From stransky at clt.cz Wed Jun 4 09:14:35 2003 From: stransky at clt.cz (=?iso-8859-2?Q?Str=E1nsk=FD_Karel?=) Date: Wed Jun 4 07:15:22 2003 Subject: [Ronja] 3Com 3C900-COMBO Message-ID: <012801c32a60$925e81c0$6400a8c0@karel> Mam tu 5 kusu subj pokud by nekdo mel zajem From valter at atlas.cz Thu Jun 5 00:08:21 2003 From: valter at atlas.cz (valter) Date: Wed Jun 4 21:10:39 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Re: 3Com 3C900-COMBO In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3EDE5FC5.9010908@atlas.cz> > Subject: [Ronja] 3Com 3C900-COMBO > Mam tu 5 kusu subj pokud by nekdo mel zajem Mne by se hodily dva kusy. BTW: Nema nekdo "volne lozeny" jeden par ronja ? Klidne i jako DPS a kupa soucastek. ------------------------ Ing. Mayer Valter, Senec Slovak Republic, Europe From Seligr at sh.cvut.cz Wed Jun 4 22:34:58 2003 From: Seligr at sh.cvut.cz (Seligr@sh.cvut.cz) Date: Wed Jun 4 21:53:30 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Hokus pokus Message-ID: <3EDE6602.24072.815CF@localhost> To clock: Jak by jsi ohodnotil konstrukci publikovanou zde http://laser.webpark.cz/ronja.html Na posledn?m obr?zku je ten kmitaj?c? RX modul. D?k From klapek at kki.net.pl Thu Jun 5 10:25:21 2003 From: klapek at kki.net.pl (Tomasz Koprowski) Date: Thu Jun 5 08:25:35 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Hokus pokus In-Reply-To: <3EDE6602.24072.815CF@localhost> Message-ID: <3EDF0C81.3648.103FBB@localhost> Hi there, > http://laser.webpark.cz/ronja.html Na posledn?m obr?zku je ten I didn't get much of what have you written there, however found one thing disturbing: the "Top Secret" on one of the pictures. If I understand the Ronja licence right, all derived work should also be open-source, but maybe I just misunderstood... Hope Karel will clarify this. Greets, Tomek Koprowski From discover at fly.srk.fer.hr Thu Jun 5 11:35:04 2003 From: discover at fly.srk.fer.hr (Silvije) Date: Thu Jun 5 09:35:10 2003 Subject: [Ronja] TP face 'n stuff Message-ID: OK, for those who are trying to make a TP interface, they can find a slightly modified schematic from Higlander's original, which is now tested on 4 devices and works :)) on a http://www.silvije.tk in a RONJA Project section Silvije p.s. greetz to Clock, Highlander and all who are making RONJA. From klapek at kki.net.pl Thu Jun 5 17:29:00 2003 From: klapek at kki.net.pl (Tomasz Koprowski) Date: Thu Jun 5 15:29:10 2003 Subject: [Ronja] TP face 'n stuff In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3EDF6FCC.17770.123167@localhost> Hi, > on a http://www.silvije.tk in a RONJA Project section I have noticed you used copper for the housing of airwired RX module. What kind of soldering iron did you use to solder to the copper (type and wattage)? I remeber soldering to copper gave me really a hard time... Greets, Tomek Koprowski From discover at fly.srk.fer.hr Thu Jun 5 18:18:41 2003 From: discover at fly.srk.fer.hr (Silvije) Date: Thu Jun 5 16:19:48 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Re: TP face 'n stuff Message-ID: First I was using a big tip 60W soldering iron but when it went dead :)) I've used a gas torch used for camping 'n stuff. Silvije From clock at atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz Sun Jun 8 01:25:10 2003 From: clock at atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz (Clock) Date: Sat Jun 7 23:25:14 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Hokus pokus In-Reply-To: <3EDF0C81.3648.103FBB@localhost>; from klapek@kki.net.pl on Thu, Jun 05, 2003 at 09:25:21AM +0200 References: <3EDE6602.24072.815CF@localhost> <3EDF0C81.3648.103FBB@localhost> Message-ID: <20030608002510.C279@beton.cybernet.cz> On Thu, Jun 05, 2003 at 09:25:21AM +0200, Tomasz Koprowski wrote: > Hi there, > > > http://laser.webpark.cz/ronja.html Na posledn?m obr?zku je ten > > I didn't get much of what have you written there, however found > one thing disturbing: the "Top Secret" on one of the pictures. > If I understand the Ronja licence right, all derived work > should also be open-source, but maybe I just misunderstood... > > Hope Karel will clarify this. Yes -- this is an ordinary GPL breach. The author of the 'top secret' thing obviously broke GPL. I have already sent this case to my law consultant. The poor guy probably doesn't know that breaking 121/2000 Sb. Act (the Author's Rights Act) is a criminal offense. Cl< > > Greets, > Tomek Koprowski > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja@lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From clock at atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz Sun Jun 8 01:36:44 2003 From: clock at atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz (Clock) Date: Sat Jun 7 23:36:54 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Re: lightning In-Reply-To: ; from lars@aronsson.se on Wed, Jun 04, 2003 at 01:56:23AM +0200 References: Message-ID: <20030608003644.D279@beton.cybernet.cz> On Wed, Jun 04, 2003 at 01:56:23AM +0200, Lars Aronsson wrote: > Hi Karel, > > When installing Ronja links, do you use any lightning protector / > surge protector to avoid damage on the building's ethernet in case of > a thunderstorm? No. Ronja works the same way as ordinary TV antenna. Connected with the lightning rod on the roof, shielded cable, connected with the earthprotect in the TV set. The only difference is that Ronja doesn't catch the radiated HF energy as opposed to TV antenna so that Ronja is in fact a bit better. Cl< From xerox_irs at lvcm.com Sun Jun 8 01:07:43 2003 From: xerox_irs at lvcm.com (Daniel Kluss) Date: Sun Jun 8 08:06:25 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Hokus pokus References: <3EDE6602.24072.815CF@localhost> <3EDF0C81.3648.103FBB@localhost> <20030608002510.C279@beton.cybernet.cz> Message-ID: <000a01c32d8c$a86887c0$67056844@lv.cox.net> Whats the difference between not posting pictures, and posting half of a picture with "TOP SECRET" and posting a picture that was poorly taken and dosn't include everything? Daniel Kluss ----- Original Message ----- From: "Clock" To: "GPL free-space optical datalink" Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2003 3:25 PM Subject: Re: [Ronja] Hokus pokus On Thu, Jun 05, 2003 at 09:25:21AM +0200, Tomasz Koprowski wrote: > Hi there, > > > http://laser.webpark.cz/ronja.html Na posledn?m obr?zku je ten > > I didn't get much of what have you written there, however found > one thing disturbing: the "Top Secret" on one of the pictures. > If I understand the Ronja licence right, all derived work > should also be open-source, but maybe I just misunderstood... > > Hope Karel will clarify this. Yes -- this is an ordinary GPL breach. The author of the 'top secret' thing obviously broke GPL. I have already sent this case to my law consultant. The poor guy probably doesn't know that breaking 121/2000 Sb. Act (the Author's Rights Act) is a criminal offense. Cl< > > Greets, > Tomek Koprowski > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja@lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja _______________________________________________ Ronja mailing list Ronja@lists.pointless.net http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From clock at atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz Sun Jun 8 17:16:54 2003 From: clock at atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz (Clock) Date: Sun Jun 8 15:17:03 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Silica Gel added to the Ronja shop Message-ID: <20030608161654.A1302@beton.cybernet.cz> We have added Silica Gel into the Ronja Webshop. Cl< From zapadlo at melzer.cz Mon Jun 9 07:26:16 2003 From: zapadlo at melzer.cz (Petr Zapadlo) Date: Mon Jun 9 05:26:24 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Par dotazu Message-ID: <200306090626.16919.zapadlo@melzer.cz> Zdravim mel bych nekolik dotazu: 1) Musi byt Rx zakrytovany (pokud ho nezakrytuji, klesa mi max dosah bez optiky na cca 60cm) je to nromalni? 2) Vstupni zesilovac Rx. mam pouzity BF988, Ug2 je 3.5V , Ud je cca 4V pri Rd 560. Ma smysl jit s Rd nize aby vzrostl o Ud na tech 6V? Nebo to radsi stahnout Ug2? 3) ma vliv pouziti videozesilovace NE592 v dil8 misto dil14? 4) jaky je dosah bez optiky aby celek mel maximalni dosah 1km (cocky 13cm z ronja shopu)? 5) jakym postupem zamerujete rx tubus aby PIN dioda byla presne v ohnisku a ve smeru svazku.? Diky S pozdravem -- Petr "Zapik" Zapadlo Ing. Petr Zapadlo vedouc? odd?len? syst?mov? podpory Melzer, spol. s r.o. Doln? 71, 796 01 Prost?jov tel: 582 330 301 fax: 582 330 302 mailto: zapadlo@melzer.cz http://www.melzer.cz From clock at atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz Mon Jun 9 11:46:45 2003 From: clock at atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz (Clock) Date: Mon Jun 9 09:46:52 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Re: Ronja - retranslace In-Reply-To: <3513822766.20030531234833@iol.cz>; from michal.grunt@iol.cz on Sat, May 31, 2003 at 11:48:33PM +0200 References: <3513822766.20030531234833@iol.cz> Message-ID: <20030609104645.A241@beton.cybernet.cz> On Sat, May 31, 2003 at 11:48:33PM +0200, Michal Grunt wrote: > Zdravim, > chteli by jsme s kamarady propojit PC. Uvazoval jsem o bezdratu jako > pouziva czfreenet, nebo o Vasem pristroji Ronja. > Ta druha varianta by se mi libi vice, protoze jeste kdyz jsem chodil > na stredni tak jsem obcas take neco bastlil... je otazka jestli to co > postavim bude fungovat :) Pokud to postavite podle navodu, tak to fungovat bude. > Zajimala by me jedna vec. V pripade ze na sebe s kamaradem primo > nevidime... sla by udelat relranslace (kdyz pominu zrcadlo) tim > zpusobem, ze bych mel v nejakem miste kde jsme videt oba, dve Ronji > propojene mezi sebou (TX, na RX a opacne) bez toho aby tam muselo byt > nejake PC ktere by to ridilo? Myslim si ze by to nemusel byt problem, > nebo se pletu? Ano, zkouseli jsme to tak a funguje to. Staci RX a TX a AUI tam vubec nemusi byt. > V pripade stavby, mohl bych se na Vas obratit kdyby nastal nejaky > problem? (kdyz budu delat elektroniku podle Vas, predpokladam ze > problem nebude, spis bych to videl v te konstrukcni casi). Muzete se obratit sem - na mailing list. Cl< From clock at atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz Mon Jun 9 11:47:57 2003 From: clock at atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz (Clock) Date: Mon Jun 9 09:48:02 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Re: Ronja - retranslace In-Reply-To: <413936960.20030531235028@iol.cz>; from michal.grunt@iol.cz on Sat, May 31, 2003 at 11:50:28PM +0200 References: <3513822766.20030531234833@iol.cz> <413936960.20030531235028@iol.cz> Message-ID: <20030609104757.C241@beton.cybernet.cz> On Sat, May 31, 2003 at 11:50:28PM +0200, Michal Grunt wrote: > Prece jenom jeste jeden dotaz: > existuje uz funkcni plosnak nebo je nutne 'hnizdo'. Lide si s plosnaky ruzne hraji se stridavymi uspechy, ale ja to moc nesleduju a plosnak jsem jeste nedelal. Proctete si archivy mailinglistu, neco tam urcite najdete. Cl< From bobriks at volny.cz Mon Jun 9 12:03:37 2003 From: bobriks at volny.cz (bobriks@volny.cz) Date: Mon Jun 9 10:03:40 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Par dotazu In-Reply-To: <200306090626.16919.zapadlo@melzer.cz> References: <200306090626.16919.zapadlo@melzer.cz> Message-ID: ----- P?VODN? ZPR?VA ----- Od: "Petr Zapadlo" > 4) jaky je dosah bez optiky aby celek mel maximalni > dosah 1km (cocky 13cm z ronja shopu)? As I know, for 1km during nice weather, the range without lens should be 1m. Exact infos please by Clock. > 5) jakym postupem zamerujete rx tubus aby PIN dioda > byla presne v ohnisku a ve smeru svazku.? http://czfree.net/forum/showthread.php?postid=43432#post43432 http://czfree.net/forum/showthread.php?postid=43798#post43798 -- Ziskejte kvalitu, kterou si zaslouzite. Za minimalni mesicni poplatek vam nabizime Antivir, Antispam nebo dalsi kapacitu pro vas Mailbox. Vice na: http://sluzby.volny.cz/product/mailpaid/ From Seligr at sh.cvut.cz Mon Jun 9 12:03:35 2003 From: Seligr at sh.cvut.cz (Seligr@sh.cvut.cz) Date: Mon Jun 9 10:03:45 2003 Subject: [Ronja] TOP SECRET vs licence Message-ID: <3EE46987.20097.1775C8@localhost> Clok: Jakozto autor zapojeni skryteho pod sedivym obdelnickem s napisem top secret, publikovanem na laser.webpark.cz, bych rad vedel proti cemu jsem se prohresil, kdyz jsem nesouhlasil s jeho publikovanim. Podotykam k tomu, ze tato cast byla vyvinuta zcela nezavisle na Ronje a vlastni zapojeni se Ronje nepodoba ani elektricky ani vzhledem. Viditelne soucastky jsou koaxialni "cast" AUI interfacu dtto a slouzi k pripojeni vlastni elektroniky. Vzhledem k trivialnosti zapojeni jsem nepovazoval za nutne prikladat schema. A hlavne tento konkretni modul nehodlam nikomu prodavat, pokud jsem v nekom vzbudil takovy dojem, tak se omlouvam. Cela tato podsekce o ronje vznikla jako reakce na skuhrani debateru na narocnost vyroby puvodnich vrabcich hnizd a nebyla urcena na komercni ucely. Soude podle vzrustu poptavky po krystalovych oscilatorech 1MHz v prazskych maloobchodech, se toto setkalo s kladnym ohlasem a nekolika lidem to prislo vhod. V nasledujicich tydnech jsem mel v planu doplnit na vyse uvedenych strankach dokumentaci k vyrobe plosnych spoju a upravy dalsich modulu. Pokud ne/dostanu od Cl. rozumne vyjadreni, tak ze svych stranek vymazu vse s ronjou souvisejici. From clock at atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz Mon Jun 9 14:01:32 2003 From: clock at atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz (Clock) Date: Mon Jun 9 12:01:39 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Par dotazu In-Reply-To: <200306090626.16919.zapadlo@melzer.cz>; from zapadlo@melzer.cz on Mon, Jun 09, 2003 at 06:26:16AM +0200 References: <200306090626.16919.zapadlo@melzer.cz> Message-ID: <20030609130132.B394@beton.cybernet.cz> On Mon, Jun 09, 2003 at 06:26:16AM +0200, Petr Zapadlo wrote: > Zdravim > > mel bych nekolik dotazu: > > 1) Musi byt Rx zakrytovany (pokud ho nezakrytuji, klesa mi max dosah bez > optiky na cca 60cm) je to nromalni? Musi byt nutne zakrytovany, a to kvalitne. > 2) Vstupni zesilovac Rx. mam pouzity BF988, Ug2 je 3.5V , Ud je cca 4V pri Rd > 560. Ma smysl jit s Rd nize aby vzrostl o Ud na tech 6V? Nebo to radsi > stahnout Ug2? Nastavuje se to pomoci Rd -- zmensete Rd. > 3) ma vliv pouziti videozesilovace NE592 v dil8 misto dil14? Asi ne. > 4) jaky je dosah bez optiky aby celek mel maximalni dosah 1km (cocky 13cm z > ronja shopu)? My jsme meli na zemi v neprilis osvetlenem pokoji asi 2.5m s HPWT-BD00 a SFH203 (nominalni maximalni dosah 1km). > 5) jakym postupem zamerujete rx tubus aby PIN dioda byla presne v ohnisku a ve > smeru svazku.? http://ronja.twibright.com/metropolis/installing.php * Connect 200mV DC voltmeter to the measurement port, switch on the device (plug into AUI), put the RX focus into the middle, and catch the signal with rough adjustment (M10 nuts), then tighten the M10 nuts down * Get the maximum RX level using fine adjustment. Get the maximum RX level using RX focus. Tighten down the RX focus (M4 nuts). Get the maximum level using fine adjustment again. Cl< From clock at atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz Mon Jun 9 14:27:42 2003 From: clock at atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz (Clock) Date: Mon Jun 9 12:27:45 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Zamerovani odrazkou na 1.7km Message-ID: <20030609132742.A434@beton.cybernet.cz> Ten spoj v Kecskemetu na 1.685 kilometru byl zamerovanej na tuhle odrazku: http://ronja.azrael.sk/gallery/installations/kecskemet/thumb/im000112-1-0.html Bojim se Stando, ze ty 4 lidi, CBcka a digitalni osciloskop byly jen nadstandardni luxus :) Cl< From clock at atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz Mon Jun 9 14:28:12 2003 From: clock at atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz (Clock) Date: Mon Jun 9 12:28:13 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Par dotazu In-Reply-To: ; from bobriks@volny.cz on Mon, Jun 09, 2003 at 11:03:37AM +0200 References: <200306090626.16919.zapadlo@melzer.cz> Message-ID: <20030609132812.D394@beton.cybernet.cz> On Mon, Jun 09, 2003 at 11:03:37AM +0200, bobriks@volny.cz wrote: > ----- P?VODN? ZPR?VA ----- > Od: "Petr Zapadlo" > > > 4) jaky je dosah bez optiky aby celek mel maximalni > > dosah 1km (cocky 13cm z ronja shopu)? > As I know, for 1km during nice weather, > the range without lens should be 1m. > Exact