to pay with creditcard
> without having a paypal account.
> 
> You only need this for people who want to give you money over creditcard.
> But when people want to donate with paypal, they mean that they have a
> paypal account.

How many people do have paypal account? How do they transfer money into
paypal? From their account using in-land wire money transfer?

CL<
> 
> Lucas
> 
> > --- Urspr?ngliche Nachricht ---
> > Von: Karel Kulhavy <clock at twibright.com>
> > An: Twibright Ronja <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
> > Betreff: [Ronja] paypal donations using credit cards
> > Datum: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 22:42:09 +0200
> > 
> > How many people would like to send paypal donations using credit cards?
> > Does anyone please have enough knowledge around Paypal to be able to
> > predict this?
> > 
> > If I select Personal Paypal account, I can receive money for free, but
> > people cannot send using credit card. If I select Premier account,
> > people can send from credit cards, but it costs extra 3.4%+0.35EUR
> > 
> > CL<
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ronja mailing list
> > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> > 
> 
> -- 
> Highspeed-Freiheit. Bei GMX superg?nstig, z.B. GMX DSL_Cityflat,
> DSL-Flatrate f?r nur 4,99 Euro/Monat*  http://www.gmx.net/de/go/dsl
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja


From lucasvo at gmx.ch  Mon Oct 24 13:20:49 2005
From: lucasvo at gmx.ch (Lucas Vogelsang)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 14:20:49 +0200 (MEST)
Subject: [Ronja] paypal donations using credit cards
References: <20051024103641.GA28605@kestrel>
Message-ID: <3274.1130156449@www33.gmx.net>

hi

A lot of people have, but some haven't as well, if there is need you can
always upgrade to premium.

> How many people do have paypal account? How do they transfer money into
A lot of people have, but some haven't as well, if there is need you can
always upgrade to premium.

> paypal? From their account using in-land wire money transfer?
> 
most of the time credit cards or checks. look at their homepage...

> CL<

Lucas

-- 
Highspeed-Freiheit. Bei GMX supergünstig, z.B. GMX DSL_Cityflat,
DSL-Flatrate für nur 4,99 Euro/Monat*  http://www.gmx.net/de/go/dsl


From toad at amphibian.dyndns.org  Mon Oct 24 13:21:16 2005
From: toad at amphibian.dyndns.org (Matthew Toseland)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 13:21:16 +0100
Subject: [Ronja] paypal donations using credit cards
In-Reply-To: <20051024103641.GA28605@kestrel>
References: <20051023204209.GA1417@kestrel> <12508.1130145573@www55.gmx.net>
	<20051024103641.GA28605@kestrel>
Message-ID: <20051024122116.GA26798@amphibian.dyndns.org>

On Mon, Oct 24, 2005 at 12:36:41PM +0200, Karel Kulhavy wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 24, 2005 at 11:19:33AM +0200, Lucas Vogelsang wrote:
> > Hi,
> > 
> > 
> > As far as I know this Premium account allows people to pay with creditcard
> > without having a paypal account.
> > 
> > You only need this for people who want to give you money over creditcard.
> > But when people want to donate with paypal, they mean that they have a
> > paypal account.
> 
> How many people do have paypal account? How do they transfer money into
> paypal? From their account using in-land wire money transfer?

Millions. And yes, or debit or credit cards. I don't think it
particularly matters - any sort of international transfer will usually
take at least the above fees. International bank wires or Western Union
take much more unless the value sent is very large, and many projects
(well, at least the one I work for) gain most of their income from
smallish donations.

If you get a personal account you can always upgrade to a business
account later.
> 
> CL<
> > 
> > Lucas
> > 
> > > --- Urspr?ngliche Nachricht ---
> > > Von: Karel Kulhavy <clock at twibright.com>
> > > An: Twibright Ronja <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
> > > Betreff: [Ronja] paypal donations using credit cards
> > > Datum: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 22:42:09 +0200
> > > 
> > > How many people would like to send paypal donations using credit cards?
> > > Does anyone please have enough knowledge around Paypal to be able to
> > > predict this?
> > > 
> > > If I select Personal Paypal account, I can receive money for free, but
> > > people cannot send using credit card. If I select Premier account,
> > > people can send from credit cards, but it costs extra 3.4%+0.35EUR
> > > 
> > > CL<
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Ronja mailing list
> > > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> > > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > Highspeed-Freiheit. Bei GMX superg?nstig, z.B. GMX DSL_Cityflat,
> > DSL-Flatrate f?r nur 4,99 Euro/Monat*  http://www.gmx.net/de/go/dsl
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ronja mailing list
> > Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja

-- 
Matthew J Toseland - toad at amphibian.dyndns.org
Freenet Project Official Codemonkey - http://freenetproject.org/
ICTHUS - Nothing is impossible. Our Boss says so.
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From clock at twibright.com  Mon Oct 24 21:45:32 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 22:45:32 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Paypal donations established on Ronja
Message-ID: <20051024204532.GA30842@kestrel>

Hello

Ronja now has button to donate using Paypal:
http://ronja.twibright.com/sponsors.php

CL<


From clock at twibright.com  Wed Oct 26 15:04:53 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 16:04:53 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] gEDA DLL hell
Message-ID: <20051026140453.GC21330@kestrel>

My friend (who miracuously managed to install gEDA before) now needs to
run gattrib and he realizes he doesn't have it. When he tries to install
it, he runs into DLL hell. He has Ubuntu.

Would it be possible to write a guide on the Download page what should
one do if he wants to install gattrib (regardless of what version of
gEDA and which parts he has currently installed on his PC, and
regardless of whether he uses plain GNU/Linux, Linux from scratch,
debian, ubuntu, gentoo, redhat, or whatever).

This is just a practical proof showing that distributions don't
solve the DLL hell (they just move it to the less frequent
applications).

CL<


From lucasvo at gmx.ch  Wed Oct 26 19:46:08 2005
From: lucasvo at gmx.ch (Lucas Vogelsang)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 20:46:08 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] [Fwd: Re: cia bot]
Message-ID: <1130352368.7587.9.camel@localhost.localdomain>

Hi,

as you can see, I asked Micah for putting a CIA bot into #ronja irc
channel. it notifies us whenever a new version of svn-repository from
ronja is available.

lucas

-------- Forwarded Message --------
> From: Micah Dowty <micahjd at gmail.com>
> Reply-To: micah at navi.cx
> To: Lucas Vogelsang <lucasvo at gmx.ch>
> Subject: Re: cia bot
> Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 10:59:07 -0700
> 
> Done.
> 
> --Micah
> 
> On 10/26/05, Lucas Vogelsang <lucasvo at gmx.ch> wrote:
> > Hello
> >
> > Could you please put a cia bot into #ronja on irc.freenode.net for project
> > ronja?
> >
> > thank you lucas
> >
> > --
> > Telefonieren Sie schon oder sparen Sie noch?
> > NEU: GMX Phone_Flat http://www.gmx.net/de/go/telefonie
> >
> 
> 
> --
> Only you can prevent creeping featurism!
> 



From asteri_x at freemail.hu  Wed Oct 26 20:47:45 2005
From: asteri_x at freemail.hu (Gy Martin)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 21:47:45 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] 100MHz transmitter
Message-ID: <435FDD61.9060705@freemail.hu>

Hi Everybody!

I have drawn the schematics of a transmitter that should work fine with
the MLT3 signals.
It is using the MLT3 as an analogue signal, and does nothing, but
converting it to light.
That means, it is completely transparent to the Ethernet.
Also the link pulses and autonegotiation things should go through it
whithout modification, but that's sound of future.

Maybe there will be no need for Twister, because the MLT3 signals are
comming through it automatically.

Of course, the switch should be as close as possible to the transmitter,
to ensure good signal conditions.

Features:
1. adjustable average laser current,
2. adjustable average modulating transistor current,
3. adjustable modulation depth,
4. some kind of power over ethernet :)
	(should be modified to be real PoE conform)

No photodiode is used to monitor the lasing power, because most real
strong, >40mW lasers don't have any.

I will try to get the only red laser diode i have to work for me.
I have some invisible diodes too, but its too risky for me, I don't like
them.

I want to use big collimator lenses about 90cm diameter, that means, the
laser power will not be in a small beam, and it can't hurt anyone.
Also, the divergence will be smaller.

