From clock at atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz Tue Jul 1 00:40:39 2003 From: clock at atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz (Clock) Date: Mon Jun 30 22:40:44 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Re: ronja page In-Reply-To: <001c01c33f4a$50eaf0d0$020110ac@jklhome1>; from jkl@jkl.darktech.org on Mon, Jun 30, 2003 at 10:58:11PM +0200 References: <3EFBE98D.5090607@helsinki.fi><20030627091959.A238@beton.cybernet.cz><3EFBF605.3020408@helsinki.fi> <20030627114122.A8316@beton.cybernet.cz> <001c01c33f4a$50eaf0d0$020110ac@jklhome1> Message-ID: <20030630234039.B541@beton.cybernet.cz> On Mon, Jun 30, 2003 at 10:58:11PM +0200, Jan Kleisner wrote: > > I am going to change the paradigm of Ronja project. I realized that GPL > for > > free in an open-hardware project is a good platform for feeding various > > unhonest persons. And commercializing Ronja puts it side by side other > > commercial development. > > > > Commercial development is a piece of shit. Instead of cooperation, people > conduct > > war against each other. Secrecy is one of their weapons. Their > contribution to > > public knowledge on the field is minimal. When a bug occurs, what a > commercial > > manufacturer does is to hide the problem instead of solving it until the > > pressure of public opinion forces it otherwise, which is usually late and > > causes lots of lost time to the consumers. > ... > . > > There has been just one 1000CZK contribution to Ronja Project by JKLamer > from > > CZFree. This will be added to the first project that will go out on this > new > > paradigm. Probably the sniffer. > > > I absolutely understand your opinion. > A free-space optical datalink was in my dreams for a long time. As I follow > Ronja, it seems obvious to me that your engineering skills are much better > than mine. For a very short period I had another ambition to make some big > money by manufacturing a the cheap optical datalink based on my non-existent > design or your complete one. This immature idea luckily left my mind. > My personal Ronja link is almost complete now, electronics has been working > since the first approach according to your Ronja guide. > You might Call me stupid but I am ready to send further money contributions No :) I thank you for the 1000 CZK you sent me. I have used it for buying optics for testing for the Interpolis transmitter (and this helped me to find such a combination of optics that is really good). > to your next projects as I am completely satisfied 'consumer'. Yes, now I am going to finish the sniffer and then "publish" it together with request for contributions. > Please release some guide how to contribute. May be the Ronja web page is > good place for that, with some simple yet effective list of contributors / > expenses. Yes, it will be on the Ronja page. Cl< > > JKLamer > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja@lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From clock at atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz Tue Jul 1 20:46:28 2003 From: clock at atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz (Clock) Date: Tue Jul 1 18:46:31 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Re: Test Ronji In-Reply-To: <947350906.20030630234948@iol.cz>; from michal.grunt@iol.cz on Mon, Jun 30, 2003 at 11:49:48PM +0200 References: <947350906.20030630234948@iol.cz> Message-ID: <20030701194628.A2798@beton.cybernet.cz> On Mon, Jun 30, 2003 at 11:49:48PM +0200, Michal Grunt wrote: > Zdravim, > nevim si rady jak Ronju otestovat (mam jenom jeden kus - AUI, > RX, TX). Podle mericich bodu a odberu to vypada ze je vse OK, akorat > RSSI je od 0 do 1.2V (vice jsem z toho nedostal - moc jsem se tim > zatim nezabyval). Ano, 1.2V je normalni. > Jak je to tedy s testovanim? Kolik sitovek je potreba na testovani? > Pochopil jsem to tak ze kdyz mam full duplex sitovku tak staci jedna a > musim propojit piny 3-5 a 10-12 na AUI. Ty piny se propoji jenom na ozkouseni toho jestli je spravne nakonfigurovany software na testovani. Viz http://ronja.twibright.com/metropolis/testing.php > > Dale mam jeste jeden zadrhel u soft nastaveni sitovky. > V linuxu se bohuzel moc nevyznam. Hral jsem si s nim uz pred dlouhou > dobou, takze jsem nainstaloval Mandrake 7.2. Zprovoznil sitovou kartu > 3C900B Combo jako eth0. Nastavil IP a masku na 192.168.1.1 resp. > 255.255.255.0. > Dale: > arp -i eth0 -s 192.168.1.2 MAC > route add 192.168.1.2 eth0 > tcpdump -i eth1 (???) proc eth1 kdyz mam v PC jenom jednu? Chyba v navodu. Diky, uz jsem to opravil. Ma tam v tomhle miste bejt tcpdump -i eth0. Cl< > > Muzes mi prosim popsat blize soft nastaveni sitovky (resp. jak > Ronju otestovat)? Jsem z toho trochu zmaten. Original navod mam, ale > taky z toho nejsem zrovna moc moudry. > Dik > > -- > Michal Grunt From clock at atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz Tue Jul 1 21:10:06 2003 From: clock at atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz (Clock) Date: Tue Jul 1 19:10:07 2003 Subject: [Ronja] =?iso-8859-2?q?Poc=EDnovan=FD_plech?= Message-ID: <20030701201006.A2846@beton.cybernet.cz> Nev?te prosimv?s n?kdo kde se se?ene poc?novan? plech? Te? tu bastl?m prototyp snifferu na plech z fazol? Heinz (m?ho obl?ben?ho j?dla ;-) ). Cl< From ladmanj at volny.cz Wed Jul 2 11:44:51 2003 From: ladmanj at volny.cz (Jakub Ladman) Date: Wed Jul 2 09:33:12 2003 Subject: [Ronja] =?iso-8859-2?q?Poc=EDnovan=FD?= plech In-Reply-To: <20030701201006.A2846@beton.cybernet.cz> References: <20030701201006.A2846@beton.cybernet.cz> Message-ID: <200307021044.51856.ladmanj@volny.cz> Ve Feron? v Hole?ovic?ch (ani to nebude? m?t tak daleko jako j?). Ale ?lov?k se n?kdy stref? do tejdne, kdy ho nemaj'. Jakub Ladman Dne ?ter? 01 ?ervenec 2003 20:10 Clock napsal(a): > Nev?te prosimv?s n?kdo kde se se?ene poc?novan? plech? Te? tu bastl?m > prototyp snifferu na plech z fazol? Heinz (m?ho obl?ben?ho j?dla ;-) ). > > Cl< > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja@lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From boza2 at volny.cz Wed Jul 2 12:00:03 2003 From: boza2 at volny.cz (Ondrej Tesar) Date: Wed Jul 2 10:00:23 2003 Subject: =?ISO-8859-2?Q?Re=3A_=5BRonja=5D_Poc=EDnovan=FD_plech?= In-Reply-To: <20030701201006.A2846@beton.cybernet.cz> References: <20030701201006.A2846@beton.cybernet.cz> Message-ID: <60767602.20030702110003@volny.cz> U Rouska v zelezarstvi jsem ted (pred hodinou) videl pas medeneho plechu. Bylo to asi 20cm x 50cm. Cenu nevim. Muzes se prosimte cesky zminit, co to je ten sniffer? Ondra C> Nev?te prosimv?s n?kdo kde se se?ene poc?novan? plech? Te? tu bastl?m prototyp C> snifferu na plech z fazol? Heinz (m?ho obl?ben?ho j?dla ;-) ). C> Cl< C> _______________________________________________ C> Ronja mailing list C> Ronja@lists.pointless.net C> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From farkas at szm.sk Wed Jul 2 09:13:50 2003 From: farkas at szm.sk (Richard Farkas) Date: Wed Jul 2 10:14:58 2003 Subject: =?ISO-8859-2?B?UmU6IFtSb25qYV0gUG9j7W5vdmFu/SBwbGVjaA==?= In-Reply-To: <20030701201006.A2846@beton.cybernet.cz> References: <20030701201006.A2846@beton.cybernet.cz> Message-ID: <71171613.20030702081350@szm.sk> C> Nev?te prosimv?s n?kdo kde se se?ene poc?novan? plech? Te? tu bastl?m prototyp C> snifferu na plech z fazol? Heinz (m?ho obl?ben?ho j?dla ;-) ). co je to ten sniffer? -- S pozdravom, Richard Farkas mailto:farkas@szm.sk From clock at atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz Wed Jul 2 13:45:52 2003 From: clock at atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz (Clock) Date: Wed Jul 2 11:45:54 2003 Subject: =?iso-8859-2?Q?=5BRonja=5D_Poc=EDnovan=FD_plech?= In-Reply-To: <71171613.20030702081350@szm.sk>; from farkas@szm.sk on Wed, Jul 02, 2003 at 08:13:50AM +0200 References: <20030701201006.A2846@beton.cybernet.cz> <71171613.20030702081350@szm.sk> Message-ID: <20030702124552.A17313@beton.cybernet.cz> On Wed, Jul 02, 2003 at 08:13:50AM +0200, Richard Farkas wrote: > C> Nev?te prosimv?s n?kdo kde se se?ene poc?novan? plech? Te? tu bastl?m prototyp > C> snifferu na plech z fazol? Heinz (m?ho obl?ben?ho j?dla ;-) ). > > co je to ten sniffer? To je nov? (p??davn?) za??zen? pro Ronju co vyv?j?m a m? za ?kol umo?nit mnohem citliv?j?? zam??ov?n? Ronji (tzn. ?e se sign?l bude moct zjistit p?i v?t?? odchylce od osy) a sou?asn? zam??ov?n? vys?la?e za dne (dote? se mus? zam??ovat pouze v noci na odrazku). Cl< > > -- > S pozdravom, > Richard Farkas mailto:farkas@szm.sk > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja@lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From clock at twibright.com Wed Jul 2 14:19:55 2003 From: clock at twibright.com (Clock) Date: Wed Jul 2 12:19:58 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Photo gallery Message-ID: <20030702131955.A20437@beton.cybernet.cz> Hello all I would like to make a photo gallery of Ronja which * has thumbnail * has optional image notes * supports directory structure * supports image id's that can be used for inclusin in the HTML (I would like to convert all images within the guide to references to this gallery, so they would be hidden under the thumbnails and user wouldn't have to wait long time for loading the page with many relatively large images) Can anyone please recommend me some software for making such a gallery? Cl< From clock at twibright.com Wed Jul 2 14:21:47 2003 From: clock at twibright.com (Clock) Date: Wed Jul 2 12:21:49 2003 Subject: =?iso-8859-2?Q?=5BRonja=5D_Poc=EDnovan=FD_plech?= In-Reply-To: <200307021044.51856.ladmanj@volny.cz>; from ladmanj@volny.cz on Wed, Jul 02, 2003 at 10:44:51AM +0200 References: <20030701201006.A2846@beton.cybernet.cz> <200307021044.51856.ladmanj@volny.cz> Message-ID: <20030702132147.B20437@beton.cybernet.cz> On Wed, Jul 02, 2003 at 10:44:51AM +0200, Jakub Ladman wrote: > Ve Feron? v Hole?ovic?ch (ani to nebude? m?t tak daleko jako j?). > Ale ?lov?k se n?kdy stref? do tejdne, kdy ho nemaj'. > Jakub Ladman Tak jsem tam volal (Ferona Malesice). Dozvedel jsem se, ze Ferona pocinovany zelezny plech nevede a jestli ho vedla tak to bylo kdysi a byla to Ferona Olomouc. Nevite o nejakym jinym zdroji pocinovanyho plechu v Praze? (Staci maly mnozstvi.) Cl< > > Dne ?ter? 01 ?ervenec 2003 20:10 Clock napsal(a): > > Nev?te prosimv?s n?kdo kde se se?ene poc?novan? plech? Te? tu bastl?m > > prototyp snifferu na plech z fazol? Heinz (m?ho obl?ben?ho j?dla ;-) ). > > > > Cl< > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ronja mailing list > > Ronja@lists.pointless.net > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja@lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From ronja at hansmi.ch Wed Jul 2 18:58:27 2003 From: ronja at hansmi.ch (Michael Hanselmann) Date: Wed Jul 2 16:58:04 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Photo gallery In-Reply-To: <20030702131955.A20437@beton.cybernet.cz> References: <20030702131955.A20437@beton.cybernet.cz> Message-ID: <20030702155827.GA4597@hansmi.ch> Hello Clock > Can anyone please recommend me some software for making such a gallery? There's a small programm called "mkgallery", available from http://mkgallery.sourceforge.net/ (under Gentoo Linux: emerge mkgallery) Greets Michael -- Viele Gruesse, Michael [http://www.hansmi.ch] [fli4l-user-id #0004] BOFH Excuse #5: static from plastic slide rules From jkl at jkl.darktech.org Wed Jul 2 21:02:41 2003 From: jkl at jkl.darktech.org (Jan Kleisner) Date: Wed Jul 2 19:04:15 2003 Subject: =?iso-8859-2?Q?Re:_=5BRonja=5D_Poc=EDnovan=FD_plech?= References: <20030701201006.A2846@beton.cybernet.cz><200307021044.51856.ladmanj@volny.cz> <20030702132147.B20437@beton.cybernet.cz> Message-ID: <003e01c340c4$212de750$020110ac@jklhome1> >Nevite o nejakym jinym zdroji pocinovanyho plechu v Praze? (Staci maly >mnozstvi.) >Cl< Musi to byt nutne plech? Dostal sem v GESu hotove krabicky z pocinovaneho plechu. Rozmerem na RX/TX Ronju, ale vedou i jine. Paji se do nich dobre a ceny nejsou zvlast prestrelene. From ladmanj at volny.cz Thu Jul 3 11:55:27 2003 From: ladmanj at volny.cz (Jakub Ladman) Date: Thu Jul 3 09:43:27 2003 Subject: [Ronja] =?iso-8859-2?q?Poc=EDnovan=FD?= plech In-Reply-To: <20030702132147.B20437@beton.cybernet.cz> References: <20030701201006.A2846@beton.cybernet.cz> <200307021044.51856.ladmanj@volny.cz> <20030702132147.B20437@beton.cybernet.cz> Message-ID: <200307031055.27348.ladmanj@volny.cz> > Tak jsem tam volal (Ferona Malesice). Dozvedel jsem se, ze Ferona > pocinovany zelezny plech nevede a jestli ho vedla tak to bylo kdysi a byla > to Ferona Olomouc. Zvlastne, ja ho asi pred dvema lety kupoval ve F. v Holesovicich. Byla to tabule cca. 2x1 m a stala asi tri stovky. Jakub From clock at twibright.com Thu Jul 3 20:26:14 2003 From: clock at twibright.com (Clock) Date: Thu Jul 3 18:26:21 2003 Subject: =?iso-8859-2?Q?=5BRonja=5D_Poc=EDnovan=FD_plech?= In-Reply-To: <200307031055.27348.ladmanj@volny.cz>; from ladmanj@volny.cz on Thu, Jul 03, 2003 at 10:55:27AM +0200 References: <20030701201006.A2846@beton.cybernet.cz> <200307021044.51856.ladmanj@volny.cz> <20030702132147.B20437@beton.cybernet.cz> <200307031055.27348.ladmanj@volny.cz> Message-ID: <20030703192614.A13705@beton.cybernet.cz> On Thu, Jul 03, 2003 at 10:55:27AM +0200, Jakub Ladman wrote: > > Tak jsem tam volal (Ferona Malesice). Dozvedel jsem se, ze Ferona > > pocinovany zelezny plech nevede a jestli ho vedla tak to bylo kdysi a byla > > to Ferona Olomouc. > Zvlastne, ja ho asi pred dvema lety kupoval ve F. v Holesovicich. Byla to > tabule cca. 2x1 m a stala asi tri stovky. Nemohl to byt pozinkovany plech nebo nepocinovany medeny plech? Cl< > Jakub > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja@lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From boza2 at volny.cz Fri Jul 4 09:48:40 2003 From: boza2 at volny.cz (Ondrej Tesar) Date: Fri Jul 4 07:49:02 2003 Subject: =?ISO-8859-2?Q?Re=5B2=5D=3A_=5BRonja=5D_Poc=EDnovan=FD_plech?