infos please by Clock. > > > 5) jakym postupem zamerujete rx tubus aby PIN dioda > > byla presne v ohnisku a ve smeru svazku.? > http://czfree.net/forum/showthread.php?postid=43432#post43432 > http://czfree.net/forum/showthread.php?postid=43798#post43798 Tady Stando popisujes metodu subjektivniho hlaseni sily bodu. Tuhle pouzili na 1.7km lince s Ronja 10M Metropolis (nominalni maximalni dosah 1.3km) v Kecskemetu a vubec jim to neslo zamerit! Pak se to zamerilo na odrazkove pole ze 4 odrazek co jsou na webshopu jako RR-16 a slo to naprosto bez problemu. Takze ja bych metodu subjektivniho hlaseni nedoporucoval. Navic vyzaduje 2 lidi. S odrazkami nebo odrazkovymi poli jde cela trasa vcelku rychle zamerit pouze v jedne osobe. Gumova mezikruzi jsou od zacatku soucasti puvodniho designu Ronja 10M Metropolis. Jinak gratuluju ke zprovozneni spoje :) Kdy pojede ten druhy? Cl< From bobriks at volny.cz Mon Jun 9 16:19:14 2003 From: bobriks at volny.cz (bobriks@volny.cz) Date: Mon Jun 9 14:19:17 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Par dotazu In-Reply-To: <20030609132812.D394@beton.cybernet.cz> References: <200306090626.16919.zapadlo@melzer.cz> <20030609132812.D394@beton.cybernet.cz> Message-ID: <508c8996e92d1a5b12c83e627343dc45@www3.mail.volny.cz> Diky ti, Clocku, za podporu! :-) Subjekitvni hlaseni sily bodu je skutecne jen na nejhrubsi zamereni. Docela dobry napad se mi jevi s tou matnici co vymyslel Vasek Stepan. No a doladovat jednoznacne podle meraku!!! Osciloskop, CB a 5 lidi bylo proto, ze jsme sli totalne do neznama. Ukazalo se, ze to vubec nebyl luxus. ;-) Vyhrali jsme si pilne celou noc. Priznavam, ze z velke casti i kvuli moucham v mechanickem uchyceni na podpery (!!!) samotne Ondrovy Ronji. Jeji konstrukce sama o sobe vychazi v maximalni mire z tvych doporuceni a po doplneni gumovych mezikruzi ji neni v zasade co vytknout. Jednu osobu na montaz bych presto videl s prehledem az kdyz bude mit za sebou tak deset praktickych instalaci, pred sebou naprosto vychytanou mechaniku a prepravu mezi body na vysoko zavesenem kyvadle. :-)) Jako odrazky jsme pouzili klasicke autotrojuhelniky s odrazkovym olemovanim. Skutecne z obou stran spoje jsme vsak odraz na protejsku ani nezahledli. Mozna je klicem k uspechu prave vetsi souvisla plocha odrazek. Jinak vzdalenost 1.7km v Kecskemetu je impozantni. Obdivuji. Nas spoj jeste neprovozujeme, musime dopilovat mechaniku. Chtel bych jej stihnout rozjet do prelomu cervna/cervence. Jenze zkouskove, dovolene, zajezdy, .... Uvidime. V kazdem pripade te pak radi pozveme na znalecke posouzeni! S. Od: "Clock" Komu: "GPL free-space optical datalink" P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Par dotazu Datum: 9.6.2003 - 13:28:17 > Tady Stando popisujes metodu subjektivniho hlaseni sily > bodu. Tuhle pouzili na 1.7km lince s Ronja 10M Metropolis > (nominalni maximalni dosah 1.3km) v Kecskemetu a vubec > jim to neslo zamerit! Pak se to zamerilo na odrazkove pole > ze 4 odrazek co jsou na webshopu jako RR-16 a slo to > naprosto bez problemu. Takze ja bych metodu subjektivniho > hlaseni nedoporucoval. > > Navic vyzaduje 2 lidi. S odrazkami nebo odrazkovymi > poli jde cela trasa vcelku rychle zamerit pouze v jedne > osobe. > > Gumova mezikruzi jsou od zacatku soucasti puvodniho > designu Ronja 10M Metropolis. > > Jinak gratuluju ke zprovozneni spoje :) Kdy pojede ten > druhy? > > Cl< -- Ziskejte kvalitu, kterou si zaslouzite. Za minimalni mesicni poplatek vam nabizime Antivir, Antispam nebo dalsi kapacitu pro vas Mailbox. Vice na: http://sluzby.volny.cz/product/mailpaid/ From farkas at szm.sk Mon Jun 9 18:43:04 2003 From: farkas at szm.sk (Richard Farkas) Date: Mon Jun 9 16:48:50 2003 Subject: [Ronja] [RE] TOP SECRET vs licence Message-ID: <11735321712.20030609174304@szm.sk> Dobry den, > Pokud ne/dostanu od Cl. rozumne vyjadreni, tak ze svych stranek > vymazu vse s ronjou souvisejici. Toto mi pripomina podupkavajuce male deti. Ako vidim, malichernost nie je len Slovensky problem :( Myslim, ze v GNU/GPL nejde len o predavanie, ale aj o uzivanie. Takze ak niekto pouziva nejaku cast Ronji s vlastnym vylepsenim, mal by to vylepsenie poskytnut verejnosti. Napis "TOP SECRET" tomu nenasvedcuje, ale > V nasledujicich tydnech jsem mel v planu doplnit na vyse uvedenych > strankach dokumentaci k vyrobe plosnych spoju a upravy dalsich > modulu. takze v tomto pripade TOP SECRET asi znamenalo len "zverejnim neskor". -- S pozdravom, Richard Farkas mailto:farkas@szm.sk From p.kral at sh.cvut.cz Mon Jun 9 18:52:18 2003 From: p.kral at sh.cvut.cz (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Pavel_Kr=E1l?=) Date: Mon Jun 9 16:52:23 2003 Subject: [Ronja] [RE] TOP SECRET vs licence References: <11735321712.20030609174304@szm.sk> Message-ID: <039301c32e9f$1b77f530$18762093@pkral> souvisejici. > > Toto mi pripomina podupkavajuce male deti. Ako vidim, malichernost nie > je len Slovensky problem :( > > Myslim, ze v GNU/GPL nejde len o predavanie, ale aj o uzivanie. Takze > ak niekto pouziva nejaku cast Ronji s vlastnym vylepsenim, mal by to > vylepsenie poskytnut verejnosti. Napis "TOP SECRET" tomu nenasvedcuje, > ale > S autorem jsem mluvil osobne, projekt laserove modulace nema s Ronjou nic spolecneho, pracuje na zcela jinem principu a ani nepouziva AUI interface ale TP ostatne staci pokud se podivate na zminovane webove stranky, to co ma autor spolecneho s Ronjou je jeji modifikace vylepsujici AUI a toto zverejnene je (viz sekce download). pk From clock at atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz Tue Jun 10 00:13:44 2003 From: clock at atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz (Clock) Date: Mon Jun 9 22:13:48 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Par dotazu In-Reply-To: <508c8996e92d1a5b12c83e627343dc45@www3.mail.volny.cz>; from bobriks@volny.cz on Mon, Jun 09, 2003 at 03:19:14PM +0200 References: <200306090626.16919.zapadlo@melzer.cz> <20030609132812.D394@beton.cybernet.cz> <508c8996e92d1a5b12c83e627343dc45@www3.mail.volny.cz> Message-ID: <20030609231344.A924@beton.cybernet.cz> On Mon, Jun 09, 2003 at 03:19:14PM +0200, bobriks@volny.cz wrote: > Diky ti, Clocku, za podporu! :-) Subjekitvni hlaseni sily bodu je > skutecne jen na nejhrubsi zamereni. Docela dobry napad se mi jevi > s tou matnici co vymyslel Vasek Stepan. No a doladovat > jednoznacne podle meraku!!! > > Osciloskop, CB a 5 lidi bylo proto, ze jsme sli totalne do > neznama. Ukazalo se, ze to vubec nebyl luxus. ;-) Vyhrali jsme si > pilne celou noc. Priznavam, ze z velke casti i kvuli moucham v > mechanickem uchyceni na podpery (!!!) samotne Ondrovy Ronji. > Jeji konstrukce sama o sobe vychazi v maximalni mire z tvych > doporuceni a po doplneni gumovych mezikruzi ji neni v zasade co No moje, uz asi 3/4 roku nezmenena konstrukce, viz http://ronja.twibright.com, vypada podstatne jinak. Mam ji tady a jsem s ni naprosto spokojen, slo to zamerit uz od zacatku bezproblemove. Co napriklad u Ondry Tesare dle meho nazoru hrube nevychazi z mych doporuceni jsou ty plastovy trubky, ktery si rikaj o pozar, stejne jako se na czfree se uz nekomu podarilo uvest obejvak pri experimentech s cockama do pozaru plamenama. Nehlede na to, ze tenhle mizernej kanalizacni termoplastik je primo delanej na to, aby to casem uhybalo. Nevadi mi kdyz si lidi stavej mechaniku jinak, kdyz si pak stezujou ze jim to nechodi (ted je issue zrovna u Deuho a tam jsou drzaky dost masivni) tak je odkazu na prislusnou sekci v navodu, ale netvrdte, ze to je podle mojich doporuceni :) Cl< From electropt at hotmail.com Tue Jun 10 16:15:20 2003 From: electropt at hotmail.com (Electro PT) Date: Tue Jun 10 15:11:52 2003 Subject: [Ronja] TP face 'n stuff References: Message-ID: Hi Would it be possible to change the MC3486 and MC3487 for the MAX3460? What do you think? It's one less IC and since Maxim gives free samples... :o) Regards, ElectroPT ----- Original Message ----- From: "Silvije" To: Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2003 9:35 AM Subject: [Ronja] TP face 'n stuff > > OK, for those who are trying to make a TP interface, they can find a > slightly modified schematic from Higlander's original, which is now tested > on 4 devices and works :)) > > on a http://www.silvije.tk in a RONJA Project section > > > Silvije > > p.s. greetz to Clock, Highlander and all who are making RONJA. > > From highlander_____ at hotmail.com Tue Jun 10 20:56:59 2003 From: highlander_____ at hotmail.com (Highlander) Date: Tue Jun 10 18:58:34 2003 Subject: [Ronja] TP face 'n stuff References: Message-ID: I Think, It can be used. Dont forget for good Ucc blocking. Use many ceramic capacitors. This driver can deliver high current (in peak) to capacitance of TP cable. Highlander. ----- Original Message ----- From: Electro PT To: GPL free-space optical datalink Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 4:15 PM Subject: Re: [Ronja] TP face 'n stuff > Hi > > Would it be possible to change the MC3486 and MC3487 for the MAX3460? > > What do you think? It's one less IC and since Maxim gives free samples... > :o) > > > Regards, > > ElectroPT > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Silvije" > To: > Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2003 9:35 AM > Subject: [Ronja] TP face 'n stuff > > > > > > OK, for those who are trying to make a TP interface, they can find a > > slightly modified schematic from Higlander's original, which is now tested > > on 4 devices and works :)) > > > > on a http://www.silvije.tk in a RONJA Project section > > > > > > Silvije > > > > p.s. greetz to Clock, Highlander and all who are making RONJA. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja@lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > From michal.grunt at iol.cz Tue Jun 10 21:36:56 2003 From: michal.grunt at iol.cz (Michal Grunt) Date: Tue Jun 10 19:37:03 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Napajeni RX a TX Message-ID: <001201c32f7f$48cc3380$152ea8c0@x7i3g3> Zdravim, jak je reseno napajeni RX a TX (puvodni Clockova verze s AUI)? Musi se to tahat extra dratem z AUI? Nebylo by ho mozno zakomponovat napajeni do koaxu jako to maji napr. televizni anteny? Michal Grunt From p.kral at sh.cvut.cz Tue Jun 10 21:39:30 2003 From: p.kral at sh.cvut.cz (=?iso-8859-2?Q?Pavel_Kr=E1l?=) Date: Tue Jun 10 19:39:52 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Napajeni RX a TX References: <001201c32f7f$48cc3380$152ea8c0@x7i3g3> Message-ID: <004801c32f7f$ad3a7f70$18762093@pkral> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michal Grunt" To: "GPL free-space optical datalink" Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 8:36 PM Subject: [Ronja] Napajeni RX a TX > Zdravim, > jak je reseno napajeni RX a TX (puvodni Clockova verze s AUI)? Musi se to > tahat extra dratem z AUI? Nebylo by ho mozno zakomponovat napajeni do koaxu > jako to maji napr. televizni anteny? > > Michal Grunt > > No pokud se podivate do schematu, uvidite ze s AUI leze jen 2x koax RX-> a ->TX, na jednom stineni je 12V na jednom GND. From discover at fly.srk.fer.hr Wed Jun 11 10:59:28 2003 From: discover at fly.srk.fer.hr (Silvije) Date: Wed Jun 11 08:59:32 2003 Subject: [Ronja] RE: TP face 'n stuff Message-ID: Yes, you can use MAXIM chip ... but I had no luck ordering free samples from maxim ... got nothing ... ... Texas Instruments and Motorola sent me a lot of ICs for free :)) Syl From michal.grunt at iol.cz Wed Jun 11 20:56:31 2003 From: michal.grunt at iol.cz (Michal Grunt) Date: Wed Jun 11 18:58:13 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Konektor na RT, TX Message-ID: <001801c33043$06322ec0$152ea8c0@x7i3g3> Co pouzit na AUI misto 'cokolady' (konektor nahore na AUI) "F panelovou zastrcku s centralni matici"? (maji to na sobe satelitni prijimace jako konektor na antenu). Podle katalogu GESu je to polozka FB EM. http://wwww.ges.cz/katalog2002/c-12cd.pdf Strana 12-4. Zda se mi to lepsi nez svorkovnice, protoze kdyz se bude s AUI obcas soupat, tak se muzou kabely ve svorkach ulomit. To same bych dal asi na RX a TX - snadna montaz... Neni na tom neco spatneho? Ale zase kdyz se to pouziva u satelitni techniky... From p.kral at sh.cvut.cz Wed Jun 11 21:05:09 2003 From: p.kral at sh.cvut.cz (=?iso-8859-2?Q?Pavel_Kr=E1l?=) Date: Wed Jun 11 19:05:12 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Konektor na RT, TX References: <001801c33043$06322ec0$152ea8c0@x7i3g3> Message-ID: <003201c33043$ff939530$18762093@pkral> > Co pouzit na AUI misto 'cokolady' (konektor nahore na AUI) > "F panelovou zastrcku s centralni matici"? (maji to na sobe satelitni > prijimace jako konektor na antenu). Podle katalogu GESu je to polozka FB EM. > http://wwww.ges.cz/katalog2002/c-12cd.pdf > Strana 12-4. > > Zda se mi to lepsi nez svorkovnice, protoze kdyz se bude s AUI obcas soupat, > tak se muzou kabely ve svorkach ulomit. > > To same bych dal asi na RX a TX - snadna montaz... > > Neni na tom neco spatneho? Ale zase kdyz se to pouziva u satelitni > techniky... > > Zbytecne drahe, pouzijte cinche, 10MHz je porad dost malo na to aby se musely pouzivat Fka From michal.grunt at iol.cz Wed Jun 11 21:24:54 2003 From: michal.grunt at iol.cz (Michal Grunt) Date: Wed Jun 11 19:25:00 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Konektor na RT, TX Message-ID: <000601c33046$c478c940$152ea8c0@x7i3g3> Bohuzel s tima mam dost spatne zkusenosti (u audio techniky). Ty levnejsi jsou k nicemu. Kdyz se paji tak se roztavi plast ktery drzi kolik a pote je problem s kontaktem (plati hlavne u samce). Ty drazsi celo-kovove jsou lepsi, ale kdyz srovnam tyto ceny s F konektorama tak F konektor pri cene 10Kc (jak samec tak samice) vychazi o polovinu levneji. -----P?vodn? zpr?va----- Od: Pavel Kr?l Komu: GPL free-space optical datalink Datum: 11. ?ervna 2003 20:06 P?edm?t: Re: [Ronja] Konektor na RT, TX > >> Co pouzit na AUI misto 'cokolady' (konektor nahore na AUI) >> "F panelovou zastrcku s centralni matici"? (maji to na sobe satelitni >> prijimace jako konektor na antenu). Podle katalogu GESu je to polozka FB EM. >> http://wwww.ges.cz/katalog2002/c-12cd.pdf >> Strana 12-4. >> >> Zda se mi to lepsi nez svorkovnice, protoze kdyz se bude s AUI obcas soupat, >> tak se muzou kabely ve svorkach ulomit. >> >> To same bych dal asi na RX a TX - snadna montaz... >> >> Neni na tom neco spatneho? Ale zase kdyz se to pouziva u satelitni >> techniky... >> >> > >Zbytecne drahe, pouzijte cinche, 10MHz je porad dost malo na to aby se musely pouzivat Fka > > >_______________________________________________ >Ronja mailing list >Ronja@lists.pointless.net >http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From michal.grunt at iol.cz Fri Jun 13 23:13:33 2003 From: michal.grunt at iol.cz (Michal Grunt) Date: Fri Jun 13 21:17:02 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Pajeni do krabicky - dlouhe Message-ID: <005f01c331e8$c1a07d00$152ea8c0@x7i3g3> Muze mi nekdo ze zucasnenych rici, jak se mu podarilo pajet neco do krabicky pistolovou pajkou? Sehnal jsem si 0,5mm CU plech. Po narysovani, vystrizeni a naohybani, jsem se pustil do pajeni krabicky. Uz s timhle jsem mel s 75VA pistolovou pajkou znacne problemy. Jsem si myslel, ze to bylo tim, ze jsem pajel dohromady dva plechy a kdyz budu pajet jenom kus dratu ze to bude OK. Jenomze... pajku jsem mel na plechu pridrzenou snad 5minut (zacal se mi umelohmotny kryt pajky pomalu tavit v ruce) a plech se ne a ne poradne prohrat, aby se cin roztekl. Samozrejme jsem pajkou smrdlal abych tomu pomohl, nicmene to bylo k nicemu. Ona se sice udela jakasi kapka, ktera na oko vypada ze je OK, ale kdyz jsem k tomu po dalsich 5ti minutach pripajel drat a po vychladnuti jsem za drat skubnul, tak jsem vyskub z krabicky i cin o kterem jsem si myslel ze uz je na dobro spojen s krabickou. Dalsi problem nastava s tim, ze kdyz se krabicka poradne rozehreje aby se cin mohl chytit (s pistolovou pajkou to je defakto necapacka - chtelo by to 150W+) tak se mi zacalo tavit lepidlo kterym jsou prilepeny ledky a kabely (detail s kterym jsem naprosto nepocital i kdyz je to logicke - zajimave, ze autorovy to problemy nedelalo). U malych krabicek jako jsou tyto, kdyz je potreba do ni neco sebemensiho napajet tak se musi misto pajeni poradne rozehrat. Tim ze to je CU tak se defakto rozehreje na teplotu blizkou taveni cinu cela krabicka. Ne ze by se cin na druhe strane krabicky roztekal, ale moc k tomu nechyby. Absolutne nechapu jak nekdo mohl prilepit kabel a pote priletovat stineni hned pod lepidlo. To podle