My aim is to reach a distance of 10km, but maybe this is a dream.
I live in Tirol, and it would be a real nice experiment, to use a mirror
mounted on a nearby hill, to eliminate the problems that trees mean to me.
I think it should work, my wife is sceptic :)

When I have the electronic parts, I will test it with a Gsample scope at
work.

That's all for today.

Bye,
Martin
-------------- next part --------------
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From sorin at bz.ines.ro  Wed Oct 26 21:10:49 2005
From: sorin at bz.ines.ro (Sorin Popa)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 23:10:49 +0300
Subject: [Ronja] Ronja Digest, Vol 30, Issue 41
References: <mailman.3197.1130356077.2010.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
Message-ID: <001401c5da69$5bd4ef70$0d13320a@sorin>

Martin, can you put here your schematic? maybe we can try us ;)...until you 
can..;)..
 keep goin'..
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <ronja-request at lists.pointless.net>
To: <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 10:47 PM
Subject: Ronja Digest, Vol 30, Issue 41


> Send Ronja mailing list submissions to
> ronja at lists.pointless.net
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> ronja-request at lists.pointless.net
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> ronja-owner at lists.pointless.net
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Ronja digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1.  gEDA DLL hell (Karel Kulhavy)
>   2.  [Fwd: Re: cia bot] (Lucas Vogelsang)
>   3.  100MHz transmitter (Gy Martin)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 16:04:53 +0200
> From: Karel Kulhavy <clock at twibright.com>
> Subject: [Ronja] gEDA DLL hell
> To: geda-user at seul.org
> Cc: Twibright Ronja <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
> Message-ID: <20051026140453.GC21330 at kestrel>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> My friend (who miracuously managed to install gEDA before) now needs to
> run gattrib and he realizes he doesn't have it. When he tries to install
> it, he runs into DLL hell. He has Ubuntu.
>
> Would it be possible to write a guide on the Download page what should
> one do if he wants to install gattrib (regardless of what version of
> gEDA and which parts he has currently installed on his PC, and
> regardless of whether he uses plain GNU/Linux, Linux from scratch,
> debian, ubuntu, gentoo, redhat, or whatever).
>
> This is just a practical proof showing that distributions don't
> solve the DLL hell (they just move it to the less frequent
> applications).
>
> CL<
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 20:46:08 +0200
> From: Lucas Vogelsang <lucasvo at gmx.ch>
> Subject: [Ronja] [Fwd: Re: cia bot]
> To: Twibright Ronja <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
> Message-ID: <1130352368.7587.9.camel at localhost.localdomain>
> Content-Type: text/plain
>
> Hi,
>
> as you can see, I asked Micah for putting a CIA bot into #ronja irc
> channel. it notifies us whenever a new version of svn-repository from
> ronja is available.
>
> lucas
>
> -------- Forwarded Message --------
>> From: Micah Dowty <micahjd at gmail.com>
>> Reply-To: micah at navi.cx
>> To: Lucas Vogelsang <lucasvo at gmx.ch>
>> Subject: Re: cia bot
>> Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 10:59:07 -0700
>>
>> Done.
>>
>> --Micah
>>
>> On 10/26/05, Lucas Vogelsang <lucasvo at gmx.ch> wrote:
>> > Hello
>> >
>> > Could you please put a cia bot into #ronja on irc.freenode.net for 
>> > project
>> > ronja?
>> >
>> > thank you lucas
>> >
>> > --
>> > Telefonieren Sie schon oder sparen Sie noch?
>> > NEU: GMX Phone_Flat http://www.gmx.net/de/go/telefonie
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>> Only you can prevent creeping featurism!
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 21:47:45 +0200
> From: Gy Martin <asteri_x at freemail.hu>
> Subject: [Ronja] 100MHz transmitter
> To: Twibright Ronja <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
> Message-ID: <435FDD61.9060705 at freemail.hu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hi Everybody!
>
> I have drawn the schematics of a transmitter that should work fine with
> the MLT3 signals.
> It is using the MLT3 as an analogue signal, and does nothing, but
> converting it to light.
> That means, it is completely transparent to the Ethernet.
> Also the link pulses and autonegotiation things should go through it
> whithout modification, but that's sound of future.
>
> Maybe there will be no need for Twister, because the MLT3 signals are
> comming through it automatically.
>
> Of course, the switch should be as close as possible to the transmitter,
> to ensure good signal conditions.
>
> Features:
> 1. adjustable average laser current,
> 2. adjustable average modulating transistor current,
> 3. adjustable modulation depth,
> 4. some kind of power over ethernet :)
> (should be modified to be real PoE conform)
>
> No photodiode is used to monitor the lasing power, because most real
> strong, >40mW lasers don't have any.
>
> I will try to get the only red laser diode i have to work for me.
> I have some invisible diodes too, but its too risky for me, I don't like
> them.
>
> I want to use big collimator lenses about 90cm diameter, that means, the
> laser power will not be in a small beam, and it can't hurt anyone.
> Also, the divergence will be smaller.
>
> My aim is to reach a distance of 10km, but maybe this is a dream.
> I live in Tirol, and it would be a real nice experiment, to use a mirror
> mounted on a nearby hill, to eliminate the problems that trees mean to me.
> I think it should work, my wife is sceptic :)
>
> When I have the electronic parts, I will test it with a Gsample scope at
> work.
>
> That's all for today.
>
> Bye,
> Martin
> -------------- next part --------------
> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
> Name: transmitter.png
> Type: image/png
> Size: 60226 bytes
> Desc: not available
> Url : 
> http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20051026/abd75b43/transmitter.png
> -------------- next part --------------
> An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed...
> Name: transmitter.sch
> Url: 
> http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20051026/abd75b43/transmitter.ksh
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>
>
> End of Ronja Digest, Vol 30, Issue 41
> ************************************* 



From lucasvo at gmx.ch  Wed Oct 26 21:42:32 2005
From: lucasvo at gmx.ch (Lucas Vogelsang)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 22:42:32 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] 100MHz transmitter
In-Reply-To: <435FDD61.9060705@freemail.hu>
References: <435FDD61.9060705@freemail.hu>
Message-ID: <1130359352.7587.12.camel@localhost.localdomain>