= In-Reply-To: <20030702132147.B20437@beton.cybernet.cz> References: <20030701201006.A2846@beton.cybernet.cz> <200307021044.51856.ladmanj@volny.cz> <20030702132147.B20437@beton.cybernet.cz> Message-ID: <721924685.20030704084840@volny.cz> A nemuzes to prosim rovnou nadesignovat do tech krabicek z GM? Vypada to, ze budou dlouhodobe k dostani, stoji 25Kc, paji se do nich uplne bajecne, vypadaji hezky, co vic si prat? Proc se s tim vyrabet? Pokud nevyhovuji rozmery, tak se daji treba dve spajet k sobe. Jmenuji se U-AH-101 az U-AH-103. Krabicky z GESu jsou drazsi (4x). Velmi bych se za to primlouval. Ondra C> On Wed, Jul 02, 2003 at 10:44:51AM +0200, Jakub Ladman wrote: >> Ve Feron? v Hole?ovic?ch (ani to nebude? m?t tak daleko jako j?). >> Ale ?lov?k se n?kdy stref? do tejdne, kdy ho nemaj'. >> Jakub Ladman C> Tak jsem tam volal (Ferona Malesice). Dozvedel jsem se, ze Ferona pocinovany C> zelezny plech nevede a jestli ho vedla tak to bylo kdysi a byla to Ferona C> Olomouc. C> Nevite o nejakym jinym zdroji pocinovanyho plechu v Praze? (Staci maly C> mnozstvi.) C> Cl< >> >> Dne ?ter? 01 ?ervenec 2003 20:10 Clock napsal(a): >> > Nev?te prosimv?s n?kdo kde se se?ene poc?novan? plech? Te? tu bastl?m >> > prototyp snifferu na plech z fazol? Heinz (m?ho obl?ben?ho j?dla ;-) ). >> > >> > Cl< >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Ronja mailing list >> > Ronja@lists.pointless.net >> > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Ronja mailing list >> Ronja@lists.pointless.net >> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja C> _______________________________________________ C> Ronja mailing list C> Ronja@lists.pointless.net C> http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From farkas at szm.sk Fri Jul 4 13:58:31 2003 From: farkas at szm.sk (Richard Farkas) Date: Fri Jul 4 12:02:25 2003 Subject: =?ISO-8859-2?B?UmVbM106IFtSb25qYV0gUG9j7W5vdmFu/SBwbGVjaA==?= In-Reply-To: <721924685.20030704084840@volny.cz> References: <20030701201006.A2846@beton.cybernet.cz> <200307021044.51856.ladmanj@volny.cz> <20030702132147.B20437@beton.cybernet.cz> <721924685.20030704084840@volny.cz> Message-ID: <926398208.20030704125831@szm.sk> Dobry den, Friday, July 04, 2003, 8:48:40 AM, ste napisali: OT> A nemuzes to prosim rovnou nadesignovat do tech krabicek z GM? OT> Vypada to, ze budou dlouhodobe k dostani, stoji 25Kc, paji se do nich OT> uplne bajecne, vypadaji hezky, co vic si prat? Proc se s tim vyrabet? OT> Pokud nevyhovuji rozmery, tak se daji treba dve spajet k sobe. OT> Jmenuji se U-AH-101 az U-AH-103. Krabicky z GESu jsou drazsi (4x). OT> Velmi bych se za to primlouval. tiez si myslim, ze je lepsie pouzit od zaciatku nieco co sa da lahko dostat, ja som sa tu na Slovensku snazil dost dlho a pocinovany plech som nezohnal (myslim plech ako plech, nie vyrezky z konzerv) -- S pozdravom, Richard Farkas mailto:farkas@szm.sk From michal.grunt at iol.cz Sat Jul 5 17:48:34 2003 From: michal.grunt at iol.cz (Michal Grunt) Date: Sat Jul 5 15:48:35 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Re[2]: Test Ronji In-Reply-To: <20030701194628.A2798@beton.cybernet.cz> References: <947350906.20030630234948@iol.cz> <20030701194628.A2798@beton.cybernet.cz> Message-ID: <808963500.20030705164834@iol.cz> Prosim vas, muze mi nekdo napsat jak otestovat jeden kus ronji na PC? Podle originalniho navodu se nedari... Mam sitovky 3C905B (neplest s 509) a 3C900B - obe PCI. Muzu sehnat jeste 3C509 a Dlink DE200 CAT - obe ISA. -- Michal Grunt From clock at twibright.com Sat Jul 5 20:52:43 2003 From: clock at twibright.com (Clock) Date: Sat Jul 5 18:52:55 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Re[2]: Test Ronji In-Reply-To: <808963500.20030705164834@iol.cz>; from michal.grunt@iol.cz on Sat, Jul 05, 2003 at 04:48:34PM +0200 References: <947350906.20030630234948@iol.cz> <20030701194628.A2798@beton.cybernet.cz> <808963500.20030705164834@iol.cz> Message-ID: <20030705195243.A23223@beton.cybernet.cz> On Sat, Jul 05, 2003 at 04:48:34PM +0200, Michal Grunt wrote: > Prosim vas, muze mi nekdo napsat jak otestovat jeden kus ronji na PC? > Podle originalniho navodu se nedari... Co vam nejde? Cl< From highlander_____ at hotmail.com Sat Jul 5 21:03:55 2003 From: highlander_____ at hotmail.com (Highlander) Date: Sat Jul 5 19:03:15 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Re[2]: Test Ronji References: <947350906.20030630234948@iol.cz><20030701194628.A2798@beton.cybernet.cz> <808963500.20030705164834@iol.cz> Message-ID: A dok?zes je prepnout do full duplexu na AUI ? Pokud ano tak: Jak jsem testoval j? ... 1. oba kompy propojit cross kabelem na AUI a zjistit jestli to funguje. 2. ke kazd?mu kompu pripojit AUI interface a tyto dve interface spojit temi koax kabely Rx na Tx a Tx na Rx. Nezapomenout na to, ze na st?nen? RX vstupu je nap?jec? napet?. Takze se to st?nen? na druh? strane nezapoj?. 3. pokud komunikace funguje bezhybne jen pres tyto AUI interface tak se pripoj? vys?lac a prij?mac ke kazd?mu z interfacu a testuje se komunikace vzduchem. Highlander. ----- Original Message ----- From: Michal Grunt To: Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2003 4:48 PM Subject: [Ronja] Re[2]: Test Ronji > Prosim vas, muze mi nekdo napsat jak otestovat jeden kus ronji na PC? > Podle originalniho navodu se nedari... > Mam sitovky 3C905B (neplest s 509) a 3C900B - obe PCI. Muzu sehnat > jeste 3C509 a Dlink DE200 CAT - obe ISA. > > -- > Michal Grunt > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja@lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > From boza2 at volny.cz Mon Jul 7 10:06:24 2003 From: boza2 at volny.cz (Ondrej Tesar) Date: Mon Jul 7 08:06:34 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Re[2]: Test Ronji In-Reply-To: <808963500.20030705164834@iol.cz> References: <947350906.20030630234948@iol.cz> <20030701194628.A2798@beton.cybernet.cz> <808963500.20030705164834@iol.cz> Message-ID: <1311207383.20030707090624@volny.cz> Pokud jsi z Prahy, nebo pres ni pojedes, tak by ses mohl stavit. Mam tady jeden jednoucelovy PC specialne na testovani Ronjy. To co potrebujes ty, je tady reseno jako jedna fullduplexni sitova karta, ktera ma nejak v Linuxu pridelene jedne MAC adrese 2 IP adresy a pinga si z jedne na druhou. Tim se otestuje, jestli je jedna Ronja bezchybne pruchozi z vysilace do prijimace. Ondra MG> Prosim vas, muze mi nekdo napsat jak otestovat jeden kus ronji na PC? MG> Podle originalniho navodu se nedari... MG> Mam sitovky 3C905B (neplest s 509) a 3C900B - obe PCI. Muzu sehnat MG> jeste 3C509 a Dlink DE200 CAT - obe ISA. From clock at twibright.com Mon Jul 7 11:19:38 2003 From: clock at twibright.com (Clock) Date: Mon Jul 7 09:19:46 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Re[2]: Test Ronji In-Reply-To: <1311207383.20030707090624@volny.cz>; from boza2@volny.cz on Mon, Jul 07, 2003 at 09:06:24AM +0200 References: <947350906.20030630234948@iol.cz> <20030701194628.A2798@beton.cybernet.cz> <808963500.20030705164834@iol.cz> <1311207383.20030707090624@volny.cz> Message-ID: <20030707101938.A247@beton.cybernet.cz> On Mon, Jul 07, 2003 at 09:06:24AM +0200, Ondrej Tesar wrote: > Pokud jsi z Prahy, nebo pres ni pojedes, tak by ses mohl stavit. > Mam tady jeden jednoucelovy PC specialne na testovani Ronjy. To co > potrebujes ty, je tady reseno jako jedna fullduplexni sitova karta, > ktera ma nejak v Linuxu pridelene jedne MAC adrese 2 IP adresy a pinga > si z jedne na druhou. Tim se otestuje, jestli je jedna Ronja bezchybne > pruchozi z vysilace do prijimace. Na to neni potreba jednoucelove PC. Staci sitovka 3c509 (ISA), 3c590 nebo 3c900 (PCI) a prislusna utilitka na dosove bootovaci diskete (3c5x9cfg.exe, 3c59xcfg.exe nebo 3c90xcfg.exe) a pusti se, nastavi se v Config NIC sitovce AUI (external/DIX nebo jak se to tam menuje), pak se udela test setup -> group 2 -> enable loopback test a pak se pusti test. Rekne to "Check that you have attached plug to the NIC", to se odklepna a pak se budou rozsvecet svetylka na AUI a ten program napise, jestli to proslo nebo ne. Ronja musi bejt samozrejme nakonfigurovana aby si ten signal posilala zpatky (bud zkratovana svorkovnice nebo zrcadlo odrazejici z vysilace do prijimace nebo dame vysilac a prijimac proti sobe). Cl< > > Ondra > > > MG> Prosim vas, muze mi nekdo napsat jak otestovat jeden kus ronji na PC? > MG> Podle originalniho navodu se nedari... > MG> Mam sitovky 3C905B (neplest s 509) a 3C900B - obe PCI. Muzu sehnat > MG> jeste 3C509 a Dlink DE200 CAT - obe ISA. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja@lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From clock at twibright.com Wed Jul 9 03:05:08 2003 From: clock at twibright.com (Clock) Date: Tue Jul 8 23:05:24 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Photo gallery and more sections Message-ID: <20030709020508.A14637@beton.cybernet.cz> I have made a photo gallery for ronja http://ronja.twibright.com, link "Photo Gallery" There is also a toplevel view of million thumbnails from images.twibright.com I have also added a section about sponsoring. I am planning to write a section "Tour" which will tour the user through the history of the project and current installations all over the world. Cl< From clock at twibright.com Wed Jul 9 03:06:00 2003 From: clock at twibright.com (Clock) Date: Tue Jul 8 23:06:06 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Images in the Guide Message-ID: <20030709020600.A14647@beton.cybernet.cz> I have set up a PHP mechanism to easily include gallery links into the text. See for example at http://ronja.twibright.com/modules.php I hope more images in the text will be added soon. Cl< From klapek at kki.net.pl Wed Jul 9 11:12:09 2003 From: klapek at kki.net.pl (Tomasz Koprowski) Date: Wed Jul 9 09:12:29 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Photo gallery and more sections In-Reply-To: <20030709020508.A14637@beton.cybernet.cz> Message-ID: <3F0BEA79.12967.FA08C@localhost> Hi, > I have also added a section about sponsoring. The pig is cute ;-) http://ronja.twibright.com/sponsors.php : s/manufacturere/manufacturer/ I fully agree with your vision of further Ronja development. It would be nice if you added some sort of on-line donation method, like paypal, allpay or whatever. Greets, Tomek Koprowski From merlins_son at gmx.de Wed Jul 9 15:11:07 2003 From: merlins_son at gmx.de (merlins_son) Date: Wed Jul 9 13:27:29 2003 Subject: [Ronja] legal notes/ronja in Germany/serveral genaral questions ? Message-ID: <03070914110700.17960@etna> Hi, i was searching for a soultion to connect two lans "over the air" an finally found Ronja. Although i'm not an "electrician", i find the project very interessting an maybe with a little help from some friends i will be able to build one. The only reason i did not start right now is, that i don't no if it is legal to use such a LaserLan over public an private grounds in germany. Do you know anybody who successful build a Ronja in germany and uses it ? Serveral other questions: You user laser diodes with 625nm wavelength, is it possible to switch to a higher wavelength to get into the invisible range ? Could you see whole red the beam at night, or only the point where it hits the receiver ? Because of the big lens, could the beam still damage the eyes when looking staright into it, from several meters away ? Thanks in advanced for any answers, With kind regards from germany, A. Waldmann PS: Keep on the good work. PPS: sorry for bad english ;-) From clock at twibright.com Wed Jul 9 17:58:29 2003 From: clock at twibright.com (Clock) Date: Wed Jul 9 13:58:31 2003 Subject: [Ronja] legal notes/ronja in Germany/serveral genaral questions ? In-Reply-To: <03070914110700.17960@etna>; from merlins_son@gmx.de on Wed, Jul 09, 2003 at 02:11:07PM +0200 References: <03070914110700.17960@etna> Message-ID: <20030709165829.A5972@beton.cybernet.cz> On Wed, Jul 09, 2003 at 02:11:07PM +0200, merlins_son wrote: > Hi, > i was searching for a soultion to connect two lans "over the air" an finally > found Ronja. > > Although i'm not an "electrician", i find the project very interessting an > maybe with a little help from some friends i will be able to build one. > The only reason i did not start right now is, that i don't no if it is legal > to use such a LaserLan over public an private grounds in germany. If you are concerned about laser, Ronja uses no laser. > > Do you know anybody who successful build a Ronja in germany and uses it ? > > Serveral other questions: > > You user laser diodes with 625nm wavelength, is it possible to switch to a Ronja uses still no laser. > higher wavelength to get into the invisible range ? > Could you see whole red the beam at night, or only the point where it hits > the receiver ? Only at the point of receiver. The beam can be seen only from certain angle at strong fog. > Because of the big lens, could the beam still damage the eyes when looking > staright into it, from several meters away ? No. Complies to Czech state regulations for eye safety, at any distance from the output aperture. Cl< > > > Thanks in advanced for any answers, > With kind regards from germany, > > A. Waldmann > > PS: Keep on the good work. > PPS: sorry for bad english ;-) > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja@lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From merlins_son at gmx.de Wed Jul 9 16:50:11 2003 From: merlins_son at gmx.de (merlins_son) Date: Wed Jul 9 15:06:26 2003 Subject: [Ronja] legal notes/ronja in Germany/serveral genaral questions ? In-Reply-To: <20030709165829.A5972@beton.cybernet.cz> References: <03070914110700.17960@etna> <20030709165829.A5972@beton.cybernet.cz> Message-ID: <03070915501101.17960@etna> Am Mittwoch 09 Juli 2003 16:58 schrieben Sie: > On Wed, Jul 09, 2003 at 02:11:07PM +0200, merlins_son wrote: <--snip--> > Ronja uses still no laser. my fault, seems i got you wrong. Ok, then the emitters you use are very bright LEDs ? I was searching for "HPWT-BD00-F4000" but could not find any german shop selling this...and because I read something about 625 wavelength, so i thought you were using laser-diodes... > > Could you see whole red the beam at night, or only the point where it > > hits the receiver ? > > Only at the point of receiver. The beam can be seen only from certain angle > at strong fog. > > > Because of the big lens, could the beam still damage the eyes when > > looking staright into it, from several meters away ? > > No. Complies to Czech state regulations for eye safety, at any distance > from the output aperture. Cause it is not a laser this now makes sense. Thanks for your answer, Kind regards, A. Waldmann > > Cl< < snip -> From discover at fly.srk.fer.hr Wed Jul 9 17:12:22 2003 From: discover at fly.srk.fer.hr (Silvije) Date: Wed Jul 9 15:12:26 2003 Subject: [Ronja] legal notes/ronja in Germany/serveral genaral questions ? In-Reply-To: <03070915501101.17960@etna> References: <03070914110700.17960@etna> <20030709165829.A5972@beton.cybernet.cz> <03070915501101.17960@etna> Message-ID: > I was searching for "HPWT-BD00-F4000" but could not find > any german shop selling this...and because I read something about 625 > wavelength, so i thought you were using laser-diodes... In Germany you can buy HPWTs at Sander electronic: www.sander-electronic.de Bye, Silvije www.silvije.tk From vojta at sinus.cz Wed Jul 9 18:45:31 2003 From: vojta at sinus.cz (=?iso-8859-2?q?Vojt=ECch=20Pithart?