me neni pripajene, zkuste vzit kleste a za spoj trochu vzit. Myslim ze zjistite ze cin se ke krabicce pouze prilepil. Zkousel jsem povrch kde se bude pajet trochu zdrsnit. Cin (alespon to tak vypada) prilnul, ale nejsem schopnej k tomu pripajet drat - jinak receno cin na krabicce uz poradne nerozehreju. Kdyz vemu na pajku dalsi kus cinu a snazeje se ho vpravit do toho co je na krabicce, tak to opet vypada ze se to k sobe chytlo, ale bylo to jenom zdani, protoze pod lupou to uz tak nevypada - krom toho ten drat jde snadno vyskubnout. Mohl bych to udelat tak ze bych plech poradne neprohral... ono by to urcite nejakou dobu fungovalo, ale po case by se zacaly projevovat studene spoje... jediny reseni vidim v tom, ze nez prilepim diody a kabely, tak vemu 150W velkou pajku a pripravim si krabicku tak aby s ni cumely dratky na ktere se pak priletuji IO a dalsi veci. Jinak si myslim, ze ten kdo to cele delal pistolovou pajkou, s tim bude mit v budoucnu urcite problemy, protoze tato pajka nedokaze dostatecne prohrat 0,5mm CU plech. Mozna ze kdyby se pouzil treba 0,3 pocinovany zelezny plech ze by to slo, ale to pak zase nema zadnou mechanickou pevnost. Jediny reseni bych videl (s pistolovou pajkou) v pouziti cuprextitu misto plechu, ktery by byl spajen do tvaru krabicky. Jenomze to je ponekud drahe. Takze to vypada tak, ze se zitra skocim mrknou do obchodu po velke 150W+ pajce. V budoucnu se urcite vyuzije (treba az clovek bude na baraku pajet okapy :)). From clock at atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz Sat Jun 14 08:51:18 2003 From: clock at atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz (Clock) Date: Fri Jun 13 22:50:54 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Pajeni do krabicky - dlouhe In-Reply-To: <005f01c331e8$c1a07d00$152ea8c0@x7i3g3>; from michal.grunt@iol.cz on Fri, Jun 13, 2003 at 10:13:33PM +0200 References: <005f01c331e8$c1a07d00$152ea8c0@x7i3g3> Message-ID: <20030614075117.A6949@beton.cybernet.cz> Ja jsem to nedelal z medeneho plechu ale zelezneho pocinovaneho 0.7mm tusim a je to uplne v pohode. Zkuste vzit do kazde ruky jednu pajku, tim to mozna utahnete. Cl< On Fri, Jun 13, 2003 at 10:13:33PM +0200, Michal Grunt wrote: > Muze mi nekdo ze zucasnenych rici, jak se mu podarilo pajet neco do krabicky > pistolovou pajkou? > > Sehnal jsem si 0,5mm CU plech. Po narysovani, vystrizeni a naohybani, jsem > se pustil do pajeni krabicky. Uz s timhle jsem mel s 75VA pistolovou pajkou > znacne problemy. Jsem si myslel, ze to bylo tim, ze jsem pajel dohromady dva > plechy a kdyz budu pajet jenom kus dratu ze to bude OK. Jenomze... pajku > jsem mel na plechu pridrzenou snad 5minut (zacal se mi umelohmotny kryt > pajky pomalu tavit v ruce) a plech se ne a ne poradne prohrat, aby se cin > roztekl. Samozrejme jsem pajkou smrdlal abych tomu pomohl, nicmene to bylo k > nicemu. Ona se sice udela jakasi kapka, ktera na oko vypada ze je OK, ale > kdyz jsem k tomu po dalsich 5ti minutach pripajel drat a po vychladnuti jsem > za drat skubnul, tak jsem vyskub z krabicky i cin o kterem jsem si myslel ze > uz je na dobro spojen s krabickou. Dalsi problem nastava s tim, ze kdyz se > krabicka poradne rozehreje aby se cin mohl chytit (s pistolovou pajkou to je > defakto necapacka - chtelo by to 150W+) tak se mi zacalo tavit lepidlo > kterym jsou prilepeny ledky a kabely (detail s kterym jsem naprosto > nepocital i kdyz je to logicke - zajimave, ze autorovy to problemy > nedelalo). U malych krabicek jako jsou tyto, kdyz je potreba do ni neco > sebemensiho napajet tak se musi misto pajeni poradne rozehrat. Tim ze to je > CU tak se defakto rozehreje na teplotu blizkou taveni cinu cela krabicka. Ne > ze by se cin na druhe strane krabicky roztekal, ale moc k tomu nechyby. > Absolutne nechapu jak nekdo mohl prilepit kabel a pote priletovat stineni > hned pod lepidlo. To podle me neni pripajene, zkuste vzit kleste a za spoj > trochu vzit. Myslim ze zjistite ze cin se ke krabicce pouze prilepil. > > Zkousel jsem povrch kde se bude pajet trochu zdrsnit. Cin (alespon to tak > vypada) prilnul, ale nejsem schopnej k tomu pripajet drat - jinak receno > cin na krabicce uz poradne nerozehreju. Kdyz vemu na pajku dalsi kus cinu a > snazeje se ho vpravit do toho co je na krabicce, tak to opet vypada ze se to > k sobe chytlo, ale bylo to jenom zdani, protoze pod lupou to uz tak > nevypada - krom toho ten drat jde snadno vyskubnout. > > Mohl bych to udelat tak ze bych plech poradne neprohral... ono by to urcite > nejakou dobu fungovalo, ale po case by se zacaly projevovat studene spoje... > jediny reseni vidim v tom, ze nez prilepim diody a kabely, tak vemu 150W > velkou pajku a pripravim si krabicku tak aby s ni cumely dratky na ktere se > pak priletuji IO a dalsi veci. > > Jinak si myslim, ze ten kdo to cele delal pistolovou pajkou, s tim bude > mit v budoucnu urcite problemy, protoze tato pajka nedokaze dostatecne > prohrat 0,5mm CU plech. Mozna ze kdyby se pouzil treba 0,3 pocinovany > zelezny plech ze by to slo, ale to pak zase nema zadnou mechanickou pevnost. > > Jediny reseni bych videl (s pistolovou pajkou) v pouziti cuprextitu misto > plechu, ktery by byl spajen do tvaru krabicky. Jenomze to je ponekud drahe. > Takze to vypada tak, ze se zitra skocim mrknou do obchodu po velke 150W+ > pajce. V budoucnu se urcite vyuzije (treba az clovek bude na baraku pajet > okapy :)). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja@lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From highlander_____ at hotmail.com Sat Jun 14 00:52:40 2003 From: highlander_____ at hotmail.com (Highlander) Date: Fri Jun 13 22:54:58 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Pajeni do krabicky - dlouhe References: <005f01c331e8$c1a07d00$152ea8c0@x7i3g3> Message-ID: Mn?l jsi pou??t plech 0,2 mm nebo 0,1 mm. To d? p?ece rozum ?e 0,5 Cu plech asi t??ko oh?eje? pistolovou p?je?kou,... Ne? n?co d?lam tak nejd??ve p?em??l?m ne ? Jo a pou??v?? taky n?jak? druh tavidla ? Podle toho jak to popisuje? mi to p?ipad? ?e neum?? p?jet,.. Co takhle kdyby jsi pou?il t?eba mosazn? plech,.... Nebo t?eba ten ocelovej poc?novanej ... Sta?ilo by sehnat si n?jak? star? kan?lov? voli?e ze star?ch televiz?,.. S tou v?konnou p?je?kou jsi to vystihl,.. Kdy? chce? pou??t 0,5 plech tak si se?e? klasickou 100W p?je?ku na okapy,.. M? dostate?nou tepelnou kapacitu, aby to stihla oh??t d??v ne? moc vychladne,.. Norm?ln? trafop?je?ka NEM? skoro ??dnou tepelnou kapacitu... Tak?e se nediv, ?e se ti to ani neoh?eje,.. Pro? si nep?e?te? clockovo n?vod ? Tam je tu?im naps?no co a jak p?esn? pou??t,... Highlander. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michal Grunt" To: "GPL free-space optical datalink" Sent: Friday, June 13, 2003 10:13 PM Subject: [Ronja] Pajeni do krabicky - dlouhe > Muze mi nekdo ze zucasnenych rici, jak se mu podarilo pajet neco do krabicky > pistolovou pajkou? > > Sehnal jsem si 0,5mm CU plech. Po narysovani, vystrizeni a naohybani, jsem > se pustil do pajeni krabicky. Uz s timhle jsem mel s 75VA pistolovou pajkou > znacne problemy. Jsem si myslel, ze to bylo tim, ze jsem pajel dohromady dva > plechy a kdyz budu pajet jenom kus dratu ze to bude OK. Jenomze... pajku > jsem mel na plechu pridrzenou snad 5minut (zacal se mi umelohmotny kryt > pajky pomalu tavit v ruce) a plech se ne a ne poradne prohrat, aby se cin > roztekl. Samozrejme jsem pajkou smrdlal abych tomu pomohl, nicmene to bylo k > nicemu. Ona se sice udela jakasi kapka, ktera na oko vypada ze je OK, ale > kdyz jsem k tomu po dalsich 5ti minutach pripajel drat a po vychladnuti jsem > za drat skubnul, tak jsem vyskub z krabicky i cin o kterem jsem si myslel ze > uz je na dobro spojen s krabickou. Dalsi problem nastava s tim, ze kdyz se > krabicka poradne rozehreje aby se cin mohl chytit (s pistolovou pajkou to je > defakto necapacka - chtelo by to 150W+) tak se mi zacalo tavit lepidlo > kterym jsou prilepeny ledky a kabely (detail s kterym jsem naprosto > nepocital i kdyz je to logicke - zajimave, ze autorovy to problemy > nedelalo). U malych krabicek jako jsou tyto, kdyz je potreba do ni neco > sebemensiho napajet tak se musi misto pajeni poradne rozehrat. Tim ze to je > CU tak se defakto rozehreje na teplotu blizkou taveni cinu cela krabicka. Ne > ze by se cin na druhe strane krabicky roztekal, ale moc k tomu nechyby. > Absolutne nechapu jak nekdo mohl prilepit kabel a pote priletovat stineni > hned pod lepidlo. To podle me neni pripajene, zkuste vzit kleste a za spoj > trochu vzit. Myslim ze zjistite ze cin se ke krabicce pouze prilepil. > > Zkousel jsem povrch kde se bude pajet trochu zdrsnit. Cin (alespon to tak > vypada) prilnul, ale nejsem schopnej k tomu pripajet drat - jinak receno > cin na krabicce uz poradne nerozehreju. Kdyz vemu na pajku dalsi kus cinu a > snazeje se ho vpravit do toho co je na krabicce, tak to opet vypada ze se to > k sobe chytlo, ale bylo to jenom zdani, protoze pod lupou to uz tak > nevypada - krom toho ten drat jde snadno vyskubnout. > > Mohl bych to udelat tak ze bych plech poradne neprohral... ono by to urcite > nejakou dobu fungovalo, ale po case by se zacaly projevovat studene spoje... > jediny reseni vidim v tom, ze nez prilepim diody a kabely, tak vemu 150W > velkou pajku a pripravim si krabicku tak aby s ni cumely dratky na ktere se > pak priletuji IO a dalsi veci. > > Jinak si myslim, ze ten kdo to cele delal pistolovou pajkou, s tim bude > mit v budoucnu urcite problemy, protoze tato pajka nedokaze dostatecne > prohrat 0,5mm CU plech. Mozna ze kdyby se pouzil treba 0,3 pocinovany > zelezny plech ze by to slo, ale to pak zase nema zadnou mechanickou pevnost. > > Jediny reseni bych videl (s pistolovou pajkou) v pouziti cuprextitu misto > plechu, ktery by byl spajen do tvaru krabicky. Jenomze to je ponekud drahe. > Takze to vypada tak, ze se zitra skocim mrknou do obchodu po velke 150W+ > pajce. V budoucnu se urcite vyuzije (treba az clovek bude na baraku pajet > okapy :)). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja@lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > --- Odchoz? zpr?va neobsahuje viry. Zkontrolov?no antivirov?m syst?mem AVG (http://www.grisoft.cz). Verze: 6.0.488 / Virov? b?ze: 287 - datum vyd?n?: 5.6.2003 From xkutale1 at informatics.muni.cz Sat Jun 14 01:40:23 2003 From: xkutale1 at informatics.muni.cz (David Kutalek) Date: Fri Jun 13 23:40:31 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Pajeni do krabicky - dlouhe In-Reply-To: <005f01c331e8$c1a07d00$152ea8c0@x7i3g3> Message-ID: Ach jej, fakt zabavne cteni :-o Budu se opakovat - za draho a pekne/kvalitne na cuprexit, za levno z vhodne plechovky od redidla. Kuty > Muze mi nekdo ze zucasnenych rici, jak se mu podarilo pajet neco do krabicky > pistolovou pajkou? > > Sehnal jsem si 0,5mm CU plech. Po narysovani, vystrizeni a naohybani, jsem > se pustil do pajeni krabicky. Uz s timhle jsem mel s 75VA pistolovou pajkou > znacne problemy. Jsem si myslel, ze to bylo tim, ze jsem pajel dohromady dva > plechy a kdyz budu pajet jenom kus dratu ze to bude OK. Jenomze... pajku > jsem mel na plechu pridrzenou snad 5minut (zacal se mi umelohmotny kryt > pajky pomalu tavit v ruce) a plech se ne a ne poradne prohrat, aby se cin > roztekl. Samozrejme jsem pajkou smrdlal abych tomu pomohl, nicmene to bylo k > nicemu. Ona se sice udela jakasi kapka, ktera na oko vypada ze je OK, ale > kdyz jsem k tomu po dalsich 5ti minutach pripajel drat a po vychladnuti jsem > za drat skubnul, tak jsem vyskub z krabicky i cin o kterem jsem si myslel ze > uz je na dobro spojen s krabickou. Dalsi problem nastava s tim, ze kdyz se > krabicka poradne rozehreje aby se cin mohl chytit (s pistolovou pajkou to je > defakto necapacka - chtelo by to 150W+) tak se mi zacalo tavit lepidlo > kterym jsou prilepeny ledky a kabely (detail s kterym jsem naprosto > nepocital i kdyz je to logicke - zajimave, ze autorovy to problemy > nedelalo). U malych krabicek jako jsou tyto, kdyz je potreba do ni neco > sebemensiho napajet tak se musi misto pajeni poradne rozehrat. Tim ze to je > CU tak se defakto rozehreje na teplotu blizkou taveni cinu cela krabicka. Ne > ze by se cin na druhe strane krabicky roztekal, ale moc k tomu nechyby. > Absolutne nechapu jak nekdo mohl prilepit kabel a pote priletovat stineni > hned pod lepidlo. To podle me neni pripajene, zkuste vzit kleste a za spoj > trochu vzit. Myslim ze zjistite ze cin se ke krabicce pouze prilepil. > > Zkousel jsem povrch kde se bude pajet trochu zdrsnit. Cin (alespon to tak > vypada) prilnul, ale nejsem schopnej k tomu pripajet drat - jinak receno > cin na krabicce uz poradne nerozehreju. Kdyz vemu na pajku dalsi kus cinu a > snazeje se ho vpravit do toho co je na krabicce, tak to opet vypada ze se to > k sobe chytlo, ale bylo to jenom zdani, protoze pod lupou to uz tak > nevypada - krom toho ten drat jde snadno vyskubnout. > > Mohl bych to udelat tak ze bych plech poradne neprohral... ono by to urcite > nejakou dobu fungovalo, ale po case by se zacaly projevovat studene spoje... > jediny reseni vidim v tom, ze nez prilepim diody a kabely, tak vemu 150W > velkou pajku a pripravim si krabicku tak aby s ni cumely dratky na ktere se > pak priletuji IO a dalsi veci. > > Jinak si myslim, ze ten kdo to cele delal pistolovou pajkou, s tim bude > mit v budoucnu urcite problemy, protoze tato pajka nedokaze dostatecne > prohrat 0,5mm CU plech. Mozna ze kdyby se pouzil treba 0,3 pocinovany > zelezny plech ze by to slo, ale to pak zase nema zadnou mechanickou pevnost. > > Jediny reseni bych videl (s pistolovou pajkou) v pouziti cuprextitu misto > plechu, ktery by byl spajen do tvaru krabicky. Jenomze to je ponekud drahe. > Takze to vypada tak, ze se zitra skocim mrknou do obchodu po velke 150W+ > pajce. V budoucnu se urcite vyuzije (treba az clovek bude na baraku pajet > okapy :)). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja@lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > David Kutalek, xkutale1@fi.muni.cz (-: Peace, Flowers, Freedom, Happiness :-) From vojta at sinus.cz Sat Jun 14 16:50:14 2003 From: vojta at sinus.cz (Vojta P.) Date: Sat Jun 14 14:52:20 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Pajeni do krabicky - dlouhe In-Reply-To: <005f01c331e8$c1a07d00$152ea8c0@x7i3g3> Message-ID: Ahoj, Ja jsem to pajel dvema pajkami a taky tak, ze jsem si nejdrive pripravil mista, kam bude na plech neco pripojene, a pak az vlozil LEDky, kabely apod. Byl to pocinovany plech asi 0,5mm. Kamos poradil tez dobrou vec - na pajeni rohu krabicky (ale i na ty pripojna mista) - staci jedna pajka + drzet to cele v klestich nad plynovym sporakem. Vojta Lhota From electropt at hotmail.com Sat Jun 14 15:59:59 2003 From: electropt at hotmail.com (Electro PT) Date: Sat Jun 14 14:57:13 2003 Subject: [Ronja]5,5-7ns rise time is enough for 100Mbps link? References: Message-ID: Hi Does 100baseT has a maximum working frequency of 31mhz? Is this a typo or is this for real? If so one can use the 74VCH family to get 100Mbit, at least the building logic blocks, since they are good up to 33Mhz. Any comments on this? Read here http://www.fairchildsemi.com/collateral/vhclinecard.pdf ElectroPT Ps: I'm no electronics eng., just a guy who likes electronics. Please bear with me... :o) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gullik Webj?rn" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2003 10:44 PM Subject: SV: [Ronja]5,5-7ns rise time is enough for 100Mbps link? Yes, of course, I was referring to NRZ, or binary on/off keying like used on 100baseF, 125 Mbaud 4/5 encoding. Here bitrate gives bittime of 8 nS. One interesting thought is to use 100 baseT modulation, MLT over a "ronja-like" link. That would bring the typical frequency response to something greater than 31 Mhz, so maybee some of the IR leds such as TSFF5400 could be used, or a cheap pointer type laser. Gullik -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- Fr?n: ronja-admin@lists.pointless.net [mailto:ronja-admin@lists.pointless.net]F?r Highlander Skickat: den 9 april 2003 22:22 Till: ronja@lists.pointless.net ?mne: Re: [Ronja]5,5-7ns rise time is enough for 100Mbps link? Depends on type of modulation,... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gullik Webj?rn" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2003 9:48 PM Subject: SV: [Ronja]5,5-7ns rise time is enough for 100Mbps link? many optical components for fiber use are specified 3 nS rise/fall for speeds 100 (125) / 155 Mbit/sec. bittime must be less than tr + tf to reach -3dB. Gullik -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- Fr?n: ronja-admin@lists.pointless.net [mailto:ronja-admin@lists.pointless.net]F?r Highlander Skickat: den 9 april 2003 21:30 Till: ronja@lists.pointless.net ?mne: Re: [Ronja]5,5-7ns rise time is enough for 100Mbps link? No it is o good for 100Mb. It must have about 1ns delay. and rise and fall times about 700-900ps. Highlander. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Popa Popescu Sorin" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2003 9:16 PM Subject: [Ronja]5,5-7ns rise time is enough for 100Mbps link? > > > i found it on the net 5-7 ns infrared LED with 35mW power.. is > good for 100Mbps ronja? > Btw, an infrared LED at 880nm,45mW@100mA,22 degree,25/15 ns rise > time,5 mm clear epoxy would be an better alternative to all HPWT XXX > leds? > with 127mm dia lens. and one of these led's. can i go further > then 1km? > anyway,tks..=:) > > _______________________________________________ Ronja mailing list Ronja@lists.pointless.net http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja _______________________________________________ Ronja mailing list Ronja@lists.pointless.net http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja _______________________________________________ Ronja mailing list Ronja@lists.pointless.net http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From michal.grunt at iol.cz Sat Jun 14 19:32:57 2003 From: michal.grunt at iol.cz (Michal Grunt) Date: Sat Jun 14 17:33:06 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Pajeni do krabicky - dlouhe Message-ID: <000801c33292$a2073060$152ea8c0@x7i3g3> Tak jsem si koupil velkou pajku. Sice ma "jenom" 75W (pak meli 380W, ale to uz byla hodne velika mrcha), ale ma veliky hrot (vypada jako mirne prerostla mikropajka) a sni to jde perfektne. Problem pistolovych je, ze nejsou stavene na delsi provoz. -----P?vodn? zpr?va----- Od: Michal Grunt Komu: GPL free-space optical datalink Datum: 13. ?ervna 2003 22:17 P?edm?t: [Ronja] Pajeni do krabicky - dlouhe >Muze mi nekdo ze zucasnenych rici, jak se mu podarilo pajet neco do krabicky >pistolovou pajkou? > >Sehnal jsem si 0,5mm CU plech. Po narysovani, vystrizeni a naohybani, jsem >se pustil do pajeni krabicky. Uz s timhle jsem mel s 75VA pistolovou pajkou >znacne problemy. Jsem si myslel, ze to bylo tim, ze jsem pajel dohromady dva >plechy a kdyz budu pajet jenom kus dratu ze to bude OK. Jenomze... pajku >jsem mel na plechu pridrzenou snad 5minut (zacal se mi umelohmotny kryt >pajky pomalu tavit v ruce) a plech se ne a ne poradne prohrat, aby se cin >roztekl. Samozrejme jsem pajkou smrdlal abych tomu pomohl, nicmene to bylo k >nicemu. Ona se sice udela jakasi kapka, ktera na oko vypada ze je OK, ale >kdyz jsem k tomu po dalsich 5ti minutach pripajel drat a po vychladnuti jsem >za drat skubnul, tak jsem vyskub z krabicky i cin o kterem jsem si myslel ze >uz je na dobro spojen s krabickou. Dalsi problem nastava s tim, ze kdyz se >krabicka poradne rozehreje aby se cin mohl chytit (s pistolovou pajkou to je >defakto necapacka - chtelo by to 150W+) tak se mi zacalo tavit lepidlo >kterym jsou prilepeny ledky a kabely (detail s kterym jsem naprosto >nepocital i kdyz je to logicke - zajimave, ze autorovy to problemy >nedelalo). U malych krabicek jako jsou tyto, kdyz je potreba do ni neco >sebemensiho napajet tak se musi misto pajeni poradne rozehrat. Tim ze to je >CU tak se defakto rozehreje na teplotu blizkou taveni cinu cela krabicka. Ne >ze by se cin na druhe strane krabicky roztekal, ale moc k tomu nechyby. >Absolutne nechapu jak nekdo mohl prilepit kabel a pote priletovat stineni >hned pod lepidlo. To podle me neni pripajene, zkuste vzit kleste a za spoj >trochu vzit. Myslim ze zjistite ze cin se ke krabicce pouze prilepil. > >Zkousel jsem povrch kde se bude pajet trochu zdrsnit. Cin (alespon to tak >vypada) prilnul, ale nejsem schopnej k tomu pripajet drat - jinak receno >cin na krabicce uz poradne nerozehreju. Kdyz vemu na pajku dalsi kus cinu a >snazeje se ho vpravit do toho co je na krabicce, tak to opet vypada ze se to >k sobe chytlo, ale bylo to jenom zdani, protoze pod lupou to uz tak >nevypada - krom toho ten drat jde snadno vyskubnout. > >Mohl bych to udelat tak ze bych plech poradne neprohral... ono by to urcite >nejakou dobu fungovalo, ale po case by se zacaly projevovat studene spoje... >jediny reseni vidim v tom, ze nez prilepim diody a kabely, tak vemu 150W >velkou pajku a pripravim si krabicku tak aby s ni cumely dratky na ktere se >pak priletuji IO a dalsi veci. > >Jinak si myslim, ze ten kdo to cele delal pistolovou pajkou, s tim bude >mit v budoucnu urcite problemy, protoze tato pajka nedokaze dostatecne >prohrat 0,5mm CU plech. Mozna ze kdyby se pouzil treba 0,3 pocinovany >zelezny plech ze by to slo, ale to pak zase nema zadnou mechanickou pevnost. > >Jediny reseni bych videl (s pistolovou pajkou) v pouziti cuprextitu misto >plechu, ktery by byl spajen do tvaru krabicky. Jenomze to je ponekud drahe. >Takze to vypada tak, ze se zitra skocim mrknou do obchodu po velke 150W+ >pajce. V budoucnu se urcite vyuzije (treba az clovek bude na baraku pajet >okapy :)). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Ronja mailing list >Ronja@lists.pointless.net >http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From clock at atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz Mon Jun 16 07:23:47 2003 From: clock at atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz (Clock) Date: Sun Jun 15 21:23:00 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Pajeni do krabicky - dlouhe In-Reply-To: ; from vojta@sinus.cz on Sat, Jun 14, 2003 at 03:50:14PM +0200 References: <005f01c331e8$c1a07d00$152ea8c0@x7i3g3> Message-ID: <20030616062347.A17248@beton.cybernet.cz> On Sat, Jun 14, 2003 at 03:50:14PM +0200, Vojta P. wrote: > Ahoj, > Ja jsem to pajel dvema pajkami a taky tak, ze jsem si nejdrive pripravil > mista, kam bude na plech neco pripojene, a pak az vlozil LEDky, kabely > apod. Byl to pocinovany plech asi 0,5mm. Pocinovany ocelovy nebo pocinovany medeny? Cl< From vojta at sinus.cz Sun Jun 15 23:26:23 2003 From: vojta at sinus.cz (=?iso-8859-2?q?Vojt=ECch=20Pithart?=) Date: Sun Jun 15 21:26:23 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Pajeni do krabicky - dlouhe In-Reply-To: <20030616062347.A17248@beton.cybernet.cz> References: <005f01c331e8$c1a07d00$152ea8c0@x7i3g3> <20030616062347.A17248@beton.cybernet.cz> Message-ID: <200306152226.23393.vojta@sinus.cz> Ocelovy, delaji se z nej treba trubky na senomet nebo strechy kralikaren. Dne po 16. ?ervna 2003 06:23 Clock napsal(a): > On Sat, Jun 14, 2003 at 03:50:14PM +0200, Vojta P. wrote: > > Ahoj, > > Ja jsem to pajel dvema pajkami a taky tak, ze jsem si nejdrive pripravil > > mista, kam bude na plech neco pripojene, a pak az vlozil LEDky, kabely > > apod. Byl to pocinovany plech asi 0,5mm. > > Pocinovany ocelovy nebo pocinovany medeny? > > Cl< > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja@lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From clock at atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz Mon Jun 16 09:19:39 2003 From: clock at atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz (Clock) Date: Sun Jun 15 23:18:55 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Re: Ronja - AUI In-Reply-To: <003401c3338a$5a2ce160$0102a8c0@x7i3g3>; from michal.grunt@iol.cz on Mon, Jun 16, 2003 at 12:04:13AM +0200 References: <003401c3338a$5a2ce160$0102a8c0@x7i3g3> Message-ID: <20030616081939.A26513@beton.cybernet.cz> On Mon, Jun 16, 2003 at 12:04:13AM +0200, Michal Grunt wrote: > Zdravim, > konecne jsem dopajel AUI (cela sobota a nedele, hruza :)). Pripojil k > externimu zdroji (nechtel jsem v pripade skratu riskovat poskozeni sitovky > nebo PC). Odber cca 110mA coz je v norme (podle navodu) tak jsem to pripojil Podle normy IEEE 802.3 musi mit sitova karta implementovanu vratnou nadproudovou ochranu limitujici na 500mA. Pokud normu nesplnuje, neni to ethernetova karta. > na sitovku. V navodu se take pise ze nesmi svitit cervena LEDka (po > pripojeni do sitovky) ta mi nesviti, ale sviti mi trvale zelena. Je to > normalni? Ano. > > RX a TX jeste nemam postaven (chybi mi par veci) abych mohl zkouset dal. > > Jeste jeden dotaz, kdyz konfiguruji sitovku pres 3c90xcfg.exe... nastavim > typ media na AUI ale nejde nastavit full duplex (pise to neco v tom smyslu > ze to medium nepodporuje). Jak to tedy je, umi AUI full duplex? Mam sitovku > 3COM 900 Combo (PCI). Umi. Ale myslim ze nejstarsi verze 3c900 fullduplex neumely. Ostatne tuto informaci by mel davat k produktu vyrobce, pokud ji nedava, je to dle meho nazoru spatny vyrobce. Cl< From highlander_____ at hotmail.com Mon Jun 16 06:52:20 2003 From: highlander_____ at hotmail.com (Highlander) Date: Mon Jun 16 04:52:15 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Re: Ronja - AUI References: <003401c3338a$5a2ce160$0102a8c0@x7i3g3> <20030616081939.A26513@beton.cybernet.cz> Message-ID: >Umi. Ale myslim ze nejstarsi verze 3c900 fullduplex neumely. Ostatne tuto > informaci by mel davat k produktu vyrobce, pokud ji nedava, je to dle meho > nazoru spatny vyrobce. > > Cl< Um?, ale tou utilitou to nelze nastavit... Proc ? Na to se mus?s zeptat u 3Com. Lze to bud linuxem, a nebo pri pouzit? woken nastavit nejdr?ve tou dos utilitou TP Full duplex a pak po startu woken wpcredit a wpcrset a pr?mo naprogramovat PCI registr, kterej prepne na AUI. Tohle jsem skousel ve W98, nevim jak wpcredit funguje ve w2k. A nebo je jeste jedna slozitejs? moznost a tou je pr?mo naprogramovat nastaven? AUI full duplex do FLASHky na karte. Ale to jsem neskousel, protoze nevim jak programovat PCI zar?zen?. From honza at hoidekr.net Mon Jun 16 07:53:16 2003 From: honza at hoidekr.net (Hoidekr Jan) Date: Mon Jun 16 05:53:30 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Re: Ronja - AUI In-Reply-To: References: <003401c3338a$5a2ce160$0102a8c0@x7i3g3> <20030616081939.A26513@beton.cybernet.cz> Message-ID: <3EED4D3C.6040007@hoidekr.net> Highlander wrote: > Lze to bud linuxem, a nebo pri pouzit? woken nastavit nejdr?ve tou dos > utilitou TP Full duplex a pak po startu woken wpcredit a wpcrset a pr?mo > naprogramovat PCI registr, kterej prepne na AUI. > Tohle jsem skousel ve W98, nevim jak wpcredit funguje ve w2k. muzes podrobneji napsat o co presne jde? Full duplex na AUI ve woknech je vec. kterou se mi uchodit nepodarilo a dost by se to hodilo urcite nejen mne. Diky Honza From vojta at tangens.sinus.cz Wed Jun 4 07:19:36 2003 From: vojta at tangens.sinus.cz (Vojtech Pithart) Date: Mon Jun 16 08:59:47 2003 Subject: [Ronja] 3Com 3C900-COMBO In-Reply-To: <012801c32a60$925e81c0$6400a8c0@karel> References: <012801c32a60$925e81c0$6400a8c0@karel> Message-ID: <20030604061933.GA3133@tangens.sinus.cz> Ahoj, za kolik a kde? Vojta > Mam tu 5 kusu subj pokud by nekdo mel zajem > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja@lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From mrideout at windserve.com Fri Jun 6 07:53:24 2003 From: mrideout at windserve.com (Matt Rideout) Date: Mon Jun 16 08:59:48 2003 Subject: [Ronja] RONJA newbie...have some questions Message-ID: <1508.64.233.69.196.1054882381.squirrel@windserve.com> First of all, great job! I'm very impressed with the the scope and quality of what's been created here. How technically sophisticated does one need to be in order to build these devices? I'm very interested in building a pair of these if I can. I feel confident in the networking end of this, but my experience in terms of electronics doesn't go much beyond a high school electronics class and a couple college physics classes. Given enough time, is this something that should be doable by someone with basic electronics knowledge? Or is this project best left to electrical engineers? My second question is, how is performance with these devices? From what I've read on this site, it looks like it should be basically identical to what you'd see with full duplex Ethernet over any other medium. Is this the case, or does the optical component cause a latency or throughput hit? I guess packet loss is close to non-existent on strong links? I'm not subscribed to the list, so if you could CC any replys to me I'd appreciate it. Thanks, Matt From kleisner at mbox.dkm.cz Wed Jun 11 23:41:48 2003 From: kleisner at mbox.dkm.cz (Jan Kleisner) Date: Mon Jun 16 08:59:48 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Konektor na RT, TX References: <001801c33043$06322ec0$152ea8c0@x7i3g3> <003201c33043$ff939530$18762093@pkral> Message-ID: <001801c33059$e1316840$020110ac@jklhome1> > > Co pouzit na AUI misto 'cokolady' (konektor nahore na AUI) > > "F panelovou zastrcku s centralni matici"? (maji to na sobe satelitni > > > > Zda se mi to lepsi nez svorkovnice, protoze kdyz se bude s AUI obcas soupat, > > tak se muzou kabely ve svorkach ulomit. > > > > To same bych dal asi na RX a TX - snadna montaz... > Zbytecne drahe, pouzijte cinche, 10MHz je porad dost malo na to aby se musely pouzivat Fka Panelova samice cinche ma uprostred diru ;) a kdyz ji date i do RX / TX tubusu mate pak diru v nem. Z toto pohledu jsou jine konektory lepsi, jenze kdyz si spocitate kolik jich dohromady potrebujete a co to pak stoji, zjistite, ze cokolada je ten nejlepsi konektor vubec :) -jkl- From clock at atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz Mon Jun 16 11:03:27 2003 From: clock at atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Mon Jun 16 09:03:29 2003 Subject: [Ronja] RONJA newbie...have some questions In-Reply-To: <1508.64.233.69.196.1054882381.squirrel@windserve.com> References: <1508.64.233.69.196.1054882381.squirrel@windserve.com> Message-ID: <20030616080326.GA25081@atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz> > First of all, great job! I'm very impressed with the the scope and quality > of what's been created here. > > How technically sophisticated does one need to be in order to build these > devices? I'm very interested in building a pair of these if I can. I feel > confident in the networking end of this, but my experience in terms of > electronics doesn't go much beyond a high school electronics class and a > couple college physics classes. Given enough time, is this something that You don't need to know anything more than how to read out digits from a digital voltmeter. And to read schematics and solder parts according to them. > should be doable by someone with basic electronics knowledge? Or is this > project best left to electrical engineers? The electrical "engineering" has been done by me already :) > My second question is, how is performance with these devices? From what > I've read on this site, it looks like it should be basically identical to > what you'd see with full duplex Ethernet over any other medium. Is this > the case, or does the optical component cause a latency or throughput hit? It's a fullduplex ethernet. No latency, no throughput hit. > I guess packet loss is close to non-existent on strong links? Yes. Cl< From zapadlo at melzer.cz Mon Jun 16 13:53:55 2003 From: zapadlo at melzer.cz (Petr Zapadlo) Date: Mon Jun 16 11:54:06 2003 Subject: [Ronja] provoz bez optiky a napeti RSSI Message-ID: <200306161253.55063.zapadlo@melzer.cz> Dobry den chtel bych se zeptat zda nekdo nema zmerene napeti RSSI (P107) pri provozu bez optiky. Mam tu nekolik kousku (4x RX, 4x TX, 2x AUI) a experimetuji. Pri testovani bez optiky se nemohu ani nahodou dostat na uvaden 3.5m pro slaby packet loss v zatemne mistnosti. Me to chodi cca 1.6m pri napeti 0.3mV RSSI bez paket loss, jestlize zvetsim vzdalenost na 1.8m , RSSi klesne 0.1mV a objevi se znatelna ztrata paketu (cca 30%). Zvetsovanim vzdalenosti o milimetry dramaticky narusta ztrata az do 100%. Zkousel jsem kombinaci jednotlivych modulu a ty se od sebe lisi v podtsate jen centimetry. Je to v poradku? Ma nekdo zmerena napeti abych to mohl porovnat? Diky S pozdravem -- Petr "Zapik" Zapadlo Ing. Petr Zapadlo vedouc? odd?len? syst?mov? podpory Melzer, spol. s r.o. Doln? 71, 796 01 Prost?jov tel: 582 330 301 fax: 582 330 302 mailto: zapadlo@melzer.cz http://www.melzer.cz From clock at atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz Mon Jun 16 21:58:38 2003 From: clock at atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz (Clock) Date: Mon Jun 16 11:57:46 2003 Subject: [Ronja] provoz bez optiky a napeti RSSI In-Reply-To: <200306161253.55063.zapadlo@melzer.cz>; from zapadlo@melzer.cz