hi, 

Cool, with 10km we only need about 20 links to zurich :D

lucas

On Wed, 2005-10-26 at 21:47 +0200, Gy Martin wrote:
> Hi Everybody!
> 
> I have drawn the schematics of a transmitter that should work fine with
> the MLT3 signals.
> It is using the MLT3 as an analogue signal, and does nothing, but
> converting it to light.
> That means, it is completely transparent to the Ethernet.
> Also the link pulses and autonegotiation things should go through it
> whithout modification, but that's sound of future.
> 
> Maybe there will be no need for Twister, because the MLT3 signals are
> comming through it automatically.
> 
> Of course, the switch should be as close as possible to the transmitter,
> to ensure good signal conditions.
> 
> Features:
> 1. adjustable average laser current,
> 2. adjustable average modulating transistor current,
> 3. adjustable modulation depth,
> 4. some kind of power over ethernet :)
> 	(should be modified to be real PoE conform)
> 
> No photodiode is used to monitor the lasing power, because most real
> strong, >40mW lasers don't have any.
> 
> I will try to get the only red laser diode i have to work for me.
> I have some invisible diodes too, but its too risky for me, I don't like
> them.
> 
> I want to use big collimator lenses about 90cm diameter, that means, the
> laser power will not be in a small beam, and it can't hurt anyone.
> Also, the divergence will be smaller.
> 
> My aim is to reach a distance of 10km, but maybe this is a dream.
> I live in Tirol, and it would be a real nice experiment, to use a mirror
> mounted on a nearby hill, to eliminate the problems that trees mean to me.
> I think it should work, my wife is sceptic :)
> 
> When I have the electronic parts, I will test it with a Gsample scope at
> work.
> 
> That's all for today.
> 
> Bye,
> Martin
> plain text document attachment (transmitter.sch)
> v 20050313 1
> C 40200 40100 0 0 0 title-A2.sym
> T 57700 40800 9 15 1 0 0 0 2
> 100 MHz Transceiver
> Simple edition.
> T 57400 40200 9 10 1 0 0 0 1
> 1             1
> T 57000 40500 9 10 1 0 0 0 1
> Tansmitter
> T 60600 40500 9 10 1 0 0 0 1
> 1
> T 60600 40200 9 10 1 0 0 0 1
> Martin Gyurk?
> C 43900 50400 1 0 0 ADT1-1WT-1.sym
> {
> T 43900 51800 5 10 1 1 0 0 1
> refdes=T1
> }
> C 40600 50100 1 0 0 rj45-1.sym
> {
> T 40600 52000 5 10 1 1 0 0 1
> refdes=CONN1
> T 39700 52600 5 10 0 0 0 0 1
> footprint=CONNECTOR 2 4
> }
> C 43400 46400 1 0 0 gnd-1.sym
> C 46700 51500 1 0 0 capacitor-1.sym
> {
> T 47100 52000 5 10 1 1 0 0 1
> refdes=C1
> T 46900 51300 5 10 1 1 0 0 1
> value=100n
> T 46900 51100 5 10 1 1 0 0 1
> footprint=0805
> }
> C 45400 49800 1 0 0 gnd-1.sym
> T 40300 51200 9 10 1 0 0 0 1
> Rx+
> T 40300 50600 9 10 1 0 0 0 1
> Rx-
> T 40300 51400 9 10 1 0 0 0 1
> Tx-
> T 40300 51600 9 10 1 0 0 0 1
> Tx+
> N 41500 51300 43900 51300 4
> N 43900 51300 43900 51700 4
> N 43900 50500 43900 50700 4
> N 43900 50700 41500 50700 4
> C 54200 43000 1 90 0 resistor-1.sym
> {
> T 53900 43400 5 10 1 1 180 0 1
> refdes=R7
> T 54800 43500 5 10 1 1 180 0 1
> value=4,7k
> T 54800 43700 5 10 1 1 180 0 1
> footprint=0805
> }
> C 59700 50600 1 90 0 led-3.sym
> {
> T 59050 51050 5 10 1 1 180 0 1
> refdes=D1
> T 59700 50600 5 10 0 0 0 0 1
> footprint=LED
> T 59700 50600 5 10 1 1 0 0 1
> device=Laser Diode Ith 60mA, Imax 100mA
> }
> T 60400 44200 9 10 1 0 0 0 1
> 70mAdc 
> C 59400 43000 1 0 0 gnd-1.sym
> C 56000 50100 1 0 0 capacitor-1.sym
> {
> T 56400 50600 5 10 1 1 0 0 1
> refdes=C4
> T 56200 49900 5 10 1 1 0 0 1
> value=100n
> T 56200 49700 5 10 1 1 0 0 1
> footprint=0805
> }
> C 59600 43600 1 90 0 resistor-1.sym
> {
> T 59300 44000 5 10 1 1 180 0 1
> refdes=R7
> T 60000 43900 5 10 1 1 180 0 1
> value=1
> T 60200 44300 5 10 1 1 180 0 1
> footprint=0805
> }
> C 59400 46000 1 270 0 resistor-variable-1.sym
> {
> T 59800 45200 5 10 1 1 0 0 1
> refdes=R?
> T 60200 45500 5 10 0 1 0 0 1
> footprint=SOT23
> T 60200 45400 5 10 1 1 0 0 1
> value=100
> }
> N 45500 50100 45500 50500 4
> N 45500 50500 45400 50500 4
> N 46700 51700 45400 51700 4
> C 47500 46000 1 0 0 gnd-1.sym
> C 50900 46900 1 270 0 resistor-variable-1.sym
> {
> T 51300 46100 5 10 1 1 0 0 1
> refdes=R?
> T 51700 46400 5 10 0 1 0 0 1
> footprint=SOT23
> T 51300 46600 5 10 1 1 0 0 1
> value=100
> }
> C 54200 41800 1 90 0 zener-2.sym
> {
> T 53800 42200 5 10 1 1 180 0 1
> refdes=Z?
> T 54400 42200 5 10 1 1 0 0 1
> value=2.5V
> }
> C 59600 49000 1 90 0 coil-2.sym
> {
> T 59300 49200 5 10 1 1 180 0 1
> refdes=L2
> T 59600 49000 5 10 1 1 0 0 1
> value=0,5nH
> }
> C 51100 53500 1 90 0 coil-2.sym
> {
> T 50800 53900 5 10 1 1 180 0 1
> refdes=L1
> T 51100 53500 5 10 1 1 0 0 1
> value=0,5nH
> }
> C 57000 47300 1 0 0 tl072-1.sym
> {
> T 57200 48200 5 10 1 1 0 0 1
> refdes=U1
> T 57000 47300 5 10 0 0 0 0 1
> slot=2
> }
> C 44600 48600 1 0 0 tl072-1.sym
> {
> T 44800 49500 5 10 1 1 0 0 1
> refdes=U1
> T 44600 48600 5 10 0 1 0 0 1
> slot=1
> }
> C 50400 48500 1 0 0 BFR92.sym
> {
> T 51300 49200 5 10 1 1 0 0 1
> device=BFR193
> T 51300 49000 5 10 1 1 0 0 1
> refdes=Q?
> }
> C 58600 47200 1 0 0 BC847.sym
> {
> T 59800 47900 5 10 1 1 0 0 1
> device=BC847
> T 59800 47700 5 10 1 1 0 0 1
> refdes=Q?
> }
> C 54000 41200 1 0 0 gnd-1.sym
> N 58900 47700 58000 47700 4
> N 59500 48200 59500 49000 4
> N 54100 41500 54100 41800 4
> N 54100 42600 54100 43000 4
> N 59500 46000 59500 47200 4
> N 59500 50000 59500 50600 4
> N 60000 45500 60000 44700 4
> C 57400 46600 1 0 0 gnd-1.sym
> N 57500 46900 57500 47300 4
> N 57000 47500 57000 46200 4
> N 57000 46200 59500 46200 4
> N 56900 50300 59500 50300 4
> C 50900 43200 1 0 0 gnd-1.sym
> N 51000 46900 51000 48500 4
> N 51000 49500 51000 51500 4
> N 51000 52400 51000 53500 4
> N 56000 50300 51000 50300 4
> C 46200 48900 1 0 0 resistor-1.sym
> {
> T 46600 49400 5 10 1 1 180 0 1
> refdes=R8
> T 46700 48800 5 10 1 1 180 0 1
> value=10k
> T 47100 48600 5 10 1 1 180 0 1
> footprint=0805
> }
> C 52700 41800 1 90 0 capacitor-1.sym
> {
> T 52100 42300 5 10 1 1 180 0 1
> refdes=C1
> T 53000 42500 5 10 1 1 180 0 1
> value=100n
> T 53100 42000 5 10 1 1 180 0 1
> footprint=0805
> }
> C 43700 47300 1 90 0 capacitor-1.sym
> {
> T 43100 47800 5 10 1 1 180 0 1
> refdes=C1
> T 44000 48000 5 10 1 1 180 0 1
> value=100n
> T 44100 47500 5 10 1 1 180 0 1
> footprint=0805
> }
> N 52500 41800 52500 41600 4
> N 52500 41600 54100 41600 4
> C 47800 46600 1 90 0 capacitor-1.sym
> {
> T 47200 47100 5 10 1 1 180 0 1
> refdes=C1
> T 48100 47300 5 10 1 1 180 0 1
> value=100n
> T 48200 46800 5 10 1 1 180 0 1
> footprint=0805
> }
> C 51100 44300 1 90 0 resistor-1.sym
> {
> T 50800 44700 5 10 1 1 180 0 1
> refdes=R7
> T 51400 44600 5 10 1 1 180 0 1
> value=1
> T 51700 45000 5 10 1 1 180 0 1
> footprint=0805
> }
> T 52000 50500 9 10 1 0 0 0 1
> +/- 10mA
> T 60400 43800 9 10 1 0 0 0 1
> +/- 10mA
> N 51000 46000 51000 45200 4
> N 51500 46400 51500 45500 4
> N 51500 45500 51000 45500 4
> N 47600 46300 47600 46600 4
> N 47600 47500 47600 49000 4
> N 45600 49000 46200 49000 4
> N 43500 47300 43500 46700 4
> C 47800 48900 1 0 0 resistor-1.sym
> {
> T 48200 49400 5 10 1 1 180 0 1
> refdes=R8
> T 48300 48800 5 10 1 1 180 0 1
> value=1k
> T 48700 48600 5 10 1 1 180 0 1
> footprint=0805
> }
> N 42800 42700 42800 49200 4
> N 42800 49200 44600 49200 4
> N 47100 49000 47800 49000 4
> C 49200 48900 1 0 0 resistor-1.sym
> {
> T 49600 49400 5 10 1 1 180 0 1
> refdes=R8
> T 49700 48800 5 10 1 1 180 0 1
> value=100
> T 50100 48600 5 10 1 1 180 0 1
> footprint=0805
> }
> N 48700 49000 49200 49000 4
> N 50100 49000 50400 49000 4
> N 47600 51700 48900 51700 4
> N 48900 51700 48900 49000 4
> N 51000 43500 51000 44300 4
> N 51000 47100 48700 47100 4
> N 48700 47100 48700 45600 4
> N 43500 48200 43500 49200 4
> N 44200 45600 48700 45600 4
> N 44200 45600 44200 48800 4
> N 44200 48800 44600 48800 4
> N 42800 42700 54100 42700 4
> C 55700 46600 1 90 0 capacitor-1.sym
> {
> T 55100 47100 5 10 1 1 180 0 1
> refdes=C1
> T 56000 47300 5 10 1 1 180 0 1
> value=100n
> T 56100 46800 5 10 1 1 180 0 1
> footprint=0805
> }
> C 55400 46100 1 0 0 gnd-1.sym
> N 52500 42700 52500 47900 4
> N 52500 47900 57000 47900 4
> N 55500 47500 55500 47900 4
> N 55500 46400 55500 46600 4
> C 50800 54700 1 0 0 vcc-1.sym
> C 59300 53300 1 0 0 vcc-1.sym
> C 57300 48500 1 0 0 vcc-1.sym
> C 53900 44100 1 0 0 vcc-1.sym
> N 51500 51900 51800 51900 4
> N 51800 51900 51800 51100 4
> N 51800 51100 51000 51100 4
> N 51000 54500 51000 54700 4
> N 57500 48100 57500 48500 4
> N 54100 43900 54100 44100 4
> T 61600 40500 9 10 1 0 0 0 1
> asteri_x at freemail.hu
> C 50900 52400 1 270 0 resistor-variable-1.sym
> {
> T 51300 51600 5 10 1 1 0 0 1
> refdes=R?
> T 51700 51900 5 10 0 1 0 0 1
> footprint=SOT23
> T 51400 52200 5 10 1 1 0 0 1
> value=1000
> }
> N 59500 43300 59500 43600 4
> N 59500 44500 59500 45100 4
> N 60000 44700 59500 44700 4
> N 59500 51500 59500 53300 4
> C 47800 54100 1 0 0 vcc-1.sym
> C 60700 51900 1 90 0 capacitor-1.sym
> {
> T 60100 52400 5 10 1 1 180 0 1
> refdes=C1
> T 61000 52600 5 10 1 1 180 0 1
> value=100n
> T 61100 52100 5 10 1 1 180 0 1
> footprint=0805
> }
> N 60500 52800 59500 52800 4
> C 60400 51400 1 0 0 gnd-1.sym
> N 60500 51700 60500 51900 4
> C 41600 49800 1 0 0 gnd-1.sym
> T 49600 44500 9 10 1 0 0 0 2
> 15 mAdc
> +/-10mA
> T 43900 52400 9 10 1 0 0 0 1
> suggestions???
> T 61000 45300 9 10 1 0 0 0 2
> Adjust average laser 
> current here !
> T 49100 45800 9 10 1 0 0 0 2
> Adjust modulating 
> current point 2 !
> T 52200 51900 9 10 1 0 0 0 1
> Adjust modulating current point 1 !
> C 47900 44000 1 90 0 capacitor-1.sym
> {
> T 47300 44500 5 10 1 1 180 0 1
> refdes=C1
> T 48200 44700 5 10 1 1 180 0 1
> value=100n
> T 48300 44200 5 10 1 1 180 0 1
> footprint=0805
> }
> C 47600 43300 1 0 0 gnd-1.sym
> N 47700 44900 47700 45600 4
> N 47700 43600 47700 44000 4
> N 41500 51100 41700 51100 4
> N 41700 51100 41700 50900 4
> N 41700 50300 41500 50300 4
> N 41500 50500 41700 50500 4
> N 41700 50100 41700 50500 4
> N 41500 50900 41700 50900 4
> C 44100 53100 1 90 0 zener-2.sym
> {
> T 43700 53500 5 10 1 1 180 0 1
> refdes=Z?
> T 44300 53500 5 10 1 1 0 0 1
> value=8V
> }
> C 43900 52600 1 0 0 gnd-1.sym
> N 44000 52900 44000 53100 4
> C 44200 53500 1 0 0 regulator-1.sym
> {
> T 45600 54500 5 10 1 1 0 6 1
> refdes=U?
> T 45200 53600 5 10 1 1 0 0 1
> device=7805
> }
> N 44000 53900 44000 54100 4
> N 45800 54100 48000 54100 4
> N 45000 53500 45000 53000 4
> C 42900 53100 1 90 0 capacitor-1.sym
> {
> T 42300 53600 5 10 1 1 180 0 1
> refdes=C1
> T 43200 53800 5 10 1 1 180 0 1
> value=100n
> T 43300 53300 5 10 1 1 180 0 1
> footprint=0805
> }
> C 47200 53100 1 90 0 capacitor-1.sym
> {
> T 46600 53600 5 10 1 1 180 0 1
> refdes=C1
> T 47500 53800 5 10 1 1 180 0 1
> value=100n
> T 47600 53300 5 10 1 1 180 0 1
> footprint=0805
> }
> N 47000 54000 47000 54100 4
> N 42700 53100 42700 53000 4
> N 42700 53000 44000 53000 4
> N 42700 54000 42700 54100 4
> N 47000 53100 47000 53000 4
> N 44000 53000 47000 53000 4
> N 42000 54100 44200 54100 4
> N 42000 54100 42000 51000 4
> N 42000 51000 41700 51000 4
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja



From clock at twibright.com  Thu Oct 27 09:25:44 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 10:25:44 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] unofficial ronja rx PCB
In-Reply-To: <20051027040813.GA72535@elkcity.darq.net>
References: <20051027040813.GA72535@elkcity.darq.net>
Message-ID: <20051027082544.GA28786@kestrel>

On Thu, Oct 27, 2005 at 05:08:13AM +0100, Andrew Wasilczuk wrote:
> Hi Clock.
> What do you think about the unofficial Ronja RX board
> (http://wiki.twibright.com/index.php/RonjaPCB).  Does it work fine in
> your opinion? It would be great if the kit that I'm planning to sell is

No - some people report problems. Moreover it's turned around so it
doesn't fit into the standard mechanics.

Moreover a bug has been found in the RX (radiation of the packet about
10mVpp) which will mean changes in the schematic.

> fully PCB based as the airwire stuff might scare people a bit and is
> obviously harder to build.  When are you planning on releasing the
> official version of the RX board?  Is it wise to manufacture the

I don't know.

> unofficial SMD board for the time being?  

If someone gets a problem with it, I can't support him. If someone gets
problem with official RX, I treat it as a bug of the Ronja and try to
fix it.

> 
> I had a look at the unofficial boards zip file containing the board
> design but since I don't know much about electronics I'm getting
> confused as to which files should I sent to the potential manufacturers
> when asking for a quote.  Is smd_RX - CADCAM.ZIP all I need?

Manufacturers need Gerber RS 274-X and Excellon/Sieb-Meyer drill files.

CL<
> 
> Thanks,
> Jedrek
> 
> -- 
> [darq# andrew at darq.com]
> [http://darq.com/#/]


From asteri_x at freemail.hu  Thu Oct 27 12:27:44 2005
From: asteri_x at freemail.hu (Martin)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 13:27:44 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] 100MHz transmitter
In-Reply-To: <1130359352.7587.12.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <435FDD61.9060705@freemail.hu>
	<1130359352.7587.12.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <4360B9B0.4080802@freemail.hu>

Sorin Popa ?rta:

>> Martin, can you put here your schematic? maybe we can try us

;)...until you

>> can..;)..


You can find it in the ronja archives:
http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20051026/abd75b43/transmitter-0001.png
http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20051026/abd75b43/transmitter-0001.ksh

Lucas Vogelsang ?rta:

>> hi,
>>
>> Cool, with 10km we only need about 20 links to zurich :D
>>
>> lucas


OK. That should be manageable if you buy the components :D

But the weather in the Alps is horrible for making a good link above
300m from the ground.
Here I live at 900m sealevel, and I have 50% of the time fog or clouds
on the hills above 1200m. Especially in summer.