=) Date: Wed Jul 9 17:12:08 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Photo gallery and more sections In-Reply-To: <20030709020508.A14637@beton.cybernet.cz> References: <20030709020508.A14637@beton.cybernet.cz> Message-ID: <200307091745.31102.vojta@sinus.cz> Dear clock, this is exactly what i am thinking about since near past. The ronja web should have simple database, where existing ronja owners could insert information like: - date(year) of construction, ronja model - length of link - place where ronja is installed (eg. Name of country/county, or rather longitude&latitude) - lense diameters - used NICs - ability to invite new ronja users to get them 'to the roof' and show working ronja for them - construction specialities - additional URL If you want, i can participate on this project; create MySQL database structure and PHP interface integrable into your web. Vojta Lhota > I am planning to write a section "Tour" which will tour the > user through the history of the project and current installations > all over the world. > Cl< From clock at twibright.com Wed Jul 9 22:28:25 2003 From: clock at twibright.com (Clock) Date: Wed Jul 9 20:28:41 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Photo gallery and more sections In-Reply-To: <200307091745.31102.vojta@sinus.cz>; from vojta@sinus.cz on Wed, Jul 09, 2003 at 05:45:31PM +0200 References: <20030709020508.A14637@beton.cybernet.cz> <200307091745.31102.vojta@sinus.cz> Message-ID: <20030709212825.D7721@beton.cybernet.cz> Dobry den Dekuju za nabidku. Jak by takovy PHP / MySQL system vypadal? Bezi to na stroji kde PHP je a pouzivam ho a MySQL taky, ale nikdy jsem ho nepouzival. Cl< On Wed, Jul 09, 2003 at 05:45:31PM +0200, Vojt?ch Pithart wrote: > Dear clock, > this is exactly what i am thinking about since near past. The ronja web > should have simple database, where existing ronja owners could insert > information like: > - date(year) of construction, ronja model > - length of link > - place where ronja is installed (eg. Name of country/county, or rather > longitude&latitude) > - lense diameters > - used NICs > - ability to invite new ronja users to get them 'to the roof' and show working > ronja for them > - construction specialities > - additional URL > > If you want, i can participate on this project; create MySQL database > structure and PHP interface integrable into your web. > > Vojta Lhota > > > > I am planning to write a section "Tour" which will tour the > > user through the history of the project and current installations > > all over the world. > > Cl< > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja@lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From jkl at jkl.darktech.org Wed Jul 9 23:52:14 2003 From: jkl at jkl.darktech.org (JKLamer) Date: Wed Jul 9 21:54:12 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Photo gallery and more sections References: <20030709020508.A14637@beton.cybernet.cz><200307091745.31102.vojta@sinus.cz> <20030709212825.D7721@beton.cybernet.cz> Message-ID: <005301c3465b$fa1e16b0$020110ac@jklhome1> Moc pekny by pak mohl byt jakysi ronja metr. Tedy pocitadlo co by na webu z dane databaze ukazovalo pocet metru, kilometru, obvodu zeme ci ceho, kolik uz dohromady instalace ronji preklenuly. Rad bych do nej prispel s pouze 200m dlouhym spojem, ktery za nedlouho zprovoznim. Kazdopadne by to byla dobra motivace abych postavil dalsi spoje a dotocil pocitadlo alespon do vzdalenosti zeme-mesic :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Clock" To: "GPL free-space optical datalink" Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 9:28 PM Subject: Re: [Ronja] Photo gallery and more sections Dobry den Dekuju za nabidku. Jak by takovy PHP / MySQL system vypadal? Bezi to na stroji kde PHP je a pouzivam ho a MySQL taky, ale nikdy jsem ho nepouzival. Cl< On Wed, Jul 09, 2003 at 05:45:31PM +0200, Vojt?ch Pithart wrote: > Dear clock, > this is exactly what i am thinking about since near past. The ronja web > should have simple database, where existing ronja owners could insert > information like: > - date(year) of construction, ronja model > - length of link > - place where ronja is installed (eg. Name of country/county, or rather > longitude&latitude) > - lense diameters > - used NICs > - ability to invite new ronja users to get them 'to the roof' and show working > ronja for them > - construction specialities > - additional URL > > If you want, i can participate on this project; create MySQL database > structure and PHP interface integrable into your web. > > Vojta Lhota > > > > I am planning to write a section "Tour" which will tour the > > user through the history of the project and current installations > > all over the world. > > Cl< > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja@lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja _______________________________________________ Ronja mailing list Ronja@lists.pointless.net http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From p.kral at cleverlance.com Wed Jul 9 16:06:00 2003 From: p.kral at cleverlance.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Pavel_Kr=E1l?=) Date: Fri Jul 11 07:23:24 2003 Subject: [Ronja] legal notes/ronja in Germany/serveral genaral questions ? References: <03070914110700.17960@etna> Message-ID: <001f01c3461a$d81d9fe0$2901a8c0@ibmxx> >The only reason i did not start right now is, that i don't no if it is legal >to use such a LaserLan over public an private grounds in germany. Ronja is not a laser based datalink and it is not suitable for laser based link because of modulation >You user laser diodes with 625nm wavelength, is it possible to switch to a >higher wavelength to get into the invisible range ? it uses high output LED, hovewer if you are talking about invisible range you may be interested in infrared wave length, because of its athmosphere transmittance >Could you see whole red the beam at night, or only the point where it hits >the receiver ? do you homework and try to experiment with lantern and dust ... >Because of the big lens, could the beam still damage the eyes when looking >staright into it, from several meters away ? :-) pk From public at hansmi.ch Wed Jul 9 18:46:31 2003 From: public at hansmi.ch (Hanselmann Michael) Date: Fri Jul 11 07:23:25 2003 Subject: [Ronja] legal notes/ronja in Germany/serveral genaral questions ? In-Reply-To: <03070914110700.17960@etna> References: <03070914110700.17960@etna> Message-ID: <3F0C38D7.7080903@hansmi.ch> Hello > Do you know anybody who successful build a Ronja in germany and uses it ? I'm from Switzerland currently building my first Ronja-link with a collegue. However, it's taking much time. :) If you've questinons where you can get the material, you can contact me on German, because my native language is (swiss-)german. (I'll be on holidays for the next 2 weeks, but'll answer after) Greets Michael, also with bad english From zapadlo at melzer.cz Fri Jul 11 13:21:42 2003 From: zapadlo at melzer.cz (Petr Zapadlo) Date: Fri Jul 11 11:21:47 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Kvalita vietnamskych cocek Message-ID: <200307111221.42712.zapadlo@melzer.cz> Dobry den popisu vam situaci co se mi stalo a chtel bych znat Vas nazor. Stavim dve sady ronji (bude za roh). Delky 300m a 1300m. Zamereni kratke sady je sranda a slo to jako po dratku. Zamereni delsi sady: Jedna strana, najit ohnisko, naladit na odrazku, kolega nasteluje prijimac a hlasi napeti, jde to perfektne, provozni napeti, utahnout, hotovo za 1/2 hodiny. Druha strana postup uplne stejny, vysilac uz na oko zari mene, nedari se najit signal na RSSI. Zkusil jsem nekolikrat najit ohnisko, zamerit, porad dokola a nic. Prehodim moduly, a ted pozor, moduly na to nemaji zadny vliv, prvni smer chodi skvele, druhy vubec. Vezmu vysilacove tubusy a ejhle, smer s prvnim tubusem se opet chyta skvele a rychle, smer s druhym tubusem opet nic. Vytahnu tedy tubus uz z te kratsi nastelovane ronji a vymenim je. A ejhle uz najdu signal napoprve i subjektivne okem se zvetsila svitivost. I kdyz neni to uplne presne to co ten dorby tubus, ale je to vyrazne lepsi. Z toho mi vyplyva ze ta cocka v tom inkrinovanem tubusu neni moc ok (je koupena v Clockove Ronja shopu, reklamovat ji nebudu :). I kdyz na vizulani pohled se mi nic divneho na ni nezda. Stalo se Vam to nekomu taky? Je to vubec mozne? PS Kam zmizel Ronja shop? -- Petr "Zapik" Zapadlo Ing. Petr Zapadlo vedouc? odd?len? syst?mov? podpory Melzer, spol. s r.o. Doln? 71, 796 01 Prost?jov tel: 582 330 301 fax: 582 330 302 mailto: zapadlo@melzer.cz http://www.melzer.cz From ales.travnik at volja.net Fri Jul 11 17:38:50 2003 From: ales.travnik at volja.net (Ales Travnik) Date: Fri Jul 11 15:41:18 2003 Subject: [Ronja] 10Mb/s or 100Mb/s, LASER or LED Message-ID: <3F0ECBFA.3000904@volja.net> I'm sorry but my english is not so goot! I was desperatly searching for some plans (schemes) for LAER link and i found Ronja's page. I was reading from mailing list for an hour and i just learnd something about your project, so i think you can help me! My plans are to build wireless link from my computer to my friend's computer. It's like this: We are 50m apart (and can see each other) We want the link to be as fast as possible Not too expensive (I don't know how much do you invest) less than 100$ And link must work on bright day with powerful sun shining I have some expert help just for building all together but i don't have any plans! Can link work without computer? (On one side plugged in working computer on the other side plugged into ADSL router) Can someone be so nice and answer my message or can someone send plans (schemes) to my mail! Thank you By ales My mail: ales.travnik@volja.net From klapek at kki.net.pl Fri Jul 11 18:20:35 2003 From: klapek at kki.net.pl (Tomasz Koprowski) Date: Fri Jul 11 16:20:50 2003 Subject: [Ronja] 10Mb/s or 100Mb/s, LASER or LED In-Reply-To: <3F0ECBFA.3000904@volja.net> Message-ID: <3F0EF1E3.21542.EFF230@localhost> Hi, Seems like I'm first, so I'll try to answer your questions, however take into consideration that I'm not the designer of Ronja. > My plans are to build wireless link from my computer to my friend's > computer. > It's like this: > We are 50m apart (and can see each other) It can be too CLOSE for Ronja ;-) you will probably get away with some very small optics, poor manufacture and misaligning and it will still work. > We want the link to be as fast as possible Ronja offers 10Mbps/full-duplex. > Not too expensive (I don't know how much do you invest) less than 100$ Material and parts for Ronja are cheap. > And link must work on bright day with powerful sun shining The sun's not a problem, dense fog can be. > I have some expert help just for building all together but i don't have > any plans! http://ronja.twibright.com - there's a building guide and all the plans/schemes you need. > Can link work without computer? (On one side plugged in working computer > on the other side plugged into ADSL router) It requires and AUI port, forced to full-duplex operation so I doubt it would work without a computer. Greets, Tomek Koprowski From boza2 at volny.cz Sun Jul 13 12:33:32 2003 From: boza2 at volny.cz (Ondrej Tesar) Date: Mon Jul 14 13:43:05 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Kvalita vietnamskych cocek In-Reply-To: <200307111221.42712.zapadlo@melzer.cz> References: <200307111221.42712.zapadlo@melzer.cz> Message-ID: <297147466.20030713113332@volny.cz> Zdravim, mam presne tu samou zkusenost. Instaloval jsem v Jicine jeden spoj na 650m. Momentalne nejede, protoze: Obe strany jsme pridelali, cervenym vysilacem jsme nastrelili odrazku na protejsi strane (chce to poradne velkou, jedena trojuhelnickova odrazka fakt nestaci). Vymenili moduly mezi sebou (Rx,Tx) i druhy tubus nastrelili na odrazku. (Prijde mi, ze je lepsi to 2x udelat na odrazku, nez jednou na odrazku a jednou podle V-metru na RSSI). To same na protejsi strane. A svete div se, jela jen pulka spoje. Tak jsme na jedne strane prohodili moduly v tubusech. A zadna zmena. Tak jsme prohodili moduly v tubusech na protejsi strane. A svete div se, jela druha pulka spoje! Tak jsem jim tam tedka posilal novej tubus s dalsi vietnamskou lupou. Tak treba se trefim do dobre lupy tentokrat. Nenapada vas, jak ty lupy otestovat, kdyz to clovek ma jeste rozebrane na koberci? Zjistit problem na strese, neni prave idealni. Nejlepe to zjistit hned u stanku v Holesovicich :-) Jsem rad, ze jste to napsal, to hned cloveka potesi, ze v tom problemu neni sam. :-))) Zdravi Ondrej Tesar PZ> Dobry den PZ> popisu vam situaci co se mi stalo a chtel bych znat Vas nazor. PZ> Stavim dve sady ronji (bude za roh). Delky 300m a 1300m. Zamereni kratke sady PZ> je sranda a slo to jako po dratku. PZ> Zamereni delsi sady: PZ> Jedna strana, najit ohnisko, naladit na odrazku, kolega nasteluje prijimac a PZ> hlasi napeti, jde to perfektne, provozni napeti, utahnout, hotovo za 1/2 PZ> hodiny. PZ> Druha strana postup uplne stejny, vysilac uz na oko zari mene, nedari se najit PZ> signal na RSSI. PZ> Zkusil jsem nekolikrat najit ohnisko, zamerit, porad dokola a nic. Prehodim PZ> moduly, a ted pozor, moduly na to nemaji zadny vliv, prvni smer chodi skvele, PZ> druhy vubec. PZ> Vezmu vysilacove tubusy a ejhle, smer s prvnim tubusem se opet chyta skvele a PZ> rychle, smer s druhym tubusem opet nic. Vytahnu tedy tubus uz z te kratsi PZ> nastelovane ronji a vymenim je. A ejhle uz najdu signal napoprve i PZ> subjektivne okem se zvetsila svitivost. I kdyz neni to uplne presne to co ten PZ> dorby tubus, ale je to vyrazne lepsi. PZ> Z toho mi vyplyva ze ta cocka v tom inkrinovanem tubusu neni moc ok (je PZ> koupena v Clockove Ronja shopu, reklamovat ji nebudu :). I kdyz na vizulani PZ> pohled se mi nic divneho na ni nezda. PZ> Stalo se Vam to nekomu taky? Je to vubec mozne? PZ> PS Kam zmizel Ronja shop? From clock at twibright.com Mon Jul 14 18:40:16 2003 From: clock at twibright.com (Clock) Date: Mon Jul 14 16:40:44 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Mysterious installation Message-ID: <20030714174016.A23924@beton.cybernet.cz> I have got 3.5MB of pictures from Ondrej Tesar with some installation I don't know at all. Dostal jsem 3.5MB obrazku od Ondry Tesare s nejakou zahadnou instalaci Ronji kterou vubec neznam. Could I please ask the author to identify where the piece is running etc.? Mohl bych pozadat autora aby se podival a rekl mi, kde tato Ronja bezi a podobne? http://images.twibright.com/tns/621.html Cl< From vojta at sinus.cz Mon Jul 14 09:55:50 2003 From: vojta at sinus.cz (=?iso-8859-2?q?Vojt=ECch=20Pithart?