on Mon, Jun 16, 2003 at 12:53:55PM +0200 References: <200306161253.55063.zapadlo@melzer.cz> Message-ID: <20030616205837.A7839@beton.cybernet.cz> On Mon, Jun 16, 2003 at 12:53:55PM +0200, Petr Zapadlo wrote: > Dobry den > > chtel bych se zeptat zda nekdo nema zmerene napeti RSSI (P107) pri provozu bez > optiky. Napeti RSSI se podstatne lisi kus od kusu. > Mam tu nekolik kousku (4x RX, 4x TX, 2x AUI) a experimetuji. Pri testovani bez > optiky se nemohu ani nahodou dostat na uvaden 3.5m pro slaby packet loss v > zatemne mistnosti. > Me to chodi cca 1.6m pri napeti 0.3mV RSSI bez paket loss, jestlize zvetsim > vzdalenost na 1.8m , RSSi klesne 0.1mV a objevi se znatelna ztrata paketu > (cca 30%). Zvetsovanim vzdalenosti o milimetry dramaticky narusta ztrata az > do 100%. > Zkousel jsem kombinaci jednotlivych modulu a ty se od sebe lisi v podtsate jen > centimetry. > > Je to v poradku? Co tam mate za vysilaci diodu? Cl< From zapadlo at melzer.cz Mon Jun 16 14:01:02 2003 From: zapadlo at melzer.cz (Petr Zapadlo) Date: Mon Jun 16 12:01:09 2003 Subject: [Ronja] provoz bez optiky a napeti RSSI In-Reply-To: <20030616205837.A7839@beton.cybernet.cz> References: <200306161253.55063.zapadlo@melzer.cz> <20030616205837.A7839@beton.cybernet.cz> Message-ID: <200306161301.02674.zapadlo@melzer.cz> > Napeti RSSI se podstatne lisi kus od kusu. > Muzu rici ze vsechny me kusy jsou vicemene stejne. > Co tam mate za vysilaci diodu? > HPWT-BD00 subtyp bohuzel nevim, byla koupena od nekoho z fora czfree.net. PS Ronja shop je jiz minulosti? S pozdravem -- Petr "Zapik" Zapadlo Ing. Petr Zapadlo vedouc? odd?len? syst?mov? podpory Melzer, spol. s r.o. Doln? 71, 796 01 Prost?jov tel: 582 330 301 fax: 582 330 302 mailto: zapadlo@melzer.cz http://www.melzer.cz From clock at atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz Tue Jun 17 03:25:13 2003 From: clock at atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz (Clock) Date: Mon Jun 16 17:24:19 2003 Subject: [Ronja] provoz bez optiky a napeti RSSI In-Reply-To: <200306161301.02674.zapadlo@melzer.cz>; from zapadlo@melzer.cz on Mon, Jun 16, 2003 at 01:01:02PM +0200 References: <200306161253.55063.zapadlo@melzer.cz> <20030616205837.A7839@beton.cybernet.cz> <200306161301.02674.zapadlo@melzer.cz> Message-ID: <20030617022513.A9096@beton.cybernet.cz> On Mon, Jun 16, 2003 at 01:01:02PM +0200, Petr Zapadlo wrote: > > > Napeti RSSI se podstatne lisi kus od kusu. > > > > Muzu rici ze vsechny me kusy jsou vicemene stejne. Dela to rozptyl soucastek, jestli mate ze stejne serie, tak je budete mit stejne. Ale samozrejme to nevadi, RSSI je tam na zamerovani a nevadi, ze to meri v jednotkach brambora. > > > > Co tam mate za vysilaci diodu? > > > > > HPWT-BD00 subtyp bohuzel nevim, byla koupena od nekoho z fora czfree.net. Tak to je dosah nizsi nez 3.5m, pak to je v poradku. Cl< From highlander_____ at hotmail.com Mon Jun 16 20:09:11 2003 From: highlander_____ at hotmail.com (Highlander) Date: Mon Jun 16 18:11:50 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Re: Ronja - AUI References: <003401c3338a$5a2ce160$0102a8c0@x7i3g3> <20030616081939.A26513@beton.cybernet.cz> <3EED4D3C.6040007@hoidekr.net> Message-ID: Bohuzel uz tu kartu nemam a je to uz tak pul roku a vubec si nepamatuju, kterej registr to byl,.. Prich?zel jsem na to tak, ze jsem vzal kartu, dos utilitou jsem nastavil TP half duplex. (je dulezit? aby i driver pro kartu byl prepnutej na TP half). A mus? to b?t origin?l 3com. Pak jsem pomoc? programu wpcredit prozkoumal PCI registry karty. Pak jsem prepnul kartu na TP half duplex. A zase jsem sledoval registry,.. Ty co se zmenily jsem si poznamenal,.. Pak jsem prepnul na AUI half duplex. Opet jsem si poznamenal jak? registr se zmenil,.. A pak jsem tusim nastavil TP full duplex a zmenil jsem hodnotu registru, kterej se menil pri prepnut? na AUI. Je mozn? jeste vyskouset nastavit AUI a pak zmenit registr kterej nastavuje full duplex,... Highlander. ----- Original Message ----- From: Hoidekr Jan To: GPL free-space optical datalink Sent: Monday, June 16, 2003 6:53 AM Subject: Re: [Ronja] Re: Ronja - AUI > Highlander wrote: > > Lze to bud linuxem, a nebo pri pouzit? woken nastavit nejdr?ve tou dos > > utilitou TP Full duplex a pak po startu woken wpcredit a wpcrset a pr?mo > > naprogramovat PCI registr, kterej prepne na AUI. > > Tohle jsem skousel ve W98, nevim jak wpcredit funguje ve w2k. > > muzes podrobneji napsat o co presne jde? Full duplex na AUI ve woknech > je vec. kterou se mi uchodit nepodarilo a dost by se to hodilo urcite > nejen mne. Diky > > Honza > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja@lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > From vojta at sinus.cz Mon Jun 16 21:54:41 2003 From: vojta at sinus.cz (=?iso-8859-2?q?Vojt=ECch=20Pithart?=) Date: Mon Jun 16 19:54:49 2003 Subject: [Ronja] provoz bez optiky a napeti RSSI In-Reply-To: <20030617022513.A9096@beton.cybernet.cz> References: <200306161253.55063.zapadlo@melzer.cz> <200306161301.02674.zapadlo@melzer.cz> <20030617022513.A9096@beton.cybernet.cz> Message-ID: <200306162054.41188.vojta@sinus.cz> > Tak to je dosah nizsi nez 3.5m, pak to je v poradku. > Cl< Ahoj, zapojim se do Vasi debaty: Je normalni, ze RSSI je max 1.05V pri i pri vzdalenosti 0? Vysilaci dioda primacknuta hned na prijimaci. Na 60cm bez optiky to temer prestava chodit a chovaji se tak oba moje pary RX/TX. Prijimaci BPW43, vysilaci HPWT-BD00, koupene od corelxt@email.cz. Ma cenu zkouset vymenovat BF960 a/nebo NE592? Vojta Lhota From zapadlo at melzer.cz Tue Jun 17 07:27:55 2003 From: zapadlo at melzer.cz (Petr Zapadlo) Date: Tue Jun 17 05:28:08 2003 Subject: [Ronja] provoz bez optiky a napeti RSSI In-Reply-To: <200306162054.41188.vojta@sinus.cz> References: <200306161253.55063.zapadlo@melzer.cz> <20030617022513.A9096@beton.cybernet.cz> <200306162054.41188.vojta@sinus.cz> Message-ID: <200306170627.56139.zapadlo@melzer.cz> Dne po 16. ?ervna 2003 20:54 Vojt?ch Pithart napsal(a): > > Tak to je dosah nizsi nez 3.5m, pak to je v poradku. > > Cl< > > Ahoj, zapojim se do Vasi debaty: Je normalni, ze RSSI je max 1.05V pri i > pri vzdalenosti 0? Vysilaci dioda primacknuta hned na prijimaci. Na 60cm > bez optiky to temer prestava chodit a chovaji se tak oba moje pary RX/TX. > Prijimaci BPW43, vysilaci HPWT-BD00, koupene od corelxt@email.cz. > Ma cenu zkouset vymenovat BF960 a/nebo NE592? > Mam stejne oszeni, dokonce i zdroj BD00 je stejny :-). Me to na 60cm chodilo jen kdyz jsem nemel krabicky zakrytovany. Je to sice pakarna neustale rozletovavat a zaletovavat vicka (mam krabicky z kuprextitu) ale je fakt ze se dosah zakrytovanim prodlouzil na 1.8m. A hlavne kdyz priblizim ruku k nezakryte krabicce tak se uplne ztrati signal a spojeni jde do kytek (RSSI vyskoci cca 400mV) S pozdravem -- Petr "Zapik" Zapadlo Ing. Petr Zapadlo vedouc? odd?len? syst?mov? podpory Melzer, spol. s r.o. Doln? 71, 796 01 Prost?jov tel: 582 330 301 fax: 582 330 302 mailto: zapadlo@melzer.cz http://www.melzer.cz From zapadlo at melzer.cz Tue Jun 17 09:01:59 2003 From: zapadlo at melzer.cz (Petr Zapadlo) Date: Tue Jun 17 07:02:08 2003 Subject: [Ronja] BD00-F4000 Message-ID: <200306170801.59179.zapadlo@melzer.cz> Nema nekdo uvedene k mani? Diky S pozdravem -- Petr "Zapik" Zapadlo Ing. Petr Zapadlo vedouc? odd?len? syst?mov? podpory Melzer, spol. s r.o. Doln? 71, 796 01 Prost?jov tel: 582 330 301 fax: 582 330 302 mailto: zapadlo@melzer.cz http://www.melzer.cz From clock at atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz Wed Jun 18 01:51:20 2003 From: clock at atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz (Clock) Date: Tue Jun 17 15:50:20 2003 Subject: [Ronja] provoz bez optiky a napeti RSSI In-Reply-To: <200306170627.56139.zapadlo@melzer.cz>; from zapadlo@melzer.cz on Tue, Jun 17, 2003 at 06:27:55AM +0200 References: <200306161253.55063.zapadlo@melzer.cz> <20030617022513.A9096@beton.cybernet.cz> <200306162054.41188.vojta@sinus.cz> <200306170627.56139.zapadlo@melzer.cz> Message-ID: <20030618005120.A2382@beton.cybernet.cz> On Tue, Jun 17, 2003 at 06:27:55AM +0200, Petr Zapadlo wrote: > Dne po 16. ??ervna 2003 20:54 Vojt??ch Pithart napsal(a): > > > Tak to je dosah nizsi nez 3.5m, pak to je v poradku. > > > Cl< > > > > Ahoj, zapojim se do Vasi debaty: Je normalni, ze RSSI je max 1.05V pri i > > pri vzdalenosti 0? Vysilaci dioda primacknuta hned na prijimaci. Na 60cm > > bez optiky to temer prestava chodit a chovaji se tak oba moje pary RX/TX. > > Prijimaci BPW43, vysilaci HPWT-BD00, koupene od corelxt@email.cz. > > Ma cenu zkouset vymenovat BF960 a/nebo NE592? > > > > > Mam stejne oszeni, dokonce i zdroj BD00 je stejny :-). > > Me to na 60cm chodilo jen kdyz jsem nemel krabicky zakrytovany. Je to sice > pakarna neustale rozletovavat a zaletovavat vicka (mam krabicky z kuprextitu) Ano, krabicky podle navodu se rozletovavat a zaletovavat nemuseji, maji vicka na pero. > ale je fakt ze se dosah zakrytovanim prodlouzil na 1.8m. A hlavne kdyz 1.8m je tak adekvatni. Zalezi to taky na osvetleni. Cl< From clock at atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz Wed Jun 18 01:52:30 2003 From: clock at atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz (Clock) Date: Tue Jun 17 15:51:26 2003 Subject: [Ronja] provoz bez optiky a napeti RSSI In-Reply-To: <200306162054.41188.vojta@sinus.cz>; from vojta@sinus.cz on Mon, Jun 16, 2003 at 08:54:41PM +0200 References: <200306161253.55063.zapadlo@melzer.cz> <200306161301.02674.zapadlo@melzer.cz> <20030617022513.A9096@beton.cybernet.cz> <200306162054.41188.vojta@sinus.cz> Message-ID: <20030618005230.B2382@beton.cybernet.cz> On Mon, Jun 16, 2003 at 08:54:41PM +0200, Vojt?ch Pithart wrote: > > Tak to je dosah nizsi nez 3.5m, pak to je v poradku. > > Cl< > > Ahoj, zapojim se do Vasi debaty: Je normalni, ze RSSI je max 1.05V pri i pri > vzdalenosti 0? Vysilaci dioda primacknuta hned na prijimaci. Na 60cm bez Ano, je. > optiky to temer prestava chodit a chovaji se tak oba moje pary RX/TX. Chodi to na 30cm? Chodi to na 120cm? Cl< > Prijimaci BPW43, vysilaci HPWT-BD00, koupene od corelxt@email.cz. > Ma cenu zkouset vymenovat BF960 a/nebo NE592? > > Vojta Lhota > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja@lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From clock at atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz Wed Jun 18 01:54:39 2003 From: clock at atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz (Clock) Date: Tue Jun 17 15:53:35 2003 Subject: [Ronja]5,5-7ns rise time is enough for 100Mbps link? In-Reply-To: ; from electropt@hotmail.com on Sat, Jun 14, 2003 at 02:59:59PM +0100 References: Message-ID: <20030618005439.C2382@beton.cybernet.cz> On Sat, Jun 14, 2003 at 02:59:59PM +0100, Electro PT wrote: > Hi > > Does 100baseT has a maximum working frequency of 31mhz? Is this a typo or is ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ What source did you dig this information from? Cl< From clock at atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz Wed Jun 18 01:56:50 2003 From: clock at atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz (Clock) Date: Tue Jun 17 15:55:46 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Konektor na RT, TX In-Reply-To: <000601c33046$c478c940$152ea8c0@x7i3g3>; from michal.grunt@iol.cz on Wed, Jun 11, 2003 at 08:24:54PM +0200 References: <000601c33046$c478c940$152ea8c0@x7i3g3> Message-ID: <20030618005650.E2382@beton.cybernet.cz> Co tvori centralni kontakt u F konektoru? Jestli si dobre pamatuju, neni tam z jedne strany medeny drat toho koaxialniho kabelu? Cl< From clock at atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz Wed Jun 18 01:59:06 2003 From: clock at atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz (Clock) Date: Tue Jun 17 15:58:02 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Konektor na RT, TX In-Reply-To: <001801c33043$06322ec0$152ea8c0@x7i3g3>; from michal.grunt@iol.cz on Wed, Jun 11, 2003 at 07:56:31PM +0200 References: <001801c33043$06322ec0$152ea8c0@x7i3g3> Message-ID: <20030618005906.F2382@beton.cybernet.cz> On Wed, Jun 11, 2003 at 07:56:31PM +0200, Michal Grunt wrote: > Co pouzit na AUI misto 'cokolady' (konektor nahore na AUI) > "F panelovou zastrcku s centralni matici"? (maji to na sobe satelitni > prijimace jako konektor na antenu). Podle katalogu GESu je to polozka FB EM. > http://wwww.ges.cz/katalog2002/c-12cd.pdf > Strana 12-4. > > Zda se mi to lepsi nez svorkovnice, protoze kdyz se bude s AUI obcas soupat, > tak se muzou kabely ve svorkach ulomit. Ja v AUI interfacu slapu, tlucu do nej luxem pri luxovani a neustale se v kabelech prehrabuju kdyz zapojuju neco do pocitace a mam to tu uz asi rok a pul a jeste se mi nic neulomilo. Navrhoval jsem tam ty medeny koliky a izolace schvalne proto, aby to bylo mechanicky odolny. Cl< > > To same bych dal asi na RX a TX - snadna montaz... > > Neni na tom neco spatneho? Ale zase kdyz se to pouziva u satelitni > techniky... > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja@lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From gullik.webjorn at flysta.net Tue Jun 17 23:44:52 2003 From: gullik.webjorn at flysta.net (=?us-ascii?Q?Gullik_Webjorn?=) Date: Tue Jun 17 21:44:21 2003 Subject: SV: [Ronja]5,5-7ns rise time is enough for 100Mbps link? In-Reply-To: <20030618005439.C2382@beton.cybernet.cz> Message-ID: Whomever passed that info is correct in principle: Since MLT-3 is a slightly modified variant of ami ( alternate mark inversion ) the main lobe is contained within 1/4 the signalling rate, as compared to NRZ at 1/2 sigalling rate and manchester at 1 times rate. Thus it should be possible to contain 100 base TX signalling within half the bandwidth of 100 base FX. That matches some of the LED based optical components fairly well. Since some succesful attempts have been made with laser pointers, maybee that would be an easier path to go to get a 100 Mbit/sec Sonja. Leds with 60+ Mhz bandwidth are rare (except for RCleds) Sonja = (Superb optical near joint access) Gullik Skickat: den 18 juni 2003 00:55 Till: GPL free-space optical datalink Amne: Re: [Ronja]5,5-7ns rise time is enough for 100Mbps link? On Sat, Jun 14, 2003 at 02:59:59PM +0100, Electro PT wrote: > Hi > > Does 100baseT has a maximum working frequency of 31mhz? Is this a typo or is ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ What source did you dig this information from? Cl< _______________________________________________ Ronja mailing list Ronja@lists.pointless.net http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From electropt at hotmail.com Wed Jun 18 20:11:37 2003 From: electropt at hotmail.com (Electro PT) Date: Wed Jun 18 19:11:45 2003 Subject: [Ronja]5,5-7ns rise time is enough for 100Mbps link? References: Message-ID: Hi I interpreted from a message posted by Gullik some time ago. Its in my first mail... After reading (part of) the ieee document, I found out that the TX clock is 1/4 of the signaling rate ie 25MHz (in 100baseT). So my question is this, does the modulation frequency need to be atmost 25MHz or at least? One other thing, the max delay in 100Mbit stated in the ieee doc is rather high (more than 8ns). Does is have to do anything to RT/FT of the gates leds etc? Sorry if I aked realy stupid questions, but I realy want to help :o) Electro PT ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gullik Webjorn" To: "GPL free-space optical datalink" Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 9:44 PM Subject: SV: [Ronja]5,5-7ns rise time is enough for 100Mbps link? > Whomever passed that info is correct in principle: > > Since MLT-3 is a slightly modified variant of ami ( alternate mark > inversion ) > the main lobe is contained within 1/4 the signalling rate, as compared to > NRZ at 1/2 sigalling rate and manchester at 1 times rate. Thus it should be > possible to contain 100 base TX signalling within half the bandwidth of > 100 base FX. That matches some of the LED based optical components fairly > well. > > Since some succesful attempts have been made with laser pointers, maybee > that > would be an easier path to go to get a 100 Mbit/sec Sonja. Leds with 60+ > Mhz bandwidth are rare (except for RCleds) > > Sonja = (Superb optical near joint access) > > Gullik > > > Skickat: den 18 juni 2003 00:55 > Till: GPL free-space optical datalink > Amne: Re: [Ronja]5,5-7ns rise time is enough for 100Mbps link? > > > On Sat, Jun 14, 2003 at 02:59:59PM +0100, Electro PT wrote: > > Hi > > > > Does 100baseT has a maximum working frequency of 31mhz? Is this a typo or > is > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > What source did you dig this information from? > > Cl< > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja@lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > > > From gullik.webjorn at flysta.net Wed Jun 18 22:22:09 2003 From: gullik.webjorn at flysta.net (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Gullik_Webj=F6rn?