Yesterday night i could make a current source, and have finally found
the only LD, thats a red one.
(The current source is simply a bc547c, a poti of 100 Ohm, a 5kOhm
resistor, and a voltage reference of 1.25V)

Cool to see the working of the lasing threshold current  :)

This LD is horrible. I disassembled it from an optical pickup of a
DVD-ROM. If there is no collimating lens directly in front of it, the
light is spread at an angle of about 60? and 20? and most of it is lost.
The 2 directions mean, that it produces a line-like pattern.
I have used a 90cm lense, and tried to collimate the beam. The focus is
about 100mm, and i got only a part of the light into the beam. About
half of it.

It's funny to see the spot on the walls of the distant houses and
traffic signs. STOP tables are the most efficient reflectors!!!

In the morning dawn I have managed to get a twinkle of a normal triangle
reflector placed by me at about 1 km distance. I used a 20x50 telescope
to aim and find the spot.

Conclusions:
- need optimal lense, or at least have to use 2 lenses, maybe original
from the pickup.
- aiming will be a torture...especially at 10km :)
- spherical lenses don't work optimal. Only a small inner region is
usable to get a parallel beam. Ashperical lenses should be used, but
those can't be produced perfectly. Anyone a suggestion?
- Fresnel lenses as transmitters are unusable, due to the ring pattern.

Bye,
Martin





From clock at twibright.com  Thu Oct 27 14:08:58 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 15:08:58 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Ronja
In-Reply-To: <244.501-6309-837155792-1130411577@seznam.cz>
References: <20051027084256.GE29947@kestrel>
	<244.501-6309-837155792-1130411577@seznam.cz>
Message-ID: <20051027130858.GA24659@kestrel>

On Thu, Oct 27, 2005 at 01:12:57PM +0200, OK2ARM wrote:
> Ahoj. 
> Zajimalo by me, zda-li se nekde daji sehnat desky na ten twister. Dale
http://wiki.twibright.com/index.php/GettingRonjaHardware
> by me zajimalo, jak se toto zarizeni chova v huste 
> mlze. A jes te me neni jasny, jestli ten twister ma nejakou IPku nebo
http://ronja.twibright.com/drawings/dist.pdf
> se to chova proste jako kdybych spojil dva 
Doesn't have IP address.
> LAN kabely?  A jeste ta optika, jaka se tam pouziva cocka, je to
> jedno, nebo je tam neco specifickeho ? Pak by me zajimala
http://ronja.twibright.com/tubular_head_130/material.php
> realna propustnost. A posledni vec ohledne ceny. Na webu mas psano
http://ronja.twibright.com/tetrapolis/spec.php
Gross data rate
http://ronja.twibright.com/metropolis/installing.php
Data Rate Calculations on Various Layers of The Network Traffic
> neco kolem 600kc nebo jak to tam je, to je za TX+RX+Twister ?
The price for all material for one Ronja link is about 4000 CZK.
CL<

> Predem moc diky za odpoved.
> 
> 
> > ------------ Puvodni zprava ------------
> > Od: Karel Kulhavy <clock at twibright.com>
> > Predmet: Re: Ronja
> > Datum: 27.10.2005 11:42:57
> > ----------------------------------------
> > On Wed, Oct 26, 2005 at 10:47:17PM +0200, OK2ARM wrote:
> > > Zdravim. Chtel bych si skusit udelat Ronju, mohl bych se optat na par
> > > veci. Diky
> > 
> > Ano.
> > 
> > CL<
> > 
> > 
> > 


From asteri_x at freemail.hu  Fri Oct 28 08:50:23 2005
From: asteri_x at freemail.hu (Martin)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 09:50:23 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] 100MHz transmitter
In-Reply-To: <1130359352.7587.12.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <435FDD61.9060705@freemail.hu>
	<1130359352.7587.12.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <4361D83F.2070508@freemail.hu>

Yeah!

Yesterday I have successfully killed the laser diode.
Accidentally shorted emmitter of transistor to kathode of laser.
Maybe an absolute limiting resistor will be necessary, to prevent
problems like this.

Searching for new one, but I currently try the cuircuit with resistor
and LED. :)

Suggestions for cheap (free) laser diodes?

Bye
Martin


From sorin at bz.ines.ro  Fri Oct 28 09:02:36 2005
From: sorin at bz.ines.ro (Sorin Popa)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 11:02:36 +0300
Subject: [Ronja] 100Mhz transmiter
References: <mailman.7.1130410801.1447.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
Message-ID: <001c01c5db95$f586a820$0d13320a@sorin>

TL072 from that 100Mhz transmiter can have more 10Mhz bandpass? cause in his 
pdf he stoped at 10Mhz freq...  tks.. 



From clock at twibright.com  Fri Oct 28 10:31:41 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 11:31:41 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] Pomoc s prijimacom
In-Reply-To: <4361D294.7020002@utcpd.sk>
References: <4361D294.7020002@utcpd.sk>
Message-ID: <20051028093141.GA12819@kestrel>

On Fri, Oct 28, 2005 at 09:26:12AM +0200, Ondrej Karpis wrote:
> Dobry den.
> 
> Predovsetkym Vam chcem zazelat vela uspechov a dobrych napadov pri 
> dalsej praci okolo projektu Ronja. Velmi sa mi paci praca, ktoru ste 
> doteraz urobili.
> Chcel by som Vas poprosit o radu tykajucu sa prijimaca IR vysielania. 
> Pokusam sa vytvorit jednoduche zariadenie umoznujuce komunikaciu pomocou 
> svetla. Chcel by som vyuzit seriovy port pocitaca. Vysielac je pomerne 
> jednoduchy (MAX 232, 74hc04 a dioda). Vysiela sa priamo v "digitalnej" 
> forme - svieti/nesvieti (ziadna modulacia). Problemy mam s prijimacom. 
> Skusal som niektore jednoduche zapojenia, ale ziadne nie je dost 
> citlive. Dokonca som sa pokusal upravit aj Vase zapojenie z RX 
> prijimaca. Neuspesne :))
> Potreboval by som obvod, ktory by bol schopny dat na vystup digitalny 
> signal 0-5V a bol by dostatocne citlivy, aby fungoval bez optiky na 
> niekolko desiatok centimetrov (v podstate sa teda jedna o IR prijimac s 
> tvarovacom). Doteraz sa mi podarila komunikacia pri 115 kbps maximalne 
> na vzdialenost do 7 cm. Idealne by bolo, keby to malo dosah ako napr. 
> ovladac na televizor. Tam je ale ten signal modulovany.
> Predpokladam pouzitie hlavne v noci, takze obvody na potlacenie rusiveho 
> svetla by odpadli. Ale nemam nic proti tomu aby to fungovalo aj cez den:)
> Ak by ste mali nejaky napad, velmi by mi to pomohlo.
> Vopred dakujem

Misto celeho systemu muzete pouzit Ronja Inferno - tam je problem jiz
vyresen. Pokud chcete nizsi prenosovou rychlost, oshapujte sit pomoci
QoS. Dosah Ronja Inferno je 1.25km coz vyhovuje Vasemu pozadavku na
dosah TV ovladace. Pokud chcete provoz na 10m, je mozne dosah Ronji
snizit, viz FAQ.

CL<
> 
> Ondrej Karpis


From asteri_x at freemail.hu  Fri Oct 28 15:09:23 2005
From: asteri_x at freemail.hu (Martin)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 16:09:23 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] 100Mhz transmiter
In-Reply-To: <001c01c5db95$f586a820$0d13320a@sorin>
References: <mailman.7.1130410801.1447.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
	<001c01c5db95$f586a820$0d13320a@sorin>
Message-ID: <43623113.7080508@freemail.hu>

Sorin Popa ?rta:
> TL072 from that 100Mhz transmiter can have more 10Mhz bandpass? cause in his 
> pdf he stoped at 10Mhz freq...  tks.. 

The TL072 is only used to automatically regulate the average current, so
it doesn't have to be fast.