=) Date: Mon Jul 14 17:49:18 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Photo gallery and more sections In-Reply-To: <20030709212825.D7721@beton.cybernet.cz> References: <20030709020508.A14637@beton.cybernet.cz> <200307091745.31102.vojta@sinus.cz> <20030709212825.D7721@beton.cybernet.cz> Message-ID: <200307140855.50775.vojta@sinus.cz> Pokud je tedy na stavajicim stroji takovato (dobra) situace, vypadalo by to asi takto: Byl by potreba 1 adresar v DocumentRootu, treba 'ronjadb', nebo jine hezke jmeno. Do neho by se nalil index.php + hafo dalsich skriptu. V MySQL serveru bych pro tento ucel zalozil extra databazi a (jen) do ni vyhradit prava pro uzivatele x, heslo y. (x a y bude pak zadratovano v nekterem php skriptu). Je otazka, zda to bude verejne zapisovatelne, nebo to bude moderovat 1 clovek, nebo tam bude mozno vytvaret/rusit uzivatele, kdy kazdy uzivatel pak vlastni n zaznamu v databazi. Implementacne nejjednodussi je open access, stejne jednoducha je i 2. moznost; Registrace uzivatelu apod. je dost slozita. Co Vy na to? Vojta Lhota Dne st 9. ?ervence 2003 21:28 Clock napsal(a): > Dobry den > > Dekuju za nabidku. Jak by takovy PHP / MySQL system vypadal? Bezi to na > stroji kde PHP je a pouzivam ho a MySQL taky, ale nikdy jsem ho > nepouzival. > > Cl< > > On Wed, Jul 09, 2003 at 05:45:31PM +0200, Vojt?ch Pithart wrote: > > Dear clock, > > this is exactly what i am thinking about since near past. The ronja web > > should have simple database, where existing ronja owners could insert > > information like: > > - date(year) of construction, ronja model > > - length of link > > - place where ronja is installed (eg. Name of country/county, or rather > > longitude&latitude) > > - lense diameters > > - used NICs > > - ability to invite new ronja users to get them 'to the roof' and show > > working ronja for them > > - construction specialities > > - additional URL > > > > If you want, i can participate on this project; create MySQL database > > structure and PHP interface integrable into your web. > > > > Vojta Lhota > > > > > I am planning to write a section "Tour" which will tour the > > > user through the history of the project and current installations > > > all over the world. > > > Cl< > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ronja mailing list > > Ronja@lists.pointless.net > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja@lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From clock at twibright.com Sun Jul 13 13:56:36 2003 From: clock at twibright.com (Clock) Date: Mon Jul 14 17:49:21 2003 Subject: [Ronja] 10Mb/s or 100Mb/s, LASER or LED In-Reply-To: <3F0ECBFA.3000904@volja.net>; from ales.travnik@volja.net on Fri, Jul 11, 2003 at 04:38:50PM +0200 References: <3F0ECBFA.3000904@volja.net> Message-ID: <20030713125636.B338@beton.cybernet.cz> ADSL router doesn't have AUI interface, which is default for Ronja. There is some TP interface schematic, but it requires the device to be a PC router or manageable switch so that 10Mbps full duplex can be forced on the interface. I don't know if ADSL router permits this Otherwise 50m is no problem, you can use small lenses, 75mm for example, without problems. Cl< On Fri, Jul 11, 2003 at 04:38:50PM +0200, Ales Travnik wrote: > I'm sorry but my english is not so goot! > > I was desperatly searching for some plans (schemes) for LAER link > and i found Ronja's page. > I was reading from mailing list for an hour and i just learnd something > about your project, so i think you can help me! > > My plans are to build wireless link from my computer to my friend's > computer. > It's like this: > We are 50m apart (and can see each other) > We want the link to be as fast as possible > Not too expensive (I don't know how much do you invest) less than 100$ > And link must work on bright day with powerful sun shining > > I have some expert help just for building all together but i don't have > any plans! > Can link work without computer? (On one side plugged in working computer > on the other side plugged into ADSL router) > Can someone be so nice and answer my message or can someone send plans > (schemes) to my mail! > > Thank you By ales > My mail: ales.travnik@volja.net > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja@lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From clock at twibright.com Sun Jul 13 13:52:24 2003 From: clock at twibright.com (Clock) Date: Mon Jul 14 17:49:21 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Kvalita vietnamskych cocek In-Reply-To: <200307111221.42712.zapadlo@melzer.cz>; from zapadlo@melzer.cz on Fri, Jul 11, 2003 at 12:21:42PM +0200 References: <200307111221.42712.zapadlo@melzer.cz> Message-ID: <20030713125224.A338@beton.cybernet.cz> Nemuze to byt tim, ze jsou oba moduly nejake "slabsi", rekneme treba delane na tistaku nebo tak? Vietnamske cocky maji samozrejme rozptyl. Jste si take jist, ze ten inkriminovany vysilac byl dokonale zaostren? Pak take muze byt, ze to RSSI ukaze v prilis uzke odchylce od opticke osy a nedari se vam proto do toho trefit. Je to divne, protoze v Kecskemetu s temi samymi cockami udelali 1.7km. Pochybuju, ze by mely cocky takovy vyrobni rozptyl, ze by to nekde chodilo na 1.7km a nekde na 1.3km. Cl< On Fri, Jul 11, 2003 at 12:21:42PM +0200, Petr Zapadlo wrote: > Dobry den > > popisu vam situaci co se mi stalo a chtel bych znat Vas nazor. > > Stavim dve sady ronji (bude za roh). Delky 300m a 1300m. Zamereni kratke sady > je sranda a slo to jako po dratku. > Zamereni delsi sady: > Jedna strana, najit ohnisko, naladit na odrazku, kolega nasteluje prijimac a > hlasi napeti, jde to perfektne, provozni napeti, utahnout, hotovo za 1/2 > hodiny. > Druha strana postup uplne stejny, vysilac uz na oko zari mene, nedari se najit > signal na RSSI. > Zkusil jsem nekolikrat najit ohnisko, zamerit, porad dokola a nic. Prehodim > moduly, a ted pozor, moduly na to nemaji zadny vliv, prvni smer chodi skvele, > druhy vubec. > Vezmu vysilacove tubusy a ejhle, smer s prvnim tubusem se opet chyta skvele a > rychle, smer s druhym tubusem opet nic. Vytahnu tedy tubus uz z te kratsi > nastelovane ronji a vymenim je. A ejhle uz najdu signal napoprve i > subjektivne okem se zvetsila svitivost. I kdyz neni to uplne presne to co ten > dorby tubus, ale je to vyrazne lepsi. > > Z toho mi vyplyva ze ta cocka v tom inkrinovanem tubusu neni moc ok (je > koupena v Clockove Ronja shopu, reklamovat ji nebudu :). I kdyz na vizulani > pohled se mi nic divneho na ni nezda. > > > Stalo se Vam to nekomu taky? Je to vubec mozne? > > PS Kam zmizel Ronja shop? > > -- > Petr "Zapik" Zapadlo > > > Ing. Petr Zapadlo > vedouc?? odd??len?? syst??mov?? podpory > Melzer, spol. s r.o. > Doln?? 71, 796 01 Prost??jov > tel: 582 330 301 > fax: 582 330 302 > mailto: zapadlo@melzer.cz > http://www.melzer.cz > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja@lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From boza2 at volny.cz Sun Jul 13 12:33:32 2003 From: boza2 at volny.cz (Ondrej Tesar) Date: Mon Jul 14 17:49:21 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Kvalita vietnamskych cocek In-Reply-To: <200307111221.42712.zapadlo@melzer.cz> References: <200307111221.42712.zapadlo@melzer.cz> Message-ID: <297147466.20030713113332@volny.cz> Zdravim, mam presne tu samou zkusenost. Instaloval jsem v Jicine jeden spoj na 650m. Momentalne nejede, protoze: Obe strany jsme pridelali, cervenym vysilacem jsme nastrelili odrazku na protejsi strane (chce to poradne velkou, jedena trojuhelnickova odrazka fakt nestaci). Vymenili moduly mezi sebou (Rx,Tx) i druhy tubus nastrelili na odrazku. (Prijde mi, ze je lepsi to 2x udelat na odrazku, nez jednou na odrazku a jednou podle V-metru na RSSI). To same na protejsi strane. A svete div se, jela jen pulka spoje. Tak jsme na jedne strane prohodili moduly v tubusech. A zadna zmena. Tak jsme prohodili moduly v tubusech na protejsi strane. A svete div se, jela druha pulka spoje! Tak jsem jim tam tedka posilal novej tubus s dalsi vietnamskou lupou. Tak treba se trefim do dobre lupy tentokrat. Nenapada vas, jak ty lupy otestovat, kdyz to clovek ma jeste rozebrane na koberci? Zjistit problem na strese, neni prave idealni. Nejlepe to zjistit hned u stanku v Holesovicich :-) Jsem rad, ze jste to napsal, to hned cloveka potesi, ze v tom problemu neni sam. :-))) Zdravi Ondrej Tesar PZ> Dobry den PZ> popisu vam situaci co se mi stalo a chtel bych znat Vas nazor. PZ> Stavim dve sady ronji (bude za roh). Delky 300m a 1300m. Zamereni kratke sady PZ> je sranda a slo to jako po dratku. PZ> Zamereni delsi sady: PZ> Jedna strana, najit ohnisko, naladit na odrazku, kolega nasteluje prijimac a PZ> hlasi napeti, jde to perfektne, provozni napeti, utahnout, hotovo za 1/2 PZ> hodiny. PZ> Druha strana postup uplne stejny, vysilac uz na oko zari mene, nedari se najit PZ> signal na RSSI. PZ> Zkusil jsem nekolikrat najit ohnisko, zamerit, porad dokola a nic. Prehodim PZ> moduly, a ted pozor, moduly na to nemaji zadny vliv, prvni smer chodi skvele, PZ> druhy vubec. PZ> Vezmu vysilacove tubusy a ejhle, smer s prvnim tubusem se opet chyta skvele a PZ> rychle, smer s druhym tubusem opet nic. Vytahnu tedy tubus uz z te kratsi PZ> nastelovane ronji a vymenim je. A ejhle uz najdu signal napoprve i PZ> subjektivne okem se zvetsila svitivost. I kdyz neni to uplne presne to co ten PZ> dorby tubus, ale je to vyrazne lepsi. PZ> Z toho mi vyplyva ze ta cocka v tom inkrinovanem tubusu neni moc ok (je PZ> koupena v Clockove Ronja shopu, reklamovat ji nebudu :). I kdyz na vizulani PZ> pohled se mi nic divneho na ni nezda. PZ> Stalo se Vam to nekomu taky? Je to vubec mozne? PZ> PS Kam zmizel Ronja shop? From clock at twibright.com Mon Jul 14 20:36:12 2003 From: clock at twibright.com (Clock) Date: Mon Jul 14 18:36:22 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Kvalita vietnamskych cocek In-Reply-To: <297147466.20030713113332@volny.cz>; from boza2@volny.cz on Sun, Jul 13, 2003 at 11:33:32AM +0200 References: <200307111221.42712.zapadlo@melzer.cz> <297147466.20030713113332@volny.cz> Message-ID: <20030714193612.A591@beton.cybernet.cz> Nemuze to byt spatnym zaostrenim? Podobne (zarucene neresitelne) problemy meli v Kecskemetu a pak se ukazalo, ze pouze nezaostrili poradne vysilac a misto na odrazku v noci to zamerovali podle oka a mobilu ve dne. Pokud je elektronika nejaka nacata (tistaky a podobne) tak se samozrejme muze stat, ze vlivem rozptylu parametru lup jedna pulka jede a druha ne. Cl< On Sun, Jul 13, 2003 at 11:33:32AM +0200, Ondrej Tesar wrote: > Zdravim, > mam presne tu samou zkusenost. > > Instaloval jsem v Jicine jeden spoj na 650m. Momentalne nejede, > protoze: > Obe strany jsme pridelali, cervenym vysilacem jsme nastrelili odrazku > na protejsi strane (chce to poradne velkou, jedena trojuhelnickova > odrazka fakt nestaci). Vymenili moduly mezi sebou (Rx,Tx) i druhy > tubus nastrelili na odrazku. (Prijde mi, ze je lepsi to 2x udelat na > odrazku, nez jednou na odrazku a jednou podle V-metru na RSSI). > To same na protejsi strane. A svete div se, jela jen pulka spoje. Tak > jsme na jedne strane prohodili moduly v tubusech. A zadna zmena. Tak > jsme prohodili moduly v tubusech na protejsi strane. A svete div se, > jela druha pulka spoje! Tak jsem jim tam tedka posilal novej tubus s > dalsi vietnamskou lupou. Tak treba se trefim do dobre lupy tentokrat. > > Nenapada vas, jak ty lupy otestovat, kdyz to clovek ma jeste > rozebrane na koberci? Zjistit problem na strese, neni prave > idealni. Nejlepe to zjistit hned u stanku v Holesovicich :-) > > Jsem rad, ze jste to napsal, to hned cloveka potesi, ze v tom problemu > neni sam. :-))) > > Zdravi Ondrej Tesar > > PZ> Dobry den > > PZ> popisu vam situaci co se mi stalo a chtel bych znat Vas nazor. > > PZ> Stavim dve sady ronji (bude za roh). Delky 300m a 1300m. Zamereni kratke sady > PZ> je sranda a slo to jako po dratku. > PZ> Zamereni delsi sady: > PZ> Jedna strana, najit ohnisko, naladit na odrazku, kolega nasteluje prijimac a > PZ> hlasi napeti, jde to perfektne, provozni napeti, utahnout, hotovo za 1/2 > PZ> hodiny. > PZ> Druha strana postup uplne stejny, vysilac uz na oko zari mene, nedari se najit > PZ> signal na RSSI. > PZ> Zkusil jsem nekolikrat najit ohnisko, zamerit, porad dokola a nic. Prehodim > PZ> moduly, a ted pozor, moduly na to nemaji zadny vliv, prvni smer chodi skvele, > PZ> druhy vubec. > PZ> Vezmu vysilacove tubusy a ejhle, smer s prvnim tubusem se opet chyta skvele a > PZ> rychle, smer s druhym tubusem opet nic. Vytahnu tedy tubus uz z