=) Date: Wed Jun 18 20:21:37 2003 Subject: SV: [Ronja]5,5-7ns rise time is enough for 100Mbps link? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: TX clock is 125 Mhz, the 100 mbit is 5b4b encoded, 5/4*100 = 125. The result is sent as AMI (modified) over twisted pair. so the sequence 01010101010101 comes out 0v, +1v, 0v ,-1v, 0v, +1v, 0v, -1v etc etc this is the worst case from an frequency response point. between two similar points on the waveform, for example from +1v to +1v there are 4 time intervals of 1/125 Mhz = 4 * 8 nS = 32 nS. This corresponds to a maximum frequency of 1/32ns = 31.25 Mhz. If your transmission channel can reproduce a 31.25 Mhz waveform with little delay or amplitude distortion, it should be compatible. Gullik -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- Fr?n: ronja-bounces+gullik.webjorn=flysta.net@lists.pointless.net [mailto:ronja-bounces+gullik.webjorn=flysta.net@lists.pointless.net]F?r Electro PT Skickat: den 18 juni 2003 20:12 Till: GPL free-space optical datalink ?mne: Re: [Ronja]5,5-7ns rise time is enough for 100Mbps link? Hi I interpreted from a message posted by Gullik some time ago. Its in my first mail... After reading (part of) the ieee document, I found out that the TX clock is 1/4 of the signaling rate ie 25MHz (in 100baseT). So my question is this, does the modulation frequency need to be atmost 25MHz or at least? One other thing, the max delay in 100Mbit stated in the ieee doc is rather high (more than 8ns). Does is have to do anything to RT/FT of the gates leds etc? Sorry if I aked realy stupid questions, but I realy want to help :o) Electro PT ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gullik Webjorn" To: "GPL free-space optical datalink" Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 9:44 PM Subject: SV: [Ronja]5,5-7ns rise time is enough for 100Mbps link? > Whomever passed that info is correct in principle: > > Since MLT-3 is a slightly modified variant of ami ( alternate mark > inversion ) > the main lobe is contained within 1/4 the signalling rate, as compared to > NRZ at 1/2 sigalling rate and manchester at 1 times rate. Thus it should be > possible to contain 100 base TX signalling within half the bandwidth of > 100 base FX. That matches some of the LED based optical components fairly > well. > > Since some succesful attempts have been made with laser pointers, maybee > that > would be an easier path to go to get a 100 Mbit/sec Sonja. Leds with 60+ > Mhz bandwidth are rare (except for RCleds) > > Sonja = (Superb optical near joint access) > > Gullik > > > Skickat: den 18 juni 2003 00:55 > Till: GPL free-space optical datalink > Amne: Re: [Ronja]5,5-7ns rise time is enough for 100Mbps link? > > > On Sat, Jun 14, 2003 at 02:59:59PM +0100, Electro PT wrote: > > Hi > > > > Does 100baseT has a maximum working frequency of 31mhz? Is this a typo or > is > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > What source did you dig this information from? > > Cl< > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja@lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > > > _______________________________________________ Ronja mailing list Ronja@lists.pointless.net http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From boza2 at volny.cz Wed Jun 18 23:16:41 2003 From: boza2 at volny.cz (Ondrej Tesar) Date: Wed Jun 18 21:48:34 2003 Subject: [Ronja] provoz bez optiky a napeti RSSI In-Reply-To: <200306170627.56139.zapadlo@melzer.cz> References: <200306161253.55063.zapadlo@melzer.cz> <20030617022513.A9096@beton.cybernet.cz> <200306162054.41188.vojta@sinus.cz> <200306170627.56139.zapadlo@melzer.cz> Message-ID: <1243948232.20030618221641@volny.cz> Pokud to opravdu mate od Corelxta a pokud se nepletu, tak mate HPWT-BD00-E4000. OndraT >> Prijimaci BPW43, vysilaci HPWT-BD00, koupene od corelxt@email.cz. PZ> Mam stejne oszeni, dokonce i zdroj BD00 je stejny :-). From boza2 at volny.cz Wed Jun 18 23:41:31 2003 From: boza2 at volny.cz (Ondrej Tesar) Date: Wed Jun 18 21:48:37 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Par dotazu In-Reply-To: <20030609231344.A924@beton.cybernet.cz> References: <200306090626.16919.zapadlo@melzer.cz> <20030609132812.D394@beton.cybernet.cz> <508c8996e92d1a5b12c83e627343dc45@www3.mail.volny.cz> <20030609231344.A924@beton.cybernet.cz> Message-ID: <1295438007.20030618224131@volny.cz> C> No moje, uz asi 3/4 roku nezmenena konstrukce, viz http://ronja.twibright.com, C> vypada podstatne jinak. Mam ji tady a jsem s ni naprosto spokojen, slo to C> zamerit uz od zacatku bezproblemove. Jenze pokud se nepletu, tak jsi nikdy nezameroval na vice jak 260m. Na takhle "malou" vzdalenost si to taky dovedu predstavit "na odrazku". C> Co napriklad u Ondry Tesare dle meho nazoru hrube nevychazi z mych doporuceni C> jsou ty plastovy trubky, ktery si rikaj o pozar, stejne jako se na czfree se uz C> nekomu podarilo uvest obejvak pri experimentech s cockama do pozaru plamenama. C> Nehlede na to, ze tenhle mizernej kanalizacni termoplastik je primo delanej na C> to, aby to casem uhybalo. Stale jsem nepoznal nejaky poradny duvod, proc je ten "kanalizacni termoplastik mizernej". Je blby, se se zatim nemuzu ohanet vlastni linkou, ale co jsem videl u Corelxta, tak to ma taky v plastu a nevim o tom, ze by se to nejak podelavalo. Zato jsem slysel od jbohace, ze zelezne tubusy i po 5ti vrstvach nateru rezly uz po par tydnech. Navrhni nejaky brutalni test, jak zjistit co ty plasty vydrzej! At to neni v rovine teoreticke debaty. OndraT C> Cl< From clock at atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz Thu Jun 19 09:48:49 2003 From: clock at atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz (Clock) Date: Wed Jun 18 23:47:46 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Par dotazu In-Reply-To: <1295438007.20030618224131@volny.cz>; from boza2@volny.cz on Wed, Jun 18, 2003 at 10:41:31PM +0200 References: <200306090626.16919.zapadlo@melzer.cz> <20030609132812.D394@beton.cybernet.cz> <508c8996e92d1a5b12c83e627343dc45@www3.mail.volny.cz> <20030609231344.A924@beton.cybernet.cz> <1295438007.20030618224131@volny.cz> Message-ID: <20030619084849.A397@beton.cybernet.cz> On Wed, Jun 18, 2003 at 10:41:31PM +0200, Ondrej Tesar wrote: > C> No moje, uz asi 3/4 roku nezmenena konstrukce, viz http://ronja.twibright.com, > C> vypada podstatne jinak. Mam ji tady a jsem s ni naprosto spokojen, slo to > C> zamerit uz od zacatku bezproblemove. > > Jenze pokud se nepletu, tak jsi nikdy nezameroval na vice jak 260m. Na > takhle "malou" vzdalenost si to taky dovedu predstavit "na odrazku". Odrazka, na niz se uspesne zameroval 1.7km spoj vypada takhle: http://ronja.azrael.sk/gallery/installations/kecskemet/thumb/im000112-1-0.html Cl< From tomas at ccscb.cz Fri Jun 20 15:22:57 2003 From: tomas at ccscb.cz (Ing. Tomas Simek) Date: Fri Jun 20 13:23:07 2003 Subject: [Ronja] =?iso-8859-2?q?Ud=EClal_jsem_plo=B9n=E9?= spoje Message-ID: <200306201422.57136.tomas@ccscb.cz> Ano je to tak a funguj? bez optiky s mizern?m st?n?n?m a? na dva metry. Za ?as p?edstav?m i mechaniku p??mo pro n?. Jsou pod GPL, ale m??u je i poslat na dob?rku s m?rn?m ziskem. Vice na www.ccsi.cz/ronja. From dts at dimensional.com Fri Jun 20 14:48:54 2003 From: dts at dimensional.com (Scott Norris) Date: Fri Jun 20 20:48:59 2003 Subject: [Ronja] AUI Transceivers Message-ID: Hello All, I am looking into building a Ronja system, and was wondering if anyone had tried using an AUI to UTP converter. Would it be possible to run Ronja into the converter's AUI side, and then run UTP to a hub or network card? I have not seen any PCI NICs with AUI connectors, and newer motherboards are not coming with ISA slots anymore. Just an idea, but there are tons of these converters on Ebay for dirt cheap... Scott Norris Data Transfer Systems, Inc. dts@dimensional.com *** System Integrity, Security and Solutions for All Platforms *** From michal.grunt at iol.cz Thu Jun 19 20:16:16 2003 From: michal.grunt at iol.cz (Michal Grunt) Date: Fri Jun 20 22:20:04 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Konektor na RT, TX In-Reply-To: <20030618005650.E2382@beton.cybernet.cz> References: <000601c33046$c478c940$152ea8c0@x7i3g3> <20030618005650.E2382@beton.cybernet.cz> Message-ID: <14187432437.20030619191616@iol.cz> Ano. Je v tom nejaky problem? > Co tvori centralni kontakt u F konektoru? Jestli si dobre pamatuju, neni > tam z jedne strany medeny drat toho koaxialniho kabelu? -- Michal Grunt From vojta at sinus.cz Sat Jun 21 10:25:14 2003 From: vojta at sinus.cz (=?iso-8859-2?q?Vojt=ECch=20Pithart?=) Date: Sat Jun 21 08:25:25 2003 Subject: [Ronja] =?iso-8859-2?q?Ud=EClal=20jsem=20plo=B9n=E9?= spoje In-Reply-To: <200306201422.57136.tomas@ccscb.cz> References: <200306201422.57136.tomas@ccscb.cz> Message-ID: <200306210925.14220.vojta@sinus.cz> Dobra prace! Vam i zamestnavateli patri obrovsky dik za velky prinos do Open Hardware sveta. Dne p? 20. ?ervna 2003 14:22 Ing. Tomas Simek napsal(a): > Ano je to tak a funguj? bez optiky s mizern?m st?n?n?m a? na dva metry. Za > ?as p?edstav?m i mechaniku p??mo pro n?. Jsou pod GPL, ale m??u je i poslat > na dob?rku s m?rn?m ziskem. Vice na www.ccsi.cz/ronja. > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja@lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From rjw at alembic.com Sat Jun 21 15:59:38 2003 From: rjw at alembic.com (Ron Wickersham) Date: Sat Jun 21 22:59:14 2003 Subject: [Ronja] AUI Transceivers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 21 Jun 2003 ronja-request@lists.pointless.net wrote: > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 13:48:54 -0600 > From: "Scott Norris" > Subject: [Ronja] AUI Transceivers > To: > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Hello All, > > I am looking into building a Ronja system, and was wondering if anyone had > tried using an AUI to UTP converter. Would it be possible to run Ronja into > the converter's AUI side, and then run UTP to a hub or network card? I have > not seen any PCI NICs with AUI connectors, and newer motherboards are not > coming with ISA slots anymore. Just an idea, but there are tons of these > converters on Ebay for dirt cheap... > > Scott Norris hi Scott, the converts you see a lot of are twisted pair transcievers, a type of MAU, media attachment unit. they have 15 male pins in the D connector and the funny posts for the slider-type retainer found on the AUI. taking one company's product, the CentreCOM 210TS by Allied Telesyn International is of this type. power to the unit is supplied thru the 15-pin connector. a unit that exactly fits the requirements is called a media converter by Allied Telesyn and their model CentreCOM MC12T has one of the little DC connectors to supply power from a wall wart and has 15 female pins and the slider-type retainer just like AUI ports on a host interface card. this particular example also has a switch for the for the UTP port so you don't have to use a crossover cable (provides both MDI and MDI-X). i don't see why feeding power to a conventional tranciever wouldn't work but i haven't tried it. -ron From boza2 at volny.cz Sun Jun 22 23:59:50 2003 From: boza2 at volny.cz (Ondrej Tesar) Date: Sun Jun 22 21:59:59 2003 Subject: =?ISO-8859-2?Q?Re=3A_=5BRonja=5D_Ud=EClal_jsem_plo=B9n=E9_spoje?= In-Reply-To: <200306201422.57136.tomas@ccscb.cz> References: <200306201422.57136.tomas@ccscb.cz> Message-ID: <181522547.20030622225950@volny.cz> Dotaz: Jsou ty tistaky navrhovane primo do nejakych konkretnich a sehnatelnych krabicek? Ondra ITS> Ano je to tak a funguj? bez optiky s mizern?m st?n?n?m a? na dva metry. Za ?as ITS> p?edstav?m i mechaniku p??mo pro n?. Jsou pod GPL, ale m??u je i poslat na ITS> dob?rku s m?rn?m ziskem. Vice na www.ccsi.cz/ronja. ITS> _______________________________________________ ITS> Ronja mailing list ITS> Ronja@lists.pointless.net ITS> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From p.kral at sh.cvut.cz Mon Jun 23 01:34:57 2003 From: p.kral at sh.cvut.cz (=?iso-8859-2?Q?Pavel_Kr=E1l?=) Date: Sun Jun 22 23:35:20 2003 Subject: =?iso-8859-2?Q?Re:_=5BRonja=5D_Ud=EClal_jsem_plo=B9n=E9_spoje?= References: <200306201422.57136.tomas@ccscb.cz> <181522547.20030622225950@volny.cz> Message-ID: <006901c3390e$88654750$18762093@ibmxx> >Dotaz: >Jsou ty tistaky navrhovane primo do nejakych konkretnich a >sehnatelnych krabicek? U aktualnich plosnaku je AUI navrzene do plastovych krabicek sehnatelnych v GMku podle starsiho katalogu, nyni uz je GMko neprodava, az provedeme s Tomasem modifikaci (AUI s krystalem podle P.Siegela, u TX snizeni indukcnosti a u RX si trochu pohrajeme s kaskodou, komparatorem a limiterem) uverejnime plosnaky ktere padnou do tech bezne sehnatelnych pocinovanych krabicek co je maj v GMku. Case From tomas at ccscb.cz Mon Jun 23 17:21:57 2003 From: tomas at ccscb.cz (Ing. Tomas Simek) Date: Mon Jun 23 15:22:03 2003 Subject: [Ronja] PCB a mechanika Message-ID: <200306231621.57213.tomas@ccscb.cz> Nejsou udelane primo do krabicky, ale pro montaz na nasi mechaniku, co dela kolega. Pri dalsi schuzce to nafotim a dame k dispozici dokumentaci na www.ccsi.cz/ronja Problem je s AUI protoze jsem je navrhl do krabicky od GME co prodavaji pod oznacenim UK1-*, ale ty uz nejsou a nebudou k sehnani. Do budoucna pracuju na jine jednodussi verzi AUI s PAL obvodem, tak to pride i do jine krabicky From clock at atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz Tue Jun 24 23:10:10 2003 From: clock at atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz (Clock) Date: Tue Jun 24 13:08:10 2003 Subject: =?iso-8859-2?Q?=5BRonja=5D_Ud=EClal_jsem_plo=B9n=E9_spoje?= In-Reply-To: <006901c3390e$88654750$18762093@ibmxx>; from p.kral@sh.cvut.cz on Mon, Jun 23, 2003 at 12:34:57AM +0200 References: <200306201422.57136.tomas@ccscb.cz> <181522547.20030622225950@volny.cz> <006901c3390e$88654750$18762093@ibmxx> Message-ID: <20030624221010.A331@beton.cybernet.cz> On Mon, Jun 23, 2003 at 12:34:57AM +0200, Pavel Kr?l wrote: > > > >Dotaz: > >Jsou ty tistaky navrhovane primo do nejakych konkretnich a > >sehnatelnych krabicek? > > U aktualnich plosnaku je AUI navrzene do plastovych krabicek sehnatelnych v GMku podle > starsiho katalogu, nyni uz je GMko neprodava, az provedeme s Tomasem modifikaci (AUI s > krystalem podle P.Siegela, u TX snizeni indukcnosti a u RX si trochu pohrajeme s kaskodou, Zarucuje ta modifikace podle P. Siegela, ze se nestane, ze se krystalovy oscilator nerozbehne? Ja jsem si s krystaly uzil uz dost a rikal jsem si vzdy, bud hotovy oscilator ktery se da vyrobci omlatit o hlavu kdyz nepojede, a jinak s krystaly konec :) Cl< From Seligr at sh.cvut.cz Tue Jun 24 16:49:34 2003 From: Seligr at sh.cvut.cz (Seligr@sh.cvut.cz) Date: Tue Jun 24 14:50:33 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Oscilator Message-ID: <3EF8730E.1030.107E1B@localhost> Jde o hotovy krystalovy oscilator 1MHz s vystupem TTL kompatibilnim. Podle katalogu je funkce garantovana od 0 do 70?C, ve skutecnosti o dost vic obema smery. (Jeste to hodlam dukladne overit v termostatu od -40 do 100?C.) Uvnitr je zapojeni s tranzistory a navic blokovacim kondenzatorem 10n, takze uroven ruseni smerem ven je minimalni. Takze zaverem: pravdepodobnost, ze se to rozbehne, neni o nic mensi nez u originalu s hradly a RC clankem. Duvod pouziti byl ze za cenu 85Kc se usetri dost spoju, jedno hradlo a hodne mista v krabicce a hlavne prace. Tahle modifikace je k videni na laser.webpark.cz/ronja.html, schema tam je take. Ten oscilator je ta neoznacena krabicka ve schematu, zhruba uprostred, s vyvody UCC, GND, NC, OUT. Podotykam, ze pokud nesezenete oscilator1MHz, tak je mozne na vlastni nebezpeci pouzit 1,83..MHz, ktery je dostupnejsi. P. Seliger > Zarucuje ta modifikace podle P. Siegela, ze se nestane, ze se krystalovy oscilator > nerozbehne? Ja jsem si s krystaly uzil uz dost a rikal jsem si vzdy, bud hotovy oscilator > ktery se da vyrobci omlatit o hlavu kdyz nepojede, a jinak s krystaly konec :) > Cl< From vojta at sinus.cz Wed Jun 25 21:23:44 2003 From: vojta at sinus.cz (=?iso-8859-2?q?Vojt=ECch=20Pithart?