Today I realized, that the 100Mbit/s signals have the following
structure. I made a capture with a LeCroy skope at work :)
Every bit is 8 ns wide, and 4 bits that are ones, make up the fastest
sinus pattern. That means, that the bandwith of the fastest signal has
to be 1/(4*8ns)= 31.25MHz.
But that's only the signal to be sinus. We need a triangle-like pattern.
That means, we need at least 3 uneven harmonics. ( 7*31.25 = 218,75MHz)

It is worth trying the BC847 as a modulator, because the Fairchild
version said fT=300MHz typical, and the philips version sais ft=100MHz
minimum. I didn't measure it.
This transistor is cheap, good to handle, and possibly no high frequency
oscillations may occure.

Bye,
Martin



From asteri_x at freemail.hu  Fri Oct 28 15:17:03 2005
From: asteri_x at freemail.hu (Martin)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 16:17:03 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] 100MHz transmitter
In-Reply-To: <1130359352.7587.12.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <435FDD61.9060705@freemail.hu>
	<1130359352.7587.12.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <436232DF.1000809@freemail.hu>

I forgot the measurement data:
It was taken between one line and a ground of an electronic device I
work with. Not the differential signal!
Maybe differential signal voltage is twice as big.

Bye,
Martin
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From clock at twibright.com  Fri Oct 28 15:34:48 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 16:34:48 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] gEDA-user: gEDA DLL hell
In-Reply-To: <436223A6.5000506@mcmahill.net>
References: <20051027212516.0549bcd7.svenn@bjerkem.de>
	<20051028003203.4B776140825B@moria.seul.org>
	<20051028092305.GA12763@kestrel>
	<39942.129.16.67.175.1130499856.squirrel@webmail.chalmers.se>
	<20051028124855.GA17891@kestrel> <436223A6.5000506@mcmahill.net>
Message-ID: <20051028143448.GA2429@kestrel>

On Fri, Oct 28, 2005 at 09:12:06AM -0400, Dan McMahill wrote:
> Karel Kulhavy wrote:
> >On Fri, Oct 28, 2005 at 01:44:16PM +0200, Henrik Karlsson wrote:
> >
> >>Karel Kulhavy skrev:
> >>
> >>>But what should user do when he has an old version of gEDA and needs
> >>>a new one? Erase the disk and reinstall the operating system completely?
> >>
> >>How about 'yum update' or 'apt-get update; apt-get upgrade'? Or use some
> >>other package mangement system.
> >
> >
> >clock at kestrel:~$ yum update
> >bash: yum: command not found
> >clock at kestrel:~$ apt-get update
> >bash: apt-get: command not found
> >clock at kestrel:~$ apt-get upgrade
> >bash: apt-get: command not found
> >
> >Friend has Ubuntu and there are no gEDA packages.
> >
> >These suggestions are irrelevant. The message is: reinstallation
> >procedure doesn't exist and has to be written. Please understand
> >the message and fix the problem.
> >
> 
> well, just do 'make uninstall' in your source tree.  That should be 

Why don't you write "do 'make uninstall' in your source tree" to the webpage?

> supported by all software which uses automake.
> 
> seriously though, what you're asking for goes way beyond just geda and 
> it is silly to thing that geda will solve this problem which exists for 
> essentially all unix software.  The right solution will vary drastically 
> based on the particular environment.  Is this a single user, all 
> software installed locally system, a distributed system where mirroring 
> of software across a WAN is needed, maybe just a small workgroup that 
> shares installed software on a LAN.  Are you trying to stay within some 
> particular software packaging and deployment system?  Whats your system 

That's on you what you define to stay within. Choose it and then
write a guide that works there. Normal people don't mirror their
/usr/local across a WAN. And both Linux and NetBSD I suppose have
/usr/local or /opt.

> policy on paths, does everything use --prefix=/usr/local or do you do 
> --prefix=/opt/package-version and create a link farm in /opt/bin or 
> maybe just add directories to your path, do you need to support having 
> multiple versions installed at the same time? If so, how do you want 
> users to pick the version?  Change of path?  Versioned wrapper scripts?
> 
> The point is there are many many approaches to this problem, each with 
> its advantages and disadvantages.  No one approach is likely to fit 

Then write the procedure so it works on all of them. For example:
"if your system has /usr/local directory, do xxx, otherwise if it
has /opt directory and you can change the $PATH, do yyy, otherwise do
zzz."

> everyones needs.  By using automake and autoconf, geda automatically 
> provides the sort of functionality though in its build system to help it 
> integrated into many of these different packaging systems.

Intergrated? I wouldn't call this "integrated". This is just a mess.
Eagle or Orcad is what I would call integrated.

> 
> Speaking as one who maintains the geda packages for NetBSD's packaging 
> system and as one who has installed multiple versions outside of a 
> formal packaging system, its just not that hard _unless_ you make some 
> bad sysadmin decisions up front.
> 
> If you don't want to use a formal packaging system, I suggest you just 

Write to the webpage please: "If you aren't using formal packaging
system, do xxx..."

> use --prefix=/opt/geda-${version} and put everything into its own 
> directory.  Then you can easily have multiple versions and just pick the 
> right one for your path.
> 
> I'll note, that the links download page a) does not have correct install 
> instructions for many systems (there is no single package system, 
> ldconfig is not universal, etc) and b) has no indication whatsoever of 

ldconfig not universal? Then instead of "run ldconfig" you write
"if there is ldconfig, run ldconfig."

> how to deinstall or install multiple versions.  I'm not trying to pick 
> on links here, but rather to say that I'm not sure I've seen a program 
> which comes with the instructions you seem to be asking for.

I don't care what are the 1000 reasons why gEDA must be unusable for
the user. People who aren't UNIX software packaging specialists want to
use it. Does it surprise you?

If I take Orcad or Eagle, I run eagle.exe and Eagle is installed in
the system. If I want to deinstall, I go into Windows program list,
select deinstall Eagle, and it's deinstalled. The same with Orcad. If
I want to reinstall, I first uninstall and then install. Or the program
says "previous version of Orcad was detected. Should I overwrite it?"

If Eagle or Orcad developers were able to make it, then it's possible to
make it. So don't tell me why it's not possible and please write

* installation manual
* deinstallation manual
* reinstallation manual

to the website.

> 
> Or maybe I've missed the point of your question...

You probably missed the point. The point is: every user needs to
install, reinstall, and uninstall gEDA. And he needs a guide how to do
it. There is currently no guide, so the user doesn't know how to do it,
and is unable to use gEDA!

CL<
> 
> -Dan


From sorin at bz.ines.ro  Fri Oct 28 15:57:37 2005
From: sorin at bz.ines.ro (Sorin Popa)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 17:57:37 +0300
Subject: [Ronja] Ronja Digest, Vol 30, Issue 44
References: <mailman.3305.1130509041.2010.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
Message-ID: <000701c5dbcf$efee1d00$0d13320a@sorin>

So,your sch will work?  and, BPW43 should work at rx? An laserpointer work? 
How many nanosecond will have photodiode and transmiter to catch 100Mbit 
transfer?..
An good start point questions ;)
---
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <ronja-request at lists.pointless.net>
To: <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2005 5:17 PM
Subject: Ronja Digest, Vol 30, Issue 44


> Send Ronja mailing list submissions to
> ronja at lists.pointless.net
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> ronja-request at lists.pointless.net
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> ronja-owner at lists.pointless.net
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Ronja digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re:  100Mhz transmiter (Martin)
>   2. Re:  100MHz transmitter (Martin)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 16:09:23 +0200
> From: Martin <asteri_x at freemail.hu>
> Subject: Re: [Ronja] 100Mhz transmiter
> To: Twibright Ronja <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
> Message-ID: <43623113.7080508 at freemail.hu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Sorin Popa ?rta:
>> TL072 from that 100Mhz transmiter can have more 10Mhz bandpass? cause in 
>> his
>> pdf he stoped at 10Mhz freq...  tks..
>
> The TL072 is only used to automatically regulate the average current, so
> it doesn't have to be fast.
>
> Today I realized, that the 100Mbit/s signals have the following
> structure. I made a capture with a LeCroy skope at work :)
> Every bit is 8 ns wide, and 4 bits that are ones, make up the fastest
> sinus pattern. That means, that the bandwith of the fastest signal has
> to be 1/(4*8ns)= 31.25MHz.
> But that's only the signal to be sinus. We need a triangle-like pattern.
> That means, we need at least 3 uneven harmonics. ( 7*31.25 = 218,75MHz)
>
> It is worth trying the BC847 as a modulator, because the Fairchild
> version said fT=300MHz typical, and the philips version sais ft=100MHz
> minimum. I didn't measure it.
> This transistor is cheap, good to handle, and possibly no high frequency
> oscillations may occure.
>
> Bye,
> Martin
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 16:17:03 +0200
> From: Martin <asteri_x at freemail.hu>
> Subject: Re: [Ronja] 100MHz transmitter
> To: Twibright Ronja <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
> Message-ID: <436232DF.1000809 at freemail.hu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I forgot the measurement data:
> It was taken between one line and a ground of an electronic device I
> work with. Not the differential signal!
> Maybe differential signal voltage is twice as big.
>
> Bye,
> Martin
> -------------- next part --------------
> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
> Name: C3_1.zip
> Type: application/x-zip-compressed
> Size: 77267 bytes
> Desc: not available
> Url : 
> http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20051028/3bf8e71e/C3_1.bin
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>
>
> End of Ronja Digest, Vol 30, Issue 44
> ************************************* 