te kratsi > PZ> nastelovane ronji a vymenim je. A ejhle uz najdu signal napoprve i > PZ> subjektivne okem se zvetsila svitivost. I kdyz neni to uplne presne to co ten > PZ> dorby tubus, ale je to vyrazne lepsi. > > PZ> Z toho mi vyplyva ze ta cocka v tom inkrinovanem tubusu neni moc ok (je > PZ> koupena v Clockove Ronja shopu, reklamovat ji nebudu :). I kdyz na vizulani > PZ> pohled se mi nic divneho na ni nezda. > > > PZ> Stalo se Vam to nekomu taky? Je to vubec mozne? > > PZ> PS Kam zmizel Ronja shop? > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja@lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From fso at fso.wz.cz Tue Jul 15 13:13:16 2003 From: fso at fso.wz.cz (jm) Date: Wed Jul 16 08:38:47 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Kvalita vietnamskych cocek Message-ID: <20030715121310.611.qmail@zeus.webzdarma.cz> Me jedna cinska cocka(modra krabicka) dela na stene -pri prosviceni laserem interferencni krouzky a ta co sem koupil jindy(seda krabicka) dela stejnomerne vyplnenej kruh.Zkuste to s nima jestli se to podle toho pozna. Jirka. From zapadlo at melzer.cz Thu Jul 17 13:50:46 2003 From: zapadlo at melzer.cz (Petr Zapadlo) Date: Thu Jul 17 11:50:53 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Kvalita vietnamskych cocek In-Reply-To: <20030714193612.A591@beton.cybernet.cz> References: <200307111221.42712.zapadlo@melzer.cz> <297147466.20030713113332@volny.cz> <20030714193612.A591@beton.cybernet.cz> Message-ID: <200307171250.46634.zapadlo@melzer.cz> Dne po 14. ?ervence 2003 19:36 Clock napsal(a): > Nemuze to byt spatnym zaostrenim? Podobne (zarucene neresitelne) problemy > meli v Kecskemetu a pak se ukazalo, ze pouze nezaostrili poradne vysilac a > misto na odrazku v noci to zamerovali podle oka a mobilu ve dne. > > Pokud je elektronika nejaka nacata (tistaky a podobne) tak se samozrejme > muze stat, ze vlivem rozptylu parametru lup jedna pulka jede a druha ne. > Domnivam se ze je to opravdu cockama. Postup, ktery jsem absolvoval: (Jeden bod je vys a jeden nize, proto budu oznacovat smery nahoru a dolu) Smer nahoru, zaostrit (cca 50metru na pole), podle mobily od kolegy max signal, dale podle RSSI max napeti. Dobre Smer dolu, zaostrit opet podle mobilu, viditelne slabsi, max RSSI na hranici zachytitelnosti. Takze, vymena modulu. (vysilace i prijimace) Smer nahoru opet dobry, smer dolu opet nepouzitelny. Po cekani na dalsi noc, opet zaostrit a pokus se opakoval. Opet bezvysledne. Zakoupeni 8 odrazek, a cekani opet na noc, zaostreni nasmerovat na odrazky (To neni blbej napad, jsou vyborne videt a jde to tak podstatne lip , proc musim nejprve vyzkouset slepe ulicky :-), ale opet nic. Rikam si su snad uplne blbej. beru jinu tubus, zaostrit nasmerovat na odrazky a ejhle signal je podstatne lepsi nez predtim (i kdyz toho tubusu nahoru nedosahuje, ale je to pouzitelne). Se spatnym tubusem vubec, s jinym tubusem pouzitelne napoprve. Proto se domnivam ze je to cockami. S pozdravem -- Petr "Zapik" Zapadlo Ing. Petr Zapadlo vedouc? odd?len? syst?mov? podpory Melzer, spol. s r.o. Doln? 71, 796 01 Prost?jov tel: 582 330 301 fax: 582 330 302 mailto: zapadlo@melzer.cz http://www.melzer.cz From clock at twibright.com Sat Jul 19 12:55:45 2003 From: clock at twibright.com (Clock) Date: Sat Jul 19 10:55:51 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Kvalita vietnamskych cocek In-Reply-To: <200307171250.46634.zapadlo@melzer.cz>; from zapadlo@melzer.cz on Thu, Jul 17, 2003 at 12:50:46PM +0200 References: <200307111221.42712.zapadlo@melzer.cz> <297147466.20030713113332@volny.cz> <20030714193612.A591@beton.cybernet.cz> <200307171250.46634.zapadlo@melzer.cz> Message-ID: <20030719115545.A317@beton.cybernet.cz> On Thu, Jul 17, 2003 at 12:50:46PM +0200, Petr Zapadlo wrote: > Dne po 14. ??ervence 2003 19:36 Clock napsal(a): > > Nemuze to byt spatnym zaostrenim? Podobne (zarucene neresitelne) problemy > > meli v Kecskemetu a pak se ukazalo, ze pouze nezaostrili poradne vysilac a > > misto na odrazku v noci to zamerovali podle oka a mobilu ve dne. > > > > Pokud je elektronika nejaka nacata (tistaky a podobne) tak se samozrejme > > muze stat, ze vlivem rozptylu parametru lup jedna pulka jede a druha ne. > > > > Domnivam se ze je to opravdu cockama. > Postup, ktery jsem absolvoval: > (Jeden bod je vys a jeden nize, proto budu oznacovat smery nahoru a dolu) > > Smer nahoru, zaostrit (cca 50metru na pole), podle mobily od kolegy max > signal, dale podle RSSI max napeti. Dobre > Smer dolu, zaostrit opet podle mobilu, viditelne slabsi, max RSSI na hranici > zachytitelnosti. > > Takze, vymena modulu. (vysilace i prijimace) Smer nahoru opet dobry, smer dolu > opet nepouzitelny. > > Po cekani na dalsi noc, opet zaostrit a pokus se opakoval. Opet bezvysledne. > > Zakoupeni 8 odrazek, a cekani opet na noc, zaostreni nasmerovat na odrazky > (To neni blbej napad, jsou vyborne videt a jde to tak podstatne lip , proc > musim nejprve vyzkouset slepe ulicky :-), > ale opet nic. Rikam si su snad uplne blbej. beru jinu tubus, zaostrit > nasmerovat na odrazky a ejhle signal je podstatne lepsi nez predtim (i kdyz Zaostrovani na odrazky je dost presna metoda. Musi to byt teda cockama. Chcete poslat nejaky jiny? Cl< From clock at twibright.com Sun Jul 20 00:08:11 2003 From: clock at twibright.com (Clock) Date: Sat Jul 19 22:08:24 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Re: [info@alphawave.cz: Product Annoucement - AlphaWave Crusader TP 10Mbit LED] In-Reply-To: <20030531122121.A23150@Shadow.MicroSystem.hu>; from csvarasdy@Shadow.MicroSystem.hu on Sat, May 31, 2003 at 12:21:21PM +0200 References: <20030531122121.A23150@Shadow.MicroSystem.hu> Message-ID: <20030719230811.A1077@beton.cybernet.src> Vazeny pane Zdenku 'Deu' Jando, Dear Mr. Zdenek 'Deu' Janda, Mimo rozumnou miru pochybnosti mam za to, ze jste vetsimu mnozstvi osob Vasim jmenem a jmenem Alphawave rozeslal nasledujici reklamni material, v kterem prohlasujete (zvyrazneno nize), ze komercni vyrobek Alphawave Crusader je zalozen na technologii projektu Ronja. Beyond reasonable doubt I believe that you, under your name and the name Alphawave, have been widely distributing the following advertisement, in which you affirm (underlined below) that commercial device Alphawave Crusader is based on the Ronja Project. Je-li toto Vase tvrzeni pravdive, vzhledem k licencnim podminkam projektu Ronja Vam timto vznika povinnost uverejnit vyrobni podklady vyrobku Alphawave Crusader pod licenci GPL kompatibilni. Pokud takto neucinite, je na miste, abych se obratil na sveho pravniho poradce ve veci poruseni Zakona o pravu autorskem 121/2000 Sb. Shall this your allegation be true, according to Ronja project licence you are obliged to release source files of Alphawave Crusader device under a licence compatible with GPL. If you are not willing to do so, it is reasonable for me to contact my law consultant in a case of violation of Czech Author Rights Act (121/2000 Col.) Jsem presvedcen, ze Alphawave Crusader pod GPL kompatibilni licenci uvolnen neni a proto Vas timto vyzyvam, abyste se k predmetne zalezitosti neodkladne vyjadril. I am convinced that Alphawave Crusader hasn't been released under a GPL-compatible licence and thus I hereby call upon you to immediately express yourself in this case. S pozdravem, Regards, Karel 'Clock' Kulhavy Developper, Ronja Project, Twibright Laboratories > ----- Forwarded message from "Zdenek Deu Janda, AlphaWave" ----- > > From: "Zdenek \"Deu\" Janda, AlphaWave" > To: [...] > Subject: Product Annoucement - AlphaWave Crusader TP 10Mbit LED > Date: [...] > > Dear Customer, > we're proud to introduce our new freespace optical product - AlphaWave > Crusader TP 10Mbit LED. > > AlphaWave Crusader TP 10Mbit LED comes as a new, plug and play solution for ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > an ISPs and Optical Backbone Networks Builders. We've integrated best of ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > Ronja Technology with latest microelectronics solutions, and produced 10Mbit ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > Full Duplex FreeSpace Optical Link with TP Interface - the best solution for > easy and cost effective integration to existing network infrastructure. > > AlphaWave Crusader TP 10Mbit LED is ideal solution for [...] [...] > Best Regards Zdenek Janda Product Director AlphaWave > > > ----- End forwarded message ----- From klapek at kki.net.pl Sun Jul 20 11:02:27 2003 From: klapek at kki.net.pl (Tomasz Koprowski) Date: Sun Jul 20 09:02:34 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Re: [info@alphawave.cz: Product Annoucement - AlphaWave Crusader TP 10Mbit LED] In-Reply-To: <20030719230811.A1077@beton.cybernet.src> References: <20030531122121.A23150@Shadow.MicroSystem.hu>; from csvarasdy@Shadow.MicroSystem.hu on Sat, May 31, 2003 at 12:21:21PM +0200 Message-ID: <3F1A68B3.24374.D7F33@localhost> Hello, > Beyond reasonable doubt I believe that you, under your name and the name > Alphawave, have been widely distributing the following advertisement, in which > you affirm (underlined below) that commercial device Alphawave Crusader is > based on the Ronja Project. Is 'Crusader' the device build around an integrated TP<->Fiber converter? I've checked the alphawave's website bot found nothing except for the price and very general specs. Regards, Tomek Koprowski From highlander_____ at hotmail.com Sun Jul 20 11:26:40 2003 From: highlander_____ at hotmail.com (Highlander) Date: Sun Jul 20 09:26:07 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Re: [info@alphawave.cz: Product Annoucement -AlphaWave Crusader TP 10Mbit LED] References: <20030531122121.A23150@Shadow.MicroSystem.hu>; from csvarasdy@Shadow.MicroSystem.hu on Sat, May 31, 2003at 12:21:21PM +0200 <3F1A68B3.24374.D7F33@localhost> Message-ID: Price is about 40000CZK http://www.alphawave.cz/catalog.php?categoryid=3 in czech language Highlander.. From: "Tomasz Koprowski" To: "GPL free-space optical datalink" Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2003 10:02 AM Subject: Re: [Ronja] Re: [info@alphawave.cz: Product Annoucement -AlphaWave Crusader TP 10Mbit LED] > Hello, > > > Beyond reasonable doubt I believe that you, under your name and the name > > Alphawave, have been widely distributing the following advertisement, in which > > you affirm (underlined below) that commercial device Alphawave Crusader is > > based on the Ronja Project. > > Is 'Crusader' the device build around an integrated TP<->Fiber > converter? I've checked the alphawave's website bot found > nothing except for the price and very general specs. > > Regards, > Tomek Koprowski > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja@lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > From highlander_____ at hotmail.com Sun Jul 20 13:59:17 2003 From: highlander_____ at hotmail.com (Highlander) Date: Sun Jul 20 11:57:23 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Re: [info@alphawave.cz: Product Annoucement-AlphaWave Crusader TP 10Mbit LED] References: <20030531122121.A23150@Shadow.MicroSystem.hu>; from csvarasdy@Shadow.MicroSystem.hu on Sat, May 31,2003at 12:21:21PM +0200 <3F1A68B3.24374.D7F33@localhost> Message-ID: And it uses ML6652 mediaconverter as TP interface. Highlander. ----- Original Message ----- From: Highlander To: GPL free-space optical datalink Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2003 10:26 AM Subject: Re: [Ronja] Re: [info@alphawave.cz: Product Annoucement-AlphaWave Crusader TP 10Mbit LED] > Price is about 40000CZK > > http://www.alphawave.cz/catalog.php?categoryid=3 > > in czech language > > Highlander.. > > > > From: "Tomasz Koprowski" > To: "GPL free-space optical datalink" > Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2003 10:02 AM > Subject: Re: [Ronja] Re: [info@alphawave.cz: Product Annoucement -AlphaWave > Crusader TP 10Mbit LED] > > > > Hello, > > > > > Beyond reasonable doubt I believe that you, under your name and the name > > > Alphawave, have been widely distributing the following advertisement, in > which > > > you affirm (underlined below) that commercial device Alphawave Crusader > is > > > based on the Ronja Project. > > > > Is 'Crusader' the device build around an integrated TP<->Fiber > > converter? I've checked the alphawave's website bot found > > nothing except for the price and very general specs. > > > > Regards, > > Tomek Koprowski > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ronja mailing list > > Ronja@lists.pointless.net > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja@lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > From clock at twibright.com Mon Jul 21 00:57:50 2003 From: clock at twibright.com (Clock) Date: Sun Jul 20 22:57:52 2003 Subject: [Ronja] [info@alphawave.cz: Re: [info@alphawave.cz: Product Annoucement - AlphaWave Crusader TP 10Mbit LED]] Message-ID: <20030720235750.A348@beton.cybernet.src> Here is the reply from Alphawave Cl< ----- Forwarded message from AlphaWave ----- X-Original-To: clock@beton.cybernet.src Delivered-To: clock@beton.cybernet.src Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 21:38:49 +0200 From: AlphaWave User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.3.1) Gecko/20030527 Debian/1.3.1-2 X-Accept-Language: en To: Clock Subject: Re: [info@alphawave.cz: Product Annoucement - AlphaWave Crusader TP 10Mbit LED] In-Reply-To: <20030719230811.A1077@beton.cybernet.src> Dear Mr. Kulhavy, > >Beyond reasonable doubt I believe that you, under your name and the name >Alphawave, have been widely distributing the following advertisement, in which >you affirm (underlined below) that commercial device Alphawave Crusader is >based on the Ronja Project. > > > You've incorrectly interpreted translation of our press release, we agree that our translator should translate better. Our intent is to say that we've used best of overall experience learned using Ronja Technology, not the Ronja Technology itself. AlphaWave Crusader is not using any single piece of hardware and specification, included in Ronja Technology, which can be easily confirmed by independent technology expert. We've