=) Date: Wed Jun 25 19:23:54 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Re: Ronja - AUI In-Reply-To: <20030616081939.A26513@beton.cybernet.cz> References: <003401c3338a$5a2ce160$0102a8c0@x7i3g3> <20030616081939.A26513@beton.cybernet.cz> Message-ID: <200306252023.44352.vojta@sinus.cz> Dne po 16. ?ervna 2003 08:19 Clock napsal(a): > Umi. Ale myslim ze nejstarsi verze 3c900 fullduplex neumely. Ostatne tuto > informaci by mel davat k produktu vyrobce, pokud ji nedava, je to dle meho > nazoru spatny vyrobce. Ahoj, lze to urcit z data vyroby? Mam 3c900 z bazarku a je tam r.v. 1996. Je to ona 'nejstarsi verze'? Vojta Lhota From zapadlo at melzer.cz Thu Jun 26 08:10:06 2003 From: zapadlo at melzer.cz (Petr Zapadlo) Date: Thu Jun 26 06:10:15 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Re: Ronja - AUI In-Reply-To: <200306252023.44352.vojta@sinus.cz> References: <003401c3338a$5a2ce160$0102a8c0@x7i3g3> <20030616081939.A26513@beton.cybernet.cz> <200306252023.44352.vojta@sinus.cz> Message-ID: <200306260710.06778.zapadlo@melzer.cz> Dne st 25. ?ervna 2003 20:23 Vojt?ch Pithart napsal(a): > Dne po 16. ?ervna 2003 08:19 Clock napsal(a): > > Umi. Ale myslim ze nejstarsi verze 3c900 fullduplex neumely. Ostatne tuto > > informaci by mel davat k produktu vyrobce, pokud ji nedava, je to dle > > meho nazoru spatny vyrobce. > Troufam si temer 100% tvrdit ze 3c900 jsou vsechny full duplexove (PCI karta). 3C900 mely predchudce 3C590 (taky PCI karta) ktere vychazeli z ISA 3509 ale mely jinou sbernici. A ty byly taky FD. No a pak byli ISA 3C509-x a 3C509B-x No a ty 3C509-x (bez B) nebyly FD. 3C509B-x (to x je revize, mam tu karty od a az po c) maji FD ale sw na nastaveni ho neumi na AUI zapnout, resilo se to upravou driveru a nebo nastrojem tusim ethtool > Ahoj, > lze to urcit z data vyroby? Mam 3c900 z bazarku a je tam r.v. 1996. Je to > ona 'nejstarsi verze'? > Troufam si tvrdit ze je 100% FD. Jen tato rada karet je pomerne narocna na kvlalitu PCI sbernic, uz se mi stalo v nekolika pripadech ze prokazatelne dobra karta (chodila pred tim v nekolika mb) mi v jednom konkretnim pripade nechtela chodit. Souvisi to se slotem a jeho schopnosti Bus masteringu. Toz tak nejak, alespon z meho pohledu. S pozdravem -- Petr "Zapik" Zapadlo Ing. Petr Zapadlo vedouc? odd?len? syst?mov? podpory Melzer, spol. s r.o. Doln? 71, 796 01 Prost?jov tel: 582 330 301 fax: 582 330 302 mailto: zapadlo@melzer.cz http://www.melzer.cz From vojta at sinus.cz Thu Jun 26 13:08:16 2003 From: vojta at sinus.cz (=?iso-8859-2?q?Vojt=ECch=20Pithart?=) Date: Thu Jun 26 11:08:25 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Re: Ronja - AUI In-Reply-To: <200306260710.06778.zapadlo@melzer.cz> References: <003401c3338a$5a2ce160$0102a8c0@x7i3g3> <200306252023.44352.vojta@sinus.cz> <200306260710.06778.zapadlo@melzer.cz> Message-ID: <200306261208.16411.vojta@sinus.cz> Diky moc za zkusene info. S tou narocnosti na sbernici mas pravdu, jiz jsem zaznamenal, ze v jednom z pocu me jedna z 3c900 karet obcas delala 1) to, ze jsem videl pci zarizeni Vyrobce 0x10b7 (3com), ale zarizeni se nacetlo jako 0x000 misto 0x9001 - timpadem driver odmital poracovat. Take delala 2) to, ze pri behu to najednou do syslogu zacalo psat nejake transmit errory a pod tim vzdy asi 25 radek s nejakou historii cehosi (sama cisla) a karta nevysilala. Pomohlo jen vypnout a zapnout poc. -V- > Troufam si tvrdit ze je 100% FD. Jen tato rada karet je pomerne narocna na > kvlalitu PCI sbernic, uz se mi stalo v nekolika pripadech ze prokazatelne > dobra karta (chodila pred tim v nekolika mb) mi v jednom konkretnim pripade > nechtela chodit. Souvisi to se slotem a jeho schopnosti Bus masteringu. From clock at atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz Thu Jun 26 20:27:42 2003 From: clock at atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz (Clock) Date: Thu Jun 26 18:27:46 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Re: Ronja - AUI In-Reply-To: <200306261208.16411.vojta@sinus.cz>; from vojta@sinus.cz on Thu, Jun 26, 2003 at 12:08:16PM +0200 References: <003401c3338a$5a2ce160$0102a8c0@x7i3g3> <200306252023.44352.vojta@sinus.cz> <200306260710.06778.zapadlo@melzer.cz> <200306261208.16411.vojta@sinus.cz> Message-ID: <20030626192742.B311@beton.cybernet.cz> On Thu, Jun 26, 2003 at 12:08:16PM +0200, Vojt?ch Pithart wrote: > Diky moc za zkusene info. S tou narocnosti na sbernici mas pravdu, jiz jsem > zaznamenal, ze v jednom z pocu me jedna z 3c900 karet obcas delala 1) to, ze > jsem videl pci zarizeni Vyrobce 0x10b7 (3com), ale zarizeni se nacetlo jako > 0x000 misto 0x9001 - timpadem driver odmital poracovat. Take delala 2) to, ze > pri behu to najednou do syslogu zacalo psat nejake transmit errory a pod tim > vzdy asi 25 radek s nejakou historii cehosi (sama cisla) a karta nevysilala. > Pomohlo jen vypnout a zapnout poc. To druhe ty karty delaji kdyz maji nahodny binarni signal na prijimacim vstupu AUI. Nam v BSD jeste delaly dalsi vec -- kdyz mely nahodny binarni signal na vstupu, tak se prepnuly na 4. neexistujici transceiver (jsou tam tri existujici -- TP, AUI a BNC) a pocitac se musel rebootovat aby se to zase spravilo. Situace kdyz je na vstupu nahodny binarni signal je kdyz slunicko sviti prilis blizko trasy a prijima se slunecni sum, ktery je silnejsi nez vysilany signal z druhe strany. Cl< > > > -V- > > > Troufam si tvrdit ze je 100% FD. Jen tato rada karet je pomerne narocna na > > kvlalitu PCI sbernic, uz se mi stalo v nekolika pripadech ze prokazatelne > > dobra karta (chodila pred tim v nekolika mb) mi v jednom konkretnim pripade > > nechtela chodit. Souvisi to se slotem a jeho schopnosti Bus masteringu. > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja@lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From clock at atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz Thu Jun 26 22:40:08 2003 From: clock at atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz (Clock) Date: Thu Jun 26 20:40:11 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Re: Srouby k TX a RX In-Reply-To: <34341859.20030626211521@iol.cz>; from michal.grunt@iol.cz on Thu, Jun 26, 2003 at 09:15:21PM +0200 References: <34341859.20030626211521@iol.cz> Message-ID: <20030626214008.A728@beton.cybernet.cz> On Thu, Jun 26, 2003 at 09:15:21PM +0200, Michal Grunt wrote: > Nevadi kdyz budou mit srouby delku 4cm misto 3.5cm? Kratsi jsem > nesehnal a jestli neni nutnost je zkratit tak bych je nechal tak jak > jsou (posledni dobou jsem nejak liny :)). Navic by se pri zkraceni > porusil povlak naneseny na sroubu a byl asi by vice nachylny k reznuti. jestli jsou to ty srouby co pujdou do slotu zamerovani (takove ty podlouhle diry po okraji trubky) tak tam to vadit bude, budete muset trubku zmacknout brutalnejsi silou pri instalaci elektroniky. U ostatnich sroubu je to jedno. Cl< From boza2 at volny.cz Fri Jun 27 09:37:12 2003 From: boza2 at volny.cz (Ondrej Tesar) Date: Fri Jun 27 07:38:25 2003 Subject: [Ronja] jak na citlivost prijimace Message-ID: <20976883.20030627083712@volny.cz> Dobr? den, mam Rx, air construction, v plechovych krabickach. Dosah bez optiky byl 1.5m. Omeril jsem kontrolni body a zjistil, ze na vystupu FETu je 3.5V misto 6-7V. Tudiz jsem zmensil odpor z + z 820 na 470ohmu. Napeti mi vzrostlo na 6.6V, ale dosah se snizil na 0.5m bez optiky. Ostatni napeti jsou o max. 0.5V mimo to co je na schematu. Navic se Rx level zacal chovat divne, ukazuje cca. 300mV signalu, i kdyz ho uplne odstinim od zareni vysilace. Nesetkal jste se s tim nekdo? Nenapada vas, co postelovat? Ja uz jsem nejak v koncich :-( Ondrej Tesar From clock at atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz Fri Jun 27 10:19:59 2003 From: clock at atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz (Clock) Date: Fri Jun 27 08:20:07 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Re: ronja page In-Reply-To: <3EFBE98D.5090607@helsinki.fi>; from Kliment.Yanev@helsinki.fi on Fri, Jun 27, 2003 at 09:51:57AM +0300 References: <3EFBE98D.5090607@helsinki.fi> Message-ID: <20030627091959.A238@beton.cybernet.cz> On Fri, Jun 27, 2003 at 09:51:57AM +0300, Kliment Yanev wrote: > the ronja page seems to be down. Are you aware of this? I have tried all historical URLs and all work: http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~clock/twibright/ronja http://ronja.jikos.cz http://ronja.advel.cz http://ronja.twibright.com btw ronja.twibright.com is the official URL at the moment and I hope it won't change as it's my domain and I can redirect the record in case the hosting changes. Cl< From clock at atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz Fri Jun 27 12:41:22 2003 From: clock at atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz (Clock) Date: Fri Jun 27 10:41:24 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Re: ronja page In-Reply-To: <3EFBF605.3020408@helsinki.fi>; from Kliment.Yanev@helsinki.fi on Fri, Jun 27, 2003 at 10:45:09AM +0300 References: <3EFBE98D.5090607@helsinki.fi> <20030627091959.A238@beton.cybernet.cz> <3EFBF605.3020408@helsinki.fi> Message-ID: <20030627114122.A8316@beton.cybernet.cz> On Fri, Jun 27, 2003 at 10:45:09AM +0300, Kliment Yanev wrote: > btw, has an development been done on the 100Mbit version? I didn't see No. A the moment I am working on Ronja Sniffer, which is a portable device for fine and comfortable finding and analyzing the signal. But the 100Mbps version is something I would like to make too :) I am going to change the paradigm of Ronja project. I realized that GPL for free in an open-hardware project is a good platform for feeding various unhonest persons. And commercializing Ronja puts it side by side other commercial development. Commercial development is a piece of shit. Instead of cooperation, people conduct war against each other. Secrecy is one of their weapons. Their contribution to public knowledge on the field is minimal. When a bug occurs, what a commercial manufacturer does is to hide the problem instead of solving it until the pressure of public opinion forces it otherwise, which is usually late and causes lots of lost time to the consumers. Consumers usually don't demand quality, they demand quantity, short time-to-market. In commercial environment, the behaviour of the manufacturer is directed tightly by the consumers, so the manufacturer is forced to make crap, because masses demand it. They don't even have to keep the design functional. If failure occurs in 1% of the devices, the consumers simply exchange it on a warranty, which is lawful, but costs them enormous amounts of time. Making the devices at more quality yields extra expenses and no revenue. By selling things, you become a seller. By manufacturing things you become a worker. What I wanna be is a developper, designer. So I decided to change the project paradigm this way: RONJA WILL REMAIN GPL ===================== But one tiny hitch will be added: I'll develop something, count how many hours of work it took, how many CZK were burned on the material, state some per-hour work cost, and publish the resulting costs. Then I'll wait until people sent enough sponsor contributions to cover the project. Only then I'll release the design under GPL. Before this, the design will remain unreleased. Everyone will be listed on a page, the most massive contributors at the top. Everyone will be then able to say "Look grandma, do you see that device on the rooftop? All these devices all over the world contain a preamplifier, whose development I have paid!" This is a simple, reliable, money-first trick: I simply refuse to work for free. I have realized that after a period of time of working for free, the fridge becomes empty. And the wallets of various dubious individua that breach GPL, lie, use the Ronja project name for dircty marketing tricks and do various other nasty things on or behind the verge of law, become full. What's under development ------------------------ I have designed and lab-tested a wonderful optics for Ronja 10M Interpolis that has a great performance/price ratio and excellent eye safety. Now it's waiting for mechanical assembly and for patching the TX electronics. Now I am working on the sniffer. There is about half of the prototype soldered up on my desk. Yesterday there was still none :) I'll release it after it will do something useful well, then there will be more features added. There has been just one 1000CZK contribution to Ronja Project by JKLamer from CZFree. This will be added to the first project that will go out on this new paradigm. Probably the sniffer. Cl< > any mention of it on the site. You had some ideas about it a couple > years back on the mailing list, but never published anything more specific. From smoerk at gmx.de Fri Jun 27 16:13:55 2003 From: smoerk at gmx.de (oliverthuns) Date: Fri Jun 27 14:14:01 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Re: ronja page In-Reply-To: <20030627114122.A8316@beton.cybernet.cz> References: <3EFBE98D.5090607@helsinki.fi> <20030627091959.A238@beton.cybernet.cz> <3EFBF605.3020408@helsinki.fi> <20030627114122.A8316@beton.cybernet.cz> Message-ID: Clock wrote: > RONJA WILL REMAIN GPL > ===================== > > But one tiny hitch will be added: I'll develop something, count how many hours > of work it took, how many CZK were burned on the material, state some per-hour > work cost, and publish the resulting costs. Then I'll wait until people sent > enough sponsor contributions to cover the project. Only then I'll release the > design under GPL. Before this, the design will remain unreleased. what happen to the peoples money, if it never covers the projects overall costs? From clock at atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz Fri Jun 27 16:24:11 2003 From: clock at atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz (Clock) Date: Fri Jun 27 14:24:14 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Re: ronja page In-Reply-To: ; from smoerk@gmx.de on Fri, Jun 27, 2003 at 03:13:55PM +0200 References: <3EFBE98D.5090607@helsinki.fi> <20030627091959.A238@beton.cybernet.cz> <3EFBF605.3020408@helsinki.fi> <20030627114122.A8316@beton.cybernet.cz> Message-ID: <20030627152411.A12796@beton.cybernet.cz> On Fri, Jun 27, 2003 at 03:13:55PM +0200, oliverthuns wrote: > Clock wrote: > > > RONJA WILL REMAIN GPL > > ===================== > > > > But one tiny hitch will be added: I'll develop something, count how many hours > > of work it took, how many CZK were burned on the material, state some per-hour > > work cost, and publish the resulting costs. Then I'll wait until people sent > > enough sponsor contributions to cover the project. Only then I'll release the > > design under GPL. Before this, the design will remain unreleased. > > what happen to the peoples money, if it never covers the projects > overall costs? They will allocate for another project. I'll try to break down the projects into as small parts as possible that are useful for something. For example, there will be basic sniffer, a sniffer with LCD readout and so on. Cl< > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja@lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From kaisert at pf.jcu.cz Fri Jun 27 17:28:27 2003 From: kaisert at pf.jcu.cz (Tomas Kaiser) Date: Fri Jun 27 15:35:52 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Velikost cocek In-Reply-To: <20030627152411.A12796@beton.cybernet.cz> References: <3EFBE98D.5090607@helsinki.fi> <20030627091959.A238@beton.cybernet.cz> <3EFBF605.3020408@helsinki.fi> <20030627114122.A8316@beton.cybernet.cz> <20030627152411.A12796@beton.cybernet.cz> Message-ID: <20030627142827.GA2103@laura.pf.jcu.cz> Mam takovy, asi stupidni, dotaz: co by se stalo, kdybych na vzdalenost napr. 400m pouzil cocky o prumeru 13,5cm? -- Tomas Kaiser Pedagogicka fakulta Jihoceske univerzity Oddeleni spravy informacnich systemu Tel: +420-38-9033104 Mobil: +420-724106790 [Our hardware runs better without Windows (BMW 320 Cabrio)] From clock at atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz Fri Jun 27 20:33:09 2003 From: clock at atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz (Clock) Date: Fri Jun 27 18:33:11 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Velikost cocek In-Reply-To: <20030627142827.GA2103@laura.pf.jcu.cz>; from kaisert@pf.jcu.cz on Fri, Jun 27, 2003 at 04:28:27PM +0200 References: <3EFBE98D.5090607@helsinki.fi> <20030627091959.A238@beton.cybernet.cz> <3EFBF605.3020408@helsinki.fi> <20030627114122.A8316@beton.cybernet.cz> <20030627152411.A12796@beton.cybernet.cz> <20030627142827.GA2103@laura.pf.jcu.cz> Message-ID: <20030627193309.A13042@beton.cybernet.cz> On Fri, Jun 27, 2003 at 04:28:27PM +0200, Tomas Kaiser wrote: > > Mam takovy, asi stupidni, dotaz: > > co by se stalo, kdybych na vzdalenost napr. 400m pouzil cocky o prumeru > 13,5cm? Nic, jelo by to jeste lip :) Cl< > > -- > Tomas Kaiser > Pedagogicka fakulta Jihoceske univerzity > Oddeleni spravy informacnich systemu > Tel: +420-38-9033104 > Mobil: +420-724106790 > > [Our hardware runs better without Windows (BMW 320 Cabrio)] > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja@lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From clock at atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz Sat Jun 28 18:47:29 2003 From: clock at atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz (Clock) Date: Sat Jun 28 16:47:36 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Re: ronja page In-Reply-To: <02aa01c33d05$33bb0050$ab033493@ucnet.uoc.gr>; from ppolitop@uoc.gr on Sat, Jun 28, 2003 at 02:38:23AM +0300 References: <3EFBE98D.5090607@helsinki.fi><20030627091959.A238@beton.cybernet.cz><3EFBF605.3020408@helsinki.fi><20030627114122.A8316@beton.cybernet.cz> <20030627152411.A12796@beton.cybernet.cz> <02aa01c33d05$33bb0050$ab033493@ucnet.uoc.gr> Message-ID: <20030628174729.B223@beton.cybernet.cz> On Sat, Jun 28, 2003 at 02:38:23AM +0300, ????t?p????? ??t??? wrote: > Hello Clock, > > I really appreciate your work and i also believe in GPL projects. Given the > opportunity many times i also spent a lot of time creating things for my > friends, the community or even complete strangers. I also noted that people > tend to take advantage of us and that we get rats in return. > > I would like to propose to you to continue your work on improving Ronja, > instead of building sniffers e.t.c. Ronja can be improved in many ways such But the sniffer is very necessary component for aiming Ronjas. It will become a part of the Metropolis design :) Cl< > as speed, distance coverage, reliability and many more. This is what > everyone will pay for... > thanx for your time > > > the doc > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Clock" > To: "GPL free-space optical datalink" > Sent: Friday, June 27, 2003 4:24 PM > Subject: Re: [Ronja] Re: ronja page > > > > On Fri, Jun 27, 2003 at 03:13:55PM +0200, oliverthuns wrote: > > > Clock wrote: > > > > > > > RONJA WILL REMAIN GPL > > > > ===================== > > > > > > > > But one tiny hitch will be added: I'll develop something, count how > many hours > > > > of work it took, how many CZK were burned on the material, state some > per-hour > > > > work cost, and publish the resulting costs. Then I'll wait until > people sent > > > > enough sponsor contributions to cover the project. Only then I'll > release the > > > > design under GPL. Before this, the design will remain unreleased. > > > > > > what happen to the peoples money, if it never covers the projects > > > overall costs? > > > > They will allocate for another project. I'll try to break down the > projects > > into as small parts as possible that are useful for something. For > example, > > there will be basic sniffer, a sniffer with LCD readout and so on. > > > > Cl< > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Ronja mailing list > > > Ronja@lists.pointless.net > > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ronja mailing list > > Ronja@lists.pointless.net > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > > From clock at atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz Sun Jun 29 15:21:22 2003 From: clock at atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz (Clock) Date: Sun Jun 29 13:21:37 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Re: ronja page.. think.. don't be angry on me.my ideea..:) In-Reply-To: <883266EBB9FDB941B1D05FD4F81276C71C715A@olsmail.olsasp.intern>; from sorin@mail.ols.ro on Sat, Jun 28, 2003 at 07:55:07PM +0300 References: <883266EBB9FDB941B1D05FD4F81276C71C715A@olsmail.olsasp.intern> Message-ID: <20030629142122.C2700@beton.cybernet.cz> On Sat, Jun 28, 2003 at 07:55:07PM +0300, Popa Popescu Sorin wrote: > ----------------------------------------------------- > sal clock, > what represent Ronja 10 M Interpolis? Tp Ronja? do you make improvements > at Tp ronja from highlander? ..something like..full duplex.. > and..what is it with ..''1.5Km distance''..with led's?..:))..with my > hpwt-bd00-f4000 and 127mm dia lens never can go over 700-800m (max).. Then you must have something wrong. With the same kit, there is a 1,7km running piece in Hungary. Cl< > with an simple laserpointer. an trimmer you can go over 1.5Km and 127mm > lens at rx. I haven't some photos yet.. but when i buy my cam.i can send > you some small modification..at Tp ronja.. ( i have TP ronja from > 20.december.2002 over 350 m with led and right now work fine 2 Tp ronja > over 1.3 Km and 1.1Km (first over laserpointer with 1.1V at rx.. and > second with OPE5687HP infrared led emiter 50mW from roithner -laser > shops- i have at rx max 720mV).. but.. in hard conditions > (rain,fog.haze). infrared Tp ronja have more stability.. i'll send you > some photos..next week (how can i send 2 you??).. i hope.. with my Tx > modification for Infrared Ronja. (it's so simple..).. right now i work 2 > make Tp ronja ful duplex..isn't very hard.. with some pic's 16F84. you > can easily.. but i want ''2 dig' some info about pics'.:((... > you know..i'm old member at your forum, and some small contribution from > me was good for your project. (bpw43..;)..)..so.. if you want 2 make 4 > money.. do it.. > example.. in my country..many electronic sellers have electronic kit's > part.. and attached schematic for that kit's... why can you make some > money if you make available ronja for all guys that even know 2 > solder.. so.. you can sell your ''products'' in your country.. and 2 > keep free your projects. > ex.. if i want 2 make an connection in my contry.. and i know anything > about electronics.. and i find ronja good for my link.. why can't u make > this project available on the market.. and still remain free for some > ''maniac constructors''.?? > man,, people changes, time is in changing.. and.. all memebers must > realize that if you do not send your .sch 2 all.. nobody maked ronja > (AUI and TP.-no matter)... > i understand that you have less money for researches in future > Ronja.But, ronja 're available over the world in internet.. so.. how can > i send you my money for research from romania? > but.. if you want. > i can help you ( and other guys from other countrys-i hope).. to not > work for nothing. > ex.. from our countrys and under your approval can bring Ronja in many > houses. and from benefit.. i can send 2 you.. money.. for every piece > saled.. > i undrstand that some guys broked GPL, and was followed by ''money > hungry''' but.. you can win some money in this way. and project stil > remanin free.;) > anyone can make himself construction or 2 buy an AUI already > manufactured. In my country i can help you.. if you want 2 make some > money.legal.. investors are always the planet. If project and ideea are > good.. that's it. ..it's ok..;) > many people can help in future ronja devices so.. i think.. it's only > way 2 keep this structure.. > think... > you become author and others constructors.. in this way you can obtain > lot of money 2 keep research at high level for future ronja's.. > don't understand me wrong.. but.. it's an fair way 2 maintain future > ronja's device research free.. > --------------------------------- > > ----Original Message----- > From: Clock > Sent: S 28.06.2003 18:47 > To: ????t?p????? ??t??? > Cc: ronja@lists.pointless.net > Subject: Re: [Ronja] Re: ronja page > > > > On Sat, Jun 28, 2003 at 02:38:23AM +0300, ????t?p????? ??t??? > wrote: > > Hello Clock, > > > > I really appreciate your work and i also believe in GPL > projects. Given the > > opportunity many times i also spent a lot of time creating > things for my > > friends, the community or even complete strangers. I also > noted that people > > tend to take advantage of us and that we get rats in return. > > > > I would like to propose to you to continue your work on > improving Ronja, > > instead of building sniffers e.t.c. Ronja can be improved in > many ways such > > But the sniffer is very necessary component for aiming Ronjas. > It will become > a part of the Metropolis design :) > > Cl< > > > as speed, distance coverage, reliability and many more. This > is what > > everyone will pay for... > > thanx for your time > > > > > > the doc > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Clock" > > To: "GPL free-space optical datalink" > > > Sent: Friday, June 27, 2003 4:24 PM > > Subject: Re: [Ronja] Re: ronja page > > > > > > > On Fri, Jun 27, 2003 at 03:13:55PM +0200, oliverthuns wrote: > > > > Clock wrote: > > > > > > > > > RONJA WILL REMAIN GPL > > > > > ===================== > > > > > > > > > > But one tiny hitch will be added: I'll develop > something, count how > > many hours > > > > > of work it took, how many CZK were burned on the > material, state some > > per-hour > > > > > work cost, and publish the resulting costs. Then I'll > wait until > > people sent > > > > > enough sponsor contributions to cover the project. Only > then I'll > > release the > > > > > design under GPL. Before this, the design will remain > unreleased. > > > > > > > > what happen to the peoples money, if it never covers the > projects > > > > overall costs? > > > > > > They will allocate for another project. I'll try to break > down the > > projects > > > into as small parts as possible that are useful for > something. For > > example, > > > there will be basic sniffer, a sniffer with LCD readout and > so on. > > > > > > Cl< > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Ronja mailing list > > > > Ronja@lists.pointless.net > > > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Ronja mailing list > > > Ronja@lists.pointless.net > > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja@lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja@lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From michal.vondracek at mediapolis.cz Mon Jun 23 00:25:48 2003 From: michal.vondracek at mediapolis.cz (Michal Vondracek) Date: Sun Jun 29 15:45:30 2003 Subject: =?iso-8859-2?Q?RE:_=5BRonja=5D_Ud=EClal_jsem_plo=B9n=E9_spoje?= In-Reply-To: <181522547.20030622225950@volny.cz> Message-ID: <000401c33904$dd277970$0aaa60d4@majkl> > Dotaz: > Jsou ty tistaky navrhovane primo do nejakych konkretnich a > sehnatelnych krabicek? Rozmery: RX: 60x90 TX: 60x80 (stejn? montaz do trubky) AUI: 65x135 Pro RX a TX je mo?no pouzit: AH102 nebo AH107 http://eos.ges.cz/peosc.asp?menu=katalog&misto=4&hledej=HX&trihled=HX000 0&stav=0&nazev=KRABI?KY+Z+POC?NOVAN?HO+PLECHU,+typ+AH+++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++&obr=AH100&tpobr=&poznamka=P??strojov?+krabi?ky+st?n?n?+vho dn?+pro+instalaci+VF+p??stroj?.+Materi?l+++pou?it?+na+krabi?ky:+r?me?ek+ -+ocelov?+plech+poc?novan?+tl.+0,4+mm,+v??ka+-+++ocelov?+plech+poc?novan ?+tl.+0,24+mm. Sileny odkaz ... Pro AUI jsem zat?m vhodnou nenasel. Michal From john.dalton at bigfoot.com Mon Jun 30 00:27:33 2003 From: john.dalton at bigfoot.com (John Dalton) Date: Sun Jun 29 15:45:30 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Re: ronja page In-Reply-To: <20030627114122.A8316@beton.cybernet.cz>; from clock@atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz on Fri, Jun 27, 2003 at 19:41:22 +1000 References: <3EFBE98D.5090607@helsinki.fi> <20030627091959.A238@beton.cybernet.cz> <3EFBF605.3020408@helsinki.fi> <20030627114122.A8316@beton.cybernet.cz> Message-ID: <20030629232733.A2561@bing> Hi Clock, > I am going to change the paradigm of Ronja project. Another option might be to go the other way, and open up the development of Ronja completely, instead of the current method of developing things then releasing them. A project might start by posting a list of work to be done, and a 'status' report saying 'no work completed'. If you have the time (and motivation), a task may get completed, and be marked as such in the 'status'. If you don't have the time or motivation, the project sits there uncompleted. If others want the project to be completed, they have at least two options: 1) Pay you (or someone else) money to do the work, or 2) Complete some of the tasks themselves and release their work under the GPL so it can be incomporated into the main project, thus moving the project along. Do you think such a scheme would have a chance of working? Another option might be to publish a design (under the GPL), along with how much it has cost you. You could then ask for donations and keep a running total on your web page until you reach an amount which covers development costs. I guess the main problem would be figuring out an easy method to collect small amounts of money from people around the world. I'm just a little worried that 'pay before I publish' may cause everyone to start asking to payment up front. In this case, the project may reach a stalemate, where nothing is being released, because payments have not been received, but noone is paying because nothing is being released. Thanks for all the work you've done on Ronja to date. I've been trying to help things along by developing parts for a 100Mbit/s system. This effort has been going slowly due to my day job, but I guess I should put what I have done so far onto my website so at least others can see what I have done. Hopefully it will be of use, even if it is very incomplete. I know you have done nearly all the work on Ronja yourself, and it is completely up to you how you release your work. I only offer my opinions in the hope they may be useful. Regards John From xkutale1 at informatics.muni.cz Sun Jun 29 21:09:32 2003 From: xkutale1 at informatics.muni.cz (David Kutalek) Date: Sun Jun 29 19:09:38 2003 Subject: =?iso-8859-2?Q?RE:_=5BRonja=5D_Ud=EClal_jsem_plo=B9n=E9_spoje?= In-Reply-To: <000401c33904$dd277970$0aaa60d4@majkl> Message-ID: > Pro AUI jsem zat?m vhodnou nenasel. Pokud by byl tistak tak o centak kratsi, pekna je tahle: http://www.ezk.cz/krabicky_kovove.htm KK03-10140 Kuty David Kutalek, xkutale1@fi.muni.cz (-: Peace, Flowers, Freedom, Happiness :-) From jkl at jkl.darktech.org Mon Jun 30 23:58:11 2003 From: jkl at jkl.darktech.org (Jan Kleisner) Date: Mon Jun 30 21:59:36 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Re: ronja page References: <3EFBE98D.5090607@helsinki.fi><20030627091959.A238@beton.cybernet.cz><3EFBF605.3020408@helsinki.fi> <20030627114122.A8316@beton.cybernet.cz> Message-ID: <001c01c33f4a$50eaf0d0$020110ac@jklhome1> > I am going to change the paradigm of Ronja project. I realized that GPL for > free in an open-hardware project is a good platform for feeding various > unhonest persons. And commercializing Ronja puts it side by side other > commercial development. > > Commercial development is a piece of shit. Instead of cooperation, people conduct > war against each other. Secrecy is one of their weapons. Their contribution to > public knowledge on the field is minimal. When a bug occurs, what a commercial > manufacturer does is to hide the problem instead of solving it until the > pressure of public opinion forces it otherwise, which is usually late and > causes lots of lost time to the consumers. ... . > There has been just one 1000CZK contribution to Ronja Project by JKLamer from > CZFree. This will be added to the first project that will go out on this new > paradigm. Probably the sniffer. I absolutely understand your opinion. A free-space optical datalink was in my dreams for a long time. As I follow Ronja, it seems obvious to me that your engineering skills are much better than mine. For a very short period I had another ambition to make some big money by manufacturing a the cheap optical datalink based on my non-existent design or your complete one. This immature idea luckily left my mind. My personal Ronja link is almost complete now, electronics has been working since the first approach according to your Ronja guide. You might Call me stupid but I am ready to send further money contributions to your next projects as I am completely satisfied 'consumer'. Please release some guide how to contribute. May be the Ronja web page is good place for that, with some simple yet effective list of contributors / expenses. JKLamer