From sorin at bz.ines.ro  Fri Oct 28 16:01:30 2005
From: sorin at bz.ines.ro (Sorin Popa)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 18:01:30 +0300
Subject: [Ronja] Ronja Digest, Vol 30, Issue 44
References: <mailman.3305.1130509041.2010.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
Message-ID: <000b01c5dbd0$7a4722d0$0d13320a@sorin>

any ideas about RX? i think that NE5539 should be ok, work over 250Mhz...
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <ronja-request at lists.pointless.net>
To: <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2005 5:17 PM
Subject: Ronja Digest, Vol 30, Issue 44


> Send Ronja mailing list submissions to
> ronja at lists.pointless.net
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> ronja-request at lists.pointless.net
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> ronja-owner at lists.pointless.net
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Ronja digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re:  100Mhz transmiter (Martin)
>   2. Re:  100MHz transmitter (Martin)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 16:09:23 +0200
> From: Martin <asteri_x at freemail.hu>
> Subject: Re: [Ronja] 100Mhz transmiter
> To: Twibright Ronja <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
> Message-ID: <43623113.7080508 at freemail.hu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Sorin Popa ?rta:
>> TL072 from that 100Mhz transmiter can have more 10Mhz bandpass? cause in 
>> his
>> pdf he stoped at 10Mhz freq...  tks..
>
> The TL072 is only used to automatically regulate the average current, so
> it doesn't have to be fast.
>
> Today I realized, that the 100Mbit/s signals have the following
> structure. I made a capture with a LeCroy skope at work :)
> Every bit is 8 ns wide, and 4 bits that are ones, make up the fastest
> sinus pattern. That means, that the bandwith of the fastest signal has
> to be 1/(4*8ns)= 31.25MHz.
> But that's only the signal to be sinus. We need a triangle-like pattern.
> That means, we need at least 3 uneven harmonics. ( 7*31.25 = 218,75MHz)
>
> It is worth trying the BC847 as a modulator, because the Fairchild
> version said fT=300MHz typical, and the philips version sais ft=100MHz
> minimum. I didn't measure it.
> This transistor is cheap, good to handle, and possibly no high frequency
> oscillations may occure.
>
> Bye,
> Martin
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 16:17:03 +0200
> From: Martin <asteri_x at freemail.hu>
> Subject: Re: [Ronja] 100MHz transmitter
> To: Twibright Ronja <ronja at lists.pointless.net>
> Message-ID: <436232DF.1000809 at freemail.hu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I forgot the measurement data:
> It was taken between one line and a ground of an electronic device I
> work with. Not the differential signal!
> Maybe differential signal voltage is twice as big.
>
> Bye,
> Martin
> -------------- next part --------------
> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
> Name: C3_1.zip
> Type: application/x-zip-compressed
> Size: 77267 bytes
> Desc: not available
> Url : 
> http://pointless.net/pipermail/ronja/attachments/20051028/3bf8e71e/C3_1.bin
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ronja mailing list
> Ronja at lists.pointless.net
> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja
>
>
> End of Ronja Digest, Vol 30, Issue 44
> ************************************* 



From sorin at bz.ines.ro  Fri Oct 28 20:48:17 2005
From: sorin at bz.ines.ro (Sorin Popa)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 22:48:17 +0300
Subject: [Ronja] pan tilt mechanical info..
References: <mailman.3305.1130509041.2010.ronja@lists.pointless.net>
Message-ID: <000b01c5dbf8$8c5bb580$0d13320a@sorin>

anyoane try with this kind of mechanical parts?
http://www.dperception.com/pdf/PTU-D300_datasheet_new.pdf
 :)))))))
it would be great.. :)



From clock at twibright.com  Fri Oct 28 21:58:45 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 22:58:45 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] gEDA-user: gEDA DLL hell
In-Reply-To: <WorldClient-F200510282119.AA19230199@rege.org>
References: <20051027212516.0549bcd7.svenn@bjerkem.de>
	<20051028003203.4B776140825B@moria.seul.org>
	<20051028092305.GA12763@kestrel>
	<39942.129.16.67.175.1130499856.squirrel@webmail.chalmers.se>
	<20051028124855.GA17891@kestrel>
	<436223A6.5000506@mcmahill.net> <20051028143448.GA2429@kestrel>
	<WorldClient-F200510282119.AA19230199@rege.org>
Message-ID: <20051028205845.GA12634@kestrel>

On Fri, Oct 28, 2005 at 09:19:23PM +0300, Charalampos Alexopoulos wrote:
> 
> > I don't care what are the 1000 reasons why gEDA must be unusable for
> > the user. People who aren't UNIX software packaging specialists want to
> > use it. Does it surprise you?
> 
> > If I take Orcad or Eagle, I run eagle.exe and Eagle is installed in
> > the system. If I want to deinstall, I go into Windows program list,
> > select deinstall Eagle, and it's deinstalled. The same with Orcad. If
> > I want to reinstall, I first uninstall and then install. Or the program
> > says "previous version of Orcad was detected. Should I overwrite it?"
> > 
> > If Eagle or Orcad developers were able to make it, then it's possible
> > to
> > make it. So don't tell me why it's not possible and please write
> > 
> > * installation manual
> > * deinstallation manual
> > * reinstallation manual
> > 
> > to the website.
> 
> Hi Karel
> 
> I think you have not understund how an open source project works.

Open source project means that the sources are open.

> An open source project is writen by people who did that in their spare
> time for fun and they are kind enough to share their job with other
> people. A user who face a problem in using that project trying to solve

Open source doesn't have anything to do how the sources are generated.
It only describes the licensing of the sources.

For example Linux kernel is developed partially by paid developers, who
don't write it in spare time for fun, but in their working time for
living. This is an counterexample on what you are saying proving that
what you are saying is not true.

CL<
> the problem and if he find a nice solution then usally give it back to the
> project to help other users. If the user is not capable to solve the
> problem then kindly ask for help, then somebody stoping his job and spend
> some time to help him so the user have to thank him for spending his time
> in trying to help no matter if his effort have good results or not.
> 
> Demanding things in an open source project is the most sure way to dont
> have a help, sometimes you may dont have a response at all.
> 
> Regards
> Charalampos Alexopoulos


From clock at twibright.com  Fri Oct 28 22:19:41 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 23:19:41 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] gEDA-user: gEDA DLL hell
In-Reply-To: <c63cad513070f80af158b55a989dd2ea@klebsch.de>
References: <20051027212516.0549bcd7.svenn@bjerkem.de>
	<20051028003203.4B776140825B@moria.seul.org>
	<20051028092305.GA12763@kestrel>
	<39942.129.16.67.175.1130499856.squirrel@webmail.chalmers.se>
	<20051028124855.GA17891@kestrel>
	<436223A6.5000506@mcmahill.net> <20051028143448.GA2429@kestrel>
	<c63cad513070f80af158b55a989dd2ea@klebsch.de>
Message-ID: <20051028211941.GB12634@kestrel>

On Fri, Oct 28, 2005 at 07:14:30PM +0200, Mario Klebsch wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Hi!
> 
> Am 28.10.2005 um 16:34 schrieb Karel Kulhavy:
> >That's on you what you define to stay within. Choose it and then
> >write a guide that works there. Normal people don't mirror their
> >/usr/local across a WAN.
> 
> There is no such sing as a normal person.
> 
> >And both Linux and NetBSD I suppose have
> >/usr/local or /opt.
> 
> Wether or not a system does have /usr/local is a decision of the sysop 
> who administers the system. You would be right in stating, that most 

This is not true. a) it may be a decision of a standard (LHS), b) it may
a decision of distribution vendor (gentoo, debian etc.). /usr/local is
compulsory in both.