developed Crusader ourselves, from our original ideas and experience, as other manufacturers of FSO did. There is no doubt that our device is very original product, that is protected by our copyright laws. > >Shall this your allegation be true, according to Ronja project licence you are >obliged to release source files of Alphawave Crusader device under a licence >compatible with GPL. If you are not willing to do so, it is reasonable for me >to contact my law consultant in a case of violation of Czech Author Rights Act >(121/2000 Col.) > Meaning of our allegation is true, but was mistakenly interpreted by yourself. AlphaWave Crusader is not using anything from Ronja, and this is the fact that we are ready to prove, even before judgement of law. We're pretty sure that we win on this case right now, by assuming common sense. >I am convinced that Alphawave Crusader hasn't been released under a >GPL-compatible licence and thus I hereby call upon you to immediately express >yourself in this case. > Mr. Clock, we're happy that all misunderstanding was explained, you don't have to worry that the copyright law was violated. Best Regards AlphaWave ----- End forwarded message ----- From zapadlo at melzer.cz Mon Jul 21 14:50:20 2003 From: zapadlo at melzer.cz (Petr Zapadlo) Date: Mon Jul 21 12:50:28 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Kvalita vietnamskych cocek In-Reply-To: <20030719115545.A317@beton.cybernet.cz> References: <200307111221.42712.zapadlo@melzer.cz> <200307171250.46634.zapadlo@melzer.cz> <20030719115545.A317@beton.cybernet.cz> Message-ID: <200307211350.20662.zapadlo@melzer.cz> > > Zaostrovani na odrazky je dost presna metoda. Musi to byt teda cockama. > Chcete poslat nejaky jiny? > Ne, pouziju je na tu kratsi trasu, tam budou 100% chodit. Leda ze by chtel nekdo ode me koupit 8 drzatek k cinskym lupam, prodam je levne :-) S pozdravem -- Petr "Zapik" Zapadlo Ing. Petr Zapadlo vedouc? odd?len? syst?mov? podpory Melzer, spol. s r.o. Doln? 71, 796 01 Prost?jov tel: 582 330 301 fax: 582 330 302 mailto: zapadlo@melzer.cz http://www.melzer.cz From hwsoft at post.cz Mon Jul 21 10:57:56 2003 From: hwsoft at post.cz (Petr Lascak) Date: Tue Jul 22 18:35:30 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Re: [info@alphawave.cz: Product Annoucement-AlphaWaveCrusader TP 10Mbit LED] In-Reply-To: References: <20030531122121.A23150@Shadow.MicroSystem.hu> <3F1B01E1.9000509@rietumuradio.lv> Message-ID: <20030721075756.GA30236@penguin.cz> Highlander pise: > It is manufactured by microlinear. > http://www.microlinear.com/ > > it can do 100Mbit. > 100Mbit vewrsion of crusader is in testing. > > Highlander. And not only Crusader, but also DesSto, GPLed project of 10/100MBit optical free space equipment. It works on desk :), and new optical system is in testig stage. (we use the Newton refractor) Petr hwsoft Lascak ITF FreeNet Liberec http://www.penguin.cz/~hwsoft/dessto/ (not up to date) From sorin_a99 at yahoo.com Wed Jul 23 10:45:02 2003 From: sorin_a99 at yahoo.com (popa-popescu sorin-gabriel) Date: Wed Jul 23 17:45:06 2003 Subject: [Ronja] ---DESSTO opticke pojitko 10/100 MBit-- Message-ID: <20030723164502.23917.qmail@web14004.mail.yahoo.com> i think ideea is very nice with ML6xxx but 2 expensive and hard 2 find these IC's for worldwide people. 100Mbit Hazard could be implemented in this way.(in fact.. i tested some Media converters 100Mbps-FX.. with laserpointers. and results was nice,not for long distance). 10Mbit Hazard AUI interface .it's ok.. tks 2 clock 10Mbit Hazard TP interface ..ok.. tks 2 highlander. 100Mbit Hazard..????..DESSTO??.hmm.. comercial design.. in any Metropolitan Lan ...10Mbits is enough..and 100Mbits isn't necessary for long distances.(1Km,1.4Km) i saw at www.future-active.com hpwt-bd00-f4000.. they sell only in 60 pkg.price per unit .. 2Euro.with all taxes.. but don't sell per unit...:(( Anyway, ronja in both ways (aui&tp) still remain number 1 in free space optical acces with minimal cost implementation. any info about 10Mbit Interpolis????.. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From hwsoft at penguin.cz Wed Jul 23 22:14:13 2003 From: hwsoft at penguin.cz (Petr Lascak) Date: Wed Jul 23 20:14:15 2003 Subject: [Ronja] ---DESSTO opticke pojitko 10/100 MBit-- In-Reply-To: <20030723164502.23917.qmail@web14004.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030723164502.23917.qmail@web14004.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20030723191413.GA11280@penguin.cz> popa-popescu sorin-gabriel wrote: > i think ideea is very nice with ML6xxx but 2 expensive > and hard 2 find these IC's for worldwide people. Why, I mean, around the world is possible buy it. Ok, it is more expensive in one(two) piece, but it is possible. > 100Mbit Hazard could be implemented in this way.(in > fact.. i tested some Media converters 100Mbps-FX.. > with laserpointers. and results was nice,not for long > distance). Why? Do you have any results? I am very interesed in. > 10Mbit Hazard AUI interface .it's ok.. tks 2 clock > 10Mbit Hazard TP interface ..ok.. tks 2 highlander. > 100Mbit Hazard..????..DESSTO??.hmm.. comercial > design.. DesSto isn't commercial !! It is a GPLed project, but today in this project works only two(three) developers. Ok all the documentation isn't publish now, but in near future (Autumn) i make it. -- Petr Lascak ITF FreeNet Liberec From clock at twibright.com Thu Jul 24 12:28:13 2003 From: clock at twibright.com (Clock) Date: Thu Jul 24 10:28:29 2003 Subject: [Ronja] ---DESSTO opticke pojitko 10/100 MBit-- In-Reply-To: <20030723191413.GA11280@penguin.cz>; from hwsoft@penguin.cz on Wed, Jul 23, 2003 at 09:14:13PM +0200 References: <20030723164502.23917.qmail@web14004.mail.yahoo.com> <20030723191413.GA11280@penguin.cz> Message-ID: <20030724112812.A18954@beton.cybernet.src> > > > 10Mbit Hazard AUI interface .it's ok.. tks 2 clock > > 10Mbit Hazard TP interface ..ok.. tks 2 highlander. > > 100Mbit Hazard..????..DESSTO??.hmm.. comercial > > design.. > > DesSto isn't commercial !! It is a GPLed project, > but today in this project works only two(three) developers. Don't worry, on Ronja there works just a single developper ;-) > Ok all the documentation isn't publish now, but in > near future (Autumn) i make it. > > -- > Petr Lascak > ITF FreeNet Liberec > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja@lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From P.Kral at sh.cvut.cz Thu Jul 24 13:33:46 2003 From: P.Kral at sh.cvut.cz (=?X-UNKNOWN?Q?Pavel_Kr=E1l?=) Date: Thu Jul 24 11:33:53 2003 Subject: [Ronja] About Ronja, Crusader, Dessto and community Message-ID: Hi all, because this list is read internationaly, I write this mail in English, forgive language mistakes, please. There is a big piece of work, made by Clock. His Ronja metropolis work 10mbit full duplex to distance about 1.5km. Clock licenced all under GPL and defacto allow all people worldwide to build cheap and reliable solutions for metropolitan networks. Hovewer, its design is about one year and half old and Clock shown no progres in Ronja design. He maybe concetrate on Snifer and partly (I doubt) on Interpolis projects. We, the community and I feel as its part, improve Ronja by many ways. What I must point out is, that it is because of GPL. Highlander was done cheap TP interface which get off some AUI issues (mainly router needs) in net topology. Petr Seligr aka Mnaga laborate with AUI and improve AUI clock by crystal for outdoor purposes. I and Tomas Simek aka Shimi were done realiable PCBs for Ronja design and today we improve RX. As you can see http://www.ccsi.cz/ronja Last week we improve RX for lower noise and limiter unstability errors and change comparator design. Our test show success loopback test for about 275cm without optics on PCB, all our work will be published shortly. We plan replace Highlander TP interface version by our own, based on CPLD (Xiling) PALs. We have the design but for AUI which is now obsolete. What I guess is that Clock also experiments with better optics mechanics and design. Optomechanics is mailny his area of experience. No other shown progres in this area. Ok it work, it is great but progres of others shown, that it is possible to build 100mbit laser based link as shown lada and his Crusader project and from scrappy informations HWSoft and his Dessto projects. Difference between Ronja and this projects is in more areas. In tech.spec. laser link and 100mbit needs integrated components like media convertor, laser driver, transimpedance amplifier, fastest PIN (I doubt that prebiased BPW can operate on higher frequencies that 50Mhz) Main problem is accessibility and high cost of el.components. Building from discrete components IS possible, but requires more work than get integrated components. Other difference is that Crusader is NOT GPL or GPL based. It is designed by lada from czfree and if it seems that financialy managed by Deu. Deu is czfree.net project father. Hovewer Deu is also merchant and consider as merchant. This is why, Crusader will never by GPL and will be bussiness man project. It is not bad thing, but its is absolutely differend approach. Dessto at other hand seems to be GPL based 100mbit project. It has no published documentation yet. This all is just my opinions. Regards, Pavel From sorin_a99 at yahoo.com Fri Jul 25 14:26:52 2003 From: sorin_a99 at yahoo.com (popa-popescu sorin-gabriel) Date: Fri Jul 25 21:26:56 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Re: re: R---DESSTO opticke pojitko 10/100 MBit-- In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030725202652.56452.qmail@web14002.mail.yahoo.com> ------------------------------------------- so, what should i understand? next Tp Interface is based on hardware&software ? (xilinx,or some PIC's for full duplex highlander.sch) 1. problems in this moment are with autonegotiation at Highlander Tp.In fact, this problem cause some incompatibilities with some switches 10/100 and some 10/100 nic card-ex. intel pro 100.. let's hope that mc3486/7 work fine and these problems not 2 be from these parts. 2. 100Mbits is 2 far for development and.. let's be serious..10Mbits is 2 much for an Lan. beetwin friends. (think at microwave-2-4Mbps..=:) ..) 3. my tp ronja was constructed partialy in my friend's father factory..(up/down--left/right..movements with some discs-i want 2 make some photos from my mechanical construct.i haven't digital camera yet..)so, alignments are more precisely.. fine tunning are under milimeters. i was forced 2 make some special parts mechanical components cause i used laserpointer 2 go 1Km distance.. with good focus.. anlaserpointer at 1km have max 1m dia square at RX.so, 1-2milimeters movements at Tx.--means 1-2 meters at rx over 1Km.:))..belive me.. this problem cause me long night thinking and without sleeping. on 24december 2002 i put on air my TP ronja with hpwt-dh00-g4000 led. and i realized that with this led i can't work fine over 4-500m with 100 dia lens. Next step was laserpointer.. an good choise but dangerous.. in some ways.. (eyes,alignments,more sensitive at rain,haze,fog and snow). 3-4 weeks ago i tested my Tp ronja with OPE5687HP Infrared led 880nm,45mW-100mA,max.1A.. indeed ,results over 1Km with this led at tx and BPV10NF at Rx was good. 8-900mV reception. but, after 1 night tests .. my friends had some disconforts at his eyes.. .. i think infrared is v.good choise but more dangerous for eyes unlike Hpwt leds. 3. AUI was good..was beginning.. but.. in these days.. utp rules any home network..almost any network are constructed on utp base. more easily 2 put hubs or switches instead pc routers. example.. 2 buy an AUI card i have 2 search many nights on net at my local stores ..but.. for utp card. in max 1 hour i have one 4. yes, i tried with 2 Media Converters 100Base-FX from QUBS.they aren't expansive ..60-70 euro/unit. ( ''money vacantion spended'') from some digs on net, i found that my MC's was on 1300nm at tx and for multimode fiber.led based. photodiode respond from 600nm-1450nm with 1300 gain.. so, i tried with 2 laserpointers .. first with 670nm pointer and link integrity test was ok ( i used an digital osciloscope with 100MHz bandwidh). ..don't forget . at FX ..link test pulse have 62.5 MHz .. next, i used an infrared laser 3pin -940nm and work fine. i think, with bpv10nf and RX clock scheme should work. and some modification at RX MEdia converter-maybe an 74ac04 beetwin Rx clock and RX MC. from some pdf's.. BPV10NF have 2.5ns rise time and over 100Mhz bandwidh-should work. 5. i intend 2 use 10BaseT to 10BaseFL Media Converter 2 obtain full duplex. with only RX and TX from clock.. and some small modification -should work.. i hope!!.:))..btw, your ideea with Rx and Tx an PCb sound interesting..;)..if anyone want my help for infrared led comunication..have it. 6. if anyone here think 2 make money from these projects...let's do it.. but comercial designs cause big problems.. authorities,constructions..legal issues. and..and..and.... finaly counts his utility.. network.. cause .. guide clock intend 2 be for all people -that piece - for small networking beetwin friends. P.S really, i want 2 make some photos with my mecanical parts for anyone wants 2 make ronja with laserpointer over 1Km. from my point view, mecanical part should work fine with laserpointer...and i have some ideas at mecanicla parts for they who want 2 move rx and tx with milimeters size. so, see you soon, guys.. ------------------------------------ --- ronja-request@lists.pointless.net wrote: > Send Ronja mailing list submissions to > ronja@lists.pointless.net > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, > visit > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > or, via email, send a message with subject or body > 'help' to > ronja-request@lists.pointless.net > > You can reach the person managing the list at > ronja-owner@lists.pointless.net > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it > is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Ronja digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. ---DESSTO opticke pojitko 10/100 MBit-- > (popa-popescu sorin-gabriel) > 2. Re: ---DESSTO opticke pojitko 10/100 MBit-- > (Petr Lascak) > 3. Re: ---DESSTO opticke pojitko 10/100 MBit-- > (Clock) > 4. About Ronja, Crusader, Dessto and community > (=?X-UNKNOWN?Q?Pavel_Kr=E1l?=) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 09:45:02 -0700 (PDT) > From: popa-popescu sorin-gabriel > > Subject: [Ronja] ---DESSTO opticke pojitko 10/100 > MBit-- > To: ronja@lists.pointless.net > Message-ID: > <20030723164502.23917.qmail@web14004.mail.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > i think ideea is very nice with ML6xxx but 2 > expensive > and hard 2 find these IC's for worldwide people. > 100Mbit Hazard could be implemented in this way.(in > fact.. i tested some Media converters 100Mbps-FX.. > with laserpointers. and results was nice,not for > long > distance). > 10Mbit Hazard AUI interface .it's ok.. tks 2 clock > 10Mbit Hazard TP interface ..ok.. tks 2 highlander. > 100Mbit Hazard..????..DESSTO??.hmm.. comercial > design.. > > in any Metropolitan Lan ...10Mbits is enough..and > 100Mbits isn't necessary for long > distances.(1Km,1.4Km) > i saw at www.future-active.com hpwt-bd00-f4000.. > they > sell only in 60 pkg.price per unit .. 2Euro.with all > taxes.. but don't sell per unit...:(( > > Anyway, ronja in both ways (aui&tp) still remain > number 1 in free space optical acces with minimal > cost implementation. > any info about 10Mbit Interpolis????.. > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site > design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 21:14:13 +0200 > From: Petr Lascak > Subject: Re: [Ronja] ---DESSTO opticke pojitko > 10/100 MBit-- > To: GPL free-space optical datalink > > Message-ID: <20030723191413.GA11280@penguin.cz> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > popa-popescu sorin-gabriel wrote: > > i think ideea is very nice with ML6xxx but 2 > expensive > > and hard 2 find these IC's for worldwide people. > > Why, I mean, around the world is possible buy it. > Ok, it > is more expensive in one(two) piece, but it is > possible. > > > 100Mbit Hazard could be implemented in this > way.(in > > fact.. i tested some Media converters 100Mbps-FX.. > > with laserpointers. and results was nice,not for > long > > distance). > > Why? Do you have any results? I am very interesed > in. > > > 10Mbit Hazard AUI interface .it's ok.. tks 2 clock > > 10Mbit Hazard TP interface ..ok.. tks 2 > highlander. > > 100Mbit Hazard..????..DESSTO??.hmm.. comercial > > design.. > > DesSto isn't commercial !! It is a GPLed project, > but today in this project works only two(three) > developers. > Ok all the documentation isn't publish now, but in > > near future (Autumn) i make it. > > -- > Petr Lascak > ITF FreeNet Liberec > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 11:28:13 +0200 > From: Clock > Subject: Re: [Ronja] ---DESSTO opticke pojitko > 10/100 MBit-- > To: GPL free-space optical datalink > > Message-ID: > <20030724112812.A18954@beton.cybernet.src> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > > > > > 10Mbit Hazard AUI interface .it's ok.. tks 2 > clock > > > 10Mbit Hazard TP interface ..ok.. tks 2 > highlander. > > > 100Mbit Hazard..????..DESSTO??.hmm.. comercial > > > design.. > > > > DesSto isn't commercial !! It is a GPLed > project, > > but today in this project works only two(three) > developers. > > Don't worry, on Ronja there works just a single > developper ;-) > > > Ok all the documentation isn't publish now, but > in > > near future (Autumn) i make it. > > > > -- > > Petr Lascak > > ITF FreeNet Liberec > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ronja mailing list > > Ronja@lists.pointless.net > > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 12:33:46 +0200 (CEST) > From: =?X-UNKNOWN?Q?Pavel_Kr=E1l?= > > Subject: [Ronja] About Ronja, Crusader, Dessto and > community > To: ronja@lists.pointless.net > Message-ID: > > > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > > Hi all, > > because this list is read internationaly, I write > this mail in English, > forgive language mistakes, please. > > There is a big piece of work, made by Clock. His > Ronja metropolis work > 10mbit full duplex to distance about 1.5km. Clock > licenced all under GPL > and defacto allow all people worldwide to build > cheap and reliable > solutions for metropolitan networks. > > === message truncated === __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From clock at twibright.com Sat Jul 26 00:58:11 2003 From: clock at twibright.com (Clock) Date: Fri Jul 25 22:58:19 2003 Subject: [Ronja] About Ronja, Crusader, Dessto and community In-Reply-To: ; from P.Kral@sh.cvut.cz on Thu, Jul 24, 2003 at 12:33:46PM +0200 References: Message-ID: <20030725235811.B236@beton.cybernet.src> On Thu, Jul 24, 2003 at 12:33:46PM +0200, Pavel Kr?l wrote: > Hi all, > > because this list is read internationaly, I write this mail in English, > forgive language mistakes, please. > > There is a big piece of work, made by Clock. His Ronja metropolis work > 10mbit full duplex to distance about 1.5km. Clock licenced all under GPL > and defacto allow all people worldwide to build cheap and reliable > solutions for metropolitan networks. > > Hovewer, its design is about one year and half old and Clock shown no > progres in Ronja design. He maybe concetrate on Snifer and partly (I The holders are just 3/4 year old. There has been done fixes in electronics during the 1.5 years that also increased sensitivity and fixed some issues with crappy blocking capacitors. About 1 year back there was a fix that prevented oscillations in TX (integrated regulator oscillated in it's recommended circuit ;-) ). > doubt) on Interpolis projects. > > We, the community and I feel as its part, improve Ronja by many > ways. What I must point out is, that it is because of GPL. > > Highlander was done cheap TP interface which get off some AUI issues > (mainly router needs) in net topology. I would merge Highlander's TP into the project, but won't do it because a) there is a dual-gate schmitt-less oscillator that I consider unreliable b) there exists a simpler TP electronics designed by someone around Airborne c) Highlander has no clear specification about the transformers Has Highlander published a do-it-so-and-so-step-by-step-and-you-get-a-reliably-running-device guide? I don't know about any :( > > Petr Seligr aka Mnaga laborate with AUI and improve AUI clock by crystal > for outdoor purposes. Why did he do it? Were there problems with running AUI outdoor? If yes, could I please ask for bugreport? > > I and Tomas Simek aka Shimi were done realiable PCBs for Ronja design and > today we improve RX. As you can see > http://www.ccsi.cz/ronja Nice work, but again, before merging into the mainstream of Ronja project, it's necessary to validate the design and prepare the sources for public use. It requires: a) Building the same circuit neatly on airwire and comparing the distance by swapping _just_ the PCB and airwire pieces b) The official methodic for measuring packetloss is ping -c (the old wasenaar ping). ping -f is NOT PERMITTED because reports false packetloss caused by system overload and DOS diagnostic program AFAIk says nothing about packetloss. It is necessary, when comparing distances, do it at same packetloss, say 4%. If the PCB shows the same range as airwire, passed. Rejected otherwise. c) Generate Gerber files and all the other files into a directory so that this directory can be mailed to any PCB manufacturing firm and they know exactly what to do. I have tried to have made some PCB design by someone and have been rejected because the files were not good enough (missing absolute size specifications, bad drillhole diameters etc.) > > Last week we improve RX for lower noise and limiter unstability errors and What does "limitter unstability" mean? > change comparator design. Our test show success loopback test for about > 275cm without optics on PCB, all our work will be published shortly. This is a normal range for old airwire construction (without your patches). > We plan replace Highlander TP interface version by our own, based on > CPLD (Xiling) PALs. We have the design but for AUI which is now obsolete. > > What I guess is that Clock also experiments with better optics mechanics > and design. Optomechanics is mailny his area of experience. No other shown > progres in this area. If you don't count the Universal Holder redesign published Autumn 2002. The old holder was simply wrong. > > Ok it work, it is great but progres of others shown, that it is possible > to build 100mbit laser based link as shown lada and his Crusader project Last report says something about 2m without optics. What range do they have with their optics? > and from scrappy informations HWSoft and his Dessto projects. > > Difference between Ronja and this projects is in more areas. > > In tech.spec. laser link and 100mbit needs integrated components like > media convertor, laser driver, transimpedance amplifier, fastest PIN (I > doubt that prebiased BPW can operate on higher frequencies that 50Mhz) Prebiased BPW can operate on higher frequencies than 50MHz. 100Mbps has 16ns long pulses. Rise (and fall) time of the diode is 4ns, so the first 4ns the diode does the slew and the remaining 12ns goes to have a coffee. SFH203 is the same, just instead of 4ns it has whole 5ns. So has got just 11ns to take holidays. > Main problem is accessibility and high cost of el.components. Building > from discrete components IS possible, but requires more work than get > integrated components. I plan to make Interpolis from discrete components too because the number of components will be only negligibly higher (to stabilize the laser). > Other difference is that Crusader is NOT GPL or GPL based. It is designed > by lada from czfree and if it seems that financialy managed by Deu. Deu is > czfree.net project father. Hovewer Deu is also merchant and consider as > merchant. This is why, Crusader will never by GPL and will be bussiness > man project. It is not bad thing, but its is absolutely differend Deu works on the device with his small team of developpers. On Ronja there works potentially the whole world. Ronja has a chance to be better due to better personal backup. Plus, you never know what's inside and can't validate Deu's reliability claims from open documentation. Just have to believe what he says. I never believe a businessman or a merchant. What the user needs most is reliability. Who doesn't believe will be put in front of a web browser, and in the middle of night winter snowstorm, when the outer temperature is -20 degC, his connection will be cut and he will be given a multimeter, pair of wrenches and told "go and find the cold joint. Or corroded-through joint on PCB. Or oxidized contact. Or maybe it has crept away. If you don't find it, you won't have any email, any icq, any web." When the guy from other side is on winter holidays skiing in Alps, so he can't help him with diagnostics and alignment ;-) Teledataoptics must be rock reliable. Cl< From clock at twibright.com Sat Jul 26 08:33:13 2003 From: clock at twibright.com (Clock) Date: Sat Jul 26 06:33:15 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Re: re: R---DESSTO opticke pojitko 10/100 MBit-- In-Reply-To: <20030725202652.56452.qmail@web14002.mail.yahoo.com>; from sorin_a99@yahoo.com on Fri, Jul 25, 2003 at 01:26:52PM -0700 References: <20030725202652.56452.qmail@web14002.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20030726073313.A31783@beton.cybernet.src> > 2. > 100Mbits is 2 far for development and.. let's be > serious..10Mbits is 2 much for an Lan. beetwin > friends. (think at microwave-2-4Mbps..=:) ..) Yes. 100Mbps has inherent 1.7times shorter distance. > multimode fiber.led based. photodiode respond from > 600nm-1450nm with 1300 gain.. so, i tried with 2 > laserpointers .. first with 670nm pointer and link > integrity test was ok ( i used an digital osciloscope > with 100MHz bandwidh). ..don't forget . at FX ..link > test pulse have 62.5 MHz .. next, i used an infrared > laser 3pin -940nm and work fine. i think, with bpv10nf Be careful, infrared laser is something very dangeroud to eye. Cl< From farkas at szm.sk Sat Jul 26 16:04:56 2003 From: farkas at szm.sk (Richard Farkas) Date: Sat Jul 26 14:10:36 2003 Subject: [Ronja] About Ronja, Crusader, Dessto and community In-Reply-To: <20030725235811.B236@beton.cybernet.src> References: <20030725235811.B236@beton.cybernet.src> Message-ID: <62683825.20030726150456@szm.sk> >> Hovewer, its design is about one year and half old and Clock shown no >> progres in Ronja design. He maybe concetrate on Snifer and partly (I I think that everyone can live his own life and it is not clock's duty to develop Ronja. But it is his project until he says it's not. And clock's project = clock's rules. Now i'm building my first "pure" Ronja and i'll pay my contribution after it. I must say that clock's instructions are easy to understand. Other one's are not. >> Highlander was done cheap TP interface which get off some AUI issues >> (mainly router needs) in net topology. Highlander's work is released in some ancient version of Eagle which i can't find on net. I did't find nothing about AUI issues on his pages. His work is good, but not for the public. >> We, the community and I feel as its part, improve Ronja by many >> ways. What I must point out is, that it is because of GPL. Yes, GPL is nice, but 1200 Czk for PCBs without tax is too much. >> I and Tomas Simek aka Shimi were done realiable PCBs for Ronja design and >> today we improve RX. As you can see >> C> Nice work, but again, before merging into the mainstream of Ronja project, C> it's necessary to validate the design and prepare the sources for public C> use. Yes, as i mentioned before, it is clock's project. But it would be nice to find all links like http://www.ccsi.cz/ronja at one place at Ronja homepage. PS: don't beat me, please. I know my english is terrible -- Richard bofi Farkas mailto:farkas@szm.sk From clock at atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz Sat Jul 26 20:45:18 2003 From: clock at atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Sat Jul 26 18:45:23 2003 Subject: [Ronja] About Ronja, Crusader, Dessto and community In-Reply-To: <62683825.20030726150456@szm.sk>; from farkas@szm.sk on Sat, Jul 26, 2003 at 03:04:56PM +0200 References: <20030725235811.B236@beton.cybernet.src> <62683825.20030726150456@szm.sk> Message-ID: <20030726194518.B2416@beton.cybernet.src> On Sat, Jul 26, 2003 at 03:04:56PM +0200, Richard Farkas wrote: > >> Hovewer, its design is about one year and half old and Clock shown no > >> progres in Ronja design. He maybe concetrate on Snifer and partly (I > > I think that everyone can live his own life and it is not clock's duty to > develop Ronja. But it is his project until he says it's not. And > clock's project = clock's rules. Nicely said, thanks. It's called autocracy. The same principle rulez in Linux kernel or in Links development. People are sometimes unhappy when their patches are not being accepted. Sometimes the developpers do it according to my opinion (rejecting buggy patches that lead to stable kernel), sometimes not (for example not accepting Mikulas Patocka's patches for bugs he had found and explained to me how they work). It's all right -- it's according to their opinion whether I agree or disagree. What must be obvious in GPL projects is that the project is lead according to a conscience of a certain person. If it weren't, it would have no other purpose (when it's done for free). And conscience of a single person is fairly consistent (if he's psychically healthy). The resulting thing will be oriented this or that way, but will be a consistent and justifiable design in any case. People often criticize us on Links mailing list too for not submitting various patches that we consider buggy or unvalidated. There is another Links branch called ELinks that contains much of these patches, is maintained by a guy who AFAIK doesn't do any real programming, just accepts patches done by others. We consider the ELinks very buggy and unstable, but on other hand, brings Lua scripts and various other features (we call it creeping featurism, but it isn't an objective evaluation). > > >> Highlander was done cheap TP interface which get off some AUI issues > >> (mainly router needs) in net topology. > > Highlander's work is released in some ancient version of Eagle which i > can't find on net. I did't find nothing about AUI issues on his pages. > His work is good, but not for the public. This is a problem. Eagle, Formica, Orcad etc. they are like Microsoft Word. Proprietary formats. It's necessary to convert the PCB's (in long-time horizon) into PCB format ( http://bach.ece.jhu.edu/~haceaton/pcb/ ). PCB is a freely available GPL program for drawing PCB's and is distributed as sources too (with clear instruction how to compile them). Maybe there will be problems with PCB program, I couldn't yet determine how to export the work into a format suitable for manufacture. If it won't know, it will be necessary to do a bit of programming and write it there (no problem, I know C well too, I have been working on the Links project too :) ). I have also been adding things to gschem during my work on Ronja (a lot of symbols + 3200x2400 export option for saving PNG's). After solving these doubts, the PCB sources will be portable and everyone will be able to edit them (now just the Eagle users or Orcad users or Formica users are able to do it, depending on what format the particular boards are in). Currently the Ronja schematic sources are in gschem .sch format. There is some limited support for making PCB directly from schematic so if it worked, it would be nice. Now people click-by-click transfer the schematic into their editor (Orcad, Eagle, Formica...) and then do the ratnest and route the wires. > >> We, the community and I feel as its part, improve Ronja by many > >> ways. What I must point out is, that it is because of GPL. > > Yes, GPL is nice, but 1200 Czk for PCBs without tax is too much. What is key material here is gerber files and all the layers prepared for manufacture. So then you can email it to your favourite firm and they snailmail you the boards back ;-) > > >> I and Tomas Simek aka Shimi were done realiable PCBs for Ronja design and > >> today we improve RX. As you can see > >> > C> Nice work, but again, before merging into the mainstream of Ronja project, > C> it's necessary to validate the design and prepare the sources for public > C> use. > > Yes, as i mentioned before, it is clock's project. But it would be > nice to find all links like http://www.ccsi.cz/ronja at one place at > Ronja homepage. I have already added this to Ronja Links: http://ronja.twibright.com/web.php It's under the "Ronja builders' pages" headline. Cl< > > PS: don't beat me, please. I know my english is terrible > -- > Richard bofi Farkas mailto:farkas@szm.sk > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ronja mailing list > Ronja@lists.pointless.net > http://pointless.net/mailman/listinfo/ronja From clock at twibright.com Sun Jul 27 11:53:02 2003 From: clock at twibright.com (Clock) Date: Sun Jul 27 09:53:16 2003 Subject: [Ronja] ---DESSTO opticke pojitko 10/100 MBit-- In-Reply-To: <20030723164502.23917.qmail@web14004.mail.yahoo.com>; from sorin_a99@yahoo.com on Wed, Jul 23, 2003 at 09:45:02AM -0700 References: <20030723164502.23917.qmail@web14004.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20030727105302.B481@beton.cybernet.src> > in any Metropolitan Lan ...10Mbits is enough..and > 100Mbits isn't necessary for long > distances.(1Km,1.4Km) > i saw at www.future-active.com hpwt-bd00-f4000.. they > sell only in 60 pkg.price per unit .. 2Euro.with all > taxes.. but don't sell per unit...:(( > > Anyway, ronja in both ways (aui&tp) still remain > number 1 in free space optical acces with minimal > cost implementation. > any info about 10Mbit Interpolis????.. I have a high-quality with very big aperture beam expander design tested up which is the key component for eyesafe and performant laser transmitter. It wait is que for implementation (now I know for sure a cost-effective implementation is easily possible). Cl< From clock at atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz Sun Jul 27 12:06:59 2003 From: clock at atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz (Karel Kulhavy) Date: Sun Jul 27 10:07:04 2003 Subject: [Ronja] [herman@antioch-college.edu: Re: BLIND.....Re: [Laser] medium power IR diode] Message-ID: <20030727110659.D481@beton.cybernet.src> ----- Forwarded message from John Schnurer ----- X-Original-To: clock@localhost Delivered-To: clock@localhost.cybernet.src Delivered-To: clock@atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz Delivered-To: laser@mailman.qth.net From: John Schnurer To: "Andrew T. Flowers, K0SM" Cc: laser@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: BLIND.....Re: [Laser] medium power IR diode In-Reply-To: <3F1F0F68.7010104@alltel.net> Errors-To: laser-admin@mailman.qth.net X-BeenThere: laser@mailman.qth.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: laser@mailman.qth.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: == Free Space LASER Communications == List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 19:17:56 -0400 (EDT) Dear Andrew, I mention this because of an incident, I will not mention the facility. In any event this was an IR system and one of the Optical Design Professionals.... we will just use ODP .... was lining up the optical train. The system was not SUPPOSED to be on. It was a couple of hours later when the ODP noticed a ding in their vision. As this did not go away he finally went to the doc.... and after a couple of hours sweating ... he got the news.... Permanent ding. Some time later EVERYONE who might have EVER been able to do ANY hands on work with lasers or any part of the systems, emitters, detectors, optical... We all took Federal Laser Safety training course. This was a very good thing, but too late for the ODP. After... months after ... i thought it would be OK to talk to him about it. He said he felt "kind of stupid" ....but that he would like to do anything to have it not happen, and since that was not an option.... he said he would like to make sure that it never happened to ANYONE else.... if he could help it. SO: Some of the device protection method I came up with: 1] Simple cut-off, fails in the OFF mode. 2] Detector system... if the detector sees ANY of the radiation, then OFF..... and locks out until re set intentionally .... again... lock out-fail in OFF. 3] Emitter tied to laser that points in same general or exact direction .... and this is a "safe emitter" ...maybe visible and visible with IR at low level..... When you decide to "turn it on" ... the Safe Emitter comes on.... then MAYBE you can see if you are going to kazchang someone's eye.... and then AFTER you have checked... you over-ride the over-ride. Let me know if you want some help with people design. 4] One general addition is a sensitive passive IR detector... that is overlapping and aimed at any place person would be .... (A) The system goes off if ANY of the elements to be listed below triggers: IR from source, from sensitive passive IR detector, from safe emitter..... (B) And these feed to FAST cut-off ......positive feedback IGBT hold-off/turn off. (C) laser power on activates 3 (THREE!!!) stages of audio and visual pilot lights and AND and sound.... you have to do some checks before you can "light up the laser" let me know if I can help. JH On Wed, 23 Jul 2003, Andrew T. Flowers, K0SM wrote: > John, > > Not to worry, I'm fully aware of the danger of such a beast. Quite > honestly, I don't want to be using this fully collimated into a tiny > beam at 100mw. It should be possible to operate this a little above Ith > to get something in the 40-50mw range (still, not a toy). Also, I think > I would want some sort of beam expander to reduce the power density in > the near field, just in case. > > Andy > > John Schnurer wrote: > > > > > Dear AT., > > > > I will try to write some more on the topic, but at 50 mw IR lasers > >are not toys.... at 100 mw plus, you can do permanent damage to your eyes > >VERY easily by accidental specular incidence on a wide range of > >surfaces... > > This can REALLY ding your eyes and the eyes of OTHERS in 100 > >milliseconds and less. > > > > We all might do well to help design a "safe-switch" that > >interrupts power under a number of overlapping conditions. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Laser mailing list > Laser@mailman.qth.net > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/laser > _______________________________________________ Laser mailing list Laser@mailman.qth.net http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/laser ----- End forwarded message ----- From clock at twibright.com Sun Jul 27 15:25:41 2003 From: clock at twibright.com (Clock) Date: Sun Jul 27 13:25:52 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Tell about your installations Message-ID: <20030727142541.A3606@beton.cybernet.src> Hello I am writing a page about Ronja installations. I would like to kindly ask everyone who is not listed here: http://ronja.twibright.com/tour/tour5.php and doesn't dislike the idea of his installation to be listed, to tell the parameters of his installation. Thanks Cl< From clock at twibright.com Mon Jul 28 20:40:30 2003 From: clock at twibright.com (Clock) Date: Mon Jul 28 18:40:53 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Re: Ronja na kratkou vzdalenost In-Reply-To: <004b01c35522$05c918a0$0201a8c0@hal>; from martin.stachon@tiscali.cz on Mon, Jul 28, 2003 at 05:28:31PM +0200 References: <004b01c35522$05c918a0$0201a8c0@hal> Message-ID: <20030728194030.B1095@beton.cybernet.src> On Mon, Jul 28, 2003 at 05:28:31PM +0200, Martin Stachon wrote: > Dobry den, > Ronja me hodne zaujala, chtel bych si neco podobneho postavit, > ale konstrukce (jak mechanicka tak elektronicka) je na me moc > slozita. Chtel bych to pouzit na vzdalenost tak do 100m, a ani > 10 Mbps neni nutne. Na internetu jsem nasel navod na IrDA spojeni > od Ladi, ale ty schemata tam jsou neodzkousene. V Ronja galerii > jsem videl nejake fotky a schemata stare Ronji (Loopipe), mozna > bych mohl zkusit ji. Je o tolik jednodussi aby se to vyplatilo? Je to stejne slozite a je to mnohem tezsi rozchodit nez Metropolis. > Jsou nekde schemata? Dekuji. Nejsou, zrusil jsem to. > > P.S. Pri budovani site ve meste je casto potreba propojit bloky > domu na kratkou vzdalenost, mozna by mohla byt pro tento ucel > vytvorena specialni "Ronja Interblock" No udelejte normalni Metropolis na 500 metru nebo jeste na min (treba s 75mm cockama). Tim ty hlavice budou mensi. Jinak elektronika musi zustat stejna. Pokavad by se do toho delaly nejake radikalni rezy typu snizeni poctu soucastek na ukor kvality tak by se vyrojilo spousta chyb, ktere by se dlouho odladovaly a uzivatele by otravovaly. Myslim ze je lepsi to udelat poradne. Nez nejakej smejd to je lepsi mit poradne pojitko s dosahem 500m na 100-metrove trase. Pak budete mit zaruku ze to bude chodit i v silne mlze. My tu mame 70m trasu a na nem pojitko s dosahem 380m ale protoze bracha setril na mechanice, silha to a nejde to zamerit. Takze to tak tak funguje i na tak extremne kratkou vzdalenost! > > P.S#2 Mohl by si uvest u "Testing Ronja" ze prepnuti do AUI/FD > se da udelat pomoci > > ethtool -s eth0 duplex full speed 10 port aui To je super! Diky :) Funguje to na vsechny typy sitovek? Cl< > > S pozdravy, > Martin Stachon > > martin.stachon (at) tiscali.cz > http://www.webpark.cz/stachon From clock at twibright.com Thu Jul 31 16:09:52 2003 From: clock at twibright.com (Clock) Date: Thu Jul 31 14:09:54 2003 Subject: [Ronja] Tour of History and Installations Message-ID: <20030731150952.A2251@beton.cybernet.src> Hello all folks I have added Tour of History and Installations of Ronja to the Ronja homepage. Click on the horse and enjoy :) There is a big table with all 21 known installations, their parameters, pictures etc. Cl<