> admins do choose to have a /usr/local.
> 
> >Then write the procedure so it works on all of them. For example:
> >"if your system has /usr/local directory, do xxx, otherwise if it
> >has /opt directory and you can change the $PATH, do yyy, otherwise do
> >zzz."
> 
> A sysop is required to think before starting to type. There is no 

OK. gEDA is for sysops only. Sad. Eagle and Orcad are for ordinary users.
Then it's not possible to develop free technology with gEDA. What's the
difference between allowing only people who pay licence fee to Orcad
to hack Ronja source and allowing only people who are sysops to hack Ronja
sources?

> universal procedure, that copes with every possible (er even only every 
> likely) situation, which works for a typing monkey.
> 
> If it would be that easy, there would already be a cript for this job.
> 
> >>everyones needs.  By using automake and autoconf, geda automatically
> >>provides the sort of functionality though in its build system to help 
> >>it
> >>integrated into many of these different packaging systems.
> >
> >Intergrated? I wouldn't call this "integrated". This is just a mess.
> >Eagle or Orcad is what I would call integrated.
> 
> You are right, there is a lot of mess and I would be happy, if the open 
> source community would finally face these problems. This problem is NOT 

I don't care if they face the problem. What I care if the problem goes
away or not.

> >I don't care what are the 1000 reasons why gEDA must be unusable for
> >the user. People who aren't UNIX software packaging specialists want to
> >use it. Does it surprise you?
> 
> It requires at least some minimal skills to administer a UNIX system. 
> This is the reason, why administration is an explicit role.
> 
> BTW. in contrats to all marketing bubbling, it also requires immense 
> skills to administer windows systems.

It's irrelevant what skill administration takes. My friend's problem was
he was unable to install gattrib. My friend's problem was not system
administration issue.

> >If I take Orcad or Eagle, I run eagle.exe and Eagle is installed in
> >the system. If I want to deinstall, I go into Windows program list,
> >select deinstall Eagle, and it's deinstalled. The same with Orcad.
> 
> If you are satisfied with eagle or orcad, why don't you simplyuse one 
> of these programs?

Because they are not free software.

> It also is solvable for multi user systems, but in contrast to personal 
> systems, where the solution is the setup program, on multi user systems 
> the solution is the administrator.

The solution is:
a) during installation of the software, make a list of files written
b) make a geda-uninstall script which erases these files
c) put geda-uninstall into the same path as gschem

I have told you here how it is possible to solve it. Any more arguments why
it's impossible to solve?

> The administrator knows his users, so he is the one to decide how to 
> deal with this problem, He has to choose a strategy suited for his 
> users and he has to follow it.
> 
> So, ask your administrator, he will have the answers for you.

I am my administrator. I asked myself and didn't get any answer. What
you say is not true.

> >>Or maybe I've missed the point of your question...
> >
> >You probably missed the point. The point is: every user needs to
> >install, reinstall, and uninstall gEDA.
> 
> You missed the point: This is the admins job, not the users.
> 
> Although the admin usually does this, it often is possible to install 
> the software without admin privilidges at all.

Looks like I should drop the requirement on schematics and PCB written
in free software on Ronja, because there isn't any usable free software
on the Earth for schematics and PCB. gEDA is unusable. You need a system
administrator to draw simple circuit with resistor and connector.

This will effectively mean that Ronja will stop using gEDA and start
using Eagle and you will be able to scratch Ronja from projects using
gEDA.

We had issues with GNU Arch so we kicked it and replaced with SVN.
We had issues with TWiki so we kicked it and replaced with MediaWiki.
Now we have issues with gEDA, why can't we kick it and replace with Eagle?
If the users would opt between 100Mbps optical datalink and futile
attempts to persuade gEDA developers to make gEDA usable, what would
they choose? Verbal masturbation? No, 100Mbps datalink.

We cannot have 100% Free Software toolchain anyway. CPLD Twister is
in development. A free software fitter doesn't exist so we will have to
use a nonfree one. If a usable free software schematic editor and PCB
editor doesn't exist (schematic editor that cannot be used by ordinary
user is not a usable schematic editor), we will have to use a nonfree
one as well.

CL<
> 
> 73, Mario
> - -- 
> Mario Klebsch                                           mario at klebsch.de
> PGP-Key available at http://www.klebsch.de/public.key
> Fingerprint DSS: EE7C DBCC D9C8 5DC1 D4DB  1483 30CE 9FB2 A047 9CE0
>  Diffie-Hellman: D447 4ED6 8A10 2C65 C5E5  8B98 9464 53FF 9382 F518
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin)
> 
> iD8DBQFDYlx8MM6fsqBHnOARAjlrAKDNK5FKFWTS4Pqw1GrGyPxlPKhKwQCgz8si
> uOCKEJ9EQvc5edP4KsZUQ64=
> =HRUM
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From clock at twibright.com  Fri Oct 28 22:32:31 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 23:32:31 +0200
Subject: [Ronja] How we solved installation on Unix
Message-ID: <20051028213231.GA12762@kestrel>

Our web browser (I wrote 1/4 of it) is a single executable. Everything
is compiled in, including font data.

If admin needs to deinstall links, he types "rm `which links`".
If user needs to deinstall links he installed into his $HOME, he types
"rm `which links`".

This disproves your theores about impossibility to make a program simply
installable and uninstallable by user on UNIX.

Links works on Linux, BSD, UNIX in general, OS/2, Cygwin under Windows,
AtheOS, BeOS, FreeMint, Tru64.

http://links.twibright.com

CL<


From lucasvo at gmx.ch  Sun Oct 30 21:26:44 2005
From: lucasvo at gmx.ch (Lucas Vogelsang)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 22:26:44 +0100
Subject: [Ronja] gEDA-user: problems with geda-iso
In-Reply-To: <20051030195945.35F5F2AA07@earl-grey.cloud9.net>
References: <20051030195945.35F5F2AA07@earl-grey.cloud9.net>
Message-ID: <1130707604.7492.47.camel@localhost.localdomain>

Hi,

On Sun, 2005-10-30 at 14:59 -0500, Stuart Brorson wrote:
> The .iso image you have is missing the subdirectories.  You can verify
> this by doing ls -l in the main CD directory.  You will probably see
> no subdirectories.  
> 
Why should they be missing? I didn't delete them. I just downloaded the
image from geda.seul.org and mounted it...
> If you see a directory called InstallerGUI, cd into it and look to see
> if anything is in there. . . . .  If you can cd into it at all.
> 
and YES I have InstallerGUI...


currently I am installing geda from scratch and it turns out that I need
to install gtk 2.4.1 to run this stupid gschem which is not supported by
ubuntu distribution(I wonder how they did it in ubuntu-universe). gtk
2.6.2 doesn't works...

lucas



From clock at twibright.com  Sun Oct 30 21:23:30 2005
From: clock at twibright.com (Karel Kulhavy)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 22:23:30 +0100
Subject: [Ronja] gschem and gtk library hell
Message-ID: <20051030212330.GA511@kestrel>

Why gschem requires gtk 2.4 and doesn't work with gtk 2.6 or gtk 2.8?

Why gschem compiles with gtk 2.6 and gtk 2.8 without error and doesn't
work (segfaults)?

Why gattrib compiles with gtk 2.6 or 2.8 without error and doesn't work
(after attempt to load a file crashes the whole program with error that
symbol question mark cannot be loaded from font file)?

Lucas has Ubuntu and Ubuntu has only gtk 2.6 and 2.8, but not 2.4. What
should he do to install gEDA?

Is it possible to compile gschem statically in a way it will work? Or
does the GTK bloatware require some additional files (fonts, config
files etc.)?

Here one can clearly see that dynamic libraries bring more disadvantages
than advantages.  Every application still can require it's own unique
version of library, which takes up space on disk and in memory when the
process runs. If the application were linked statically, only the
portion of library that the application really uses would take space.
This way the complete library takes up space both on disk and in RAM.
And moreover, it makes installation of programs almost impossible task,
even with distributions! If gschem came in a source package with all
equired libraries and was compiled statically, it would always work.

I am so glad that we didn't use GTK on Links.

CL<